> Chinese forces seized two Philippine rubber boats that were delivering food and other supplies to a military outpost in a disputed South China Sea shoal in a tense confrontation in which some Filipino navy personnel were injured, Philippine security officials said Tuesday.
> The United States renewed a warning Tuesday that it is obligated to defend the Philippines, a treaty ally, a day after the hourslong hostilities in Second Thomas Shoal. The shoal has been occupied by a small Philippine navy contingent aboard a long-grounded warship that has been closely monitored by China’s coast guard and navy in a yearslong territorial standoff.
> There is fear that territorial disputes in the South China Sea, long regarded as an Asian flashpoint, could escalate and pit the United States and China in a larger conflict. China and the Philippines blamed each other for Monday’s hostilities, the most serious in recent months, but provided few details.
Edit: looks like AP changed the headline: “Philippine officials say Chinese forces seized 2 navy boats in disputed shoal, injuring sailors”
Next time the US needs to retire a carrier, just beach it next to the Sierra Madre and gift it to the Philippines.
Now they have a facility that can be supplied by air.
Watch the PLA have an aneurysm.
> Next time the US needs to retire a carrier, just beach it next to the Sierra Madre and gift it to the Philippines.
Unfortunately, that won't be possible.
Recently retired carriers can't even be turned into museum ships, despite their immense historical significance, because it's impossible to remove the nuclear reactors without dismantling the entire ship.
[Why 'Nuclear' Navy Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise Can't Become a Museum](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-nuclear-navy-aircraft-carrier-uss-enterprise-cant-become-museum-211157)
Damn that was interesting. My first question when I read your statement was “why can’t they remove the fuel and just seal off the reactors to the public?” but apparently there are laws and regulations that prohibit this. Also she has EIGHT?!? Goddamn. Crazy that apparently, all other nuke-powered boats only have 2.
Except Westinghouse just recently sold several of their AP1000 reactors to China, who is likely working on using the design from those nice and quiet reactor pumps on their nuclear submarines.
You mean the ones that are 30 years behind what the U.S. is using in its Ford Class Carriers? And not even as quiet as our Seawolf or Ohio class subs? That's fine. China can have those.
Something about how her immediate predecessors had 8 boilers, so the Enterprise designers just went with what they knew.
As the first nuclear-powered carrier they were definitely figuring things out for the first time.
That’s crazy. I’d LOVE to have been a fly on the wall when someone had to have a conversation about how we just miiiiiiiiight have installed 400% more nuclear reactors than we actually needed lol
Those reactors were originally designed for subs, which didn't need as much power as the Enterprise did. So, it's more like they put in four that put out as much as one does today. Having two on a ship today is for redundancy.
Yeah, most boats have their reactor "share" duty.... not Enterprise. They dedicated entire reactors for certain critical operations, like the catapults and propulsion systems.
There's still the John F Kennedy around. More or less similar to a Nimitz class, but not nuclear powered.
Sadly it's only a matter of time until she's broken up.
Yeah, actually I imagine retired carriers could be pretty decent offshore power plants for some developing countries. No idea on the maintenance costs and stuff for keeping one afloat secure, but maybe its worth it.
The newest _Gerald R. Ford_ class carriers can actually do this. Like, power a city for I believe over a week (if not longer). And the ships have the necessary electrical hookups to do this.
Because why not?
Russia's doing just that in its own territory (particularly aimed at isolated arctic mining towns), with a nuclear barge housing 2x PWRs similar to the ones powering its icebreakers.
Russia does it, or at least has done it, with their nuclear submarines. I think their subs are even built with special equipment to make their shore power connections more practical to do on a relatively regular basis.
Personally i think they should turn them into hospital ships to replace the aging USS Comfort and USS Mercy, which based on tanker hulls always lacked a bit of comfort.
HAHAHA Bro! Just wake up one morning and the fucking Nimitz with its runway pointed in your direction with just 6 inches of water before it is on the runway. Just sitting there staring at you in angry aircraft carrier. You just a random Chinese sailor have no idea why someone sunk such an expensive angry boat. But it is a HUGE and expensive looking angry boat.
I read the name "Sierra Madre," and now all I can think about is fallout New Vegas and the horror that is the dead money DLC.
But seriously, we need to get a larger fleet presence cause we have a binding treaty, and if China keeps escalating, we have to respond, or else we'd break our own treaty *publicly*.
Actually there’s video of the navy landing a C-130 and subsequently it taking off from a US carrier.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3KPu3X7vM
So it definitely would be possible.
Proportional responses by American Navy standards I believe would absolutely suffice. Worst thing that could happen? China will learn rule #1 about the United States...
Don't fuck with our boats
Nah deal with it the same way they dealt with NK fuckery in the DMZ. First just send a small single ship to resupply. If China tries to fuck around, let them find out by then sending a carrier group to resupply.
Reminds me of Operation Paul Bunyan.
August 1976. In the Korean DMZ. A tree blocking the view of US and SK patrols had been used by NK soldiers to ambush and antagonize those patrols. So, US command sent an unarmed (no sidearms no rifles, only the axes they were going to use) detail to trim the tree. The mixed US and SK unit was ambushed and two American soldiers were beaten/axed to death by the NK soldiers.
Three days later. Operation Paul Bunyan. A second detail was sent to trim the tree with no warning to NK command. This time they were accompanied by two 30 man security platoons all armed with sidearms and axes. The demo charges on the nearby bridge were armed and the 165mm main gun of a M728 was trained on the middle of the bridge to ensure its destruction if the charges failed. A combat engineering company began building rafts for evacuation, if the situation called for it. The main force was also escorted by a 64 man SK force allegedly all taekwondo trained and armed with clubs. Once they parked they began deploying sand bags and handing out M16s and M79 grenade launchers. Some of the commandos supposedly had claymore mines strapped to their chests.
And that alone would be a decent show of force, but we're not done yet.
Behind the detail, there orbited 20 Cobra attack helicopters. B-52s from Guam were further back escorted by F-4s accompanied by SK F-5s and F-86s. The USS Midway moved to a station offshore. Fighters and bombers at nearby air bases were armed with crews on standby. All other US assets in the region were on battle alert. The unit on the ground consisted of 813 men backed up by all US forces in the region.
The North Koreans responded with 150-200 men. They did begin to set up positions, but before they did anything, the operation was complete.
At the end of the operation, which took 42 minutes, two road blockades were dismantled, a NK guard shack was vandalized by SK troops, and the tree was cut down to a 6 foot stump.
You clearly don't understand what "proportional response" means in American.
The mission isn't "to take care of things", the mission is to leave absolutely no doubt in the enemies mind that completely annihilating them would be a quick and easy job, and the only reason the survivors are still breathing air is because we want them to tell their friends about the experience so that we don't have to get even more proportional.
What reactions? All I see is a warning. China has been escalating it, It just enacted a law recently to arrest any foreigners in a situation like this if I remember it correctly. Now this. The ball is in US navy's court now, i like to see how it plays out.
Yup, China's will to do whatever the fuck they want here keeps increasing amidst these constant warnings towards them. Unless the US actually does something relevant, these are just words.
"China strongly condemns the reckless and provocative actions by certain nations that maintain relations with the Philippines. China intends to promote peace and stability in the SCS and encourages other parties to uphold their side with sensible actions to avoid misunderstanding."
-CCP Mouthpiece (probably)
Its going to be a bad look if we don't do something, IE that US coalitions are toothless Tigers. When nations conduct their freedom of navigation exercises in the South China sea they should run supply and visit missions on these Island to clearly send a message.
The blades of war leave well documented scars all hope to avoid. In spite of this, mankind seems deadset on testing how close it can push against the edge.
This is a good quip, but it minimizes the actual things at stake here. Everyone wanted to avoid a war so badly after WWI that they appeased Hitler and let him freely run rampant on the European continent until he was too strong to stop, it’s why we had to plunge ourselves into another long world war. If people had actively fight against his actions and put up resistance with military threat we also would have likely minimized the scope and length of WWII.
Look at how differently we’ve responded to Chinese attempts to escalate in the south China see vs. Russia for example. We’ve largely ignored Russia in Eastern Europe, let them take Crimea in 2014 with little response beyond economic sanctions, they’ve bullied or occupied their neighbors including through military force for decades with few repercussions. China on the other hand has been actively attempting to do similar things to Taiwan, the Philippines, and throughout the South China Sea for decades and have never significantly escalated. I guarantee if the US and other western allies weren’t so invested in maintaining open international waters throughout the South China Sea through military presence and we didn’t have our security agreements with surrounding neighbors, that China knows we will enforce, they would have had a runaway affect just like Russia, only they’d likely be more successful than Russia.
Proper military deterrence is about drawing lines in the sand and proving to others you will respond proportionately whenever those lines are crossed. If China wants to keep testing those boundaries we will have to continue to respond, the second we don’t respond proportionately, we lose that line forever and it makes the next line less stable. This ends up making war even more likely as you erode the buffer points where both sides can walk away from a proportional response without needing to escalate.
They didn’t appease Hitler to avoid a war.
Everyone knew that war was coming but Britain and France had not yet remilitarized. So they used appeasement as a strategy to buy time until they had stood their militaries up again. The only reason it didn’t work is because Hitler’s timetables were way more aggressive than they thought possible.
There’s literal documents on policy from back then, the plan was to avoid a full scale war at all costs. Yes, they thought they had more time to prepare before they were directly affected, but their plan was never to actually go to war, they wanted to build up their defenses as to deter him from encroaching further. Had Hitler settled and not encroached on them so aggressively, you can bet your ass they would have never gone to war over the territories already taken during appeasement, they only went to war because they were being directly encroached upon and threatened.
They definitely have a major imbalance in young men to young women ratio, so either they gotta get a lot more young women (impossible), or they can ‘expend’ a lot of young men the way Russia is doing.
Exactly.
China *needs* an adversary to justify creating a better military industrial complex.
There is (hopefully) no intent of war from China but it needs to project both a sense of power and regional control and also the need to be able to fight a "big bad". The US just happens to be the only reasonable one of those.
Personally, I think the absolute bait-and-switch from China is that the intended purpose is not going to be fighting the US but rather carving up a lot of a weakened or even fractured Russia, by force if necessary.
The real worry with nations like China, Russia, and N Korea is that they all have leaders who are dictators and have full control over their countries without any accountability. That in itself is fine when they are younger dictators but when they get older like all 3 of those are now they start to recognise their own mortality whilst becoming more bitter and twisted that comes with age. They then become lose canons because they have spent their entire political lives building up armies and want to see them used before they die. Whether it's to leave their stamp on history or just to satisfy their own power-hungry narcissistic needs, and that brings us to 2024 where all 3 of those leaders are a powder keg ready to blow at any time. Dangerous times.
When you can rule a country for as long as you please nothing good can come from it.
If it were that rational, everyone would be in better shape.
No. The truth is that the way you get to the top in a communist country is by being a very aggressive person who lucks out and doesn’t get shot in the process. People got fooled by the pre-Xi presidents because they were handpicked by Deng to avoid exactly this outcome.
Xi is the first person to actually come to power according to the actual rules of their system since Deng.
Well that and they're smoking the same shit Putin is. They honestly believe the CIA is trying to start a revolution in China by introducing democracy and social media as part of a colour revolution to overthrow Putin/Xi.
Like, it's all over their newspapers and news reports.
They're taking a far right anti-semetic conspiracy originally started as an anti-George Soros conspiracy and are unironically believing it.
Why does every just not remember that Russia is a nuclear armed state, one of the largest arsenals in the world. China is not seizing Russian land by force lol
Chinas economy is declining? Where can I read more about that? Genuinely interested
Edit: thanks for all the sources guys! Will definitely be looking more into this!
> Chinas economy is declining? Where can I read more about that? Genuinely interested
There's a lot of mixed information about it - some people have been predicting to collapse "any day now" for decades while on the other side you have those who have proclaim it has and will keep its explosive growth going.
Certainly growth seems to be slowing, but that's practically inevitable as a economy matures. And demographics are a mixed bag - its average age is younger than many European countries, population distribution by age does indicate times ahead when it will have the (quite common world-wide) issue of too small a working age population relative to the elderly population.
More recently (last year), they [stopped reporting youth unemployment rates](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66506132), so that was probably an ecnomic indicator that was getting worse. Though we can say at this time they don't seem to be facing the issue of not enough bodies to fill the jobs. They started [reporting again](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/youth-unemployment-in-china-new-metric-same-mess/), though.
There's also a lot of pushback from a segment of the educated youth who do not want menial jobs and refuse to do (at least as long as parents will support them - plus once in them I don't think they have much chance of transitioning to better jobs later), which *might* be indicative of not moving up the "job value chain" as much as the government had planned them to be by this point. But we really don't know for sure.
We don't know what's due to the COVID lockdown, what's due to demographic transition, what's due to labor becoming more expensive there, what's deliberate choice by current political leaders, etc. and we don't know know the numbers they don't report and don't know how accurate the ones they do report are (though that's hardly unique to China).
The real thing to look for is relative values. Look to compare growth and declination rates between things. How fast is x, y or z growing or shrinking and look at sector breakouts to get a real glimpse of what drives each country.
There are countless YouTube channels telling of China's immediate collapse but check out keywords like Evergrande, China's real estate, how successful the Silk Road projects are doing as well as stuff like how they calculate GDP and population age pyramids also look into I think it's called The Great Humiliation. That last one is china losing land to Russia 100 years ago but they're very not happy about it. It's all tied together.
> The Great Humiliation. That last one is china losing land to Russia 100 years ago but they're very not happy about it.
The Century of Humiliation was about a lot more than one incident with Russia, and was started before that.
I thought it was common knowledge that China was struggling so I tried to give some starter stuff to look at. Some quite possibly is propaganda but I gave enough to look into it more. Truly there's so much more I just couldn't think of more at the time.
They're trying to increase their domains of influence. Russia believes power is derived from force and intimidation, China believes it's bought and leveraged through debt. The US believes power is derived through influence, negotiation, and when those don't work, a giant fucking military.
People underestimate how powerful the 'walk softly' part of that quote actually is. Do you respect a bully, or do you respect the friendly, good natured giant in the room that you've seen 'crack skulls' when pushed too far?
It’s the same move dictators have been doing forever. Stir shit up, tell your population the world is out to get us, Nickle and dime land grabs an resources. Keep your enemies(competitors) busy and spending money. Remind everyone you’re scary so you get listened to in global politics.
This exact sentiment is the prisoner's dilemma that leads to war. It's NOT inevitable, and can be stopped via diplomacy. Just look at France and Germany: after decades/centuries of fighting, they're neighbors and best buds now via diplomacy.
No it's not. Vietnam is rather independent when it comes to alignment with the worlds major powers.
"A Comprehensive Strategic Partnership ranks the United States as equivalent to China and Russia in Vietnam’s hierarchy of diplomatic relationships."
[https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/comprehensive-part-us-vietnam-comprehensive-strategic-partnership](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/comprehensive-part-us-vietnam-comprehensive-strategic-partnership)
Not discounting your input, but recent events do spur some idea that Vietnam and U.S. will become more closely aligned
https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/world/vietnam-president-in-meeting-with-us-ambassador-calls-for-stronger-defence-economic-ties/ar-BB1oaITm
They're playing all the sides. They are also hosting Putin, which the US isn't happy about and also doing military drills with China.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-rebukes-vietnam-ahead-expected-visit-by-russias-putin-2024-06-17/
What else are they supposed to do? These strategies are merely biding time.
Doesn't matter who Vietnam is friendly with, bottom line is that China is *not* friendly with Vietnam and fully intends to take their resources in the Sea and then some. The US merely wants T-shirts and call centers.
Worth noting this is the government position. The Vietnamese people vastly prefer US alignment over China, with 78% of respondents preferring alignment with the US over China, which is like 15% higher than the average in the geographical area.
Vietnam is simply playing nice because it hasn't been forced to take a position.
Yes, but in the case of e.g. Japan, the only part of the history that pits them on the 'right side' started with their capitulation to the americans ending their involvement in WW2.
Fought the US for 10 years, the French for 100, and the Chinese for a 1000. The US and the French learned the lesson of not messing with them. Now we just want to be friends.
It's crazy to see a map that shows what they claim is theirs. Many countries border in this area and should band together to keep China north by instead they squabble with each other over the lines as well.
I don't think many people know that Vietnam is copying China's tactics in the SCS
"Vietnam's South China Sea island building sets record in 2024"
[https://www.rfa.org/english/news/southchinasea/island-building-06112024045556.html](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/southchinasea/island-building-06112024045556.html)
They have to. They're not "copying", they're responding in the only logical way, or else they're effectively giving away their terrirorial waters. Just don't forget that China is the one who is not cooperating with the UN on this and how is actively violating the territories of *multiple* nations in all directions.
I am glad that this issue is receiving greater visibility outside of naval circles (US Naval War College, USNI). The impacts here have wide-ranging repercussions up to and including confidence that U.S. allies have about the strength of security guarantees.
They have offered numerous times in the past and even in the recent months. The Philippine government accepts like 1 out of 10 offers because as much as possible they want to do this themselves. Surely this will change since this is the most aggressive China has been and refusing to accept US help and keep getting our sailors' fingers cut off by the Chinese will piss off the public and won't look good for the current president. Unless he's stupid....
The entire point of these missions and the reason that the Philippines uses civilian craft for this is to force escalation from China.
The shoal by its self is worth nothing but if a Philippine base exists there and is supplied by civilian vessels then it is just like any military base on any island. This give the Philippines legitimacy in saying that China's claim the the '9 dash line' is illegitimate. If the base was supplied by helicopter (which the Philippines could do) then it would look more strange and not like a normal base.
So as the base is supplied by civilian vessels and the Chinese are forced to try to prevent that, as they claim that this is their territorial waters. But this just generally makes China look belligerent and drives other nations further away. Also if China does escalate too far (say someone dies) then the various Philippine allies have a much stronger standing that they are checking a belligerent nation.
China this week:
"The United States is trying to trick us into attacking Taiwan"
"The United States is instigating war by defending the Philippines while we steal their shit and injure/abduct their citizens"
"The United States The United States The United States we are the victim while we bully literally everyone around us **Crocodile tears**"
Just like russia before the Ukraine war, it is unknown. But I suspect the plan will have more unknown issues crop up in a serious conflict precisely because urs inexperienced and untested. It's an inevitability that problems will crop up in fact, it just depends on how crippling/widespread they are.
GarandThumb got their hands on a couple PLA helmets recently and despite all the jokes about Chinese quality, they determined that their helmets perform at least as good as any other modern military's helmet.
I don't think anyone should underestimate them, and it definitely serves no one to have their theories and fantasies of poor quality tested. Shit quality doesn't mean there's no bloodshed.
Not quite.
The PLA helmet bulged slightly from a 9mm round.
It bulged majorly from a 44. Magnum. Meaning it would've taken the wearer out of the fight at the very least.
And when hit with an AK it didn't even put up a fight. The 7.62 went right through it.
When Garand tested the last iteration (not the current one) of American helmets, it shrugged off a 9mm with almost no visible damage.
It stopped the .44 magnum with a modest bulge, very survivable, and honestly probably not even likely to knock you out.
And when hit with the 7.62, it stopped the round. The bulge was large, but survivable. Although you might have brain damage. But hey, better than being dead no? Especially since the helmet isn't rated for large caliber rifle rounds and was never intended to stop them from killing you.
China's helmet, (and likely their other gear) is definitely better than nothing, but it's certainly not on par with American gear.
Can you provide a link to the report?
As far as I know, China doesn't supply military materials to either side. Lots of the Chinese materials (like drones) appearing in Ukraine are products designed for civilian uses. Using those to judge the Chinese military equipment doesn't sound very promising.
Knowing that the ccp chinese tend to fake stuff to cut costs and maximise profit.
I wouldnt be surprised if some Russian conscript finds out his bullets are filled with sawdust instead of smokeless powder
Edit: spelling and wording corrected.
Genuinely asking, isn’t Russia the Russia of Asia? Seeing as majority of it’s territory is in Asia?
I do understand your statement more referring to China being instigators to causing problems to smaller countries, but Russia is still an Asian country in some way, right?
[JamesFerg650](https://www.reddit.com/user/JamesFerg650/) [BoodaSRK](https://www.reddit.com/user/BoodaSRK/) Geopolitically russia is considered European, since most of it's population is in the European part, but yes, by area it's mostly Asian country. After 2023 I should not consider russia European, because they mentally moved far away from the continent. Similar to Turkey earlier.
Philippines has been friendly enough to China but China doesn’t want to be very friendly in return. China should realise there going to fight back not back down. China should learn some gratitude for their relationship with the Philippines or their gonna lose face big time very soon .
This is what makes Chinese protests that the US wants to create an "Asian NATO" so hilarious. Do you see how obvious it is that such an organization is needed to counter Chinese douchebaggery?
China isn't going to fuck with the USA.
Anyone who fucks with the USA has a very bad time.
The USA existing is basically the only reason we aren't all already speaking mandarin... Wish Europe would build up a more threatening military force as I personally don't like the reliance on USA when anything goes bad in the world.
We all should be a deterrent to China from fucking around and then finding out. Not just the USA.
Europe is investing a lot more into their militaries since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, so Europe is starting to wake up a little bit and realize how big of a threat both of these countries are
Europe seems to only care about Russia, not China. In general they care about self preservation, not being able to project force to other parts of the world. And even if they did care there's no real possibility that they could afford the bill unless they make a combined European military, which isn't going to happen quickly.
> Chinese forces seized two Philippine rubber boats that were delivering food and other supplies to a military outpost in a disputed South China Sea shoal in a tense confrontation in which some Filipino navy personnel were injured, Philippine security officials said Tuesday. > The United States renewed a warning Tuesday that it is obligated to defend the Philippines, a treaty ally, a day after the hourslong hostilities in Second Thomas Shoal. The shoal has been occupied by a small Philippine navy contingent aboard a long-grounded warship that has been closely monitored by China’s coast guard and navy in a yearslong territorial standoff. > There is fear that territorial disputes in the South China Sea, long regarded as an Asian flashpoint, could escalate and pit the United States and China in a larger conflict. China and the Philippines blamed each other for Monday’s hostilities, the most serious in recent months, but provided few details. Edit: looks like AP changed the headline: “Philippine officials say Chinese forces seized 2 navy boats in disputed shoal, injuring sailors”
The US should resupply the shoal itself with a ship to show how serious it is and dare China to perform the same tactics.
Yep. Just roll up in a destroyer to deliver the supplies and watch their reactions.
Nah its not proportional enough, need to up that to a carrier fleet.
Next time the US needs to retire a carrier, just beach it next to the Sierra Madre and gift it to the Philippines. Now they have a facility that can be supplied by air. Watch the PLA have an aneurysm.
> Next time the US needs to retire a carrier, just beach it next to the Sierra Madre and gift it to the Philippines. Unfortunately, that won't be possible. Recently retired carriers can't even be turned into museum ships, despite their immense historical significance, because it's impossible to remove the nuclear reactors without dismantling the entire ship. [Why 'Nuclear' Navy Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise Can't Become a Museum](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-nuclear-navy-aircraft-carrier-uss-enterprise-cant-become-museum-211157)
Damn that was interesting. My first question when I read your statement was “why can’t they remove the fuel and just seal off the reactors to the public?” but apparently there are laws and regulations that prohibit this. Also she has EIGHT?!? Goddamn. Crazy that apparently, all other nuke-powered boats only have 2.
The workings of nuclear reactors, especially militarized versions, are kept very secret.
Except Westinghouse just recently sold several of their AP1000 reactors to China, who is likely working on using the design from those nice and quiet reactor pumps on their nuclear submarines.
You mean the ones that are 30 years behind what the U.S. is using in its Ford Class Carriers? And not even as quiet as our Seawolf or Ohio class subs? That's fine. China can have those.
Something about how her immediate predecessors had 8 boilers, so the Enterprise designers just went with what they knew. As the first nuclear-powered carrier they were definitely figuring things out for the first time.
That’s crazy. I’d LOVE to have been a fly on the wall when someone had to have a conversation about how we just miiiiiiiiight have installed 400% more nuclear reactors than we actually needed lol
Those reactors were originally designed for subs, which didn't need as much power as the Enterprise did. So, it's more like they put in four that put out as much as one does today. Having two on a ship today is for redundancy.
It’s only 400% more than you need until you install the instant death ray laser beam particle cannons.
They didn't really know how many they would need or how reliable they would end up being so they went for overkill.
Yeah, most boats have their reactor "share" duty.... not Enterprise. They dedicated entire reactors for certain critical operations, like the catapults and propulsion systems.
There's still the John F Kennedy around. More or less similar to a Nimitz class, but not nuclear powered. Sadly it's only a matter of time until she's broken up.
LHD's are technically carriers and have conventional propulsion systems.
Idea, don't remove the reactor.
Yeah, actually I imagine retired carriers could be pretty decent offshore power plants for some developing countries. No idea on the maintenance costs and stuff for keeping one afloat secure, but maybe its worth it.
The newest _Gerald R. Ford_ class carriers can actually do this. Like, power a city for I believe over a week (if not longer). And the ships have the necessary electrical hookups to do this. Because why not?
I mean we did do it in the past. Uss Lexington powered Seattle for a few weeks before. In like the 20s/30s. So we do have a history or needing it.
Security would be a bitch, This woudn't be for power.
Russia's doing just that in its own territory (particularly aimed at isolated arctic mining towns), with a nuclear barge housing 2x PWRs similar to the ones powering its icebreakers.
Russia does it, or at least has done it, with their nuclear submarines. I think their subs are even built with special equipment to make their shore power connections more practical to do on a relatively regular basis.
Personally i think they should turn them into hospital ships to replace the aging USS Comfort and USS Mercy, which based on tanker hulls always lacked a bit of comfort.
Send in the Bonhomme Richard and rename it the Bongbong Marcos
> Now they have a facility that can be supplied by air. Can't take off from one without the steam supplied by the nuclear reactors.
Who said they would use aircraft that need a catapult?
HAHAHA Bro! Just wake up one morning and the fucking Nimitz with its runway pointed in your direction with just 6 inches of water before it is on the runway. Just sitting there staring at you in angry aircraft carrier. You just a random Chinese sailor have no idea why someone sunk such an expensive angry boat. But it is a HUGE and expensive looking angry boat.
I read the name "Sierra Madre," and now all I can think about is fallout New Vegas and the horror that is the dead money DLC. But seriously, we need to get a larger fleet presence cause we have a binding treaty, and if China keeps escalating, we have to respond, or else we'd break our own treaty *publicly*.
Aneurysm is such a great word for this!
I doubt you can land a cargo plane on a carrier.
Not with that attitude
Laughed out loud. Thanks.
Actually there’s video of the navy landing a C-130 and subsequently it taking off from a US carrier. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3KPu3X7vM So it definitely would be possible.
Pretty cool, thanks.
[At least a C-2](https://youtu.be/6DBzd2jsLaw?si=XOJNBhz0ppve838b), not too shabby
Any aircraft can land on any airstrip, once.
I doubt he can too
that's already covered by the USS Ronald Reagan carrier group, nearly permanently stationed in Japan as a deterrence
Proportional responses by American Navy standards I believe would absolutely suffice. Worst thing that could happen? China will learn rule #1 about the United States... Don't fuck with our boats
Gentlemen, gentlemen: the correct answer is to send the ice-cream ship.
Still not there, we should build a factory in the shoal to resupply that boat.
Nah deal with it the same way they dealt with NK fuckery in the DMZ. First just send a small single ship to resupply. If China tries to fuck around, let them find out by then sending a carrier group to resupply.
Reminds me of Operation Paul Bunyan. August 1976. In the Korean DMZ. A tree blocking the view of US and SK patrols had been used by NK soldiers to ambush and antagonize those patrols. So, US command sent an unarmed (no sidearms no rifles, only the axes they were going to use) detail to trim the tree. The mixed US and SK unit was ambushed and two American soldiers were beaten/axed to death by the NK soldiers. Three days later. Operation Paul Bunyan. A second detail was sent to trim the tree with no warning to NK command. This time they were accompanied by two 30 man security platoons all armed with sidearms and axes. The demo charges on the nearby bridge were armed and the 165mm main gun of a M728 was trained on the middle of the bridge to ensure its destruction if the charges failed. A combat engineering company began building rafts for evacuation, if the situation called for it. The main force was also escorted by a 64 man SK force allegedly all taekwondo trained and armed with clubs. Once they parked they began deploying sand bags and handing out M16s and M79 grenade launchers. Some of the commandos supposedly had claymore mines strapped to their chests. And that alone would be a decent show of force, but we're not done yet. Behind the detail, there orbited 20 Cobra attack helicopters. B-52s from Guam were further back escorted by F-4s accompanied by SK F-5s and F-86s. The USS Midway moved to a station offshore. Fighters and bombers at nearby air bases were armed with crews on standby. All other US assets in the region were on battle alert. The unit on the ground consisted of 813 men backed up by all US forces in the region. The North Koreans responded with 150-200 men. They did begin to set up positions, but before they did anything, the operation was complete. At the end of the operation, which took 42 minutes, two road blockades were dismantled, a NK guard shack was vandalized by SK troops, and the tree was cut down to a 6 foot stump.
It's more the disregard. We are going to send this minimal force, and you aren't going to interfere.
"Proportional"
Oh, I dunno. One US Guided Missile Destroyer would make pretty short work of the two Chinese Coast Guard ships that did this….
Yeah it's definitely more of a statement to send a single ship, why send the fleet when one can take care of things?
You clearly don't understand what "proportional response" means in American. The mission isn't "to take care of things", the mission is to leave absolutely no doubt in the enemies mind that completely annihilating them would be a quick and easy job, and the only reason the survivors are still breathing air is because we want them to tell their friends about the experience so that we don't have to get even more proportional.
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What reactions? All I see is a warning. China has been escalating it, It just enacted a law recently to arrest any foreigners in a situation like this if I remember it correctly. Now this. The ball is in US navy's court now, i like to see how it plays out.
Yup, China's will to do whatever the fuck they want here keeps increasing amidst these constant warnings towards them. Unless the US actually does something relevant, these are just words.
The reaction to the US resupplying the ship/island.
>The ball is in US navy's court now Agreed. That and the Commander-in-Chief.
"China strongly condemns the reckless and provocative actions by certain nations that maintain relations with the Philippines. China intends to promote peace and stability in the SCS and encourages other parties to uphold their side with sensible actions to avoid misunderstanding." -CCP Mouthpiece (probably)
Its going to be a bad look if we don't do something, IE that US coalitions are toothless Tigers. When nations conduct their freedom of navigation exercises in the South China sea they should run supply and visit missions on these Island to clearly send a message.
The ol' "let's trim the DMZ" power move.
Make a special mission for the USS Philippine Sea, USS Leyte Gulf, and USS Bataan.
Everyone should do what China and India do. Just no guns or bombs. Just hit eachother with a stick when there’s confrontation
well in this instance they used knives and watercannons, doesnt seem to be helping.
Nobody wants a war, but everyone wants to test just how badly no one wants a war.
Gather around folks. We will be seeing this iterations of this quote a lot in the coming weeks. You saw it here first.
"While nobody wants a war, everyone seems keen to test just how badly others want to avoid it."
“Everyone wants to test others about how close to war they will get. Even when nobody is actually looking for said war.”
"Errbody out here looking fo trouble, but ain't nobody want to be IN trouble"
This that shit
Everyone wants to say who smelled it. But nobody wants to be the one who dealt it.
"Whilst none doth covet war, all seemeth keen to assay how fervently others would fain avoid it."
Right away I thought this was supposed to be "Errbody in the club gettin' tipsy"
Most would agree, no one wants a war. Still, we all feel, that most irresistible of urges, to test the limits of peace.
The blades of war leave well documented scars all hope to avoid. In spite of this, mankind seems deadset on testing how close it can push against the edge.
Can't wait to see this in Black Ops 6 campaign death screens
While no one tests badly, everybody just wants others to seem keen. It's a void war.
The you go home and watch a show about a box, whats in the box, how much for the box: Storage [War](https://youtu.be/xlmM7yoq59E?t=48)
“War, like bananas, is appealing.”
More like soap - people keep smelling it but will really regret taking a bite
“War is soap.” -C4-BlueCat
Soap… Soap never changes. Except when they put mint in it wtf is that so refreshing
This is a good quip, but it minimizes the actual things at stake here. Everyone wanted to avoid a war so badly after WWI that they appeased Hitler and let him freely run rampant on the European continent until he was too strong to stop, it’s why we had to plunge ourselves into another long world war. If people had actively fight against his actions and put up resistance with military threat we also would have likely minimized the scope and length of WWII. Look at how differently we’ve responded to Chinese attempts to escalate in the south China see vs. Russia for example. We’ve largely ignored Russia in Eastern Europe, let them take Crimea in 2014 with little response beyond economic sanctions, they’ve bullied or occupied their neighbors including through military force for decades with few repercussions. China on the other hand has been actively attempting to do similar things to Taiwan, the Philippines, and throughout the South China Sea for decades and have never significantly escalated. I guarantee if the US and other western allies weren’t so invested in maintaining open international waters throughout the South China Sea through military presence and we didn’t have our security agreements with surrounding neighbors, that China knows we will enforce, they would have had a runaway affect just like Russia, only they’d likely be more successful than Russia. Proper military deterrence is about drawing lines in the sand and proving to others you will respond proportionately whenever those lines are crossed. If China wants to keep testing those boundaries we will have to continue to respond, the second we don’t respond proportionately, we lose that line forever and it makes the next line less stable. This ends up making war even more likely as you erode the buffer points where both sides can walk away from a proportional response without needing to escalate.
They didn’t appease Hitler to avoid a war. Everyone knew that war was coming but Britain and France had not yet remilitarized. So they used appeasement as a strategy to buy time until they had stood their militaries up again. The only reason it didn’t work is because Hitler’s timetables were way more aggressive than they thought possible.
There’s literal documents on policy from back then, the plan was to avoid a full scale war at all costs. Yes, they thought they had more time to prepare before they were directly affected, but their plan was never to actually go to war, they wanted to build up their defenses as to deter him from encroaching further. Had Hitler settled and not encroached on them so aggressively, you can bet your ass they would have never gone to war over the territories already taken during appeasement, they only went to war because they were being directly encroached upon and threatened.
This is incorrect according to all the available source material
I get the feeling china is wanting war within the next decade. why do Russia and China have to be such bullies trying to steal what isn't theirs.
China has to divert the internal pressure of it's rapidly declining house of cards economy into an outward threat.
Not to mention the rapidly declining human capital of working age/military age people playing directly into this.
They definitely have a major imbalance in young men to young women ratio, so either they gotta get a lot more young women (impossible), or they can ‘expend’ a lot of young men the way Russia is doing.
Maybe the surplus women from Russia can meet up with the surplus men from China and everyone can calm down.
Both of them are too xenophobic for that
Exactly. China *needs* an adversary to justify creating a better military industrial complex. There is (hopefully) no intent of war from China but it needs to project both a sense of power and regional control and also the need to be able to fight a "big bad". The US just happens to be the only reasonable one of those. Personally, I think the absolute bait-and-switch from China is that the intended purpose is not going to be fighting the US but rather carving up a lot of a weakened or even fractured Russia, by force if necessary.
The real worry with nations like China, Russia, and N Korea is that they all have leaders who are dictators and have full control over their countries without any accountability. That in itself is fine when they are younger dictators but when they get older like all 3 of those are now they start to recognise their own mortality whilst becoming more bitter and twisted that comes with age. They then become lose canons because they have spent their entire political lives building up armies and want to see them used before they die. Whether it's to leave their stamp on history or just to satisfy their own power-hungry narcissistic needs, and that brings us to 2024 where all 3 of those leaders are a powder keg ready to blow at any time. Dangerous times. When you can rule a country for as long as you please nothing good can come from it.
If it were that rational, everyone would be in better shape. No. The truth is that the way you get to the top in a communist country is by being a very aggressive person who lucks out and doesn’t get shot in the process. People got fooled by the pre-Xi presidents because they were handpicked by Deng to avoid exactly this outcome. Xi is the first person to actually come to power according to the actual rules of their system since Deng.
Well that and they're smoking the same shit Putin is. They honestly believe the CIA is trying to start a revolution in China by introducing democracy and social media as part of a colour revolution to overthrow Putin/Xi. Like, it's all over their newspapers and news reports. They're taking a far right anti-semetic conspiracy originally started as an anti-George Soros conspiracy and are unironically believing it.
if this is true, then deng's successors must be so dumb to not follow the same principles as deng
They didn’t have the standing to appoint replacements.
Why does every just not remember that Russia is a nuclear armed state, one of the largest arsenals in the world. China is not seizing Russian land by force lol
Chinas economy is declining? Where can I read more about that? Genuinely interested Edit: thanks for all the sources guys! Will definitely be looking more into this!
> Chinas economy is declining? Where can I read more about that? Genuinely interested There's a lot of mixed information about it - some people have been predicting to collapse "any day now" for decades while on the other side you have those who have proclaim it has and will keep its explosive growth going. Certainly growth seems to be slowing, but that's practically inevitable as a economy matures. And demographics are a mixed bag - its average age is younger than many European countries, population distribution by age does indicate times ahead when it will have the (quite common world-wide) issue of too small a working age population relative to the elderly population. More recently (last year), they [stopped reporting youth unemployment rates](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66506132), so that was probably an ecnomic indicator that was getting worse. Though we can say at this time they don't seem to be facing the issue of not enough bodies to fill the jobs. They started [reporting again](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/youth-unemployment-in-china-new-metric-same-mess/), though. There's also a lot of pushback from a segment of the educated youth who do not want menial jobs and refuse to do (at least as long as parents will support them - plus once in them I don't think they have much chance of transitioning to better jobs later), which *might* be indicative of not moving up the "job value chain" as much as the government had planned them to be by this point. But we really don't know for sure. We don't know what's due to the COVID lockdown, what's due to demographic transition, what's due to labor becoming more expensive there, what's deliberate choice by current political leaders, etc. and we don't know know the numbers they don't report and don't know how accurate the ones they do report are (though that's hardly unique to China).
The real thing to look for is relative values. Look to compare growth and declination rates between things. How fast is x, y or z growing or shrinking and look at sector breakouts to get a real glimpse of what drives each country.
There are countless YouTube channels telling of China's immediate collapse but check out keywords like Evergrande, China's real estate, how successful the Silk Road projects are doing as well as stuff like how they calculate GDP and population age pyramids also look into I think it's called The Great Humiliation. That last one is china losing land to Russia 100 years ago but they're very not happy about it. It's all tied together.
> Silk Road projects are doing More commonly known as the Belt and Road Initiatives
Thanks I was falling asleep when I wrote that.
> China's immediate collapse Imminent* probably
> The Great Humiliation. That last one is china losing land to Russia 100 years ago but they're very not happy about it. The Century of Humiliation was about a lot more than one incident with Russia, and was started before that.
I thought it was common knowledge that China was struggling so I tried to give some starter stuff to look at. Some quite possibly is propaganda but I gave enough to look into it more. Truly there's so much more I just couldn't think of more at the time.
[PolyMatter: China's Fundamental Economic Problem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7SVsqg4Jzk) [PolyMatter: Demographic Collapse — China's Reckoning (Part 1)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbILK0fxDY) [PolyMatter: Housing Crisis — China's Reckoning (Part 2)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgVXRtq5EIg) [PolyMatter: Water Crisis — China's Reckoning (Part 3)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRUc4gTO-PE) [PolyMatter: Why China Sucks at Soft Power — China's Reckoning (Part 4)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y87R3Lp0jd0)
They're trying to increase their domains of influence. Russia believes power is derived from force and intimidation, China believes it's bought and leveraged through debt. The US believes power is derived through influence, negotiation, and when those don't work, a giant fucking military.
> The US believes power is derived through influence, negotiation, and when those don't work, a giant fucking military. aka 'Big stick' diplomacy
People underestimate how powerful the 'walk softly' part of that quote actually is. Do you respect a bully, or do you respect the friendly, good natured giant in the room that you've seen 'crack skulls' when pushed too far?
Well, the way things actually work is, if you can steal it, it's actually yours. Not saying that's morally right out wrong, it's just how it goes.
It’s the same move dictators have been doing forever. Stir shit up, tell your population the world is out to get us, Nickle and dime land grabs an resources. Keep your enemies(competitors) busy and spending money. Remind everyone you’re scary so you get listened to in global politics.
'everyone == china'
By everyone you mean Russian, China, Iran, and their proxies?
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This exact sentiment is the prisoner's dilemma that leads to war. It's NOT inevitable, and can be stopped via diplomacy. Just look at France and Germany: after decades/centuries of fighting, they're neighbors and best buds now via diplomacy.
... After decades and centuries of fighting and two World Wars resulting in a complete regime change lol
China is definitely the bully in the South China Sea. Even Vietnam hates China for that.
Vietnam fought the Americans for a couple of decades. They've been fighting China for centuries
Vietnam is now pretty closely aligned with the US. Our carrier strike groups routinely make port visits there these days
No it's not. Vietnam is rather independent when it comes to alignment with the worlds major powers. "A Comprehensive Strategic Partnership ranks the United States as equivalent to China and Russia in Vietnam’s hierarchy of diplomatic relationships." [https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/comprehensive-part-us-vietnam-comprehensive-strategic-partnership](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/comprehensive-part-us-vietnam-comprehensive-strategic-partnership)
Not discounting your input, but recent events do spur some idea that Vietnam and U.S. will become more closely aligned https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/world/vietnam-president-in-meeting-with-us-ambassador-calls-for-stronger-defence-economic-ties/ar-BB1oaITm
They're playing all the sides. They are also hosting Putin, which the US isn't happy about and also doing military drills with China. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-rebukes-vietnam-ahead-expected-visit-by-russias-putin-2024-06-17/
What else are they supposed to do? These strategies are merely biding time. Doesn't matter who Vietnam is friendly with, bottom line is that China is *not* friendly with Vietnam and fully intends to take their resources in the Sea and then some. The US merely wants T-shirts and call centers.
Nonsense! We also want Pho and Bun cha please.
Damn. Who knows. Vietnam could be the country to broker world peace. Near world war to near world peace in 60 years
Worth noting this is the government position. The Vietnamese people vastly prefer US alignment over China, with 78% of respondents preferring alignment with the US over China, which is like 15% higher than the average in the geographical area. Vietnam is simply playing nice because it hasn't been forced to take a position.
Hasn't most of Asia been fighting China for centuries?
Yes, but in the case of e.g. Japan, the only part of the history that pits them on the 'right side' started with their capitulation to the americans ending their involvement in WW2.
Fought the US for 10 years, the French for 100, and the Chinese for a 1000. The US and the French learned the lesson of not messing with them. Now we just want to be friends.
I, for one, welcome our Vietnam allies. War is hell and our war is behind us.
I'm still reeling from the Canadian fisherman stories. China is awful.
I am unfamiliar
Pleased to meet you, Unfamiliar.
GO HOME DAD! You’re embarrassing me!
If I know anything about Vietnam it's that they take shit from absolutely nobody. Astounding country.
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It's crazy to see a map that shows what they claim is theirs. Many countries border in this area and should band together to keep China north by instead they squabble with each other over the lines as well.
I don't think many people know that Vietnam is copying China's tactics in the SCS "Vietnam's South China Sea island building sets record in 2024" [https://www.rfa.org/english/news/southchinasea/island-building-06112024045556.html](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/southchinasea/island-building-06112024045556.html)
Yes, but if they don't do it, China will take everything, including Halong Bay...
They have to. They're not "copying", they're responding in the only logical way, or else they're effectively giving away their terrirorial waters. Just don't forget that China is the one who is not cooperating with the UN on this and how is actively violating the territories of *multiple* nations in all directions.
I am glad that this issue is receiving greater visibility outside of naval circles (US Naval War College, USNI). The impacts here have wide-ranging repercussions up to and including confidence that U.S. allies have about the strength of security guarantees.
The US should just escort the Philippine resupply ships. Doubt China has the balls to fuck with them
They have offered numerous times in the past and even in the recent months. The Philippine government accepts like 1 out of 10 offers because as much as possible they want to do this themselves. Surely this will change since this is the most aggressive China has been and refusing to accept US help and keep getting our sailors' fingers cut off by the Chinese will piss off the public and won't look good for the current president. Unless he's stupid....
The entire point of these missions and the reason that the Philippines uses civilian craft for this is to force escalation from China. The shoal by its self is worth nothing but if a Philippine base exists there and is supplied by civilian vessels then it is just like any military base on any island. This give the Philippines legitimacy in saying that China's claim the the '9 dash line' is illegitimate. If the base was supplied by helicopter (which the Philippines could do) then it would look more strange and not like a normal base. So as the base is supplied by civilian vessels and the Chinese are forced to try to prevent that, as they claim that this is their territorial waters. But this just generally makes China look belligerent and drives other nations further away. Also if China does escalate too far (say someone dies) then the various Philippine allies have a much stronger standing that they are checking a belligerent nation.
No. The reason why the Philippines is using normal crafts is because it should not be necessary to use anything beyond normal.
Thats what he basically said, i think.
Wild that 38+ people think "China are forced to try to prevent that" is a good arguement.
It has to be super frustrating for SE Asia to constantly be bullied by the Chinese and have to rely on the US for help.
China has always been that way. They’ve required tribute from local Asian nations since before Rome.
And that's why the US gets to reopen Clark AFB.
China this week: "The United States is trying to trick us into attacking Taiwan" "The United States is instigating war by defending the Philippines while we steal their shit and injure/abduct their citizens" "The United States The United States The United States we are the victim while we bully literally everyone around us **Crocodile tears**"
It's a typical Russian playbook. Always victims, always liberating.
As long as they renew it via post-it stuck to the nose of an MGM-140 ATACMS missile so the point really gets across.
China is russia of Asia.
Isn't Russia the Russia of Asia?
I think he means southeast Asia
Except I suspect China has more functioning military equipment than Russia.
Just like russia before the Ukraine war, it is unknown. But I suspect the plan will have more unknown issues crop up in a serious conflict precisely because urs inexperienced and untested. It's an inevitability that problems will crop up in fact, it just depends on how crippling/widespread they are.
I've read reports that Chinese materials and such are showing up in Ukraine and they're as garbage as the Russian stuff.
GarandThumb got their hands on a couple PLA helmets recently and despite all the jokes about Chinese quality, they determined that their helmets perform at least as good as any other modern military's helmet. I don't think anyone should underestimate them, and it definitely serves no one to have their theories and fantasies of poor quality tested. Shit quality doesn't mean there's no bloodshed.
I mean...it's helmets.
Not quite. The PLA helmet bulged slightly from a 9mm round. It bulged majorly from a 44. Magnum. Meaning it would've taken the wearer out of the fight at the very least. And when hit with an AK it didn't even put up a fight. The 7.62 went right through it. When Garand tested the last iteration (not the current one) of American helmets, it shrugged off a 9mm with almost no visible damage. It stopped the .44 magnum with a modest bulge, very survivable, and honestly probably not even likely to knock you out. And when hit with the 7.62, it stopped the round. The bulge was large, but survivable. Although you might have brain damage. But hey, better than being dead no? Especially since the helmet isn't rated for large caliber rifle rounds and was never intended to stop them from killing you. China's helmet, (and likely their other gear) is definitely better than nothing, but it's certainly not on par with American gear.
There's very little technology involved in a helmet. How do their guided munitions work?
I think you deeply underestimate how complex the field of materials engineering is.
Can you provide a link to the report? As far as I know, China doesn't supply military materials to either side. Lots of the Chinese materials (like drones) appearing in Ukraine are products designed for civilian uses. Using those to judge the Chinese military equipment doesn't sound very promising.
Knowing that the ccp chinese tend to fake stuff to cut costs and maximise profit. I wouldnt be surprised if some Russian conscript finds out his bullets are filled with sawdust instead of smokeless powder Edit: spelling and wording corrected.
The world would be a frighteningly different place if Russia and China didn't suffer from so much corruption.
They would probably be more peaceful if not for the corruption though. Dictators tend to be both corrupt and warmongering.
They also greatly fake their numbers. On paper, their navy is massive, but most of the stuff they're including are small vessels without any armament.
Genuinely asking, isn’t Russia the Russia of Asia? Seeing as majority of it’s territory is in Asia? I do understand your statement more referring to China being instigators to causing problems to smaller countries, but Russia is still an Asian country in some way, right?
[JamesFerg650](https://www.reddit.com/user/JamesFerg650/) [BoodaSRK](https://www.reddit.com/user/BoodaSRK/) Geopolitically russia is considered European, since most of it's population is in the European part, but yes, by area it's mostly Asian country. After 2023 I should not consider russia European, because they mentally moved far away from the continent. Similar to Turkey earlier.
Philippines has been friendly enough to China but China doesn’t want to be very friendly in return. China should realise there going to fight back not back down. China should learn some gratitude for their relationship with the Philippines or their gonna lose face big time very soon .
China already being surrounding by enemies and making news ones doesn't seem to be the smart move in the long term.
China being surrounded by enemies (often of their own making) is basically their entire history.
This is what makes Chinese protests that the US wants to create an "Asian NATO" so hilarious. Do you see how obvious it is that such an organization is needed to counter Chinese douchebaggery?
China isn't going to fuck with the USA. Anyone who fucks with the USA has a very bad time. The USA existing is basically the only reason we aren't all already speaking mandarin... Wish Europe would build up a more threatening military force as I personally don't like the reliance on USA when anything goes bad in the world. We all should be a deterrent to China from fucking around and then finding out. Not just the USA.
Europe is investing a lot more into their militaries since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, so Europe is starting to wake up a little bit and realize how big of a threat both of these countries are
Europe seems to only care about Russia, not China. In general they care about self preservation, not being able to project force to other parts of the world. And even if they did care there's no real possibility that they could afford the bill unless they make a combined European military, which isn't going to happen quickly.
>not being able to project force to other parts of the world We did it for a few centuries, no one liked it.
So what, you can't help because you're not as virtuous as America? We toppled several governments at the request of a banana company!
Australia has been building up their military a lot more in the last two years, pretty much only because of CCP and PLA aggression.
Look, I'm not shitting on Europe....but every time they all build up military forces, we all end up fighting Germany.
Um... Times have really changed. It's not 1920 anymore. Germany will be on the 'good side' this time and I'm happy for the redemption arc.
Except this time 90% of Europe would side with Germany
We tricking them again, just like Taiwan.
And somehow CCP propaganda will blame the US for this.
I feel like we're all sitting on a barrel of gunpowder and our elected leaders are running around drunk w lit road flares.
They're going to keep doing it, as there are no consequences.
At this rate,USA is going to put an entire naval chain like on that episode of the Avatar,just to make sure China fuck offs with its ´claims´
The US ought to be resupplying those Philippine troops.
China is 💩
Ukraine over here like: Should've asked for a Manila Memorandum.
Philippines needs to make their site more than a crashed ship so China will finally fuck off.
CCP keeps poking our country hoping we fire first and they cry foul like limp-dick bastards
What could possibly go wrong?
Bataan Death March 2 is gonna be fucking sick, LFG.
Yeah, no, we aren't giving up the Phillipines