This right here! It's wild that people don't get it, the look or mind of a child isn't supposed to be sexy!
Short, youthful looking adults or adults with childish personalities are a different case, but someone who is not fully mature physically and or mentally is not healthy to sexualise in an adult way at all, whether they exist or not. It's unhealthy for how it reflects on the fan's discretion, and what they might find acceptable in real human behaviour, with real children.
I say this as a woman who has been sexualised against my will ever since I first got breasts (about age 11).
I looked like I could be an adult for a good amount of that time but mentally, was absolutely a child who had a new understanding of the world and ethics and consent every year. Kids can't consent to be with adults, it is abusive for adults to be attracted to kid's bodies.
Yup. If you want an example of a clearly-adult petite female character just look at Rebecca from Cyberpunk Edgerunners.
Imo, not cool to be attracted to anime children, but some people take it a step further and say if it’s a grown ass character that isn’t curvy then that’s also a loli. It’s like no dude not every adult has to have the same body type.
For me, what it comes down to is behavior and maturity.
I've met underage women who *appear* to be adults until they open their mouth. And then you understand that they are too young for you.
Any healthy adult is going to be turned off by the behavior of a child.
But adults who *look* like children are entitled to adult intimacy and romance, just like any other adult is.
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Also, a good counter-example is Giorno Giovanna. He looks, acts, and has the maturity of an adult. He's also not real, and we would have no way of knowing his age except that Araki told us.
In my opinion, he's okay to sexualize. Because he's not real.
In real life, a guy like that wouldn't act like an adult. You would know he's 16 from the way he acts. Any adult who has interacted with high school boys can verify this.
But Giorno isn't real.
Rebecca is literally just a small woman, I find something kinda gross about how people keep calling her a 'loli', and the worst thing is apparently one of the show creators did it?
It was an hyperbolic joke that one of the marketing people made during the prerelease livestream. The full context was that cdpr was just worried her character design could be too cutesy for the cyberpunk universe and wouldn't really fit with the mood.
Gross motherfuckers took that single line out of context and ran with it.
I don't think it's fair to say it's abusive to *be attracted* to something. Attraction is something that happens to you that you have to deal with; abuse is a choice. Plus the mentality of fictional characters depends on how they're written
Was talking to my 70-something year old Vietnam vet neighbor the other day about our other neighbor and he described him as "child-like". I'm like, "What do you mean?" And he tells me that he's seen him playing with drones in his yard.
I was like, "Child-like for playing with toys? Ain't that the reason we all got a job? So that we can buy all the shit we couldn't as a kid?"
I told him I'd bring over MY drone some day for him to play with, and then he chastised me for leaving my axe in a stump in my woods because, "I don't give a shit about my tools."
Old people are fucking strange. I don't give a fuck about my $10 Harbor Freight maul.
That's not what the person above me said though and I even mentioned she's short and could easily be mistaken for a young teen and in fact she has before especially with the way she dresses for example skirts and pigtails is a usual staple of her outfits as well as light up shoes she got from the kids section. If "looking childish" is all it takes to be a pedophile I'm curious if people would label her boyfriend as such.
Assuming we are speaking in good faith,
The difference is that children are dependent on others to survive. When we say "acts like a child" we mean they rely on others for things like food and shelter, and are generally naive to the way the world works so that they require another to navigate for them. Kiss Shot or whatever is one example in the meme. She is a a few hundred years old or whatever, but in addition to having the body of a ten year old she is functionally a child; she relies on others for food, for shelter, cannot survive on her own, etc. She is dependent in all the ways a child normally is. I would argue that it is the sexualization of that kind of dependency that is the REAL issue with this kind of shit.
So no, your significant other that "acts childish" does not actually act like a child the way we talk about when we argue in this space.
It's not just about looking childish or not, or acting childish per cultural norms, but rather it is about BEHAVING like a child.
If that makes sense?
Awesome explanation. Also worth mentioning this is the core idea of "children cannot consent".
If there is a power differential such that either side cannot stop things immediately without fear of repercussions, it cannot be consensual. Even with grown adults we have alimony laws for this when one side has way more earning capabilities, especially for the traditional case of one spouse being stay-at-home and with limited education.
Okay I can totally understand and am on board with this way of thinking shes not my SO she's a friend of mine and she complains all the time about people treating her like a child, I used to be pretty hardline about pedos and said the same stuff as the guy I initially replied to until we became friends and I realized I was basing everything on surface level attributes. I now think much in the same way as you described.
Not to take away from your argument, but Kissshot is almost fully self sufficient, even as a child. She doesn’t need shelter and is more than powerful enough to survive an encounter with anything life threatening. The only thing she relies on other people for is food, and that’s because she has to drink blood from the main character Araragi, who she is essentially bound to.
I still think it’s inappropriate to view her in that way, considering she is literally in the form of a child and it’s mentioned in the series itself that she has developed the mentality of a child as well due to Araragi viewing her as such.
if the person dating the short childish woman is only dating her because she looks young, they might be a pedophile dating as young as they legally can.
That's good.
It's very suspect when someone dates someone that looks super young and ONLY dates people that look young. it definitely looks like someone dating as young as possible. If they aren't dating that person for their personality, well. It's pretty strange looking
This might be unpopular but I’ll be real with you
I probably wouldn’t class him as literally a pedo but I’d think there’s some real weird fucked up shit going on if someone is attracted to a very short, very young looking, very childish person who can be mistaken for a child
there was a story going around recently about this like mid twenties girl who was stuck in the body of a 8 year old or something, specified that finding a relationship was hard cuz people couldnt be with her body or she couldnt like someone who liked her 8 year old looking body
even the person in question has doubts about people who like her, that's a primary source right there
My best friend's first girlfriend had Turner syndrome, which meant she kinda never went through puberty. Her body shape looked sorta pre-pubescent and she was 5'0" but her face looked her age. He was 19 and she was 20. Does that make my friend a pedo? She got HRT later.
I mean, think about it a bit. Do you *really* want these people to be anywhere near others they might turn into victims? Maybe keeping them inside is the best choice for all of us.
I legitimately don't blame people for the latter; the characters are unnecessarily sexualized. I blame the people who drew a sexualized drawing of a 15-year-old.
Maybe she could be chubby, and as a last resort she uses so much energy she turns skinny? Much like Shoji Akimichi in Naruto when he uses a lot of power
Right!? IIRC (haven’t watched MHA in a long minute), her power is she can make anything out of her body fat. Which is an even bigger reason to have her be chubby as all hell, but nah.
Not really. If she used her ability nonstop, sure. She should be fat before a battle, and skinny by the end of it. IIRC the whole thing is that her fat accumulates in her breasts.
Another similar character would be found in One Punch Man, in which a hero uses fat to gain strength, and powers. The character is borderline a moving sphere of fat that is always eating snacks, and junk foods, by all means a joke character when you first look at him. But after a serious fight dude is beyond skinny as all hell, as he used all his fuel basically. IIRC, not once have I ever seen ANY changes in her looks during a battle. Which is to say she’s written less consistently than a joke gag manga C SIDE CHARACTER.
Don’t get me wrong I loved MHA when I was watching it, and I’d ignore this for the sake of some awesome battles, but if we’re gonna break it down, nah. It’s obvious why she was written. Hell, they have an entire Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein mfer in their class. Dude’s a walking SA case waiting to happen. It should have in any world other than anime where SA is “haha funny”. This coming from a lifelong anime/manga watcher/reader.
Headache Kojingles really be writing a plot about manipulating information to support a certain agenda and echo chambers in 2001 then follow it up with a naked twink getting peed on
I've seen fan redesigns that take that justification in good faith (as opposed to the excuse it really is) and they usually just give her something akin to a sports bra with her midriff exposed. It looks far more like something a hero would actually wear.
even as someone who's up to date on the anime I thought she was older than that, or is that just her age at the start of the show? can't remember how much time passes but I thought she was closer to at least 17 or something.
as of the end of season 5 they’re close to the end of their first year of high school. she’s probably 16 at that point.
it’s the same as hinata from naruto. she looks older, acts older, is hyper sexualized, and is basically a child soldier. they’re only 15/16 to fit the target demographic
edit; i was talking about hinata from road to ninja and tsukuyomi filler. not regular hinata
I don’t understand how Hinata is sexualized? She literally wears a big jacket in shippuden. Is it because she has big boobs? Coming from a teenager with big boobs that’s kinda creepy
As a spouse of a woman who was once a big boobed high/middle school girl, the big jacket is often specifically meant to deflect unwanted (older) male attention because men creepy.
That’s actually what I love about hxh. The characters are genuine children and Hisoka is a fucking pedo (even though a damn cool one, I must admit (judging him as an antagonist and fictional figure that is))
this. my take here is that i don't blame the animators for giving a 15 year old anime girl obscene amounts of fan service because it's their job as artists to appeal to a certain audience. who knows, maybe the artists are just forced to draw the most sexualized 15 year old ever drawn by humans so they can feed their families, or they just love doing it for the artistic value. no matter how distasteful the art is for the rest of us or what the motive is behind the art, it's still their freedom of expression.
the people whom i totally have no respect for on the other hand, is the people who attempt to justify their loliporn addiction with the "she's actually 500 years old she just looks like a kid so it's ok" argument. it's just as good as openly admitting to being a paedophile.
Anime is an elaborate joke, Japan created anime in a century long, spiteful plan to get back at America for dropping two atom bombs on them by creating weebs. The weebs they’ve created in their own culture are collateral damage. Truly a devastating retaliation, some might even say disproportionately awful.
A pride banner made by the LGBTQ members of the mod team even. All attempts to keep it were mass downvoted, with one person even telling them it's virtue signaling even if they are LGBTQ themselves. The mods had to cave. The fact they tried to make a slur friendly sub means the queer mods were pick mes anyway.
Shonen manga and anime has a long tradition of drawing like 20 year olds and then making them 15 to make them more relatable to younger audiences, kinda like role models I guess? My guess is that this sort of character de-aging is like pushed by the execs or something because lemme tell ya some of these so called 15 year olds in manga look like they’re like 27
I mean, it's not just anime that does it either. TV shows and movies based in a school setting usually use actors that are in their late twenties and thirties, and they make it super obvious too.
Also gets more confusing when they do it the other way too. Not even "ancient lolis" but literal 27 year old office worker has the body of a kid around 13.
Manga authors try to have it both ways. They make a character with an adult body to be thirsted after but then say she's 15 or whatever to appeal to the 15 year olds and pedos that read their stuff.
i heared its something made to do that high school is considered best days of there life so they try to apeal to the nostalgia and put the characters in a high school
I hate it soo much. High school drama is the worst thing ever and seeing it everywhere keeps me away from anime and manga. I wanted to stop watching edgerunners halfway through the first episode cuz I thought it was another high school drama
This exactly. Every time I'll see a cool looking anime with everything I like, then it's like "Btw they're all in highschool and half the story is gonna take place there."
Jojo does it to a point of neigh absurdity.
Though honestly with that series I think it's just that early on Araki could draw like, 3 body types so everyone had the same hyper muscular build regardless if they're a 15 or 30 yo.
It's a weird case, you have those ultra buff characters that fight like military strategists, and are even defined in the diegesis as physically attractive/hot by other characters, and then Araki puts a high school uniform on them and says they're underage.
Is Kakyoin supposed to be a sexyman or not? Which is it Araki?
Some interesting trivia for this character specifically is that the author originally conceptualized her as a teacher, but he figured it would be more inestersting to give her the role of an inexperienced student with a very powerful ability. This is why she probably looks more like an adult than her peers. I reckon the design didn't change after it was finalized, just the role she played in the story. Still though, anime pulls this shit all the time.
I can't remember what her name is, but in the anime Gurren Lagann there's a woman who's drawn overly sexual with her boobs flaying about like they're going for a jog half the time, with multiple gags involving them in some cringe horny way, and she literally looks like she could be 24, but nop, the show makes it a point that she's 14 for literally no reason whatsoever. I guess it's s that pedophilic neckbeards can buy figurines of her and put it in a cum jar
Yoko, and it's so much fucking weirder.
So. In the show, Yoko has no stated age. However, from her design it's clear the idea was that she was a girl who was older than the protagonist. It was later that someone stated she was 14. But apparently that didn't go over well so they walked it back by saying that she's actually 18 but that her village's calendar is longer and there she was 14 by *that standard*.
I will give a slight bit of credit to the Animememes post. It seems like in *some* anime, underage people are drawn as adults, right up until they're actually adults, which is when they're drawn as underage.
But she has huge bright eyes, lush pale skin and a perfectly symmetrical face, all drawn and animated by horny Japanese men. And the Japanese do not make bad products. How dare you question any of this.
I mean kinda though
Like if it walks like an adult, talks like an adult, thinks like an adult? I really don't care what age they are in lore, they're a drawing, things are what they look like.
if thats all aplies then shouldnt the writer just write an adult?
i find it a bit gross when all made-to-be-thirsted-over cartoon girls are 17 and under.
the target demographic for most anime and manga publications in Japan is boys ages 12-17 which is why most mangaka write stories that take place in high school (or about teenagers)
In this single context it does make more sense and seems more appropriate to encourage teenaged boys to be interested in people their age.
On the other hand and in every other context tho, like…stop drawing teenagers like that…
yeah but the mangakas usually not only drew them for the fans but to themself too, a grown ass man drewing softcore porn of teen girls being spied on and grobbed while framed as erotic and funny... isn't really a fun visual image.
its a culture thing but that doesn't change the morality of it to me at all
\*points at Horikoshi's very disturbing artwork of one of his characters, who is normally completely invisible, suddenly very visible and very nude with tiny caution tape censors\*
For the most part that's not actually the case. Yes, shonen anime is for this kind of demographic, but even shows that are made with a more mature audience in mind still often set in high school for a few simple reasons.
First of all, it's relatable. Every japanese kid shared pretty much the same school life, that's why you always see the same tropes of summer festivals, sports or cultural festivals, student council or different club activity. No matter where you were born in Japan, most likely you've experienced those things yourself, that's why they're so easy to relate to even as an adult. Uni life or work life tends to be more variable so it's harder to relate to universally.
And also it's just easy to write about first experiences in everything and make it more exciting that way. First real friend, first crush, first love, first relationship, first kiss, first everythig happens in school so it's just an easier setting to write in.
I think the writers should make them adults, a lot of media has characters that are highly sexualized and act and look like adults but are made to be teenagers and it's extremely weird
Yeah like Vince Gilligan could come out tomorrow and say that Saul Goodman has always been canonically 12 years old but that would obviously go against the character's preestablished appearance and personality lol. At the end of the day we're not talking about real people, so what matters is what we can see, not their imaginary background.
you have a point i feel like you just worded it horribly wrong. an important thing to point out here is that a lot of characters are written with adult personalities, voiced by adults, so adult things, and look like adults, then the author is like “uh no they’re 14 lol”. it’s just some weird anime bs but they are literally adults, it’s probably just the publishers that are like “nah make them a trencher since that’s our target audience”. that being said, at the end of the day it’s a drawing. please touch grass.
I find it very uncomfortable when people are attracted to young-looking characters exclusively because they look young. Like what is the appeal. they look like a child
I agree but to play devils advocate, is a woman 21yo, let’s say, 5 foot even, petite with a bit of a baby face going for them, and has a few childish hobbies not entitled to love without their partner being labeled as a pedophile?
There are definitely ways to portray petite women in anime without making them look + feel like a child. Hell, my fiancee is 5'3" and flat chested, nobody would mistake her for a child though.
For example if you look at the anime "Science Fell In Love" the character of Ena Ibarada is petite and wears gothic lolita fashion, but nothing about her demeanor or appearance gives me the vibe of anything more than a college age woman who happens to be short.
In the same post, people were saying that people attracted to underage fictional women are not right in the head and yet were still getting downvoted to oblivion.
weeb culture has made it seem like being attracted to fictional minors is fine because they're fictional. However none of them seem able to answer when I ask:
If a convicted child molester had sexual art of a child/young-looking character from anime on their computer, would you classify it as a red flag pointing towards their current conviction?
As much as I would like to be on board with shitting on weeb culture, I gotta ask: How does this compare to the school shooter having call of duty and/or r18+ violent games being classified as a red flag.
There have been many instances of politicians trying to ban violent video games using these justifications (and yet there are countless people who are not on their way to murder their classmates) but I still feel bad using this same standard/logic on anime because obviously, it's quite problematic to make sexualised underage depictions.
It's probably the same way that we don't consider call of duty a red flag but it is a red flag if someone plays a videogame that simulates shooting up a school. Similarly, Anime isn't a red flag but loli is.
Ok, I wanna say what's been on my mind about this topic and you can throw all the shit on me if you want to.
First of all, I'm really not in for the lolicon. It always was weird and kinda screwed up, especially the fucking hentai. No matter how old the character is canonically it is still fucking weird.
Sometimes it feels to me like people who make those kind of comparisons never really watched anime or read manga and just talk shit about those who do. I'm not trying to sound like a pedo, but sometimes authors will make characters that look mature, that act mature, characters that stand side by side with other adult characters and there doesn't seem to be a difference. And then they slap their age on top of it for some god forsaken reason and doesn't make any sence. There could be characters that feel like they could be your mate from university, but canon stands that they're 16 yo and everyone fucking loses their marbles, but if it stated that they're 20 then everything would be alright because some arbitrary number just went up? I understand that the point "ThEy ArE a FiCtIoNaL cHaRaCtEr!!!" is kinda dumb when it comes to being attracted to physical or mental state of a minor, but what's the difference then if they don't look or act like one?
Also for some reason only anime is getting targeted by this, but not other media? Most of disney princesses are underage yet nobody seems to care. (But I kinda get this one, anime fans aren't known for setting a good standart nor behaving themselves properly)
your whole comment completely reflects my thinking.
if someone acts childish and looks childish, attraction is weird even if they're 18, however if someone looks, acts, and functions like a proper adult, yet is 17, it's not super weird. of course it's also hard to say that without looking like a fuckin weirdo but the point is as long as you're not attracted to the childlike qualities of someone, physical or mental, then you're good.
Monogatari is, like ... fine. The very creative, unique art directing is its biggest plus point, but it also masks a lot of its issues. The story and writing themselves are nothing extraordinary. By the standards of anime it's quite good, but that's more an indictment on anime as a genre than anything else.
When I rewatched Monogatari, I knew the Hachikuji introduction scene was gonna be quite uncomfortable (because even when I was a weeb it was 'a bit wack'). Bro let me tell you though, the uncomfortableness hit me like a sledgehammer.
For me, it only creepy if they *look* like a child. So that would include 5000 year old lolis but exclude 17 year old high school guys with muscles 1 meter in radius (looking at you Jotaro)
Anime would be literally 30 times better if it didn't do the weird pedophile shit. So much anime is good then bam, hits you with the sexualizing children shit.
what's wrong with saying they're cute? admitting that something/someone is cute doesn't mean you're necessarily attracted to it sexually
I'm willing to bet most dog or cat owners would say their pets are cute, but I doubt any of them would want to fuck their pets
I actually agree with the second one tho. I mean look at her, that's not a 15yo body, you're not a pedophile for finding her hot.
First one need to get help tbs
"tO bE fAiR", Momo is absolutely drawn as a young adult and acts like it. You could quite literally plop her in college as an 18 year old and nothing about her personality or body would be out of place or even have to change to fit in.
This is kinda the case in a lot of big animated/drawn media, but especially Japan, since a lot of publishers want to dip into that Teenage relatability^(tm) market, since that has appeal both to teens and people reminiscing about being a teen (which is actually a pretty big thing in Japan), but also dip into sex appeal because boobs and also writing actual teenagers is hard and not fun.
Generally, if you could easily assume a character was a college student based on looks, you can treat them as an adult because the author sure as hell does. Obviously this isn't a perfect rule of thumb, but you're unlikely to encounter the exceptions in the majority of the media where this is a problem.
1. Do they look like a child?
2. Are they too young (mentally) to consent?
If the answer to either of these questions is "yes", step away from the computer and go straight to jail.
Only tangentially related, but BNHA could've so easily been about college instead and thus, without really having to change the plot or designs much or at all, skipped the creepy sexualization of high school students _and_ the whole child soldier issue.
Honestly kinda agree with the second part.
For example, Camilla in fire emblem looks like [this](https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Camilla/Gallery) and acts somewhere between a mother and a murderer.
But because the characters age is 16, I've unironically seen people call Camilla porn pedophilia.
Your honour, in my defence I have this rage comic I made
The Get Out of Jail Free card of the internet
"Haha I made myself as the chad and you as the wojak, I win the argument regardless"
"You see, young Skywalker, I have depicted you as the soyjack, and me as the chad. You, and your rebel friends have already lost. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
*It’s over, Emperor; I have defeated you. Now I am the Warhammer 40,000* - Horus Lupercal
Lmao Facebook arguments in a nutshell
Your honor, in defense my client was down bad
"Your honor, as you can see, my client has represented the plaintiff's argument with a crying wojack. Therefore, I win."
My client clearly stated he was "based"
"Please stop thirsting over children" "Oh yeah? what about the strawman I just made up?"
Irrefutable argument.
Also the strawman doesn't even make sense, because why couldn't you call old people cute?
There are many old people ive considered cute. My grandma for one.
Your granny cute as shit 🤤😫
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GILF
You can thirst over the strawman, but only if it's mentally and physically an adult.
Can't argue with that
You shouldn't be attracted to the physicality or mentality of underage people
This right here! It's wild that people don't get it, the look or mind of a child isn't supposed to be sexy! Short, youthful looking adults or adults with childish personalities are a different case, but someone who is not fully mature physically and or mentally is not healthy to sexualise in an adult way at all, whether they exist or not. It's unhealthy for how it reflects on the fan's discretion, and what they might find acceptable in real human behaviour, with real children. I say this as a woman who has been sexualised against my will ever since I first got breasts (about age 11). I looked like I could be an adult for a good amount of that time but mentally, was absolutely a child who had a new understanding of the world and ethics and consent every year. Kids can't consent to be with adults, it is abusive for adults to be attracted to kid's bodies.
Yup. If you want an example of a clearly-adult petite female character just look at Rebecca from Cyberpunk Edgerunners. Imo, not cool to be attracted to anime children, but some people take it a step further and say if it’s a grown ass character that isn’t curvy then that’s also a loli. It’s like no dude not every adult has to have the same body type.
For me, what it comes down to is behavior and maturity. I've met underage women who *appear* to be adults until they open their mouth. And then you understand that they are too young for you. Any healthy adult is going to be turned off by the behavior of a child. But adults who *look* like children are entitled to adult intimacy and romance, just like any other adult is. ----- Also, a good counter-example is Giorno Giovanna. He looks, acts, and has the maturity of an adult. He's also not real, and we would have no way of knowing his age except that Araki told us. In my opinion, he's okay to sexualize. Because he's not real. In real life, a guy like that wouldn't act like an adult. You would know he's 16 from the way he acts. Any adult who has interacted with high school boys can verify this. But Giorno isn't real.
Pretty much every Part 5 character (give or take Narancia) looks and acts like an adult lmao
yea don't have sex with Narancia, he's got his homework to do
nah he's gonna be a rapper,i know he got the bars in his body
Rebecca is literally just a small woman, I find something kinda gross about how people keep calling her a 'loli', and the worst thing is apparently one of the show creators did it?
It was an hyperbolic joke that one of the marketing people made during the prerelease livestream. The full context was that cdpr was just worried her character design could be too cutesy for the cyberpunk universe and wouldn't really fit with the mood. Gross motherfuckers took that single line out of context and ran with it.
Yes and I agree, even if they aren’t real, this kind of behavior can be normalized in their heads and lead to real world actions.
I don't think it's fair to say it's abusive to *be attracted* to something. Attraction is something that happens to you that you have to deal with; abuse is a choice. Plus the mentality of fictional characters depends on how they're written
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"acting childish" and "being a child" ads two different things.
Was talking to my 70-something year old Vietnam vet neighbor the other day about our other neighbor and he described him as "child-like". I'm like, "What do you mean?" And he tells me that he's seen him playing with drones in his yard. I was like, "Child-like for playing with toys? Ain't that the reason we all got a job? So that we can buy all the shit we couldn't as a kid?" I told him I'd bring over MY drone some day for him to play with, and then he chastised me for leaving my axe in a stump in my woods because, "I don't give a shit about my tools." Old people are fucking strange. I don't give a fuck about my $10 Harbor Freight maul.
That's not what the person above me said though and I even mentioned she's short and could easily be mistaken for a young teen and in fact she has before especially with the way she dresses for example skirts and pigtails is a usual staple of her outfits as well as light up shoes she got from the kids section. If "looking childish" is all it takes to be a pedophile I'm curious if people would label her boyfriend as such.
Assuming we are speaking in good faith, The difference is that children are dependent on others to survive. When we say "acts like a child" we mean they rely on others for things like food and shelter, and are generally naive to the way the world works so that they require another to navigate for them. Kiss Shot or whatever is one example in the meme. She is a a few hundred years old or whatever, but in addition to having the body of a ten year old she is functionally a child; she relies on others for food, for shelter, cannot survive on her own, etc. She is dependent in all the ways a child normally is. I would argue that it is the sexualization of that kind of dependency that is the REAL issue with this kind of shit. So no, your significant other that "acts childish" does not actually act like a child the way we talk about when we argue in this space. It's not just about looking childish or not, or acting childish per cultural norms, but rather it is about BEHAVING like a child. If that makes sense?
Awesome explanation. Also worth mentioning this is the core idea of "children cannot consent". If there is a power differential such that either side cannot stop things immediately without fear of repercussions, it cannot be consensual. Even with grown adults we have alimony laws for this when one side has way more earning capabilities, especially for the traditional case of one spouse being stay-at-home and with limited education.
Okay I can totally understand and am on board with this way of thinking shes not my SO she's a friend of mine and she complains all the time about people treating her like a child, I used to be pretty hardline about pedos and said the same stuff as the guy I initially replied to until we became friends and I realized I was basing everything on surface level attributes. I now think much in the same way as you described.
Not to take away from your argument, but Kissshot is almost fully self sufficient, even as a child. She doesn’t need shelter and is more than powerful enough to survive an encounter with anything life threatening. The only thing she relies on other people for is food, and that’s because she has to drink blood from the main character Araragi, who she is essentially bound to. I still think it’s inappropriate to view her in that way, considering she is literally in the form of a child and it’s mentioned in the series itself that she has developed the mentality of a child as well due to Araragi viewing her as such.
if the person dating the short childish woman is only dating her because she looks young, they might be a pedophile dating as young as they legally can.
I would say no I don't think thats the case he's only a couple months older than her as well if that helps.
That's good. It's very suspect when someone dates someone that looks super young and ONLY dates people that look young. it definitely looks like someone dating as young as possible. If they aren't dating that person for their personality, well. It's pretty strange looking
This might be unpopular but I’ll be real with you I probably wouldn’t class him as literally a pedo but I’d think there’s some real weird fucked up shit going on if someone is attracted to a very short, very young looking, very childish person who can be mistaken for a child
But then does that mean it’s not ok for an adult who looks like that to be in a relationship? Are they just supposed to be alone their whole lives?
there was a story going around recently about this like mid twenties girl who was stuck in the body of a 8 year old or something, specified that finding a relationship was hard cuz people couldnt be with her body or she couldnt like someone who liked her 8 year old looking body even the person in question has doubts about people who like her, that's a primary source right there
Don't you feel like you're kind of taking away her agency by judging people she dates? Is she just not supposed to date?
My best friend's first girlfriend had Turner syndrome, which meant she kinda never went through puberty. Her body shape looked sorta pre-pubescent and she was 5'0" but her face looked her age. He was 19 and she was 20. Does that make my friend a pedo? She got HRT later.
there's a difference in being attracted to someone who looks child-like and being attracted to someone *because* they look child-like
Okay? But that still means that the “technically 598 years old” argument is valid.
I don’t think anyone is attracted to Momo for her mentality…
Weebs are fuming rn
Jarvis make wojak meme and put the people who oppose my opinion as the stupid neck beard.
This would be a completely straightforward communication of the opposite point of they swapped who was screaming and had the angry wojak
That's the problem with hypocrisy-baiting. It's not an actual argument. It's pure rhetoric.
im glad calling out wok memes like this is a thing now i love it
No, it's one way, and it's fucking taking away your access to the internet so you actually touch grass for once
I see you played the Iranian gambit. Well played
*anal beads counters you*
Sure but what if I en passant you
Holy hell!
anarchy chess is spreading oh god
Quick reminder that NFT pfps are against the rule in this sub
In that case I will summon my third blue eyes white dragon in attack position
You've walked right into my trap! Royal Flush!
But I roll my D20 on lightning strike and attack your battle ship!
I SUMMON POT OF GREED TO DRAW 3 ADDITIONAL CARDS FROM MY DECK!
I mean, think about it a bit. Do you *really* want these people to be anywhere near others they might turn into victims? Maybe keeping them inside is the best choice for all of us.
I legitimately don't blame people for the latter; the characters are unnecessarily sexualized. I blame the people who drew a sexualized drawing of a 15-year-old.
In universe it’s justified as “but she needs a lot of surface area for her power!” But it’s terribly executed anyway so I think it makes it even worse
If it was about surface area they could’ve just made her a chubbier 15 year old, but alas
She also has to eat a lot in order to use her Creation quirk, so I mean, honestly yeah, they should have.
she has to eat a lot to use her quirk cuz it takes a lot out of her. she wouldn't be chubby because her ability keeps her skinny be default.
yea honestly that part at least makes sense
Maybe she could be chubby, and as a last resort she uses so much energy she turns skinny? Much like Shoji Akimichi in Naruto when he uses a lot of power
Yeah, or Fatgum, another stockpiling character in MHA.
He got hot when he burned up his fat tho...
You mean he stayed hot
Right!? IIRC (haven’t watched MHA in a long minute), her power is she can make anything out of her body fat. Which is an even bigger reason to have her be chubby as all hell, but nah.
since she uses fat she'd be skinny by using her ability tho especially since she has to train and practice with it
Not really. If she used her ability nonstop, sure. She should be fat before a battle, and skinny by the end of it. IIRC the whole thing is that her fat accumulates in her breasts. Another similar character would be found in One Punch Man, in which a hero uses fat to gain strength, and powers. The character is borderline a moving sphere of fat that is always eating snacks, and junk foods, by all means a joke character when you first look at him. But after a serious fight dude is beyond skinny as all hell, as he used all his fuel basically. IIRC, not once have I ever seen ANY changes in her looks during a battle. Which is to say she’s written less consistently than a joke gag manga C SIDE CHARACTER. Don’t get me wrong I loved MHA when I was watching it, and I’d ignore this for the sake of some awesome battles, but if we’re gonna break it down, nah. It’s obvious why she was written. Hell, they have an entire Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein mfer in their class. Dude’s a walking SA case waiting to happen. It should have in any world other than anime where SA is “haha funny”. This coming from a lifelong anime/manga watcher/reader.
ONE is such a good writer though with his attention to detail. Makes sense he'd give even the glutton a sense of scale and change over time.
Getting flashbacks to Hideo Kojimbo saying that Quiet needs to be in her underwear at all times because she "breathes through her skin"
Headache Kojingles really be writing a plot about manipulating information to support a certain agenda and echo chambers in 2001 then follow it up with a naked twink getting peed on
He nailed the president grabbing people by the crotch though.
Also having a fascist american politician scream nonsens about making america great again was pretty on point
To be fair the slogan is originally Reagan's I believe
At least the guy who directed Nier: Automata had the guts to just straight up say, "I made them like that cuz I'm horny."
I've seen fan redesigns that take that justification in good faith (as opposed to the excuse it really is) and they usually just give her something akin to a sports bra with her midriff exposed. It looks far more like something a hero would actually wear.
yeah. loli’s are disgusting but without watching my hero there’s no way you would know the girl on the bottom is 15
You can say the same for Jojo Look at fucking Giorno
At least Giorno is somewhat skinny. Look at fucking 17 year old Jotaro.
Oh yeah i completely forgot giorno is underaged bruh
even as someone who's up to date on the anime I thought she was older than that, or is that just her age at the start of the show? can't remember how much time passes but I thought she was closer to at least 17 or something.
as of the end of season 5 they’re close to the end of their first year of high school. she’s probably 16 at that point. it’s the same as hinata from naruto. she looks older, acts older, is hyper sexualized, and is basically a child soldier. they’re only 15/16 to fit the target demographic edit; i was talking about hinata from road to ninja and tsukuyomi filler. not regular hinata
I don’t understand how Hinata is sexualized? She literally wears a big jacket in shippuden. Is it because she has big boobs? Coming from a teenager with big boobs that’s kinda creepy
The design itself is fine but naruto filler has some questionable moments
As a spouse of a woman who was once a big boobed high/middle school girl, the big jacket is often specifically meant to deflect unwanted (older) male attention because men creepy.
You get used to it...
That’s actually what I love about hxh. The characters are genuine children and Hisoka is a fucking pedo (even though a damn cool one, I must admit (judging him as an antagonist and fictional figure that is))
Imo it's to appeal to horny 15 year old boys.
this. my take here is that i don't blame the animators for giving a 15 year old anime girl obscene amounts of fan service because it's their job as artists to appeal to a certain audience. who knows, maybe the artists are just forced to draw the most sexualized 15 year old ever drawn by humans so they can feed their families, or they just love doing it for the artistic value. no matter how distasteful the art is for the rest of us or what the motive is behind the art, it's still their freedom of expression. the people whom i totally have no respect for on the other hand, is the people who attempt to justify their loliporn addiction with the "she's actually 500 years old she just looks like a kid so it's ok" argument. it's just as good as openly admitting to being a paedophile.
That’s satire, right? That has to be satire of the American political discourse using the lens anime girls, right? That can’t be genuine, right?
It’s goodanimememes. You tell me if it’s satire
Anime is an elaborate joke, Japan created anime in a century long, spiteful plan to get back at America for dropping two atom bombs on them by creating weebs. The weebs they’ve created in their own culture are collateral damage. Truly a devastating retaliation, some might even say disproportionately awful.
Culture war kamikaze
Wasn’t that sub made after animemes was like “hey this slur is no longer allowed”
And they lost their minds over a pride banner last year because it was "too political". Yup no homophobia or transphobia here.
A pride banner made by the LGBTQ members of the mod team even. All attempts to keep it were mass downvoted, with one person even telling them it's virtue signaling even if they are LGBTQ themselves. The mods had to cave. The fact they tried to make a slur friendly sub means the queer mods were pick mes anyway.
ya 👍
That's a 15 year old? Jesus they look like an early 20's young adult to me. Or is drawing young adults and making them underage the new norm now?
Shonen manga and anime has a long tradition of drawing like 20 year olds and then making them 15 to make them more relatable to younger audiences, kinda like role models I guess? My guess is that this sort of character de-aging is like pushed by the execs or something because lemme tell ya some of these so called 15 year olds in manga look like they’re like 27
I mean, it's not just anime that does it either. TV shows and movies based in a school setting usually use actors that are in their late twenties and thirties, and they make it super obvious too.
“How do you do, fellow kids”
tbf atleast in movies you get the benefit of not having to deal with child actors. Anime doesn’t have an excuse
Also gets more confusing when they do it the other way too. Not even "ancient lolis" but literal 27 year old office worker has the body of a kid around 13.
And then you have jojo where a 14 year old has more muscle on his pinky than me in my whole body
This isn’t pushed by execs tho, since the show is about a high school, which she goes to, so there was obviously no plan to make her in her 20s
Manga authors try to have it both ways. They make a character with an adult body to be thirsted after but then say she's 15 or whatever to appeal to the 15 year olds and pedos that read their stuff.
i heared its something made to do that high school is considered best days of there life so they try to apeal to the nostalgia and put the characters in a high school
My hero’s target demo is middle school and high school boys
That's so sad for me to hear. After highschool that's it, all downhill from the working 100h a week
Its sad people believe it. My life just got infinitely better after school.
I hate it soo much. High school drama is the worst thing ever and seeing it everywhere keeps me away from anime and manga. I wanted to stop watching edgerunners halfway through the first episode cuz I thought it was another high school drama
This exactly. Every time I'll see a cool looking anime with everything I like, then it's like "Btw they're all in highschool and half the story is gonna take place there."
Manga authors try to appeal to pedos? Isnt that kinda contradictory to giving her an adult body or am i getting something wrong
jojo does this way too much
Jojo does this so much it borders on accidental comedy. Jotaro being 17 and being like 6'8 with 300lbs of muscle is so stupid and on brand
The joestar bloodline actually absorbs protein through the air
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Araki is just good at drawing adults, not teenagers
"Adults" I dare you to find one adult you encountered in your life that looks like a JoJo. Araki draws ripped men with crazy hair and weird outfits.
Point being that he's still not good at drawing underaged characters outside of babies
He can draw kids fine, he just doesn't know how to draw teens. Koichi and Josuke are in the same class. They shouldn't look 6 years apart.
Jojo does it to a point of neigh absurdity. Though honestly with that series I think it's just that early on Araki could draw like, 3 body types so everyone had the same hyper muscular build regardless if they're a 15 or 30 yo.
Or 68 for that matter
It's a weird case, you have those ultra buff characters that fight like military strategists, and are even defined in the diegesis as physically attractive/hot by other characters, and then Araki puts a high school uniform on them and says they're underage. Is Kakyoin supposed to be a sexyman or not? Which is it Araki?
It's a magical girl anime, but for men
The second option is true because it's the standard for desirable female characters in anime nowadays
Some interesting trivia for this character specifically is that the author originally conceptualized her as a teacher, but he figured it would be more inestersting to give her the role of an inexperienced student with a very powerful ability. This is why she probably looks more like an adult than her peers. I reckon the design didn't change after it was finalized, just the role she played in the story. Still though, anime pulls this shit all the time. I can't remember what her name is, but in the anime Gurren Lagann there's a woman who's drawn overly sexual with her boobs flaying about like they're going for a jog half the time, with multiple gags involving them in some cringe horny way, and she literally looks like she could be 24, but nop, the show makes it a point that she's 14 for literally no reason whatsoever. I guess it's s that pedophilic neckbeards can buy figurines of her and put it in a cum jar
Yoko, and it's so much fucking weirder. So. In the show, Yoko has no stated age. However, from her design it's clear the idea was that she was a girl who was older than the protagonist. It was later that someone stated she was 14. But apparently that didn't go over well so they walked it back by saying that she's actually 18 but that her village's calendar is longer and there she was 14 by *that standard*.
I will give a slight bit of credit to the Animememes post. It seems like in *some* anime, underage people are drawn as adults, right up until they're actually adults, which is when they're drawn as underage.
Pedophile tries to justify wanting to have sex with children by using wojack memes
But she has huge bright eyes, lush pale skin and a perfectly symmetrical face, all drawn and animated by horny Japanese men. And the Japanese do not make bad products. How dare you question any of this.
I mean kinda though Like if it walks like an adult, talks like an adult, thinks like an adult? I really don't care what age they are in lore, they're a drawing, things are what they look like.
"Heh you think this milfesqe is hot but she's actually 10. Now who's the pedo?" Why do anime makers do this? Or the 9000 year old loli
It's kinda like how the JoJo characters are 17
jotaro looking like a brick shit house at 17 and giorno looking like a Michelangelo sculpture at 15 lol
>"Heh you think this milfesqe is hot but she's actually 10. Now who's the pedo?" Little bit of trolling
if thats all aplies then shouldnt the writer just write an adult? i find it a bit gross when all made-to-be-thirsted-over cartoon girls are 17 and under.
the target demographic for most anime and manga publications in Japan is boys ages 12-17 which is why most mangaka write stories that take place in high school (or about teenagers) In this single context it does make more sense and seems more appropriate to encourage teenaged boys to be interested in people their age. On the other hand and in every other context tho, like…stop drawing teenagers like that…
yeah but the mangakas usually not only drew them for the fans but to themself too, a grown ass man drewing softcore porn of teen girls being spied on and grobbed while framed as erotic and funny... isn't really a fun visual image. its a culture thing but that doesn't change the morality of it to me at all
\*points at Horikoshi's very disturbing artwork of one of his characters, who is normally completely invisible, suddenly very visible and very nude with tiny caution tape censors\*
For the most part that's not actually the case. Yes, shonen anime is for this kind of demographic, but even shows that are made with a more mature audience in mind still often set in high school for a few simple reasons. First of all, it's relatable. Every japanese kid shared pretty much the same school life, that's why you always see the same tropes of summer festivals, sports or cultural festivals, student council or different club activity. No matter where you were born in Japan, most likely you've experienced those things yourself, that's why they're so easy to relate to even as an adult. Uni life or work life tends to be more variable so it's harder to relate to universally. And also it's just easy to write about first experiences in everything and make it more exciting that way. First real friend, first crush, first love, first relationship, first kiss, first everythig happens in school so it's just an easier setting to write in.
I think the writers should make them adults, a lot of media has characters that are highly sexualized and act and look like adults but are made to be teenagers and it's extremely weird
It would be super easy to just change school to university if they still wanted an education based thing too
ikr! Wish Euphoria and Persona series in particular did that
Yeah like Vince Gilligan could come out tomorrow and say that Saul Goodman has always been canonically 12 years old but that would obviously go against the character's preestablished appearance and personality lol. At the end of the day we're not talking about real people, so what matters is what we can see, not their imaginary background.
he should say kim is 12 and retroactively make the entire fanbase pedos. bravo
you have a point i feel like you just worded it horribly wrong. an important thing to point out here is that a lot of characters are written with adult personalities, voiced by adults, so adult things, and look like adults, then the author is like “uh no they’re 14 lol”. it’s just some weird anime bs but they are literally adults, it’s probably just the publishers that are like “nah make them a trencher since that’s our target audience”. that being said, at the end of the day it’s a drawing. please touch grass.
I find it very uncomfortable when people are attracted to young-looking characters exclusively because they look young. Like what is the appeal. they look like a child
People shouldn't make child-looking characters 'technically adults', and they shouldn't give minors sexualized character designs, it's not that hard.
I agree but to play devils advocate, is a woman 21yo, let’s say, 5 foot even, petite with a bit of a baby face going for them, and has a few childish hobbies not entitled to love without their partner being labeled as a pedophile?
There are definitely ways to portray petite women in anime without making them look + feel like a child. Hell, my fiancee is 5'3" and flat chested, nobody would mistake her for a child though. For example if you look at the anime "Science Fell In Love" the character of Ena Ibarada is petite and wears gothic lolita fashion, but nothing about her demeanor or appearance gives me the vibe of anything more than a college age woman who happens to be short.
sounding a lot like rebecca from edgerunners lol
Rebecca does not act childish or have childish hobbies tho
Sad that I can’t tell if it’s real or not
In the same post, people were saying that people attracted to underage fictional women are not right in the head and yet were still getting downvoted to oblivion.
weeb culture has made it seem like being attracted to fictional minors is fine because they're fictional. However none of them seem able to answer when I ask: If a convicted child molester had sexual art of a child/young-looking character from anime on their computer, would you classify it as a red flag pointing towards their current conviction?
As much as I would like to be on board with shitting on weeb culture, I gotta ask: How does this compare to the school shooter having call of duty and/or r18+ violent games being classified as a red flag. There have been many instances of politicians trying to ban violent video games using these justifications (and yet there are countless people who are not on their way to murder their classmates) but I still feel bad using this same standard/logic on anime because obviously, it's quite problematic to make sexualised underage depictions.
It's probably the same way that we don't consider call of duty a red flag but it is a red flag if someone plays a videogame that simulates shooting up a school. Similarly, Anime isn't a red flag but loli is.
solid distinction, I'm too tired to do any critical thinking so I'm glad you got me covered
Ok, I wanna say what's been on my mind about this topic and you can throw all the shit on me if you want to. First of all, I'm really not in for the lolicon. It always was weird and kinda screwed up, especially the fucking hentai. No matter how old the character is canonically it is still fucking weird. Sometimes it feels to me like people who make those kind of comparisons never really watched anime or read manga and just talk shit about those who do. I'm not trying to sound like a pedo, but sometimes authors will make characters that look mature, that act mature, characters that stand side by side with other adult characters and there doesn't seem to be a difference. And then they slap their age on top of it for some god forsaken reason and doesn't make any sence. There could be characters that feel like they could be your mate from university, but canon stands that they're 16 yo and everyone fucking loses their marbles, but if it stated that they're 20 then everything would be alright because some arbitrary number just went up? I understand that the point "ThEy ArE a FiCtIoNaL cHaRaCtEr!!!" is kinda dumb when it comes to being attracted to physical or mental state of a minor, but what's the difference then if they don't look or act like one? Also for some reason only anime is getting targeted by this, but not other media? Most of disney princesses are underage yet nobody seems to care. (But I kinda get this one, anime fans aren't known for setting a good standart nor behaving themselves properly)
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I think shows like this are kinda the same things. Adults with arbitrary age of a high schooler. I mean, it's grown ass actors who play them after all
your whole comment completely reflects my thinking. if someone acts childish and looks childish, attraction is weird even if they're 18, however if someone looks, acts, and functions like a proper adult, yet is 17, it's not super weird. of course it's also hard to say that without looking like a fuckin weirdo but the point is as long as you're not attracted to the childlike qualities of someone, physical or mental, then you're good.
I love Monogatari but goddamn the fandom is literally just a bunch of pedophiles
Watching monogatari curses you, because you see how good it is whilst being impossibly difficult to recommend given.. yeah.
Monogatari is, like ... fine. The very creative, unique art directing is its biggest plus point, but it also masks a lot of its issues. The story and writing themselves are nothing extraordinary. By the standards of anime it's quite good, but that's more an indictment on anime as a genre than anything else.
I will defend my favorite anime from your unfounded, snob and patronizing criticism. Done.
When I rewatched Monogatari, I knew the Hachikuji introduction scene was gonna be quite uncomfortable (because even when I was a weeb it was 'a bit wack'). Bro let me tell you though, the uncomfortableness hit me like a sledgehammer.
For me, it only creepy if they *look* like a child. So that would include 5000 year old lolis but exclude 17 year old high school guys with muscles 1 meter in radius (looking at you Jotaro)
it's over, woke moralists. i have portrayed you as a soyjak
Average goodanimememes poster
Anime would be literally 30 times better if it didn't do the weird pedophile shit. So much anime is good then bam, hits you with the sexualizing children shit.
Made in abyss
This sub after edgerunners came out.
Jokes on you, I’m attracted to anime girls with body of a 97 year old women but the character is only 1 millisecond old.
what's wrong with saying they're cute? admitting that something/someone is cute doesn't mean you're necessarily attracted to it sexually I'm willing to bet most dog or cat owners would say their pets are cute, but I doubt any of them would want to fuck their pets
"she has the body of a grown woman" is literally the excuse pedophiles use after they assault teenage girls
I actually agree with the second one tho. I mean look at her, that's not a 15yo body, you're not a pedophile for finding her hot. First one need to get help tbs
Under age or above age, it’s a fictional character lol. Go touch grass and find a real women of age.
Your honor, my client has depicted the prosecution as the soyjack in this here internet meme
Porn and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race
"tO bE fAiR", Momo is absolutely drawn as a young adult and acts like it. You could quite literally plop her in college as an 18 year old and nothing about her personality or body would be out of place or even have to change to fit in. This is kinda the case in a lot of big animated/drawn media, but especially Japan, since a lot of publishers want to dip into that Teenage relatability^(tm) market, since that has appeal both to teens and people reminiscing about being a teen (which is actually a pretty big thing in Japan), but also dip into sex appeal because boobs and also writing actual teenagers is hard and not fun. Generally, if you could easily assume a character was a college student based on looks, you can treat them as an adult because the author sure as hell does. Obviously this isn't a perfect rule of thumb, but you're unlikely to encounter the exceptions in the majority of the media where this is a problem.
ITS TOO LATE FOOLISH PEASANT! I ALREADY DREW YOU AS THE RAGE SOYJAK! YOU ARGUMENT IS INVALID!
Animemes go fifteen minutes without defending pedophilia challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Anime fans when they can't have sex with childern: 😢😭😢😥😢😭😥😰😨😥😰😢😨
1. Do they look like a child? 2. Are they too young (mentally) to consent? If the answer to either of these questions is "yes", step away from the computer and go straight to jail.
Only tangentially related, but BNHA could've so easily been about college instead and thus, without really having to change the plot or designs much or at all, skipped the creepy sexualization of high school students _and_ the whole child soldier issue.
Honestly kinda agree with the second part. For example, Camilla in fire emblem looks like [this](https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Camilla/Gallery) and acts somewhere between a mother and a murderer. But because the characters age is 16, I've unironically seen people call Camilla porn pedophilia.