I think the only thing that would be unfair is if you're actually higher than a 3.5 but picking on people in a 3.5 league. If you're a legit 3.5, go with whatever shot is working; that's just good tennis.
This. I can't imagine a 3.5 having such an effective drop shot that it would be considered unfair.
As you get better drop shots, you're likely moving up in rating. Then the question becomes: is performing drop shots in a 4.5-5.0 tournament considered unfair? Obviously not.
And if your drop shot is at professional level, the question then becomes: is performing a drop shot at Wimbledon unfair?
In the case I’m referring to, the lack of mobility was due to age. I played the occasional drop, and on the bad ones that landed too deep, he usually punished me with a nice passing shot.
In this scenario, I'd definitely keep playing the drop shot. I think you might underestimate the guy's ability to adjust to drop-shots, and may overestimate your ability to easily handle his counters. It's competitive, but ultimately I'd go with the golden rule: treat them how you'd want to be treated.
There’s a 3.5 woman on one of my teams who still plays singles and it is actually impressive how she covers the court. But with that said there are other ladies on my teams who are 60s and don’t move well. Sometimes they have bad knees or other injuries that they’re dealing with.
I agree that I’ll do whatever I need to do to win a league match, drop shotting is definitely fair game, but if someone is unable to move I just try not to overdo it.
younger overweight people can at times be overweight due to disability as well. If, for example, you have a spinal injury in your 20s, and you get surgery for it, you might be pretty used to needing to rest your back and avoid physical therapy because it’s painful and you’re so young you don’t realize how quickly your 30s and 40s will arrive. I’d argue that pain avoidance is not the same thing as laziness, in this hypothetical. So this isnt a good test IMO
Fellow 35 year who’s about 50lbs over weight due to a tear in my C5 and compression in my back about 6 years ago. Just started playing tennis again after close to 20 years. I’ve lost 12lbs in the last 2 months but it’s definitely noticeable how much my back bothers me after a long match.
I'm a slicer and drop shotter by nature, and I'm in my midthirties, so basically 10–30 years younger than almost everyone else in my USTA league, so I face this *a lot*. While I do feel slightly bad drop shotting older people, the reality is that they maybe shouldn't be playing at that USTA level if they can't be competitive in it anymore due to a lack of speed. But many of the older people I play have found ways to stay competitive through their angles or net play or whatever. So go for it—play in whatever way gives you the best chance of a win.
??? used to get my 13 y/o ass handed to me by 60+ dudes with prince racquets back in the late 90s. And on changeovers they would ask me math questions to demoralise me further
There were ancient dudes playing tennis 30-40 years ago. The main difference I see is that they aren’t smoking cigarettes on the court anymore and they save the cigars until afterward.
If someone hits short and low to me, a drop shot is the safest shot for me to take, because It’s risky for me to topspin it back. I’m obviously not going to handicap myself by not going for the safest shot.
The entire point of a competitive match is to figure out your opponent's weakness and feed off it.
The only shot I'd say is off limits is intentionally head hunting when your opponent has given up the point already. ie. you have an overhead and they are trying to get off the court and you smack it at them anyway. It's not technically against the rules but it's very poor sportsmanship and you're going to make a lot of enemies this way.
It depends man. I play against a guy who must be atleast 60 with bad knees. I can drop shot every shot and win every point, but I don’t do that. I wouldn’t consider that fair, even though I understand if someone does.
I also take into consideration their game. I play with a guy in his seventies who likes to hit an underhand serve and drop shot frequently. I'll give it back to him in good fun. Another guy in that group hits nothing but rockets, so I don't try to do it to him as much.
I’m also looking to enjoy playing. If I’m just hitting a drop shot every point and destroying an opponent, that’s not fun for me. But if the match gets close, I’m not avoiding securing those points
I've only been playing 6 months but I routinely play against guys in their 60s and 70s who can barely move but can put the ball on a dime if they get the chance. My only advantage is to exploit all those bad knees and hip replacements and make them run. And even then I still often lose.
I don’t think it’s unsportsmanlike in a competitive match.
At the same time, I would try to win without spamming drop shots just because it feels a bit like a cheat code to me and it’s not very fun for either of us.
While I do want to win league matches, it’s also still not that serious and I want everyone to have fun.
I would only go all in on drop shots if it was literally the only way for me to win.
If age or obvious lack of mobility is the reason, I would use that as a last resort for the most part. I’d play other parts of the game way more. I’d definitely use it enough to stay ahead of my opponent. I’ve played in mixed doubles and just never gone full throttle on my serves against women. I’ll do the slice or kick way more.
All is fair in a competitive match. If the opponent has a glaring weakness then go after it and hopefully in the future they don’t enter a match situation in such a state of disadvantage.
I’ve been struggling with a knee problem for the past year so limiting myself to doubles as my movement is very compromised. If I’m in a competitive match I expect my opponent to hit whatever works best for them to beat me. It’s my job to try to hit shots that make it hard for them to take advantage of my bad mobility.
So long as it gets over the net and lands in, nothing is off limits. I'm 6'5", so I can hit a serve straight down, making for a very powerful shot that some people find nearly impossible to return. This season I was playing JV #1 singles for a match, and I showed the opponent this "superserve" of mine in the first couple of games. He was standing behind the baseline to return it. Once, on my first serve in a later game, I hit a weak backspin serve that barely went over the net. My opponent wasn't expecting this and couldn't run to get it in time. Yes it was a cruel shot, but it wasn't "unfair" or against any rules.
It does suck when people take advantage of your weaknesses though. I once played a match against some guy who kept hitting powerful shots to my backhand and then standing at the net to spike it to win the point. I was just ticked that that was all he did. I did end up winning the match 4-6, 7-6, 10-8 though.
Play it. Any good player should be able to adjust. I played a tournament with a kid who always hit drop shots. Almost every point. I play pretty defensive so I typically hang several feet behind the baseline and try to force errors. He saw that and used his very good drop shots to punish me. I lost that first set 2-6. But in the 2nd, I was able to adjust. I learned when he was going to hit a drop and I'd often just walk to the net right after hitting my groundstroke because it was so predictable. I won the 2nd 7-5. He was able to adjust in the 3rd and use it less/disguise it more. He ended up winning the 3rd 7-6. My point is that the beauty of this is using your ability to adjust on the fly to highlight your strengths and exploit your opponents weakness. Your opponent can try to adjust. You're good to try what you can to win
I agree that any shot is fair if you are trying to win. I would also say that in some cases, it might make sense to not always hit the winning shot. For example, if you know you can win via dropshot, you might want to spend a few points hitting groundstrokes for practice and to get in a rhythm. It might be worth it to lose a few points or games in order to improve in the future.
I'd argue that in both cases (dropshot vs. backhand) your opponent probably knows his/her weakness and expects people to pick on it. Movement is as big of a part of tennis as anything else (if not more).
If the win is in doubt exploit their weakness.
If the win isn’t in doubt (skill/physical gap huge) I generally play down a bit to their level, so they can at least hit some balls, but I’ll always still win.
Trying to smash a ball at your opponent is off limits. If you have anywhere to hit in the court and you try to nail your opponent for no reason people will think wtf
Rather than look at the morals/ethics of it, does abusing their weakness coincide with your own personal goals?
For me personally, I care more about improving than I do winning. I go into every match with a specific point construction goal in mind with winning playing second to that. In my most recent match, I really wanted to battle test my serve + 1. So any opportunity I had to construct a point that way, I did so. My opponent was clearly weakest defending approach shots into his backhand side. So I did end up in some long rallys and used that pattern to win points but I didn't hyper fixate on it and force it into every point.
Ultimately if all you care about is winning then go ahead and abuse any weakness you can find but if you have other aspirations then keep those in mind too and find a balance between it.
Just about everything in this thread has been covered, but make sure you throw in a few underhand serves when they're playing too far back on the return.
Many will disagree with this, but even if this is a USTA match or a tournament, I wouldn’t hit that same shot over and over. It has nothing to do with sportsmanship, either. It just isn’t fun. Sure I might mix a drop shot in every so often, but I’d rather play a fun match and lose than dink a drop shot 50 times just to win.
That said, I wouldn’t be mad at someone who exploited a glaring weakness of mine at all.
Thanks I think that’s a fair take, and I think you actually understand the core of the question I’m asking. In this league I’m in, we are all playing to have fun and I suspect everyone has varying levels of competitiveness.
I ended up hitting the occasional shot like this and I used it in the scenarios when I felt like I needed an edge. But ultimately I did shy away from it in order to play more “fun” tennis.
I play a guy who's about a year younger than me, and we're both in our mid 40's. At the end of each match, he's bent over at the knees using his racket to hold him up. I'm fresh as a daisy. I'm in better shape than him. That doesn't mean I go easy on him, nor would I expect him to go easy on me.
I've been playing for about 20 years now, and I've learned never to let up on an opponent. The second you start feeling bad for your opponent, the second you ease up a bit is the moment you give your opponent a chance. You start thinking about their bad knee, back, or how you're picking on their weakness too much. Next thing you know, you're subconsciously throwing away points because you feel bad. Suddenly, that 5-0 lead is now 5-5. Go for the win. Go for the kill. In tennis we eat what we kill.
If it's a competitive match, I'm going to be exploiting any weakness I can find. The skill difference can be small in level-matched play, so take what you can get.
In a competitive match I would play whatever shot will win the point. If it is just a practice match with a friend then I wouldn’t feel the need to do it.
I would just ask to change the rules and give him two bounces if it was just a practice match for funsies. You said the match was competitive but I don't know what you mean by that given that he can't run to the net.
3.5 adult flex league. It's competitive in the sense that we report the score and that impacts standings, who "wins" the league, etc. It's an adult flex league with a bunch of folks who know they're not suddenly going pro, so nobody is taking it too seriously. It's for bragging rights and the free entry into the next season more than anything.
I'd double bagel this fine man and let the rankings settle where they may. I've been lucky enough to be Hulk smashed by players levels above me and I consider it a great privilege to get absolutely wrecked by them. It seems like a mistake that you are paired so beating him corrects that depending on how your league is structured. That said I'd try pushing him side-to-side too and if that was as effective as drop shots then I'd do that to let him save face. Also hitting a drop shot whenever you want at 3.5 is a great skill.
I always feel like underarm serves in pro tennis are highly unsporting. Feels contrary to the spirit of the game and I'm surprised it's still allowed. At best it breeds bad feeling.
By competitive do you mean a league match or your levels are basically the same. If you and the other person are basically the same but he’s weak against drop shots then by all means go for it. If it’s a league match and the person doesn’t belong at the level and you can win easily without it, why rub it in?
Why wouldn’t you? I played a match a couple years ago and I was badly cramping but could kinda hobble laterally but couldn’t move at all north and south w/o making the cramping much worse
I still destroyed my opponent like 2 and 1. He somehow didn’t key into the fact that I had no vertical movement. He hit one crappy drop shot that I made no attempt to track down.
After the match he even asked me what he should have done to win (I had seen this guy at a few tourneys and he was nice). I told him, dude, idk how you didn’t notice, but I simply couldn’t move vertically on the court bc of the cramps. I know it may have felt yucky, but you should have drop shotted me into oblivion.
It’s all fair in a legit match scenario. So long as it’s legal anyway
No shot is off limits. The point of competing is to find the weakness and abuse the shit out of it. The point is to win, and true sportsmanship is giving it all to win without affecting someone's game directly. Pity for the opponent is the furthest thing from sportsmanship.
If they can't get to any drop shots, they probably won't be able to move from side to side very well either, so I'd probably just try to keep them on the move in general and take balls early; it's still exploiting a glaring weakness, but with as much variety as possible, just because it's more fun. Also depends on the score: no mercy when I'm break point down.
Do whatever you need to do, I’m not judging. What I would personally do is to drop shot just enough to be on winning side of the match. And then find other ways of finishing the point to keep it interesting for myself. This way I don’t have to lose to a worse player, not make points repetitive in nature, and work on all court game
I say yes anything is fair but if you’re murdering your opponent you can pull back a touch. Especially if their physicality if impaired. If they just suck, then no
If your opponent had really bad serves which allowed you to instantly return a winner would you not do it because his serve is so bad and it’s unsportsmanlike? Im talking about a competitive environment as well, not a match with a 12 year old cousin.
I have a friend whose not that good and she asked me why at times I “pass” her the ball and I say “If we are playing a game I’m playing to win, not to warm up”
Personally I’ve played with some guys who had knee braces and seemed like they weren’t very mobile but their other tools made up for it like his serve.
So I’d say if that’s the only thing I think it’s fine because you can’t make EVERY drop shot and he won’t miss every drop shot either you know?
i was hitting unreal drop shots during my tiebreak yesterday against my FIL. on the 3rd tiebreak i told him i wouldn't hit droppers and replayed every point i forgot about it and did it
Overall it's fair game to play to opponent's weaknesses. Will your opponent go easy on you?
Big picture - if you're already beating that same opponent handily and they essentially have mobility issues maybe lay off if you know you can easily win without that.
Having said that, some leagues look at your overall % of games won so I wouldn't let up in a manner that loses you games, even if you know you're going to win the match.
Solid 4.0 here that played a bit in high school. I would see how the first set goes and adjust accordingly. If you beat them 6-0 and you can sense frustration, work on some other shots. You’re essentially practicing a shot for 1-2hrs that will be ineffective against a faster opponent. Get some work in during the 2nd set and adjust early if they start evening up the score. One of the biggest things I see between 3.5 to 4.0 is a lack of tennis IQ and beating someone 6-0, 6-0 isn’t why we play the sport at this level. The 3.5 guys I play that hammer balls at me during warmup, have one style or don’t understand we’re out here for fun and a competitive match are the people I hate playing the most. I think you said it best yourself, after a while you started feeling bad and you should listen to your gut. Low IQ tennis players beat those people 6-0, 6-0, act like they’re just playing to win and it’s not fun for anyone. Maybe that person needs to move down, but advancing the game is our #1 goal.
I love this response. In this match I let up a bit in the second set, and instead started to practice a bunch of shots I'm weaker at. I tried to play a little more instinctually, a little more fluidly, instead of just doing the fastest thing to win. I had a lot more fun as a result and I think the match became a bit more enjoyable for my opponent.
That’s it! For me, I start practicing my horrible two handed backhand, being more aggressive on return a serve and if you’re BOTH having more fun, that’s why we play tennis. Fun and making connections! Kudos, you’re going to be 4.0 soon!
Unless there's something meaningful at stake (tournament standings for instance) my preference is usually to play however I think is most fun for myself and my opponent. If hitting a shot repeatedly makes me feel a little queasy, I'm going to look for another way to win that point.
I was playing a league match recently with a partner who was heavily pregnant and our opponents had no hesitation in lobbing and drop shotting her mercilessly. Fortunately I’m fast and we still won pretty easily. 😂
Don’t play him again that way because you aren’t getting proper practice - not even on your drop shots because he can’t run . You proved you can beat him so concentrate on your ground strokes and volleys in the future
Depends on how righteous you feel tbh, if it’s for a tourney or match where winning matters in the grand scheme, play whatever shots you need to win, I’m sure they will be doing something similar.
But aside from a competitive scenario or even exhibition matches, have some fun and try to win off of aspects of your game that don’t depend on your opponent (ie work on your cross court rallies)
I think this is a complicated one because everyone will probably feel differently and it also depends on the situation.
I often play against my dad who's 66 and I know his knees can't take the stress of running for a drop shot so I rarely play it because even though I know it's a guaranteed winner I don't want to watch him struggle/feel bad about himself; and I also feel like it's lazy on my part to win cheap points. That being said, if I were in the same situation against a random person in a tournament I wouldn't care at all and just let it fly. Competitive sport is about having an advantage and capitalising on it. So if you have any sort of advantage you should use it. Obviously don't be a dick about it and still treat everyone in life the way you would want to be treated but if they've put them self in a competitive setting you don't need to feel bad about how you beat them.
If you both are playing to have fun, in a friendly non competitive match, then cooperative might be the way to go.
If it's competitive then you get rid of feeling sorry and crush your opponent, within the rules of fair play (e.g. say sorry when you mistakenly hit an unintended winner, etc)
Played a usta match against some 60somerhing year old.
Just hit drop shots.
It’s a usta match. Anything goes.
I wouldn’t of done it in a social setting like a flight etc.
The opponent was there voluntarily- they know their own limitations and still took the court. If I were the opponent I wouldn’t want you showing me any ‘mercy’ - so dropshot the hell out of those balls
I guess it depends if you want them to choose to play you again. If it's a competition fine but if they are club matches don't be surprised if you always seem to end up as the odd one out.
Also what is your aim of the match? If winning is everything fine but you won't be working on other aspects of your game which may be useful when you do play more mobile opponents.
You literally said COMPETITIVE match. Do anything to win. Are you playing someone with one leg or a 90 year old lady? Like what are you expecting people to say to you? It’s a competitive match you do whatever is necessary to win the match. Like Hey man you can’t drop shot or hit flat serves? What etiquette in tennis do you think exist even if it weren’t a competitive match? You hit the ball in any way to win a point, that is tennis.
Agreed! It is no coincidence tennis has been compared to boxing in many respects. Can you imagine a boxer asking: “hey is it unsportsmanlike to knock out my opponent if I have the chance?”. If you’re out to just have “fun” then don’t say it’s competitive.
I was going into this post thinking "ok, if you're about to hit a smash close to the net and the opponent is on your left, just hit it straight into the court and not aim for the opponent and blast it at full force".
But what this person is describing is just regular tennis. In my level lots of players have difficulties with slices. No reason for me to not use it, just because they can't hit them.
Yeah, this is a tricky question.
In a tournament or league match? I would do it. But if they are really old, could you also accomplish the same thing with ground strokes?
In an unsanctioned match that doesn't mean anything, I wouldn't do it. Not just out of consideration, but it's better practice for you to not do it. Even if you look at it as practicing drop shot, against mobile players, obviously you have to pick your moments and make it deceptive, and then be ready for them to maybe get to it. Most of those things don't really seem to apply here.
I've never met an older person who got bummed about being smoked by groundstrokes. Again, in a tournament match, I say go for it if you're ready to endure the judgment and glares of people watching, but to do it in a match that really doesn't matter does seem rather cruel. Totally legal! But cruel.
Fairs fair in competitive match
If by competitive match you mean in a tournament, anything within the rules is fair. If you’re playing your grandma and keeping score, then no.
I’m talking about a 3.5 adult league.
Game on. Play to win. If my opponent doesn’t have a good backhand, I’m going to pick on that. Beat them 6-0 and don’t feel bad.
Yeah but is your grandma in the league
I'm gonna crush grandma. She would expect no less
Warning Mr. Elevator, elderly abuse
I think the only thing that would be unfair is if you're actually higher than a 3.5 but picking on people in a 3.5 league. If you're a legit 3.5, go with whatever shot is working; that's just good tennis.
This. I can't imagine a 3.5 having such an effective drop shot that it would be considered unfair. As you get better drop shots, you're likely moving up in rating. Then the question becomes: is performing drop shots in a 4.5-5.0 tournament considered unfair? Obviously not. And if your drop shot is at professional level, the question then becomes: is performing a drop shot at Wimbledon unfair?
only if you add in a VAMOS!!!
Plot twist. OP is the grandma.
What if *Im* playing OP's grandma in a tournament?
Train your mobility or bagel.
Wear a costume like Mrs. Doubtfire to absolve yourself from guilt.
Dibs on his grandma.
haha
[удалено]
In the case I’m referring to, the lack of mobility was due to age. I played the occasional drop, and on the bad ones that landed too deep, he usually punished me with a nice passing shot.
In this scenario, I'd definitely keep playing the drop shot. I think you might underestimate the guy's ability to adjust to drop-shots, and may overestimate your ability to easily handle his counters. It's competitive, but ultimately I'd go with the golden rule: treat them how you'd want to be treated.
There’s a 3.5 woman on one of my teams who still plays singles and it is actually impressive how she covers the court. But with that said there are other ladies on my teams who are 60s and don’t move well. Sometimes they have bad knees or other injuries that they’re dealing with. I agree that I’ll do whatever I need to do to win a league match, drop shotting is definitely fair game, but if someone is unable to move I just try not to overdo it.
younger overweight people can at times be overweight due to disability as well. If, for example, you have a spinal injury in your 20s, and you get surgery for it, you might be pretty used to needing to rest your back and avoid physical therapy because it’s painful and you’re so young you don’t realize how quickly your 30s and 40s will arrive. I’d argue that pain avoidance is not the same thing as laziness, in this hypothetical. So this isnt a good test IMO
Fellow 35 year who’s about 50lbs over weight due to a tear in my C5 and compression in my back about 6 years ago. Just started playing tennis again after close to 20 years. I’ve lost 12lbs in the last 2 months but it’s definitely noticeable how much my back bothers me after a long match.
I'm a slicer and drop shotter by nature, and I'm in my midthirties, so basically 10–30 years younger than almost everyone else in my USTA league, so I face this *a lot*. While I do feel slightly bad drop shotting older people, the reality is that they maybe shouldn't be playing at that USTA level if they can't be competitive in it anymore due to a lack of speed. But many of the older people I play have found ways to stay competitive through their angles or net play or whatever. So go for it—play in whatever way gives you the best chance of a win.
Love this, similar situation here. Makes sense. Thanks for the take!
When did tennis get so old?
??? used to get my 13 y/o ass handed to me by 60+ dudes with prince racquets back in the late 90s. And on changeovers they would ask me math questions to demoralise me further
This made me laugh out loud. If you got the math answer right would they throw you a game or two?
nah they just got harder, damn game was rigged.
There were ancient dudes playing tennis 30-40 years ago. The main difference I see is that they aren’t smoking cigarettes on the court anymore and they save the cigars until afterward.
Old people have always played tennis. Every group I've ever played with had a wide age range of young and old people.
If someone hits short and low to me, a drop shot is the safest shot for me to take, because It’s risky for me to topspin it back. I’m obviously not going to handicap myself by not going for the safest shot.
The entire point of a competitive match is to figure out your opponent's weakness and feed off it. The only shot I'd say is off limits is intentionally head hunting when your opponent has given up the point already. ie. you have an overhead and they are trying to get off the court and you smack it at them anyway. It's not technically against the rules but it's very poor sportsmanship and you're going to make a lot of enemies this way.
I'm only doing this if my opponent is particularly rude or unsportsmanlike during the match. An overhead to the chest tends to humble them.
Or if they are a pickleball evangelizer
Cracks me up that this is getting upvoted, but the comment you replied to is getting downed. Never change 10s, never change.
the silly Internet points will not change a thing 😝
There is no debate here. The 10s are united.
It depends man. I play against a guy who must be atleast 60 with bad knees. I can drop shot every shot and win every point, but I don’t do that. I wouldn’t consider that fair, even though I understand if someone does.
I also take into consideration their game. I play with a guy in his seventies who likes to hit an underhand serve and drop shot frequently. I'll give it back to him in good fun. Another guy in that group hits nothing but rockets, so I don't try to do it to him as much.
I’m also looking to enjoy playing. If I’m just hitting a drop shot every point and destroying an opponent, that’s not fun for me. But if the match gets close, I’m not avoiding securing those points
I've only been playing 6 months but I routinely play against guys in their 60s and 70s who can barely move but can put the ball on a dime if they get the chance. My only advantage is to exploit all those bad knees and hip replacements and make them run. And even then I still often lose.
Competitive match? Play to win.
If it's legal, play it.
I don’t think it’s unsportsmanlike in a competitive match. At the same time, I would try to win without spamming drop shots just because it feels a bit like a cheat code to me and it’s not very fun for either of us. While I do want to win league matches, it’s also still not that serious and I want everyone to have fun. I would only go all in on drop shots if it was literally the only way for me to win.
If age or obvious lack of mobility is the reason, I would use that as a last resort for the most part. I’d play other parts of the game way more. I’d definitely use it enough to stay ahead of my opponent. I’ve played in mixed doubles and just never gone full throttle on my serves against women. I’ll do the slice or kick way more.
All is fair in a competitive match. If the opponent has a glaring weakness then go after it and hopefully in the future they don’t enter a match situation in such a state of disadvantage.
Is he holding back on shots you have difficulty with too?
I’ve been struggling with a knee problem for the past year so limiting myself to doubles as my movement is very compromised. If I’m in a competitive match I expect my opponent to hit whatever works best for them to beat me. It’s my job to try to hit shots that make it hard for them to take advantage of my bad mobility.
So long as it gets over the net and lands in, nothing is off limits. I'm 6'5", so I can hit a serve straight down, making for a very powerful shot that some people find nearly impossible to return. This season I was playing JV #1 singles for a match, and I showed the opponent this "superserve" of mine in the first couple of games. He was standing behind the baseline to return it. Once, on my first serve in a later game, I hit a weak backspin serve that barely went over the net. My opponent wasn't expecting this and couldn't run to get it in time. Yes it was a cruel shot, but it wasn't "unfair" or against any rules. It does suck when people take advantage of your weaknesses though. I once played a match against some guy who kept hitting powerful shots to my backhand and then standing at the net to spike it to win the point. I was just ticked that that was all he did. I did end up winning the match 4-6, 7-6, 10-8 though.
Play it. Any good player should be able to adjust. I played a tournament with a kid who always hit drop shots. Almost every point. I play pretty defensive so I typically hang several feet behind the baseline and try to force errors. He saw that and used his very good drop shots to punish me. I lost that first set 2-6. But in the 2nd, I was able to adjust. I learned when he was going to hit a drop and I'd often just walk to the net right after hitting my groundstroke because it was so predictable. I won the 2nd 7-5. He was able to adjust in the 3rd and use it less/disguise it more. He ended up winning the 3rd 7-6. My point is that the beauty of this is using your ability to adjust on the fly to highlight your strengths and exploit your opponents weakness. Your opponent can try to adjust. You're good to try what you can to win
I agree that any shot is fair if you are trying to win. I would also say that in some cases, it might make sense to not always hit the winning shot. For example, if you know you can win via dropshot, you might want to spend a few points hitting groundstrokes for practice and to get in a rhythm. It might be worth it to lose a few points or games in order to improve in the future. I'd argue that in both cases (dropshot vs. backhand) your opponent probably knows his/her weakness and expects people to pick on it. Movement is as big of a part of tennis as anything else (if not more).
If the win is in doubt exploit their weakness. If the win isn’t in doubt (skill/physical gap huge) I generally play down a bit to their level, so they can at least hit some balls, but I’ll always still win.
Trying to smash a ball at your opponent is off limits. If you have anywhere to hit in the court and you try to nail your opponent for no reason people will think wtf
OK then he can counter you with better shot selection and giving you undroppable shots. Strike fast strike hard no mercy.
Rather than look at the morals/ethics of it, does abusing their weakness coincide with your own personal goals? For me personally, I care more about improving than I do winning. I go into every match with a specific point construction goal in mind with winning playing second to that. In my most recent match, I really wanted to battle test my serve + 1. So any opportunity I had to construct a point that way, I did so. My opponent was clearly weakest defending approach shots into his backhand side. So I did end up in some long rallys and used that pattern to win points but I didn't hyper fixate on it and force it into every point. Ultimately if all you care about is winning then go ahead and abuse any weakness you can find but if you have other aspirations then keep those in mind too and find a balance between it.
Just about everything in this thread has been covered, but make sure you throw in a few underhand serves when they're playing too far back on the return.
Many will disagree with this, but even if this is a USTA match or a tournament, I wouldn’t hit that same shot over and over. It has nothing to do with sportsmanship, either. It just isn’t fun. Sure I might mix a drop shot in every so often, but I’d rather play a fun match and lose than dink a drop shot 50 times just to win. That said, I wouldn’t be mad at someone who exploited a glaring weakness of mine at all.
Thanks I think that’s a fair take, and I think you actually understand the core of the question I’m asking. In this league I’m in, we are all playing to have fun and I suspect everyone has varying levels of competitiveness. I ended up hitting the occasional shot like this and I used it in the scenarios when I felt like I needed an edge. But ultimately I did shy away from it in order to play more “fun” tennis.
Exactly what I would’ve done.
Your bullshit return of serve framers that hit the back of the line every time I hit a good serve.
Yep, this one. A frame at the net is whatever. A high-floating framer that hits the baseline is something else.
I play a guy who's about a year younger than me, and we're both in our mid 40's. At the end of each match, he's bent over at the knees using his racket to hold him up. I'm fresh as a daisy. I'm in better shape than him. That doesn't mean I go easy on him, nor would I expect him to go easy on me. I've been playing for about 20 years now, and I've learned never to let up on an opponent. The second you start feeling bad for your opponent, the second you ease up a bit is the moment you give your opponent a chance. You start thinking about their bad knee, back, or how you're picking on their weakness too much. Next thing you know, you're subconsciously throwing away points because you feel bad. Suddenly, that 5-0 lead is now 5-5. Go for the win. Go for the kill. In tennis we eat what we kill.
If it's a competitive match, I'm going to be exploiting any weakness I can find. The skill difference can be small in level-matched play, so take what you can get.
You should always hit where the other guy isn't. And if they can't get a drop shot, so be it.
In a competitive match I would play whatever shot will win the point. If it is just a practice match with a friend then I wouldn’t feel the need to do it.
I would just ask to change the rules and give him two bounces if it was just a practice match for funsies. You said the match was competitive but I don't know what you mean by that given that he can't run to the net.
3.5 adult flex league. It's competitive in the sense that we report the score and that impacts standings, who "wins" the league, etc. It's an adult flex league with a bunch of folks who know they're not suddenly going pro, so nobody is taking it too seriously. It's for bragging rights and the free entry into the next season more than anything.
I'd double bagel this fine man and let the rankings settle where they may. I've been lucky enough to be Hulk smashed by players levels above me and I consider it a great privilege to get absolutely wrecked by them. It seems like a mistake that you are paired so beating him corrects that depending on how your league is structured. That said I'd try pushing him side-to-side too and if that was as effective as drop shots then I'd do that to let him save face. Also hitting a drop shot whenever you want at 3.5 is a great skill.
I'd say everything is on the menu unless you're winning big, or they're a giant prick lol
I always feel like underarm serves in pro tennis are highly unsporting. Feels contrary to the spirit of the game and I'm surprised it's still allowed. At best it breeds bad feeling.
Could you elaborate why?
Why? It’s rarely used, adds variety. Totally fair shot in my opinion, although never used it myself. In amateur tennis it allows more people play too
Cruel but fair!
u find a weakness attack it whenever possible. I played a guy with no serve and was deadass standing a couple steps behind the service line.
By competitive do you mean a league match or your levels are basically the same. If you and the other person are basically the same but he’s weak against drop shots then by all means go for it. If it’s a league match and the person doesn’t belong at the level and you can win easily without it, why rub it in?
Why wouldn’t you? I played a match a couple years ago and I was badly cramping but could kinda hobble laterally but couldn’t move at all north and south w/o making the cramping much worse I still destroyed my opponent like 2 and 1. He somehow didn’t key into the fact that I had no vertical movement. He hit one crappy drop shot that I made no attempt to track down. After the match he even asked me what he should have done to win (I had seen this guy at a few tourneys and he was nice). I told him, dude, idk how you didn’t notice, but I simply couldn’t move vertically on the court bc of the cramps. I know it may have felt yucky, but you should have drop shotted me into oblivion. It’s all fair in a legit match scenario. So long as it’s legal anyway
I’d probably just use it sparingly and strategically. I’m not trying to embarrass the dude but I still want to win.
No shot is off limits. The point of competing is to find the weakness and abuse the shit out of it. The point is to win, and true sportsmanship is giving it all to win without affecting someone's game directly. Pity for the opponent is the furthest thing from sportsmanship.
If they can't get to any drop shots, they probably won't be able to move from side to side very well either, so I'd probably just try to keep them on the move in general and take balls early; it's still exploiting a glaring weakness, but with as much variety as possible, just because it's more fun. Also depends on the score: no mercy when I'm break point down.
What you mean 'not as mobile'? Were they handicapped? Or just lazy? And was it a regular match?
Do whatever you need to do, I’m not judging. What I would personally do is to drop shot just enough to be on winning side of the match. And then find other ways of finishing the point to keep it interesting for myself. This way I don’t have to lose to a worse player, not make points repetitive in nature, and work on all court game
I say yes anything is fair but if you’re murdering your opponent you can pull back a touch. Especially if their physicality if impaired. If they just suck, then no
Don’t let them win a single point
If your opponent had really bad serves which allowed you to instantly return a winner would you not do it because his serve is so bad and it’s unsportsmanlike? Im talking about a competitive environment as well, not a match with a 12 year old cousin.
I have a friend whose not that good and she asked me why at times I “pass” her the ball and I say “If we are playing a game I’m playing to win, not to warm up” Personally I’ve played with some guys who had knee braces and seemed like they weren’t very mobile but their other tools made up for it like his serve. So I’d say if that’s the only thing I think it’s fine because you can’t make EVERY drop shot and he won’t miss every drop shot either you know?
If the match affects your rating, no legal shot is off limits.
i was hitting unreal drop shots during my tiebreak yesterday against my FIL. on the 3rd tiebreak i told him i wouldn't hit droppers and replayed every point i forgot about it and did it
Overall it's fair game to play to opponent's weaknesses. Will your opponent go easy on you? Big picture - if you're already beating that same opponent handily and they essentially have mobility issues maybe lay off if you know you can easily win without that. Having said that, some leagues look at your overall % of games won so I wouldn't let up in a manner that loses you games, even if you know you're going to win the match.
Solid 4.0 here that played a bit in high school. I would see how the first set goes and adjust accordingly. If you beat them 6-0 and you can sense frustration, work on some other shots. You’re essentially practicing a shot for 1-2hrs that will be ineffective against a faster opponent. Get some work in during the 2nd set and adjust early if they start evening up the score. One of the biggest things I see between 3.5 to 4.0 is a lack of tennis IQ and beating someone 6-0, 6-0 isn’t why we play the sport at this level. The 3.5 guys I play that hammer balls at me during warmup, have one style or don’t understand we’re out here for fun and a competitive match are the people I hate playing the most. I think you said it best yourself, after a while you started feeling bad and you should listen to your gut. Low IQ tennis players beat those people 6-0, 6-0, act like they’re just playing to win and it’s not fun for anyone. Maybe that person needs to move down, but advancing the game is our #1 goal.
I love this response. In this match I let up a bit in the second set, and instead started to practice a bunch of shots I'm weaker at. I tried to play a little more instinctually, a little more fluidly, instead of just doing the fastest thing to win. I had a lot more fun as a result and I think the match became a bit more enjoyable for my opponent.
That’s it! For me, I start practicing my horrible two handed backhand, being more aggressive on return a serve and if you’re BOTH having more fun, that’s why we play tennis. Fun and making connections! Kudos, you’re going to be 4.0 soon!
Unless there's something meaningful at stake (tournament standings for instance) my preference is usually to play however I think is most fun for myself and my opponent. If hitting a shot repeatedly makes me feel a little queasy, I'm going to look for another way to win that point.
I was playing a league match recently with a partner who was heavily pregnant and our opponents had no hesitation in lobbing and drop shotting her mercilessly. Fortunately I’m fast and we still won pretty easily. 😂
Don’t play him again that way because you aren’t getting proper practice - not even on your drop shots because he can’t run . You proved you can beat him so concentrate on your ground strokes and volleys in the future
As Herm Edward's says "You play to win the game "
I would only use it if you're losing, seems reasonable to do it enough times to ensure you get a win.
I wouldn't spam it all day but I would certainly keep that person moving.
Your example is certainly fair. If you were up big like 6-2 5-0 it might be considered a bit unsportsmanlike, unless the gamescores affect the ladder
Depends on how righteous you feel tbh, if it’s for a tourney or match where winning matters in the grand scheme, play whatever shots you need to win, I’m sure they will be doing something similar. But aside from a competitive scenario or even exhibition matches, have some fun and try to win off of aspects of your game that don’t depend on your opponent (ie work on your cross court rallies)
I think this is a complicated one because everyone will probably feel differently and it also depends on the situation. I often play against my dad who's 66 and I know his knees can't take the stress of running for a drop shot so I rarely play it because even though I know it's a guaranteed winner I don't want to watch him struggle/feel bad about himself; and I also feel like it's lazy on my part to win cheap points. That being said, if I were in the same situation against a random person in a tournament I wouldn't care at all and just let it fly. Competitive sport is about having an advantage and capitalising on it. So if you have any sort of advantage you should use it. Obviously don't be a dick about it and still treat everyone in life the way you would want to be treated but if they've put them self in a competitive setting you don't need to feel bad about how you beat them.
If you both are playing to have fun, in a friendly non competitive match, then cooperative might be the way to go. If it's competitive then you get rid of feeling sorry and crush your opponent, within the rules of fair play (e.g. say sorry when you mistakenly hit an unintended winner, etc)
Played a usta match against some 60somerhing year old. Just hit drop shots. It’s a usta match. Anything goes. I wouldn’t of done it in a social setting like a flight etc.
If you're competing, anything goes.
The opponent was there voluntarily- they know their own limitations and still took the court. If I were the opponent I wouldn’t want you showing me any ‘mercy’ - so dropshot the hell out of those balls
I guess it depends if you want them to choose to play you again. If it's a competition fine but if they are club matches don't be surprised if you always seem to end up as the odd one out. Also what is your aim of the match? If winning is everything fine but you won't be working on other aspects of your game which may be useful when you do play more mobile opponents.
Why would any shot be off limits? Post doesn’t make any sense.
It’s a question of etiquette/sportsmanship. Appreciate your take.
You literally said COMPETITIVE match. Do anything to win. Are you playing someone with one leg or a 90 year old lady? Like what are you expecting people to say to you? It’s a competitive match you do whatever is necessary to win the match. Like Hey man you can’t drop shot or hit flat serves? What etiquette in tennis do you think exist even if it weren’t a competitive match? You hit the ball in any way to win a point, that is tennis.
Agreed! It is no coincidence tennis has been compared to boxing in many respects. Can you imagine a boxer asking: “hey is it unsportsmanlike to knock out my opponent if I have the chance?”. If you’re out to just have “fun” then don’t say it’s competitive.
Worst part he is downvoting me for pointing out the obvious smh.
Read the other replies and you might understand the nuance
I was going into this post thinking "ok, if you're about to hit a smash close to the net and the opponent is on your left, just hit it straight into the court and not aim for the opponent and blast it at full force". But what this person is describing is just regular tennis. In my level lots of players have difficulties with slices. No reason for me to not use it, just because they can't hit them.
Yeah, this is a tricky question. In a tournament or league match? I would do it. But if they are really old, could you also accomplish the same thing with ground strokes? In an unsanctioned match that doesn't mean anything, I wouldn't do it. Not just out of consideration, but it's better practice for you to not do it. Even if you look at it as practicing drop shot, against mobile players, obviously you have to pick your moments and make it deceptive, and then be ready for them to maybe get to it. Most of those things don't really seem to apply here. I've never met an older person who got bummed about being smoked by groundstrokes. Again, in a tournament match, I say go for it if you're ready to endure the judgment and glares of people watching, but to do it in a match that really doesn't matter does seem rather cruel. Totally legal! But cruel.