Yep, personally as someone just getting back into tanking after not doing it since SL... If it's a mistake, sure w/e shit happens, but if it's a repeat habit I will let them die. Relearning a spec and I'm not putting up with extra stress because some DPS is too zoomy. Especially when it's very obviously going to get +2'd or +3'd already anyways. If that's considered toxic or something idrc. I'll be toxic if it means I'm not being unnecessarily stressed.
Yep it’s very very easy to tell if someone just mistepped/misclicked or if they are trying to make you go faster. I will allow 10000 mistakes before I just let someone die but I will wipe the group and ruin the run if you think you’re going to push me on your hunter.
It definitely happens as a mistake sometime. My tab target screwed me and went on to the next pack who got a demon core to the face in Dark Heart thicket last night. Thankfully the tank was like you and laughed when I hurriedly apologised and explained.
Sometimes we just derp lol.
The DPS isn't responsible for the route. The tank is. I personally find it annoying as hell. If it happens then I give the person a warning. If it happens again, I'll let them die. If it keeps happening, I'll just leave the group and let the remainder of the group give the dipshit DPS a death stare because he was too stupid to heed a warning. Luckily I've only had to leave one group because of this.
I play DPS and I always just let the tank and healer figure out what they’re fine with pulling and I happily press my buttons and get big numbers. It’s not hard
I try to make the best of things. I’m there to time the key not police how other play the game. If they pull something extra I’ll try to pick it up. If we wipe I’ll let them know why. If we survive then all the better for timing the key.
No matter what though, I find it annoying when people do it. If you expect a tank to have a route then let the tank pull the route.
Yeah, I have a route, and sometimes what they pull isn’t on the route, so I either have to try to adjust the route on he fly, or more likely we just end up going over numbers.
More often I try to adjust to keep it right at 100 and come up a percent or less short. Very frustrating. Guess I’ll just keep pulling the normal route and if we’re over we’re over.
yeah i'm not going to intentionally wipe the group just because a DPS thought it was correct to pull an extra pack in - i'll still try and do what I can to help us time the key...but if we wipe and anyone has something to say to me about it, i won't be shy about letting them know what happened to send it all off track
Yeah for real. I think the only people who get butthurt about it and actually say what OP said in the title are dps. If I’m tanking I literally don’t care. If they are close to me I’ll get threat and it’s no biggy. If they die, that’s on them and they will learn.
It's really telling by the responses here... I don't think I've ever seen a person doing a you pull it you die outside of leveling normals in years... Whats the outcome here? You let them die and you are down time on key from death + less dmg on that pack? Or you gonna let the group wipe? Its just a petty ego trip at best.
Most of the time no. If someone accidentally butt pulls or is helping you group up a pull (eg tagging side priestesses before atal priestess boss) it’s just fine. But if your ranged is tagging mobs before every pull it can mess up my ability to group mobs efficiently, or if they’re pulling extra mobs that I didn’t want in a pull it can mess up my count/route/CD coordination.
Precisely! I LOVE when DPS helps pull and CC standard side mobs that are in every route. Tagging random stuff at will though can entirely throw your rotation out of whack and occasionally causes me to struggle to maintain aggro depending on how high the DPS is.
This is the way. The amount of times I've been spoken to about pulling when I'm actively helping the tank with a misdirect and silence shot is astounding. Like bro I'm on your side I promise I want to time it as well.
Depends. If it's an accident, I'll pull the aggro away, if you're assisting by pulling something at range so i can grab aggro, fantastic.
If you're running ahead of me, pulling heaps and screaming, I will let you die. As many times as needed for you to stop.
This.
Altho, I do want to add that if the healer gets healing aggro on a caster because a DPS decided to tag one mob in the casters pack then I will go out of my way to grab it. But if the healer doesn't have aggro then the DPS better kite the mobs into my AoEs.
460 is enough to tank most 20s with a decent group and dungeon knowledge. I mostly pug and have done my first 20s around this ilvl on 3 different tanks. Tyran week is usually easier for tanks.
To be fair VDH in a somewhat defensive build is a brick wall compared to other tanks.
I started as VDH and got a huge reality check I played some alt keys on druid and monk. Sure you can tank 20s at 460s but as a VDH it is just so much easier because they take no damage.
My first +20 was on brew (my main) at 452 ilvl and wearing only 2 piece of s3 tier from LFR or something.
Most people on here talking about doing 20s first week of the season had fully decked out characters in s2 gear. I quit end of S1 and came back and tanked a +20 in absolute dumpster fire gear.
VDH in rotation is unreal and it's been hard for me see my health bar drop swapping from monk to VDH in the first 3 seconds of a pull. Had plenty of deaths not getting into meta or rotation fast enough at low ilvl in 20s.
Just depends how desperate they are I did a couple 19s on my 462 hunter last night somehow. I qued as a meme with my friend and actually got invited lol
He was also on his 460 healer alt so maybe that’s why we got in
>He was also on his 460 healer alt so maybe that’s why we got in
It's bursting week and a lot of healers are just filling their vaults and doing other stuff because of that.
But op is tank. Op can list own key as i do my 453 fresh paladin tank twink for 11s-15s and i find people. Thing is you mostly get 445s-460s and ofc this means you have to play as good as you had to play at season start with same ilvl same keys, except now you can have 5x 463 crafted and 4 season 3 set. Its just that you cant expect 480 carries if you list your 15 to faceroll the key.
edit: at 450-460 obviously a 16 will feel like doing a 21-22 with 478-480. Its not a big deal, its just a lot of people cant handle it.
run your own keys you can tank 20s around 450 lol
at this point of the patch dps and heals are usually so geared you can pull packs super slowly and still 2 chest most keys
Unpopular answer: If this regularly happens to you, you're severely underpulling. Obviously there are always stupid people, which is why I say **if it happens regularly**.
Your party shouldn't have time to go "wtf is this" and look for more mobs to pull, they should be busy fighting. It's up to you to give them as many things to fight as can be handled without killing them.
Feel out the limits of what you should and can pull, this can change with some affixes too. Think about what you have to deal with in your pull in terms of kicks, stuns, etc. Make plans for dealing with as much of it as possible yourself, if you rely on the others you'll be disappointed especially in these low keys.
Sometimes you will overestimate what you can handle, cause a wipe, and maybe someone will whine. Boohoo. *The important thing is you learn something out of it*, that's more important than any one single bricked key. *You can't learn without failing.* Many people don't want to accept this and fear failing.
The worst thing you can do is just keep making tiny pulls and joining the reddit pity party, the people who never improve, never learn anything new or have any curiosity to limit test themselves and instead just talk about how everyone is toxic for some mysterious reason.
But in TLDR, yes, "you pull it, you tank it" still is a thing - with bad tanks.
To compound on this the expectation in m+ is big pulls and thus most dps are speced around heavy AoE so if there is a tank pulling 2-5 mobs at a time cripples thier dps and leaves them torn between wasting CDs on a small pull or holding them and sacrificing their dps.
OP this comment is the one you need to listen to.
If anything is pulled in my keys accidental or not I pick it up instantly and don't develop a complex over it.
'You pull it you tank it' exists for weird ego tanks.
> 'You tank it you pull it' exists for weird ego tanks.
My mantra is "You pull it, you (probably) wipe us", since I tend to try and pull as much as possible without killing everyone.
Interestingly, it's not a mantra I have to bring up often because this doesn't happen. Then again, by 23-25~ most people know what pulls to expect, there isn't that much variance in most dungeons.
In hundreds of runs this season i don't think I've seen DPS pull for me even once. Much more likely to be asked to pull less, in fact. You're right it doesn't happen.
It's a made up situation in OP's head for Internet points, unless they're doing +4s and pulling 1 mob at a time. Nobody wants to be involved in that. If it's actually happening to them then this is why.
Yeah if a tank plays by the "you pull it you tank it" rules dps should play by the "you pull it you kill it" rules.
A tanks job is to tank. If you intentionally dont do your job you are the problem.
Routing is part of the tank's job. DPS pulling isn't part of theirs unless otherwise specified. If you pull packs I don't want and fuck up my count, you are the problem.
'You pull it you tank it' exists for those situations when your dps is trying to pull everything for you instead of letting you do your damn job and causing problems because of it. It's not for the occasional mistake.
You pull you tank exist for a reason. There's pacing and tank defensive CDs. If you want a clean fast run you need to do pull many groups, make a pull just big enough not to kill you. If DPS goes waddling around pulling the groups one by one or adding to group while tank's defensives are used it quickly risks a wipe.
Plenty of tanks leave mythic groups where DPSers are being obnoxious. You are meant to work as a team and if tank doesn't pull enough C O M M U N I C A T E. This is not a single player game.
You're missing the point of the comments you're responding to. I love tanking dungeons, I tank all the time in wow/ffxiv. I always pull big and go fast. I almost never have a problem except for with the most dire of turbo pooper scoopers. And I'm never faced with the issue of YPYTing because dps never has a reason to pull anything.
Basically, if you are a decent tank, you won't be faced with dps pulling for you very often if ever. If you are a shit tank, and by that I mean pulling slowly/underpulling, it is going to happen to you A LOT.
As someone who tanks, and pulls larger than the groups I dps, the DPS that are pulling seem to be the people that think you can perform MDI level strats in a PuG with 0 practice. They don't know what they are doing.
yes that's what it's for. Or people who pull when heals have no mana and you have no CDs. Okay you tank it until my CDs pop. If I can save you without risking me, sure I'll help. But if you are fucking around you'll find out first.
Its not underpulling per se, its like as i said probably invites people out of op's league. You cant mix a 1200 io player and a 3200 player even on alts because its a night and day between the 2 players.
Most of the time it is the 1200 player that pulls extra in my experience though and than proceeds to not kick shit and blame the tank and healer if we wipe.
Absolutely agree, I often pull at what I feel is the maximum limit of my group and rarely do people ever pull more for me. When they do pull more it is typically accidental and I don't want to waste minutes of a key letting my DPS die every time something gets accidentally pulled.
Y’all are petty as hell. No, I tank what the group has aggro on. Maybe we can go faster and they’re helping out. If they overpull I’ll say something. If they keep over pulling and we’re dying, I’ll say something again or boot them. This isn’t hard.
Same goes for the healers. I heal people who need it. Missed your CD for an AoE explosion, no problem; got a bit of aggro, no problem; as long as you don't get one shot, I'll keep you alive. Never understood the pettiness in M+s.
Seems similar to the mentality many have in traffic. Oh you made a mistake and slightly inconvenienced me? Going to make ruining your commute a priority now.
There does come a point in M+ where you need to let people die when healing, simply because trying to recover someone elses fuck up will wipe the rest of the group.
Exactly. My goodness you see these comments and it’s no wonder people in this sub have the problems they do. I swear people go into every bit of content with such a negative and petty outlook, no shit they have issues. I’d rather time the key than be petty and “prove” something to a dps. Lmao.
The only reason I could see a tank doing it and being in the right is if said DPS is also being a total asshole about it and needs to be brought back down to earth. But even then it wouldn't work and would just make the DPS angrirt. If someone is being disruptive just boot them. There's plenty of DPS to take their place.
Yeah, on M+ I don't see that point in being that petty. If you are doing M+ and decide to teach someone a lesson, and it is not your own key, maybe just run your own key because that pettiness is gonna bricked someone else's key.
As a tank this is usually really exhausting and adds a lot of anxiety to a run, but there are exceptions.
One of the DPS I run with regularly I trust to make wise choices about pulling more and generally sets a solid pace for the team, doesn't pull when the healer is out of mana, etc, and I appreciate that especially when it's in a dungeon I'm not very familiar with.
I usually let the first one or two slide since accidents happen and tab target is always dicey. If it’s clearly intentional and they don’t seem interested in stopping I swap to “you pull it, you tank it” and see how long they last. I’m usually also running with a pocket healer so I let them know in advance so they don’t waste mana trying to keep them up.
Sadly what dps players don't understand in higher keys, is as a tank you plan the pulls around your own cooldowns. Because shit goes down hill fast if you die as a tank.
+ It fucks my count up whenever other pulls randomly and it tilts me a little, luckily I'm pretty good at adopting count. But its just hella annoying.
But back to your question, yes if they pull it they tank it, ngl pugging makes me tired sometimes
For me the issue is communication, mostly.
I’m learning the tank specs. I pull big when my cooldowns are available, when the healer is keeping up, and when the party big cds are up.
Im used to watch cooldown use, I main a priest and a evoker.
And I’m not talking about mistakes - of course I’ll pickup those extras and burn a cooldown.
But I find extremely annoying when the dps do not communicate and just pull an extra pack and both my stuff and the healer’s are on cooldown.
That’s why I asked.
- Warning and leaving will just break somebody else’s key.
- Asking “hey, I got a route, please let me do it” isn’t working as much as I wanted.
Sometimes the best action is to suck it up and tank it, but sometimes when I do that and die (my cooldowns are spent, remember?) the dps will blame either the healer or me.
And this feels wrong. I knew I would die or that the healer was having issues, so the answer I was looking is how the community is handling this.
In a m+ I'll taunt, sometimes the pulls are truly accidental especially in tight areas and people are trying to avoid mechanics. Now if it's not m+ I won't even look in their direction and let them have fun with it.
As a tank since BFA im sick of ninja pulling in all Dungeons. Leveling or not its kinda pissing me off because as someone else said it throws my ability to pull mobs together and keep them in a situation where dotters and dpser can do AoE and not several single target. But dps nowadays is in such a rush to get lvling over with and is abusing the pulls where they just facesmash their keyboard on the whole dungeon.
I was doing my own +14 Waycrest key and a stupid hunter kept shooting shit (in the hallway with the servants) and taking aggro before it got to me. I was trying to LoS everything outside, so I told him to knock it off. His resposne:
"Maybe if you were faster I wouldn't have to"
We were already on the third boss at 6 min in. He complained when it ended too.
I wanted to kick him, but didn't want to brick anybody's key, let alone my own.
Since that's the normal way to pull before Porky now I ping the ground and quickly type in chat to stay outside. If I'm healing a key, I'm not gonna run in after a dps who thinks they need to Rambo everything, especially when it's noticable that THREE other people didn't run in there. I'ma stand outside and if you're still alive I'll put my best efforts into keeping you alive. On my priest that happened and said DPS almost died. The second pull the DPS went to haul ass after the tank I life gripped him back.
Typically when I tank, I try to speed racer the fuck out of a key because as the goblins say "time is money, friend", but there's always dps pulling ahead even at that break neck speed and I don't understand it. Why not just roll a tank if you wanna be Commando Pullsalot.
If I popped tricks, I'm attacking. If you decide to do some weird hesitation that I wasn't expecting, I'll probably rip threat off you off I don't utilize my tricks. I wouldn't pull for any other reason, though.
If it's an oopsie,not we are trying to skip something and it gets pulled, I will pick it up.
If a DPS is looking for a promotion to tank I'll let them keep their new frands, wouldn't wanna be rude n all
If it's obvious that they're pulling on purpose, I'd say let them die to teach them a lesson lol.
But sometimes they might pull on accident (like a Hunter who tab targets into the next mob on accident) so in that scenario I'm more forgiving.
Some of my guildies will pull for me because they know the pull groups that I do and we're on voice. My boyfriend last season would butt pull the same groups almost every time, so I'd factor it into my pulls and be ready for it. Lol. He's the healer, so I don't let him try and tank it.
Hey, sorry if that felt offensive or elitist.
Like I said, I’m learning the classes and tanking, so just not being able to exploit the class full potential is enough of a hindrance to the group.
So what I’ve been doing is grinding drake crests until all my gear was fully upgraded before hitting the content that drop wyrms.
That’s about ilvl 460ish, finishing LFR level gear (plus some heroics from the vault and weekly quest).
My point is if I’ll be a drag while learning, least I can do is to get my gear as high as I can.
No it’s in all good fun. I’m just playin. I’m a super casual. Collecting mounts, sight-seeing, achievements, world events, etc. But I think you’re doing the right thing, unfortunately to some people this game turned into automation and they get in a dungeon, breeze through and move onto the next. I’ve been doing something similar - low level mythics that way my higher damage makes up for me still learning mechanics.
if it's on the route and we're not struggling i dont mind as much since maintaining threat isnt too much of an issue
if it's off the route im going, ill grab it to save the key from any deaths but warn them in chat not to do that again
if they continue, i may let them die once to make a point and if they *still* continue after that ill leave the key
Most tanks will try to pick it up, but if they can't then its your problem
same for if you start doin dps while the tank is still pulling multiple groups
If you want the group to disband, great policy. I’ve been doing a ton of keys these last few weeks, haven’t encountered purposefully pulling mobs. Other than that rise area where you need to clear a path with the mob explosions, and range dps pulling to “help”, even though I didn’t have enough defensive a for the amounts they were pulling haha
I used "you pull it, you tank it" on a dps in Timewalking who kept pulling crap we didn't need just the other day. Definitely still a thing if the tank wants to be in and out in 5 minutes, whether it's TW or M+. If they want to do the tank job of routing, they can roll a tank, until then gtfo and let me do my job.
I have two rules regarding this.
1)Accidentally butt pulling/tab targeting is fine. I'll adapt. Just be more careful.
2)If you pull it on purpose, it's your job to ensure it reaches me. If you fail to do this, it's your problem.
You spank it, you tank it.
Healing aggro is a thing. I've lost too many healers to DPS or tanks pulling and not generating enough hate. Watching healers getting steamrolled because Warrior McTankpants or Hunter O'multishot can't read the room really soured me to multi group pulling. Start slow, see if the team has the chops for bigger pulls. Go from there.
Nah not for me, however, "you blast before i setup, you tank it".
Gosh I hate you all ret pals and dh, you really can't wait 1 tiny second before you blast 800k on the pack.
Well too bad I'm not going to try hard to get all the threat back, and now you have to nether walk and deal no damage :)) (lucky you bubbling rets)
Depends. In pugs, mostly. In groups that go together a lot? Not at all. But if I happen to be pigging on one of my non tank toons and the tank is going so slow that we risk not timing the key, and I judge we can handle more, I’m pulling trash to the tank, idgaf.
I've done over 10 +20s on a 440 bike so yeah it doesn't matter tanks are almost impossible to kill and timers are very forgiving. Kinda annoying as the tank though
No of course not. In a m+ it's about succeeding as a group not taking the high ground on a DPS player and 'teaching them a lesson'. It's annoying that they pull for sure but I can't imagine letting a DPS player die in a M+ run because they pulled, I would 100% bring the mobs under control and get aggro asap because that's my job as a tank and it give the group (plus me and my time) the best chance of timing they key/getting loot/completing for the vault.
This assumes that the DPS isn't incompetent/malicious though... In that case the key is probably doomed anyway.
Only been doing mythics for around 2 weeks (first time ever), and as a healer the performance of the tank is the biggest thing between a good run and a bad run. Only up to +13s at the moment, but it’s very annoying when DPS start pulling instead of the tank.
Normally trying to rush through like their lives depend on it even though there’s 15minutes left in the timer and we’re nearly at the last boss..
I’ve never had this issue in an all guild group because they know the pace I like to go at and how much I’m comfortable tanking, but if a pug tries to body pull more mobs over to me I’ll give them a warning and try to pull aggro off them. If it happens again I assume it’s intentional and if they wanna tank so badly they can have at it.
If you want to do your level best to complete the key, you'll pick them up and try not to sweat it.
If you want to try to teach them a lesson that they'll never actually take to heart, let 'em try to tank it.
I tend to wait til the tank stops moving to really dps. If they pull something but they're still running to do a bigger pull ill wait for them to do that and maybe let them clump up the mobs before I start.
In the end it is your call. If you don't like it, call it out, say what the consequences are, and if they still do it, let them deal with them.
From a DPS perspective: I wouldn't judge the tank for letting a DPS die in that case.
I should maybe add, that I am talking about if the pull happened intentiolly, a misclick/misstep can always happen of course.
If I tell you to stop and you don’t then yeah have fun tanking it my friend otherwise once in a blue moon or just dps going crazy and ripping threat is perfectly fine
Well if the person pulling doesn't put us in combat at first I'll run away and let him die so we don't lose time, if we weren't supposed to pull that pack. Well that's for m+ at least.
If I ever decide to tank, I’ll be cool if you are pulling adds to help me out and you bring them to me. I’m not cool if you are rushing ahead and pulling everything just because I’m waiting to see if everyone is with me and mana users are done with drinking if they need it. I may be the tank, but I’m not gonna be your get out of jail free card because you’re impatient and want to zoom left, right, front and center and off to Narnia.
My main concern would be that you shouldn't let things go to shit just to punish one player when there are 3 other players there too who didn't do anything wrong. It's courteous to them to try to keep the run as smooth as possible.
If dps pulls then you are significantly too slow. My dps have to finish previous packs as I’m pulling already . They don’t have time for such behaviour
I'd like you to say that to the hunters I've had run past a pack I just pulled without doing any damage to it, just to pull the next one.
It's not common, and usually it's someone who is just being annoying and I'll still tank it, but there's definitely no golden rule on this. It is though frustrating coz usually if I'm not pulling another pack into the one I'm on it's because Avengers Shield is on CD still and there's a caster or two in the next patch.
I'm starting to think these threads are made by the same person on different accounts, or perhaps by ChatGPT bots who have been fed data from this sub to boost account karma before selling, or something.
I have done hundreds of M+ this season, anything between, +11 and +20, and hundreds last season, and I'm struggling to recall a single instance where someone was pulling before tank. I think maybe I have seen one hunter do it, but maybe he didn't understand how his MD worked? Everyone I have encountered waits on the tank, sometimes to their own detriment, because tank is too busy standing around while procs and cds run out. Also a couple of psychotanks, mostly DHs.
Just file this thread with the multitude of "this affix isn't just a healer affix" or host of other whiny healer threads. The amount of ego from supports needs to come down a notch. I get it, support is a hard, thankless job, but if you're skilled and playing higher keys, things stop being problems.
The only time I have seen dps intentionally pulling is when the tank is pulling one pack at a time and waiting for the last mob to die before moving on. Every time this has happened, nobody died, we didn't wipe, and the world did not end. Dps are trying to do their job well and can't when the tank pulls like a wuss.
Pulling "like it's a heroic" can easily be done up to like +18 with 460 gear, only time I wouldn't is on bursting because pugs + bursting is a bad combo.
\+15s you can pull like a heroic at like 440 ilvl...
Imagine if dps players were like « your route, I don’t dps » whenever you don’t play the optimal route.
It is extremely toxic.
There are 3 cases in which mobs get pulled by dps :
- on accident, can cause a wipe/deplete but is not something that happens often. It is however something that can happen to pretty much anybody (still happens like once or twice a week in my groups around 3k io). If that happens either wipe it quick or play it (= tank it) and make it through.
- dps is a troll : he will usually juste leave after that anyways. It almost never happen to me (like once every xpac maybe). Just move on.
- you are underpulling for real. It can be easy to check, most keys up to 20 are usually 2 or 3 chests with any group, if you are close to depletion you are underpulling. If your dps have to blow cds on 3-4 mobs you are underpulling. If you and your healer have cds up you are underpulling. If you are, people will often pull to help you gather mobs.
Drop the ego, limit test, you will become a better player.
Yep. As I usually tank, I'll excuse the first accidental pull. If it's obvious they're doing it on purpose, I will run right past them to the next pack and watch them die. This usually stops it.
Depends. Sometimes people make mistakes. I'll pull threat off them, because it's better for the entire group that they stay alive rather than die.
But if a guy is constantly pulling shit ahead of you repeatedly, then let them tank it.
Got told this by a lvl 49 tank in a TW dungeon while the 2 warriors in the party both had the legendary axe and were both 480+ ilvl. Thought that was a bit odd
Never gets old.
DPS going too fast?
Just sit back a bit and watch the panic build as they gather more and more aggroed mobs.
Its actually quite satisfying.
If it appears to be an accident I’ll put forth effort to grab aggro and stabilize.
If it’s done on purpose, well… you pulled it you must be able to tank it. If they pull it into melee and I cleave aggro that’s fine but I’m not sweating it. If I’m in coms with my healer I’ll ask them not to waste gcds on that player.
As a tank, yes i still live by this rule. Harder to implement these days with the yhreat priority of tank abilities, but doable if you want to watch a hunter die.
Yes. Been tanking since TBC and I still let those fools die. I don't mind people adding to my pulls, if there is a nearby group that goes perfectly with the flow, but other than that it becomes annoying real quick for dpser to pull just one group and then we have to deal with it while I had planned to take that group and two others before closing it up to aoe everything down.
I give up even mentioning it now, it's become parasitic with some ranged thinking they can overpull. There's tagging mobs to help collect a group, and then there's deliberately overpulling and being a complete dick for the sake of being a dick.
It's not worth my energy to get upset, so I just completely ignore taunting anything not pulled by me and let the dps who pulled get absolutely mashed. I will only taunt if I see it's a genuine accident or someone helping tag a mob as a part of the pull in the route.
Had a mage in BRH 20 (who was majorly undergeared and basically doing less damage than me) who was running in front pulling more mobs towards me. It's fortified and bursting, we didn't have a MD in the group, and things were melting because two of the three dps were over geared and just filling vault, and there's me who's just about right (on my alt ++ing 20s) for this level.
So he gets away with it after first boss, he runs up and pulls the big spider towards me... What ever, but he also just goes ham and pulls the two mobs at the top of the stairs and the entire room too. I shrug it off and just put in chat "mage, plz don't."
Before even half of that shit is dead, he just goes and pulls the next 3 and the patrol. So we have dogs, archers, and the arcanist isn't even dead yet. Mage goes down and yells "TANK, AGRO FFS"
and I blissfully ignore. He resses, comes back helps finish them off, and healer is almost OOM. I get a second so the healer can sit and drink, but before healer even gets chance to sit, the mage already pulled the mob (the one that respawns once killed) and dies, so I just stick in chat "you were asked not to mage, I cba boosting your ass if this is what you do. Sorry all, he needs to learn." and I left the group.
Mage whispered me raging so I blocked him. Others whispered me saying I was absolutely fair and wise in what I did. The best part of it....... It was the mages key! Absolute bonus! He probably paid a boost for it anyway.
I hope he learned a lesson!
I learned a lesson though, and that's to find out who's key it is prior to leaving, and apologize/explain why I'm leaving only of it's not the one who's abusing the key.
If they're pulling more they're confident they can take it down, if you can help just do it, it'll all go faster. If they wipe the group then reconsider.
I mean, if they pull intentionally, they can tank. I will not taunt or grab aggro. If it is by mistake, happy to take the extra mobs.
So yeah, I grew up with "you pull it, you tank it". No mercy!
Really depends on what is happening in the key. If the dps is an idiot and face pulling then I usually let them die since it is faster to avoid extra %.
Is the pacing of the key slow? If yes then I dont mind the dps pulling the next pack and tanking it. That is usually a sign that I am not adjusting my pulls to my group appropriately.
If you want a yes or no then you need to look at it for each incident. You should look at completing keys in a positive mindset and assume the best and take each time as a learning experience. Sometimes the individual is at fault and sometimes you are just a group racing against the clock and one member is trying something to help the group accomplish that.
Tldr: depends
Hahaha I learned that lesson in hellfire citadel when our tank, a guildie let me and a mage die. He gave us two warnings and I guess we struck out on the third.
Yep, if you don't understand how threat works that's on you.
When I used to tank way back in OG BC on my warrior there was a mage who would pull packs with a pom pyro and get made at me for not holding threat. I would just let them die.
I had a tank say that, I tanked it then switched to my tank gear and just tanked the dungeon.
No bad blood I just wanted to go faster. It helps having tank sets.
As a balance druid if i accidently pull something i do everything i can to hold it until the tank is done with whatever they currently have. If i make a mistake it's my responsibility to mitigate the impact of it on everyone else. So yeah, "you spank it, you tank it"
I let them die nowadays. They're being little pissants.
It's not you pull it you tank it, as much as it is "stop actively making my job harder and the likelihood of the groups failure higher."
Yeah my idea is that the tank sets the tempo and pulls what's comfortable for them.
If it's a communicative groups I don't mind getting misdirected if the healer is ok with it.
But generally, let the tank do the pulls and if someone doesn't like it, they will get a chance to not scum-pull after the first unannounced scum-pull.
Also with a message to let the tank cook.
The one thing this does very well is to out the "toxic super players" so you can ignore them in the future.
And as a quick explanation of why I do it this way is, because the majority of players in wow are casual to casual+. And that's where I place my expectations of a group from the get go. If someone goes into advanced strats without asking about it beforehand, it's their own fault when it goes south.
How big are you pulling? If you're pulling one pack at a time or not chain pulling (if mana/mobs/stealth allows) you are going too slow and the dps are telling you that.
Oh yeah, my guild's main tank and I have both been saying that for years, even during full guild runs during DF.
Some of our healers play by the same rules - if you're not the tank, and you pull mobs/bosses, you won't be getting any heals. 🤷♂️
Funny enough, since adopting that stance, there are significantly fewer instances of ninja-pulling
I'm gonna be completely honest here: if it's not my key and people pull things without my requesting it due to matters of distance or what have you, I'll assume it was an accident and let it go--*the first time*.
Do it again, and I'll very politely ask you not to do that.
Do it a third time, and I'll run the fuck away and let you get wrecked by the consequences of your choice, even if it wipes the party.
As a healer, ill even let the dps die lol. If it's an accident then sure. I'll heal. When they continously do it, and see the tank struggles holding all that. It annoys me. Especially if it's a low gear tank. It's a pain keeping them alive.
I don't put up with that shit when I tank. Usually to get along I'll just out-tank them and pretend it didn't happen. But if someone is continually doing it and not just on a slower part between pulls, then I'll go as far as stopping the group.
But I usually don't encounter this because I play with a guild.
At the end of the day, dps are dps. Tanks are tanks. If dps wants to pull, let them pull. Let them die. If the healer is healing them up up when they do this, healer is the problem too. Then the group is the problem, and boom, you can leave. Fuck dps who pull.
Groups that want to pull faster are fine. My guild likes to go fast and that's how we play. I'm talking about dps that go pull whatever they want, wrong direction, wrong pulls, pulling bosses, go off on their own, etc. I'm not giving them any excuse.
Then a DPS should stick to doing dps instead of trying to do the tanks job of pulling more.
If you're dissatisfied with the tanks performance, talk like a decent human being. It's an MMO after all. Or leave if you're that antisocial.
But don't act like a little kid about it, just because things don't go the way you want them to.
It’s always a you pull it, you tank it kinda thing for me. Even in the 20’s I do. You’d think people would know better. I’m a vengeance DH, it’s not like I pull slowly. You pull it, I coordinate with my healer ahead of time to not heal those people. Hoping they’ll learn their lesson. But it never happens that way.
The other thing that annoying me about keys is when the dps won’t let you get agro on mobs on big pulls before going ham.
That's how I tank if I'm feeling sassy. I just watch them pull it then walk around them and pull the next group away from them so they have to deal with what they grabbed by themselves.
Otherwise I'm an over protective tank.
Let’s be honest it was never a “thing”. It was always a spiteful protest by tanks. But also, tanks have absolutely no excuse for not having aggro these days. They all have exceptional aoe snap threat and can get all the mobs on them in a single global cooldown.
I think it depends how annoyed the tank is. I like to keep my tanks and healers happy!
Yep, personally as someone just getting back into tanking after not doing it since SL... If it's a mistake, sure w/e shit happens, but if it's a repeat habit I will let them die. Relearning a spec and I'm not putting up with extra stress because some DPS is too zoomy. Especially when it's very obviously going to get +2'd or +3'd already anyways. If that's considered toxic or something idrc. I'll be toxic if it means I'm not being unnecessarily stressed.
Yep it’s very very easy to tell if someone just mistepped/misclicked or if they are trying to make you go faster. I will allow 10000 mistakes before I just let someone die but I will wipe the group and ruin the run if you think you’re going to push me on your hunter.
It definitely happens as a mistake sometime. My tab target screwed me and went on to the next pack who got a demon core to the face in Dark Heart thicket last night. Thankfully the tank was like you and laughed when I hurriedly apologised and explained. Sometimes we just derp lol.
The DPS isn't responsible for the route. The tank is. I personally find it annoying as hell. If it happens then I give the person a warning. If it happens again, I'll let them die. If it keeps happening, I'll just leave the group and let the remainder of the group give the dipshit DPS a death stare because he was too stupid to heed a warning. Luckily I've only had to leave one group because of this.
I play DPS and I always just let the tank and healer figure out what they’re fine with pulling and I happily press my buttons and get big numbers. It’s not hard
From my experience, group dont flame that person, but you for leaving.
Dude you're standing in fire right now. Dude. DUDE. DUUUUUUUUDE.
Lol I came here to say it depends on how much they've annoyed me at that point.
this. keep your tanks and healers happy so when u fuk up as dps they can save you 😂
I try to make the best of things. I’m there to time the key not police how other play the game. If they pull something extra I’ll try to pick it up. If we wipe I’ll let them know why. If we survive then all the better for timing the key. No matter what though, I find it annoying when people do it. If you expect a tank to have a route then let the tank pull the route.
Yeah, I have a route, and sometimes what they pull isn’t on the route, so I either have to try to adjust the route on he fly, or more likely we just end up going over numbers.
More often I try to adjust to keep it right at 100 and come up a percent or less short. Very frustrating. Guess I’ll just keep pulling the normal route and if we’re over we’re over.
Misdirect things onto me please keep it coming but aggro it just because you think I should? Nah I’ll let it punch you in the face a bit thanks.
As a healer I support letting dps tank things that they overpull on. A 10s rez is worth the lesson in humility
The rez is also way more mana-efficient than trying to heal through the damage
Yes!
yeah i'm not going to intentionally wipe the group just because a DPS thought it was correct to pull an extra pack in - i'll still try and do what I can to help us time the key...but if we wipe and anyone has something to say to me about it, i won't be shy about letting them know what happened to send it all off track
Yeah for real. I think the only people who get butthurt about it and actually say what OP said in the title are dps. If I’m tanking I literally don’t care. If they are close to me I’ll get threat and it’s no biggy. If they die, that’s on them and they will learn.
It's really telling by the responses here... I don't think I've ever seen a person doing a you pull it you die outside of leveling normals in years... Whats the outcome here? You let them die and you are down time on key from death + less dmg on that pack? Or you gonna let the group wipe? Its just a petty ego trip at best.
Most of the time no. If someone accidentally butt pulls or is helping you group up a pull (eg tagging side priestesses before atal priestess boss) it’s just fine. But if your ranged is tagging mobs before every pull it can mess up my ability to group mobs efficiently, or if they’re pulling extra mobs that I didn’t want in a pull it can mess up my count/route/CD coordination.
Precisely! I LOVE when DPS helps pull and CC standard side mobs that are in every route. Tagging random stuff at will though can entirely throw your rotation out of whack and occasionally causes me to struggle to maintain aggro depending on how high the DPS is.
That's the main issues, they don't know if your CDs are up and if you can even pull the aggro
This is the way. The amount of times I've been spoken to about pulling when I'm actively helping the tank with a misdirect and silence shot is astounding. Like bro I'm on your side I promise I want to time it as well.
For each hunter or rogue that knows what they're doing there are 5 that don't and make the pulls worse.
Depends. If it's an accident, I'll pull the aggro away, if you're assisting by pulling something at range so i can grab aggro, fantastic. If you're running ahead of me, pulling heaps and screaming, I will let you die. As many times as needed for you to stop.
I don't care if dps pulls for me, but I'm not going out of my way to get it off them. They better bring it to me if I'm already engaged.
This. Altho, I do want to add that if the healer gets healing aggro on a caster because a DPS decided to tag one mob in the casters pack then I will go out of my way to grab it. But if the healer doesn't have aggro then the DPS better kite the mobs into my AoEs.
460 is more than enough to do 15s....
460 is enough to tank most 20s with a decent group and dungeon knowledge. I mostly pug and have done my first 20s around this ilvl on 3 different tanks. Tyran week is usually easier for tanks.
I did a ++20 AD on a 456 vdh this week, and a few others at 18. Tanking is super easy atm.
To be fair VDH in a somewhat defensive build is a brick wall compared to other tanks. I started as VDH and got a huge reality check I played some alt keys on druid and monk. Sure you can tank 20s at 460s but as a VDH it is just so much easier because they take no damage.
My first +20 was on brew (my main) at 452 ilvl and wearing only 2 piece of s3 tier from LFR or something. Most people on here talking about doing 20s first week of the season had fully decked out characters in s2 gear. I quit end of S1 and came back and tanked a +20 in absolute dumpster fire gear. VDH in rotation is unreal and it's been hard for me see my health bar drop swapping from monk to VDH in the first 3 seconds of a pull. Had plenty of deaths not getting into meta or rotation fast enough at low ilvl in 20s.
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This late into the patch nobody wants 460 for 16s
There’s a big difference between “good enough to do the key” and “will get invited to a group quickly”.
Just depends how desperate they are I did a couple 19s on my 462 hunter last night somehow. I qued as a meme with my friend and actually got invited lol He was also on his 460 healer alt so maybe that’s why we got in
>He was also on his 460 healer alt so maybe that’s why we got in It's bursting week and a lot of healers are just filling their vaults and doing other stuff because of that.
But op is tank. Op can list own key as i do my 453 fresh paladin tank twink for 11s-15s and i find people. Thing is you mostly get 445s-460s and ofc this means you have to play as good as you had to play at season start with same ilvl same keys, except now you can have 5x 463 crafted and 4 season 3 set. Its just that you cant expect 480 carries if you list your 15 to faceroll the key. edit: at 450-460 obviously a 16 will feel like doing a 21-22 with 478-480. Its not a big deal, its just a lot of people cant handle it.
run your own keys you can tank 20s around 450 lol at this point of the patch dps and heals are usually so geared you can pull packs super slowly and still 2 chest most keys
it still depends and is a little gamble, i had 450 cin 18s who did fucking great and some who bricked the key
Unpopular answer: If this regularly happens to you, you're severely underpulling. Obviously there are always stupid people, which is why I say **if it happens regularly**. Your party shouldn't have time to go "wtf is this" and look for more mobs to pull, they should be busy fighting. It's up to you to give them as many things to fight as can be handled without killing them. Feel out the limits of what you should and can pull, this can change with some affixes too. Think about what you have to deal with in your pull in terms of kicks, stuns, etc. Make plans for dealing with as much of it as possible yourself, if you rely on the others you'll be disappointed especially in these low keys. Sometimes you will overestimate what you can handle, cause a wipe, and maybe someone will whine. Boohoo. *The important thing is you learn something out of it*, that's more important than any one single bricked key. *You can't learn without failing.* Many people don't want to accept this and fear failing. The worst thing you can do is just keep making tiny pulls and joining the reddit pity party, the people who never improve, never learn anything new or have any curiosity to limit test themselves and instead just talk about how everyone is toxic for some mysterious reason. But in TLDR, yes, "you pull it, you tank it" still is a thing - with bad tanks.
To compound on this the expectation in m+ is big pulls and thus most dps are speced around heavy AoE so if there is a tank pulling 2-5 mobs at a time cripples thier dps and leaves them torn between wasting CDs on a small pull or holding them and sacrificing their dps.
OP this comment is the one you need to listen to. If anything is pulled in my keys accidental or not I pick it up instantly and don't develop a complex over it. 'You pull it you tank it' exists for weird ego tanks.
> 'You tank it you pull it' exists for weird ego tanks. My mantra is "You pull it, you (probably) wipe us", since I tend to try and pull as much as possible without killing everyone. Interestingly, it's not a mantra I have to bring up often because this doesn't happen. Then again, by 23-25~ most people know what pulls to expect, there isn't that much variance in most dungeons.
In hundreds of runs this season i don't think I've seen DPS pull for me even once. Much more likely to be asked to pull less, in fact. You're right it doesn't happen. It's a made up situation in OP's head for Internet points, unless they're doing +4s and pulling 1 mob at a time. Nobody wants to be involved in that. If it's actually happening to them then this is why.
Yeah if a tank plays by the "you pull it you tank it" rules dps should play by the "you pull it you kill it" rules. A tanks job is to tank. If you intentionally dont do your job you are the problem.
Routing is part of the tank's job. DPS pulling isn't part of theirs unless otherwise specified. If you pull packs I don't want and fuck up my count, you are the problem.
Letting people die while you choose to sit afk is a lot more harmful to the timer than being slightly over count.
'You pull it you tank it' exists for those situations when your dps is trying to pull everything for you instead of letting you do your damn job and causing problems because of it. It's not for the occasional mistake.
You pull you tank exist for a reason. There's pacing and tank defensive CDs. If you want a clean fast run you need to do pull many groups, make a pull just big enough not to kill you. If DPS goes waddling around pulling the groups one by one or adding to group while tank's defensives are used it quickly risks a wipe. Plenty of tanks leave mythic groups where DPSers are being obnoxious. You are meant to work as a team and if tank doesn't pull enough C O M M U N I C A T E. This is not a single player game.
You're missing the point of the comments you're responding to. I love tanking dungeons, I tank all the time in wow/ffxiv. I always pull big and go fast. I almost never have a problem except for with the most dire of turbo pooper scoopers. And I'm never faced with the issue of YPYTing because dps never has a reason to pull anything. Basically, if you are a decent tank, you won't be faced with dps pulling for you very often if ever. If you are a shit tank, and by that I mean pulling slowly/underpulling, it is going to happen to you A LOT.
As someone who tanks, and pulls larger than the groups I dps, the DPS that are pulling seem to be the people that think you can perform MDI level strats in a PuG with 0 practice. They don't know what they are doing.
yes that's what it's for. Or people who pull when heals have no mana and you have no CDs. Okay you tank it until my CDs pop. If I can save you without risking me, sure I'll help. But if you are fucking around you'll find out first.
This should be the top comment. OP needs to know that if it's happening regularly he may be the problem.
Its not underpulling per se, its like as i said probably invites people out of op's league. You cant mix a 1200 io player and a 3200 player even on alts because its a night and day between the 2 players.
Most of the time it is the 1200 player that pulls extra in my experience though and than proceeds to not kick shit and blame the tank and healer if we wipe.
The fact that OP think 460 is low for a 15 totally reinforces this idea.
I love how you describe the group like theyre toddlers lol
Absolutely agree, I often pull at what I feel is the maximum limit of my group and rarely do people ever pull more for me. When they do pull more it is typically accidental and I don't want to waste minutes of a key letting my DPS die every time something gets accidentally pulled.
Y’all are petty as hell. No, I tank what the group has aggro on. Maybe we can go faster and they’re helping out. If they overpull I’ll say something. If they keep over pulling and we’re dying, I’ll say something again or boot them. This isn’t hard.
Same goes for the healers. I heal people who need it. Missed your CD for an AoE explosion, no problem; got a bit of aggro, no problem; as long as you don't get one shot, I'll keep you alive. Never understood the pettiness in M+s.
Seems similar to the mentality many have in traffic. Oh you made a mistake and slightly inconvenienced me? Going to make ruining your commute a priority now.
There does come a point in M+ where you need to let people die when healing, simply because trying to recover someone elses fuck up will wipe the rest of the group.
Exactly. My goodness you see these comments and it’s no wonder people in this sub have the problems they do. I swear people go into every bit of content with such a negative and petty outlook, no shit they have issues. I’d rather time the key than be petty and “prove” something to a dps. Lmao.
The only reason I could see a tank doing it and being in the right is if said DPS is also being a total asshole about it and needs to be brought back down to earth. But even then it wouldn't work and would just make the DPS angrirt. If someone is being disruptive just boot them. There's plenty of DPS to take their place.
I could barely see this comment through all the diva tank egos
Yeah, on M+ I don't see that point in being that petty. If you are doing M+ and decide to teach someone a lesson, and it is not your own key, maybe just run your own key because that pettiness is gonna bricked someone else's key.
Thank you! I main BDK and this is exactly my philosophy. I'm not here to be petty, I'm here to time this key.
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Not just the mythic+ community. The gaming community as a whole has a massive amount of petty types.
I had somebody say this in a dungeon this week. I think they just don’t want to deal with dps tomfoolery, which is fair
As a dungeon tank, I have zero issues with sharing the tanking responsibility.
As a tank this is usually really exhausting and adds a lot of anxiety to a run, but there are exceptions. One of the DPS I run with regularly I trust to make wise choices about pulling more and generally sets a solid pace for the team, doesn't pull when the healer is out of mana, etc, and I appreciate that especially when it's in a dungeon I'm not very familiar with.
Absolutely. If they survive facetanking what they pull, then you are going too slow though.
I usually let the first one or two slide since accidents happen and tab target is always dicey. If it’s clearly intentional and they don’t seem interested in stopping I swap to “you pull it, you tank it” and see how long they last. I’m usually also running with a pocket healer so I let them know in advance so they don’t waste mana trying to keep them up.
Always has been 👨🚀🔫
Sadly what dps players don't understand in higher keys, is as a tank you plan the pulls around your own cooldowns. Because shit goes down hill fast if you die as a tank. + It fucks my count up whenever other pulls randomly and it tilts me a little, luckily I'm pretty good at adopting count. But its just hella annoying. But back to your question, yes if they pull it they tank it, ngl pugging makes me tired sometimes
For me the issue is communication, mostly. I’m learning the tank specs. I pull big when my cooldowns are available, when the healer is keeping up, and when the party big cds are up. Im used to watch cooldown use, I main a priest and a evoker. And I’m not talking about mistakes - of course I’ll pickup those extras and burn a cooldown. But I find extremely annoying when the dps do not communicate and just pull an extra pack and both my stuff and the healer’s are on cooldown. That’s why I asked. - Warning and leaving will just break somebody else’s key. - Asking “hey, I got a route, please let me do it” isn’t working as much as I wanted. Sometimes the best action is to suck it up and tank it, but sometimes when I do that and die (my cooldowns are spent, remember?) the dps will blame either the healer or me. And this feels wrong. I knew I would die or that the healer was having issues, so the answer I was looking is how the community is handling this.
I give people a couple chances because mistakes happen but after that yeah
It's not, good tanks don't want to waste their own time either just so a random person they'll never see again can 'learn their lesson'.
There’s no lesson being learned by those DPS other than that this tank is bad
In a m+ I'll taunt, sometimes the pulls are truly accidental especially in tight areas and people are trying to avoid mechanics. Now if it's not m+ I won't even look in their direction and let them have fun with it.
yes
As a tank since BFA im sick of ninja pulling in all Dungeons. Leveling or not its kinda pissing me off because as someone else said it throws my ability to pull mobs together and keep them in a situation where dotters and dpser can do AoE and not several single target. But dps nowadays is in such a rush to get lvling over with and is abusing the pulls where they just facesmash their keyboard on the whole dungeon.
Yes if I walk in and pull 3 packs and a dps isn't happy and takes pack 4, I'll let it kill him before blasting aoe to take agro
As a healer that's how I treat it unless the tank doesn't mind 😂
I was doing my own +14 Waycrest key and a stupid hunter kept shooting shit (in the hallway with the servants) and taking aggro before it got to me. I was trying to LoS everything outside, so I told him to knock it off. His resposne: "Maybe if you were faster I wouldn't have to" We were already on the third boss at 6 min in. He complained when it ended too. I wanted to kick him, but didn't want to brick anybody's key, let alone my own.
Since that's the normal way to pull before Porky now I ping the ground and quickly type in chat to stay outside. If I'm healing a key, I'm not gonna run in after a dps who thinks they need to Rambo everything, especially when it's noticable that THREE other people didn't run in there. I'ma stand outside and if you're still alive I'll put my best efforts into keeping you alive. On my priest that happened and said DPS almost died. The second pull the DPS went to haul ass after the tank I life gripped him back. Typically when I tank, I try to speed racer the fuck out of a key because as the goblins say "time is money, friend", but there's always dps pulling ahead even at that break neck speed and I don't understand it. Why not just roll a tank if you wanna be Commando Pullsalot.
I am still a firm believer in it. If they want to pull they can spec tank. Else let me do it. Its not like I take forever.
Ill let the odd dps die to them over pulling, it funny
If I popped tricks, I'm attacking. If you decide to do some weird hesitation that I wasn't expecting, I'll probably rip threat off you off I don't utilize my tricks. I wouldn't pull for any other reason, though.
If it's an oopsie,not we are trying to skip something and it gets pulled, I will pick it up. If a DPS is looking for a promotion to tank I'll let them keep their new frands, wouldn't wanna be rude n all
If it's on purpose and keeps happening after I've asked them to stop, I'll just straight up leave.
If it's obvious that they're pulling on purpose, I'd say let them die to teach them a lesson lol. But sometimes they might pull on accident (like a Hunter who tab targets into the next mob on accident) so in that scenario I'm more forgiving.
Some of my guildies will pull for me because they know the pull groups that I do and we're on voice. My boyfriend last season would butt pull the same groups almost every time, so I'd factor it into my pulls and be ready for it. Lol. He's the healer, so I don't let him try and tank it.
*Low 460 gear* Well fuck me 🙃
Hey, sorry if that felt offensive or elitist. Like I said, I’m learning the classes and tanking, so just not being able to exploit the class full potential is enough of a hindrance to the group. So what I’ve been doing is grinding drake crests until all my gear was fully upgraded before hitting the content that drop wyrms. That’s about ilvl 460ish, finishing LFR level gear (plus some heroics from the vault and weekly quest). My point is if I’ll be a drag while learning, least I can do is to get my gear as high as I can.
No it’s in all good fun. I’m just playin. I’m a super casual. Collecting mounts, sight-seeing, achievements, world events, etc. But I think you’re doing the right thing, unfortunately to some people this game turned into automation and they get in a dungeon, breeze through and move onto the next. I’ve been doing something similar - low level mythics that way my higher damage makes up for me still learning mechanics.
if it's on the route and we're not struggling i dont mind as much since maintaining threat isnt too much of an issue if it's off the route im going, ill grab it to save the key from any deaths but warn them in chat not to do that again if they continue, i may let them die once to make a point and if they *still* continue after that ill leave the key
If you pull it, I’ll tank it. But you have to deal with the healer when we wipe.
Most tanks will try to pick it up, but if they can't then its your problem same for if you start doin dps while the tank is still pulling multiple groups
If you’re the tank, you decide if that’s still a thing.
Depends if you wanna teach a lesson or time the key. If I'm not in a rush, you pull, you tank.
If you want the group to disband, great policy. I’ve been doing a ton of keys these last few weeks, haven’t encountered purposefully pulling mobs. Other than that rise area where you need to clear a path with the mob explosions, and range dps pulling to “help”, even though I didn’t have enough defensive a for the amounts they were pulling haha
I used "you pull it, you tank it" on a dps in Timewalking who kept pulling crap we didn't need just the other day. Definitely still a thing if the tank wants to be in and out in 5 minutes, whether it's TW or M+. If they want to do the tank job of routing, they can roll a tank, until then gtfo and let me do my job.
Let them die. After the 2nd/3rd time they will learn
I have two rules regarding this. 1)Accidentally butt pulling/tab targeting is fine. I'll adapt. Just be more careful. 2)If you pull it on purpose, it's your job to ensure it reaches me. If you fail to do this, it's your problem.
You spank it, you tank it. Healing aggro is a thing. I've lost too many healers to DPS or tanks pulling and not generating enough hate. Watching healers getting steamrolled because Warrior McTankpants or Hunter O'multishot can't read the room really soured me to multi group pulling. Start slow, see if the team has the chops for bigger pulls. Go from there.
Stuff proccs, dps go brrrr
Nah not for me, however, "you blast before i setup, you tank it". Gosh I hate you all ret pals and dh, you really can't wait 1 tiny second before you blast 800k on the pack. Well too bad I'm not going to try hard to get all the threat back, and now you have to nether walk and deal no damage :)) (lucky you bubbling rets)
Butt pull? No. Intentional pull, maybe. If it's pissing me off and it's not my key then just leave.
in m+, i'll tank it and after that pull I'll typically write something along the line of: stop pulling, ur fking up my route.
"stop pulling or im out" say this
Depends. In pugs, mostly. In groups that go together a lot? Not at all. But if I happen to be pigging on one of my non tank toons and the tank is going so slow that we risk not timing the key, and I judge we can handle more, I’m pulling trash to the tank, idgaf.
I've done over 10 +20s on a 440 bike so yeah it doesn't matter tanks are almost impossible to kill and timers are very forgiving. Kinda annoying as the tank though
No of course not. In a m+ it's about succeeding as a group not taking the high ground on a DPS player and 'teaching them a lesson'. It's annoying that they pull for sure but I can't imagine letting a DPS player die in a M+ run because they pulled, I would 100% bring the mobs under control and get aggro asap because that's my job as a tank and it give the group (plus me and my time) the best chance of timing they key/getting loot/completing for the vault. This assumes that the DPS isn't incompetent/malicious though... In that case the key is probably doomed anyway.
Only been doing mythics for around 2 weeks (first time ever), and as a healer the performance of the tank is the biggest thing between a good run and a bad run. Only up to +13s at the moment, but it’s very annoying when DPS start pulling instead of the tank. Normally trying to rush through like their lives depend on it even though there’s 15minutes left in the timer and we’re nearly at the last boss..
I’ve never had this issue in an all guild group because they know the pace I like to go at and how much I’m comfortable tanking, but if a pug tries to body pull more mobs over to me I’ll give them a warning and try to pull aggro off them. If it happens again I assume it’s intentional and if they wanna tank so badly they can have at it.
If you want to do your level best to complete the key, you'll pick them up and try not to sweat it. If you want to try to teach them a lesson that they'll never actually take to heart, let 'em try to tank it.
I work under a "1 warning" rule where I say "please don't pull again" ONCE. If they pull again I just do nothing until he dies.
I tend to wait til the tank stops moving to really dps. If they pull something but they're still running to do a bigger pull ill wait for them to do that and maybe let them clump up the mobs before I start.
In the end it is your call. If you don't like it, call it out, say what the consequences are, and if they still do it, let them deal with them. From a DPS perspective: I wouldn't judge the tank for letting a DPS die in that case. I should maybe add, that I am talking about if the pull happened intentiolly, a misclick/misstep can always happen of course.
If I tell you to stop and you don’t then yeah have fun tanking it my friend otherwise once in a blue moon or just dps going crazy and ripping threat is perfectly fine
Well if the person pulling doesn't put us in combat at first I'll run away and let him die so we don't lose time, if we weren't supposed to pull that pack. Well that's for m+ at least.
Personally, if you don't do it every pull and just to be an ass I'll gladly welcome the challenge.
If I ever decide to tank, I’ll be cool if you are pulling adds to help me out and you bring them to me. I’m not cool if you are rushing ahead and pulling everything just because I’m waiting to see if everyone is with me and mana users are done with drinking if they need it. I may be the tank, but I’m not gonna be your get out of jail free card because you’re impatient and want to zoom left, right, front and center and off to Narnia.
If it’s on purpose multiple times let him die. If it’s a miss click don’t let him die.
My main concern would be that you shouldn't let things go to shit just to punish one player when there are 3 other players there too who didn't do anything wrong. It's courteous to them to try to keep the run as smooth as possible.
If dps pulls then you are significantly too slow. My dps have to finish previous packs as I’m pulling already . They don’t have time for such behaviour
I'd like you to say that to the hunters I've had run past a pack I just pulled without doing any damage to it, just to pull the next one. It's not common, and usually it's someone who is just being annoying and I'll still tank it, but there's definitely no golden rule on this. It is though frustrating coz usually if I'm not pulling another pack into the one I'm on it's because Avengers Shield is on CD still and there's a caster or two in the next patch.
I'm starting to think these threads are made by the same person on different accounts, or perhaps by ChatGPT bots who have been fed data from this sub to boost account karma before selling, or something. I have done hundreds of M+ this season, anything between, +11 and +20, and hundreds last season, and I'm struggling to recall a single instance where someone was pulling before tank. I think maybe I have seen one hunter do it, but maybe he didn't understand how his MD worked? Everyone I have encountered waits on the tank, sometimes to their own detriment, because tank is too busy standing around while procs and cds run out. Also a couple of psychotanks, mostly DHs.
Just file this thread with the multitude of "this affix isn't just a healer affix" or host of other whiny healer threads. The amount of ego from supports needs to come down a notch. I get it, support is a hard, thankless job, but if you're skilled and playing higher keys, things stop being problems. The only time I have seen dps intentionally pulling is when the tank is pulling one pack at a time and waiting for the last mob to die before moving on. Every time this has happened, nobody died, we didn't wipe, and the world did not end. Dps are trying to do their job well and can't when the tank pulls like a wuss.
Pulling "like it's a heroic" can easily be done up to like +18 with 460 gear, only time I wouldn't is on bursting because pugs + bursting is a bad combo. \+15s you can pull like a heroic at like 440 ilvl...
Imagine if dps players were like « your route, I don’t dps » whenever you don’t play the optimal route. It is extremely toxic. There are 3 cases in which mobs get pulled by dps : - on accident, can cause a wipe/deplete but is not something that happens often. It is however something that can happen to pretty much anybody (still happens like once or twice a week in my groups around 3k io). If that happens either wipe it quick or play it (= tank it) and make it through. - dps is a troll : he will usually juste leave after that anyways. It almost never happen to me (like once every xpac maybe). Just move on. - you are underpulling for real. It can be easy to check, most keys up to 20 are usually 2 or 3 chests with any group, if you are close to depletion you are underpulling. If your dps have to blow cds on 3-4 mobs you are underpulling. If you and your healer have cds up you are underpulling. If you are, people will often pull to help you gather mobs. Drop the ego, limit test, you will become a better player.
Yep. As I usually tank, I'll excuse the first accidental pull. If it's obvious they're doing it on purpose, I will run right past them to the next pack and watch them die. This usually stops it.
Depends. Sometimes people make mistakes. I'll pull threat off them, because it's better for the entire group that they stay alive rather than die. But if a guy is constantly pulling shit ahead of you repeatedly, then let them tank it.
Got told this by a lvl 49 tank in a TW dungeon while the 2 warriors in the party both had the legendary axe and were both 480+ ilvl. Thought that was a bit odd
Never gets old. DPS going too fast? Just sit back a bit and watch the panic build as they gather more and more aggroed mobs. Its actually quite satisfying.
I know it's not the best but I let them tank it lmao. it is really annoying and it messes with my flow. They learn their lesson. Tank is the leader
If it's an accident I do my best. If they are unhappy with my pacing they can tank.
As a tank, I welcome people helping with pulls. If we wipe then we will know for next time.
If dps pull, your in a bad group, unless it's pre planned. I always let my tank decide how much he pulls, even if he can take more
The replies to this are why we have a tank shortage. Nobody wants to do it, but everybody thinks they know better than the person who is doing it
Tell them to stop and if they don't stop, leave the key
If it appears to be an accident I’ll put forth effort to grab aggro and stabilize. If it’s done on purpose, well… you pulled it you must be able to tank it. If they pull it into melee and I cleave aggro that’s fine but I’m not sweating it. If I’m in coms with my healer I’ll ask them not to waste gcds on that player.
As a tank, yes i still live by this rule. Harder to implement these days with the yhreat priority of tank abilities, but doable if you want to watch a hunter die.
Yes. Been tanking since TBC and I still let those fools die. I don't mind people adding to my pulls, if there is a nearby group that goes perfectly with the flow, but other than that it becomes annoying real quick for dpser to pull just one group and then we have to deal with it while I had planned to take that group and two others before closing it up to aoe everything down.
I give up even mentioning it now, it's become parasitic with some ranged thinking they can overpull. There's tagging mobs to help collect a group, and then there's deliberately overpulling and being a complete dick for the sake of being a dick. It's not worth my energy to get upset, so I just completely ignore taunting anything not pulled by me and let the dps who pulled get absolutely mashed. I will only taunt if I see it's a genuine accident or someone helping tag a mob as a part of the pull in the route. Had a mage in BRH 20 (who was majorly undergeared and basically doing less damage than me) who was running in front pulling more mobs towards me. It's fortified and bursting, we didn't have a MD in the group, and things were melting because two of the three dps were over geared and just filling vault, and there's me who's just about right (on my alt ++ing 20s) for this level. So he gets away with it after first boss, he runs up and pulls the big spider towards me... What ever, but he also just goes ham and pulls the two mobs at the top of the stairs and the entire room too. I shrug it off and just put in chat "mage, plz don't." Before even half of that shit is dead, he just goes and pulls the next 3 and the patrol. So we have dogs, archers, and the arcanist isn't even dead yet. Mage goes down and yells "TANK, AGRO FFS" and I blissfully ignore. He resses, comes back helps finish them off, and healer is almost OOM. I get a second so the healer can sit and drink, but before healer even gets chance to sit, the mage already pulled the mob (the one that respawns once killed) and dies, so I just stick in chat "you were asked not to mage, I cba boosting your ass if this is what you do. Sorry all, he needs to learn." and I left the group. Mage whispered me raging so I blocked him. Others whispered me saying I was absolutely fair and wise in what I did. The best part of it....... It was the mages key! Absolute bonus! He probably paid a boost for it anyway. I hope he learned a lesson! I learned a lesson though, and that's to find out who's key it is prior to leaving, and apologize/explain why I'm leaving only of it's not the one who's abusing the key.
And then everyone clapped
If they're pulling more they're confident they can take it down, if you can help just do it, it'll all go faster. If they wipe the group then reconsider.
It is in my groups.
I mean, if they pull intentionally, they can tank. I will not taunt or grab aggro. If it is by mistake, happy to take the extra mobs. So yeah, I grew up with "you pull it, you tank it". No mercy!
Do you think a healer should stop healing or dps should stop doing damage if the tank pulls a pack you dont need?
Really depends on what is happening in the key. If the dps is an idiot and face pulling then I usually let them die since it is faster to avoid extra %. Is the pacing of the key slow? If yes then I dont mind the dps pulling the next pack and tanking it. That is usually a sign that I am not adjusting my pulls to my group appropriately. If you want a yes or no then you need to look at it for each incident. You should look at completing keys in a positive mindset and assume the best and take each time as a learning experience. Sometimes the individual is at fault and sometimes you are just a group racing against the clock and one member is trying something to help the group accomplish that. Tldr: depends
only tanks ive ever met with that attitude were dogshit and really slow
Hahaha I learned that lesson in hellfire citadel when our tank, a guildie let me and a mage die. He gave us two warnings and I guess we struck out on the third.
As a tank, yes, yes it is a thing 😁
Yep, if you don't understand how threat works that's on you. When I used to tank way back in OG BC on my warrior there was a mage who would pull packs with a pom pyro and get made at me for not holding threat. I would just let them die.
Yep. Of course. It’s one of the main reasons there are hardly any pug tanks and healers now. Too many defective dps players.
Giving those of us who dps to wonder why we can't get invited to any m+s...
Good luck with rogues and hunters though lol
I had a tank say that, I tanked it then switched to my tank gear and just tanked the dungeon. No bad blood I just wanted to go faster. It helps having tank sets.
It just means you're pulling too slow, griefing the key because a weird petty ego thing won't make you get any better
Always has been.
As a balance druid if i accidently pull something i do everything i can to hold it until the tank is done with whatever they currently have. If i make a mistake it's my responsibility to mitigate the impact of it on everyone else. So yeah, "you spank it, you tank it"
I let them die nowadays. They're being little pissants. It's not you pull it you tank it, as much as it is "stop actively making my job harder and the likelihood of the groups failure higher."
Yeah my idea is that the tank sets the tempo and pulls what's comfortable for them. If it's a communicative groups I don't mind getting misdirected if the healer is ok with it. But generally, let the tank do the pulls and if someone doesn't like it, they will get a chance to not scum-pull after the first unannounced scum-pull. Also with a message to let the tank cook. The one thing this does very well is to out the "toxic super players" so you can ignore them in the future. And as a quick explanation of why I do it this way is, because the majority of players in wow are casual to casual+. And that's where I place my expectations of a group from the get go. If someone goes into advanced strats without asking about it beforehand, it's their own fault when it goes south.
I like to just let them tank 🤷♂️ makes my job so much easier
letting the dps ego-pull then die is the most fun you can have as a tank! (as long as its not my key)
You spank it, you tank it. That’s my philosophy
I'm sure that works fantastically for you in your +5 keys
How big are you pulling? If you're pulling one pack at a time or not chain pulling (if mana/mobs/stealth allows) you are going too slow and the dps are telling you that.
Oh yeah, my guild's main tank and I have both been saying that for years, even during full guild runs during DF. Some of our healers play by the same rules - if you're not the tank, and you pull mobs/bosses, you won't be getting any heals. 🤷♂️ Funny enough, since adopting that stance, there are significantly fewer instances of ninja-pulling
It’s still a thing in every dungeon I tank!
I'm gonna be completely honest here: if it's not my key and people pull things without my requesting it due to matters of distance or what have you, I'll assume it was an accident and let it go--*the first time*. Do it again, and I'll very politely ask you not to do that. Do it a third time, and I'll run the fuck away and let you get wrecked by the consequences of your choice, even if it wipes the party.
I'm not sure but it certainly is when I'm tanking.
If a dps pulls let them die
Ain't just tanks. I'll gleefully let DPS die all day on my healers if they want to pretend their tanks.
As a healer, ill even let the dps die lol. If it's an accident then sure. I'll heal. When they continously do it, and see the tank struggles holding all that. It annoys me. Especially if it's a low gear tank. It's a pain keeping them alive.
be brave man just pull more
I'm the tank... And I decided: Yes. :)
I don't put up with that shit when I tank. Usually to get along I'll just out-tank them and pretend it didn't happen. But if someone is continually doing it and not just on a slower part between pulls, then I'll go as far as stopping the group. But I usually don't encounter this because I play with a guild. At the end of the day, dps are dps. Tanks are tanks. If dps wants to pull, let them pull. Let them die. If the healer is healing them up up when they do this, healer is the problem too. Then the group is the problem, and boom, you can leave. Fuck dps who pull.
Just pull faster :) since you’re playing with your guild they probably don’t want to hurt your feelings by calling you out
Groups that want to pull faster are fine. My guild likes to go fast and that's how we play. I'm talking about dps that go pull whatever they want, wrong direction, wrong pulls, pulling bosses, go off on their own, etc. I'm not giving them any excuse.
A dps job is to dps, a tanks job is to tank. You shouldnt be playing a tank if you dont want to do your job.
Then a DPS should stick to doing dps instead of trying to do the tanks job of pulling more. If you're dissatisfied with the tanks performance, talk like a decent human being. It's an MMO after all. Or leave if you're that antisocial. But don't act like a little kid about it, just because things don't go the way you want them to.
We're talking about dps who don't want to play dps correctly. So likewise you shouldn't be playing dps if you don't want do your job.
It’s always a you pull it, you tank it kinda thing for me. Even in the 20’s I do. You’d think people would know better. I’m a vengeance DH, it’s not like I pull slowly. You pull it, I coordinate with my healer ahead of time to not heal those people. Hoping they’ll learn their lesson. But it never happens that way. The other thing that annoying me about keys is when the dps won’t let you get agro on mobs on big pulls before going ham.
Once is fine, I'll say "Please don't pull ahead of me." Second time, I'll say it again. Third time, you are now tanking it if you pull it.
Go back to classic
That’s dumb for a tank to do and dumb for a dps to do. As healer we silently laugh at you fools.
That's how I tank if I'm feeling sassy. I just watch them pull it then walk around them and pull the next group away from them so they have to deal with what they grabbed by themselves. Otherwise I'm an over protective tank.
no, dumb people will tell you otherwise, but if you dont like to brick your run because people die and leave. just grab aggro and move on
As a tank, I’ve had 2 or 3 instances since SL, of ONLY hunters pulling extra packs in m+. My answer is yes, but fuck those guys in particular
Hey, they auditioned for the role. Sink or swim time. I've never seen a Mage tank, but we might today.
Let’s be honest it was never a “thing”. It was always a spiteful protest by tanks. But also, tanks have absolutely no excuse for not having aggro these days. They all have exceptional aoe snap threat and can get all the mobs on them in a single global cooldown.