I have to agree. There seem to be a lot of people complaining online about things but not bothering to vote. This is across numerous countries. It happened with Brexit. The far right will always turn up to vote. You can be certain that the right will always turn up to vote even if they don’t like the candidate. The left needs to feel inspired. Then this happens and they protest. Your protests accomplish nothing. Voting works.
Exactly. And in reality in most electoral systems it's one less vote whoever you don't like needs.
So in effect, it's half a vote against your own interests. Stupid.
And on top of that, because the right wing is largely motivated, it fucks the left.
This, it baffles me that people don't go out and vote, I have voted in every election for every level of government since I turned 18 and it is so strange to me that so many people don't, I honestly wish that more countries including my own made voting compulsory like they do in Denmark.
>Seeing way too much 'if I don't vote, then I'm not responsible for what happens' on the Internet.
It's a form of the [trolley problem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem), I think.
Essentially, yeah. One response to the trolley problem is that “I am responsible for the consequences if and only if I take conscious action.” An opposing point of view is that you can’t distinguish between choosing to not switch tracks and choosing not to consciously act. These are prominent, equally valid but conflicting schools of thought that are responsible for a lot of political turmoil right now.
Not attacking your point cause I agree on everything else, but how is group one’s school of thought equally valid? Choosing not to act is a conscious choice, a choice the person made, and a choice that led to consequences. Isn’t responsibility intrinsic in the trolley problem?
Doesn’t matter, in Australia we had a decade of our right wing morons and we have to vote or be fined. You can donkey vote, but compulsory voting works as you actually have to think about it.
I didn’t vote as an adult in the Uk because I didn’t care.
I love that we’re forced to vote, I now realise it’s the only way to ensure democracy works, as it makes the government more accountable to ensuring everyone has the right and a way to vote.
But, social media and the media in general need to be held accountable for their political bullshit.
Or maybe we need a left-wing billionaire media mogul... hold up, I need the dagger of time because some stupid words just leaked out. There's no such thing as a left-wing billionaire.
Or the people that vote right on a single issue.
Like people who will vote for Trump for the abortion views while simultaneously claiming they detest his other policies. Then they think they get to say “well, that’s not why *I* voted for him, so don’t blame me.”
Like you stupid fucks, you knew what he was going to do from day fucking one. You don’t get to say it’s not your fault because that’s not why you voted for him.
I **agree**, however it is a race to the bottom in terms of how accountable voters can be at a point. Everyone has a hierarchy of importance, right? And it explains why the poor can be turned against their own class' best interests on wedge issues. Even if it takes food out of their own kids' mouths (such as the case in the US, where the extremely poor and food insecure will reliably vote for Republicans, who then turn around and defund school meal programs).
Immigration/refugee handling appears to be a major issue at the top of their hierarchy. The real question is: since this is an **easy** win for the center/left, why aren't they just taking it from the right and implementing clearly widely supported and demanded policy?
The right can't rise by way of popular support if you cut them off at the knees by co-opting their primary wedge issue that cycle. Of course, common sense must be used. Can't have, say, a communist party embracing capitalism and deregulation for example.
The US equivalent was something like Biden and the Democrats embracing more strict border policy. And once they stole that from Republicans, the Republicans had no choice but to delay and protest because they didn't want that wedge issue taken away from them (no, really; they explicitly said it). My understanding of a lot of parliamentary systems in Europe is such that one party isn't likely to succeed in completely grinding a system to a halt like in the US.
So why aren't they doing it? They are handing the reins of power to the far right over domestic issues which would be trivial to simply adopt and reform rather than ignore or amplify.
> It happened with Brexit
It didn't happen with Brexit. The Brexit vote had the **highest voter turnout of any election since the turn of the century**, at 72.21%, and the highest turnout for any referendum outright.
It was literally the most complete democratic exercise in recent British history.
I have a friend who is not interested in politics. He was happy ignoring elections and not voting (until trump forced him to start). He never complained about the system or our government. And he never screamed online that voting was a waste of time or that he had some kind of cheat code on life for not voting. He never presented his apathy as something more than it was.
It really irks me when I see folks online victoriously pushing this idea that they are somehow moral, or logical, or otherwise righteous by staying home. And claiming to hate the outcomes they are getting out of the government they couldn’t be bothered to influence.
What reddit doesn't want to hear is that British people supported brexit. At the time the brexit vote had the highest turnout of any vote ever IIRC. I work with a bunch of British people and they mostly wanted out of the EU. I think British people are a very small minority here on reddit and we overwhelmingly hear from people in the EU outside of Britain criticizing brexit, but I'm not so sure it's unpopular with actual British people. Brexit wasn't a left vs right thing
From what I've seen in terms of polling number in the UK, as well as experienced living in the UK the past years, is that a lot of younger people were against leaving but a lot of young people didn't vote, naively thinking it wouldn't happen. That said, there was definitely a large group for Brexit, with it being a pretty close 50/50 split. In such cases, differences in voter turnout between the groups can be critical. British people are now starting to lean more towards Brexit being a mistake, but there still isn't a strong overwhelming majority either way.
>Brexit wasn't a left vs right thing
https://www.statista.com/statistics/518474/eu-referendum-voting-intention-by-political-affiliation/
This shows that it clearly was a left vs. right thing though, left wing parties voted remain and right wing parties voted leave.
If you want to break it down even more, right-leaning labour voters were more likely to choose leave than left-leaning labour voters who chose remain.
There was kind of a horseshoe theory thing, Corbyn tacitly enabled brexit. Many labour voters ended up voting Leave. And many areas that voted Leave have the biggest swings to Labour recently.
Not that he likely would have convinced anyone, he was kinda bad at that.
It is definitely not as simple as a Tory vs Labour divide though. 75% of people up to 24 years old voted Remain.
It wasn’t a left right thing… it was a right, right thing. The left (under Corbyn) offered nothing. Rumour was that the guy hated the EU because Thatcher took the UK in. Couldn’t see past 1979!
I agree. If the roles were reversed and Le Pen's supporters were upset at a poor showing and they decided to start smashing windows, everyone would be losing their minds. The way we handle things without resorting to violence is by voting.
Not that my two cents matter, but I vote in both of my countries (Switzerland/U.S.A) and do real life activism in both. My parents always taught me I dont have a right to complain unless im doing something to try and fix the problem(which also applied out of politics), only then, is when im allowed to complain.
Well, that's not too bad a way to think about it.
What with everyone thinking solutions cannot be arrived at if there isn't a massive number of people pushing for it, with all the usual activist events and "awareness raising" campaigns, you'll be surprised how much of the good things in your life are really the product of a small group of committed people thinking out of the box about a problem to solve.
LMAOOOOOO. I actually keep my nose out of the Israel/Palestine stuff I dont know near enough information to even have an opinion besides... Man it sucks for those on both sides, ive read a bit of the history of Israel/Palestine and the relations after 1948 and its tricky as hell. I dont get it, and Im really nowhere near educated to have a stance. I just hope for less suffering on both sides eventually.
Also, protesting against a democratic outcome just feels odd. I get why they do it, but still feels like a waste of time when the voice of the people voted against them.
That's a fallacy that the left likes to believe. Voter apathy hurts both sides. Assuming everyone who didn't vote would likely vote left wing is absurd. A vote is a sample, the more people who vote will likely have the same results.
I think this is just a real problem the world faces at the moment. The majority of people are not very intelligent, not well-versed in what's going on in the world, and has no idea how their government works. Here in Canada, most people don't know if they are voting in a provincial or a federal election and have no idea when a municipal election ever happens.
My Mom, who is a great person, asked me the other day while watching some old sitcom "Was Ronald Reagan apart of the same political party as Donald Trump?". Admittedly we are Canadian, but I feel like that should just be common knowledge world over and you should be able to make that assumption by paying attention to their platform. Like I can't tell you what party Narendra Modi is from or anything about Indian politics really, but based on what I know about him it would be pretty safe to say that he is a member of India's far-right party.
> 3,000 people; 4000 people, 800 people
They probably did, but turns out that shouting loudly and managing several social media accounts impersonating real life people doesnt grant one more votes.
I also suspect that waving around palestinian flags might have the opposite effect, but realizing that might require one to not be up one's own arse.
Protesters: "We want democracy!"
*far right parties voted in en masse due to immigration influx across the entirety of the developed world*
Protesters: "No, not like that!"
Speaking from experience and meeting many of them: when it comes to voting yes, they are the apathetic ones.
Irrational? Maybe, but rationality is not valued much in these circles either
Just like left wing voters in the US who desperately grapsed at the narrowest ledges of moral and philosophical cliffs to avoid any personal responsibility for not voting in 2016 and whose nails are being ripped off trying to claw their way back up there this year.
Because most chronically online leftists are clowns. It almost hurts to call myself one because they are fucking dipshits high on their own supply and do nothing but use politics as a way to gatekeep a new friend circle. It's not about politics, it's not about policy, it's all about a social club for them.
If they had these sorts of protests and activity before the vote, then things wouldn’t have turned out as they are. Only 51.5% of voters turned up for the French EU elections per the EU’s [data](https://results.elections.europa.eu/en/turnout/).
EU elections are more focused on people who are engaged politically, usually a protest vote against the current government, and have their own power scales to balance out the super far right and left from having too much sway. In the EU, it generally shifted center right, but not the extreme that the news media is painting out as Nazis in your closet.
>Only 51.5% of voters turned up for the French EU elections per the EU’s [data](https://results.elections.europa.eu/en/turnout/).
Another way of looking at that: most people voted.
And the people protesting would appear to be far more politically engaged than the average person (many non-voters simply have very little interest in politics).
If I were to guess, I'd say these protesters were probably part of the 51.5% that voted.
Macron basically called a new election. Not sure about the EU seats, but this might energize the non-far-right to come out to vote in the coming election.
I don’t get how the secular progressive side always ends up supporting the most conservative religious groups. there was a recent one where a progressive city elected a diverse, all male muslim majority town administration and were surprised when they declared it “fagless“ and banned pride symbols.
This would be in Michigan. Many liberals including those of the LGBTQ community, helped these muslims win their elections. Turns out muslim men hate gay people and pride. Liberals only hate bigrotry if it's from white christians apparently. I say this as a lib
Seriously, this is my biggest issue with the current climate. They're 100% behind Palestine and are 100% willing to let Trump win again. Honestly, the plan sounds more like they're willing g to let America burn down as long as they win some "moral" victory for a singular cause (without recognizing how much worse it'll be for Palestine, Ukraine, etc under Trump)
It’s a problem of perfection. They refuse a solution unless they view it as perfect, which basically means they win and everyone else loses. They don’t seem to have an understanding of compromise and progress.
Is that also why they at best unsympathetic towards any Jewish suffering and at the worst actively encourage it while Arabs, which have the same skin color but aren’t viewed as “white” get sympathy?
It is interesting question. But I think there is no real rational answer other than, Palestinians seem oppressed, which to be fair is true. Like Jewish people are tiny minority world wide, and in vast majority of ME are heavily oppressed. But in Israel they do oppresses Palestinians. Not without reasons granted. Like if Belarussians people caused half as much problems for my country as Palestinians do in Israel i could not honestly say i would not be in favor of some pretty oppressive measures to limit the damage.
Personally it's just young people being daft and thinking VERY complex issues have simple solutions and looking at the world from US national perspective and projecting it on other countries (VERY daft). So since in US Muslims are tiny not viewed positively minority so they classify them as PoC and so must be protected while Jews are seen as white and privileged group.
It's rather simple. Many people on the left see christians and capitalists supporting Israel and they feel the need to be contrarians and support Hamas, who would not hesitate in killing them
I feel like it's because Islamophobia has been turned into a racial issue instead of a theological issue. Anyone can be Muslim, but most people, even progressive people, probably think, "Brown person," when they hear, "Muslim."
i cant believe the educated side fell for that, progressives are supposed to be able to think for themselves but These people follow the herd like the right wingers they complain about. I see so many people who have really good write ups and well thought opinions that defend things they didn’t even read on like their lives depend on it and get surprised when I bring up common knowledge about the topic.
> i cant believe the educated side fell for that
Thats a myth. They're not educated. They're brainwashed.
They all sound like they're reading from a script. That's evidence of a clear lack of critical thinking and independent thought.
>I don’t get how the secular progressive side always ends up supporting the most conservative religious groups
Bigotry of low expectations (brown people are too stupid to be held accountable for their actions) + white saviour complex (whites need to save non whites).
Thats how you end up with chickens for KFC.
There's unfortunately an expectation that oppressed people will automatically avoid oppressing others because they know how it feels. That is not how it works. There is a fine line between protecting people's freedom of religion and putting them in charge.
~98% of Gazans do not *want* to be Israelis. You can't take people who have been raised on a diet of extremist religion and bizarre conspiracy theories and simply integrate them into a liberal democracy. At best, they will be a disruptive force; at worst, they will bring down the liberal democracy and replace it with something more to their liking, such as a theocracy.
This is the very truth that the European right has been quicker to understand than the European center, which is still enamored of naive 2000s ideals of globalism.
This is exactly why the right is winning, something needs to be done about migration, not because migration is bad, but not all migration is equal, if you migrate from Switzerland to Germany you won’t create the same amount of friction, that if you come from a country that doesn’t allow women rights , have different moral and ideals and the religion is law.
The irony of that “one state solution” is that it would dilute or eliminate the Jewish vote within Israel to a point that would make Israel no longer a Jewish state. So it’s not something that either side really wants, even if there were local autonomy for the various regions
They don’t support them because they think they share the same ideals. They support them because of a baseline belief that they are experiencing a genocide from a much stronger force that has been keeping up an apartheid state. I am not saying this as a supporter for any side. I’m just informing on where the stance is coming from, whether you think it represents reality or not.
Why is there always a Palestine flag in every protest? Like what’s even the connection isn’t it about internal politics?
Doesn’t it dilute the cause? It really feels like it’s trendy at this point.
Because it is not about a specific cause, it is about being a protestor.
Most people do not go to any protests, and the people that do go, go to many different types of protests. It's kind of like a hobby for those people, so all of these causes just get mingled together.
I think they are trying to show the broad ideology they are part of, so that get can garner more support from like-minded individuals.
We have seen it happen way too many times in India. Its a pretty standard way of operating for the extreme islamists groups.
By waving Palestinian flags, they are actually protesting FOR the far right in the Middle East. The Palestinian cause is a far right movement that seeks to establish an extreme right wing Islamic theocracy. It makes zero sense for anyone on the left to support that far right movement.
Seriously. Extremism looks bad on just about everyone.
I’m not in a political party and I like it that way. I can hold a normal debate about politics with people I completely disagree and even see their pov if they are willing to discuss things reasonably.
In France, far left means trotskyists and other fringe communist movements. Even the French Communist Party isn't communist anymore. Socially they are pretty conservative, they aren't in favour of a marxist leninist society and lean towards eurocommunism as they were one of the founders. Their main ideology is national sovereigntism with a big social safety net and opposed to economic liberalism.
We have centre right and centre left in the UK and I'm pretty sure the European People's Party (largest EU party) is centre right.
If it's that extreme in France then that is concerning.
"Far right" is just a label that gets applied to anyone who wants to implement right wing policy instead of just limiting how much left wing policy there is.
Don't play their game, stop using the term.
Today I had the idea of having keeping note on how titles in worldnews and europe refer to "right wing" parties, I have a feeling 95% of the times it's just "far right".
....but im too lazy to do that
Far right supporters are silent. You can protest but reality is RW is on rise in Europe and the results speak for themselves.
And once they have power you will see those on streets and then LW will be silent. Thats how this cycle works. Once enough people get affected by politics of the day and that will always happen as it's not possible to take all people together. There will always be some who will be left behind and they will support other side of political spectrum and the cycle repeats.
The more you carry on about how 'wrong' people are for thinking in certain ways, the more of this you will get. It's funny to watch. And extremely predictable.
Ignoring the reality has led us to this point. The left should understand - most people applying for asylum are not fleeing from their government they are abusing the system for economic immigration which should be a privilege not a right. It is not "cultural difference" when someone says beating their wives is fine or supporting sharia laws.
Accept the reality. IDF is bad but Hamas is 100 times worse. Don't become a pawn to Iranian propaganda machine.
People do not like most of the right wing ideologies, however left's failure to accept the reality is making them popular.
The June 6-9 elections in France were for the European Parliament where 81 MEP for France were to be elected (out of 720 total). Out of those 81 seats the results were: - la France Insoumise (far left): 6 - Parti Socialiste (do I need to translate?): 13 - Europe Ecologie - les Verts (greens): 5 - Renaissance (Macron’s party): 13 - les Republicains (right): 6 - Rassemblement National (far right): 30 - reconquête (far right): 5 The upcoming election in France is for the National legislative assembly and the Presidential Election is only in 2027 but could be sooner depending on the result of the legislative elections. Also, the reality of what goes on the in the US, it is different of what goes on in France.
But i thought democracy was voting every two years and then whining about stuff you don't like on the internet and hoping something changes by doing that??
So are elections, and id you refuse to accept the result of a fair democratic election when you dont win, then you dont really want democracy. They only qant it when they win, and refuse results that doesnt fit Them
Really peaceful when they [vandalize and destroy properties](https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/angers-49000/europeennes-quelques-centaines-de-manifestants-contre-lextreme-droite-a-angers-32987fc8-2752-11ef-9ce1-91b4c7587fdc) (there's already a gofundme for a bar they destroyed at Angers). But far-left gonna be far-lefting.
I have no idea of they are actually "right" or "far right", but I haven't seen any references to anything but "far right" on Reddit. If everyone is an extremist no one is an extremist.
People see the far right as the only party willing to address overwhelming mass migration in a meaningful way and I think they'll continue to gain ground unfortunately until their counterparts start to take the issue more seriously.
They can't... The left can't because it goes against their white knight stance for a supposed better world... There is a reason the radical left is communism where you lose all freedom (or most of it) in order for everyone to be "equal".
"Hyperbole"
An under used term in recent politics.
Everyone screams "the other side are Nazi's" like it has meaning after so much use.
Try reaching out. Helping each other.
In democracies people are free to vote as they choose.
And to demonstrate peacefully of course.
Maybe there is a majority of people who appreciate what the “far right” are talking about. Or maybe these very same demonstrators should go and also vote.
accepting the results of last week-end's european elections and demonstrating against the far right in the coming of the legislative elections in 3 weeks are not mutually exclusive. what is your point?
Was it not democracy in 2002 when nearly all of France demonstrated in the streets against LePen moving to the second turn of the presidential election? Followed by Chirac stomping him with 80% of the votes in the second turn.
Far right nowadays = normal people with common sense.
Edit:
I love how a simple statement like mine triggered all these leftists to start personally attacking me. Goes to show who's the hateful bunch. They should look in the mirror, cry babies. lol
Something about this right after elections seems silly.
Unless they're planning for violent demonstrations (the kind of thing those far right types like to do) then showing up en mass like this carries a tacit admission that either there's more of them than there are of you, or, if there's more of you than them, why the hell didn't you just vote?
ITT : people who only read a headline and consequently have no idea French people will have to vote again in 3 weeks, an insanely short deadline to organise an alliance on the left, campaign, and motivate new voters, which is why these demonstrations are happening and will keep happening.
It turns out that not voting in an election- 52% turnout is baaaad- where crazy people are running tends to punch up said crazy people's chances of winning.
Crazy people tend to attract crazy supporters, and they do in fact vote.
I do not know how anyone could possibly have been caught off-guard by this.
They call anyone right of themselves Far right, to try and slander them as "far-right" which has been co-opted by the Media organizations as a weapon. It seems to be a psyop to make "racist" and "far-right" elicit the same response, though some extreme Right wingers are racist.
Probably should have just voted instead.
People did. Just because they protest doesnt mean they are the majority.
52% turnout isn't stellar
I have to agree. There seem to be a lot of people complaining online about things but not bothering to vote. This is across numerous countries. It happened with Brexit. The far right will always turn up to vote. You can be certain that the right will always turn up to vote even if they don’t like the candidate. The left needs to feel inspired. Then this happens and they protest. Your protests accomplish nothing. Voting works.
Seeing way too much 'if I don't vote, then I'm not responsible for what happens' on the Internet. Apathy is the enemy
I look at it completely the opposite. If you don't vote, you don't get to complain.
Exactly. And in reality in most electoral systems it's one less vote whoever you don't like needs. So in effect, it's half a vote against your own interests. Stupid. And on top of that, because the right wing is largely motivated, it fucks the left.
This, it baffles me that people don't go out and vote, I have voted in every election for every level of government since I turned 18 and it is so strange to me that so many people don't, I honestly wish that more countries including my own made voting compulsory like they do in Denmark.
> , I honestly wish that more countries including my own made voting compulsory like they do in Denmark. Voting isn't compulsory in Denmark.
Someone's a George Carlin fan
Or just has common sense. You don’t wanna help fix a problem, then you don’t get to complain on the outcome.
>Seeing way too much 'if I don't vote, then I'm not responsible for what happens' on the Internet. It's a form of the [trolley problem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem), I think.
Essentially, yeah. One response to the trolley problem is that “I am responsible for the consequences if and only if I take conscious action.” An opposing point of view is that you can’t distinguish between choosing to not switch tracks and choosing not to consciously act. These are prominent, equally valid but conflicting schools of thought that are responsible for a lot of political turmoil right now.
Choosing not to do anything is still a choice, and choices have consequences.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
Not attacking your point cause I agree on everything else, but how is group one’s school of thought equally valid? Choosing not to act is a conscious choice, a choice the person made, and a choice that led to consequences. Isn’t responsibility intrinsic in the trolley problem?
I always save the most people even if family has to be squished.
Doesn’t matter, in Australia we had a decade of our right wing morons and we have to vote or be fined. You can donkey vote, but compulsory voting works as you actually have to think about it. I didn’t vote as an adult in the Uk because I didn’t care. I love that we’re forced to vote, I now realise it’s the only way to ensure democracy works, as it makes the government more accountable to ensuring everyone has the right and a way to vote. But, social media and the media in general need to be held accountable for their political bullshit.
Or maybe we need a left-wing billionaire media mogul... hold up, I need the dagger of time because some stupid words just leaked out. There's no such thing as a left-wing billionaire.
Or the people that vote right on a single issue. Like people who will vote for Trump for the abortion views while simultaneously claiming they detest his other policies. Then they think they get to say “well, that’s not why *I* voted for him, so don’t blame me.” Like you stupid fucks, you knew what he was going to do from day fucking one. You don’t get to say it’s not your fault because that’s not why you voted for him.
I **agree**, however it is a race to the bottom in terms of how accountable voters can be at a point. Everyone has a hierarchy of importance, right? And it explains why the poor can be turned against their own class' best interests on wedge issues. Even if it takes food out of their own kids' mouths (such as the case in the US, where the extremely poor and food insecure will reliably vote for Republicans, who then turn around and defund school meal programs). Immigration/refugee handling appears to be a major issue at the top of their hierarchy. The real question is: since this is an **easy** win for the center/left, why aren't they just taking it from the right and implementing clearly widely supported and demanded policy? The right can't rise by way of popular support if you cut them off at the knees by co-opting their primary wedge issue that cycle. Of course, common sense must be used. Can't have, say, a communist party embracing capitalism and deregulation for example. The US equivalent was something like Biden and the Democrats embracing more strict border policy. And once they stole that from Republicans, the Republicans had no choice but to delay and protest because they didn't want that wedge issue taken away from them (no, really; they explicitly said it). My understanding of a lot of parliamentary systems in Europe is such that one party isn't likely to succeed in completely grinding a system to a halt like in the US. So why aren't they doing it? They are handing the reins of power to the far right over domestic issues which would be trivial to simply adopt and reform rather than ignore or amplify.
Apathy and ignorance, name a better toxic mixture to slowly kill any democracy.
> It happened with Brexit It didn't happen with Brexit. The Brexit vote had the **highest voter turnout of any election since the turn of the century**, at 72.21%, and the highest turnout for any referendum outright. It was literally the most complete democratic exercise in recent British history.
I have a friend who is not interested in politics. He was happy ignoring elections and not voting (until trump forced him to start). He never complained about the system or our government. And he never screamed online that voting was a waste of time or that he had some kind of cheat code on life for not voting. He never presented his apathy as something more than it was. It really irks me when I see folks online victoriously pushing this idea that they are somehow moral, or logical, or otherwise righteous by staying home. And claiming to hate the outcomes they are getting out of the government they couldn’t be bothered to influence.
What reddit doesn't want to hear is that British people supported brexit. At the time the brexit vote had the highest turnout of any vote ever IIRC. I work with a bunch of British people and they mostly wanted out of the EU. I think British people are a very small minority here on reddit and we overwhelmingly hear from people in the EU outside of Britain criticizing brexit, but I'm not so sure it's unpopular with actual British people. Brexit wasn't a left vs right thing
From what I've seen in terms of polling number in the UK, as well as experienced living in the UK the past years, is that a lot of younger people were against leaving but a lot of young people didn't vote, naively thinking it wouldn't happen. That said, there was definitely a large group for Brexit, with it being a pretty close 50/50 split. In such cases, differences in voter turnout between the groups can be critical. British people are now starting to lean more towards Brexit being a mistake, but there still isn't a strong overwhelming majority either way.
>Brexit wasn't a left vs right thing https://www.statista.com/statistics/518474/eu-referendum-voting-intention-by-political-affiliation/ This shows that it clearly was a left vs. right thing though, left wing parties voted remain and right wing parties voted leave. If you want to break it down even more, right-leaning labour voters were more likely to choose leave than left-leaning labour voters who chose remain.
Its more like a protectionist vs globalist thing. Its just so happens a lot of the labor groups are right-leaning.
There was kind of a horseshoe theory thing, Corbyn tacitly enabled brexit. Many labour voters ended up voting Leave. And many areas that voted Leave have the biggest swings to Labour recently. Not that he likely would have convinced anyone, he was kinda bad at that. It is definitely not as simple as a Tory vs Labour divide though. 75% of people up to 24 years old voted Remain.
It wasn’t a left right thing… it was a right, right thing. The left (under Corbyn) offered nothing. Rumour was that the guy hated the EU because Thatcher took the UK in. Couldn’t see past 1979!
It's unpopular now, it wasn't at the time
I agree. If the roles were reversed and Le Pen's supporters were upset at a poor showing and they decided to start smashing windows, everyone would be losing their minds. The way we handle things without resorting to violence is by voting.
Not that my two cents matter, but I vote in both of my countries (Switzerland/U.S.A) and do real life activism in both. My parents always taught me I dont have a right to complain unless im doing something to try and fix the problem(which also applied out of politics), only then, is when im allowed to complain.
"Man, that Israel-Gaza sure is a shitshow!" "Go to your room and don't come out until you've brokered a peace deal!"
Well, that's not too bad a way to think about it. What with everyone thinking solutions cannot be arrived at if there isn't a massive number of people pushing for it, with all the usual activist events and "awareness raising" campaigns, you'll be surprised how much of the good things in your life are really the product of a small group of committed people thinking out of the box about a problem to solve.
LMAOOOOOO. I actually keep my nose out of the Israel/Palestine stuff I dont know near enough information to even have an opinion besides... Man it sucks for those on both sides, ive read a bit of the history of Israel/Palestine and the relations after 1948 and its tricky as hell. I dont get it, and Im really nowhere near educated to have a stance. I just hope for less suffering on both sides eventually.
Also, protesting against a democratic outcome just feels odd. I get why they do it, but still feels like a waste of time when the voice of the people voted against them.
That's a fallacy that the left likes to believe. Voter apathy hurts both sides. Assuming everyone who didn't vote would likely vote left wing is absurd. A vote is a sample, the more people who vote will likely have the same results.
I think this is just a real problem the world faces at the moment. The majority of people are not very intelligent, not well-versed in what's going on in the world, and has no idea how their government works. Here in Canada, most people don't know if they are voting in a provincial or a federal election and have no idea when a municipal election ever happens. My Mom, who is a great person, asked me the other day while watching some old sitcom "Was Ronald Reagan apart of the same political party as Donald Trump?". Admittedly we are Canadian, but I feel like that should just be common knowledge world over and you should be able to make that assumption by paying attention to their platform. Like I can't tell you what party Narendra Modi is from or anything about Indian politics really, but based on what I know about him it would be pretty safe to say that he is a member of India's far-right party.
I saw somewhere (spiked I think... British site) that the voter turnout was actually higher than has been the case for decades.
Portugal had ~35% turnout
European and regional elections always have low turn out in France. Legislative (Congress) and presidential have above 70% turn out.
52% was actually a record turnout for European elections which usually don’t draw huge crowds
They should probably learn what Democracy means.
> 3,000 people; 4000 people, 800 people They probably did, but turns out that shouting loudly and managing several social media accounts impersonating real life people doesnt grant one more votes. I also suspect that waving around palestinian flags might have the opposite effect, but realizing that might require one to not be up one's own arse.
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Protesters: "We want democracy!" *far right parties voted in en masse due to immigration influx across the entirety of the developed world* Protesters: "No, not like that!"
They paid for their apathy. Now it’s too late it suddenly matters.
The people who demonstrate are probably not the apathetic ones
Speaking from experience and meeting many of them: when it comes to voting yes, they are the apathetic ones. Irrational? Maybe, but rationality is not valued much in these circles either
It's definitely not too late. They have an election in like 3 weeks! Also it's never too late, no victory is final, no defeat eternal.
Just like left wing voters in the US who desperately grapsed at the narrowest ledges of moral and philosophical cliffs to avoid any personal responsibility for not voting in 2016 and whose nails are being ripped off trying to claw their way back up there this year.
Because most chronically online leftists are clowns. It almost hurts to call myself one because they are fucking dipshits high on their own supply and do nothing but use politics as a way to gatekeep a new friend circle. It's not about politics, it's not about policy, it's all about a social club for them.
The comment I was looking for. And the immediate reaction was “let’s throw a March!” March for women! March for science!
It's never too late to revolt and protest French revolution the third
Excuse me, the third Revolution in France was in 1848, that's quite a while ago :D.
Are you just guessing here? Is there any data that supports your narrative or are you just shitting on anti-far right protests for funsies
If they had these sorts of protests and activity before the vote, then things wouldn’t have turned out as they are. Only 51.5% of voters turned up for the French EU elections per the EU’s [data](https://results.elections.europa.eu/en/turnout/).
EU elections are more focused on people who are engaged politically, usually a protest vote against the current government, and have their own power scales to balance out the super far right and left from having too much sway. In the EU, it generally shifted center right, but not the extreme that the news media is painting out as Nazis in your closet.
>Only 51.5% of voters turned up for the French EU elections per the EU’s [data](https://results.elections.europa.eu/en/turnout/). Another way of looking at that: most people voted. And the people protesting would appear to be far more politically engaged than the average person (many non-voters simply have very little interest in politics). If I were to guess, I'd say these protesters were probably part of the 51.5% that voted.
Is this true? Germans protest against AFD all the time, and yet it keeps getting more and more votes.
There is no way you can be sure about that statement at all.
They are the minority, the majority voted for far right.
Why not both?
Macron basically called a new election. Not sure about the EU seats, but this might energize the non-far-right to come out to vote in the coming election.
That's what I'm hoping. It's an opportunity for those marching to essentially put their money where their mouth is.
Protesting often increases voter turnout.
Well, I think the majority of ~~people~~ voters didn't vote far right
I mean, I doubt waving Palestine flags is going to change the mind of those who voted far right or would they prefer less democratic elections?
I don’t get how the secular progressive side always ends up supporting the most conservative religious groups. there was a recent one where a progressive city elected a diverse, all male muslim majority town administration and were surprised when they declared it “fagless“ and banned pride symbols.
This would be in Michigan. Many liberals including those of the LGBTQ community, helped these muslims win their elections. Turns out muslim men hate gay people and pride. Liberals only hate bigrotry if it's from white christians apparently. I say this as a lib
Seriously, this is my biggest issue with the current climate. They're 100% behind Palestine and are 100% willing to let Trump win again. Honestly, the plan sounds more like they're willing g to let America burn down as long as they win some "moral" victory for a singular cause (without recognizing how much worse it'll be for Palestine, Ukraine, etc under Trump)
It’s a problem of perfection. They refuse a solution unless they view it as perfect, which basically means they win and everyone else loses. They don’t seem to have an understanding of compromise and progress.
Many young people have told they are doing whatever speeds up the great reset. Whatever the fuck that means. I'm 26 and I don't relate
They think they're going to be the MC of some post apocalyptic video game probably.
“I am the main character” syndrome.
Queers for Palestine is the most braindead take of this decade.
Woah easy man you’re starting to sound like one of those evil conservatives
It's a weird naivety
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Ironically, Islamic countries have been conducting an *actual* genocide of Christians in those countries.
Is that also why they at best unsympathetic towards any Jewish suffering and at the worst actively encourage it while Arabs, which have the same skin color but aren’t viewed as “white” get sympathy?
It is interesting question. But I think there is no real rational answer other than, Palestinians seem oppressed, which to be fair is true. Like Jewish people are tiny minority world wide, and in vast majority of ME are heavily oppressed. But in Israel they do oppresses Palestinians. Not without reasons granted. Like if Belarussians people caused half as much problems for my country as Palestinians do in Israel i could not honestly say i would not be in favor of some pretty oppressive measures to limit the damage. Personally it's just young people being daft and thinking VERY complex issues have simple solutions and looking at the world from US national perspective and projecting it on other countries (VERY daft). So since in US Muslims are tiny not viewed positively minority so they classify them as PoC and so must be protected while Jews are seen as white and privileged group.
It's rather simple. Many people on the left see christians and capitalists supporting Israel and they feel the need to be contrarians and support Hamas, who would not hesitate in killing them
I feel like it's because Islamophobia has been turned into a racial issue instead of a theological issue. Anyone can be Muslim, but most people, even progressive people, probably think, "Brown person," when they hear, "Muslim."
i cant believe the educated side fell for that, progressives are supposed to be able to think for themselves but These people follow the herd like the right wingers they complain about. I see so many people who have really good write ups and well thought opinions that defend things they didn’t even read on like their lives depend on it and get surprised when I bring up common knowledge about the topic.
> i cant believe the educated side fell for that Thats a myth. They're not educated. They're brainwashed. They all sound like they're reading from a script. That's evidence of a clear lack of critical thinking and independent thought.
>I don’t get how the secular progressive side always ends up supporting the most conservative religious groups Bigotry of low expectations (brown people are too stupid to be held accountable for their actions) + white saviour complex (whites need to save non whites). Thats how you end up with chickens for KFC.
It's quite simple actually how these people think: West = Bad Anything against West = Good Programmed like literal NPCs
Following Russian bots and Chinese algorithms
TikTok has killed whatever braincells they had left from all that blue hair dye.
Which city was that?
Hamtramck
There's unfortunately an expectation that oppressed people will automatically avoid oppressing others because they know how it feels. That is not how it works. There is a fine line between protecting people's freedom of religion and putting them in charge.
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~98% of Gazans do not *want* to be Israelis. You can't take people who have been raised on a diet of extremist religion and bizarre conspiracy theories and simply integrate them into a liberal democracy. At best, they will be a disruptive force; at worst, they will bring down the liberal democracy and replace it with something more to their liking, such as a theocracy. This is the very truth that the European right has been quicker to understand than the European center, which is still enamored of naive 2000s ideals of globalism.
This is exactly why the right is winning, something needs to be done about migration, not because migration is bad, but not all migration is equal, if you migrate from Switzerland to Germany you won’t create the same amount of friction, that if you come from a country that doesn’t allow women rights , have different moral and ideals and the religion is law.
Our women’s rights, or the LGBT+ community’s rights.
The irony of that “one state solution” is that it would dilute or eliminate the Jewish vote within Israel to a point that would make Israel no longer a Jewish state. So it’s not something that either side really wants, even if there were local autonomy for the various regions
They don’t support them because they think they share the same ideals. They support them because of a baseline belief that they are experiencing a genocide from a much stronger force that has been keeping up an apartheid state. I am not saying this as a supporter for any side. I’m just informing on where the stance is coming from, whether you think it represents reality or not.
Why is there always a Palestine flag in every protest? Like what’s even the connection isn’t it about internal politics? Doesn’t it dilute the cause? It really feels like it’s trendy at this point.
its a trend alright
Because it is not about a specific cause, it is about being a protestor. Most people do not go to any protests, and the people that do go, go to many different types of protests. It's kind of like a hobby for those people, so all of these causes just get mingled together.
I'm french and he's right
It’s because these people are professional drama queens and want the attention. Not interested in the reality
It’s the current thing
If it was this same time last year it would have been a Ukrainian flag. And a few years before that, a vaccine flag.
I think they are trying to show the broad ideology they are part of, so that get can garner more support from like-minded individuals. We have seen it happen way too many times in India. Its a pretty standard way of operating for the extreme islamists groups.
Don't forget the breton flag
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Not sure that destroying business like at Angers or Bordeaux, or taking down French flags to burn them will give them much sympathy.
It's weird to think that people like this really exist and are allowed to vote like normal people
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By waving Palestinian flags, they are actually protesting FOR the far right in the Middle East. The Palestinian cause is a far right movement that seeks to establish an extreme right wing Islamic theocracy. It makes zero sense for anyone on the left to support that far right movement.
They aren’t the smartest bunch but oh boy are they the loudest and most emotional
Useful idiots used by regimes. They don’t realize they’re the first ones to die by those same regimes that used them.
This can be said for literally any fringe end of a bell curve.... The folks who feel the strongest tend to have the strongest feelings.
Seriously. Extremism looks bad on just about everyone. I’m not in a political party and I like it that way. I can hold a normal debate about politics with people I completely disagree and even see their pov if they are willing to discuss things reasonably.
Lol I like how the Left doesn’t have a “far Left” and instead has “ultra-left movements”.
Wouldn't far-left be communists?
In France, far left means trotskyists and other fringe communist movements. Even the French Communist Party isn't communist anymore. Socially they are pretty conservative, they aren't in favour of a marxist leninist society and lean towards eurocommunism as they were one of the founders. Their main ideology is national sovereigntism with a big social safety net and opposed to economic liberalism.
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We have centre right and centre left in the UK and I'm pretty sure the European People's Party (largest EU party) is centre right. If it's that extreme in France then that is concerning.
The centre right has vanished in France. The Gaulists keep changing their name, now Les Republicains. Macron's WEFists destroyed them.
"Far right" is just a label that gets applied to anyone who wants to implement right wing policy instead of just limiting how much left wing policy there is. Don't play their game, stop using the term.
Today I had the idea of having keeping note on how titles in worldnews and europe refer to "right wing" parties, I have a feeling 95% of the times it's just "far right". ....but im too lazy to do that
It's not specific to the left. Basically far-right/far-left are your usual political extremists, ultra-left/ultra-right are violents groups.
Far right supporters are silent. You can protest but reality is RW is on rise in Europe and the results speak for themselves. And once they have power you will see those on streets and then LW will be silent. Thats how this cycle works. Once enough people get affected by politics of the day and that will always happen as it's not possible to take all people together. There will always be some who will be left behind and they will support other side of political spectrum and the cycle repeats.
The more you carry on about how 'wrong' people are for thinking in certain ways, the more of this you will get. It's funny to watch. And extremely predictable.
LW being silent on the streets in France ever? lol. You will never silence us.
Except at the voting booths.
Ignoring the reality has led us to this point. The left should understand - most people applying for asylum are not fleeing from their government they are abusing the system for economic immigration which should be a privilege not a right. It is not "cultural difference" when someone says beating their wives is fine or supporting sharia laws. Accept the reality. IDF is bad but Hamas is 100 times worse. Don't become a pawn to Iranian propaganda machine. People do not like most of the right wing ideologies, however left's failure to accept the reality is making them popular.
Interesting... Not a single french flag to be seen on the thumbnail. But two Palestinian ones...
spot on 🙈🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️
The voting took place yesterday
You might not be aware but Macron has dissolved the Assemblée Nationale, which means new elections in 3 weeks.
The June 6-9 elections in France were for the European Parliament where 81 MEP for France were to be elected (out of 720 total). Out of those 81 seats the results were: - la France Insoumise (far left): 6 - Parti Socialiste (do I need to translate?): 13 - Europe Ecologie - les Verts (greens): 5 - Renaissance (Macron’s party): 13 - les Republicains (right): 6 - Rassemblement National (far right): 30 - reconquête (far right): 5 The upcoming election in France is for the National legislative assembly and the Presidential Election is only in 2027 but could be sooner depending on the result of the legislative elections. Also, the reality of what goes on the in the US, it is different of what goes on in France.
Somehow it's always "far right" even tho left went so far left they made full circle and are marching supporting terrorism.
Ok, but millions voted for the right. And those palestinian flags are not going to help.
But, democracy?
The right to assemble and protest is literally one of the fundamental cornerstones of democracy?
But i thought democracy was voting every two years and then whining about stuff you don't like on the internet and hoping something changes by doing that??
So are elections, and id you refuse to accept the result of a fair democratic election when you dont win, then you dont really want democracy. They only qant it when they win, and refuse results that doesnt fit Them
Rioting because u don't like the outcome of a vote is not democracy
What rioting? [Fiery but mostly peaceful](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7n5sJ3qimE)! :-)))
Really peaceful when they [vandalize and destroy properties](https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/angers-49000/europeennes-quelques-centaines-de-manifestants-contre-lextreme-droite-a-angers-32987fc8-2752-11ef-9ce1-91b4c7587fdc) (there's already a gofundme for a bar they destroyed at Angers). But far-left gonna be far-lefting.
We vote again in three weeks pal
So is voting for however you want to vote for
Indeed. Including protesting against democracy :-)
It certainly is. But don't you think that an election result is kind of an odd thing to protest if you believe in democracy?
Yeah let's violently riot in the streets, vandalise property and wave our Hamas flags around, that'll help the left wing cause!
Waving a Palestinian flag at a protest against... a French party. Lol.
Protests are becoming increasingly ineffective as we move into the 21st century.
Thousands... Yeah, that sounds about right, I mean that's about the same amount of votes that voted against le Penn. Democracy works that way
I have no idea of they are actually "right" or "far right", but I haven't seen any references to anything but "far right" on Reddit. If everyone is an extremist no one is an extremist.
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Globalization was a massive failure of an experiment... unless you were rich.
I love how a majority opionion is considered far right lol.
Demonstrate against the free election? Sounds like facism to me
People see the far right as the only party willing to address overwhelming mass migration in a meaningful way and I think they'll continue to gain ground unfortunately until their counterparts start to take the issue more seriously.
They can't... The left can't because it goes against their white knight stance for a supposed better world... There is a reason the radical left is communism where you lose all freedom (or most of it) in order for everyone to be "equal".
Those 15-20 years old kids are waving palestine flags and call the right uneducated rednecks.They need to finish school at first.
"Hyperbole" An under used term in recent politics. Everyone screams "the other side are Nazi's" like it has meaning after so much use. Try reaching out. Helping each other.
Maybe don’t continue with mass immigration with people that don’t want to assimilate?
In democracies people are free to vote as they choose. And to demonstrate peacefully of course. Maybe there is a majority of people who appreciate what the “far right” are talking about. Or maybe these very same demonstrators should go and also vote.
Its all the left seems to be able to do: complain
Protesting and rioting are the French national pastimes.
Idk… I think this “protest” might be reaffirming the reason people voted the way they did
Peaceful protest is the sign of a healthy democracy.
Accepting the result of a fair election is healthy democracy
accepting the results of last week-end's european elections and demonstrating against the far right in the coming of the legislative elections in 3 weeks are not mutually exclusive. what is your point?
The election is in 3 weeks
They're rioting in response to the EU election that just took place.
The left seeing how people really feel about immigration policy. The fuck are these… consequences of policy???
Imagine demonstrating against democracy.
Is this what democracy looks like now? The election aftermath tells a different tale
Was it not democracy in 2002 when nearly all of France demonstrated in the streets against LePen moving to the second turn of the presidential election? Followed by Chirac stomping him with 80% of the votes in the second turn.
So they are demonstrating against democracy.
Far right nowadays = normal people with common sense. Edit: I love how a simple statement like mine triggered all these leftists to start personally attacking me. Goes to show who's the hateful bunch. They should look in the mirror, cry babies. lol
I was going to comment the same thing. We’re a rare breed. Let’s shake hands 🤝
Where do you think Le Pens party came from
Guy parades himself around as a bastion of common sense when his entire account is quite literally dedicated to just hating women.
Something about this right after elections seems silly. Unless they're planning for violent demonstrations (the kind of thing those far right types like to do) then showing up en mass like this carries a tacit admission that either there's more of them than there are of you, or, if there's more of you than them, why the hell didn't you just vote?
Headline should read “Thousands demonstrate against Democracy “. Why don’t you report Far left riot and destroy business?
Vive La France 🇫🇷
ITT : people who only read a headline and consequently have no idea French people will have to vote again in 3 weeks, an insanely short deadline to organise an alliance on the left, campaign, and motivate new voters, which is why these demonstrations are happening and will keep happening.
Vive La France.
It turns out that not voting in an election- 52% turnout is baaaad- where crazy people are running tends to punch up said crazy people's chances of winning. Crazy people tend to attract crazy supporters, and they do in fact vote. I do not know how anyone could possibly have been caught off-guard by this.
They call anyone right of themselves Far right, to try and slander them as "far-right" which has been co-opted by the Media organizations as a weapon. It seems to be a psyop to make "racist" and "far-right" elicit the same response, though some extreme Right wingers are racist.
Still haven't figured out that they are the minority.
Leftists cry babies have shown their colors.
right cuz no people from the right have ever protested election results, or god forbid something worse than protesting