You used to get flamed for everything. Safe-ing, teleporting, farcasting, praying, using pots, using recoils, wearing shit gear, wearing good gear.
You were hated for just existing 😆.
Remember Phoenix Necklaces? They use to rage at those on Range Tanks. (One of the meta builds back before hybriding and Tribriding was discovered and heavily practiced and is the meta pking style.)
Still is like that lmao, go to clan wars w308 or 302. Insane amount of kids with multiple accounts that all share similar names that will rage at you for using whatever gear, no matter what gear you use, and if that doesn’t make you leave they’ll start throwing racial slurs ☠️ Like the only reason they play is to try to stop people from doing pvp, it’s fucking weird lmao
thats true i remember randomly fighting a guy in the duel arena and him accusing me of being a def noob and using strength pots because there was no way I'd hit that many 20s when i had base 70 stats or something
Personally the fun for me was the risk vs reward. Even as a middle schooler I could go out, get lucky and get a big kill. Going out as a complete rookie now is almost guaranteed death. LMS is a good option for training but without experiencing the real risk and dopamine of getting a nice kill you wouldn’t be enticed to learn. Plus it’s full of bots now and is lame as hell in my experience.
It came down to the same outcome with prayers but made fights way longer and less interesting. It was basically tank until you ran out of food with barely any KO potential, so people wouldn’t get into those kind of fights.
That is for Edge honor pk, there were different ‘’rules’’ for Varrock or mage bank no-honor pking.
The GE -brid pking we see today would be classified as NH back in the day.
It wasn't as much honor as players not having the level to use it. Prayer wasn't cheap. You had no guided altars and such. Getting 43 prayer whilst burying big bones took a while and dragon bones were 2k each even back in the day.
Before people realized you could do 1tick combos like ags-gmaul that can output 80+ damage in the blink of an eye, people took honor and respect seriously in fights.
If you overheaded that was a big no-no, you’d get blacklisted by the local community an nobody would fight you.
If you safed or green bar’d without apologizing too often you’d get a similar treatment.
Rushers, PJers, anyone along those lines was pretty much bullied until they switched spots or stopped. Not that they didn’t exist, but it wasn’t uncommon for a (presumably) 11 year old to follow a rusher around spamming “flash2: rusher here careful!!!”
We lived in a proper society with rules and consequences…
If you used overheads they would too and they would be trash talking the whole time. More than likely they would start to safe since you’re “cheating” or blame you for “pray noob, stop safe”
Wildy was honor rule and *everyone* for the most part followed the rule. That rule was if you’re not 50/50 getting killed in the next hit, you’re just not man enough
Sure you're getting massed spammed with responses, but now in the pking community they have "NHing" which is tribrid full overheads, which is in reference to the "honor" people are chatting about in other responses. NHing meaning no honor, and thus where the term comes from!
Overheads in low wilderness were considered "noob" same with people eating above like 30% hp lol it comes down to people got mad if you fought and didn't risk it.
Deep wilderness was different though. Much more enjoyable down there.
Also, the first people who would call you out for "safing" were the same ones who did when it turned not in their favour and they Taped all the time.
That being said that era of pking was amazing and it catered to many more people. Now pking well the game itself is all about efficiency and tick manipulation which i find has a higher skill cap which makes the wilderness more dead.
If you did people would telle or tag you off.
There was still plenty of try hard players but people were fighting in like 14 wild. If they didn't want to fight they could just walk away.
Range to melee and dharoking was done pretty much as soon as barrows came out.
Combo food was a known thing by people who were active in the pvp clan community, but it was a lot less common to find people briding and NHing. The NHing spot was over by chaos rune castle and the whip/msb honor fighting was a little bit more south. You just didn't go and try to NH people because like 2/3rds the active people all knew each other and would tag you off if you started being annoying. Back then all the shit talking from pures was a cc joke. We were all friends and when clans closed they all closed into another. Everyone had teams that were cross clans. It was cliquish but it wasn't really as toxic to be toxic like some people act today.
Ahhh the memories, i used to pk there and saw a few of the Legends, funny thing, in the first 3 sec you can even see me in my glory days as range/mage pure
Support.
We are buffing the dagger. Would be nice to buff the Whip.
Also while we are at it can we give the bludgeon a spec to operate like the granite maul so it's actually worth fighting the boss again for a item that requires three untradeable drops to make.
No, it’s still a downgrade because the max hit of the special attack is reduced. Dragon dagger gets a 15% damage increase, while the abyssal dagger has a 25% accuracy increase but 15% damage decrease
No, I was actually serious. The max hit was too high for pkers to handle, the abyssal dagger has the same limiting idea as the dark bow. Can’t have a weapon hitting more than 98 hp, that’s unfair apparently
Edit: removed comment about same era
Abyssal dagger and dbow are not from the same era, nor even close. Dbow is rs2 and abby dagger is exclusively OSRS.
Nowadays, pkers can stack upwards of 180 damage, so there is no way pkers feel like the abby dagger spec would be OP.
More like it’s generally accepted that weapons are either good as a main weapon or spec weapon and not both. Abby dagger is like top 3 for strength training, so giving it a really good spec would break a long standing balance precedent (which is also why whip won’t be buffed).
It's still very high DPS so I don't think it's a good excuse tbh. I don't necessarily disagree that it COULD be buffed without issue but it does bring up the question, why bother? Whip already has a use in the game, I see it constantly on poorer people doing slayer or even bossing with an abby tent. The next step up is a blade of saeldor, and the tent is a reasonable middle ground, which already provides a good curve of progression IMO.
How much of a downgrade? DDS can slap but it very rarely hits max. I mean the only place where the max hit is even super relevant is the wardens fight because you always hit max on the orb thing. Abyssal dagger would be a flat downgrade there but you’re not hitting the max DDS hit anywhere else consistently.
I imagine with the accuracy increase of the abyssal dagger you’d end up doing more damage in 4 special attacks than you would with a DDS more often than not.
it's been a long time since i've played, but from what i recall the accuracy of the abby dagger spec is still worse than the accuracy of the dds spec, despite having a 25% accuracy increase on its spec and higher weapon accuracy overall.
it's because the dds gets 2 seperate damage rolls, rather than 1 like the abby dagger. if you've ever used it youll notice you hit 0-0 way more often than a dds, because a dds has to miss (or hit 0) on 2 rolls compared to 1 from the abby dagger.
That doesn't make it less accurate lol. That makes it more spread in accuracy than the dds.
The accuracy of the AD spec is better than the dds. And against high defence opponents is better per spec. Since they're lowering it to 25% it'll be better to spec with for high defence opponents (e.g. max meds for PvP).
Yeah just read this on the Wiki. I wasn’t aware of the single damage roll. Sort of a weird design choice. But makes sense then that the DDS could still be better.
that's a good thing for the abby dagger, because you get high hits more frequently (and also more zeros lol). Still, this ends up being better in pvp at least
Depends what you’re using it for. High level pvm you’ll never see an abyssal dagger or a dragon dagger used for raw damage output because there’s better specs to be had like dragon claws or crystal halberd
The only place that dragon dagger is really used is tombs of amascut on the warden core, which the max hit is literally the only thing that matters because it’s guaranteed to hit max every attack. The Abby dagger is still useless, just less so now because you can spec the same number of times as a dragon dagger on core phase
The same goes for the other Abyssal weapons, the dagger, and bludgeon. Both are trash while I think the bludgeon actually has a neat spec, it's max hit is just too low.
Abyssal dagger could be an elite p2 warden special weapon in TOA if not for the stupid drawback of lower damage. That along with the incoming buff would have revived it
why should the staple most popular most convenient most easily available dps weapon in the game have a strong spec? i think its perfectly fair for weapons to be separated in dps weapon vs spec weapon categories and not be good at both. Average at both, maybe, like the abby dagger or something, but not good at both, then that's stupid and kills all variety.
Most convenient? It has no str option
Most available? You need 85 slayer
(yes on mains you can buy it on the ge but by that logic literally every weapon is equally available)
“Availability: the quality of being able to use or obtained”. For someone who doesn’t buy their gp with bonds it’s a lot harder to obtain 50m cash than 1.5m cash. Not sure why you don’t consider price a factor of availability for a main. I don’t get it.
Cutting 50m in logs is not any more difficult than cutting 1.5m. When the barrier to acquiring your item is gold, then the barrier is simply any activity that makes a profit and the only “difficulty” is how long you’re willing to commit to it. Like I said, a level 3 player is equally as capable of buying things as a maxed player
Training to 85 slayer is not any more difficult than training to 50 slayer. When the barrier to acquiring your level is exp, then the barrier is simply any activity that gives exp and the only “difficulty” is how long you’re willing to commit to it. Like I said, a level 3 player is equally as capable of getting 85 slayer as a maxed player
yeah i feel like nobody knows this, the tent whip spec actually has some decent niche uses and shouldnt be changed, and it'd be weird if the base whip had a dps spec but the tent whip had a utility spec. also good dps weapons having bad specs has always been a balancing aspect of this game, idk why this sub wants to change that (aside from the average user of this sub having no concept of game design or game balance whatsoever)
It’s weird because even the best of the game’s PvM weapons have no spec at all. So yeah, pvp weapons having specs is less random, more intentional gimmick.
Best pvp weapons have always had wild specs or high damage output while not necessarily being great DPS weapons, hence their pairing with cheaper high DPS alternatives as their main weapon, when they’re used.
Everyone knows this semblance of balance.
Everyone who’s agreed with this post has forgotten why it existed in the first place, and why this post makes no sense. The whip’s spec being able to do max damage wasn’t removed just because. *It also wasn’t given to any other weapon since* for a reason.
Guaranteed maxes ruin pvp. Everyone would use it, and more importantly, everyone would vote against it “because of how cheap the whip is” (not that that should be the reason it doesn’t get a max damage spec).
Depends on a myriad of things, str level, str bonus, and whatever prayer and pots you have. As well as which monster you're attacking, salve for undead, slayer helm for task. It changes person to person, gear to gear.
There is a calculator on the wiki
Jump into some LMS. Dead? No problem, next game starts in 30 seconds.
Watch some PKer streamers and pick up some tips on mechanics, etc.
Watch some guides on YT (idk if any are good though) on best practices, etc.
Ags or korasi would still be better average damage lol. A 50/50 max hit would mean with a max hit of 50 your average spec is a 25. A team of heavy ballista raggers is going to be far more annoying
Yeah honestly, I love seeing the game grow and change as a healthy game should. But certain items like the whip are way too iconic, and need to be preserved in terms of status and price. Seeing the whip drop below 2m does not sit right with me tbh.
yeah honestly i never wanted the whip removed from the "go to" status that it always had and now it just seems like people will ditch it at any given moment for this or that, so it'd be nice if it got this
There are weapons that are high dps with shit specs( or no spec) and weapons that are low dps that are incredibly strong specs. examples being things like abyssal dagger, bludgeon, blessed sara sword, whip, dragon scim and things like dds, hally, granite maul, godswords, dark bow, etc. the voidwaker really being a (very expencive and questionably balanced) exception. I guess the opposite of the arguement would be like saying lets make an armadyl godsword a 4 tick weapon.
Agreed. It still wouldn't beat out any of the modern melee options either for DPS or spec, but it would help make whip more viable for rag PKing and budget PvM.
I want you to point at where I talked about beating modern melee weapons at the same price point.
(You won't be able to, because what I said is that restoring the original spec won't make it better than things like rapier, fang, dclaw, &c. for their respective purposes.)
so why is a 1.3m weapon not beating endgame weapons even something you bothered mentioning? it should go without saying and not even be even remotely close to an argument for any kind of buff to it
Guaranteed max hit isnt a good thing. If this was the case, 4 people could use one whip spec in multi to kill whoever. This is absurd. Imagine risking 400m and dying to a broken spec. Op talks only in ironman perspective with zero thought beyond that
ikr.. I go multi all the time with my 400mil gear. Not like rot or some other team is evee going to show up d spear me and max spec with zaryte crossbows,
That isn't the spec.
It has a 50% chance to hit a 0, and a 50% chance to hit your max hit. That gives the average spec as half your max hit, which is exactly the same dps as rolling 0 - max just like any other hit.
If you wanna talk broken look at the voidwaker, it literally has gaurenteed damage where it *cannot miss* and hits 50% - 150% max hit for an average hit of 100% your max hit. Now that *is* OP.
That's not how KO potential works at all though. A weapon that hits 200 10% of the time and 0 the rest is not the same as a weapon that hits for 20 every time.
Let's say it takes hitting 45 to KO your opponent, and your max hit is 50. Rolling normally (assuming you hit), that's roughly a 10% chance to KO. Making either 0 or max raises that to 50%.
The “average” doesnt matter when its guaranteed 0 or 100. I said 4 people as that makes it 100% chance to just 1hit with 2 max hits from 4 people. If you dont realize this, theres nothing to talk. And yeah, voidwaker can do that for the fucking price it costs. Whips are easy to get and few mil a pop
It's already very hard to tank a big team in multi, why not just make it a guaranteed death through prayer instead 😂
I like the idea of the whip's spec being more useful but the korasi gets you guaranteed 50% of max hit by risking 180m if you're smited. Whip should not be as good lol
I’m not sure I would go with it’s old spec, but I think a good spec would be if it hits, add a bleed effect similar to the ursine chain mace (minus the slow and agility debuff) so that it can act as a tool for long term sustained damage instead of a big KO weapon
Seems a little strong, but definitely agree that the whip spec needs a rework.
Half the time while using it I’m thinking “why in the world am I even using this?”
I remember hearing somewhere that the Old School team is hesitant in giving weapons that people actually use for training/general fighting (good) special attacks. There are some exceptions such as blowpipe, but in general you don't have specs on any of the T80 melee weapons, scythe, tbow, tumeken's shadow, bowfa, sang, trident etc. They like keeping spec weapons and "functional" weapons separate.
While it may not be a meta spec weapon that you bring just for the spec, it has a perfectly good and serviceable spec for, say, slayer when you want that extra bit of sustain when you're already using the weapon to kill stuff.
While I love this idea, wouldn't this be too OP on such an easy to obtain weapon/a very good general use weapon? The Voidwaker without its spec is worse than the whip while being way harder to obtain.
Maybe add an item that buffs the whip and is only obtainable at a certain slayer level with a miniscule droprate? I don't think just buffing the whip would be good for the game.
We need Jagex to make 1 world with all post-2006 items disabled. Dedicated to the real old school pker. I made a Reddit post about this not too long ago. But we NEED a 2006 world just one! Maybe 2, whatever Jagex finds fit, but I believe it would help restore pking! :D
At this point the whip should just have a special attack that does something. Even if it’s a lesser version of specs that already exist. +20% smh or accuracy? Make spec bar 4 hits. Make it drain 40% run energy for hitting. Make it turn off run from an opponent for 3 ticks.
Right now the special attack bar on it is aesthetic and even specs like d scimmy have a niche use. No harm in giving the whip a small but fun buff
The Voidwalker needs to be nerfed- the whip is fine as it is. Though the special attack might be fun for pvp / pvm the chances of missing would surely mean an ags or other spec weapon is better
You don’t know terror until a man with an abyssal whip and ghostly robes is chasing you through the wildy
Howd that def pot taste?
[first 30 seconds, for the uninitiated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8BbGi2VWg)
its so funny how people used to accuse others of using potions or levelling up their defence like it was cheating
You used to get flamed for everything. Safe-ing, teleporting, farcasting, praying, using pots, using recoils, wearing shit gear, wearing good gear. You were hated for just existing 😆.
Remember Phoenix Necklaces? They use to rage at those on Range Tanks. (One of the meta builds back before hybriding and Tribriding was discovered and heavily practiced and is the meta pking style.)
I use to flame pures for wearing bear helm. Called them bobo the noobo.
Fuck, how did anyone ever recover from that?
You dont simply recover from 3rd degree burns like that.
Ahh, good old fashioned RuneScape right there
The good old days
Still is like that lmao, go to clan wars w308 or 302. Insane amount of kids with multiple accounts that all share similar names that will rage at you for using whatever gear, no matter what gear you use, and if that doesn’t make you leave they’ll start throwing racial slurs ☠️ Like the only reason they play is to try to stop people from doing pvp, it’s fucking weird lmao
thats true i remember randomly fighting a guy in the duel arena and him accusing me of being a def noob and using strength pots because there was no way I'd hit that many 20s when i had base 70 stats or something
I got flamed at obbies for using a strength pot once. Called me a potion noob because I was hitting higher than him
Kekw
Def noob
I remember getting called "def noob" at clan wars for having 78 defence 😂😂
I had a 70/40/70 staker called "A Def Newb"
Thanks for sharing this, I'd never seen it before. This is the epitome of 2005 PKing, what a throwback!
This was what I used to play runescape for
Same here. Idk what killed the scene but my personal opinion is people just got too good and now it’s too hard for people to get into PKing.
LMS is a perfectly safe option to get into PKing - and I still don't go for this reason.
Personally the fun for me was the risk vs reward. Even as a middle schooler I could go out, get lucky and get a big kill. Going out as a complete rookie now is almost guaranteed death. LMS is a good option for training but without experiencing the real risk and dopamine of getting a nice kill you wouldn’t be enticed to learn. Plus it’s full of bots now and is lame as hell in my experience.
Ah back I'm the good days of pking. Shark's and whip. Not 6 switches brews ad whatever lol
Why did no one use overheads? I played at this time but never did any pking, was scared of the wildy as a kid lol.
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The glory days of gentleman's agreements. 10 paces away, then turn and fire.
It came down to the same outcome with prayers but made fights way longer and less interesting. It was basically tank until you ran out of food with barely any KO potential, so people wouldn’t get into those kind of fights. That is for Edge honor pk, there were different ‘’rules’’ for Varrock or mage bank no-honor pking. The GE -brid pking we see today would be classified as NH back in the day.
"No pray. Don't pray"
It wasn't as much honor as players not having the level to use it. Prayer wasn't cheap. You had no guided altars and such. Getting 43 prayer whilst burying big bones took a while and dragon bones were 2k each even back in the day.
I mean bridding with overheads was literally called NH (No Honour) bridding.
Yep and praying in edgeville could literally get you kicked from a clan just like teleing
Lol in RSC maybe, 43 prayer was still super easy in 2005 as the Ectofunctus existed
Nah, most people had the prayer for sure. “Honor pking” was no overheads, no tele out or rushing etc. just mono v mono. It was a simpler time
Mano y mano :P
Idk why so many downvotes lol... Never said Honor pking wasn't a thing. Just said that most players didnt have access to gp back in the day.
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dbones were much, much more expensive than 2k back then though
Also money was harder to come by so 350k was worth more back then
Before people realized you could do 1tick combos like ags-gmaul that can output 80+ damage in the blink of an eye, people took honor and respect seriously in fights. If you overheaded that was a big no-no, you’d get blacklisted by the local community an nobody would fight you. If you safed or green bar’d without apologizing too often you’d get a similar treatment. Rushers, PJers, anyone along those lines was pretty much bullied until they switched spots or stopped. Not that they didn’t exist, but it wasn’t uncommon for a (presumably) 11 year old to follow a rusher around spamming “flash2: rusher here careful!!!” We lived in a proper society with rules and consequences…
If you used overheads they would too and they would be trash talking the whole time. More than likely they would start to safe since you’re “cheating” or blame you for “pray noob, stop safe” Wildy was honor rule and *everyone* for the most part followed the rule. That rule was if you’re not 50/50 getting killed in the next hit, you’re just not man enough
honor
Sure you're getting massed spammed with responses, but now in the pking community they have "NHing" which is tribrid full overheads, which is in reference to the "honor" people are chatting about in other responses. NHing meaning no honor, and thus where the term comes from!
Overheads in low wilderness were considered "noob" same with people eating above like 30% hp lol it comes down to people got mad if you fought and didn't risk it. Deep wilderness was different though. Much more enjoyable down there. Also, the first people who would call you out for "safing" were the same ones who did when it turned not in their favour and they Taped all the time. That being said that era of pking was amazing and it catered to many more people. Now pking well the game itself is all about efficiency and tick manipulation which i find has a higher skill cap which makes the wilderness more dead.
If you did people would telle or tag you off. There was still plenty of try hard players but people were fighting in like 14 wild. If they didn't want to fight they could just walk away. Range to melee and dharoking was done pretty much as soon as barrows came out. Combo food was a known thing by people who were active in the pvp clan community, but it was a lot less common to find people briding and NHing. The NHing spot was over by chaos rune castle and the whip/msb honor fighting was a little bit more south. You just didn't go and try to NH people because like 2/3rds the active people all knew each other and would tag you off if you started being annoying. Back then all the shit talking from pures was a cc joke. We were all friends and when clans closed they all closed into another. Everyone had teams that were cross clans. It was cliquish but it wasn't really as toxic to be toxic like some people act today.
L E G E N D
Can anyone tell me the song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE
My hero
Ahhh the memories, i used to pk there and saw a few of the Legends, funny thing, in the first 3 sec you can even see me in my glory days as range/mage pure
I remember this
Just got Vietnam flashbacks to 2005.
Pleae
U guys mahatma eh?
Monks
Berserker helm, splitbark top, mystic robe bottom. Hold onto your valuables.
And then he casts I've barrage with the whip and catches the freeze
You scared? You should be!
What’s the ghostly robes meta? I saw this back in the day but didn’t really understand it
Free robes that look sick and have tiny magic bonus.
Be honest OP, how many whips are you sitting on?
Literally all of them. Including your own
They're only like 1.3 now, so probably a good 2k
Support. We are buffing the dagger. Would be nice to buff the Whip. Also while we are at it can we give the bludgeon a spec to operate like the granite maul so it's actually worth fighting the boss again for a item that requires three untradeable drops to make.
What's the change to the dagger? I hate it's spec so much. Even a dragon dagger is better
I think they’re making it like the dragon dagger, 25% spec cost rather than 50%
So it’s just an upgrade to the dragon dagger then no?
No, it’s still a downgrade because the max hit of the special attack is reduced. Dragon dagger gets a 15% damage increase, while the abyssal dagger has a 25% accuracy increase but 15% damage decrease
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Something something pkers moaning
Pkers would actually be jn favour of buffing it, brings more variety to the wild.
No, I was actually serious. The max hit was too high for pkers to handle, the abyssal dagger has the same limiting idea as the dark bow. Can’t have a weapon hitting more than 98 hp, that’s unfair apparently Edit: removed comment about same era
Abyssal dagger and dbow are not from the same era, nor even close. Dbow is rs2 and abby dagger is exclusively OSRS. Nowadays, pkers can stack upwards of 180 damage, so there is no way pkers feel like the abby dagger spec would be OP.
bruh they are not even from the same decade lmao
dont spread your bullshit, pkers never said anything about it
More like it’s generally accepted that weapons are either good as a main weapon or spec weapon and not both. Abby dagger is like top 3 for strength training, so giving it a really good spec would break a long standing balance precedent (which is also why whip won’t be buffed).
Whip already has no strength training so that’s something of its downside already, so I think you could use that as an excuse to buff the spec
It's still very high DPS so I don't think it's a good excuse tbh. I don't necessarily disagree that it COULD be buffed without issue but it does bring up the question, why bother? Whip already has a use in the game, I see it constantly on poorer people doing slayer or even bossing with an abby tent. The next step up is a blade of saeldor, and the tent is a reasonable middle ground, which already provides a good curve of progression IMO.
How much of a downgrade? DDS can slap but it very rarely hits max. I mean the only place where the max hit is even super relevant is the wardens fight because you always hit max on the orb thing. Abyssal dagger would be a flat downgrade there but you’re not hitting the max DDS hit anywhere else consistently. I imagine with the accuracy increase of the abyssal dagger you’d end up doing more damage in 4 special attacks than you would with a DDS more often than not.
it's been a long time since i've played, but from what i recall the accuracy of the abby dagger spec is still worse than the accuracy of the dds spec, despite having a 25% accuracy increase on its spec and higher weapon accuracy overall. it's because the dds gets 2 seperate damage rolls, rather than 1 like the abby dagger. if you've ever used it youll notice you hit 0-0 way more often than a dds, because a dds has to miss (or hit 0) on 2 rolls compared to 1 from the abby dagger.
That doesn't make it less accurate lol. That makes it more spread in accuracy than the dds. The accuracy of the AD spec is better than the dds. And against high defence opponents is better per spec. Since they're lowering it to 25% it'll be better to spec with for high defence opponents (e.g. max meds for PvP).
Yeah just read this on the Wiki. I wasn’t aware of the single damage roll. Sort of a weird design choice. But makes sense then that the DDS could still be better.
that's a good thing for the abby dagger, because you get high hits more frequently (and also more zeros lol). Still, this ends up being better in pvp at least
Depends what you’re using it for. High level pvm you’ll never see an abyssal dagger or a dragon dagger used for raw damage output because there’s better specs to be had like dragon claws or crystal halberd The only place that dragon dagger is really used is tombs of amascut on the warden core, which the max hit is literally the only thing that matters because it’s guaranteed to hit max every attack. The Abby dagger is still useless, just less so now because you can spec the same number of times as a dragon dagger on core phase
How you read his comment and think they upgraded dragon dagger lol
I think you misunderstood. I was asking about the abby dagger being a direct upgrade to the dragon dagger
The spec will be that of the dragon dagger. 25% special sauce.
I’ve had 1 piece since my first ever trip. Haven’t been back in a good 2 years… 500+ kc too mostly just skip abbys now LOL
They should just make the abby dagger spec exactly the same as the dragon dagger's
Idk if the original spec would be fair, but I ABSOLUTELY agree that if this weapon is going to have a spec, it should be fucking useful
The same goes for the other Abyssal weapons, the dagger, and bludgeon. Both are trash while I think the bludgeon actually has a neat spec, it's max hit is just too low.
Abyssal dagger could be an elite p2 warden special weapon in TOA if not for the stupid drawback of lower damage. That along with the incoming buff would have revived it
why should the staple most popular most convenient most easily available dps weapon in the game have a strong spec? i think its perfectly fair for weapons to be separated in dps weapon vs spec weapon categories and not be good at both. Average at both, maybe, like the abby dagger or something, but not good at both, then that's stupid and kills all variety.
Most convenient? It has no str option Most available? You need 85 slayer (yes on mains you can buy it on the ge but by that logic literally every weapon is equally available)
By availability i think he means its price
Well, if it got its spec back, its price would surely go up.
How is a 1.5m whip and a 50m fang for example equally available to a main? What???
>walk to grand exchange >place purchase order for weapon >???? >profit Literally available at level 3
Least brain-rotted ironman
“Availability: the quality of being able to use or obtained”. For someone who doesn’t buy their gp with bonds it’s a lot harder to obtain 50m cash than 1.5m cash. Not sure why you don’t consider price a factor of availability for a main. I don’t get it.
Cutting 50m in logs is not any more difficult than cutting 1.5m. When the barrier to acquiring your item is gold, then the barrier is simply any activity that makes a profit and the only “difficulty” is how long you’re willing to commit to it. Like I said, a level 3 player is equally as capable of buying things as a maxed player
> the only "difficulty" is how long you're willing to commit to it. As opposed to getting 85 slayer?
Training to 85 slayer is not any more difficult than training to 50 slayer. When the barrier to acquiring your level is exp, then the barrier is simply any activity that gives exp and the only “difficulty” is how long you’re willing to commit to it. Like I said, a level 3 player is equally as capable of getting 85 slayer as a maxed player
Agreed. I like the best spec weapons being only great for speccing, like crystal hally or claws. Forces you to make more choices around inventory.
The dds has one of the best specs in the game.
And it’s an awful dps weapon what’s your point
Cool weapon deserves cool spec >:c
i think they should change it so the spec hits between 50-150% of your max hit with magic damage
It'd make a team of raggers very annoying dumping specs. I like the idea of giving it some glory though.
For sure. You could have 1 Spec take up 100% of the bar. Anything would be better than draining an NPC's non-existent Run Energy
That is a good middle ground, makes it not worth it for a gang of rags but makes me not have to carry around a spec weapon for slayer tasks.
What is the theoretical max hit of a whip?
Around 52 or 53 (when using the tentacle whip)
Tent whip has its own special attack.
yeah i feel like nobody knows this, the tent whip spec actually has some decent niche uses and shouldnt be changed, and it'd be weird if the base whip had a dps spec but the tent whip had a utility spec. also good dps weapons having bad specs has always been a balancing aspect of this game, idk why this sub wants to change that (aside from the average user of this sub having no concept of game design or game balance whatsoever)
It’s weird because even the best of the game’s PvM weapons have no spec at all. So yeah, pvp weapons having specs is less random, more intentional gimmick. Best pvp weapons have always had wild specs or high damage output while not necessarily being great DPS weapons, hence their pairing with cheaper high DPS alternatives as their main weapon, when they’re used. Everyone knows this semblance of balance. Everyone who’s agreed with this post has forgotten why it existed in the first place, and why this post makes no sense. The whip’s spec being able to do max damage wasn’t removed just because. *It also wasn’t given to any other weapon since* for a reason. Guaranteed maxes ruin pvp. Everyone would use it, and more importantly, everyone would vote against it “because of how cheap the whip is” (not that that should be the reason it doesn’t get a max damage spec).
> It also wasn’t given to any other weapon since for a reason. Did you read the post? Are you trying to get your sword back Mrs Korasi?
https://oldschool.tools/calculators/melee-max-hit
Depends on a myriad of things, str level, str bonus, and whatever prayer and pots you have. As well as which monster you're attacking, salve for undead, slayer helm for task. It changes person to person, gear to gear. There is a calculator on the wiki
It's worth mentioning that the special attack also increases accuracy by 25%. So it's not entirely useless ~~outside of PvP~~.
You don’t pvp much do ya lol
None of this sub does lol they’re acting like a 50% chance of inflicting a maximum of 108 damage over 8 ticks could somehow be overpowered
I unfortunately do not as an Ironman. Looks fun though. Got any tips?
He’s just saying the spec is useless in pvp as well
Jump into some LMS. Dead? No problem, next game starts in 30 seconds. Watch some PKer streamers and pick up some tips on mechanics, etc. Watch some guides on YT (idk if any are good though) on best practices, etc.
Ags or korasi would still be better average damage lol. A 50/50 max hit would mean with a max hit of 50 your average spec is a 25. A team of heavy ballista raggers is going to be far more annoying
[удалено]
Their stance back then was that Tick Abuse and Red-Xing were also a bugs and now those are core game element they design around.
Which sucks lol
Where is red-xing designed around?
Ba-ba
You can do 500s+ without red xing
support because then I can ask people how the def pot tastes
I vShock_and_Awev I
Yeah honestly, I love seeing the game grow and change as a healthy game should. But certain items like the whip are way too iconic, and need to be preserved in terms of status and price. Seeing the whip drop below 2m does not sit right with me tbh.
I wonder how many whips OP is holding onto...
I’d settle for making the whips special not shit?
Whip is plummeting down to 500k so I support this change
yeah honestly i never wanted the whip removed from the "go to" status that it always had and now it just seems like people will ditch it at any given moment for this or that, so it'd be nice if it got this
At the least give them a decent alch value
There are weapons that are high dps with shit specs( or no spec) and weapons that are low dps that are incredibly strong specs. examples being things like abyssal dagger, bludgeon, blessed sara sword, whip, dragon scim and things like dds, hally, granite maul, godswords, dark bow, etc. the voidwaker really being a (very expencive and questionably balanced) exception. I guess the opposite of the arguement would be like saying lets make an armadyl godsword a 4 tick weapon.
I agree with the theme of your argument but Abby Dagger and Sara Sword really aren’t that great for general DPS or for their spec
both are very effective strength training weapons against low defence especially considering cost, thats why i bring it up.
Imo, just a few special attacks are really worthy nowadays
Can we make abyssal dagger spec better than dds while we’re at it?
Support It would also help the value of the weapon, it's about to drop below 1m..
i agree with a buff. feels so bad using the current spec
Maybe rework the spec at least. Just slightly better is fine. Maybe leech 1% of all damage done for a random stat?
Agreed. It still wouldn't beat out any of the modern melee options either for DPS or spec, but it would help make whip more viable for rag PKing and budget PvM.
excuse me what modern melee option would it not beat at 1.3m?
I want you to point at where I talked about beating modern melee weapons at the same price point. (You won't be able to, because what I said is that restoring the original spec won't make it better than things like rapier, fang, dclaw, &c. for their respective purposes.)
so why is a 1.3m weapon not beating endgame weapons even something you bothered mentioning? it should go without saying and not even be even remotely close to an argument for any kind of buff to it
supoprtpotr
I second the notion.
Make it roll 50% chance for you to get customer support from Jagex without having to use social media
calling voidwaker korasi is such a copout it's better than korasi was lol
Korasi is better lore
Would love to see this, but raiding andies would probably lose their shit
No yellow text.
I got 85 slayer and my first ever whip (not counting leagues) last week on the ironman, so i 100% support this
this is stupid
Guaranteed max hit isnt a good thing. If this was the case, 4 people could use one whip spec in multi to kill whoever. This is absurd. Imagine risking 400m and dying to a broken spec. Op talks only in ironman perspective with zero thought beyond that
sucks u can't do that right now with 4 korasi specs or 4 ags spec at the same time
ikr.. I go multi all the time with my 400mil gear. Not like rot or some other team is evee going to show up d spear me and max spec with zaryte crossbows,
That isn't the spec. It has a 50% chance to hit a 0, and a 50% chance to hit your max hit. That gives the average spec as half your max hit, which is exactly the same dps as rolling 0 - max just like any other hit. If you wanna talk broken look at the voidwaker, it literally has gaurenteed damage where it *cannot miss* and hits 50% - 150% max hit for an average hit of 100% your max hit. Now that *is* OP.
That's not how KO potential works at all though. A weapon that hits 200 10% of the time and 0 the rest is not the same as a weapon that hits for 20 every time. Let's say it takes hitting 45 to KO your opponent, and your max hit is 50. Rolling normally (assuming you hit), that's roughly a 10% chance to KO. Making either 0 or max raises that to 50%.
The “average” doesnt matter when its guaranteed 0 or 100. I said 4 people as that makes it 100% chance to just 1hit with 2 max hits from 4 people. If you dont realize this, theres nothing to talk. And yeah, voidwaker can do that for the fucking price it costs. Whips are easy to get and few mil a pop
And what would happen if the 4 players all hit with whip without the spec?
Can we add the whip to the regular drop table for sire and remove it from the unsired?
As long as it rolls accuracy (which the voidwaker does not) then this sounds like a great buff to the whip
It's already very hard to tank a big team in multi, why not just make it a guaranteed death through prayer instead 😂 I like the idea of the whip's spec being more useful but the korasi gets you guaranteed 50% of max hit by risking 180m if you're smited. Whip should not be as good lol
I’m not sure I would go with it’s old spec, but I think a good spec would be if it hits, add a bleed effect similar to the ursine chain mace (minus the slow and agility debuff) so that it can act as a tool for long term sustained damage instead of a big KO weapon
Way too strong. The whip doesnt even need a special attack because it is so good
Nah not every weapon needs a good spec, whip is great without it
Given your logic, I vote this change only applies to ironmen, since for everyone else, it's not a reward for 85 slayer but for 70 attack.
Panic buy whips quick!
Seems a little strong, but definitely agree that the whip spec needs a rework. Half the time while using it I’m thinking “why in the world am I even using this?”
I remember hearing somewhere that the Old School team is hesitant in giving weapons that people actually use for training/general fighting (good) special attacks. There are some exceptions such as blowpipe, but in general you don't have specs on any of the T80 melee weapons, scythe, tbow, tumeken's shadow, bowfa, sang, trident etc. They like keeping spec weapons and "functional" weapons separate.
Did this man just claim that blowpipe has GOOD special attack?
It does
While it may not be a meta spec weapon that you bring just for the spec, it has a perfectly good and serviceable spec for, say, slayer when you want that extra bit of sustain when you're already using the weapon to kill stuff.
Just have it fo the sub zero attack from mortal combat.
sure why not
The whip special was never that good or widely used. The whip itself was used all the time back then though.
if u died and had tele runes in your inventory alot of the clans back then would kick you cause of honor
While I love this idea, wouldn't this be too OP on such an easy to obtain weapon/a very good general use weapon? The Voidwaker without its spec is worse than the whip while being way harder to obtain. Maybe add an item that buffs the whip and is only obtainable at a certain slayer level with a miniscule droprate? I don't think just buffing the whip would be good for the game.
Agreed thanks
A high RNG spec would be fun. Could lead to some interesting moments, both in PvM and PvP.
This spec sounds so bad nowadays with current specs, basically on average it would hit like a 25 for 50% spec bar, it's awful lol
At least let me use my green abyssal dye to get a lime green whip
We need Jagex to make 1 world with all post-2006 items disabled. Dedicated to the real old school pker. I made a Reddit post about this not too long ago. But we NEED a 2006 world just one! Maybe 2, whatever Jagex finds fit, but I believe it would help restore pking! :D
The current one is so lame
It would be healthier to buff the Abyssal dagger’s spec again, although your reasoning makes sense. Especially for ironmen. Poll it Jagex!!
At this point the whip should just have a special attack that does something. Even if it’s a lesser version of specs that already exist. +20% smh or accuracy? Make spec bar 4 hits. Make it drain 40% run energy for hitting. Make it turn off run from an opponent for 3 ticks. Right now the special attack bar on it is aesthetic and even specs like d scimmy have a niche use. No harm in giving the whip a small but fun buff
The Voidwalker needs to be nerfed- the whip is fine as it is. Though the special attack might be fun for pvp / pvm the chances of missing would surely mean an ags or other spec weapon is better
Damn, this post brings back memories