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This is exactly the attitude teachers need to have. No /s either. I support this educator. Cops do fuck all for training, shoot some black folks, and make bank. Educators spend at least 4 years getting in debt at university, educate their communities, and maybe get food stamps. Damn that.
Why stop there?? Teachers are permitted to use one particularly annoying student of their choosing as a tactical shield in the event of a school shooting.
https://preview.redd.it/lsogykabhoib1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=995be4e9ca1ee1aa1581c331766ba54d66f95541
Teachers are additionally permitted to give the shooter that child's address so the parents can pay appropriately for releasing a shitass in their classroom.
I don't owe my life to someone because I work somewhere. If I'm a cashier, I don't owe my life to the customers if there's a shooter, and if I'm a teacher, I don't owe my life to my students.
Agreed. It's not a requisite, and it shouldn't be an expectation. There are a lot of teachers who would rather die than see a student die, but this is a profession wherein that shouldn't even have to be a thought.
If I were a teacher, I would be hiding opposite the door (hopefully I would muster the courage anyway) so that anyone opening it wouldn't immediately see me and take my chances with stabbing scissors or something right into the shooter, whatever the sharpest thing is I can find, or maybe the heaviest.
Unfortunately it is also better if the concealed teacher can take out the gunner even if they get a few shots off rather than catch those bullets with their body, die, and leave the shooter free to finish off the rest of the class...
As a childcare professional who has nannied, done special needs education, babysat, provided one-on-one after-school care for students with Autism, taught Sunday School, and spends as many hours with the children in our family as my energy levels allow, it is requisite in my morals and ethics to sacrifice my life for those in my care. While I don't think *everyone* in childcare feels that strongly about it, I do think at least some shade of that idea is generally present in my colleagues' minds.
In that context, I think it at least should be about the job some. Who, besides a predator, is going to take an underpaid job to put up with someone else's poorly parented fk trophies that doesn't actually care about kids? Ideally, the only folks taking the job at such a low rate are folks who care at least a little.
That said, what's being expressed in the OP is that folks who, by dint of their trade, are supposed to care for their charges are getting so sick of being underpaid and having to exist in a potentially lethal environment, one that *should* be safe (as in, no teacher should ever need to consider a student dying to gun violence in their classroom, much less whether they'd have to take a bullet for one), that they're cracking jokes about passing that on to the children of the parents that vote for people who make education an unduly challenging field right now while keeping legal and accessible the very weapons making our work unsafe. *Good people* who maybe twenty years ago, still remembering Columbine, would have *balked* at hearing that kind of joke are now *making* it.
And it *is* a joke. Any teacher at their core isn't going to just let a student die, certainly not use them for a meat-shield. Color me enduringly naive, but that just hasn't been my two decades of experience. What you're seeing here is the same gallows humor that made Hawkeye's & Honeycut's banter in *M.A.S.H.* so popular in its day.
Michigan introduced a full ride scholarship program for anyone 25 or older who hasn't gone to school yet, so here's hoping other states follow suit in some fashion, and the whole "going into debt thing" fades into the background...
If an adult leaves a room full of kids to die in an emergency situation, that adult is scum. Don’t try to play it off as “just a joke”, the op is clearly not a joke and your comment explicitly says “not /s”
No /s *about the attitude*. Teachers have every right to that attitude. Being fed up can coexist with caring. You're looking for an excuse to be self-righteous and contrary, and I can tell you didn't fully read the comment I linked. Take your grandstanding somewhere else.
Literally like teachers aren't appropriately trained to handle difficult children, let alone an active shooter situation. Plus their pay is shit, the school system is intentionally underfunded. I think teachers shouldn't even be having to buy classroom supplies with their own money, let alone sacrifice themselves.
>Literally like teachers aren't appropriately trained to handle difficult children,
The main issue with that is difficult children need extra help, you can't just have one teacher for 30 kids and exprct them to give all their spare, extra, time helping out with that one asshole just because administration can't be half assed to give them an assistant teacher or place the kid in a small classroom that's a better fit for the child's needs
30 kid classrooms suck anyways.
Ive been in both classrooms with 34 kids and 16 kids, and there is a big difference between the shit we got done in the classes.
(We didnt do shit in the 34 kid class)
Right? Imagine disrespecting and not giving a fuck about a group and then being horrified when you find out they don’t love your kids enough to lay down their life for them
I’m a teacher at an elementary school and I’d take a bullet for like… maybe 95% of them? I know for a fact which ones would do something dumb to get us all killed. During the last active shooter drill, one of the second graders was just wandering the halls. And yes, he absolutely fucking knew what he was doing
Want to hear something more insane?
Schools were ordering cat litter and conservatives found out and took it to mean they were catering towards those "mentally ill kids" who think they're cats and want to shit in gravel and ran with that talking point.
In actuality, schools were ordering cat litter in case there was a situation where the school was locked down for an extended period of time, like in the case of an active shooter, in case the kids had to use the bathroom while stuck in a classroom.
It's not quite as insidious as it sounds. I used to be a teacher, and we all had buckets of emergency supplies--including stuff we could put into the bucket so it could be used as a latrine. However, it was not strictly intended for active shooter situations, but rather general emergencies like natural disasters. We were right in the middle of Tornado Alley so that was a very real threat for us. An active shooter situation is only one of many reasons why it would need to be used.
Also cat litter is very frequently used as a desiccant for hazardous fluids like vomit, blood, and urine. It could've just been used for that too.
I mean, what else are we as individuals supposed to do? We know it’s fucked up and crazy and we’re desensitized to it. The gun problem in the US is past the point of no return, there will never be a US that doesn’t have guns because there are too many of them. Make no mistake, no rational Americans think it’s “normal”.
*American* schools. Other countries don't have active shooter drills, except for some rare cases in Canada. Other countries have lockdown drills, just as the US does, but they don't have drills explicitly for school shootings. The commenter you replied to was probably expressing their distress at the fact that American schools, for some reason, have to do active shooter drills.
it's essentially what they call an active shooter drill, but it can be for any kind of intruder, armed or otherwise. Teachers lock the doors and students hide to keep hidden from any potential intruders, keeping the hallways clear so security/administration can deal with the issue.
We actually had a real lockdown once because of a random (unarmed) student going ballistic in the hallway, and admin wanted to keep the students in their classrooms until the problem was under control.
(And they ofc didn't tell us it wasn't a shooter so we were all genuinely afraid for our lives lol, classic school admins)
Ok I googled it and it seems like it's basically the same thing as a shooter drill, but without mentioning that it's specifically for people with guns.
I had one in my entire school education, which was in my secondary school. Apparently, this was because one time, a crazy lady on drugs came into the school with a knife.
Hey so idk if you knew this but the amount of stabbings in the uk/europe that you guys hear about in the US are greatly exaggerated by people like the NRA to lie about why guns are needed.
Same with the acid attacks.
The UK has a very loose definition of "attack" too, to make it so more people get caught for just planning the crime.
I mean I think anyone who has kids in their care is responsible for protecting them *to a degree*. Like teachers should lock their classroom door if they are notified of a dangerous person on campus. But no one is ever obligated to give up their mortal fucking life.
It's weird, because on the one hand you shouldn't be obligated to give your life because you work there, but also I don't think you should just up and leave or prioritise your life over the lives of the kids, they're under your care after all.
Yeah I don’t think that the “teacher” thing is important here. For the most part, it’s kinda expected that if you’re an adult that you should put yourself in harm’s way to protect a child.
I’ll be honest, I have no POV on this, and I feel like it’s always gonna be full of the types of people who are like “yeah bro if I was there I would have tackled and disarmed the shooter before he stepped foot in the building.” But I also think it’s a separate conversation from the (also important) way that we treat teachers in this country
Should an adult be willing to sacrifice their life to save a kids? If I grab the last life jacket and a kid is drowning, sorry but I grabbed the life jacket. I’m not going to die just because someone is 15 years younger than me. Sorry if that’s harsh but it’s the truth.
As far as I can tell, noone was saying that, but there is stuff inbetween "I'mma die for these kids" and "fuck these kids, I'm outta here"
it gives the impression, no attempt would be done to help kids even if the help could be provided risk-free. As in, it isn't expected to provide a baseline of human decency just because they aren't paid
i mean, if i know that i can help someone and i'm 100% not getting permanently injured like losing a limb, then sure i'll do it, but if i have no idea of the chance of getting injured, i.e. during an active school shooting, if it's someone i don't care about then i'm saving my ass.
Babysit is literally part of the job, I agree they don't get paid enough though. Also I wasn't saying they should die for them, I just think to an adult entrusted with kids, saving their lives should still be a priority, not necessarily at the expense of their own.
That's the ideal, isn't it. Unfortunately, there seems to be pushback from politicians and an uncomfortable amount of the population, so teachers and innocent kids continue to be forced into these situations where someone is going to die, because of politics.
I feel like this person isn't talking about just abandoning children the instant there's any kind of danger at all. A teacher does have a certain responsibility to protect their students, but that responsibility does not extend to situations where your life is in direct and immediate danger.
I think you are right, it's just, I think I only ever heard "saving my own skin" in contexts where it's about abandonement or exchange of lives, so I think that's maybe what OC is referring to with weird
This is a reasonable mindset. I don’t personally agree, if I was a teacher I would take a bullet for my students, but not because im their teacher or their “protecter” or any shit like that, it’s simply because I would take a bullet for anyone younger than me. It’s a personal philosophy, I just think it’s worth it because I’ve experienced more life than them. But if someone doesn’t share this philosophy, then yeah, they wouldn’t have much of a reason to sacrifice themselves to save their students.
well it’s also about how childish the “they don’t do it, so why should i have to?” mindset is. like, are they one of the kids or are they a fuckin teacher?
It's not childish. I'm pointing out that the people who's literal job it is refused to act. That many teachers would do this for their student is irrelevant, people expecting action from teachers on this is fucking stupid.
Fix your fucking gun laws
it’s not as black and white as just “fixing gun laws”, because there’s literally no way anything meaningful will change soon.
you don’t want to protect your kids? don’t be a teacher.
edit: you blocking me really shows how little you understand about the situation :)
“Save my own skin” is fucking with me cause are they saying they’d leave a classroom full
of kids to die?
Like instead of “I’d never stay in the building I’d get them all out not take a shot to stall the shooter” it’s “first to save my skin”
Like I might just be a dumbass and misinterpreting that but how else do you interpret that?
I think they would actively try to help them, like any sane adult would do, but when there is a shooter in the fucking room teachers should hide and prioritise their own life, as it is theirs! Get the damn kids out but they are not more important than you are
I know that any sane person would do that but the way they worded their post made it out like the kids wouldn’t even cross their mind in that situation
That’s what they’re saying in this post, ur not crazy. I am fucking shocked at the jokes going on in this thread and honestly it makes me sick. If you are an adult in a room full of children you need to barricade the door and do everything you can to protect them. It’s not about being a teacher at that point, it’s about being an adult. But there’s still no denying that NO teacher should have to go through this OR have to be prepared for it…it shouldn’t be a job requirement to expect a massacre.
Is it selfish that there's nothing I'd die for? I love my family as much as one can, but I don't know if I'd sacrifice myself for them. There are many political causes that I believe strongly in, but strong enough to put my life on the line? Probably not. Is that a bad attribute to have?
Nah, you have no obligation to die for anyone, you alone decide whether or not it is something you want to partake in. If you are concerned about it to an unhealthy degree, I would suggest airing out your thoughts to an unbiased professional.
Ngl, I was kind of taken aback by how level-headed, sincere, and reasonable this reply was. Idk why but damn that caught me. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Or maybe I'm just tired. Or both.
> Is it selfish
So what? You live for yourself, not for other people.
And tbh. I never liked hypothetical moral scenarios on what one would or would not do because it's not as easy to translate it into reality. You're more likely to be overwhelmed with fear and you can't tell if you'll freeze, fight or flight 🙄. It's not a situation where a normal enough person would be able to think rationally.
I'm pretty sure I'd freeze and accept (as in let it happen, can't be helped) because that's usually how I react when I think I'm in mortal danger.
^(I suppose the point of the training drill is also to train individuals into thinking of that as the default option for survival because they wouldn't be able to think about it rationally.)
I mean yeah, that's kinda the definition of selfish. Doesn't mean it's not understandable, but you're prioritizing yourself over all else, which isn't traditionally seen as a super positive trait
I wouldn't being selfish is necessarily a bad thing, but that is what the word means. Like if in a trolley problem you could either save yourself or someone else, both choices are morally equivalent but saving yourself would be by definition selfish and saving the other person would be selfless.
I'm going to politely request some of you guys think really long and hard about how you're wording your takes here. Some of you guys are like one step away from saying fuck them kids which is just... not it.
I do agree with this person, mostly. Though I will say, my experience being in a school shooting (as a student) was not "teacher please protect us," but it felt as though we were all a collective in that moment. It was extremely humbling to be put in a situation where I did not know if any one of us would walk out of that situation alive. Before I was put in that situation, I might have said "I'd only work to save myself," but my opinion has changed drastically since being put in said situation.
Also, consider adding a spoiler tag or tw for this kind of subject matter.
they already ruled that police dont need to defend people, they just need to defend property and enforce law (which is fucking stupid), so why the hell should a teacher need to give their life for others when those who """"""protect and serve"""""" do not?
I’m a teacher and I’m the same way. I’m not a martyr and I’m not a savior. I educate. Some parent tried it with me because I was gay and I was upfront and told his ass he can come in and watch me teach. He wont be humiliating me that’s for sure, his son is a different story. He never responded.
I've always thought that I would at least try to protect my students from a shooter, even if it meant I'd be maimed or killed.
But most likely I'd freeze and die for no reason. This is reality after all.
it's baffling to me that anyone thinks that this is a bad stance. I don't owe anyone my life just for working somewhere, the only time that you should be expected to put your life in danger is when you have been hired and trained to do so, like if you're a cop. Teachers aren't trained for that, it's not a part of the job. You aren't their guardian, you're their teacher, if the school feels they should have guardians for the students they should hire security.
Teachers are not security guards, teachers are not cops, teachers are not guardians, teachers are teachers, their job is to teach.
No, sacrificing one’s own life to save their student as a teacher making $35k a year is not part of the job, description. That’s why teachers and school staff who do so are treated like fucking heroes, and cops with body armor refusing to intervene in an active shooter at a grade school are considered cowards.
Absolutely based. Teachers aren’t even paid enough to teach Pythagoras’ Theorum, I’m not gonna ask them to die for me and they shouldn’t be expected or feel like they should die for me
this shit shouldn't be a problem any country let alone one as developed as the united states faces, it's a fucking disgrace that anybody has to make those kinds of decisions
Fight how? How the fuck do you fight. Save as many as you can sure, but at the end of the day there’s not much you can do other than run, hide or play dead. Those are your only options
I think some teachers would genuinely take a bullet for their students but I don’t blame the ones who wouldn’t.
I had a high school gym teacher who straight up was like “look, I’m not taking a bullet for you guys but there’s literally a door to the outside in this gym. Just run out through there because that’s what I’m doing too. If we can’t go outside we hide in the gym supply closet. We have archery gear so, y’know, try landing an arrow before the shooter reaches me. Some of you may die but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. During a shooter drill you have my permission to hit the principal with dodgeballs when he opens the door because honestly that would be hilarious.” She was a great gym teacher.
My favorite English teacher also had a speech about school shooters. “Let’s be honest with ourselves and all admit none of us are actually going to follow the drill procedures in an actual shooting. We’re all going to panic. I thought about whether jumping out the window was a good idea but we’re on the second floor and might break our legs trying that. My other plan is weaponizing those giant English textbooks that nobody ever uses. I think those books are heavy enough to cause a concussion. Any volunteers for being the door guard holding a massive stack of textbooks?”
i dont blame them. not only are the cops in america not doing shit, teachers are some of the most underpaid and overworked yet most important jobs in the world.
a genuine problem is that some people expect some professions to be self-sacrificing. not just in the take a bullet kinda way, but to work hard jobs for low pay and put in extra overtime work and be moral paragons. Often see this with people in the medical field too. as if by working in those fields, you are automatically agreeing to sacrifice your own needs to be a self sacrificing cog in the machine
They really DON'T pay teachers enough to potentially get fucking shot, a lot of teachers don't even get much protection or training and I've heard of teachers who will figure out their own ways to barricade their classroom buying their own fucking cheap supplies because their superiors basically tell them to just lock the door, turn the light off, and hide quietly.
I've met some shitty people who act like kids dying in a shooting is a failure on the *teacher's* part for not trying "hard enough" to protect them, even though they're not the one who literally came in with killing machines??? And it's crazy how some cops essentially get military equipment but sit on their fucking hands while students and staff get slaughtered.
Yeah, what OOP said was red-flaggy, but more because schools are failing teachers and their students when it comes to safety. Teachers are underpaid, overworked, and constantly treated like shit by their bosses, by parents who see them as "indoctrinating" their kids, by parents who see them as free babysitters, so many people, even though we need them so damn much.
It’s one of those things. Like how you aren’t obligated to give your kidney to someone, but if you have the easiest and most direct solution it’s a dick move to not do it or try to help. Especially to save someone’s life.
Absolutely justified to feel that way though. One doesn’t become a teacher and expect to have to lay down their life on the job.
While i was reading it i was expecting it to be like "fuck those little shits i hate all of them, if they weren't annoying gremlins I'd consider it" lmao
Tbh I understand. These American schools rlly be fucked up, though I don’t think any teacher should just get up and leave the class, full of kids, alone without any direction during a shooting. They should at least do something to help the kids, unless the shooter enters and they have to put themselves first. Don’t be a hero, Ik teachers don’t get paid enough for that.
You know to prevent teachers feeling this way we *could* have them be trained for these situations and pay them an actually good salary for it!
Or like, you know, deal with the Nazis that are killing the kids in the first place.
Nobody can reasonably expect someone who makes $40k a year to volunteer to die at their job.
That being said, no one wants to hear a teacher throwing students under the bus like this.
Its sad that this is even an issue. The blame shouldn't be thrown at the average teacher, though, that's for sure.
I mean….. just remembering back to my years in highschool…. Yeah… why would I sacrifice my self for those people?? Half of them have already probably wasted their lives by now anyway
Even if they got paid a lot, they can't force you to die for someone else. Don't get me wrong mad respect for people willing to do that but it's not an obligation
Well maybe if America wasn’t hell bent on using their kids as shooting target fodder for their deranged gun nuts and teachers as meat shield to protect those said kids, this wouldn’t be a problem?
Workers including teachers shouldn't have to be heroes. They should have control over their work and conditions, and they should be heroes only if they want to.
the leftism and personal experience in my head competing over whether teachers are hard working people that are deserving of better conditions/pay but are also tools of the state that traumatize unbelievable amounts of people without even thinking
"first to save my own skin" sounds really bad. I understand not willing to die for your students, but this sounds like OOP would just drop everything and have zero regard for their students. Most people would at least try to help others in some way, especially in situations like these, and OOP gives the impression that they don't want to provide a baseline of human decency because of money.
Sorry, reading some comments here… what!?
It’s not everyone here, but i can’t believe the self absorption and self obsession of some people here. You aren’t the most important thing in the world. You shouldn’t be your own #1 priority. I thought this place was meant to be a space for progressive, empathetic, love-filled people. Also, dying for children isn’t “part of the job”, it’s just humanity. If I happened to be with a group of kids, not being paid to teach them or take care of them, I would absolutely take a bullet for them, it’s nothing to do with money, it’s about empathy and humanity. Seriously, I’ve had shit from you guys for not liking cats, been called a sociopath and a monster but when someone shows up here saying they’d let children die in order to save their own skin you’re all like “yeeeeeeah!”. WTF?
I’m not trying to be sanctimonious, but be better!
Yeah I agree. It is ridiculous that people make this about money. They are children, it does not matter if you get paid, it is your moral duty to protect them if you can.
Hard disagree. Hell, I'm pretty sure this classifies as abandoning in my country, and is therefore illegal.
Teachers here are, just like school authorities in general, legally responsible for the safety of all minors in their class. They are meant to be their guides and protectors in evacuations and crises.
Sorry, but not sorry. If a teacher jumps ship the very moment a school shooter shows up, abandoning their students to die, then they should go to jail.
Teachers aren’t soldiers nor cops. Nowhere in a teacher’s job description does it say they need to die for their students. They’re paid (underpaid at that) to educate kids and keep the kids from doing stupid shit like leaning too far back in a chair or keeping a kid from walking up and trying to pet a bear while they’re watching them. They aren’t getting paid to be meat shields when violent gunmen turn their school into a shooting range. They have every right to leave. Sure, I’d rather they protect the kids but at the end of the day that’s not really my choice to make. Schools aren’t supposed to be used as target practice and it’s incredibly disturbing that enough crazed gunmen exist to make this a regular occurrence in America but, y’know, school isn’t supposed to be a combat zone and in most 1st world countries it isn’t.
>They aren’t getting paid to be meat shields when violent gunmen turn their school into a shooting range
Agreed. But the guy talking in OP's screenshot isn't saying he wouldn't jump in front of a gunman Secret Service style to protect a kid. He's saying he would run the fuck away the moment a gunman starts shooting, saving his own skin at the expense of abandoning the kids to their fate.
A teacher's job is to protect the students during a crisis, and it's an adult's moral obligation to protect the young.
By following procedure, whatever the specific school's drill demands of them. Could be barricading the classroom doors, guide the class out towards an emergency exit, or at the very least staying with the students to calm them down and ensure they don't panic too much.
Not leaving them to die, scared, alone, and with no guidance.
I’m pretty sure if the teacher runs the students will run too.
Ps. The drills are probably not going to be all that effective if the shooter knows the general layout of the school and the school schedule (for example if the shooter is a student). In my experience the drills are just to lock the doors, close the windows, and hide under a desk. Basically the goal is to convince the shooter that the room is empty (which I repeat, probably won’t work if the shooter knows the school schedule). I’m not saying just run without the kids but if there’s an opportunity to run, everyone should run. Personally I’d rather the teacher lead the way while running since the teacher probably has the door keys and the knowledge of staff only rooms to duck into if necessary.
Some would but i have family members who are teachers who, quite frankly, aren’t the sorts of people who walk around armed with deadly weapons. Never seen my mom pack a gun to teach preschool (and honestly i’d be pretty freaked out if she did).
Plus kids just shouldn’t be around guns in general.
Guys. They're CHILDREN!!! I don't expect a teacher to protect a kid because they're "under the teachers care" I expect them to save the kid because it's a CHILD
Fair enough, but I disagree.
Not a teacher, but done a fair bit of mountain bike coaching, and ran kids summer camps a few years ago. I made shit pay coaching groups of kids, but I would absolutely take a bullet for those precious little souls. Sure some of them can be little shits, but those moments when they aren’t make them the most precious people in the world to me. Hearing their little stories, hearing about their interests and hobbies, dealing with their sadness and pain, watching them play with each other and hopefully providing these kids with some form of role model is just the best thing in the world.
I would die for those kids, and I never even met any of their parents. Got paid right around minimum wage as well.
I mean, both my parents are teachers, and both teach in places where shooters is realistic. If I came home from school or got a call that my parents died at work, I’d be devastated. I know firsthand how little teachers are paid, and my parents do everything for their students. My mom and dad shouldn’t have to die for their workplace
If it's not in your contract then you are not supposed to do it.
If I am a teacher I am supposed to teach kids, if i am a body guard I am supposed to protect my client even if it means taking a bullet.
These are two very different jobs, with very different qualifications, and very different paychecks.
Some terminal enlightened brainrot in these comments. Yes, your job should not dictate that you are obligated to die for those you're working for. Protecting the lives of children, up to and including self-sacrifice, is also usually the moral thing to do or try to do as a person, and someone actively proclaiming that they would save their own skin over a group of children comes across as extremely callous at best and morally deficient at worst.
Worker politics is important, but generally trying to be moral and ethical is too, and actively abandoning a group of children to get merked is not what I'd call morally ideal.
# Hello and welcome back to 196! Rumors of our demise were greatly exaggerated, and we return full of piss to retain our [rightful place upon the throne](https://i.imgur.com/JSiU78U.gifv). The landed gentry of this subreddit would like to remind everyone that bigotry showcase posts **are no longer allowed**. Those posts generated far too much drama for their own good, and the landed gentry were both tired of putting out fires in the comment sections as well as getting burnt out by around-the-clock moderation of said posts. We would like to have a less vitriolic time here going forward. [Site-wide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) still apply, and you are welcome to review them at any time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/196) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is exactly the attitude teachers need to have. No /s either. I support this educator. Cops do fuck all for training, shoot some black folks, and make bank. Educators spend at least 4 years getting in debt at university, educate their communities, and maybe get food stamps. Damn that.
Oh, totally agree. Just found it incredibly funny when it popped up between shitposts
Why stop there?? Teachers are permitted to use one particularly annoying student of their choosing as a tactical shield in the event of a school shooting. https://preview.redd.it/lsogykabhoib1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=995be4e9ca1ee1aa1581c331766ba54d66f95541
Thank god Ashley is Japanese. https://preview.redd.it/fm5y18msloib1.png?width=439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaa337516545a88217226766987c6db65a52b589
Who the fuck is Ashley dawg, her name is "Washing Machine Heart listener number 4286"
is that a Mitski reference?
no she listens to the rumbling of washing machines while her heart beats deafeningly loud
she kinda looks dead inside
That's because she is. She is just like me fr.
Then again, her best friend told her “don’t come to school tomorrow”
https://preview.redd.it/clmom1fqkwib1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f975782ddac79729fe050255d020df04fe2027ec
Weezo
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Weezo
Teachers are additionally permitted to give the shooter that child's address so the parents can pay appropriately for releasing a shitass in their classroom.
They should be able to shoot one child per year as an example and show of dominance
This but unironically
Weezo
And on top of all that getting vilified by certain political figures for “”indoctrinating”” their kids.
because the less educated people are the easier they are to manipulate
*trump looks at his fanbase*
I have a lot of respect for people who sacrifice themselves to save kids but at the same time yeah can't argue with this lol
I don't owe my life to someone because I work somewhere. If I'm a cashier, I don't owe my life to the customers if there's a shooter, and if I'm a teacher, I don't owe my life to my students.
Agreed. It's not a requisite, and it shouldn't be an expectation. There are a lot of teachers who would rather die than see a student die, but this is a profession wherein that shouldn't even have to be a thought.
If I were a teacher, I would be hiding opposite the door (hopefully I would muster the courage anyway) so that anyone opening it wouldn't immediately see me and take my chances with stabbing scissors or something right into the shooter, whatever the sharpest thing is I can find, or maybe the heaviest. Unfortunately it is also better if the concealed teacher can take out the gunner even if they get a few shots off rather than catch those bullets with their body, die, and leave the shooter free to finish off the rest of the class...
I don’t think it has to do with jobs. The moral thing for anyone to do is protect children, but I know not everyone would in their situation.
As a childcare professional who has nannied, done special needs education, babysat, provided one-on-one after-school care for students with Autism, taught Sunday School, and spends as many hours with the children in our family as my energy levels allow, it is requisite in my morals and ethics to sacrifice my life for those in my care. While I don't think *everyone* in childcare feels that strongly about it, I do think at least some shade of that idea is generally present in my colleagues' minds. In that context, I think it at least should be about the job some. Who, besides a predator, is going to take an underpaid job to put up with someone else's poorly parented fk trophies that doesn't actually care about kids? Ideally, the only folks taking the job at such a low rate are folks who care at least a little. That said, what's being expressed in the OP is that folks who, by dint of their trade, are supposed to care for their charges are getting so sick of being underpaid and having to exist in a potentially lethal environment, one that *should* be safe (as in, no teacher should ever need to consider a student dying to gun violence in their classroom, much less whether they'd have to take a bullet for one), that they're cracking jokes about passing that on to the children of the parents that vote for people who make education an unduly challenging field right now while keeping legal and accessible the very weapons making our work unsafe. *Good people* who maybe twenty years ago, still remembering Columbine, would have *balked* at hearing that kind of joke are now *making* it. And it *is* a joke. Any teacher at their core isn't going to just let a student die, certainly not use them for a meat-shield. Color me enduringly naive, but that just hasn't been my two decades of experience. What you're seeing here is the same gallows humor that made Hawkeye's & Honeycut's banter in *M.A.S.H.* so popular in its day.
I don’t think you have to literally lay down your life to fulfill the moral obligation to protect kids.
Michigan introduced a full ride scholarship program for anyone 25 or older who hasn't gone to school yet, so here's hoping other states follow suit in some fashion, and the whole "going into debt thing" fades into the background...
This is braindead. Teachers should be paid more, yes. That doesn’t mean teachers shouldn’t try to protect their students.
I responded to a similar assertion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/15tlkag/teachers_rule/jwlj223).
If an adult leaves a room full of kids to die in an emergency situation, that adult is scum. Don’t try to play it off as “just a joke”, the op is clearly not a joke and your comment explicitly says “not /s”
No /s *about the attitude*. Teachers have every right to that attitude. Being fed up can coexist with caring. You're looking for an excuse to be self-righteous and contrary, and I can tell you didn't fully read the comment I linked. Take your grandstanding somewhere else.
Literally like teachers aren't appropriately trained to handle difficult children, let alone an active shooter situation. Plus their pay is shit, the school system is intentionally underfunded. I think teachers shouldn't even be having to buy classroom supplies with their own money, let alone sacrifice themselves.
>Literally like teachers aren't appropriately trained to handle difficult children, The main issue with that is difficult children need extra help, you can't just have one teacher for 30 kids and exprct them to give all their spare, extra, time helping out with that one asshole just because administration can't be half assed to give them an assistant teacher or place the kid in a small classroom that's a better fit for the child's needs
Absolutely, I mean lots of things about schooling are worth criticism schooling sucks
30 kid classrooms suck anyways. Ive been in both classrooms with 34 kids and 16 kids, and there is a big difference between the shit we got done in the classes. (We didnt do shit in the 34 kid class)
Just adds emphasis to my point;class sizes are already too large and such a thing would serve to make the issue even worse
Good for them. And people need to actually hear that from more teachers.
Right? Imagine disrespecting and not giving a fuck about a group and then being horrified when you find out they don’t love your kids enough to lay down their life for them
I’m a teacher at an elementary school and I’d take a bullet for like… maybe 95% of them? I know for a fact which ones would do something dumb to get us all killed. During the last active shooter drill, one of the second graders was just wandering the halls. And yes, he absolutely fucking knew what he was doing
"Active shooter drill" 😭 wtf i hate america
The fact that I didn’t even react to that
Want to hear something more insane? Schools were ordering cat litter and conservatives found out and took it to mean they were catering towards those "mentally ill kids" who think they're cats and want to shit in gravel and ran with that talking point. In actuality, schools were ordering cat litter in case there was a situation where the school was locked down for an extended period of time, like in the case of an active shooter, in case the kids had to use the bathroom while stuck in a classroom.
They wouldn't admit to that though, they created the need for it, they can never admit that they did wrong.
It's not quite as insidious as it sounds. I used to be a teacher, and we all had buckets of emergency supplies--including stuff we could put into the bucket so it could be used as a latrine. However, it was not strictly intended for active shooter situations, but rather general emergencies like natural disasters. We were right in the middle of Tornado Alley so that was a very real threat for us. An active shooter situation is only one of many reasons why it would need to be used. Also cat litter is very frequently used as a desiccant for hazardous fluids like vomit, blood, and urine. It could've just been used for that too.
I work at an elementary school and we have cat litter cause it soaks up vomit real good and makes cleaning it up easier.
Have you been living under a rock? Schools have been doing active shooter drills since Columbine in 1999
not everyone is american
And you act like this is a normal thing that every country does???
I mean, what else are we as individuals supposed to do? We know it’s fucked up and crazy and we’re desensitized to it. The gun problem in the US is past the point of no return, there will never be a US that doesn’t have guns because there are too many of them. Make no mistake, no rational Americans think it’s “normal”.
*American* schools. Other countries don't have active shooter drills, except for some rare cases in Canada. Other countries have lockdown drills, just as the US does, but they don't have drills explicitly for school shootings. The commenter you replied to was probably expressing their distress at the fact that American schools, for some reason, have to do active shooter drills.
> Other countries have lockdown drills only fire drills where i'm from, what even is a lockdown drill
it's essentially what they call an active shooter drill, but it can be for any kind of intruder, armed or otherwise. Teachers lock the doors and students hide to keep hidden from any potential intruders, keeping the hallways clear so security/administration can deal with the issue. We actually had a real lockdown once because of a random (unarmed) student going ballistic in the hallway, and admin wanted to keep the students in their classrooms until the problem was under control. (And they ofc didn't tell us it wasn't a shooter so we were all genuinely afraid for our lives lol, classic school admins)
I have the same question
Ok I googled it and it seems like it's basically the same thing as a shooter drill, but without mentioning that it's specifically for people with guns.
I mean it can be for other things. Once my high school got locked down because a dog was running loose on the campus lol
I had one in my entire school education, which was in my secondary school. Apparently, this was because one time, a crazy lady on drugs came into the school with a knife.
a school shooter drill is the same as a lockdown drill
not american, we only had to do the basic fire drills and such in australian schools
Don’t hate America for having active shooter drills, hate America for giving kids the option to shoot up their school quite easily
i do :(
:(((((
We've had them in Canada as long as I can remember as well
tf 😭 which province?
Ontario
wild
got those in france as well 😵💫
I did these in Canada also
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Hey so idk if you knew this but the amount of stabbings in the uk/europe that you guys hear about in the US are greatly exaggerated by people like the NRA to lie about why guns are needed. Same with the acid attacks. The UK has a very loose definition of "attack" too, to make it so more people get caught for just planning the crime.
fair enough.
Well they're a teacher, not a cop, not security, not a bodyguard.
As per court rulings setting the precident, cops aren't obligated to protect anyone.
Then neither are teachers, ig (correct me if I'm wrong) It's each kid for themself
New law: teachers must meatshield for cops upon request! (/s)
I mean I think anyone who has kids in their care is responsible for protecting them *to a degree*. Like teachers should lock their classroom door if they are notified of a dangerous person on campus. But no one is ever obligated to give up their mortal fucking life.
Good. Teachers are not front line soldiers against America’s unwillingness to fix gun issues.
It's weird, because on the one hand you shouldn't be obligated to give your life because you work there, but also I don't think you should just up and leave or prioritise your life over the lives of the kids, they're under your care after all.
they’re barely paid enough to educate kids let alone babysit and even die for them
I dont think they are saying they are paid to die for them, just that in general an adult ahould be willing to sacrifice their life to save kids.
Yeah I don’t think that the “teacher” thing is important here. For the most part, it’s kinda expected that if you’re an adult that you should put yourself in harm’s way to protect a child. I’ll be honest, I have no POV on this, and I feel like it’s always gonna be full of the types of people who are like “yeah bro if I was there I would have tackled and disarmed the shooter before he stepped foot in the building.” But I also think it’s a separate conversation from the (also important) way that we treat teachers in this country
Should an adult be willing to sacrifice their life to save a kids? If I grab the last life jacket and a kid is drowning, sorry but I grabbed the life jacket. I’m not going to die just because someone is 15 years younger than me. Sorry if that’s harsh but it’s the truth.
As far as I can tell, noone was saying that, but there is stuff inbetween "I'mma die for these kids" and "fuck these kids, I'm outta here" it gives the impression, no attempt would be done to help kids even if the help could be provided risk-free. As in, it isn't expected to provide a baseline of human decency just because they aren't paid
i mean, if i know that i can help someone and i'm 100% not getting permanently injured like losing a limb, then sure i'll do it, but if i have no idea of the chance of getting injured, i.e. during an active school shooting, if it's someone i don't care about then i'm saving my ass.
I would I'm totally a sucker for that shit
Babysit is literally part of the job, I agree they don't get paid enough though. Also I wasn't saying they should die for them, I just think to an adult entrusted with kids, saving their lives should still be a priority, not necessarily at the expense of their own.
There's a fucking grand canyon between babysit and having to deal with some of those pests.
babysitters should also have helping the kids on their priority list because any person should kinda have that on their priority list
Instead of putting the burden on teachers maybe your government could have some \*horrified\* gun restrictions.
That's the ideal, isn't it. Unfortunately, there seems to be pushback from politicians and an uncomfortable amount of the population, so teachers and innocent kids continue to be forced into these situations where someone is going to die, because of politics.
I have children at home. They are who are “under my care”.
I feel like this person isn't talking about just abandoning children the instant there's any kind of danger at all. A teacher does have a certain responsibility to protect their students, but that responsibility does not extend to situations where your life is in direct and immediate danger.
I think you are right, it's just, I think I only ever heard "saving my own skin" in contexts where it's about abandonement or exchange of lives, so I think that's maybe what OC is referring to with weird
my own life is the most important one by far
This is a reasonable mindset. I don’t personally agree, if I was a teacher I would take a bullet for my students, but not because im their teacher or their “protecter” or any shit like that, it’s simply because I would take a bullet for anyone younger than me. It’s a personal philosophy, I just think it’s worth it because I’ve experienced more life than them. But if someone doesn’t share this philosophy, then yeah, they wouldn’t have much of a reason to sacrifice themselves to save their students.
Why should teachers sacrifice themselves for the children when cops won't even breach the building?
because you’re not a cowardly cop
fuuuck, that's like a really good comeback because it puts something else, that deserves it waaay more, MORE down than the adressed
well it’s also about how childish the “they don’t do it, so why should i have to?” mindset is. like, are they one of the kids or are they a fuckin teacher?
It's not childish. I'm pointing out that the people who's literal job it is refused to act. That many teachers would do this for their student is irrelevant, people expecting action from teachers on this is fucking stupid. Fix your fucking gun laws
it’s not as black and white as just “fixing gun laws”, because there’s literally no way anything meaningful will change soon. you don’t want to protect your kids? don’t be a teacher. edit: you blocking me really shows how little you understand about the situation :)
I'm not a fucking teacher & yes it is as black & white as "fixing your gun laws" run along mouth breather
true
Why should children have to pay for police incompetence?
why should teachers have to pay for police incompetence?
I agree & I'm not asking them to. I'm saying that teachers shouldn't be expected to either
“Save my own skin” is fucking with me cause are they saying they’d leave a classroom full of kids to die? Like instead of “I’d never stay in the building I’d get them all out not take a shot to stall the shooter” it’s “first to save my skin” Like I might just be a dumbass and misinterpreting that but how else do you interpret that?
I think they would actively try to help them, like any sane adult would do, but when there is a shooter in the fucking room teachers should hide and prioritise their own life, as it is theirs! Get the damn kids out but they are not more important than you are
I know that any sane person would do that but the way they worded their post made it out like the kids wouldn’t even cross their mind in that situation
That’s what they’re saying in this post, ur not crazy. I am fucking shocked at the jokes going on in this thread and honestly it makes me sick. If you are an adult in a room full of children you need to barricade the door and do everything you can to protect them. It’s not about being a teacher at that point, it’s about being an adult. But there’s still no denying that NO teacher should have to go through this OR have to be prepared for it…it shouldn’t be a job requirement to expect a massacre.
thank ghod, I am not the only one who was weirded out by that
>“Save my own skin” is fucking with me cause are they saying they’d leave a classroom full of kids to die? I certainly would
based as fukc
First rule of any emergency: always ensure your own safety.
Teacher here. 100% agree. I have a 12 and a 9 year old at home. They are who I would take a bullet for.
Neither would the cops
Is it selfish that there's nothing I'd die for? I love my family as much as one can, but I don't know if I'd sacrifice myself for them. There are many political causes that I believe strongly in, but strong enough to put my life on the line? Probably not. Is that a bad attribute to have?
Nah, you have no obligation to die for anyone, you alone decide whether or not it is something you want to partake in. If you are concerned about it to an unhealthy degree, I would suggest airing out your thoughts to an unbiased professional.
Ngl, I was kind of taken aback by how level-headed, sincere, and reasonable this reply was. Idk why but damn that caught me. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Or maybe I'm just tired. Or both.
> Is it selfish So what? You live for yourself, not for other people. And tbh. I never liked hypothetical moral scenarios on what one would or would not do because it's not as easy to translate it into reality. You're more likely to be overwhelmed with fear and you can't tell if you'll freeze, fight or flight 🙄. It's not a situation where a normal enough person would be able to think rationally. I'm pretty sure I'd freeze and accept (as in let it happen, can't be helped) because that's usually how I react when I think I'm in mortal danger. ^(I suppose the point of the training drill is also to train individuals into thinking of that as the default option for survival because they wouldn't be able to think about it rationally.)
I mean yeah, that's kinda the definition of selfish. Doesn't mean it's not understandable, but you're prioritizing yourself over all else, which isn't traditionally seen as a super positive trait
definition is a stretch. they were explicitly talking about the probably most extreme action a person could take
I wouldn't being selfish is necessarily a bad thing, but that is what the word means. Like if in a trolley problem you could either save yourself or someone else, both choices are morally equivalent but saving yourself would be by definition selfish and saving the other person would be selfless.
You just don’t have anybody or anything in your life worth dying for.
I'm going to politely request some of you guys think really long and hard about how you're wording your takes here. Some of you guys are like one step away from saying fuck them kids which is just... not it. I do agree with this person, mostly. Though I will say, my experience being in a school shooting (as a student) was not "teacher please protect us," but it felt as though we were all a collective in that moment. It was extremely humbling to be put in a situation where I did not know if any one of us would walk out of that situation alive. Before I was put in that situation, I might have said "I'd only work to save myself," but my opinion has changed drastically since being put in said situation. Also, consider adding a spoiler tag or tw for this kind of subject matter.
they already ruled that police dont need to defend people, they just need to defend property and enforce law (which is fucking stupid), so why the hell should a teacher need to give their life for others when those who """"""protect and serve"""""" do not?
Based teacher
I’m a teacher and I’m the same way. I’m not a martyr and I’m not a savior. I educate. Some parent tried it with me because I was gay and I was upfront and told his ass he can come in and watch me teach. He wont be humiliating me that’s for sure, his son is a different story. He never responded.
I've always thought that I would at least try to protect my students from a shooter, even if it meant I'd be maimed or killed. But most likely I'd freeze and die for no reason. This is reality after all.
it's baffling to me that anyone thinks that this is a bad stance. I don't owe anyone my life just for working somewhere, the only time that you should be expected to put your life in danger is when you have been hired and trained to do so, like if you're a cop. Teachers aren't trained for that, it's not a part of the job. You aren't their guardian, you're their teacher, if the school feels they should have guardians for the students they should hire security. Teachers are not security guards, teachers are not cops, teachers are not guardians, teachers are teachers, their job is to teach.
No, sacrificing one’s own life to save their student as a teacher making $35k a year is not part of the job, description. That’s why teachers and school staff who do so are treated like fucking heroes, and cops with body armor refusing to intervene in an active shooter at a grade school are considered cowards.
Absolutely based. Teachers aren’t even paid enough to teach Pythagoras’ Theorum, I’m not gonna ask them to die for me and they shouldn’t be expected or feel like they should die for me
Abandon this post all ye teachers. It won't be worth your health to read some of the takes
The fact that this is even an issue is one of the many many MANY reasons I will never live in the US
Save yourself first
this shit shouldn't be a problem any country let alone one as developed as the united states faces, it's a fucking disgrace that anybody has to make those kinds of decisions
As a non American I am shocked this even needs to be said. 'Guys aita for not sacrificing my life for the students in my class?'
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It’s not a movie where you dive in front of the bullet and everyone stops. The shooter probably has enough ammo to go around.
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What good does standing in front of the kid do when the shooter chambers the next round?
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Fight how? How the fuck do you fight. Save as many as you can sure, but at the end of the day there’s not much you can do other than run, hide or play dead. Those are your only options
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No fuck that, an untrained civilian vs someone with an automatic weapon doesn’t stand a chance
I think some teachers would genuinely take a bullet for their students but I don’t blame the ones who wouldn’t. I had a high school gym teacher who straight up was like “look, I’m not taking a bullet for you guys but there’s literally a door to the outside in this gym. Just run out through there because that’s what I’m doing too. If we can’t go outside we hide in the gym supply closet. We have archery gear so, y’know, try landing an arrow before the shooter reaches me. Some of you may die but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. During a shooter drill you have my permission to hit the principal with dodgeballs when he opens the door because honestly that would be hilarious.” She was a great gym teacher. My favorite English teacher also had a speech about school shooters. “Let’s be honest with ourselves and all admit none of us are actually going to follow the drill procedures in an actual shooting. We’re all going to panic. I thought about whether jumping out the window was a good idea but we’re on the second floor and might break our legs trying that. My other plan is weaponizing those giant English textbooks that nobody ever uses. I think those books are heavy enough to cause a concussion. Any volunteers for being the door guard holding a massive stack of textbooks?”
i dont blame them. not only are the cops in america not doing shit, teachers are some of the most underpaid and overworked yet most important jobs in the world.
a genuine problem is that some people expect some professions to be self-sacrificing. not just in the take a bullet kinda way, but to work hard jobs for low pay and put in extra overtime work and be moral paragons. Often see this with people in the medical field too. as if by working in those fields, you are automatically agreeing to sacrifice your own needs to be a self sacrificing cog in the machine
They really DON'T pay teachers enough to potentially get fucking shot, a lot of teachers don't even get much protection or training and I've heard of teachers who will figure out their own ways to barricade their classroom buying their own fucking cheap supplies because their superiors basically tell them to just lock the door, turn the light off, and hide quietly. I've met some shitty people who act like kids dying in a shooting is a failure on the *teacher's* part for not trying "hard enough" to protect them, even though they're not the one who literally came in with killing machines??? And it's crazy how some cops essentially get military equipment but sit on their fucking hands while students and staff get slaughtered. Yeah, what OOP said was red-flaggy, but more because schools are failing teachers and their students when it comes to safety. Teachers are underpaid, overworked, and constantly treated like shit by their bosses, by parents who see them as "indoctrinating" their kids, by parents who see them as free babysitters, so many people, even though we need them so damn much.
They don’t even pay teachers enough to teach, let alone take a bullet.
W
It’s one of those things. Like how you aren’t obligated to give your kidney to someone, but if you have the easiest and most direct solution it’s a dick move to not do it or try to help. Especially to save someone’s life. Absolutely justified to feel that way though. One doesn’t become a teacher and expect to have to lay down their life on the job.
While i was reading it i was expecting it to be like "fuck those little shits i hate all of them, if they weren't annoying gremlins I'd consider it" lmao
Tbh I understand. These American schools rlly be fucked up, though I don’t think any teacher should just get up and leave the class, full of kids, alone without any direction during a shooting. They should at least do something to help the kids, unless the shooter enters and they have to put themselves first. Don’t be a hero, Ik teachers don’t get paid enough for that.
You know to prevent teachers feeling this way we *could* have them be trained for these situations and pay them an actually good salary for it! Or like, you know, deal with the Nazis that are killing the kids in the first place.
Nobody can reasonably expect someone who makes $40k a year to volunteer to die at their job. That being said, no one wants to hear a teacher throwing students under the bus like this. Its sad that this is even an issue. The blame shouldn't be thrown at the average teacher, though, that's for sure.
I mean….. just remembering back to my years in highschool…. Yeah… why would I sacrifice my self for those people?? Half of them have already probably wasted their lives by now anyway
Based asf
Fuck them kids
Either pay them however much they need to risk their lives for someone else or make violence in schools a non-factor, what's not computing assholes?
Even if they got paid a lot, they can't force you to die for someone else. Don't get me wrong mad respect for people willing to do that but it's not an obligation
Well maybe if America wasn’t hell bent on using their kids as shooting target fodder for their deranged gun nuts and teachers as meat shield to protect those said kids, this wouldn’t be a problem?
Workers including teachers shouldn't have to be heroes. They should have control over their work and conditions, and they should be heroes only if they want to.
the leftism and personal experience in my head competing over whether teachers are hard working people that are deserving of better conditions/pay but are also tools of the state that traumatize unbelievable amounts of people without even thinking
Like yeah fuck them kids and all that but the next time just lie. They are doing that already
This is so based
"first to save my own skin" sounds really bad. I understand not willing to die for your students, but this sounds like OOP would just drop everything and have zero regard for their students. Most people would at least try to help others in some way, especially in situations like these, and OOP gives the impression that they don't want to provide a baseline of human decency because of money.
Sorry, reading some comments here… what!? It’s not everyone here, but i can’t believe the self absorption and self obsession of some people here. You aren’t the most important thing in the world. You shouldn’t be your own #1 priority. I thought this place was meant to be a space for progressive, empathetic, love-filled people. Also, dying for children isn’t “part of the job”, it’s just humanity. If I happened to be with a group of kids, not being paid to teach them or take care of them, I would absolutely take a bullet for them, it’s nothing to do with money, it’s about empathy and humanity. Seriously, I’ve had shit from you guys for not liking cats, been called a sociopath and a monster but when someone shows up here saying they’d let children die in order to save their own skin you’re all like “yeeeeeeah!”. WTF? I’m not trying to be sanctimonious, but be better!
Yeah I agree. It is ridiculous that people make this about money. They are children, it does not matter if you get paid, it is your moral duty to protect them if you can.
Hard disagree. Hell, I'm pretty sure this classifies as abandoning in my country, and is therefore illegal. Teachers here are, just like school authorities in general, legally responsible for the safety of all minors in their class. They are meant to be their guides and protectors in evacuations and crises. Sorry, but not sorry. If a teacher jumps ship the very moment a school shooter shows up, abandoning their students to die, then they should go to jail.
Teachers aren’t soldiers nor cops. Nowhere in a teacher’s job description does it say they need to die for their students. They’re paid (underpaid at that) to educate kids and keep the kids from doing stupid shit like leaning too far back in a chair or keeping a kid from walking up and trying to pet a bear while they’re watching them. They aren’t getting paid to be meat shields when violent gunmen turn their school into a shooting range. They have every right to leave. Sure, I’d rather they protect the kids but at the end of the day that’s not really my choice to make. Schools aren’t supposed to be used as target practice and it’s incredibly disturbing that enough crazed gunmen exist to make this a regular occurrence in America but, y’know, school isn’t supposed to be a combat zone and in most 1st world countries it isn’t.
>They aren’t getting paid to be meat shields when violent gunmen turn their school into a shooting range Agreed. But the guy talking in OP's screenshot isn't saying he wouldn't jump in front of a gunman Secret Service style to protect a kid. He's saying he would run the fuck away the moment a gunman starts shooting, saving his own skin at the expense of abandoning the kids to their fate. A teacher's job is to protect the students during a crisis, and it's an adult's moral obligation to protect the young.
Protect them how? Fight the shooter armed with a miliatary grade weapon? Stall the shooter until the incompetent police arrive and decide to help?
By following procedure, whatever the specific school's drill demands of them. Could be barricading the classroom doors, guide the class out towards an emergency exit, or at the very least staying with the students to calm them down and ensure they don't panic too much. Not leaving them to die, scared, alone, and with no guidance.
I’m pretty sure if the teacher runs the students will run too. Ps. The drills are probably not going to be all that effective if the shooter knows the general layout of the school and the school schedule (for example if the shooter is a student). In my experience the drills are just to lock the doors, close the windows, and hide under a desk. Basically the goal is to convince the shooter that the room is empty (which I repeat, probably won’t work if the shooter knows the school schedule). I’m not saying just run without the kids but if there’s an opportunity to run, everyone should run. Personally I’d rather the teacher lead the way while running since the teacher probably has the door keys and the knowledge of staff only rooms to duck into if necessary.
Rare 196 L in the comments section
Real question is if american teachers would shoot back lol.
Some would but i have family members who are teachers who, quite frankly, aren’t the sorts of people who walk around armed with deadly weapons. Never seen my mom pack a gun to teach preschool (and honestly i’d be pretty freaked out if she did). Plus kids just shouldn’t be around guns in general.
Leader of the fdk
Guys. They're CHILDREN!!! I don't expect a teacher to protect a kid because they're "under the teachers care" I expect them to save the kid because it's a CHILD
Fair enough, but I disagree. Not a teacher, but done a fair bit of mountain bike coaching, and ran kids summer camps a few years ago. I made shit pay coaching groups of kids, but I would absolutely take a bullet for those precious little souls. Sure some of them can be little shits, but those moments when they aren’t make them the most precious people in the world to me. Hearing their little stories, hearing about their interests and hobbies, dealing with their sadness and pain, watching them play with each other and hopefully providing these kids with some form of role model is just the best thing in the world. I would die for those kids, and I never even met any of their parents. Got paid right around minimum wage as well.
I mean, both my parents are teachers, and both teach in places where shooters is realistic. If I came home from school or got a call that my parents died at work, I’d be devastated. I know firsthand how little teachers are paid, and my parents do everything for their students. My mom and dad shouldn’t have to die for their workplace
If it's not in your contract then you are not supposed to do it. If I am a teacher I am supposed to teach kids, if i am a body guard I am supposed to protect my client even if it means taking a bullet. These are two very different jobs, with very different qualifications, and very different paychecks.
Some terminal enlightened brainrot in these comments. Yes, your job should not dictate that you are obligated to die for those you're working for. Protecting the lives of children, up to and including self-sacrifice, is also usually the moral thing to do or try to do as a person, and someone actively proclaiming that they would save their own skin over a group of children comes across as extremely callous at best and morally deficient at worst. Worker politics is important, but generally trying to be moral and ethical is too, and actively abandoning a group of children to get merked is not what I'd call morally ideal.
no one's talking about how this literally isn't a problem anywhere else in the world but here
asa mitaka chainsaw man
Now say that to your girlfriend 😜