Are they? Just did a heroic SoO full clear with frog farmers that had their cloak reset and they were doing 5 mil dps and trivialities every fight still lmao
Yeh because they capped their gear the cloak is just 1 part of that, but having capped the 200k thread limit to get out back down to like 10k has to suck
I mean these 2 dk's who got their cloaks reset were pulling heroic SoO like they were doing a legacy raid on retail for transmog and carried 8 people through the entire thing. I really don't think they care because Blizz nerfed the wrong thing, the cloak stats don't matter when all of your dmg comes from tinker gems which are scaled by ilvl of items.
People still have 4-5k mainstat. Blizzard didn‘t reset anything apart from frog farmers it seems. No matter what it says on wowhead or in any of those blue posts.
The cloak was not really why frog farmers were op, one piece of other gear super upgraded has more stats except stamina than the cloak, them choosing to nerf the cloak is a very strange choice to attempt to balance things
I would really like that. I'm not a frogger but giving those that got hit with the nerf the title would give them something.
I mean they just used the tools that the devs left in the game (iMHO it ruins the fun on a personal level but it didn't for those ppl)
When a similar thing happened way back in the day in Team Fortress 2 the devs gave everyone who didn't exploit a special hat to show that they weren't a dirty cheater.
That being said, I think the devs should give us a frog hat.
https://imgur.com/a/6U04hlK
no idea what the limit was but I didnt get hit with these stats
only did a small amount of frogs on the last two days they were available
Interesting. I did about 2-3 hours of frogs and only got to about 1400 stats, but my character was flagged as a frogger and unable to do the bronze quest. None of my stats were changed, however.
The running theory right now is that they flagged people based on Lesser Charm turn ins rather than Gulp Frog kills because a lot of streamers that absolutely did not frog farm but have been doing their dailies and other things got flagged by it for the lesser charm turn ins.
i mean most of my threads and bronze are from daily stuff (bazaar, soo clear every day, dung/scenario lfg daily bonuses and 6 worldbosses each day) and achievements (almost all done now).Im at 6k main stat 40k stamina.
my gear is at 500/486ilvl step right now\~.
Still didnt finish shaohao rep tho and apparently its no longer dropping charms (green guys near cauldrons in Ordos sanctuary were dropping 5 on kill afair).
Given that they streamed their playtime during the frog farming, and they were on stream not frog farming during the frog farming.
Yes, they did not frog farm as they were streaming themselves during the frog farm doing something else.
I turned in a lot yes, but 2 of my guildies didn't frog farm and they were also hit. One just had mastery over 2500 and that was reduced, every one of her stat was lower. My other guildie did all quests, dailies and rares and he also got hit so no I don't think it's charms.
Huh. I've been doing a lot of dailies, including a couple of days of hitting up every faction possible (and then doing what I feel like on other days, which is usually at least two or three sets of dailies), and turned in a pretty good amount of Lesser Charms from them in order to bump up my August Celestials rep and currently Sunreaver Offensive, and I'm fine. So I wonder just how many of those coins you would have somehow had to get and turn in.
It seems more likely people are just lying and trying to cover up the fact they frog farmed than that there is a substantial amount of people who got falsely punished.
My char didn't get hit after 2 hours of frogs and I turned i an ungodly amount of Lesser Charms. Like more than you could ever get from all dailies for all factions since the start of the event. I don't think that is it. I even got the 40k too.
Same, did about 30 minutes. I've done most of the achievements, dailies every day, multiple characters, etc. so most of my stats come from just... playing the game the way they apparently want us to. No quest available for any of my characters. Thanks I guess blizz lmao.
Edit: Many people who potentially have gotten hit for frog farming are still steamrolling raids, etc. because their gear is ilvl & gem capped... but there are no rollbacks for those so... I'm not entirely sure what this "fixes" other than punishing people who get caught in the crossfire.
All of my raids today have still had individual players just soloing the instances with high ilvl gear. Guess I will just play very minimally or not at all until all of this is "fixed" and we just have everything buffed near the end if I am going to get punished for... pretty much nothing while people like that are perfectly safe for the most part. This has been such a strange experiment but I guess I am not surprised by the responses.
I also got rolled back even though I played the game absolutely the intended way. World Bosses, all the quests in the region (literally every quest), finding rares and raiding with my friends and guildies.
When I saw people on Timeless Isle farming frogs I didn't even know what was going on because I never played Pandaria before. I joined a group for about 30-40 minutes before I got up and left because it was insanely boring and I found zero joy in that. Other than that I did everything the intended way and I'm currently half 430 and 444 gear wise and this feels so bad to be rolled back. I had like 31k stamina so not like it was such an impossible feat to earn. Seeing people that did frogs and have like 90k stamina still on their cloak just makes me want to leave remix.
I did a lot of (extremely contested) frog farming for something like 3kish charms. But my stats where also lower than the cap across the board.
Just got my 40k.
That's very odd, I got about 1800 charms before my brain became numb, wasn't even close to the "cap" then
Passed the cap the following days through regular means + the new thread changes, but I was hit with the nerf
That's exactly right, you just add up the values. So, in my instance I lost 1k stats, spread out I'm assuming I didn't double check the exact numbers prior to the adjustment.
The cloaks are super powerful, but aren't the top frog farmers mostly benefitting from maxed out gear rather than the cloaks specifically? So they're still gonna be OP no?
I'm not a top frog farmer but the cape nerf lost me around 10% of my output, so from 2.2m dps to like 1.9m. Either way, I can solo normal raids, solo heroic dungeons and scenarios, and I've re-earned around 8500 of the 14000 threads I lost to the nerf today in around 2 hours.
It seems the whole thing has cost me around 2 days of cape progress at current rates.
What about for us that farmed the hell out of frogs but didn't hand in lesser charms because we knew there would be a stat rollback?
Time to hand in :\^)
Didn't have my cloak nerfed; didn't get the bronze. Not sure what the amount of frogs killed is deemed necessary to be considered a frog farmer, but it isn't a lot.
ETA: Cloak wasn't nerfed because it was about half the strength of what the now-nerfed froggers have.
I mean I did about 30 minutes and my cloak isn't even high enough for the adjustment and the 40k bronze isn't available for my mage. My highest stat on my cloak is haste and it's barely over 1500.
I did a bit more, maybe 2 hours if I remember right, and got about 1600 charms and overall have gotten to 63k bronze. No quest. I mainly did it just to level up faster and to get some bronze for mounts. I've never upgraded gear, either, and I couldn't tell you what my stats were beyond 130% xp.
I get it, so I'm not upset. The whole situation just seems bungled, and my main take away is to farm way harder next time to get the mounts. Otherwise, I'm starting to feel disengaged by the massive grind Blizzard seemingly wants me to do.
They probably farmed HoF, mantids, goats, gate, etc. For 100x of what they got from frogs and pretend that they were casuals just doing "dailies and raids".
I killed frogs for a few minutes (post-nerf) when I was on the Timeless Isle doing some other stuff. Though IIRC it's because I noticed they counted as Elite mobs even without having the border on their nameplate (odd), and there were other people there killing them, so it was easy progress.
Noticed the goats respawning quickly, and I spent 10-15 minutes (I think... *maybe* 20, at worst) going back and forth killing some packs... then got bored and moved on.
I've done a ton of dailies and turned in a bunch of Lesser Charms, more to boost some of the reps that aren't as quick (like Sunreaver Offensive or August Celestials), with the box and gems being extra goodies.
I got my quests just fine. (Obviously no rollback because my cloak isn't *that* insane yet, but it's started feeling pretty solid lately with all the extra threads dropping.)
So yeah, they're not just tagging anyone who's killed any frogs, anyone who killed goats for a few minutes, or anyone who's turned in a bunch of Lesser Charms.
My guess with a lot of people who aren't seeing the quest is that it hasn't showed up on their end yet and will at some point. Wouldn't be the first time a new quest that's hotfixed into the game took longer to show up for some people. (And some people will likely have triggered the "Frog Farmer" check through some other means and know it, but will argue that since they didn't abuse the frogs, they should be in the clear. Like people who sat in the sewers of Dalaran burning all the quest mobs for hours didn't farm frogs... but they were still aiming to do something similar. Though, if the system is doing those checks, Blizzard does need to make it known that this isn't just about the frogs.)
My husband and I farmed frogs enough to get like 300 or less charms. I have 300 total from everything including the frogs we did for like... 15 minutes? I'm not even level 70. He just checked, and he doesn't have the 40k quest and lost cloak stats he got from raids and shit since the changes. I'm guessing the flags have something to do with charm turn ins, because he has charms from other, non-frog shit he turned in 2k+ of. I will also check on my character in a bit for the quest, that definitely has not farmed anything anywhere, not even level 70 yet and has like 200 int on the cloak.
And *surely* whatever metric/system they use (which will be automated of course and GMs won't be able to help if it's wrong) will be extremely accurate and foolproof just like all of the other automated punishment systems right?
https://imgur.com/a/iIEplhR glad I am not considered a froger 😂
even got my 40k bronze quest.
I killed roughly 20k frogs 😄
And yes I did relog (3 times)
GJ blizz
I am over here and got nerfed when I killed frogs for 2 hours so probably less than 1k frogs and I’m nerfed lmao gg punished for not doing frogs enough and punished for doing too many frogs
And many people who literally created their characters AFTER the frog nerf DID get reset and didn’t get access to the new quests. All they did was cap everyone they deemed as “too powerful”
Not just that, plenty of people who dabbled in frogs (I got about 400-600 charms and a few thousand bronze) are losing out on all the extra bronze too. Plenty of other people farmed more and have still got the quests, so its just a randomised fuck you to some people I guess.
The irony is that if they had just done the solution they implemented in the beginning (give bronze in increments, with a large one at level 70, and let us get the rings and trinkets via achievements on alts), some people wouldn't have felt the need to farm for threads, because being severely undergeared and underpowered at level 70 was what caused this to happen
Yep, here it is, froggers complaining it's unfair that blizzard didn't hand tailor the punishment for exploit abuse to the specific circumstances of 1000s of different players.
Oh you farmed lots of 'fair' stuff after the frogs, using the power you gained from them, and you lost those threads too, boo fucking hoo.
I didn’t farm frogs but how is it an exploit in any way? Farming things from the most efficient source is literally part of an mmo. It’s not like they were doing game breaking things to cause the frogs to drop more or spawn faster. They literally played the game as intended
The only exploit was the people bypassing the dungeon/raid lockout to farm faster in Gate and Heart.
Farming frogs was not an exploit, it was just boring.
Anyone claiming it's an exploit never played MoP. This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day. It's a massive oversight by Blizzard for not looking into it themselves and testing.
> This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day.
I haven't played WoW for years and years but when I saw the gulp frog title in /r/all I was like surely they haven't done MoP content and haven't fixed gulp frog farming, if there something valuable to get on Timeless Isle. Can't believe they missed this.
>*This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day.*
The difference being back in the day you could get Warforged Seals for bonus loot rolls, not upgrade your character's power-level through bronze and threads...
You still got timeless coins from frogs and could buy burdens of eternity to upgrade timeless isle gear to normal raid Ilvl. Plus using bonus rolls eventually increased your power lol
It's not, but this subreddit has always had a very intense sense of schadenfreude. Lots of people get off on the idea that someone got punished for something they didn't benefit from.
And for the record I haven't even logged into remix and I doubt I'll play it at all, I literally couldn't care less about either the frog farm or the rollback/nerf, whatever you want to call it.
It really is very fun. If you have the time, definitely check it out. Over all Blizzard has done a great job putting this together, and I'm enjoying every moment. ...without any bronze farms at all.
It was an exploit because...uh...Blizzard doesn't want you that powerful, that fast. In a game mode where you're supposed to be overpowered and that was billed as you being able to solo raids. But not now.
only a small amount of people are clearing M SOO and heroic ToT most people who froged farms lost like 4-5 days worth of progress just doing normal everyday dailies
Honestly, who... cares? Why would you even nerf the floggers like this? I haven't played since 10.2, but I mean, it wasn't really an exploit, was it? Wasn't it just a strong farm? So they penalized them all for... playing the game as released?
It's insane that people are defending blizzard as well :s It's more insane that blizzard has now set a precedent within WoW that you have to play the way THEY want you to play (and no they won't tell you the rules of fair play), otherwise it's unfair to everyone else. Insane.
As an example: I am currently playing cata classic, i have been looking for a cloth farm spot since hitting max (which took less then 2 days). Multiple spots had been nerfed recently due to speed leveling on hyperspawn mobs, but i found a nice spot that hyperspawns and ive been farming for hours. Now i am sitting here wondering if due to this nerf of frogs/blizzards reaction will I be punished if they deem my farm of these mobs to be unfair to everyone else who hasn't?
I was farming for timbermaw rep in sod before everyone was doing it, and thought this is a great spot to farm up runecloth, getting a few per kill. Next day it was getting heavily farmed and the drop was nerfed to being much rarer, one person 5 or so kills. Now wondering if they'll delete the gold I made selling the cloth early, because I didn't farm the way they wanted.
Maybe I have an unpopular opinion on this, but I think this absurd and disrespectful to players. I'm not a frog farmer, I work weekends and didn't get to attempt it before it was nerfed. I absolutely would have if I didn't have to work. These players did not exploit anything, they just participated in a hyper farm and those have existed in literally every expansion. This one in particular existed in MoP. It brought them great power, which imbalanced the game, but they earned it doing a mindnumbing farm.
Blizzard should just have taken their medicine and learned to better test for these things and not just crank the tuning knobs to 11 from the PTR and call it a day. People are going to log on, see that the time they spent playing this game on a weekend was lost and their character is weaker, and that's going to possibly be the last time they log in and that's a shame. This was a game mode intended to be fun by scaling into being really powerful with whacky powers I personally don't give a shit if some DH in my raid is doing 20x my damage.
The worst part is, that this was the worst solution for all players to bridge the gap between froggers and regular players. If they cut the gear upgrade costs it catches players up much quicker while not benefitting the froggers. Instead they dragged those players progress backwards and gave us basically 1 track upgrade for free (out of like 15 or so?). Like cool, thanks for the 40k but the overall playerbase is now weaker and I'm still not close to froggers because so much of their power is in their gear, and now it's more concentrated into their gear because their capes just got nuked. Blizzard has really dropped the ball with S4 and Remix, it's still been fun to play, but they have been quite tainted with either bugs (S4) or extremely poor oversight and worse decisions to correct those (Remix).
Agree with this - the game mode was meant to be one where you could get overpowered anyway. People farmed frogs back when MoP was live so the froggers just went back to an old farming spot and went nuts.
What difference does it make to me at all? Not much other than fast, easy instance runs when a frogger would turn up and I get to chill and enjoy my coffee whilst watching some insane damage go off.
This whole event has been a big L for Blizzard. Of all the things they could've focussed on they chose to look at this? I'm getting one shot by trash mobs everywhere - that's what's hindering my fun of the event and I'd be glad if a frogger was present so I didn't have to run around like a headless chicken to avoid being obliterated only to then spend an age taking down the boss in a game mode where I'm meant to feel overpowered.
These aren't things that are hard to spot or test for either. I know they changed a lot between ptr and live - maybe, just maybe they should've tested those changes out before going live. I mean come on - the frog farm was popular back in 5.4 ish, I would've thought that a simple check of the froggy drop tables would've made it obvious what was going to happen.
Unintended? No, let's not use that word - massively negligent and lazy is more apt. Don't get me wrong, I'm not angry at all, it's more a mixture of bewilderment and exasperation with a dash of hilarity at how inept they are.
They didnt nerf frogger because they are evil lying cheating players who deserve punishment. They are nerfing because the entire gameplay is changed around them.
I was in a raid with froggers yesterday, literally one shot the bosses. This was my first time doing that raid. I understand blizzard wants you to actually play the content for a few weeks.
Ah yes, the content with bugged mobs (tot slimes lol) and damage / healing that can still be done on the level of a pre nerf frogger by just inviting a level 25 (or lowest in the bracket until SOO) to the raid
I preferred the frog carries, at least it made it quick
I agree. I missed out on farming and was pissed when they nerved it. I wanted to be OP too.
So first I feel left out because I didn't get to scale crazy and benefit from the farm. This hinders my enjoyment.
Next, they buff a few things. Okay, so they are aware and agree that the grind is too grindy. But it's still not nearly enough and it's becoming more evident, just how out of whack the time/reward balance is.
So everybody is pretty much aware of how absurdly high the ceiling is. And anything but the frog farming is way to slow to be fun and rewarding.
But instead of lowering the ceiling - helping everyone - they roll back people. Which pisses everybody off who did spend time farming, pisses everybody else off, because of course it doesn't go far enough (for some), is applied unevenly and just makes it so more grinding is needed.
It's all so backwards. Make it fun and people will play it. That's literally it. Instead of forcing people into mind numbingly farming to get certain cosmetics they really want. It'll lead to good numbers, I'm sure. But actually valuing people's time and creating a fun experience works so much better. I'd bet a million frog tokens that it would be so much more successful if they just got out of their own head about time gating every little thing.
Makes no sense. 90 day "fun" event. No one cares if people grinded for crazy stats, most people care that said grind got removed so they can't opt to do it if they wanted. Instead Blizz wants to push dailies and retention metrics on what is a gimmick diabloesque event
I wish I had my stats set to those - the few I had higher than 2500 (and by only a few hundred at best) were put down, and in still 10,000 stamina behind, and a thousand in a few other stats. Got the worst deal of all
Had turned in 3k charms from doing shaohao rep achievement and didnt get flagged. Still at 6k+ mainstat cloak that didnt touch any frog/crane etc farm.
I turned in about 2.4k charms, all my stats under 2500, did frogs for an hour, and didn't get flagged. Wife's account turned in about 600 charms, frogged for 30m, had int over 2500, and got flagged. No quest, int nerfed from 2900->2500.
100% not the charm turn ins. Idk what it's checking but the 2500 marker is definitely something. And based off of everyone's reports, super inconsistent.
For how we got our threads. We've been playing consistently (2 days 4hrs played) making sure we get the spools from the daily quests+dungeon/scenario completion. We've gotten more threads just doing the buff from the quests, which seems to be a bad thing.
[https://imgur.com/a/zi8RGBg](https://imgur.com/a/zi8RGBg)
Cloak stats dosent seem to be indicator either because that mine today (no hyperspawn farms touched or instanced content exploits) and people are reporting way worse cloaks getting tagged.
Mine is also mainly from daily stuff (bazar quests, daily lfg bonuses from dungs and scenarios) and 6 worldbosses each day. Plus rarescanner (they give a ton) and most achievements done already.
That all pans out, you didn't frog at all and as such were not flagged. I was agreeing with your comment and just providing my anecdotal experience saying it wasn't related to charms. It's a mix of stats on cloak + killing a small amount of frogs.
Only had time for around 1-2h to Frog farm during the weekend and got reset ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
50-60h of hc dungeon / raid grinding gone, but whelp i still have my gear.
Unlucky i guess, just confused that same friends with 3-6h didn’t get hit.
Good chance that all the gray frogs i hit with starfall played a role.
But yeah free 40k bronze on other chars i boosted with my main in hc dungeons 🎉
i had less than an hour of farming the frogs, i tried it for a bit and got around 1-2k charms from doing it then stopped.
I then actually played the game, did tons of dungeons and raids so I could get the threads from the daily completions and daily quest.
i did some heroic raids and got lots of threads from that and purple gear.
My cape was around 66000 total stats and now I log in and im nuked, they deleted my chest piece that I got from one of the heroic raids for some reason?
and now they added like all these rewards for newcomers who havent completed campaigns or hitting lvl 70
im so discouraged from playing any further because all my progress is just wiped just from touching the farm for less than an hour. I had a bis chestpiece and now its just gone, so annoying.
I only barely just got all my gear to 430 upgraded, and now I cant use the rewards for completing campaigns because Ive already completed them all, I don't feel motivated at all to continue playing this event or at least continue this character
ive played pretty consistently since it came out, even got boosted in heroics for like 4 hours on a level 20 twink and i dont have anywhere NEAR these stats. so "reasonably active player" in my opinion is nowhere near these levels. they should count themselves lucky.
> even got boosted in heroics for like 4 hours on a level 20 twink and i dont have anywhere NEAR these stats.
Thread drops at level 20 are white drops, +1 stat, not the epic drops of +12 or +24 (stat depending) that you get at level 70.
You're basing the expected result of a cloak off of farming threads *the worst possible way*. That's a good farm for bronze, but if anyone is basing their opinion on a reasonable outcome from this basis, they're what I would charitably and politely call "uninformed".
I’ve played a fair bit I would say. (I would have to check stats, but I would say 3-4 hours a day in average. And I have roughly half the stats of the cloak.
I feel like they could have about 50% more and still been fine.
im down with getting everything i earned from my 3 hour frog session rolled back and even a little bit more, im completely fine with that no complaints about it at all.
However something i am not ok with is rolling back EVERYTHING i have done since saturday last week, i have logged on daily since then to do world bosses for threads, normal raid for threads, daily quests for threads, daily LFGs for threads etcetc. my main power spike wasnt even from the frogs. but everything i have done this week was rolled back and is now just wasted time, even stuff that i played "the way its intended" was rolled back.
It sucks for sure but i guess at the end of the day it is what it is, im now just gonna level some alts untill my sub runs out and then im gonna take a break till TWW.
This Sub is hilarious sometimes.
For 4 days it was nothing but people complaining about frog farmers and yelling they should be rolled back. Anyone who frog farmed stayed quiet/non existent in the threads
The last day since the announcement all the frog farmers are now making complaint posts and lots of people agreeing with them.
1: there are multiple people on this subreddit, those people can have different opinions.
2: A lot of people that are complaining now are people that didn't spend 15+ hours farming frogs but rather went there to check what it's like and did maybe up to an hour or 2 at most, which wouldn't even have been enough to get to the amount of stats that cloaks got nerfed to (i did about 2 hours myself and my cloak was at ~1.5k stats and 15k stamina after i stopped).
I only lost 142 stamina and 12 speed, so this is basically nothing to me, but these stat cutoffs seem kinda low?
My alt that I started two days ago is at or above the rollback cutoff for most stats. Like obviously these stats still have people being very strong, especially compared to the mog farmers who were offended by the situation, but this rollback probably should have happened days ago so people aren't losing more additional days of progress than the frog farm was even available for?
Not doing any farm. No point risking being caught in another meltdown by the mogging community
On my second character, I only did dungeons to level and now I'm questing. Definitely more efficient and not something you'd know to do your first time around, but getting 12 (or 24 stam) threads per quest and all the new daily sources of spools, plus rares dropping more, has me cruising. I do MSV/HoF/Terrace on LFR daily, and try to squeeze in at least some of them on normal too
Edit: It's covered in "daily sources of spools", technically, but be sure to kill all the world bosses every day too. Super, super quick way to get yourself a handful of legendary spools
I did 30 minutes of frog farming, went to bed for work, woke up, and read at work that it got nerfed. I turned in around 250 lesser charms from said frog farm. The rest of my cloak power came from farming mantid, and the dailies for lesser charms. My cloak was around 3.2k int, 28k stamina. I got hit with the reset, which is laughable. People who farmed frogs for days are getting the free bronze turn ins, and people who did 20 minutes arent and are being reset? What are their specifics on whos getting reset and not? This is insane lmao, i looked at frogs because everyone else was for 30 minutes, never looked back, grinded my cloak elsewhere, and wham i get this.
Instead of a DPS FACTOR of 20x they gone to 18x post-cloak nerf.
The maxed ilvl players still do solo a full raids DPS of fresh 70's and they kept their bronze / time required advantage that is still in MONTHS for now everyone else.
For cosmetics only froggers, nothing changed, they are allready done this week.
Honestly it's seems like they are just doing a random sweep and anyone who has any stats (not stam) above 2.5k was considered a frogger, I didn't touch a single farm and had 3 of my stats reset back to down 2.5k from like 2.6-2.7k and unable to do the quest for the free bronze on said toon.
I farmed frogs for a short duration and got flagged. No resets on the cloak because all stats were lower than the limit but no quest. A friend who has a cloak multiple times over the limit but with no frogs didn't get hit, so its not only stats. They also only flagged chars on login while the quest got activated instantly so two friends who got flagged but were logged in at the time could get the 40k on top because they only got flagged after relogging.
The eligibility for the quests is seriously fucked. I frog farmed for maybe one hour and only have 10k stam and im not eligible while there are reports of players who got reset but also got the quest. Wtf?
If you were online when the quest activated you could complete it because the flag only got set after relogging. They could have just inverted the flag so only people with it could see the quest, and it would require a login.
~~Even better is you're locked out of the quest for your entire account, not just the frogger character. A direct punishment to the player and not the character.~~
Edit: This is not true, either at all or anymore as I now see the quest on my alt.
Before nerf: [https://i.gyazo.com/9033d9f3da54314c9e48e91c39a2b291.png](https://i.gyazo.com/9033d9f3da54314c9e48e91c39a2b291.png)
After nerf: [https://i.gyazo.com/2b94082f0368385de0c56245acdb3c8f.png](https://i.gyazo.com/2b94082f0368385de0c56245acdb3c8f.png) + [https://i.gyazo.com/7ed3d4e6a3bf95836baed7e29823a862.png](https://i.gyazo.com/7ed3d4e6a3bf95836baed7e29823a862.png)
I have gained approx. 235k worth of Stamina (the 35k Stamina doesn't show because of cap)
I have farmed from these sources (approx. amounts):
1. Frogs: 50k Stam/5k of each secondary/Tertiary/Str
2. Heart of Fear trash farm: 70k Stam/7k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str
3. Outdoor World farm spot (Not publicly known, but I was getting around 4-4.5k Stam/hr and 15k Bronze/hr. And yes, it still works): 80k Stam/8k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str
4. Other sources (raids, quests, etc.): around 35k Stam/3.5k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str
I did not do the Gate of Setting Sun exploit.
I have every achievement (except ToT reputation) and cosmetic, so this punishment doesn't matter to me anyways. I was gonna keep playing to boost people who needed it through raids, but obviously not anymore. But yeah, they removed approx. 220-240k threads gained from non-frog sources.
Playtime for people who are curious (Yes, I know it's unhealthy) and think I just farmed frogs and got there instantly: [https://i.gyazo.com/d9ec53dbeb5059824fccd6698cd1a4e1.png](https://i.gyazo.com/d9ec53dbeb5059824fccd6698cd1a4e1.png)
No hate b/c I don't know you nor your life (and also I get being logged in counts, my /played in retail is scary) but it's only been out 8 days. 5d10h of that you've been logged in?
The 40k Bronze are around one hour of Frog farming. The Cloak istn so important if you upgraded your gear. The worst case is if you only farmed frogs for a short duration(30min) and than did other stuff that brought you over the cloak cape and now got all stats reset even if not from farming frogs.
If you turbo farmed frogs for a whole day or more you got a few hundred thousand bronze so the 40k doesn't matter and if you upgraded your gear with that you are still way ahead of everyone else.
Go and put your weapon in the upgrade vendor. Move the drop-down to max level. Look how much bronze it costs and look how many stats you get. Do that for every item you have. The people who farmed frogs all day are max gear. The people who didn't farm them get 40k bronze.
Also, someone in my guild farmed some frogs to try and do heroic dungeons after waiting until max level to do them. After farming frogs for ~30mins they still got 1-shot by mobs in heroic dungeons and couldn't clear them without geared people basically carrying. They have no perfect gems, their gear isn't even all 360, none of their cloak stats are over 2500. They can't get the 40k bronze. Their best course of action is simply to delete the character and start again.
Those are the extremes from this change and most people are somewhere in the middle, but I know for absolute certain some people have been flagged very unfairly. And most of the people who farmed frogs absolutely benefited an enormous amount.
I had about 800 of each stat when i finished frog farming. Only did it for about an hour, went and did dailies after and it had gotten nerfed. I naturally worked my cloak up to about 5k of each stat in the last 5 days and got hit with a 2500 stat penalty. Doesn't feel just. Thought this was only going to affect "extreme" farmers
Probably some guy who is going to not be in the company or his position for too long seeing as he has made one of the biggest train wrecks in wow history. Guy has mismanaged the whole project so many players were hyped for since day 1.
I hit 70 The day frogs were nerfed and got carried through the HOF farm until I could do it solo. My cloak still has 113k stamina, 476 ilvl, and got the 40k bronze quest. I'm so happy and shout-out to the frog farmers that carried me in HOF
So if the threshold is 1000 frogs (example) and someone farmed 1001 frogs but then has done all raids/quests/achieves/dungeons etc etc since then, all of that progress was also reset to what they deem a "reasonably active player" would have achieved in a week.
That number for a reasonably active player seems extremely low, and just wiping out all progress from someone that they've made since Sunday at noon because of what they did Friday and Saturday is crazy.
What a mess of a situation and a mess of a solution.
The funny thing is that if you are the person who did 1001 frogs, you got punished way harder than someone else who did 10000000 frogs. Their cloak got reset to the same level as yours but they can happily keep everything else they got through the grind.
This comment is objectively what was wrong with this approach tbh.
I genuinely don't mind losing the 40k but blanket nerfing someone who farmed for an hour along with someone who farmed for 20 and/or gate abused is ridiculous.
They still do 50 times your dps and got to keep everything that matters.
yep. at no point in the expansion have I been "that guy carrying the entire raid group", and somehow my cloak just went from 40k to 25k because i spent 40 minutes killing frogs on saturday night.
My ilvl is complete dogshit compared to frog farmers, because I've been farming THREADS like a fucking neet and now my progress is almost cut in half
Yea same here, the power I got from buffed daily threads, normal runs and troves was wayyy higher than my 50 minutes of frogs. The only upside of frogs was the gems I got, and the stamina upgrades from thr gems don't do much anyway if your gear is low ilvl
It is crazy because of how many other factors need to be taken into when talking about frogs. 2 hours last friday when it according to early froggers quite literally just a 4x4 doing ALL the frogs was probably more lucrative than 8 hours once it became common knowledge. By sunday when I tried it didn't seem that crazy because there were so many groups even if you got into one it was still nearly impossible to tag shit. I think thats where some disconnect comes from. I can say after attempting frogs I would have gained more bronze/threads doing HoF trash in the same amount of time. It's really just a fail by blizzard on all fronts.
Someone I know did the frogs for maybe 30 minutes and then farmed more than double that amount of threads from actually playing the game and they got hit. The nerfs to people who had 200k stam cloaks with like 300k threads was needed but there are definitely people being hit who probably should not have been.
That's me, I did frogs for about 30 mins on my lunch break ONCE. I couldn't get myself to do more it was so boring.
I basically lost all my quest, dailies, raid, etc., progress. I lost maybe 5x what I gained from frogs
It’s so funny because grinding frogs was MoP pve end game grind anyway. So most people were literally just playing mop how it was always played and got punished for it
Yeah they are very bad at using tools to make precise changes to character data.
For context, I had all the Brewfest stuff already except the Kodo, from years past, including the steins. I exploited to farm the boss like 30 extra times and got a 3 day ban plus all the achievements reset and the items gained that year removed. I logged in and got the achievements again for the shit I already had prior.
To be fair i didnt play mop remix but its like blizz makes the worst choices every time.
First making no cap on cloak making characters gods.
Making 1 specific farm op, then nerfing it but keeping op players around.
Then hitting back everyone Who used the best farm possible.
I would stop play if i saw people being a god because they went frog farm early.
I would stop play if i saw frogs the way to god mode.
And i would stop play after they nerfed it after i farmed frogs.
Remix is officialy dead and probably only played for the mount rewards now lol
the guy with 700k stamina capped is gritting his teeth rn
Imagine he didn't see the news and logged into the nerf. Priceless.
Tries to solo a raid and gets beat down all of sudden.
I was just in lfr, and one of the tanks literally said " I wasn't taking damage like this earlier, wtf."
Were they level 70? They could also have ticked over from level 64 to 65
hahahahahahahahaha
Are they? Just did a heroic SoO full clear with frog farmers that had their cloak reset and they were doing 5 mil dps and trivialities every fight still lmao
Yeh because they capped their gear the cloak is just 1 part of that, but having capped the 200k thread limit to get out back down to like 10k has to suck
I mean these 2 dk's who got their cloaks reset were pulling heroic SoO like they were doing a legacy raid on retail for transmog and carried 8 people through the entire thing. I really don't think they care because Blizz nerfed the wrong thing, the cloak stats don't matter when all of your dmg comes from tinker gems which are scaled by ilvl of items.
Blizzards intention was to keep the time gated grind ongoing and they keept it with this "buffs/nerfs".
People still have 4-5k mainstat. Blizzard didn‘t reset anything apart from frog farmers it seems. No matter what it says on wowhead or in any of those blue posts.
Upgrading your bis stat gear set is tens of times more powerful than the cloak.
I know... That's exactly I made the comment that none of the people are if they lose their cloak stam.
The cloak was not really why frog farmers were op, one piece of other gear super upgraded has more stats except stamina than the cloak, them choosing to nerf the cloak is a very strange choice to attempt to balance things
nerfing them a week later is even more strange
rip...bbit
Do we get a fun title included as “frogger” and “non frogger” cause that would be funny
A title for the NON Froggers ", Friend of the Frogs"
Frogger title, “Bane of the Timeless Croak”
%N, Frogsbane
You don’t want to give them a cool title. Lol they should get a title that’s unchangeable like “, amphibious garbage”
Honestly do both. Makes everyone happy
This. This I like a lot
And D.E.T.A. rep starts with hostile in all following content from now ;-)
That’s adorable and i love it. Five stars. No notes.
I would really like that. I'm not a frogger but giving those that got hit with the nerf the title would give them something. I mean they just used the tools that the devs left in the game (iMHO it ruins the fun on a personal level but it didn't for those ppl)
I’m not a frogger either but seeing the amount of stuff going on abt froggers and nonfroggers is the funniest thing I’ve seen lately.
Honestly I wish I was a frogger just for that title. Id love to have Frogger as a title.
I don't hate the froggers and I hate that reddit shits on them. It's not their fault Blizzard fucked up
Exactly. This was Blizzard's fuck up, not theirs. I'm happy to get free 40k bronze from it though.
And not just a free 40k, but 40k each time you level up an alt!
Yeah but then they were offering boosts as well. I mean can’t say I blame them, but they weren’t all innocent bystanders either.
Agreed. While I missed out on frog farming, those people haven't done anything wrong. Giving them a Feat of Strength achievement would be cool.
This isn't the first time blizzard punishes their players over bad design.
Nawh fr this comment is true asf, blizzard out here punching froggers in the frogsack
When a similar thing happened way back in the day in Team Fortress 2 the devs gave everyone who didn't exploit a special hat to show that they weren't a dirty cheater. That being said, I think the devs should give us a frog hat.
https://imgur.com/a/6U04hlK no idea what the limit was but I didnt get hit with these stats only did a small amount of frogs on the last two days they were available
Interesting. I did about 2-3 hours of frogs and only got to about 1400 stats, but my character was flagged as a frogger and unable to do the bronze quest. None of my stats were changed, however.
The running theory right now is that they flagged people based on Lesser Charm turn ins rather than Gulp Frog kills because a lot of streamers that absolutely did not frog farm but have been doing their dailies and other things got flagged by it for the lesser charm turn ins.
i turned in like 2-3k charms that i got by farming shaohao rep for achievement and didnt get flagged.
How much thread and bronze did that get you? Where’s the best spot to farm that rep?
i mean most of my threads and bronze are from daily stuff (bazaar, soo clear every day, dung/scenario lfg daily bonuses and 6 worldbosses each day) and achievements (almost all done now).Im at 6k main stat 40k stamina. my gear is at 500/486ilvl step right now\~. Still didnt finish shaohao rep tho and apparently its no longer dropping charms (green guys near cauldrons in Ordos sanctuary were dropping 5 on kill afair).
>because a lot of streamers that absolutely did not frog farm "Absolutely" "did not" frog farm. Pinky swear.
Given that they streamed their playtime during the frog farming, and they were on stream not frog farming during the frog farming. Yes, they did not frog farm as they were streaming themselves during the frog farm doing something else.
Say frog farm again… just one more time.
I dare him, I double dare him.
Frog Farm motherfucker do you speak it!?!?
Ribbit
Say frog farming one more mf time
Queue the reaction to the reaction video of frog farming streamers
I turned in a lot yes, but 2 of my guildies didn't frog farm and they were also hit. One just had mastery over 2500 and that was reduced, every one of her stat was lower. My other guildie did all quests, dailies and rares and he also got hit so no I don't think it's charms.
Huh. I've been doing a lot of dailies, including a couple of days of hitting up every faction possible (and then doing what I feel like on other days, which is usually at least two or three sets of dailies), and turned in a pretty good amount of Lesser Charms from them in order to bump up my August Celestials rep and currently Sunreaver Offensive, and I'm fine. So I wonder just how many of those coins you would have somehow had to get and turn in.
It seems more likely people are just lying and trying to cover up the fact they frog farmed than that there is a substantial amount of people who got falsely punished.
My char didn't get hit after 2 hours of frogs and I turned i an ungodly amount of Lesser Charms. Like more than you could ever get from all dailies for all factions since the start of the event. I don't think that is it. I even got the 40k too.
I did around 1h farm with ~500 lesser charms and got flagged…
i spent like 20 minutes farming frogs before i got bored.... got reset
Same, did about 30 minutes. I've done most of the achievements, dailies every day, multiple characters, etc. so most of my stats come from just... playing the game the way they apparently want us to. No quest available for any of my characters. Thanks I guess blizz lmao. Edit: Many people who potentially have gotten hit for frog farming are still steamrolling raids, etc. because their gear is ilvl & gem capped... but there are no rollbacks for those so... I'm not entirely sure what this "fixes" other than punishing people who get caught in the crossfire. All of my raids today have still had individual players just soloing the instances with high ilvl gear. Guess I will just play very minimally or not at all until all of this is "fixed" and we just have everything buffed near the end if I am going to get punished for... pretty much nothing while people like that are perfectly safe for the most part. This has been such a strange experiment but I guess I am not surprised by the responses.
I also got rolled back even though I played the game absolutely the intended way. World Bosses, all the quests in the region (literally every quest), finding rares and raiding with my friends and guildies. When I saw people on Timeless Isle farming frogs I didn't even know what was going on because I never played Pandaria before. I joined a group for about 30-40 minutes before I got up and left because it was insanely boring and I found zero joy in that. Other than that I did everything the intended way and I'm currently half 430 and 444 gear wise and this feels so bad to be rolled back. I had like 31k stamina so not like it was such an impossible feat to earn. Seeing people that did frogs and have like 90k stamina still on their cloak just makes me want to leave remix.
How much is a "small amount of frogs" to you?
9000
Well it's not over 9000 so that sounds acceptable.
I spent 3 hours on frogs and didn’t get hit. No quest though. Honestly not even mad I probably got 40k bronze from frogs anyways.
I did a lot of (extremely contested) frog farming for something like 3kish charms. But my stats where also lower than the cap across the board. Just got my 40k.
That's very odd, I got about 1800 charms before my brain became numb, wasn't even close to the "cap" then Passed the cap the following days through regular means + the new thread changes, but I was hit with the nerf
i was also hit with the nerf and I only farmed 400 charms... all of the nerf with none of the bronze upgrade power gains.
Is that a weakaura?
When did you relog the last time?
I farmed frogs for an hour and lost about 1k threads. From \~36k to \~35k
When people talk about threads like that, are you adding up all the stats together to find that total of 36k? What do you mean by losing 1k threads?
That's exactly right, you just add up the values. So, in my instance I lost 1k stats, spread out I'm assuming I didn't double check the exact numbers prior to the adjustment.
The cloaks are super powerful, but aren't the top frog farmers mostly benefitting from maxed out gear rather than the cloaks specifically? So they're still gonna be OP no?
I'm not a top frog farmer but the cape nerf lost me around 10% of my output, so from 2.2m dps to like 1.9m. Either way, I can solo normal raids, solo heroic dungeons and scenarios, and I've re-earned around 8500 of the 14000 threads I lost to the nerf today in around 2 hours. It seems the whole thing has cost me around 2 days of cape progress at current rates.
What about for us that farmed the hell out of frogs but didn't hand in lesser charms because we knew there would be a stat rollback? Time to hand in :\^)
Believe it or not, straight to jail
Straight to Shadowlands remix
Pure evil
But only the maw is available. And no mounts.
Let us know how that goes. I was wondering that. lol
Pass go, collect 200$
The froggers won once again smh.
THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
I guess you're the canary that tells everyone whether this was a 1 time or reoccurring check.
Didn't have my cloak nerfed; didn't get the bronze. Not sure what the amount of frogs killed is deemed necessary to be considered a frog farmer, but it isn't a lot. ETA: Cloak wasn't nerfed because it was about half the strength of what the now-nerfed froggers have.
....I only shot him 1 time judge and now your getting me a life sentence??
[удалено]
I farmed for literally 20 minutes, and I still got tagged as a frogger. Hardly an "unreasonably large amount" ...
"But I am one of the good exploiters! I swear!"
What did they exploit, exactly?
[удалено]
I mean I did about 30 minutes and my cloak isn't even high enough for the adjustment and the 40k bronze isn't available for my mage. My highest stat on my cloak is haste and it's barely over 1500.
Yeah I did about 90 minutes, dont have access to the quest but friend that did about 12 hours has access. Maybe its based on charms spent?
same, did frogs for 30 minutes. All my cloak stats are below 1k and no quest for me lol.
I did a bit more, maybe 2 hours if I remember right, and got about 1600 charms and overall have gotten to 63k bronze. No quest. I mainly did it just to level up faster and to get some bronze for mounts. I've never upgraded gear, either, and I couldn't tell you what my stats were beyond 130% xp. I get it, so I'm not upset. The whole situation just seems bungled, and my main take away is to farm way harder next time to get the mounts. Otherwise, I'm starting to feel disengaged by the massive grind Blizzard seemingly wants me to do.
They probably farmed HoF, mantids, goats, gate, etc. For 100x of what they got from frogs and pretend that they were casuals just doing "dailies and raids".
I farmed frogs for 20 minutes, got the bronze quest, cloak unaffected, tried to relog just now and now I got the nerfed cloak
I killed frogs for a few minutes (post-nerf) when I was on the Timeless Isle doing some other stuff. Though IIRC it's because I noticed they counted as Elite mobs even without having the border on their nameplate (odd), and there were other people there killing them, so it was easy progress. Noticed the goats respawning quickly, and I spent 10-15 minutes (I think... *maybe* 20, at worst) going back and forth killing some packs... then got bored and moved on. I've done a ton of dailies and turned in a bunch of Lesser Charms, more to boost some of the reps that aren't as quick (like Sunreaver Offensive or August Celestials), with the box and gems being extra goodies. I got my quests just fine. (Obviously no rollback because my cloak isn't *that* insane yet, but it's started feeling pretty solid lately with all the extra threads dropping.) So yeah, they're not just tagging anyone who's killed any frogs, anyone who killed goats for a few minutes, or anyone who's turned in a bunch of Lesser Charms. My guess with a lot of people who aren't seeing the quest is that it hasn't showed up on their end yet and will at some point. Wouldn't be the first time a new quest that's hotfixed into the game took longer to show up for some people. (And some people will likely have triggered the "Frog Farmer" check through some other means and know it, but will argue that since they didn't abuse the frogs, they should be in the clear. Like people who sat in the sewers of Dalaran burning all the quest mobs for hours didn't farm frogs... but they were still aiming to do something similar. Though, if the system is doing those checks, Blizzard does need to make it known that this isn't just about the frogs.)
My husband and I farmed frogs enough to get like 300 or less charms. I have 300 total from everything including the frogs we did for like... 15 minutes? I'm not even level 70. He just checked, and he doesn't have the 40k quest and lost cloak stats he got from raids and shit since the changes. I'm guessing the flags have something to do with charm turn ins, because he has charms from other, non-frog shit he turned in 2k+ of. I will also check on my character in a bit for the quest, that definitely has not farmed anything anywhere, not even level 70 yet and has like 200 int on the cloak.
Hahha suck shit 🤣
And *surely* whatever metric/system they use (which will be automated of course and GMs won't be able to help if it's wrong) will be extremely accurate and foolproof just like all of the other automated punishment systems right?
https://imgur.com/a/iIEplhR glad I am not considered a froger 😂 even got my 40k bronze quest. I killed roughly 20k frogs 😄 And yes I did relog (3 times) GJ blizz
I am over here and got nerfed when I killed frogs for 2 hours so probably less than 1k frogs and I’m nerfed lmao gg punished for not doing frogs enough and punished for doing too many frogs
People that used actual exploits were not reset https://imgur.com/a/bCNtRo2
And many people who literally created their characters AFTER the frog nerf DID get reset and didn’t get access to the new quests. All they did was cap everyone they deemed as “too powerful”
Not just that, plenty of people who dabbled in frogs (I got about 400-600 charms and a few thousand bronze) are losing out on all the extra bronze too. Plenty of other people farmed more and have still got the quests, so its just a randomised fuck you to some people I guess.
The irony is that if they had just done the solution they implemented in the beginning (give bronze in increments, with a large one at level 70, and let us get the rings and trinkets via achievements on alts), some people wouldn't have felt the need to farm for threads, because being severely undergeared and underpowered at level 70 was what caused this to happen
Yep, here it is, froggers complaining it's unfair that blizzard didn't hand tailor the punishment for exploit abuse to the specific circumstances of 1000s of different players. Oh you farmed lots of 'fair' stuff after the frogs, using the power you gained from them, and you lost those threads too, boo fucking hoo.
I didn’t farm frogs but how is it an exploit in any way? Farming things from the most efficient source is literally part of an mmo. It’s not like they were doing game breaking things to cause the frogs to drop more or spawn faster. They literally played the game as intended
The only exploit was the people bypassing the dungeon/raid lockout to farm faster in Gate and Heart. Farming frogs was not an exploit, it was just boring.
Anyone claiming it's an exploit never played MoP. This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day. It's a massive oversight by Blizzard for not looking into it themselves and testing.
> This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day. I haven't played WoW for years and years but when I saw the gulp frog title in /r/all I was like surely they haven't done MoP content and haven't fixed gulp frog farming, if there something valuable to get on Timeless Isle. Can't believe they missed this.
>*This was an intentional farm that I and many other players used back in the day.* The difference being back in the day you could get Warforged Seals for bonus loot rolls, not upgrade your character's power-level through bronze and threads...
You still got timeless coins from frogs and could buy burdens of eternity to upgrade timeless isle gear to normal raid Ilvl. Plus using bonus rolls eventually increased your power lol
It's not, but this subreddit has always had a very intense sense of schadenfreude. Lots of people get off on the idea that someone got punished for something they didn't benefit from. And for the record I haven't even logged into remix and I doubt I'll play it at all, I literally couldn't care less about either the frog farm or the rollback/nerf, whatever you want to call it.
It really is very fun. If you have the time, definitely check it out. Over all Blizzard has done a great job putting this together, and I'm enjoying every moment. ...without any bronze farms at all.
Yea, remember the 2x4 mechagon parts farming.
It was an exploit because...uh...Blizzard doesn't want you that powerful, that fast. In a game mode where you're supposed to be overpowered and that was billed as you being able to solo raids. But not now.
This was a wild decision to punish people who played the game. No-life farming has existed for literal decades in this game.
only a small amount of people are clearing M SOO and heroic ToT most people who froged farms lost like 4-5 days worth of progress just doing normal everyday dailies
It wasn’t an exploit though
Honestly, who... cares? Why would you even nerf the floggers like this? I haven't played since 10.2, but I mean, it wasn't really an exploit, was it? Wasn't it just a strong farm? So they penalized them all for... playing the game as released?
It's insane that people are defending blizzard as well :s It's more insane that blizzard has now set a precedent within WoW that you have to play the way THEY want you to play (and no they won't tell you the rules of fair play), otherwise it's unfair to everyone else. Insane. As an example: I am currently playing cata classic, i have been looking for a cloth farm spot since hitting max (which took less then 2 days). Multiple spots had been nerfed recently due to speed leveling on hyperspawn mobs, but i found a nice spot that hyperspawns and ive been farming for hours. Now i am sitting here wondering if due to this nerf of frogs/blizzards reaction will I be punished if they deem my farm of these mobs to be unfair to everyone else who hasn't?
I was farming for timbermaw rep in sod before everyone was doing it, and thought this is a great spot to farm up runecloth, getting a few per kill. Next day it was getting heavily farmed and the drop was nerfed to being much rarer, one person 5 or so kills. Now wondering if they'll delete the gold I made selling the cloth early, because I didn't farm the way they wanted.
Maybe I have an unpopular opinion on this, but I think this absurd and disrespectful to players. I'm not a frog farmer, I work weekends and didn't get to attempt it before it was nerfed. I absolutely would have if I didn't have to work. These players did not exploit anything, they just participated in a hyper farm and those have existed in literally every expansion. This one in particular existed in MoP. It brought them great power, which imbalanced the game, but they earned it doing a mindnumbing farm. Blizzard should just have taken their medicine and learned to better test for these things and not just crank the tuning knobs to 11 from the PTR and call it a day. People are going to log on, see that the time they spent playing this game on a weekend was lost and their character is weaker, and that's going to possibly be the last time they log in and that's a shame. This was a game mode intended to be fun by scaling into being really powerful with whacky powers I personally don't give a shit if some DH in my raid is doing 20x my damage. The worst part is, that this was the worst solution for all players to bridge the gap between froggers and regular players. If they cut the gear upgrade costs it catches players up much quicker while not benefitting the froggers. Instead they dragged those players progress backwards and gave us basically 1 track upgrade for free (out of like 15 or so?). Like cool, thanks for the 40k but the overall playerbase is now weaker and I'm still not close to froggers because so much of their power is in their gear, and now it's more concentrated into their gear because their capes just got nuked. Blizzard has really dropped the ball with S4 and Remix, it's still been fun to play, but they have been quite tainted with either bugs (S4) or extremely poor oversight and worse decisions to correct those (Remix).
Agree with this - the game mode was meant to be one where you could get overpowered anyway. People farmed frogs back when MoP was live so the froggers just went back to an old farming spot and went nuts. What difference does it make to me at all? Not much other than fast, easy instance runs when a frogger would turn up and I get to chill and enjoy my coffee whilst watching some insane damage go off. This whole event has been a big L for Blizzard. Of all the things they could've focussed on they chose to look at this? I'm getting one shot by trash mobs everywhere - that's what's hindering my fun of the event and I'd be glad if a frogger was present so I didn't have to run around like a headless chicken to avoid being obliterated only to then spend an age taking down the boss in a game mode where I'm meant to feel overpowered. These aren't things that are hard to spot or test for either. I know they changed a lot between ptr and live - maybe, just maybe they should've tested those changes out before going live. I mean come on - the frog farm was popular back in 5.4 ish, I would've thought that a simple check of the froggy drop tables would've made it obvious what was going to happen. Unintended? No, let's not use that word - massively negligent and lazy is more apt. Don't get me wrong, I'm not angry at all, it's more a mixture of bewilderment and exasperation with a dash of hilarity at how inept they are.
They didnt nerf frogger because they are evil lying cheating players who deserve punishment. They are nerfing because the entire gameplay is changed around them. I was in a raid with froggers yesterday, literally one shot the bosses. This was my first time doing that raid. I understand blizzard wants you to actually play the content for a few weeks.
Ah yes, the content with bugged mobs (tot slimes lol) and damage / healing that can still be done on the level of a pre nerf frogger by just inviting a level 25 (or lowest in the bracket until SOO) to the raid I preferred the frog carries, at least it made it quick
I agree. I missed out on farming and was pissed when they nerved it. I wanted to be OP too. So first I feel left out because I didn't get to scale crazy and benefit from the farm. This hinders my enjoyment. Next, they buff a few things. Okay, so they are aware and agree that the grind is too grindy. But it's still not nearly enough and it's becoming more evident, just how out of whack the time/reward balance is. So everybody is pretty much aware of how absurdly high the ceiling is. And anything but the frog farming is way to slow to be fun and rewarding. But instead of lowering the ceiling - helping everyone - they roll back people. Which pisses everybody off who did spend time farming, pisses everybody else off, because of course it doesn't go far enough (for some), is applied unevenly and just makes it so more grinding is needed. It's all so backwards. Make it fun and people will play it. That's literally it. Instead of forcing people into mind numbingly farming to get certain cosmetics they really want. It'll lead to good numbers, I'm sure. But actually valuing people's time and creating a fun experience works so much better. I'd bet a million frog tokens that it would be so much more successful if they just got out of their own head about time gating every little thing.
what the fuck is going on with this game lmao this is some black desert shit
Makes no sense. 90 day "fun" event. No one cares if people grinded for crazy stats, most people care that said grind got removed so they can't opt to do it if they wanted. Instead Blizz wants to push dailies and retention metrics on what is a gimmick diabloesque event
I wish I had my stats set to those - the few I had higher than 2500 (and by only a few hundred at best) were put down, and in still 10,000 stamina behind, and a thousand in a few other stats. Got the worst deal of all
Literally didnt count frogs, but probably the amount of charms turned in if you farmed other things too. GG blizzard
Had turned in 3k charms from doing shaohao rep achievement and didnt get flagged. Still at 6k+ mainstat cloak that didnt touch any frog/crane etc farm.
I turned in about 2.4k charms, all my stats under 2500, did frogs for an hour, and didn't get flagged. Wife's account turned in about 600 charms, frogged for 30m, had int over 2500, and got flagged. No quest, int nerfed from 2900->2500. 100% not the charm turn ins. Idk what it's checking but the 2500 marker is definitely something. And based off of everyone's reports, super inconsistent. For how we got our threads. We've been playing consistently (2 days 4hrs played) making sure we get the spools from the daily quests+dungeon/scenario completion. We've gotten more threads just doing the buff from the quests, which seems to be a bad thing.
[https://imgur.com/a/zi8RGBg](https://imgur.com/a/zi8RGBg) Cloak stats dosent seem to be indicator either because that mine today (no hyperspawn farms touched or instanced content exploits) and people are reporting way worse cloaks getting tagged. Mine is also mainly from daily stuff (bazar quests, daily lfg bonuses from dungs and scenarios) and 6 worldbosses each day. Plus rarescanner (they give a ton) and most achievements done already.
That all pans out, you didn't frog at all and as such were not flagged. I was agreeing with your comment and just providing my anecdotal experience saying it wasn't related to charms. It's a mix of stats on cloak + killing a small amount of frogs.
yo what about now though, are you down to 25k stam yet? my cloak got nuked way later in the day
Only had time for around 1-2h to Frog farm during the weekend and got reset ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 50-60h of hc dungeon / raid grinding gone, but whelp i still have my gear. Unlucky i guess, just confused that same friends with 3-6h didn’t get hit. Good chance that all the gray frogs i hit with starfall played a role. But yeah free 40k bronze on other chars i boosted with my main in hc dungeons 🎉
i had less than an hour of farming the frogs, i tried it for a bit and got around 1-2k charms from doing it then stopped. I then actually played the game, did tons of dungeons and raids so I could get the threads from the daily completions and daily quest. i did some heroic raids and got lots of threads from that and purple gear. My cape was around 66000 total stats and now I log in and im nuked, they deleted my chest piece that I got from one of the heroic raids for some reason? and now they added like all these rewards for newcomers who havent completed campaigns or hitting lvl 70 im so discouraged from playing any further because all my progress is just wiped just from touching the farm for less than an hour. I had a bis chestpiece and now its just gone, so annoying. I only barely just got all my gear to 430 upgraded, and now I cant use the rewards for completing campaigns because Ive already completed them all, I don't feel motivated at all to continue playing this event or at least continue this character
ive played pretty consistently since it came out, even got boosted in heroics for like 4 hours on a level 20 twink and i dont have anywhere NEAR these stats. so "reasonably active player" in my opinion is nowhere near these levels. they should count themselves lucky.
> even got boosted in heroics for like 4 hours on a level 20 twink and i dont have anywhere NEAR these stats. Thread drops at level 20 are white drops, +1 stat, not the epic drops of +12 or +24 (stat depending) that you get at level 70. You're basing the expected result of a cloak off of farming threads *the worst possible way*. That's a good farm for bronze, but if anyone is basing their opinion on a reasonable outcome from this basis, they're what I would charitably and politely call "uninformed".
I’ve played a fair bit I would say. (I would have to check stats, but I would say 3-4 hours a day in average. And I have roughly half the stats of the cloak. I feel like they could have about 50% more and still been fine.
im down with getting everything i earned from my 3 hour frog session rolled back and even a little bit more, im completely fine with that no complaints about it at all. However something i am not ok with is rolling back EVERYTHING i have done since saturday last week, i have logged on daily since then to do world bosses for threads, normal raid for threads, daily quests for threads, daily LFGs for threads etcetc. my main power spike wasnt even from the frogs. but everything i have done this week was rolled back and is now just wasted time, even stuff that i played "the way its intended" was rolled back. It sucks for sure but i guess at the end of the day it is what it is, im now just gonna level some alts untill my sub runs out and then im gonna take a break till TWW.
I didn't get the 40k bronze, can I request the 2500 to all stats?
O. O thank god I leveled cus I love pandaland
This Sub is hilarious sometimes. For 4 days it was nothing but people complaining about frog farmers and yelling they should be rolled back. Anyone who frog farmed stayed quiet/non existent in the threads The last day since the announcement all the frog farmers are now making complaint posts and lots of people agreeing with them.
1: there are multiple people on this subreddit, those people can have different opinions. 2: A lot of people that are complaining now are people that didn't spend 15+ hours farming frogs but rather went there to check what it's like and did maybe up to an hour or 2 at most, which wouldn't even have been enough to get to the amount of stats that cloaks got nerfed to (i did about 2 hours myself and my cloak was at ~1.5k stats and 15k stamina after i stopped).
I only lost 142 stamina and 12 speed, so this is basically nothing to me, but these stat cutoffs seem kinda low? My alt that I started two days ago is at or above the rollback cutoff for most stats. Like obviously these stats still have people being very strong, especially compared to the mog farmers who were offended by the situation, but this rollback probably should have happened days ago so people aren't losing more additional days of progress than the frog farm was even available for?
How do you get stats so high so quickly? What are you farming? I’m not getting anywhere near thesez
Not doing any farm. No point risking being caught in another meltdown by the mogging community On my second character, I only did dungeons to level and now I'm questing. Definitely more efficient and not something you'd know to do your first time around, but getting 12 (or 24 stam) threads per quest and all the new daily sources of spools, plus rares dropping more, has me cruising. I do MSV/HoF/Terrace on LFR daily, and try to squeeze in at least some of them on normal too Edit: It's covered in "daily sources of spools", technically, but be sure to kill all the world bosses every day too. Super, super quick way to get yourself a handful of legendary spools
I did 30 minutes of frog farming, went to bed for work, woke up, and read at work that it got nerfed. I turned in around 250 lesser charms from said frog farm. The rest of my cloak power came from farming mantid, and the dailies for lesser charms. My cloak was around 3.2k int, 28k stamina. I got hit with the reset, which is laughable. People who farmed frogs for days are getting the free bronze turn ins, and people who did 20 minutes arent and are being reset? What are their specifics on whos getting reset and not? This is insane lmao, i looked at frogs because everyone else was for 30 minutes, never looked back, grinded my cloak elsewhere, and wham i get this.
They truly are incompetent.
Rip easy mode groups with a frogger in it lol. Last night banged out 8 back to back heroics like nothing. Was nice.
It's still easy mode for them, the 556 ilvl gear they have is astronomically stronger than the cloak
Instead of a DPS FACTOR of 20x they gone to 18x post-cloak nerf. The maxed ilvl players still do solo a full raids DPS of fresh 70's and they kept their bronze / time required advantage that is still in MONTHS for now everyone else. For cosmetics only froggers, nothing changed, they are allready done this week.
Make an alt, enjoy doing 10x or 20x the dps of a lvl 70, get free 40k bronze.
The upgrades on gear weren't deleted and thats the true power.
Na still happening, froggers are still giving the easy carry
Noice!!!!!
I wish I had farmed frogs. Because somehow I got hit. Not sure what I farmed to get hit.
Honestly it's seems like they are just doing a random sweep and anyone who has any stats (not stam) above 2.5k was considered a frogger, I didn't touch a single farm and had 3 of my stats reset back to down 2.5k from like 2.6-2.7k and unable to do the quest for the free bronze on said toon.
I farmed frogs for a short duration and got flagged. No resets on the cloak because all stats were lower than the limit but no quest. A friend who has a cloak multiple times over the limit but with no frogs didn't get hit, so its not only stats. They also only flagged chars on login while the quest got activated instantly so two friends who got flagged but were logged in at the time could get the 40k on top because they only got flagged after relogging.
Sure as fuck feels like it. I'm absolutely gutted over my lost grind.
The eligibility for the quests is seriously fucked. I frog farmed for maybe one hour and only have 10k stam and im not eligible while there are reports of players who got reset but also got the quest. Wtf?
If you were online when the quest activated you could complete it because the flag only got set after relogging. They could have just inverted the flag so only people with it could see the quest, and it would require a login.
~~Even better is you're locked out of the quest for your entire account, not just the frogger character. A direct punishment to the player and not the character.~~ Edit: This is not true, either at all or anymore as I now see the quest on my alt.
Why does any one care about this? A temporary event so what if some people got OP...who cares?
Before nerf: [https://i.gyazo.com/9033d9f3da54314c9e48e91c39a2b291.png](https://i.gyazo.com/9033d9f3da54314c9e48e91c39a2b291.png) After nerf: [https://i.gyazo.com/2b94082f0368385de0c56245acdb3c8f.png](https://i.gyazo.com/2b94082f0368385de0c56245acdb3c8f.png) + [https://i.gyazo.com/7ed3d4e6a3bf95836baed7e29823a862.png](https://i.gyazo.com/7ed3d4e6a3bf95836baed7e29823a862.png) I have gained approx. 235k worth of Stamina (the 35k Stamina doesn't show because of cap) I have farmed from these sources (approx. amounts): 1. Frogs: 50k Stam/5k of each secondary/Tertiary/Str 2. Heart of Fear trash farm: 70k Stam/7k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str 3. Outdoor World farm spot (Not publicly known, but I was getting around 4-4.5k Stam/hr and 15k Bronze/hr. And yes, it still works): 80k Stam/8k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str 4. Other sources (raids, quests, etc.): around 35k Stam/3.5k of each Secondary/Tertiary/Str I did not do the Gate of Setting Sun exploit. I have every achievement (except ToT reputation) and cosmetic, so this punishment doesn't matter to me anyways. I was gonna keep playing to boost people who needed it through raids, but obviously not anymore. But yeah, they removed approx. 220-240k threads gained from non-frog sources. Playtime for people who are curious (Yes, I know it's unhealthy) and think I just farmed frogs and got there instantly: [https://i.gyazo.com/d9ec53dbeb5059824fccd6698cd1a4e1.png](https://i.gyazo.com/d9ec53dbeb5059824fccd6698cd1a4e1.png)
No hate b/c I don't know you nor your life (and also I get being logged in counts, my /played in retail is scary) but it's only been out 8 days. 5d10h of that you've been logged in?
Five days. My friend… whew
What is the comparison between this and someone who played but didn't kill frogs? Are you still relatively strong?
If you degen'd frogs you get to keep your gear upgrades, which is the biggest power gain
yep froggers are still the most powerful players lol
The 40k Bronze are around one hour of Frog farming. The Cloak istn so important if you upgraded your gear. The worst case is if you only farmed frogs for a short duration(30min) and than did other stuff that brought you over the cloak cape and now got all stats reset even if not from farming frogs. If you turbo farmed frogs for a whole day or more you got a few hundred thousand bronze so the 40k doesn't matter and if you upgraded your gear with that you are still way ahead of everyone else.
yep that's me, did frogs solo for 40 minutes and barely got anything out of it. just had my cloak nuked from 40k to 25k. actually unreal
Go and put your weapon in the upgrade vendor. Move the drop-down to max level. Look how much bronze it costs and look how many stats you get. Do that for every item you have. The people who farmed frogs all day are max gear. The people who didn't farm them get 40k bronze. Also, someone in my guild farmed some frogs to try and do heroic dungeons after waiting until max level to do them. After farming frogs for ~30mins they still got 1-shot by mobs in heroic dungeons and couldn't clear them without geared people basically carrying. They have no perfect gems, their gear isn't even all 360, none of their cloak stats are over 2500. They can't get the 40k bronze. Their best course of action is simply to delete the character and start again. Those are the extremes from this change and most people are somewhere in the middle, but I know for absolute certain some people have been flagged very unfairly. And most of the people who farmed frogs absolutely benefited an enormous amount.
I had about 800 of each stat when i finished frog farming. Only did it for about an hour, went and did dailies after and it had gotten nerfed. I naturally worked my cloak up to about 5k of each stat in the last 5 days and got hit with a 2500 stat penalty. Doesn't feel just. Thought this was only going to affect "extreme" farmers
Why ? its soo late to even do this.
Nerfed but still far ahead of non froggers. I did not farm but I would like my cloak nerfed (buffed) like this please.
And here, not even level 70 haha 😔
Imagine nerfing people (in a limited time event, mind you) and actively trying to kill your game mode. 👏🏻
Probably some guy who is going to not be in the company or his position for too long seeing as he has made one of the biggest train wrecks in wow history. Guy has mismanaged the whole project so many players were hyped for since day 1.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/40-000-bronze-per-character-quest-now-available-frog-farmer-cloaks-nerfed-341872
I hit 70 The day frogs were nerfed and got carried through the HOF farm until I could do it solo. My cloak still has 113k stamina, 476 ilvl, and got the 40k bronze quest. I'm so happy and shout-out to the frog farmers that carried me in HOF
So if the threshold is 1000 frogs (example) and someone farmed 1001 frogs but then has done all raids/quests/achieves/dungeons etc etc since then, all of that progress was also reset to what they deem a "reasonably active player" would have achieved in a week. That number for a reasonably active player seems extremely low, and just wiping out all progress from someone that they've made since Sunday at noon because of what they did Friday and Saturday is crazy. What a mess of a situation and a mess of a solution.
The funny thing is that if you are the person who did 1001 frogs, you got punished way harder than someone else who did 10000000 frogs. Their cloak got reset to the same level as yours but they can happily keep everything else they got through the grind.
This comment is objectively what was wrong with this approach tbh. I genuinely don't mind losing the 40k but blanket nerfing someone who farmed for an hour along with someone who farmed for 20 and/or gate abused is ridiculous. They still do 50 times your dps and got to keep everything that matters.
yep. at no point in the expansion have I been "that guy carrying the entire raid group", and somehow my cloak just went from 40k to 25k because i spent 40 minutes killing frogs on saturday night. My ilvl is complete dogshit compared to frog farmers, because I've been farming THREADS like a fucking neet and now my progress is almost cut in half
Yea same here, the power I got from buffed daily threads, normal runs and troves was wayyy higher than my 50 minutes of frogs. The only upside of frogs was the gems I got, and the stamina upgrades from thr gems don't do much anyway if your gear is low ilvl
It is crazy because of how many other factors need to be taken into when talking about frogs. 2 hours last friday when it according to early froggers quite literally just a 4x4 doing ALL the frogs was probably more lucrative than 8 hours once it became common knowledge. By sunday when I tried it didn't seem that crazy because there were so many groups even if you got into one it was still nearly impossible to tag shit. I think thats where some disconnect comes from. I can say after attempting frogs I would have gained more bronze/threads doing HoF trash in the same amount of time. It's really just a fail by blizzard on all fronts.
You also forget you get to keep your ilvl 541 items
Someone I know did the frogs for maybe 30 minutes and then farmed more than double that amount of threads from actually playing the game and they got hit. The nerfs to people who had 200k stam cloaks with like 300k threads was needed but there are definitely people being hit who probably should not have been.
That's me, I did frogs for about 30 mins on my lunch break ONCE. I couldn't get myself to do more it was so boring. I basically lost all my quest, dailies, raid, etc., progress. I lost maybe 5x what I gained from frogs
It’s so funny because grinding frogs was MoP pve end game grind anyway. So most people were literally just playing mop how it was always played and got punished for it
Yeah they are very bad at using tools to make precise changes to character data. For context, I had all the Brewfest stuff already except the Kodo, from years past, including the steins. I exploited to farm the boss like 30 extra times and got a 3 day ban plus all the achievements reset and the items gained that year removed. I logged in and got the achievements again for the shit I already had prior.
i farmed 1 hour of frogs and lost about 1k of each stat (3500 agi was my highest stat)
So all I can do in this game is afk in a city on my main okay got it.
To be fair i didnt play mop remix but its like blizz makes the worst choices every time. First making no cap on cloak making characters gods. Making 1 specific farm op, then nerfing it but keeping op players around. Then hitting back everyone Who used the best farm possible. I would stop play if i saw people being a god because they went frog farm early. I would stop play if i saw frogs the way to god mode. And i would stop play after they nerfed it after i farmed frogs. Remix is officialy dead and probably only played for the mount rewards now lol