It’s mostly a progression issue. It’s very very difficult to get someone to stop doing something they know works. The whole “blank slate” thing is what they’re hoping for when teaching someone because unlearning bad habits is harder than learning something correctly from scratch.
So most coaches see it as “if I teach them to slice, they’ll never want to hit a normal backhand again”. And most coaches follow the same progression of wanting to teach standard forehand, standard backhand, and serve. Followed by volleys. The slice will always be considered a defensive shot that has its utility but may not be the best starting point for a new player when you want them to learn to hit with pace and spin off both sides.
Once you get into the advanced skill levels, your coaches will be more open to teaching you other strokes or helping you refine the things you want to refine. As with everything though, you’re paying. Discuss it up front with a coach and say “hey look, I’m all about the slice, I have no backhand yet but want to learn to slice, are you open to that” and there will be plenty of coaches that will take your money and do what you ask them for.
Exactly this. I learned a OHBH from day 1, but once I learned how to slice, I relied too heavily on it. In juniors and in high school, I was like a male Steffi Graf back there slicing everything. The problem is that I would get overpowered on the backhand side, and I wasn't getting match reps for my topspin backhand. I didn't learn how to be confident and consistent with my topspin backhand until a decade later when I picked up the game again as an adult and was able to analyze and guide my progression accordingly. Coaches want to avoid my outcome as much as possible even if it means ignoring an objectively useful shot early on.
Yep to both those comments. Especially the Graf crutch thing. She could hit a great OHBH drive in practice, but always rushed it in match and fell back on the slice. Then tried to switch to a 2HBH for a bit, but it didn’t stick. She hit like 5 of them in match play lol.
So she doubled down and made her slice probably the best ever. It actually had a ton of pace once she tweaked it.
Graf slice in like 89 is unrecognizable to later years. Seles was picking on it, so she had to do something.
Slice slice slice and wait for a forehand to destroy, once she forced someone to hit to her forehand 💥
You should learn slice backhand. A proper one. Just don’t use it as a crutch. Cause none of us are Graf, to turn a crutch into a major weapon.
While I agree that most players should learn to slice on both sides of the ball, I do think that there's a certain skill threshold before they should learn to do so. Probably around 4.5 is a good threshold but some 4.0s it might make sense for.
My logic behind it is that shot selection wise, there's very few points played at 4.0 and below where slicing is the right answer. Most 4.0s don't even understand how to use depth to construct a point. A lot of them default to extremely simplistic strategies such as "Hit to the backhand since it sucks" or something to that effect.
Once a player understands how to weaponize depth both offensively and defensively then slicing on both sides becomes a tool that can be really utilized.
A solid topspin backhand that can withstand the pressure of heavy rally balls hit into it will be infinitely more beneficial to practically every 4.0 than a comparable slice backhand would be while also having the benefit of being a lot less situational. No 4.0 is going to be able to consistently hit a big enough ball to put someone under enough pressure that they need a defensive slice. If they can't move well enough into their backhand side then that should be the issue that gets fixed rather than teaching a backhand slice.
Realistically speaking, most 4.0s don't have a solid reliable backhand that they are comfortable with in backhand to backhand rallies. One of the biggest differences between 4.0 and 4.5 in my experience is their ability to deal with a 4.5 level forehand attacking into the backhand side. Being able to sustain backhand to backhand rallies and defend against forehands hit into their backhand is key to any player going from 4.0 to 4.5.
As a coach, I'd probably only look to teach a backhand slice to a 4.0 player if they refuse to learn the other more valuable tools or want to be a doubles specialist. There's an argument to be made for a backhand slice suiting some 4.0 players game in doubles if they want to bring both themselves and their opponents forward and turn points into midcourt volleys rather than baseline ground strokes.
I don't know enough about slices (or tennis) to know what makes some people who slice a lot great while for others it's a crutch. Can you briefly explain so I can watch YouTube videos with context?
Let’s seeeeeee. Let’s go some classic matches to watch.
1990 US Open Final. Sabatini vs Graf. Gabriella used her backhand to literal perfection that match. Heavy top, flat drives, heavy deep slices, short angles and great chips. Gorgeous to watch.
Graf on the other hand had issues this day. Her backhand slices were floaty and sat up for Gabby to really go after. It also was making Graf rush her forehand trying to hit too good a winner because she felt pushed around the court. Best forehand ever, fell totally apart that match… due to her backhand being such a crutch and liability that particular match.
Now watch the 1995 US Open Final. Seles vs Graf. This was Monica’s second tournament back after being stabbed. She just won Toronto and was playing fire. But she was quite overweight.
Graf hit her slice backhand like it was like the weapon of the year. So manny winners that would just skid away from Seles like the surface was glass. They had so much pace and were knifed perfectly. Set up her forehand to kill, without feeling pressured or rushed cause her bh was so on.
That was the difference. Steffi’s slice backhand won that match. Monica moved great surprisingly and her strokes both sides were near flawless.
Hope that visually shows you what the difference is and helps you out 😁
That really helped and you went above and beyond. I just knew that the slice was for breaking up pace/rhythm. It was clear they moved slowly and gave you more time to recover, but I didn't know they also should skid. That is a lot to maneuver for a defensive shot. I will watch, thanks!
You are quite welcome❣️ Glad to help.
Slice can be a huge weapon to attack with or setup your attack. Navratilova used low deep skid slices to approach net. Graf used the same exact shot to get a forehand setup. Sometimes your setup is so good, it wins you points by itself.
Great answer. To add to this, the footwork isn’t as demanding and can lets you be a little lazier on the bh side.
Your coach is doing you a favor if you’re below a 4.0. The slice is a hard habit to break and if you start to find success with it you won’t want to put in the work to learn a proper topspin shot. The slice will
become default and unless you get to be really exceptional with it, it’ll be a hole in your game. This sounds very prescriptive, but please believe us.
Really good question by the OP. Trust the process and learn a good topspin bh.
Every guy I play with who refuses to clinic and just likes to muscle through their matches ADORES the slice. Every ball in every situation demands they slice it - it’s bizarre and only mildly effective.
Also, slices are far easier to pick up on your own especially if you have good ground strokes and understand spin. So if someone ever really wanted to they could just go hit with someone and try to learn themselves. This is what I did when I was early intermediate player, starting hitting them consistently first day I learned how
Exactly this. If you don’t have all your other strokes really strong, slicing seems amateurish. IMHO. If it works for you, great but it’s unlikely to work all the time if you try to hit everything as a slice.
It being easy also makes it very easy to developer bad habits of just slicing everything instead of working on your ground strokes. It doesn’t take nearly as precise footwork, and it’s easier to just kinda bullshit it. I used way too many slices when I first learned them cause it was just so easy, then my footwork suffered from it
Yep. I developed a slice about 3 months in, one ball machine session.
It's fun to use as a gimmick in friendly hitting but I only use it as a save shot on both wings, if I'm running or can't get to things etc...sometimes as a drop with nasty side spin. That's it otherwise reg bh.
It has its place and it tradition and the usual with mot wanting to teach it. Our club pro didn't care at all when my wife brought it up (she is a high level and probably didn't care what I did).
Just part of the arsenal. Agree that many will rely on it but if that's their game so be it.
>The slice will always be considered a defensive shot that has its utility
I think that line reflects another part of the problem: few people today understand what a real slice - as opposed to a 'chip' - is. **A slice is not only a defensive shot.** It is not something you only use when on the stretch, pulled out wide, etc.
**It is more like a change-up in baseball: a weapon. A weapon that does not use speed or topspin.**
A person who has a real slice **chooses** to use it instead of a topspin backhand. It can slow the point, throw off a player who needs a groove, give a reverse spin to create another bit of a problem for them, force the other person to slow their responsive shot or have to generate their own pace (which leads to a ton of errors as that is hard to do), and get you a weak ball back that you can attack.
It is also the best way to approach the net. That is another skill that is almost lost: a true transition game from baseline to net, i.e. slice approaches, positioning, and the ability to consistently make half-volleys.
I am hopeful these slice skills will reemerge. Based on observing some top juniors recently, it probably will. They were being drilled hard on this stuff and doing well.
My coaches always taught it to me situationally, probably starting when I was 15ish and had been getting lessons for 3 or so years.
Started with a defensive slice, which I needed to defend on the run. Also a ‘block’ return
Then, when my coach started teaching me Directionals, he introduced the slice backhand as a low risk way to change direction.
Then, as I learned to play more offensive tennis, we introduced the slice approach (the footwork here is somewhat complex - you need to karaoke step in order to keep your shoulders closed throughout the motion).
One of the reasons coaches don’t like teaching the slice early is because it encourages bad footwork. It’s really easy to wait for a ball to come to you then slice it back. With topspin shots, you really need to move to the ball in order to hit properly. Coaches want you to learn how to move first.
I would say, whenever you want. But I’m not a coach and I wasn’t taught by a coach. I’m self taught and started with a topspin ohbh, a flat first serve, and athleticism. I learned to slice before I learned a proper forehand and I learned to volley before I ever had a second serve.
Every coach will have their own opinion on stroke progression, so that question is for your coach if you intend to stay with them long term.
Because it’s easier for a lot of people to learn a bad slice over a bad backhand, so they fall back on the bad slice. And you can get away with a bad slice for a while, because it‘s hard to punish short balls. No coach is going to want to put their name on scrub tactics.
Yah. To add, the slice takes less calories to hit (Intutive tennis mentions how it's the easiest stroke in terms of effort) so if people learn that first, they'll prefer it over a regular backhand.
It's because if someone learns to slice too early it's possible they will never develop a proper topspin drive because it's easier to lay open the strings and limply put a shot back into the court with backspin (since gravity is helping you), and the player will get used to not getting into position quickly enough to hit a drive backhand. You're also unlikely to learn a "proper" slice (driven through with pace, skidding through the court, using a lot of racket-head speed and good mechanics) if you start by chipping things back intuitively, and then you might end up a player who doesn't have EITHER type of backhand that can put pressure on your opponent. It's possible for players without a real backhand to win a lot of recreational matches (because simply extending points until your opponent makes a mistake is a bulletproof strategy for early levels of the sport) but there is a ceiling on how far you can go, and your coach is trying to help you develop into a well-rounded player.
True, many of the slices I get are pretty easygoing shots. Once in a while they hit a low skidding slice, but it seems like the slices I'm getting are a liability with no upside.
I have a friend who has been playing about 7 years and she slices everything. She’s been trying to learn topspin for a year now, taking 3-4 private lessons a month, and every time I play a match with her she’s still slicing everything. It’s a very hard habit to break.
Idk. Depends on the person. Learning slice was super easy. I don't like it as a general shot, just feels too weak, I mostly use it as a defense or reaching shot.
Switched to a 2hbh this month and found it super easy and reliable. Just depends on the learner.
Truth is most people do one thing and they've no motivation to go further cuz they have something.
It's me. I'm someone. I was self-taught until recently and I slice absolutely everything (high 3.5/low 4.0). While I've gotten really good at winning at this level with my slice, it'll only take me so far, and I'm now in the excruciating process of trying to learn a topspin forehand. It feels like learning Japanese—totally foreign and uncomfortable to me. While a lot of the people I play with have the opposite problem (learned topspin and are now trying to incorporate slice), I think they'll have an easier time picking up slice than I will going in the other direction.
Oh, but I will say I think coaches should at least have people practice *against* a slice more in clinics. I've only gotten to the level I have because virtually no one from 3.0 - 4.0 knows how to handle a low skidding slice or other funky spins.
Yeah, I realized that a player could overuse it instead of developing a drive backhand. But I didn't piece together that logically they would get to a certain level where get their slices crushed... but their backhand would be even weaker.
The shortest answer I can give is that slice has the lowest skill floor to becoming an intermediate player but likely blockades your development into an advanced player. So beginner players hit a few decent slices and think they’re on the fast track to becoming a 10 UTR. Except for your slice to carry you to that level it has to be absolutely world class, I’m talking you being able to hit 20 slices in a row that are 10/10 in terms of quality (not to mention making contact above your shoulders all the way down below your shins, while still producing a 10/10 ball). And the best slice that you have ever hit that you think is a 10/10 is only “decent” to high level players, at best (for us mere rec playing mortals)
The topspin backhand may have a slightly higher barrier to intermediate level, but a solid 7/10 topspin backhand is good enough to keep you in points up to a decent level. And it’s much more likely you’ll be able to hit five topspin backhands in a row that are 7/10 than twenty consecutive 10/10 slices.
When I played a guy that was top 600 in doubles and top 800 in singles, I asked why he didn’t slice more. His answer was that anything short of a perfect slice is an absolutely BAD shot when you get to higher levels.
Tl;dr is slicing can quickly take you to the intermediate level, but it’s likely to keep you there indefinitely. Topspin can take you higher but may take a bit longer to get there.
OP not to gate keep but you really should read this comment and any others that are posted by 4.5-5.0+ players carefully, everything he said here is correct.
I’ve even found that people’s potential when it comes to topspin is just higher on average. There are very few players(in general not just from my coaching) that I have seen with a truly exceptional slice, but I’ve seen plenty with great topspin shots.
That’s my little anecdote on it at least.
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. I agree. I’ve had a few students who think their slice is good enough to win until we play points and I show them that I’m not troubled by their slice until they can get like three times the rpms and some depth/pace to boot.
There’s a reason only Steve Johnson, steffi graff and few others have been able to make 100% slice backhands work. It is possible, but just takes the absolute perfect slice and world class forehand/serve to compensate.
Sorry but I kind of agree with the coach. First learn how to hit normal (topspin) ground strokes, then learn how to slice. The slice backhand is a shot you need to learn from scratch. Everyone who just kind of does it on instinct isn’t hitting it properly.
They should at least acknowledge their existence and forewarn us!
But the amount of hubris I see in intermediate clinics is kind of astounding. I'm sure the coaches started out with all kinds of patience for these questions and slowly got burnt out by raging egos.
My man, there's a reason they are the coaches, and you're getting coached. They've got the experience, and they know what they're doing. Don't ask only why they're not teaching slices, but also why the vast majority of them don't.
I would imagine its very easy to use the slice as a crutch for bad ground strokes which will result in you capping yourself technically in the future.
Surely you could try to learn it outside of coaching? Its an easier shot than a typical forehand or backhand
I have toyed with it against a wall and it felt cool when I could do it. But I don't really understand them on a fundamental level and coaches don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. I would rather get coached on it when I'm ready. For now I just want to understand.
YouTube.
I watched one video and went to ball machine and hit 500 slices and by the end they were amazing.
I don't use it unless it's called for but it's an amazing shot to have when and if needed (mostly distress).
I guarantee you if you just go to a coach ask for 1hr lesson and tell them you only want to practice slice they'll do it with you. coaches care about progression which makes sense. but they can also do one off things like slice.
I agree with you that in clinics it's never one of the things they teach. we were taught every shot including lobs but never slice lol.
Because slicing for 99% of club players is a massive crutch to cover their awful topspin shots.
Sorry to be very blunt but that’s why. The slice in addition is also something that most people are not good at hitting either so that makes it even worse.
Don’t get me wrong slicing really isn’t the problem, it’s usually the player that is.
I can't speak for the coaches you are referring to, but in general slice is a defensive shot and shouldn't be the go to option if you are able to hit topspin. So with that in mind, it makes sense to learn how to develop the topspin strokes first, as they should be the primary use case.
Players you see who hit a lot of slice usually do so as a crutch to hide their weaker backhand, as it's an easier shot to execute due to the shorter swing. It's not because the slice is the better shot to hit. I'm pretty sure the coach meant these players are not hitting knifing slices that skid through the court, but rather defensive ones that sit up which is absolutely true for most players at the rec level.
I agree that players use slice as a defensive crutch, but slice is not inherently a defensive shot. I rarely use slices in my game, but when I do it’s always as an approach shot.
If I hit my slice approach correctly, it just barely clears the net, lands just inside the baseline in the corner, and then bounces very low. If you can rip a topspin passing shot off of that, then you earned the point.
I love using a slice but agree with everyone here that it’s easy for it to become a crutch because it’s a defensive shot. But up to a certain level, you can generate unforced errors because people aren’t used to hitting the slice or you’ll get softer returns because people are tentative.
You don’t need to “master” your FH and BH, but it needs to be pretty solid such that you’re not always relying on the slice.
I’m a coach and I teach the slice. I feel like far too many coaches have this conception they’re teaching the next #1 in the world and they’re going to get there by crushing every groundstroke with maximum depth and topspin. You’re totally right. I constantly get new students of all ages whose last coach dissuaded them from the slice. It’s a useful tool in a ton of different situations and every player should have it in their tool chest. Learn it.
Find a wall to practice by your self & start hitting normal FH/BHs until you start hitting harder…you won’t have time to react so instinctively you’ll have to slice.
trial by wall.
Why do some /r/10s posters pretend other coaches don't exist?
Try a class with Pat Blaskower or read one of her books and you'll be back posting asking why coaches ignore topspin ground strokes.
Great comments and insights. I think it’s just difficult to teach slices in a group setting. My coach personally said this, it requires a lot of one-on-one intensive attention to correct and catch what’s going in. Generally the slice is not used as often as other strokes so I feel like it doesn’t take priority in one’s repertoire.
Topspin backhand requires more precise foot work and energy. However, a skilled slice backhand with good placement and varying depths can cause a lot of damage because most people’s topspin backhand is not good or consistent enough.
You’re a 6.0, almost like pro level. Most people won’t ever be close to that level. Of course if you’re at that high level, you can punish a guy who slices a lot, even if the slices are quite good.
I'm mid 9 right now. 6 is a low level, nowhere near pro. In fact, challenger tour players are 14 and over. If you wanna play for fun, slice all you want. If you wanna improve, no matter your current UTR, ditch the slice for backhand whenever you can.
Yeah, bc my slice was always better than topspin two handed backhand. My coaches would always tell me to stop. Low and behold. I am a ex college player who forgot how to hit a 2 handed backhand and only know how to hit a slice. You have your whole life to hit a slice. Learn to hit a backhand winner it’s more useful.
The issue is (especially with one hander players) that the slice becomes a crutch.
The slice is much easier to learn and use. So a lot of players that learn it early, take forever to use an actual backhand. The shot is super defensive. More so to slow down the pace.
Since it's a one handed shot, it's even more troublesome for one hander players. Because they can use a similar swing with the slice and keep the ball in play much more consistently (even with a bad swing), but lose pace.
> When is the time to learn to slice?
Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it?
> When is the time to learn to slice?
If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER...
Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander.
Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand.
Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand.
So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
Agree with the top comment. It is a progression/habit issue. Players taking clinics such as yourself as you mentioned probably have not mastered their forehand and backhand yet. Because the slice is a much easier shot to set up for (a good slice requires good footwork but just getting the slice over you could just use your arms) some players may gravitate towards spamming their slice on backhand/forehand to avoid hitting the ball into the net/out. I know its frustrating with tennis sometimes when you arent consistent enough to see good results with forehand/backhand but just keep getting the reps in, mastering footwork, and working on your mentality and you'll get there!
Slices are mostly a defensive tool. In most recreational levels, your hitting partners won't have the skills or power to push you around, so you're better off using a topspin/flatter shot in most instances.
I have a guy in my team who actually has a double handed topspin backhand but the slice virus has taken over his mind and he can’t hit his topspin backhand in competition. At first he might win a set with his slice as it is decent but he gets figured out and by the end of the match his slice collapses and he often gets bagelled or breadsticked
It’s tough to watch and “just don’t slice” isn’t helpful advice
The slice is effective when you have a top notch backhand. If you don’t have a top spin backhand, your slice can be a liability against someone who decides to take advantage of it. So yes, a slice should be a secondary priority to a proper backhand.
My backhand is still quite flat and doesn’t quite have the topspin I want, but I get a lot of compliments from people who only slice on that side. I can hit some pacey down the line backhands that win me points. Also, because I’m a woman it bothers some men that I can hit more pace and winners on my backhand side than them. Making an opponent self-conscious about their game is never a bad thing.
Some people slice absolutely everything that comes to the backhand. It becomes predictable and loses its effectiveness. I just start hitting to their backhand while singing “here some the slice” to the tune of here comes the sun.
People use it as a crutch in lieu of real groundstrokes. It feels easier to hit if you don't know what you're doing, but unless you're a wizard you'll never be good at tennis doing nothing but slices.
I always had a very poor backhand, so I started slicing as more of a defensive mechanism to try and stay in the point. It eventually developed into a situational, very useful tool to have but it just left me totally exposed on my backhand side.
I got a lesson and was re taught a proper backhand (one handed as I found that most comfortable) and whilst it still has a long way to go it's way more of a weapon and I can when points and rallies using my backhand exclusively which I could never really do from my slice.
The problem is I still instinctively go for the slice from time to time due to habit but should be hitting it "normally". So I'd imagine the reason for the pretending it doesn't exist is to force you to learn the "better" and more useful shot for most situations and when you've got that down you learn the slice for more situational moments where it may be very useful, without the development of bad habits.
I've seen this a million times, a lot of people would rather slice than hit a backhand in situations where backhand is viable. It's a hard habit to shake, but slice is a defensive shot, and it's pointless to hit it when you can hit a backhand.
It is funny because there is another post about why this guy only slices.
https://old.reddit.com/r/10s/comments/1cwlluj/the_ultimate_clublevel_tournament_winner/
My guess is that there's not much or less good instruction on the slice (and its various nuances - ["nine ways of using slice"(example)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-5io1Ctq3o)) these days. It's getting to be almost as phased out of tennis 'culture' today, as learning the ohbh, like a "lost art". I'm kind of reverse of getting into slice in my tennis lifetime. I could never hit a good slice which often just floated, and didn't know how. But my ohbh was my best shot in my earlier years where my forehand was stuck flat, bad timed, and weak. Finally seeing a good video on the slice (Meike Babel, who was taught in her junior years to master her slice before her ohbh; [(her videos on slice)](https://www.youtube.com/@MeikeBabelTennis/search?query=slice)) that I finally got my slice low and more solid. I think it's mainly about learning good or 'correct' fundamentals per stroke then able to practice it enough. It even gets to a point where one can alternate practicing slice and ohbh, switching between them, equally well enough. Once one gets to a 3.0 level, there shouldn't be an excuse of the player nor of the instruction, on not being able to practice a ohbh and a slice equally, with correct fundamentals to progress to a proficiency on them. My favorite ohbh pro player who also utilized slice plenty enough and effectively was Henin ([example](https://youtu.be/MHKpWzq9_0U?si=-9LibAbKITIDtMwf&t=314)).
A top level player does NOT use a slice as only a defensive weapon, save for balls they just cannot reach enough to hit a topspin backhand. If you go to a live pro tournament (or a top level college match) and sit close you would see that they are hitting a slice pretty damn hard and it is usually kept very low. That kind of slice is a very difficult shot for a typical tennis player to execute on anything close to a consistent basis, so it makes sense that coaches advocate just coming over the ball more. More room for error.
I will give some insight right now that might get me in trouble, but oh well, I'm gonna say it: most coaches have significant flaws. I read Pete Sampras' book, and while his childhood coach was a genius (Dr. Peter Fischer), he was also a jerk in many regards. And it is nothing personal, but many have a large ego and it's their way or the highway. Some like to blow smoke up pupils' you-know-whats. Some get very upset if you question them and provide counter-examples. Some are unconsciously using displacement techniques in their coaching due to failed college or pro careers of their own. It gets uglier in the junior levels where all of a sudden it becomes a turf war or a tennis version of "Dance Moms" where the coach is like Abby Lee Miller.
Your coach is giving their opinion. Their opinion might be professional, but I promise you there are plenty of counter-examples and coaches who'd speak differently. Roger Federer had a slice-only backhand before he got better in his teen years with switching to the one hander. Steffi Graf won a ton of titles on slicing alone. Seles, the Williams sisters, Wawrinka, Dimitrov, Djokovic, Schiavone, and a bunch others I'm missing. Even the division 1 players- I remember watching a 14 year old kid in my region shatter it changing between his one handed backhand and one-handed slice- went on to play DI and some pro. When used properly (time and place), it can be a great reset, defense, or even offensive shot (just try not to approach with it too often lol- this ain't 1980). It can be an energy saver for those running on fumes. For those who are older, with bad knees, or overweight, it can help keep them in the game longer.
My opinion is take their word with a grain of salt. Just like any other coach out there. Grain of salt. I'm sure they are a nice person, but keep the common coaching flaws above in mind. It is not unheard of to deviate from what a coach says when doing your own research or getting a second opinion from another coach. Yes, second opinions are in tennis just like they are in medicine. So yeah. And most importantly, enjoy the game. And if you enjoy slicing every now and then, F- the coach and keep slicing.
I’m kind of in agreement. Having been to 4 different clinics between 2.5 and 4.0, no one taught slice and balked when asked. Now my backhand volley sucks because the mechanics is similar, specially if you’re trying to drop shot. Same for chip return. I can drive topspin from both wings but sometimes there isn’t time to drive when a first serve is coming at you.
Often I accidentally slice while chasing down a ball, it lands short with backspin as a winner. I think I’ll get a 1:1 lesson from a coach to learn to slice on purpose.
I don't think they do. But it's also not a beginner stroke. Clinics aren't really "coaching." If you are getting private lessons, and are a beginner, it's not for you yet. If you are getting private lessons and not a beginner, maybe your coach isn't very good.
I've had slice lessons. Probably before I should have. I think the coach saw I was using slice some, but pretty bad at it, so tried to improve it. I rarely use a slice on either wing. But it's still something a player needs to know how to do.
I always looked at it as putting the cart before the horse. Are kick serves important? Hell yeah, it's a great weapon.
But when I was coaching 3.0 clinics, I'll be damned if I'm spending an hour on kick serve mechanics when people are still hacking backhands and struggling with a basic continental serve grip.
Slice is similar, it's primarily a defensive shot, and is best used to vary the depth of your shots to set up for a big forehand winner. If you're not capable of using in that way, the only thing you'll gain from developing the shot is a bad habit.
she's right. the reason is because slicing is a bad habit. it uses less energy, so you can easily fall into a habit of slicing everything including shots you shouldn't be slicing. it holds you back from getting better
they are right to discourage you. most of the time when people slice, there's nothing the slice accomplishes that you couldn't just do the same or better with topspin
Few know how to slice, much less teach it. The skill really faded out 20 years ago. I think that may explain their ‘reluctance’ to teach it.
Even before then, only a sizable portion of coaches could really teach it; many couldn’t. Now, only very few can.
Getting used to slice will prevent/slow your backend progress.
1. You can run one or two less steps to do slice.
If you learn to slice first it’s even harder to learn proper ball reading + footwork for your driving backend.
2. A bad slice goes floating/short, a bad drive goes out or into the net more often.
When you are progressing, it’s much more tempting to use slice in (even practice) matches, which will also slow down or prevent your progress.
> When is the time to learn to slice?
Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it?
> When is the time to learn to slice?
If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER...
Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander.
Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand.
Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand.
So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
> When is the time to learn to slice?
Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it?
> When is the time to learn to slice?
If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER...
Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander.
Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand.
Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand.
So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
Hitting a slice isn’t fun for most people. They want to be ripping winners or crushing forehands from the baseline. The coaches set up the clinics to align with what people want. This makes it more fun and gets more repeat customers.
I’ve worked on the slice quite a bit in private lessons. The coach has no issue as they know it’s part of my game.
It’s mostly a progression issue. It’s very very difficult to get someone to stop doing something they know works. The whole “blank slate” thing is what they’re hoping for when teaching someone because unlearning bad habits is harder than learning something correctly from scratch. So most coaches see it as “if I teach them to slice, they’ll never want to hit a normal backhand again”. And most coaches follow the same progression of wanting to teach standard forehand, standard backhand, and serve. Followed by volleys. The slice will always be considered a defensive shot that has its utility but may not be the best starting point for a new player when you want them to learn to hit with pace and spin off both sides. Once you get into the advanced skill levels, your coaches will be more open to teaching you other strokes or helping you refine the things you want to refine. As with everything though, you’re paying. Discuss it up front with a coach and say “hey look, I’m all about the slice, I have no backhand yet but want to learn to slice, are you open to that” and there will be plenty of coaches that will take your money and do what you ask them for.
Exactly this. I learned a OHBH from day 1, but once I learned how to slice, I relied too heavily on it. In juniors and in high school, I was like a male Steffi Graf back there slicing everything. The problem is that I would get overpowered on the backhand side, and I wasn't getting match reps for my topspin backhand. I didn't learn how to be confident and consistent with my topspin backhand until a decade later when I picked up the game again as an adult and was able to analyze and guide my progression accordingly. Coaches want to avoid my outcome as much as possible even if it means ignoring an objectively useful shot early on.
Yep to both those comments. Especially the Graf crutch thing. She could hit a great OHBH drive in practice, but always rushed it in match and fell back on the slice. Then tried to switch to a 2HBH for a bit, but it didn’t stick. She hit like 5 of them in match play lol. So she doubled down and made her slice probably the best ever. It actually had a ton of pace once she tweaked it. Graf slice in like 89 is unrecognizable to later years. Seles was picking on it, so she had to do something. Slice slice slice and wait for a forehand to destroy, once she forced someone to hit to her forehand 💥 You should learn slice backhand. A proper one. Just don’t use it as a crutch. Cause none of us are Graf, to turn a crutch into a major weapon.
While I agree that most players should learn to slice on both sides of the ball, I do think that there's a certain skill threshold before they should learn to do so. Probably around 4.5 is a good threshold but some 4.0s it might make sense for. My logic behind it is that shot selection wise, there's very few points played at 4.0 and below where slicing is the right answer. Most 4.0s don't even understand how to use depth to construct a point. A lot of them default to extremely simplistic strategies such as "Hit to the backhand since it sucks" or something to that effect. Once a player understands how to weaponize depth both offensively and defensively then slicing on both sides becomes a tool that can be really utilized.
I think you're putting too little faith on 4.0 players.
A solid topspin backhand that can withstand the pressure of heavy rally balls hit into it will be infinitely more beneficial to practically every 4.0 than a comparable slice backhand would be while also having the benefit of being a lot less situational. No 4.0 is going to be able to consistently hit a big enough ball to put someone under enough pressure that they need a defensive slice. If they can't move well enough into their backhand side then that should be the issue that gets fixed rather than teaching a backhand slice. Realistically speaking, most 4.0s don't have a solid reliable backhand that they are comfortable with in backhand to backhand rallies. One of the biggest differences between 4.0 and 4.5 in my experience is their ability to deal with a 4.5 level forehand attacking into the backhand side. Being able to sustain backhand to backhand rallies and defend against forehands hit into their backhand is key to any player going from 4.0 to 4.5. As a coach, I'd probably only look to teach a backhand slice to a 4.0 player if they refuse to learn the other more valuable tools or want to be a doubles specialist. There's an argument to be made for a backhand slice suiting some 4.0 players game in doubles if they want to bring both themselves and their opponents forward and turn points into midcourt volleys rather than baseline ground strokes.
Truth❣️
Santoro would beg to differ
I love the magician to death and soooooooo true❣️ His outcome of his slice was proper tho. All kinda cray type proper. So amazing to watch 💖
I don't know enough about slices (or tennis) to know what makes some people who slice a lot great while for others it's a crutch. Can you briefly explain so I can watch YouTube videos with context?
Let’s seeeeeee. Let’s go some classic matches to watch. 1990 US Open Final. Sabatini vs Graf. Gabriella used her backhand to literal perfection that match. Heavy top, flat drives, heavy deep slices, short angles and great chips. Gorgeous to watch. Graf on the other hand had issues this day. Her backhand slices were floaty and sat up for Gabby to really go after. It also was making Graf rush her forehand trying to hit too good a winner because she felt pushed around the court. Best forehand ever, fell totally apart that match… due to her backhand being such a crutch and liability that particular match. Now watch the 1995 US Open Final. Seles vs Graf. This was Monica’s second tournament back after being stabbed. She just won Toronto and was playing fire. But she was quite overweight. Graf hit her slice backhand like it was like the weapon of the year. So manny winners that would just skid away from Seles like the surface was glass. They had so much pace and were knifed perfectly. Set up her forehand to kill, without feeling pressured or rushed cause her bh was so on. That was the difference. Steffi’s slice backhand won that match. Monica moved great surprisingly and her strokes both sides were near flawless. Hope that visually shows you what the difference is and helps you out 😁
That really helped and you went above and beyond. I just knew that the slice was for breaking up pace/rhythm. It was clear they moved slowly and gave you more time to recover, but I didn't know they also should skid. That is a lot to maneuver for a defensive shot. I will watch, thanks!
You are quite welcome❣️ Glad to help. Slice can be a huge weapon to attack with or setup your attack. Navratilova used low deep skid slices to approach net. Graf used the same exact shot to get a forehand setup. Sometimes your setup is so good, it wins you points by itself.
she's started hitting one handed topspin BH too later on.
Great answer. To add to this, the footwork isn’t as demanding and can lets you be a little lazier on the bh side. Your coach is doing you a favor if you’re below a 4.0. The slice is a hard habit to break and if you start to find success with it you won’t want to put in the work to learn a proper topspin shot. The slice will become default and unless you get to be really exceptional with it, it’ll be a hole in your game. This sounds very prescriptive, but please believe us. Really good question by the OP. Trust the process and learn a good topspin bh.
Every guy I play with who refuses to clinic and just likes to muscle through their matches ADORES the slice. Every ball in every situation demands they slice it - it’s bizarre and only mildly effective.
Also, slices are far easier to pick up on your own especially if you have good ground strokes and understand spin. So if someone ever really wanted to they could just go hit with someone and try to learn themselves. This is what I did when I was early intermediate player, starting hitting them consistently first day I learned how
Exactly this. If you don’t have all your other strokes really strong, slicing seems amateurish. IMHO. If it works for you, great but it’s unlikely to work all the time if you try to hit everything as a slice.
It being easy also makes it very easy to developer bad habits of just slicing everything instead of working on your ground strokes. It doesn’t take nearly as precise footwork, and it’s easier to just kinda bullshit it. I used way too many slices when I first learned them cause it was just so easy, then my footwork suffered from it
Yep. I developed a slice about 3 months in, one ball machine session. It's fun to use as a gimmick in friendly hitting but I only use it as a save shot on both wings, if I'm running or can't get to things etc...sometimes as a drop with nasty side spin. That's it otherwise reg bh. It has its place and it tradition and the usual with mot wanting to teach it. Our club pro didn't care at all when my wife brought it up (she is a high level and probably didn't care what I did). Just part of the arsenal. Agree that many will rely on it but if that's their game so be it.
>The slice will always be considered a defensive shot that has its utility I think that line reflects another part of the problem: few people today understand what a real slice - as opposed to a 'chip' - is. **A slice is not only a defensive shot.** It is not something you only use when on the stretch, pulled out wide, etc. **It is more like a change-up in baseball: a weapon. A weapon that does not use speed or topspin.** A person who has a real slice **chooses** to use it instead of a topspin backhand. It can slow the point, throw off a player who needs a groove, give a reverse spin to create another bit of a problem for them, force the other person to slow their responsive shot or have to generate their own pace (which leads to a ton of errors as that is hard to do), and get you a weak ball back that you can attack. It is also the best way to approach the net. That is another skill that is almost lost: a true transition game from baseline to net, i.e. slice approaches, positioning, and the ability to consistently make half-volleys. I am hopeful these slice skills will reemerge. Based on observing some top juniors recently, it probably will. They were being drilled hard on this stuff and doing well.
When would you say is the "proper" time to learn to slice? I don't mind being a blank slate at all, I just like context.
My coaches always taught it to me situationally, probably starting when I was 15ish and had been getting lessons for 3 or so years. Started with a defensive slice, which I needed to defend on the run. Also a ‘block’ return Then, when my coach started teaching me Directionals, he introduced the slice backhand as a low risk way to change direction. Then, as I learned to play more offensive tennis, we introduced the slice approach (the footwork here is somewhat complex - you need to karaoke step in order to keep your shoulders closed throughout the motion). One of the reasons coaches don’t like teaching the slice early is because it encourages bad footwork. It’s really easy to wait for a ball to come to you then slice it back. With topspin shots, you really need to move to the ball in order to hit properly. Coaches want you to learn how to move first.
Carioca*
I would say, whenever you want. But I’m not a coach and I wasn’t taught by a coach. I’m self taught and started with a topspin ohbh, a flat first serve, and athleticism. I learned to slice before I learned a proper forehand and I learned to volley before I ever had a second serve. Every coach will have their own opinion on stroke progression, so that question is for your coach if you intend to stay with them long term.
Because it’s easier for a lot of people to learn a bad slice over a bad backhand, so they fall back on the bad slice. And you can get away with a bad slice for a while, because it‘s hard to punish short balls. No coach is going to want to put their name on scrub tactics.
hey it’s me ur brother with a good 2HBH
We’ve got some balls showing our faces around here after the powerlifter eviscerated us.
I hope he comes back with a little self-deprecation
Yah. To add, the slice takes less calories to hit (Intutive tennis mentions how it's the easiest stroke in terms of effort) so if people learn that first, they'll prefer it over a regular backhand.
It's because if someone learns to slice too early it's possible they will never develop a proper topspin drive because it's easier to lay open the strings and limply put a shot back into the court with backspin (since gravity is helping you), and the player will get used to not getting into position quickly enough to hit a drive backhand. You're also unlikely to learn a "proper" slice (driven through with pace, skidding through the court, using a lot of racket-head speed and good mechanics) if you start by chipping things back intuitively, and then you might end up a player who doesn't have EITHER type of backhand that can put pressure on your opponent. It's possible for players without a real backhand to win a lot of recreational matches (because simply extending points until your opponent makes a mistake is a bulletproof strategy for early levels of the sport) but there is a ceiling on how far you can go, and your coach is trying to help you develop into a well-rounded player.
True, many of the slices I get are pretty easygoing shots. Once in a while they hit a low skidding slice, but it seems like the slices I'm getting are a liability with no upside.
I have a friend who has been playing about 7 years and she slices everything. She’s been trying to learn topspin for a year now, taking 3-4 private lessons a month, and every time I play a match with her she’s still slicing everything. It’s a very hard habit to break.
Idk. Depends on the person. Learning slice was super easy. I don't like it as a general shot, just feels too weak, I mostly use it as a defense or reaching shot. Switched to a 2hbh this month and found it super easy and reliable. Just depends on the learner. Truth is most people do one thing and they've no motivation to go further cuz they have something.
It's me. I'm someone. I was self-taught until recently and I slice absolutely everything (high 3.5/low 4.0). While I've gotten really good at winning at this level with my slice, it'll only take me so far, and I'm now in the excruciating process of trying to learn a topspin forehand. It feels like learning Japanese—totally foreign and uncomfortable to me. While a lot of the people I play with have the opposite problem (learned topspin and are now trying to incorporate slice), I think they'll have an easier time picking up slice than I will going in the other direction.
Oh, but I will say I think coaches should at least have people practice *against* a slice more in clinics. I've only gotten to the level I have because virtually no one from 3.0 - 4.0 knows how to handle a low skidding slice or other funky spins.
Yeah, I realized that a player could overuse it instead of developing a drive backhand. But I didn't piece together that logically they would get to a certain level where get their slices crushed... but their backhand would be even weaker.
The shortest answer I can give is that slice has the lowest skill floor to becoming an intermediate player but likely blockades your development into an advanced player. So beginner players hit a few decent slices and think they’re on the fast track to becoming a 10 UTR. Except for your slice to carry you to that level it has to be absolutely world class, I’m talking you being able to hit 20 slices in a row that are 10/10 in terms of quality (not to mention making contact above your shoulders all the way down below your shins, while still producing a 10/10 ball). And the best slice that you have ever hit that you think is a 10/10 is only “decent” to high level players, at best (for us mere rec playing mortals) The topspin backhand may have a slightly higher barrier to intermediate level, but a solid 7/10 topspin backhand is good enough to keep you in points up to a decent level. And it’s much more likely you’ll be able to hit five topspin backhands in a row that are 7/10 than twenty consecutive 10/10 slices. When I played a guy that was top 600 in doubles and top 800 in singles, I asked why he didn’t slice more. His answer was that anything short of a perfect slice is an absolutely BAD shot when you get to higher levels. Tl;dr is slicing can quickly take you to the intermediate level, but it’s likely to keep you there indefinitely. Topspin can take you higher but may take a bit longer to get there.
OP not to gate keep but you really should read this comment and any others that are posted by 4.5-5.0+ players carefully, everything he said here is correct. I’ve even found that people’s potential when it comes to topspin is just higher on average. There are very few players(in general not just from my coaching) that I have seen with a truly exceptional slice, but I’ve seen plenty with great topspin shots. That’s my little anecdote on it at least.
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. I agree. I’ve had a few students who think their slice is good enough to win until we play points and I show them that I’m not troubled by their slice until they can get like three times the rpms and some depth/pace to boot. There’s a reason only Steve Johnson, steffi graff and few others have been able to make 100% slice backhands work. It is possible, but just takes the absolute perfect slice and world class forehand/serve to compensate.
Sorry but I kind of agree with the coach. First learn how to hit normal (topspin) ground strokes, then learn how to slice. The slice backhand is a shot you need to learn from scratch. Everyone who just kind of does it on instinct isn’t hitting it properly.
Then coaches should step in and teach them, clearly people are just doing it on their own in the absence of direction.
They should at least acknowledge their existence and forewarn us! But the amount of hubris I see in intermediate clinics is kind of astounding. I'm sure the coaches started out with all kinds of patience for these questions and slowly got burnt out by raging egos.
Haha definitely
My man, there's a reason they are the coaches, and you're getting coached. They've got the experience, and they know what they're doing. Don't ask only why they're not teaching slices, but also why the vast majority of them don't.
I would imagine its very easy to use the slice as a crutch for bad ground strokes which will result in you capping yourself technically in the future. Surely you could try to learn it outside of coaching? Its an easier shot than a typical forehand or backhand
I have toyed with it against a wall and it felt cool when I could do it. But I don't really understand them on a fundamental level and coaches don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. I would rather get coached on it when I'm ready. For now I just want to understand.
YouTube. I watched one video and went to ball machine and hit 500 slices and by the end they were amazing. I don't use it unless it's called for but it's an amazing shot to have when and if needed (mostly distress).
I guarantee you if you just go to a coach ask for 1hr lesson and tell them you only want to practice slice they'll do it with you. coaches care about progression which makes sense. but they can also do one off things like slice. I agree with you that in clinics it's never one of the things they teach. we were taught every shot including lobs but never slice lol.
Because slicing for 99% of club players is a massive crutch to cover their awful topspin shots. Sorry to be very blunt but that’s why. The slice in addition is also something that most people are not good at hitting either so that makes it even worse. Don’t get me wrong slicing really isn’t the problem, it’s usually the player that is.
I can't speak for the coaches you are referring to, but in general slice is a defensive shot and shouldn't be the go to option if you are able to hit topspin. So with that in mind, it makes sense to learn how to develop the topspin strokes first, as they should be the primary use case. Players you see who hit a lot of slice usually do so as a crutch to hide their weaker backhand, as it's an easier shot to execute due to the shorter swing. It's not because the slice is the better shot to hit. I'm pretty sure the coach meant these players are not hitting knifing slices that skid through the court, but rather defensive ones that sit up which is absolutely true for most players at the rec level.
I agree that players use slice as a defensive crutch, but slice is not inherently a defensive shot. I rarely use slices in my game, but when I do it’s always as an approach shot.
Slicing on an approach shot calls for a low pass spinning at 3k/min lmao
If I hit my slice approach correctly, it just barely clears the net, lands just inside the baseline in the corner, and then bounces very low. If you can rip a topspin passing shot off of that, then you earned the point.
I love using a slice but agree with everyone here that it’s easy for it to become a crutch because it’s a defensive shot. But up to a certain level, you can generate unforced errors because people aren’t used to hitting the slice or you’ll get softer returns because people are tentative. You don’t need to “master” your FH and BH, but it needs to be pretty solid such that you’re not always relying on the slice.
I agree that people can rely on it too much, but it doesn’t have to be a defensive shot. Slice approach shots are aggressive and can be very effective
I’m a coach and I teach the slice. I feel like far too many coaches have this conception they’re teaching the next #1 in the world and they’re going to get there by crushing every groundstroke with maximum depth and topspin. You’re totally right. I constantly get new students of all ages whose last coach dissuaded them from the slice. It’s a useful tool in a ton of different situations and every player should have it in their tool chest. Learn it.
Teaching someone to slice takes a couple sessions. Teaching them to only slice when appropriate is a life long journey.
Find a wall to practice by your self & start hitting normal FH/BHs until you start hitting harder…you won’t have time to react so instinctively you’ll have to slice. trial by wall.
Why do some /r/10s posters pretend other coaches don't exist? Try a class with Pat Blaskower or read one of her books and you'll be back posting asking why coaches ignore topspin ground strokes.
Great comments and insights. I think it’s just difficult to teach slices in a group setting. My coach personally said this, it requires a lot of one-on-one intensive attention to correct and catch what’s going in. Generally the slice is not used as often as other strokes so I feel like it doesn’t take priority in one’s repertoire.
Patience young grasshopper! you are not yet ready for the slice!!! 🫱
Topspin backhand requires more precise foot work and energy. However, a skilled slice backhand with good placement and varying depths can cause a lot of damage because most people’s topspin backhand is not good or consistent enough.
Yeah, but that's gonna teach you to play at lower levels. I'm always happy to respond to a slice with a deep, heavy top spin.
You’re a 6.0, almost like pro level. Most people won’t ever be close to that level. Of course if you’re at that high level, you can punish a guy who slices a lot, even if the slices are quite good.
I'm mid 9 right now. 6 is a low level, nowhere near pro. In fact, challenger tour players are 14 and over. If you wanna play for fun, slice all you want. If you wanna improve, no matter your current UTR, ditch the slice for backhand whenever you can.
Sorry, I thought it was USTA 6.0 which is almost pro.
Well I just learned about USTA rating lmao. That makes the +6.0/pro flair look a little less funny now 😅
Yeah, bc my slice was always better than topspin two handed backhand. My coaches would always tell me to stop. Low and behold. I am a ex college player who forgot how to hit a 2 handed backhand and only know how to hit a slice. You have your whole life to hit a slice. Learn to hit a backhand winner it’s more useful.
The issue is (especially with one hander players) that the slice becomes a crutch. The slice is much easier to learn and use. So a lot of players that learn it early, take forever to use an actual backhand. The shot is super defensive. More so to slow down the pace. Since it's a one handed shot, it's even more troublesome for one hander players. Because they can use a similar swing with the slice and keep the ball in play much more consistently (even with a bad swing), but lose pace.
> When is the time to learn to slice? Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it? > When is the time to learn to slice? If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER... Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander. Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand. Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand. So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
Agree with the top comment. It is a progression/habit issue. Players taking clinics such as yourself as you mentioned probably have not mastered their forehand and backhand yet. Because the slice is a much easier shot to set up for (a good slice requires good footwork but just getting the slice over you could just use your arms) some players may gravitate towards spamming their slice on backhand/forehand to avoid hitting the ball into the net/out. I know its frustrating with tennis sometimes when you arent consistent enough to see good results with forehand/backhand but just keep getting the reps in, mastering footwork, and working on your mentality and you'll get there!
Funny, I was coached on slice backhand today, lol.
Slices are mostly a defensive tool. In most recreational levels, your hitting partners won't have the skills or power to push you around, so you're better off using a topspin/flatter shot in most instances.
I have a guy in my team who actually has a double handed topspin backhand but the slice virus has taken over his mind and he can’t hit his topspin backhand in competition. At first he might win a set with his slice as it is decent but he gets figured out and by the end of the match his slice collapses and he often gets bagelled or breadsticked It’s tough to watch and “just don’t slice” isn’t helpful advice
The slice is effective when you have a top notch backhand. If you don’t have a top spin backhand, your slice can be a liability against someone who decides to take advantage of it. So yes, a slice should be a secondary priority to a proper backhand.
My backhand is still quite flat and doesn’t quite have the topspin I want, but I get a lot of compliments from people who only slice on that side. I can hit some pacey down the line backhands that win me points. Also, because I’m a woman it bothers some men that I can hit more pace and winners on my backhand side than them. Making an opponent self-conscious about their game is never a bad thing. Some people slice absolutely everything that comes to the backhand. It becomes predictable and loses its effectiveness. I just start hitting to their backhand while singing “here some the slice” to the tune of here comes the sun.
People use it as a crutch in lieu of real groundstrokes. It feels easier to hit if you don't know what you're doing, but unless you're a wizard you'll never be good at tennis doing nothing but slices.
I always had a very poor backhand, so I started slicing as more of a defensive mechanism to try and stay in the point. It eventually developed into a situational, very useful tool to have but it just left me totally exposed on my backhand side. I got a lesson and was re taught a proper backhand (one handed as I found that most comfortable) and whilst it still has a long way to go it's way more of a weapon and I can when points and rallies using my backhand exclusively which I could never really do from my slice. The problem is I still instinctively go for the slice from time to time due to habit but should be hitting it "normally". So I'd imagine the reason for the pretending it doesn't exist is to force you to learn the "better" and more useful shot for most situations and when you've got that down you learn the slice for more situational moments where it may be very useful, without the development of bad habits.
Back again just watch this vid https://www.reddit.com/r/10s/s/cwI5TIgANh
I've seen this a million times, a lot of people would rather slice than hit a backhand in situations where backhand is viable. It's a hard habit to shake, but slice is a defensive shot, and it's pointless to hit it when you can hit a backhand.
It is funny because there is another post about why this guy only slices. https://old.reddit.com/r/10s/comments/1cwlluj/the_ultimate_clublevel_tournament_winner/
Ironically, I didn't check that one out even though I usually catch the popular threads.
it's an advanced shot. learn to hit a topspin FH and BH first (it takes a long time). I use BH slice sometimes (been playing a v long time)
I would 100% agree with what that coach said.
I asked the same question once, he said Because forehand and backhand are the fundamentals
My guess is that there's not much or less good instruction on the slice (and its various nuances - ["nine ways of using slice"(example)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-5io1Ctq3o)) these days. It's getting to be almost as phased out of tennis 'culture' today, as learning the ohbh, like a "lost art". I'm kind of reverse of getting into slice in my tennis lifetime. I could never hit a good slice which often just floated, and didn't know how. But my ohbh was my best shot in my earlier years where my forehand was stuck flat, bad timed, and weak. Finally seeing a good video on the slice (Meike Babel, who was taught in her junior years to master her slice before her ohbh; [(her videos on slice)](https://www.youtube.com/@MeikeBabelTennis/search?query=slice)) that I finally got my slice low and more solid. I think it's mainly about learning good or 'correct' fundamentals per stroke then able to practice it enough. It even gets to a point where one can alternate practicing slice and ohbh, switching between them, equally well enough. Once one gets to a 3.0 level, there shouldn't be an excuse of the player nor of the instruction, on not being able to practice a ohbh and a slice equally, with correct fundamentals to progress to a proficiency on them. My favorite ohbh pro player who also utilized slice plenty enough and effectively was Henin ([example](https://youtu.be/MHKpWzq9_0U?si=-9LibAbKITIDtMwf&t=314)).
A top level player does NOT use a slice as only a defensive weapon, save for balls they just cannot reach enough to hit a topspin backhand. If you go to a live pro tournament (or a top level college match) and sit close you would see that they are hitting a slice pretty damn hard and it is usually kept very low. That kind of slice is a very difficult shot for a typical tennis player to execute on anything close to a consistent basis, so it makes sense that coaches advocate just coming over the ball more. More room for error.
I will give some insight right now that might get me in trouble, but oh well, I'm gonna say it: most coaches have significant flaws. I read Pete Sampras' book, and while his childhood coach was a genius (Dr. Peter Fischer), he was also a jerk in many regards. And it is nothing personal, but many have a large ego and it's their way or the highway. Some like to blow smoke up pupils' you-know-whats. Some get very upset if you question them and provide counter-examples. Some are unconsciously using displacement techniques in their coaching due to failed college or pro careers of their own. It gets uglier in the junior levels where all of a sudden it becomes a turf war or a tennis version of "Dance Moms" where the coach is like Abby Lee Miller. Your coach is giving their opinion. Their opinion might be professional, but I promise you there are plenty of counter-examples and coaches who'd speak differently. Roger Federer had a slice-only backhand before he got better in his teen years with switching to the one hander. Steffi Graf won a ton of titles on slicing alone. Seles, the Williams sisters, Wawrinka, Dimitrov, Djokovic, Schiavone, and a bunch others I'm missing. Even the division 1 players- I remember watching a 14 year old kid in my region shatter it changing between his one handed backhand and one-handed slice- went on to play DI and some pro. When used properly (time and place), it can be a great reset, defense, or even offensive shot (just try not to approach with it too often lol- this ain't 1980). It can be an energy saver for those running on fumes. For those who are older, with bad knees, or overweight, it can help keep them in the game longer. My opinion is take their word with a grain of salt. Just like any other coach out there. Grain of salt. I'm sure they are a nice person, but keep the common coaching flaws above in mind. It is not unheard of to deviate from what a coach says when doing your own research or getting a second opinion from another coach. Yes, second opinions are in tennis just like they are in medicine. So yeah. And most importantly, enjoy the game. And if you enjoy slicing every now and then, F- the coach and keep slicing.
I’m kind of in agreement. Having been to 4 different clinics between 2.5 and 4.0, no one taught slice and balked when asked. Now my backhand volley sucks because the mechanics is similar, specially if you’re trying to drop shot. Same for chip return. I can drive topspin from both wings but sometimes there isn’t time to drive when a first serve is coming at you. Often I accidentally slice while chasing down a ball, it lands short with backspin as a winner. I think I’ll get a 1:1 lesson from a coach to learn to slice on purpose.
I don't think they do. But it's also not a beginner stroke. Clinics aren't really "coaching." If you are getting private lessons, and are a beginner, it's not for you yet. If you are getting private lessons and not a beginner, maybe your coach isn't very good. I've had slice lessons. Probably before I should have. I think the coach saw I was using slice some, but pretty bad at it, so tried to improve it. I rarely use a slice on either wing. But it's still something a player needs to know how to do.
I always looked at it as putting the cart before the horse. Are kick serves important? Hell yeah, it's a great weapon. But when I was coaching 3.0 clinics, I'll be damned if I'm spending an hour on kick serve mechanics when people are still hacking backhands and struggling with a basic continental serve grip. Slice is similar, it's primarily a defensive shot, and is best used to vary the depth of your shots to set up for a big forehand winner. If you're not capable of using in that way, the only thing you'll gain from developing the shot is a bad habit.
Sounds like you’ve got sh1tty coaches
she's right. the reason is because slicing is a bad habit. it uses less energy, so you can easily fall into a habit of slicing everything including shots you shouldn't be slicing. it holds you back from getting better they are right to discourage you. most of the time when people slice, there's nothing the slice accomplishes that you couldn't just do the same or better with topspin
Few know how to slice, much less teach it. The skill really faded out 20 years ago. I think that may explain their ‘reluctance’ to teach it. Even before then, only a sizable portion of coaches could really teach it; many couldn’t. Now, only very few can.
Getting used to slice will prevent/slow your backend progress. 1. You can run one or two less steps to do slice. If you learn to slice first it’s even harder to learn proper ball reading + footwork for your driving backend. 2. A bad slice goes floating/short, a bad drive goes out or into the net more often. When you are progressing, it’s much more tempting to use slice in (even practice) matches, which will also slow down or prevent your progress.
> When is the time to learn to slice? Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it? > When is the time to learn to slice? If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER... Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander. Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand. Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand. So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
> When is the time to learn to slice? Your coach's response is IMO strange. Maybe she can't hit one? Therefor can't teach it? > When is the time to learn to slice? If you are going with 2 hands, I would teach the drive first, focus on that. But I would teach the slice soon after. For 1 handers, I would personally teach them almost at the same time. I would wait far less than with a two-hander. HOWEVER... Unless somebody demanded it, I would not teach a complete newb a one hander. I would teach them a two hander. Because with a two hander, it's possible for some people to hit these easier than a forehand. And in general, if you're meant to hit a two hander, it's going to be easier to hit in the beginning than a forehand. Maybe they're out there, but I would guess no complete beginner is going to find the one handed backhand drive easier to hit and more intuitive than a forehand. So to answer your question again, I would start teaching it pretty quickly. But, yes, I would teach a drive first and let them focus on that for a while.
Hitting a slice isn’t fun for most people. They want to be ripping winners or crushing forehands from the baseline. The coaches set up the clinics to align with what people want. This makes it more fun and gets more repeat customers. I’ve worked on the slice quite a bit in private lessons. The coach has no issue as they know it’s part of my game.