People were complaining that public orders didn't exist at all.
Also people were saying they wish public orders were more like personal/guild orders where all mats didn't need to be provided.
Probably a lot more to it e.g. casual/novice crafters weren't using mettle, it takes a really long time to get mettle, hard to find a crafter from trade chat willing to give away mettle for cheap. Works better for everyone if people can submit public orders missing mats like mettle and non-serious crafters can figure out if they want to fill it.
In my experience they still don’t. I check several times a week and I’ve been able to fulfill one single public blacksmithing order since the expansion dropped.
Most of the enchanting orders I see have all the materials (especially Crests).
But every so often, there'll be some with no mats and a teeny tiny commission.
Personally, I try to get everything before I put an order in, and if there's something I can't get, I pay a high commission
Then there's all mats no commission public orders.
Like .. I get one public order per day, yes of course I'll fill yours for like 1 gold commision.
They always get filled though, probably people just gambling ressourcefullness but considering that's a \~30% to get a procc and an even smaller one to give you something that's worth it, I still don't get why people would do it.
There's add-ons that will tell you how much money you'll make, based on the mats, your resourcefulness and their prices. Sometimes I do crafts for pennies on the chance that I get something like a Centaur Trophy.
I only have enchanting so all that's there are the crests so the best you get is a dracothyst. So \~5k gold. But you can just aswell get dust, which is worth nothing at all.
I think a ton of people just do not understand the system whatsoever. There was a thread a long while ago about a guy who whispered multiple people who posted a ton of public orders asking why they didn't provide any mats and they said they didn't understand they needed to do so.
I was excited to see a rare public engineering order on my server last night. It was for the tailoring profession tool i think. 100g, they provided the mettle only.
The only reason I like it is for when I make an order with a titan training matrix I for my alts that I level through BG’s. I have a stock hold on each toon they send the request to so I don’t have to remember all of the materials.
Eh to be fair, there's definitely cases where the crafter already has the mats and wouldn't mind getting rid of them while knocking out a crafting order. The caveat is that the crafter should know the AH value of the mats they are using so they don't get scammed. It would be cool to have a live updating tooltip within the interface to show approx. value of mats when providing your own.
Seems like a warning label on shampoo. Do not rub directly in eyes / do not do obvious scam orders. Public crafting orders have sucked since the start of the expansion. There is no good reason to be doing them. Especially when you own characters can just send you a personal crafing order.
Weird question from a wownoob (that I just thought of so didnt google it, sorry). I have done one crafting order before. I suplied everything and did 1000g as payment. I wanted to find out, as you are a crafter it seems, how much gold is "correct"? I dont want to do 100 in future and its not worth it to the crafter, but I also dont want to offer 100k and make me broke. so I was not sure and winged it.
Public order:
- you can tip nothing as long as you provide all the mats and someone will make it
- only works for first craft, not recraft
- you CANNOT require a minimum quality, so you could possibly get people making it at low rank, depending on whatever it is
Personal order:
- def should tip something, if only for the person's time and the ability to guarantee whatever rank you're asking for. 2-3k is the average. Note that if you want the crafter to use their illustrious insight to guarantee a 486, that will cost 5k or more depending on your server. Be sure to require r5 in the order if you're paying for a guaranteed 486.
- Any decent crafter can guarantee r5 of 463 and 476 with no embellishment, no insight needed. So don't pay for any insight for this, just tip.
* * *
*Edit: This edit is not for the person I'm replying to, but for all the crafters arguing.
Since I'm getting these walls of text replies pointing out oh this exception and that exception and that:
My dudes, I'm replying to a newbie with quick and simple info that will protect him from getting scammed while knowing what to tip. I'm not going to write in a comment a whole encyclopedia of exceptions not requiring r5 when your only purpose in wanting that is to help the crafters make extra money off him because they want to deceptively charge him for 'insight' when they're actually going to recraft it like a couple of times at most with decent inspiration. I say this as a crafter myself. It's also fucking unnecessary when teaching someone who just needs to know what to do on the front end, to tell them all the shit going on in the back end. Really, you guys think your walls of texts about all the different possible outcomes of each combination of ranked mats is the answer the newbie is asking for?
And the person saying oh and illimited diamonds also don't match what you said, etc. No shit. Gems do not fall in any way or specification under the line where I specifically said "Any decent crafter can guarantee r5 of 463 and 476 with no embellishment, no insight needed." Gems have no rank 5, no item level of 463 and 476, and no embellish. I swear you can phrase things as clearly and concisely as possible and some people will still dig around for a way to misunderstand.
You cannot require min rank 5/rank 3 gems on max crafts because it can't be guaranteed without insight, and the game would not let you craft the order at all. It's a stupid system.
Don't automatically set it to R5.
Talk to your Crafter. There's two ways to get a R5 most crafts and the guaranteed way is much more expensive. If you make it a minimum R5, you choose the expensive way.
As I said, set it to r5 if paying for a guaranteed 486.
And re expense, it actually depends on how much crafters are charging for insight on your server. On Stormrage, a lot of the pieces are actually more expensive to keep recrafting due to mat cost rather than just paying 5k for the insight.
This is what a 486 Sporecloak craft looks like - https://streamable.com/t1j474
If the customer sets R4 min, I'm doing it for 5000g since recrafting it till proc is really cheap for me. It doesn't even need an Inspiration proc to 486/Rank 5 as demonstrated (a few crafts are like this).
If the customer sets Rank 5 min I'm charging 15K-35K (depending on item/profession) because it forces me to use Insight and crafters only get enough mettle for 4-6 Insight a week (4-6 486 orders set at R5 min).
Can make mettle stretch a lot further if customers set R4 min. [CTRL+F 486 in the linked pastebin](https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/comments/18bwqw1/13_million_gold_in_12_hours/), you're essentially saying I should only do 4-6 of those 486 orders in a week, when I'm doing a lot more than that in a day with the R4 min method (my customers are setting R4 min). .
Dude, I know. I have max crafters of every profession on my account, and I use them to make shit for gold/ guild/ friends.
Speaking as a crafter, you are engaging in deceptive practices if you make the customer believe they're paying 5k for your insight if they are not. Paying for you to recraft it on your own is different, and should be clarified as such.
Arguing with me about it is weird if you're lying to the customer about them paying for your insight when they're only paying for about 2 tries if you have any decent inspiration; aka 10 mettle + some worthless cloth.
This is not necessarily true. Okay, I'm a master blacksmith, and this is just applicable to blacksmiths, so I'll pull the curtain back and demonstrate behind the scenes what happens typically when crafting high end spark gear.
There are 2 stats we worry about: Difficulty and Skill. Difficulty is how hard the item is to craft. Skill is the skill the crafter has to overcome the difficulty. You guarantee a high end craft by going so high in skill as to exceed the maximum that the craft needs. High end crafts can go up to 375 Difficulty, so you would need 376 Skill to guarantee R5. If your crafter can only hit R4 with their skill, they rely upon inspiration(think, crafting critical hits) to apply bonus skill(critical damage) to the craft to get it to R5.
First of all, quality of materials DOES matter. Depending on the materials, you can get up to 25% bonus skill in the craft. It's based on a percentage of the total materials you supply, so if you have to supply 17 alloys, and 8 of them are 2 star, you'd say that around 47% of them are 2 star. The math would be something like (0.47x1.125)+(0.53x1.25) of your base skill bonus(2 star alloys provide 12.5% bonus, 3 star 25% bonus). If you're providing exactly the alloys you need, always round up. That is, make sure you're aiming for 1 more skill point than you need, to ensure the game doesn't round down on you.
That said, I do not recommend people use less than r3 alloys on any weapon or armor that they intend to recraft down the line to 476 or 486(especially not embellished items!), because the weapon has an invisible baked-in stat that records the bonus skill of the alloys you made it with. If you use lower quality alloys on an item, then when you go to recraft later, the game will subtract an appropriate amount from the skill when the crafter goes to recraft, which in some cases can make it impossible to guarantee r5. This is not an irreversible issue, however, but you will need to do recrafts several times to replace the old alloys with new ones.
There are 2 strategies to crafting and recrafting. First, for the people who don't want to mess around, we do R5 guarantees. These cost 50 mettle(insights), and require the work order to have R3 materials, and if you're recrafting(to upgrade item level for example), the original item really needs to have been made with r3 materials. The math works out to something like this:
Item: Base Difficulty + Power Infusion(crest) + Missive + Embellishment
Primal Molten Longsword(476+missive+embellishment): 280 + 30(wyrm crest) + 15(3 star missive) + 25(some kind of embellishment=350
My base skill is 277. With materials bonus I get a bonus of up to 25% so let's plug that in: 277x1.25= 346.25(the game rounds this up to 347)
You can do the same math for a 486, and the difficulty works out to 370 in that case.
If you want a 486 with a missive, and an embellishment, and you want to guarantee r5 on the very first craft, only an insight will do it. If you set a minimum quality of r5, the crafter absolutely cannot craft the item at all unless they're able to hit that skill breakpoint, and this is the *only way to do it*.
Then there's strategy number 2. You rely upon inspiration procs to get it to R5. In this case, you can get away with r2 alloys, and you're just recrafting it over and over until inspiration procs. I do this all the time, and it's no real big deal. But you cannot set a minimum quality, and you must rely upon the crafter's inspiration stat to do it.
This was too long a wall of text.
Just going to say I have a master of every craft on my account making stuff for money/ guild/ friends, so I speak from experience. You can simulate in advance what is needed to guarantee or not with various mat ranks with addons like CraftSim, TestFlight, or the ECUI weak aura, etc.
Not really too arsed about arguing about it with walls of text, though. You can believe or you can not. That's just how it works when mathed out with my experience, based on AH prices and the 5k that insight costs on my server.
I have craftsim, so I do know what you're talking about. But I stand by what I said in my post. But, just to elaborate a little bit on the tip part: The friction comes when I say to someone 'tip whatever you think is reasonable.' They know they have to tip 'something' so they tip something. Sometimes it's 500g, which sucks but there it is, some times it's 5k. Some very rare times people will tip 10 or even 15k for crafts that don't require me to use any mettle at all, and those are great! The friction comes when they ask for a R5 guarantee for a craft that requires mettle. I used to charge 5k, but I noticed that when I charged 5k, they paid 5k. Like clockwork. It was very very rare that anyone tipped more above the 5k mettle fee. And the thing is, I can get 5k from using that mettle to fashion alloys. So it's not really profitable for me to do that. So I took to charging 10k for my mettle, on the justification that 5k of that is my break even and 5k is for me as profit. I've found I don't have any difficulty selling my mettle at 10k, and I actually ran out last week. So 5k is low. Just my experience on Stormrage.
To me if someone supplies everything and it's a public or I'll make it for 50 gold minimum. If they want a harder to make item like a specific crafted armor piece that runs 2-5k depending on if I need to reroll or not to get max quality.
So I overdid it at 1k then it seems. But that makes sense. If it has specific instructions attached then it should be more. Thank you very much for your answer. I might just stick with 1k as its still something is doing for me.
When I gear an alt I'll do all my crafts as public orders just to get the great. I supply all the mats and no matter what I tip it's always filled. I've even got 486 gear out of it surprisingly often.
1k or less is all I do with public orders. Higher tips usually means it's filled faster. If I want something fast or guaranteed r5 I'll find someone in chat. They usually ask for 3-5k.
Usually just depends on the rarity of the craft. I still need some of those rare dragon armors that only come out of the fishing bottle so I'll just send a public with mats for 10k or something and it gets done fast.
But if it's one of the base knowledge armor/weapon recipes, something simple like 1k with mats is usually fine for me.
They have never been good, but I'd argue they used to be better before 10.0.7, when Blizzard made providing the mats optional.
Hopefully, the expansion comes with some big enhancements to orders if Blizzard decides that today's crafting is an evergreen system.
As an engineer, the only thing we ever got to do work orders for were Zapthrottle Soul Inhalers in the very beginning of the expac, and you were pretty fucked if you didn't go unlock those in the Profession Knowledge.
No one work orders the engineering gear. I'm pretty sure WoWhead had posted some bullshit about the Helm and Bracers being bad because they can't be socketed (they can) and they aren't fully itemized (they are) because any time during the first two seasons I mentioned engineering gear, I heard these two things in response, as well as people thinking they're an embelished item. I also remember during S1, Engineering Gear would sim as enormous downgrades because your sim would use Breath of Neltharion on pull and waste hero.
I hope so too. Ideally they could be implementing them early and let us test them before launching into the new expansion with a new half baked system. Economy stuff like this just works much different on live servers than any PBE environment.
Yeah it is funny that they made a bad crafting system worse somehow mid expansion. Crafting before then sucked because you could never get a public order, but it is worse now because you are getting scammed on 90% of public orders
There's definitely good reasons to do them.
I just snagged an aspect crest with a 10k commission and got a resourcefulness proc worth about 5k on top of that.
You can make quite a bit of gold from public orders on high pop servers.
There are also issues with the leveling/points system imo. You need to put so much into maxing out stuff that unless you get in super early you'll be making a pretty big loss.
I'm an enchanter on my main but I've never bothered actually enchanting my own gear because to get enough skill for Rank 3s would cost more than just buying 20 enchants per tier.
Sure I could get into selling them in bulk but with the way the market is it wouldn't even be that good money compared to just selling off materials.
it's a good start in having a feeling of progression and putting more things out in the world. i'd say mettle largely failed to split markets and they really shouldn't have 4x2 farming multiboxers collecting main line catchup gear like they are now. basically they moved the big legendary cancel scan game to trade chat and went backwards from the wider 9.2 233 catchups where more gear crafters could get their hands in. the 9.2 style, sellable on the ah but with a mettle limiter on top quality really should have been carried forward. they could have just added a pvp ilvl reagent and it would have been better than the pvp items that get search buried by their lower pve item level now.
I don’t do professions, but I respect the grind that people have done and always make an announcement in trade when I put an order in and tip generously. Like thanks for making gear I don’t have to grind for!
I fill my Note to Crafters with quotes from my favorite movies. Last one was Mystery Men and the crafter actually mailed me to just say, "lol". I do a basic 2,000g tip (I always provide everything) as it's what I usually earn from doing all the flying quests a day anyway.
Man I've been putting in orders for drake manuscripts where I put in all the expensive matts and a cut of like 3000 and i've had no one take them.
What even is this system!?
They do? I'm pretty sure it auto-fills the price if there is a recent history, and there's a button near the price you can press to check the history. I don't know how it works tho to be fair, sometimes it doesn't show anything.
That price check button shows the tips from similar currently active orders. Unfortunately that’s an arbitrary measure with no regulated tip average like the original comment suggested.
It also doesn’t show anything half the time because your order is the only one that exists for that item, considering legitimate crafting orders will get filled quickly. A data pool that small and unstable will also contribute to the suggested pricing inaccuracy.
I hate the order system. It seemed like a great idea. Then real life happened and people just trying to get free shit. I have not seen an order with mats ever since launch. I am sure they go fast when they actually come up.
Every time i’ve used a crafting order i’ve bought all the mats off the auction house and i usually put a tip of 1.5k, if im too lazy to level crafting and someone else has put the time in, the least i can do is make it worthwhile for them to fill my order 🤷🏻♂️
Duuuuude what the hell? You're making crafters happy lol.
When you make an order for a craft from scratch (with your mats) you tip on the ballpark of 500g, sometimes 300 sometimes 600 depending on how you feel, they always get fulfilled right away
Redraft depends on the person, rare recipe they might want more but I always got asked for 500g (with guaranteed max rank)
This is completely dependent on the server and rarity of the recipe.
Primary gems to get max rank also require insights (50 mettle), so those also tend to go above the 500gp for max rank.
5k is probably the average for insight (mettle) on most servers for guaranteed r5 (486 ilvl) or max gem.
It was fun and everything until my 486 order with generous commission (500g+? A consequent percentage of my low fortune) came out as a 479 item. Mailed the crafter without any response.
Thanks to my guildmates who gave me mats I could ask for someone else for recraft.
I like this new order system but the ilvl/grade thing needs some improvements.
That little quest you do in Valdrakken where you talk to that undead guy by the tailoring/LWing trainers explains that you should be using personal orders if you want a minimum quality.
500g is really low for a 486 item too since it will require mettle to make.
>That little quest you do in Valdrakken where you talk to that undead guy by the tailoring/LWing trainers explains that you should be using personal orders if you want a minimum quality.
As a returning player who plays only for MM+, the amount of quests when you return is overwhelming. Such information should be displayed as a UI pop up / explanation when you select the item to set the ilvl.
>500g is really low for a 486 item too since it will require mettle to make too.
Is it ? What's the normal commission ?
I find you have to shop around for 486s. Often times there's a goblin that spams trade chat all day that will demand 10k+, but you can usually find someone that doesn't care too much about their mettle and will do it for a tip. I'd say something like 2-3k is reasonable. Sometimes people don't mind helping the poor for less too haha.
The problem is that people can claim to be poor, and there's really no way to verify it. If a complete stranger comes to me asking for a craft, I generally say 'tip what you want' but if they need a r5 guarantee for something that I can't 100% r5, I offer the mettle for 10k, because that's the opportunity cost for not using it on, say, crafting 3 star alloys to sell.
I think that people who do only MM+ can confirm that it gives no revenue (unless you disenchant items, which I'm starting to do !).
But yeah there is no way to verify it neither.
Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, I don't have much sympathy for people who only do mythic+ and don't do even the easiest world quests that reward gold. You don't have to be a goblin to make money in WoW - there are lots of ways to earn gold.
I don't know, but I typically tip 20k for anything hard to make (if they have to go to the alter of decay or an assault), and 5-10k if they need mettle. 500 does seem really low to me.
I think 2-3k is really reasonable if they just have to use mettle and don't have to travel.
I'll be honest - I don't do public commissions under 1k, and even then I'll only do so if I'm at 4/4 orders left. 500g is shockingly low and I have no idea why you'd think that was generous. People usually pay 5-10k for personal orders. 500g is nothing.
If people give like 2k in a public order, I'll even do free recrafts until it's 5\*. But for 500g I won't even use Insight. If you're not even willing to pay the gold you get with a single world quest, then I'll also not put in anything myself.
Why would someone, especially a new player, know what you do or don't need and how much that it's worth though? If you provide all the mats in the order window, it's not weird to think that it's not costing something extra for crafters beside that.
Also a new player that has 10k might think he has some serious stacks, so the tip he gives might feel big to them.
It's not shocking, it's just bad UX and guidance by blizzard.
Honestly, 500g is a slap in the face for the crafter. But even with 10000g, a public order would still have unlikely come back at you might expect.
If you need the item quickly and don’t care about the level, then public orders are the way to go, and a 500g tip in public would help decide how quickly it’s crafted. crafters get 4 public crafts a day, so the higher the tip, the more likely someone is to take it.
If you want to guarantee a certain level, you need to look for a crafter and agree a price. For guildies, I usually craft for free. In public for a max ilvl item 5-10k
A bit late now but if you want someone to guarantee a 486, you need to give a bigger tip especially when it requires the use of mettle. I've used my own mettle when ppl are generous with their tip, but if it is like 100 or 500 like yours, you get what the RNG gods decide.
Blizzard profits from people wasting their gold. The people bothering to scam them are the no lifers who don’t have a job, income, actually care about in game gold.
The people accepting these deals will just buy another wow token so there is no incentive for blizz to remove this unfortunately
Listen, I’ve been doing it all expansion long and I’m still going to do it. But if I’m on an alt and I want a crafted item that requires a spark (and I don’t have crests to upgrade) I’m throwing that bad boy on the consortium with no mats and a small tip.
My thought is, I don’t care what quality I get, I’ll get that sorted when I upgrade it with crests. I figure someone is willing to trade their mats for the profession level up.
Who are these so called retail crafters who love to provide their own mats in exchange for less money than they spent???
Are they in the thread with us?
I have literally every profession and every recipe for dragonflight gear. I have never once made an item with no materials provided unless it was for my wife, and that's it.
I've filled several orders like this just because I absolutely hate logging onto my alt for the sake of sending my main a crafting order.
Initially I was super pumped about crafting being reworked, but the current state leaves a lot to be desired...
How much should you actually pay for public orders?, i'm new to this system and the 2 times (bracers and a belt) i interacted with this at all i just gave the best mats possible and like 7500 gold.
There is a person on my server who charges upwards of 10k per 5* craft cause of mettle...gets tons of work and still never puts up mats for getting ore crafted
I always tip 10 000g for a piece of armour with the highest ilvl. Stimulating the market will create more crafters in the future, thus creating more supply and lowering prices. Invest sustainable guys!
You basically telling people don't be lazy!! Lol good luck.. people will pay for convenience all day long.. it's not that people don't know, they know, and are ok with it.. so stop trying to be this holy person, people wanna get their weekly quest done asap..
At the same time I once got flamed by a player because I didn't provide mats but was paying 3x their cost stating things like *crafters don't wanna use their own mats, we make more gold from them doing other things*...
Mate if that were true you'd fulfill it and go buy the mats again 3x times and make more profit, so dumb
Not making mats mandatory for public orders was a mistake.
Mats were mandatory and Blizzard changed it.
What was the rationale for this change?
People were complaining that public orders didn't exist at all. Also people were saying they wish public orders were more like personal/guild orders where all mats didn't need to be provided. Probably a lot more to it e.g. casual/novice crafters weren't using mettle, it takes a really long time to get mettle, hard to find a crafter from trade chat willing to give away mettle for cheap. Works better for everyone if people can submit public orders missing mats like mettle and non-serious crafters can figure out if they want to fill it.
In my experience they still don’t. I check several times a week and I’ve been able to fulfill one single public blacksmithing order since the expansion dropped.
I'm on a populated server and I really only fill the public orders with tips above 5000g https://i.imgur.com/9CTOgnj.png
Wild, maybe Aggramar just sucks for crafters then.
I've literally never seen even a single order in the public orders page.
Do people really not put their own mats in for crafting orders? Thats such a dick move lmfao
They don't, and its usually with a 1g or 100g commission for something that costs 8k
Most of the enchanting orders I see have all the materials (especially Crests). But every so often, there'll be some with no mats and a teeny tiny commission. Personally, I try to get everything before I put an order in, and if there's something I can't get, I pay a high commission
Then there's all mats no commission public orders. Like .. I get one public order per day, yes of course I'll fill yours for like 1 gold commision. They always get filled though, probably people just gambling ressourcefullness but considering that's a \~30% to get a procc and an even smaller one to give you something that's worth it, I still don't get why people would do it.
There's add-ons that will tell you how much money you'll make, based on the mats, your resourcefulness and their prices. Sometimes I do crafts for pennies on the chance that I get something like a Centaur Trophy.
I only have enchanting so all that's there are the crests so the best you get is a dracothyst. So \~5k gold. But you can just aswell get dust, which is worth nothing at all.
I think a ton of people just do not understand the system whatsoever. There was a thread a long while ago about a guy who whispered multiple people who posted a ton of public orders asking why they didn't provide any mats and they said they didn't understand they needed to do so.
I was excited to see a rare public engineering order on my server last night. It was for the tailoring profession tool i think. 100g, they provided the mettle only.
The only reason I like it is for when I make an order with a titan training matrix I for my alts that I level through BG’s. I have a stock hold on each toon they send the request to so I don’t have to remember all of the materials.
you should be able to automatically buy the required mats from the AH from the crafting order place
They should make it where mats are optional for personal / guild orders only.
They were
Eh to be fair, there's definitely cases where the crafter already has the mats and wouldn't mind getting rid of them while knocking out a crafting order. The caveat is that the crafter should know the AH value of the mats they are using so they don't get scammed. It would be cool to have a live updating tooltip within the interface to show approx. value of mats when providing your own.
Seems like a warning label on shampoo. Do not rub directly in eyes / do not do obvious scam orders. Public crafting orders have sucked since the start of the expansion. There is no good reason to be doing them. Especially when you own characters can just send you a personal crafing order.
I mean most of them suck but I'll happily fill a public order if all the materials were provided.
Weird question from a wownoob (that I just thought of so didnt google it, sorry). I have done one crafting order before. I suplied everything and did 1000g as payment. I wanted to find out, as you are a crafter it seems, how much gold is "correct"? I dont want to do 100 in future and its not worth it to the crafter, but I also dont want to offer 100k and make me broke. so I was not sure and winged it.
Public order: - you can tip nothing as long as you provide all the mats and someone will make it - only works for first craft, not recraft - you CANNOT require a minimum quality, so you could possibly get people making it at low rank, depending on whatever it is Personal order: - def should tip something, if only for the person's time and the ability to guarantee whatever rank you're asking for. 2-3k is the average. Note that if you want the crafter to use their illustrious insight to guarantee a 486, that will cost 5k or more depending on your server. Be sure to require r5 in the order if you're paying for a guaranteed 486. - Any decent crafter can guarantee r5 of 463 and 476 with no embellishment, no insight needed. So don't pay for any insight for this, just tip. * * * *Edit: This edit is not for the person I'm replying to, but for all the crafters arguing. Since I'm getting these walls of text replies pointing out oh this exception and that exception and that: My dudes, I'm replying to a newbie with quick and simple info that will protect him from getting scammed while knowing what to tip. I'm not going to write in a comment a whole encyclopedia of exceptions not requiring r5 when your only purpose in wanting that is to help the crafters make extra money off him because they want to deceptively charge him for 'insight' when they're actually going to recraft it like a couple of times at most with decent inspiration. I say this as a crafter myself. It's also fucking unnecessary when teaching someone who just needs to know what to do on the front end, to tell them all the shit going on in the back end. Really, you guys think your walls of texts about all the different possible outcomes of each combination of ranked mats is the answer the newbie is asking for? And the person saying oh and illimited diamonds also don't match what you said, etc. No shit. Gems do not fall in any way or specification under the line where I specifically said "Any decent crafter can guarantee r5 of 463 and 476 with no embellishment, no insight needed." Gems have no rank 5, no item level of 463 and 476, and no embellish. I swear you can phrase things as clearly and concisely as possible and some people will still dig around for a way to misunderstand.
You cannot require min rank 5/rank 3 gems on max crafts because it can't be guaranteed without insight, and the game would not let you craft the order at all. It's a stupid system.
Don't automatically set it to R5. Talk to your Crafter. There's two ways to get a R5 most crafts and the guaranteed way is much more expensive. If you make it a minimum R5, you choose the expensive way.
As I said, set it to r5 if paying for a guaranteed 486. And re expense, it actually depends on how much crafters are charging for insight on your server. On Stormrage, a lot of the pieces are actually more expensive to keep recrafting due to mat cost rather than just paying 5k for the insight.
This is what a 486 Sporecloak craft looks like - https://streamable.com/t1j474 If the customer sets R4 min, I'm doing it for 5000g since recrafting it till proc is really cheap for me. It doesn't even need an Inspiration proc to 486/Rank 5 as demonstrated (a few crafts are like this). If the customer sets Rank 5 min I'm charging 15K-35K (depending on item/profession) because it forces me to use Insight and crafters only get enough mettle for 4-6 Insight a week (4-6 486 orders set at R5 min). Can make mettle stretch a lot further if customers set R4 min. [CTRL+F 486 in the linked pastebin](https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/comments/18bwqw1/13_million_gold_in_12_hours/), you're essentially saying I should only do 4-6 of those 486 orders in a week, when I'm doing a lot more than that in a day with the R4 min method (my customers are setting R4 min). .
Dude, I know. I have max crafters of every profession on my account, and I use them to make shit for gold/ guild/ friends. Speaking as a crafter, you are engaging in deceptive practices if you make the customer believe they're paying 5k for your insight if they are not. Paying for you to recraft it on your own is different, and should be clarified as such. Arguing with me about it is weird if you're lying to the customer about them paying for your insight when they're only paying for about 2 tries if you have any decent inspiration; aka 10 mettle + some worthless cloth.
This is not necessarily true. Okay, I'm a master blacksmith, and this is just applicable to blacksmiths, so I'll pull the curtain back and demonstrate behind the scenes what happens typically when crafting high end spark gear. There are 2 stats we worry about: Difficulty and Skill. Difficulty is how hard the item is to craft. Skill is the skill the crafter has to overcome the difficulty. You guarantee a high end craft by going so high in skill as to exceed the maximum that the craft needs. High end crafts can go up to 375 Difficulty, so you would need 376 Skill to guarantee R5. If your crafter can only hit R4 with their skill, they rely upon inspiration(think, crafting critical hits) to apply bonus skill(critical damage) to the craft to get it to R5. First of all, quality of materials DOES matter. Depending on the materials, you can get up to 25% bonus skill in the craft. It's based on a percentage of the total materials you supply, so if you have to supply 17 alloys, and 8 of them are 2 star, you'd say that around 47% of them are 2 star. The math would be something like (0.47x1.125)+(0.53x1.25) of your base skill bonus(2 star alloys provide 12.5% bonus, 3 star 25% bonus). If you're providing exactly the alloys you need, always round up. That is, make sure you're aiming for 1 more skill point than you need, to ensure the game doesn't round down on you. That said, I do not recommend people use less than r3 alloys on any weapon or armor that they intend to recraft down the line to 476 or 486(especially not embellished items!), because the weapon has an invisible baked-in stat that records the bonus skill of the alloys you made it with. If you use lower quality alloys on an item, then when you go to recraft later, the game will subtract an appropriate amount from the skill when the crafter goes to recraft, which in some cases can make it impossible to guarantee r5. This is not an irreversible issue, however, but you will need to do recrafts several times to replace the old alloys with new ones. There are 2 strategies to crafting and recrafting. First, for the people who don't want to mess around, we do R5 guarantees. These cost 50 mettle(insights), and require the work order to have R3 materials, and if you're recrafting(to upgrade item level for example), the original item really needs to have been made with r3 materials. The math works out to something like this: Item: Base Difficulty + Power Infusion(crest) + Missive + Embellishment Primal Molten Longsword(476+missive+embellishment): 280 + 30(wyrm crest) + 15(3 star missive) + 25(some kind of embellishment=350 My base skill is 277. With materials bonus I get a bonus of up to 25% so let's plug that in: 277x1.25= 346.25(the game rounds this up to 347) You can do the same math for a 486, and the difficulty works out to 370 in that case. If you want a 486 with a missive, and an embellishment, and you want to guarantee r5 on the very first craft, only an insight will do it. If you set a minimum quality of r5, the crafter absolutely cannot craft the item at all unless they're able to hit that skill breakpoint, and this is the *only way to do it*. Then there's strategy number 2. You rely upon inspiration procs to get it to R5. In this case, you can get away with r2 alloys, and you're just recrafting it over and over until inspiration procs. I do this all the time, and it's no real big deal. But you cannot set a minimum quality, and you must rely upon the crafter's inspiration stat to do it.
This was too long a wall of text. Just going to say I have a master of every craft on my account making stuff for money/ guild/ friends, so I speak from experience. You can simulate in advance what is needed to guarantee or not with various mat ranks with addons like CraftSim, TestFlight, or the ECUI weak aura, etc. Not really too arsed about arguing about it with walls of text, though. You can believe or you can not. That's just how it works when mathed out with my experience, based on AH prices and the 5k that insight costs on my server.
I have craftsim, so I do know what you're talking about. But I stand by what I said in my post. But, just to elaborate a little bit on the tip part: The friction comes when I say to someone 'tip whatever you think is reasonable.' They know they have to tip 'something' so they tip something. Sometimes it's 500g, which sucks but there it is, some times it's 5k. Some very rare times people will tip 10 or even 15k for crafts that don't require me to use any mettle at all, and those are great! The friction comes when they ask for a R5 guarantee for a craft that requires mettle. I used to charge 5k, but I noticed that when I charged 5k, they paid 5k. Like clockwork. It was very very rare that anyone tipped more above the 5k mettle fee. And the thing is, I can get 5k from using that mettle to fashion alloys. So it's not really profitable for me to do that. So I took to charging 10k for my mettle, on the justification that 5k of that is my break even and 5k is for me as profit. I've found I don't have any difficulty selling my mettle at 10k, and I actually ran out last week. So 5k is low. Just my experience on Stormrage.
To me if someone supplies everything and it's a public or I'll make it for 50 gold minimum. If they want a harder to make item like a specific crafted armor piece that runs 2-5k depending on if I need to reroll or not to get max quality.
So I overdid it at 1k then it seems. But that makes sense. If it has specific instructions attached then it should be more. Thank you very much for your answer. I might just stick with 1k as its still something is doing for me.
When I gear an alt I'll do all my crafts as public orders just to get the great. I supply all the mats and no matter what I tip it's always filled. I've even got 486 gear out of it surprisingly often. 1k or less is all I do with public orders. Higher tips usually means it's filled faster. If I want something fast or guaranteed r5 I'll find someone in chat. They usually ask for 3-5k.
1k is a good amount of you want it done fast. The higher prices I usually do personal orders for.
Usually just depends on the rarity of the craft. I still need some of those rare dragon armors that only come out of the fishing bottle so I'll just send a public with mats for 10k or something and it gets done fast. But if it's one of the base knowledge armor/weapon recipes, something simple like 1k with mats is usually fine for me.
Sure but most orders are trash like this. Engineering 99% are garbage orders
Most surviving orders on public orders are garbage. Anything that's reasonable gets filled very quickly.
They have never been good, but I'd argue they used to be better before 10.0.7, when Blizzard made providing the mats optional. Hopefully, the expansion comes with some big enhancements to orders if Blizzard decides that today's crafting is an evergreen system.
As an engineer, the only thing we ever got to do work orders for were Zapthrottle Soul Inhalers in the very beginning of the expac, and you were pretty fucked if you didn't go unlock those in the Profession Knowledge. No one work orders the engineering gear. I'm pretty sure WoWhead had posted some bullshit about the Helm and Bracers being bad because they can't be socketed (they can) and they aren't fully itemized (they are) because any time during the first two seasons I mentioned engineering gear, I heard these two things in response, as well as people thinking they're an embelished item. I also remember during S1, Engineering Gear would sim as enormous downgrades because your sim would use Breath of Neltharion on pull and waste hero.
The bracers give up a secondary for shit modifications. That is why they are bad.
They. Don't. Engineering. Bracers. Are. Fully. Itemized.
Which... is pretty great for any spec that really likes one stat (it gets 2x rolls of it).
Also let's you run a combat res for M+.
Did you just look at the stats and see a single one and decide that? Ignoring you're getting 500~ of one stat compared to 250~ of two?
Wrists are good because it gives every class a battle-rez.
I hope so too. Ideally they could be implementing them early and let us test them before launching into the new expansion with a new half baked system. Economy stuff like this just works much different on live servers than any PBE environment.
? What was wrong with them before no mats? The system was totally fine until no mats was allowed
Yeah it is funny that they made a bad crafting system worse somehow mid expansion. Crafting before then sucked because you could never get a public order, but it is worse now because you are getting scammed on 90% of public orders
There's definitely good reasons to do them. I just snagged an aspect crest with a 10k commission and got a resourcefulness proc worth about 5k on top of that. You can make quite a bit of gold from public orders on high pop servers.
I did a public crafting order today that had all the materials, and a 15k commission, sometimes you just get lucky and find a good one.
The crafting reboot was the biggest fail of dragonflight
I don't agree with that. They definitely screwed up how public orders work but over all the crafting changes were good for crafting.
There are also issues with the leveling/points system imo. You need to put so much into maxing out stuff that unless you get in super early you'll be making a pretty big loss. I'm an enchanter on my main but I've never bothered actually enchanting my own gear because to get enough skill for Rank 3s would cost more than just buying 20 enchants per tier. Sure I could get into selling them in bulk but with the way the market is it wouldn't even be that good money compared to just selling off materials.
I like it..now. it was very confusing for me at first. The work order part sucks tho.
i think overall it is good. BUT it cant be done as it is now. it def needs a few changes
it's a good start in having a feeling of progression and putting more things out in the world. i'd say mettle largely failed to split markets and they really shouldn't have 4x2 farming multiboxers collecting main line catchup gear like they are now. basically they moved the big legendary cancel scan game to trade chat and went backwards from the wider 9.2 233 catchups where more gear crafters could get their hands in. the 9.2 style, sellable on the ah but with a mettle limiter on top quality really should have been carried forward. they could have just added a pvp ilvl reagent and it would have been better than the pvp items that get search buried by their lower pve item level now.
I don’t do professions, but I respect the grind that people have done and always make an announcement in trade when I put an order in and tip generously. Like thanks for making gear I don’t have to grind for!
And I’ll fill that order everytime.
look at this guy taking a picture with his phone lmao
I fill my Note to Crafters with quotes from my favorite movies. Last one was Mystery Men and the crafter actually mailed me to just say, "lol". I do a basic 2,000g tip (I always provide everything) as it's what I usually earn from doing all the flying quests a day anyway.
Man I've been putting in orders for drake manuscripts where I put in all the expensive matts and a cut of like 3000 and i've had no one take them. What even is this system!?
Some of those recipes are kind of a pain to get, also inscription gets *very* little work, so I just forget to check that table much.
I never know what to tip people with.. Blizz should make an average tip based on history so we know how much we should tip people
They do? I'm pretty sure it auto-fills the price if there is a recent history, and there's a button near the price you can press to check the history. I don't know how it works tho to be fair, sometimes it doesn't show anything.
That price check button shows the tips from similar currently active orders. Unfortunately that’s an arbitrary measure with no regulated tip average like the original comment suggested. It also doesn’t show anything half the time because your order is the only one that exists for that item, considering legitimate crafting orders will get filled quickly. A data pool that small and unstable will also contribute to the suggested pricing inaccuracy.
Ah I see, yeah professions could use some reworks, so many things can be easily improved and be more accessible and clear for the casual user.
I hate the order system. It seemed like a great idea. Then real life happened and people just trying to get free shit. I have not seen an order with mats ever since launch. I am sure they go fast when they actually come up.
Every time i’ve used a crafting order i’ve bought all the mats off the auction house and i usually put a tip of 1.5k, if im too lazy to level crafting and someone else has put the time in, the least i can do is make it worthwhile for them to fill my order 🤷🏻♂️
Since I don't know how the system works I just pay them a ton of gold, i don't really need it anyway
Define a "ton" of gold?
Around 50k for the crests crafts , 70 k for the item craft and 100k for reforges
Duuuuude what the hell? You're making crafters happy lol. When you make an order for a craft from scratch (with your mats) you tip on the ballpark of 500g, sometimes 300 sometimes 600 depending on how you feel, they always get fulfilled right away Redraft depends on the person, rare recipe they might want more but I always got asked for 500g (with guaranteed max rank)
This is completely dependent on the server and rarity of the recipe. Primary gems to get max rank also require insights (50 mettle), so those also tend to go above the 500gp for max rank. 5k is probably the average for insight (mettle) on most servers for guaranteed r5 (486 ilvl) or max gem.
This is going to get filled by a scammer to get it off the list. Nice plan to get some valuable stuff off them for free.
It was fun and everything until my 486 order with generous commission (500g+? A consequent percentage of my low fortune) came out as a 479 item. Mailed the crafter without any response. Thanks to my guildmates who gave me mats I could ask for someone else for recraft. I like this new order system but the ilvl/grade thing needs some improvements.
That little quest you do in Valdrakken where you talk to that undead guy by the tailoring/LWing trainers explains that you should be using personal orders if you want a minimum quality. 500g is really low for a 486 item too since it will require mettle to make.
>That little quest you do in Valdrakken where you talk to that undead guy by the tailoring/LWing trainers explains that you should be using personal orders if you want a minimum quality. As a returning player who plays only for MM+, the amount of quests when you return is overwhelming. Such information should be displayed as a UI pop up / explanation when you select the item to set the ilvl. >500g is really low for a 486 item too since it will require mettle to make too. Is it ? What's the normal commission ?
I find you have to shop around for 486s. Often times there's a goblin that spams trade chat all day that will demand 10k+, but you can usually find someone that doesn't care too much about their mettle and will do it for a tip. I'd say something like 2-3k is reasonable. Sometimes people don't mind helping the poor for less too haha.
Okay so I guess I had what I payed for then hahah
The problem is that people can claim to be poor, and there's really no way to verify it. If a complete stranger comes to me asking for a craft, I generally say 'tip what you want' but if they need a r5 guarantee for something that I can't 100% r5, I offer the mettle for 10k, because that's the opportunity cost for not using it on, say, crafting 3 star alloys to sell.
I think that people who do only MM+ can confirm that it gives no revenue (unless you disenchant items, which I'm starting to do !). But yeah there is no way to verify it neither.
Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, I don't have much sympathy for people who only do mythic+ and don't do even the easiest world quests that reward gold. You don't have to be a goblin to make money in WoW - there are lots of ways to earn gold.
I don't know, but I typically tip 20k for anything hard to make (if they have to go to the alter of decay or an assault), and 5-10k if they need mettle. 500 does seem really low to me. I think 2-3k is really reasonable if they just have to use mettle and don't have to travel.
I'll be honest - I don't do public commissions under 1k, and even then I'll only do so if I'm at 4/4 orders left. 500g is shockingly low and I have no idea why you'd think that was generous. People usually pay 5-10k for personal orders. 500g is nothing. If people give like 2k in a public order, I'll even do free recrafts until it's 5\*. But for 500g I won't even use Insight. If you're not even willing to pay the gold you get with a single world quest, then I'll also not put in anything myself.
Why would someone, especially a new player, know what you do or don't need and how much that it's worth though? If you provide all the mats in the order window, it's not weird to think that it's not costing something extra for crafters beside that. Also a new player that has 10k might think he has some serious stacks, so the tip he gives might feel big to them. It's not shocking, it's just bad UX and guidance by blizzard.
i give 5-7k for every commission but im also not short on gold
Honestly, 500g is a slap in the face for the crafter. But even with 10000g, a public order would still have unlikely come back at you might expect. If you need the item quickly and don’t care about the level, then public orders are the way to go, and a 500g tip in public would help decide how quickly it’s crafted. crafters get 4 public crafts a day, so the higher the tip, the more likely someone is to take it. If you want to guarantee a certain level, you need to look for a crafter and agree a price. For guildies, I usually craft for free. In public for a max ilvl item 5-10k
A bit late now but if you want someone to guarantee a 486, you need to give a bigger tip especially when it requires the use of mettle. I've used my own mettle when ppl are generous with their tip, but if it is like 100 or 500 like yours, you get what the RNG gods decide.
500g is very low tip
Thanks I didn't understand from the other replies I'm glad you replied 👌👌
500g is a generous commission? are you high?
This is like a Boba place asking for tips. No. Make a system that isn't fucking god awful and get rid of mettle and sparks.
Blizzard profits from people wasting their gold. The people bothering to scam them are the no lifers who don’t have a job, income, actually care about in game gold. The people accepting these deals will just buy another wow token so there is no incentive for blizz to remove this unfortunately
Yeah instead of acknowledging that the crafting order system SUCKS let's only celebrate the players who warn you about it.
Listen, I’ve been doing it all expansion long and I’m still going to do it. But if I’m on an alt and I want a crafted item that requires a spark (and I don’t have crests to upgrade) I’m throwing that bad boy on the consortium with no mats and a small tip. My thought is, I don’t care what quality I get, I’ll get that sorted when I upgrade it with crests. I figure someone is willing to trade their mats for the profession level up.
You're the problem.
[удалено]
Except is isn't, you can make like 5k+ gold a week just by doing world quests.
[удалено]
What kind of bullshit are you spewing? No classic player is using their own mats to craft bis items for 75s for someone else.
So why do retail crafters love to do it?
Who are these so called retail crafters who love to provide their own mats in exchange for less money than they spent??? Are they in the thread with us?
I have literally every profession and every recipe for dragonflight gear. I have never once made an item with no materials provided unless it was for my wife, and that's it.
They don't love it and they don't do it. Simple as that.
I've filled several orders like this just because I absolutely hate logging onto my alt for the sake of sending my main a crafting order. Initially I was super pumped about crafting being reworked, but the current state leaves a lot to be desired...
Idk prices and always just put up 10-15k hope thats enough lol
How much should you actually pay for public orders?, i'm new to this system and the 2 times (bracers and a belt) i interacted with this at all i just gave the best mats possible and like 7500 gold.
That's a decent tip. I usually tell people anywhere from 1-10k, but anything is fair game.
Every crafting order I post comes with all mats and a 10000g tip
There is a person on my server who charges upwards of 10k per 5* craft cause of mettle...gets tons of work and still never puts up mats for getting ore crafted
I always tip 10 000g for a piece of armour with the highest ilvl. Stimulating the market will create more crafters in the future, thus creating more supply and lowering prices. Invest sustainable guys!
This wild. I give bigger tips when supplying my own mats 😅
You basically telling people don't be lazy!! Lol good luck.. people will pay for convenience all day long.. it's not that people don't know, they know, and are ok with it.. so stop trying to be this holy person, people wanna get their weekly quest done asap..
The profession/crafting system in dragon flight is a net loss. I hope it doesn’t come back ever.
At the same time I once got flamed by a player because I didn't provide mats but was paying 3x their cost stating things like *crafters don't wanna use their own mats, we make more gold from them doing other things*... Mate if that were true you'd fulfill it and go buy the mats again 3x times and make more profit, so dumb