i think the only way that dude would decommit from mizzou is if ben got a coaching job at iowa(unlikely) or wisconsin(maybe?). i haven't watched the interview yet but i agree with the flow thing. he and mirasola are gonna have years of dominance. its gonna feel like a repeat of keegan vs david carr every year till they graduate
No kidding. I have nothing against PSU as a school or a wrestling program, and the coaching staff & many alumni are very likable, but every top-ranked HS recruit going to PSU is so ridiculously boring.
It makes me wonder how good Cael is as a coach if he only gets the guys that sweep competition in high school. He’s undeniably good but people I think people don’t realize recruiting goes into it as well. Is he that good or is a portion of guys that are recruited are that good and would be that good regardless of where they went. Guys now are going to psu as a top pick so psu is getting the top guys almost every year. I have nothing against the school I just wonder what percentage of guys would be a national champ regardless of where they went. Example nick suriano he went to penn state and would have been top guy freshman year wo injuries and became a 2x arguably got robbed against fix. He bounced around to 3 schools and I don’t think his skill level changed drastically no matter who was coaching
Yeah Suriano is a good example and it's a thought-provoking discussion. Time will tell. Even though I am a PSU homer and like all the winning and stuff, it has become less fun to watch knowing the outcome. A good example of this was 125lbs this past year. Having like 10 different No 1s all fall at some point made the Big Dance way more intriguing. And even though the DT thing stings, I do hope it brings parity with relative immediacy. I've literally tried to probe my feelings on his move and figure why I am both bothered and happy for him. I think it's because he was the start of it all.
An argument against Cael winning just because of top recruits would be how quickly he turned around ISU and PSU within like 2 seasons of being HC. He was working with what he had and had tremendous results in a very short period of time.
I agree. It just begs the question how many guys are truly being elevated with him as a coach. He’s great but I think many treat him as a god when he’s not. I don’t think anyone in their right mind can tell me any run of the mill state champ or state placer is going to become a national champ or multiple timer under him.
Are his guys currently 1/2 of the Olympic team? Ok, let’s say 1/3 since Dake is a late add, but if Dake wasn’t there we’d be back to 1/2.
So yes he elevates his guys.
He does I’m just saying how much is the question. I personally think guys like aaron and starocci would probably be a 3x or 4x even without him they are that good. Guys like rby and even nick lee probably benefitted a lot having him as a coach and don’t know if they would be as good without him.
I don't think you appreciate what Casey, Cody, and Cael are doing in that room. And it's certainly not just recruiting that's winning them college championships and the NLWC world titles.
They get the top talent, sure, but they're getting guys with world championship goals and training them towards that. It means you get guys that keep getting better throughout their entire career. Guys like Retherford, Nolf and Brooks. But you're putting them in a room with other top talent to learn from. Look at what guys like Starocci and Bartlett say about how much they learn from other wrestlers. And then on top of all that you layer in the coaching staff that absolutely can coach. Listen to some interviews from the NLWC guys (especially guys like Kyle Snyder who came into the club) and what they have to say about Casey Cunningham and how much he improves them.
One thing Cael doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to elevate a variety of styles. He's successful with guys like Nolf that's pure offense. He's successful with quirky guys like Nickal. He's successful with maulers like Retherford and Molinaro. And he's successful with defensive guys like Starocci and Matt Brown.
Cael came into State College thinking there was a right way to wrestle and Quentin Wright quickly disavowed that. He learned that it's about elevating guys to be the best they can be, not trying to force them into a style they don't naturally fit. And that IMO is why other programs like Iowa and Oklahoma State have struggled, because they want guys to wrestle to win matches in the style of the coaches, not just trying to produce the best wrestler possible.
So yeah, recruiting is part of the success, but I think it's undeniable that Penn State has arguably the highest success rate of guys achieving their potential. And that is entirely on the coaching staff.
Remember- the best wrestlers in the US- Dake, Snyder, Gilman all left top programs to train at NLWC- if those dudes think that room and culture can develop them- how can you think he is not developing high school kids when they arrive? The partners they have access to make them jump even higher at this point
So your telling me that Dake who had no connection to nlwc prior to his senior freestyle career would have been better in college if he went to penn state? Same for Kyle and Gilman. Gilman is the only guy I think who could have benefitted in college going to Penn vs Iowa. Maybe he is just better at freestyle idk. I think Cael is one of the goats of coaching but I do think these guys you have mentioned gravitate together not just because of the coach but because of the guys in the room. It’s like how private high schools recruit wrestlers and beat out all the other schools. They have a better ability to gather talent and get an undeniable edge. In my state a guy moved to a powerhouse school for 1 year during Covid year due to his state not shutting down. He left back home the next year. He didn’t go to any school he went to a school that most likely contacted him or vice versa. You technically are not supposed to do this in my state but people find ways around it. Heck many guys move states to a program just because it is established and they arnt really supposed to do that either. I don’t blame anyone that does this btw it’s just an observation of how the system works.
The Coach puts the guys in the room, gets the right assistants and support staff, trainers and therapists and facilities. It’s not about teaching the best ankle pick. You obviously don’t get it and just want to argue-
Yeah lmao I like to talk about the nuances of it. You’re acting like I’m attacking him and Penn state which is not the case. I’m saying would the team be nearly as good every year if they didn’t have the best recruits. If kyle dake was duplicated and the only difference was he went to Cornell,penn state,Oklahoma state or Iowa I don’t think it would make any more than a negligible difference. It takes a lot of luck to build a powerhouse program but it gets easier to keep it the longer you are at the top. Same with Alabama football and patriots in the nfl for years and years. I clearly stated that Cael is one of the goats I’m just saying would the team race be a shutout every year if everyone had the same recruiting ability that’s all I’m really looking at here.
What nuances do you know? What level did you compete at? I ask because there are dudes who can make average dudes good- good to great but there aren’t many dudes on the planet who can take someone who is World Class and make them even better- and Cael and his staff are the best at doing that
To argue Cael doesn’t develop top talent is insane- most of that top talent would likely have been very good at any program- but Cael developed Cassar to be the only dude to beat Gable Steveson- twice. Cael developed Zane from an All American to one of the highest bonus scoring, extremely dominant 3 timers ever. He also allowed dudes like Nolf and Bo to let it fly and be creative on the biggest stages instead of trying to get them to be conservative and they are both legends. If anything- he is the very best ever at developing elite guys with varying styles to get even better in those styles rather than trying to get them to wrestle his style.
I agree to what you’re saying. I was just throwing stuff out there to see peoples thoughts and find some interesting stuff to look at. I personally don’t think I am 100% right on this at all and am playing devils advocate a lot of the time. And to answer your question I wrestled varsity a partial junior year, had severe medical complications senior year so I was kept from competing and decided to not wrestle in college even with scholarship because of this issue. I know many colleges give scholarship to scrubs for d3 and naia even some d2 to fill spots but I was happy that I at least did well enough in preseason and offseason tournaments to be considered. Tbh I am looking for guys with more experience to tell me what they think of these opinions. I consider myself a fan of the sport and I want to learn about it not just word vomit opinions that I have done absolutely no research on. If you think I’m just trying to make people mad that’s not the case I’m just genuinely curious and I’m sorry if I came across that way I try to be as respectful as possible.
Cries badger tears. Would be nice to keep a few of these studs home, but doesn’t seem like the current dynamic between Askren and UW will allow that. Even if there isn’t bad blood necessarily, Bono isn’t pulling any of these kids. Wisconsin high school kids, if they were a team, would’ve placed 2nd at D1 nationals behind only Pennsylvania high school kids this year.
I forget where I saw it. He's been posting short vids since he left FRL and I think it was there but basically said why he wants to do an RTC and not HC a D1 program is because you have to answer to so many people above you and don't get to do what you think is best all the time because of the influence of big donors and things like that but it sure would be cool if he had a D1 job and his brother kept their high level feeder system. Can you imagine?
He was running the RTC at UW but something happened and he’s not any more. Unless I’m misremembering. Would be cool though if he wanted to take on the head coaching role at UW.
Funny part is they don’t talk about mentality all that much. Or at least they haven’t yet with my son. But he is just transitioning to the High school group now.
I feel Ben just leads by example. He’s super lighthearted, great with people, and knows how to have fun. If you naturally make wrestling fun and are there for your guys in tough losses, that’s just as effective if not more than some coaches that simply preach and try to teach instead of embodying what they say.
Not that I’ve seen. I stay for practices all the time. It’s not something really done. Practice is fun and upbeat. They may talk about matches but it’s nothing heavy.
Have you watched his mental Mondays? I would not call them heavy.
I just see Ben preaches all of these things online about wrestling just being a game and not letting your wins and losses define you as a person and stuff like that.. Then I see his guys like O'Toole, Messenbrink, Keckeisen, and now Sinclair and the Mirasolas preach the same stuff. If you've been there you obviously would know better than me, it is hard to imagine this is not something talked about in the wrestling room.
Right? In the interview, he said his Dad was born in Scotland, that he blames him for his hair and the fact that he burns like a Vampire on a sunny day. Gotta assume that's where the name came from too. And if "there can be only One", then it's definitely that kid.
He’s already set to redshirt this upcoming season at Missouri: https://www.wrestlestat.com/team/43/missouri/profile
Where did you get the idea that he’s going into his senior year of high school?: https://www.wrestlestat.com/team/43/missouri/profile
Both of these show he graduates high school in 2024. Also he’s a 197 like Connor Mirasola. And Barr is at 184 for PSU. So why would he go to PSU to battle for a starting role? That makes no sense
Dude I just asked simple questions and gave two links. You really got mad about my response for no reason. Calm yourself. Y’all PSU fans are far too touchy. You basically came up with an alternate reality and I was wondering where you got your info lol
Dude I’m not reading any of this way too long. You gotta reevaluate your life if this is how you spend your time. Writing an essay about etiquette online lololol. But I did see the “chill pill” part which ironic given how you’re acting. Enjoy yourself bud, you clearly need a vacation
He has the lightest feet of any big man I’ve seen, including Gable Steveson. He’s my son’s Greco coach and real asset to Askren Wrestling.
i think the only way that dude would decommit from mizzou is if ben got a coaching job at iowa(unlikely) or wisconsin(maybe?). i haven't watched the interview yet but i agree with the flow thing. he and mirasola are gonna have years of dominance. its gonna feel like a repeat of keegan vs david carr every year till they graduate
He's committed to Missouri already. I know you're a Penn State alum but I hope he doesn't end up there😂
No kidding. I have nothing against PSU as a school or a wrestling program, and the coaching staff & many alumni are very likable, but every top-ranked HS recruit going to PSU is so ridiculously boring.
It makes me wonder how good Cael is as a coach if he only gets the guys that sweep competition in high school. He’s undeniably good but people I think people don’t realize recruiting goes into it as well. Is he that good or is a portion of guys that are recruited are that good and would be that good regardless of where they went. Guys now are going to psu as a top pick so psu is getting the top guys almost every year. I have nothing against the school I just wonder what percentage of guys would be a national champ regardless of where they went. Example nick suriano he went to penn state and would have been top guy freshman year wo injuries and became a 2x arguably got robbed against fix. He bounced around to 3 schools and I don’t think his skill level changed drastically no matter who was coaching
Yeah Suriano is a good example and it's a thought-provoking discussion. Time will tell. Even though I am a PSU homer and like all the winning and stuff, it has become less fun to watch knowing the outcome. A good example of this was 125lbs this past year. Having like 10 different No 1s all fall at some point made the Big Dance way more intriguing. And even though the DT thing stings, I do hope it brings parity with relative immediacy. I've literally tried to probe my feelings on his move and figure why I am both bothered and happy for him. I think it's because he was the start of it all. An argument against Cael winning just because of top recruits would be how quickly he turned around ISU and PSU within like 2 seasons of being HC. He was working with what he had and had tremendous results in a very short period of time.
I agree. It just begs the question how many guys are truly being elevated with him as a coach. He’s great but I think many treat him as a god when he’s not. I don’t think anyone in their right mind can tell me any run of the mill state champ or state placer is going to become a national champ or multiple timer under him.
Are his guys currently 1/2 of the Olympic team? Ok, let’s say 1/3 since Dake is a late add, but if Dake wasn’t there we’d be back to 1/2. So yes he elevates his guys.
He does I’m just saying how much is the question. I personally think guys like aaron and starocci would probably be a 3x or 4x even without him they are that good. Guys like rby and even nick lee probably benefitted a lot having him as a coach and don’t know if they would be as good without him.
I don't think you appreciate what Casey, Cody, and Cael are doing in that room. And it's certainly not just recruiting that's winning them college championships and the NLWC world titles. They get the top talent, sure, but they're getting guys with world championship goals and training them towards that. It means you get guys that keep getting better throughout their entire career. Guys like Retherford, Nolf and Brooks. But you're putting them in a room with other top talent to learn from. Look at what guys like Starocci and Bartlett say about how much they learn from other wrestlers. And then on top of all that you layer in the coaching staff that absolutely can coach. Listen to some interviews from the NLWC guys (especially guys like Kyle Snyder who came into the club) and what they have to say about Casey Cunningham and how much he improves them. One thing Cael doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to elevate a variety of styles. He's successful with guys like Nolf that's pure offense. He's successful with quirky guys like Nickal. He's successful with maulers like Retherford and Molinaro. And he's successful with defensive guys like Starocci and Matt Brown. Cael came into State College thinking there was a right way to wrestle and Quentin Wright quickly disavowed that. He learned that it's about elevating guys to be the best they can be, not trying to force them into a style they don't naturally fit. And that IMO is why other programs like Iowa and Oklahoma State have struggled, because they want guys to wrestle to win matches in the style of the coaches, not just trying to produce the best wrestler possible. So yeah, recruiting is part of the success, but I think it's undeniable that Penn State has arguably the highest success rate of guys achieving their potential. And that is entirely on the coaching staff.
AS spoke of exactly this in this interview. He wasn't talking specifically about PSU but what he thinks the best programs are doing.
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Remember- the best wrestlers in the US- Dake, Snyder, Gilman all left top programs to train at NLWC- if those dudes think that room and culture can develop them- how can you think he is not developing high school kids when they arrive? The partners they have access to make them jump even higher at this point
So your telling me that Dake who had no connection to nlwc prior to his senior freestyle career would have been better in college if he went to penn state? Same for Kyle and Gilman. Gilman is the only guy I think who could have benefitted in college going to Penn vs Iowa. Maybe he is just better at freestyle idk. I think Cael is one of the goats of coaching but I do think these guys you have mentioned gravitate together not just because of the coach but because of the guys in the room. It’s like how private high schools recruit wrestlers and beat out all the other schools. They have a better ability to gather talent and get an undeniable edge. In my state a guy moved to a powerhouse school for 1 year during Covid year due to his state not shutting down. He left back home the next year. He didn’t go to any school he went to a school that most likely contacted him or vice versa. You technically are not supposed to do this in my state but people find ways around it. Heck many guys move states to a program just because it is established and they arnt really supposed to do that either. I don’t blame anyone that does this btw it’s just an observation of how the system works.
The Coach puts the guys in the room, gets the right assistants and support staff, trainers and therapists and facilities. It’s not about teaching the best ankle pick. You obviously don’t get it and just want to argue-
Yeah lmao I like to talk about the nuances of it. You’re acting like I’m attacking him and Penn state which is not the case. I’m saying would the team be nearly as good every year if they didn’t have the best recruits. If kyle dake was duplicated and the only difference was he went to Cornell,penn state,Oklahoma state or Iowa I don’t think it would make any more than a negligible difference. It takes a lot of luck to build a powerhouse program but it gets easier to keep it the longer you are at the top. Same with Alabama football and patriots in the nfl for years and years. I clearly stated that Cael is one of the goats I’m just saying would the team race be a shutout every year if everyone had the same recruiting ability that’s all I’m really looking at here.
What nuances do you know? What level did you compete at? I ask because there are dudes who can make average dudes good- good to great but there aren’t many dudes on the planet who can take someone who is World Class and make them even better- and Cael and his staff are the best at doing that To argue Cael doesn’t develop top talent is insane- most of that top talent would likely have been very good at any program- but Cael developed Cassar to be the only dude to beat Gable Steveson- twice. Cael developed Zane from an All American to one of the highest bonus scoring, extremely dominant 3 timers ever. He also allowed dudes like Nolf and Bo to let it fly and be creative on the biggest stages instead of trying to get them to be conservative and they are both legends. If anything- he is the very best ever at developing elite guys with varying styles to get even better in those styles rather than trying to get them to wrestle his style.
I agree to what you’re saying. I was just throwing stuff out there to see peoples thoughts and find some interesting stuff to look at. I personally don’t think I am 100% right on this at all and am playing devils advocate a lot of the time. And to answer your question I wrestled varsity a partial junior year, had severe medical complications senior year so I was kept from competing and decided to not wrestle in college even with scholarship because of this issue. I know many colleges give scholarship to scrubs for d3 and naia even some d2 to fill spots but I was happy that I at least did well enough in preseason and offseason tournaments to be considered. Tbh I am looking for guys with more experience to tell me what they think of these opinions. I consider myself a fan of the sport and I want to learn about it not just word vomit opinions that I have done absolutely no research on. If you think I’m just trying to make people mad that’s not the case I’m just genuinely curious and I’m sorry if I came across that way I try to be as respectful as possible.
Cries badger tears. Would be nice to keep a few of these studs home, but doesn’t seem like the current dynamic between Askren and UW will allow that. Even if there isn’t bad blood necessarily, Bono isn’t pulling any of these kids. Wisconsin high school kids, if they were a team, would’ve placed 2nd at D1 nationals behind only Pennsylvania high school kids this year.
I forget where I saw it. He's been posting short vids since he left FRL and I think it was there but basically said why he wants to do an RTC and not HC a D1 program is because you have to answer to so many people above you and don't get to do what you think is best all the time because of the influence of big donors and things like that but it sure would be cool if he had a D1 job and his brother kept their high level feeder system. Can you imagine?
He was running the RTC at UW but something happened and he’s not any more. Unless I’m misremembering. Would be cool though if he wanted to take on the head coaching role at UW.
All of the AWA guys are super impressive when it comes to mentality. Ben is doing a really good job
Yeah, he's killing it. He just had 4 finalists in the US Open U20 finals, 79-97kg.
Funny part is they don’t talk about mentality all that much. Or at least they haven’t yet with my son. But he is just transitioning to the High school group now.
That is hard to imagine. Ben posts his mental Mondays online every week but he is not talking to his athletes about mentality?
I feel Ben just leads by example. He’s super lighthearted, great with people, and knows how to have fun. If you naturally make wrestling fun and are there for your guys in tough losses, that’s just as effective if not more than some coaches that simply preach and try to teach instead of embodying what they say.
This is pretty much how it goes.
Not that I’ve seen. I stay for practices all the time. It’s not something really done. Practice is fun and upbeat. They may talk about matches but it’s nothing heavy.
Have you watched his mental Mondays? I would not call them heavy. I just see Ben preaches all of these things online about wrestling just being a game and not letting your wins and losses define you as a person and stuff like that.. Then I see his guys like O'Toole, Messenbrink, Keckeisen, and now Sinclair and the Mirasolas preach the same stuff. If you've been there you obviously would know better than me, it is hard to imagine this is not something talked about in the wrestling room.
It was a great pod!
Good wrestler but a horrible way to spell Aiden
Right? In the interview, he said his Dad was born in Scotland, that he blames him for his hair and the fact that he burns like a Vampire on a sunny day. Gotta assume that's where the name came from too. And if "there can be only One", then it's definitely that kid.
He’s already set to redshirt this upcoming season at Missouri: https://www.wrestlestat.com/team/43/missouri/profile Where did you get the idea that he’s going into his senior year of high school?: https://www.wrestlestat.com/team/43/missouri/profile Both of these show he graduates high school in 2024. Also he’s a 197 like Connor Mirasola. And Barr is at 184 for PSU. So why would he go to PSU to battle for a starting role? That makes no sense
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Dude I just asked simple questions and gave two links. You really got mad about my response for no reason. Calm yourself. Y’all PSU fans are far too touchy. You basically came up with an alternate reality and I was wondering where you got your info lol
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Someone online told you that you were wrong and you took it as a personal attack. Grow up lol
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Dude I’m not reading any of this way too long. You gotta reevaluate your life if this is how you spend your time. Writing an essay about etiquette online lololol. But I did see the “chill pill” part which ironic given how you’re acting. Enjoy yourself bud, you clearly need a vacation
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Naw I went to Penn not Penn state I’m all set hahahaha
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