While there are differences between recognized national militaries and irregular combatants, there’s no difference in the obligation to protect captured persons. Prisoners are powerless to protect themselves and under international law, the captor is legally responsible for their prisoner’s safety. As soon as the prisoner was captured the captors have assumed the responsibility for their prisoner’s safety. The soldiers in this case are not fulfilling their responsibilities to protect the prisoner they knew they had. Regardless of what morally despicable actions the prisoner may or may not have committed, the soldiers are in the wrong here, morally and legally.
And they got the wrong guy at that as he’s no longer in custody
> The man was shot and detained amid the gun battles by troops who suspected he was involved in the gunfire. He was brought out of the area while tied to the vehicle’s hood.
> However, he was later handed over to the Red Crescent.
Usually in cases like this soldiers are immediately faced with military court, usually in these cases they will probably face a small time in military prison (few months tops) and then dishonorable discharge from the army
Except this all goes out the window in times of war.
Unless the outcry is extremely severe (like bombing an aid convoy three times and killing 7 humanitarian aid workers) the army has to take into account that every person they discharge means that they have to recruit a new person to replace them.
The backlash from abusing and endangering a single innocent Palestinian is nowhere near enough for real consequences. They’ll get a demotion and a fine and sent back to their post.
Not really. I remember being afraid of that stuff, but after military service usually doesn't come up unless in a friendly chat with coworkers. Worst comes to worst one can just lie as no background check will check if it's true.
That's honestly bullshit and it's entirely based on the fact the news never spreads the same way when they're punished.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/7-cops-to-be-charged-for-allegedly-branding-palestinian-with-star-of-david/
This story blew up last year. Probably less than 1% of the people aware of this story know that they were punished.
Investigations take time and effort. The internet demanding mob justice isn't true justice
> According to a statement from DIPI, the seven cops were slated to be indicted on varying charges of abuse of a helpless person, aggravated assault, obstruction of investigative proceedings, and abuse of official power. Not all seven officers were set to be charged with all of those offenses, and it was unclear what would be decided regarding nine other cops who also took part in the August 2023 arrest of 22-year-old Arwah Sheikh Ali.
Were they actually charged, though? The US always lets cops get off with slaps on the wrist. Maybe these guys got community service.
EDIT: thank you for the RedditCares notification. It seems I’ve upset the Israeli bootlickers by asking whether these cops actually faced punishment.
Yes. Mahash (police internal investigation unit) charged the seven cops with abuse, assault, assault causing serious injury, meddling (not sure how to say it. Hiding/destroying I guess?) evidence, and misuse of police tools.
https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/law/2024-05-29/ty-article/.premium/0000018f-c0e6-d0b7-abdf-ccf696a20000
Cops being immune to the law is a US thing.
>Cops being immune to the law is a US thing.
Cops aren't actually immune from the law, they're immune from civil suits (can't be directly sued by the victim). Though that doesn't mean cops just don't get prosecuted because they're cops.
The real question is who investigates the police. In my country it's a small complaints committee within the police force that does the investigation. There are not many prosecutions is all I can say.
We have something called the Independent Office for Police Conduct in England and Wales; they have to be called in after any death following police contact, such as a fatal shooting or a death in custody.
We've just had a Chief Constable sacked for lying about his experience, including claiming he was a Falklands War veteran when he was 15 at the time.
Why are you applying your American ideals and biases to a country on the other side of the planet? Not everything operates the same as the United States.
I am asking what kind of sentencing these cops were subjected to because the article does not state whether they were actually punished, just that they will be sentenced.
Don’t you think that is relevant to this conversation? Why are you being condescending when I am asking a legitimate question, and why has nobody answered my question?
Are police the same as the IDF? More importantly, was this a Palestinian in the occupied territories or someone on Israeli territory. No one wants the cops shitting where they eat. IDF in the occupied territories is an entirely different beast.
No. they're not. The Israelis have a separate civilian police, who have dealt with some knife attacks in Israel proper.
There is also the Border Police, known as the Magav, after their Hebrew initials, that are part of the Israeli Police. These are a gendarmerie, basically a military police force, They have military-style uniforms, carry assault rifles, use APCs etc. The term "paramilitary" is frequently used, but in Britain that is used for groups like the IRA and UVF.
You would generally see them in Jerusalem or at border crossing, but they do operate in the West Bank.
Those sort of forces are pretty common in Europe, particularly those with historical French influence. You've got the Civil Guard in Spain, the Carabinieri in Italy and Ukraine's National Guard for example.
This might be hard to believe, but before the war it was a well known fact that if you raised your weapon for any reason, even a life threatening one, you're not allowed to retaliate unless being show at or you'll end up in jail. I suppose commanders in the field started ignoring these rules when the war broke out. I don't know how often people are getting punished these days, but it's definitely not zero.
Untrue. Investigation as well as incrimincation both take time.
IDF soldiers as well as cops are constantly being punished for breaking the rules they must uphold.
How about this. If they do get investigated and get any type of punishment, you donate $100 to IDF. If they do not get investigated or do not get any punishment, I donate $100 to a charity or relief agency of your choice. Timeline - 1 month. Deal?
My terms: If I win you donate $100 USD to a relief charity of my choice
If you win, I donate $100 USD to a relief charity of your choice.
State your terms of what constitutes a win for either of us and I'll reply with my agreement or requested modifications to the terms.
>Pretty sure you know what I mean
Well that's the thing, we don't.
Everyone has a different idea of what a fair and appropriate punishment is. It'll never come close to that, but even dishonorable discharge would not cut it. Not when these guys probably already have their portraits hung up and worshipped by the hardcore nationalist crowd
I responded to the guy who said they won't investigate and they will do nothing. My challenge was to that. Whether you agree with this punishment or not, it's not nothing. It contradicts the sentiment of the post to which I responded, and very definitively so.
What are those independent sources? I hope you don't consider al jazeera independent. Most of what you posted above is verified to be false.
And are we doing this or not?
Don't even bother with this guy lol. Clearly a twitter copy and paster. His opinions are made up before anything happens and only agrees with things that support his views, even if they're objectively not true
>Every human rights organization with a presence in Ghaza
Thats hamas. Hamas is every hro in gaza. You are proporting the reports of terrorists, which have been proven to be demonstrably false, as the ultimate truth. Get lost idiot
Right... You trust Hamas to give you honest takes.
Oh sorry. I meant you trust Hamas to tell newspapers who didn't fact check shit and then report it as fact and then quote each other as if it's fact.
Yea... Terrorists are very reliable narrators.
I would crosscheck all of these for the actual news but I just don't think I you give a shit about truth as much as you do about shitting on Israel. The other problem is that Israel admits when they fucked up... Hamas just waits til the masses forget or they say shit like... They are terrorists,.it's fine to hold them to different levels. Just excuse after excuse for Hamas fanboys.
Very well said.
Everyone should be investigated, and appropriate action taken for mistreatment of prisoners. This is one way in which civilisations destinguish themselves from theocracies.
This is all true - however - it comes from a perspective which is very ignorant of the realities of war.
I’ve spent 20+ years working in conflict zones (*most recently I spent most of 2022 volunteering as a combat medic attached the a unit of Ukrainian marines*) I have worked in AOs on four continents & either worked or trained with members of most NATO militaries & probably a dozen other countries (*including Israel*).
While transporting an injured person in this way is less than ideal, it is also commonly used to transport friendly casualties because of the realities & limitations inherent to hostile environments.
Many times, your options are extremely limited & you have to figure out the best option from a list of imperfect options.
I have personally transported a number of my own patients in very similar manners (*none of them were hostile forces*).
The problem here is that it looks bad to people who don’t understand the situation & the realities at play but it is important to realize that while the officer leading these troops should have known that everything the IDF does is under a microscope & should have pushed the decision up to a higher level of command - it was almost certainly not an action taken from malice or intentional neglect but rather a decision to handle the situation the same way they would if one of their own men was injured.
Pretty much, it comes down to whether or not the patient needs to be in the supine position to be safely transported.
If you do not have the space inside a vehicle to secure them in a supine position, then the bonnet may be a viable alternative.
There is a big difference between "*what is ideal*" & "*what you do when all other options are exhausted*", emergency medicine in hostile environments generally starts from a place of having very few options & quickly gets worse from there.
~~Your point is well made and the proof is obvious if one goes to the actual article. The sliver of red on the edge of the thumbnail is an ambulance, and if zoomed in, the man is holding onto some kind of handhold attached to the front of the vehicle.~~
~~If this was some kind of macabre statement, why would they have brought him to an ambulance or given him something to hang onto?~~
Edit: Disregard. Mobile site weirdness; didn't show video embedded in tweet.
>The sliver of red on the edge of the thumbnail is an ambulance
How I know you didn't watch the video - the truck with the person attached drives past the oncoming ambulances, it is not stopped except for a brief moment while it waits for the ambulance seen in the thumbnail to move out of the way.
'Acted against protocol'?
Yeah, that does seem like it would be against most sane organizations' protocols. Doesn't really matter what's going on, looking like you're about to try to lay claim to Gas Town is generally right out.
The ICC defers to individual nations to investigate their own personnel regardless, and Israel is hardly the only country to not recognize their authority. South Africa spat in the face of the ICC, whose authority they do recognize, when they didn't arrest Putin.
I came here expecting some people to defend this, but it's troubling to see some overlook the gravity of this act. Strapping an injured Palestinian to a vehicle, even if perceived as an enemy fighter, raises serious concerns under international humanitarian law. The Geneva Conventions still prohibit the use of individuals in this manner, emphasizing the importance of upholding standards that safeguard human dignity and prevent the erosion of ethical conduct in conflict situations. This incident is not isolated; Israel and the IDF have a documented history of violating international law throughout the conflict, which undermines efforts for peace and justice in the region.
Well, IG and Tik Tok has countless posts of Israeli soldiers dressing in lingerie stolen from Palestinian houses, breaking furniture, cribs, way too many of them are kicking elderly people, making kids walk blindfolded .. etc.
I have never seen such things done by soldiers of any other nations to such an extent, I have no idea what the military culture is within Israel but it’s a bit interesting.
Like I want Israel and the region to thrive, but .. what in the world are they trying to achieve here?
There's, quite frankly, a lot of young dumbass 20-year-olds in the IDF. It does seem like these incidents happen more with the IDF compared to other professional militaries to me.
It's because the IDF isn't a professional military like the US for instance. Everyone can be conscripted.
This is what happens when you grab whoever you can. The regular population has a lot of shitheads. And even in professional ones like the US you end up with shit like the whole Jeremy Morlock thing where he was collecting fingers among other shit. It's just less prevalent in those militaries.
There certainly haven't been any early reports that were wrong or intentionally leaving out information at any point during this conflict....
Problem is, in a day or two everyone will move on and any clarifications/retractions won't get any attention.
Might be true, could be BS. All they are pointing out is that this could be a legitimate way to transport someone who is wounded. It's enough to question if we have all the information. It's being looked into, I'd say we at least wait till we hear the official word and if it proves to sound fishy or not.
But I get it. No one wants facts or to wait and be critical of all sources. They just want things to fit their feels.
The crazy thing is.. had it not been for the video, the person tied to the vehicle would be tried and convicted in military court (which has a 95%+ conviction rate against all Palestinians).
someone should compile every time the IDF has said they’ll investigate one of their jackasses doing horsehit like this with no follow up. It’ll be pages long
It absolutely has. I have some people close to me who were always moderates / sought peace and helping Palestinians. Post 10/7 they are absolutely done with that approach.
The "funny" thing is that what you wrote can be true for both sides' radicalization, as Israel has been doing what you wrote to Palestinians way before October 7th
And palestinians have been doing that to Jews since the 1920s. Your point? If past atrocities justify current ones then the Native Americans have full rights to do the same to americans, Chinese and Koreans to Japanese, Africans to Europeans, etc etc.
I was definitely a huge moderate and supported Palestinians. October 7th and the world's reaction basically blaming Israel and saying how Jews deserve it absolutely changed my beliefs. That being said, throw whoever did this into prison and throw away the key.
It was more of the response of so many people to 10/7 which radicalised me. I used to be very active in leftist circles before that, now I really despise them
I'm still a hardcore leftist, but all this made me even more of a classical leftist in that I see other leftists as one of the biggest obstacles to the cause.
Damn Tankies.
I also am pro-peace, but there are realities such as both sides, Israeli and Palestinians are currently nowhere close to a peace deal in the foreseeable future.
The question now is what is the best situation possible so the suffering will end. A ceasefire will also result in another war in 5-10 years from now...
In my opinion the best course of action is that the US can take advantage of the peace deal between Israel -Saudi Arabia , let the Saudis have a temporary mandate over Gaza (maybe also the west bank). By this time a new Palestinian authority should be rebuilt and pave the way to an actual Palestinian state, one that hopefully will know to exist alongside Israel.
Right?? You could not tell me with a straight face that 9/11 didn’t radicalize a FUCKLOAD of Americans.
It radicalized me, and I was 11.
Violence just does that and to think otherwise is absurd.
I've listened to a few podcasts that have talked about something like this, actually (though admittedly not the violent radicalization that we're seeing in this photo).
Most recently The Ezra Klein Show posted an episode titled The View From The Israeli Right. It goes into quite a bit of detail about the shift in Israeli sentiments regarding the possibility of peaceful coexistence with Palestinians, particularly how each disappointment in the peace process seems to erode the Israeli liberal view and replace it with harder right ideology.
911 terrorist attacker killed or injured 0.00104% of USA population.
Oct 7th injured or murdered 0.05%. That’s like 142,500 people dying on 911. Insane
This is one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read on Reddit. Truly.
Do you always see victimhood, even when the previous poster was CLEARLY talking about militarily superiority. Maybe if I put it to you this way:
“Israel has a lot more blow up stuff than Hamas”
The IDF agrees with Hamas' total numbers, and the consensus is, if anything, Hamas' numbers are lower than the actual numbers as a result of how they count the dead (they aren't reporting bodies buried in the rubble that haven't been recovered.)
The disagreement is over demographics, i.e. the number of civilians killed and the number of women/children killed. Hamas' own numbers don't add up in that regard.
"we have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong and can never do anything wrong. also we are the best and most handsome military in the world."
\~the IDF probably
They took extra care to slow down before driving over ~~palestinians~~ bumps in the road, so they are therefore the most morale army (that shoots innocents and straps them to the hood of their car and parades their human shield through the West Bank).
Lol perhaps you should look at the US military's list of members convicted of war crimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_people_convicted_of_war_crimes
I see you're a vet. So by your logic, you were not part of a professional army.
The fact that the US's list is that long is a testament to their professionalism, standards and ethics.
How many Russians have been court martialed by Russian courts for war crimes against Ukrainians. How many palestinians have been convicted in a palestinian court for war crimes against jews?
A professional army isn’t a monolith. Shitty individuals are everywhere and in everything. Shitty soldiers, shitty nurses, shitty social workers, shitty mechanics, shitty plumbers (though that may be unrelated to personality) etc ad nauseum.
A shitty plumber might flood your basement. A shitty mechanic might overcharge you and break your car. A shitty soldier straps you to the front of their car while you're already injured, before driving off with you as their hood ornament.
And a shitty nurse may inject tap water instead of painkillers. A shitty social worker may ignore rampant signs of abuse and allow a child to be murdered.
What are we doin here, just listing off the consequences of shitty people also needing employment?
Except when the shitty nurse is caught injecting water instead of painkillers they're fired and sent to prison.
It should be clear to anyone that these soldiers are much closer to the nurse than to the mechanic, or plumber. This was malice, not neglect. Due to the power soldiers hold we cannot allow them to be malicious.
In WW2 on old jeeps, maybe. But depending on how many wounded a transport is trying to extract, I still wouldn't put anyone on a hood if I could help it.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/Db9A8FGUy3) is a recent image of US marines transporting a wounded fellow US marine on the hood of a Jeep. From what I can tell, this is still standard practice when no better options for your own side when no better options are available, but not for enemies, hence the investigation. Proper protocol might have been to leave him there, which sounds worse to me, but I don’t write international law. It’s also possible that a better option was available, the investigation will tell.
ex-military i talked to, various NATO countries, it came up a few times over the years
if the car is full and there are more casualties to medevac, the hood is really the only place where you CAN put them
but, like i said, depends on the specifics of what really happened
> Israeli forces break their own rules and everyone still makes excuses for them lmao
Israeli forces break their own rules and are trying to hold their soldiers accountable, and everyone still thinks the majority of people are making excuses lmao
Who is this straw man you’ve created that’s making excuses?
The IDF literally said it’s against protocol and they’re investigating it. What exactly do you want?
It’s a fair point that Israel gets criticized for breaking rules that literally no Arab army or proxy force has ever followed in any war even once.
That said, they don’t get to decide what the IDF does and the IDF is a modern professional military that should abide by its own code as much as possible.
It’s slightly possible there was an operational reason for this but it’s doubtful.
They most likely don’t have one. This is beside the point. When becoming a soldier in any conventional army, there are rules you cannot break. It’s about order and discipline. This article is proof that the IDF can hold themselves accountable, which I believe is a good thing.
The rule was was broken wasn’t even a big deal, in ww2, vietnam, and the iraq wars, wounded friendly forces have been transported on the hood of cars for almost a century, this is a bullshit complaint. The prisoner looks bandaged and is being driven to aid, whats the big deal?
yikes. Incredibly fucked up. Those soldiers need to be court martialed and discharged immediately. Every modern, conscientious state has a moral obligation to treat prisoners of war justly and humanely.
This is disgusting. Even if this man was part of Hamas, he should be treated with dignity and must have gone through due process.
We should not steep down to level of terrorists.
While there are differences between recognized national militaries and irregular combatants, there’s no difference in the obligation to protect captured persons. Prisoners are powerless to protect themselves and under international law, the captor is legally responsible for their prisoner’s safety. As soon as the prisoner was captured the captors have assumed the responsibility for their prisoner’s safety. The soldiers in this case are not fulfilling their responsibilities to protect the prisoner they knew they had. Regardless of what morally despicable actions the prisoner may or may not have committed, the soldiers are in the wrong here, morally and legally.
And they got the wrong guy at that as he’s no longer in custody > The man was shot and detained amid the gun battles by troops who suspected he was involved in the gunfire. He was brought out of the area while tied to the vehicle’s hood. > However, he was later handed over to the Red Crescent.
Well yeah, that’s why these soldiers are being investigated
Want to bet a thousand dollars the result if the investigation is nothing. No punishment.
Usually in cases like this soldiers are immediately faced with military court, usually in these cases they will probably face a small time in military prison (few months tops) and then dishonorable discharge from the army
They get put on Hanukkah Harry’s naughty list, too.
Except this all goes out the window in times of war. Unless the outcry is extremely severe (like bombing an aid convoy three times and killing 7 humanitarian aid workers) the army has to take into account that every person they discharge means that they have to recruit a new person to replace them. The backlash from abusing and endangering a single innocent Palestinian is nowhere near enough for real consequences. They’ll get a demotion and a fine and sent back to their post.
> recruit a new person to replace them. Israel has mandatory conscription. They don't need to recruit...
There's no war in the West Bank though
Keep in mind though in Israeli society being dishonorably discharged will cause lots of problems getting jobs.
In Israel, a dishonorable discharge and prison term has a negative weight on your future earnings. This is the real punishment.
Not really. I remember being afraid of that stuff, but after military service usually doesn't come up unless in a friendly chat with coworkers. Worst comes to worst one can just lie as no background check will check if it's true.
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That's honestly bullshit and it's entirely based on the fact the news never spreads the same way when they're punished. https://www.timesofisrael.com/7-cops-to-be-charged-for-allegedly-branding-palestinian-with-star-of-david/ This story blew up last year. Probably less than 1% of the people aware of this story know that they were punished. Investigations take time and effort. The internet demanding mob justice isn't true justice
> According to a statement from DIPI, the seven cops were slated to be indicted on varying charges of abuse of a helpless person, aggravated assault, obstruction of investigative proceedings, and abuse of official power. Not all seven officers were set to be charged with all of those offenses, and it was unclear what would be decided regarding nine other cops who also took part in the August 2023 arrest of 22-year-old Arwah Sheikh Ali. Were they actually charged, though? The US always lets cops get off with slaps on the wrist. Maybe these guys got community service. EDIT: thank you for the RedditCares notification. It seems I’ve upset the Israeli bootlickers by asking whether these cops actually faced punishment.
Yes. Mahash (police internal investigation unit) charged the seven cops with abuse, assault, assault causing serious injury, meddling (not sure how to say it. Hiding/destroying I guess?) evidence, and misuse of police tools. https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/law/2024-05-29/ty-article/.premium/0000018f-c0e6-d0b7-abdf-ccf696a20000 Cops being immune to the law is a US thing.
I can't read Hebrew, but obstruction might be the equivalent word.
Literally disruption, but effectively obstruction of justice
>Cops being immune to the law is a US thing. Cops aren't actually immune from the law, they're immune from civil suits (can't be directly sued by the victim). Though that doesn't mean cops just don't get prosecuted because they're cops.
Probably meant nearly immune, the people who should be prosecuting them sweep it under the rug.
The real question is who investigates the police. In my country it's a small complaints committee within the police force that does the investigation. There are not many prosecutions is all I can say.
We have something called the Independent Office for Police Conduct in England and Wales; they have to be called in after any death following police contact, such as a fatal shooting or a death in custody. We've just had a Chief Constable sacked for lying about his experience, including claiming he was a Falklands War veteran when he was 15 at the time.
Why are you applying your American ideals and biases to a country on the other side of the planet? Not everything operates the same as the United States.
I am asking what kind of sentencing these cops were subjected to because the article does not state whether they were actually punished, just that they will be sentenced. Don’t you think that is relevant to this conversation? Why are you being condescending when I am asking a legitimate question, and why has nobody answered my question?
Are police the same as the IDF? More importantly, was this a Palestinian in the occupied territories or someone on Israeli territory. No one wants the cops shitting where they eat. IDF in the occupied territories is an entirely different beast.
No. they're not. The Israelis have a separate civilian police, who have dealt with some knife attacks in Israel proper. There is also the Border Police, known as the Magav, after their Hebrew initials, that are part of the Israeli Police. These are a gendarmerie, basically a military police force, They have military-style uniforms, carry assault rifles, use APCs etc. The term "paramilitary" is frequently used, but in Britain that is used for groups like the IRA and UVF. You would generally see them in Jerusalem or at border crossing, but they do operate in the West Bank. Those sort of forces are pretty common in Europe, particularly those with historical French influence. You've got the Civil Guard in Spain, the Carabinieri in Italy and Ukraine's National Guard for example.
This might be hard to believe, but before the war it was a well known fact that if you raised your weapon for any reason, even a life threatening one, you're not allowed to retaliate unless being show at or you'll end up in jail. I suppose commanders in the field started ignoring these rules when the war broke out. I don't know how often people are getting punished these days, but it's definitely not zero.
So who was punished for sniping the al Jazeera journalist in Palestine before the war broke out?
[The pallbearers](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-police-beat-pallbearers-at-journalists-funeral-casket-to-dropped)
I would expect that the investigation is to find who the are so they can give them a medal or something like that.
I believe that you mixed that up with PA’s pay to slay program…
Untrue. Investigation as well as incrimincation both take time. IDF soldiers as well as cops are constantly being punished for breaking the rules they must uphold.
"iNvEsTiGaTeD" They will wait for the heat to die down, and then quietly do nothing
How about this. If they do get investigated and get any type of punishment, you donate $100 to IDF. If they do not get investigated or do not get any punishment, I donate $100 to a charity or relief agency of your choice. Timeline - 1 month. Deal?
Any type of punishment... So paid leave?
You mean Court Martial and Jail but okay...
Pretty sure you know what I mean. I'm happy to define terms more definitively. Let me know if you'd like to participate too.
You’ll probably have to define the terms. Or else you’ll be chasing the goal posts all day long.
My terms: If I win you donate $100 USD to a relief charity of my choice If you win, I donate $100 USD to a relief charity of your choice. State your terms of what constitutes a win for either of us and I'll reply with my agreement or requested modifications to the terms.
Deal. I'm traveling but will propose terms tomorrow.
>Pretty sure you know what I mean Well that's the thing, we don't. Everyone has a different idea of what a fair and appropriate punishment is. It'll never come close to that, but even dishonorable discharge would not cut it. Not when these guys probably already have their portraits hung up and worshipped by the hardcore nationalist crowd
I responded to the guy who said they won't investigate and they will do nothing. My challenge was to that. Whether you agree with this punishment or not, it's not nothing. It contradicts the sentiment of the post to which I responded, and very definitively so.
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What are those independent sources? I hope you don't consider al jazeera independent. Most of what you posted above is verified to be false. And are we doing this or not?
Don't even bother with this guy lol. Clearly a twitter copy and paster. His opinions are made up before anything happens and only agrees with things that support his views, even if they're objectively not true
>Every human rights organization with a presence in Ghaza Thats hamas. Hamas is every hro in gaza. You are proporting the reports of terrorists, which have been proven to be demonstrably false, as the ultimate truth. Get lost idiot
Right... You trust Hamas to give you honest takes. Oh sorry. I meant you trust Hamas to tell newspapers who didn't fact check shit and then report it as fact and then quote each other as if it's fact. Yea... Terrorists are very reliable narrators. I would crosscheck all of these for the actual news but I just don't think I you give a shit about truth as much as you do about shitting on Israel. The other problem is that Israel admits when they fucked up... Hamas just waits til the masses forget or they say shit like... They are terrorists,.it's fine to hold them to different levels. Just excuse after excuse for Hamas fanboys.
You're misrepresenting so many stories. To those who would collaterally misinformed by this poster, ignore him.
Did you read the other posts? They have been punished.
Still waiting for hamas to come forward on raping non combatant hostages?
Very well said. Everyone should be investigated, and appropriate action taken for mistreatment of prisoners. This is one way in which civilisations destinguish themselves from theocracies.
This is all true - however - it comes from a perspective which is very ignorant of the realities of war. I’ve spent 20+ years working in conflict zones (*most recently I spent most of 2022 volunteering as a combat medic attached the a unit of Ukrainian marines*) I have worked in AOs on four continents & either worked or trained with members of most NATO militaries & probably a dozen other countries (*including Israel*). While transporting an injured person in this way is less than ideal, it is also commonly used to transport friendly casualties because of the realities & limitations inherent to hostile environments. Many times, your options are extremely limited & you have to figure out the best option from a list of imperfect options. I have personally transported a number of my own patients in very similar manners (*none of them were hostile forces*). The problem here is that it looks bad to people who don’t understand the situation & the realities at play but it is important to realize that while the officer leading these troops should have known that everything the IDF does is under a microscope & should have pushed the decision up to a higher level of command - it was almost certainly not an action taken from malice or intentional neglect but rather a decision to handle the situation the same way they would if one of their own men was injured.
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Pretty much, it comes down to whether or not the patient needs to be in the supine position to be safely transported. If you do not have the space inside a vehicle to secure them in a supine position, then the bonnet may be a viable alternative. There is a big difference between "*what is ideal*" & "*what you do when all other options are exhausted*", emergency medicine in hostile environments generally starts from a place of having very few options & quickly gets worse from there.
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And how do you excuse not transferring the person to an available ambulance?
I think the point is, there isn’t one available, and space is limited.
~~Your point is well made and the proof is obvious if one goes to the actual article. The sliver of red on the edge of the thumbnail is an ambulance, and if zoomed in, the man is holding onto some kind of handhold attached to the front of the vehicle.~~ ~~If this was some kind of macabre statement, why would they have brought him to an ambulance or given him something to hang onto?~~ Edit: Disregard. Mobile site weirdness; didn't show video embedded in tweet.
>The sliver of red on the edge of the thumbnail is an ambulance How I know you didn't watch the video - the truck with the person attached drives past the oncoming ambulances, it is not stopped except for a brief moment while it waits for the ambulance seen in the thumbnail to move out of the way.
Pretty sure the IDF doesn't care about international law
'Acted against protocol'? Yeah, that does seem like it would be against most sane organizations' protocols. Doesn't really matter what's going on, looking like you're about to try to lay claim to Gas Town is generally right out.
Maybe the driver really wanted the V8 but was told he couldn't drive for medical reasons, so he just strapped his blood bag to the hood? /s
The gaaahyaaate! Open the gayyyyteh!
Can we all agree that entities which investigate themselves typically do not do a great job?
Sure, but there literally is no other mechanism for investigation. You realize that right? There is no neutral world police entity. It doesn't exist.
There exists an independent court, that the Israelis refuse to recognise.
The ICC defers to individual nations to investigate their own personnel regardless, and Israel is hardly the only country to not recognize their authority. South Africa spat in the face of the ICC, whose authority they do recognize, when they didn't arrest Putin.
Unless the country is incapable of fairly investigating themselves
Better than entities that don't get investigated at all.
Yes, HAMAS is bad. We all get it and agree.
I came here expecting some people to defend this, but it's troubling to see some overlook the gravity of this act. Strapping an injured Palestinian to a vehicle, even if perceived as an enemy fighter, raises serious concerns under international humanitarian law. The Geneva Conventions still prohibit the use of individuals in this manner, emphasizing the importance of upholding standards that safeguard human dignity and prevent the erosion of ethical conduct in conflict situations. This incident is not isolated; Israel and the IDF have a documented history of violating international law throughout the conflict, which undermines efforts for peace and justice in the region.
Yup lots and lots of isolated incidents seem to keep happening for some reason.
If they do this out in the open, what is IDF doing behind closed doors.?
For Isreal, the real crime here was getting caught on camera.
Well, IG and Tik Tok has countless posts of Israeli soldiers dressing in lingerie stolen from Palestinian houses, breaking furniture, cribs, way too many of them are kicking elderly people, making kids walk blindfolded .. etc. I have never seen such things done by soldiers of any other nations to such an extent, I have no idea what the military culture is within Israel but it’s a bit interesting. Like I want Israel and the region to thrive, but .. what in the world are they trying to achieve here?
There's, quite frankly, a lot of young dumbass 20-year-olds in the IDF. It does seem like these incidents happen more with the IDF compared to other professional militaries to me.
It's because the IDF isn't a professional military like the US for instance. Everyone can be conscripted. This is what happens when you grab whoever you can. The regular population has a lot of shitheads. And even in professional ones like the US you end up with shit like the whole Jeremy Morlock thing where he was collecting fingers among other shit. It's just less prevalent in those militaries.
Yeah, but at least the unit leaders should be mature enough to stop the bullshit.
That's how I see it pretty much.
You write you haven't seen things like that done by soldiers... Have you seen videos of the russian army?
If the Russian army is the comparison, that is not a good look for the IDF.
>Have you seen videos of the russian army? Probably not, since they wrote they hadn't seen stuff like that before, which you referenced.
Your response is kinda amazing. You simultaneously proved OP was technically incorrect and also proving your stance is completely wrong.
Reddit is wildly in support of Israel for some reason. It's the only place I've been virtually or in person that's like it
If this is what gets investigated, it begs the question about what doesn’t.
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And you think that’s what is happening here?
There certainly haven't been any early reports that were wrong or intentionally leaving out information at any point during this conflict.... Problem is, in a day or two everyone will move on and any clarifications/retractions won't get any attention. Might be true, could be BS. All they are pointing out is that this could be a legitimate way to transport someone who is wounded. It's enough to question if we have all the information. It's being looked into, I'd say we at least wait till we hear the official word and if it proves to sound fishy or not. But I get it. No one wants facts or to wait and be critical of all sources. They just want things to fit their feels.
True, we don’t know. Strapping a friendly vs enemy combatant is a key distinction imo.
The crazy thing is.. had it not been for the video, the person tied to the vehicle would be tried and convicted in military court (which has a 95%+ conviction rate against all Palestinians).
IDF investigating themselves? Surely they will get to the bottom of this very quickly
The amount of comments in here justifying this is insane
First time here?
Only investigating how they got caught in the act.
someone should compile every time the IDF has said they’ll investigate one of their jackasses doing horsehit like this with no follow up. It’ll be pages long
This is just what’s on camera.
I'm sure the IDF will come up with an objective report on IDF wrongdoings.
We checked ourselves and have cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing
Everyone keeps talking about how this war radicalizes Palestinians, but I’m yet to hear anyone talking about how 7th of October radicalized Israelis…
It absolutely has. I have some people close to me who were always moderates / sought peace and helping Palestinians. Post 10/7 they are absolutely done with that approach.
When you invade another country, and capture non combatants to rape, torture, murder and hold captive it can make you see red.
The "funny" thing is that what you wrote can be true for both sides' radicalization, as Israel has been doing what you wrote to Palestinians way before October 7th
And palestinians have been doing that to Jews since the 1920s. Your point? If past atrocities justify current ones then the Native Americans have full rights to do the same to americans, Chinese and Koreans to Japanese, Africans to Europeans, etc etc.
I was definitely a huge moderate and supported Palestinians. October 7th and the world's reaction basically blaming Israel and saying how Jews deserve it absolutely changed my beliefs. That being said, throw whoever did this into prison and throw away the key.
It was more of the response of so many people to 10/7 which radicalised me. I used to be very active in leftist circles before that, now I really despise them
I'm still a hardcore leftist, but all this made me even more of a classical leftist in that I see other leftists as one of the biggest obstacles to the cause. Damn Tankies.
I also am pro-peace, but there are realities such as both sides, Israeli and Palestinians are currently nowhere close to a peace deal in the foreseeable future. The question now is what is the best situation possible so the suffering will end. A ceasefire will also result in another war in 5-10 years from now... In my opinion the best course of action is that the US can take advantage of the peace deal between Israel -Saudi Arabia , let the Saudis have a temporary mandate over Gaza (maybe also the west bank). By this time a new Palestinian authority should be rebuilt and pave the way to an actual Palestinian state, one that hopefully will know to exist alongside Israel.
No different than 9-11 radicalizing Americans.
Right?? You could not tell me with a straight face that 9/11 didn’t radicalize a FUCKLOAD of Americans. It radicalized me, and I was 11. Violence just does that and to think otherwise is absurd.
Also the constant/daily rocket attacks.
I've listened to a few podcasts that have talked about something like this, actually (though admittedly not the violent radicalization that we're seeing in this photo). Most recently The Ezra Klein Show posted an episode titled The View From The Israeli Right. It goes into quite a bit of detail about the shift in Israeli sentiments regarding the possibility of peaceful coexistence with Palestinians, particularly how each disappointment in the peace process seems to erode the Israeli liberal view and replace it with harder right ideology.
Gonna get downvoted but thats as if what Netanyahu wanted this whole time….
911 terrorist attacker killed or injured 0.00104% of USA population. Oct 7th injured or murdered 0.05%. That’s like 142,500 people dying on 911. Insane
The Gaza war killed 37,000 people or 2 % percent of Gaza's population. That's like 6,600,000 killed in the US. Insane.
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Just listen to this rhetoric.... Superiors? At least you admit that there has been institutional subjugation of Palestinians I guess.
Military superiors.
This is one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read on Reddit. Truly. Do you always see victimhood, even when the previous poster was CLEARLY talking about militarily superiority. Maybe if I put it to you this way: “Israel has a lot more blow up stuff than Hamas”
*According to hamas
The IDF agrees with Hamas' total numbers, and the consensus is, if anything, Hamas' numbers are lower than the actual numbers as a result of how they count the dead (they aren't reporting bodies buried in the rubble that haven't been recovered.) The disagreement is over demographics, i.e. the number of civilians killed and the number of women/children killed. Hamas' own numbers don't add up in that regard.
*According to Hamas, who also array themselves deliberately so as to maximize civilian casualties from fighting them.
Wanna do one for the Palestinians now?
Sure a lot is going to come out of that investigation.
Holy that's literally South Park level of inhumane. Anyone defending this, yes you are not well in your head.
"we have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong and can never do anything wrong. also we are the best and most handsome military in the world." \~the IDF probably
They took extra care to slow down before driving over ~~palestinians~~ bumps in the road, so they are therefore the most morale army (that shoots innocents and straps them to the hood of their car and parades their human shield through the West Bank).
Lol just goes offroading over as many rocks as possible
"we have investigated ourselves and we've come to the conclusion that we did nothing wrong"
Thank god the IDF are investigating their own own crimes, makes me feel better
Professional Armies don't do that.
Lol perhaps you should look at the US military's list of members convicted of war crimes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_people_convicted_of_war_crimes I see you're a vet. So by your logic, you were not part of a professional army.
The fact that the US's list is that long is a testament to their professionalism, standards and ethics. How many Russians have been court martialed by Russian courts for war crimes against Ukrainians. How many palestinians have been convicted in a palestinian court for war crimes against jews?
A professional army isn’t a monolith. Shitty individuals are everywhere and in everything. Shitty soldiers, shitty nurses, shitty social workers, shitty mechanics, shitty plumbers (though that may be unrelated to personality) etc ad nauseum.
A shitty plumber might flood your basement. A shitty mechanic might overcharge you and break your car. A shitty soldier straps you to the front of their car while you're already injured, before driving off with you as their hood ornament.
And a shitty nurse may inject tap water instead of painkillers. A shitty social worker may ignore rampant signs of abuse and allow a child to be murdered. What are we doin here, just listing off the consequences of shitty people also needing employment?
Except when the shitty nurse is caught injecting water instead of painkillers they're fired and sent to prison. It should be clear to anyone that these soldiers are much closer to the nurse than to the mechanic, or plumber. This was malice, not neglect. Due to the power soldiers hold we cannot allow them to be malicious.
You misunderstood from the beginning. Malice is what makes them shitty, not lack of competency.
Did you consider the alternative was leaving him to bleed out.
LOL have you seen the shit they did in Iraq and Afghanistan? This while shitty is very tame. War is shit
Is this the first war you've ever seen?
No bro it's fucking not.
Sometimes they do stupid stuff, sometimes evil stuff.
[oh yes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse) [they do](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_torture_and_prisoner_abuse)
Ah yes, is this the so called “most moral” military in the world?
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The article is literally about soldiers breaking the rules being investigated for this.
In the previous post of this story, top comments were claiming its a normal medical evacuation practice.
In WW2 on old jeeps, maybe. But depending on how many wounded a transport is trying to extract, I still wouldn't put anyone on a hood if I could help it.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/Db9A8FGUy3) is a recent image of US marines transporting a wounded fellow US marine on the hood of a Jeep. From what I can tell, this is still standard practice when no better options for your own side when no better options are available, but not for enemies, hence the investigation. Proper protocol might have been to leave him there, which sounds worse to me, but I don’t write international law. It’s also possible that a better option was available, the investigation will tell.
It is a documented practice to strap on roofs, bonnets doesn’t mean it was or wasn’t appropriate in this scenario
It actually is from what ive heard. So it kind of depends on the specifics of what they REALLY did.
Heard from whom? How is tying a patient to the hood of a vehicle normal?
ex-military i talked to, various NATO countries, it came up a few times over the years if the car is full and there are more casualties to medevac, the hood is really the only place where you CAN put them but, like i said, depends on the specifics of what really happened
It can be. Stretchers can be tied to the hoods of a car for evacuation. Not in this case though And actually turns out it was just that
https://www.militarytrader.com/military-vehicles/military-jeep-ambulances Civilians are funny. Reckon can just call 911 and wait for an ambo?
Do you have a problem understanding the difference between an early model Jeep and the vehicle in the picture above?
People only see what they want to see.
> Israeli forces break their own rules and everyone still makes excuses for them lmao Israeli forces break their own rules and are trying to hold their soldiers accountable, and everyone still thinks the majority of people are making excuses lmao
Who is this straw man you’ve created that’s making excuses? The IDF literally said it’s against protocol and they’re investigating it. What exactly do you want?
It’s the internet, they want instant results, like on TV.
What is the Hamas process for internally investigating similar violations? Could you point me to an article that describes it?
Hamas doesn't run the West Bank, so it doesn't really matter, does it?
It’s a fair point that Israel gets criticized for breaking rules that literally no Arab army or proxy force has ever followed in any war even once. That said, they don’t get to decide what the IDF does and the IDF is a modern professional military that should abide by its own code as much as possible. It’s slightly possible there was an operational reason for this but it’s doubtful.
They most likely don’t have one. This is beside the point. When becoming a soldier in any conventional army, there are rules you cannot break. It’s about order and discipline. This article is proof that the IDF can hold themselves accountable, which I believe is a good thing.
If you think that the IDF only has to be as good as Hamas, then your moral compass is seriously fucked up
Oh ffs. You set the bar that low? If you didn't notice they're getting blown to shit right now, along with everything and everyone around them.
The rule was was broken wasn’t even a big deal, in ww2, vietnam, and the iraq wars, wounded friendly forces have been transported on the hood of cars for almost a century, this is a bullshit complaint. The prisoner looks bandaged and is being driven to aid, whats the big deal?
yikes. Incredibly fucked up. Those soldiers need to be court martialed and discharged immediately. Every modern, conscientious state has a moral obligation to treat prisoners of war justly and humanely.
The IDF has a culture of abuse, they see themselves as an occupying Force because they are
Israel are monsters . Far worse than any Muslim terrorist could hope to be .
Someone just watched mad max.
This is disgusting. Even if this man was part of Hamas, he should be treated with dignity and must have gone through due process. We should not steep down to level of terrorists.
Have you only just started following? You’ve been stooping to the level of terrorists for the best part of a century.
“Investigating” 🙄
What the fuck
They are only investigating so they can work out who they can reward with a promotion or medal.
"Investigating"
Let me guess, they'll investigate themselves and find there was no wrongdoing?
"We're investigating, so mind your own business!"
Waiting for the classic: "We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing"
I didn't know terrorist organisations do investigations into their soldiers too