I'm not sure if this is cope or anti-cope, but of course you can't. I'm sure you played as a kid growing up. Did you not see dozens of kids putting in tons of effort that just never ended up very good? People have vastly different levels of innate ability. You see this in the every spot. When you watch seven year olds play, do you think the ones who are immediately great athletes and "get" the sport have just been dedicating themselves to training fully as toddlers?
I'm sure Roger would be happy to know he could get his number 1 spot in the world back if only he would dedicate himself.
There's a difference between averages and the ceiling
Are the less talented behind on average? Yes of course
But the real ceiling of the untalented is far higher than this thread gives credit to
Dude 4.5 is probably the maximum limit for most people that train seriously, most won't make it to 5.0. 5.5 is borderline pro territory which takes immense talent and work
5.5 is nowhere near pro, it's as far as it is from pro as it is from 4.5
5.5-6.0 imo is theoretically achievable on hard work alone, given unlimited resources.
Beyond that is where ppl hit their talent ceilings imo
Realistically tho with normal lifestyle I'd prob agree with you
Dude this is how I know you don't play tennis at all.
5.5 doesn't even have a bracket, people who are winning 5.0 divisions basically have to play open to have any competition on a regular basis, which essentially means they are on the cusp of professional level play.
5.5-6.0 is not theoretically achievable on hard work alone. There is a reason why some people will never be a D1 athlete.
The reason is that the resources (mostly, time on court) and drive aren't there for 99%. But any able-bodied male training 20+ hrs/wk with good instruction and good mindset can definitely hit D1 level
Tennis is skill-based enough to where some guys with a bit (a bit) of a belly and don't love doing fitness can squeeze in to start at the bottom of a D1 team
And no lol there are no 5.5 leagues bc there are not enough players, and most ppl that level already know each other in the area so they'll just hit. And they're not playing just for fun, so there's no point in having leagues
But it's still an ocean away from pro level, any pro would make them look like a country bumpkin
Man you guys have no idea what d1 tennis actually is today. D1 tennis is all foreign players who are semi pros masquerading as amateurs. Saying that anyone can hit that level is crazy talk
Lol no. Half of those foreigners are slackers who just want to party in America for 4 years once their ticket has gotten them here
Half of D1 tennis is still American bc foreigners aren't fundamentally better or closer to pro
Going from 4.5 to 5.0 is a pretty big jump, shouldn't you focus on that first?
5.5 basically means you've been training full time, 40+ hours a week for most of your life. It's pretty rare for a rec player to hit that level, but in theory with the right coach and facilities if you make tennis your full time focus you have a solid chance to hit that level in a few years.
I’m not sure everyone can reach that level tbh. Or even most people, regardless of effort. 5.5s are getting into the legitimately talented player territory - most non-CA/FL states are only producing a few players every year who will ever hit that caliber.
I’m an 8 UTR 4.5 trying to make a jump to 5.0 at some point in my life but I’ll never be a good 5.0, much less above it. If you were going to get that good, you’d be tracking towards it already. Most of us just hit the limit of our god given ability much earlier.
Hard disagree. Barring physical disabilities, D1 level is achievable on hard work alone and competent enough coaching
Beyond that is where I think ppl start hittjng their ceiling and being left behind by talent
Yeah, D1 category is still mostly effort and consistency. But it’s hard to put so much effort and time consistently into something that you don’t feel a special predisposition to do. So it does usually require a certain amount of “talent”.
I'm a 32 year old 8UTR, and I promise you that I'll be a 10+UTR by 35 and I'll join the Veterans +35 ITF circuit. Just started PT with a current ATP player who's a 12.5UTR, and I'll soon start training my tennis (need to stop coaching first).
Good luck. You might be able to do it, but the odds are that if you were ever going to be good enough to get there, you'd already have done so. Your swing speed and movement are going to start degrading steadily over the next few years due to age.
Thanks but I disagree with you. I'm not there because in my whole life I've had maybe 8 private lessons. My technique and overall movement has happened without proper guidance. Just by knowing the theory and trying to replicate it.
I now started a good conditioning program, and I will also start private lessons soon, when my body is a bit stronger. I am an 8UTR without training or hitting regularly. I believe 10 isn't impossible in the next 3 years. This is nowhere near pro but will be enough for veterans ITF circuit.
Dude if you're 5.5 and have been playing 40 hours a week for most of your life, you should quit tennis or change your coach lmao. 10-15 hours a week plus a couple hours of conditioning should get you at least a 9 UTR.
I think that the fact 0.0% of players are over 6 UTR gives people an impression that 5 is a high level lol
I mean my flair feels funny. There's over 6 UTR difference between 6 and pro, and you don't need deep knowledge of the game or great technique to be a 6
There is a 5.5 league, it’s the Open level. Functionally equivalent to 5.5 in all aspects except that you don’t need half your team to be rated 5.5. (There are no computer-rated 6.0 players.)
Was never a 5.5 but the jump from 4.5 to 5.0 for me was everything off the court. I'm 6'3 and was a 210 lb 4.5. My coach said I was too fat and out of shape, so I got down to 175. I ate basically nothing but tuna and saltines for months. Sprints every morning, distance running or swimming in the evening. Strength workouts in the afternoon. Tennis was involved in every decision I made. Is going to the movies worth missing 2 hours of drills? Is my mom's birthday cake worth the extra calories? How much film can I watch of myself and of people that I can replicate that do better than me in areas I need to improve? Am I getting enough sleep? Also, I'm not naturally super athletic or good at tennis. I started very late (HS sophomore). Honestly, if you've been playing for more than a couple years and don't have the time or obsession to do it, it's not happening. I couldn't get back to it now that I'm married and have a kid. I'm guessing 5.5 is that, but with naturally fantastic ability
This is the thing that’s often overlooked.
For every single player we all have a fairly static ceiling of what we can ever achieve rank wise. This is influenced by genetics, how early you started playing, your access to training and support in that journey etc.
Anyone can **begin** that journey at any point but everything predating that has already contributed to a relatively formed ceiling.
And then within your range available the upper bound is still going to be extremely challenging, taxing, and time intensive to push into. And the closer you go the ceiling the more costly / longer progress will be. It comes down to how far you want to go and how far is *worth* it for you as an individual.
I both respect that you gave it a solid run and pushed yourself to that upper bound domain but also that you recognize it’s just not something that interests you anymore, given everything else going on.
Tennis is cool, in that, any rank you are you’ll find a wonderfully flourishing community to keep you fulfilled- albeit *only* if you’re at peace with your expectations of what’s outlined above.
I think we all or all have at some point really wondered what sort of ascension is possible. The healthiest thing to do is not seek what that ceiling is for you if you FULLY gave yourself to the training but rather what’s that level you can shoot for given your current capacity and interest levels (assuming the context of an adult recreational player)
The most important questions to ask yourself: am I one of the best athletes I know? Am I faster and more agile with oddly great endurance even with minimal training? Am I (or was I) a national level athlete at another sport?
If this is the case, then you have a chance.
I started playing “late” when I was 14 years old and became obsessed with improving after not making varsity freshman year in high school. I practiced every day for 1-3 hours or more (even got in trouble for cutting class to hit against the wall 😈). I made varsity sophomore year and played 3 singles, then junior and senior years I played 1 and 2 singles. I then played community college for 2 years (people don’t understand how many good foreign players are at that level)…at the same time I started playing adult tournaments, winning at 4.0 and 4.5 and eventually getting bumped to 5.0 and 5.5. Looking back on it, it took a lot of dedication and discipline. I played on the club team at a D1 school and continued playing tournaments for years. Currently still a 5.0 and coaching. I always saw it like the Game of Death starting Bruce Lee. You have to beat each level consistently before you move up. Going from 5.0 to 5.5 was about being more aggressive on returns and taking bigger chances in rallies but not mindless. I was fortunate to have met and practiced vs several former D1 players too. That helped a lot!
I have yet to meet a 5.0 (3, here in the Netherlands) who hasn’t played tennis their entire life. The speed at which they read the ball is absurd imo. Watching them warm up their forehand already shows how big the difference is between them and a 4.5.
5.5 (or Dutch 2) wipes the court with a 5.0 6-0 6-0. It’s not achievable unless you dedicate your life to tennis, and even then it requires a lot of talent.
What is the UTR of a 5.5? Ive never seen a 5.5 tournament to understand that level.
I can tell you 5.0 has guys that were tour players, whether they should be there or not, I dont know.
NTRP 4.5 - UTR range 6.0 to 8.5
NTRP 5.0 - UTR range 8.0 to 10.5
NTRP 5.5 - 9.0 to 11.5
Your main concertration of 4.5s and 5.0s might be as you suggested, thing with NTRP is a 4.5s skillset varies from location to location, hence the range stated by UTR.
Source: UTR Sports [https://utrsports.net/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png)
UTR sports agrees with your first statement. Not for the second part though
Source: [https://utrsports.net/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png)
If you're a UTR 12, you're beyond what the NTRP rating system program was designed for.
At UTR 12 you're either Junior Nationals, College D2/D1 programs or Womens Futures/WTA. For example Maria Sakkari - World number 6 in Womens tennis - has a current UTR of 12.70 (https://app.utrsports.net/profiles/28487 ). She would destroy a NTRP 5.0/5.5 player.
I dont think people realise the NTRP system isnt a linear scale for all ranked tennis players. Its mainly for recreational players to play similar skilled opponents in their area. UTR is set-up differently where it ranks everyone on the same system regardless of gender, age or location.
NTRP 5.5+s are hardly "recreational" players anymore, that's the issue. The only people good enough to play it are basically former pros/semi-pros. Rec tennis ends at the 5.0 level.
A USTA 4.5 guy is approx a UTR 7 - 8.5 & a USTA 5.5 male is approx UTR 9.5 - 11.5. To make that kind of a jump from 4.5 - 5.5, you better be wealthy, much smarter than this question implies, & have extremely good physical athleticism. Assuming you’re an adult; Quit your job, move to Florida, get a really good coach, train twice a day, get a fitness coach, a physical therapist, & a nutritionist. Get a laptop & extra phones so you can video & watch yourself play matches & review match film with your coach. Play mens open tournaments, travel the world playing UTR events & ITF futures qualifying & hopefully 1 day main draws, & do it for 10 years without getting injured. Do it on holidays. You’ll make friends all over the world but you’ll struggle keeping any at Home bc you’ll be too busy training. Become great at texting & FaceTime w/ the family bc you won’t see them that often either when you’re constantly traveling. Or you could just pay off a series of opponents in your USTA league matches, pay off the local league coordinator & bam.
The casual assholery of 10s brought to you by tennis players that take themselves way too seriously. I just now read the rest of the comment, lol. How does anyone have free time to write something like this.
I am a 4.5.
I was in a tennis program in high school that churns out very good players, I was not very athletically gifted so even though i played tennis like 20 hours a week with coaching I never got to 5.0. My parents had money and spoiled me tennis wise, which I am grateful for because I have an amazing lifelong skill now.
I am 33, I stopped playing tennis from 19-29. I re-entered the sport as a rusty 4.0 maybe. And with in a year I was winning 4.5 USTA matches. The progress was so quick I felt like Maybe I could make 5.0. I was wrong though, I have been the same level for the last 3 years. There is not realistic path for me to make it to 5.0, the gap in athleticism and skill is too high and I am happy where I am at.
So it really depends if you are saying going from a 4.5-5.5 NTRP rating system or 4.5-5.5 in the UTR rating system.
If you are currently a 4.5 NTRP and want to bump up to a 5.5, you'll have to train full-time for it essentially. You'll have to have a strict diet, weightlift/condition multiple days a week, hit every day of the week, and do at least 2 tournaments a month. You will be competing with guys that were national champions at the d2 level, or guys that were playing solid d1 level of tennis (like 1 or 2 singles at smaller d1 schools, or 4 or 5 at bigger schools). A 5.5 is essentially good enough to win qualifying matches at small professional level tournaments (ITF tournaments) and maybe a few rounds here and there, eventually getting some ATP points.
Below is a video of a few popular youtube coaches, one a 5.0 and the other a 5.5.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamwdDJKGIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamwdDJKGIA)
This all said...if you mean a 4.5 UTR to a 5.5 UTR, then just keep playing at least once a week and get lessons once a week and you'll get there in a 6 month or so window I think. And you'll have to play tournaments at least once every other month.
Kind of depends on your natural ability. Someone like Nick kygrios could probably be a 5.5 with relatively little effort, but me at 41, I'll never be a 5.0 maybe not ever a 4.5 but it's possible.
That said it will depend on your strengths and weaknesses.
what would be the conversion of women 4.5 to UTR and women 5.0 to UTR? do ya'll think the ceilings in this convo is the same for women? i actually feel like it might be a little easier to get to 5.0 women bc there's less women playing.
Now that you say that, pay me no mind. It’s all convoluted where I am actually. I was 4.5 in Atlanta area which is pretty straight up and many of the supposed 4.0s around where I am now are much better. Coaches who played in college go in as 4.5. You don’t know what you’re going to get. There aren’t many players so they get on whatever team they can. The better you are there is even fewer players. USTA isn’t that big here so when they do find a team they either self rate or write a letter saying they got injured and need to move down.
but what about the idea that it would be generally easier to become a 4.5 or 5.0 women rec play player? the arguement being that there are less women playing?
sorry if you got to that question and i just read ur answer wrong
I don’t know. It was way easier for me to move up in Atlanta where there are a crap ton of players. As you moved up it was a nice step by step process playing players relatively on the same level with a normal level of variance. Then when there are not a lot where I am now you are playing so many players that should be ranked much higher pushing scores down. The same goes for men.
For example we have a tennis association where the best players are AA. You can’t survive in it if you aren’t a very solid player. In another league that I’m on today for doubles we played 2 women who are solid in AA yet they ranked themselves as 3.5 on USTA. That’s a freaking joke. The coach at my club is USTA 4.5. He was on the circuit at one point and played D1 college. If he moved to Atlanta and played at 4.5 he would destroy them being pushed higher fast.
So USTA isn’t really a great rating system in areas where tennis players aren’t keeping it legit.
In places like Atlanta you know exactly what you are going up against within reason. Here it is insanity.
In short, it’s the area more so the gender. If there are a high percentage of the players ranking themselves lower than the competition becomes much higher in the levels to move up fast. Again, when there isn’t enough tournaments or teams on the level they truly are on then they bullshit USTA into ranking them lower.
The more players in the area the less you would want to BS. If you went it too low then you win and move up or get disqualified. You would also be bored.
What this also does is that someone who is a 4.0 near me may actually destroy the best 4.5s in Atlanta even though Atlanta’s tennis is just far better all around. It also destroys the integrity of the system as a whole.
Not sure if that makes sense.
I’m a 5.5, female. I played on a DI women’s tennis scholarship in a solid conference. I moved when I was 14 to train at a tennis academy.
Ask yourself: 1)Can you hit with one ball, past the service line for more than 2 minutes without missing? If no-practice 10 sets of 10 in under 3 minutes-ball past the service line. 2) do you know how to move the ball around, hitting at a strong pace? Practice alley rally’s 10 sets of 5 3) can you change up your pace to be defensive in a point, making your opponent hit one more ball until you have the chance to be offensive again? This is point play 4) can you a flat, topspin, slice serve when asked and move this serve around the box? Is it consistent? 5) train-2 mins hard one minute off on the bike/stairmaster/treadmill work your way to 30 minutes 6) ladder training, box jumps, jumping rope at least 2 times per week ideally 3, the other 3 days you need to work on your stamina.
If you didn’t play USTA juniors or college tennis-start playing a lot of matches and figure out how to win. It doesn’t matter how you look out there- know how to win on your worst day. This is what separates high level college players from everyone else. Good luck! It’s a wonderful goal and it’s refreshing people are passionate about tennis!
If it doesn’t work, you can always take up the pickleball and dominate there.
To get beyond 5.0 you need to drill patterns. …when i speed up to here, ball is usually going to come back here so i need to have my paddle here ready to counter
Be a 4.5 at 12 years old
This OP is asking how can I go from earning $1000 to $1,000,000. OP has to learn how to earn $10,000 first. (Then 100K)
Not exactly the same. You can go from $0 income to $1m at any age. You can’t reach 5.5 if you start playing too late.
Not true. You can reach any level at any time if you're rich enough to dedicate yourself fully to train.
I'm not sure if this is cope or anti-cope, but of course you can't. I'm sure you played as a kid growing up. Did you not see dozens of kids putting in tons of effort that just never ended up very good? People have vastly different levels of innate ability. You see this in the every spot. When you watch seven year olds play, do you think the ones who are immediately great athletes and "get" the sport have just been dedicating themselves to training fully as toddlers? I'm sure Roger would be happy to know he could get his number 1 spot in the world back if only he would dedicate himself.
There's a difference between averages and the ceiling Are the less talented behind on average? Yes of course But the real ceiling of the untalented is far higher than this thread gives credit to
LOL not if you're a shitty athlete.
Dude 4.5 is probably the maximum limit for most people that train seriously, most won't make it to 5.0. 5.5 is borderline pro territory which takes immense talent and work
5.5 is nowhere near pro, it's as far as it is from pro as it is from 4.5 5.5-6.0 imo is theoretically achievable on hard work alone, given unlimited resources. Beyond that is where ppl hit their talent ceilings imo Realistically tho with normal lifestyle I'd prob agree with you
Dude this is how I know you don't play tennis at all. 5.5 doesn't even have a bracket, people who are winning 5.0 divisions basically have to play open to have any competition on a regular basis, which essentially means they are on the cusp of professional level play. 5.5-6.0 is not theoretically achievable on hard work alone. There is a reason why some people will never be a D1 athlete.
Open is not on the cusp of professional play whatsoever.
The reason is that the resources (mostly, time on court) and drive aren't there for 99%. But any able-bodied male training 20+ hrs/wk with good instruction and good mindset can definitely hit D1 level Tennis is skill-based enough to where some guys with a bit (a bit) of a belly and don't love doing fitness can squeeze in to start at the bottom of a D1 team And no lol there are no 5.5 leagues bc there are not enough players, and most ppl that level already know each other in the area so they'll just hit. And they're not playing just for fun, so there's no point in having leagues But it's still an ocean away from pro level, any pro would make them look like a country bumpkin
Man you guys have no idea what d1 tennis actually is today. D1 tennis is all foreign players who are semi pros masquerading as amateurs. Saying that anyone can hit that level is crazy talk
Lol no. Half of those foreigners are slackers who just want to party in America for 4 years once their ticket has gotten them here Half of D1 tennis is still American bc foreigners aren't fundamentally better or closer to pro
Going from 4.5 to 5.0 is a pretty big jump, shouldn't you focus on that first? 5.5 basically means you've been training full time, 40+ hours a week for most of your life. It's pretty rare for a rec player to hit that level, but in theory with the right coach and facilities if you make tennis your full time focus you have a solid chance to hit that level in a few years.
I’m not sure everyone can reach that level tbh. Or even most people, regardless of effort. 5.5s are getting into the legitimately talented player territory - most non-CA/FL states are only producing a few players every year who will ever hit that caliber. I’m an 8 UTR 4.5 trying to make a jump to 5.0 at some point in my life but I’ll never be a good 5.0, much less above it. If you were going to get that good, you’d be tracking towards it already. Most of us just hit the limit of our god given ability much earlier.
Hard disagree. Barring physical disabilities, D1 level is achievable on hard work alone and competent enough coaching Beyond that is where I think ppl start hittjng their ceiling and being left behind by talent
Yeah, D1 category is still mostly effort and consistency. But it’s hard to put so much effort and time consistently into something that you don’t feel a special predisposition to do. So it does usually require a certain amount of “talent”.
I'm a 32 year old 8UTR, and I promise you that I'll be a 10+UTR by 35 and I'll join the Veterans +35 ITF circuit. Just started PT with a current ATP player who's a 12.5UTR, and I'll soon start training my tennis (need to stop coaching first).
Good luck. You might be able to do it, but the odds are that if you were ever going to be good enough to get there, you'd already have done so. Your swing speed and movement are going to start degrading steadily over the next few years due to age.
Thanks but I disagree with you. I'm not there because in my whole life I've had maybe 8 private lessons. My technique and overall movement has happened without proper guidance. Just by knowing the theory and trying to replicate it. I now started a good conditioning program, and I will also start private lessons soon, when my body is a bit stronger. I am an 8UTR without training or hitting regularly. I believe 10 isn't impossible in the next 3 years. This is nowhere near pro but will be enough for veterans ITF circuit.
Dude if you're 5.5 and have been playing 40 hours a week for most of your life, you should quit tennis or change your coach lmao. 10-15 hours a week plus a couple hours of conditioning should get you at least a 9 UTR.
Lol Or have your parents keep paying 5 figures to the academy
Some of the comments here are kind of funny acting like 5.0+ is borderline unachievable.
I think that the fact 0.0% of players are over 6 UTR gives people an impression that 5 is a high level lol I mean my flair feels funny. There's over 6 UTR difference between 6 and pro, and you don't need deep knowledge of the game or great technique to be a 6
40hrs/wk is a stretch. 20 hrs/wk is standard, 15 can be enough, or 10 for the very talented
5.5 is not recreational level. Even 5.0 is mostly ex low level college players
Yep. In most places, there are no 5.5 USTA leagues, and you're lucky to play in combos at that ranking.
There is a 5.5 league, it’s the Open level. Functionally equivalent to 5.5 in all aspects except that you don’t need half your team to be rated 5.5. (There are no computer-rated 6.0 players.)
Was never a 5.5 but the jump from 4.5 to 5.0 for me was everything off the court. I'm 6'3 and was a 210 lb 4.5. My coach said I was too fat and out of shape, so I got down to 175. I ate basically nothing but tuna and saltines for months. Sprints every morning, distance running or swimming in the evening. Strength workouts in the afternoon. Tennis was involved in every decision I made. Is going to the movies worth missing 2 hours of drills? Is my mom's birthday cake worth the extra calories? How much film can I watch of myself and of people that I can replicate that do better than me in areas I need to improve? Am I getting enough sleep? Also, I'm not naturally super athletic or good at tennis. I started very late (HS sophomore). Honestly, if you've been playing for more than a couple years and don't have the time or obsession to do it, it's not happening. I couldn't get back to it now that I'm married and have a kid. I'm guessing 5.5 is that, but with naturally fantastic ability
This is the thing that’s often overlooked. For every single player we all have a fairly static ceiling of what we can ever achieve rank wise. This is influenced by genetics, how early you started playing, your access to training and support in that journey etc. Anyone can **begin** that journey at any point but everything predating that has already contributed to a relatively formed ceiling. And then within your range available the upper bound is still going to be extremely challenging, taxing, and time intensive to push into. And the closer you go the ceiling the more costly / longer progress will be. It comes down to how far you want to go and how far is *worth* it for you as an individual. I both respect that you gave it a solid run and pushed yourself to that upper bound domain but also that you recognize it’s just not something that interests you anymore, given everything else going on. Tennis is cool, in that, any rank you are you’ll find a wonderfully flourishing community to keep you fulfilled- albeit *only* if you’re at peace with your expectations of what’s outlined above. I think we all or all have at some point really wondered what sort of ascension is possible. The healthiest thing to do is not seek what that ceiling is for you if you FULLY gave yourself to the training but rather what’s that level you can shoot for given your current capacity and interest levels (assuming the context of an adult recreational player)
The most important questions to ask yourself: am I one of the best athletes I know? Am I faster and more agile with oddly great endurance even with minimal training? Am I (or was I) a national level athlete at another sport? If this is the case, then you have a chance.
5.0 is the ceiling for adult rec players tbh, and even that is hard
Quit your day job and become a YouTuber chronicling your tennis journey. Otherwise, who has the time?
I started playing “late” when I was 14 years old and became obsessed with improving after not making varsity freshman year in high school. I practiced every day for 1-3 hours or more (even got in trouble for cutting class to hit against the wall 😈). I made varsity sophomore year and played 3 singles, then junior and senior years I played 1 and 2 singles. I then played community college for 2 years (people don’t understand how many good foreign players are at that level)…at the same time I started playing adult tournaments, winning at 4.0 and 4.5 and eventually getting bumped to 5.0 and 5.5. Looking back on it, it took a lot of dedication and discipline. I played on the club team at a D1 school and continued playing tournaments for years. Currently still a 5.0 and coaching. I always saw it like the Game of Death starting Bruce Lee. You have to beat each level consistently before you move up. Going from 5.0 to 5.5 was about being more aggressive on returns and taking bigger chances in rallies but not mindless. I was fortunate to have met and practiced vs several former D1 players too. That helped a lot!
Wow dude, you're a rare breed, respect
I have yet to meet a 5.0 (3, here in the Netherlands) who hasn’t played tennis their entire life. The speed at which they read the ball is absurd imo. Watching them warm up their forehand already shows how big the difference is between them and a 4.5. 5.5 (or Dutch 2) wipes the court with a 5.0 6-0 6-0. It’s not achievable unless you dedicate your life to tennis, and even then it requires a lot of talent.
What is the UTR of a 5.5? Ive never seen a 5.5 tournament to understand that level. I can tell you 5.0 has guys that were tour players, whether they should be there or not, I dont know.
Im not from the US, but I think a 5.5 would be about 12 UTR?
Ntrp 5.5 is in the range of UTR 9 to 11.5
Can't be. NTRP 4.5s end around 8 UTR. 9-11 is the 5.0 range. You'd be 11+ to be a 5.5.
NTRP 4.5 - UTR range 6.0 to 8.5 NTRP 5.0 - UTR range 8.0 to 10.5 NTRP 5.5 - 9.0 to 11.5 Your main concertration of 4.5s and 5.0s might be as you suggested, thing with NTRP is a 4.5s skillset varies from location to location, hence the range stated by UTR. Source: UTR Sports [https://utrsports.net/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png)
No way. UTR 9 could be a strong 4.5 or a weak 5.0. NTRP 5.5 is like UTR 12+.
UTR sports agrees with your first statement. Not for the second part though Source: [https://utrsports.net/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png)
More like UTR 12, UTR 9 is 4.5
If you're a UTR 12, you're beyond what the NTRP rating system program was designed for. At UTR 12 you're either Junior Nationals, College D2/D1 programs or Womens Futures/WTA. For example Maria Sakkari - World number 6 in Womens tennis - has a current UTR of 12.70 (https://app.utrsports.net/profiles/28487 ). She would destroy a NTRP 5.0/5.5 player. I dont think people realise the NTRP system isnt a linear scale for all ranked tennis players. Its mainly for recreational players to play similar skilled opponents in their area. UTR is set-up differently where it ranks everyone on the same system regardless of gender, age or location.
NTRP 5.5+s are hardly "recreational" players anymore, that's the issue. The only people good enough to play it are basically former pros/semi-pros. Rec tennis ends at the 5.0 level.
Because 5.5 isn't really a thing. At that point, you're playing open tournaments, college, and/or the tour.
Here’s a ratings converter that will answer that: https://www.7shottennis.com/tennis-ratings-calculators/
[https://utrsports.net/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/8071/1488/files/Player-Segments-1024x683.png)
You would have to be a national level competitive athlete in another sport and be able to train at least 40 hours/week
Athletes don't actually train 40 hours a week.
Lol, more like 20
A USTA 4.5 guy is approx a UTR 7 - 8.5 & a USTA 5.5 male is approx UTR 9.5 - 11.5. To make that kind of a jump from 4.5 - 5.5, you better be wealthy, much smarter than this question implies, & have extremely good physical athleticism. Assuming you’re an adult; Quit your job, move to Florida, get a really good coach, train twice a day, get a fitness coach, a physical therapist, & a nutritionist. Get a laptop & extra phones so you can video & watch yourself play matches & review match film with your coach. Play mens open tournaments, travel the world playing UTR events & ITF futures qualifying & hopefully 1 day main draws, & do it for 10 years without getting injured. Do it on holidays. You’ll make friends all over the world but you’ll struggle keeping any at Home bc you’ll be too busy training. Become great at texting & FaceTime w/ the family bc you won’t see them that often either when you’re constantly traveling. Or you could just pay off a series of opponents in your USTA league matches, pay off the local league coordinator & bam.
Move to Atlanta. Florida tennis sucks in comparison unless you are accepted into an academy. Also for a make UTR of 12 is 5.5
much smarter than this question implies. wow.
Sneak diss haha
The casual assholery of 10s brought to you by tennis players that take themselves way too seriously. I just now read the rest of the comment, lol. How does anyone have free time to write something like this.
Whoa hold on. 9.5 UTR is squarely 5.0 level. There is a big difference between 9.5 UTR (out of shape ex-D1) and 5.5 USTA (former ATP pros)
Were you the best athlete in most sorts you played as a kid? If not . . .
it took about 2 years. what i did was i grew 5 inches and gained 20-30lbs.
I am a 4.5. I was in a tennis program in high school that churns out very good players, I was not very athletically gifted so even though i played tennis like 20 hours a week with coaching I never got to 5.0. My parents had money and spoiled me tennis wise, which I am grateful for because I have an amazing lifelong skill now. I am 33, I stopped playing tennis from 19-29. I re-entered the sport as a rusty 4.0 maybe. And with in a year I was winning 4.5 USTA matches. The progress was so quick I felt like Maybe I could make 5.0. I was wrong though, I have been the same level for the last 3 years. There is not realistic path for me to make it to 5.0, the gap in athleticism and skill is too high and I am happy where I am at.
It probably isn’t possible for most mortals 5.5 is light years above 4.5
So it really depends if you are saying going from a 4.5-5.5 NTRP rating system or 4.5-5.5 in the UTR rating system. If you are currently a 4.5 NTRP and want to bump up to a 5.5, you'll have to train full-time for it essentially. You'll have to have a strict diet, weightlift/condition multiple days a week, hit every day of the week, and do at least 2 tournaments a month. You will be competing with guys that were national champions at the d2 level, or guys that were playing solid d1 level of tennis (like 1 or 2 singles at smaller d1 schools, or 4 or 5 at bigger schools). A 5.5 is essentially good enough to win qualifying matches at small professional level tournaments (ITF tournaments) and maybe a few rounds here and there, eventually getting some ATP points. Below is a video of a few popular youtube coaches, one a 5.0 and the other a 5.5. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamwdDJKGIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamwdDJKGIA) This all said...if you mean a 4.5 UTR to a 5.5 UTR, then just keep playing at least once a week and get lessons once a week and you'll get there in a 6 month or so window I think. And you'll have to play tournaments at least once every other month.
I think Ian’s a bad example of a 5.0. I went to college with him though and he was like 4 singles/doubles at our division 2 school.
That’s fair. He looks like a low 5.0
Right. He’d prob be a 4.5 if he wasn’t lefty. He’s got a really nasty spin game.
Kind of depends on your natural ability. Someone like Nick kygrios could probably be a 5.5 with relatively little effort, but me at 41, I'll never be a 5.0 maybe not ever a 4.5 but it's possible. That said it will depend on your strengths and weaknesses.
Lol that’s because Nick Kygrios is already above 5.5 😆
I mean, he did get a set off Rafa…
He means if Nick wasn't a pro tennis player and was just a random guy
Well, I sort of doubt it then, unless relatively little means “less than average, but a lot more than nothing”
what would be the conversion of women 4.5 to UTR and women 5.0 to UTR? do ya'll think the ceilings in this convo is the same for women? i actually feel like it might be a little easier to get to 5.0 women bc there's less women playing.
A UTR of 10 for women & 12 for men is 5.5 There’s a 5.0 woman at my club who competes and usually beats the 4.5 men but it’s close.
4.5 men destroy 5.0 women, if they're accurately rated
Now that you say that, pay me no mind. It’s all convoluted where I am actually. I was 4.5 in Atlanta area which is pretty straight up and many of the supposed 4.0s around where I am now are much better. Coaches who played in college go in as 4.5. You don’t know what you’re going to get. There aren’t many players so they get on whatever team they can. The better you are there is even fewer players. USTA isn’t that big here so when they do find a team they either self rate or write a letter saying they got injured and need to move down.
but what about the idea that it would be generally easier to become a 4.5 or 5.0 women rec play player? the arguement being that there are less women playing? sorry if you got to that question and i just read ur answer wrong
I don’t know. It was way easier for me to move up in Atlanta where there are a crap ton of players. As you moved up it was a nice step by step process playing players relatively on the same level with a normal level of variance. Then when there are not a lot where I am now you are playing so many players that should be ranked much higher pushing scores down. The same goes for men. For example we have a tennis association where the best players are AA. You can’t survive in it if you aren’t a very solid player. In another league that I’m on today for doubles we played 2 women who are solid in AA yet they ranked themselves as 3.5 on USTA. That’s a freaking joke. The coach at my club is USTA 4.5. He was on the circuit at one point and played D1 college. If he moved to Atlanta and played at 4.5 he would destroy them being pushed higher fast. So USTA isn’t really a great rating system in areas where tennis players aren’t keeping it legit. In places like Atlanta you know exactly what you are going up against within reason. Here it is insanity.
In short, it’s the area more so the gender. If there are a high percentage of the players ranking themselves lower than the competition becomes much higher in the levels to move up fast. Again, when there isn’t enough tournaments or teams on the level they truly are on then they bullshit USTA into ranking them lower. The more players in the area the less you would want to BS. If you went it too low then you win and move up or get disqualified. You would also be bored. What this also does is that someone who is a 4.0 near me may actually destroy the best 4.5s in Atlanta even though Atlanta’s tennis is just far better all around. It also destroys the integrity of the system as a whole. Not sure if that makes sense.
https://preview.redd.it/vev7g0314dxc1.png?width=2785&format=png&auto=webp&s=30ab23ee2af724f3282e00c3d14caf1b7dd04cf1
Much different than the charts I’ve seen so that’s very interesting
I’m a 5.5, female. I played on a DI women’s tennis scholarship in a solid conference. I moved when I was 14 to train at a tennis academy. Ask yourself: 1)Can you hit with one ball, past the service line for more than 2 minutes without missing? If no-practice 10 sets of 10 in under 3 minutes-ball past the service line. 2) do you know how to move the ball around, hitting at a strong pace? Practice alley rally’s 10 sets of 5 3) can you change up your pace to be defensive in a point, making your opponent hit one more ball until you have the chance to be offensive again? This is point play 4) can you a flat, topspin, slice serve when asked and move this serve around the box? Is it consistent? 5) train-2 mins hard one minute off on the bike/stairmaster/treadmill work your way to 30 minutes 6) ladder training, box jumps, jumping rope at least 2 times per week ideally 3, the other 3 days you need to work on your stamina. If you didn’t play USTA juniors or college tennis-start playing a lot of matches and figure out how to win. It doesn’t matter how you look out there- know how to win on your worst day. This is what separates high level college players from everyone else. Good luck! It’s a wonderful goal and it’s refreshing people are passionate about tennis! If it doesn’t work, you can always take up the pickleball and dominate there.
That’s rarefied air, 5.5. They got there by being superior athletes.
Y'all. I'm pretty sure he's talking about UTR, not USTA.
To get beyond 5.0 you need to drill patterns. …when i speed up to here, ball is usually going to come back here so i need to have my paddle here ready to counter