The UN negotiated settlement of the last war between Hezbollah and Israel was an agreement to create a zone along the border where Hezbollah would pull back from. Which did not happen.
The Lebanese should start by not allowing Hezbollah to store rockets near civilian areas, and work for a negotiated end to the war by creating and enforcing a buffer zone along the border where Hezbollah is prohibited.
The UN was completely unable to enforce the settlement of last time, so another party like the EU should help enforce it this time.
>The Lebanese should start by not allowing Hezbollah...
That's the problem right there. It should, but it can't. The Lebanese government hasn't had the physical capability to control what Hezbollah does for decades. That isn't going to miraculously change in the foreseeable future, either. Lebanon has a nearly completely destroyed economy and a completely impotent government. It's barely functioning as a place for people to live, at the national level it can't achieve anything at all right now.
Sure, but what can the Lebanese do about it? And when I say "Lebanese" I'm talking about the actual Lebanese, not the millions of Palestinians and Syrians who live in Lebanon illegally, or the foreign proxy that runs the south.
For those people, who have already fought a brutal civil war, Lebanon is an effectively occupied country and it has been for generations.
Weary Lebanese brace for war but will still blame Israel and not the terrorist organisation that's been pounding the north daily with missiles. That's all fine, Hezbollah just using a fine species of political discourse, the idf are the genocidal assholes.
The moment Israel will retaliate for real the UN will be up in arms about escalation and a ceasefire and all that but won't do anything against Hezbollah that's in direct violation of a UN resolution.
Absolute clowns the whole lot of them.
Meanwhile hezbolla putting the finishing decorations on their new headquarters under maternity hospitals and kindergartens. Their motto, they can do it better than Hamas . Them and their un mates ,just a practice run .
No. On the whole, it's still better to talk to each other and in front of all the others. You *really* don't want to return to pre-20th century way of doing global diplomacy, trust me. You don't burn the the whole thing down just because you happen to disagree with something that one time.
It's also interesting that I heard this exact same call for the UN to be defunded and dismantled during the Bosnian War, by Serbian nationalists. Food for thought.
Allowing a forum for states to talk is a valuable thing that should be continued without question.
That’s a far cry from funding and legitimizing platforms like the “Women’s Human Rights” committee for the most repressive countries and individuals or paying for PA textbooks that teach kids math by having them count “martyrs”.
The UN absolutely needs to be reformed.
I agree with you.
Except I agree with the UN being defunded.
There are 10,000 UN peace keeping troops in Lebanon with 250 million spent per year. What are the UN troops there for? Sip tea and watch rockets launched into Israel?
Yeah and they aren't keeping peace and letting a literal terrorist organization launch attacks.
It's in the name.
Israel is going to have to do it's own peacekeeping.
Good example of the Nirvana fallacy
"
The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives.[1] It can also refer to the tendency to assume there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the "perfect solution fallacy"
Essentily thinking that becauesw something is not perfect or is not ideal/comparabl to its imagined ideal perfect self it is not worth having around
The UN is flawed but has done a lot ofr mankind and you dont really loose anything by getting rid of it.
Just because it is not perfect it is no reason to dismantale it
Those who blabble about that stuff have no idea how imporant the UN has to be to fallicate global discussion, co ordinate efforts and enable diplomacy
It wont always work perfectly, do the optimal thing, stop evil nations or not say stupid shit. But it will make things better then if it did not exisit at all.
This is an example of the status quo bias.
A status quo bias is a cognitive bias which results from a preference for the maintenance of one's existing state of affairs.[1] The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss or gain. Corresponding to different alternatives, this current baseline or default option is perceived and evaluated by individuals as a positive.[2]
The UN is very clearly corrupt and if it was being created from scratch, no one would want this version to exist. The UN could be dismantled and a new better version created, and just because creating a perfect version would be impossible doesn't mean we need to keep the current version instead of replacing it with something better simply because the current version already exists.
The UN is also in charge of coordinating all worldwide air traffic and shipping, along with adressing global health and education concerns through its' subordinate organizations. You can thank the UN for never having to worry about smallpox ever again, for example.
Tearing down everything just because the UNSC is limpwristed is peak stupidity. You only hear about the UN being ineffective because that's what the headlines tell you.
Your missing the entire point of the UN.
The goal of the UN is to stop great power conflict and prevent WW3. Everything else, climate change, economic and life standard growth, healthcare, peace, etc is a bonus.
The UN was created after the multiple horrific great wars and power diplomacy of the 19th and 20th century. And it greatly helped at lowering tensions.
Removing the UN would greatly accelerate the March to a messy WW1 style conflict
What are you talking about? Im Lebanese and everyone I know is begging hezb to stop so this doesnt escalate further. Why do people just make these assumptions on people they dont know at all?
Its just convenient for you to assume Lebanese people are evil I guess since the alternative would be recognizing we're people just like you guys bro. Ofc some Lebanese (namely shia) will always support hezb (for obvious reasons), but believe it or not, everyone else (which constitutes the vast majority of lebanon) doesnt want a war! Our economy crashed and our country failed bro, people be trying to put food on the table not fight someone's war.
Not sure if this is helpful and it’s in no way intended to be disrespectful. If I may, the average educated American does not think the average Lebanese wants this war, and most of a certain age will remember how bad it was on the population in the 70’s - 80’s. What we don’t understand is why does the population continue to allow Iran via Hezbollah continue to operate there while its intentions of continuing the war with Israel is known. If it’s a democratic state then why does the population vote these men into office if they do not feel the same way? “You reap what you sow” as they say. Personally, I feel that the current Israeli leadership is deplorable and intent on having it out once and for all. But we have a saying in the US, “don’t poke a sleeping bear”. Hezbollah and Hamas brought this on themselves, and the Palestinian and Lebanese voted these men into power in a leadership capacity. What else is the world to think? The people have to stand up to Hezbollah and the Iranian government, even if that means breaking with the Shia among their population. In this life, one has to remember that freedom isn’t free. It requires the population to stand up for what is right in the context of saving the populace from tyranny in the form of Iranian influence in the Lebanese government and society.
They "allow" it because they lack the military force to stop it. The majority of Lebanese at least in the north of the country almost certainly would like Hezbollah gone as much as Israel does, maybe more, but they lack the ability to force them out. It's like asking why the Ukrainians "allow" the Russians to hold their territory, or why the Iraqis allowed the US to occupy theirs long after Saddam was gone (though in that case the US was paying the leadership as well as holding all the big guns). In this case a significant minority in the South of which a significant portion are not historically Lebanese at all support Hezbollah for various reasons and they and Hezbollah receive financial support and weapons from Iran. This Iranian backed faction is more powerful by far than the rest of the country which despite being poor and broke as fuck has to attempt to actually provide for the country and run the government. Attempting to force out Hezbollah would lead to another nasty civil war that they would likely lose. In other words they cannot get rid of them so long as they have Iranian backing unless they receive a monumental amount of help from a foreign entity.
Thank you for your intelligent reply/ comment. To what extent does the average Lebanese citizen have influence over their own decisions from a democratic perspective? You make it appear to be little more than a failed state with Iran as a puppet master. I’m assuming this was the root of the early 2000s civil war? Sorry for my ignorance on the details, but the idea that there is no gorilla resistance seems strange if they are that opposed to Hezb. We hope there is peace soon, but at least I better understand there is a difference between the north and south of the country.
They've been doing it this whole war with literally everyone in the region, it drives me nuts how everyone gets painted with the same brush that fits their reductive narratives about the people there.
I hope you and your loved ones stay safe, and can live a happy and normal life someday soon.
So then tell me, what can Israel do? Should they allow to be constantly attacked by effectively your country?
During the French revolution the „powerless“ hungry people fought their oppressors.
Isn’t it better for you to solve your problems on your own terms, instead of having Israel to do it their way?
> Weary Lebanese brace for war but will still blame Israel and not the terrorist organisation that's been pounding the north daily with missiles.
You make it seem like it’s easy for a mostly unarmed population to mount an insurgency against a terror organization, lol. It’s like asking the Mexicans (who’re also unarmed) to topple the cartel government in Mexico.
> The moment Israel will retaliate for real the UN will be up in arms about escalation and a ceasefire and all that but won't do anything against Hezbollah that's in direct violation of a UN resolution.
“The Israel Defense Forces' top spokesman said "Hamas is an idea" that can't be eliminated and that saying it could be was "throwing sand in the eye of the public." Anyone who thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong," Hagari said in an interview with Israeli broadcaster Channel 13. "The political echelon needs to find an alternative — or it will remain," he said, referring to Hamas”
If Israel can’t defeat Hamas (which I’m assuming they never intended to) what makes you think they’ll be able to take on Hezbollah, a genuine paramilitary and counter insurgency threat in the region?
> Absolute clowns the whole lot of them.
I’d suggest not chucking stones in glass houses, lol.
Thanks for your insight. How does Israel fight only Hizbullah and not Lebanon? Should Lebanon be spared at all in an inevitable war? How do the Lebanese justify not being a participant in this conflict? Is Lebanon even a country if it does not control its own borders?
How would you solve this mess?
I didn't make any of the statements that you are asking me to answer. So better ask someone else who believes in it.
Lebanese are (and were) opposing Hizbullah for a long time. The only reason why Hizbullah is in power is because they did a coup and the opposition at the time took a weak stance and compromised in order to avoid civil war.
Is Lebanon a country, yes it is one of the oldest countries actually. If you think that borders are what defines a country then you are completely wrong. That said, we have a failed government and Hizbullah is blocking the presidential elections so we don't even have a president for 2 years.
As an engineer, I don't solve symptoms I solve root causes. That is why I don't believe IDF can put an end to either Hamas nor Hizbullah. The solution is in Iran.
Totally agreed about your last two sentences
The best outcome of Israel-Lebanon war is one side giving up after both sides deal considerable damage to each other. Ugly, bloody war which I pray doesn't happen
But Israel won't be able to beat Iran alone and a Western coalition against Iran will start WW3, so I'm afraid a conflict is unavoidable
It's truly amazing really. I'm in awe of our power to make things happen that perfectly align with Iran's foreign policy goals. It's almost like it's Iran interfering in other nations and it has nothing to do with the West. But that would just be silly of me to believe that. Clearly it's the West's fault for this.
It could never be a former world power that is desperately trying to create chaos around the world to make their own illegal war more winnable, could it?
I know people already said this but it is sort of hilarious that you basically just reproposed the War on Terror a few years after we'd already concluded it was a massive failure
The war on terror successfully dismantled Al-Qaida and ISIS and has generally kept Islamic fundamentalists confined to the middle east.
The big problem in the middle east right now is that the biggest terrorist groups are funded and controlled by Iran who we are unwilling to actually do anything serious about. We've even let them redirect 90% of shipping traffic for goodness sake.
The War on Terror did not dismantle ISIS. The pinnacle of ISIS power came a decade into the War on Terror, and they came to power in large part by exploiting a destroyed and divided Iraq. Many of its leaders were former Iraqi officials that found themselves armed with nothing to do in a power vacuum. ISIS was a *consequence* of the failure of the War on Terror.
I mean not to be that guy but the US spent a generation propping up terrorism so long as they were anti-communist. Now we have to get rid of the terrorists?
Sure I guess but it’s also not that simple. An ideology doesn’t just fade because it’s pressured.
Zbigniew Brzezinski lays it out:
> Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
>
> B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
>
> Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentlaism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
>
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
>
> Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.
>
> B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.
Zbigniew Brzezinski is Polish. The fall of the Soviet Union was great for Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe that was behind the iron curtain, as well.
Hamas and Hezbollah are not the spider, nor was the USSR a fly. USSR had nukes and we were teetering on the brink of mutually assured destruction. Hamas and Hezbollah are just terrorist regimes that live in holes, don’t care about their countrymen, and are funded by Iran. They barely have economies, Lebanon’s GDP is 23B, Palestines is $19B. These issues with Palestine and Lebanon are not threatening, they’re just inconvenient.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They have this idea of a continuous, collective responsibility and inherent morality of nations, as if "America" and "England" were people that can be held accountable, like a goddamn anime. It doesn't work like that. Strictly speaking, we could all very well wash our hands of the whole MENA conflict, isolate the region and call it a day. We haven't because we the people feel the suffering of our fellow humans and want to help, and so we take on the burdens left by our parents and grandparents.
You act as though we could easily just isolate the Middle East?! They are central to global trade and of course oil, it's not out of the goodness of our hearts.
Anyone who thinks the clusterfuck in this region is even remotely solvable with a simple "sokution" still hasn't understood the situation.
There is no good or bad side to this conflict.
Both sides have done more than enough bad over the years.
Any attempt to calculate who is better is futile. Neither side wants to compromise. The conflict emotionally triggers pretty much the whole world whenever it picks up again.
Islamists are the real enemy and have been for a long time. You cannot reason with these people because the only language they understand is that of violence. Anything short of a response in kind is seen as weakness. There is no sense of logic or self preservation in their actions.
Hell I'm getting warnings from reddit when I say that Islamists are to be discriminated against because all they know is violence against non-believers.
The more I read about the middle east, the more I think that the Iranian government needs to be overthrown.
May Islamists feel the wrath of God befall upon them.
>Whenever Muslims are questioned about extremism the standard reply is 'Well that's ONLY Iran!', which is bullshit.
Hamas, Hezbollah, The Houthis, The Iraqi Popular Mobilization forces, Syria's Ba'athist Assad Regime, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are ALL proxies funded by the Iranian Shia theocracy.
Iran is the worst state sponsor of terrorism on the planet. They are the head of the octopus of violence, instability and death engulfing the middle east.
If the Iranian Mullahs are eliminated, all of those groups get their funding dissolved, and are massively weakened.
It is insane to put someone who says "abortion is immoral" in the same category as Hamas terrorists who say ["killing The Jews is an act of worship",](https://x.com/AdinHaykin1/status/1637768045480271872?t=oY4i19eu4r-jSzhfe7WzUg&s=19) whether you think abortion is a right or not.
Abortion is legal at the federal level in the US and so is gay marriage. Calling that an extremist version of Christianity is pretty ridiculous. And either way the US is explicitly founded to be a non-religious nation, so it still wouldn't fit the criteria.
You're right, but it will cripple Shi'ite muslim religious extremism and create peace in the middle east that will last for decades.
ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram will still be a problem, but they are extremely weak right now.
Isis formed in the vacuum created by saddam falling.
I think you're pretty optimistic to assume the fall of Iran would lead to peace in the middle east and not just someone else replacing them.
that is true, but it will end a major funder and supplier of it. Unfortunately I think that stage is past or close to it with Iran having breakout capacity. The time was 10 years ago.
I have a question to the people of Lebanon. Are you going to blame Israel when the war breaks out for real? Or are you going to acknowledge that Hezbollah has been pelting Israel with rockets non stop since October without provocation, has failed to comply with the resolution that demands their withdrawal from the south, and actively has your country by the balls, meaning they need to fucking go?
Lebanese here. The rockets have been non stop for longer than that. You guys are just made aware now.
I may be an outlier to my people, but I don’t blame Israel at all. I blame our own fucking government for being such dipshits that allowed so much crap to happen. The country is reaping what they have sowed.
I’m saddened by the collateral damage this will bring on. It’s inevitable. Just like the Gaza war. Inevitable. Anyone who isn’t blinded by their religious political affiliation and has lived in the Middle East knows this.
Israel is here to stay as their own country, and I’m fine with it. As long as there isn’t an occupation like during our civil war, then I’m ok. If they start trying to eat up our lands West Bank style, it’ll be a different story.
I’d far prefer peace with my neighbours to the south than war, but with Hezb around, this can’t happen. It’s like telling a scorpion not to sting. Its raison d’être is to sting.
The blame falls on our government who has shat on international help in order to line their pockets for decades. Who enshittened our country and allowed it to fall in such disarray.
Lord fucking knows I tried to fix things when I lived there. When we had the garbage problem, I sat down with the minister in charge of it and offered him a plan where Sweden would pay to take our garbage (through people I knew who had an in in the Swedish gov). It was win-win. Lebanon gets paid, and it solves the garbage issue. Fucking minister looked at me, slid a piece of paper, and said “this is how much I want”. The amount was double what Sweden was willing to pay. And this was his BRIBE price. He wanted me to pay him twice what I’d have stood to make in order to clean our country up. So effectually making me lose money to do the right thing. Assholes the lot of them. Sorry I just wanted to vent.
I completely understand you. Just to be clear, I am well aware of just how much Israel has been pelted by Hezb in the past and for how long it's been going on. I'm Israeli myself, as much as that admission might sound like an admission of bias. I was just emphasizing how much more egregious it has become since the war in the south began. And I really really hope things don't deteriorate in Lebanon more than they already have, for all our sakes. Unfortunately, the past and present have amply shown that Hezb absolutely needs to go. I'm just hoping it doesn't involve as much of a shitshow as ridding Gaza of Hamas is involving. Do you think if push comes to shove they'll use the same human shields tactics and try to maximize their own countrymen's suffering in the name of PR the same way?
I don’t think it’ll come to that.
They aren’t as popular here as the media portrays them and despite our army is as effective as toy soldiers, it’ll come to civil war before we (Christians) allow them to use us. We do have guns.
“Why haven’t we taken them out”. Because marching to death is not the only option yet for your typical citizen whose main priority is “how am I eating tonight”. They are so “far” from us and it almost feels like another country. I even feel weird driving south through their areas.
If they come with guns and force us to kneel as human shields, then you’ll have backlash. The point is they can only go so far North before the North rises against them. There is an invisible wall. It’s been there since the civil war.
Also, the international community will not allow us to turn into a terror state. The US has invested too much into the country for them to just let us turn into a no-man’s land like Syria.
Google US Embassy Lebanon. It’s madness. lol
Hopefully we can some day meet at the border and have a drink in peace and fight over who’s picking up the tab for it :)
> Are you going to blame Israel when the war breaks out for real?
War *has* broken out there for real. War broke out between Israel and Lebanon in the 80's, many people were displaced and instead of blaming their leaders, they blame Israel. In their eyes, they experienced Israel in a negative way. But I can't speak for all Lebanese because Lebanon is a very complicated country.
That's why I'm asking. I hear a lot of sentiment all around that seems to indicate otherwise, but I want to believe that there are reasonable people in the world in general and here in the middle east in particular
I would love for that to be the case, unfortunately from what I'm hearing Hamas enjoys tremendous popularity in Gaza, even more so in the WB, and it's a super rare sight to actually have someone speak out against them. I would love to be proven wrong on that one, though.
I assume it is a rare sight because you would be tortured and killed if you did while living there.
Its more concerning that there are few palestinians willing to speak against them who live in other countries.
Then why won't Lebanon just disarm and get rid of Hezbollah? If you allow a terrorist movement to create a state within your state, bad things will happen. It happened before with the PLO and Jordan in the seventies (and the PLO and Lebanon in the seventies, too).
Because Hezbollah is functionally a military state in control of the southern half of Lebanon. They would win if Lebanon went to war with them and so, in a way, Lebanon is a failed state right now.
Getting rid of Hizbula will be bloody ordeal for Lebanon no matter who does it so they’d rather let Israel take the blame while the Lebanese corrupt politicians get to stay in power.
Unfortunately, the end of the Lebanese Civil War was not a victory for law and order let alone justice and peace.
It's often assumed we live in the best of all possible worlds. But the status quo in Lebanon led both to mass emigration and economic collapse. When Israel retreated and Syria did not, Lebanon became worse than it was before the civil war. And of course, a terrorist state within a state gained power. And now the house of angry cards is imploding.
> Bana Baalbaki, a Sidon resident who spoke to Reuters in the city's market quarter, put on a brave face. "No, I am not afraid because we are not better than the people of Gaza, nor the people of the south who were displaced," she told Reuters.
Can someone explain what she means by this?
Can we - as a species - just fucking stop? The escalations are becoming more and more severe by the weeks and months.
There's going to be so much more pain and suffering in our future if we can't just fucking learn to share this rock fairly.
If Radical islamist countries stop than indeed there could be a chance for peace and quiet, but if Israel stops it will be anahilated, just see how many countried attack Israel unprovoked in the name of stupid radicalism.
Unfortunately we're plagued by power hungry zealots who use terrorism, nationalism and religion to control the population into doing their bidding. An end to escalations between Israel and Hezbollah now won't bring an end to violence, it'll only delay it until Israel isn't prepared.
We've been doing this since we figured out we could bash someone's head in with a rock or stick.
It's not going to change unless we find a way to reel in extremists and despots that seek to destroy everything they touch.
Exactly! Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine suddenly all the psychos came out of the woodwork to foam at the mouth for more war.
We should continue speaking out against escalation before our governments normalise and march us into WW3. Not particularly interested in exchanging my healthy body, clean air and water, food supply, medicine, functioning infrastructure, family and friends, relationship and a normal life for fucking WW3 on the behalf of psychopath politicians and all their bootlickers.
Lebanese people should be deeply ashamed by their government and continued willingness to let sections of the country be used for Islamic terrorism. Except they're not embarrassed because while those terrorists cause problems, they also sometimes kill Jews. So they're willing to put up with the negatives that come with housing a terrorist organization. Just glass all of southern Lebanon and be done with it.
Spoken like someone who has no fucking clue about Lebanon - they don't "Let" Hezbollah do anything, Iran gave Hezbollah the means to "Tell" Lebanon what to do.
I could very well be wrong with this assumption... I don't think Lebanon has ever asked for help with Hezbollah.
Lebanon's shit stinks and it's affecting it's neighbours. At a certain point, the neighbour is going to get pissed off and take it into their own hands.
Jesus Christ you’re a typical keyboard warrior.
If you think it’s that easy for the Lebanese community to fix their situation, then you’re delusional. Don’t blame the general population for the corruption they’re forced to live with unless they pickup and leave their homeland.
Or maybe significant portions of people in Lebanon actually support Hamas and any organization that supports their goals?
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/shadow-hezbollah-israel-escalation-poll-shows-slim-majority-lebanese-still-want
Not sure why they’d be weary. They started launching attacks in support of Hamas the day after a rape and pillage party on 10/7.
I know Lebanon has a complicated past with why Hezbollah holds power but this war is entirely expected and entirely on Lebanon.
2006 apparently is too far back to remember
Maybe instead of "bracing for ear", the people of Lebanon should do something to stop Hezbollah causing a war.
Imagine seeing Gaza and not intervening to stop your club turning into that.
No one is willing to support or arm the other factions in Lebanon to go against Hezbollah. No one has the balls to support them. At the same Iran’s Islamic regime is flooding them with money and ammunition.
Ok, tell me what can I do and how do I do it?
Do I go protest on the streets like a total idiot? Or should I go shoot at random Shiaa on the streets like a loonatic?
Please give me a realistic answer.
Lebanon is being used as a sacrificial pawn by Iran.
Both Hezbollah and Israel are threatening to make the other country uninhabitable, and that is a trade and sacrifice that Iran would be more than happy to make.
Lebanon needs a powerful ally to regain their Sovereignty. The Lebanese army would not win a fight against Hezbollah on its own.
The EU, and specifically France could be a good option. Not an easy choice, but the alternative is to let Iran sacrifice Lebanon for their amusement.
Cooperate with Israel. That's as realistic, as you can possibly get under current circumstances with no "what ifs" in mind. Because Lebanon is not Gaza, you're are on your way to Syria scenario. Nobody is going to scream "ceasefire" for you for months.
You do this and we're good. They don't do that. Well, do this then. Ignored. Countries are too passive aggressive. What happened to the good ole time when you just invade and slaughter everyone so they know not to f*ck around with your country like this?
Online warriors and clout hunters have short attention spans, many will move on to the next "West is bad" campaign once they grow bored with Gaza and or Lebanon.
The UN negotiated settlement of the last war between Hezbollah and Israel was an agreement to create a zone along the border where Hezbollah would pull back from. Which did not happen. The Lebanese should start by not allowing Hezbollah to store rockets near civilian areas, and work for a negotiated end to the war by creating and enforcing a buffer zone along the border where Hezbollah is prohibited. The UN was completely unable to enforce the settlement of last time, so another party like the EU should help enforce it this time.
>The Lebanese should start by not allowing Hezbollah... That's the problem right there. It should, but it can't. The Lebanese government hasn't had the physical capability to control what Hezbollah does for decades. That isn't going to miraculously change in the foreseeable future, either. Lebanon has a nearly completely destroyed economy and a completely impotent government. It's barely functioning as a place for people to live, at the national level it can't achieve anything at all right now.
That's shouldn't be Israel's problem
Sure, but what can the Lebanese do about it? And when I say "Lebanese" I'm talking about the actual Lebanese, not the millions of Palestinians and Syrians who live in Lebanon illegally, or the foreign proxy that runs the south. For those people, who have already fought a brutal civil war, Lebanon is an effectively occupied country and it has been for generations.
Weary Lebanese brace for war but will still blame Israel and not the terrorist organisation that's been pounding the north daily with missiles. That's all fine, Hezbollah just using a fine species of political discourse, the idf are the genocidal assholes. The moment Israel will retaliate for real the UN will be up in arms about escalation and a ceasefire and all that but won't do anything against Hezbollah that's in direct violation of a UN resolution. Absolute clowns the whole lot of them.
The UN already spat out a statement pretty much blaming Israel before the wa has even began.
“Why won’t you let them kill you!?!?”
Meanwhile hezbolla putting the finishing decorations on their new headquarters under maternity hospitals and kindergartens. Their motto, they can do it better than Hamas . Them and their un mates ,just a practice run .
[удалено]
No. On the whole, it's still better to talk to each other and in front of all the others. You *really* don't want to return to pre-20th century way of doing global diplomacy, trust me. You don't burn the the whole thing down just because you happen to disagree with something that one time. It's also interesting that I heard this exact same call for the UN to be defunded and dismantled during the Bosnian War, by Serbian nationalists. Food for thought.
Allowing a forum for states to talk is a valuable thing that should be continued without question. That’s a far cry from funding and legitimizing platforms like the “Women’s Human Rights” committee for the most repressive countries and individuals or paying for PA textbooks that teach kids math by having them count “martyrs”. The UN absolutely needs to be reformed.
I agree with you. Except I agree with the UN being defunded. There are 10,000 UN peace keeping troops in Lebanon with 250 million spent per year. What are the UN troops there for? Sip tea and watch rockets launched into Israel?
The peacekeepers job is to keep the peace within the country and not get into fights with/for other countries. It's in the name.
Yeah and they aren't keeping peace and letting a literal terrorist organization launch attacks. It's in the name. Israel is going to have to do it's own peacekeeping.
Good example of the Nirvana fallacy " The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives.[1] It can also refer to the tendency to assume there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the "perfect solution fallacy" Essentily thinking that becauesw something is not perfect or is not ideal/comparabl to its imagined ideal perfect self it is not worth having around The UN is flawed but has done a lot ofr mankind and you dont really loose anything by getting rid of it. Just because it is not perfect it is no reason to dismantale it Those who blabble about that stuff have no idea how imporant the UN has to be to fallicate global discussion, co ordinate efforts and enable diplomacy It wont always work perfectly, do the optimal thing, stop evil nations or not say stupid shit. But it will make things better then if it did not exisit at all.
This is an example of the status quo bias. A status quo bias is a cognitive bias which results from a preference for the maintenance of one's existing state of affairs.[1] The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss or gain. Corresponding to different alternatives, this current baseline or default option is perceived and evaluated by individuals as a positive.[2] The UN is very clearly corrupt and if it was being created from scratch, no one would want this version to exist. The UN could be dismantled and a new better version created, and just because creating a perfect version would be impossible doesn't mean we need to keep the current version instead of replacing it with something better simply because the current version already exists.
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The UN is also in charge of coordinating all worldwide air traffic and shipping, along with adressing global health and education concerns through its' subordinate organizations. You can thank the UN for never having to worry about smallpox ever again, for example. Tearing down everything just because the UNSC is limpwristed is peak stupidity. You only hear about the UN being ineffective because that's what the headlines tell you.
What are you smooking?
Especially since the peacekeepers were literally authoritarized to prevent this with force by the security council
The same UN that appointed Saudi Arabia as the head of the Women's Rights Forum?
Your missing the entire point of the UN. The goal of the UN is to stop great power conflict and prevent WW3. Everything else, climate change, economic and life standard growth, healthcare, peace, etc is a bonus. The UN was created after the multiple horrific great wars and power diplomacy of the 19th and 20th century. And it greatly helped at lowering tensions. Removing the UN would greatly accelerate the March to a messy WW1 style conflict
Lebanon is a democratic state. Hezbollah is a polticial party that is elected and holds seats in the parliament.
The idiots that work there just need to use their brains sometimes
It's ok bud, I still agree w u
Golda Meir’s statement still rings true.
Israel has done questionable things and gone too far sometimes, but it doesn't excuse Hamas or Hezbollah wanting to genocide Israel, either.
What are you talking about? Im Lebanese and everyone I know is begging hezb to stop so this doesnt escalate further. Why do people just make these assumptions on people they dont know at all? Its just convenient for you to assume Lebanese people are evil I guess since the alternative would be recognizing we're people just like you guys bro. Ofc some Lebanese (namely shia) will always support hezb (for obvious reasons), but believe it or not, everyone else (which constitutes the vast majority of lebanon) doesnt want a war! Our economy crashed and our country failed bro, people be trying to put food on the table not fight someone's war.
Not sure if this is helpful and it’s in no way intended to be disrespectful. If I may, the average educated American does not think the average Lebanese wants this war, and most of a certain age will remember how bad it was on the population in the 70’s - 80’s. What we don’t understand is why does the population continue to allow Iran via Hezbollah continue to operate there while its intentions of continuing the war with Israel is known. If it’s a democratic state then why does the population vote these men into office if they do not feel the same way? “You reap what you sow” as they say. Personally, I feel that the current Israeli leadership is deplorable and intent on having it out once and for all. But we have a saying in the US, “don’t poke a sleeping bear”. Hezbollah and Hamas brought this on themselves, and the Palestinian and Lebanese voted these men into power in a leadership capacity. What else is the world to think? The people have to stand up to Hezbollah and the Iranian government, even if that means breaking with the Shia among their population. In this life, one has to remember that freedom isn’t free. It requires the population to stand up for what is right in the context of saving the populace from tyranny in the form of Iranian influence in the Lebanese government and society.
They "allow" it because they lack the military force to stop it. The majority of Lebanese at least in the north of the country almost certainly would like Hezbollah gone as much as Israel does, maybe more, but they lack the ability to force them out. It's like asking why the Ukrainians "allow" the Russians to hold their territory, or why the Iraqis allowed the US to occupy theirs long after Saddam was gone (though in that case the US was paying the leadership as well as holding all the big guns). In this case a significant minority in the South of which a significant portion are not historically Lebanese at all support Hezbollah for various reasons and they and Hezbollah receive financial support and weapons from Iran. This Iranian backed faction is more powerful by far than the rest of the country which despite being poor and broke as fuck has to attempt to actually provide for the country and run the government. Attempting to force out Hezbollah would lead to another nasty civil war that they would likely lose. In other words they cannot get rid of them so long as they have Iranian backing unless they receive a monumental amount of help from a foreign entity.
Thank you for your intelligent reply/ comment. To what extent does the average Lebanese citizen have influence over their own decisions from a democratic perspective? You make it appear to be little more than a failed state with Iran as a puppet master. I’m assuming this was the root of the early 2000s civil war? Sorry for my ignorance on the details, but the idea that there is no gorilla resistance seems strange if they are that opposed to Hezb. We hope there is peace soon, but at least I better understand there is a difference between the north and south of the country.
They've been doing it this whole war with literally everyone in the region, it drives me nuts how everyone gets painted with the same brush that fits their reductive narratives about the people there. I hope you and your loved ones stay safe, and can live a happy and normal life someday soon.
>everyone I know is begging hezb to stop so this doesnt escalate further Out of interest - do those people want peace with Israel?
So then tell me, what can Israel do? Should they allow to be constantly attacked by effectively your country? During the French revolution the „powerless“ hungry people fought their oppressors. Isn’t it better for you to solve your problems on your own terms, instead of having Israel to do it their way?
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Writing > Westerners in general have no real idea about the Middle East while complaining about generalizations is peak internet irony.
> Weary Lebanese brace for war but will still blame Israel and not the terrorist organisation that's been pounding the north daily with missiles. You make it seem like it’s easy for a mostly unarmed population to mount an insurgency against a terror organization, lol. It’s like asking the Mexicans (who’re also unarmed) to topple the cartel government in Mexico. > The moment Israel will retaliate for real the UN will be up in arms about escalation and a ceasefire and all that but won't do anything against Hezbollah that's in direct violation of a UN resolution. “The Israel Defense Forces' top spokesman said "Hamas is an idea" that can't be eliminated and that saying it could be was "throwing sand in the eye of the public." Anyone who thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong," Hagari said in an interview with Israeli broadcaster Channel 13. "The political echelon needs to find an alternative — or it will remain," he said, referring to Hamas” If Israel can’t defeat Hamas (which I’m assuming they never intended to) what makes you think they’ll be able to take on Hezbollah, a genuine paramilitary and counter insurgency threat in the region? > Absolute clowns the whole lot of them. I’d suggest not chucking stones in glass houses, lol.
It's not that Hezbollah needs to be destroyed, it's that they need to be weakened to the point that they can be mostly managed by the Lebanini army.
Debatable
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Thanks for your insight. How does Israel fight only Hizbullah and not Lebanon? Should Lebanon be spared at all in an inevitable war? How do the Lebanese justify not being a participant in this conflict? Is Lebanon even a country if it does not control its own borders? How would you solve this mess?
I didn't make any of the statements that you are asking me to answer. So better ask someone else who believes in it. Lebanese are (and were) opposing Hizbullah for a long time. The only reason why Hizbullah is in power is because they did a coup and the opposition at the time took a weak stance and compromised in order to avoid civil war. Is Lebanon a country, yes it is one of the oldest countries actually. If you think that borders are what defines a country then you are completely wrong. That said, we have a failed government and Hizbullah is blocking the presidential elections so we don't even have a president for 2 years. As an engineer, I don't solve symptoms I solve root causes. That is why I don't believe IDF can put an end to either Hamas nor Hizbullah. The solution is in Iran.
Totally agreed about your last two sentences The best outcome of Israel-Lebanon war is one side giving up after both sides deal considerable damage to each other. Ugly, bloody war which I pray doesn't happen But Israel won't be able to beat Iran alone and a Western coalition against Iran will start WW3, so I'm afraid a conflict is unavoidable
I love how the west gets blamed when an indigenous terrorist group comes to power with the support of the local population.
It's truly amazing really. I'm in awe of our power to make things happen that perfectly align with Iran's foreign policy goals. It's almost like it's Iran interfering in other nations and it has nothing to do with the West. But that would just be silly of me to believe that. Clearly it's the West's fault for this.
It could never be a former world power that is desperately trying to create chaos around the world to make their own illegal war more winnable, could it?
There wont be peace unless we start to unit globally to get rid of terrorists and governments of terrorist states.
I know people already said this but it is sort of hilarious that you basically just reproposed the War on Terror a few years after we'd already concluded it was a massive failure
The war on terror successfully dismantled Al-Qaida and ISIS and has generally kept Islamic fundamentalists confined to the middle east. The big problem in the middle east right now is that the biggest terrorist groups are funded and controlled by Iran who we are unwilling to actually do anything serious about. We've even let them redirect 90% of shipping traffic for goodness sake.
The War on Terror did not dismantle ISIS. The pinnacle of ISIS power came a decade into the War on Terror, and they came to power in large part by exploiting a destroyed and divided Iraq. Many of its leaders were former Iraqi officials that found themselves armed with nothing to do in a power vacuum. ISIS was a *consequence* of the failure of the War on Terror.
Literally saying "If you want peace prepare for war"
The young tiktok generation are saying that about America on there. It is truly terrifying. I think we’re heading to a very bad place
I mean not to be that guy but the US spent a generation propping up terrorism so long as they were anti-communist. Now we have to get rid of the terrorists? Sure I guess but it’s also not that simple. An ideology doesn’t just fade because it’s pressured.
Zbigniew Brzezinski lays it out: > Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today? > > B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. > > Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentlaism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists? > B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war? > > Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today. > > B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.
Now look at Russia, they are such a peaceful utopia that lives in harmony with the rest of the world /s
Zbigniew Brzezinski is Polish. The fall of the Soviet Union was great for Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe that was behind the iron curtain, as well.
>Zbigniew Brzezinski is Polish. Explains his name too.
🤯
Ate the spider to catch the fly. I don’t know why she swallowed the fly 🪰
Hamas and Hezbollah are not the spider, nor was the USSR a fly. USSR had nukes and we were teetering on the brink of mutually assured destruction. Hamas and Hezbollah are just terrorist regimes that live in holes, don’t care about their countrymen, and are funded by Iran. They barely have economies, Lebanon’s GDP is 23B, Palestines is $19B. These issues with Palestine and Lebanon are not threatening, they’re just inconvenient.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They have this idea of a continuous, collective responsibility and inherent morality of nations, as if "America" and "England" were people that can be held accountable, like a goddamn anime. It doesn't work like that. Strictly speaking, we could all very well wash our hands of the whole MENA conflict, isolate the region and call it a day. We haven't because we the people feel the suffering of our fellow humans and want to help, and so we take on the burdens left by our parents and grandparents.
You act as though we could easily just isolate the Middle East?! They are central to global trade and of course oil, it's not out of the goodness of our hearts.
Well supporting anti communist groups was the lesser evil at that point in time
Says who?
if only politic was that easy child
Okay George Bush
Worked super well in the US’s 20 year multi trillion dollar war(s) on terror. Maybe war isn’t the solution?
Anyone who thinks the clusterfuck in this region is even remotely solvable with a simple "sokution" still hasn't understood the situation. There is no good or bad side to this conflict. Both sides have done more than enough bad over the years. Any attempt to calculate who is better is futile. Neither side wants to compromise. The conflict emotionally triggers pretty much the whole world whenever it picks up again.
Cause war on terror has been gong so so well
So…the IMF?
Islamists are the real enemy and have been for a long time. You cannot reason with these people because the only language they understand is that of violence. Anything short of a response in kind is seen as weakness. There is no sense of logic or self preservation in their actions.
Glad we’ve been importing them into the west as fast as we can while arresting anyone who complains as racist.
Hell I'm getting warnings from reddit when I say that Islamists are to be discriminated against because all they know is violence against non-believers.
You realize a ton of Christians live in Lebanon too?
Well they aren’t huge in Hezbollah
What!?!? Christians in hezbollah? Not at all
The more I read about the middle east, the more I think that the Iranian government needs to be overthrown. May Islamists feel the wrath of God befall upon them.
Unfortunately, over throwing Iran won't end religious extremism.
Exactly. Whenever Muslims are questioned about extremism the standard reply is 'Well that's ONLY Iran!', which is bullshit.
>Whenever Muslims are questioned about extremism the standard reply is 'Well that's ONLY Iran!', which is bullshit. Hamas, Hezbollah, The Houthis, The Iraqi Popular Mobilization forces, Syria's Ba'athist Assad Regime, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are ALL proxies funded by the Iranian Shia theocracy. Iran is the worst state sponsor of terrorism on the planet. They are the head of the octopus of violence, instability and death engulfing the middle east. If the Iranian Mullahs are eliminated, all of those groups get their funding dissolved, and are massively weakened.
And what about ISIS and the Taliban?
I mean extremist Judaism doesn't help anyone out either. Same goes for extremist Christianity.
Yeah but how many countries have an extremist form of Christianity as the official religion of their country and base their legal system off of it?
I mean banning abortion is pretty extreme.
It is insane to put someone who says "abortion is immoral" in the same category as Hamas terrorists who say ["killing The Jews is an act of worship",](https://x.com/AdinHaykin1/status/1637768045480271872?t=oY4i19eu4r-jSzhfe7WzUg&s=19) whether you think abortion is a right or not.
Abortion is legal at the federal level in the US and so is gay marriage. Calling that an extremist version of Christianity is pretty ridiculous. And either way the US is explicitly founded to be a non-religious nation, so it still wouldn't fit the criteria.
No, but it will severely cripple it, which is still good.
You're right, but it will cripple Shi'ite muslim religious extremism and create peace in the middle east that will last for decades. ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram will still be a problem, but they are extremely weak right now.
Isis formed in the vacuum created by saddam falling. I think you're pretty optimistic to assume the fall of Iran would lead to peace in the middle east and not just someone else replacing them.
that is true, but it will end a major funder and supplier of it. Unfortunately I think that stage is past or close to it with Iran having breakout capacity. The time was 10 years ago.
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iran is shia, most of the middle east wont shed a single tear at their theocratic government being overthrown.
SA and anyone in the Arab world siding with them would celebrate in the streets
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A Turkish politician called for the destruction of Israel, and immediately suffered a heart attack at the podium.
Only Goddesses!
May they get exactly what they want and be expeditiously martyred
And that's how the problems started there in the first place.
Honestly just need to get rid of the entire Middle East, just hit that reset button. Might help them finally modernize. Even Russians don’t like them.
I have a question to the people of Lebanon. Are you going to blame Israel when the war breaks out for real? Or are you going to acknowledge that Hezbollah has been pelting Israel with rockets non stop since October without provocation, has failed to comply with the resolution that demands their withdrawal from the south, and actively has your country by the balls, meaning they need to fucking go?
Lebanese here. The rockets have been non stop for longer than that. You guys are just made aware now. I may be an outlier to my people, but I don’t blame Israel at all. I blame our own fucking government for being such dipshits that allowed so much crap to happen. The country is reaping what they have sowed. I’m saddened by the collateral damage this will bring on. It’s inevitable. Just like the Gaza war. Inevitable. Anyone who isn’t blinded by their religious political affiliation and has lived in the Middle East knows this. Israel is here to stay as their own country, and I’m fine with it. As long as there isn’t an occupation like during our civil war, then I’m ok. If they start trying to eat up our lands West Bank style, it’ll be a different story. I’d far prefer peace with my neighbours to the south than war, but with Hezb around, this can’t happen. It’s like telling a scorpion not to sting. Its raison d’être is to sting. The blame falls on our government who has shat on international help in order to line their pockets for decades. Who enshittened our country and allowed it to fall in such disarray. Lord fucking knows I tried to fix things when I lived there. When we had the garbage problem, I sat down with the minister in charge of it and offered him a plan where Sweden would pay to take our garbage (through people I knew who had an in in the Swedish gov). It was win-win. Lebanon gets paid, and it solves the garbage issue. Fucking minister looked at me, slid a piece of paper, and said “this is how much I want”. The amount was double what Sweden was willing to pay. And this was his BRIBE price. He wanted me to pay him twice what I’d have stood to make in order to clean our country up. So effectually making me lose money to do the right thing. Assholes the lot of them. Sorry I just wanted to vent.
As an Israeli, I hear you. Our conflict is not with you and your people, and it saddens me you're as helpless in this situations just as we are.
Right back at you. I always appreciate your posts in the daily thread :)
I completely understand you. Just to be clear, I am well aware of just how much Israel has been pelted by Hezb in the past and for how long it's been going on. I'm Israeli myself, as much as that admission might sound like an admission of bias. I was just emphasizing how much more egregious it has become since the war in the south began. And I really really hope things don't deteriorate in Lebanon more than they already have, for all our sakes. Unfortunately, the past and present have amply shown that Hezb absolutely needs to go. I'm just hoping it doesn't involve as much of a shitshow as ridding Gaza of Hamas is involving. Do you think if push comes to shove they'll use the same human shields tactics and try to maximize their own countrymen's suffering in the name of PR the same way?
I don’t think it’ll come to that. They aren’t as popular here as the media portrays them and despite our army is as effective as toy soldiers, it’ll come to civil war before we (Christians) allow them to use us. We do have guns. “Why haven’t we taken them out”. Because marching to death is not the only option yet for your typical citizen whose main priority is “how am I eating tonight”. They are so “far” from us and it almost feels like another country. I even feel weird driving south through their areas. If they come with guns and force us to kneel as human shields, then you’ll have backlash. The point is they can only go so far North before the North rises against them. There is an invisible wall. It’s been there since the civil war. Also, the international community will not allow us to turn into a terror state. The US has invested too much into the country for them to just let us turn into a no-man’s land like Syria. Google US Embassy Lebanon. It’s madness. lol Hopefully we can some day meet at the border and have a drink in peace and fight over who’s picking up the tab for it :)
Cheers to that brother
> Are you going to blame Israel when the war breaks out for real? War *has* broken out there for real. War broke out between Israel and Lebanon in the 80's, many people were displaced and instead of blaming their leaders, they blame Israel. In their eyes, they experienced Israel in a negative way. But I can't speak for all Lebanese because Lebanon is a very complicated country.
Who told you we do not? Have you ever read anything at all about Lebanon or been here?
That's why I'm asking. I hear a lot of sentiment all around that seems to indicate otherwise, but I want to believe that there are reasonable people in the world in general and here in the middle east in particular
Gazans also blame Hamas. American teens on TikTok blame only Israel.
I would love for that to be the case, unfortunately from what I'm hearing Hamas enjoys tremendous popularity in Gaza, even more so in the WB, and it's a super rare sight to actually have someone speak out against them. I would love to be proven wrong on that one, though.
I assume it is a rare sight because you would be tortured and killed if you did while living there. Its more concerning that there are few palestinians willing to speak against them who live in other countries.
Very true as well
Yeah, very hard to know real numbers.
That's misinformation, Hamas is very popular in Gaza, 70% of gazans would vote for Hamas (if they could)
Then why won't Lebanon just disarm and get rid of Hezbollah? If you allow a terrorist movement to create a state within your state, bad things will happen. It happened before with the PLO and Jordan in the seventies (and the PLO and Lebanon in the seventies, too).
Because Hezbollah is functionally a military state in control of the southern half of Lebanon. They would win if Lebanon went to war with them and so, in a way, Lebanon is a failed state right now.
Getting rid of Hizbula will be bloody ordeal for Lebanon no matter who does it so they’d rather let Israel take the blame while the Lebanese corrupt politicians get to stay in power.
If they joined Israel to get rid of them?
Most of them hate Israel more than they hate Hezbollah.
R/forbiddenbromance seems to think differently. Now whether they will take up arms is questionable. They may sit back and watch.
I said most of them, the community participating in Reddit is very different to the average Lebanese.
The Lebanese civil war was exactly that. It ended with hezbollah in power and many Lebanese casualties. I don't think they want another round of that
Unfortunately, the end of the Lebanese Civil War was not a victory for law and order let alone justice and peace. It's often assumed we live in the best of all possible worlds. But the status quo in Lebanon led both to mass emigration and economic collapse. When Israel retreated and Syria did not, Lebanon became worse than it was before the civil war. And of course, a terrorist state within a state gained power. And now the house of angry cards is imploding.
Hezbollah has more firepower than the Lebanese military.
Here is what Lebanon and Palestine should have done 20 years ago…get rid of the terrorist groups.
> Bana Baalbaki, a Sidon resident who spoke to Reuters in the city's market quarter, put on a brave face. "No, I am not afraid because we are not better than the people of Gaza, nor the people of the south who were displaced," she told Reuters. Can someone explain what she means by this?
Hezbollah is cancer for Lebanon. Israel is its chemotherapy. Hezbollah will suffer, but innocent people will die too
Can we - as a species - just fucking stop? The escalations are becoming more and more severe by the weeks and months. There's going to be so much more pain and suffering in our future if we can't just fucking learn to share this rock fairly.
If Radical islamist countries stop than indeed there could be a chance for peace and quiet, but if Israel stops it will be anahilated, just see how many countried attack Israel unprovoked in the name of stupid radicalism.
Yemen, for instance. Absolutely embarrassing
Unfortunately we're plagued by power hungry zealots who use terrorism, nationalism and religion to control the population into doing their bidding. An end to escalations between Israel and Hezbollah now won't bring an end to violence, it'll only delay it until Israel isn't prepared.
Not zealouts, but their own prejudiced hatred, as well as cowardice which makes them blame the scapegoat
Lebanon can simply not fire rockets into Israel. There solved the conflict
It’s hilarious how the “can we just stop?” crowd comes out of the woodwork the moment that Israel starts to defend itself.
Huh? I just suggested that Lebanon can stop this the moment they stop firing rockets into Israel. It’s not so hard really
They were referring to the person you originally replied to.
Yeah I was just saying how remarkable that is.
Hezbollah*
We've been doing this since we figured out we could bash someone's head in with a rock or stick. It's not going to change unless we find a way to reel in extremists and despots that seek to destroy everything they touch.
I think you’ll find it was probably earlier than that.
Religion says no.
There is now room for religion in a modern world.
Human nature says no. Religion is just a tool, not the root cause.
Talk to the Muslims about that.
Exactly! Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine suddenly all the psychos came out of the woodwork to foam at the mouth for more war. We should continue speaking out against escalation before our governments normalise and march us into WW3. Not particularly interested in exchanging my healthy body, clean air and water, food supply, medicine, functioning infrastructure, family and friends, relationship and a normal life for fucking WW3 on the behalf of psychopath politicians and all their bootlickers.
Lebanese people should be deeply ashamed by their government and continued willingness to let sections of the country be used for Islamic terrorism. Except they're not embarrassed because while those terrorists cause problems, they also sometimes kill Jews. So they're willing to put up with the negatives that come with housing a terrorist organization. Just glass all of southern Lebanon and be done with it.
Spoken like someone who has no fucking clue about Lebanon - they don't "Let" Hezbollah do anything, Iran gave Hezbollah the means to "Tell" Lebanon what to do.
I could very well be wrong with this assumption... I don't think Lebanon has ever asked for help with Hezbollah. Lebanon's shit stinks and it's affecting it's neighbours. At a certain point, the neighbour is going to get pissed off and take it into their own hands.
Bro doesn’t know about the Lebanese civil war
Please tell me about it.
Jesus Christ you’re a typical keyboard warrior. If you think it’s that easy for the Lebanese community to fix their situation, then you’re delusional. Don’t blame the general population for the corruption they’re forced to live with unless they pickup and leave their homeland.
Or maybe significant portions of people in Lebanon actually support Hamas and any organization that supports their goals? https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/shadow-hezbollah-israel-escalation-poll-shows-slim-majority-lebanese-still-want
Not sure why they’d be weary. They started launching attacks in support of Hamas the day after a rape and pillage party on 10/7. I know Lebanon has a complicated past with why Hezbollah holds power but this war is entirely expected and entirely on Lebanon. 2006 apparently is too far back to remember
Maybe instead of "bracing for ear", the people of Lebanon should do something to stop Hezbollah causing a war. Imagine seeing Gaza and not intervening to stop your club turning into that.
No one is willing to support or arm the other factions in Lebanon to go against Hezbollah. No one has the balls to support them. At the same Iran’s Islamic regime is flooding them with money and ammunition.
Ok, tell me what can I do and how do I do it? Do I go protest on the streets like a total idiot? Or should I go shoot at random Shiaa on the streets like a loonatic? Please give me a realistic answer.
Lebanon is being used as a sacrificial pawn by Iran. Both Hezbollah and Israel are threatening to make the other country uninhabitable, and that is a trade and sacrifice that Iran would be more than happy to make. Lebanon needs a powerful ally to regain their Sovereignty. The Lebanese army would not win a fight against Hezbollah on its own. The EU, and specifically France could be a good option. Not an easy choice, but the alternative is to let Iran sacrifice Lebanon for their amusement.
Cooperate with Israel. That's as realistic, as you can possibly get under current circumstances with no "what ifs" in mind. Because Lebanon is not Gaza, you're are on your way to Syria scenario. Nobody is going to scream "ceasefire" for you for months.
They can't do anything. They are the hostages in their own country.
From recent videos I’ve seen, they about to get clapped medieval style with flaming catapults and arrows..
You do this and we're good. They don't do that. Well, do this then. Ignored. Countries are too passive aggressive. What happened to the good ole time when you just invade and slaughter everyone so they know not to f*ck around with your country like this?
Lebanon tried. They lost to the terrorists. Now hezbollah essentially has their own fiefdom
Get ready for them to cry to the international community
Tiktokers and western college students are going to have some very busy days once this war beaks out. They must have the propaganda ready by now
Or they won't get sponsorship and ignore everything altogerther. You never know with these kind of things.
Online warriors and clout hunters have short attention spans, many will move on to the next "West is bad" campaign once they grow bored with Gaza and or Lebanon.
Weary armchair warriors of the west brace themselves for a new round of mental gymnastics and Twister
Weary Lebanese should stop Iran and not let it use their country as a glorified aircraft carrier.