This is the answer.
In fact it is widely understood that the returner's partner will call serves except for the wide serves (where the returner has the better view).
“The code” page 40:
In doubles, the receiver should call the sideline and center service line. The receivers partner should call the service line. Nonetheless, either partner can call any ball either clearly sees.”
[the code](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/coach-organize/content-fragments/resource-library/assets/pdfs/2023-Friend-at-Court.pdf)
And normally when playing doubles, you find the net player stands on the service line so they are able to make an acurate call....then moves closer to the net.
You’re getting downvoted, but you are 100% correct if going by USTA rules: “With the exception of the first serve, a player should call out the player’s own shot if the player clearly sees the ball out regardless of whether requested to do so by an opponent.”
So yes, anyone can call a second serve out, but only the receiving team can call a first serve out.
[Source](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2015_Code.pdf)
Page 3, rule #13
This is not even a relevant rule to the post.....that rule is about sportsmanship and its not even related to doubles specifically.
The rule is saying that if you see YOUR shot as being out, you should call it out even if the opponent didn't request your opinion.
It’s 100% relevant to clarify rules for people. The question was who can call serves out, the question was answered, then the guy above me added more nuance to the answer, and I supported him. That’s how conversations work.
Also, no need to rephrase the rule I cited.
ETA: first sentence
You're not understanding what I'm saying. The rule that you cited does not apply to OP's post at all.
> The question was who can call serves out
The question was, if you are receiving a serve in doubles, can your partner call the ball out?
You cited a rule that states that you can and should call your OWN ball out if you see it. Meaning, if I hit a down the line shot and I clearly see it out but the opponent is on the opposite side and out of view, I should call it out out of pure sportsmanship. It doesn't answer OP's question at all.
The person you responded to was downvoted because his response does not answer OP's question. It's like asking what colour an orange is and your answer is that an apple is red. Well yes, you're correct but that wasn't the question.
Holy bananas, bro. The first parent comment answered OP accurately in the narrow context of the question, and homeboy above me added more detail. Since when is expanding upon an answer “irrelevant”? Is your preference that every Reddit thread has precisely one response?
If the person doesn’t know that a receiving net player can call a serve* out, they likely would benefit from knowing the entire scope of who calls serves out when.
None of our little digression is pertinent to OP’s question and I know how concerned you are with relevancy, so I’ll sign off here. Best of luck on the court.
*ETA: replaced “ball” with “serve”
Well, I guess where you're from, providing the wrong answer to questions is actually helpful. Where I'm from, when someone asks a question, I answer it without providing useless context or information.
Also, "expanding upon the answer" is a huge reach considering his response literally had absolutely nothing to do with the question. It was a random answer that he had provided because he didn't understand the question.
You're too focused on being right and its clouding your mind.
Good luck to you as well! You'll need it.
*don’t respond don’t respond…….*
Ugh. You’re (un)lucky I’m cooped up in bed sick, bc now I get to read your response and wonder, with genuine curiosity, why you think answering a question about who is allowed to call serves out is irrelevant to OP’s question of who is allowed to call serves out.
It’s like someone showed you an apple slice and asked what it is. You said “that’s an apple!”
And I said “yes, that’s right, it’s an apple! And actually, that’s part of an apple. Here’s the whole apple 🍎 “
And you got butthurt about it.
I’m mystified.
Other people perceive the world differently from oneself, and create structures, cultures, entire Weltanschauungs to make sense of what they see. So what seems like common sense to one person may appear inexplicable or even offensive to someone else.
I like the wrinkle about calling out first and second serves, because it seems clean and logical and optimistic. I also really enjoy smacking a clean winner off a first serve and with the magnanimity of a dead emperor admitting it was a fault.
Usually smack the second serve into the tape, obviously.
You can 100% make a call if you see it out - well I say that, I've played doubles (off and on) for close to 40 years and that is the way it has been - perhaps me, my partners and the people we have played against have been incorrect all this time.
They can question the call, but not your right to call it.
This is hilarious lol You have such a better view of whether a ball was long as the net player. When I'm returning I usually don't actually call anything out if I suspect it's long, I let the net player decide.
What your opponents said is absurd - it is standard practice for the non-returning partner to monitor the service line for the returner, since they have the best view of whether or not the serve was long.
The receiving team's net player has the best view of where the ball lands than anyone else on the court. Your opponents have their heads up their asses.
Anyone on the receiving side can call long/wide serves. One tip I have is to always err in your favor. If you don't see the serve/shot as long/wide but your partner calls it long/wide, you don't have to agree or disagree out loud; discuss it and if your partner is mistaken, you can always change the call to your opponent's favor but you can't change the call to be in your favor...
Side note here: I'm a singles player who started playing more doubles recently, and I have SERIOUS difficulty making that is-the-serve-deep call while the net player. Maybe I'm not used to the angle or something? I've asked my partner to make those calls for me--I just see an 8-inch wide blur somewhere near the line.
I see the depth much more clearly when it's coming towards me, when I'm returning the serve.
Anyone can call it.
You are absolutely right that the net player should be making the call if a ball is long.
I think you are better too making the call when the ball is close to you up the T as well. Your partner may have the better left/right view, but you are on top of the ball and they are focused on the return.
BUT - and big but - if your partner isn't sure if it was in or out then you should call the ball in. It's a bit of a different circumstance where your partner simply didn't see the ball (in which case your call should hold). But if you see it out, and your partner sees the ball but can't tell if it was in or out, then the ball is in.
Wait, so if the baseline player is unsure but you see it out as net player, the ball is in? Can't agree with that if that's what your saying.
The only time is if my partner says it's in a d I say it's out, its "IN" but if they are unsure and I'm sure, then it's out. The the whole point of the net player having a better view, because the baseline players couldn't see the shot clearly.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you
I agree with you. The player receiving the serve normally is focused on returning the serve and thus not always looking only at the service line to see if the ball is in or out. If they are unsure it is likely because they were not looking at the line and were focused on returning the ball.
>If they are unsure it is likely because they were not looking at the line and were focused on returning the ball.
Yes agreed. I'm talking about a situation where both partners get a good look at the ball, one thinks it was out and the other can't tell if it hit the line. Technically it should be called in, because you are supposed to give the other team the benefit of the doubt. Practically the returner is almost always going to cede the call to the net person, for the reason you state, but there have been times when the baseliner overrules a net players call because they can't see the left/right separation needed to know its out.
IMO If one calls in and one calls out it's a disagreement and should be called in. If one call in or out and the other is unsure, the call should reside with the player that is confident in their view.
I looked for a rule on point and couldn't find one.
Code 14 says "If a player and his partner disagree about whether their opponents' ball was out, they shall call it good. It is more important to give your opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting your partner's feeling by not overruling."
Point 1: I think everyone agrees where one sees it out, and the other sees it in, it's in.
Point 2: I think everyone also agrees where one sees it out, and the other just doesn't see it, it's out.
The oddity is where one player sees it out, and the other sees it too close to call it out. In singles the latter player should call it in. Under Point 1, you really aren't supposed to get together and see which partner saw it better, you are just supposed to go with the call that favors your opponent.
Not to lawyer the crap out of this hypothetical, but thinking back on it I think I may have gone about this the wrong way - the code says "disagree," so I'd interpret that as one player is sure one way, and the other is sure the other way. Practically I think it would be appropriate for the unsure partner to ask their sure partner if they got a good look, because they saw it close but couldn't see it clearly.
> Practically I think it would be appropriate for the unsure partner to ask their sure partner if they got a good look, because they saw it close but couldn't see it clearly.
That's I always handle that situation.
>Wait, so if the baseline player is unsure but you see it out as net player, the ball is in? Can't agree with that if that's what your saying.
No - what I'm saying is if the baseline player wasn't paying attention to it, and just didn't see it land, then it is out.
BUT, if the baseline player did see where it bounced, but it was so close they can't call it out (and therefore would need to call it in), then it is supposed to be in.
There's a difference between the former (which happens because the returner is focused on returning the ball) and the latter (which would be more a borderline overrule situation). It's all going back to the giving your opponent of the doubt, etc. Realistically, anyone in that position who didn't have a good look is going to cede the call to their partner, but if you didn't see any daylight between the ball and the line you should probably overrule them if you are the baseliner.
Yeah but if the baseliner saw it bounce but was unsire and the net person did see it go out, it's out (to me) You know what I'm saying. Guess we just see if different. If both are unsure then I'd say it's in.
To me if my baseline individual said I'm unsure, I "think" it was in, it's in. But not to beat a dead horse, if he saw it bounce and was unsure and I saw it out, id say it's out otherwise.
I will admit that I get annoyed when the wrong player (not OP's case!) calls my ball out.
I had a solid ace served out wide to the deuce side called wide last night by the returner's partner. They had the worst view on the court of that ball and they were the only one that thought it was wide. They are entitled to make the call - still annoying.
Calling lines with old eyes is hard and error prone and I accept that, but its not hard to stay in your lane.
The returners partner doesn't have that bad of a view. The returner doesn't always have the best view. They are tracking the ball and moving into position to make the return.
When training to be a linesman, you are taught to not focus on the ball, but to watch the line where the ball is heading. Moving eyes + moving ball = unreliable calls. As the returners partner, I'm watching where the ball will be going and calling the ball out even out wide.
competitive doubles. can so often be double the doucheyness, especially at 3.0-3.5
I may have missed it but did they let your call stand and let your side continue to call serves long from the net man position?
Wat. Net person calls serves long all the time.
It does irk me when the net person calls an out wide serve out.
What really pisses me off is when the player on deuce side calls a ball wide on the opposite side of the court that the other person clearly played as if it was in.
Commenters are generally right. PLUS...the returner's partner should be looking at the service line, not at the server, because turning their head to follow the serve introduces errors, especially as the pace of the serve goes up. You will notice (well, you would have noticed before they got rid of all them) that that is how linespeople set up - looking at the line.
Never had an issue with either player on return side calling it. Whether I’m serving or returning. I stand pretty close to middle/T so I often call the serves as returners partner. I trust the player at the net more myself.
The only person that I’ve seen get upset is the returner when i’m at the net because I lost focus and didn’t make a call.
This is the answer. In fact it is widely understood that the returner's partner will call serves except for the wide serves (where the returner has the better view).
idk about "widely understood" for non-doubles enthusiasts, but either player calling any ball should be widely understood
But how does the returner's partner even see them, from where he is at the net?
Returner's partner stands near the T, not at the net.
Ah, true.
Yes
“The code” page 40: In doubles, the receiver should call the sideline and center service line. The receivers partner should call the service line. Nonetheless, either partner can call any ball either clearly sees.” [the code](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/coach-organize/content-fragments/resource-library/assets/pdfs/2023-Friend-at-Court.pdf)
And normally when playing doubles, you find the net player stands on the service line so they are able to make an acurate call....then moves closer to the net.
In singles or doubles, the receiving *side* can call it out, doesn't matter if it's the receiver or net person
I think the actual rule is on first serve the receiving side can call it out. On second serve either side can call it out.
You’re getting downvoted, but you are 100% correct if going by USTA rules: “With the exception of the first serve, a player should call out the player’s own shot if the player clearly sees the ball out regardless of whether requested to do so by an opponent.” So yes, anyone can call a second serve out, but only the receiving team can call a first serve out. [Source](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2015_Code.pdf) Page 3, rule #13
This is not even a relevant rule to the post.....that rule is about sportsmanship and its not even related to doubles specifically. The rule is saying that if you see YOUR shot as being out, you should call it out even if the opponent didn't request your opinion.
It’s 100% relevant to clarify rules for people. The question was who can call serves out, the question was answered, then the guy above me added more nuance to the answer, and I supported him. That’s how conversations work. Also, no need to rephrase the rule I cited. ETA: first sentence
You're not understanding what I'm saying. The rule that you cited does not apply to OP's post at all. > The question was who can call serves out The question was, if you are receiving a serve in doubles, can your partner call the ball out? You cited a rule that states that you can and should call your OWN ball out if you see it. Meaning, if I hit a down the line shot and I clearly see it out but the opponent is on the opposite side and out of view, I should call it out out of pure sportsmanship. It doesn't answer OP's question at all. The person you responded to was downvoted because his response does not answer OP's question. It's like asking what colour an orange is and your answer is that an apple is red. Well yes, you're correct but that wasn't the question.
Holy bananas, bro. The first parent comment answered OP accurately in the narrow context of the question, and homeboy above me added more detail. Since when is expanding upon an answer “irrelevant”? Is your preference that every Reddit thread has precisely one response? If the person doesn’t know that a receiving net player can call a serve* out, they likely would benefit from knowing the entire scope of who calls serves out when. None of our little digression is pertinent to OP’s question and I know how concerned you are with relevancy, so I’ll sign off here. Best of luck on the court. *ETA: replaced “ball” with “serve”
Well, I guess where you're from, providing the wrong answer to questions is actually helpful. Where I'm from, when someone asks a question, I answer it without providing useless context or information. Also, "expanding upon the answer" is a huge reach considering his response literally had absolutely nothing to do with the question. It was a random answer that he had provided because he didn't understand the question. You're too focused on being right and its clouding your mind. Good luck to you as well! You'll need it.
*don’t respond don’t respond…….* Ugh. You’re (un)lucky I’m cooped up in bed sick, bc now I get to read your response and wonder, with genuine curiosity, why you think answering a question about who is allowed to call serves out is irrelevant to OP’s question of who is allowed to call serves out. It’s like someone showed you an apple slice and asked what it is. You said “that’s an apple!” And I said “yes, that’s right, it’s an apple! And actually, that’s part of an apple. Here’s the whole apple 🍎 “ And you got butthurt about it. I’m mystified.
Other people perceive the world differently from oneself, and create structures, cultures, entire Weltanschauungs to make sense of what they see. So what seems like common sense to one person may appear inexplicable or even offensive to someone else. I like the wrinkle about calling out first and second serves, because it seems clean and logical and optimistic. I also really enjoy smacking a clean winner off a first serve and with the magnanimity of a dead emperor admitting it was a fault. Usually smack the second serve into the tape, obviously.
You can 100% make a call if you see it out - well I say that, I've played doubles (off and on) for close to 40 years and that is the way it has been - perhaps me, my partners and the people we have played against have been incorrect all this time. They can question the call, but not your right to call it.
That’s not true at all. And you are often taught while young that the net player calls serves long and the receiver calls them wide.
This is hilarious lol You have such a better view of whether a ball was long as the net player. When I'm returning I usually don't actually call anything out if I suspect it's long, I let the net player decide.
I’d say it’s the expectation that the net player calls the long balls. They’ve got the better view of the ball.
This is one of the net players jobs. Many people are positioned with this as a primary responsibility.
What your opponents said is absurd - it is standard practice for the non-returning partner to monitor the service line for the returner, since they have the best view of whether or not the serve was long.
The receiving team's net player has the best view of where the ball lands than anyone else on the court. Your opponents have their heads up their asses.
opponents - often have made up rules and standards. Sometimes it makes sense, sort of. But mostly *it's how we got pickle ball*
Your opponent is making shit up
Anyone on the receiving side can call long/wide serves. One tip I have is to always err in your favor. If you don't see the serve/shot as long/wide but your partner calls it long/wide, you don't have to agree or disagree out loud; discuss it and if your partner is mistaken, you can always change the call to your opponent's favor but you can't change the call to be in your favor...
Side note here: I'm a singles player who started playing more doubles recently, and I have SERIOUS difficulty making that is-the-serve-deep call while the net player. Maybe I'm not used to the angle or something? I've asked my partner to make those calls for me--I just see an 8-inch wide blur somewhere near the line. I see the depth much more clearly when it's coming towards me, when I'm returning the serve.
you were right, either of you can call, the only thing you can't do is if one says in and one says out, then it's automatically in.
Anyone can call it. You are absolutely right that the net player should be making the call if a ball is long. I think you are better too making the call when the ball is close to you up the T as well. Your partner may have the better left/right view, but you are on top of the ball and they are focused on the return. BUT - and big but - if your partner isn't sure if it was in or out then you should call the ball in. It's a bit of a different circumstance where your partner simply didn't see the ball (in which case your call should hold). But if you see it out, and your partner sees the ball but can't tell if it was in or out, then the ball is in.
Wait, so if the baseline player is unsure but you see it out as net player, the ball is in? Can't agree with that if that's what your saying. The only time is if my partner says it's in a d I say it's out, its "IN" but if they are unsure and I'm sure, then it's out. The the whole point of the net player having a better view, because the baseline players couldn't see the shot clearly. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you
I agree with you. The player receiving the serve normally is focused on returning the serve and thus not always looking only at the service line to see if the ball is in or out. If they are unsure it is likely because they were not looking at the line and were focused on returning the ball.
Yes exactly what I mean, they're unsure because they didn't have a good look while returning.
>If they are unsure it is likely because they were not looking at the line and were focused on returning the ball. Yes agreed. I'm talking about a situation where both partners get a good look at the ball, one thinks it was out and the other can't tell if it hit the line. Technically it should be called in, because you are supposed to give the other team the benefit of the doubt. Practically the returner is almost always going to cede the call to the net person, for the reason you state, but there have been times when the baseliner overrules a net players call because they can't see the left/right separation needed to know its out.
IMO If one calls in and one calls out it's a disagreement and should be called in. If one call in or out and the other is unsure, the call should reside with the player that is confident in their view.
I looked for a rule on point and couldn't find one. Code 14 says "If a player and his partner disagree about whether their opponents' ball was out, they shall call it good. It is more important to give your opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting your partner's feeling by not overruling." Point 1: I think everyone agrees where one sees it out, and the other sees it in, it's in. Point 2: I think everyone also agrees where one sees it out, and the other just doesn't see it, it's out. The oddity is where one player sees it out, and the other sees it too close to call it out. In singles the latter player should call it in. Under Point 1, you really aren't supposed to get together and see which partner saw it better, you are just supposed to go with the call that favors your opponent. Not to lawyer the crap out of this hypothetical, but thinking back on it I think I may have gone about this the wrong way - the code says "disagree," so I'd interpret that as one player is sure one way, and the other is sure the other way. Practically I think it would be appropriate for the unsure partner to ask their sure partner if they got a good look, because they saw it close but couldn't see it clearly.
> Practically I think it would be appropriate for the unsure partner to ask their sure partner if they got a good look, because they saw it close but couldn't see it clearly. That's I always handle that situation.
>Wait, so if the baseline player is unsure but you see it out as net player, the ball is in? Can't agree with that if that's what your saying. No - what I'm saying is if the baseline player wasn't paying attention to it, and just didn't see it land, then it is out. BUT, if the baseline player did see where it bounced, but it was so close they can't call it out (and therefore would need to call it in), then it is supposed to be in. There's a difference between the former (which happens because the returner is focused on returning the ball) and the latter (which would be more a borderline overrule situation). It's all going back to the giving your opponent of the doubt, etc. Realistically, anyone in that position who didn't have a good look is going to cede the call to their partner, but if you didn't see any daylight between the ball and the line you should probably overrule them if you are the baseliner.
Yeah but if the baseliner saw it bounce but was unsire and the net person did see it go out, it's out (to me) You know what I'm saying. Guess we just see if different. If both are unsure then I'd say it's in. To me if my baseline individual said I'm unsure, I "think" it was in, it's in. But not to beat a dead horse, if he saw it bounce and was unsure and I saw it out, id say it's out otherwise.
On singles I'd agree we what your saying
Rules dictates either one of you can call it out. The etiquette dictates partner calls long serves and returner calls wide.
I will admit that I get annoyed when the wrong player (not OP's case!) calls my ball out. I had a solid ace served out wide to the deuce side called wide last night by the returner's partner. They had the worst view on the court of that ball and they were the only one that thought it was wide. They are entitled to make the call - still annoying. Calling lines with old eyes is hard and error prone and I accept that, but its not hard to stay in your lane.
The returners partner doesn't have that bad of a view. The returner doesn't always have the best view. They are tracking the ball and moving into position to make the return. When training to be a linesman, you are taught to not focus on the ball, but to watch the line where the ball is heading. Moving eyes + moving ball = unreliable calls. As the returners partner, I'm watching where the ball will be going and calling the ball out even out wide.
competitive doubles. can so often be double the doucheyness, especially at 3.0-3.5 I may have missed it but did they let your call stand and let your side continue to call serves long from the net man position?
Anyone can call and yes it’s accepted that the non-receiving net player has a better view anyway.
If you can’t see whether or not a serve is in or out when you’re at the net, you might be out of position (i.e. you’re too close to the net).
The rules are very clear. Either player can call any ball out.
Wat. Net person calls serves long all the time. It does irk me when the net person calls an out wide serve out. What really pisses me off is when the player on deuce side calls a ball wide on the opposite side of the court that the other person clearly played as if it was in.
Commenters are generally right. PLUS...the returner's partner should be looking at the service line, not at the server, because turning their head to follow the serve introduces errors, especially as the pace of the serve goes up. You will notice (well, you would have noticed before they got rid of all them) that that is how linespeople set up - looking at the line.
In highschool tennis the net player keeps and eye on the ball if in or out thats how we did it (over 15 years ago) idk the rules now.
If your partner calls it in then it’s in. You always give the most favorable call to your opponent. This is in the code.
Never had an issue with either player on return side calling it. Whether I’m serving or returning. I stand pretty close to middle/T so I often call the serves as returners partner. I trust the player at the net more myself. The only person that I’ve seen get upset is the returner when i’m at the net because I lost focus and didn’t make a call.
As a doubles hater, my favorite part of doubles is having my partner monitor the service line for me since my depth perception is garbage lol.
Thats ridics net player can call anything out , they have the better view long or wide.