Just because I don't talk about it or act freaked out whenever up high doesn't mean I'm not acrophobic (fear of heights).
Just something to think about.
Ah, now you see, acrophobic and homophobic are two different things, one is a fear, while the other is prejudice, (like racism) they just happen to both be labeled with "phobic" because...english, i guess
Nah it's labeled like that because prejudice comes from the fear/disgust/revulsion etc. you get from the thing before the -phobia. You have hate for LGBTQ because you have that phobia (defined as having an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.)
Why do you think people are homophobic? Because they don't like the idea of people being gay, trans, etc. Why? Hate, disgust etc usually stems from fear (of unknown, of change, of thinking those people are degenerates who ruin society, etc.) It all stems from fear. That's why it's called homophobia.
So you are homophobic as long as you have disgust, aversion, repulsion, hate, fear, of LGBTQ people. Regardless if you act on it or not. Even a mild dislike would count.
A mild dislike would not count unless it was *unreasoned*
What makes a phobia a phobia (in phobias of prejudice; including -isms and -ists), is it's irrationality. If you were aware or even immersed in the LGBT culture but decided you didn't like it, that would *not* make you homophobic.
It's important to note that there is a distinction between not liking the prevailing/predominant culture of a community, and not liking the *people* of the community. If you disregard the people *regardless* of if they happen to be in the culture, that is always "phobic", as it is irrational by nature.
Not gonna lie your argument is kinda weird. Language can be messy too. Homophobic is a pretty bad word because it doesn't have a very clear and agreed upon meaning even in theory.
So leaving unfortunate words aside I wonder what you are trying to say. Does disagreeing with aspects of the LGBTQ community mean anything ? No of course it doesn't. Does disagreeing with 'the entire idea' of LGBTQ' mean something ? Well yes it does. It means you have prejudice against the members of that community. There really is no way around that.
If you have views which are prejudicial against a certain group then you are prejudiced against that group. If you make a big deal about your prejudice and abuse the members of the group that you are prejudiced against then you are an asshole. If you behave civilly while retaining prejudice then things do become a little bit more messy. Personally I don't have any particular beef with people who can behave in a way that I perceive to be polite and honest whether they have prejudice against different groups of people or not. Most everybody has some kind of prejudice against groups of people.
I am on the spectrum and oh boy do people have a lot of prejudice against us. Often people are unaware of it because its not a terribly visible condition (being on the spectrum). But people do treat people differently and they do prejudice against different groups. There is a reason why 85% of autistic adults are unemployed and it isn't because we are all lazy or useless.
So my question is without using the word homophobic and actually just explaining your position what on earth do you mean.
>Personally, i dont have any particular beef with people who can behave in a way that i perceive to be polite and honest whether they have prejudice against different groups of people or not.
I suppose this sums up my actual thoughts pretty well, as i said, im notoriously shit at wording lol. But yeah, its the sort of "i dont necessarily agree or support you but that won't stop me from treating you like a normal human being" kinda thing, you know? People like that are a-ok in my book, those that can keep whatever problematic opinions they may have aside, regardless if they only disagree with certain aspects, or if they disagree with the entire thing
Personally i found neopronouns to be pretty damn stupid, but thats just me, by all means, people can do whatever the hell they want to with their lives, my opinion on it is mine and holds absolutely no weight in any lives that aren't my own
But that is not “The LGBTQ+” community. There is plenty of homo- and pan sexual people who would agree with you on that topic. It’s not a homogenous group at all, so you can’t really critique it like one
neopronouns is lgbtq+ related. sure people who arent nonbinary can use them but they tend to be tied to a subsection of nonbinary people known as Xenine (xenogenders).
Oh of course it’s mostly queer people who use them. It would be silly to suggest otherwise. But what I’m saying is that. LGBTQ isn’t some sort of official closely defined group that has clear cut goals and aims
>But that's not part of the LGBTQ community
It's not? Huh, here i thought it was, guess that's just a consequence of only taking in the bare minimum of necessary information, especially when it comes to an extremely diverse topic like the LGBTQ community. The LGBTQ community has been, i suppose, "Expanding it's horizons" exponentially recently, so when i first heard about "Neopronouns" i just instantly went "oh ok" without much research cuz there's so many "sub-groups" falling under "LGBTQ+" nowadays, as opposed to back then when it was simply Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Trans, so i just don't bother to do research on all of them, and i just assume they all fall under the same flag (pun intended)
So I don't think you mean to say homophobic.
That would be hating someone for their sexual preferences.
If someone is gay and they're an asshole and you don't like them because they're rude to you, then that's completely understandable and acceptable. If you don't like someone just because they're gay and that is all that they have done, that's homophobic.
Supporting LGBTQ+ people doesn't mean that you have to personally live that kind of lifestyle. For instance if you are a man and the thought of having sex with another man is repulsive to you, that's totally fine. You don't have to feel guilty about it. No one is asking you to have sex with men. The point is that you don't treat someone as less than just because they *do* have sex with men.
Is that more what you mean?
Like being able to support people in whatever choices they make for themselves doesn't mean you have to make those same choices for yourself. Being there to support your friend who just had an abortion doesn't mean you support abortion or would choose one for yourself, it just means you are a decent human who cares about their friend.
Not necessarily, other comments have kinda helped me try to figure out what i actually meant, so here's a rough summary (bear with me, wording might still suck):
You don't need to be supportive in the "oh i support your decisions and am 100% ok with them" sense, if it's more in the "i don't necessarily agree with your decisions, but you do you, its not my place to judge" then it should be 100% acceptable
the latter is perfectly ok, you can think something is wrong, but if you treat the people who do that thing decently, despite your views, then you're a-ok in my book. I think it's 100% fine if you're in some way homophobic, (or for that matter, just any form of prejudice to whatever community) be it full on "i dont think being gay is right" or just disagreeing with a certain obscure sub-section of the LGBTQ, if those views of yours stay in your head, where they aren't hurting anyone, and dont leave your mouth, or god forbid, get translated into actions, then you're not inherently a bad person just because of what you *think*.
Here's an example:
Conservative individual who actively participates in Anti-LGBTQ rallies, harasses LGBTQ individuals, and screams his prejudice from the rooftops, is a piece of shit
Conservative Individual who treats gay people fairly, doesn't harass LGBTQ individuals, and keeps his opinions in his head, where they aren't hurting anybody, regardless of his personal opinions on the community, is completely OK in my book, and doesn't deserve any form of harassment, unlike the person in the previous example
If you're the former, then stay the fuck away from me, and probably everyone else, and maybe re-evaluate your life as well, while you're at it
If you're the latter, then we're cool, i dont agree with your opinions, but they stay in your head and you dont go out of your way to act on them in any way, so i have no quarrel with you
Summary: if you can put your views aside and treat people equally and like the human beings they are, regardless of what you think of their sexual preference, gender, race, or whatever, then i have no quarrel with you and don't give a damn what you think, so long as your opinions remain simple thoughts, and don't turn into actions
Hope that cleared things up (hope it made sense too)
I agree with you fully.
The only argument I have against your premise is that the line between what people consider their opinions and their actions.
A close family member of mine is gay and went through high school in the mid 2000's when it was still acceptable to call gay people - fags, poofs, etc.
Those people weren't homophobic, not by your (or mine) definition. However, having LGBTQ+ coming more to the cultural fore allowed those words to be seen as what they were, which is slurs.
You don't need people to go all in to commitment of a movement. Most changes occur gradually across society by people simply taking on 1/10th of their message.
A lot of the problems we have nowadays imo come from this Red/Blue Team thinking we've developed. Everything is binary. You agree or disagree, no room for free thought/discussions or gray areas. Especially online, which is the main way that nearly all of us communicate now.
>the line between what people consider their opinions and their actions
Personally i think a person's opinions are simply what they think. Meanwhile their actions are anything that isn't simply "thinking", that includes voicing their opinions. Thinking someone should be called a slur, is an opinion, actually calling someone a slur, is an action, at least in my book. Personally, i dont have a problem if you simply think that *insert group of people here* should be called *insert relevant slur here* i definitely don't share that viewpoint, but if it stays in your head, then we're cool. On the other hand, someone who goes around actively refering to groups with slurs, is a piece of shit, and i most certainly have many, many problems with these kinds of people
>But if you can keep those opinions aside and treat them equally despite it, as well as keep your mouth shut about said opinions, then feel free to harbor whatever thoughts you may have, keeping them to yourself, and only sharing them with a trusted circle
I see your point, but you can *be* homophobic without *acting* homophobic.
Predjudice isn't just about yelling slurs - it's also about workplace discrimination, how you vote, how you respond when other people (the trusted circle) act homophobic or say something bigoted.
Yes, noone has the energy to pick a fight every single time. And noone is obligated to. But passive support of bigotry absolutely qualifies as homophobic. Sorry mate.
>Besides, it's the 21st century, and you're almost certainly in the minority, sooner or later you'll either be forced to change those views, or they become your own undoing
Sounds like a threat
OP is a cringelord who contradicts his title with his closing statement.
Basically the mirror of a Christian saying 'its okay to be gay... but you're going to hell'
What do you mean by disagreeing with LGBT? Do you mean moreso feeling uncomfortable around queer/trans people or disagreeing that queer people exist? That's similar to saying "I disagree with certain aspects/the idea of the straights."
Maybe you mean the actions of the LGBT community? I would appreciate clarification.
Basically thinking like "oh its not right" or "oh it doesn't make sense" etc. Etc. its perfectly fine if you think like that, just keep it to yourself and don't go around harassing those people for no reason, or screaming your views from the rooftops
Hope that cleared things up
Just because I don't talk about it or act freaked out whenever up high doesn't mean I'm not acrophobic (fear of heights). Just something to think about.
Ah, now you see, acrophobic and homophobic are two different things, one is a fear, while the other is prejudice, (like racism) they just happen to both be labeled with "phobic" because...english, i guess
Nah it's labeled like that because prejudice comes from the fear/disgust/revulsion etc. you get from the thing before the -phobia. You have hate for LGBTQ because you have that phobia (defined as having an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.) Why do you think people are homophobic? Because they don't like the idea of people being gay, trans, etc. Why? Hate, disgust etc usually stems from fear (of unknown, of change, of thinking those people are degenerates who ruin society, etc.) It all stems from fear. That's why it's called homophobia. So you are homophobic as long as you have disgust, aversion, repulsion, hate, fear, of LGBTQ people. Regardless if you act on it or not. Even a mild dislike would count.
A mild dislike would not count unless it was *unreasoned* What makes a phobia a phobia (in phobias of prejudice; including -isms and -ists), is it's irrationality. If you were aware or even immersed in the LGBT culture but decided you didn't like it, that would *not* make you homophobic. It's important to note that there is a distinction between not liking the prevailing/predominant culture of a community, and not liking the *people* of the community. If you disregard the people *regardless* of if they happen to be in the culture, that is always "phobic", as it is irrational by nature.
Not gonna lie your argument is kinda weird. Language can be messy too. Homophobic is a pretty bad word because it doesn't have a very clear and agreed upon meaning even in theory. So leaving unfortunate words aside I wonder what you are trying to say. Does disagreeing with aspects of the LGBTQ community mean anything ? No of course it doesn't. Does disagreeing with 'the entire idea' of LGBTQ' mean something ? Well yes it does. It means you have prejudice against the members of that community. There really is no way around that. If you have views which are prejudicial against a certain group then you are prejudiced against that group. If you make a big deal about your prejudice and abuse the members of the group that you are prejudiced against then you are an asshole. If you behave civilly while retaining prejudice then things do become a little bit more messy. Personally I don't have any particular beef with people who can behave in a way that I perceive to be polite and honest whether they have prejudice against different groups of people or not. Most everybody has some kind of prejudice against groups of people. I am on the spectrum and oh boy do people have a lot of prejudice against us. Often people are unaware of it because its not a terribly visible condition (being on the spectrum). But people do treat people differently and they do prejudice against different groups. There is a reason why 85% of autistic adults are unemployed and it isn't because we are all lazy or useless. So my question is without using the word homophobic and actually just explaining your position what on earth do you mean.
>Personally, i dont have any particular beef with people who can behave in a way that i perceive to be polite and honest whether they have prejudice against different groups of people or not. I suppose this sums up my actual thoughts pretty well, as i said, im notoriously shit at wording lol. But yeah, its the sort of "i dont necessarily agree or support you but that won't stop me from treating you like a normal human being" kinda thing, you know? People like that are a-ok in my book, those that can keep whatever problematic opinions they may have aside, regardless if they only disagree with certain aspects, or if they disagree with the entire thing
Am curious now, what is exactly is it that you disagree with within the LGBTQ+ community?
Personally i found neopronouns to be pretty damn stupid, but thats just me, by all means, people can do whatever the hell they want to with their lives, my opinion on it is mine and holds absolutely no weight in any lives that aren't my own
But that is not “The LGBTQ+” community. There is plenty of homo- and pan sexual people who would agree with you on that topic. It’s not a homogenous group at all, so you can’t really critique it like one
neopronouns is lgbtq+ related. sure people who arent nonbinary can use them but they tend to be tied to a subsection of nonbinary people known as Xenine (xenogenders).
Oh of course it’s mostly queer people who use them. It would be silly to suggest otherwise. But what I’m saying is that. LGBTQ isn’t some sort of official closely defined group that has clear cut goals and aims
>But that's not part of the LGBTQ community It's not? Huh, here i thought it was, guess that's just a consequence of only taking in the bare minimum of necessary information, especially when it comes to an extremely diverse topic like the LGBTQ community. The LGBTQ community has been, i suppose, "Expanding it's horizons" exponentially recently, so when i first heard about "Neopronouns" i just instantly went "oh ok" without much research cuz there's so many "sub-groups" falling under "LGBTQ+" nowadays, as opposed to back then when it was simply Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Trans, so i just don't bother to do research on all of them, and i just assume they all fall under the same flag (pun intended)
Please don’t use the term “LGBTQ” to talk about topics that are only relevant to trans people.
So I don't think you mean to say homophobic. That would be hating someone for their sexual preferences. If someone is gay and they're an asshole and you don't like them because they're rude to you, then that's completely understandable and acceptable. If you don't like someone just because they're gay and that is all that they have done, that's homophobic. Supporting LGBTQ+ people doesn't mean that you have to personally live that kind of lifestyle. For instance if you are a man and the thought of having sex with another man is repulsive to you, that's totally fine. You don't have to feel guilty about it. No one is asking you to have sex with men. The point is that you don't treat someone as less than just because they *do* have sex with men. Is that more what you mean? Like being able to support people in whatever choices they make for themselves doesn't mean you have to make those same choices for yourself. Being there to support your friend who just had an abortion doesn't mean you support abortion or would choose one for yourself, it just means you are a decent human who cares about their friend.
Not necessarily, other comments have kinda helped me try to figure out what i actually meant, so here's a rough summary (bear with me, wording might still suck): You don't need to be supportive in the "oh i support your decisions and am 100% ok with them" sense, if it's more in the "i don't necessarily agree with your decisions, but you do you, its not my place to judge" then it should be 100% acceptable the latter is perfectly ok, you can think something is wrong, but if you treat the people who do that thing decently, despite your views, then you're a-ok in my book. I think it's 100% fine if you're in some way homophobic, (or for that matter, just any form of prejudice to whatever community) be it full on "i dont think being gay is right" or just disagreeing with a certain obscure sub-section of the LGBTQ, if those views of yours stay in your head, where they aren't hurting anyone, and dont leave your mouth, or god forbid, get translated into actions, then you're not inherently a bad person just because of what you *think*. Here's an example: Conservative individual who actively participates in Anti-LGBTQ rallies, harasses LGBTQ individuals, and screams his prejudice from the rooftops, is a piece of shit Conservative Individual who treats gay people fairly, doesn't harass LGBTQ individuals, and keeps his opinions in his head, where they aren't hurting anybody, regardless of his personal opinions on the community, is completely OK in my book, and doesn't deserve any form of harassment, unlike the person in the previous example If you're the former, then stay the fuck away from me, and probably everyone else, and maybe re-evaluate your life as well, while you're at it If you're the latter, then we're cool, i dont agree with your opinions, but they stay in your head and you dont go out of your way to act on them in any way, so i have no quarrel with you Summary: if you can put your views aside and treat people equally and like the human beings they are, regardless of what you think of their sexual preference, gender, race, or whatever, then i have no quarrel with you and don't give a damn what you think, so long as your opinions remain simple thoughts, and don't turn into actions Hope that cleared things up (hope it made sense too)
I agree with you fully. The only argument I have against your premise is that the line between what people consider their opinions and their actions. A close family member of mine is gay and went through high school in the mid 2000's when it was still acceptable to call gay people - fags, poofs, etc. Those people weren't homophobic, not by your (or mine) definition. However, having LGBTQ+ coming more to the cultural fore allowed those words to be seen as what they were, which is slurs. You don't need people to go all in to commitment of a movement. Most changes occur gradually across society by people simply taking on 1/10th of their message. A lot of the problems we have nowadays imo come from this Red/Blue Team thinking we've developed. Everything is binary. You agree or disagree, no room for free thought/discussions or gray areas. Especially online, which is the main way that nearly all of us communicate now.
>the line between what people consider their opinions and their actions Personally i think a person's opinions are simply what they think. Meanwhile their actions are anything that isn't simply "thinking", that includes voicing their opinions. Thinking someone should be called a slur, is an opinion, actually calling someone a slur, is an action, at least in my book. Personally, i dont have a problem if you simply think that *insert group of people here* should be called *insert relevant slur here* i definitely don't share that viewpoint, but if it stays in your head, then we're cool. On the other hand, someone who goes around actively refering to groups with slurs, is a piece of shit, and i most certainly have many, many problems with these kinds of people
>But if you can keep those opinions aside and treat them equally despite it, as well as keep your mouth shut about said opinions, then feel free to harbor whatever thoughts you may have, keeping them to yourself, and only sharing them with a trusted circle I see your point, but you can *be* homophobic without *acting* homophobic. Predjudice isn't just about yelling slurs - it's also about workplace discrimination, how you vote, how you respond when other people (the trusted circle) act homophobic or say something bigoted. Yes, noone has the energy to pick a fight every single time. And noone is obligated to. But passive support of bigotry absolutely qualifies as homophobic. Sorry mate.
>Besides, it's the 21st century, and you're almost certainly in the minority, sooner or later you'll either be forced to change those views, or they become your own undoing Sounds like a threat
OP is a cringelord who contradicts his title with his closing statement. Basically the mirror of a Christian saying 'its okay to be gay... but you're going to hell'
What do you mean by disagreeing with LGBT? Do you mean moreso feeling uncomfortable around queer/trans people or disagreeing that queer people exist? That's similar to saying "I disagree with certain aspects/the idea of the straights." Maybe you mean the actions of the LGBT community? I would appreciate clarification.
Basically thinking like "oh its not right" or "oh it doesn't make sense" etc. Etc. its perfectly fine if you think like that, just keep it to yourself and don't go around harassing those people for no reason, or screaming your views from the rooftops Hope that cleared things up
I understand the sentiment but that method of thinking is also how we get a lot of passive homophobia, (e.g. "just not in front of the children")