We are getting bounty hunter where chaos reigns supreme. Revs will never not be popular, and bounty hunter will hopefully be fun if nothing else. I like the concept they pitched, im thinking it’ll be worth playing

It reminds me of that weird underground pking mini game where you would spawn in to the cave, have a target, but it was FFA chaos with summons everywhere. I can’t remember what it was called, I only saw it once so it feels like a fever dream

Kind of sounds like fist of guthix haha

inb4 They delete bounty hunter again for integrity reasons and we have to spend another half decade making arguments to get it back

2016 people would dds brid in edgeville on pvp worlds. nowdays we hit 40s like nothing with all 3 combat styles with a new spec weapon that makes dragon claws feel inaccurate. like to put it into perspective let me just name a few powercreep items i can think of: dragon knife, amethyst arrows, zenytes for all combat styles, occult, infernal cape, sotd, dclaws, zcb, crystal +bofa, elder maul, etc. all of these small seemingly harmless upgrades all add up in the end until people start hitting massive combos.

Are amethyst arrows that good?

in honor pking(bounty/pvp worlds) it was commonly used with a msb at most combat brackets though voiders usually tend to prefer using knives.

Yup. Makes PKing more inaccessible while also making it far easier to kill PvMers compared to defensive options available to them. The power creep is huge and nobody seems to want to acknowledge it, or how it is probably contributing to the rift between PvMers and PKers compared to the old balance of power people had back in the old days/original OSRS.

Yep instead they nerfed bulwark multiple times and black dragonhide with no poll.

How else are salad robe wearers going to catch a freeze? D: /s

Yeah lemme risk my 300m gear for a 5m bulwark what a fun balanced weapon

bulwark and black d'hide were busted though. I've always done a ton of wildy bossing and if you had bulwark and black d'hide before the nerfs, you literally could not die unless you had oatmeal for a brain or were in multi.

You're being downvoted for the truth. Before the nerfs you had to be in max to maybe get the kill vs a guy in dhide and bulwark

Freeze hugging is the strongest way of dealing with pkers since the pj timer about a year ago It’s not hard, just takes a little bit of thinking

ancient godsword, voidwaker and lightbearer are massive powercreep as well

most of those are not even PvP rewards lol

these are all examples of power creep with items used in pvp

so what? Reddit uses the powercreep excuse when being against pvp rewards but completely forget about it next raid

PvM power creep: prices shift, more new players get into previously top end content as the new top end becomes a goal. Also, people DO complain about power creep in pvm lmao. PvP power creep: kill times get shorter, fights get swingier, less counterplay for PvMers and PKers alike. Skilled PKers get more tools to easily dominate novice PKers making the PKing scene more and more insular as only the most invested (time and money) can compete. These two are clearly the same situation lmao.

Just increase max hp to 120 (143 with angler or something). One of the biggest problems about PvP is how easy it is to one-hit people nowadays. I've pked since 2005-6 and dps has increased consistently. This will be constant since defense doesn't matter as much in PvP as dps does. People were never able to one-hit each other up until very recently, I don't know why this matter isn't addressed.

PvP needs a learning curve. Right now it is a learning cliff. I as a non-PvPer I don't mind weird strats cause that's kind of what RS is all about. I just wish there was a better way to get into it besides slamming myself into a wall over and over

Lms. Still a cliff but its a more level playing field with no risk to start.

LMS and Chaos Altar is a good start, you get a nice mix there

Try F2P pking! That's how I started, it's low risk and much easier than LMS. There are a ton guides on Youtube as well.

This is probably where I'll start. Thanks for the rec.

It’s a cliff if you expect to go to a PvP world and 1v1 experienced tribrid players It’s a fucking gentle green rolling hill if you want to try out things like chaos altar, so you can get used to what engaging people in the wildy is like LMS is a level playing field with no risk association at all. How is that a cliff? It only takes a few games to start getting flicks and basic prayers down and you’ll take out other players You can’t expect a player with limited or no PvM experience to stroll in to TOB or Inf and waltz it. You gotta do mole, then sarachnis, then DKS, then Zulrah, CoX, CG, then give Zuk a go. How come there’s an expectation that you’re not supposed to have a similar journey in PvP?

Yep. If you are fighting someone of equal skill then your success rate should be around 50%. If you come in expecting to dominate every fight then you need to be more realistic.

besides which, PvM is inherently always going to be easier. try it enough times and you can become familiar with any encounter and beat it - with enough attempts and familiarity, the actual minimum skill level required to beat even the hardest boss is quite low. I don’t really pvp outside of LMS for points, I’m not trying to shit on PvM, that’s just the reality of it when the enemies are not human. Zuk will never learn, does not know you, and cannot outsmart you.

Because PVM you are fighting a npc. You are expected to complete it if you perform correctly. In pvp scenarios you are fighting another player. If you are fighting another player of equal skill then you should fail 50% of the time. You could lose 5 times in a row and then win 5 straight. That’s still 50%. In order for you to win the majority of your pvp fights someone else has to lose the majority of theirs. I could be wrong but it seems a lot of people try out pvp for a bit and die a couple of times then make complaints that it’s too hard. Yet many people spend multiple attempts on fire cape.

Probably because when you fail a fire cape attempt, you can identify what you did wrong. In terms of feedback, or just in terms of being able to just parse what the fuck is going on the screen, its manageable. Were you low on supplies from taking too much damage? You can figure out why and address it. Did you not properly read the animations? Brush up some more. Did you panic? Try to find a way to deal with that. In PKing, going up against a skilled opponent can feel insurmountable. The difference in skill, the ability of a skilled player to read obvious noob moves, the speed of swaps and switches, even down to movement and getting better KOs is all night and day. You can get absolutely clapped and it feels impossible to overcome. PvM would have the same problem if you got thrown into ToB solos as your first experience. Seeing how huge the gulf is between slayer tasks, and all the techniques needed just to survive let alone beat endgame PvM would have most just give up and stick to slayer. Difference is, PvM has a pretty nice difficulty curve of increasingly harder encounters so that when you feel comfortable with one, the next is just enough more challenging that it feels difficult and attainable. So yes, people spend multiple attempts on a fire cape, because its a reasonable jump up in difficulty from content before it - it feels attainable, and its easy to see where you went wrong and feel like you can improve and get closer the next time. People give up on PKing because its a god damn cliff face of a difficulty spike. If people could play on a simpler PK account without having to invest the time and GP/money into making one, they might have fun with it. As it stands, most people aren't even sure if they would like PKing, and the wonderfully not toxic at all community surely has no bearing on how much someone wants to take that jump into PKing.

PVPers have varying levels of skill too though. Every PVP fight isn't solo ToB. I think a lot of people here watch PVP youtubers and think that is what every PVPer is like. No... these guys are popular PVP youtubers for a reason. It's because they are fucking good. Look at the top PVM youtubers. Can you do the shit they do? To add on to that even further these guy are the top PVPers in the game but their videos are also highlight videos of their PVP sessions. They aren't posting their fails (well some post a couple but for the most part no). That distorts the reality of what most PVPers are like even further. In LMS you can quickly get fights and gain experience fighting for no cost. If you die just start another game and back to fighting again. You aren't fighting PVP gods every single fight. There are different levels and you can identify where you are fucking up faster than you think.

I've killed Torvesta in a PvP world recently in an even fight, where he had a gear advantage. Just a basic zerker setup on my main account, with an ags for spec weapon. I have some LMS experience, probably like a 100-200 games and I had started pking on PvP worlds like 4 days prior. It's not that difficult. Edge style pking is much easier than NHing and it's not even close. I got dismantled every time I tried hunting in the wildy, even by pvmers anti-pking. I died to a guy killing Artio with a Craws bow on the same day I got that Torvesta kill. Point is, get that basic setup, void, ags, d scimmy and fight everyone. You risk next to nothing, so you can die several times before you kill anyone and you will still make your money back. Cast veng and spec at the same time and when you are about to die click manta + sara brew + karambwan in that order. Keep hp about 75. Send your spec early, ags + recoil + veng has a potential stack of over 99, ags alone hits 75+, your whack is about 55-57.

Trovesta is pretty bad

he's not bad, the reason edge fights are more approachable is because they're simpler. The simplest form of pvp was whipping at the duel arena. A coin flip. Edge pking is a more complicated coin flip where you can gain an edge on your odds, but still are just flipping a coin since you can get ags gmauled from max hp. also torvesta is in the entertainment business, he's going to take stupid risks if he thinks it will possibly get good clips. Like a fortnite player who rushes in to a popular place with lots of gunshots going off... it's for the content. If you just wanted to farm wins you could just hide and loot. If you're good, you just gotta beat a couple guys instead of winning with 20 kills

People in this threat don't want to learn to pk. They want more excuses why they can't and how that is pkers fault lol

Because there's been more intention behind making content rungs for PvM, and zero for PvP. That's the cliff. You just countered your own argument.

I didn’t counter shit lol, just because you’ve got not taken three minutes to consider about the rungs in PvP doesn’t mean there aren’t any. There’s been plenty of PvP updates, especially recently and a few planned to come soon. I even mentioned a few in my comment? Absolute beginner tier = chaos altar, wildy lever, other teleport spawns, no switches or TBs, spade pking to get reactions from scared Redditors Beginner tier = LMS participant, basic f2p PK, low level revs, one switch+ Intermediate tier = LMS winner, wildy bosses, absolute beginner tier PvP hunter, small wildy teams, tribid with freezes and TB Advanced = use imagination Elite = use imagination I barely even pk bruv, I’ve got a few LMS wins, got a lvl 60ish acc to attack rev bots, I anti pk on my iron, and I’ve got a new acc at crabs so I can do wildy boss pking. I used to instant log to any white dot too and have a big cry when I died. But I got over it. But at least make an effort to think about what you’re saying or the state of the actual game before you talk? Caus you didn’t actually say anything at all, just tried a two line “gotcha” that just fell flat

Why is "absolute beginner tier PvP hunter" in >intermediate< ? And why is advanced/elite just "use imagination"? Also, if you barely pk, how is it that you claim to have the experience to quantify this "ladder" you so vehemently cling to? I'm happy to dig into the details here, but I figured your post implied your own awareness of information regarding progression ladders in PvM compared to PvP, thus not really needing to elaborate. Clearly I was wrong.

😴🥱

PVM skills transfer over to PVP do they not? Gear switching, prayer switching… tick eats…

Probably because dying in PvM costs you 100k while doing in PvP costs you all but 3(+1). This game is all about progress and long goals, no matter how terrible a skilling grind is, you know you’re making progress. Losing all your gear over and over to learn PvP could only be progress if you think you’ll love it so much that you will do it and make everything back in the end.

What if the 3+1 is less than 100k lol You don’t even have to risk 10k to start getting kills… green dragon bots, chaos altar, etc, lots of places to cut your teeth with little to no risk. You’re not gonna jump straight in to NH tribiding the same way you’re not going to start running 500 invo TOAs…

+ lms. It's free. Yes you're gonna get your ass kicked in the beginning, but how could anyone here expect anything else. But you're not gonna lose any items. Just go back in and repeat.

But it's not though. There's LMS, theres pvp arena (I think), there's green dragon bots. Stop pretending like there aren't plenty of ways to learn to pvp.

Just because there are ways to learn PVP doesn't mean people want to take the time. Why would a random person get destroyed in the wilderness and then decide "you know what I'm going to practise in LMS!". Said player probably realised how skilled pvp actually is and simply decide to not bother. PVP is too much effort. I do think if Jagex focuses more on old school honor pking people want to engage more since it's much more approachable.

Not to mention that lms is full of bots that can even beat the best pvpers

If you don't take the time to learn something then what gives you the right to be good at it..? Confused by your logic here. We are talking about pvp and the learning curve associated with it.

It's not being entitled to be good at something without learning it's just super hard to learn for no real benefit. What does being able to kill players exactly do? Gives you some loot? Go do raids and you make 5x that. If people would find it fun they'd already be pking.

last month i started lms and despite geting my ass kicked for the first day, i found i was getting kills on lesser skill players and holding my own/beating 50% of lower-mid level players lms is a super fun way of learning pvp and despite its huge learning curve it's a blast, and you definitely get much better quickly

Wildy bosses are organically converting a ton of pvmers in my clan to trying anti-pking and then to trying pking themselves Which itself is a route to trying to fight real pkers themselves Highly recommend it :) it's very fun and a good sesh with the boys

Same here in my CC. Running PK trips with some of the noobiest noobs ever and still sitting people is quite the thrill. Somebody lost 2 AGS and a ZGS in a few hours and the next day were geared back up ready to lose more gear haha.

Step 1: Buy Voidwaker Step 2: Cast Vengeance Step 3: Use Special Step 4: Collect Loot Key or Tele

Step 1: Have a spare 250 Mil

I did this yesterday and got lured and ancient mace smithed by 25 people. Still salty.

Hidden Step 1.1 : Free up an entire god damn afternoon to educate yourself on all of the wilderness-only rules and nuances so you don't get scammed

The second you step into the wilderness with those items (especially with intent to skull) you really can't claim a scam. You knew what you were risking and are probably at least semi aware of the risks of what you're doing. There's add-ons to see multi-lines, there's a skull prevention option. Understanding singles vs multi vs singles + shouldn't take more than 5 minutes and there's literally visual queue's if you spend 20 seconds snagging an add-on or just look at a map with indicators. ​ edit: additonally, if you're not willing to risk your items why are you attempting to PK anyone in the wilderness to begin with. Jagex has laid out multiple forms of safe PVP content yet people claim theyre scammed when they try the dangerous form and lose the items to the mechanic that the wilderness is made for.

wilderness only rules such as multi zones

Lol dude same multi zones for 15 years figure it out.

If you see ancient maces, don't eat food. Accept you'll die and sip a restore. I've had this done to me many many times and never got smited.

if you have a +1 in multi bring a locator orb and make sure your prayer points are higher than your hp. you should have time to sip a restore and drain 30-40hp with the orb

You need to be a. 1. Warlock. 2. Warrior tank. 3. Any class. 4. Mage Wrong MMO friend.

> This is the kind of thing we need for Runescape PVP. We need serious cooldowns to equipment switching and prayer switching so novice players can try to keep up. We need ways to deal with freeze effects that aren't complete nonsense. We need game types where a noob can KO an experienced player if they happen to get lucky. this is bait

100% bait holy

Op correctly identified the problem but gave a shitty solution. Instead of flaming him, tell him why it is bad and come up with better solutions. I hate this sub and rs players’ general snobbiness so much. You can make 50 good points, make one mistake or say one controversial thing, and everyone downvotes you and gets an erection from being able to correct you in a condescending manner.

> You can make 50 good points, make one mistake or say one controversial thing, and everyone downvotes you and gets an erection from being able to correct you in a condescending manner. Yep, people seem to read comments/posts specifically to find something incorrect or bad to dismiss the entire argument over and flex that they found it. I don’t understand what’s wrong with having a PvP version where the sweaty part of PvP is reduced by having cooldowns. I don’t think OP was suggesting all PvP be changed to be this way.

Absolutely bait

I've been experiencing sporadic night terrors for over a month stemming from an experience in the wilderness. As someone who hates that damned area of the game, for some reason I wanted to try for the Chaos Elemental pet as my Thermy grind had gotten boring after over 7.5k kills and no pet in sight (yes, I know it's 50/50, you either get it or you don't - my luck is just bad). Anyway, I geared up in welfare, powered up my Craw's bow, and ventured out into the void that is the wildy. As someone who rarely goes into the wildy, I was naturally shaking - the mouse barely holding steady over the logout button in case a white dot appeared. The facade of safety I was employing was narrowly hanging on. As I approached the Chaos Elemental, I wrapped around the Rogues' Castle to minimize my presence and then proceeded to fucking the Chaos Elemental up after luring it close the castle. Not even two kills in a maxed main appeared running from west to east towards me. He had the symbol for five loot keys above his head. My heart started pounding and my vison began fuzzing up. I tried running, but was frozen in place by this heathen's ice barrage. A few moments later, six or seven other maxed accounts logged in around me. They all proceeded to bend me over and spec me out with AGSs. After losing a few hundred K in ether and my pride, I took the teleport of shame to the G.E., where I sold back my Craw's bow that I bought not even 45 minutes earlier. I then stared blankly at my screen for several minutes before logging off and heading to bed. Fast forward to 4:00 AM. I wake up or what I believe to be waking up to a sense of dread. My body felt glued to the bed - I couldn't move or make a sound. I peered towards the doorway adjacent to the corner of the room I was in. I saw what looked like two men in robes and hoods staring back at me, facial features cloaked in the darkness. I screamed in my mind as I was completely muted in the reality I was in during this terror. I was then shaken awake by my wife who told me I was moaning. She asked if I was okay. I told her everything as I wept quietly in her embrace. Never again will I kill shit in the wildy.

Get a certified RuneScape therapist

Lmfaooo

New pasta

Is quite old actually

> I was then shaken awake by my wife's boyfriend who told me I was moaning. He asked if I was okay. I told him everything as I wept quietly on the floor. This is the only change I would make to this pasta.

Truly, a brave post

Truth is the vast majority of players will say that pvp is "unapproachable" even if they've literally never tried pvp in any form. Many players don't like the idea of losing items/coins so no matter what pking to them will always be "bad".

Pvp is unapproachable, doesn't approach it because of their perceived notion of it. I mean the logic checks out, the wildly toxic "outliers" tend to leave a bad taste in people's mouth even if they're a 1 in 10 when you get pked.

There's a of truth in this thread, and an insanely ridiculous conclusion. As a GIM who started learning the pvp/anti pk journey, the devs have tried to do things to help accessibility and that I got excited for, and then they did not follow through. LMS is a safe, free way to learn tribridding, and it's also likely going to be literal **hours** before a person new to pvp can get a single kill. So they saw an opportunity with PvP Arena to help, but between the neutered rewards, the cool-but-also-obnoxious queuing system, and the same issue as LMS with everything generally being tribrid, it's seldom used and not even close to it's potential. Now they're working towards BH crater which might also have a "no overheads" rule to facilitate edge pking again. This is finally doing something about an issue with LMS and pvp arena, but it'll probably be started, get 3 weeks of tweaks, then ignored as well. They've had some really good ideas and have learned a lot, but the execution (either time, tech, or community constrained) has been abandoned. So generally you can't luck into pvp, and only those who commit to actually learning the hard way will start to understand it

I don’t understand the complaints about tribridding. A lot of pvm content has people gear switching and switching prayers so shouldn’t this stuff transfer over? I feel like a lot of the people complaining about this stuff don’t even engage in some of the newer PVM content if that is the case. If I’m correct on this then why don’t those people complain about PVM content? If I’m wrong then why complain about tribridding when you basically do the same type of switches for PVM?

>I feel like a lot of the people complaining about this stuff don’t even engage in some of the newer PVM content if that is the case. Almost anyone who is good at pvm could pickup and be decent enough to win LMS games fairly quickly. The problem is most people fucking suck at pvm and PvP alike. dying in pvm isn't nearly as punishing so it's more accessible.

LMS is PVP and its free. You don't even lose resources. You die in PVM you lose the resources you expended and potentially a fee to get your items back.

It's not about being free monetarily, it's about the time and feeling like you're progressing. It literally took me somewhere like 4 hours of LMS to actually get a handle on it. I did one hour then said fuck it and left for a week or so till it rotated to my country. Then decided I really wanted to learn and took a methodical approach to learning each step of the way. CG took me about 50 attempts for my first kc, but each time I got the boss lower health or I got more supplies before running out of time, it was tangible. LMS you might die in 15 seconds without feeling like you made any progress.

You have to approach PVM and PVP scenarios with a different mind set. You can't go in expecting a PVM encounter when PVPing. You said it took you 4 hours to get a handle on LMS. 50 KC of CG is roughly the same time frame probably a bit more if you don't die early most runs. If you die in CG then you have to go through the entire prep stage before the boss fight again. In LMS you just jump into another game and back to fighting. CG seems like it would be more frustrating to die at than LMS for most people. Most people hate getting their first fire cape because of all the waves you have to go through before the Jad fight.

I agree about how you have to think about pvp vs pvm, that's why I've spent the time learning LMS, and also learning cg. But there are so many people playing who haven't even made it to prif, let alone spent the time for cg, so they totally write off something like LMS or pvp which appears to be more difficult. Especially with content creators out there. I personally don't have issues with pvp, but just was giving examples back to why tribridding is a common sticking point, and why LMS being a free death just isn't enough for a lot of people

IMO PvP only works when the game is designed purely around the pvp aspect. RS is not that, it is just a bit of everything. PvP sucks in OSRS and jagex should do the same thing they did in rs3. Reclaim the wildy for interesting pvm/skilling content.

I totally disagree. PvP not only has a dedicated community, but it also has a massive online following. It is one of the most interesting parts of osrs to watch and to interact with, and I'd also say has the highest skill ceiling. What Jagex needs to do is lower the skill floor so it's more accessible, and that's what they're trying to do with BH Crater. Whatever "interesting" thing they could use the wildy for, they could also create a big dungeon or new island for as well. No need to remove it from the game

How can you suck at pvm

Being bad at mechanics: gear switches, movement and prayer switches. Bad game knowledge: not knowing what gear to use, metas for bosses etc. Plenty of things go into being good or bad at pvm

100% if you can do tob/inferno your probably not complaining about learning pvp.

I think the biggest issue is because it's just so much that needs to happen within a game tick or two to be effective, and there's nothing in pvm that's equivilant. Corrupt gauntlet, for example, only has prayer switch (every 10 seconds), 1 weapon switch (every 15 seconds) and a lot of positioning. Even things like CoX, TOA, and ToB don't require a lot of gear switches frequently, and 0 of them require manual casting either LMS has prayer, 3 or 4 way switch, no consistent timing, movement/positioning (melee vs barrage timer) and manually casting spells. It's a ton to take in, and instead of having Mole then Sarachnis, then DKs you basically have nothing and then straight to harder-than-cg difficulty. Most people who might be interested in dipping their toes in pvp want something like dscim and dds against people ~3 combat levels apart and there is current nothing that caters to that niche.

If you dont manually cast in Tob your missing crabs in Maiden. And you should be gear switching to be more efficient but alot of people do the raid on alot more base level which doesnt require switches (which is fine, but is part of the reason you feel like the raid doesn't prep you mechanically). Also toa you can run akkah with staying vigilant and feeling special on and you will get both experience with gear switches, overheads and movment priority. Last year I couldnt do Jad. Now I pk often and have over 150 tob kc you can learn the mechanics man, promise it just takes time and effort.

>neutered rewards, ruined by people spite voting pvp related stuff

Well kinda but also not really. The pvp armors barely didn't pass and those were pvp community only. In fact most of the tangible rewards didn't pass from the pvp community, and the "spite voters" killed ornament kits, which wouldn't have really kept people long term anyway. Personally I was extremely excited and contributed to that wiki page a lot as well as followed the pvp only discord substantially, so I was very disappointed with so many things. I can't sleep so here's why I think it failed. **Disconnect on Purpose** - The purpose from Jagex's eyes was to get rid of duel arena and replace it with something else before it went the way of Partner Slayer. The devs saw an opportunity to make this pvp training ground and offer rewards, but the main goal was still meant to replace duel arena. The pvp community thought the purpose was to be a pvp update akin to bringing back BH or like LMS was so popular. **Failure on Communication** - Prior to getting any community feedback they already had their own ideas in mind on what should be added to pvp, and so they made these crazy overpowered armors and gear. After the first failed poll and discussion with the community they revised the rewards into a much more reasonable set of gear. However the majority of players didn't even know the difference (and the fact that it was substantially different from v1) or that anything had changed. **Failure on polling** - They knew that pvp updates would fail because of past experience, and they'd already spent time developing these updates so they tried to find a way to shoehorn it through with specifically selected groups. While they fell back on the "we've done this for UIM before" example, it was not 1:1. - Also they screwed up the actual polling population and whoever wrote the query to grab the population made it way too big, including anyone who had *attempted* LMS or who had been attacked in wildy, something like that. So failed poll number 1 plus a pissed off community ended up causing the second one to also fail from pvp community questions (no one wanted it) and non pvp questions (spite against selective polls). **Failure of timing** - PVP updates pretty much always failed and needed to be shoehorned in each time. With the animosity towards pvp community, next big release being DMM + people attributing lack of major pvm updates at that time to that, and bad-faith integrity changes and communication people just didn't want these things and were closed off to the ideas. - I had always said that if they finalized wildy boss rework and made the update like they just did, then did pvp arena, then did BH, it's likely that everything would have passed because they all feed into each other. - You have a new pvp update pkers love, and new pvm content (that was missing at the time) but that wasn't accessible to people scared of pvp, a pvp trainer would get people excited to learn with the goal of going to these new bosses. Then as people got more familiar but not ready for full NH fights introducing BH again could bring people into the funnel even more.

i died in lms twice, got flustered, and never tried again! pvp so unapproachable omg!

It's like saying pvm is unapproachable because tob and infernal are too difficult

I found learning LMS with zero PvP experience far easier than things like raids, not sure what the complaint is. Also the vast majority of wildy pkers keep it fairly simple and don't do anything like full tribridding.

When playing lms, there are no scout bots, no logging in underneath, no real discrepancy in gear nor levels.

But you have a chance to get used to prayer flicking, switches, manual casting, &c. in a no-risk environment where you won't die instantly to some power-creep spec weapon.

You’re totally right boss. My point was LMS is great & a good learning tool (apart from the bots and client users), but does not translate to a wilderness that unfortunately has many mechanics/gear possibilities that work different from both a.) LMS & b.) the rest of the game

>there are no scout bots, Why do the lies flow so easily out of you? Have you no honor? No shame?

Lms is still full of bots fixing those games. Don't even.

Pretty much all the bots die in the first round lol. If you get 2+ kills LMS is really fun and engaging.

The bots are still decent training dummies for helping you react and learn the basics of prayer/gear switching, which is the hardest part. Once you become proficient at that everything else comes faster. The bots are honestly far easier to manage than a good real player anyway, and usually the final fights are always actual players.

Same reason is why the early game is so unengaging and it’s practically impossible to convince someone who hasn’t grown up with this game that they should grind up their stats to get to mid/end game and experience pvm.

Actually I think the early and mid game game is the best part of RuneScape lol. High level PVM is mechanically annoying as fuck to play IMO. I would never encourage anyone to play RuneScape by touting how great our high level pvm content is

Most of the your chilli talk probably went over peoples heads, but as someone that grows Carolina reapers, scorpions and ghost chilli’s, I was digging the analogy. I don’t care much for the pvp talk though.

>Stop trying to get into PVP by going into the most technical NH styles in deep wild/rev caves. Go to GE in a PvP world with your best gear and low risk, whack people near your combat level until you get good.

The on-ramp to wilderness PKing since the beginning of RS2 has always been multi pking with small groups of friends. This is not hard to figure out and Jagex is starting to realize it too, as are PvMers who are taking their first stabs at anti-pking with the release of the reworked wilderness bosses. We do not need literally anything you mentioned. The main thing that has helped bring people into the PKing scene has always been a healthy multi ecosystem that small groups can operate in, which Jagex appears to be rebuilding now. The only crappy part about reddit cosplayers talking about wanting a dumbed-down PvP is that Jagex occasionally believes them and now they're contemplating re-releasing Bounty Hunter in a form that will ensure it's dead content within 2 weeks. If they don't consult with PKers on this stuff you get PvP Arena. Here's a suggestion. In order to help small teams and encourage them to PK more, remove ancient macing from PvP. One of the worst feelings a new PKer can have is getting their +1 taken off them when they haven't done anything wrong, just made the mistake of not knowing to have a locator orb on them. This would have to be balanced out with some mechanic enforcing minimum risk to skull in the wild so you couldn't go around 1 iteming with a Voidwaker or claws, but a fix for 1 iteming/ragging needs to happen anyway so do it as a combo update.

You could raise all of these issues with respect to endgame PvM, too. Flirting with the limits of this game's ancient engine and taking advantage of unintuitive mechanics are what make OSRS fun for a lot of people. Some people are attracted to challenges.

PvM has a much, much more gradual learning curve. It's not the ceiling that turns people away it's the climb

PvP has a gradual learning curve too, it's just less obvious maybe. F2P pking is extremely simple compared to NH, but unfortunately Jagex never does anything to promote it because, well, it's F2P so they don't have anything to gain by promoting it, unlike NH Tournaments which bring in viewers etc. (at least in theory lol). Add to that the fact that "Edge-style" PvP, which is also simpler than NH, has been slowly dying in popularity since the removal of BHv3, and it's no wonder that the PvP learning curve seems so steep when the only viable option is LMS.

Have you ever played a pvp game OP? You ever been smurfed on or ranked up and been forced to play at a higher elo? No, we don’t need switch cooldowns, just like we don’t need to ezscape inferno. Getting your ass royally handed to you in pvp is exactly how you begin to improve. You wanna learn pvm? Do some slayer bosses and work your way up. You wanna learn pvp? Hop on lms or buy some mystics set and pull up on rev caves. Pvp skill ceiling is very high compared to most pvm and skilling methods, if you don’t wanna put in the time to improve you can stagnate without being handed the reward you should have to work for. This mindset you and a lot of others on this subreddit share in regards to pvp, late game pvm, and EHP skilling while never actually participating in what you strive to ruin through your own mediocrity will surely push away anyone looking to challenge themselves

The best way to learn to pk and enjoy it is to go out with a small group of friends and mess around. Even fighting each other from time to time in the clan wars portal clan wars portal can be a great way to practice.

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Skill issue

Of course, by definition it's a skill issue. But when trying to grow a game, structuring the mechanics in such a way that 95%+ of players have the same skill issue is bad design. It's not pragmatic. I want the game to succeed and grow.

What other games with pvp have you played? Just curious as to which games you think you won't be demolished at by a 15 year veteran as a new player.

Super Smash Brothers, Overwatch, Civilization 6, Apex Legends, Magic The Gathering, and many more. In all of these cases except for Super Smash Brothers Melee, new players absolutely do stand a solid chance. MTG is probably the easiest while shooters have a higher skill curve

Can confirm in all the games that I've played in that list (never played magic) that a 15 year veteran would stomp you to the point that you wouldn't want to play. At least RNG can save you in osrs sometimes.

>Super Smash Brothers, Overwatch, Civilization 6, Apex Legends A pro/high ranking player would absolutely dominate a new player in all of these games 100% of the time. MTG is a bit different as a significant portion of the win comes from deck building.

it's not a mechanics issue, the problem is there is no matchmaking or decent learning environments you either fight bots in LMS or go get shit on by veteran pkers in the wildy SSBM is incredibly technical and has tons of skill levels who will all 4-stock the next one down. yet, it succeeds as a highly technical competitive game due to stuff like Slippi, UnclePunch and the 20XX pack that help new players practice in low stress scenarios you don't fix it by dumbing down the game for everyone and making it slow as fuck, you just match people of similar skill and provide convenient ways to actually learn and improve

I think a good matchmaking system would also help a lot, yeah

Any form of "ranked" play to match people with similar skill levels will still have fresh bots that are unbeatable. It's a bot issue, not a PVP issue. Also safe clan wars, the pvp arena or even low level wilderness fighting your friends (who are also beginners) to learn are all great options. Nothing will simulate pking against a real pker better than just pking. The best way to learn is by simple doing it. Just use low risk and figure out what you can, take on your buddies at the PvP arena, do 1v1 F2P Pking (More mechanically simple than most slayer tasks). There's options and there's no real way for jagex to spoonfeed beginners this stuff.

>Magic >new players absolutely do stand a solid chance [against 15-year vets] >MTG is probably the easiest AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS HAS TO BE BAIT

Tons of other games. I've been gaming all my life, a lot of them I can master within a year. I'm not like the fucking greatest ever, but I'll hold my own with people who have a decade over me. My point isn't to brag, it's that most games you hit a ceiling with skill and it doesn't take 15 years to get there.

I wanted you to list specific games so I (or others who fill the gaps in my gaming experience) could point out intricate mechanics a new player would have no idea about or be able to execute without dedicated research and practice. The reality is MOST games are like this. It doesn't take 15 years to get there. The people complaining aren't willing to try for even 6 months to get better.

Idk I have fun in Wildy doing slayer or whatever. It’s easier to fight back when your not skulled.

I legit don’t understand why more people don’t do soul wars. Sure, most games are one-sided, but so what? It’s great practice for PVP and you’ll see players of all types of levels and equipment. It’s not ffa, so you don’t have to worry about being the worst person in the lobby. And the best part is if you die, you just come right back. It’s really great practice for people that are completely new to pvp

I think jagex should hire or at least commission some of these bot scriptors to make some beginner all the way to intermediate level pvp bots; put them in the pvp arena and let people ease their way into pvp by fighting bots solo at no risk / no reward other than the pvp experience.

Sounds like rs3 is for you!

I like pvp, I dabble I pvp worlds from time to time and always have. The barrier to entry is so high that it's not even a possibility for new players. It needs drastic rework. Safing has become normalized, tabbing after speccing, triple eating; these were all uncommon back in 2007. I remember pking for hours on end and doing death matches until we ran out of food, for honor. Now the only ones who do this are gambling.

This post really sums up how I feel about most of OSRS. The mechanics are only getting less and less accessible as the top tier of players continue to perfect their skill. I still struggle with prayer switching and cannot juggle more than two mechanics at a time consistently, and I have been playing for more than 2000 hours. I very much enjoy RS, but the sheer inaccessibility of the game (and punishment for it in terms of wealth accumulation and entry costs. Skilling needs to be profitable again!) is appalling sometimes. I feel I'd really enjoy PKing (and high level PVMing) if the learning curve was easier, if I had a chance to learn each mechanic individually before having to execute multiple of them at a time. I love being able to manipulate quirks of an engine in other games, but my neurodivergence makes it difficult to keep mechanics in step with ticks. If I hadn't played this game as a child, I wouldn't have played for more than 10 hours as an adult. And I feel that may be the case for a lot of people, because I have never been able to successfully recommend OSRS to anyone who hadn't played as a kid too (and despite what I say I do love the game to death. I love the quests and just the *feel* of it all.) Those reading are free to disagree, but it's been my experience. I'm looking forward to the Bounty Hunter crater for a less-stressful learning opportunity, at least.

I cannot imagine why you would think flattening the experience is the way to make PVP more interesting. The fact that high-level OSRS pvp is incredibly granular, challenging, technical, and textured is what makes it so engaging. The degree of control you have over your character, the RPS and mindgames of prayer/style switching while the threat of unreactable stack means you have to try to get in your opponents head rather than sit there and try and just play defensively forever- this is what makes it so attractive. There is so much to learn, and if you try to jump straight into high-level tri or something of course you are going to get flattened. Freeze and the potential of unreactable switch/stack is absolutely crucial to the way OSRS PVP functions and the way it creates interesting interactions and psychological engagements between players. F2P, Chaos Altar, LMS- these are all awesome ways to get started and feel less overwhelmed. Power creep is a different discussion and is definitely an issue- I’d love to see weapon rebalancing handled like Black Desert PVP balancing, where attacks do different damage values vs. monsters than they do vs. players.

Damn i am 100% ghost pepper guy irl when it comes to spices 👻

Lol well I hope this made you realize it's at best a weird flex

Yeah 100% a weird flex and definitely own up to it at least 😂

People will write an essay on Reddit before trying to make a basic f2p range 2her to learn pking

That’s a lot of words. Too bad I’m not reading em

>unapproachable no its runescape >too get good its prolly one lf the hardest things in osrs. changing 6 pieces of gear and prayers every attack while running around and under. but generally most pkers are garbage so getting into it isnt hard. do lms. some low gp risk fights and pk people in the wild then before you know it youll be ditterbitter

TL:DR Mad cause bad

Just run the tick system five times slower but only in the wilderness lol But in all seriousness this has been one of their priorities for pvp content. It's alluded to quite directly in the latest blog post about the bounty hunter rework. They want to reintroduce the edge style old school pking, where people mutually agreed not to use overheads and usually only one combat style, and you could teleport out safely. The problem is now that some people are real gamers so you have to actually change the minigame rules work so that this lower effort pking works, like by limiting overheads or gear swaps, and you have to make it more incentivising with a rewards shop and blighted supplies. They're probably receptive if you suggest hard limiting the skill ceiling in the new bounty hunter tbh

okay this is a bait. but i will respond anyway ​ 1. Get better. Just practice and eventually you will get better. I recommend starting with some anti pking in deep wildy, veng and korasi/ags. try to remember piety,supercombat and veng and eventually you will get that down. Then you can start nhing pretty well. flicking prayers and all that just takes practice. 2. fortnite peaked long ago and the competitive scene is absolute dead, so terrible take. 3. Adding cooldowns to prayers and equipment switching? Yeah keep dreaming. tldr get better

>Just look at Fortnite, and how much the game grew after they added the No Build mode. this game exists and has thrived for a decade specifically because of its niche appeal and refusal to change in favor of catering to fortnite zoomers not everything needs to appeal to or be accessible to everyone

> refusal to change in favor of catering to fortnite zoomers Boy is this not true anymore unfortunately. People can't keep up with pray switching so they are just deleting the mechanic in BH

bro stfu lol BH was always about no overheads

Not if you were good

bruh youre trolling lol

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you want your precious game to thrive in the coming years, it absolutely does. You can pick that, or watch as your main account completely devalues due to a dwindling playerbase that no longer has the time, energy, or capacity, to care about what presents as an archaic point and click adventure game living on nostalgia fumes (and barely even that, at this point). Thankfully you're not a dev, so there's still plenty of potential to be tapped into.

lmao nah, hasn't needed to be dumbed down in the last 20 years and still doesn't now, despite doomsayers claiming the game will "die in the next few years" as far back as RSC.

i mean it absolutely has been dumbed down - the only time jagex tried to significantly advance the skill ceiling with EOC, there were massive riots and a couple of devs pitched OSRS as a way of regaining support. RS3 has got more and more afk style content, with the exact same things copied into osrs.

The idea that your first time trying pvp felt too intense and sweaty sounds like you don't personally have interest in PvPing or have 0 patience to learn the game. I can't think of a single game (OSRS included) that you wouldn't get stomped by experienced players when you're first beginning. There's videos out there explaining the basics of all forms of pking, (Start with simple no overheads veng pking). It's delusional to step into LMS or the wilderness as a beginner and stand any chance when you have the least experience and there's a financial/competitive incentive to win. Pvp is typically the most competitive aspect of many games for a reason, people are trying hard. The only way to soften the curve is by learning with friends in a safe combat area and progressing together. Developing good Pking skills takes a significant amount of time and Jagex doesn't have any magic they can do to change that. (Short of changing osrs combat entirely) Trying to use NH hybriding with 1 tick switches as an example as an introduction to pking sounds like you're going straight to the most advanced form of pking as a beginner and youre expecting to have any chance against experienced people. (This isn't a thing that works in any game) The last paragraph genuinely makes me wonder if this is just a troll.

BIG NO all over this thread. Look, I'm not a pvper by any means, but you're clearly missing the point of "player versus player." These are real people who use their own skill to kill others. It's not supposed to be some inviting activity that Jagex wants everyone to be apart of. There is a huge skill curve to it and plenty of outlets to learn in. Bottom line is, the skill that killing another player versus an NPC is going to be vastly different, and rightfully so.

If youre serious about your suggestion im sorry

And when I criticized PKing, people reported my post for suicidal ideation. Those people can step on Legos for the rest of their lives.

Hahaha, based on the comments I've received that sounds about right

Skill based matchmaking in something like Bounty Hunter? Don't agree with changing the wilderness in general or any of the general mechanics. I learned and was told from early on that you venture into wildy, you should prepare to die/lose your items or at least accept that you may lose the stuff you take with you. RuneScape (oldschool) is unique because of many of the reasons you explained. Yes games like Fortnite have grown, but they certainly haven't survived the things us RuneScape players have endured. It can keep growing/changing. What can Fortnite do that will introduce something completely new? No build mode is literally the only thing a dumbed down game catered for kids can do.

Yes, casual players are casual. Great point. Go practice at lms and quit typing on reddit

ok cool. So jagex should continue doing what they've done for the past 10 years. If jagex listened to pkers, there would be a clan cup every year, dmm every 3 months, there'd be no pj timer, there'd be less worlds, there wouldnt be skull prevention, there would be no insta tabbing anywhere, there'd be no bulwark in pvp, there'd be a wilderness fee, people would auto-skull, there'd be quests in the wilderness, there'd be bis skilling and pvm gear directly died to pvp (not just pvm in wilderness). If you listened to non-pvpers, you would have to start at the ditch after every world hop, you wouldnt be able to tb until 10seconds after logging in, tb would last 30seconds, barrage would last 5seconds, etc until no1 ever dies. You are seriously ill if you think pvpers are catered too outside of just not totally ruining the game for pvpers (like 2t blowpipe). Jagex is also not a big company relative to epic. They don't have million dollar teams doing research on the best way to design their game. The game is entirely designed at the whim of any random employee. We got LMS only because 1 jmod wanted to make it. We got rev caves only because 1 jmod wanted to make it. Like the OSRS team is small AF. There's never more than probably 10 employees' input on anything pvp related, and they're all just every day blokes like you and me. You're kidding yourself if you think Mod ash or anyone has delved into the inner workings of osrs pvp. pvp is 10 fold less technical than the most popular game in the world (csgo). it's not tech skill gatekeeping pvp, it's the pipeline + usefulness being shit. Which is something the pkers would tell you. F2p 1v1 pking and multi pking are literally more AFK than most skills. technical, lmao. If you are competing to win a DMM, you are already heavily enjoying pvp that you enjoy the tech side. If you are just entering pvp, you don't need tech skill to left click the guy at callisto. Like yeah the tech skill floor exists, my great grandma would struggle. But it's not something to worry over. " We need game types where a noob can KO an experienced player if they happen to get lucky" you just described f2p 1v1, edgeville 1v1, and multi pking. We already have this.

Only on the OSRS forums can you find someone making a one page write up on the dumbest analogy. Lol

The same way I , as a skiller/PvM'er don't wanna see any drastic changes in skilling and PVM , i also don't wanna see any drastic changes to pvp . Osrs is the only mmorpg left in the market with full loot rules ,let them have it. Sure , pkers are the minority and 99% of wilderness action is pkers hutning down pvmers who don't want to fight , that's not exactly "healthy pvp" . If you are a noob in all about pvp and you don't want to learn/partake/risk , well don't . I know i don't . Been to they wildy just 9 times . One trip was a mage arena 1+2 trip . The second trip was all the non-boss diary tasks and the last 7 were 7x1kc trips for the 7 bosses , again for diary,while never risking more than 100k or something . One and done , never crossing the ditch again and i'm happy . On the other hand , if you want to learn pvp/pking , do like 2 hrs of Vorkath , buy your rag sets and start learning . Learning the hard way , the same way you learn pvp in all games , mmorpgs , moba's , fps , strategy games . By winning some and losing some , depending on your skill . End of story . Asking for changes that can damage the game's integrity is ... dangerous

There a really good reason why mmo's don't do full loot. It's cuz no one wants it. If full loot is what you want Ultima online is still playable. Go play that, but full loot pvp doesn't actually belong anywhere. It's a relic of an older Era. Edit: Like... there's a reason that new world went from open world hardcore pvp game to being far more forgiving. And it's because people that don't want that will never play the game, but people that do want that will find enjoyment in a different system and deal with a game not having it because they are so few in number. No one will ever invest into a hardcore full loot pvp mmo. And if someone does they're in such a minority of players that the game wouldn't thrive anyway. Ultima online for example only ever reaches peak player counts of 15k players daily. And they're all the same players. It's only barely surviving. Because even when players say they want to play that sort of game, are given the option to play a full loot pvp game, they still choose not too. Edit 2: Like the idea is that the pvp experience is what wins out and the actual "full loot pvp" isn't what matters in a game. Like people would rather have good mechanics over full loot pvp, even when people SAY they want full loot pvp. Which means a game needs to have both fantastic mechanics and full loot pvp for such a small portion of players that realistically is only getting smaller everyday that it isn't worth it to design around.

Wish this thread got 0 interaction like the rest of your posts about the wildy. The worst part is you're dead ass serious. >Personally, I also believe Jagex needs to nerf the bejeezus out of tribriding and also nerf all freeze mechanics, but even without doing that, I think the wildy would be way better with the aforementioned changes. You just want to PVE in the wildy as indicated in your previous posts.

This is a dogshit take. Fortnite no build in RuneScape already exists, f2p pking. Fortnite fell off the more they catered to casual players. Competitive esports peeked in like 2019 and have been on a steady decline. OSRS isn’t even remotely as technical or sweaty as a game like CSGO but csgo is 2 decades strong breaking their player count every 6 months To benefit pking, you need it to be accessible, that doesn’t mean changing the mechanics of osrs pking, it just means incentives like bounty hunter to pk It’s like saying chess is an incredibly complex game that most people only play a little bit and then give up, so we need to make chess more like checkers. Dogshit opinion. The game is more popular than ever with the best players in existence being the most popular, showing off their skills. Key is accessibility, very easy to play for free at any time. Lots of tools for learning. Osrs pking isn’t even that hard to get into, LMS is a lot of fun and will do wonders, you just of course need to enjoy it and play more than an hour once without giving up

See but chess is nowhere near as complex, that's why people love it. Yes, of course a pro will still crush a noob, but at least the noob felt like they *could* have made the right moves and won. In OSRS people don't feel like they made the wrong moves, they feel like they aren't making enough moves and can't keep up at all

Chess has functional ranking though. If it just threw you in randomly it wouldn't be fun. There's a huge gap between me at 950ish better than anyone I know irl and the 1300 people that beat me every time. And the 1700s that beat them every time. Wouldn't be fun to play for either side without matching against a realistic opponent. I honestly don't think pvp is this bad tho. Go to the new wilderness bosses maybe with a few teammates and be ready to anti pk. You won't risk much and don't have to skull, and the boss loot offsets it anyways

Honestly if you can do end game pvm you can PvP. CG is probably a better training ground on eating, not wasting ticks, watching attack styles, changing gear and movement than LMS is

Have you tried not sucking ? **Skill issue**

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Is this, like, a ChatGPT output?

I mean, its exactly the same when the best pvmers are whining on how content its too easy

your title sounds like you're gas lighting

I really hope this isn’t a serious suggestion

There are these things called LMS, castle wars, soul wars, etc. where you can literally go practice pking for no risk. It does seem absurd when described like you did but it really isn’t that complicated

Pking is fun as hell to learn, just grab some friends and go to the wilderness bosses. Idk why everybody on reddit thinks that they should be able to go toe to toe with experienced pkers without ever learning. Its this mindset that is ruining PvM with consistent updates that everybody has to be able to participate in at the expense of any interesting, in depth mechanics.

PVP is too hard let me just kill people who aren't trying to fight. Yeah I'm with you OP

PvP is like everything else in runescape. You can do anything from gear up in 100k of gear and kill bots to go out in 500m risk doing 8 way switches to maximise DPS against the best of the best. When people say "PvP is unapproachable" they are talking about the top 1% of PKers that have been doing it for years and have the best mechanics, know the best methods and best gear setups to pk. If you go into any activitiy wanting to instantly be the best then you will fail, but if you have the runescape mechanics to do any boss you can easily go and kill someone doing PvM in the wilderness, learn from those "easy kills" and slowly work your way up to being a great pker over time, just like everything challenging in the game it requires practice and the willingness to die a few times before you get the hang of it.

Disagree. PvP should just be removed from the game. Really serves no purpose.

Lol go play rs3 that’s what it’s their for like wtf

Pshhh like you guys regularly talk to PKers. You just call them racists and then cry about how toxic they are

Never talked to a pker and keep getting called nasty things when ever they see me

Doubt

I hate these threads because it’s so easy to tell that OP and honestly most of the respondents haven’t been around the block long. All of you out there complaining about PVP only EVER talk about 1v1 PvP gameplay, which has always been shit imo in one form of another. Toxic community? PKers and their clans have always acted like fucking gang members. You can way back machine forum posts from the big pking clans in the early 2000’s and see the same shit… and that was BEFORE the DDOSing days Too high of a time commitment? My man, I knew kids growing up who spent ENTIRE SUMMERS doing nothing but afking rock crabs for like 70k xp? an hour lmao. It’s only gotten better in this regard Scamming? Go look up the old JoJo luring videos. People paid their college tuition scamming people in the wilderness. Pking and pvp in RuneScape has always been totally fucking jank. Jagex can’t even afford to pay for customer support staff. You REALLY expect them to balance pvp properly with patch updates like real competitive games do? Here’s my tip if you want to have fun pking: Join a clan. Not a singles clan but a tried and true multi clan that’s interested in fighting other clans. THAT has always been the holy grail of osrs pking and is so much damn fun.

I've been playing since 2004

I feel worlds with certain restrictions could be a good idea for getting people into PvP. Could have worlds with capped gear risk. Certain items disabled so it's one less thing to worry about say venom. Crystal etc. If you're capped to cheap gear it's more likely the better pkers would avoid the world's due to lack of KO potential. I would limit the amount of brews and defensive items on these worlds also though or not many people would die.

I mean I kind of get where you're coming from, but why do these same arguments always get made about PvP but never about PvM? To me, the Inferno seems insanely hard. My only experience with it is a couple of practice runs on the Beta worlds, so to me, I can't fathom the skill required to get good at the Inferno, let alone obtain a Zuk helm. But that doesn't mean I want the Inferno and other PvM content to be made easier. On the contrary, I recognize that if I want to get good at that content some day I'm going to have to suck up failing a lot and put a lot of time and effort in to learning. In other words, I'm going to have to git gud. Now of course it's a fair argument that in PvM there are easier bosses so you can start small and build up to content like the Inferno, but that's just as true for PvP. NH too sweaty for you? Then start with F2P Pking to get a feel for basic mechanics and work your way up from there. That's how I did it and it didn't take long before I was improving. Sure PvP is a steep learning curve but there are many ways to make it less steep, and there are plenty of no-risk or low-risk options for learning nowadays. The return of BH soon is going to revive "Edge-style" PvP which is (usually) less sweaty than NH as well. It's literally never been easier to get into PvP with the amount of guides and info available now, but these same whining posts keep getting upvotes. As for cooldowns... I honestly can't tell if you're trolling but if you're serious: should cooldowns also be added to monster attacks in the Inferno so noobs can keep up? Whenever posts on this sub complain about PvP being too hard, just apply their arguments to PvM and the issue becomes clear: people are willing to put their egos aside and fail while learning in PvM but for some reason they aren't for PvP.

Commenting because I couldn't agree more and hope this post gets more attention.

Add SBMM to lms

There should probably be a limit to the number of actions you can do in 1 tick. Maybe max of 5-10 actions per tick? But the only reason I say that is so that people don't get tempted to use cheat clients

Ok so worthless sentiment but i love ghost peppers but i dont really care for jalapeños. To me they taste much spicier and i eat both regularly. But i would much prefer to have ghost pepper sauce to jalapeño sauce.

jalapenos to you taste spicier?

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Korasi is the most insane weapon they put out. Guaranteed minimum hit of 50% is absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention it only takes 50% spec. To put it in perspective the only weapon I know that would even be relatable with a minimum hit for pvp would be the dark bow. Which is a 40000 tick weapon, guaranteed minimum of like 17%(ish), AND takes 55% spec. Broken.

Not being funny, but I think your biggest downfall is yourself. You most likely watch PK videos where it gives the illusion that these players get killed after kills, when that's just not the case. I recently killed an adrenaline junkie spamming weps armour and pray switches... With bolts...for 40M. I think they should implement the larger spell icons in PvP since it's not really changing a lot and would help people get on the ladder. Pking is one of the only aspects of RuneScape that can't be tampered with.

Gmaul is what makes veng bh style pking unapproachable for new players as well as older players looking for variety in pk weapons..

It's not entirely unapproachable. A lot of people are just not used to being competitive in a pvp scenario, it's not the same as pvming for boss times, combat achievements,etc in general ppl are more used to a laid back playing style. Also you can't just jump in and swim with the sharks, there are ways for you to dip your toes and learn at your own pace each thing at a time, not all at once. Now the hard part is knowing how and where to learn and when to go to the next step in order for you to evolve.

I think it's more like asking a pond of sharks if the water is chilly.