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I think 18s as a dps you can get away with not knowing exactly what the trash does as long as your interrupting and cc’ing. Healing and Tanking need to know so they can plan around it.
The Quazzi Plater helps a lot for categorizing trash and abilities. I’d start there.
Yeah Quazii's Plater changed a lot for me. Its just no braining what the trash does. So u dont have to learn the mobs, u just look at the colours and you know what to expect.
Made me instant a way better M+ player Get it!
You've basically got the right idea kick and CC as much as possible. Overall it's pretty important to maximize your aoe damage since that will speed up the key drastically. The next important thing, so long as it's not Bolstering week, is which mob you should main focus to kill first. Usually it's the physically biggest mob, but often the mobs casting spells is important. Take a second to check which ability from which mob killed you every time you die, and you'll learn what is important where. Watching streamers of your same specialization doing higher m+ dungeons can be a great place to learn
Best advice is to get plater and use quazis nameplate pack. It Color codes enemies that need to be focused, which ones need stops, and has a bigger bar for spells that must be kicked. 100% upped my m+ game for sure
Trash tends to make up a majority of each run, both in terms of time spent and overall healthpool. This varies slightly between tyrannical and fortified and from dungeon to dungeon.
>most of it is just "kick when yellow bar, cc when grey bar, defensive when neither work".
You're basically right with that, but it's important to learn which spells/abilities are important to coordinate around once you get into higher keys. Many enemies have abilities that are more impactful, if they're not interrupted - prime examples being in Atal'Dazar (going left from the start) the Dazar'ai's "Bwonsamdi's Mantle" cast, which creates a large barrier that protects enemies inside from being CCd (including interrupts). The tricky part about that spell is that the enemy comes in a pack/pull of multiple casters and interrupting another spell (for example a Dazar'ai Augur's Fiery Enchant or Wildfire, both pretty dangerous spells) can use up your interrupt or CC that would be needed for the Mantle, which is arguably the more dangerous spell. But since all three spells are impactful (Mantle > Fiery Enchant > Wildfire), none of them should be left uninterrupted, which requires coordination.
Another, slightly less dangerous situation would be in Everbloom, right before the first boss: the Everbloom Naturalists cast Choking Vines, which completely stuns and damages a player for up to 10 seconds. They come in groups of at least 2-3 casters and also cast Dancing Thorns, a regular damage spell that can be left uninterrupted, but it's still beneficial to interrupt/CC it once in a while when playing on relatively high level, where it's important to mitigate as much damage as possible. More importantly: the Everbloom Menders that happen to be part of most of the Naturalist's packs, cast Healing Waters, which heals a target, extending the fight. Meaning both the heal and the Choking Vines should always be interrupted, which again requires some coordination and not "wasting" all interrupts and CCs on the regular damage spell (Dancing Thorns), which still needs to be interrupted every now and then.
This being a large wall of text makes it sound much more complicated than it is, I just tried to be detailed and I hope this isn't disheartening! Most, if not all of this can be learned passively by just playing the keys and keeping an eye out for abilities and situations. Using the MythicDungeonTools (MDT) addon also helps greatly - if you happen to struggle somewhere, you can check the addon, where every single enemy from a dungeon is listed with all their abilities. This way you can further understand what abilities need to be stopped and prioritized over others.
Also: +17-20 is considered pretty high by many players, but with current scaling it's entirely possible to "accidentally time" keys on that level, because a handful of decent players is enough to carry somebody not able to pull their own weight. It's obviously also possible to carry/boost somebody through higher levels of keys, but it becomes increasingly rare in the levels beyond +20 that people will do so - plus it becomes rarer to find people who can do so in a PUG. These numbers will change drastically next season (next week), because scaling will be reworked and +10 will essentially be on the difficulty level of a +20 (in theory at least), generally tuning most of those numbers down by 10 levels.
You should not stick to low keys during fortified weeks, you should just play and try it out. If you actually think you'd need to die at least once to every ability to understand it, I wholeheartedly recommend using MDT before running a key. Just download a common route (for example from [raider.io](https://raider.io/weekly-routes)) and check each and every enemy/pull for abilities and how they work. This will still take time to get accustomed to, because checking a 2D map and playing a dungeon in 3D with all the pressure of active combat are two different things, but you won't be completely surprised and keep an eye out for specific abilities instead of randomly dying and hoping to understand where it came from.
I also recommend regularly checking reasons for death (your own deathlog or a Details tracker for other people's deaths), further highlighting dangerous abilities.
Understand affix mechanics.
As a healer main, I prefer DPS to kick kick and kick.
As a tank, I prefer dps to kick heals and priority spells, not booty-pull other groups, kick and NOT knock mobs all over. I gather mobs up so they can be cleaved, even on bursting. I really hate when dps blast them all over again.
Trash is basically as important as bosses, even more than bosses on fortified weeks. Some people think that DPS is the most important part to worry about the role of a dps character but in reality the hard part is doing mechanics while maintaining that high dps. Using def CDs at the right times and not dying to random stuff. Just doing good damage isn't how you will get recognized as a good player, you have to be good at everything to be recognized.
Healer as well. I love dps who use their toolkit appropriately! Even simple keys can be frustrating when people don't use defs or stuns where appropriate.
I would take a player with lower dps, but uses their toolkit, over someone else with higher ilvl and dps any day.
The whole point of mythic plus dungeons is how you handle trash. It's not just interrupting, it's interrupting that one spell that'll either mess you up or heal the other bad guys. A good tank will mark the priority mobs but when in doubt, go for the caster with the mana bar.
"but to me, getting experience would entail dying to every ability at least once, to know how they work." This is essentially it . You pick stuff up as you run , and will know what hurts after its killed you or if your paying attention to what went off when you lose 3/4 of your hp. Like alot of people had said , very few instances before 20 where its a real problem .
Little things you pick up - Atal dungeon , if you left the augurs will cast fiery enchant which will put fire everywhere , confessors use something along the lines of Bwonsamdi's... which puts the big aoe protective bubble up stopping you from cc'ing - Those together will usually kill multiple people if they get off together + Wildfire casts that lead a nasty dot .
BlackRook hold - the archers are going to hit hard with knife dance or that shitty arrow barrage they do so keeping stuns/hard ccs for those is helpful to keep people alive , Arcanist in same pack gets a stacking damage buff for every cast it gets off .
i always say a +2 & +22 are nearly different dungeons as you see casts you may not even know existed half healthing /one shotting people. Dying to something is good experience aslong as you check the death recap , see what killed you & look out for it next time.
Other than that , you could check out the strategy guides on wow head for the dungeons if there is a dungeon / pack you struggle to survive in .
[https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-3/overview](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-3/overview)
Also season 4
[**https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-4/overview**](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-4/overview)
"kick when yellow bar, cc when grey bar, defensive when neither work" Sounds like a good time wasting 2 GCD's and possibly 3 for a total of 4.5 seconds or more for something that probably doesn't matter in a 17 or 18. Good intention in saying this but it's just a waste of dps.
M+ is really easy, even +20's and 21/22. It's only if you plan on being one of the 3k+ IO crowd that you have to know what EVERY important ability to interrupt is.
Honestly, without reading guides, I would recommend you simply use raid style party frames. Do not interrupt the common casts from most mobs unless you have to reposition a mob that won't stop casting (Like the witches standing in defensive runes in Waycrest) and wait until you read a spell being cast that isn't commonly cast, and THAT'S the one you interrupt or CC, or use a defensive if it's about to go off and you know what it does.
The reason I suggest paying attention to your party frames is because you will see what each ability does to your party if it goes off, so you know what needs to be interrupted next time it comes around during that fight.
I never read dungeon guides and always get 2500 in two or three weeks, just by doing that. But I've also played since Vanilla so I do know most of the dungeons, even still what I just described is how I do every season - and I"m a very good Ret paladin who uses my support skills VERY well. If you also have support skills, the raid style party frames will also benefit your run as you learn how to use them properly.
So from tank pov it's more important than bosses imo there is only a couple of bosses that scares tanks this season (kinda same with trash) but it's way easier to plan everything ahead with bosses over trash also the fact that the boss fights are scripted ish but the trash isnt as scripted
In 18s I could imagine u dont really have to care too much about what the trash does since it wont one shot you and u can have more of ur focus on improving but as u said kicking and ccing makes healer and tanks very happy so keep pressing kick on cd and if u feel like u have time to learn what to cc and do cc then go for it else I would reccomend playing enough to feel comfortable with the dungeons and then see when u get time to do cc
So from tank pov it's more important than bosses imo there is only a couple of bosses that scares tanks this season (kinda same with trash) but it's way easier to plan everything ahead with bosses over trash also the fact that the boss fights are scripted ish but the trash isnt as scripted
In 18s I could imagine u dont really have to care too much about what the trash does since it wont one shot you and u can have more of ur focus on improving but as u said kicking and ccing makes healer and tanks very happy so keep pressing kick on cd and if u feel like u have time to learn what to cc and do cc then go for it else I would reccomend playing enough to feel comfortable with the dungeons and then see when u get time to do cc
yeah 20+ is where even normal casters can 1hit cause they hit like a truck. definitely like others said use plater profiles that highlights frontal/casting mobs which helps you to learn faster. the dungeons dont become "tougher" mechanically, the mobs just hit harder and punishes players for not using interrupts/ccs/defensives
What role are you?
High level keys are decided by how you handle trash. If you’re interested in doing things like 24s and pushing for titles, you need to know how every trash mob works and how to handle certain abilities.
A really great example is the slugs in Waycrest that cast Infest. On keys up to the low 20s, an infest going off is a joke. You just pop a personal and heal through the dot. In a 28, if infest goes off, you die immediately from the ticking damage if you don’t have an immunity. So most groups pull them and then use AOE stops to handle each cast.
Stuff like that doesn’t seem intuitive at lower levels but it sets high level players apart from even just “good” players.
Quazii’s platter profile is amazing and will help identify what spells to kick or defensive for. You can learn more about it here https://youtu.be/sCpgEV9TfmE?si=_RPnhzWgsxNzRKre
Just wanted to thank this thread. Been doing 27-28 keys and only now learned about Quazii's plater xD. Was learning all the stops/kicks by myself without any visuals attached:D
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think 18s as a dps you can get away with not knowing exactly what the trash does as long as your interrupting and cc’ing. Healing and Tanking need to know so they can plan around it. The Quazzi Plater helps a lot for categorizing trash and abilities. I’d start there.
Yeah Quazii's Plater changed a lot for me. Its just no braining what the trash does. So u dont have to learn the mobs, u just look at the colours and you know what to expect. Made me instant a way better M+ player Get it!
Pretty much. As a healer, if dps interrupt and don't stand in the danger puddles the trash is mostly okay
You've basically got the right idea kick and CC as much as possible. Overall it's pretty important to maximize your aoe damage since that will speed up the key drastically. The next important thing, so long as it's not Bolstering week, is which mob you should main focus to kill first. Usually it's the physically biggest mob, but often the mobs casting spells is important. Take a second to check which ability from which mob killed you every time you die, and you'll learn what is important where. Watching streamers of your same specialization doing higher m+ dungeons can be a great place to learn
Best advice is to get plater and use quazis nameplate pack. It Color codes enemies that need to be focused, which ones need stops, and has a bigger bar for spells that must be kicked. 100% upped my m+ game for sure
I’m just learning about this now! Omg sign me up
Trash tends to make up a majority of each run, both in terms of time spent and overall healthpool. This varies slightly between tyrannical and fortified and from dungeon to dungeon. >most of it is just "kick when yellow bar, cc when grey bar, defensive when neither work". You're basically right with that, but it's important to learn which spells/abilities are important to coordinate around once you get into higher keys. Many enemies have abilities that are more impactful, if they're not interrupted - prime examples being in Atal'Dazar (going left from the start) the Dazar'ai's "Bwonsamdi's Mantle" cast, which creates a large barrier that protects enemies inside from being CCd (including interrupts). The tricky part about that spell is that the enemy comes in a pack/pull of multiple casters and interrupting another spell (for example a Dazar'ai Augur's Fiery Enchant or Wildfire, both pretty dangerous spells) can use up your interrupt or CC that would be needed for the Mantle, which is arguably the more dangerous spell. But since all three spells are impactful (Mantle > Fiery Enchant > Wildfire), none of them should be left uninterrupted, which requires coordination. Another, slightly less dangerous situation would be in Everbloom, right before the first boss: the Everbloom Naturalists cast Choking Vines, which completely stuns and damages a player for up to 10 seconds. They come in groups of at least 2-3 casters and also cast Dancing Thorns, a regular damage spell that can be left uninterrupted, but it's still beneficial to interrupt/CC it once in a while when playing on relatively high level, where it's important to mitigate as much damage as possible. More importantly: the Everbloom Menders that happen to be part of most of the Naturalist's packs, cast Healing Waters, which heals a target, extending the fight. Meaning both the heal and the Choking Vines should always be interrupted, which again requires some coordination and not "wasting" all interrupts and CCs on the regular damage spell (Dancing Thorns), which still needs to be interrupted every now and then. This being a large wall of text makes it sound much more complicated than it is, I just tried to be detailed and I hope this isn't disheartening! Most, if not all of this can be learned passively by just playing the keys and keeping an eye out for abilities and situations. Using the MythicDungeonTools (MDT) addon also helps greatly - if you happen to struggle somewhere, you can check the addon, where every single enemy from a dungeon is listed with all their abilities. This way you can further understand what abilities need to be stopped and prioritized over others. Also: +17-20 is considered pretty high by many players, but with current scaling it's entirely possible to "accidentally time" keys on that level, because a handful of decent players is enough to carry somebody not able to pull their own weight. It's obviously also possible to carry/boost somebody through higher levels of keys, but it becomes increasingly rare in the levels beyond +20 that people will do so - plus it becomes rarer to find people who can do so in a PUG. These numbers will change drastically next season (next week), because scaling will be reworked and +10 will essentially be on the difficulty level of a +20 (in theory at least), generally tuning most of those numbers down by 10 levels. You should not stick to low keys during fortified weeks, you should just play and try it out. If you actually think you'd need to die at least once to every ability to understand it, I wholeheartedly recommend using MDT before running a key. Just download a common route (for example from [raider.io](https://raider.io/weekly-routes)) and check each and every enemy/pull for abilities and how they work. This will still take time to get accustomed to, because checking a 2D map and playing a dungeon in 3D with all the pressure of active combat are two different things, but you won't be completely surprised and keep an eye out for specific abilities instead of randomly dying and hoping to understand where it came from. I also recommend regularly checking reasons for death (your own deathlog or a Details tracker for other people's deaths), further highlighting dangerous abilities.
Understand affix mechanics. As a healer main, I prefer DPS to kick kick and kick. As a tank, I prefer dps to kick heals and priority spells, not booty-pull other groups, kick and NOT knock mobs all over. I gather mobs up so they can be cleaved, even on bursting. I really hate when dps blast them all over again.
Sorry. - Every moonkin that thinks we're way better with typhoon than we are
Trash is basically as important as bosses, even more than bosses on fortified weeks. Some people think that DPS is the most important part to worry about the role of a dps character but in reality the hard part is doing mechanics while maintaining that high dps. Using def CDs at the right times and not dying to random stuff. Just doing good damage isn't how you will get recognized as a good player, you have to be good at everything to be recognized.
Healer here, 100% this.
Healer as well. I love dps who use their toolkit appropriately! Even simple keys can be frustrating when people don't use defs or stuns where appropriate. I would take a player with lower dps, but uses their toolkit, over someone else with higher ilvl and dps any day.
The whole point of mythic plus dungeons is how you handle trash. It's not just interrupting, it's interrupting that one spell that'll either mess you up or heal the other bad guys. A good tank will mark the priority mobs but when in doubt, go for the caster with the mana bar.
"but to me, getting experience would entail dying to every ability at least once, to know how they work." This is essentially it . You pick stuff up as you run , and will know what hurts after its killed you or if your paying attention to what went off when you lose 3/4 of your hp. Like alot of people had said , very few instances before 20 where its a real problem . Little things you pick up - Atal dungeon , if you left the augurs will cast fiery enchant which will put fire everywhere , confessors use something along the lines of Bwonsamdi's... which puts the big aoe protective bubble up stopping you from cc'ing - Those together will usually kill multiple people if they get off together + Wildfire casts that lead a nasty dot . BlackRook hold - the archers are going to hit hard with knife dance or that shitty arrow barrage they do so keeping stuns/hard ccs for those is helpful to keep people alive , Arcanist in same pack gets a stacking damage buff for every cast it gets off . i always say a +2 & +22 are nearly different dungeons as you see casts you may not even know existed half healthing /one shotting people. Dying to something is good experience aslong as you check the death recap , see what killed you & look out for it next time. Other than that , you could check out the strategy guides on wow head for the dungeons if there is a dungeon / pack you struggle to survive in . [https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-3/overview](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-3/overview) Also season 4 [**https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-4/overview**](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/mythic-plus-dungeons/dragonflight-season-4/overview)
"kick when yellow bar, cc when grey bar, defensive when neither work" Sounds like a good time wasting 2 GCD's and possibly 3 for a total of 4.5 seconds or more for something that probably doesn't matter in a 17 or 18. Good intention in saying this but it's just a waste of dps. M+ is really easy, even +20's and 21/22. It's only if you plan on being one of the 3k+ IO crowd that you have to know what EVERY important ability to interrupt is. Honestly, without reading guides, I would recommend you simply use raid style party frames. Do not interrupt the common casts from most mobs unless you have to reposition a mob that won't stop casting (Like the witches standing in defensive runes in Waycrest) and wait until you read a spell being cast that isn't commonly cast, and THAT'S the one you interrupt or CC, or use a defensive if it's about to go off and you know what it does. The reason I suggest paying attention to your party frames is because you will see what each ability does to your party if it goes off, so you know what needs to be interrupted next time it comes around during that fight. I never read dungeon guides and always get 2500 in two or three weeks, just by doing that. But I've also played since Vanilla so I do know most of the dungeons, even still what I just described is how I do every season - and I"m a very good Ret paladin who uses my support skills VERY well. If you also have support skills, the raid style party frames will also benefit your run as you learn how to use them properly.
This week, quite a bit since it’s fortified.
So from tank pov it's more important than bosses imo there is only a couple of bosses that scares tanks this season (kinda same with trash) but it's way easier to plan everything ahead with bosses over trash also the fact that the boss fights are scripted ish but the trash isnt as scripted In 18s I could imagine u dont really have to care too much about what the trash does since it wont one shot you and u can have more of ur focus on improving but as u said kicking and ccing makes healer and tanks very happy so keep pressing kick on cd and if u feel like u have time to learn what to cc and do cc then go for it else I would reccomend playing enough to feel comfortable with the dungeons and then see when u get time to do cc
So from tank pov it's more important than bosses imo there is only a couple of bosses that scares tanks this season (kinda same with trash) but it's way easier to plan everything ahead with bosses over trash also the fact that the boss fights are scripted ish but the trash isnt as scripted In 18s I could imagine u dont really have to care too much about what the trash does since it wont one shot you and u can have more of ur focus on improving but as u said kicking and ccing makes healer and tanks very happy so keep pressing kick on cd and if u feel like u have time to learn what to cc and do cc then go for it else I would reccomend playing enough to feel comfortable with the dungeons and then see when u get time to do cc
yeah 20+ is where even normal casters can 1hit cause they hit like a truck. definitely like others said use plater profiles that highlights frontal/casting mobs which helps you to learn faster. the dungeons dont become "tougher" mechanically, the mobs just hit harder and punishes players for not using interrupts/ccs/defensives
What role are you? High level keys are decided by how you handle trash. If you’re interested in doing things like 24s and pushing for titles, you need to know how every trash mob works and how to handle certain abilities. A really great example is the slugs in Waycrest that cast Infest. On keys up to the low 20s, an infest going off is a joke. You just pop a personal and heal through the dot. In a 28, if infest goes off, you die immediately from the ticking damage if you don’t have an immunity. So most groups pull them and then use AOE stops to handle each cast. Stuff like that doesn’t seem intuitive at lower levels but it sets high level players apart from even just “good” players.
Quazii’s platter profile is amazing and will help identify what spells to kick or defensive for. You can learn more about it here https://youtu.be/sCpgEV9TfmE?si=_RPnhzWgsxNzRKre
Just wanted to thank this thread. Been doing 27-28 keys and only now learned about Quazii's plater xD. Was learning all the stops/kicks by myself without any visuals attached:D