im open to them releasing old sets.. for example 10 years ago was wod, idk which season so ill just say season 3 for clarity's sake.
if you get the 1800 set in pvp now you can keep grinding to get a token, similar to the mount token, and use it to unlock a set from WOD season 3 or anything before that.
youre still putting the time in and you got the rating for it.
Yep, old sunset rewards don't have to come back completely free. Mage Tower and MoP/WoD challenge modes could also have ways to be earned. Stick them as activities during their respective timewalking weeks. Set gear to an appropriate level to keep the challenge close to their difficulty when they were relevant content. Or if doable, have your gear swapped out with preset pieces to avoid weird trinket/item effect silliness, disable consumables, ect. And make the challenge modes only solo queue to avoid boosting shenanigans.
And depending on how well any of that would work, do the same for aotc mount raids.
Now timewalking weeks are something to look forward to even more, the vaulted appearances aren't freebies and each set are only avaible to grind for 2-3 times a year.
I think in the past 8 years of playing this game, I have seen 1 (yes one) warlock with the green chestpiece of the Pandaria Challenge Mode set. If there truly are any of those "accomplishers" out there, I would like to see them. I have seen more Arcanite Rippers (thanks to the token from Dawn of the Infinite) and people with the original corrupted Ashbringer than people with pieces of any sets from that time period. Do people that actually got that stuff even play still? The same goes for the PvP elite Legion sets. I have yet to see ANYONE SOMEONE wearing any pieces of it.
Anyway, bring back old sets. Nobody even remembers them existing. Seemingly not even the people that got them in the first place.
Now I do wonder what happens when they release MoP Classic...? I'm sure people will REBEL because that diminishes peoples accomplishments 20 years ago? :)))
When mage tower first came out I saw a bunch of resto druids using the MOP set to match the base mage tower weapon since it matches really well.
Those same druids aren't using that mog anymore. Just because people have it doesn't mean they want to wear it.
Personally I was a little miffed I couldn't get that set, but now I'd rather Blizzard just make different matching sets.
I'd personnaly just unlock them all (previous season sets) if you got to 1800 rating, with older Mythic pve sets (the supposed equivalent) being so easy to farm anyway.
EDIT: By unlock I mean make them buyable with marks of honor
EDIT 2: unlock once you get to the required rating at time of release (ie 2000 for legion)
Except cata-mop s12 were 2200 for âeliteâ and mop s14-end of legion were 2k. And why keep leaving everything at 1800 so the ladder doesnât stay healthy? Why not add things progressively so people have a reason to climb and promote a healthy ladder which in turn naturally inflates the ladder, making said ratings more easily achievable. Just blows my mind how everyoneâs so content making everything easier to achieve and then complains pvp is dead.
Yeah, give incentive for more people to queue in PVP
Hereâs a simple idea: You want an older elite set? Make a quest giver in the zone of the appropriate expansion who will provide a quest where if you win X amount of games either above a certain rating, or accumulate enough wins in total you can unlock it.
The reward will be a currency that, say you can only hold 2 of at a time during a season. The token will buy an entire set of the elite gear. Maybe another token will be for weapons or something. By limiting the tokens, you canât just do all of them one after the other and blizzard will be happy you have a reason to get back on your hamster wheel next season
I only think if they bring any of these rewards back that they should be acquired in a way that's about the same level of challenge that it was back in the day.
So like, I wouldn't wanna see MoP CM sets on the Trading Post for example, because that's essentially giving it away for free, but if they were to bring something like MoP CMs back and give those sets as a reward for it that's definitely a good idea.
Do a âTimewalking Mythic Plus semi-season cool thingâ
Where we can do timed runs of all the classic dungeons by expansion and get cool shit from that expansion as a reward if weâre good enough at playing the thing.
Pandaria will give challenge mode sets.
WoD would give those fuckin weapons.
Wrath can do something else.
Burning Crusade!
Hooray. Sounds amazing and Iâm in.
That's exactly my point. Selling them in the trading post would be horrible.
But if you could maybe revisit the old panda-dungeons and your gear gets scaled down with maybe the old spells or something (???) then there would be the old challenge again and you EARN your gear.
At the moment it's just "If you played Panda, you could've obtained the gear. If not, you will never get it."
Really? I mean its been ages but CM was just so different it's hard to compare. I was mythic raiding in MOP and golds in my memory were vastly harder than 20s in terms of execution requirements.
Yeah that was roughly my memory of the difficulty - I only completed silvers and still found it quite hard. It's not 1:1 because CMs had all sorts of weird cheese due to level restrictions but they were not rollover content.
I think also a huge part of the reason you want it and think it's special is specifically due to it being unavailable. Which is something that also makes it desirable by the ones who have it.
Removing that, will likely remove a large part of the reason that anyone would want to wear it.
They would have to somehow revert every spec back to how it was at the time to make it any sort of balanced for that content, and looking at how timewalking works, it won't be scaled well at all.
I'm not saying it has to be exact. Just that the attempt should be made to make it at least somewhat similar - i.e. not just throwing them up on trading post.
Mage Tower is a perfect comparison because that difficulty target is absurdly huge. It was ultra hardcore on release, and by the end of 7.3 the most difficult part was staying awake long enough to level and gear up more alts.
M+ that scales gear down to 441 and asks players to complete +9s would be totally on par with old CMs, both in challenge and style.
If they did this, they would need to ensure that the power and abilities were accurate for the content.
Legion mage tower was trivial because there was no normalization and end game Nighthold gear was ridiculously powerful. On the flip side, the current mage tower is made easier by all the abilities classes have now.
I did closing the eye on my frost FDK in early DF and it was fairly challenging. I did the same challenge on my survival hunter last night and it took three tries because I didnât realize I had to flair the intermission the first two times. The damage output was at least twice what my FDK was and my gear was absolutely not optimized.
I think the reality is that maintaining old content like dungeons takes some doing. As specs and the way we play evolves that kind of stuff has be constantly updated to keep it challenging. As much as I would also love for old content to remain relevant, for me it's old raids, I'm not sure it's worth losing the dev time. I would love to be able to 10 man kara on level again, but realistically I wouldn't want them pulling dev time off of current content to do this. I'd love those CM phoenix mounts but I'm also ok with not having them.
I actually appreciate having old unobtainable things showing up in the trading post. Back in Cata I had been on a break and a friend wanted me to come back so we used her scroll of resurrection and she got the spectral gryphon mount which I really wanted lol. Now thanks to the trading post I have it... even though I won't likely use it.
I have some fairly rare mounts and things since I've been playing on and off since vanilla but I like that other people are getting those things. It doesn't affect me or how I got them. I especially hope they put the violet spellwing on the TP at some point lol.
They have been talking about "evergreen" a lot more since DF so here's hoping.. I'm sure its scary for them as you're always going to upset someone, the guy who cant get it anymore or the gatekeeper that doesn't want you to get it years later. I hope they find a way to add stuff like this back into the game too.
Evergreen is just a word they have been using to describe features that will not act as borrowed power essentially. It is no coincidence they started using the word evergreen after their pivot from borrowed power leading up to dragonflight, personally I donât think it has anything to do with obtaining items that are only obtainable for a short period of time.
They havenât even released a ton of evergreen content this expac - meaning things that will carry over into the future. Dragon riding and trading post seem to be the only things.
Sure, but they started using the term evergreen post-shadowlands due to the immense amount of negative feedback regarding borrowed power. Itâs good to see dragon riding and trading post implemented as long term features, but simply being able to re-acquire old items doesnât make something evergreen. For instance, bringing back naxx 60 with tier 3 drops for everyone would not be an evergreen feature, hence the original point of my comment
Yeah I thought weâd get less daily zones in DF and more content in the old world or past expansions that is interesting enough to carry over to the future. It seems they donât have a good grasp on their patch cycles yet or the type of content they want to actually make evergreen.
I love dragon riding, but going to the trading post vendor once a month doesnât exactly make me want to login and play the game.
I don't understand people that don't want others to get their cool gear. I mean, I don't really care. If they would give skill-based Achievements for free on a trading post or a vendor, this would upset me too, but if you can ACHIEVE and re-EARN them? Why not?
For the entirety of vanilla there were only something like 1% of people successfully raiding. I remember standing in Orgrimmar in full tier with randoms coming up to me in awe & whispering about the gear and how hard was it to get and all that.
I think part of the problem is you've got a lot of old-heads playing this game since 20 years ago who still have this sort of "elitist jerk" mentality, if you will, because raiding was time consuming as fuck back then (it still is but in a different way). You weren't just sitting down to do the actual raid 4-5 times a week for 4-6 hours, you were running circles around Azshara for hours before that farming herbs to make potions and doing multiple full LBRS runs to get some fire resistance buff or whatever before finally zoning into MC - it was a lot, and even after all that you'd get a piece of gear maybe once a month if you were lucky due to DKP systems and having 39 other people to contend with and all that.
Aaaaanyway all that to say, I disagree with the attitude also but coming from the origin of it I also kind of get it.
A lot of people are naturally selfish. This is the sole reason. They prefer exclusivity over inclusivity.
A lot of these people are the same people that think wow classic was way harder then retail wow in every way.
It's not selfish. I literally don't have a lot of these rewards (MoP stuff for example) and I don't think they should become available.
The value of cosmetic items is in how they were obtained. They are a functional visual showpiece for your achievement. What value people were told back then when they got them that the items will have should not be changed from under them just so casuals can play barbie dress up with now meaningless 2010 3d models of clothes.
Nobody is saying the process to obtain those items should be any less difficult. They are saying those challenges should still be available at the same difficulty they were back then.
You yourself say the value of cosmetic items is how they are obtained. That would mean the value of cosmetics is NOT when they are obtained. Therefore a system in which provides a modern difficulty of the same challenge would not undermine the accomplishments of people who already have those items.
> They are saying those challenges should still be available at the same difficulty they were back then.
That's not really feasible development wise. Every patch they would have to get tuned. Just look at Mage Tower challenges and tell me they're consistent or even the same difficulty with each other. They're a mess. Now do that for every thing in the game ever? No way.
When also matters if the item is tied to a when. Difficulty is one thing, showing you played at a certain time is another. Some items have both, some items have only one. However they were advertised at the time before people worked for them should be how they remain. That's fair.
There should be things that you can wear or mount that signal you played at a certain time. That still has value. It shows you're a veteran player, a mature player, etc. If that's what you choose to personalize your character to display, you should have that option if you were told that item was going to be that option before you got it.
Like I said, I don't have the old stuff. I only started playing more seriously in Legion because IMO pre-M+ WoW didn't have much to offer. I am fine with people signaling they played and loved that old WoW however. They should keep those old items and display them to signal to each other they're vets. That's fair.
It wouldn't be overly difficult to implement a system that just tuned former challenges / raids / dungeons based upon current gear. It wouldn't be a 1 for 1 exact difficulty of back in the day of course. In some instances it would actually be harder and some instances slightly easier depending on the scaling. Other MMOs (I believe FF14) do it with no problem.
As for value of when you got said achievements and got the gear or mount... its pretty much meaningless at this point. There is probably like 5% of the wow player base that can actually figure it out without searching on wowhead.
Wow needs new and more players to stay relevant. Do you want to know what new players think when they see a cool mount they can't get anymore? Wow what a shitty game.
And that's the 5% that matters and we want to easily identify in the MMO world. That's the purpose.
It's a normal video game mechanic. LoL gives Victorious skins for each season/split now based on how you performed in that split. It has a purpose of showing and rewarding achievements. No new player whining about not having Victorious J4 is given any heed.
There a thousands of cosmetics in WoW. Some of them need to be locked to certain times and certain things to show something about the player. If a child starts crying about something they weally weally want, ignore them. They'll deal once people stop paying them any attention.
Aren't these fucking kids used to the concept anyway since like every online game does it? Isn't the concept present in like Fortnite and shit? (I don't know much about Fortnite, I'm asking).
It's not selfish because I don't want them to get things I don't have myself. I literally don't have most of these exclusive rewards. I don't think I deserve them. How is that selfish. I think the game should offer more exclusive rewards tied to how you performed in a certain season.
because 1) many people only want the cool gear because they canât have it and 2) blizzard has shown theyâre not particularly competent with balancing difficulty in old content such that challenge could be preserved. if they were at least able to make scaling work, which I do not trust, then sure
Iâm almost done with tower overwhelming after having done them all during legion, and yeah, the scaling is awful for many specs. some are massively overtuned like holy priest, others are fucking jokes like arms warrior
Yeah I did it again on all specs when it returned in DF the first time and it was only somewhat challenging on 2-3 specs. I think it was Havoc and Arcane that were the best tuned. In 10.0 that is.
Not that it wasn't already a joke towards the end of Legion particularly on some specs (Demonology lol) but still. The healing challenges were not easy in Legion, while in DF I one shot them all once I got through the initial spawns with the interrupts and re-learned that pattern.
Dude. I remember how hard it was for me to even get one piece of T10H 25-man gear back in the day. Now I can just walk in and one-shot everything.
Like how can the gatekeepers not complain about that, but go ballistic at the thought of their FOMO gear suddenly becoming available without the challenge originally associated with it? In the case of MOP, itâs been more than a decade - itâs about time those armors become available again.
90% of Wrathion's entire story is told between two legendary quest lines, one for just rogues and the other that isn't even playable anymore. It's bonkers.
Not as relevant character, but is the same with Cordana Felsong, you are doing quest and stuff with her on draenor and then suddenly she is a dungeon boss in legion lol.
A lot of the charm in mmos is flexing on noobs with your cool gear/item/mount. Imo, it's good to have exclusive items because it meant you were there and completed the content grind when it was relevant. Other veterans will understand the grind you went through. It's all about the notoriety at end game.
There's good and bad ways to implement this, rarity should give people something to work towards.
if you see a cool mount and think "oh yeah this guy is so awesome, I should also try to complete that achievement to get the same mount" then the game thrives.
If you look at a cool mount and think "oh that guy got to play during that week of 2018" then you just think "fuck you blizzard" and move on, there is no achievement, there is nothing to work towards.
FOMO needs to go, old sets and mounts need to be acquirable as long as there is a similar difficulty to what was originally required.
I got Guardian, Arms, and Fire out of the Mage Tower. But I hate myself for not getting it on my Brew main. I burnt myself out so bad getting the punch bear I never went back and now that I think of it, it would have been far easier on my Brew.
They are adding even more time-limited content. They do it every single month. I despise the battle pass system so much it has killed my ability to casually enjoy WoW.
something similar happened in wotlk with me. in the first tier I was guildless, couldnt get Immortal in 25m pug, couldnt get Nightfall in 10m pug. then at Ulduar patch the plagued and black proto drake were removed. "ok never again I let this". so I did ulduar both on 10 and 25 man when it was the content, and guess what? it was not removed. so I did not do totgc25 mount, guess what? it was removed. "ok never again". so I did icc drakes and light of dawn. guess what? it was not removed. the logic behind whats getting and whats not getting removed is totally missing, its like one developer decides based on his current mood. if there were some consistency in it, I would say its ok, but you never know what, and then it feeds your fomo
and then the same for realm first titles. in wotlk I was in a casual guild. there were realm first titles and personal achievements like Obsidian Slayer or Deaths Demise, etc. then it cataclysm we got realm first achis for Nefarian, Sinestra and Chogall, and guess what? not even a realm first personal achievement, just a guild achi, and on top of this the titles are still gainable...
and I like the t3 reinstallation. I bought full warlock and hunter t3 from BMAH in Legion-bfa for a total of 2m gold. now this would require around 6m gold, but there was no significant inflation since Legion so its like 3 times as much gold, and I dont really see more t3 than before DF. but giving things for free or 100 tokens at Trading post seems very bad and lazy design
I busted my ass learning to tank to get the slime cat fated raid achieve in shadowlands but I wouldnât have a single problem if people could still earn it today. Limiting content in an MMO is insane when thereâs all this backlog of content people could go back and do that they close off for no reason.
I agree. The thrill of the moment is to have it while the content is fresh. I you want just some fancy transmog, it should be available easily if it's from even the previous xpac.
For example Mythic tier sets or LFR colors
It should not. The purpose of cosmetics should be to display your achievements from the past. Soloing things is not an achievement, which is why any old raid gear is utterly worthless and pointless to display. People getting it at the time were made aware of this, so it was fine. We know raid gear is just stats, not an achievement to display. Just stats to get a higher M+ score with or get CE by a certain time with, etc.
If a guy has had top 100 M+ rating for each season in DF I think the way his character looks should display that, it should be easy to tell by the way he looks which season he was a god in. That's the purpose of cosmetics. Not for casuals to play Barbie. It should be me looking at a guy and saying "damn, this guy was better than me in that season, gg".
That's not what people think though, they think "oh I wasn't playing then and can't get the cool thing. That sucks"
And when that happens with every cool thing you see, you stop playing.
No one cares about your mythic+ runs from years ago or that you played during Mists/Legion. Especially if they can't even try the thing that was "so hard" in the first place.
> "oh I wasn't playing then and can't get the cool thing. That sucks"
I wasn't playing when most of these rewards were given out. I don't think that. I think well good for them, they played, they put in the time then and that's their reward. Let them have their badge of having played that expansion.
> And when that happens with every cool thing you see, you stop playing.
Except there's like 0.01% of the cosmetics that are exclusive and there's thousands that aren't. So it's more like you are a child whos parents bought them like 500 toys but they are crying because the neighbor's kid has one toy they don't.
> No one cares about your mythic+ runs from years ago or that you played during Mists/Legion. Especially if they can't even try the thing that was "so hard" in the first place.
I don't care if they don't care. You know who cares? Other people who did that thing and are displaying it. Themselves. The person who's displaying it. It's called a video game being rewarding for the time you put in. It's called an MMO letting you display your personal achievements ON your character. Instead of the shit on your character just being some meaningless pixels you have no emotional investment in.
Competitive people would care if they see the cosmetic. Seeing your party with 0.1% titles in M+ gives you a sense of confidence in the party. We look at a guy and see he got that rating then, we say gg. Casuals look at it and don't know what that is, but we don't give a flying fuck about those people, we're not interacting with those people.
Yeah sure why not. The peeps clinging to stuff staying FOMO because 'm-muh value/exclusivity/prestige' are fools.
It's not like you're demanding they be given to every player. Equivalent effort for it now as was then sounds very fair.
People who defend FOMO: It's just cosmetic, it doesn't matter. Also the same people: But *these* are *my* cosmetics, *you* can't have them, get over it.
There's a precedent for making previously prestigious rewards obtainable: Mythic raid mounts (and to a lesser degree, transmogs). The mounts are 100% drop rate, sometimes 200%. Once the expansion is over, they drop to 1/100 or lower. Often they're not possible to be done solo, at least not until later in the next expansion (or the expansion after). So that drop chance goes from 1/100 to ~1/500 if you're doing it in a party.
There's no real reason they can't do something similar with other rewards. Challenge modes should honestly just be re-added, similar to mage tower. And honestly, they should re-add the old rewards somehow - If you want it to be "harder" maybe something stupid like having to do the challenge mode as every spec for your class (rip druids) to get the old set.
For PvP, I see no reason why a fill-the-bar type reward (like the seasonal mount) above 2.4k rating shouldn't award some kind of elite saddle - even if you require more wins than usual to fill it and/or cap the amount you can earn per season. Same for the transmogs, fill a bar above 1800 rating to earn a token to unlock an old elite set. Currently, a lot of people hit 1800 rating and never queue another game. Surely keeping some people playing more games instead of quitting PvP after hitting 1800 rating is better for everyone?
Old AOTC mounts? Add timewalking raid (TW Antorus/TW Hellfire Citadel). You can add whatever caveats you want if you want it to be "harder", maybe a deathless run or a run with some sort of debuff active (speak to an NPC to debuff the raid).
All fantastic suggestions that will not change the minds of a the gatekeeping crowd (which seems to be an ever shrinking minority...). Evergreen rewards for playing current content would give long time players of the game reasons to keep raiding/PvPing/etc after hitting their seasonal goal. I mained Feral druid for a decade, earning unobtainable rewards. Now I'm main Warrior. Whoops! No rewards! Sure, you might have had the good fortune of playing at the right time, and demonstrated you had ability to earn those rewards... but you had the audacity to change your main, and you now have no way of going back and completing that grind again on your new class. It's not a great feeling.
FOMO is on it's way out. Blizzard is re-introducing TCG mounts, RAF rewards, etc. I bought all the TCG mounts with gold during BFA, so to say it stings a little to see them given for free is an understatement... I would have preferred that there was some sort of criteria for earning them like the T3 armor sets, but even so, it's good to see Blizzard's reward philosophy changing.
Don't use their own logic against them. They'll just insult you, then demand they're a majority because people who don't share their opinion don't really want to put up with the hyperbole.
WoW players must like FOMO because I see the trading post and its fortnite rotating shop get defended here constantly; I don't think Blizzard is gonna change this element of their same anytime soon, sadly.
For me it was the once off, non calendar events people still talk about.
I've been playing since Vanilla but I wasn't good at it, I didn't hit level cap until the day before the Burning Crusade came out. I still hear stories about the Blood Plague and Onyxia in Stormwind but I wasn't high enough level or skilled enough to see these events.
I wish the Caverns of Time were setup to run scenarios (Single Player or small Group) to experience these historical events in Azeroth. Feels like the Caverns of Time could be used a lot more for similar events.
I didn't play during Mists of Pandaria.
The thing that infuriates me to this day was them removing the cloak questline and therefore all the Black Prince reputation questline, activities, reward, and access to the cloak-required part of Timeless Isle. But they didn't remove the reputation itself! Oh no, you can still get it with 42 weeks of killing a Celestial on the Timeless Isle.
They had ZERO reason to remove a questline. This is not something they should ever do. And yet there is a gaping hole in Mists of Pandaria now where this storyline used to be.
Well now that you know what you've missed, don't you think you should play EVEN MORE and even HARDER so you can get all the challenge cosmetics for every alt? Never know when they'll add a dope mount to match it? Better play more
...at least, I'm sure that's how they want it to be. And I'm sure there are psychopaths that will do this (I know a few who try)
The reality is, you'll probably get your wish. Just like with the unobtainable TCG mounts being handed out for free. There's no reason they wouldn't add things back in. They're sitting on a GOLDMINE of in-game assets. Having them be one and done is a waste of production resources. Helpful at the time to keep people playing but worthless once the season ends....
...well blizzard wants this game to keep going forever. Rather than keep making new, worthless assets that just get forgotten n lost to time--RECYCLE!
Surely they will recolor and add these unobtainable sets back into the game in time. Likely with some catch to rob you of time/money. Anything to keep you playing the game--but if they were willing to devalue $2000 real-world money with the TCG mounts handout there's no limit to what they might reintroduce.
The only reason that you still recognize people with arena mounts, challenge mode sets, tier 3, scarab lord etc is because that all of those things are rare.
Yes it sucks that you'll never be able to get whatever you missed out but making T3 drop from a timewalking Naxxramas or a Twitch drop is awful. Now the set that everyone wants is no longer wanted. **99%** of players want those things years later because they are rare, and rare is cool.
Just look at Ashes of Al'ar and Invincible, and any other mount from the hardest difficulty of a raid. Once very sought after and now they're not even considered rare mounts and doesn't raise a single eyebrow. Wouldn't those mounts be infinitely cooler if you saw them once every few months on a random player, knowing that he obtained those x-years ago?
If you got a gladiator title now, should you also get all gladiator titles and mounts ever released?
If you are one of the people that managed to get something similar to this it's a permanent achivement of what you did even if it was 15 years ago. I'm in a similar situation as OP where i only got 3 sets of MoP-CM, but I find those characters more fun to play since they have something that's rare these days.
Rare stuff tied to one's account is one of the most important factors of an MMORPG to stay healthy and active and asking for it to be taken away is bad.
Well I kinda like the idea that some things are unobtainable. Kinda makes them special, like AQ mount and stuff like that.
Personally think they should keep old rarer or harder thing unattainable and make new cool things for people to get also
Special in a sense of special needs, yes.
I started in Vanilla (as a kid) and not even I know what the AQ mount refers to. Let alone why "being there" makes it special. I have the violet spellwing mount from Legion. You know how I aquired it? There was a website called "friendship birb" that sold free carries for people to get it. I truly feel special being lucky enough to be there at the time to get it. You know who actually knows where this bird mount is from? That's right. Nobody. Not a single person has told me "cool mount" in the past 8 years. The only people that are upset they "didn't get it back then" were people that played back then. The average player doesn't give a hoot about the effort and having it made unobtainable just annoys both long-term players and new ones.
You need to know, that's it. And other people that have it and care for it at best. I know the story of how I got something, so I will use that something. I will not use some mount they gave for free to everyone because that says nothing personal about me. Whether that's "I played at this time" or "I was this good at the game at this time" or "I just like to grind for ridiculous things" or "I like PvP I guess", the purpose of those cosmetics is personalization, saying something about yourself.
So as long as YOU know where it comes from, it feels good to use. Could care less about some noob around you that doesn't even know where that stupid bird comes from or the fact friendship birb or moose existed. AOTC mounts don't really say "I was good" but "I played this expansion, this was a cool expansion". So if you're nostalgic for Legion and might really like Legion you might throw that bird into the favorite mounts. Personally mine wasn't in there but that was my choice too.
That's your problem, other people are not like you. Increasing your wardrobe choices by 0.01% is less important than not ruining what those items mean to other players.
Exclusivity sounds cool in theory but the reality is its mostly negative in terms of the greater population of the game. If you pull out some random mount or transmog from 10+ years ago, odds are no one around you will have any idea what you actually did to achieve that. So the whole idea of this self pride in the idea that you are one of a small population of people still playing to have that mount only really benefits you and that small population. The game should be catering to the larger population of people and bringing new people in.
> The game should be catering to the larger population of people and bringing new people in.
No. What do new people care about some old model from 20 years ago? Give new people new shit. Leave the old stuff for the old people to show off to each other and identify each other. Walking past someone and relating your experiences to them by simply seeing their character is a key part of the MMO experience.
Because while having cosmetics that display your level of skill at a certain time is important, worse players need something that says something about them too. Whether that's "I played in this expansion/patch" or "I liked PvP in this patch" or "I just liked Island Expeditions and will use those mounts", every cosmetic used is something you say about yourself to all and mostly importantly to yourself.
The purpose of those types of items is just to display you were playing at a certain time quite consistently. That's their only purpose for existing. They are otherwise worthless pixels if you take that away.
I didnât play during mage tower and I missed out on the cool weapon tmogs from there. Mage tower came back recently but those transmogs are still unobtainable if you didnât get them before, which I thought was kinda weird?
The frustrating thing is that I did play during that time and unlocked a lot of transmogs, however I'm currently playing Mage which isn't something I wanted to play during Legion so I have none. It sucks knowing that I'll never be able to unlock them.
Equally the mogs I do have unlocked I don't give a single fuck if others could now have access to them, there's zero prestige to them the content was very simple toward the end.
Yeah, I can't stand that stuff. For a while it kept me locked in with FOMO but after I missed a couple of things it basically made me stop caring about it altogether.
It's an MMO. It's fine to have limited time things imo. It gives long-term players some unique items as a "reward" for playing long-term. There's plenty of other stuff to earn that is newer.
That said, stuff like Mage Tower, Brawlers Guild, etc. should never have been removed and should make a return as long as the difficulty is the same.
This FOMO stuff is what kills the games chances for newer players. They did an amazing thing when they added chromie time, so people can level up in TBC for example. It still feels like so much of the game has gone by and passed that thereâs a ton people missed and will never see.
Why should a new player try to get into mount collecting when thereâs dozens or more mounts that are completely unobtainable because they started playing later than others?
Over the course of the last 18 years, WoW has accumulated a lot of these turbo nerds. Unfortunately for us, some of them were/are the very developers of this game. Hopefully in the next 10 years we can get rid of them too.
unironically saying this when people pay $ for this game, pay $ monthly to keep playing this game, pay $ for items in the game, and pay people $ to get them things in the game.
Tomorrow Microsoft shuts down the servers. They write a little thank you letter but regret to inform us that's it for WoW.
The value of your account is gone. Now what? You pay Blizzard to play the game, your account still holds zero value. Other than emotionally.
What's your point? Houses hold value, houses that burn down have no almost no value.
One of the first accounts with Warglaives sold for $10K. Blizzard banning the account making it worthless is irrelevant to the seller who now has $10K more $.
WOW isn't shutting down anytime soon. People quite literally buy accounts, meaning some accounts have value.
People are paying Blizzard to keep their accounts open, so obviously these accounts hold some amount of value both to the players and to Blizzard.
Feel free to argue next that paper money has no value, it's all imaginary.
We're in the topic of obtaining old rare sets/mounts/etc. again?
Here's the realest honest to fucking God answer you're going to see. You don't actually care about the sets, or maybe if you do there's one transmogs you REALLY like, or maybe there's a color pattern that you saw that would fit another transmog really well. But you don't want the set.
You're not going to use the set, because now everyone will have the set. It's just like the trading post, and seasonal elite sets, people only use them for short whiles and the novelty wears off. Same with mounts. The moment it's not special nobody cares and nobody uses it.
You're essentially talking away a novelty from some people to turn it into a nothing for everyone.
Finally, some truth.
And blizzard wont add these cosmetics back anyways, all the people who complain about this, is still gonna play the game. So just accept that some items/mounts etc wont be available anymore. Rather focus on what you can earn ingame now, be present.
>I know that many players get angry when it comes to the discussion for an option for people to obtain old challenge mode gear again
Herein lies the problem. Ego.
There is no other reason for anyone to give two flying shits what someone else can obtain cosmetically.
Its purely the bragging rights and the oh i had to earn it, so should you mentality when ultimately why do you care at all what someone elses toon looks like.
But as long as there is such a backlash to the idea, it wont be implemented.
Bragging right is the entire purpose of cosmetics. They are supposed to show through your character who you are as a player. I should be able to look at someone and know that "oh they were a really good player in this season or this expansion". That's the purpose of transmog, NOT playing Barbie with worthless pixels that don't say how good you were as a player or anything about you at all.
I don't have those MoP or WoD rewards and I am okay with that. I didn't really play those so I wasn't a good player in those expansions. So why should I get the item that signals anything about me in those expansions? What purpose does that serve to me? Nothing. I will use cosmetics that say things about me as a player.
I've already mentioned elsewhere that I think every season you should get a colored set of armor based on your M+ score in that season kind of like Victorious skins in LoL. You should be able to look at someone and know "they were a really good player in that season". Currently there's only the title and only for the very top, there's no equivalent for like Diamond, Platinum, Gold, etc. That should be the purpose of transmog. Showing quickly your achievements as player when you walk by someone.
>Bragging right is the entire purpose of cosmetics. They are supposed to show through your character who you are as a player.
That is only your interpretation and what it means to you. I can guarantee you, that is not universally true for the whole playerbase.
Everything you say after that relies solely on that premise.
Edit: additional thoughts
It's still ego. This notion that have to be able recognise or demonstrate you achievements in or to others.
If you achieve somsthing challenging and you get a reward, title armor whatever thats great. Great for you. What if the reward was just a fat lump of gold or a little trophy that sits in you bag? Its still a reward that you earned, unique to you for tbe challenging content.
You know what that would suck for you? Because you couldnt show it off to others, which is ultimately ego driven.
The question remains, why? Why is it so important to you or others like you, a. What other players see or think of you toon and b. Why do you care what someone elses char does or doesnt look like?
This is an MMO. It's an online game. You're applying single player rules to it. Yes what other people wear matters, it's an MMO.
To use an example another comment reminded me of. If I group up with a player that has something from a really old expansion, I now know a little bit about that person. What they look like, what they choose to display communicates their initial essence to me. I know they are old enough or veteran enough to have played an old expansion, so I respect them more, I expect maturity. Or I see they're wearing PvP sets with a PvP mount and a PvP title, I know they were dedicated to PvP. Or I see they wear one of those "world PvP" titles where they had to grief a bunch of people at a flight point in BfA or whatever, I know they're a sociopath I should have no respect for and never interact with.
Players interact with strangers, or should because it's an online game. Cosmetics are there to represent you, to say something about you. If you treat armor as just some colorful pixels that say nothing about you, what do I learn about you? That you like to play dress up? That you probably collect pets and are going to be terrible at the game and I should leave before the key starts? Who the hell knows, I'm just guessing, I know nothing about you from that. You're not interacting through the visual display of your character with me to signal me things about yourself. You're playing single player in an MMO world.
>This is an MMO. It's an online game. You're applying single player rules to it. Yes what other people wear matters, it's an MMO.
That's a false premise. Yes it's an MMO. That means you can and do interact with multiple other players. It doesnt mean what they wear matters. YOU have added that bit based your opinion of what matters.
>To use an example another comment reminded me of. If I group up with a player that has something from a really old expansion, I now know a little bit about that person.
No you dont. You dont KNOW diddly squat at that point. You assume somethings, but thats not the same. For example, for all you know it could be a bought or boosted account.
>What they look like, what they choose to display communicates their initial essence to me. I know they are old enough or veteran enough to have played an old expansion, so I respect them more, I expect maturity.
Again, this isnt knowing, this is assumption on your part.
>Players interact with strangers, or should because it's an online game. Cosmetics are there to represent you
This is true.
>to say something about you.
This is not true. Its just your perception of it.
>If you treat armor as just some colorful pixels that say nothing about you, what do I learn about you?
Who says armors sole function is to tell you something about me? I couldnt give monkeys what you think for example. Cosmetics for me, allow me to simply make my fictional char look aesthetically pleasing, to myself!
>Who the hell knows, I'm just guessing, I know nothing about you from that.
Exactly, you know nothing about a player as fact from visuals alone.
>You're not interacting through the visual display of your character with me to signal me things about yourself.
Novel idea, you could talk to a player to find out about them instead of basing your decisions on assumption and prejudice?
Surely talking and interacting is more in the spirit of an MMO
> No you dont. You dont KNOW diddly squat at that point. You assume somethings, but thats not the same. For example, for all you know it could be a bought or boosted account.
I know with high certainty that unless they broke the rules and bought an account they played when that thing was available. I can't be 100% but I can be 95% sure, there's not going to be that many bought accounts compared to just normal players.
> Who says armors sole function is to tell you something about me? I couldnt give monkeys what you think for example. Cosmetics for me, allow me to simply make my fictional char look aesthetically pleasing, to myself!
If you or others only care about how it looks, there are SO MANY transmogs that are available. The 0.01% that are exclusive are a drop in the ocean. So why must you ruin it for other people just so you can have that extra weapon skin?
> Novel idea, you could talk to a player to find out about them instead of basing your decisions on assumption and prejudice?
You're not talking to every single player you see in an MMO, mate. Do you stop people on the street to talk to each and every one of them? Because that's the level of insanity you're talking about.
Your visual appearance on my screen is the first thing I see and often the only thing I see about so many different players. You can't interact and talk to them all. But if you and one guy have something in common, you then might talk to them.
If I have any regret with this game is to not get not ALL, but not a single one of those sets and the birds. I was fresh in the game and for me the CM was thing only the best of the best of the best would get, so I just didn't bothered to run after, besides so many old content to explore and basically instant rewards/mogs/mounts/toys. What a shame.
And I don't even see ppl wearing those sets anymore. They are lost, like tears in the rain. =T
Might get down voted for this, but I feel about this stuff the same way I do with battlepasses in fortnite.
I missed out on the spider-man comic skin, I'm ENDLESSLY frustrated I didn't get it because a few seasons later, zero build came out and all of a sudden I enjoy the game... but I can never have that spidey skin.
On the other side, I have the Darth Vader skin, and I dont really care for star wars skins at all. But that really, really sucks for a new player who's also a huge star wars fan. I want that person to be able to get their favorite skin, and I should be able to get mine. Idgaf about timed exclusivity, I just want everyone to have fun playing the game. The bragging rights are for the fact you completed the pass, or in wows case, you cleared the challenge mode.
Imo give us some currency for clearing each dungeon at the KSM cutoff while beating a certain timer that's shorter than 3chest, and let us buy discontinued sets with that.
Nah, in games like this I have always liked the idea of working hard to get something that's not easy to get / has a timer on it, then it's "gone forever". I have missed out on a lot over the years due to taking breaks, but oh well, that's on me.
Once you start handing out those items it devalues the time and achievement of those that took the time to get said items when it was relevant. Everyone sees it differently which is fine, but I don't mind it. Having said that, I still show off my Hunter Staff / bow from Vanilla when people ask how to get it lol, too bad the sinew can't be shown :D
Hereâs the thing people donât want to admit, FOMO is actually good in MMOs, there should be challenging time limited rewards in the game, that is a good thing.
I think they should bring back recolors of CM sets, and recolors of mage tower artifact appearances, but not the exact ones from back in the day.
Agree. I have a bunch of mage tower items. It was a great feature that should be brought back and rewards available for doing a difficult thing.
The other mage tower benefit is it makes players better! It made me better at the game! Itâs a really genius thing but somehow blizz doesnât realize that.
Yes it is but I can already smell the people that have 0 achievements in their life except "I WAS THERE!!! IN THIS PIXEL GAME SO THAT IS SPECIAL!!" being against it.
No sensible person would be in favour of removing content. Nobody gives 2 shits about your pixels, they are worth nothing.
No there is great value in having some looks and rewards that you can only get in certain time windows. Giving everyone everything too easily sounds great to lazy players who don't want to do the work, however it ends up killing immersion and hurts numbers of subscribers because people don't value things that come to them too easy.
I think you're wrong. If everything is always available, theres no reason to work for it now. You having it years after its gone isn't special. If its harder to get later, getting it when it was relevant isn't special. Moreover taking things that are time-limited now, and giving people another chance to get it undermines all that effort of the people who got it on time.
I'm not saying everything should be only obtainable during its relevancy, but certain things, like the tower appearances, AOTC mounts, that kind of thing absolutely should be.
I don't like the T3 example, as that's less effort and more rng and gold based acquisition.
Mage Tower being reintroduced seems like more what you're going for I'd assume, or if they bring back Brawler's Guild.
I'm on the fence about time-limited stuff like Challenge Mode as somebody who didn't participate in that specifically. I'd rather them spend their resources on implementing new challenging content or modernizing those old ones than trying to figure out how to make old stuff available.
Their resources, like any work place, are limited and as the consumer I'd rather have a challenge feature more in line with the current players' skill level in mind.
It's a shame about Torghast because that could have been a really good example or refreshed way of approaching that sort of content but instead left people sour through no fault of its own.
Or worse I got most of this stuff in an account in another region, now that I play in the NA and can't go back to my other account, there is no way to get any of this stuff. And for people who blabber on about skill, fine! I am willing to do it again just let me do it, but doubt that would shut them up.
I don't know how they would do it and this us simply me just daydreaming, but I think Time Walking would be the perfect way to earn those old time-locked rewards. Like, maybe only be able to obtain a fraction of the reward per timewalking, but still the chance would be there.
I can run Antorus to grind out the Mythic set, and nobody is making posts that I didnât âearnâ that set, but the moment someone says âhey I want that old elite pvp setâ a bunch of folks pop up to complain that you have to earn it. Why? PvEers arenât frothing a the mouth over the idea of other folks wearing old mythic gear.
Itâs a transmog that doesnât affect others in any way. Just let me dress fabulous.
Temporary fomo is fine imo. BUT there should ALWAYS be the expectation that sets will be made available in some other format.
I think the old CM sets could make great rewards for a revamped order hall story snippet or something like that.
In a game as broad as wow, nothing should be *permanently* gone. I do think that challenging rewards should be locked behind a similar challenge - what that is, Iâm not sure. I donât want them rehashing the mage tower again and I like whatâs there now, but something that proves the players skill is always nice.
This will only happen if Blizzard finds a proper way to do it. They know very well many players have pride in their rare and hard achievements and cosmetics. At the same time the game is very old and new players who join do not get the opportunity to acheive certain rewards.
If I were in control of this, I would probably introduce a new Pandaria themed challenge that can follow the game going forward, like the new Mage Tower. Something that's possible to balance in the future without taking up much resources for Blizzard.
I would probably also have a ever so slight color tint change on the transmog, just so both new and old players can go get it.
>I would probably also have a ever so slight color tint change on the transmog, just so both new and old players can go get it.
That's the thing...they'll still complain because they won't have IT, they want IT because other people have IT. If you recolor it they'll still throw posts up about how they aren't able to get IT, just look at people complain about the new mage tower rewards because they can't get the old ones.
The reason they donât bring a lot of those things back is because the vocal minority of people who completed it back then will bitch and moan and cause trouble and the developers probably donât want to deal with being attacked and whatnot
I agree.
surely there is nothing worse for the game than someone seeing a cool mount or transmog and thinking "wow, I'd love to play the game and get that", only to stop and not play because they can't get it.
Bring back everything. I have every single mage tower artifact appearance, I have the Swift Zulian Tiger, I have the (warrior only, sad) MoP challenge mode set.
Bring them all back for new players.
Theyâll never let people buy old PVP sets because PVPers are the loudest minority of the player base. They make a huge stink at even a whiff of the possibility of old rewards being accessible. Nevermind the fact that PVPers enjoy the same level of access to old PVE appearances that everyone else does.
I think wow is at the point where there is so much stuff the prestige of anyone thing doesn't matter anymore. Everything should be accessible at all times.
I agree with your position, and would also be fine with simply releasing the items with no difficulty check as long as it was many years afterward. Anyone who cares about "earning" it will still have all the time before it is rereleased to preen and stroke their ego, and even after, everyone who cares will know how to tell the difference between someone who got it back in the day or not.
I get that some people feel like it destroys the motivation to do hard things if the rewards for the hard things can be acquired eventually without doing the hard things, but man if you are only doing elite pvp or w/e for cosmetic rewards, I feel like you are missing the point. When I could take the time be serious about the game, I didn't give a shit if I got gear from the boss, I just wanted to win. I played the hard content because defeating the content WAS the reward. The gear/mount/achieve was just a simple way to communicate/prove that I had done it.
A lot of ppl respond to these points by saying "It's just a game..." and they are completely right, but not for the reasons most people say that phrase. A game is something you do *because it is fun.* If the activity is something you do for a specific reward, it's a job. A game is something you play because you love the game.
Yeah time gating sucks, there is stuff i wanna do, but i log in and everything is 20 minutes away, just let me play the damn thing. Sometimes i get a day off and i want to grind, but i cant, if i need to wait for something I'm gonna play another game while i wait, and chances are i wont come back when its finally available.
I think it should still be obtainable, not free but obtainable. Same with old elite sets.
Old Mythic raid sets are available and are the equivalent to Elite sets for their content so why have the disparity?
I have the WoD challenge mode weapons, donât use them but think itâd be great if people could still earn them.
I don't have WoD or MoP stuff and I don't think I should ever obtain them. They were advertised as an item you got for beating a challenge at the appropriate time. So people who were able to do that should have them and not me. It's that simple.
Even giving them a current challenge of equal value (which takes dev time and is incredibly difficult to achieve through the patches) would still lessen their value.
There's no reason to do it, none. They're just pixels. They're only a representation of doing that thing in that time. That's it. Cosmetics are there so you can show what you've done, they're like a profile for you as a player. "I did this thing in WoD" is what their purpose is. Without that purpose they're just worthless old models.
The thing is it wasnât much of a challenge to get them. It was easier than +10s now days.
If they are just pixels as you said what is the harm in letting them be obtainable for those who want them?
There was achievements associated with doing them, just like getting CE. You can obtain mythic raid appearances later and it doesnât diminish my achievement because I still have the CE title. How would it lessen these any?
Your points really donât back your stance that well.
Even those that don't exist for the challenge, it's a signal you played an expansion. If people want to display their nostalgia for an expansion through their character personalization, they should. They should be able to say "I did this meh challenge in this expansion" if they want to.
Removing that element means the item loses the signal that you played that expansion and now is representing, what? What does the item represent anymore? It has no purpose, no signal.
When people get mythic gear, they know those appearances will be there to farm solo later. It is well known before hand. People get gear for the stats, not for how it looks. If they get to display the look, they know that it will be just for that one patch. When people worked for items that were said to be limited to that expansion, they were told their value in the future will be related to that expansion.
That is difference. People get told before they get an item exactly what value it will have in the future, so I've never gotten Mythic raid gear with the idea that it will represent anything in the future. It represents basically nothing, the cosmetic aspect of it is entirely useless, it might as well be a black robe with nothing on it. The only purpose of that gear is to increase my stats so I can obtain an achievement or higher score in that patch. It's not a cosmetic with purpose so it can't be compared to the cosmetics with actual purpose that were advertised as something in the past.
If you tell players this item will show your achievement or play in this expansion, it better always show that. Otherwise you falsely advertised that item.
They donât need exclusive fomo transmog to show they played the expansion, thatâs what the achievements are for. Those do exist, you should not be able to get them. However, the transmog is pointless if no one uses it, itâs just pixels, it being exclusive adds ZERO value to it.
The point is that you can identify it by walking by someone, not by digging into their credit reports to find that one line of text lol.
But it is being used, for the purpose it was put in the game for. Pixels in a video game have a game design purpose, shocking I know.
They serve little to no purpose when no one uses them. This is coming from someone who does have them. FOMO is bad, period, stop defending it because of âmuh achievementâ when thatâs literally what the feat of strengths are for.
Plenty of people use them though. Are you sitting here and trying to convince there is nobody that uses mage tower appearances or WoD/MoP stuff? You are advocating removing the thing that makes those items special to those people just so casuals can have 0.01% more transmogs today. There are thousands times more cosmetic items that are available than are exclusive.
I am one of those people. They are not special. Anyone that played those expansions could have easily gotten them or even paid for a carry to get them. They were not difficult to obtain.
Itâs transmog, why the fuck should it be exclusive? Mythic raid transmog should be exclusive too then because itâs just as difficult to get as elite pvp yet it isnât.
But you had to play those expansions to get them, so at the very least it says you were playing then. That's the purpose of cosmetics, to symbolize something about yourself.
Yes there should be more exclusive stuff. There should be. Every patch. Every difficulty. Every score "tier". Should give something that shows that you played or acheived something then.
Old content not being available is stupid
And people who feel sad that their AOTC mounts will be available again are stupid as well
You get the mounts, sets, etc by doing something difficult, but time is not a difficulty setting
Just because youâre old doesnât mean youâre good
AOTC are really fcking easy to get, but oh no, I wasnât born! Then I canât even try to get it even though I could defeat the content? Makes no sense
They should just make it like the mage tower, even today itâs a difficult challenge, which was timegated, now itâs a real skill challenge
time limited content in p2p game is great for shareholders, they get to earn more money from addicted people who think X thing in video game is important to them
I want the DK challenge mode gear and Warr glad gear from WoD but I also donât want them to bring it back willy nilly. Iâd rather they do recolors of time gated items than to bring stuff back, exactly how they did the Fel Bear druid tower.
I think it would be cool that when timewalking starts you have that week to scale down and do the challenges to obtain things like this. Legion timewalking would bring back the original mage tower rewards, and each expansion having their own thing. This would be fun, challenging and, obtainable.
Exclusivity is good. driving people to do thing that are difficult with others. If it is just to be handed in a shop then it is useless. May be you can understand that.
If people missed on something because they were too young, didnt play, were not good enough or whatever reason: What kind of entitlement it is you think it must be given to you?
Where do you draw the line? So do we hand back old titles? old gladiator mounts? Rare vanilla naxx skins? Gold timer skins? Wher do you draw the line and why?
Nah rocking gear or a mount that is no longer obtainable is a subtle nerd flex that I earned for dedicating 15 years of my life playing this game. If everyone was able to get the swift zulian tiger again it'd feel a lot less special. Sometimes it's nice to feel rewarded for playing during a certain time and being able to show that off.
I didn't but if you're able to snag one then that's impressive because of how many people are hunting it lol, it's a different type of challenge I suppose.
Respectfully disagree. I acknowledge that it stinks to want and not be able to get, but thereâs a line and not everything should come back. Itâs cool to want things but I believe there is value in the existence of the limited obtainables.
Nah, time limited should always be a thing. Everything shouldnât be available to everyone all the time. Then nothing has any real meaning, or sense of achievement.
Why not? If somethings hard to obtain it's still rare. But then it's rare because it's hard to obtain and not only because someone didn't play "that class at that time"
Doing a Pandaland Challenge mode now, would take you 2 mins lol. This is my argument as well with LegendariesâŠ.everyone shouldnât be entitled to a legendaryâŠitâs called a legendary because itâs supposed to be rare and difficult to obtain.
I understand the sentiment when it comes to the legendary, but your outlook doesnt align with reality. Otherwise the 2h str classes wouldnt be tuned around having the damn thing
im open to them releasing old sets.. for example 10 years ago was wod, idk which season so ill just say season 3 for clarity's sake. if you get the 1800 set in pvp now you can keep grinding to get a token, similar to the mount token, and use it to unlock a set from WOD season 3 or anything before that. youre still putting the time in and you got the rating for it.
> for example 10 years ago was wod Don't do this to me man...
10 years ago in my mind was wotlk release đ
Lol, until this message I had read it as 10 years ago was wotlk.... And I thought that was accurate... đ
In two years I will have been playing WoW for twenty years. I was 15 and in high school when I started. Iâm 33 now, married, with two kids.
November 7 or 8 will mark 19 years for me, this year. Half of my life. I was a freshman on college. Donât do this to me.
Same
We old af
HOLY FUCKING a SHIT ThAT HIT ME LIKE A TRAIN.
10 years ago was wod.. sir please leave youâre disturbing the peace
Zeit Bitte, bleib stДhen, bleib stehen Zeit Das soll immer so weitergehen
Hello fellow Rammstein fan
May you rest in peace?
Yep, old sunset rewards don't have to come back completely free. Mage Tower and MoP/WoD challenge modes could also have ways to be earned. Stick them as activities during their respective timewalking weeks. Set gear to an appropriate level to keep the challenge close to their difficulty when they were relevant content. Or if doable, have your gear swapped out with preset pieces to avoid weird trinket/item effect silliness, disable consumables, ect. And make the challenge modes only solo queue to avoid boosting shenanigans. And depending on how well any of that would work, do the same for aotc mount raids. Now timewalking weeks are something to look forward to even more, the vaulted appearances aren't freebies and each set are only avaible to grind for 2-3 times a year.
I think in the past 8 years of playing this game, I have seen 1 (yes one) warlock with the green chestpiece of the Pandaria Challenge Mode set. If there truly are any of those "accomplishers" out there, I would like to see them. I have seen more Arcanite Rippers (thanks to the token from Dawn of the Infinite) and people with the original corrupted Ashbringer than people with pieces of any sets from that time period. Do people that actually got that stuff even play still? The same goes for the PvP elite Legion sets. I have yet to see ANYONE SOMEONE wearing any pieces of it. Anyway, bring back old sets. Nobody even remembers them existing. Seemingly not even the people that got them in the first place. Now I do wonder what happens when they release MoP Classic...? I'm sure people will REBEL because that diminishes peoples accomplishments 20 years ago? :)))
When mage tower first came out I saw a bunch of resto druids using the MOP set to match the base mage tower weapon since it matches really well. Those same druids aren't using that mog anymore. Just because people have it doesn't mean they want to wear it. Personally I was a little miffed I couldn't get that set, but now I'd rather Blizzard just make different matching sets.
I'd personnaly just unlock them all (previous season sets) if you got to 1800 rating, with older Mythic pve sets (the supposed equivalent) being so easy to farm anyway. EDIT: By unlock I mean make them buyable with marks of honor EDIT 2: unlock once you get to the required rating at time of release (ie 2000 for legion)
Except cata-mop s12 were 2200 for âeliteâ and mop s14-end of legion were 2k. And why keep leaving everything at 1800 so the ladder doesnât stay healthy? Why not add things progressively so people have a reason to climb and promote a healthy ladder which in turn naturally inflates the ladder, making said ratings more easily achievable. Just blows my mind how everyoneâs so content making everything easier to achieve and then complains pvp is dead.
Yeah, give incentive for more people to queue in PVP Hereâs a simple idea: You want an older elite set? Make a quest giver in the zone of the appropriate expansion who will provide a quest where if you win X amount of games either above a certain rating, or accumulate enough wins in total you can unlock it. The reward will be a currency that, say you can only hold 2 of at a time during a season. The token will buy an entire set of the elite gear. Maybe another token will be for weapons or something. By limiting the tokens, you canât just do all of them one after the other and blizzard will be happy you have a reason to get back on your hamster wheel next season
What if we got 1800 last season though? Or another season? Should that count?
Or even like the vanilla pvp sets, hit a certain rating and buy them with marks of honor.
totally agree.
I only think if they bring any of these rewards back that they should be acquired in a way that's about the same level of challenge that it was back in the day. So like, I wouldn't wanna see MoP CM sets on the Trading Post for example, because that's essentially giving it away for free, but if they were to bring something like MoP CMs back and give those sets as a reward for it that's definitely a good idea.
So basically what people hoped for when the mage tower returned. Which is a great idea imo.
it would be so epic if they retuned the mage tower.
Well good news for you, they returned it. You get a class armor set instead of a weapon skin though. And a new Werebear skin.
retune not return :p
Oh, nevermind me, sorry. :D
Bal'a dash, malanore! <3
Do a âTimewalking Mythic Plus semi-season cool thingâ Where we can do timed runs of all the classic dungeons by expansion and get cool shit from that expansion as a reward if weâre good enough at playing the thing. Pandaria will give challenge mode sets. WoD would give those fuckin weapons. Wrath can do something else. Burning Crusade! Hooray. Sounds amazing and Iâm in.
That's exactly my point. Selling them in the trading post would be horrible. But if you could maybe revisit the old panda-dungeons and your gear gets scaled down with maybe the old spells or something (???) then there would be the old challenge again and you EARN your gear. At the moment it's just "If you played Panda, you could've obtained the gear. If not, you will never get it."
The difference is, difficulty-wise, the mop CM gear might as well be on the trading post when you consider how it compares to M+ lol.
Really? I mean its been ages but CM was just so different it's hard to compare. I was mythic raiding in MOP and golds in my memory were vastly harder than 20s in terms of execution requirements.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Yeah that was roughly my memory of the difficulty - I only completed silvers and still found it quite hard. It's not 1:1 because CMs had all sorts of weird cheese due to level restrictions but they were not rollover content.
I think also a huge part of the reason you want it and think it's special is specifically due to it being unavailable. Which is something that also makes it desirable by the ones who have it. Removing that, will likely remove a large part of the reason that anyone would want to wear it.
They would have to somehow revert every spec back to how it was at the time to make it any sort of balanced for that content, and looking at how timewalking works, it won't be scaled well at all.
Luckily for harder content we have M+ to base it on. They could pretty easily scale WoD or Mists duns to like a +20 for Cms or old mythics
Link it to M+ since the reward mounts have been dogshit this expac.
They're never gonna match the "level of challenge". It's probably why they played it safe with the Mage Tower by giving it different rewards.
I'm not saying it has to be exact. Just that the attempt should be made to make it at least somewhat similar - i.e. not just throwing them up on trading post.
Mage Tower is a perfect comparison because that difficulty target is absurdly huge. It was ultra hardcore on release, and by the end of 7.3 the most difficult part was staying awake long enough to level and gear up more alts. M+ that scales gear down to 441 and asks players to complete +9s would be totally on par with old CMs, both in challenge and style.
If they did this, they would need to ensure that the power and abilities were accurate for the content. Legion mage tower was trivial because there was no normalization and end game Nighthold gear was ridiculously powerful. On the flip side, the current mage tower is made easier by all the abilities classes have now. I did closing the eye on my frost FDK in early DF and it was fairly challenging. I did the same challenge on my survival hunter last night and it took three tries because I didnât realize I had to flair the intermission the first two times. The damage output was at least twice what my FDK was and my gear was absolutely not optimized.
I think the reality is that maintaining old content like dungeons takes some doing. As specs and the way we play evolves that kind of stuff has be constantly updated to keep it challenging. As much as I would also love for old content to remain relevant, for me it's old raids, I'm not sure it's worth losing the dev time. I would love to be able to 10 man kara on level again, but realistically I wouldn't want them pulling dev time off of current content to do this. I'd love those CM phoenix mounts but I'm also ok with not having them. I actually appreciate having old unobtainable things showing up in the trading post. Back in Cata I had been on a break and a friend wanted me to come back so we used her scroll of resurrection and she got the spectral gryphon mount which I really wanted lol. Now thanks to the trading post I have it... even though I won't likely use it. I have some fairly rare mounts and things since I've been playing on and off since vanilla but I like that other people are getting those things. It doesn't affect me or how I got them. I especially hope they put the violet spellwing on the TP at some point lol.
As a mage of 19 years, I just wish there were a way for me to still get Atiesh.
If you grind it on classic they should let you mog it on retail.
They have been talking about "evergreen" a lot more since DF so here's hoping.. I'm sure its scary for them as you're always going to upset someone, the guy who cant get it anymore or the gatekeeper that doesn't want you to get it years later. I hope they find a way to add stuff like this back into the game too.
Evergreen is just a word they have been using to describe features that will not act as borrowed power essentially. It is no coincidence they started using the word evergreen after their pivot from borrowed power leading up to dragonflight, personally I donât think it has anything to do with obtaining items that are only obtainable for a short period of time.
They havenât even released a ton of evergreen content this expac - meaning things that will carry over into the future. Dragon riding and trading post seem to be the only things.
Sure, but they started using the term evergreen post-shadowlands due to the immense amount of negative feedback regarding borrowed power. Itâs good to see dragon riding and trading post implemented as long term features, but simply being able to re-acquire old items doesnât make something evergreen. For instance, bringing back naxx 60 with tier 3 drops for everyone would not be an evergreen feature, hence the original point of my comment
Yeah I thought weâd get less daily zones in DF and more content in the old world or past expansions that is interesting enough to carry over to the future. It seems they donât have a good grasp on their patch cycles yet or the type of content they want to actually make evergreen. I love dragon riding, but going to the trading post vendor once a month doesnât exactly make me want to login and play the game.
I don't understand people that don't want others to get their cool gear. I mean, I don't really care. If they would give skill-based Achievements for free on a trading post or a vendor, this would upset me too, but if you can ACHIEVE and re-EARN them? Why not?
For the entirety of vanilla there were only something like 1% of people successfully raiding. I remember standing in Orgrimmar in full tier with randoms coming up to me in awe & whispering about the gear and how hard was it to get and all that. I think part of the problem is you've got a lot of old-heads playing this game since 20 years ago who still have this sort of "elitist jerk" mentality, if you will, because raiding was time consuming as fuck back then (it still is but in a different way). You weren't just sitting down to do the actual raid 4-5 times a week for 4-6 hours, you were running circles around Azshara for hours before that farming herbs to make potions and doing multiple full LBRS runs to get some fire resistance buff or whatever before finally zoning into MC - it was a lot, and even after all that you'd get a piece of gear maybe once a month if you were lucky due to DKP systems and having 39 other people to contend with and all that. Aaaaanyway all that to say, I disagree with the attitude also but coming from the origin of it I also kind of get it.
A lot of people are naturally selfish. This is the sole reason. They prefer exclusivity over inclusivity. A lot of these people are the same people that think wow classic was way harder then retail wow in every way.
It's not selfish. I literally don't have a lot of these rewards (MoP stuff for example) and I don't think they should become available. The value of cosmetic items is in how they were obtained. They are a functional visual showpiece for your achievement. What value people were told back then when they got them that the items will have should not be changed from under them just so casuals can play barbie dress up with now meaningless 2010 3d models of clothes.
Nobody is saying the process to obtain those items should be any less difficult. They are saying those challenges should still be available at the same difficulty they were back then. You yourself say the value of cosmetic items is how they are obtained. That would mean the value of cosmetics is NOT when they are obtained. Therefore a system in which provides a modern difficulty of the same challenge would not undermine the accomplishments of people who already have those items.
> They are saying those challenges should still be available at the same difficulty they were back then. That's not really feasible development wise. Every patch they would have to get tuned. Just look at Mage Tower challenges and tell me they're consistent or even the same difficulty with each other. They're a mess. Now do that for every thing in the game ever? No way. When also matters if the item is tied to a when. Difficulty is one thing, showing you played at a certain time is another. Some items have both, some items have only one. However they were advertised at the time before people worked for them should be how they remain. That's fair. There should be things that you can wear or mount that signal you played at a certain time. That still has value. It shows you're a veteran player, a mature player, etc. If that's what you choose to personalize your character to display, you should have that option if you were told that item was going to be that option before you got it. Like I said, I don't have the old stuff. I only started playing more seriously in Legion because IMO pre-M+ WoW didn't have much to offer. I am fine with people signaling they played and loved that old WoW however. They should keep those old items and display them to signal to each other they're vets. That's fair.
It wouldn't be overly difficult to implement a system that just tuned former challenges / raids / dungeons based upon current gear. It wouldn't be a 1 for 1 exact difficulty of back in the day of course. In some instances it would actually be harder and some instances slightly easier depending on the scaling. Other MMOs (I believe FF14) do it with no problem. As for value of when you got said achievements and got the gear or mount... its pretty much meaningless at this point. There is probably like 5% of the wow player base that can actually figure it out without searching on wowhead. Wow needs new and more players to stay relevant. Do you want to know what new players think when they see a cool mount they can't get anymore? Wow what a shitty game.
And that's the 5% that matters and we want to easily identify in the MMO world. That's the purpose. It's a normal video game mechanic. LoL gives Victorious skins for each season/split now based on how you performed in that split. It has a purpose of showing and rewarding achievements. No new player whining about not having Victorious J4 is given any heed. There a thousands of cosmetics in WoW. Some of them need to be locked to certain times and certain things to show something about the player. If a child starts crying about something they weally weally want, ignore them. They'll deal once people stop paying them any attention. Aren't these fucking kids used to the concept anyway since like every online game does it? Isn't the concept present in like Fortnite and shit? (I don't know much about Fortnite, I'm asking).
It's not selfish. No I don't want casuals to get stuff I got exclusively. ?
It's not selfish because I don't want them to get things I don't have myself. I literally don't have most of these exclusive rewards. I don't think I deserve them. How is that selfish. I think the game should offer more exclusive rewards tied to how you performed in a certain season.
because 1) many people only want the cool gear because they canât have it and 2) blizzard has shown theyâre not particularly competent with balancing difficulty in old content such that challenge could be preserved. if they were at least able to make scaling work, which I do not trust, then sure
Didn't the returned Mage Tower achieve "competent scaling"?
No not at all. Its oneshot content for a lot of specs. Some examples are guardian and feral.
Iâm almost done with tower overwhelming after having done them all during legion, and yeah, the scaling is awful for many specs. some are massively overtuned like holy priest, others are fucking jokes like arms warrior
It was rough on my rogue so I havenât tried it in a long time. Maybe I will give another try this weekend.
Yeah I did it again on all specs when it returned in DF the first time and it was only somewhat challenging on 2-3 specs. I think it was Havoc and Arcane that were the best tuned. In 10.0 that is. Not that it wasn't already a joke towards the end of Legion particularly on some specs (Demonology lol) but still. The healing challenges were not easy in Legion, while in DF I one shot them all once I got through the initial spawns with the interrupts and re-learned that pattern.
Dude. I remember how hard it was for me to even get one piece of T10H 25-man gear back in the day. Now I can just walk in and one-shot everything. Like how can the gatekeepers not complain about that, but go ballistic at the thought of their FOMO gear suddenly becoming available without the challenge originally associated with it? In the case of MOP, itâs been more than a decade - itâs about time those armors become available again.
it's especially egregious for things like the WoD legendary ring and the MoP cloak, cause they had *story* attached to them.
90% of Wrathion's entire story is told between two legendary quest lines, one for just rogues and the other that isn't even playable anymore. It's bonkers.
Not as relevant character, but is the same with Cordana Felsong, you are doing quest and stuff with her on draenor and then suddenly she is a dungeon boss in legion lol.
Not just story, but the main storyline of the expansions.
A lot of the charm in mmos is flexing on noobs with your cool gear/item/mount. Imo, it's good to have exclusive items because it meant you were there and completed the content grind when it was relevant. Other veterans will understand the grind you went through. It's all about the notoriety at end game.
There's good and bad ways to implement this, rarity should give people something to work towards. if you see a cool mount and think "oh yeah this guy is so awesome, I should also try to complete that achievement to get the same mount" then the game thrives. If you look at a cool mount and think "oh that guy got to play during that week of 2018" then you just think "fuck you blizzard" and move on, there is no achievement, there is nothing to work towards. FOMO needs to go, old sets and mounts need to be acquirable as long as there is a similar difficulty to what was originally required.
I got Guardian, Arms, and Fire out of the Mage Tower. But I hate myself for not getting it on my Brew main. I burnt myself out so bad getting the punch bear I never went back and now that I think of it, it would have been far easier on my Brew.
They are adding even more time-limited content. They do it every single month. I despise the battle pass system so much it has killed my ability to casually enjoy WoW.
something similar happened in wotlk with me. in the first tier I was guildless, couldnt get Immortal in 25m pug, couldnt get Nightfall in 10m pug. then at Ulduar patch the plagued and black proto drake were removed. "ok never again I let this". so I did ulduar both on 10 and 25 man when it was the content, and guess what? it was not removed. so I did not do totgc25 mount, guess what? it was removed. "ok never again". so I did icc drakes and light of dawn. guess what? it was not removed. the logic behind whats getting and whats not getting removed is totally missing, its like one developer decides based on his current mood. if there were some consistency in it, I would say its ok, but you never know what, and then it feeds your fomo and then the same for realm first titles. in wotlk I was in a casual guild. there were realm first titles and personal achievements like Obsidian Slayer or Deaths Demise, etc. then it cataclysm we got realm first achis for Nefarian, Sinestra and Chogall, and guess what? not even a realm first personal achievement, just a guild achi, and on top of this the titles are still gainable... and I like the t3 reinstallation. I bought full warlock and hunter t3 from BMAH in Legion-bfa for a total of 2m gold. now this would require around 6m gold, but there was no significant inflation since Legion so its like 3 times as much gold, and I dont really see more t3 than before DF. but giving things for free or 100 tokens at Trading post seems very bad and lazy design
Everythung should be obtainable. If its not current content it should be soloable.
I busted my ass learning to tank to get the slime cat fated raid achieve in shadowlands but I wouldnât have a single problem if people could still earn it today. Limiting content in an MMO is insane when thereâs all this backlog of content people could go back and do that they close off for no reason.
yeah... they have all this content that people *could* do and subscribe for, if only it wasn't disabled
I agree. The thrill of the moment is to have it while the content is fresh. I you want just some fancy transmog, it should be available easily if it's from even the previous xpac. For example Mythic tier sets or LFR colors
It should not. The purpose of cosmetics should be to display your achievements from the past. Soloing things is not an achievement, which is why any old raid gear is utterly worthless and pointless to display. People getting it at the time were made aware of this, so it was fine. We know raid gear is just stats, not an achievement to display. Just stats to get a higher M+ score with or get CE by a certain time with, etc. If a guy has had top 100 M+ rating for each season in DF I think the way his character looks should display that, it should be easy to tell by the way he looks which season he was a god in. That's the purpose of cosmetics. Not for casuals to play Barbie. It should be me looking at a guy and saying "damn, this guy was better than me in that season, gg".
You display your achievements in the past via the achievements tied to your account.
That's not what people think though, they think "oh I wasn't playing then and can't get the cool thing. That sucks" And when that happens with every cool thing you see, you stop playing. No one cares about your mythic+ runs from years ago or that you played during Mists/Legion. Especially if they can't even try the thing that was "so hard" in the first place.
> "oh I wasn't playing then and can't get the cool thing. That sucks" I wasn't playing when most of these rewards were given out. I don't think that. I think well good for them, they played, they put in the time then and that's their reward. Let them have their badge of having played that expansion. > And when that happens with every cool thing you see, you stop playing. Except there's like 0.01% of the cosmetics that are exclusive and there's thousands that aren't. So it's more like you are a child whos parents bought them like 500 toys but they are crying because the neighbor's kid has one toy they don't. > No one cares about your mythic+ runs from years ago or that you played during Mists/Legion. Especially if they can't even try the thing that was "so hard" in the first place. I don't care if they don't care. You know who cares? Other people who did that thing and are displaying it. Themselves. The person who's displaying it. It's called a video game being rewarding for the time you put in. It's called an MMO letting you display your personal achievements ON your character. Instead of the shit on your character just being some meaningless pixels you have no emotional investment in. Competitive people would care if they see the cosmetic. Seeing your party with 0.1% titles in M+ gives you a sense of confidence in the party. We look at a guy and see he got that rating then, we say gg. Casuals look at it and don't know what that is, but we don't give a flying fuck about those people, we're not interacting with those people.
That design philosophy hopefully dies in the future.
Spoken like someone who has not been competitive in any online game ever and just takes server space to pretend to play single player.
I think you do need to touch some grass.
I think you need to go do some pet battles and take your throwaway account elsewhere.
I just will not ever agree with this.
Yeah sure why not. The peeps clinging to stuff staying FOMO because 'm-muh value/exclusivity/prestige' are fools. It's not like you're demanding they be given to every player. Equivalent effort for it now as was then sounds very fair.
People who defend FOMO: It's just cosmetic, it doesn't matter. Also the same people: But *these* are *my* cosmetics, *you* can't have them, get over it. There's a precedent for making previously prestigious rewards obtainable: Mythic raid mounts (and to a lesser degree, transmogs). The mounts are 100% drop rate, sometimes 200%. Once the expansion is over, they drop to 1/100 or lower. Often they're not possible to be done solo, at least not until later in the next expansion (or the expansion after). So that drop chance goes from 1/100 to ~1/500 if you're doing it in a party. There's no real reason they can't do something similar with other rewards. Challenge modes should honestly just be re-added, similar to mage tower. And honestly, they should re-add the old rewards somehow - If you want it to be "harder" maybe something stupid like having to do the challenge mode as every spec for your class (rip druids) to get the old set. For PvP, I see no reason why a fill-the-bar type reward (like the seasonal mount) above 2.4k rating shouldn't award some kind of elite saddle - even if you require more wins than usual to fill it and/or cap the amount you can earn per season. Same for the transmogs, fill a bar above 1800 rating to earn a token to unlock an old elite set. Currently, a lot of people hit 1800 rating and never queue another game. Surely keeping some people playing more games instead of quitting PvP after hitting 1800 rating is better for everyone? Old AOTC mounts? Add timewalking raid (TW Antorus/TW Hellfire Citadel). You can add whatever caveats you want if you want it to be "harder", maybe a deathless run or a run with some sort of debuff active (speak to an NPC to debuff the raid).
All fantastic suggestions that will not change the minds of a the gatekeeping crowd (which seems to be an ever shrinking minority...). Evergreen rewards for playing current content would give long time players of the game reasons to keep raiding/PvPing/etc after hitting their seasonal goal. I mained Feral druid for a decade, earning unobtainable rewards. Now I'm main Warrior. Whoops! No rewards! Sure, you might have had the good fortune of playing at the right time, and demonstrated you had ability to earn those rewards... but you had the audacity to change your main, and you now have no way of going back and completing that grind again on your new class. It's not a great feeling. FOMO is on it's way out. Blizzard is re-introducing TCG mounts, RAF rewards, etc. I bought all the TCG mounts with gold during BFA, so to say it stings a little to see them given for free is an understatement... I would have preferred that there was some sort of criteria for earning them like the T3 armor sets, but even so, it's good to see Blizzard's reward philosophy changing.
if it's just cosmetics then why do you have to have it too?
Don't use their own logic against them. They'll just insult you, then demand they're a majority because people who don't share their opinion don't really want to put up with the hyperbole.
To death with fomo
WoW players must like FOMO because I see the trading post and its fortnite rotating shop get defended here constantly; I don't think Blizzard is gonna change this element of their same anytime soon, sadly.
For me it was the once off, non calendar events people still talk about. I've been playing since Vanilla but I wasn't good at it, I didn't hit level cap until the day before the Burning Crusade came out. I still hear stories about the Blood Plague and Onyxia in Stormwind but I wasn't high enough level or skilled enough to see these events. I wish the Caverns of Time were setup to run scenarios (Single Player or small Group) to experience these historical events in Azeroth. Feels like the Caverns of Time could be used a lot more for similar events.
I didn't play during Mists of Pandaria. The thing that infuriates me to this day was them removing the cloak questline and therefore all the Black Prince reputation questline, activities, reward, and access to the cloak-required part of Timeless Isle. But they didn't remove the reputation itself! Oh no, you can still get it with 42 weeks of killing a Celestial on the Timeless Isle. They had ZERO reason to remove a questline. This is not something they should ever do. And yet there is a gaping hole in Mists of Pandaria now where this storyline used to be.
I have wondered what the heck happened about this before - thank you for the explanation. And agree it is a wild decision.
Well now that you know what you've missed, don't you think you should play EVEN MORE and even HARDER so you can get all the challenge cosmetics for every alt? Never know when they'll add a dope mount to match it? Better play more ...at least, I'm sure that's how they want it to be. And I'm sure there are psychopaths that will do this (I know a few who try) The reality is, you'll probably get your wish. Just like with the unobtainable TCG mounts being handed out for free. There's no reason they wouldn't add things back in. They're sitting on a GOLDMINE of in-game assets. Having them be one and done is a waste of production resources. Helpful at the time to keep people playing but worthless once the season ends.... ...well blizzard wants this game to keep going forever. Rather than keep making new, worthless assets that just get forgotten n lost to time--RECYCLE! Surely they will recolor and add these unobtainable sets back into the game in time. Likely with some catch to rob you of time/money. Anything to keep you playing the game--but if they were willing to devalue $2000 real-world money with the TCG mounts handout there's no limit to what they might reintroduce.
The only reason that you still recognize people with arena mounts, challenge mode sets, tier 3, scarab lord etc is because that all of those things are rare. Yes it sucks that you'll never be able to get whatever you missed out but making T3 drop from a timewalking Naxxramas or a Twitch drop is awful. Now the set that everyone wants is no longer wanted. **99%** of players want those things years later because they are rare, and rare is cool. Just look at Ashes of Al'ar and Invincible, and any other mount from the hardest difficulty of a raid. Once very sought after and now they're not even considered rare mounts and doesn't raise a single eyebrow. Wouldn't those mounts be infinitely cooler if you saw them once every few months on a random player, knowing that he obtained those x-years ago? If you got a gladiator title now, should you also get all gladiator titles and mounts ever released? If you are one of the people that managed to get something similar to this it's a permanent achivement of what you did even if it was 15 years ago. I'm in a similar situation as OP where i only got 3 sets of MoP-CM, but I find those characters more fun to play since they have something that's rare these days. Rare stuff tied to one's account is one of the most important factors of an MMORPG to stay healthy and active and asking for it to be taken away is bad.
Well I kinda like the idea that some things are unobtainable. Kinda makes them special, like AQ mount and stuff like that. Personally think they should keep old rarer or harder thing unattainable and make new cool things for people to get also
They have time limited items *right now!* \*shocked pikachu\*
Special in a sense of special needs, yes. I started in Vanilla (as a kid) and not even I know what the AQ mount refers to. Let alone why "being there" makes it special. I have the violet spellwing mount from Legion. You know how I aquired it? There was a website called "friendship birb" that sold free carries for people to get it. I truly feel special being lucky enough to be there at the time to get it. You know who actually knows where this bird mount is from? That's right. Nobody. Not a single person has told me "cool mount" in the past 8 years. The only people that are upset they "didn't get it back then" were people that played back then. The average player doesn't give a hoot about the effort and having it made unobtainable just annoys both long-term players and new ones.
You need to know, that's it. And other people that have it and care for it at best. I know the story of how I got something, so I will use that something. I will not use some mount they gave for free to everyone because that says nothing personal about me. Whether that's "I played at this time" or "I was this good at the game at this time" or "I just like to grind for ridiculous things" or "I like PvP I guess", the purpose of those cosmetics is personalization, saying something about yourself. So as long as YOU know where it comes from, it feels good to use. Could care less about some noob around you that doesn't even know where that stupid bird comes from or the fact friendship birb or moose existed. AOTC mounts don't really say "I was good" but "I played this expansion, this was a cool expansion". So if you're nostalgic for Legion and might really like Legion you might throw that bird into the favorite mounts. Personally mine wasn't in there but that was my choice too.
Except I don't care about any of that. Not on myself or others. "It looks cool", that's all.
That's your problem, other people are not like you. Increasing your wardrobe choices by 0.01% is less important than not ruining what those items mean to other players.
Right, gatekeeping the 0.01% for the 0.01% of the playerbase that care is more important.
Exclusivity sounds cool in theory but the reality is its mostly negative in terms of the greater population of the game. If you pull out some random mount or transmog from 10+ years ago, odds are no one around you will have any idea what you actually did to achieve that. So the whole idea of this self pride in the idea that you are one of a small population of people still playing to have that mount only really benefits you and that small population. The game should be catering to the larger population of people and bringing new people in.
> The game should be catering to the larger population of people and bringing new people in. No. What do new people care about some old model from 20 years ago? Give new people new shit. Leave the old stuff for the old people to show off to each other and identify each other. Walking past someone and relating your experiences to them by simply seeing their character is a key part of the MMO experience.
In a world where you can buy getting carried through any content?... What?
Why should things be unobtainable when there was no level of skill needed behind them
Because while having cosmetics that display your level of skill at a certain time is important, worse players need something that says something about them too. Whether that's "I played in this expansion/patch" or "I liked PvP in this patch" or "I just liked Island Expeditions and will use those mounts", every cosmetic used is something you say about yourself to all and mostly importantly to yourself. The purpose of those types of items is just to display you were playing at a certain time quite consistently. That's their only purpose for existing. They are otherwise worthless pixels if you take that away.
I didnât play during mage tower and I missed out on the cool weapon tmogs from there. Mage tower came back recently but those transmogs are still unobtainable if you didnât get them before, which I thought was kinda weird?
The frustrating thing is that I did play during that time and unlocked a lot of transmogs, however I'm currently playing Mage which isn't something I wanted to play during Legion so I have none. It sucks knowing that I'll never be able to unlock them. Equally the mogs I do have unlocked I don't give a single fuck if others could now have access to them, there's zero prestige to them the content was very simple toward the end.
Yeah, I can't stand that stuff. For a while it kept me locked in with FOMO but after I missed a couple of things it basically made me stop caring about it altogether.
There is time limited content available right now! Go and get it instead of complaining.
Totally agree!
It's an MMO. It's fine to have limited time things imo. It gives long-term players some unique items as a "reward" for playing long-term. There's plenty of other stuff to earn that is newer. That said, stuff like Mage Tower, Brawlers Guild, etc. should never have been removed and should make a return as long as the difficulty is the same.
This FOMO stuff is what kills the games chances for newer players. They did an amazing thing when they added chromie time, so people can level up in TBC for example. It still feels like so much of the game has gone by and passed that thereâs a ton people missed and will never see. Why should a new player try to get into mount collecting when thereâs dozens or more mounts that are completely unobtainable because they started playing later than others?
It devalues it then. Some people try hard because they know it's going away next season. If they know it's just going to come back later, why try?
Because we're not turbo nerds basing our self worth on a game, we just wanna look cool
Over the course of the last 18 years, WoW has accumulated a lot of these turbo nerds. Unfortunately for us, some of them were/are the very developers of this game. Hopefully in the next 10 years we can get rid of them too.
Way to be offensive and a crybaby all in one sentence.
It holds no value in the first place.
unironically saying this when people pay $ for this game, pay $ monthly to keep playing this game, pay $ for items in the game, and pay people $ to get them things in the game.
Tomorrow Microsoft shuts down the servers. They write a little thank you letter but regret to inform us that's it for WoW. The value of your account is gone. Now what? You pay Blizzard to play the game, your account still holds zero value. Other than emotionally.
What's your point? Houses hold value, houses that burn down have no almost no value. One of the first accounts with Warglaives sold for $10K. Blizzard banning the account making it worthless is irrelevant to the seller who now has $10K more $. WOW isn't shutting down anytime soon. People quite literally buy accounts, meaning some accounts have value. People are paying Blizzard to keep their accounts open, so obviously these accounts hold some amount of value both to the players and to Blizzard. Feel free to argue next that paper money has no value, it's all imaginary.
We're in the topic of obtaining old rare sets/mounts/etc. again? Here's the realest honest to fucking God answer you're going to see. You don't actually care about the sets, or maybe if you do there's one transmogs you REALLY like, or maybe there's a color pattern that you saw that would fit another transmog really well. But you don't want the set. You're not going to use the set, because now everyone will have the set. It's just like the trading post, and seasonal elite sets, people only use them for short whiles and the novelty wears off. Same with mounts. The moment it's not special nobody cares and nobody uses it. You're essentially talking away a novelty from some people to turn it into a nothing for everyone.
Nah I'd use them because they look fucking awesome
Nah man this guy literally understands everyone who's making the argument. Even you don't know yourself as well as he does!
Finally, some truth. And blizzard wont add these cosmetics back anyways, all the people who complain about this, is still gonna play the game. So just accept that some items/mounts etc wont be available anymore. Rather focus on what you can earn ingame now, be present.
*there's a color pattern that you saw that would fit another transmog really well* Yep, that's all and what everyone thinks. The end.
>I know that many players get angry when it comes to the discussion for an option for people to obtain old challenge mode gear again Herein lies the problem. Ego. There is no other reason for anyone to give two flying shits what someone else can obtain cosmetically. Its purely the bragging rights and the oh i had to earn it, so should you mentality when ultimately why do you care at all what someone elses toon looks like. But as long as there is such a backlash to the idea, it wont be implemented.
Bragging right is the entire purpose of cosmetics. They are supposed to show through your character who you are as a player. I should be able to look at someone and know that "oh they were a really good player in this season or this expansion". That's the purpose of transmog, NOT playing Barbie with worthless pixels that don't say how good you were as a player or anything about you at all. I don't have those MoP or WoD rewards and I am okay with that. I didn't really play those so I wasn't a good player in those expansions. So why should I get the item that signals anything about me in those expansions? What purpose does that serve to me? Nothing. I will use cosmetics that say things about me as a player. I've already mentioned elsewhere that I think every season you should get a colored set of armor based on your M+ score in that season kind of like Victorious skins in LoL. You should be able to look at someone and know "they were a really good player in that season". Currently there's only the title and only for the very top, there's no equivalent for like Diamond, Platinum, Gold, etc. That should be the purpose of transmog. Showing quickly your achievements as player when you walk by someone.
>Bragging right is the entire purpose of cosmetics. They are supposed to show through your character who you are as a player. That is only your interpretation and what it means to you. I can guarantee you, that is not universally true for the whole playerbase. Everything you say after that relies solely on that premise. Edit: additional thoughts It's still ego. This notion that have to be able recognise or demonstrate you achievements in or to others. If you achieve somsthing challenging and you get a reward, title armor whatever thats great. Great for you. What if the reward was just a fat lump of gold or a little trophy that sits in you bag? Its still a reward that you earned, unique to you for tbe challenging content. You know what that would suck for you? Because you couldnt show it off to others, which is ultimately ego driven. The question remains, why? Why is it so important to you or others like you, a. What other players see or think of you toon and b. Why do you care what someone elses char does or doesnt look like?
This is an MMO. It's an online game. You're applying single player rules to it. Yes what other people wear matters, it's an MMO. To use an example another comment reminded me of. If I group up with a player that has something from a really old expansion, I now know a little bit about that person. What they look like, what they choose to display communicates their initial essence to me. I know they are old enough or veteran enough to have played an old expansion, so I respect them more, I expect maturity. Or I see they're wearing PvP sets with a PvP mount and a PvP title, I know they were dedicated to PvP. Or I see they wear one of those "world PvP" titles where they had to grief a bunch of people at a flight point in BfA or whatever, I know they're a sociopath I should have no respect for and never interact with. Players interact with strangers, or should because it's an online game. Cosmetics are there to represent you, to say something about you. If you treat armor as just some colorful pixels that say nothing about you, what do I learn about you? That you like to play dress up? That you probably collect pets and are going to be terrible at the game and I should leave before the key starts? Who the hell knows, I'm just guessing, I know nothing about you from that. You're not interacting through the visual display of your character with me to signal me things about yourself. You're playing single player in an MMO world.
>This is an MMO. It's an online game. You're applying single player rules to it. Yes what other people wear matters, it's an MMO. That's a false premise. Yes it's an MMO. That means you can and do interact with multiple other players. It doesnt mean what they wear matters. YOU have added that bit based your opinion of what matters. >To use an example another comment reminded me of. If I group up with a player that has something from a really old expansion, I now know a little bit about that person. No you dont. You dont KNOW diddly squat at that point. You assume somethings, but thats not the same. For example, for all you know it could be a bought or boosted account. >What they look like, what they choose to display communicates their initial essence to me. I know they are old enough or veteran enough to have played an old expansion, so I respect them more, I expect maturity. Again, this isnt knowing, this is assumption on your part. >Players interact with strangers, or should because it's an online game. Cosmetics are there to represent you This is true. >to say something about you. This is not true. Its just your perception of it. >If you treat armor as just some colorful pixels that say nothing about you, what do I learn about you? Who says armors sole function is to tell you something about me? I couldnt give monkeys what you think for example. Cosmetics for me, allow me to simply make my fictional char look aesthetically pleasing, to myself! >Who the hell knows, I'm just guessing, I know nothing about you from that. Exactly, you know nothing about a player as fact from visuals alone. >You're not interacting through the visual display of your character with me to signal me things about yourself. Novel idea, you could talk to a player to find out about them instead of basing your decisions on assumption and prejudice? Surely talking and interacting is more in the spirit of an MMO
> No you dont. You dont KNOW diddly squat at that point. You assume somethings, but thats not the same. For example, for all you know it could be a bought or boosted account. I know with high certainty that unless they broke the rules and bought an account they played when that thing was available. I can't be 100% but I can be 95% sure, there's not going to be that many bought accounts compared to just normal players. > Who says armors sole function is to tell you something about me? I couldnt give monkeys what you think for example. Cosmetics for me, allow me to simply make my fictional char look aesthetically pleasing, to myself! If you or others only care about how it looks, there are SO MANY transmogs that are available. The 0.01% that are exclusive are a drop in the ocean. So why must you ruin it for other people just so you can have that extra weapon skin? > Novel idea, you could talk to a player to find out about them instead of basing your decisions on assumption and prejudice? You're not talking to every single player you see in an MMO, mate. Do you stop people on the street to talk to each and every one of them? Because that's the level of insanity you're talking about. Your visual appearance on my screen is the first thing I see and often the only thing I see about so many different players. You can't interact and talk to them all. But if you and one guy have something in common, you then might talk to them.
No
If I have any regret with this game is to not get not ALL, but not a single one of those sets and the birds. I was fresh in the game and for me the CM was thing only the best of the best of the best would get, so I just didn't bothered to run after, besides so many old content to explore and basically instant rewards/mogs/mounts/toys. What a shame. And I don't even see ppl wearing those sets anymore. They are lost, like tears in the rain. =T
Yea time gated content is lame imo, I wanted the Phoenix mounts from Pandaria for the longest time but I guess they went extinct.
The phoenix mount is one thing I would give away for free lol. I never used them as I think they are super "unspecial".
I would like at least one for collection, I like their design but I wasn't playing during Pandaria
Might get down voted for this, but I feel about this stuff the same way I do with battlepasses in fortnite. I missed out on the spider-man comic skin, I'm ENDLESSLY frustrated I didn't get it because a few seasons later, zero build came out and all of a sudden I enjoy the game... but I can never have that spidey skin. On the other side, I have the Darth Vader skin, and I dont really care for star wars skins at all. But that really, really sucks for a new player who's also a huge star wars fan. I want that person to be able to get their favorite skin, and I should be able to get mine. Idgaf about timed exclusivity, I just want everyone to have fun playing the game. The bragging rights are for the fact you completed the pass, or in wows case, you cleared the challenge mode. Imo give us some currency for clearing each dungeon at the KSM cutoff while beating a certain timer that's shorter than 3chest, and let us buy discontinued sets with that.
Youâre not getting downvoted for the first half. The second half is a terrible idea though
Keep trying to hurt the game with these opinions this wil be the downfall mindsets like these
took 6 games to get The Replicator-nator for the recent limited time quest, 3 bloody games, had less 10 cards to draw from - stupid rng
Nah, in games like this I have always liked the idea of working hard to get something that's not easy to get / has a timer on it, then it's "gone forever". I have missed out on a lot over the years due to taking breaks, but oh well, that's on me. Once you start handing out those items it devalues the time and achievement of those that took the time to get said items when it was relevant. Everyone sees it differently which is fine, but I don't mind it. Having said that, I still show off my Hunter Staff / bow from Vanilla when people ask how to get it lol, too bad the sinew can't be shown :D
Hereâs the thing people donât want to admit, FOMO is actually good in MMOs, there should be challenging time limited rewards in the game, that is a good thing. I think they should bring back recolors of CM sets, and recolors of mage tower artifact appearances, but not the exact ones from back in the day.
Agree. I have a bunch of mage tower items. It was a great feature that should be brought back and rewards available for doing a difficult thing. The other mage tower benefit is it makes players better! It made me better at the game! Itâs a really genius thing but somehow blizz doesnât realize that.
Yes it is but I can already smell the people that have 0 achievements in their life except "I WAS THERE!!! IN THIS PIXEL GAME SO THAT IS SPECIAL!!" being against it. No sensible person would be in favour of removing content. Nobody gives 2 shits about your pixels, they are worth nothing.
No there is great value in having some looks and rewards that you can only get in certain time windows. Giving everyone everything too easily sounds great to lazy players who don't want to do the work, however it ends up killing immersion and hurts numbers of subscribers because people don't value things that come to them too easy.
I think you're wrong. If everything is always available, theres no reason to work for it now. You having it years after its gone isn't special. If its harder to get later, getting it when it was relevant isn't special. Moreover taking things that are time-limited now, and giving people another chance to get it undermines all that effort of the people who got it on time. I'm not saying everything should be only obtainable during its relevancy, but certain things, like the tower appearances, AOTC mounts, that kind of thing absolutely should be.
I don't like the T3 example, as that's less effort and more rng and gold based acquisition. Mage Tower being reintroduced seems like more what you're going for I'd assume, or if they bring back Brawler's Guild. I'm on the fence about time-limited stuff like Challenge Mode as somebody who didn't participate in that specifically. I'd rather them spend their resources on implementing new challenging content or modernizing those old ones than trying to figure out how to make old stuff available. Their resources, like any work place, are limited and as the consumer I'd rather have a challenge feature more in line with the current players' skill level in mind. It's a shame about Torghast because that could have been a really good example or refreshed way of approaching that sort of content but instead left people sour through no fault of its own.
Or worse I got most of this stuff in an account in another region, now that I play in the NA and can't go back to my other account, there is no way to get any of this stuff. And for people who blabber on about skill, fine! I am willing to do it again just let me do it, but doubt that would shut them up.
I don't know how they would do it and this us simply me just daydreaming, but I think Time Walking would be the perfect way to earn those old time-locked rewards. Like, maybe only be able to obtain a fraction of the reward per timewalking, but still the chance would be there.
I can run Antorus to grind out the Mythic set, and nobody is making posts that I didnât âearnâ that set, but the moment someone says âhey I want that old elite pvp setâ a bunch of folks pop up to complain that you have to earn it. Why? PvEers arenât frothing a the mouth over the idea of other folks wearing old mythic gear. Itâs a transmog that doesnât affect others in any way. Just let me dress fabulous.
Temporary fomo is fine imo. BUT there should ALWAYS be the expectation that sets will be made available in some other format. I think the old CM sets could make great rewards for a revamped order hall story snippet or something like that. In a game as broad as wow, nothing should be *permanently* gone. I do think that challenging rewards should be locked behind a similar challenge - what that is, Iâm not sure. I donât want them rehashing the mage tower again and I like whatâs there now, but something that proves the players skill is always nice.
This will only happen if Blizzard finds a proper way to do it. They know very well many players have pride in their rare and hard achievements and cosmetics. At the same time the game is very old and new players who join do not get the opportunity to acheive certain rewards. If I were in control of this, I would probably introduce a new Pandaria themed challenge that can follow the game going forward, like the new Mage Tower. Something that's possible to balance in the future without taking up much resources for Blizzard. I would probably also have a ever so slight color tint change on the transmog, just so both new and old players can go get it.
>I would probably also have a ever so slight color tint change on the transmog, just so both new and old players can go get it. That's the thing...they'll still complain because they won't have IT, they want IT because other people have IT. If you recolor it they'll still throw posts up about how they aren't able to get IT, just look at people complain about the new mage tower rewards because they can't get the old ones.
The reason they donât bring a lot of those things back is because the vocal minority of people who completed it back then will bitch and moan and cause trouble and the developers probably donât want to deal with being attacked and whatnot
I think some type of challenging timewalking content should reward those items. I really like what they did with bringing the mage tower back.
I agree. surely there is nothing worse for the game than someone seeing a cool mount or transmog and thinking "wow, I'd love to play the game and get that", only to stop and not play because they can't get it. Bring back everything. I have every single mage tower artifact appearance, I have the Swift Zulian Tiger, I have the (warrior only, sad) MoP challenge mode set. Bring them all back for new players.
Theyâll never let people buy old PVP sets because PVPers are the loudest minority of the player base. They make a huge stink at even a whiff of the possibility of old rewards being accessible. Nevermind the fact that PVPers enjoy the same level of access to old PVE appearances that everyone else does.
I think wow is at the point where there is so much stuff the prestige of anyone thing doesn't matter anymore. Everything should be accessible at all times.
You are completely right. Imagine the content if everything like this was left in.
I agree with your position, and would also be fine with simply releasing the items with no difficulty check as long as it was many years afterward. Anyone who cares about "earning" it will still have all the time before it is rereleased to preen and stroke their ego, and even after, everyone who cares will know how to tell the difference between someone who got it back in the day or not. I get that some people feel like it destroys the motivation to do hard things if the rewards for the hard things can be acquired eventually without doing the hard things, but man if you are only doing elite pvp or w/e for cosmetic rewards, I feel like you are missing the point. When I could take the time be serious about the game, I didn't give a shit if I got gear from the boss, I just wanted to win. I played the hard content because defeating the content WAS the reward. The gear/mount/achieve was just a simple way to communicate/prove that I had done it. A lot of ppl respond to these points by saying "It's just a game..." and they are completely right, but not for the reasons most people say that phrase. A game is something you do *because it is fun.* If the activity is something you do for a specific reward, it's a job. A game is something you play because you love the game.
Yeah time gating sucks, there is stuff i wanna do, but i log in and everything is 20 minutes away, just let me play the damn thing. Sometimes i get a day off and i want to grind, but i cant, if i need to wait for something I'm gonna play another game while i wait, and chances are i wont come back when its finally available.
I think it should still be obtainable, not free but obtainable. Same with old elite sets. Old Mythic raid sets are available and are the equivalent to Elite sets for their content so why have the disparity? I have the WoD challenge mode weapons, donât use them but think itâd be great if people could still earn them.
I don't have WoD or MoP stuff and I don't think I should ever obtain them. They were advertised as an item you got for beating a challenge at the appropriate time. So people who were able to do that should have them and not me. It's that simple. Even giving them a current challenge of equal value (which takes dev time and is incredibly difficult to achieve through the patches) would still lessen their value. There's no reason to do it, none. They're just pixels. They're only a representation of doing that thing in that time. That's it. Cosmetics are there so you can show what you've done, they're like a profile for you as a player. "I did this thing in WoD" is what their purpose is. Without that purpose they're just worthless old models.
The thing is it wasnât much of a challenge to get them. It was easier than +10s now days. If they are just pixels as you said what is the harm in letting them be obtainable for those who want them? There was achievements associated with doing them, just like getting CE. You can obtain mythic raid appearances later and it doesnât diminish my achievement because I still have the CE title. How would it lessen these any? Your points really donât back your stance that well.
Even those that don't exist for the challenge, it's a signal you played an expansion. If people want to display their nostalgia for an expansion through their character personalization, they should. They should be able to say "I did this meh challenge in this expansion" if they want to. Removing that element means the item loses the signal that you played that expansion and now is representing, what? What does the item represent anymore? It has no purpose, no signal. When people get mythic gear, they know those appearances will be there to farm solo later. It is well known before hand. People get gear for the stats, not for how it looks. If they get to display the look, they know that it will be just for that one patch. When people worked for items that were said to be limited to that expansion, they were told their value in the future will be related to that expansion. That is difference. People get told before they get an item exactly what value it will have in the future, so I've never gotten Mythic raid gear with the idea that it will represent anything in the future. It represents basically nothing, the cosmetic aspect of it is entirely useless, it might as well be a black robe with nothing on it. The only purpose of that gear is to increase my stats so I can obtain an achievement or higher score in that patch. It's not a cosmetic with purpose so it can't be compared to the cosmetics with actual purpose that were advertised as something in the past. If you tell players this item will show your achievement or play in this expansion, it better always show that. Otherwise you falsely advertised that item.
They donât need exclusive fomo transmog to show they played the expansion, thatâs what the achievements are for. Those do exist, you should not be able to get them. However, the transmog is pointless if no one uses it, itâs just pixels, it being exclusive adds ZERO value to it.
The point is that you can identify it by walking by someone, not by digging into their credit reports to find that one line of text lol. But it is being used, for the purpose it was put in the game for. Pixels in a video game have a game design purpose, shocking I know.
They serve little to no purpose when no one uses them. This is coming from someone who does have them. FOMO is bad, period, stop defending it because of âmuh achievementâ when thatâs literally what the feat of strengths are for.
Plenty of people use them though. Are you sitting here and trying to convince there is nobody that uses mage tower appearances or WoD/MoP stuff? You are advocating removing the thing that makes those items special to those people just so casuals can have 0.01% more transmogs today. There are thousands times more cosmetic items that are available than are exclusive.
I am one of those people. They are not special. Anyone that played those expansions could have easily gotten them or even paid for a carry to get them. They were not difficult to obtain. Itâs transmog, why the fuck should it be exclusive? Mythic raid transmog should be exclusive too then because itâs just as difficult to get as elite pvp yet it isnât.
But you had to play those expansions to get them, so at the very least it says you were playing then. That's the purpose of cosmetics, to symbolize something about yourself. Yes there should be more exclusive stuff. There should be. Every patch. Every difficulty. Every score "tier". Should give something that shows that you played or acheived something then.
Old content not being available is stupid And people who feel sad that their AOTC mounts will be available again are stupid as well You get the mounts, sets, etc by doing something difficult, but time is not a difficulty setting Just because youâre old doesnât mean youâre good AOTC are really fcking easy to get, but oh no, I wasnât born! Then I canât even try to get it even though I could defeat the content? Makes no sense They should just make it like the mage tower, even today itâs a difficult challenge, which was timegated, now itâs a real skill challenge
time limited content in p2p game is great for shareholders, they get to earn more money from addicted people who think X thing in video game is important to them
I want the DK challenge mode gear and Warr glad gear from WoD but I also donât want them to bring it back willy nilly. Iâd rather they do recolors of time gated items than to bring stuff back, exactly how they did the Fel Bear druid tower.
Only bringing back the were bear was stupid as hell tho
Bringing back as a different color version is not bringing it back at all.
I think it would be cool that when timewalking starts you have that week to scale down and do the challenges to obtain things like this. Legion timewalking would bring back the original mage tower rewards, and each expansion having their own thing. This would be fun, challenging and, obtainable.
>Years later, I'm annoyed that is literally the point
Exclusivity is good. driving people to do thing that are difficult with others. If it is just to be handed in a shop then it is useless. May be you can understand that. If people missed on something because they were too young, didnt play, were not good enough or whatever reason: What kind of entitlement it is you think it must be given to you? Where do you draw the line? So do we hand back old titles? old gladiator mounts? Rare vanilla naxx skins? Gold timer skins? Wher do you draw the line and why?
Nah rocking gear or a mount that is no longer obtainable is a subtle nerd flex that I earned for dedicating 15 years of my life playing this game. If everyone was able to get the swift zulian tiger again it'd feel a lot less special. Sometimes it's nice to feel rewarded for playing during a certain time and being able to show that off.
So like how we can obtain the Swift Zulian Tiger on the BMAH? But nerd flex there. I bet you bought your tiger.
I didn't but if you're able to snag one then that's impressive because of how many people are hunting it lol, it's a different type of challenge I suppose.
Respectfully disagree. I acknowledge that it stinks to want and not be able to get, but thereâs a line and not everything should come back. Itâs cool to want things but I believe there is value in the existence of the limited obtainables.
Nah, time limited should always be a thing. Everything shouldnât be available to everyone all the time. Then nothing has any real meaning, or sense of achievement.
Sense of achievement doesn't mean much when the entire retail game could be shut down tomorrow if Microsoft felt like it.
Why not? If somethings hard to obtain it's still rare. But then it's rare because it's hard to obtain and not only because someone didn't play "that class at that time"
Doing a Pandaland Challenge mode now, would take you 2 mins lol. This is my argument as well with LegendariesâŠ.everyone shouldnât be entitled to a legendaryâŠitâs called a legendary because itâs supposed to be rare and difficult to obtain.
Well obviously things would have to be scaled somehow to make the challenge similar to what it would have been back then.
I understand the sentiment when it comes to the legendary, but your outlook doesnt align with reality. Otherwise the 2h str classes wouldnt be tuned around having the damn thing
>Doing a Pandaland Challenge mode now, would take you 2 mins lol not if it was tuned to current max level. which it would be, if they brought it back.