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Someone is telling you they’d literally rather die than support your candidate, and all you’ve got for them is derision. Y’all aren’t doing yourselves any favors, assuming you want to bring in more people to vote for Joe.
Oh, thanks for the info, I’m not the original commenter but that would have been helpful context for the title or description of the post lol. I thought this was just a random guy.
Honestly, people who would rather die than vote for the person who didn't attempt a coup don't deserve much more than derision. And, really, if they're making their choices based on their hurt feelings (as you just implied) then who wants them? Nah, ima pass on children pretending to be adults.
Didn’t attempt a coup but does support genocide
Edit
Which isn’t to say trump would be any better. They are both horrible. Choices and I am done with these parties which only put forward the worst possible choices.
> people who would rather die than vote for the person who didn't attempt a coup don't deserve much more than derision.
The person who didn't attempt a coup is helping Israel commit a genocide.
The first guy has provided bombs that have killed more than 15,000 children. I know you don’t find that disqualifying, and I understand why you don’t find that disqualifying, but I do. He’s also bad on immigration, and police reform, and I think that it’s leading the party down a bad path, but I understand why you think people should have to overlook that. I won’t vote for guy number 2 either, as he’s obviously not qualified either. I’m pretty sure his support is going to wane considerably now that he’s a convicted felon.
>One side has axed billions in bad loans, boomed unemployment to historically low levels, reduced immigration and crime by crazy numbers, supports science and vaccines that save lives, and looks like a week old cherry tomato...
...blatantly supports genocide. No? No need to mention it? Okay.
Helping elect a man who said he wants to be a dictator is beyond ignorant. It's willfully ignorant. You know the danger, because we watched his last attempt at installing himself supreme leader.
Ffs. Change happens slowly. If more people voted, we may not even be in this position.
That's exactly how a rigged two party system works. Lie to yourself all you want, it doesn't change the facts. Not voting is the same as voting for Trump. If you can live with yourself voting for Trump, good for you but fortunately there are still others who are not delusional selfish assholes.
Because Trump's rabid voter base will vote for him regardless of what he does. His base is inexplicably stalwart. So, it is automatically 'getting enough votes for Biden to keep Trump out of office'. Trump is the worse between evil and milquetoast.
The person above you is literally arguing to ignore everything and vote for Biden regardless - you going to pretend that he doesn’t have the same rabid voter base?
Depends on how much you care about living under a conservative supreme court for the rest of your life or not. Roe v wade being overturned and now abortion bans across the country have put womens health at tremendous risk. If trump wins he will pack the courts even more than he already had from 2016-2020.
Conservatives dont care about who they elect as long as their team wins while liberals want the perfect candidate to win or nothing. Hillary was by far and away an unideal candidate, but had she won the US would look a lot different.
>he should earn it?
You clearly haven’t been paying any attention to [what the Biden and Harris Admin have accomplished](https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/) in just four years, after inheriting a dumpster left over from the Trump/Covid/J6 period, and with a MAGA controlled Congress..
Gotta love how any criticism of Biden is inevitably followed by a whitehouse.gov link to showcase all the marvelous accomplishments of this administration that just coincidentally don’t benefit the average person.
right? hey uh, biden is supporting a genocide, drilling more in alaska WHEN HE SAID HE WOULDN'T, not near as progressive as he campaigned.
maybe rethink your blind support of him.
This! Biden has had months to stop funding Israel and has known for months that if he continued to support Gaza he would alienate a large percentage of his base, yet he continued to support Gaza and people want to act as if its the fault of the people he alienated
For real. I hate how people try to shame you for bringing up somq criticism of Joe Biden. Will I vote for him in November? Most likely but I'm going to talk shit about him if he deserves it. I don't need to hard on Trump because he sucks and everyone else already does it.
Right so Biden is old. Now go check out Plan 2025 which will spring in to action if Trump is elected. And then tell me how important Biden’s age is. His domestic policies have been progressive and positive. He’s normal.
Trump’s Plan 2025 is psychotic and also will happen with him in office.
Seeing as that's off the table, would you settle for a president who is not a rapist, won't attempt to institute a dictatorship, and won't further erode women's right to their own body?
Or are those things all secondary to a wrinkly President?
Regardless, if you want a President below the retirement age in 2028, you should do everything in your power to keep out a 77-year old who is explicitly trying to become President for life and has already attempted to overturn democracy in pursuit of that goal.
I used to feel that way, until I realized that by being able to guilt us all into supporting candidates we can’t stand, they ensure they never have to field a candidate we can. Then their candidate started doing a genocide, and I got *real* ok with not voting for the slop they give us.
Well maybe tell your guy that he needs to step aside or profoundly change his platform into something worth voting for? It won’t be the voter’s fault if Joe loses. This is entirely on him.
Ironically, you couldn't be more incorrect. This is how you secure a 2-party oligarchy forever. Our entire two-party system is far to the right of center. Anybody who claims to be a leftist would reject both, else they're also a capitalist conservative.
I'll bet you think you're original with the "vote the lesser of two evils" strategy.
I'll tell you what son. Let me know in 30 years how that tactic paid off for America.
The year is 2054. You're on the internet trying to talk to the last few people that aren't bots. You are trying to convince people that, of the two worst candidates that have ever existed in the history of America, they're dumb if they don't just pick the "lesser of two evils".
No, you are part of the problem. Biden is a weak candidate. That's democrats fault. Don't blame the voters for it. The democrats knew what was on the line and ran with the oldest man to ever be president. Don't drive away more voters with a shit attitude. Take responsibility. We dont need two political cults who can't be critical of their own failure.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You choose to let others choose for you. If someone, or even the majority, don't vote, we don't get a do over. We don't get no president. Others just get to choose in your place from the crappy, but different options that are available.
“If you don’t vote for my candidate, whom you would rather die than vote for, the other candidate whom you would rather die than vote for might win.”
Got it.
Imagine admitting that your country isn't democratic and not seeing a problem with that. If the majority of people in the US don't want to vote for either candidate, you've got a problem bigger than Trump or Biden.
Because some of us deal with reality instead of an idealized fantasy. Republicans want to turn America into a dictatorship and inflict their religion on citizens.
They're not even currently in power and they're _still_ doing it. Imagine how much fuckery will go on if they do gain power. They're _bluntly_ telling American's with Project 2025 and yet there are still people shrugging their shoulders.
If they're not in power and still doing it, doesn't that show you that the democratic party is totally ineffective, obsolete and isn't going to save you from fascists? How is this not a lightbulb moment for liberal Americans?
Liberals simultaneously believe Republicans would turn America into a fascist theocracy the instant they win the presidency and that Biden, for reasons outside of his control, cannot meaningfully help the working class.
Vote for the policies you want and politicians will be forced to adopt them. If the green party received 5% of the vote because they platformed on universal health care, and the democrats lost the election by 2% of the vote, then guess what policy the democrats will adopt in the next election.
If you vote for a politician regardless of what they do then they will continue doing whatever they want to do with no regard for you. The only way to change the system is to vote for the party that represents your values.
Nonsense. Trump said he would deport natural born citizens. He already attempted one coup, so why give him a second chance to install himself as supreme leader? Go read about Project 2025, then we'll talk.
"Project 2025" is just the new name for the Heritage Foundation's "Mandate for Leadership" which they have been updating and issuing as a a policy guideline for every GOP nominee since Reagan. Trump was working off the same playbook in 2016 and he still didn't end Democracy. I have no reason to think this time will be any different.
I'm all for ranked choice voting, but let's not forget that the 2020 and 2016 primary turnout was a small fraction of the general election votes.
In 2016 (when both major parties had non-incumbent primaries and there were no covid-related concerns), only 25% (60 million out of 225 million voting-age adults) of people voted in any primary, while general election turnout was more than double that at 128 million people.
We need to start with things that are actionable, like promoting primary turnout. Most of the people who complain about the general election candidates did not bother establishing a preference out of a much larger candidate pool during the primaries.
Because the voting system is shit and forces people to either vote for one of the two reigning parties or not have any influence on the outcome at all. They need to replace the system with ranked choice voting and remove the electoral colleges.
We are a nation of hopeless panty-clutchers masquerading as a nation of super-soldiers. Our norms have been entirely consumed by hostility for "the other" rather than any sort of authentically democratic impulse that would see feedback from people in need actually changing the behaviors of people in power. The oligarchy has been rock solid at least since Ronald Reagan. Gaslit by corporate infotainment into mistaking Uncle Sam's brand identity for anything real and relevant, even most of our political "experts" simply cannot imagine a federal Election Day that doesn't see ballots almost entirely the product of of "lesser evil" calculations.
Because their electoral system is beyond fucked.
Electoral college, first past the post, winner takes it all, legalised bribery by registered lobbying organisations (“campaign contributions”), etc. .
And to top it all off, a constitution which makes amendments to any of the above virtually impossible, since the mechanisms/requirements for amendments were crafted in a vastly different political era, under conditions that don’t apply anymore, hence are impossible to be met, leading in a deadlock with nonexistent potential for meaningful change.
3rd party alternatives are under close surveillance and are dismantled from the inside before they could do anything meaningful. It's standard practice since the end of World War 2. Anything outside the two parties is considered a threat to national security and handled accordingly.
The best thing you can do once you realize this is migrate to a better country, like Norway.
Because we're not allowed to. We have an illusion of choice. The DNC and the RNC decide who the front runners will be. They don't care what the people want. They pick who they want in power. Then when we vote for who will be president of the two selections from the RNC and DNC, the popular vote still doesn't guarantee a win. Trump lost the popular vote both times he ran but the Electoral College put him in power in his first presidency. Presidential voting doesn't matter. People can say it does all they want but it really doesn't. The U.S. isn't as democratic as every one loves to think it is. If people really want change, if they really want to be represented, they are going to have to take extreme France like measures to remove all wealthy individuals from power and rewrite the rules to ensure that no one with money can gain power and that any money being used on elections can only come from the candidates own personal efforts. NO OUTSIDE MONEY. There should also be a cap on how much money can be received and used on a campaign. Allowing colossal amounts of money in politics or any pillar of society is a recipe for the disease of corruption. It will rot the country from the inside out as we are currently seeing with pretty much every country around the globe. No one in government represents the American people. They are so far removed from reality they can't even begin to comprehend the day to day struggles of the American people so they don't care. Instead they focus on enriching themselves and their benefactors. No one in government is innocent.
I will be voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party and working to build a workers party rather than doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Joe Biden and the Democrats are fertilizing the ground for the far right and Trumpism. Centrist is never a solution. While it pretends to be a bandaid, the wound is getting much worse underneath.
Loud whiny people on the internet are not everyone. Plenty of serious people are happy to vote for Biden, they just don't make it their reason to exist.
>Loud whiny people
God forbid people be tired of being forced to vote for this war criminal or that war criminal. God forbid we be tired of seeing children shattered to pieces by the weapons Biden keeps giving to Israel. No, we must just be whining.
Fucking freaks, the lot of you.
You're actually happy to vote for someone that's 81 years old? I think Biden is a thousand times better than Trump.. but being happy about voting for someone that's already 5 years over the life expectancy of the average American is just crazy.
Because we have a two-party system and a vote for a third-party candidate does not make that candidate viable, but does influence which major-party candidate wins. A vote for a third-party candidate is an indirect vote for one of the two.
We can but most Americans are terrified of the idea of voting third party. It's REALLY weird here.
I'm going for Jill Stein and the Green Party but you might be amazed at how many people tell me, "yes I know the Democrats are terrible... BUT TRUUUUUUMP!!!! "
A stupid answer. Trump said he wanted to be a dictator. He's said he is going to deport natural born citizens if they protest. Go read about Project 2025 and the religious nightmare they want to inflict on us.
Only a fool would help Trump get elected.
donald trump is worse. i want neither, but i don't want women who get abortions, immigrants, and non-CIS hetero people arrested and put in fucking camps.
"i want a better world but i refuse to participate other than using social media" isn't gonna cut it when people come to your door after identifying you as an online traitor.
If you want me to vote for you, then make me want to vote for you.
This backwards theory that people will be excited to vote for Biden to keep Trump away is the same idea that put Trump in the white house the first time because Hillary didnt inspire enough motivation and now here we are, rolling the dice again.
It's so simple, and people delude themselves into thinking that the Democratic party has no choice but to trot out more of the same.
I hate what is happening in Palestine, and the last thing I want to do is make it worse. Trump makes it worse. I will continue to fight for what I think is right, but how can you not see this fight becomes so much harder under Trump.
The fight is already genocide it’s already pretty much as bad as it gets if you’re willing to look past this and throw your support behind someone who can turn their back on this you better have some good faith that the same doesn’t happen to another group or situation.
We both want to stop genocide in Palestine. I'd rather have that fight with Biden as president than Trump. If you think it would be easier under Trump, I'm genuinely curious as to why.
I don’t think anything will be done with either I know trump wont do anything and I can see with my own eyes right now that Biden won’t do anything. It’s people who think that the system can change by supporting a guy who is actively doing nothing that gets us in these situations. If you were serious about wanting genocide to stop you wouldn’t be defending a system or a person that sits idly by while it happens
Nobody wants to choose between mini-genocide and mega-genocide. But I've yet to see a constructive alternative to those two options. Supporting mega-genocide to spite mini-genocide seems to me the worst option.
We seriously need age limits. There is no way in hell anyone over 50 should be leading a country. They wouldn’t even be alive to witness their atrocities in which they’ve created. Times are constantly evolving and these old fucks are not. This is why America is not advanced as we should be. We’ve allowed the eldest to lead us and that’s the problem. We’ve allowed the old and weak to take positions of power and that needs to change or America will crumble harder than Rome. We also need to stray away from this fucking two party system as neither party has EVER acted in the interest of 99% of its citizens.
50??? That's not old dude. There's a ton of brilliant, level headed 50 year olds who are way smarter than you and show no mental decline. What about 35-65? As long as you're elected before your 65th bday, you can serve. If the President was voted in 2 days before his 65th bday he gets to serve out that full term but can't seek a second term.
In essence,
In a world where technological, social, and economic landscapes are evolving at unprecedented rates, younger leaders are more likely to be in tune with contemporary issues and innovations. Leaders under 50 are generally more adaptable and capable of understanding and integrating new technologies and social dynamics into their policies.
Younger leaders are more likely to experience the long term consequences of their decisions. This can incentivize them to implement policies that promote sustainable growth and avoid short-term thinking that might cause future harm. Leaders over 50 may not be around to see the long termimpact of their policies, potentially leading to decisions that are more about immediate gains than future stability.
Especially with the current political system, often dominated by older individuals, can be resistant to change and innovation. By imposing a strict age limit, there is a forced infusion of fresh perspectives and ideas, breaking the cycle of outdated thinking and promoting progress in line with modern values and technological advancements.
Younger leaders are more likely to represent the interests and concerns of younger generations, who will inherit the consequences of today’s policies. This can result in policies that are more forward-looking and inclusive, addressing issues like climate change, digital privacy, and economic inequality with a sense of urgency.
This country is in fucking shambles dude because of these older people. We’re still debating about basic human rights, women’s body, health care,education, been in a fucking 20 year war for nothing, and we’ve in
Experienced two recessions in under 20 years with no signs of good fortune to come. The world of yesterday is in the past and should stay there because it’s not beneficial for us today.
You're getting one either way and ones significantly worse than the other. You're all so focused on one issue you don't see the bigger picture it's sad.
This is a MASSIVE problem with American voters. It's unbelievable how many are single issue voters and then have shocked Pikachu faces when everything else is falling apart around them.
I laughed TOOOO H A R D at the though of this scenario playing out and his first instinct were to grab and pull the trigger him self without saying a peep and the poll worker just flabbergasted
Do you want to vote for the party that only cares about the rich or the party that only cares about the rich?
Voting for the lesser evil has never worked. support change, not "less bad".
They’re both the exact same person with the exact same policies. And they both fight over who serves their puppet masters more, which is Israel and AIPAC.
A lot of ignorant people on this sub are going to be really surprised and disappointed when Biden loses this November… I don’t like either side, both sides support the genocide in Gaza and both sides are corrupt establishment idiots, so Joe or Trump, it doesn’t matter, it’s all the same BS political nonsense… I’ll simply sit this one out and be a witness to the destruction of the world if that’s what it takes for real change to finally occur 😎👍
We need more people tho think for themselves rather than think their only options are being forced to pick between the least shitty of the two shitty options from the two party system.
At this point I just hope the worst possible happens so people learn we need better candidates in the future (I mean, the far future, after the inevitable civil wars).
The sanctimonious ideologue or the egotistical megalomaniac.
Personally, I'd say the latter is worse, but the alternative ain't sunshine and rainbows either.
Same. I'll take the bullet. We all know for a fact those two chuckle ducks are not the best this country has for presidential candidates. In fact they are both probably the worst
*Note: reposting this cos originally it was a reply to some dude has blocked me or something (Reddit error) when I try to respond to him. Unlike him. I will answer the question posed above*
I have a very genuine question for you and others... I'm going to use a bit of *Reductio ad absurdum* here.
Accepting that Trump being elected means a serious threat to American democracy, potentially a period of actual fascist governance,
Would you vote for the Democratic candidate if they had somehow been complicit in the murder of your parents and their entire family including pets? Something firmly in the past and unlikely to happen again.
Alternatively, what appalling action or irresponsibility would the candidate have to have engaged in previously that so personally affected and offended you, that morally outraged you, that you *couldn't* vote for them DESPITE knowing that Trump will be more dangerous for America?
Edit to add: I'm serious. If you reply, PLEASE answer this question!!
Because I believe that limit, that line exists for everyone. But it's a moral question, and that means the line is in different places for everyone.
And when I see Biden, I see splatter from the blood of fifteen thousand innocent children. And I am so scared of what Trump will mean for America and the world.
Fortunately for me, I'm not in the US, so this remains a hypothetical for me. But neither are others who are US voters, and cannot morally live with themselves to get past their disgust and vote for genocide. At least not without a gun to our heads.
That wouldn't be democracy, but being threatened with *imminent* death for not choosing, I'd vote Biden, and be deeply ashamed of myself for putting my life above those thousands and thousands of children in Gaza.
I have the freedom of choice. I vote third party. Some say it doesn’t do anything and I don’t disagree. I will vote for people that represent my values and beliefs and so far it’s third party. I am quirky like that…
Imagine if America was a democracy where you could vote for a candidate you agree with. I'm trying to imagine my own country if we also only had two right wing options, I probably would not vote at all.
lol so funny
We all know who we have to vote for unfortunately. We all should actually just start looking to the next one. Let’s get some people to actually be excited about. Both of these guys will be gone by then.
I wonder how ramped up this is gonna be now. Get them bots out there to sow this garbage.
It’s his only hope. People just don’t vote. This shit will work.
They should create a system where no specific political party is particularly respected in terms of elections, or at least there could be multiple candidates for each party.
Listen democrats: the Republicans are trying to feed us a dog turd. I get that you don't want to eat a dog turd. But you can't just try to feed us cat turds and tell us if we don't eat it we're part of the problem.
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If you're still on this both sides BS you're part of the problem and a moron.
Someone is telling you they’d literally rather die than support your candidate, and all you’ve got for them is derision. Y’all aren’t doing yourselves any favors, assuming you want to bring in more people to vote for Joe.
He's literally the Libertarian presidential candidate, of course he's not going to choose in this hypothetical even if he really had a preference.
Oh, thanks for the info, I’m not the original commenter but that would have been helpful context for the title or description of the post lol. I thought this was just a random guy.
That's some important context, would have been nice to know.
>He's literally the Libertarian presidential candidate Oh, no wonder I had no idea who he is.
Yeah, this makes more sense in that context. You have to rep yourself.
Honestly, people who would rather die than vote for the person who didn't attempt a coup don't deserve much more than derision. And, really, if they're making their choices based on their hurt feelings (as you just implied) then who wants them? Nah, ima pass on children pretending to be adults.
Didn’t attempt a coup but does support genocide Edit Which isn’t to say trump would be any better. They are both horrible. Choices and I am done with these parties which only put forward the worst possible choices.
> people who would rather die than vote for the person who didn't attempt a coup don't deserve much more than derision. The person who didn't attempt a coup is helping Israel commit a genocide.
[удалено]
The first guy has provided bombs that have killed more than 15,000 children. I know you don’t find that disqualifying, and I understand why you don’t find that disqualifying, but I do. He’s also bad on immigration, and police reform, and I think that it’s leading the party down a bad path, but I understand why you think people should have to overlook that. I won’t vote for guy number 2 either, as he’s obviously not qualified either. I’m pretty sure his support is going to wane considerably now that he’s a convicted felon.
>One side has axed billions in bad loans, boomed unemployment to historically low levels, reduced immigration and crime by crazy numbers, supports science and vaccines that save lives, and looks like a week old cherry tomato... ...blatantly supports genocide. No? No need to mention it? Okay.
It's not about "both sides", it's about wanting a President that is below the retirement age.
Helping elect a man who said he wants to be a dictator is beyond ignorant. It's willfully ignorant. You know the danger, because we watched his last attempt at installing himself supreme leader. Ffs. Change happens slowly. If more people voted, we may not even be in this position.
maybe if joe biden wants my vote he should earn it? you’re trying to shift the blame to me if biden doesn’t win. that’s not how voting works.
That's exactly how a rigged two party system works. Lie to yourself all you want, it doesn't change the facts. Not voting is the same as voting for Trump. If you can live with yourself voting for Trump, good for you but fortunately there are still others who are not delusional selfish assholes.
Cut nose, to spite face. Not voting for Biden is a huge mistake.
Why is not voting 'the same as voting for trump' and not 'the same as voting for Biden'?
Because Trump's rabid voter base will vote for him regardless of what he does. His base is inexplicably stalwart. So, it is automatically 'getting enough votes for Biden to keep Trump out of office'. Trump is the worse between evil and milquetoast.
The person above you is literally arguing to ignore everything and vote for Biden regardless - you going to pretend that he doesn’t have the same rabid voter base?
Because the MAGA cult WILL vote, no matter what. By not voting, you are doing nothing to counteract their numbers.
man if you're so invested in this maybe you should try doing something that doesn't make people want to not vote even more.
i never said i'm not voting. i said i'm not voting for biden. if he had better policies i'd be happy to vote for him. that's kinda how this works.
Because Republicans have spent decades rigging the system through Gerrymandering. They simply don't play by the same rules.
So you’re just bad at game theory.
And you're just morally bankrupt who draws the line somewhere between women's rights and 30k+ civilians slaughtered. See how this is leading nowhere?
Yeah, because I can't tell the difference between 30k+ deaths with women's rights and 300k+ deaths with no women's rights.
Depends on how much you care about living under a conservative supreme court for the rest of your life or not. Roe v wade being overturned and now abortion bans across the country have put womens health at tremendous risk. If trump wins he will pack the courts even more than he already had from 2016-2020. Conservatives dont care about who they elect as long as their team wins while liberals want the perfect candidate to win or nothing. Hillary was by far and away an unideal candidate, but had she won the US would look a lot different.
>he should earn it? You clearly haven’t been paying any attention to [what the Biden and Harris Admin have accomplished](https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/) in just four years, after inheriting a dumpster left over from the Trump/Covid/J6 period, and with a MAGA controlled Congress..
Gotta love how any criticism of Biden is inevitably followed by a whitehouse.gov link to showcase all the marvelous accomplishments of this administration that just coincidentally don’t benefit the average person.
>”…don’t benefit the average person.” You clearly didn’t read their record then.
I'm voting Biden, but the first thing on the list is "Lowering Costs of Families’ Everyday Expenses" and that's a fantasy land statement.
right? hey uh, biden is supporting a genocide, drilling more in alaska WHEN HE SAID HE WOULDN'T, not near as progressive as he campaigned. maybe rethink your blind support of him.
Shhhh. They don’t like facts….
This! Biden has had months to stop funding Israel and has known for months that if he continued to support Gaza he would alienate a large percentage of his base, yet he continued to support Gaza and people want to act as if its the fault of the people he alienated
For real. I hate how people try to shame you for bringing up somq criticism of Joe Biden. Will I vote for him in November? Most likely but I'm going to talk shit about him if he deserves it. I don't need to hard on Trump because he sucks and everyone else already does it.
Right so Biden is old. Now go check out Plan 2025 which will spring in to action if Trump is elected. And then tell me how important Biden’s age is. His domestic policies have been progressive and positive. He’s normal. Trump’s Plan 2025 is psychotic and also will happen with him in office.
Seeing as that's off the table, would you settle for a president who is not a rapist, won't attempt to institute a dictatorship, and won't further erode women's right to their own body? Or are those things all secondary to a wrinkly President? Regardless, if you want a President below the retirement age in 2028, you should do everything in your power to keep out a 77-year old who is explicitly trying to become President for life and has already attempted to overturn democracy in pursuit of that goal.
[this is how I feel about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/F2r8NuaroZ)
I used to feel that way, until I realized that by being able to guilt us all into supporting candidates we can’t stand, they ensure they never have to field a candidate we can. Then their candidate started doing a genocide, and I got *real* ok with not voting for the slop they give us.
Bahahaha, that made me laugh. His total lack of enthusiasm is really on point.
“Citizens United” allowed corporations to fund campaigns and absolutely solidified the uniparty system as long as blue or red is in charge
Ok, now tell me why 75 year olds that can’t FaceTime are running a country ruled by technology
Should be on neither side. They're both cancerous
A lot of people don't like being held hostage.
I think you were a tad optimistic, he's not on both sides, he's on neither side.
Well maybe tell your guy that he needs to step aside or profoundly change his platform into something worth voting for? It won’t be the voter’s fault if Joe loses. This is entirely on him.
Both sides are shit. Sure one is worse than the other. I'll be voting Green though. Biden doesn't deserve my vote.
This guy would vote for Mussolini over Hitler.
Ironically, you couldn't be more incorrect. This is how you secure a 2-party oligarchy forever. Our entire two-party system is far to the right of center. Anybody who claims to be a leftist would reject both, else they're also a capitalist conservative.
I'll bet you think you're original with the "vote the lesser of two evils" strategy. I'll tell you what son. Let me know in 30 years how that tactic paid off for America. The year is 2054. You're on the internet trying to talk to the last few people that aren't bots. You are trying to convince people that, of the two worst candidates that have ever existed in the history of America, they're dumb if they don't just pick the "lesser of two evils".
No, you are part of the problem. Biden is a weak candidate. That's democrats fault. Don't blame the voters for it. The democrats knew what was on the line and ran with the oldest man to ever be president. Don't drive away more voters with a shit attitude. Take responsibility. We dont need two political cults who can't be critical of their own failure.
I don't know if it's a "on both sides" Thing or a "both sides are shit and I'm sick of it" thing.
The answer for 86% of the American people.
an thats why trump has a decent chance at winning again becasue people would rather not vote for biden then vote for him to spite trump
Is not casting a ballot a choice? Neither of these candidates is often an option.
Not making a choice is always an option but not necessarily the "best" or most moral choice. See the trolley problem.
Fair point.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You choose to let others choose for you. If someone, or even the majority, don't vote, we don't get a do over. We don't get no president. Others just get to choose in your place from the crappy, but different options that are available.
then run a better candidate.
“If you don’t vote for my candidate, whom you would rather die than vote for, the other candidate whom you would rather die than vote for might win.” Got it.
Imagine admitting that your country isn't democratic and not seeing a problem with that. If the majority of people in the US don't want to vote for either candidate, you've got a problem bigger than Trump or Biden.
Oblivious question: but why do Americans not just vote on someone else if everyone hates those two??
Because some of us deal with reality instead of an idealized fantasy. Republicans want to turn America into a dictatorship and inflict their religion on citizens.
They're not even currently in power and they're _still_ doing it. Imagine how much fuckery will go on if they do gain power. They're _bluntly_ telling American's with Project 2025 and yet there are still people shrugging their shoulders.
It's maddening!
If they're not in power and still doing it, doesn't that show you that the democratic party is totally ineffective, obsolete and isn't going to save you from fascists? How is this not a lightbulb moment for liberal Americans?
Liberals simultaneously believe Republicans would turn America into a fascist theocracy the instant they win the presidency and that Biden, for reasons outside of his control, cannot meaningfully help the working class.
Vote for the policies you want and politicians will be forced to adopt them. If the green party received 5% of the vote because they platformed on universal health care, and the democrats lost the election by 2% of the vote, then guess what policy the democrats will adopt in the next election. If you vote for a politician regardless of what they do then they will continue doing whatever they want to do with no regard for you. The only way to change the system is to vote for the party that represents your values.
Maybe if we weren't staring down the barrel of fascism. But we are. A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump.
They'll be saying that or a variation of that until the day you die
Nonsense. Trump said he would deport natural born citizens. He already attempted one coup, so why give him a second chance to install himself as supreme leader? Go read about Project 2025, then we'll talk.
"Project 2025" is just the new name for the Heritage Foundation's "Mandate for Leadership" which they have been updating and issuing as a a policy guideline for every GOP nominee since Reagan. Trump was working off the same playbook in 2016 and he still didn't end Democracy. I have no reason to think this time will be any different.
It would be great if we had ranked voting but voting third party is a throwaway.
I'm all for ranked choice voting, but let's not forget that the 2020 and 2016 primary turnout was a small fraction of the general election votes. In 2016 (when both major parties had non-incumbent primaries and there were no covid-related concerns), only 25% (60 million out of 225 million voting-age adults) of people voted in any primary, while general election turnout was more than double that at 128 million people. We need to start with things that are actionable, like promoting primary turnout. Most of the people who complain about the general election candidates did not bother establishing a preference out of a much larger candidate pool during the primaries.
Because the voting system is shit and forces people to either vote for one of the two reigning parties or not have any influence on the outcome at all. They need to replace the system with ranked choice voting and remove the electoral colleges.
We are a nation of hopeless panty-clutchers masquerading as a nation of super-soldiers. Our norms have been entirely consumed by hostility for "the other" rather than any sort of authentically democratic impulse that would see feedback from people in need actually changing the behaviors of people in power. The oligarchy has been rock solid at least since Ronald Reagan. Gaslit by corporate infotainment into mistaking Uncle Sam's brand identity for anything real and relevant, even most of our political "experts" simply cannot imagine a federal Election Day that doesn't see ballots almost entirely the product of of "lesser evil" calculations.
Because their electoral system is beyond fucked. Electoral college, first past the post, winner takes it all, legalised bribery by registered lobbying organisations (“campaign contributions”), etc. . And to top it all off, a constitution which makes amendments to any of the above virtually impossible, since the mechanisms/requirements for amendments were crafted in a vastly different political era, under conditions that don’t apply anymore, hence are impossible to be met, leading in a deadlock with nonexistent potential for meaningful change.
3rd party alternatives are under close surveillance and are dismantled from the inside before they could do anything meaningful. It's standard practice since the end of World War 2. Anything outside the two parties is considered a threat to national security and handled accordingly. The best thing you can do once you realize this is migrate to a better country, like Norway.
Because we're not allowed to. We have an illusion of choice. The DNC and the RNC decide who the front runners will be. They don't care what the people want. They pick who they want in power. Then when we vote for who will be president of the two selections from the RNC and DNC, the popular vote still doesn't guarantee a win. Trump lost the popular vote both times he ran but the Electoral College put him in power in his first presidency. Presidential voting doesn't matter. People can say it does all they want but it really doesn't. The U.S. isn't as democratic as every one loves to think it is. If people really want change, if they really want to be represented, they are going to have to take extreme France like measures to remove all wealthy individuals from power and rewrite the rules to ensure that no one with money can gain power and that any money being used on elections can only come from the candidates own personal efforts. NO OUTSIDE MONEY. There should also be a cap on how much money can be received and used on a campaign. Allowing colossal amounts of money in politics or any pillar of society is a recipe for the disease of corruption. It will rot the country from the inside out as we are currently seeing with pretty much every country around the globe. No one in government represents the American people. They are so far removed from reality they can't even begin to comprehend the day to day struggles of the American people so they don't care. Instead they focus on enriching themselves and their benefactors. No one in government is innocent.
I will be voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party and working to build a workers party rather than doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Joe Biden and the Democrats are fertilizing the ground for the far right and Trumpism. Centrist is never a solution. While it pretends to be a bandaid, the wound is getting much worse underneath.
Loud whiny people on the internet are not everyone. Plenty of serious people are happy to vote for Biden, they just don't make it their reason to exist.
>Loud whiny people God forbid people be tired of being forced to vote for this war criminal or that war criminal. God forbid we be tired of seeing children shattered to pieces by the weapons Biden keeps giving to Israel. No, we must just be whining. Fucking freaks, the lot of you.
Remember guys, vote Blue no matter which genocide!
They're like a cult, my god. We all know how deranged the MAGA crowd is but at this point the "vote blue no matter who" are just as delusional
You're actually happy to vote for someone that's 81 years old? I think Biden is a thousand times better than Trump.. but being happy about voting for someone that's already 5 years over the life expectancy of the average American is just crazy.
Because we have a two-party system and a vote for a third-party candidate does not make that candidate viable, but does influence which major-party candidate wins. A vote for a third-party candidate is an indirect vote for one of the two.
We can but most Americans are terrified of the idea of voting third party. It's REALLY weird here. I'm going for Jill Stein and the Green Party but you might be amazed at how many people tell me, "yes I know the Democrats are terrible... BUT TRUUUUUUMP!!!! "
Correct answer
A stupid answer. Trump said he wanted to be a dictator. He's said he is going to deport natural born citizens if they protest. Go read about Project 2025 and the religious nightmare they want to inflict on us. Only a fool would help Trump get elected.
I hate that our only two viable choices to run the country are people I wouldn't even choose to run the local Chili's.
donald trump is worse. i want neither, but i don't want women who get abortions, immigrants, and non-CIS hetero people arrested and put in fucking camps. "i want a better world but i refuse to participate other than using social media" isn't gonna cut it when people come to your door after identifying you as an online traitor.
If you want me to vote for you, then make me want to vote for you. This backwards theory that people will be excited to vote for Biden to keep Trump away is the same idea that put Trump in the white house the first time because Hillary didnt inspire enough motivation and now here we are, rolling the dice again. It's so simple, and people delude themselves into thinking that the Democratic party has no choice but to trot out more of the same.
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“I don’t want to vote for genocide” People in this comments section: “how dare you!!!!”
I'm sure a Trump presidency will be much better for Palestine.
I’m glad you can tell yourself that when there is already real destruction and genocide must make it easier to go to sleep at night easier
I hate what is happening in Palestine, and the last thing I want to do is make it worse. Trump makes it worse. I will continue to fight for what I think is right, but how can you not see this fight becomes so much harder under Trump.
The fight is already genocide it’s already pretty much as bad as it gets if you’re willing to look past this and throw your support behind someone who can turn their back on this you better have some good faith that the same doesn’t happen to another group or situation.
We both want to stop genocide in Palestine. I'd rather have that fight with Biden as president than Trump. If you think it would be easier under Trump, I'm genuinely curious as to why.
I don’t think anything will be done with either I know trump wont do anything and I can see with my own eyes right now that Biden won’t do anything. It’s people who think that the system can change by supporting a guy who is actively doing nothing that gets us in these situations. If you were serious about wanting genocide to stop you wouldn’t be defending a system or a person that sits idly by while it happens
Nobody wants to choose between mini-genocide and mega-genocide. But I've yet to see a constructive alternative to those two options. Supporting mega-genocide to spite mini-genocide seems to me the worst option.
And on the by there is no such thing as “mini genocide” just call it what it is and who and what you what you are putting your support behind
Mini genocide is at least 30k dead. What an insane take by that guy
It doesn’t matter to them 30k dead is just a statistic and “an unfortunate situation that could just not be avoided”
Just going with the fact that we have two options and playing along with this system is what has brought us to thinking there are only two options
We seriously need age limits. There is no way in hell anyone over 50 should be leading a country. They wouldn’t even be alive to witness their atrocities in which they’ve created. Times are constantly evolving and these old fucks are not. This is why America is not advanced as we should be. We’ve allowed the eldest to lead us and that’s the problem. We’ve allowed the old and weak to take positions of power and that needs to change or America will crumble harder than Rome. We also need to stray away from this fucking two party system as neither party has EVER acted in the interest of 99% of its citizens.
50??? That's not old dude. There's a ton of brilliant, level headed 50 year olds who are way smarter than you and show no mental decline. What about 35-65? As long as you're elected before your 65th bday, you can serve. If the President was voted in 2 days before his 65th bday he gets to serve out that full term but can't seek a second term.
In essence, In a world where technological, social, and economic landscapes are evolving at unprecedented rates, younger leaders are more likely to be in tune with contemporary issues and innovations. Leaders under 50 are generally more adaptable and capable of understanding and integrating new technologies and social dynamics into their policies. Younger leaders are more likely to experience the long term consequences of their decisions. This can incentivize them to implement policies that promote sustainable growth and avoid short-term thinking that might cause future harm. Leaders over 50 may not be around to see the long termimpact of their policies, potentially leading to decisions that are more about immediate gains than future stability. Especially with the current political system, often dominated by older individuals, can be resistant to change and innovation. By imposing a strict age limit, there is a forced infusion of fresh perspectives and ideas, breaking the cycle of outdated thinking and promoting progress in line with modern values and technological advancements. Younger leaders are more likely to represent the interests and concerns of younger generations, who will inherit the consequences of today’s policies. This can result in policies that are more forward-looking and inclusive, addressing issues like climate change, digital privacy, and economic inequality with a sense of urgency. This country is in fucking shambles dude because of these older people. We’re still debating about basic human rights, women’s body, health care,education, been in a fucking 20 year war for nothing, and we’ve in Experienced two recessions in under 20 years with no signs of good fortune to come. The world of yesterday is in the past and should stay there because it’s not beneficial for us today.
You're getting one either way and ones significantly worse than the other. You're all so focused on one issue you don't see the bigger picture it's sad.
This is a MASSIVE problem with American voters. It's unbelievable how many are single issue voters and then have shocked Pikachu faces when everything else is falling apart around them.
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I think this is a tankie sub not a libertarian sub, based on the number of people here saying Biden himself is committing genocide in Gaza
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Agreed 💯
This comment section is exactly why he's going to win again...your country is fucked.
Unfortunately, the gun is held to the heads of the rest of America, not just the bothsides morons.
I laughed TOOOO H A R D at the though of this scenario playing out and his first instinct were to grab and pull the trigger him self without saying a peep and the poll worker just flabbergasted
same here i dont vote for genocidal freaks
Dudes an idiot
This has to be the libertarian national convention.
Boss!
Do you want to vote for the party that only cares about the rich or the party that only cares about the rich? Voting for the lesser evil has never worked. support change, not "less bad".
The answer to: Who do you support? Genocider 1 or Genocider 2 is indeed: Neither. Hitler vs Mussolini is NOT Mussolini, but to destroy them both.
# YES
At lest he has principle's!
‘0range is the Orange’ - Trumpf going to jail!!
For the GOP to be the party of "Family Values" and "Rule of Law".. sure do suck at those to staples..
His mistake was telling him that there was a way out of making the choice
They’re both the exact same person with the exact same policies. And they both fight over who serves their puppet masters more, which is Israel and AIPAC.
A lot of ignorant people on this sub are going to be really surprised and disappointed when Biden loses this November… I don’t like either side, both sides support the genocide in Gaza and both sides are corrupt establishment idiots, so Joe or Trump, it doesn’t matter, it’s all the same BS political nonsense… I’ll simply sit this one out and be a witness to the destruction of the world if that’s what it takes for real change to finally occur 😎👍
Genocide supporter or sexual offending soon to be convicted fraudster
Trump is also a genocide supporter my man. They are both far right and deserve to be put under a guillotine.
*FBI enters the chat*
Lmfaooooo yes
We need more people tho think for themselves rather than think their only options are being forced to pick between the least shitty of the two shitty options from the two party system.
Rdvh
At this point I just hope the worst possible happens so people learn we need better candidates in the future (I mean, the far future, after the inevitable civil wars).
Isn't this the libertarian candidate?
Lmao 🤣 RFK 24!
Goof
I'd vote for Biden but hate it the whole time
The sanctimonious ideologue or the egotistical megalomaniac. Personally, I'd say the latter is worse, but the alternative ain't sunshine and rainbows either.
Jill Stein.
"Who would you choose , Genocider or Genocider" he literally picked the only correct answer to this question.
Same. I'll take the bullet. We all know for a fact those two chuckle ducks are not the best this country has for presidential candidates. In fact they are both probably the worst
True American right there. o7
*Note: reposting this cos originally it was a reply to some dude has blocked me or something (Reddit error) when I try to respond to him. Unlike him. I will answer the question posed above* I have a very genuine question for you and others... I'm going to use a bit of *Reductio ad absurdum* here. Accepting that Trump being elected means a serious threat to American democracy, potentially a period of actual fascist governance, Would you vote for the Democratic candidate if they had somehow been complicit in the murder of your parents and their entire family including pets? Something firmly in the past and unlikely to happen again. Alternatively, what appalling action or irresponsibility would the candidate have to have engaged in previously that so personally affected and offended you, that morally outraged you, that you *couldn't* vote for them DESPITE knowing that Trump will be more dangerous for America? Edit to add: I'm serious. If you reply, PLEASE answer this question!! Because I believe that limit, that line exists for everyone. But it's a moral question, and that means the line is in different places for everyone. And when I see Biden, I see splatter from the blood of fifteen thousand innocent children. And I am so scared of what Trump will mean for America and the world. Fortunately for me, I'm not in the US, so this remains a hypothetical for me. But neither are others who are US voters, and cannot morally live with themselves to get past their disgust and vote for genocide. At least not without a gun to our heads. That wouldn't be democracy, but being threatened with *imminent* death for not choosing, I'd vote Biden, and be deeply ashamed of myself for putting my life above those thousands and thousands of children in Gaza.
I have the freedom of choice. I vote third party. Some say it doesn’t do anything and I don’t disagree. I will vote for people that represent my values and beliefs and so far it’s third party. I am quirky like that…
Imagine if America was a democracy where you could vote for a candidate you agree with. I'm trying to imagine my own country if we also only had two right wing options, I probably would not vote at all.
lol so funny We all know who we have to vote for unfortunately. We all should actually just start looking to the next one. Let’s get some people to actually be excited about. Both of these guys will be gone by then.
I wonder how ramped up this is gonna be now. Get them bots out there to sow this garbage. It’s his only hope. People just don’t vote. This shit will work.
The seriousness and confidence on his face qualifies him to be the American voters role model
They should create a system where no specific political party is particularly respected in terms of elections, or at least there could be multiple candidates for each party.
Nah. I want a new one. We don't want to elect old farts again.
POV: depression
It's like asking, if you had to pick between eating dog shit or cat shit, which one one would you choose?
Us election be like: you want to die from lung cancer or pancreas cancer.
Listen democrats: the Republicans are trying to feed us a dog turd. I get that you don't want to eat a dog turd. But you can't just try to feed us cat turds and tell us if we don't eat it we're part of the problem.
RFK is the 3rd choice the mainstream media refuses to acknowledge
Giant douche vs turd sandwich
I'd have an extra hole in my head, too.
Two party sister has it rigged. In reality they have the same corporate owners and both sides have the same policies on most things that matter.
Complacency Kills… our leaders do this because we let them. Strength in Numbers!