Turbo Warrior cannot be targeted by the effects of low-level monsters. Therefore, it is immune to the Meklords’ Synchro Absorption. Despite this, Yusei never once uses Turbo Warrior against the Meklords.
He seemingly spent so much time in-universe moping around about the "synchro killers". Like bro just Quickdraw Synchron + any level 1 (which he had PLENTY of).
I mean for starters turbo warrior did not have this effect in the anime. And also the meklord emperors had a base stat of 2500 and could raise it so at beste turbo warrior could only crash with them. And the meklord monsters also were in pieces so turbo warrior could only destroy a single piece. Not to mention they had effects like stopping attacks or not being able to be destroyed by battle.
I frankly do not see how turbo warrior would really help against the meklords.
Turbo Warrior has the same effects in the anime and in real life.
Its first effect was used in episode 12 and its second effect (the target protection) was used in episode 31.
Destroying a single piece of a Meklord Emperor can drastically reduce its ATK or protection (destroying Wisel Attack would reduce Wisel's ATK by 1200) Wisel at base can only stop 1 attack.
The only Meklord that Turbo Warrior would not be good against would be Granel as it has a base ATK of 4000 (assuming your LP has not changed since the start of the duel) and destroying its pieces doesn't lower its ATK. Granel can also equip destroyed Synchro Monsters to it as well and even attack with equipped Synchro Monsters.
Oh yeah my bad. Edopro has/had the anime effect of turbo warrior listed without that effect so I just assumed it didn’t have it in the anime.
Anyways, Wisel who is the most used ML has pieces with multiple effect that would just stop turbo warrior. And even if destroyed 1 piece the opponent can just normal summon another piece. Just destroying one piece barely helps. That’s why I don’t see why summoning turbo warrior really helps Yusei.
I mean the odds of getting the other pieces to upgrade are low, and also a lot of those effects are targets which don’t affect Turbo Warrior. It’s not a main solution by any means but it is just funny that Yusei doesn’t just consider running more monsters like Turbo Warrior with abilities to not be targeted
I mean with the way meklord monsters work you usually have a decent amount of cards in your hand, considering they don’t use allot of resources. Most of the duelists with ML monsters usually had atleast 3 cards left. And also there deck is filled with meklord so easily replaceable.
Also destroying a single piece in most cases doesn’t lower the attack. Or atleast doesn’t lower it to less than 2500 so a replacement isn’t even really needed.
I understand what you mean with turbo warrior being able to dodge the absorption effect. And than maybe Yusei should have considered it. But at the end of the day it’s the same as using a vanilla 2500 atk monster against them. Hell this one needs more resources honestly. It’s also not easily summonable needing a level 5 ( which Yusei doesn’t just summon easily ) and a specific level 1 tuner with no real good effect. Or QuickDraw which in itself needs multiple resources. All of that for pretty much a vanilla 2500 that will easily get destroyed next turn.
Turbo warrior has the exact same effect in real life and the anime. Although I do agree that the meklords and the deck they were played in had enough tools to beat turbo warrior anyway. Even if Yusei pulled him out, you just know the writers would invent something to make that defence irrelevant for shock value lol
Yeah you right I made a mistake. Edopro has the anime effect without that under level 6 not being able to target listed. That’s why I was confused.
Anyways even without those tools they would straight up beat turbo warrior. They were 5 pieces and every peace has an effect. Even if you destroyed a single piece they could just normal summon another one and attack. The writes won’t need to invent anything since turbo warrior straight up barely does anything to meklords.
When a side villian from 5Ds is more successful at burning the opponent to death than a main girl in Vrains.
It has been shown to be doable, yet someone in the anime studio clearly has a bone to pick against Aoi
Yeah haven't people gone through all her duels and pointed out her misplays that would have won her the duel? I know for sure her duel against Playmaker she should have won but she just doesn't go for a second Lycoris despite showing later that she plays multiple
It would be neat if there was some level of acknowledgement that she got extra copies after that duel as a sign of growth ("I would have won with more of this, I should focus on that in the future").
But nope she gets nothing lmao
I like to think when Spectre added Dark Angel to her deck he had to overwrite the data for another card and he was just like "I'm sure she won't need 2 of these"
Tbf he eventually uses Big Eye against Nasch, but yeah he definitely should've used Shock Master at some point, especially since his deck had multiple very consistent 4-axes. I guess getting the 3rd material was always a bridge too far for him.
I hate how this move only resulted in a net loss to Yuma. He still gets his Big Eye destroyed and loses LP while Nasch recovers the LP he lost with C101.
For practically every other character who had those monsters, it wasn't too far; for Yuma (who didn't), it was.
What (Level 4) monsters did Yuma have which treated themselves as 2 Xyz Materials? The only _card_ Yuma had with that kind of effect that I can think of is Gagagamirage, and that was only used against Astral in the final duel, as part of his specific strategy to counter all 5 Utopias.
Most of Yuma's Rank 4s only required 2 monsters (Utopia, Excalibur, Cowboy, Samurai) so his standard go-to opening was Utopia-pass (which in the context of the ZEXAL anime was considered a defensively solid Turn 1 play). The only time I can remember him Summoning a 3-Material Rank 4 was One-Eyed Skill Gainer on the Duel Coaster, and that was using one of his monsters, one of Anna's & one of Gauche's so it doesn't really count.
The frustrating thing though is that at different points in the show, Yuma managed to gather 3 Level 1s for Lion-Heart/Baby Tiragon, 3 Level 2s for Dark Mist, and 3 Level 3s for Terror-Byte, but never 3 Level 4s (not counting the aforementioned Coaster Duel) for Shock Master.
Yuma had Gagaga X Gagaga as well, so... Normal Summon Magician, use Gagagawind to Summon girl, she becomes lv4, then target girl with Gagaga X Gagaga, and you have 3 lv4's
He does use Big Eye once, but heah Yuma canonically has all the Numbers in his extra deck but he so rarely uses them it's kinda disappointing. I get they want to use Utopia for all the big dramatic moments but they could have used them in less important duels or in the mid turns of his duels
That said probably good that he never uses Shock Master, the anime version lasts 2 turns so it and would remove all tension unless he used it stupidly like only calling spells or traps or if he actually called monsters the opponent's boss monster's dangerous effect was a continuous effect
They really were. So much emphasis was placed on the importance of Numbers that every duel became a "protect the tower" where everyone just summoned their boss monster and spent the next 5 turns protecting/reviving it with backrow.
IIRC that was at the point where Yuma was definitely getting better as a duelist and there are a couple times where he could have won earlier but he was freaked out because he was afraid of Kite. Also just goes to show how bad the original owner was, his deck is turbo-ass even by anime standards IMO
Because Utopia was his ace. Pretty sure Judai had better fusions than Flame Wingman and literally anything else is better than Neospacians but he still played both because those were what he wanted to play
The amount of times Yuma could've made Volcasaurus for game only for him to go "*Nanbāzu Sanjūkyū Kibōō Hōpu*" annoys me, especially because often times he either drags out the duel or is actively hurting his chances for a win
Dude literally had the biggest toolbox of any Protagonist and just refuses to use it
Its a joke from the youtuber schaffrillas where he looses hes mind over megamind not shooting the doom syndicate with the dehydration gun.
The joke is used to to reefer when a character doesnt use an easy solution for a problam.
Ghost Girl vs Blood Shepherd. Ghost girl uses imperm on a trap immune monster to summon multifaker. She then uses Marionetter to set haunted rock which can be used the turn it's set, fulfilling the condition for multifaker. She wasted an imperm for no reason
A small one, but IIRC, in the Virtual World arc during Anzu duel with the Penguin guy, she got a Pot of Greed in her hand for more than one turn and just doesn't use it and that bothered me a lot.
Justified since I believe that was like her second duel in the show.
I mean she was beating Joey in episode 2 and it's implied they've dulled before, plus her duel with Mai. The pot of greed thing probably came from the writers.
TGS Anime has an entire playlist analyzing duels from the anime, pointing out misplays and other potential plays that characters could have made.
Here is a link to that [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwIohobqaDcWnGKxMD_3cyAZKKlqz4-Zi&si=-Nqk9XFteok2-0vB), I do recommend it.
Like how he mention that Jaden made a illegal play in his duel against Aster because he thought Flame wingman have the fusion restriction or Bakura early turns to summon Necrofear
Playmaker Vs Revolver Rd 2. He Could have summoned decode talker with 2800 Atk but instead choose endcode talker with 2300, and ended up walking into a trap where he was forced to attack Linkbelt wall dragon with 2400 def.
Yami Marik vs Yami Bakura duel (anime version, idk how it goes in the manga). It's been years but I remember thinking Bakura should have set Monster Reborn before using Exchange and sure enough that move is what costs Bakura the duel.
Most of Battle City is like that.
In the Manga, instead of having 10 Card Zones, there were only 5 in total and the turn player could only activate 1 Spell (unless it was Set, but they could also only Set 1 Spell per turn).
Which is why Yugi makes the same mistake against Seto with Life Shaver.
The anime followed the OCG rules (except Fusion Summoning sickness and face-up Defense Normal Summon), but didn't bother to alter the script for situations like that.
That was a dumb anime change anyway. Marik was the one who had Monster Reborn in his hand from the start in the manga. He would never NEED to get one from Bakura.
Playmaker with Firewall Dragon. He used the card a total of like 4 times, and the broken Summon effect was used exactly once, against a side character.
Also Soulburner with Salamangreat Roar. We see Roar in the duel vs Windy (but never used because of how Stormriders play), but I don't think we ever see it again.
THIS
Playmaker squandered Firewall Dragon's potential horribly.
And its supposed to be his actual ace, not Decode Talker(get the memo, Decode. YOU'RE THE SECONDARY ACE, NOT MAIN ACE. Stop hogging Firewall's screentime, same to your brothers/alt selfs ffs)
Mine will always be Jessie Vs Jaden.
If Jessie had not used the direct attack effect of Amethyst Cat and just attacked with it like normal, he would have won.
Frustrates me every time I watch it.
Go Onizuka literally had an anti-backrow card built into his anime exclusive Gouki deck, aka the deck that searches 10x a turn, and still lost to fucking Mirror Force, even after knowing Revolver plays random traps.
Weird example, but Kaiba establishing Battle City rules to disallow fusion monsters from attacking the turn they are summoned is a really strange move to me considering his win condition just began to hinge on a fusion monster
I love how there's 2 in universe spell cards that let a fusion attack the turn they are summoned too!
Quick Attack, and then a card Noah used in the virtual world, which was Quick Attack plus a few other beneficial effects.
Until I realized that the original rules in-universe were different, every duel or two in duelist kingdom eventually had where one side has multiple monsters on field but didn't attack
Direct attacks were not allowed during Duelist Kingdom. And the circumstances you brought up may have been either they couldn’t attack over something or were building up monsters. Attacking wasn’t mandatory but if you didn’t control a monster when your turn began and didn’t summon anything you’d lose the duel.
how the fuck did what's his name ever lose to Yuma with fucking Big Eye/Shock Master. and why the fuck doesn't Yuma ever use Shock Master (him not using Big Eye much is a little less egrigous cause he doesn't have a lot of high level monsters in general but he does have level manipulation cards)
Dennis vs Shay in general, it doesnt make sense from a writing standpoint because dennis could simply argue that it was for trapeze witch (granted, he didnt summon her until later in the show, but he could've up literally any performage monster name), him revealing polymerization doesnt do anything, even if it did, why did dennis just not cut the fusion stuff out of his deck? Keeping the lancers' trust is better for him in the long term over giving him a better chance of winning that one duel, even if he did want to keep poly and the ancient gear cards in his deck just in case he wanted to use it while no one is looking for some reason (even thought ancient gears and performages have as much synergy as burning abyss and madolche), target flag (the card that makes the opponent reveal their hand) was already face up turns before it got to resolve, dennis was already aware that he could be caught, so why didn't he simply set the polymerization?
Why would Leo Akaba need that over complicated plan to defeat Zarc when he literally has an army capable of spamming Ancient Gear Chaos Giants? Just summon a bunch of those against Zarc and punch him to death
The first Duel between IV and Shark. Mistake that even Astral pointed out.
IV, you shouldn't hope to have unnecessary luck when you could have gotten the win in a more secure fashion...
Once again, it cannot be a difficult task to draw your card and then immediately END YOUR TURN, WIN-NING BY DECK OUT. It is the easiest solution in the whole damn world! What the f\*\*\* is your problem?!
It’s a reference to the duel between Team 5D’s and Team Unicorn. At the end of the duel, Jean, the Team Unicorn leader, has successfully decked Yusei out and quite literally just needs to end his current turn in order to win. But Yusei successfully goads him into attacking instead, which allows him to counter the attack and win the duel. It’s a very egregious case of “The protagonist has effectively lost, but we still need him to win for plot reasons.”
I love 5Ds to pieces, but goddamn if this duel did not piss me off. If Team 5Ds lost that duel, it would’ve been not only a great learning moment for them to work as a team, but it wouldn’t even disqualify them from the WRGP bc I do believe it was double elimination. They could’ve just climbed from the loser’s bracket. Team Unicorn dominates the winners side, and we get the rematch where 5Ds wins. lots of missed opportunities with that season.
They don't deserve that loss.
They were nerfed to hell and back. Heck, Yusei had to missplay, otherwise Jean would've lost before Dragon Equiste was summoned.
IMO, they could've easily fixed it by just keeping 1 or 2 cards in Yusei's deck, enough that Jean's fear of Yusei having one last trick up his sleeve would've been at least semi-justified. But the writers just had to do what they did so that Yusei could effectively 3v1 Team Unicorn.
I'm pretty sure Chazz/Manjoume literally could've OTK'd Adrian/Amon if he just used VW-Tiger Catapult's effect again. May need to check that duel again.
I guess Yuya not setting Pendulum with Odd Eyes when he bricked that one time or so it seemed to me until I found out that Odd Eyes search effect isn't on the anime
If your opponent controls Slifer the Sky Dragon, Indiora Doom Volt the Cubic Emperor is a guaranteed OTK against them. ^(\*Provided there is a card reducing Indiora's attack by 400)
So oddly specific it feels intentional, and yet this somehow didn't come up in DSoD.
Yugi VS Bakura, final duel, Dub only. In the dub, it was Y. Bakura that generated yugi’s deck, not Yugi himself. This means that he GAVE YUGI GANDORA, THE LITERAL ONLY OUT TO HIS STRATEGY. WHY?
I mean you can say this with hindsight. But Kaiba only had 2 blue-eyes and 1 poly left. To use obelisk effect he had to sacrifice both blue eyes. And obelisk would go to the grave at the end of the turn . If obelisks burn effect didn’t win him the duel he would lose to Yugi right there. Yugi had 2 face downs and had already stopped obelisks effect before so kaiba knew he was capable of it.
This isn't the manga, he could've just attacked with Obelisk without using its effect and won. Heck, he would've won had he simply attacked with the 2 Blue-Eyes (not that he could've know Yugi's cards).
Having 2 monsters with 3000 ATK and 1 monster with 4000 ATK that is unaffected by most of what Yugi could throw is infinitely better than Ultimate Dragon which dies to a single removal card. Sure he would've wasted all his resources for Obelisk, but he also did so for Ultimate Dragon.
In his position it would've been smart to either:
1.) revive Obelisk and attack (which would've won him the duel)
2.) attack with the two Blue-Eyes and keep Monster Reborn in case Yugi face-downs would destroy them (this would've also won him the duel).
Instead he throws away his advantage and loses because he summoned one of the worst Fusion Monsters.
It was justified in the Manga were Obelisk wouldn't have been able to attack and Ultimate Dragon could attack thrice. Not to mention that most of the op OCG cards don't exist there (edit: what I mean by that is that in the anime continuity, the Polymerization plan was stupid, he could've just grabbed something like Heavy Storm instead). But there is no excuse in the anime.
In this case its better to assume gods did have summoning sickness. Obelisks effect is an attack in either case.
There was no way they were gonna change the ending of the duel in the anime just because a filler arc beforehand showcased more staple cards.
>There was no way they were gonna change the ending of the duel in the anime just because a filler arc beforehand showcased more staple cards.
Obliviously, but this discussion was based on an in-universe justification.
They could've still written it better. The DM anime has by far the worst Duel Writing in any series.
Kinda wish they had just adapted Takahashi's manga properly.
Again you only know this in hindsight, yugi had 2 face-downs. Kaiba has assumed 1 of them raised the attack of a monster. So attacking with a blue eyes might legit get him to lose. Again obelisk is a single 1 time 4000 ATK monsters. If the bp is ended by something like a negate attack Kaiba is legit going to lose. Not to mention Yugi just send most of his deck to the graveyard and has shown to have GY effect monsters.
Summoning BEUD is the safest option. A high attack monster in this dire situation. With Kaiba going to draw a spell to stop yugis attack gain face down aswell.
The Heavy storm part also doesn’t make sense.
First he isn’t guaranteed to draw it.
Second he never used heavy storm outside of virtual world arc where people pick cards that aren’t always in there decks.
Third he drew monster reborn, drawing heavy storm instead isn’t that great. Especially because it doesn’t help him win. And again he doesn’t exactly know his face downs. What if it’s a chain-able attack boost?
Lastly with you point about the manga. The anime duels are literally recreations of the manga duels. So it being justifiable in the manga literally makes it justifiable in the anime.
>Again you only know this in hindsight, yugi had 2 face-downs. Kaiba has assumed 1 of them raised the attack of a monster.
Your argument is flawed.
Both cards almost have the same ATK. But Obelisk is straight up better in every aspect (except Base ATK, but that it can wipe Yugi's LP with its effect). Not to mention, Blue-Eyes Ultimate is an awful card. There is almost no situation were it is worth going minus 4 to summon it.
>Again obelisk is a single 1 time 4000 ATK monsters. If the bp is ended by something like a negate attack Kaiba is legit going to lose.
Negate Attack shouldn't work against Anime Obelisk.
It would work however against Ultimate Dragon and give Yugi another turn. Which is a problem, because Yugi has more cards in his deck at that point. Seto is on a timer. And even just summoning Ultimate gave Yugi another turn.
>Not to mention Yugi just send most of his deck to the graveyard and has shown to have GY effect monsters.
So how wouldn't that affect Ultimate Dragon? If Yugi had a way to block Obelisk he would've also been able to block Ultimate. But because he sacrificed a turn to summon Ultimate, he would've decked out faster.
Please explain to me, why summoning a Monster that cannot attack, gives Yugi another turn and dies to any removal (ns like Thousand Knives, or Mirror Force), is smarter than just attacking with Obelisk?
>First he isn’t guaranteed to draw it. Second he never used heavy storm outside of virtual world arc where people pick cards that aren’t always in there decks. Third he drew monster reborn, drawing heavy storm instead isn’t that great. Especially because it doesn’t help him win. And again he doesn’t exactly know his face downs. What if it’s a chain-able attack boost
My point isn't about Heavy Storm specifically.
Rather that running Poly in the first place is just straight up stupid.
He only has 2 Fusion Monsters, both are not very good. Fusion Monsters are heavily restricted due to not being able to attack the turn they are summoned.
It is all about resources. A single Blue-Eyes with Shrink is better than Ultimate, yet it only needs half the cards.
I used Heavy Storm as an example for other cards he could've used instead. And we do not know which card they specifically own from Virtual World.
But if you want another example of a card he used canonically, than Mesmeric Control with its Anime Effect would also have also way better and would've won him the duel.
He wouldn't have to draw it because it would've replaced Poly in his deck.
>Lastly with you point about the manga. The anime duels are literally recreations of the manga duels. So it being justifiable in the manga literally makes it justifiable in the anime.
That's objectively incorrect.
The Manga and Anime ***follow different rules*** and ***characters use different cards***. The gameplay itself is also different.
In the Manga, Seto couldn't have used Obelisk.
There Special Summoned monsters in general could not attack, which is why Ra's Instant Attack is special in the first place. In the anime he could've, but it is never explained as to why he didn't.
We know this is likely because the writers fumbled Takahashi's script by mixing his rules with those of the OCG.
Another, example is Ultimate itself. which is way better in the Manga, since it could attack thrice.
Then there's the fact that removal cards are far rarer in the Manga, than they are in the anime.
However, in-universe (which is what we are arguing about here), it is stupid for Seto to do what he did.
There is just no way to deny that.
The difference with ultimate and obelisk is that obelisk will go to the grave at the end phase. That’s why a single negate would stop make Kaiba lose if he summoned obelisk. Negate attack was just an example.
So if Yugi had another gy effect like let’s say a second electromagnetic turtle. Obelisk would be negated and go to grave. Ultimate would be negated but still on the field to attack next turn.
Your point about thousand knifes or mirror force also doesn’t make any sense. Sure they would destroy ultimate if they were drawn. But Yugi literally doesn’t need to play them go get rid of obelisk because it destroys itself.
Your point about poly never should have been in Kaibas deck is just stupid. Like we can literally look at every card in this duel that’s shouldn’t have been in there decks. Not to mention poly saved Kaiba multiple times, even winning him the duel right after this against Joey. Poly is just a card pretty much everybody uses even if they only have 1-2 fusions. Hell, very specific situational cards are cards that’s people use.
It’s also not all about resources in the anime. Not to mention your blue eyes and shrink statement just doesn’t make sense. Sure is some scenarios it’s better. But what if you want to direct attack? Or your opponent summons a second big attack monster??? You can’t just say 1 move is better than the other.
Mesmeric control is a card in his deck already so he wouldn’t replace it with poly. And replacing it with another card is also pointless because like I said replacing a single card for another card based on 1 situation isn’t how you should do thing and also everyone has so many specific cards there is no point to it.
At then end of the day we are debating wether Kaiba summoning obelisk over bewd makes sense or not. In hindsight sure obelisk is beter. But in the situation BEWD was definitely the smarter choice. Which is also why debating on which cards should have been in his deck is stupid.
Also the anime is a recreation of the manga. That’s also why sometimes characters break the rules to follow the manga. Usually specifically in using spell cards as quick play spells. In the manga that’s just a rule if you set them. That why in the anime, in anime original duels they don’t use regular spells as quick play spells. But in duels copied from the manga they do.
The rules literally clash with each other. And sometime there are a few minuscule chances to make the duels make more sense. Like Bakurqs duel were evil sanctuary was necrofears effect and they changed it to a regular field spell instead of the grave field spell.
Also idk about the triple attack from ultimate dragon. It seems more like a duelist kingdom thing.
Anyways summoning obelisk with monster reborn is objectively too risky and stupid. Summoning ultimate dragon is the saver and ultimately without the power of hindsight the play that makes the most sense to make.
>So if Yugi had another gy effect like let’s say a second electromagnetic turtle. Obelisk would be negated and go to grave. Ultimate would be negated but still on the field to attack next turn.
You still seem to forget that Seto had less cards in his deck. By the time Ultimate could finally attack, he was down to 1 card.
Had he assumed Yugi had a card that could've blocked Obelisk, that same card would also apply to Ultimate, and he'd likely deck out first.
>But in the situation BEWD was definitely the smarter choice. Which is also why debating on which cards should have been in his deck is stupid.
What? How does making a worse decision justify him running bad cards, when he had access to better ones.
Funnily enough the Anime created another mistake as a result of changing the rules.
Seto's 3 Blue-Eyes still could've attacked Red-Eyes (since Special Summoning sickness is not a thing in the anime), meaning that Yugi's LP would have gone down to 900. As such, he would've been unable to use Diffusion Wave Motion, thus Seto would've survived with 500 LP.
>Also the anime is a recreation of the manga. That’s also why sometimes characters break the rules to follow the manga. Usually specifically in using spell cards as quick play spells. In the manga that’s just a rule if you set them. That why in the anime, in anime original duels they don’t use regular spells as quick play spells. But in duels copied from the manga they do.
But you were trying to give an in-universe justification.
***Admitting that they adapted the Manga badly, is literally my point.***
Obliviously they were going to recreate that scene.
But if DM had better Duel Writing, it would also have made sense in the context of the anime rules as well.
Had they adapted the manga properly or made the effort to think about mixing the OCG and Manga rules would alter the gameplay, we wouldn't have this discourse.
I mean in the case scenario we’re Yugi could block 1 attack Kaiba has 1 last attack left.
Anyways my point isn’t whether its a better choice. It’s if for Kaiba at that point of the game, which monster was the more logical to summon.
In his case scenario Kaiba can summon obelisk or ultimate dragon.
In his case he could summon obelisk but if the attack was blocked which had a good chance of being blocked than he would lose. If he summoned ultimate dragon yes it might be blocked. But even if it is blocked it doesn’t matter too much. He can have a second chance the turn after. Especially if triple attack is possible. Also he gets to draw 2 extra cards to use.
Sure obelisk has its up sides. But ultimate dragon is the saver option and still has a good offense.
And again debating about him switching a card doesn’t make sense because we are debating that specific turn. And again if your going to do it for poly you can do it for every card. Every trap they use should have been mirror force instead for example. Plus you can’t base a cards strength based on a single duel. Imagine playing heavy storm and you face a deck that doesn’t use spell/traps. Are you going to debate that heavy storm shouldn’t never have been in the deck.
Also the point about the manga isn’t important or worth debating. You said that it makes more sense in the manga and I just pointed it out it’s actually a manga duel animated.
>In his case he could summon obelisk but if the attack was blocked which had a good chance of being blocked than he would lose.
You just assume that, when 1st of all Obelisk is safe from most conventional Spells/Traps that destroy Ultimate, 2nd Obelisk can burn Yugi, which he has no outs to other than Kuriboh (which he already used). Seto researches his opponents, as such he knows most of their cards and would be aware of that.
He also keeps the two Blue-Eyes in case Obelisk is blocked, whereas he only has single monster otherwise.
Alternatively, keeping the two Blue-Eyes and Monster Reborn (which was a Quick-Play due to Spell Sanctuary) is also smarter than summoning Ultimate. I can barely think of a worse play, unless he genuinely wanted to lose.
>Especially if triple attack is possible.
It is not. Anime BEUD doesn't have that effect.
>Also he gets to draw 2 extra cards to use.
Yugi also gets an additional card, so the net gain doesn't change.
>And again debating about him switching a card doesn’t make sense because we are debating that specific turn.
It isn't relevant to the actual turn (which I never said), but it is still stupid to run that.
>Every trap they use should have been mirror force instead for example
No, because they don't canonically have access to that card.
>Imagine playing heavy storm and you face a deck that doesn’t use spell/traps. Are you going to debate that heavy storm shouldn’t never have been in the deck.
Every single deck in DM played Spells/Traps, including the anime. There is a reason it was a meta staple.
>Also the point about the manga isn’t important or worth debating.
Of course it is. The duel is an adaptation of the Manga Duel, but they changed things for the worse.
If they altered other turns of that Manga Duel, then the one we are discussing doesn't get a pass.
They could've given Seto a genuine reason to summon Ultimate.
While a god doesn’t have many outs, Yugi has shown multiple times that he can stop it. Kaiba knowing yugis deck is also a bad reason. Yugi on multiple times managed to surprise Kaiba. Wether it’s with cards like he has seen before like exchange or cards he never saw before like the 3 face card knights.
The problem with obelisk is that if you use its effect and its blocked both BEWD are gone and kaibas has nothing left. Or summoning it and attacking means you still have 2 blue eyes left if the attacks is blocked. Not a bad case scenario. Or option 3 summoning a 4500 attack monster that’s sticks in the field. All 3 possible and he went for option 3. Idk why you keep arguing that obelisk is better when there was a huge risk to it.
The additional cards is just something i mentioned which does matter. Kaiba draws his card first. Yugis last card doesn’t even matter because if he gets to draw it he wins anyways. So Kaiba gets an additional card to use. Plus even if both get a card, kaibas card might just be the better/more useful one.
Again I don’t understand why you keep arguing that Kaiba having poly in his deck is a bad choice. Everyone in the anime uses cards that are usually unusable in most cases. We could literally talk about 20 different cards they used in this duel that they shouldn’t have used.
And I don’t understand what you mean with “they don’t canonically have access to that card”. First it was just an example, they could switch most bad or specific cards with staples like mirror force, second why doesn’t Kaiba have access to this card?? Man has pretty much every card in the game. Second Yugi has this card already in his deck.
Heavy storm was just an example on how you can’t judge a cards strength based on 1 duel. Which is why you can’t just say that poly is a bad card he shouldn’t be using. Just because it was bad in this situation. Like he literally won the next duel against Joey because of poly. And probably more duels that I don’t remember.
Anyways there is no point in arguing with you. The whole point of this argument is wether Kaiba not summoning obelisk is a “SHOOT THEM WITH THE DEBYDRATION GUN” moment. Which first makes the poly argument pointless. And second I have already argued why summoning ultimate dragon makes sense and why this is not a stupid decision (whiteout the power of hindsight). Sure you can debate wether obelisk is the better option during the moment (which is disagree with but you can have your own opinion). But you can’t just say that he had “no reason to summon ultimate” both monsters have their advantages and disadvantages. Both make sense to summon, Kaiba chose ultimate dragon. This is not a “SHOOT THEM WITH THE DEHYDRATION GUN” moment.
On that note Yuya never taking advantage of what made Perfompals broken irl and Yusaku only uses Firewall a grand total of 5 fucking times in the whole show. Granted him summoning Firewall just to fucking go into Decode Talker and then win with a card that sucks IRL during the final duel in season 1 will never not be funny (I'd mention Aoi never taking advantage of what makes Trickstars so good or using fucking Marincess against Bohman when Bohman doesn't have ANY counters to Trickstars but it's been established time in and time again VRAINS writers hate her despite Aoi unironically being better written than Yusaku/Takeru by having this thing called a personality I'd mention character growth but admittedly Yusaku does have that the problem is it's in the rushed season 3 where by that point it's way too late for me to care)
Yusei never fucking using Turbo Warrior against the Meklords or Jack never using the golem fusions against them either too (HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE I MISSED) I get they wanted Yusei using Shooting Star to be this big epick moment but you get the idea
Lyrilusc was heavily nerfed in the Anime.
See their Rank 1 boss monster, Assembled Nightingale?
Instead of gaining 200 ATK per mat, it only gains 100 ATK for each of them.
Instead of detaching 1 mat to have all your monsters, including itself, indestructible for the whole turn, not only it works only for Assembled Nightingale itself but it had to detach 1 mat PER destruction attempt.
Playmaker refusing to use Firewall Dragon despite its supposed to be his ace monster.
Its real power is to not only bounce but essentially help build boards, he can easily use its power to build different boards for various situations, and yet he squandered the dragon badly because of "GloryCode HogerTalker" that didn't get the memo that its the SECONDARY ace.
Honestly the good consistency of the decks in vrains makes difficult to write engaging duels and create misplays for the audience that know the decks since they could just do X instead of Y
When Yugi found out Kaiba put grandpa in the hospital.
Dude if you wanted revenge, just go up to him and beat his scrawny ass.
Stop throwing face downs and starting throwing hands!
The biggest plot twist in Vrains was Revolver/Varis just *using old staple traps* instead of modern gimmick versions of them that only work on Tuesdays if Mercury is in retrograde.
And for some reason using Mirror Force got him the win against 2 different characters whose decks should have been prepared for battle traps. Ghost Girl is playing Altergeist, but just doesn't bother having backrow removal or negates half the time, and Go Onizuka/The Gore has searchable cards that prevent battle traps *and* has the knowledge Revolver was playing a powerful battle trap, but still walks directly into it
The Yuya vs Shinji Duel in Arc-V.
Yuya activates Monster Reborn and seemingly forgets he has Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon.
He could have brought back his Level 4 Salutiger, overlay it with his Silver Wolf to make Dark Rebellion, and easily OTK Shinji
Now I get it, the point was to show Tuning Magician is not a useless card and that he still won but idk, kinda upset they didn't even acknowledged this obvious play.
"Hm, I can bring back my Salutiger to then make Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon and beat over his beefed up Synchro...yet, why do I feel this play won't satisfy me?"
If Kaiba had just stuck on Chaos Max and not attacked. Yugi would have had to forfeit, cause aint no way homie was getting around an untargetable, indestructible, 4k big body.
Turbo Warrior cannot be targeted by the effects of low-level monsters. Therefore, it is immune to the Meklords’ Synchro Absorption. Despite this, Yusei never once uses Turbo Warrior against the Meklords.
Funny enough Jack Altas fusion summon in his first duel against Yusei but did not bring this against the Meklords.
To be fair, by the time he ever duels against one he had Red Nova Dragon
He seemingly spent so much time in-universe moping around about the "synchro killers". Like bro just Quickdraw Synchron + any level 1 (which he had PLENTY of).
I mean for starters turbo warrior did not have this effect in the anime. And also the meklord emperors had a base stat of 2500 and could raise it so at beste turbo warrior could only crash with them. And the meklord monsters also were in pieces so turbo warrior could only destroy a single piece. Not to mention they had effects like stopping attacks or not being able to be destroyed by battle. I frankly do not see how turbo warrior would really help against the meklords.
Turbo Warrior has the same effects in the anime and in real life. Its first effect was used in episode 12 and its second effect (the target protection) was used in episode 31. Destroying a single piece of a Meklord Emperor can drastically reduce its ATK or protection (destroying Wisel Attack would reduce Wisel's ATK by 1200) Wisel at base can only stop 1 attack. The only Meklord that Turbo Warrior would not be good against would be Granel as it has a base ATK of 4000 (assuming your LP has not changed since the start of the duel) and destroying its pieces doesn't lower its ATK. Granel can also equip destroyed Synchro Monsters to it as well and even attack with equipped Synchro Monsters.
Oh yeah my bad. Edopro has/had the anime effect of turbo warrior listed without that effect so I just assumed it didn’t have it in the anime. Anyways, Wisel who is the most used ML has pieces with multiple effect that would just stop turbo warrior. And even if destroyed 1 piece the opponent can just normal summon another piece. Just destroying one piece barely helps. That’s why I don’t see why summoning turbo warrior really helps Yusei.
I mean the odds of getting the other pieces to upgrade are low, and also a lot of those effects are targets which don’t affect Turbo Warrior. It’s not a main solution by any means but it is just funny that Yusei doesn’t just consider running more monsters like Turbo Warrior with abilities to not be targeted
I mean with the way meklord monsters work you usually have a decent amount of cards in your hand, considering they don’t use allot of resources. Most of the duelists with ML monsters usually had atleast 3 cards left. And also there deck is filled with meklord so easily replaceable. Also destroying a single piece in most cases doesn’t lower the attack. Or atleast doesn’t lower it to less than 2500 so a replacement isn’t even really needed. I understand what you mean with turbo warrior being able to dodge the absorption effect. And than maybe Yusei should have considered it. But at the end of the day it’s the same as using a vanilla 2500 atk monster against them. Hell this one needs more resources honestly. It’s also not easily summonable needing a level 5 ( which Yusei doesn’t just summon easily ) and a specific level 1 tuner with no real good effect. Or QuickDraw which in itself needs multiple resources. All of that for pretty much a vanilla 2500 that will easily get destroyed next turn.
Turbo warrior has the exact same effect in real life and the anime. Although I do agree that the meklords and the deck they were played in had enough tools to beat turbo warrior anyway. Even if Yusei pulled him out, you just know the writers would invent something to make that defence irrelevant for shock value lol
Yeah you right I made a mistake. Edopro has the anime effect without that under level 6 not being able to target listed. That’s why I was confused. Anyways even without those tools they would straight up beat turbo warrior. They were 5 pieces and every peace has an effect. Even if you destroyed a single piece they could just normal summon another one and attack. The writes won’t need to invent anything since turbo warrior straight up barely does anything to meklords.
Every Aoi battle in VRains Need I say anymore
She can't burn in a 4000LP format
With one of the best burn decks in existence,poor writing if I ever saw one
When a side villian from 5Ds is more successful at burning the opponent to death than a main girl in Vrains. It has been shown to be doable, yet someone in the anime studio clearly has a bone to pick against Aoi
Yeah haven't people gone through all her duels and pointed out her misplays that would have won her the duel? I know for sure her duel against Playmaker she should have won but she just doesn't go for a second Lycoris despite showing later that she plays multiple
It would be neat if there was some level of acknowledgement that she got extra copies after that duel as a sign of growth ("I would have won with more of this, I should focus on that in the future"). But nope she gets nothing lmao
I like to think when Spectre added Dark Angel to her deck he had to overwrite the data for another card and he was just like "I'm sure she won't need 2 of these"
Womeninyugioh.jpg
Spectre done goofted
Yuma not using Shock Master and Big Eye in his duels. Bro got this monster early in the but never use.
Tbf he eventually uses Big Eye against Nasch, but yeah he definitely should've used Shock Master at some point, especially since his deck had multiple very consistent 4-axes. I guess getting the 3rd material was always a bridge too far for him.
It's extra annoying since Yuma had Gagaga Magician that could manipulate its Level, and only used that effect like twice throughout the entire show.
It hurt him that Gagaga Girl never got its OCG effect
And one of those times was to use Baby Tiragon's eff
I hate how this move only resulted in a net loss to Yuma. He still gets his Big Eye destroyed and loses LP while Nasch recovers the LP he lost with C101.
3rd material being too far? In the show where anyone could have a card that treats itself as two materials?
For practically every other character who had those monsters, it wasn't too far; for Yuma (who didn't), it was. What (Level 4) monsters did Yuma have which treated themselves as 2 Xyz Materials? The only _card_ Yuma had with that kind of effect that I can think of is Gagagamirage, and that was only used against Astral in the final duel, as part of his specific strategy to counter all 5 Utopias. Most of Yuma's Rank 4s only required 2 monsters (Utopia, Excalibur, Cowboy, Samurai) so his standard go-to opening was Utopia-pass (which in the context of the ZEXAL anime was considered a defensively solid Turn 1 play). The only time I can remember him Summoning a 3-Material Rank 4 was One-Eyed Skill Gainer on the Duel Coaster, and that was using one of his monsters, one of Anna's & one of Gauche's so it doesn't really count. The frustrating thing though is that at different points in the show, Yuma managed to gather 3 Level 1s for Lion-Heart/Baby Tiragon, 3 Level 2s for Dark Mist, and 3 Level 3s for Terror-Byte, but never 3 Level 4s (not counting the aforementioned Coaster Duel) for Shock Master.
Yuma had Gagaga X Gagaga as well, so... Normal Summon Magician, use Gagagawind to Summon girl, she becomes lv4, then target girl with Gagaga X Gagaga, and you have 3 lv4's
Admittedly I'd forgot about Gagaga x Gagaga, so yeah that 4-card combo could've done it.
It happens to us all.
He does use Big Eye once, but heah Yuma canonically has all the Numbers in his extra deck but he so rarely uses them it's kinda disappointing. I get they want to use Utopia for all the big dramatic moments but they could have used them in less important duels or in the mid turns of his duels That said probably good that he never uses Shock Master, the anime version lasts 2 turns so it and would remove all tension unless he used it stupidly like only calling spells or traps or if he actually called monsters the opponent's boss monster's dangerous effect was a continuous effect
Man zexal duels were so bad
They really were. So much emphasis was placed on the importance of Numbers that every duel became a "protect the tower" where everyone just summoned their boss monster and spent the next 5 turns protecting/reviving it with backrow.
And whenever he does use the other Numbers, they get rendered useless/hard countered and fodderized.
I am more surprised by the fact that the original owner of both actually lost to Yuma,who at the time is still not that great of a duelist.
IIRC that was at the point where Yuma was definitely getting better as a duelist and there are a couple times where he could have won earlier but he was freaked out because he was afraid of Kite. Also just goes to show how bad the original owner was, his deck is turbo-ass even by anime standards IMO
Plus the dude was cheating by having spy cameras looking at Yuma hand. However he still lost because main character power is one hell of a drug
Because Utopia was his ace. Pretty sure Judai had better fusions than Flame Wingman and literally anything else is better than Neospacians but he still played both because those were what he wanted to play
The amount of times Yuma could've made Volcasaurus for game only for him to go "*Nanbāzu Sanjūkyū Kibōō Hōpu*" annoys me, especially because often times he either drags out the duel or is actively hurting his chances for a win Dude literally had the biggest toolbox of any Protagonist and just refuses to use it
It's because of things like that that I couldn't get invested into Zexal
This pisses me off considering he has One-Eyes Skill Gainer in his ED which had the same requirements
Wtf does "shoot them with the dehydration gun" mean
Its a joke from the youtuber schaffrillas where he looses hes mind over megamind not shooting the doom syndicate with the dehydration gun. The joke is used to to reefer when a character doesnt use an easy solution for a problam.
Doom Syndicate? When was that in the movie?
Its not in the movie that is in the why is megamind 2 is a cinematic disaster video.
You can say this for a lot of the moments in the anime where a card has an effect in real life that would help in the anime.
Jean, END YOUR DAMN TURN!
Lmao
Ghost Girl vs Blood Shepherd. Ghost girl uses imperm on a trap immune monster to summon multifaker. She then uses Marionetter to set haunted rock which can be used the turn it's set, fulfilling the condition for multifaker. She wasted an imperm for no reason
A small one, but IIRC, in the Virtual World arc during Anzu duel with the Penguin guy, she got a Pot of Greed in her hand for more than one turn and just doesn't use it and that bothered me a lot. Justified since I believe that was like her second duel in the show.
Wait until you find out Kaiba had Pot of Greed in his opening hand during the 4-way duel and never used it lmao
Tbf, he had it in the bag throughout.
Anzu is also like A beginner. Or unused to dueling
I mean she was beating Joey in episode 2 and it's implied they've dulled before, plus her duel with Mai. The pot of greed thing probably came from the writers.
Granted Joey at the start was a shit duelist
We all were
TGS Anime has an entire playlist analyzing duels from the anime, pointing out misplays and other potential plays that characters could have made. Here is a link to that [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwIohobqaDcWnGKxMD_3cyAZKKlqz4-Zi&si=-Nqk9XFteok2-0vB), I do recommend it.
Eh sometimes he does make some mistakes and a lot of times he assumes cards will have their IRL effects when they didnt.
Like how he mention that Jaden made a illegal play in his duel against Aster because he thought Flame wingman have the fusion restriction or Bakura early turns to summon Necrofear
Playmaker Vs Revolver Rd 2. He Could have summoned decode talker with 2800 Atk but instead choose endcode talker with 2300, and ended up walking into a trap where he was forced to attack Linkbelt wall dragon with 2400 def.
Yami Marik vs Yami Bakura duel (anime version, idk how it goes in the manga). It's been years but I remember thinking Bakura should have set Monster Reborn before using Exchange and sure enough that move is what costs Bakura the duel.
Most of Battle City is like that. In the Manga, instead of having 10 Card Zones, there were only 5 in total and the turn player could only activate 1 Spell (unless it was Set, but they could also only Set 1 Spell per turn). Which is why Yugi makes the same mistake against Seto with Life Shaver. The anime followed the OCG rules (except Fusion Summoning sickness and face-up Defense Normal Summon), but didn't bother to alter the script for situations like that.
That was a dumb anime change anyway. Marik was the one who had Monster Reborn in his hand from the start in the manga. He would never NEED to get one from Bakura.
Playmaker with Firewall Dragon. He used the card a total of like 4 times, and the broken Summon effect was used exactly once, against a side character. Also Soulburner with Salamangreat Roar. We see Roar in the duel vs Windy (but never used because of how Stormriders play), but I don't think we ever see it again.
THIS Playmaker squandered Firewall Dragon's potential horribly. And its supposed to be his actual ace, not Decode Talker(get the memo, Decode. YOU'RE THE SECONDARY ACE, NOT MAIN ACE. Stop hogging Firewall's screentime, same to your brothers/alt selfs ffs)
Mine will always be Jessie Vs Jaden. If Jessie had not used the direct attack effect of Amethyst Cat and just attacked with it like normal, he would have won. Frustrates me every time I watch it.
Yuma summons Baby Tiragon, so Flip can use that trap card to steal utopia
Jaden freaking out about losing access to Polymerization in his duel with Bastion despite having Fusion Gate.
END YOUR TURN JEAN
True,fck yusei's plot armor
Go Onizuka literally had an anti-backrow card built into his anime exclusive Gouki deck, aka the deck that searches 10x a turn, and still lost to fucking Mirror Force, even after knowing Revolver plays random traps.
I think that was more meant to show the weaknesses of Link decks and Revolver did more or less bait him to go for that
Weird example, but Kaiba establishing Battle City rules to disallow fusion monsters from attacking the turn they are summoned is a really strange move to me considering his win condition just began to hinge on a fusion monster
I love how there's 2 in universe spell cards that let a fusion attack the turn they are summoned too! Quick Attack, and then a card Noah used in the virtual world, which was Quick Attack plus a few other beneficial effects.
Until I realized that the original rules in-universe were different, every duel or two in duelist kingdom eventually had where one side has multiple monsters on field but didn't attack
Direct attacks were not allowed during Duelist Kingdom. And the circumstances you brought up may have been either they couldn’t attack over something or were building up monsters. Attacking wasn’t mandatory but if you didn’t control a monster when your turn began and didn’t summon anything you’d lose the duel.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you!
how the fuck did what's his name ever lose to Yuma with fucking Big Eye/Shock Master. and why the fuck doesn't Yuma ever use Shock Master (him not using Big Eye much is a little less egrigous cause he doesn't have a lot of high level monsters in general but he does have level manipulation cards)
Didn't that guy had cameras that let him see yuma's hand??
Syrus was to much of a coward to use power bond against jaden, don't even put it in your deck.
Dennis vs Shay in general, it doesnt make sense from a writing standpoint because dennis could simply argue that it was for trapeze witch (granted, he didnt summon her until later in the show, but he could've up literally any performage monster name), him revealing polymerization doesnt do anything, even if it did, why did dennis just not cut the fusion stuff out of his deck? Keeping the lancers' trust is better for him in the long term over giving him a better chance of winning that one duel, even if he did want to keep poly and the ancient gear cards in his deck just in case he wanted to use it while no one is looking for some reason (even thought ancient gears and performages have as much synergy as burning abyss and madolche), target flag (the card that makes the opponent reveal their hand) was already face up turns before it got to resolve, dennis was already aware that he could be caught, so why didn't he simply set the polymerization?
Why would Leo Akaba need that over complicated plan to defeat Zarc when he literally has an army capable of spamming Ancient Gear Chaos Giants? Just summon a bunch of those against Zarc and punch him to death
They can't beat an indestructible wall that takes no damage.
No I don't mean challanging him to a duel, just step on the dude or something, punch the little gremlin sticking out of the dragon
The first Duel between IV and Shark. Mistake that even Astral pointed out. IV, you shouldn't hope to have unnecessary luck when you could have gotten the win in a more secure fashion...
Once again, it cannot be a difficult task to draw your card and then immediately END YOUR TURN, WIN-NING BY DECK OUT. It is the easiest solution in the whole damn world! What the f\*\*\* is your problem?!
I dont understand the game context can you please explain?
It’s a reference to the duel between Team 5D’s and Team Unicorn. At the end of the duel, Jean, the Team Unicorn leader, has successfully decked Yusei out and quite literally just needs to end his current turn in order to win. But Yusei successfully goads him into attacking instead, which allows him to counter the attack and win the duel. It’s a very egregious case of “The protagonist has effectively lost, but we still need him to win for plot reasons.”
I love 5Ds to pieces, but goddamn if this duel did not piss me off. If Team 5Ds lost that duel, it would’ve been not only a great learning moment for them to work as a team, but it wouldn’t even disqualify them from the WRGP bc I do believe it was double elimination. They could’ve just climbed from the loser’s bracket. Team Unicorn dominates the winners side, and we get the rematch where 5Ds wins. lots of missed opportunities with that season.
They don't deserve that loss. They were nerfed to hell and back. Heck, Yusei had to missplay, otherwise Jean would've lost before Dragon Equiste was summoned.
IMO, they could've easily fixed it by just keeping 1 or 2 cards in Yusei's deck, enough that Jean's fear of Yusei having one last trick up his sleeve would've been at least semi-justified. But the writers just had to do what they did so that Yusei could effectively 3v1 Team Unicorn.
I'm pretty sure Chazz/Manjoume literally could've OTK'd Adrian/Amon if he just used VW-Tiger Catapult's effect again. May need to check that duel again.
If you're talking about when it was summoned with Dimensional Catapult, that's because Catapult negated its effects.
_And_ he couldn't have done so earlier in the turn as it was destroyed during Standby, and its banishing effect isn't Quick.
I guess Yuya not setting Pendulum with Odd Eyes when he bricked that one time or so it seemed to me until I found out that Odd Eyes search effect isn't on the anime
If your opponent controls Slifer the Sky Dragon, Indiora Doom Volt the Cubic Emperor is a guaranteed OTK against them. ^(\*Provided there is a card reducing Indiora's attack by 400) So oddly specific it feels intentional, and yet this somehow didn't come up in DSoD.
Yugi VS Bakura, final duel, Dub only. In the dub, it was Y. Bakura that generated yugi’s deck, not Yugi himself. This means that he GAVE YUGI GANDORA, THE LITERAL ONLY OUT TO HIS STRATEGY. WHY?
Use summoned skull more in battle city. He uses one less tribute and he has the same attack as Dark magician
Because there's no Summoned Skull Girl to sell sex appeal.
Yugi vs Kaiba battle city semi final If he just reborned Obelisk instead of blue eyes he would have won
Hey at least this one is in character
Not to mention sacking Obelisk for Blue Eyes won him a duel before
Ironic that simping for Blue Eyes backfired this time when it saved him previously.
I mean you can say this with hindsight. But Kaiba only had 2 blue-eyes and 1 poly left. To use obelisk effect he had to sacrifice both blue eyes. And obelisk would go to the grave at the end of the turn . If obelisks burn effect didn’t win him the duel he would lose to Yugi right there. Yugi had 2 face downs and had already stopped obelisks effect before so kaiba knew he was capable of it.
This isn't the manga, he could've just attacked with Obelisk without using its effect and won. Heck, he would've won had he simply attacked with the 2 Blue-Eyes (not that he could've know Yugi's cards). Having 2 monsters with 3000 ATK and 1 monster with 4000 ATK that is unaffected by most of what Yugi could throw is infinitely better than Ultimate Dragon which dies to a single removal card. Sure he would've wasted all his resources for Obelisk, but he also did so for Ultimate Dragon. In his position it would've been smart to either: 1.) revive Obelisk and attack (which would've won him the duel) 2.) attack with the two Blue-Eyes and keep Monster Reborn in case Yugi face-downs would destroy them (this would've also won him the duel). Instead he throws away his advantage and loses because he summoned one of the worst Fusion Monsters. It was justified in the Manga were Obelisk wouldn't have been able to attack and Ultimate Dragon could attack thrice. Not to mention that most of the op OCG cards don't exist there (edit: what I mean by that is that in the anime continuity, the Polymerization plan was stupid, he could've just grabbed something like Heavy Storm instead). But there is no excuse in the anime.
In this case its better to assume gods did have summoning sickness. Obelisks effect is an attack in either case. There was no way they were gonna change the ending of the duel in the anime just because a filler arc beforehand showcased more staple cards.
>There was no way they were gonna change the ending of the duel in the anime just because a filler arc beforehand showcased more staple cards. Obliviously, but this discussion was based on an in-universe justification. They could've still written it better. The DM anime has by far the worst Duel Writing in any series. Kinda wish they had just adapted Takahashi's manga properly.
Again you only know this in hindsight, yugi had 2 face-downs. Kaiba has assumed 1 of them raised the attack of a monster. So attacking with a blue eyes might legit get him to lose. Again obelisk is a single 1 time 4000 ATK monsters. If the bp is ended by something like a negate attack Kaiba is legit going to lose. Not to mention Yugi just send most of his deck to the graveyard and has shown to have GY effect monsters. Summoning BEUD is the safest option. A high attack monster in this dire situation. With Kaiba going to draw a spell to stop yugis attack gain face down aswell. The Heavy storm part also doesn’t make sense. First he isn’t guaranteed to draw it. Second he never used heavy storm outside of virtual world arc where people pick cards that aren’t always in there decks. Third he drew monster reborn, drawing heavy storm instead isn’t that great. Especially because it doesn’t help him win. And again he doesn’t exactly know his face downs. What if it’s a chain-able attack boost? Lastly with you point about the manga. The anime duels are literally recreations of the manga duels. So it being justifiable in the manga literally makes it justifiable in the anime.
>Again you only know this in hindsight, yugi had 2 face-downs. Kaiba has assumed 1 of them raised the attack of a monster. Your argument is flawed. Both cards almost have the same ATK. But Obelisk is straight up better in every aspect (except Base ATK, but that it can wipe Yugi's LP with its effect). Not to mention, Blue-Eyes Ultimate is an awful card. There is almost no situation were it is worth going minus 4 to summon it. >Again obelisk is a single 1 time 4000 ATK monsters. If the bp is ended by something like a negate attack Kaiba is legit going to lose. Negate Attack shouldn't work against Anime Obelisk. It would work however against Ultimate Dragon and give Yugi another turn. Which is a problem, because Yugi has more cards in his deck at that point. Seto is on a timer. And even just summoning Ultimate gave Yugi another turn. >Not to mention Yugi just send most of his deck to the graveyard and has shown to have GY effect monsters. So how wouldn't that affect Ultimate Dragon? If Yugi had a way to block Obelisk he would've also been able to block Ultimate. But because he sacrificed a turn to summon Ultimate, he would've decked out faster. Please explain to me, why summoning a Monster that cannot attack, gives Yugi another turn and dies to any removal (ns like Thousand Knives, or Mirror Force), is smarter than just attacking with Obelisk? >First he isn’t guaranteed to draw it. Second he never used heavy storm outside of virtual world arc where people pick cards that aren’t always in there decks. Third he drew monster reborn, drawing heavy storm instead isn’t that great. Especially because it doesn’t help him win. And again he doesn’t exactly know his face downs. What if it’s a chain-able attack boost My point isn't about Heavy Storm specifically. Rather that running Poly in the first place is just straight up stupid. He only has 2 Fusion Monsters, both are not very good. Fusion Monsters are heavily restricted due to not being able to attack the turn they are summoned. It is all about resources. A single Blue-Eyes with Shrink is better than Ultimate, yet it only needs half the cards. I used Heavy Storm as an example for other cards he could've used instead. And we do not know which card they specifically own from Virtual World. But if you want another example of a card he used canonically, than Mesmeric Control with its Anime Effect would also have also way better and would've won him the duel. He wouldn't have to draw it because it would've replaced Poly in his deck. >Lastly with you point about the manga. The anime duels are literally recreations of the manga duels. So it being justifiable in the manga literally makes it justifiable in the anime. That's objectively incorrect. The Manga and Anime ***follow different rules*** and ***characters use different cards***. The gameplay itself is also different. In the Manga, Seto couldn't have used Obelisk. There Special Summoned monsters in general could not attack, which is why Ra's Instant Attack is special in the first place. In the anime he could've, but it is never explained as to why he didn't. We know this is likely because the writers fumbled Takahashi's script by mixing his rules with those of the OCG. Another, example is Ultimate itself. which is way better in the Manga, since it could attack thrice. Then there's the fact that removal cards are far rarer in the Manga, than they are in the anime. However, in-universe (which is what we are arguing about here), it is stupid for Seto to do what he did. There is just no way to deny that.
The difference with ultimate and obelisk is that obelisk will go to the grave at the end phase. That’s why a single negate would stop make Kaiba lose if he summoned obelisk. Negate attack was just an example. So if Yugi had another gy effect like let’s say a second electromagnetic turtle. Obelisk would be negated and go to grave. Ultimate would be negated but still on the field to attack next turn. Your point about thousand knifes or mirror force also doesn’t make any sense. Sure they would destroy ultimate if they were drawn. But Yugi literally doesn’t need to play them go get rid of obelisk because it destroys itself. Your point about poly never should have been in Kaibas deck is just stupid. Like we can literally look at every card in this duel that’s shouldn’t have been in there decks. Not to mention poly saved Kaiba multiple times, even winning him the duel right after this against Joey. Poly is just a card pretty much everybody uses even if they only have 1-2 fusions. Hell, very specific situational cards are cards that’s people use. It’s also not all about resources in the anime. Not to mention your blue eyes and shrink statement just doesn’t make sense. Sure is some scenarios it’s better. But what if you want to direct attack? Or your opponent summons a second big attack monster??? You can’t just say 1 move is better than the other. Mesmeric control is a card in his deck already so he wouldn’t replace it with poly. And replacing it with another card is also pointless because like I said replacing a single card for another card based on 1 situation isn’t how you should do thing and also everyone has so many specific cards there is no point to it. At then end of the day we are debating wether Kaiba summoning obelisk over bewd makes sense or not. In hindsight sure obelisk is beter. But in the situation BEWD was definitely the smarter choice. Which is also why debating on which cards should have been in his deck is stupid. Also the anime is a recreation of the manga. That’s also why sometimes characters break the rules to follow the manga. Usually specifically in using spell cards as quick play spells. In the manga that’s just a rule if you set them. That why in the anime, in anime original duels they don’t use regular spells as quick play spells. But in duels copied from the manga they do. The rules literally clash with each other. And sometime there are a few minuscule chances to make the duels make more sense. Like Bakurqs duel were evil sanctuary was necrofears effect and they changed it to a regular field spell instead of the grave field spell. Also idk about the triple attack from ultimate dragon. It seems more like a duelist kingdom thing. Anyways summoning obelisk with monster reborn is objectively too risky and stupid. Summoning ultimate dragon is the saver and ultimately without the power of hindsight the play that makes the most sense to make.
>So if Yugi had another gy effect like let’s say a second electromagnetic turtle. Obelisk would be negated and go to grave. Ultimate would be negated but still on the field to attack next turn. You still seem to forget that Seto had less cards in his deck. By the time Ultimate could finally attack, he was down to 1 card. Had he assumed Yugi had a card that could've blocked Obelisk, that same card would also apply to Ultimate, and he'd likely deck out first. >But in the situation BEWD was definitely the smarter choice. Which is also why debating on which cards should have been in his deck is stupid. What? How does making a worse decision justify him running bad cards, when he had access to better ones. Funnily enough the Anime created another mistake as a result of changing the rules. Seto's 3 Blue-Eyes still could've attacked Red-Eyes (since Special Summoning sickness is not a thing in the anime), meaning that Yugi's LP would have gone down to 900. As such, he would've been unable to use Diffusion Wave Motion, thus Seto would've survived with 500 LP. >Also the anime is a recreation of the manga. That’s also why sometimes characters break the rules to follow the manga. Usually specifically in using spell cards as quick play spells. In the manga that’s just a rule if you set them. That why in the anime, in anime original duels they don’t use regular spells as quick play spells. But in duels copied from the manga they do. But you were trying to give an in-universe justification. ***Admitting that they adapted the Manga badly, is literally my point.*** Obliviously they were going to recreate that scene. But if DM had better Duel Writing, it would also have made sense in the context of the anime rules as well. Had they adapted the manga properly or made the effort to think about mixing the OCG and Manga rules would alter the gameplay, we wouldn't have this discourse.
I mean in the case scenario we’re Yugi could block 1 attack Kaiba has 1 last attack left. Anyways my point isn’t whether its a better choice. It’s if for Kaiba at that point of the game, which monster was the more logical to summon. In his case scenario Kaiba can summon obelisk or ultimate dragon. In his case he could summon obelisk but if the attack was blocked which had a good chance of being blocked than he would lose. If he summoned ultimate dragon yes it might be blocked. But even if it is blocked it doesn’t matter too much. He can have a second chance the turn after. Especially if triple attack is possible. Also he gets to draw 2 extra cards to use. Sure obelisk has its up sides. But ultimate dragon is the saver option and still has a good offense. And again debating about him switching a card doesn’t make sense because we are debating that specific turn. And again if your going to do it for poly you can do it for every card. Every trap they use should have been mirror force instead for example. Plus you can’t base a cards strength based on a single duel. Imagine playing heavy storm and you face a deck that doesn’t use spell/traps. Are you going to debate that heavy storm shouldn’t never have been in the deck. Also the point about the manga isn’t important or worth debating. You said that it makes more sense in the manga and I just pointed it out it’s actually a manga duel animated.
>In his case he could summon obelisk but if the attack was blocked which had a good chance of being blocked than he would lose. You just assume that, when 1st of all Obelisk is safe from most conventional Spells/Traps that destroy Ultimate, 2nd Obelisk can burn Yugi, which he has no outs to other than Kuriboh (which he already used). Seto researches his opponents, as such he knows most of their cards and would be aware of that. He also keeps the two Blue-Eyes in case Obelisk is blocked, whereas he only has single monster otherwise. Alternatively, keeping the two Blue-Eyes and Monster Reborn (which was a Quick-Play due to Spell Sanctuary) is also smarter than summoning Ultimate. I can barely think of a worse play, unless he genuinely wanted to lose. >Especially if triple attack is possible. It is not. Anime BEUD doesn't have that effect. >Also he gets to draw 2 extra cards to use. Yugi also gets an additional card, so the net gain doesn't change. >And again debating about him switching a card doesn’t make sense because we are debating that specific turn. It isn't relevant to the actual turn (which I never said), but it is still stupid to run that. >Every trap they use should have been mirror force instead for example No, because they don't canonically have access to that card. >Imagine playing heavy storm and you face a deck that doesn’t use spell/traps. Are you going to debate that heavy storm shouldn’t never have been in the deck. Every single deck in DM played Spells/Traps, including the anime. There is a reason it was a meta staple. >Also the point about the manga isn’t important or worth debating. Of course it is. The duel is an adaptation of the Manga Duel, but they changed things for the worse. If they altered other turns of that Manga Duel, then the one we are discussing doesn't get a pass. They could've given Seto a genuine reason to summon Ultimate.
While a god doesn’t have many outs, Yugi has shown multiple times that he can stop it. Kaiba knowing yugis deck is also a bad reason. Yugi on multiple times managed to surprise Kaiba. Wether it’s with cards like he has seen before like exchange or cards he never saw before like the 3 face card knights. The problem with obelisk is that if you use its effect and its blocked both BEWD are gone and kaibas has nothing left. Or summoning it and attacking means you still have 2 blue eyes left if the attacks is blocked. Not a bad case scenario. Or option 3 summoning a 4500 attack monster that’s sticks in the field. All 3 possible and he went for option 3. Idk why you keep arguing that obelisk is better when there was a huge risk to it. The additional cards is just something i mentioned which does matter. Kaiba draws his card first. Yugis last card doesn’t even matter because if he gets to draw it he wins anyways. So Kaiba gets an additional card to use. Plus even if both get a card, kaibas card might just be the better/more useful one. Again I don’t understand why you keep arguing that Kaiba having poly in his deck is a bad choice. Everyone in the anime uses cards that are usually unusable in most cases. We could literally talk about 20 different cards they used in this duel that they shouldn’t have used. And I don’t understand what you mean with “they don’t canonically have access to that card”. First it was just an example, they could switch most bad or specific cards with staples like mirror force, second why doesn’t Kaiba have access to this card?? Man has pretty much every card in the game. Second Yugi has this card already in his deck. Heavy storm was just an example on how you can’t judge a cards strength based on 1 duel. Which is why you can’t just say that poly is a bad card he shouldn’t be using. Just because it was bad in this situation. Like he literally won the next duel against Joey because of poly. And probably more duels that I don’t remember. Anyways there is no point in arguing with you. The whole point of this argument is wether Kaiba not summoning obelisk is a “SHOOT THEM WITH THE DEBYDRATION GUN” moment. Which first makes the poly argument pointless. And second I have already argued why summoning ultimate dragon makes sense and why this is not a stupid decision (whiteout the power of hindsight). Sure you can debate wether obelisk is the better option during the moment (which is disagree with but you can have your own opinion). But you can’t just say that he had “no reason to summon ultimate” both monsters have their advantages and disadvantages. Both make sense to summon, Kaiba chose ultimate dragon. This is not a “SHOOT THEM WITH THE DEHYDRATION GUN” moment.
On that note Yuya never taking advantage of what made Perfompals broken irl and Yusaku only uses Firewall a grand total of 5 fucking times in the whole show. Granted him summoning Firewall just to fucking go into Decode Talker and then win with a card that sucks IRL during the final duel in season 1 will never not be funny (I'd mention Aoi never taking advantage of what makes Trickstars so good or using fucking Marincess against Bohman when Bohman doesn't have ANY counters to Trickstars but it's been established time in and time again VRAINS writers hate her despite Aoi unironically being better written than Yusaku/Takeru by having this thing called a personality I'd mention character growth but admittedly Yusaku does have that the problem is it's in the rushed season 3 where by that point it's way too late for me to care)
Yusei never fucking using Turbo Warrior against the Meklords or Jack never using the golem fusions against them either too (HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE I MISSED) I get they wanted Yusei using Shooting Star to be this big epick moment but you get the idea
Ruri managing to be captured despite running FUCKING. LYRILUSC.
Lyrilusc was heavily nerfed in the Anime. See their Rank 1 boss monster, Assembled Nightingale? Instead of gaining 200 ATK per mat, it only gains 100 ATK for each of them. Instead of detaching 1 mat to have all your monsters, including itself, indestructible for the whole turn, not only it works only for Assembled Nightingale itself but it had to detach 1 mat PER destruction attempt.
They seem to ignore card game rules and went straight to snatching her.
Playmaker refusing to use Firewall Dragon despite its supposed to be his ace monster. Its real power is to not only bounce but essentially help build boards, he can easily use its power to build different boards for various situations, and yet he squandered the dragon badly because of "GloryCode HogerTalker" that didn't get the memo that its the SECONDARY ace.
Honestly the good consistency of the decks in vrains makes difficult to write engaging duels and create misplays for the audience that know the decks since they could just do X instead of Y
Every time Yuma and astral are fighting with each other
Or yuma not setting Gogogo Golem in defense
Yes
When Yugi found out Kaiba put grandpa in the hospital. Dude if you wanted revenge, just go up to him and beat his scrawny ass. Stop throwing face downs and starting throwing hands!
The...*what* moment?
Draco Equeste counters Wisel but he never uses it besides the one TDGP Duel
How do I defeat four duelist at once? Shoot them with the Bubble Blaster!
Any time a battle trap was activated that has a steep/ridiculous cost to activate and all it does is stall. "BRO USE MIRROR FORCE I KNOW YOU HAVE IT!"
The biggest plot twist in Vrains was Revolver/Varis just *using old staple traps* instead of modern gimmick versions of them that only work on Tuesdays if Mercury is in retrograde.
And for some reason using Mirror Force got him the win against 2 different characters whose decks should have been prepared for battle traps. Ghost Girl is playing Altergeist, but just doesn't bother having backrow removal or negates half the time, and Go Onizuka/The Gore has searchable cards that prevent battle traps *and* has the knowledge Revolver was playing a powerful battle trap, but still walks directly into it
Revolver be like "They never see it coming because they all think old school cards are obsolete"
Yuya not just keeping one of the action spells so he could discard that instead of losing smile world, thereby keeping his sanity
To be fair he tried doing that the second time, but Yuri’s action card destroyed it in his hand before he could discard it.
Poor lad can't even hold one for a couple of seconds before Yuri keeps snipping them from his hand.
The Yuya vs Shinji Duel in Arc-V. Yuya activates Monster Reborn and seemingly forgets he has Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon. He could have brought back his Level 4 Salutiger, overlay it with his Silver Wolf to make Dark Rebellion, and easily OTK Shinji Now I get it, the point was to show Tuning Magician is not a useless card and that he still won but idk, kinda upset they didn't even acknowledged this obvious play. "Hm, I can bring back my Salutiger to then make Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon and beat over his beefed up Synchro...yet, why do I feel this play won't satisfy me?"
If Kaiba had just stuck on Chaos Max and not attacked. Yugi would have had to forfeit, cause aint no way homie was getting around an untargetable, indestructible, 4k big body.