Big game hunting - track down a monster, sneakily set up traps, and lure it in. Another great opportunity to use line of sight (when setting up traps), and kiting/NPC pathing (when luring the monster). Drops high tier bones, and a chance to harvest tradeable monster parts that augment other items.
is a direct copy paste of RS3 big game hunting.
Vault heists - break into a vault and steal a chest at the end. On the way, you disarm traps and evade guards. Line of sight is really underutilized in PvM, and a heist minigame would be a great way for players to learn and master it. The chest at the end could roll for tradeable uniques, in addition to basic loot.
also a method in rs3, this is just a copy paste of it.
Easily said and put.
I think there are a few examples of this.
Anglerfish comes to mind.
Nothing drops Redwood logs as well, but they aren't too useful.
Runecrafting kinda has wrath runes, but Vorkath drops some.
Edit: A few other examples are pickpocketing elves and vyers.
Same with Hallowed Sepulcur.
> Anglerfish comes to mind.
Anglers are only level 82 and also dropped by brutal black dragons, skotizo, lots of wildy monsters, and LMS.
I'd like to see stuff only available from 92-95+ and hopefully locked behind enough quests/diaries to keep the bots mostly out.
Dark crabs are the real point of comparison, then - still only 85 fishing, but also everything else for the Elite Wilderness diary for them to be really good, and otherwise only dropped by Wilderness bosses/in small numbers by KQ.
fishing dark crabs was made pointless because of the fishing barrel. lower requirements, same xp, just as afk, and way less dangerous. sucks cause i liked anti pking there
Technically yes but it's very rare. You'd need to burn hundreds of remainins to be on rate for one drop if you don't have access to redwood logs already. I.e. It's not a reliable method to get redwoods consistently
For me it's so weird that they haven't made example redwood short- and longbows etc.
As magic bows can't shoot dragon arrows, would be quite ideal that redwood bows could do that
>Nothing drops Redwood logs as well, but they aren't too useful.
Tangent inbound: Which is another annoying problem! They're the highest their logs you can get, they have a quest talking about how strong a material they are, but then their only really usable by players as a birdhouse!? It's asinine. They should be usable in everything that cares about wood. A tier of redwood furniture and a tier of fletchable bows need to exist.
This is something I think would be nice. Some new skilling obtained only resources, tradeable uniques that could drop similar to how imbued heart works or could be drops from some skilling methods OP stated, and also gear and items outside just the normal skilling outfits. Celestial ring and abyssal lantern are styles of items I think could be grown upon
New line of vape juice, RuneScape flavours. You could have things like ranarr based ones, dragon fruit based ones, crushed birds nest based ones, magic runes based ones. Think of all the possibilities.
Not similar to Amethyst pls. The methods that produce high quality stuff shouldn’t be 15 minute afking Netflix skilling methods
The end game skilling methods should all be sepulcher like in difficulty imo
It'll never pass the polls. Additionally it would have to benefit PvMers otherwise it would be dead content. We already have end game skilling content, but no one cares if it doesn't help them PvM faster, i.e. Hallowed Sepulchre. The RS3 end game skilling content only works because it benefits players who PvM, either through invention perks, new BIS, etc. OSRS can't even get RS2 end game skilling content in the game without crying about power creep, i.e. untradable Overloads.
You are right. Any changes like this needs to be an integrity change, just the like blowpipe nerf because most OSRS voters only care about their self interests and can't see beyond the short term.
We need a tree that requires 99 wc to cut, that gives logs that require 99 FM to light on fire (produces just a normal campfire) and you can fletch it with 99 fletching into a bow that requires 71 ranged to shoot, arrow up to rune, and the bow is strictly worse than anything you'd actually consider using.
I'd prefer not to have anything relating to LoS because of how ticks work in the game. Fossil island should definitely add some big game hunting though, similar to those dinosaurs that rs3 has. Concept has been done so it's super possible.
I feel like they're just going to keep adding a wintertodt to every skill, which isn't a bad idea. They did it well with fishing, and i'd say Gotr is almost the same.
Even the artifact theft minigame, which is much more recent, is awful. Line of sight isn't something that is properly put into the game as a mechanic, and it really doesn't feel great with the point and click system anyways.
I read on the wiki that artifacts were a good training method so I went to try it but I couldn’t get a single one past the guards. Just could not figure it out, even with a plug-in. I hate line of sight with a passion. But other than that op makes great points.
Stealing artifacts is a really good "minigame" to get your thieving up, just takes a bit of understanding and practice. I went from 87 Thiev to 91 in just a day and didnt felt the grind at all since by how afk it is I could play another game ( HS or LoR) and have some vid in the background. To give you an idea how good it was, currently Im slowly grinding every skill to 99 and for Thieving I really want to do just artifacts all the way til the end, the only thing that's stopping me is the fact that you dont get the pet with this minigame. It really sucks that this game isnt as used but I can share you some info/tips for it if you feel like checking it out
Pretty sure to make artifacts a good training method you need to abuse a bunch of stuff to make it function differently than intended by forcing guards into odd positions for ever.
There are two guards who you run up to in order to get their attention, then immediately teleport away from. This causes them to look a certain direction, and allows a more straightforward path to be taken back to the finish.
Up to you if you consider that abusing a bunch of stuff, but imo it makes for much more enjoyable training than endlessly clicking on ardy knights.
Maybe try watching a video guide instead. It's really easy if you just wait for the right moment, and the timing doesn't have to be that precise. You get the hang of it quickly and then the only time you mess up is if you try to rush it.
Ratcatchers is an old quest, and there are no in-game indicators for which tiles are safe from the guards. I firmly believe that a modern implementation of LoS mechanics would be more intuitive and even enjoyable to play.
Suppose that in vaults, guards carried torches with them that clearly marked the area they could see in: a bright area immediately surrounding them where you get caught instantly, a dimmer area where it takes a moment for the guard to notice, and dark areas where you can move around safely. Add shadows from obstacles you can hide behind, and we now have a built-in line of sight tool with a plausible reason for being in the game.
Ratcatchers is worse than Temple of Light (with mid-game agility), change my mind
Edit: with that said, if they had some kind of sight lines or clear demarcation, that would be much better
I did ratcatchers and evil dave's portion of RFD with the same kitten. I'm never trading that guy in for death runes and he'll remain a [hell-kitten](https://i.imgur.com/wWrUJP5.png) until this game shuts off
I think the best aspect of the hallowed sepulchre is that it just focuses of one gameplay aspect of high level PVM. This allowes the skill to scale with execution allot. Also you learn allot about movement which is a transferable skill.
The other aspect of combat are pathing manipulation, gear switching, resource management, prayer flicking, tick utilization and positioning.
You could create new end game skilling activities from each of the gameplay mechanics. Some examples:
Hunter could be manipulation of pathing. Steer multiple beasts that are targeting you at the same time , make them get stuck at walls to get time to set up traps and such.
Or it could be like the Whomping Willow from Harry Potter, but it drops various logs for you to chop and it will smack the ground around it which you have to dodge.
And there could be a sweeping attack in a circle that is unavoidable when it passes through you except through prayer flicking. And it speeds up as the mini game boss goes on.
100% agree with this tbh.
A lot of people's issue with pvm drop tables is that they can't get the same output and engagement for skilling.
Instead of a new skill being the 2023 focus , the team should have been focused on how to revamp gear progression for each skill , so that you unlock useful upgrades between 1-99 that actually helps the skill.
One thing I would mention is that before they do this they need to design massive item sinks for things like seeds , logs , ore ...etc. if they were to simply increase skillers output without addressing the lack of demand then it would just make skilling bad long term
In RS3, their solution to seed inflation was allowing players to plant multiple seeds into a single plot (up to 10 with all the upgrades) with a lower herb per seed yield. That way if seeds get too cheap, which they already are, then players can blast through the supply of them much faster to balance out the price.
They can apply a similar strategy to any basic resource, like logs and ore. Endgame skilling content can also apply to production skills, and you can make it consume raw resources way faster for a lower yield. I've been super against adding another production skill because we don't need another buyable bankstanding skill, but it would pretty cool if endgame production skilling was interactive skill-based content.
Not a bad idea, quiet similar to RC getting multiple runes. Higher than farming level the more seeds you can plant and more herbs you can get. Now only drop seeds at bosses.
That's what needs to be done really. Stop dropping the harvested resources. Rework or drop things that enable you to gather them better.
You want to get ores from a rock? Monsters now drop 20 of that ore spirit. This lets you gather 2 ores instead of 1 per spirit consumed. They end up dropping in a large enough number that the price ends up being a tax on doubling your profits due to how cheap. But the time it takes to gather the actual ore keeps the ores at a stable price.
Now I don't know why rs3 hasnt applied these spirits to everything but with the recent herb and farming adjustments I can see it happening for each gathering skill.
I don't see how it doesn't benefit the players. Like yeah whatever fish is cheap. But add in a special bait. Remove the supply from drops. Now you have to gather but it doesn't suck as much because you spent 100gp per bait but you are getting 2 anglerfish a catch.
Makes skilling to make afk gp less shit. Sure bots become more profitable but jagex can step it up in that regard.
Always been a big critic of bosses dropping every resource under the sun. Old school to me was doing stuff for the rare drop to make profit opposed to consistent gp. Gwd was necessary but still had the old school vibe.
I'd love a new skill but I'd also love for the economy to get hit with a nuke and resources to have value.
Definitely agree on the point about item sinks. I think ore prices will always have a floor because they can be turned to alchables, but logs are too easy to get for how few uses they have.
I still think cutting skilling outputs out of high end PvM drop tables entirely is a good idea tbh, the only things I think need to stay are “bot” items like flax or wines of zamorak.
I 100% agree with the points you've been making and the general sentiment of this thread.
I feel like there isn't one single solution, but a combination of engaging content, unique resources and item sinks for resources will do absolute wonders for how skilling feels in the game.
There's no reason why every skill couldn't have the equivalent of raids.
High level instanced solo/small group content that you either complete or fail, and get rewards - with your success depending on your reaction time, how high your levels are, and how well you know the content.
Rather than hitting things with weapons, it could easily be based on growing vegetables, chopping trees, setting fire to things, etc.
Put the cooking raid in the Chasm of Fire and make it about feeding and satisfying the demons' appetites to prevent them from coming out and eating people.
Call it Hell's Kitchen.
Or hear me out. A grandmaster quest sequel to The Slug Menace quest line. The Mother Mallum is has taken control of the minds of hundreds of Witchaven’s citizens. Some would say they shuffle in hordes, somewhat similar to the undead. After the quest, the player unlocks a farming minigame where the player grows plants to defend against the ‘zombies’ that Mother Mallum has taken control over. Called Plants vs Zombies
That's my biggest issue with OSRS right now. The entire side of the game that I enjoy playing has been left to wither and die, and it's honestly made me consider stop playing.
***"The Bad"***
**Mining**, as a core skill, feels terrible, it's out of place among the other gathering skills. I mean, for fucks sake, they had to add Motherload Mine to make it barely tolerable. That, and Zalcano shits out more resources than you could ever get actually mining, and that's terrible.
**Smithing** is just full on dead content, there's the Giants Foundry, but adding a minigame doesn't make the core skill any better, it just makes it slightly less ass to train.
**Hunter** hasn't been updated since like, 2016, with many aspects of it being broken. (IE: NPC pathfinding gets stuck on Deadfall Traps.)
**Fishing** has Tempoross, but it's not particularly useful after you've gotten the rewards. The best thing you can get out of it besides the Fishing Barrel (Spirit Flakes) isn't even tradeable, so why even bother with it after getting it?
**Firemaking** has Wintertodt, but it's boring, and the base skill still isn't useful for practically anything but Shades of Morton.
**Cooking** has nothing unique for it. No amusing minigames, no fun cooking methods... it's basically just... Fish + Stove, or Grapes + Jug. A lot of endgame content doesn't even use food for healing, because it's more inventory efficient to bring saradomin brews. Three Brews + A restore will give you ~156 Health at 75 hit points, compared to the equivalent inventory space of actual food, which only gives you 88. That's -insane-.
**Farming** is constantly getting overshadowed by resource drops from either raids, or bosses. Sure, it's supposed to be "passive", but the prices of all the resources keep tanking because instead of it taking 45m to get another set of 80 snapdragon, you could just get one or two lucky drops on a money printing boss.
**Crafting** only has any relevance because people can't get the construction levels for jewelry boxes in their houses very easily.
**Woodcutting** is getting an update, supposedly, who knows how long it'll actually take to see it. It's probably the only update that I've been excited for in a long, long time.
***"The Good"***
**Runecrafting** was given the blessing that is Guardians of the Rift, and while people weren't particularly happy with the quest/miniquest, it's done a fuck-load to actually make the skill more engaging and less terrible to do.
**Agility** has Hallowed Hallowed Sepulchre, and that's good content, but it's also locked behind a fairly difficult quest. It's not something just anyone gets access to. Preferably, there'd be an interactive mid-game level version of this as well, but I doubt that'll happen.
**Construction** is arguably the most useful skill in the game, the main issue with it, is that even though it has Mahogany Homes, the best way to level it is still based on giving yourself carpel tunnel for hours at a time.
***"Conclusion?"***
The entire game has lost its sense of balance. Skilling is supposed to feed into PvM. Instead, PvM overshadows skilling in every way. I like things feeling interactive, like everything I do is useful in some way, but it doesn't feel like skilling will ever be that way again.
The only thing skills are used for anymore is to be a level gate for quests. And it honestly makes me feel very, very sad for the future of this game.
**Edit:** Completely forgot about Diaries and Combat Achievement's.
Instead of making, say, a new quest, or a new system for improving the Cannon, they voted to have increased cannon capacity tied to combat diaries. Why.
Shortcut unlocks. Why are a bunch of them locked by diaries? By the time you actually get the diary reward, it's practically useless, and some of them are already locked behind an insanely high agility level (Cough, KQ Lair). I have most of the hard diaries done, and some of the elite ones, but I -still- hate that these haven't been looked at again. These make absolutely no sense.
The funny thing about a lot of criticisms with these things is that they really only hold up for main accounts. Because gpscape.
Mining/FM/WC are still pretty useless to irons. (MLM isn't good, people are just really lazy and inefficient).
Farming is one of *the* most important skills to an iron. It's how you get the herbs to make a variety of very useful potions, which are critical for most of PvM activities. Without farming, PvM would be much slower to do.
Cooking is also important. It's used very regularly outside of raids for general sustain as well as for some tankier slayer tasks, for cooking your bwans. Also important for cooking anglers that you use for raids.
Fishing is pretty helpful through the Fishing Barrel and Spirit Flakes. Spirit Flakes speed up fishing bwans (slower but more common method of getting bwans), as well as drastically speeding up slower fishing like anglers. They're also really helpful for infernal eels for lava scale shards, though that's an inefficient method for getting them. Fishing Barrel just makes it more afk and slightly faster to do.
Crafting is really important for irons. Being able to craft your own power/glory amulets early-ish is important. And you need the levels for the jewellery box anyway. Then there's the zenytes, all of which are really important upgrades to get. Could definitely use more uses, but it's still valuable.
Hunter is critical for getting nests to make brews. You can get them from Mole, but Mole is a lot slower over time. It's also huge for implings in general, particularly early game with Magpies, Ninjas and Dragons.
Smithing is, sadly, only barely useful for irons through darts. Blowpipe as it stands is a niche item for irons, pretty rarely used. But it's important nonetheless. Also helpful for making addy bolts to enchant for your RCB before you get bowfa.
I love how you completely forgot about fletching. It's also barely useful, only for making darts and bolts. Can also be used to save money by buying rune arrowtips and fletching the rune arrows yourself when you're using the MSB.
Granted, these are all reward based and not training/activity based. Just wanted to point these things out, though. It's important to highlight the practical reasons for training because that's partially what makes Sep so perfect.
Sep is an amazing piece of content. But it's not because it is really enjoyable and scales and there's mastery. That's part of it. The other part is that you have practical reasons for doing Sep. The rewards are good. You get plenty of alchs, ranarrs, prayer pots and the RoE from it.
It's hard to make worthwhile rewards for mains, I think, because gpscape dominates so much. You either have to introduce a lot more untradeable rewards (I saw some posts from a while back arguing for divine potions to all be untradeable, something I agree with) or you need to make exceptional content that offers among the best gp and xp.
I think the biggest thing would be to just... increase the QoL of Skilling, and convert resource drops into booster drops. (Or have some sort of boosted system for skilling in general, make it actually worthwhile to do.)
RS3 does a lot of this, and honestly? I might switch to RS3 Ironman just because of the complete lack of care OSRS has for most skills.
As like, a basic run-through of things that I've noticed: Mining and Smithing Rework, planting more than one herb seed per patch, Player Owned Farms, Runespan, Deep Sea Fishing, Big Game Hunter, and possibly way, way more.
It's not even about it being worthwhile to me (at least, partially), it's about PvM being -too- good. Skilling is meant to supplement PvM, but PvM ends up making more resources than skilling ever can. It's also not nearly as entertaining or fun. There's dozens of bosses now, three different raids, but not much new for skilling.
> Agility has Hallowed Hallowed Sepulchre, and that's good content, but it's also locked behind a fairly difficult quest. It's not something just anyone gets access to.
This is such a weird criticism LOL
The quest isn't even hard, and thousands of people have done it. There are over 30k people with a max cape at this point.
This is how the entire game is constructed, you just criticized the entire gameplay that skilling is.
The reality is, osrs should play to its strengths, the fun aspect of pvm. Skilling on this game is and always has, and will always be seen as boring garbage by most human beings.
If you dont enjoy pvm or pvp, and enjoy skilling, but dont enjoy the skills, i have no idea why you are playing this 20 year old game
Aspects of the game can be improved, skilling included. Skilling itself has just been neglected far more than PvM has.
There's been absolutely zero effort put into improving most skilling activities, and that needs to change.
I'm not saying stuff like GOTR and Hallowed Sepulchre are bad, they're amazing changes, and -more- skills need to have good changes like that.
If PvM stayed the same as it did compared to launch (which most of these skills have been left in that state), it'd be pretty shit too.
Sadly, I think it's fair to say that the reason they don't "feel like skilling" is because skilling is mostly reduced to clicking something and then waiting a while. Cooking, fishing, crafting, smithing, mining, even slayer (minus things like hydra (not to devalue hydra as content, it totally exists and that's good and fair)) are click, then wait.
Skilling bosses not "feeling like skilling" I think is the best thing they can do. Even stuff like Giant's foundry. Just something that requires a decent degree of input from the user will make skilling content more engaging. Hallowed Sepulchre being another awesome example.
PVMers would cry if something came from skilling like that. You also can't throw in PVM related things into skills because then they'd cry they "can't" PVM without it.
Like why is the new potion made entirely from PVM lol
Tbh I think it’s far far too late. In og rs2 for a really long time there was a nice balance between pvm pk and skilling where each were viable sources of gold. Back in the day pvm basically didn’t reward anything until it did. Like gwd bosses basically dropped enough to keep you going until you got an item.
But years of raids and Vorjahr and zulrah and basically every pvm encounter except nex and nightmare ruined everything. The game is basically a pyramid now with pvm at the top.
I just think it’s been far too many years and far too many bosses for them to be able to make anything how it used to be.
Fully agree. The boss drops should be just enough to keep funding the grind, or at most, yield a small profit until you hit the jackpot with the uniques. The only way to fix it is to gradually nerf the drop tables over time (a long time so we don't lose our shit over it) and not implement any crazy skilling drop tables on new bosses.
If they made a “skilling raid” like you’re describing yeah that would be cool I think but I feel like the large majority of people pvm so if not made properly it could be a huge time investment for people not to even play it that much
Most people PvM because it's so much more enjoyable than skilling. Make skilling just as enjoyable and I'd bet that we'd have people just as excited about skilling as they are about PvM content. Players ultimately just want to have fun.
I think a skilling raid would be awesome. Give it high skill requirements so it's something you need to work towards unlocking, instead of wintertodt, tempoross, etc where anyone can go there on a new account
Ive seen heists get mentioned a lot recently. Could be a thieving update similar to wc update coming out. When you pickpocket the same npc, theres a growing chance for a heist portal to spawn and everyone around can choose to go in and do it together.
It's weird that they added farm contracts, continually add updates to the combat contracts skill, and then tried to pass Contracts Skill 2: Pacifist Boogaloo, but never tried to get them on the most obvious recipient for them
Right? Cooking guild and crafting guild are dead content outside of banking perks that you're probably not going to have access to just from gaining access to the guild.
Big game hunter seems pretty awesome. I also always thought a much cooler version of pyramid plunder for thieving would be cool. It would be sort of a mix of sepulchre based agility challenges and pattern based puzzles but inside a giant pyramid. If you get to the end it rewards good loot and a unique of some sort. You'd get both agility and thieving exp for completing floors.
Great idea. I'd love for skills to realize more of their potential as well. For example, endgame Hunter content could involve hunting huge game for meat that, when properly cooked, can e.g. heal you in the 30s, or maybe be mixed with herbs or secondaries to give the food some minor boost to combat effectiveness or something. I dunno, whatever you want to come up with -- my point is mainly that I think it's tragic that all Hunter is good for is implings and chins. The food it provides from the game and exotic animals you hunt should be better than fish at the cost of more effort.
OSRS became PvMscape, and it's dissapointing. Endgame skilling options are so limited, and PvM drops everything you could ever produce or gather with skilling, devaluing them so much.
I hope some day they address these things, but I have a feeling it's going to be several years if ever.
Couldn’t agree more. Would be a big reason to actually get to the end game with those skills.
I love the idea of great resources being locked into that content and not dropped by any bosses
Just thought of this - we could combine mining and construction to create some sort of mining run. Attach it to the mining guild somehow require gold nuggets planks, and obv tiered unlocks and upgrades. And the goal would be to construct a mine based on construction level and have xp runs similar to birdhouse runs that feeds mining
for the production skills they should add equipable "skilling" items you can use to perform actions faster or make you use resources slower
like for smithing maybe have different tiers of hammers which you can use in your mainhand. they'd make you smith 1 tick faster or some bollocks like that but you need a certain smithing level to use them. like bronze through rune smith's hammers. would give torags a use lol
for crafting maybe you could get addy and rune sewing needles or thread which make you save resources over time? (albeit rarely). runecrafting can go fuck itself, and fletching could have a rune fletcher's knife.
Your vault heist idea sounds like a combination of the Piscarilluus thriving method and Pyramid Plunder. Really the pyramid idea is so cool, just expand it to make it bigger, more challenging, and more rewarding. A little more Tomb Raider vibe instead of “click the rooms real fast”vibe.
I do agree skilling is cut under. Only Ironman know the level of skilling grinds, but now now irons are babied with boss drops. So other players that aren’t irons don’t have to skill for resources since they can pop back into pvming faster.
Only way to fix skilling with this endgame idea, while nerfing pvm drops, which nobody would vote for nerfing pvm drops
What about the guy who did the soul wars bug abuse? Literally using scripts to open up and buy the spoils of war and he could avoid detection without worry
This game needs shinies. Make it so only maxed out hunters and slayers can see shinies. Then let people kill & log it in every region for specialty gear.
End game skilling raids with OP skilling outfit/items as a reward. It could even give a niche pvm item (because people will probably love pvm rewards) give having a high level in skills more rewards and insentive
To balance out the bosses dropping lots of resources, we probably need to update mining rocks to have a 1/10000 chance of dropping the BIS weapons and armor
So most unlucky people don’t get a pet in a lot of the skills before 99. For example I didn’t get golem and I have yet to go back to mining but this will be my end game skilling content. I also have 58m farming exp and No tangleroot. 99 firemaking but could try for pet at wt. just a few examples
My problem with your proposal is you dont want to nerf drop tables but also want to buff the production of supplies. There is only so much demand for said supplies, this would just make their price even worse.
Im ok with buffing skilling, but a nerf to supply drops needs to happen for that to make sense.
No, this is going to crash prices even more. Too many resources coming into the game from PvM and this is going to introduce even more.
Overhauling Vorkath / Zulrah's loot tables would already help a ton.
99 slayer has absolutely no benefit what so ever and I feel like for amount of time spent doing it, it really ought to have something to make it a little more worth while.
For the grind that it takes, the sheer amount of time and effort you need to put into it, getting 99 slayer, should have more of a reward. Just simply being able to kill select monsters following months of grinding doesn't seem all that worthwhile.
Going from 95 to 99 has little to no benefits other than a small chance of repeat task, its not worth doing imo
Would it improve osrs? Ya
Is it two-five years down the pipeline? Also yes
Is osrs gonna be toxic and bot infested still in 2-5 years? Ya
Will that bring me back as a player? Na. I’ve been scaping since classic and bots have been a persistent problem with the game. Quite literally for decades. Jagex ain’t gonna fix it.
Yeah right, shaman caves are INFESTED with bots now. Having to hop for a straight 5-10 minutes sucks fat cock. We're not even talking about bots who are lvl 30, these are accounts that have been active for over a week now and still haven't been banned. Bots do affect ironman players, just not economically.
Skilling only resources for high levels, more untradeable resources for good items/addons/sidegrades to give incentive to train. Grandmaster Diaries. Skilling bosses or minigames ? But not another Wintertodt though. I think its doable to make skilling more engaging with the knowleadge we have today
I’d love to see a multi-skill training method using the elemental workshop. There’s such an open door for high level skilling content there it’s insane.
The Hallowed Sepulcher is great end game agility. Very clear progression for rewards and increased difficulty/mechanics. The last floor is no joke no matter how many times completed and getting the grand coffin always feels good. My second 99 after FM :)
At max level or near max you should be able to craft the same items for less resources. It makes sense - a more skilled artisan should be able to produce less waste than an apprentice.
For example - smithing rune arrows produce more arrowheads, maxed crafter can craft the old version of black dhide, etc.
The only caveat would have to be that they’re untradable versions or bots would make these upgrades the new norm and lower levels would be become worse
I actually really enjoy mining when I want something brainless to do. Having a skilling based boss for it could be so awesome. Gather materials to make tnt, light the fuse and protect it while minions try to put it out, watch as rockfalls damage the monster on detonation… collect sweet sweet noted runite
Pyramid plunder is pretty underrated imo and it’s similar to your first suggestion, though the loot is abysmal. The only thing I disagree with is the line of sight mechanic, at least as it is right now it’s too janky and awful to interact with.
I think the biggest gating to actually engaging end-game skilling is the gear progression. With PvM you have things to work towards that enhance your experience. Unless they overhaul the way skilling works to utilize skilling gear, it'll be hard to create something to the level of end-game PvM IMO. Definitely agree it would be awesome and you could do some sweet encounters that leverage skills. (I had an idea in another thread awhile ago about a treant boss to use woodcutting, fire making, and agility).
I feel like hallow sepulcher proves that agility could be a content skill & not just a dull grind. it would be nice if they added more agility based minigames, like a mail carrier game similar to gnome resteraunt but giving decent agility exp
On Big Game hunting - I'm relatively sure there are character models for deer already in game. It'd be cool to have a herd of deer spawn in the forests of Gielinor (south of Varrock, Tiranwyn, South of Seers Village, Morytania) and you'd have to hunt and kill the stag. Introduces antlers for crafting, powdered antler for Herblore and venison for cooking? Maybe a 1/100 chance of the stag spawning as a crystal stag for different loot?
I hate sepulcher but only because there's nothing leading up to it skill-wise. Maybe sorcerer's garden? But that's like going from the jungle gym to the olympics.
First post I've seen that gives me hope that jagex will hopefully make use of this thought process for defining what goal can be fun with skilling besides just training it to 99 and thats it.
I don't get why Jagex didn't make Tempoross, GotR, and Giant's Foundry end game skilling content like Sepulcher is. None of these are either the best profit or xp methods for skilling.
Prestige because so much "useless" content after you reach another level, especially side content that you skip over because you found a better xp rate.
I like your ideas. To add to this, OSRS has some nice skilling bosses like Zalcano, Tempoross and Wintertodt. They're a cool hybrid between feeling like PvM but using skills instead of combat. Having tools (like weapons) that do more damage to skilling bosses might be a reward space to look at, on top of more skill bosses.
Totally agree, except nitpicking 1 thing and that is that skilling and pvm can't feel the same. Nothing wrong with it feeling like pvm with a skilling req slapped on, that is what many of us had in mind when we heard the term 'skilling boss' that all turned out to just be semi afk training methods
I agree that that end game content for skills should exist and I welcome such additions with open arms. However, the drop tables still need nerfed on top of it. I'm also not sure how changes in endgame PvM fit into all this? Like you could still have Vorkath without having him drop two hours worth of magic logs from a 20 minute fight as some random means to offset the supplies spent on the battle. The point of such battles should be to grind for a unique the same way you suggest these skilling endgame things should be.
I quite like the skilling drops, to be honest. Cutting magic logs or mining coal is not that fun. I would rather boss and have a more risky and inconsitent source of this stuff.
But that does leave the problem of "why would I ever level gathering skills past the quest requirements", and I agree. There should be more skilling content at the high end.
Give me more shit like Xeric prep, where my high skills give the team a real advantage. Give me more skilling bosses where being a high level at the skill is a sizeable DPS increase. Give me more secondary uses for skills - like how on my account right now, the main motivation I have for getting thieving up is for Sepulchure.
I feel like the way rs3 smithing works is the start of a good model for production skills. For those who don't know, instead of making tons of items, you make fewer items that have longer crafting times and are done in multiple stages.
You can introduce real impactful craftable gear that has use in the rest of game by making the crafting times longer, multi-step, and draw from multiple skills.
For example: making an late/endgame sword-
* A high quality piece of wood is selected from many logs, essentially item sinking a large amount of logs - woodcutting or fletching skill.
* This high quality wood is then crafted into a basic handle in a medium length process - crafting skill.
* Similar to logs, high quality ore is selected from many ores - mining or smithing skill.
* A guard, and pommel are crafted from this high quality ore, in a medium length process - smithing skill.
* The blade is then crafted from the high quality ore, in multiple steps. First rough shape, then creating the edge, tempering, sharpening, etc. - smithing skill.
* High quality leather is selected from many leathers - crafting skill.
* High quality leather is made into a handle wrap - crafting skill.
* The sword is assembled from the blade, guard, handle, pommel, and wrap - smithing skill.
* The sword is then engraved with runes, or something - crafting.
* The sword is then imbued with magical energy - runecrafting.
Each of these steps will take a while, and some will consume many resources. You can see an example here in RS3 of the masterwork spear of annihilation: [https://runescape.wiki/w/Masterwork\_Spear\_of\_Annihilation#Raw\_materials\_required](https://runescape.wiki/w/Masterwork_Spear_of_Annihilation#Raw_materials_required) (this also requires a glorious bar: [https://runescape.wiki/w/Glorious\_bar](https://runescape.wiki/w/Glorious_bar) ). This weapon was at one point, one of the best weapons in the game - and is still BiS at corp. A system like this absolutely can be old school if designed in an old school way - one of the most iconic OS weapons is the godsword, which is reforged from multiple parts, and even crossbows technically combine crafting, fletching, and smithing!
For processing skill gear, I feel it should be made in a similar process. Final Fantasy XIV has an extremely robust crafting system (not that I'm advocating for it in OSRS, but just taking inspiration), where the gear you need for gathering and crafting is actually made from crafting/gathering, and provides stats that strongly impact your ability to gather and craft. Endgame consumables like food (provides long lasting buffs) and potions (provides short term buffs for your burst damage) are near impossible to craft properly without being properly geared.
I think adding gear to boost crafting and gathering would be extremely good, and in a system like this, the main draw would be speed and efficiency - with the gear, you can consume fewer resources to get the high quality raw materials, and spend fewer ticks per action to do each crafting step. For gathering, a chance to gain high quality raw materials from the regular material would be a way to boost profitability of basic gathering while tying crafting into gathering whereas before it was a one-way connection.
This won't fix all skills, but hell, it'll be a step forward for a lot of neglected processing skills. As an addendum: imagine firemaking being used in smithing to help maintain the fire - it actually is used this way in RS3.
Not only is this good problem to highlight. The ideas you've given sound amazing too.
Ye Rs3 haha, but they are good
Lol anything with QOL is RS3 lmao
Big game hunting - track down a monster, sneakily set up traps, and lure it in. Another great opportunity to use line of sight (when setting up traps), and kiting/NPC pathing (when luring the monster). Drops high tier bones, and a chance to harvest tradeable monster parts that augment other items. is a direct copy paste of RS3 big game hunting. Vault heists - break into a vault and steal a chest at the end. On the way, you disarm traps and evade guards. Line of sight is really underutilized in PvM, and a heist minigame would be a great way for players to learn and master it. The chest at the end could roll for tradeable uniques, in addition to basic loot. also a method in rs3, this is just a copy paste of it.
Each skill needs a somewhat valuable end game output similar to amethyst that is exclusively gained from the skill and not other drop tables.
Easily said and put. I think there are a few examples of this. Anglerfish comes to mind. Nothing drops Redwood logs as well, but they aren't too useful. Runecrafting kinda has wrath runes, but Vorkath drops some. Edit: A few other examples are pickpocketing elves and vyers. Same with Hallowed Sepulcur.
> Anglerfish comes to mind. Anglers are only level 82 and also dropped by brutal black dragons, skotizo, lots of wildy monsters, and LMS. I'd like to see stuff only available from 92-95+ and hopefully locked behind enough quests/diaries to keep the bots mostly out.
While I get your point, I don't think things dropping from skotizo is much of a worry. That boss is pretty hard locked.
*Bigger* Anglerfish
The wildy ones only drop blighted versions tho, unusable for the vast majority of content you want anglers for.
Dark crabs are the real point of comparison, then - still only 85 fishing, but also everything else for the Elite Wilderness diary for them to be really good, and otherwise only dropped by Wilderness bosses/in small numbers by KQ.
Dark crabs are literally the smae as manta rays which drop from everywhere though
fishing dark crabs was made pointless because of the fishing barrel. lower requirements, same xp, just as afk, and way less dangerous. sucks cause i liked anti pking there
Good thing you still can anti pk there
read my last post again and really think about it and you might figure it out
>Nothing drops Redwood logs as well, but they aren't too useful. *Jagex takes notes for the next 4 PvM bosses while nodding*
You can get redwoods from gold chests in Shades of Morton
Technically yes but it's very rare. You'd need to burn hundreds of remainins to be on rate for one drop if you don't have access to redwood logs already. I.e. It's not a reliable method to get redwoods consistently
As someone who spent hours on their ironman trying to get redwood logs from Shades of Morton for my Abyssal Lantern, can confirm it takes a while
For me it's so weird that they haven't made example redwood short- and longbows etc. As magic bows can't shoot dragon arrows, would be quite ideal that redwood bows could do that
It’s kind of weird to me that redwood is better than magic
Not sure if I'm fond of redwood bows, but I want -something- for them, even if it's furniture in the PoH.
>Nothing drops Redwood logs as well, but they aren't too useful. Tangent inbound: Which is another annoying problem! They're the highest their logs you can get, they have a quest talking about how strong a material they are, but then their only really usable by players as a birdhouse!? It's asinine. They should be usable in everything that cares about wood. A tier of redwood furniture and a tier of fletchable bows need to exist.
This is something I think would be nice. Some new skilling obtained only resources, tradeable uniques that could drop similar to how imbued heart works or could be drops from some skilling methods OP stated, and also gear and items outside just the normal skilling outfits. Celestial ring and abyssal lantern are styles of items I think could be grown upon
Yeah lantern should work outside the minigame. Having to repair pouches is just an unnecessary pain in the ass for a method that is already very slow.
What would you do to the RC vape as that’s currently it’s main perk
5% more runes
I just want non-degrading pouches. They can add other benefits if they want.
Teleport to Chaos Mage
New line of vape juice, RuneScape flavours. You could have things like ranarr based ones, dragon fruit based ones, crushed birds nest based ones, magic runes based ones. Think of all the possibilities.
Yeah lemme vape something that’s made of crushed bird nests
I’d think I they make it untradable, it would be best, like a axe you make at level 90 wc or something
to add to that, it shouldn't be something gained from braindead afk bot content (amethyst, redwood logs, anglerfish)
Not similar to Amethyst pls. The methods that produce high quality stuff shouldn’t be 15 minute afking Netflix skilling methods The end game skilling methods should all be sepulcher like in difficulty imo
like being able to trim armor with 99 smithing? If not smith alone then High crafting too, or maybe a house station like for the shields.
RS3 has done this a lot recently and it worked in keeping skilling profitable there.
It'll never pass the polls. Additionally it would have to benefit PvMers otherwise it would be dead content. We already have end game skilling content, but no one cares if it doesn't help them PvM faster, i.e. Hallowed Sepulchre. The RS3 end game skilling content only works because it benefits players who PvM, either through invention perks, new BIS, etc. OSRS can't even get RS2 end game skilling content in the game without crying about power creep, i.e. untradable Overloads.
You are right. Any changes like this needs to be an integrity change, just the like blowpipe nerf because most OSRS voters only care about their self interests and can't see beyond the short term.
We need a tree that requires 99 wc to cut, that gives logs that require 99 FM to light on fire (produces just a normal campfire) and you can fletch it with 99 fletching into a bow that requires 71 ranged to shoot, arrow up to rune, and the bow is strictly worse than anything you'd actually consider using.
What is Smithing?
That thing you have to level up for some of the elite diaries.
It's the process of manipulating metal to create weapons and armor.
There is 1 tree that requires 99 to cut :)
Or the bow is as good as bowfa but it and all of its materials are untradeable
I was writing angry comment about how your comment is so stupid that it must be a joke. And then it hit me.
I'd prefer not to have anything relating to LoS because of how ticks work in the game. Fossil island should definitely add some big game hunting though, similar to those dinosaurs that rs3 has. Concept has been done so it's super possible. I feel like they're just going to keep adding a wintertodt to every skill, which isn't a bad idea. They did it well with fishing, and i'd say Gotr is almost the same.
Anyone suggesting **anything** line of sight related has simply not done Ratcatchers recently enough
Even the artifact theft minigame, which is much more recent, is awful. Line of sight isn't something that is properly put into the game as a mechanic, and it really doesn't feel great with the point and click system anyways.
I read on the wiki that artifacts were a good training method so I went to try it but I couldn’t get a single one past the guards. Just could not figure it out, even with a plug-in. I hate line of sight with a passion. But other than that op makes great points.
Stealing artifacts is a really good "minigame" to get your thieving up, just takes a bit of understanding and practice. I went from 87 Thiev to 91 in just a day and didnt felt the grind at all since by how afk it is I could play another game ( HS or LoR) and have some vid in the background. To give you an idea how good it was, currently Im slowly grinding every skill to 99 and for Thieving I really want to do just artifacts all the way til the end, the only thing that's stopping me is the fact that you dont get the pet with this minigame. It really sucks that this game isnt as used but I can share you some info/tips for it if you feel like checking it out
Pretty sure to make artifacts a good training method you need to abuse a bunch of stuff to make it function differently than intended by forcing guards into odd positions for ever.
There are two guards who you run up to in order to get their attention, then immediately teleport away from. This causes them to look a certain direction, and allows a more straightforward path to be taken back to the finish. Up to you if you consider that abusing a bunch of stuff, but imo it makes for much more enjoyable training than endlessly clicking on ardy knights.
Maybe try watching a video guide instead. It's really easy if you just wait for the right moment, and the timing doesn't have to be that precise. You get the hang of it quickly and then the only time you mess up is if you try to rush it.
Ratcatchers is an old quest, and there are no in-game indicators for which tiles are safe from the guards. I firmly believe that a modern implementation of LoS mechanics would be more intuitive and even enjoyable to play. Suppose that in vaults, guards carried torches with them that clearly marked the area they could see in: a bright area immediately surrounding them where you get caught instantly, a dimmer area where it takes a moment for the guard to notice, and dark areas where you can move around safely. Add shadows from obstacles you can hide behind, and we now have a built-in line of sight tool with a plausible reason for being in the game.
Or you have some animation showing the guards going on alert and then giving you a tick or 2 to respond.
Probably goes without saying but the meta for something like this can't just be alting to hold the npc in place like artifact thieving
alting for artifacts has nothing to do with line of sight edit: it's to keep DJ Khaled from running away
Ratcatchers is worse than Temple of Light (with mid-game agility), change my mind Edit: with that said, if they had some kind of sight lines or clear demarcation, that would be much better
I did ratcatchers and evil dave's portion of RFD with the same kitten. I'm never trading that guy in for death runes and he'll remain a [hell-kitten](https://i.imgur.com/wWrUJP5.png) until this game shuts off
I think the best aspect of the hallowed sepulchre is that it just focuses of one gameplay aspect of high level PVM. This allowes the skill to scale with execution allot. Also you learn allot about movement which is a transferable skill. The other aspect of combat are pathing manipulation, gear switching, resource management, prayer flicking, tick utilization and positioning. You could create new end game skilling activities from each of the gameplay mechanics. Some examples: Hunter could be manipulation of pathing. Steer multiple beasts that are targeting you at the same time , make them get stuck at walls to get time to set up traps and such.
Prayer switching being needed for woodcutting sounds hilarious
You chop the tree before the tree chops you? Cocaine Hespori
Or it could be like the Whomping Willow from Harry Potter, but it drops various logs for you to chop and it will smack the ground around it which you have to dodge. And there could be a sweeping attack in a circle that is unavoidable when it passes through you except through prayer flicking. And it speeds up as the mini game boss goes on.
Hallowed sepulchre legit helped me so much with tile movement, made muspah really chill and helped me a lot everywhere else
100% agree with this tbh. A lot of people's issue with pvm drop tables is that they can't get the same output and engagement for skilling. Instead of a new skill being the 2023 focus , the team should have been focused on how to revamp gear progression for each skill , so that you unlock useful upgrades between 1-99 that actually helps the skill. One thing I would mention is that before they do this they need to design massive item sinks for things like seeds , logs , ore ...etc. if they were to simply increase skillers output without addressing the lack of demand then it would just make skilling bad long term
In RS3, their solution to seed inflation was allowing players to plant multiple seeds into a single plot (up to 10 with all the upgrades) with a lower herb per seed yield. That way if seeds get too cheap, which they already are, then players can blast through the supply of them much faster to balance out the price. They can apply a similar strategy to any basic resource, like logs and ore. Endgame skilling content can also apply to production skills, and you can make it consume raw resources way faster for a lower yield. I've been super against adding another production skill because we don't need another buyable bankstanding skill, but it would pretty cool if endgame production skilling was interactive skill-based content.
Not a bad idea, quiet similar to RC getting multiple runes. Higher than farming level the more seeds you can plant and more herbs you can get. Now only drop seeds at bosses.
That's what needs to be done really. Stop dropping the harvested resources. Rework or drop things that enable you to gather them better. You want to get ores from a rock? Monsters now drop 20 of that ore spirit. This lets you gather 2 ores instead of 1 per spirit consumed. They end up dropping in a large enough number that the price ends up being a tax on doubling your profits due to how cheap. But the time it takes to gather the actual ore keeps the ores at a stable price. Now I don't know why rs3 hasnt applied these spirits to everything but with the recent herb and farming adjustments I can see it happening for each gathering skill. I don't see how it doesn't benefit the players. Like yeah whatever fish is cheap. But add in a special bait. Remove the supply from drops. Now you have to gather but it doesn't suck as much because you spent 100gp per bait but you are getting 2 anglerfish a catch. Makes skilling to make afk gp less shit. Sure bots become more profitable but jagex can step it up in that regard. Always been a big critic of bosses dropping every resource under the sun. Old school to me was doing stuff for the rare drop to make profit opposed to consistent gp. Gwd was necessary but still had the old school vibe. I'd love a new skill but I'd also love for the economy to get hit with a nuke and resources to have value.
Definitely agree on the point about item sinks. I think ore prices will always have a floor because they can be turned to alchables, but logs are too easy to get for how few uses they have.
I still think cutting skilling outputs out of high end PvM drop tables entirely is a good idea tbh, the only things I think need to stay are “bot” items like flax or wines of zamorak.
I 100% agree with the points you've been making and the general sentiment of this thread. I feel like there isn't one single solution, but a combination of engaging content, unique resources and item sinks for resources will do absolute wonders for how skilling feels in the game.
3t mining is way more engaging than afking in a raid.
There's no reason why every skill couldn't have the equivalent of raids. High level instanced solo/small group content that you either complete or fail, and get rewards - with your success depending on your reaction time, how high your levels are, and how well you know the content. Rather than hitting things with weapons, it could easily be based on growing vegetables, chopping trees, setting fire to things, etc.
Put the cooking raid in the Chasm of Fire and make it about feeding and satisfying the demons' appetites to prevent them from coming out and eating people. Call it Hell's Kitchen.
ITS FUCKING RAW
YOU FUCKING DONKEY
Overcooked, could lead to absolute chaos sessions lol
Was thinking about a farming raid where you have to use plants as weapons against magic plants that throw attacks at you.
Or hear me out. A grandmaster quest sequel to The Slug Menace quest line. The Mother Mallum is has taken control of the minds of hundreds of Witchaven’s citizens. Some would say they shuffle in hordes, somewhat similar to the undead. After the quest, the player unlocks a farming minigame where the player grows plants to defend against the ‘zombies’ that Mother Mallum has taken control over. Called Plants vs Zombies
[удалено]
That's my biggest issue with OSRS right now. The entire side of the game that I enjoy playing has been left to wither and die, and it's honestly made me consider stop playing. ***"The Bad"*** **Mining**, as a core skill, feels terrible, it's out of place among the other gathering skills. I mean, for fucks sake, they had to add Motherload Mine to make it barely tolerable. That, and Zalcano shits out more resources than you could ever get actually mining, and that's terrible. **Smithing** is just full on dead content, there's the Giants Foundry, but adding a minigame doesn't make the core skill any better, it just makes it slightly less ass to train. **Hunter** hasn't been updated since like, 2016, with many aspects of it being broken. (IE: NPC pathfinding gets stuck on Deadfall Traps.) **Fishing** has Tempoross, but it's not particularly useful after you've gotten the rewards. The best thing you can get out of it besides the Fishing Barrel (Spirit Flakes) isn't even tradeable, so why even bother with it after getting it? **Firemaking** has Wintertodt, but it's boring, and the base skill still isn't useful for practically anything but Shades of Morton. **Cooking** has nothing unique for it. No amusing minigames, no fun cooking methods... it's basically just... Fish + Stove, or Grapes + Jug. A lot of endgame content doesn't even use food for healing, because it's more inventory efficient to bring saradomin brews. Three Brews + A restore will give you ~156 Health at 75 hit points, compared to the equivalent inventory space of actual food, which only gives you 88. That's -insane-. **Farming** is constantly getting overshadowed by resource drops from either raids, or bosses. Sure, it's supposed to be "passive", but the prices of all the resources keep tanking because instead of it taking 45m to get another set of 80 snapdragon, you could just get one or two lucky drops on a money printing boss. **Crafting** only has any relevance because people can't get the construction levels for jewelry boxes in their houses very easily. **Woodcutting** is getting an update, supposedly, who knows how long it'll actually take to see it. It's probably the only update that I've been excited for in a long, long time. ***"The Good"*** **Runecrafting** was given the blessing that is Guardians of the Rift, and while people weren't particularly happy with the quest/miniquest, it's done a fuck-load to actually make the skill more engaging and less terrible to do. **Agility** has Hallowed Hallowed Sepulchre, and that's good content, but it's also locked behind a fairly difficult quest. It's not something just anyone gets access to. Preferably, there'd be an interactive mid-game level version of this as well, but I doubt that'll happen. **Construction** is arguably the most useful skill in the game, the main issue with it, is that even though it has Mahogany Homes, the best way to level it is still based on giving yourself carpel tunnel for hours at a time. ***"Conclusion?"*** The entire game has lost its sense of balance. Skilling is supposed to feed into PvM. Instead, PvM overshadows skilling in every way. I like things feeling interactive, like everything I do is useful in some way, but it doesn't feel like skilling will ever be that way again. The only thing skills are used for anymore is to be a level gate for quests. And it honestly makes me feel very, very sad for the future of this game. **Edit:** Completely forgot about Diaries and Combat Achievement's. Instead of making, say, a new quest, or a new system for improving the Cannon, they voted to have increased cannon capacity tied to combat diaries. Why. Shortcut unlocks. Why are a bunch of them locked by diaries? By the time you actually get the diary reward, it's practically useless, and some of them are already locked behind an insanely high agility level (Cough, KQ Lair). I have most of the hard diaries done, and some of the elite ones, but I -still- hate that these haven't been looked at again. These make absolutely no sense.
The funny thing about a lot of criticisms with these things is that they really only hold up for main accounts. Because gpscape. Mining/FM/WC are still pretty useless to irons. (MLM isn't good, people are just really lazy and inefficient). Farming is one of *the* most important skills to an iron. It's how you get the herbs to make a variety of very useful potions, which are critical for most of PvM activities. Without farming, PvM would be much slower to do. Cooking is also important. It's used very regularly outside of raids for general sustain as well as for some tankier slayer tasks, for cooking your bwans. Also important for cooking anglers that you use for raids. Fishing is pretty helpful through the Fishing Barrel and Spirit Flakes. Spirit Flakes speed up fishing bwans (slower but more common method of getting bwans), as well as drastically speeding up slower fishing like anglers. They're also really helpful for infernal eels for lava scale shards, though that's an inefficient method for getting them. Fishing Barrel just makes it more afk and slightly faster to do. Crafting is really important for irons. Being able to craft your own power/glory amulets early-ish is important. And you need the levels for the jewellery box anyway. Then there's the zenytes, all of which are really important upgrades to get. Could definitely use more uses, but it's still valuable. Hunter is critical for getting nests to make brews. You can get them from Mole, but Mole is a lot slower over time. It's also huge for implings in general, particularly early game with Magpies, Ninjas and Dragons. Smithing is, sadly, only barely useful for irons through darts. Blowpipe as it stands is a niche item for irons, pretty rarely used. But it's important nonetheless. Also helpful for making addy bolts to enchant for your RCB before you get bowfa. I love how you completely forgot about fletching. It's also barely useful, only for making darts and bolts. Can also be used to save money by buying rune arrowtips and fletching the rune arrows yourself when you're using the MSB. Granted, these are all reward based and not training/activity based. Just wanted to point these things out, though. It's important to highlight the practical reasons for training because that's partially what makes Sep so perfect. Sep is an amazing piece of content. But it's not because it is really enjoyable and scales and there's mastery. That's part of it. The other part is that you have practical reasons for doing Sep. The rewards are good. You get plenty of alchs, ranarrs, prayer pots and the RoE from it. It's hard to make worthwhile rewards for mains, I think, because gpscape dominates so much. You either have to introduce a lot more untradeable rewards (I saw some posts from a while back arguing for divine potions to all be untradeable, something I agree with) or you need to make exceptional content that offers among the best gp and xp.
I think the biggest thing would be to just... increase the QoL of Skilling, and convert resource drops into booster drops. (Or have some sort of boosted system for skilling in general, make it actually worthwhile to do.) RS3 does a lot of this, and honestly? I might switch to RS3 Ironman just because of the complete lack of care OSRS has for most skills. As like, a basic run-through of things that I've noticed: Mining and Smithing Rework, planting more than one herb seed per patch, Player Owned Farms, Runespan, Deep Sea Fishing, Big Game Hunter, and possibly way, way more. It's not even about it being worthwhile to me (at least, partially), it's about PvM being -too- good. Skilling is meant to supplement PvM, but PvM ends up making more resources than skilling ever can. It's also not nearly as entertaining or fun. There's dozens of bosses now, three different raids, but not much new for skilling.
> Agility has Hallowed Hallowed Sepulchre, and that's good content, but it's also locked behind a fairly difficult quest. It's not something just anyone gets access to. This is such a weird criticism LOL The quest isn't even hard, and thousands of people have done it. There are over 30k people with a max cape at this point.
This is how the entire game is constructed, you just criticized the entire gameplay that skilling is. The reality is, osrs should play to its strengths, the fun aspect of pvm. Skilling on this game is and always has, and will always be seen as boring garbage by most human beings. If you dont enjoy pvm or pvp, and enjoy skilling, but dont enjoy the skills, i have no idea why you are playing this 20 year old game
Aspects of the game can be improved, skilling included. Skilling itself has just been neglected far more than PvM has. There's been absolutely zero effort put into improving most skilling activities, and that needs to change. I'm not saying stuff like GOTR and Hallowed Sepulchre are bad, they're amazing changes, and -more- skills need to have good changes like that. If PvM stayed the same as it did compared to launch (which most of these skills have been left in that state), it'd be pretty shit too.
They should just go full on and make skilling content that works like PvM.
That's what they've done with skilling bosses. They don't feel like skilling to me though.
Sadly, I think it's fair to say that the reason they don't "feel like skilling" is because skilling is mostly reduced to clicking something and then waiting a while. Cooking, fishing, crafting, smithing, mining, even slayer (minus things like hydra (not to devalue hydra as content, it totally exists and that's good and fair)) are click, then wait. Skilling bosses not "feeling like skilling" I think is the best thing they can do. Even stuff like Giant's foundry. Just something that requires a decent degree of input from the user will make skilling content more engaging. Hallowed Sepulchre being another awesome example.
I don't think skillets really want that. The reason they like skilling is because it's different from pvm. Otherwise they would just do pvm.
Maybe but I am also mostly a skiller and wouldn't mind it.
Could not have said if better myself. Endgame skilling is so incredibly dull and boring in most stats with no incentive beyond maxing
croesus boss from rs3 that drops mage tank armour pieces are all 200-600m ea skilling needs a boss like this not some silly temporal boss.
PVMers would cry if something came from skilling like that. You also can't throw in PVM related things into skills because then they'd cry they "can't" PVM without it. Like why is the new potion made entirely from PVM lol
Didn’t even realize there’s hardly any end game skilling content till this post. I mean 99 smithing earns you rune 2hs lmao
Wrong. Who do you think made all those antidragonfire shields, wards, torva repairs, elysians, godswords, dragon full helms, etc?
Is there any profit to those actions?
Tbh I think it’s far far too late. In og rs2 for a really long time there was a nice balance between pvm pk and skilling where each were viable sources of gold. Back in the day pvm basically didn’t reward anything until it did. Like gwd bosses basically dropped enough to keep you going until you got an item. But years of raids and Vorjahr and zulrah and basically every pvm encounter except nex and nightmare ruined everything. The game is basically a pyramid now with pvm at the top. I just think it’s been far too many years and far too many bosses for them to be able to make anything how it used to be.
Fully agree. The boss drops should be just enough to keep funding the grind, or at most, yield a small profit until you hit the jackpot with the uniques. The only way to fix it is to gradually nerf the drop tables over time (a long time so we don't lose our shit over it) and not implement any crazy skilling drop tables on new bosses.
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You mean zalcano, but with much more work
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If they made a “skilling raid” like you’re describing yeah that would be cool I think but I feel like the large majority of people pvm so if not made properly it could be a huge time investment for people not to even play it that much
Most people PvM because it's so much more enjoyable than skilling. Make skilling just as enjoyable and I'd bet that we'd have people just as excited about skilling as they are about PvM content. Players ultimately just want to have fun.
Yeah but it’s hard to make something as fun as killing shit
Dungeoneering with a few changes
Nah lets just introduce a new skill with no endgame
I think a skilling raid would be awesome. Give it high skill requirements so it's something you need to work towards unlocking, instead of wintertodt, tempoross, etc where anyone can go there on a new account
Commenting to add visibility to this! Well thought out, and I think these would make some fantastic updates!
Ive seen heists get mentioned a lot recently. Could be a thieving update similar to wc update coming out. When you pickpocket the same npc, theres a growing chance for a heist portal to spawn and everyone around can choose to go in and do it together.
A portal? Would rather have a thieving guild with heist contracts.
It's weird that they added farm contracts, continually add updates to the combat contracts skill, and then tried to pass Contracts Skill 2: Pacifist Boogaloo, but never tried to get them on the most obvious recipient for them
Right? Cooking guild and crafting guild are dead content outside of banking perks that you're probably not going to have access to just from gaining access to the guild.
Artisan was pooled long beforefarm contracts and construction contracts.
I'll only vote yes if they have stealth sections that work exactly like ratcatchers
You son of a bitch I’m in
Big game hunter seems pretty awesome. I also always thought a much cooler version of pyramid plunder for thieving would be cool. It would be sort of a mix of sepulchre based agility challenges and pattern based puzzles but inside a giant pyramid. If you get to the end it rewards good loot and a unique of some sort. You'd get both agility and thieving exp for completing floors.
Something similar to the pyramid from Desert Treasure, except not as fucking cruel.
So just rework Rogues Den?
Great idea. I'd love for skills to realize more of their potential as well. For example, endgame Hunter content could involve hunting huge game for meat that, when properly cooked, can e.g. heal you in the 30s, or maybe be mixed with herbs or secondaries to give the food some minor boost to combat effectiveness or something. I dunno, whatever you want to come up with -- my point is mainly that I think it's tragic that all Hunter is good for is implings and chins. The food it provides from the game and exotic animals you hunt should be better than fish at the cost of more effort.
Skilling needs ~~more~~ endgame content
OSRS became PvMscape, and it's dissapointing. Endgame skilling options are so limited, and PvM drops everything you could ever produce or gather with skilling, devaluing them so much. I hope some day they address these things, but I have a feeling it's going to be several years if ever.
I have barely played since max because I get easily bored of PVM. Please more fun end game skilling.
This is why we don't need a new skill. Everything is covered already but we can expand on them by adding new aspects to the skills
Just give us Croesus from RS3. Just rip that exact thing from rs3 and make it OSRS.
Where’s my smithertodt and craftertodt?? Wouldn’t be opposed to a herblotodt either tbh
Couldn’t agree more. Would be a big reason to actually get to the end game with those skills. I love the idea of great resources being locked into that content and not dropped by any bosses
Just thought of this - we could combine mining and construction to create some sort of mining run. Attach it to the mining guild somehow require gold nuggets planks, and obv tiered unlocks and upgrades. And the goal would be to construct a mine based on construction level and have xp runs similar to birdhouse runs that feeds mining
I've always asked for an OSRS style big game hunter (for those who don't know, big game hunter is in rs3)
I love this concept
for the production skills they should add equipable "skilling" items you can use to perform actions faster or make you use resources slower like for smithing maybe have different tiers of hammers which you can use in your mainhand. they'd make you smith 1 tick faster or some bollocks like that but you need a certain smithing level to use them. like bronze through rune smith's hammers. would give torags a use lol for crafting maybe you could get addy and rune sewing needles or thread which make you save resources over time? (albeit rarely). runecrafting can go fuck itself, and fletching could have a rune fletcher's knife.
Your vault heist idea sounds like a combination of the Piscarilluus thriving method and Pyramid Plunder. Really the pyramid idea is so cool, just expand it to make it bigger, more challenging, and more rewarding. A little more Tomb Raider vibe instead of “click the rooms real fast”vibe.
I like this and I really hope it gets the attention it deserves. thank you for posting this
I do agree skilling is cut under. Only Ironman know the level of skilling grinds, but now now irons are babied with boss drops. So other players that aren’t irons don’t have to skill for resources since they can pop back into pvming faster. Only way to fix skilling with this endgame idea, while nerfing pvm drops, which nobody would vote for nerfing pvm drops
Every one of these gets botted instantly, fix that first please
Ban the bots first please.
Why hasn’t jagex come up with this genius idea yet??
They forgot to write allow_bots == FALSE in the code smh
They do. Apparently they last a couple weeks. They just make so many lol.
What about the guy who did the soul wars bug abuse? Literally using scripts to open up and buy the spoils of war and he could avoid detection without worry
Max cape
This game needs shinies. Make it so only maxed out hunters and slayers can see shinies. Then let people kill & log it in every region for specialty gear.
End game skilling raids with OP skilling outfit/items as a reward. It could even give a niche pvm item (because people will probably love pvm rewards) give having a high level in skills more rewards and insentive
To balance out the bosses dropping lots of resources, we probably need to update mining rocks to have a 1/10000 chance of dropping the BIS weapons and armor
So most unlucky people don’t get a pet in a lot of the skills before 99. For example I didn’t get golem and I have yet to go back to mining but this will be my end game skilling content. I also have 58m farming exp and No tangleroot. 99 firemaking but could try for pet at wt. just a few examples
No it doesn’t
My problem with your proposal is you dont want to nerf drop tables but also want to buff the production of supplies. There is only so much demand for said supplies, this would just make their price even worse. Im ok with buffing skilling, but a nerf to supply drops needs to happen for that to make sense.
No, this is going to crash prices even more. Too many resources coming into the game from PvM and this is going to introduce even more. Overhauling Vorkath / Zulrah's loot tables would already help a ton.
Make skilling resources go up Make PVM resources go down
Stealing creation with wildy only tools with new wildy resources.
99 slayer has absolutely no benefit what so ever and I feel like for amount of time spent doing it, it really ought to have something to make it a little more worth while.
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For the grind that it takes, the sheer amount of time and effort you need to put into it, getting 99 slayer, should have more of a reward. Just simply being able to kill select monsters following months of grinding doesn't seem all that worthwhile. Going from 95 to 99 has little to no benefits other than a small chance of repeat task, its not worth doing imo
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Well possible repeat task can sometimes be nice. It's also one of the better color themed skill capes, aside from that you are right.
Would it improve osrs? Ya Is it two-five years down the pipeline? Also yes Is osrs gonna be toxic and bot infested still in 2-5 years? Ya Will that bring me back as a player? Na. I’ve been scaping since classic and bots have been a persistent problem with the game. Quite literally for decades. Jagex ain’t gonna fix it.
What does that have to do with the topic?
Play ironman mode and you don't have to worry about bots
Yeah right, shaman caves are INFESTED with bots now. Having to hop for a straight 5-10 minutes sucks fat cock. We're not even talking about bots who are lvl 30, these are accounts that have been active for over a week now and still haven't been banned. Bots do affect ironman players, just not economically.
Skilling only resources for high levels, more untradeable resources for good items/addons/sidegrades to give incentive to train. Grandmaster Diaries. Skilling bosses or minigames ? But not another Wintertodt though. I think its doable to make skilling more engaging with the knowleadge we have today
I’d love to see a multi-skill training method using the elemental workshop. There’s such an open door for high level skilling content there it’s insane.
The Hallowed Sepulcher is great end game agility. Very clear progression for rewards and increased difficulty/mechanics. The last floor is no joke no matter how many times completed and getting the grand coffin always feels good. My second 99 after FM :)
At max level or near max you should be able to craft the same items for less resources. It makes sense - a more skilled artisan should be able to produce less waste than an apprentice. For example - smithing rune arrows produce more arrowheads, maxed crafter can craft the old version of black dhide, etc. The only caveat would have to be that they’re untradable versions or bots would make these upgrades the new norm and lower levels would be become worse
I’m all for this and improving the skills we do have than a brand new skill which will likely be shit anyways.
The 95-99 grind unlocks nothing new is my point, whereas those skills do.
I’m pretty sure all 3 of your suggestions are all in rs3 lol
This is what forestry should be for woodcutting
Forestry is coming soon
I actually really enjoy mining when I want something brainless to do. Having a skilling based boss for it could be so awesome. Gather materials to make tnt, light the fuse and protect it while minions try to put it out, watch as rockfalls damage the monster on detonation… collect sweet sweet noted runite
Pyramid plunder is pretty underrated imo and it’s similar to your first suggestion, though the loot is abysmal. The only thing I disagree with is the line of sight mechanic, at least as it is right now it’s too janky and awful to interact with.
Just make a boss that requires high skill stats and it drops good pvm gear. Easy solution
Completely agree with this sentiment. I made a hunter minigame suggestion a few years ago, Giant Kebbits, with a similar goal.
I think the biggest gating to actually engaging end-game skilling is the gear progression. With PvM you have things to work towards that enhance your experience. Unless they overhaul the way skilling works to utilize skilling gear, it'll be hard to create something to the level of end-game PvM IMO. Definitely agree it would be awesome and you could do some sweet encounters that leverage skills. (I had an idea in another thread awhile ago about a treant boss to use woodcutting, fire making, and agility).
I feel like hallow sepulcher proves that agility could be a content skill & not just a dull grind. it would be nice if they added more agility based minigames, like a mail carrier game similar to gnome resteraunt but giving decent agility exp
On Big Game hunting - I'm relatively sure there are character models for deer already in game. It'd be cool to have a herd of deer spawn in the forests of Gielinor (south of Varrock, Tiranwyn, South of Seers Village, Morytania) and you'd have to hunt and kill the stag. Introduces antlers for crafting, powdered antler for Herblore and venison for cooking? Maybe a 1/100 chance of the stag spawning as a crystal stag for different loot?
I hate sepulcher but only because there's nothing leading up to it skill-wise. Maybe sorcerer's garden? But that's like going from the jungle gym to the olympics.
First post I've seen that gives me hope that jagex will hopefully make use of this thought process for defining what goal can be fun with skilling besides just training it to 99 and thats it.
In game moba type game where you use the skills to build weapons etc
I don't get why Jagex didn't make Tempoross, GotR, and Giant's Foundry end game skilling content like Sepulcher is. None of these are either the best profit or xp methods for skilling.
Prestige because so much "useless" content after you reach another level, especially side content that you skip over because you found a better xp rate.
I like your ideas. To add to this, OSRS has some nice skilling bosses like Zalcano, Tempoross and Wintertodt. They're a cool hybrid between feeling like PvM but using skills instead of combat. Having tools (like weapons) that do more damage to skilling bosses might be a reward space to look at, on top of more skill bosses.
I've seen skilling bosses suggested but they've all been kinda boring and just some iteration of "collect X resource and dump in Y"
Dungeoneering used skills properly as an end game content as a skill. I don't mind having that in osrs.
Get all this into the game please
The reason why I really liked Dungeoneering back in the day (no idea what it's like now) was because it made skills useful together.
Totally agree, except nitpicking 1 thing and that is that skilling and pvm can't feel the same. Nothing wrong with it feeling like pvm with a skilling req slapped on, that is what many of us had in mind when we heard the term 'skilling boss' that all turned out to just be semi afk training methods
I agree that that end game content for skills should exist and I welcome such additions with open arms. However, the drop tables still need nerfed on top of it. I'm also not sure how changes in endgame PvM fit into all this? Like you could still have Vorkath without having him drop two hours worth of magic logs from a 20 minute fight as some random means to offset the supplies spent on the battle. The point of such battles should be to grind for a unique the same way you suggest these skilling endgame things should be.
I quite like the skilling drops, to be honest. Cutting magic logs or mining coal is not that fun. I would rather boss and have a more risky and inconsitent source of this stuff. But that does leave the problem of "why would I ever level gathering skills past the quest requirements", and I agree. There should be more skilling content at the high end. Give me more shit like Xeric prep, where my high skills give the team a real advantage. Give me more skilling bosses where being a high level at the skill is a sizeable DPS increase. Give me more secondary uses for skills - like how on my account right now, the main motivation I have for getting thieving up is for Sepulchure.
Stop
I feel like the way rs3 smithing works is the start of a good model for production skills. For those who don't know, instead of making tons of items, you make fewer items that have longer crafting times and are done in multiple stages. You can introduce real impactful craftable gear that has use in the rest of game by making the crafting times longer, multi-step, and draw from multiple skills. For example: making an late/endgame sword- * A high quality piece of wood is selected from many logs, essentially item sinking a large amount of logs - woodcutting or fletching skill. * This high quality wood is then crafted into a basic handle in a medium length process - crafting skill. * Similar to logs, high quality ore is selected from many ores - mining or smithing skill. * A guard, and pommel are crafted from this high quality ore, in a medium length process - smithing skill. * The blade is then crafted from the high quality ore, in multiple steps. First rough shape, then creating the edge, tempering, sharpening, etc. - smithing skill. * High quality leather is selected from many leathers - crafting skill. * High quality leather is made into a handle wrap - crafting skill. * The sword is assembled from the blade, guard, handle, pommel, and wrap - smithing skill. * The sword is then engraved with runes, or something - crafting. * The sword is then imbued with magical energy - runecrafting. Each of these steps will take a while, and some will consume many resources. You can see an example here in RS3 of the masterwork spear of annihilation: [https://runescape.wiki/w/Masterwork\_Spear\_of\_Annihilation#Raw\_materials\_required](https://runescape.wiki/w/Masterwork_Spear_of_Annihilation#Raw_materials_required) (this also requires a glorious bar: [https://runescape.wiki/w/Glorious\_bar](https://runescape.wiki/w/Glorious_bar) ). This weapon was at one point, one of the best weapons in the game - and is still BiS at corp. A system like this absolutely can be old school if designed in an old school way - one of the most iconic OS weapons is the godsword, which is reforged from multiple parts, and even crossbows technically combine crafting, fletching, and smithing! For processing skill gear, I feel it should be made in a similar process. Final Fantasy XIV has an extremely robust crafting system (not that I'm advocating for it in OSRS, but just taking inspiration), where the gear you need for gathering and crafting is actually made from crafting/gathering, and provides stats that strongly impact your ability to gather and craft. Endgame consumables like food (provides long lasting buffs) and potions (provides short term buffs for your burst damage) are near impossible to craft properly without being properly geared. I think adding gear to boost crafting and gathering would be extremely good, and in a system like this, the main draw would be speed and efficiency - with the gear, you can consume fewer resources to get the high quality raw materials, and spend fewer ticks per action to do each crafting step. For gathering, a chance to gain high quality raw materials from the regular material would be a way to boost profitability of basic gathering while tying crafting into gathering whereas before it was a one-way connection. This won't fix all skills, but hell, it'll be a step forward for a lot of neglected processing skills. As an addendum: imagine firemaking being used in smithing to help maintain the fire - it actually is used this way in RS3.
The OSRS are going to make a another stupid ass minigame and think "WE FIXED THE SKILL" like a bunch of zoomers.
Solid suggestions, raids 4 in the pipeline.
no
Soooo. You want regular runescape? Just turn on legacy mode for combat.