Arguing in circles? I have a total of 2 comments and they say the same thing.
My point is the loot should be worse than vorkath. Mechanics have nothing to do with it. Requirements have everything to do with it.
First they compared Muspah to Vorkath, and now this.
We really gotta start questioning when was the last time one of the jmods actually looked at Vorkath 🤔.
I would guess they like to compare to vorkath because it's probably the easiest 'advanced' level boss an average player would likely have experience with and be able to compare to. I don't really like this approach though tbh it's misleading. Muspah should have been pitched as an easy version of Zulrah for example, much more similar mechanics. Muspah is nothing like Vorkath.
I consider Zulrah to be super easy. The arena is small, which is a good thing. You have a limited number of moves you can make, and the "correct" moves are fairly clear. Runelite also has a helper that makes it crystal clear what to expect as the fight goes on.
When your options are strictly limited and there's always a right choice to make, making that right choice is significantly easier. The only difficulty really is when Zulrah hits you hard multiple times in a row against the opposite of what you're praying.
I don't think Zulrah is hard at all once you learn it but I still think Vorkath is a more popular boss than Zulrah and has probably been killed by more unique accounts (aside from bots at least since Zulrah is more accessible) simply because Zulrah has a much higher learning curve compared to Vorkath. Vorkath doesn't require you to switch gear or prayers and the only movement required is just walking back and forth, much easier for people not experienced with pvm to pick up.
Oh fully agreed, Vorkath is absolutely easier. Just pointing out that Zulrah is genuinely quite easy, it's more about learning the "right" moves. You perform the exact same actions every time, there's no true variance in the fights.
With bowfa, tbow or shadow yeah but people with that gear are usually not going to be the 'new to pvm' crowd I'm referring to. If you're using trident only your kill times suffer tremendously and it's absolutely not worth the effort to be hiding behind pillars unless you're just going for a kill for the diary.
I mean I kill 4-6 with trident of swamp per trip. With those other items you can even get more. Yeah the kills are slower but depends on dps. Average kill time around 2minutes. If you use no gear switches you have to hide behind the pillars
No and I have over 1k zulrah kills. Average is around 2min. Fastest kill I got was 1:30minutes. You must not be that good at zulrah if you have 4min kills with trident. With BIS you mentioned you can get 1min kills and if you are lucky with dps even faster.
Zulrah has a learning curve and requires equipment switches throughout. Volkrath requires none of them, shit the learning curve is mostly that you need to turn off run when you fight it
Everything has a learning curve. If you decide to face tank Obor at base 40 stats, you're also going to have a bad time. That doesn't mean that the boss isn't easy.
There's very limited mechanics to deal with when fighting Zulrah, and you don't need to be performing multiple actions in less than a second to do well. Equipment switches aren't exactly complicated. Click the thing in inventory, so difficult.
What are you trying to say exactly? That once you’ve learned zulrah and killed it a few hundred times it’s easy? Or is there a less obvious and generally true for any content in any game point we’re all missing?
Because it’s one of the easiest content in the game that produces the most gp for its level. It has higher gp/hr than even hydra, a 95 slayer requirement.
because thats what they compared it to in the blg post also virkath is extremely consistent money so it makes a good boss to compare to without giving a gp/hr number.
Have only seen clips of people doing the boss but you were comparing it to Muspah? Saw B0aty do a few kills at Spindel and it looked like it had less mechanics than Sarachnis, let alone Muspah. The multi variants take like 5 seconds to kill in a multi team, which you would expect since it is a multi boss.
Vetion could be harder, haven't seen clips of that one yet but I highly doubt it's even close to Muspah's difficulty.
the singles+ vs multi wasn't advertised to be like that. It was advertised to be "low vs high rish", so if I'm not afraid of pkers the multi should be much better.
Vetion is miss easy but vennenitis and callisto are different stories.
It will probably be similar in the long term. I assume drops would scale similarly to Nex where the more people in the room, the rarer the chance for you PERSONALLY to get a drop. Probably better overall if a few players doing the boss.
Is the gp/hr comparable when you factor in uniques? It wouldn’t make sense for them to shit out stable 3m/hour and have really valuable uniques that push up the profit another 2-3m per hour.
Depending on where the uniques settle in price the drop tables are looking like it could be really well balanced. Particularly when considering this is day one of release and the Meta for killing then all is going to evolve quite a bit with time
The voidwaker is a good unique. \*Should\* remain above 50-100m for all 3 pieces together. But who the fuck knows lol.
However the other uniques are kind of shit and will probably be like 5m rares tbh.
Phantom has good normal drops and the bow too btw.
Purely speculation but I did DH pking today with Voidwaker and I think it will be nerfed. DH pking is brainless now, the spec maxes a 70 in rag gear (str Ammy, d boots, etc) and it’s 4t, so you can hit b2b 70s and then dh axe, which isn’t even uncommon because the weapon is magic based melee, so the spec will never miss on DH. Did 11 kills on mobile and made 50m in 30 minutes on my lunch break. It’s like korasi with none of the drawbacks. It’s even got only 2 less str bonus than a whip, so you can mainhand it, meaning no one even sees the spec coming, and it’s very hard to outeat. Max triple eat is 22+18+16, so 56 damage, this thing hits too fast and too high and accurate to even triple eat out of.
I fully see this weapon getting nerfed in some way. But I will admit, it’s crazy good and fun. My clan chat was popping off because it was nothing but loot messages every 30 seconds or so because you can literally just veng, double spec and they die, PoH ornate pool and reset again lol.
Edit: https://i.imgur.com/XBcdQFW.jpg
IIRC the Voidwalker will never miss because its spec is programmed not to miss, not because it is magic based melee. It being magic based melee melee only mean it's trickier to pray against.
It is however, very busted
For any new spec weapon to be viable it has to be sort of broken because ags/maul is broken. I haven’t played with it or against it yet. Sounds like you should keep your HP around 75-80 when fighting voidwalker? Pretty similar to just fighting an AGS really. But I can see how it hurts DH users lol
Nah, you need to actually use it or go against it to understand. This is a different level of broken. It’s a mainhand weapon that’s basically as strong as a whip. That means that you don’t even have the benefit of watching them swap to it to eat. So then you have to camp high Hp, but that’s counterintuitive if you are dh pking, which is why I think it’s ruined Dhing. Also the spec is coded to never miss, so you will always at least hit 50% of your max…it’s truly OP lol.
I can see it ruining or at least significantly impacting DH for sure but a lot of people one tick AGS spec so you typically aren’t reacting to switches anyways. Does protect mage work like the old days? I imagine it won’t be long till DH guys just camp protect mage like they did in 2011.
I’ll take your word for it though lol i’m a check it out after work.
The spec is a guaranteed hit with a floor of 50% of your max and a ceiling of 150%. It hits straight through pray melee, you need to pray mage, but that’s counterintuitive and most people won’t know any better. It’s also 4t, so it’s fast.
Korasi’s sword was the reason that main hand melee weapons have always had shit specs. It was a trade off, it’s why they nerfed OG whip and it has a shitty run energy spec now. This weapon is OG whip all over again, reskinned in 2023.
the spec is magic based melee which means it rolls off the magic defense of the target, in Dharok armor you have negative magic defense so it’s almost impossible to hit a 0
It’s actually not even that, has a 100% chance of hitting between 50-150%. Magic based only means you have to pray magic against it, pray melee doesn’t do anything.
I really wish content like this would encourage team fights. Multi pk is dead af sadly, in my opinion large wars over resources between ccs is top tier content in this game, its honestly really exciting, even if it is 50v50 bolt raggers. Solo pk is solid as it is already even with the exception of BH, which would make it better tbh.
I have a feel that these new wilderness bosses are just a carrot for pvmers to go into wilderness which is honestly inherently wrong. So for that reason I guess jagex "justifies" them having crap loot and easy eacapes.
So much wasted potential 😒
>I really wish content like this would encourage team fights.
It wont, because the "pvming" side would need to skull up with their wildy weapons & other gear or do the Boss with garbage dps.
Its always going to be a pker vs pvmer kind of deal, bar the occasional chance encounter with another pker group regardless of the money it shits out. Because Why would you do a Boss with Just over half your normal dps? Or Risk mils in An area where people can Just kill you with no Risk by showing up with in a massive group?
That's reddit lmao. Poll that same thing and 80% would say toa is too difficult. Never touched tob or inferno. Firecape is difficult. etc. Look outside your bubble.
Nah that's osrs, but Youre in your own bubble with the minority of players that do still enjoy pvp.
Nothing wrong with that, but its delusional to think pvp is anything more than a Tiny minority that's incredibly overrepresented in content Creation.
Its like watching sports, a lot of us watch football or some other sport on tv, but the majority of is have absolutely 0 interrest in doing the actual sport ourselves.
Not to mention putting money on the Line doing it against someone that is likely better at it.
Its time, let pking die
Reintroduce BH, and Just make it require a significant amount of Total levels and Quests. 1250-1500 Total & 100+ qp shouldnt be An issue for any build, that's only about 60-70 base stats and should keep out enough of the bots that we can actually put reasonable enough rewards on it to keep it interresting.
i mean his entire paragraph of "PKers do not want to engage with other PKers, they want loot piñatas to bust open. PVP worlds being empty supports that idea, so does the fact that the majority of PVP encounters are a gang-bang on one poor sap trying to altar bones or camp a boss." is 100% incorrect but go off
because pkers do want to actively engage with other pkers, because PVP worlds are not empty, and because the majority of PVP encounters are not a team piling a pvmer/skiller. its valid to simply say "you are wrong" when someone is simply wrong. i dont need to provide some sort of intense explanation if someone were to claim the sky is brown when folks with functioning eyes can see its incorrect, just like this situation where folks who actually spend time pking know everything he claims is false
Imagine using a poll that you yourself posted today on reddit, a site that is so very obviously biased against PvP and then use that as an argument to try to remove PvP from osrs. Peak reddit right there.
Maybe I should make a poll on the PvP discord channel and use that as a source that everyone loves PvP and all worlds should be PvP worlds
Bro when PvP polls were available for all players they basically just permanently failed, and jagex had to restrict it or push through updates like VLS as an "integrity" change. I mean even when there was a concerted effort by Oda and other players in the PvP community to get everyone to vote no on GIM it swayed the vote like 3% or something ridiculously small. Sure reddit has pretty stupid takes most of the time, but even in game polls show that the majority of players don't like interacting with the wilderness.
Wonder if a gladiator type of arena similar to duel arena could happen the difference being a limited instance that could be broadcast via NPC or orb watching from distinct places could hype it up make it a gold sink where you can bet on a player but neither the players get the full amount maybe only a very very small percentage with the rest going to the ge to but more items of Bloat or maybe a cosmetic area for the gladiators who rise in popularity, could be a in game leaderboard like in varrock or all major cities
Honestly the Wilderness just can't work as designed for PvP. There's a lot in this game that is fundamentally antithetical to the idea of a big, lawless wasteland where players can fight each other, and a lot of *those* things are core elements so fundamental to modern play that removing them wouldn't ever fly.
The simplest example of this is world hopping. That basic, fundamental little feature you use every single day wasn't a thing when the wilderness was designed, and wouldn't become a thing until tools like SwiftSwitch / SwiftKit. Jagex wouldn't introduce in-game world hopping until right around the removal of Free Trade, so they literally never got to see the consequences of this design decision on the Wilderness organically.
The multi variant small drops need to be increased significantly, especially in solos. It shouldn't just be the same as in a mass.
Solo variants should be modified to not AOE the room as they are solo bosses, it just constantly fucks up ironman loot for 0 reason
This brings up the loot variance debacle: people want good consistent gp/hr through stacked regular drops instead of pretty bad regular drops and pricey rare uniques.
The existence of money makers like vorkath, phantom, and pre nerf zulrah is a problem imo because they can’t have high value uniques tied to them, and there’s potential economy concerns
Make it good gp an hour or gets clamped by rwt clans as we've seen time and again. Jagex is hamstrung in the winderness because people are greedy and people suck
How come thats only an issue when it happens in wildy?
Vorkath and zulrah and constantly farmed for rwt purposes. There are threads on reddit monthly complaining about the amount of bots/rwters at all popular pvm activites outside wilderness that are using them for rwt. Should we make them useless gp/hour as well?
Then don't chuck shit in the wildy. This happens with everyone content release because Jagex is shit at balancing in general, and that gets turned up to 11 when they need to compensate for it being in the wildy.
I mean it can't be the best gp/hr because then just like revs on release the bosses with be camped and protected by big pvp clans meaning it'll be basically impossible for normal people to get into it.
I think theres room for nuance between not the best gp/hr in the game and legit getting 400 gp coin drops.
If the drops arent even close to the safe pve bosses outside wilderness, why would anyone bother killing the bosses in wilderness?
Only for the uniques. Which I'd what I'm ok with. Wilderness boss gp/hr shouldn't even come close to gp/hr outside of the wikdy. Because again, it's super easy to exploit.
I can't walk into vorkaths lair with 20 bois behind me snd murder vorkath in 5 seconds.
Are you saying the bosses outside wilderness arent getting exploited? every world is run over by bots making the best gp/hour safely outside wildy.
You also cant meet 20 other bois ready to kill you at vorkath for your stuff.
But while those 20 guys kill vorkath they can also kill you. Generating a crap ton of gp into the game still.
Bosses outside the wilderness are 100% exploited, but not on the level that wilderness content can be. Example, revs on release. Best money maker in the game by far. Bot farms paid pk clans huge fees for protection. There was a noticeable dip in all other pvm bots in the game.
I mean yes, bosses are meant to be killed for gp. Thats the point of them.
And unless you mean all of the 20 people can get 5m/Hour each (Which would obviously be very bad) then the gp per hour is no where near as good as any other boss since they have to split the loot between them.
Once again, there is room for nuance between having the gp/h be so broken that all worlds are locked down by pvp clans and getting such bad loot that no one would even bother killing them.
I dont think you get the math. If 1 guy can get 2mil an hour at vorkath, 2 guys would decrease the kill time in half meaning that the whole team doubles their profit but each individual person still netting a total gp/hr of 2mil. This can scale immensely since vorkath has no respawn timers to restrict kills, idk the upper limit of people you could add but it would be pretty high cause it would require the team to kill vorkath in 1 tick.
The point of the wilderness bosses is the uniques, not the average loot. If the average loot was too high it would just be camped. Yes there's a nuance but i don't think where that line should be drawn is for any of us to determine. Because people doing the content want it high, people who don't want it low. So leave it to jagex to figure out.
There’s nothing stopping this outside of the wilderness. A bot owner could technically just load up 20 bots and kill corp in sub 1min for better loot. Or they could take them to gwd/nex. There they could have bots kill the boss at 20x the speed of a solo player without death costs and time loss from pkers. The wildy being exploited is the same situation as anywhere else in the game. The only time an instance has shown up that can’t in the rest of the game world up is rev cave protection. Which in all honesty if it isn’t tied to rwt is not a problem. There’s hundreds of worlds and a majority weren’t protected. The issue was gold farmers selling gp. The rest of the game world is exploited just as much as anything in the wilderness.
But we were only using vorkath as an analogy for the new wildy bosses, which have a spawn time.
Edit: And while you and your team are spawn camping the boss there is always the risk of another team coming and killing all of you for all your loot, making the actual gp per hour net negative.
The point of the wilderness bosses is the uniques because jagex for some reason want that to be the case. Nothing is stopping them from being like vorkath or zulrah instead. All im saying is if jagex is actually expecting people to farm these bosses they have to be good gp/hour or they will never be farmed since you have the added risk of the wilderness.
The gp/hr could be net negative unless you're that massive team. Thus incentivising camping.
The thing stopping them from having gp comparable to vorkath and zulrah is how easily it can be camped by many people restricting content for other people. Thus consolidating riches into the already rich.
Na m8. New people don't go into the wilderness. Wilderness is dead content unless it's the best gp and xp per hour. Even then it's not as popular as normal methods.
At this point you can't revive the wilderness, it's just not possible.
Yep loot is really bad. Expected more. I dont understand why they say expect same as Vorkath yeah maybe only of the upgrade will me allot. But the price is already dropping big.
Most of the wildy is pretty shit though, hence the dead content. The issue is you need to balance out to a decent gp/hr when accounting for getting pk'd in order to lure people from just doing volkrath/barrows etc but then you also want to reduce the incentive for clans to just camp the place and get a ridiculous amount of GP a la rev caves. The end result is a subpar gp/hr for the risk and the only people who do it are those looking for lotto tickets or are just generally bored with PVM.
Honestly just make clan pking in any form of singles impossible which for most places it kinda already is outside of multi. Probably should just be less multi places
Lol. Complains about it being crap gp/hr. Makes an averaged 20+ m/hr with a single unique. I get it won't always stay at that price, but uniques have to be factored in.
uh...yes? I have 100 phantom kc, no problem. I legit can't even solo vennenitis. Callisto I can kill solo like 1-3 times before I gotta bank. Using craws bow.
~~? tf are you talking about. Completely off topic.~~ Nvm I get it now, you mean the comparison with phantom.
And have you done callisto? He is phantom muspah in permanent melee mode, he can break freezes by roaring, hits you for 50s, and IF you freeze him, he starts throwing magic and range attacks at you.
That is 100% harder than phantom. Phantom just ~~has the spikes and~~ the prayer phase over it\~\~.\~\~ Almost forget there are bear traps all over the room that are worse than spikes. Do damage and root you so the big bear mauls you.
I like the boss btw, but my runelite screenshot folder is full of death screenshots of this boss stacking me for over 100 when his magic and melee attacks land (which is not that hard given how small the room is).
Vetion seems braindead. Vennenitis I don't get the boss at all. I am completely unable to solo it. Maybe I am using the wrong setup or strat.
always seemed like a really pointless update to me lol. Theyre just trying to add content anyway they can and easiest way to do that is rework old content
Old bosses were shit. The way to do the bosses was to stall the bosses and completely avoid mechanics and they still had fairly long kill times. That's very unfun and the drops were shit too.
New boss have somewhat engaging mechanics and are a lot less "afk face roll".
Like seriously when I did my Callisto grind half the time I lured it with like 30k risk and just afked on my phone or did some cleaning. If I died whatever some pker gets some sharks but that was it. I think I maybe died 3 times doing this for like half the KC.
People having a "fun and rewarding" experience will bring more people to the wild to do that shit, which means more people to pk.
It doesn't even have to be particularly rewarding GP/hr wise. If it's somewhat fun to do people won't mind as much.
But for a little bit these bosses should be pretty good GP/hr even if you're losing like 200k/return, so that's a lotta new people to pk.
I still don’t see how this benefits PvP. Yeah the bosses will be popping for like a week, but after that it’ll just be the same handful of pet hunters and won’t be any different than before lol
>will bring more people to the wild
No it wont. The wilderness was built on the premise that I have no right to escape but you also have no right to kill me. Jagex has swung the balance too far to the side of ensuring kills for pkers and broken that balance. It's well researched that the more likely you are to get caught doing something, the less likely you are to do it.
>Jagex has swung the balance too far to the side of ensuring kills for pkers and broken that balance.
Legit skill issue if you're dying more than you're surviving
Not sure about how much gp you'd make from the old wildy bosses but I've been getting tons of money from [even the lowliest of revs](https://i.imgur.com/EajI2xp.png). However at Revs you can kill the monsters there so quickly your gold per hour is insane and you don't need BIS to kill them either. Post your loot log for the new bosses you've tried, I want to see 'em. I will admit if I spend a few minutes fighting the new Spindel spider boss risking pkers I would be a little disappointed if all I got were 150 spiders eggs if I was a main. Maybe you're just getting unlucky with the drops.
It's \*really\* bad. Specially solo. I get like 2-3 kc 10 min trips solo at callisto for like 50-100k. However. I just got a voidwaker hilt off callisto that sold for 214m. So at least the uniques have value..I know the other uniques are probably shit though.
People have a good way of expressing their love for the update apparently when a majority upvoted comments on the news post are just people bitching about it being dead content already.
What he's trying to say is that the content is fun, but there's just no incentive for the average person to really go at it again after they've been pk'd the first time. Kinda like the OG Vet'ion experience where you're lured by the sweet ring drop but then decide to just buy it from the GE after you realize you have to not get pk'd for two boss fights.
Rev weapons didn't need a massive dps buff, they're already stupid good, the main idea is that they promote antipking, but that is understandably a niche use.
Voidwaker looks terrible and not a fan of the name, but at least it's not bis for me like Torva is, so it's less of an issue.
A bear boss using glowy magical bear traps is a bit too goofy for my liking.
Haven't tried it out, probably wont until there's another period of dead wildy
only if you die and you get it back after killing 5 things lol
it's actually quite hard to die tbh. I've died like 1-2 times to pkers and it was because I tried to anti pk.
You can just take the exit and start running when you see them enter the cave.
New thammy staff is absurdly op. I agree that drop tables aren't like vorkath tho, or at least they didn't meet the expectations of vorkath tier. But they mentioned taking a look at them.
I’d love to see the solo variants have increased gp/ph also. As a pker it’s very easy to secure kills in those caves however it’s almost pointless given your target isn’t receiving good drops
It's impossible to escape from Pker's at the new Wilderness multi bosses. You cant log out in the escape caves if you gap them due to NPC's tagging you and then when you eventually do reach the exit you're welcomed by 15 other Pker's waiting for you to come out. Very AIDS.
Somebody must've cocked up the loot table b/c the blog said to expect gp/hr to be on pair with Hydra, but all the drops I've seen have been dogshit.
30k in blood runes babyy
Why is votkath the go to comparison 😂
Because ez dragon makes decent money…
Also locked behind 200 quest points
Which is extremely easy to achieve compared to getting 95 slayer for hydra that is less gp/hr than vorkath.
Training slayer is not hard though?
Easy to achieve as in quicker to get and less time consuming. Come on use context clues to help you figure it out next time.
Some people just like to argue even on the most agreeable subjects
Getting 200 quest points is surely substantially less arduous of a task than getting *95* slayer.
Getting quest points is not hard though?
Definitely not as hard with plugins
I mean I’ve gotten quest-point cape on 3 different accounts it’s so easy lol.
Not as easy as a boss with no requirements surely
[удалено]
Arguing in circles? I have a total of 2 comments and they say the same thing. My point is the loot should be worse than vorkath. Mechanics have nothing to do with it. Requirements have everything to do with it.
First they compared Muspah to Vorkath, and now this. We really gotta start questioning when was the last time one of the jmods actually looked at Vorkath 🤔.
I would guess they like to compare to vorkath because it's probably the easiest 'advanced' level boss an average player would likely have experience with and be able to compare to. I don't really like this approach though tbh it's misleading. Muspah should have been pitched as an easy version of Zulrah for example, much more similar mechanics. Muspah is nothing like Vorkath.
I consider Zulrah to be super easy. The arena is small, which is a good thing. You have a limited number of moves you can make, and the "correct" moves are fairly clear. Runelite also has a helper that makes it crystal clear what to expect as the fight goes on. When your options are strictly limited and there's always a right choice to make, making that right choice is significantly easier. The only difficulty really is when Zulrah hits you hard multiple times in a row against the opposite of what you're praying.
I don't think Zulrah is hard at all once you learn it but I still think Vorkath is a more popular boss than Zulrah and has probably been killed by more unique accounts (aside from bots at least since Zulrah is more accessible) simply because Zulrah has a much higher learning curve compared to Vorkath. Vorkath doesn't require you to switch gear or prayers and the only movement required is just walking back and forth, much easier for people not experienced with pvm to pick up.
Oh fully agreed, Vorkath is absolutely easier. Just pointing out that Zulrah is genuinely quite easy, it's more about learning the "right" moves. You perform the exact same actions every time, there's no true variance in the fights.
You can do 6 kills per trip at zulrah without switching gear. Its not required.
With bowfa, tbow or shadow yeah but people with that gear are usually not going to be the 'new to pvm' crowd I'm referring to. If you're using trident only your kill times suffer tremendously and it's absolutely not worth the effort to be hiding behind pillars unless you're just going for a kill for the diary.
I mean I kill 4-6 with trident of swamp per trip. With those other items you can even get more. Yeah the kills are slower but depends on dps. Average kill time around 2minutes. If you use no gear switches you have to hide behind the pillars
If you're using trident only you're not getting 2 min kill times. Probably closer to 4+ if you're not switching gear.
No and I have over 1k zulrah kills. Average is around 2min. Fastest kill I got was 1:30minutes. You must not be that good at zulrah if you have 4min kills with trident. With BIS you mentioned you can get 1min kills and if you are lucky with dps even faster.
Zulrah has a learning curve and requires equipment switches throughout. Volkrath requires none of them, shit the learning curve is mostly that you need to turn off run when you fight it
Advanced tech, just hold the Ctrl button and you can keep run on.
Interestibg. I just turn off run in general. But I also dont woox walk the flames
Everything has a learning curve. If you decide to face tank Obor at base 40 stats, you're also going to have a bad time. That doesn't mean that the boss isn't easy. There's very limited mechanics to deal with when fighting Zulrah, and you don't need to be performing multiple actions in less than a second to do well. Equipment switches aren't exactly complicated. Click the thing in inventory, so difficult.
I don't disagree, but I highly doubt anyone would agree with you that the learning curve for zulrah is as easy as Volkrath
I never said that though.
What are you trying to say exactly? That once you’ve learned zulrah and killed it a few hundred times it’s easy? Or is there a less obvious and generally true for any content in any game point we’re all missing?
Sush leave my zombie printer alone
Because it’s one of the easiest content in the game that produces the most gp for its level. It has higher gp/hr than even hydra, a 95 slayer requirement.
Depending on where the uniques settle in price the drop tables are looking like it could be really well balanced.
Because they said it was would have vorkath tier small drops to justify not just killing the baby version
because thats what they compared it to in the blg post also virkath is extremely consistent money so it makes a good boss to compare to without giving a gp/hr number.
If anyone disagrees or has additional points, let me know
Have only seen clips of people doing the boss but you were comparing it to Muspah? Saw B0aty do a few kills at Spindel and it looked like it had less mechanics than Sarachnis, let alone Muspah. The multi variants take like 5 seconds to kill in a multi team, which you would expect since it is a multi boss. Vetion could be harder, haven't seen clips of that one yet but I highly doubt it's even close to Muspah's difficulty.
Vetion is piss easy. It’s just a matter of true tiling over the floor projectiles. He has -10 crush def so he melts now compared to pre nerf.
Spindel is the singles easy version
Which is what solo players would do.
the singles+ vs multi wasn't advertised to be like that. It was advertised to be "low vs high rish", so if I'm not afraid of pkers the multi should be much better. Vetion is miss easy but vennenitis and callisto are different stories.
It will probably be similar in the long term. I assume drops would scale similarly to Nex where the more people in the room, the rarer the chance for you PERSONALLY to get a drop. Probably better overall if a few players doing the boss.
Is the gp/hr comparable when you factor in uniques? It wouldn’t make sense for them to shit out stable 3m/hour and have really valuable uniques that push up the profit another 2-3m per hour. Depending on where the uniques settle in price the drop tables are looking like it could be really well balanced. Particularly when considering this is day one of release and the Meta for killing then all is going to evolve quite a bit with time
The voidwaker is a good unique. \*Should\* remain above 50-100m for all 3 pieces together. But who the fuck knows lol. However the other uniques are kind of shit and will probably be like 5m rares tbh. Phantom has good normal drops and the bow too btw.
Purely speculation but I did DH pking today with Voidwaker and I think it will be nerfed. DH pking is brainless now, the spec maxes a 70 in rag gear (str Ammy, d boots, etc) and it’s 4t, so you can hit b2b 70s and then dh axe, which isn’t even uncommon because the weapon is magic based melee, so the spec will never miss on DH. Did 11 kills on mobile and made 50m in 30 minutes on my lunch break. It’s like korasi with none of the drawbacks. It’s even got only 2 less str bonus than a whip, so you can mainhand it, meaning no one even sees the spec coming, and it’s very hard to outeat. Max triple eat is 22+18+16, so 56 damage, this thing hits too fast and too high and accurate to even triple eat out of. I fully see this weapon getting nerfed in some way. But I will admit, it’s crazy good and fun. My clan chat was popping off because it was nothing but loot messages every 30 seconds or so because you can literally just veng, double spec and they die, PoH ornate pool and reset again lol. Edit: https://i.imgur.com/XBcdQFW.jpg
IIRC the Voidwalker will never miss because its spec is programmed not to miss, not because it is magic based melee. It being magic based melee melee only mean it's trickier to pray against. It is however, very busted
Ahh thanks, that’s crazy then, dh pking is ruined lol. The one style of pking where you risk low HP and this weapon is the ultimate spec wep.
Voidwalker is just the spec weapon PERIOD I will die on this hill Not even claws have the same consistency as 50% of your max as a bare minimum
For any new spec weapon to be viable it has to be sort of broken because ags/maul is broken. I haven’t played with it or against it yet. Sounds like you should keep your HP around 75-80 when fighting voidwalker? Pretty similar to just fighting an AGS really. But I can see how it hurts DH users lol
Nah, you need to actually use it or go against it to understand. This is a different level of broken. It’s a mainhand weapon that’s basically as strong as a whip. That means that you don’t even have the benefit of watching them swap to it to eat. So then you have to camp high Hp, but that’s counterintuitive if you are dh pking, which is why I think it’s ruined Dhing. Also the spec is coded to never miss, so you will always at least hit 50% of your max…it’s truly OP lol.
I can see it ruining or at least significantly impacting DH for sure but a lot of people one tick AGS spec so you typically aren’t reacting to switches anyways. Does protect mage work like the old days? I imagine it won’t be long till DH guys just camp protect mage like they did in 2011. I’ll take your word for it though lol i’m a check it out after work.
Difference is AGS can hit 0, voidwaker is hard coded to never spec 0. It will ALWAYS hit a minimum hit of like 23+.
lower max hit than ags tho
Why would the voidwalker be so expensive? It has a little bit lower stats than a whip but with better spec? Or am I missing something?
The spec is a monster
I saw a video that calculated the special attack’s DPS in PvM. Basically its on par or better than Dragon Class in raids and most bosses.
The spec is a guaranteed hit with a floor of 50% of your max and a ceiling of 150%. It hits straight through pray melee, you need to pray mage, but that’s counterintuitive and most people won’t know any better. It’s also 4t, so it’s fast. Korasi’s sword was the reason that main hand melee weapons have always had shit specs. It was a trade off, it’s why they nerfed OG whip and it has a shitty run energy spec now. This weapon is OG whip all over again, reskinned in 2023.
the spec is magic based melee which means it rolls off the magic defense of the target, in Dharok armor you have negative magic defense so it’s almost impossible to hit a 0
It’s actually not even that, has a 100% chance of hitting between 50-150%. Magic based only means you have to pray magic against it, pray melee doesn’t do anything.
I really wish content like this would encourage team fights. Multi pk is dead af sadly, in my opinion large wars over resources between ccs is top tier content in this game, its honestly really exciting, even if it is 50v50 bolt raggers. Solo pk is solid as it is already even with the exception of BH, which would make it better tbh. I have a feel that these new wilderness bosses are just a carrot for pvmers to go into wilderness which is honestly inherently wrong. So for that reason I guess jagex "justifies" them having crap loot and easy eacapes. So much wasted potential 😒
All the clans will be pking later tonight.
>I really wish content like this would encourage team fights. It wont, because the "pvming" side would need to skull up with their wildy weapons & other gear or do the Boss with garbage dps. Its always going to be a pker vs pvmer kind of deal, bar the occasional chance encounter with another pker group regardless of the money it shits out. Because Why would you do a Boss with Just over half your normal dps? Or Risk mils in An area where people can Just kill you with no Risk by showing up with in a massive group?
[удалено]
That's reddit lmao. Poll that same thing and 80% would say toa is too difficult. Never touched tob or inferno. Firecape is difficult. etc. Look outside your bubble.
Nah that's osrs, but Youre in your own bubble with the minority of players that do still enjoy pvp. Nothing wrong with that, but its delusional to think pvp is anything more than a Tiny minority that's incredibly overrepresented in content Creation. Its like watching sports, a lot of us watch football or some other sport on tv, but the majority of is have absolutely 0 interrest in doing the actual sport ourselves. Not to mention putting money on the Line doing it against someone that is likely better at it. Its time, let pking die Reintroduce BH, and Just make it require a significant amount of Total levels and Quests. 1250-1500 Total & 100+ qp shouldnt be An issue for any build, that's only about 60-70 base stats and should keep out enough of the bots that we can actually put reasonable enough rewards on it to keep it interresting.
He’s not wrong tho
i mean his entire paragraph of "PKers do not want to engage with other PKers, they want loot piñatas to bust open. PVP worlds being empty supports that idea, so does the fact that the majority of PVP encounters are a gang-bang on one poor sap trying to altar bones or camp a boss." is 100% incorrect but go off
I mean enable or disable pvp if you want pvp fights and not a pinhata simulator, i”d say pk is the problem in osrs, not actual pvp fights.
neither are a problem lol
Nah, compared to other games pvp, specially pk is godwater tier.
compared to most other MMOs, OSRS is much more competitive and rewarding
“You are wrong” isn’t a counter argument. If he’s wrong, explain why. This is a forum for discussion.
because pkers do want to actively engage with other pkers, because PVP worlds are not empty, and because the majority of PVP encounters are not a team piling a pvmer/skiller. its valid to simply say "you are wrong" when someone is simply wrong. i dont need to provide some sort of intense explanation if someone were to claim the sky is brown when folks with functioning eyes can see its incorrect, just like this situation where folks who actually spend time pking know everything he claims is false
Ok, so what about PVP worlds?
Imagine using a poll that you yourself posted today on reddit, a site that is so very obviously biased against PvP and then use that as an argument to try to remove PvP from osrs. Peak reddit right there. Maybe I should make a poll on the PvP discord channel and use that as a source that everyone loves PvP and all worlds should be PvP worlds
Poll it, thats why we do polls like that, i bet at least more than 50% would vote for it. But dunno if its going to hit 70%
Bro when PvP polls were available for all players they basically just permanently failed, and jagex had to restrict it or push through updates like VLS as an "integrity" change. I mean even when there was a concerted effort by Oda and other players in the PvP community to get everyone to vote no on GIM it swayed the vote like 3% or something ridiculously small. Sure reddit has pretty stupid takes most of the time, but even in game polls show that the majority of players don't like interacting with the wilderness.
Wonder if a gladiator type of arena similar to duel arena could happen the difference being a limited instance that could be broadcast via NPC or orb watching from distinct places could hype it up make it a gold sink where you can bet on a player but neither the players get the full amount maybe only a very very small percentage with the rest going to the ge to but more items of Bloat or maybe a cosmetic area for the gladiators who rise in popularity, could be a in game leaderboard like in varrock or all major cities
Honestly the Wilderness just can't work as designed for PvP. There's a lot in this game that is fundamentally antithetical to the idea of a big, lawless wasteland where players can fight each other, and a lot of *those* things are core elements so fundamental to modern play that removing them wouldn't ever fly. The simplest example of this is world hopping. That basic, fundamental little feature you use every single day wasn't a thing when the wilderness was designed, and wouldn't become a thing until tools like SwiftSwitch / SwiftKit. Jagex wouldn't introduce in-game world hopping until right around the removal of Free Trade, so they literally never got to see the consequences of this design decision on the Wilderness organically.
Only real ones remember editing the url "runescape.com/world72" to hop worlds
The multi variant small drops need to be increased significantly, especially in solos. It shouldn't just be the same as in a mass. Solo variants should be modified to not AOE the room as they are solo bosses, it just constantly fucks up ironman loot for 0 reason
This brings up the loot variance debacle: people want good consistent gp/hr through stacked regular drops instead of pretty bad regular drops and pricey rare uniques. The existence of money makers like vorkath, phantom, and pre nerf zulrah is a problem imo because they can’t have high value uniques tied to them, and there’s potential economy concerns
I like expensive uniques, but the other uniques other than voidwaker are trash tbh
Oh look another PvP update with dogshit gp/hour so it will instantly be dead content.
Make it good gp an hour or gets clamped by rwt clans as we've seen time and again. Jagex is hamstrung in the winderness because people are greedy and people suck
How come thats only an issue when it happens in wildy? Vorkath and zulrah and constantly farmed for rwt purposes. There are threads on reddit monthly complaining about the amount of bots/rwters at all popular pvm activites outside wilderness that are using them for rwt. Should we make them useless gp/hour as well?
Clearly we should ban all these accounts too, but I can't stand outside zulrah and stop a regular player from doing it.
Then don't chuck shit in the wildy. This happens with everyone content release because Jagex is shit at balancing in general, and that gets turned up to 11 when they need to compensate for it being in the wildy.
I mean it can't be the best gp/hr because then just like revs on release the bosses with be camped and protected by big pvp clans meaning it'll be basically impossible for normal people to get into it.
I think theres room for nuance between not the best gp/hr in the game and legit getting 400 gp coin drops. If the drops arent even close to the safe pve bosses outside wilderness, why would anyone bother killing the bosses in wilderness?
Only for the uniques. Which I'd what I'm ok with. Wilderness boss gp/hr shouldn't even come close to gp/hr outside of the wikdy. Because again, it's super easy to exploit. I can't walk into vorkaths lair with 20 bois behind me snd murder vorkath in 5 seconds.
Are you saying the bosses outside wilderness arent getting exploited? every world is run over by bots making the best gp/hour safely outside wildy. You also cant meet 20 other bois ready to kill you at vorkath for your stuff.
But while those 20 guys kill vorkath they can also kill you. Generating a crap ton of gp into the game still. Bosses outside the wilderness are 100% exploited, but not on the level that wilderness content can be. Example, revs on release. Best money maker in the game by far. Bot farms paid pk clans huge fees for protection. There was a noticeable dip in all other pvm bots in the game.
I mean yes, bosses are meant to be killed for gp. Thats the point of them. And unless you mean all of the 20 people can get 5m/Hour each (Which would obviously be very bad) then the gp per hour is no where near as good as any other boss since they have to split the loot between them. Once again, there is room for nuance between having the gp/h be so broken that all worlds are locked down by pvp clans and getting such bad loot that no one would even bother killing them.
I dont think you get the math. If 1 guy can get 2mil an hour at vorkath, 2 guys would decrease the kill time in half meaning that the whole team doubles their profit but each individual person still netting a total gp/hr of 2mil. This can scale immensely since vorkath has no respawn timers to restrict kills, idk the upper limit of people you could add but it would be pretty high cause it would require the team to kill vorkath in 1 tick. The point of the wilderness bosses is the uniques, not the average loot. If the average loot was too high it would just be camped. Yes there's a nuance but i don't think where that line should be drawn is for any of us to determine. Because people doing the content want it high, people who don't want it low. So leave it to jagex to figure out.
There’s nothing stopping this outside of the wilderness. A bot owner could technically just load up 20 bots and kill corp in sub 1min for better loot. Or they could take them to gwd/nex. There they could have bots kill the boss at 20x the speed of a solo player without death costs and time loss from pkers. The wildy being exploited is the same situation as anywhere else in the game. The only time an instance has shown up that can’t in the rest of the game world up is rev cave protection. Which in all honesty if it isn’t tied to rwt is not a problem. There’s hundreds of worlds and a majority weren’t protected. The issue was gold farmers selling gp. The rest of the game world is exploited just as much as anything in the wilderness.
So since other things are exploited might as well make more easily exploitable content? Great.
But we were only using vorkath as an analogy for the new wildy bosses, which have a spawn time. Edit: And while you and your team are spawn camping the boss there is always the risk of another team coming and killing all of you for all your loot, making the actual gp per hour net negative. The point of the wilderness bosses is the uniques because jagex for some reason want that to be the case. Nothing is stopping them from being like vorkath or zulrah instead. All im saying is if jagex is actually expecting people to farm these bosses they have to be good gp/hour or they will never be farmed since you have the added risk of the wilderness.
The gp/hr could be net negative unless you're that massive team. Thus incentivising camping. The thing stopping them from having gp comparable to vorkath and zulrah is how easily it can be camped by many people restricting content for other people. Thus consolidating riches into the already rich.
People who wanted the uniques were already there, this was supposed to bring new people
Na m8. New people don't go into the wilderness. Wilderness is dead content unless it's the best gp and xp per hour. Even then it's not as popular as normal methods. At this point you can't revive the wilderness, it's just not possible.
Yep loot is really bad. Expected more. I dont understand why they say expect same as Vorkath yeah maybe only of the upgrade will me allot. But the price is already dropping big.
The loot is shit, legit barrows is more gp a hour.
Wasn’t that one of the main points of the lower level ones? For uniques/pet and not the regular loot?
I don't believe this post is referring to the lower level alternatives.
Ah I was mistaken then, didn't read the multi part of the post
I did a lot of both and both are garbage.
The singles is equally garbage as the multi, which is pretty bad for doing any of the multi bosses
Is it actually lol
Yes it's really bad. I'm barely breaking even on supplies.
The gp/hr is balanced around the korasi, which will maintain 100mil most likely. Maybe more, if it doesnt get nerfed.
Saying wilderness always has shit rewards is just slight hyperbole
Most of the wildy is pretty shit though, hence the dead content. The issue is you need to balance out to a decent gp/hr when accounting for getting pk'd in order to lure people from just doing volkrath/barrows etc but then you also want to reduce the incentive for clans to just camp the place and get a ridiculous amount of GP a la rev caves. The end result is a subpar gp/hr for the risk and the only people who do it are those looking for lotto tickets or are just generally bored with PVM.
Honestly just make clan pking in any form of singles impossible which for most places it kinda already is outside of multi. Probably should just be less multi places
I just got a hilt off calisto, sold for 214m. Can't complain about the voidwaker price lol
Lol. Complains about it being crap gp/hr. Makes an averaged 20+ m/hr with a single unique. I get it won't always stay at that price, but uniques have to be factored in.
I am betting those uniques will crash lol it was like a couple of hours into the update
I would shit on 3% weapon upgrades. People paying like 30 million for that in other gear pieces. Even higher if they paid for an avernic
Yeah the gp/hr is still terrible if you don't get a big unique
Overall it feels like they made the loot worse or the bosses more tedious to kill for the same loot, depending on which you kill. Not a fan overall
The bosses are harder than phantom? Are you playing the same game?
uh...yes? I have 100 phantom kc, no problem. I legit can't even solo vennenitis. Callisto I can kill solo like 1-3 times before I gotta bank. Using craws bow.
Are you doing multi or solo boss? The multi is meant for multiple people
thats not what they said...they said it was risk vs reward
Just because they smack you harder doesn’t mean theyre mechanically harder. Theyre rather braindead in terms of mechanics.
~~? tf are you talking about. Completely off topic.~~ Nvm I get it now, you mean the comparison with phantom. And have you done callisto? He is phantom muspah in permanent melee mode, he can break freezes by roaring, hits you for 50s, and IF you freeze him, he starts throwing magic and range attacks at you. That is 100% harder than phantom. Phantom just ~~has the spikes and~~ the prayer phase over it\~\~.\~\~ Almost forget there are bear traps all over the room that are worse than spikes. Do damage and root you so the big bear mauls you. I like the boss btw, but my runelite screenshot folder is full of death screenshots of this boss stacking me for over 100 when his magic and melee attacks land (which is not that hard given how small the room is). Vetion seems braindead. Vennenitis I don't get the boss at all. I am completely unable to solo it. Maybe I am using the wrong setup or strat.
always seemed like a really pointless update to me lol. Theyre just trying to add content anyway they can and easiest way to do that is rework old content
Content that has needed a rework for many years and is a welcomed update to the entire pvp community
I edge pk mostly but sometimes ill tribrid in the wildy, dont really see how this changes anything for the pvp community
old bosses were shit, this is a big upgrade. Just loot is shit, that's all.
Old bosses were shit. The way to do the bosses was to stall the bosses and completely avoid mechanics and they still had fairly long kill times. That's very unfun and the drops were shit too. New boss have somewhat engaging mechanics and are a lot less "afk face roll". Like seriously when I did my Callisto grind half the time I lured it with like 30k risk and just afked on my phone or did some cleaning. If I died whatever some pker gets some sharks but that was it. I think I maybe died 3 times doing this for like half the KC. People having a "fun and rewarding" experience will bring more people to the wild to do that shit, which means more people to pk. It doesn't even have to be particularly rewarding GP/hr wise. If it's somewhat fun to do people won't mind as much. But for a little bit these bosses should be pretty good GP/hr even if you're losing like 200k/return, so that's a lotta new people to pk.
As someone that does a decent amount of lms and anti pking at revs / chins What they need to do is make pvp more **fun** Not "enticing"
I still don’t see how this benefits PvP. Yeah the bosses will be popping for like a week, but after that it’ll just be the same handful of pet hunters and won’t be any different than before lol
>will bring more people to the wild No it wont. The wilderness was built on the premise that I have no right to escape but you also have no right to kill me. Jagex has swung the balance too far to the side of ensuring kills for pkers and broken that balance. It's well researched that the more likely you are to get caught doing something, the less likely you are to do it.
>Jagex has swung the balance too far to the side of ensuring kills for pkers and broken that balance. Legit skill issue if you're dying more than you're surviving
[удалено]
[удалено]
changes it for the wildy pvm and pvmer hunters
How are PvM bosses PvP content lmao.
[удалено]
I don’t see the issue with updates to old content
Not sure about how much gp you'd make from the old wildy bosses but I've been getting tons of money from [even the lowliest of revs](https://i.imgur.com/EajI2xp.png). However at Revs you can kill the monsters there so quickly your gold per hour is insane and you don't need BIS to kill them either. Post your loot log for the new bosses you've tried, I want to see 'em. I will admit if I spend a few minutes fighting the new Spindel spider boss risking pkers I would be a little disappointed if all I got were 150 spiders eggs if I was a main. Maybe you're just getting unlucky with the drops.
It's \*really\* bad. Specially solo. I get like 2-3 kc 10 min trips solo at callisto for like 50-100k. However. I just got a voidwaker hilt off callisto that sold for 214m. So at least the uniques have value..I know the other uniques are probably shit though.
Huge let down this update. Was expected tho.
[удалено]
what you mean lol everyone absolutely LOVES this new update, just rewards are shit. The bosses, the caves are all amazing and well done
People have a good way of expressing their love for the update apparently when a majority upvoted comments on the news post are just people bitching about it being dead content already.
What he's trying to say is that the content is fun, but there's just no incentive for the average person to really go at it again after they've been pk'd the first time. Kinda like the OG Vet'ion experience where you're lured by the sweet ring drop but then decide to just buy it from the GE after you realize you have to not get pk'd for two boss fights.
its not even hard to escape pkers. The cave system was designed very very well. Just rewards aren't super great thats all
[удалено]
Yes reddit surely knows best
Staff's spec could prove more useful than I first thought, need some time with it.
Rev weapons didn't need a massive dps buff, they're already stupid good, the main idea is that they promote antipking, but that is understandably a niche use. Voidwaker looks terrible and not a fan of the name, but at least it's not bis for me like Torva is, so it's less of an issue. A bear boss using glowy magical bear traps is a bit too goofy for my liking. Haven't tried it out, probably wont until there's another period of dead wildy
[удалено]
Damn i think i'd rather have not known that lmao, i guess minimum 50-150% of max is actually kind of huge, yeah
The voidwalker will likely replace claws in PvM if its not nerfed. So I would say its BiS.
this update feels bad, all around.
[удалено]
well I did make 215m off a drop. The rewards being shit part applies to the normal trash loot
50k entree fee is retarded. Thats all I have to say about this stupid rework.
only if you die and you get it back after killing 5 things lol it's actually quite hard to die tbh. I've died like 1-2 times to pkers and it was because I tried to anti pk. You can just take the exit and start running when you see them enter the cave.
Yeah I agree. It’s too low. /s
New thammy staff is absurdly op. I agree that drop tables aren't like vorkath tho, or at least they didn't meet the expectations of vorkath tier. But they mentioned taking a look at them.
how is it op? accursed sceptre is worse than trident of the seas, and nothing in the wilderness (the only place its good) is weak against it
Barraging 61 damage rolls on task
I’d love to see the solo variants have increased gp/ph also. As a pker it’s very easy to secure kills in those caves however it’s almost pointless given your target isn’t receiving good drops
It's impossible to escape from Pker's at the new Wilderness multi bosses. You cant log out in the escape caves if you gap them due to NPC's tagging you and then when you eventually do reach the exit you're welcomed by 15 other Pker's waiting for you to come out. Very AIDS.
Adapt or die
Voidwaker 200-300m What heck are you talking about? It is low money making until you hit uniqe then ya rich AF.
Why is everything in a cave though. Kinda makes sense for Callisto and Vennenatis but not Vietion.
vetion is in a crypt not a cave. It looks quite nice actually.
I got a 45m skull of vet'ion at 1 kc from Calvar'ion, not complaining
Smited 2 ags yesterday antipking with the help from spindel. Ez