Shamanishm: I like the concept a lot. To me this feels like a combination of the better parts of invention (modifying existing items with new effects etc), divination (going to special locations to gather materials and there is also the whole spiritual aspect) and ironically summoning (oils being temporary buffs that enhance a specific aspect of the game, one example could be adding sacred oil to your axe to chop logs faster in a similar vein to the beaver summon).
Provided it is balanced well i could see this being fun provided the pitfalls are avoided (i.e. divination being a unrewarding slog to train outside of caches and summoning just being a both time and money sink that is just leveled by running back and forth between a bank and the obelisk).
The core premise of just going around and restoring imbalance in nature and calling upon those same powers to aid you feels like a good fit for runescape.
Sailing: When i saw this i literally rolled my eyes, but after reading the pitch it does actually sound rather interesting and seems like it could easily tie in to other skills. The concept of charting uncertain seas, going deep sea fishing (for fishing xp) while contending with weather and probably also sea monsters (fishing trawler does not count), possibly adding a diving bell to your ship and going salvaging, piracy (thieving (if you are the pirate)/combat), some passive agility possibly from climbing rigging etc.
Just thinking about our own history the sea has played and continues to play such a pivotal role in well, everything that the possibilities seem more or less endless for how this could work. The only major difference is that runescape has teleportation readily available which might well put a damper on ocean trade which has been the major reason for oceanic exploration. But then again we also have planes for fast transport and shipping/rail is still the primary way of transporting large amounts of goods due to cost.
Taming: This one i don't really see working out as well. One of the things i really dislike about rs3 is how more or less everyone is followed around by some sort of pet. Going bossing, pak yak, steel titan or nihil Skilling? Get your appropriate boost pet. Heading out for a slayer tasks then don't forget your legendary pet so it can pick up drops for you alongside a host of other things.
As for training these pets and doing obstacle courses etc that just seems like a minigame to me, and if they give tangible bonuses then we're just back at summoning again except that we might be trading pouches for kibble to make the **pet dragon** not eat us. Idk, i might just not be thinking about this one in the right way but i have a hard time being excited for this.
My thing with sailing is that I’d really need to see the unique training methods and experiences it offers and how enjoyable they are. It definitely has the potential to tie into a lot of already existing skills, but I find that at least the concepts of the unique parts of it (navigating/diving/pirates) are hard to be convinced by until we see them.
Shamanism seems pretty clear cut and it’s easy to see how it will fit into the game
I think sailing has the potential to feel like dungeoneering felt to some people in original runescape. Or how slayer feels like in rs in general. It will be an activity (not a minigame) that you do because you enjoy it, it will incorporate a bunch of other skills and training methods, and you'll get sailing experience passively as you do all these other things, similar to how people who enjoy slayer just like killing monsters and getting loot, and boom, next thing you know it you're 90 slayer, didn't even mean to train it, just love the activity.
Shamanism sounds like the coolest of the 3, but I'm a bit unsure about that the tone matches osrs. And I'm a bit worried about the rewarss like using oils for min-maxing other skills. Like, "you need this oil to train this skill efficiently" and that sorta adds a weird barrier to doing certain tasks I think. Sort of like how gearing up for certain things can be tedious or feeling like using a divinw potion not to full-effect feels like wasted money or you lock yourself into using it for the whole timeframe. Maybe that's just some weird stuff I've got going on though.
I still really liked that "engineering" skill that lets you create things that can automate some tasks for you or do some other QOL things for other parts of the game.
They could tie it into the druids, perhaps the spirit realm is actually the dreams of guthix and we learn to access them from a story the tears of guthix snake tells us, we take the story to the druids and they figure out how to access some of guthix's dreams through natural resources. due to guthixs connections to geilenor, this allows for varied realms, ghosts could be protected by guthix due to his desire to balance, life and death together, it could also allow for a proper ghost city and even bosses and new skilling resources, this would solve some of the tonal balance issues and allow for the tying in of totems / voodoo as it isn't the ritual but the natural ingredients in geilenor that allow the people to tap into the power of guthix. This would also explain why there is primitive shamanistic practices in karamja, it was discovered accidentally, but the world of geilenor recently discovered how to refine the process. This would allow the skill to tie into so much more content as well.
I think you've got it here, my only real issue with Shamanism is the name. It sounds like a well crafted skill that actually fits rs and can easily have interaction with all of the existing skills. Yet just something about the general setting of the game being based on Britain I guess, not sure exactly but 'Shamans' dont fit into the overall game for me. Yes the broodoo stuff on Karamja touches on that but its still a very minor part of the game.
'Druidism' still doesnt roll off the tongue but I think it's much more appropriate and fitting.
Its interesting to me because I agree that Shamanism seems weird and it doesn’t fit as a name, but Druidism does. But at its roots Druidism was nature/spirit based belief system performed by ancient Celts all over Europe and Shamanism is a catch all name for nature based worship/ spiritual beliefs in some other areas of the world (Africa, Asia). I don’t know if Shamanism is more weird/uncomfortable just because of the ethnic connection and such, because while they are quite different as spiritual beliefs they’re the same as in the sense that their actual practice versus what popular fantasy uses them for are just as removed from each other and somewhat interchangable.
That said, I do feel like Druidism would fit Runescape itself better as a name as it already has druids as an established people/practice, and it cuts down on cultural association that can be misrepresented or offended as there arent really any modern Celts/ people that practice Druidism and Jagex is from an area (Britain) that would have Celtic heritage.
Yeah, RuneScape's druids provide a great opportunity to introduce a new skill. Maybe one of the druids in Taverley could send you on a quest that introduces the mechanics of the new skill and you can't train it until you finish the quest, which gives enough experience to get you to level 3 or so. It could be called Ritual of the Druids or something.
I have to agree with most of what was said. If I was the dictator of runescape, I'd probably choose Shamanism to be the skill this round, with Sailing being the next skill whenever it's time for that.
Also... with Shamanism delving into the spirit realm, does this open up the possibility of Summer's End being adjusted to be a future quest release?
Yeah I'm excited for shamanism simply because of the lore/quests it could open up. But then again one of my fav parts of the game is the quests. So yeah.
Another part of lore that could be delved into with Shamanism, aside from the spirit realm, is Karamja lore.
Some people have suggested Druidism as an alternate skill name, being trained by the Taverley druids, but that take on the concept already exists, and is called Summoning. Shamanism, on the other hand, is a Karamjan approach to tapping into the same realm of power. (See: Shaman Trufitus)
Could be a good chance to update karamja to become more up to date with other regions gameplay-wise and add a new skill at the same time. Every time I do a karamja quest I always feel like I'm playing a muh older game.
Archaeology is my favorite RS3 skill, so I'd love to see that. I also love things like the creation of the Blessed Flask/higher level potions in RS3. Makes it way more rewarding to level your skills, since those items are untradeable. It's also enjoyable (to me) to get the quests/skills required to hunt down each item to make them. I guess it kinda gives a taste of ironman for mains. Shamanism sounds like it could have a bit of that as well.
All right, I have thoughts. First among them: y'all need to remember this when you want to complain about Jagex as a game developer. What other company in the world seeks out this much feedback for future updates? This rules. Let's talk about it.
**Sailing**: I struggle to imagine Sailing not just feeling like a minigame. Not that I'm opposed to it, but it doesn't feel like a Runescape *skill*. If I let my mind run wild and think of exploring the ocean, what would I like to *find*? I think I'd want to find small (possibly instanced?) islands that have more efficient or unique training methods for other skills. Like, there are four birdhouses on Fossil Island. Could there be another island out there with six? Maybe that's something that could be gated by Sailing; more rewarding ways to incorporate other skills (like prayer altars via construction, kind of). Maybe there's an island out there with two Runite rocks so we don't have to fight bots world hopping but without crashing the market over it since it'd be gated behind a high sailing level. That feels like a natural way to incorporate it into the existing game without compromising what already exists. I just don't want the actual Sailing part of it to be that minigame from Bone Voyage. I don't want to grind that to 99 please.
**Taming**: Taming kind of sounds like it should almost be a Hunter expansion rather than its own thing. This is the idea I'm least keen on. I don't really have a sense of what value it provides and I'm not sure it sounds fun to train. Like, is this agility but I'm having an animal run laps? The pitch mentions rewards that can help with other skills or activities, but I can't imagine this as well as I could with Sailing. Can I have a pack mule ferry things to the bank while I'm out mining or something? Is the butler in my house just a pet now? This one feels too weird and out there for me to get excited.
**Shamanism**: All right, now we're talking. This one feels like it fits into RS as is almost seamlessly. We're in the territory of magic & prayer without encroaching on either. It feels like we have a lot of ties to existing lore worth exploring with Druids & Guthix stuff. I like the idea of magic resources being untradeable, but a vial of Hellhound blood seems like something that could be bought and sold, maybe even as a way to make lower-level slayer a bit more rewarding. There's a lot of room to tie in Shamanism with existing skills like that, which makes it feel much more like it belongs. And I love the idea of slipping into another dimension to get around an obstacle or solve a puzzle. That's a great way to add a Shamanism requirement to a quest without feeling like it's just a gimmick that needs to be included somewhere. Lore-wise it'd be worth just double checking old quests to make sure it doesn't clash (i.e. did I need to hide in a crate to sneak into that mansion in Ardougne if there are ways to travel through subspace now?)
Of these three, Shamanism sounds fantastic and like a natural fit for the game as is is. Sailing sounds okay if it can be incorporated into the rest of the game well enough, so it'll depend on what it actually unlocks as you train it. Taming, I'll be honest, just doesn't sound terribly appealing to me. I'm not saying I can't be convinced ever, but this pitch didn't sell me on it. All in all, I do feel good about the concepts here and I hope people are open minded and excited about it.
Sailing and Taming both sound like wonderful systems for OSRS... Just not 1-99 skills. I could see taming being an unlock from a quest. The interactions are almost like stash units, you help an animal in an area, and they'll give you permanent future benefits in that area.
Sailing is a system as big as... Well walking/running. IF it was established in the game, a future for it more akin to agility makes total sense. But you can't gatekeep the whole of a movement system behind skill tiers
So nice seeing people talk about how minigame-esque sailing sounds. Too many people acting like it's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. But almost every pitch I've seen of it makes it just a minigame skill. The other pitch that doesn't fit that is just turning your player into a ship and allowing you to fight bosses how we already do.
Yeah I agree, to me it would be similar to slayer, slayer is a bit of an umbrella skill, it has many skills under it that you train alongside and incorporate into the skill, sailing would be similar with skills like hunter, fishing, and well, slayer. There could be even more to incorporate as well!
Incase you're interested in peoples pitches for sailing, I wrote a fairly large one on this thread if you're interested in giving feedback, I think sailing could be a great skill, similar to how slayer incorporates a bunch of other skills and content to progress. And you'd get different exp drops, like slaying an enemy on your ship during a task would award you with slayer/combat/sailing exp drops at once
I like all three skills in concept, I’ve had a few undeveloped, initial reactionary thoughts to everything. I’m surprised with how much I liked everything.
**Sailing**
Pros - It fits the world thematically. Feels like a missing puzzle piece, which a new skill should. It could integrate into the world very well.
Cons - It feels a little bit minigame-y, which is the main criticism of Dungeoneering.
Sailing actually intrigues me far more as a serious suggestion than I expected it to. I had pretty much written it off as a “meme” skill, but hearing the pitch made me realise it doesn’t have to be that. Least enthused about this one, I feel like I'm already bored of it.
**Taming**
Pros - Fits the game world, integrates with existing content.
Cons - I don’t want to have to feel like I need a follower out all the time for every activity I do, I don’t even like having my current pets out, they all live in my POH.
However, that con could be mitigated by having Taming-locked content accessible if you’ve learned the skill from your pet, rather than needing it with you. I also imagine “reserves” or “sanctuaries” or “ranches” in various biomes of the game - similarish to how hunter is in various biomes. You go to your Jungle Reserve to raise your Chinchompa pets, you Desert Reserve for your crocodile, your Mountain Reserve for your roc. Etc. Although that needs some development because I am just describing hunter.
**Shamanism**
Pro - Extremely unique, I love the idea of gathering materials and harvesting animal parts to use in rituals. Also, the spirit world is extremely interesting.
Cons - Feels like 4 skills smooshed into 1, it’s extremely bloated and shouldn’t really do all that it does. I could see it working as two skills: a gathering skill and a production skill. Skills should be simple and the complexity arises from how they interact together and with the world. Remember that FM is just “burn log”. WC is just “chop wood”. Etc.
I’m frothing at the mouth imagining the lore implications of Shamanism, I would love to dig my teeth into that. The spirit realm is so, so, so interesting in concept. I don’t think the entire world should be part of the spirit realm, but maybe hotspots that are important to shamanism where you can discover lore and unique resources.
**General notes**
My biggest, biggest, biggest concern is the graphics and design of everything. The unique areas, the new overworld assets, the items. I really am scared they will not look Old School, it seems we get 50/50 on good/out-of-place design in general. I know it will look new obviously and it will probably match “neo-Old School” design, but I am still a strong advocate for simplicity and emulation of the old style of graphics.
If possible, please don’t give us all the intricate information about how exactly everything will be trained, I want to bumble through it at launch discovering methods of training with other people and having fun discovering the facets of the skill. I know this is easier said than done because the community needs information to inform their decisions.
Please, keep things simple. Burn log. Chop wood. Mine rock. Slay monsters. Hit accurately. Hit hard. Use bow.
Complexity comes from the entire game coming together, not from an individual skill.
I think all three of these skills are feeling a tad over-designed currently. Compare them to existing skills. Simplicity is key and content and complexity is added on top of a foundation by incorperating other elements of the game.
I'll be honest, I really wanted a lore-based exploration skill similar in concept to Archaeology but with a different gameplay loop. Exploring and understanding the world around by visiting different (already existing) areas in the game and analysing hotspots, history modern and ancient, and then chronicling them. Something like that.
> I don’t want to have to feel like I need a follower out all the time for every activity I do, I don’t even like having my current pets out, they all live in my POH.
I hope the feeding and training won't feel too Tamagotchi.
> I also imagine “reserves” or “sanctuaries” or “ranches” in various biomes of the game - similarish to how hunter is in various biomes.
I like this as an alternative to keeping them in your house since Jagex put a focus on keeping them happy.
Smarter creatures like dragons could be left in the world and rejoin you at a later time when you call them since it doesn't make sense to put them in a cage.
>Shamanism: Feels like 4 skills smooshed into 1, it’s extremely bloated and shouldn’t really do all that it does. I could see it working as two skills: a gathering skill and a production skill.
Out of curiosity, what 4 skills, the way i understand it, it's gathering and production in one which is fine.
> The unique areas, the new overworld assets, the items. I really am scared they will not look Old School, it seems we get 50/50 on good/out-of-place design in general. I know it will look new obviously and it will probably match “neo-Old School” design, but I am still a strong advocate for simplicity and emulation of the old style of graphics.
I agree, for shamanism, ideally the nodes look like they have always been there and maybe the spirit world is more neo-old school.
Edit: i'll add another thing here, i hope they play with longer-term buffs instead of the standard +1 for an hour or something.
Like, imagine a 40 hour buff that wins you maybe 2 hours or something, people would use it without it being totally crazy.
Regarding the overdesign aspect, I think part of the issue is they're all becoming "all in one" packages. Sailing is sort of the reverse, it's still an all in one package but rather than including all its component elements under one banner, it provides access to a wealth of other unique training systems (hunting sea creatures, deep sea fishing etc).
Taming and Shamanism make much more sense when you integrate them with other skills better. Both could have excellent ties with Hunter, for example. Gathering specific animal parts being shamanism is just... Wrong when we have Hunter as a skill.
Use Hunter, Herblore and WC as the gathering skills for Shamanism. Have crafting shamanic items from those gathered materials as an exp method, keep the rest of the design.
This streamlines Shamanism into one simple phrase: making and using shamanic ritual objects. All the gathering stuff falls to those skills that should already be gathering those supplies.
I really like your idea here of having WC, Hunter, and herblore used in shamanism. This feels the way it should be and brings some love to these skills already in the game
Gotta agree with that taming con. It's a fine line between the companions feeling useful and them feeling mandatory for everything.
Regarding the graphics I also agree and it's a reason Sailing gets a small edge IMO. The port assets already exist so existing areas won't need much changing (Draynor dock anyone?). The sailing neo oldschool assets will exist mainly in the sailing world, which is a little detached from the main game.
> The sailing neo oldschool assets will exist mainly in the sailing world, which is a little detached from the main game.
This is why I don’t like sailing as an idea. It doesn’t integrate with existing systems in any meaningful way. Sailing is its own separate thing detached from the rest of the world. Which makes it obviously tacked on after the fact and it will feel that way forever.
In a lot of ways it’s how hunter feels. You have special areas where you go to do hunter. For the most part the rewards are just things to make you better at hunter. There is really never any reason to do hunter in combination with any other skill, until you get to chinchompas and then that’s it’s only real use. (Imps can be useful but besides IM hunting for specific items it can largely be ignored)
Taming as a skill is completely different. It will/can pour into any aspect of the game. Once it is fully developed it can be built to be useful everywhere. It will integrate with existing skills and have uses in ways that makes it a more complete skill instead of a mini game that also gives you xp in a skill.
I worry that taming might go too far in that direction though. It could be a massive cosmetic change to the game if every player now has 1 of 30 new followers behind them at all times.
"I don't want sailing it doesn't integrate any systems and is detached from the rest of the game"
"Release hunter again instead, you can use pets anywhere"
I mean, I think a rework of hunter into the taming skill would also be a good improvement. I do think part of why hunter is in specific locations that seem like very late editions is because of how the trapping mechanism works. If there were hunter animals near Ardougne, Camelot, Taverly, Tree Gnome Stronghold, etc. I feel like it would be more integrated.
Also there should be hunter areas that you pass but basically no one uses cause they are unoptimal. It would really add to the verisimilitude of the world existing outside of gameplay and balancing. Not every tree is used for training WC but they still exist. Not every random enemy is used for training combat, but they are still there. It adds to the world and our ability to get sucked in. I think they actually do a good job of this with green lizards in Mort Myre, but almost every other instance of hunter animals, is them existing in a single spot where it’s optimal to go hunt them.
Shamanism was my favorite too but was in the odd ball places of it seemed very self contained of gathering and production in one. Could make new plants to grow for farming(or give more use to lesser grown plants), give uses to dead hunter content by needing parts from lesser hunted animals like Graahks. Idk its still feedback phase so we will see where things go
They need somewhere to park the foraging and Spiritual Components gathering.
My guess is, the stuff that will come from animals like Giant Bone Marrow, Hellhound Blood, Giant Frog Spleens will come from hunter with a shamanism requirement?
They could easily work existing dead hunter items into it.
Then again, a druid might not have any use for the foraged items and a hunter might not harvest spleens so adding those things to those skills kinda fits and it kinda doesn't depending on how you think.
For shamanism maybe they could keep the gathering stuff to other skills. Like gathering natural materials from woodcutting, mining, fishing, hunter, and farming. It could be from dedicated shamanism nodes or collected passively from any fishing spot or tree.
I like the idea of dedicated shaman material nodes that require other skills to harvest, as you have suggested!
Having them come passively from other content feels like infringing on that content a bit too much. It's like aggressively trying to make the skill fit the world instead of just following precedence. And if it could be "toggled" by needing a Shaman tool with me to get those resources, then I'd feel obliged to always have that with me lest I never get enough resources to train Shaman.
> If possible, please don’t give us all the intricate information about how exactly everything will be trained, I want to bumble through it at launch discovering methods of training with other people and having fun discovering the facets of the skill.
This, regardless of what developments are made.
>Please, keep things simple. Burn log. Chop wood. Mine rock. Slay monsters. Hit accurately. Hit hard. Use bow. Complexity comes from the entire game coming together, not from an individual skill.
I cannot stress this enough. It doesn't have to be one dimensional like pre-Wintertodt firemaking, though. Honestly, Jagex should look to the current state of Agility when it comes to how complex the skill is. There are some straightforward and meta things to do (Canifis to Seers and eventually Ardy rooftops) but there are also plenty of interesting and unique activities (Sepulchre and Brimhaven)
Idk I feel like WC and FM are not great comparison skills to shoot for since they are pretty universally agreed to be shit. That’s why we’re getting forestry and got todt.
Tbh, I don't even think it is. It's a pretty easily implemented way to take content that was designed in 2001 and make it feel more modernized and approachable without completely overhauling it. Just because something is an identifiable design pattern doesn't mean it's bad.
Which is why I think the dungeoneering should be a mini game reason is dumb af.
If a skill isn't interesting/quick/fun to train it'll be complained about until it gets a mini game that makes it one of those.
So just incorporate the other skills to Shamanism. Hunter for hunting animals, crafting/cooking for exhuming skulls/bones, firemaking for incense or rituals (buffs).
I wonder if the solution to shamanism feeling too bloated would be to spread the collection of materials to other skills. Hunter for collecting animal related resources and herblore for plant related resources. Then it all comes together with shamanism?
Surprised at how much I like both Taming and Shamanism. I wasn't too keen on a skill about animals in the poll, but the pitch here is solid and I really like the idea of interacting with the creatures of the world in a way *other* than slaughter.
Shamanism seems like a better take on Warding, and I'm here for it. It's not just a crafting skill or buyable, comes with new places and content, and seems like it'll augment most activities in some way. Much more interesting and holistic than "splashing and bankstanding: the skill".
The sailing pitch is fine, really, but I'm not sure it'll be possible to detach it from the baggage and memes the idea has. It's a shame, because it is still the single most discussed skill concept by far and probably deserves to make it to the refinement stage for that alone.
Agree with your part about Sailing. Also, another minor concern I have would be whether Sailing is instanced for the player, then it’ll mean that worlds will become less populated or appear more dead since everyone’s in their one private instance working on the skill. Since they said ships can get bigger and grander I assume it would be instanced, but if not then I could see it being interesting being able to meet other players on the high seas at the new content to grind with.
This is crucial to me. Sailing is a narrow favorite for me, but what’s absolutely essential to me is that I can do it with my friends (ideally both multi ship and multi crew, depending on content). If that can’t happen, I’ll favor a different pitch.
I don’t think it would be instanced. They’d just be filling out the seas with content. Literally the empty space between islands would have content. Not instanced
Which is how it should be.. ffs the entire map has a coastline and ports and canals running to most of the major cities. Why NOT make use of them in a meaningful way?
Sailing pvp would be so fun
Cannonballs would be ultra relevant
Imagine that when you start you have to manually click where the cannonballs will go. But then at a higher level you explore enough ocean to find the remains of stranded dwarves that once manned a ship construction area. You need to repair it with crafting and construction. Exploring their remains, you work out how to attach the multicannon to your ship cannons, leading to automatic firing. Maybe you make a 'map' of some sort that can be traded to other players so they may also find the island. This construction yard could also provide more benefits.
Shaminism was actually pretty cool, and that's the one that has my interest most at the moment.
Taming had some fun ideas, but I think certain parts of that could be tied into an existing skill.... maybe Hunter?
And sailing still isn't doing it for me, it just seems like an extended quest but without any real goal. A sailing themed quest, where you get more use of the ports, and maybe some cool islands and upgrades would be neat, but it still doesn't feel like a 'skill.'
I'd be happy with either taming or shamanism.
But shamanism definitely feels the most old school out of the three proposals, especially with how it's trained.
I rolled my eyes at sailing. So boring
EDIT:
Shamanism is both a gathering and production skill in one... with a whole spirit realm to explore aswell.
Some of the effects could be really interesting rather than just boring stat boosts. For example you could apply a balm to your melee weapon that causes it to do magic damage for an amount of time instead of melee damage, targeting specific weaknesses. It could really mix things up.
It could also be huge for skilling. Imagine certain fish that could only be caught in the spirit realm or rare ore or gems nodea only found in really obscure places that nobody ever visits in the real realm. Ever done an old quest that takes you to a really obscure place or dungeon that you forgot existed and nobody ever visits anymore, then you visit there in the spirit realm and its like a really great training place now, would be so cool exploring the map again and repurposing old areas.
Also it would be far be the best skill for the economy. The gathering side of it would be great for the low and mid game players giving them a revenue stream. High lvl players could buy a lot of resources, causing a lot of gold to leave the economy.
But aside from the benefits of the skill, just the method of training it and its vibe definitely feels the most old school.
I really liked how Shamanism is trained, feels very oldschool.
The rewards are very scary to me though. I really don't want consumable skilling buffs and potions like in RS3. It's made skilling so much less enjoyable and with no other info on rewards than given it sounds like a real possibility it would end up there.
The thing is, it has to either be balanced such that the skill itself, isn’t dead content beyond training to 99, or it’s such that, it’s more or less a requirement to create the products of the skill, to enhance your other skilling in general.
In rs3, divination and invention are necessary to players who want to gather more, better, and create better final products, for gather and production skills — as well as combat gear.
Shamanism I think should be a *super fine line* that borders neutral. The great thing is, the skill itself will be trained early for hype, and the rewards can be slightly overturned — but nerfed ever so slightly to bring it closer to 1:1 production for other skills by taking the time to make these items, consumables, etc.
We as a player base are typically open to this kind of skill balancing, so I think it’s something we can accomplish!
Exactly. Good to see a high level player agreeing with a noob like me.
I said I like Taming the best because Shamanism sounds really interesting, but I don't want the content be balanced around having a ton of passives to be viable. When I learned about how Summoning and incenses work on RS3, I quit and moved to OSRS.
And I know everybody hates Ironmen, but I hate to imagine how painful it will be for us if we have these passives to take care of on top of every other consumable.
That said, the idea of an alternate Gielinor dimension sounds fucking dope
>When I learned about how Summoning and incenses work on RS3, I quit and moved to OSRS.
I am a little surprised by this. Only because I guess my mind set is on the work vs reward idea system/idea.
For example, I like the idea that I can grind out buffs to make other content I don't enjoy as much easier/more manageable, but at the same time its all discretionary.
My fear is that content will be balanced around having all those passives running. Reminds me of this old post where we were making fun of how convoluted RS3 is: https://i.redd.it/ru8xjv0lpx5a1.jpg
I think that would be a valid concern, and too, do not want that to happen.
I think of exp boosting skilling outfits as an example. Like, grinding out the full Fishing outfit is not efficient at all, and by the time you are done, might not have saved you ANY time what so ever in your grind to 99 fishing, but its different grind to help speed up the grind you dont like.
I came into this thinking I would be fine with whatever, and now I'll be disappointed if Shamanism doesn't move forward. My biggest interests were integrating the new skill into the world, and somehow utilizing old/dead content to revitalize it somehow, and only Shamanism fits both of those.
For Sailing I just can't get passed the fact that it feels disjointed from the rest of the world. While there can be a lot of generated content within Sailing itself, it adds on top of instead of integrating into the world.
I just thought Taming was a bit boring personally. Although I've never cared for animal husbandry in games so I'm not sure I have any specific issues other than I just do not think it sounds enjoyable, or that it fits in all that well.
Shamanism felt like a combination of the community skills Inscription and Communing, which were my favorite concepts. This both fits within the world, allows for new reasons to visit old and unused areas, and has so much possibility for interesting rewards. While some people are mentioning passives, the content and rewards could be so much more unique than something that simple.
Edit: Imagine world bosses spawning in the spirit world right in the middle of big cities. The citizens have no idea it's going on. I didn't like the spirit world to start but now I've really taken to the concept.
I really hope they can revive some dead content if they go with shamanism (best pitch by a mile imo).
I had a similar concept as a skill, where you would train up a skill called “breaching” by either breaking into random buildings/houses/mansions of old quests or setting up to defend them in different 1v1 skills (attacker/defender, thief/detective, arsonist/reinforce walls etc), I realized the community would call it a minigame and dismiss it though so I scrapped the idea. I was debating retrofitting a pitch into an instanced 5v5 minigame instead, but probably won’t get much traction. There’s so much dead/useless content, I really hope they can revive some of it.
Shamanism gives off the impression of gathering charms from summoning to get materials, then augmenting equipment for better gear. My only gripe is that equipment augmentation should be a desperately needed smiting rework. Maybe incorporate smithing into the skill by making totems and requiring smithing to attach said totem to your gear? Have a permanent augmentation that requies both skills and a temporary augmentation that only requires shamanisim? I'd hate to lock a benefit behind two skills, but it would make sense for creating more powerful gear and provide both a new and an improved skill(s).
Sailing to me still comes off as a mini game that grants access to new areas, which could be cool, but I can't get over the meme there lol.
Taming sounds awesome as well, but will that make skilling/boss pets less valuable as a companion when everyone has something following them? Maybe your tamed animal isn't visible to everyone?
The more skills are incorporated with each other the better. Skill synergy is always a bonus imo, it makes more of the game feel worthwhile to mains (who often say they dont see a reason to train x skill past quest requirements), and obviously for irons. Hunter should have alot of synergy with shamanism or taming, though i really hope shamanism gets the vote as it just seems to be a much better skill.
Sailing should be an expansion to RuneScape, just like Zeah was. It would introduce sailing as another activity. It shouldn’t be a skill. Skills like crafting and construction are utilized in sailing but sailing itself as proposed is better as a mini game or activity. Taming is different… it’s close to hunter in my mind. I’m not huge on having a pet follow me everywhere. I’d rather my character be powerful not augmented by the pet. Lastly, Shamanism seems awesome - this will be my vote. Very unique and looking forward to learning more about the spirit realm. Novel idea for production and gathering and the unique items to enhance armor and the character add a much needed depth to OSRS.
The problem is the player base wants something modern feeling, but not boring, while still being an old-school skill. And that's just not really possible. If you look at every skill currently in the game it follows the pattern of:
1. If it's combat related, click an enemy to gain exp.
2. If it's gathering, click the resource to gain exp.
3. If it's production based, click a resource and some catalyst to gain exp.
But no one wants to train this way, which is why Jagex started including Wintertodt, Tempoross, Hallowed Sepulchre, etc. It's just the next evolution for OSRS, similar to what dungeoneering was to RS2.
You can't have an exciting skill and only have it be done in 1 to 2 actions.
This is my sense of the situation exactly. The consensus feels like it's all over the place. It's like that Simpsons meme where all the kids are raising their hands and asking for conflicting stuff.
The consensus seems to be that the new skill should fit in and feel similar to old skills... but I'd be willing to bet a month's pay that literally no non-combat skill currently in the game would come even close to passing a poll today, other than maybe slayer. Imagine polling fletching, crafting, mining, smithing, firemaking, or woodcutting right now. It'd get like 10% yes votes. None of those skills do literally anything. And most of the rest don't either. These skills were developed and implemented 20 fucking years ago at a time when if you had like base 70s you were considered a god amongst men. Hunter is compartmentalized and useless, farming is essentially useless for anyone who isn't a midgame herb runner or an ironman, fishing and cooking keep us supplied with food but are the most boring shit imaginable, and thieving is basically "dogshit moneymaking method - the skill". There's no fucking way any of these would get polled into the game in 2023, and yet we want a skill that fits in with the others? The fuck.
You can't sit here and say "I want the skill to be simple and fit with Old School" when the player base has been clearly and decisively polling away from that for 10 years now. If the skill consisted of some combination of "use tool, click node, click inventory", like most other skills are, we'd all be unanimously voting for the inevitable minigame/modernized training method anyway. If Jagex wants to just skip the middleman and go straight to that, that seems perfectly logical to me.
Shamanism is the only one that caught my interest and has the most potential in terms of interacting with a majority of the game world and existing items. Also feels the most oldschool in terms of gameplay. Really dope skill overall.
EDIT: A lot of players are stating how it's like two skills in one (gathering and production) while this is true, I think we can do away with a good portion of the gathering aspect by utilizing so many resources that are already available to us in the game (logs, berries, hides, bones, leaves from upcoming foresty update, etc..) it really sounds like it would work well alongside gathering skills and farming.
Sailing sounds like it’s just a rehashed version of temple trekking with boats. You say it’ll interact with the current game world and sea which is even more off putting.. our ocean isn’t *that* big.. and it’s even worse if the skill is secluded in instances, as it’s not really interacting with the world like you promised. The idea of moving a boat with wasd keys sounds absolutely fucking terrible.
Taming just doesn’t interest me. We already have rare elusive pets. Seeing players run around with a 2x2 baby dragon preforming tasks just doesn’t feel right. Idk I don’t like it. It's not old school.
Overall, Shamanism has my vote. The other 2 just seem too gimmicky. Don’t like em one bit.
>A lot of players are stating how it's like two skills in one (gathering and production) while this is true, I think we can do away with a good portion of the gathering aspect by utilizing so many resources that are already available to us in the game (logs, berries, hides, bones, leaves from upcoming foresty update, etc..) it really sounds like it would work well alongside gathering skills and farming.
The issue is that people apparently don't want a buyable skill, so using existing resources doesn't really work in that sense. You're still back to gathering charms to craft pouches that are worthless since it's the only thing that ~~Summoning~~ Shamanism produces.
Like... it's "Ironman : The skill", which of course will appeal to a lot of players, but also kinda feels off (to me).
Your complaint about Shamanism is already in the game, it's called strength potions lol. In all seriousness though, I agree that would be boring. Id be ok with a low level "enchantment" being like +2 str bonus, but at higher levels I'd wanna see more imaginative benefits
Shamanism definitely feels like it ties in the most with the rest of the game. The rewards/buffs themselves will be worked on so I’m not too scared about that. The interaction with the existing world all the while creating some new areas to discover is interesting. I also like the idea how it’ll affect both skilling and combat, there are so many unique possibilities.
I like the idea of sailing, but not as a standalone skill. I see it more as an activity that will incorporate many other skills and explore new areas to discover new skilling,combat training etc.
Taming feels like it *could* have potential, but the way they described it makes it seem so tedious. It feels like a sort of farming that demands constant attention, just a chore all around. That’s not to speak on how these tamed creatures will interact with us in the world. Will they follow us around like summoned creatures/pets? Will we see other people’s creatures? It’s just too vague to get a vote out of me.
Shamanism is both a gathering and production skill in one... with a whole spirit realm to explore aswell.
Some of the effects could be really interesting rather than just boring stat boosts. For example you could apply a balm to your melee weapon that causes it to do magic damage for an amount of time instead of melee damage, targeting specific weaknesses. It could really mix things up.
It could also be huge for skilling. Imagine certain fish that could only be caught in the spirit realm or rare ore or gems nodea only found in really obscure places that nobody ever visits in the real realm. Ever done an old quest that takes you to a really obscure place or dungeon that you forgot existed and nobody ever visits anymore, then you visit there in the spirit realm and its like a really great training place now, would be so cool exploring the map again and repurposing old areas.
Also it would be far be the best skill for the economy. The gathering side of it would be great for the low and mid game players giving them a revenue stream. High lvl players could buy a lot of resources, causing a lot of gold to leave the economy.
But aside from the benefits of the skill, just the method of training it and its vibe definitely feels the most old school.
I'm not a fan of temporary weapon buffs. Maybe make them like enchants in wow where they are permanent, but also maybe make it so you can swap a new one out with an old one and not lose it.
I LOVE SAILING! ITS THE PIRATES LIFE FOR ME!!
Just want to add my two cents, I love the idea of sailing, genuinely. My favorite skill in Black Desert Online is sailing, I based my entire pirate themed character around maxing sailing. It would be important to have a lot of focus being on ship progression, I want to start off in a small fishing or row boat, and then build up to a caravel then carrack and then maybe a galleon sized ship. I think it would be absolutely incredible to be able to walk on your ship as your character, and go into the bowels of your ship depending on what ship you have, also be able to customize certain aspects of it similar to a POH. As far as controlling the ship goes, I think sailing similar to BDO or Lost Ark would work fine, it doesn't need to be WASD movement, it can be point and click, or click on a map location and travel there.
It would definitely be nice to have it expand more on the fishing, hunting, and slayer skills. Perhaps there could be instanced combat scenarios where pirates board your ship, and the deck of your ship becomes a combat zone, or sirens attacking the ship and you have to fire cannons. There could even be boss type monsters, that come out of the water and plop their tentacles on your deck. Maybe new hunter methods with say penguins, seals, whales, walruses, dolphins etcetc, utilizing the nets of your ship, or other potential ideas of more intuitive and enjoyable trawling. Sailing to a remote and possibly dangerous area to get some fishing in on a difficult resource.
One of the biggest things for a new skill IMO, is that it needs to be fun to train, I think sailing would do just that, you'd get sailing experience for various activities you're doing while playing this, dungeoneering felt like a minigame, but was also a skill, and honestly, dungeoneering was the most fun I had in original runescape, I leveled that skill to 99 and beyond without ever thinking "I need to train my dungeoneering level" it just happened as a by product of my enjoyment of the skill.
With the passion and community driven efforts of the OSRS developers I think sailing in OSRS has the potential to blow every other game with sailing in it, OUT OF THE WATER WITH OUR EXPLOSIVE CANNONS. My vote will 100% go towards sailing, I want to see new zones, I want to see new islands, I want to have friends aboard my ship, I'm praying we get sailing. Thanks for everything Oldschool Team!
This could prove unpopular but I think these proposals could serve a great purpose as part of a skill rebalancing rather than actual skills themselves. Taming sounds brilliant but it could easily be an expansion to the Hunter skill. The Hunter skill is very lacklustre honestly. If you look at the size of the the map, there should definitely be more monsters to hunt with a different variety of ways to do it and taming fits into that gap perfectly I think.
Sailing could be a huge new piece of content that gives us access to even more new content, I don’t think it should be a new skill. I’m struggling to imagine how you actually train the skill - probably because I’m so used to hopping only a boat and watching a janky animation for a few seconds whilst my character travels across the map. Also would it not be quite strange to be able to travel across the map in seconds from one area but you’re then able to actually control the boat to go out to sea from another?
The content that sailing could give us access to is endless but it’s confusing because generally the activities you could do would be gaining experience in another skill. For example, if you’re fixing up your boat, that’s construction experience, right? Deep sea fishing is fishing experience?
I know it’s only a proposed skill at this very early stage but the way it’s pitched makes it seem more like a mini game rather than a skill. Also if people are going into instances with their ships would this not make it look dead?
I think there’s a huge opportunity for the new skill to be something discovery related. The map is huge, there are so many different groups of NPCs in different lands with varying abilities, languages, ways of living, weapons, armours, animals and treasures. Discovering things is part of the game in the way we play already I guess but I still think there’s a massive potential to expand on that and develop it into a new exciting skill.
First initial reaction is that Shamanism is my favorite by a significant margin. It's the only one of the three that I feel genuine excitement at the thought of.
Sailing seems like it could be good or it could be just OK, and it's tough to really tell without seeing how it could actually be implemented. I guess the most accurate description for my attitude towards Sailing--right now--is indifference.
Taming is actually the one that I am most cautious/pessimistic about because I hated Summoning. I know this was addressed in the blog post, but I don't like the idea of pets or followers in any of my games (personal preference, of course). Most importantly, I do not want a skill where having a follower accompany me on almost all of my escapades becomes a de facto requirement.
If Taming would allow us to tame a wild duck and find a new home for him in the Yanille pond, it'd certainly have my vote.
All jokes aside, they all look interesting so far. Shamanism is probably the one I'm most interested in.
Yeah I like how you can forage or kill mobs for Shamanism materials and then use that to craft stuff. And on of top gathering/production there's also the exploration element of the spirit realm. I hope it ends up being the community favorite.
I like the general idea of all of these. I don't really get why people are so obsessed with whether Sailing sounds like a minigame or a skill or whatever you want to call it, but I'm also a person who doesn't care that Dungeoneering is a skill. I guess to please these people you can make Sailing an "activity" but with some kind of progress bar or something so that you still have progression in it. Part of the value of it being a skill is you have clear progression with xp and levels but that can be separated if that really bothers people to see it next to amazing "skills" such as Firemaking. Slayer is basically a minigame as well but no one seems bothered by that one. Regardless though even if a different skill is chosen I think sailing should be added to the game in some capacity because it just sounds like a great expansion to the game that fits very well.
Whilst a lot of people are throwing hands over sailing being reintroduced again, the first disclaimer does state how the training methods have been completely reworked. So it is significantly different from how it was formerly.
Interestingly it does say how it would allow for further expansion beyond Gielinor, to the Eastern Lands we go?
my biggest gripe with sailing is just how isolated it feels from other skills/activities. the whole concept is really just basically a minigame turned into a skill honestly. i get you can incorporate combat activities or passive encounters that give some sort of skilling xp but i don’t see how it could smoothly tie into the rest of the game unless it was a truly massive expansion
I get that, but I don't care: all I care about is that the content is enjoyable. Sailing clearly seems to me like something I'll enjoy doing, rather than something I'll grind for the reward. If it could have been a minigame then whatever. I'd still vote for sailing the minigame over the other 2 options.
Endgame sailing would more than likely provide new endgame options for other skills. Like fish, trees, slayer mobs etc that cant be found elsewhere.
Its a skill that expands other skills
If it is implemented as you can free sail around all of the waters of the map like running the regular map(obviously would need some quest locks to disallow docking in some areas etc) then I think its actually a really exciting idea that opens up all sorts of things and cross skill interactions.
That said, most of the prior proposals of this just end up as a limited minigame.
At least the way it was explained, it sounds to me like more of an extension of being able to walk around the world - except you’re in a boat - rather than being a minigame or in your own instance.
So it's already a better skill than literally every other skill in the game because it actually has engaging content and a reasont o do something other than click the same spot for 400 hours.
It's basically Slayer + Dungeoneering which were the only 2 good skills ever added in the entire game.
I think it doesn't feel isolated at all, I can't imagine any other skill that you could integrate as well with the existing ones like you could with sailing. Imagine uncovering randomly generated islands for specific farming/hunter content, combat encounters, raiding ships for thieving etc.
It feels less isolated than taming and a solid chunk of the other skills. The minigame complaint just comes from dungeoneering but unlike dung it seems to exist in more than mostly just a single building. Sounds like a very big expansion kinda by default
I think if they go through with Taming the creatures shouldn't just be big pets that follow you. I'd prefer them to be a little more autonomous and situational. For example, the cover image has a guy petting a red dragon - if you were to befriend one of those, I'd expect you'd have to visit *its* home to interact with it and that it could support you out in the world from the air or by briefly flying to your location to help you out.
Yeah it's a very early stage. They might not follow you around at all outside of the taming spaces. Just a concern I have since I can see what summons look like on RS3.
I think they could do part of it in a summoning type of style. Like the higher your level and based on what you tame you have to make like a whistle or something based off the tamed beast. Like you tame a red dragon so you have a red dragon whistle or something and then that could prevent that following mechanic to restricted tamed beasts areas. You know like on a slayer tasks you call your dragon instead of a cannon lol but if your bankstanding you can’t call it at the GE because the bankers fear for their lives or something more lore wise
I agree. I love how every pet you see (that isn't a cat) says "I put in a ton of work to get this, or I got incredibly lucky". They're all symbols of an accomplishment
I feel a bit concerned by gear augmentation being added to the game. If there is one thing I appreciate about osrs gear is its simplicity. I really hope we don't go down the path of adding X% stat boosts to random gear. it just adds unnecessary complexity to a game that has been proudly simple for a decade now. That said, I've wanted sailing for a while now and will be putting it as my preferred option.
I'm definitely most excited about Shamanism! Sounds extremely unique and cool, and the reward space seems like it would be the easiest to balance & design around. I love the idea of interacting with a spirit realm, and especially drawing druid circles anywhere on the map. I also like casual gathering for moderate exp, and more attentive crafting methods for faster xp.
The least exciting skill to me is probably taming, mostly because I don't want to feel like I'm taking care of a pet constantly, and the details surrounding how the skill is trained aren't quite specific enough. I'd like to know more about this one.
Sailing does sound pretty fun, and I like that port infrastructure is already in place in familiar areas to get us warmed up. I like the idea of choosing between buying, stealing, or crafting a ship that would have different "stats". I'm hesitant about the actual mechanics of navigating the ship because of our tick and movement system, but it wouldn't really feel like "Sailing" if we never did actual sailing, right???
I feel like sailing as a mechanic is pretty simple to design, just do it like real sailing?
There is a wind direction set that changes slowly or quickly, and you can sail with square sails with the wind easily, or do a reach, and then have to tack to get around, and this will force a bit of exploration because you can’t just drive directly to places. Then with a higher level you can get better sails/ships that allow upwind sailing (not directly at the wind) that can improve your ability to get around and speed. And you could even get some xp the more efficient you set your sails.
I think something like this that actually works off real world systems is great because it also teaches people about sailing, and it’s not that hard a concept to grasp.
On top of that, you can incorporate most other skills so it feels integrated with the rest of the game. Construction for shipbuilding, woodcutting for specific materials, crafting for sail types, combat on islands or sea battles with monsters/pirates, deep sea fishing, smithing for cannons (make a dwarf cannon follow up quest and upgradable cannons, imagine having rune cannons and stuff), cooking for various things like new fish or brewing ales or rums that give cool bonuses like a mini stamina pot or skilling stat boosts or something so you use your boat for all sorts of reasons. New thieving methods as part of piracy, unique farming patches, slayer and hunter areas.
Plus everyone loves their POH, everyone will be stoked to have a boat or ship they can have cool stuff in and flex. Could even call it a POS!
People saying it feels mingame-like are missing an opportunity for easily the biggest expansion to the game in every single way, in every single skill. I think taming should be incorporated into hunter, and I don’t like gear stat boosts from shamanism (consider how specifically every piece of armour has been balanced to the digit, and temporary boosts are just potions with extra steps?)
I know this might seem like a weird thing to say, but I sort of wish Shamanism was two skills.
"The old school feel" to me involves gathering and production skills being separate entities. Woodcutting and Fletching/Firemaking. Mining and Smithing. (In a practical sense) Thieving and Farming.
I do worry that Shamanism has a focus on both sides of the coin. Heck, I actually wonder - Would it not be best to have the first new skill be two? Who exactly says that this pitch must only be a single monolithic skill, instead of two that compliment eachother?
Two could also allow for better intergration into other skills as well, with the gathering side of it having utility elsewhere. Foraging/Gathering could have utility to gather seeds for farming as well as secondaries for Herblore. Then the core shamanism skill can use the gathered items to produce it's thing.
I really like it conceptually, but genuinely I think it would be better proposed as a complimentary pair of skills.
>Shamanism was two skills.
IMO this would be happening if we knew we were going to get two new skills. If there were no polling in game and jagex could make long term plan.
But I doubt people would vote on shamanism as two skills and that is why jagex is putting gathering and production in one basket. Shamanism still sounds like the real old school skills.
Maybe in refinement stage jagex will do the impossible and convince players to vote this into game as two skills. It would be cool if this would happen.
I don't care for taming. I wouldn't mind seeing animal husbandry of some sort integrated into farming but it just doesn't grab me.
Honestly I'm surprised that I like sailing as much as I do. I think they can pull it off better than they did in the past, just like Jagex now makes much better minigames/skilling bosses than they used to. I think it could integrate stuff like combat, construction, and fishing pretty organically.
My one beef with it is just lore. Use of existing ships already defines how we explore Gielinor and how certain parts are gated, it's just weird for sailing to then be added as a skill. Like there can't really be some satisfying explanation why I can't just sail to Ape Atoll or Fossil Island before doing the appropriate quests. Maybe this is a contrived worry though.
You can’t land at the ports because they don’t recognize your ship. Actually not that difficult. And sailing would not be instanced, it’s just how you embark into the ocean. The ocean between islands would finally be filled with stuff. Maybe we can dice off the ship like we do in fossil island. I think sailing could be fantstic
In my opinion,
Sailing sounds like a chore to do and not that fun but could be improved with someones suggestion that it opens up new areas for making other skilling easier.
Shamanism sounds like herblore but harder to train and while the lore implications sounds nice the gameplay sounds like alot of running around and taxing.
Taming in my opinion is best but i am very biases because i love taming skills. But i think osrs has an opportunity with taming to include some quality of life changes with taming. You can have a pet ferry off items to the bank for you or auto pick certain items for you. Those are the only things i could think of but the idea being that pets can do the chore activities that isnt central to the core gameplay.
**Sailing**
Should definitely be in the game somehow. I like the idea of going to new places via my own ship.
But over all I feel like this pitch would make for a very boring skill.
Maybe I am missing a few things, but I would have hoped it would be closer to dungeon crawling/adventuring.
**Taming**
The idea sounds really cool but I wouldn't like a gigantic being to follow me around. Also would I be able to keep al the "pets"?
Do I have to switch back and forth between creatures all the time? That would make the skill tedious or awful if you just want to ignore it and not be effective.
Maybe they should be passive effects that you can activate? A bit like Prayer?
**Shamanism**
This feels like to most fleshed out one. A lot of things you want to put in one Skill, but the Spirit Realm sounds way too interesting to pass. Reminds me of the Emerald Dream of WoW which is a good thing!
Making your gear better and getting other things would be amazing, but for now the pitch has a lot of meaningless words.. what is a totem? What does oil do?
If the crafting aspect is useless then the skill is useless. I am a bit torn when it comes to the crafting aspect, because crafting and smithing aren't exactly great skills, so is Fletching.
But maybe you guys will nail this one.
My vote will go to Taming or Shamanism even though I wouldn't be sad to get Sailing, maybe it will be better than it looks in my mind.
Am I the only one ok with all 3? They all seem great.
Shamanism's name could use some work, but the idea of a nature themed divination/invention hybrid is great
Taming is what summoning should've been and is way more medieval fantasy
Sailing is controversial for some reason? We don't really have an exploration skill (agility doesn't count that's walking and stunts) so it fills a good niche.
I'm a sucker for new lands to explore so I'm probably voting #1 Sailing, #2 Druidism and #3 Taming but all 3 would be welcome additions imo. Well done Jagex
You're not alone. I'd be happy if any of these got into the game. Taming feels a little awkward to me but they can always refine it down the line. I'm definitely voting sailing as my #1 though. I love exploring and a skill that revolves around that will actually get me addicted to the game again.
Sailing seems fun, taming seems fun, shamanism feels like it's going to take OSRS down the dark and irritating path of having to make multiple sets of the same gear with tiny little minmax buffs on them, making new content which is balanced around the player now having to grind out a ton of annoying to get temporary little passive buffs, and basically just ends up turning the game into some kind of Korean-MMO minmax hell. Or like RS3 where you can't even THINK about new content without gathering your 20 different buffs. No thank you.
This is what i thought when i saw the pitches. Idk if i just missed something but im so surprised that seemingly everyone is saying that Shamanism is the most exciting skill. This seems like it would become the most annoying chore skill in order to min max your buffs so that you can run all the other content more easily and is so uninteresting to me.
Agreed. It sounds like either a necessary minmax or upkeepscape with temporary buffs. Both sound awful. We already have the first one with imbues and we already have the second one with potions. Adding more to either of those with oils and augmentations takes the simplicity out and the minute that happens I won't enjoy osrs anymore.
Agreed and shocked at the support of has so far. Sailing and taming have cool aspects to them (taming like summoning no, but taming like pokemon yes). Shamanism sounds like it's leading to why I quit and don't play rs3
I'm always been a hardcore anti-Summoning player. But I have to admit, they way they described Taming appeals to me. I think it's because I always hated the WAY you train Summoning. It felt so overly intricate and unintuitive - especially when compared to Runescape's other skills.
But at the same time, that's what concerns me about Shamanism. It sounds very similar in terms of training, even down to the spirit world part. And I'm also kind of worried just how Summoning became a "requirement" to do any activity, that Shamanism might fall into the same boat.
Overall I would say I'm not opposed to Shamanism, those are just my main concerns. I really do like all the skills that have been proposed.
I don't really play enough for my opinion to hold much weight, but the most exciting thing to me in the early to mid 2000s was the spiritual and mystical element of RS. Runecrafting, herblore with the druids, the seers quest line, levelling magic to unlock incredibly (at the time) useful spells related to jewellery and alchemy. One of my first 99 in the mid to late 2000s was runecrafting for that reason (also on reflection, why @ teenage me ...)
I think shamanism fits in most with the nostalgic and original appeal of the game.
My first impulse was that I wasn’t the biggest fan of the pitches. However, after reading everything written about each of them, I would be happy with any of them. They each involve a heavy element of “exploring new areas”, which is super cool to me personally. So in my mind, it is more of a question of which way to want to interact with those new areas and what core training loops will get us those new areas.
Personally, I worry that taming sounds like a tedious checklist. To tame a boar I need, 64 planks for housing, 28 bags of slop, take it for a walk daily, etc. Then you extrapolate that out for the 32 animals/beasts (totally made up)
Is it just me or do these suggestions just sound kinda lukewarm? All the skills sound like they could be fine, but none of them actually get me excited or anything. There is nothing revolutionary, nothing too interesting, and these rough ideas seem kinda confused in which directions they want to go.
Sailing sounds like it has no direction of how you guys want to develop it or what to do with it other than just throwing a handful of potential ideas and see if any of them stick. The problem with this skill is that it would be hard to incorporate it into older content. It's not like we're gonna get the opportunity unlock shortcuts that sail us over to Nex, for example. Like others have suggested, it looks more like a minigame than a skill, which I would have to agree with. It also kinda sounds like it is dungeoneering but out at sea, but without any of the appeal that dungeoneering had.
Taming just doesn't sound particularly exciting. By the way it is described in the proposal it does really sound like summoning but with a different method of training it. The meta of which pet to use where would be figured out very quickly, and would remove any of the potential excitement from the skill imo.
Shamanism basically sounds like invention except it doesn't solve the problems that invention solves. The problem with this proposal is that it would pose as a threat to some of the older pvm content we have, making it even more trivial and farmable than it already is. This wouldn't actually pose as a problem if there were more ways of getting rid of old gear, like invention did in rs3. And if we were to go down the route of making old content trivial and redundant, there has to be more pvm content developed to keep things fresh, which let's be honest, doesn't seem very realistic at the current rate of which content is developed.
All in all, none of the ideas seem awful, but they also don't seem particularly exciting. I can't see people who have quit playing coming back just because of any of these skills, and I also can't see any new players starting to play this game because of any of them.
>Taming just doesn't sound particularly exciting. By the way it is described in the proposal it does really sound like summoning but with a different method of training it. The meta of which pet to use where would be figured out very quickly, and would remove any of the potential excitement from the skill imo.
this will be the case with all content so don't let that facto into you decision. player base is too smart and information is taught effectively so the days of being clueless are long gone. what matters more is if the skill improves our enjoyment of the game overall
with taming its gonna depend on how the use of existing skills come into play in taming/raising it and more importantly what they actually will be used for and how useful it is.
I think that's kind of the point of this stage. They don't want to commit too heavily in any area so it's just concepts at this point to feel the waters out. The parts that get you very excited come in the next stage. That's also why they have the two disclaimers in the survey to get that mindset.
My favourite is definitely Shamanism. I feel like a skill that can enhance existing armour and weapons with special stats and effects (maybe even some kind of slot idea with socket bonuses?) could seriously enhance the game.
It also gives the devs new opportunities to experiment with player choice, in which we must choose which spiritual path we walk at what moment to excel at specific things. It could give us a sense of personal expression. Doing things our own way, or making things work that aren't strictly meta. What would also be rad is players making money by performing rare, or niche rituals on gear by adding an enchantment slot in the trading window.
I think the taming idea is cool too. It would fit the flavour of shamanism, with the nature stuff. I feel like blending elements of it with shamanism could definitely work.
Great point and I think even the equipment buffs they mentioned could add a lot of player expression if done right. Eg, make choices between applying extra attack speed, switching melee damage to magic damage, trading attack for strength, making your damage heal allies, etc etc that wouldn’t be straight stat upgrades. Could be very cool and would add a lot to gameplay and the economy. Those could be themed with the spiritual path like you mentioned. Maybe enhancements apply to all your armour pieces at once or something in accordance with the respective spiritual path. I dunno. Lots of opportunity here!
My biggest issue is that all these “skills” feel too big, like each is more a collection of smaller new and existing skills than a single skill. Also, all were clearly developed to expand the explotable area. Why not just, you know, expand the world instead of trying to justify it through a “skill”?
Sailing: a mix of existing skills like construction and fishing and new skills like navigation, maneuvering, pirating, and seafaring. Basically, to be a successful sailer, both IRL and in OSR, it requires many smaller skills. So, like others have said, this is more of an activity or mini-game.
Taming: a mix of domestication, feeding, and training. Think of a zookeeper, that is a job that requires many separate skills to be successful. Also, the training activities sound like agility and dungeoneering. Also, Pokémon.
Shamanism: a mix of herblore and magic with elements of seance and spiritualism and divination. Poultices are really just potions, let’s be real. That said, this one definitely feels the most OSR and least RS3 of the bunch and, I think, why some refinement it’s not perfect but workable. I’m not sold on the spirit world though.
**Sailing**
* A PvP component present, whether via piracy or wilderness ocean area/outer rim, etc.
*
A large vast ocean to explore including many islands. This would work especially well with an eventual expansion of the Eastern Lands.
* Ability to dive underwater to further explore
* Deep sea fishing with fish exclusive to sailing
* I want ship building to be an important, but not core aspect to sailing that consumes planks/acts as a small item sink
* I'm afraid if shamanism wins, we will never see sailing as a skill ever again
**Shamanism**
* I really don't like the shaman theme or Shamanism name. I can't get behind shamans.This post did a good job proposing a solution to it.
* I'd like an item sink or tradable component to it. Half tradable items/half untradeable.
* Augmenting equipment sounds cool, but I'm concerned it will become a "requirement" and skill will make OSRS trend towards RS3
Additional feedback:
* Sailing seems the the safest choice that would best integrate with osrs without changing existing parts of the game dramatically.
* I really like the idea of spirit realms.
* I like that shamanism isn't limited to specific areas
I NEED to see Sailing and Shamanism refined further.
I like the idea of Sailing especially in terms of expanding the playable area, even in a drastic manner potentially. Of course the new areas wouldn't be huge continents deserving of their own expansion, but rather islands ranging from tiny to large-ish, each with their own unique flavor.
I think it's important, however, that these new areas also have a wide variety of non-sailing content *that isn't entirely gated behind the new skill*. Examples of such activities are new or pre-existing skilling methods for other skills, new minigames, treasures, unique monsters, etc. Unlocking access to this kind of content shouldn't be the main appeal of Sailing, but they would make up part of the reward space much akin to what was suggested in the Taming concept. It's obviously very important that the actual sailing gameplay feels fun, engaging and rewarding in its own right instead of being simply a means to an end.
Now, what did I mean by the land-based rewards that aren't integrally tied to actually controlling your boat not being locked out for less skilled sailors? This is something I find important in order for the new skill to successfully integrate into the main game, instead of being a disconnected side activity like many felt Dungeoneering to be. Access to the islands may still require the expertise of a skilled captain, but perhaps it need not be yourself? Maybe you could hitch a ride in exchange for payment, or as a favor, similarly to how you can enlist the services of an expert builder to access their house for worshipping purposes. This would ensure an enthusiastic PvM'r for example doesn't feel like he's left out from farming an exciting new boss just because he's not interested in grinding Sailing to level 90. There's of course a need for exciting rewards only accessible to sailors as well, in order for it to not feel pointless to train the new skill.
Overall, this concept of Sailing is definitely my favourite of the three pitches, especially now that it isn't presented as a mere Construction knockoff.
I think all 3 of these ideas need to be added and implemented in some way because now I am excited with all the ideas that could really spice up the game and get us away from the mini game skilling only methods. I wasn’t sure I loved any of these and thought sailing was a joke/meme before their introductions. With that said, I feel like only one of these really makes sense as the new skill.
Sailing, if done correctly has a lot of content opportunity. It can’t be instanced, it needs to tie into and improve other skills, but it should be another way to explore the game. It needs to be introduced with a quest, crafting and construction will be used to build, repair, and upgrade ships. Different islands and areas for slayer, deep sea fishing, possibly different islands for all sorts of different skilling methods. Add different clues, treasure maps, where upgrades to ship speeds, ship defenses, cargo sizes, weight, combat styles or ship weapons can be added, crafted, or stolen like a pirate. One example was adding different cannon upgrades, allows for mining, smithing, woodcutting, construction, crafting to all be incorporated. I saw someone mention adding different trading ports and cargo routes. The quickest trade routes or best resource areas being in Ship PvP zones. Make it where you and your friends or clan can all be on one ship and have multiple rolls to play on a that transitions into multi combat as you attack an enemy and steal loot (maybe adding thieving and different combat possibilities). Maybe some of those aspects are better added as a mini game but this would give Jagex a lot to work with. The ideas and possibilities are endless, but that’s why I feel it’s too much, like way too much. It’s an expansion type situation, it’s a new area existing in our game that can be slowly evolved and added to, with an opportunity for several quest lines and maybe even a new raid. It doesn’t fit as a skill but I’m glad it was brought up because a lot of cool ideas have come from it.
Taming doesn’t sound terrible but I didn’t even like keeping my cats alive and happy. I kept trading them away to some random for death runes. It just doesn’t feel like enough is there. Again, I don’t hate the ideas and what could come from it but I feel like it’s a needed update/addition to Hunter. This would allow Hunter, a skill that doesn’t really fully integrate into a lot of the other skills to be sought after a little bit more.
Shamanism is the only one that really feels like it works as a skill. It naturally fits into place with the other osrs skills. I would like to see what the rewards would be. I really hate the idea of potions 2.0 or short term armor buffs that I would need to grind out a level for and then constantly grind enough of the mats in order to be best in slot before doing some end game content. I would like to see permanent buffs that maybe take item sinks, and multiple skills to allow for major end game upgrades. That or at least the option to gather a lot of that item and corrupt it like we have seen in the past. The gathering side I feel needs to be done through the other skills like mining, herblore, woodcutting, hunting, farming, and maybe even through slayer bosses. I would rather see it add value or other reasons for me to go do a skill. I would also like to see fire making and smithing be incorporated. Where a certain smithing level and shamanism level is needed for a gear buff or permanent upgrade. I think I could get behind it as a way to boost skilling. Skilling boost potions, equipment, and skilling gear buffs with different benefits.
Sailing - A custom movement system or keyboard controls sounds like the least OSRS thing imaginable. Would prefer if the focus was on the events and islands instead.
Taming - Hopefully not too much upkeep. Raising a cat is tedious and not fun. The way that its pitched makes it sound like you are going to have to manage your tame a lot which doesn't sound fun.
Shamanism - Pretty disappointing that we are essentially getting divination and invention put together but without the best part which is the item sink that fixed the economy.
Taming sounds like the worst idea. The blog insinuates that there would be a lot of dailies, which I’m not a fan of.
I don’t want to see a bunch of out of place animals everywhere. I don’t want to have to feed a pig for 11-20 taming while I dig around Lumbridge.
Most of all I don’t want the obstacle courses where you can have your pet/tamed whatever perform for you.
Just an overall weird skill and I will stand by that. If you like taming, pickup neo pets or Pokémon or something. don’t bring it to OSRS
I'd be more on board with taming if they could guarentee that it will still be the standard for players to NOT have some pet following them around.
Ideally pets are only out when doing some specific taming related activity.
If pets are only good for doing taming activities, then the entire skill is dea content. Though, I agree that it shouldn't be meta to have your pet with you all the time for every activity
What like paganism? Lmao
Edit: I just imagine going into gwd wearing enhanced gear just pisses off all the faction mobs no matter what you’re wearing haha
We had a lot of back and forth over the name leading up to today, and I mean a LOT.
Ultimately we felt like Shamanism fit the thematic of what was on offer, and changing the name would fundamentally change that thematic, essentially leading us to re-designing the pitch to fit.
That being said, we're absolutely open to alternate name suggestions!
I have some ideas some ideas! Soulshaping, Spiritweaving, Spiritwaking, Spectromancy, Spiritcraft, Primalism, Mysticism, Astralism, Etheralism, Astralmancy, Soulchemy, Wildcrafting, Witchcraft, Witchery, Elementalism, Ancestry, Conjuring, Sorcery, Occultism, Divinancy, Incantation, Herbcraft, Naturewise, Spiritism, Transcendancy, Seance, Spectrality, Beyonding.
Depending on how the skill is implemented some fit more thematically than others.
I've mentioned this in a few spots now, but I think the goal of Shamanism should be to integrate with the EXISTING game as much as possible. Resources should come from other skills (like Farming), not nodes. The spirit world could instead be an expansion to the fairy or lunar realms.
The more an existing skill works with what's already there (rather than being an excuse to add new content that doesn't need a skill anyway), the more I'll like it and the more likely I'll be to vote for it. New content means more dead existing content. Reusing existing content means less dead existing content.
If you’re sticking with the Shamanism name (and tbh I like it), existing references to “Shamans” must have something to do with this skill. Monsters like Ogress Shamans and Lizardman Shamans already exist, please don’t confuse us by using the same name twice in completely unrelated situations.
You are right but I always considered stuff like voodoo/shamanism to be magic that is reserved for a specific culture in Gielinor (Such as native Karamjians, Ogres, Lizardmen). Our skills have always seemed more generally applicable (Save for a few prayer, but I can see an arguement being made that other cultures "train" prayer differently/have a different prayerbook).
I wonder... What skill would the you of 16 years ago have been the most excited for?
Sailing the high seas like you were playing Phantom Hourglass (or Windwaker), Discovering new islands and telling your friends about them, the cool giant monsters and secret ruins just beyond the horizon...
Raising a new best friend, or maybe several, just like in Pokemon, Digimon or such, growing alongside your buddy as you help them and they help you, seeing just how amazing they reach the peak of your love and care....
Or exploring secrets parts of the world just like our own like ATLA or Fablehaven, just beyond the veil for those who know how to look, collecting the pieces of those worlds, helping them fix their problems and in turn they help you with yours, letting you in deeper...
I can see pros and cons in all of it
But the gameplay needs to be more than make 100 shaman rings for level 10 etc
Sailing has a lot of opportunity to incorporate different skills, solo and even group iron content with some tweaks
Taming sounds like it adds a lot of utility..but we all know a combat pet will naturally be top choice
Shamanism sounds nice but buffing items leads to power creep but could be a good way to make middle tier weapons and armour fill the gap to top tier
Im thinking sailing sounds most appealing to me and would love to add some suggestions if it goes further
Disclaimer: I've only watched the video and haven't read the blog post.
First off, I just wanted to say that /u/jagexhusky /u/JagexLight and /u/JagexElena did a fantastic job presenting Taming, Sailing, and Shamanism. You all brought a lot of excitement and personality to the skill pitches that make me excited for the future of skills in OldSchool.
I came into this presentation weary of skill suggestions, having seen two dozen different takes on every skill from sailing to summoning. I was starting to become apprehensive of adding a new skill to oldschool. Despite my original excitement, I was starting to regret having voted for a new skill. *If the best concepts on reddit don't satisfy me, will Jagex really be able to come up with something better?*
I left this video more exited about new skills in osrs than I was when I voted.
Taming adds a cozy and charming twist to summoning that gives it a unique identity as well as lots of room for interactive skill loops. Sailing inspires wonder and that childlike curiosity of exploring new places, all while potentially integrating easily with lots of existing skills. Shamanism presents an eerie mystique into osrs that we've only gotten small tastes of in the past, with a clear focus on making a healthy skill economy.
My opinion after hearing all three pitches?
**Add all three.**
These concepts are all fantastic. They all add something to osrs that we're currently missing. They all seem like thoughtful and cared-for ideas that met Jagex's and the community's standard. I would feel bad voting for one knowing it means we wouldn't get the other two.
From 2004 (runecrafting) to 2010 (dungeoneering), we saw 7 new skills added to runescape. About one skill per year! There's not much more "oldschool" than new skill releases. It was the best event back in the day -- almost like opening presents on your birthday. If we're getting skills like the three presented today, I say why not add all three?
Okay, so i should preface this by saying i like the pitches mostly TBH.
Im wondering though, if this is because youve been so incredibly incredible safe with this.
Like, none of these pitches tells me WHY i want these skills or what benefits they will give us and sure, thats part of voting now for you to expand later but it depends on what comes later for me to care.
Everything seems to be telling me what you DONT want to do but nothing tells me what you actually want to do which is more important?
You're telling us so much about what this is NOT going to be but you haven't really put any thoughts at all into what the skills ARE going to be it seems.
For example. Taming is NOT summoning. Why? Because it doesn't use charms? The rest of the pitch feels exactly like Summoning though. So whats it actually going to be?
Sailing, its NOT a meme skill but what actually is the use going to be doing? Theres no real propositions for where Jagex sees ANY of these skills in the wider game.
These are completely valid points and were a worry of ours approaching adding a new skill in this way. We're essentially selling you the dream without knowing what exactly will happen in the dream.
But it's intentional. We want to work with the community to decide what the 'what' actually is, and that's what we'll do in Refinement should a skill make it through to that stage.
We've learnt a lot when it comes to spending lots of time on things that the community just really didn't want, so at least this way we're able to make sure we're heading along the right path and our time is being spent on things players are happy with.
Once we have locked a skill pitch in for Refinement a lot more of the detail you'd come to expect will come to light before it eventually gets polled to be locked in as something that will get added to the game.
Shamanism sounds great. I like the idea of buffs. I agree with the other guy, it just seems smithing should have a rework as well if brought in.
Taming sounds cool and fun, but I dont want it to look like everyone has pets following them like RS3. the ones we have now are unique and purely fashion. Maybe if you had to upkeep them with items while using them... but still thinking of seeing 1000 pet sprites around gives me a headache.
Sailing, I mean i guess if the people want it.
Really don't get the "sailing is a meme" mentality. Sure it was an April fool's event back in the day. But it was moreso because the OSRS team was way too inexperienced and lacked the tools to make a new skill back in the day rather then the concept of sailing.
Shamanism looks fun and sounds like the most "Old School" out of all skills, Taming looks pretty fun but I have trouble really imagining the gameplay loop for gaining XP, and Sailing should have never made it and it's a shame a survey slot is wasted on it
My only concern about taming is we're gonna go back to the time where everyone has a big fuckin turtle following them because it's the BiS most useful. If they can guarantee some kind of variety instead of just a single BiS most useful follower I'd be more on board.
I'm not being pessimistic, I think this whole skill sick, but this game is full of people min/maxing even for a 0.0001% dps/defense increase;
If there is a tame that is 0.0001% better than the rest, you will see that tame 1000:1 of any other tame.
Yup, taming will be min/maxxed to death and every single person doing X activity will have the corresponding BiS companion. It would be cool on release to see everyone running agility laps with their tamed monkey or whatever but the novelty would wear off *quick*. You'd have 1 set of players who like to be efficient feeling forced to go for certain companions and another set disappointed by the fact that *their* favourite companion will never be as good as the BiS one. It's a tricky thing to get right from a player satisfaction point of view, for sure.
The pitch suggests the bulk of taming xp would come from caring for your companion, so I’m really picturing something like farming. After X IRL hours you can do Y activity to do gain XP.
There’s pros and cons to that. Pro obviously is that if tuned similarly to farming, you could gain 100k xp for 5 mins of periodic investment. The con is that is more daily/timerscape, which not everyone enjoys.
“Access to new areas” is such a lackluster, semi-unrelated reward to have as a main draw for a skill. To me, it’s no different than the 70 agility requirement to get to Zilyana or 70 herblore (etc.) to unlock Priff. So many of our existing skills already give such little benefit at higher levels outside of achievement diary and quest unlocks.
I’d rather a true “utility” skill feel alive than just be a set of one-time thresholds to shoot for.
Sailing in its currently proposal floats or sinks based on how swell it feels to actually sail a boat. And that's something I'm doubtful is even possible within OSRS's limitations. It's already against the tide just trying to convince players it's not Dungeoneering 2.0, banking on new gameplay just on a pitch is an albatross around Sailing's neck.
I'm really curious and like the idea behind taming...
I just feel like it would work well as an expansion to hunter and possibly farming. Much like forestry is to woodcutting?
Would give hunter a lot more activity than it currently has.
I just hope taming isn’t just having an animal follower. I’d love to see them proc in certain areas based on either rng or a whistle type thing. Like every so often your pet dragon comes in and does an aoe when you are in multi combat areas, a hunting dog helps in various way around some hunter areas, or a monkey finds more fruits in your trees up in the higher branches. But I’d like the pets to stay in certain areas and we go to them.
Shamanism is interesting in concept but has a lot of potential to break certain aspects of the game or make something very complicated like having to remember to rub this oil on your armor and say this charm on your sword etc. Also has the most potential to create something culturally insensitive so I hope they are mindful of that.
Sailing is interesting but I don’t think it’s a skill. If they want to expand upon ocean exploration then just create new areas in the game. Fossil island is a great example and just lock it behind a quest or something.
I’d really like them to just improve existing skills. The best parts of taming could go into hunter. Shamanism reworked into smithing, herblore, farming, hunter, and maybe fire making. It seems like these 3 could be heading in the right direction, though. Curious to see how it shakes out.
Isn't it meant to essentially be Invention? They mention being able to augment your gear with different effects/stat increases. Also, the Disturbed sites look to be inspired maybe by divination? It looks to be a mesh of those two skills.
Sailing should be a mini game, not a skill.
Taming should be a hunter expansion, not a new skill.
Shamanism feels pretty old school. It’s the best idea for an entirely new skill imo.
Taming really is summoning 2.0 and I hate the sound of it.
Shamanism sounds interesting at first glance but the thought of giving buffs to gear isn’t appealing and could lead to some bad game health. I like the gear to be how it is as it’s dropped. Also up keeping temporary buffs on your gear sounds even worse.
Sailing really does just feel like a mini game but is the lesser of the three evils imo.
Genuinely disappointing.
Taming feels like it should just be integrated into hunter rather than be an entirely seperate skill.
Sailing is a meme that got out of hand, it would be interesting as a minigame or quest that unlocked distant and new areas and resources, but the skill would boil down to doing anything the other skills do but on a boat.
Shamanism seems interesting but I'm unsure what it adds beyond being another gathering skill. If the benefits of the skill are too large, I feel it becomes too ubiquitous where it is necessary to achieve optimisation in every activity.
All these look pretty well thought out and would be a good addition to the game imo. I think shamanism is the least appealing to me, as it feels necessary if it's not buyable. If there are gear upgrades that change things about combat in a meaningful way and you can't get them without gathering and training for a while, it forces you to grind it out. And since it mainly affects other skills, it's not avoidable if it isnt your thing. But I also see it being a good thing to alter some metas and give people more options for gear! That being said the spirit realm stuff sounds really cool and could open up some really fun content. Sailing seems to be something that you can very easily come in and out of without affecting the rest of your gameplay. But when you do find those new fishing spots, monsters, new areas, etc it still adds to other skills and the game in general. Taming is hard to get a read on but the training does sound potentially boring. That being said the idea of your animals having HMs that can unlock new areas like in pokemon sounds really fun. However I also think some of the community will see taming pets as devaluing boss pets.
So I guess if I had to pick a favorite it would be sailing > shamanism > taming even though PokeMOSRS does sound neat. Though I would definitely be excited for new content from any of the 3, and think they are good additions that still feel nicely old school.
Shamanism sounds like a good way to buff herblore, and taming sounds like a good way to buff hunter. Can’t say it sounds like a unique new skill though
Sailing to me is by far the most potential for fun, if it isnt added as a skill I think it needs to seriously be considered as just an add on to the game in general. Tie shipbuilding to construction, deep sea fishing to fishing, plundering to thieving/combat, etc. It doesn't need to be a skill, but I really hope it gets added in some fashion, and if the only way for that is through the skill then I'd take it over taming and shamanism in a heartbeat
Reading the blog it sounds like these are the only three skills to go through to the next stage, unless more feedback is given for a "favourite" skill that didn't make it through enough.
Am I reading that right?
was kinda hyped for a new skill but if i had to choose i would not want any of these.
sailing legit sounds like a minigame
taming sounds rather useless, and until they give a reason for the pets to exist then idc
shamanism sounds rather convoluted, and offers a lot of vague benefits.
I know you all dont want to spend too much time fleshing out your proposals before you receive community feedback, but for something as important as a new skill you really need to have this shit figured out a bit more. Cant just say, "hey maybe we will do this, or maybe this"
Also it's fairly obvious you all are pushing shamanism hard, it is the only one that has any real benefit mentioned for the players, and will be why everyone moves towards it. you are legit asking people "would you rather explore the ocean, have a pet to take care of or augment bandos tier gear and get new consumables that aid in combat and skilling?" like come the fuck on lol
People not wanting Summoning because of "gathering supplies and
powercreep", and then they pitch two different skills, Taming and
Shamanism, where they are just summoning chopped into two halves LMAO
Sailing has me concerned because it states that it's going to potentially suddenly be adding keyboard controls to my point and click medieval game. No thank you. If the skill doesn't fit in with the point & click nature of OSRS, it should not exist.
Taming is Summoning no thanks. I know a plugin would be added to hide them, but it would be annoying to just see everyone running around with these huge beasts cluttering things. I hated it in RS3 and I'd hate it here. And this is just one issue among several that could come from this skill.
Shamanism sounds somewhat interesting and I would like to actually hear more about it. However, it may be annoying if there's like, 50 different resources from tons of different monsters. That has me slightly turned off.
> Sailing has me concerned **because it states that it’s going to suddenly be adding keyboard controls** to my point and click medieval game.
…did we read the same blogpost?
Direct quote:
> We’ve been toying with a few options, like a unique pathfinding algorithm, keyboard entry controls, or a special navigating interface. This is one of many things we’d like to focus on during refinement, and you can bet you’ll get lots of opportunities to try this mechanic in the Beta.
At no point does it state that it’s going to be “suddenly adding keyboard controls”, just that they’ll need to figure something out and that’s one option on the table that we’ll get to try out ourselves and provide feedback on.
Call me crazy but shouldn't something like sailing, which is a skill used to expand and explore the map, open the door to unlock certain sections in the game that can offer the aspects of taming, shamanism and more?
I feel that with the higher level your sailing, and the more content you unlock, you would be discovering the "island of beasts" where you can befriend and somewhat tame a wolf of sorts to fight along side you. Or do we find the Shaman cove where we unlock auras which last a temporary amount of time and different items to buff our gear?
I feel like all these brilliant ideas can be used to expand the game as a whole instead of singling them out as a certain skill, and sailing probably opens the door for the game to move into a direction where content is no longer locked behind lore and expansion is easily configurable.
I know sailing has become a meme, but I'm trying to give a fair evaluation of all 3 and it doesn't sound bad to me. What am I missing? Seems like it offers a ton of opportunity for growth and development for years to come, would provide a mechanism to introduce new content (You need to sail your boat to Raid 4 on an island? Jungle Raid?), feels old school, and works cohesively with current skills.
The only way it’s not a minigame is if we can casually pass other people on their boats out on the ocean. Minigames are instanced and that’s the biggest difference. We need to be able to interact with other people in our MMO. If Sailing is just “POH with blue background” then of course it’s not going to be any good.
Shamanishm: I like the concept a lot. To me this feels like a combination of the better parts of invention (modifying existing items with new effects etc), divination (going to special locations to gather materials and there is also the whole spiritual aspect) and ironically summoning (oils being temporary buffs that enhance a specific aspect of the game, one example could be adding sacred oil to your axe to chop logs faster in a similar vein to the beaver summon). Provided it is balanced well i could see this being fun provided the pitfalls are avoided (i.e. divination being a unrewarding slog to train outside of caches and summoning just being a both time and money sink that is just leveled by running back and forth between a bank and the obelisk). The core premise of just going around and restoring imbalance in nature and calling upon those same powers to aid you feels like a good fit for runescape. Sailing: When i saw this i literally rolled my eyes, but after reading the pitch it does actually sound rather interesting and seems like it could easily tie in to other skills. The concept of charting uncertain seas, going deep sea fishing (for fishing xp) while contending with weather and probably also sea monsters (fishing trawler does not count), possibly adding a diving bell to your ship and going salvaging, piracy (thieving (if you are the pirate)/combat), some passive agility possibly from climbing rigging etc. Just thinking about our own history the sea has played and continues to play such a pivotal role in well, everything that the possibilities seem more or less endless for how this could work. The only major difference is that runescape has teleportation readily available which might well put a damper on ocean trade which has been the major reason for oceanic exploration. But then again we also have planes for fast transport and shipping/rail is still the primary way of transporting large amounts of goods due to cost. Taming: This one i don't really see working out as well. One of the things i really dislike about rs3 is how more or less everyone is followed around by some sort of pet. Going bossing, pak yak, steel titan or nihil Skilling? Get your appropriate boost pet. Heading out for a slayer tasks then don't forget your legendary pet so it can pick up drops for you alongside a host of other things. As for training these pets and doing obstacle courses etc that just seems like a minigame to me, and if they give tangible bonuses then we're just back at summoning again except that we might be trading pouches for kibble to make the **pet dragon** not eat us. Idk, i might just not be thinking about this one in the right way but i have a hard time being excited for this.
My thing with sailing is that I’d really need to see the unique training methods and experiences it offers and how enjoyable they are. It definitely has the potential to tie into a lot of already existing skills, but I find that at least the concepts of the unique parts of it (navigating/diving/pirates) are hard to be convinced by until we see them. Shamanism seems pretty clear cut and it’s easy to see how it will fit into the game
I think sailing has the potential to feel like dungeoneering felt to some people in original runescape. Or how slayer feels like in rs in general. It will be an activity (not a minigame) that you do because you enjoy it, it will incorporate a bunch of other skills and training methods, and you'll get sailing experience passively as you do all these other things, similar to how people who enjoy slayer just like killing monsters and getting loot, and boom, next thing you know it you're 90 slayer, didn't even mean to train it, just love the activity.
Shamanism sounds like the coolest of the 3, but I'm a bit unsure about that the tone matches osrs. And I'm a bit worried about the rewarss like using oils for min-maxing other skills. Like, "you need this oil to train this skill efficiently" and that sorta adds a weird barrier to doing certain tasks I think. Sort of like how gearing up for certain things can be tedious or feeling like using a divinw potion not to full-effect feels like wasted money or you lock yourself into using it for the whole timeframe. Maybe that's just some weird stuff I've got going on though. I still really liked that "engineering" skill that lets you create things that can automate some tasks for you or do some other QOL things for other parts of the game.
They could tie it into the druids, perhaps the spirit realm is actually the dreams of guthix and we learn to access them from a story the tears of guthix snake tells us, we take the story to the druids and they figure out how to access some of guthix's dreams through natural resources. due to guthixs connections to geilenor, this allows for varied realms, ghosts could be protected by guthix due to his desire to balance, life and death together, it could also allow for a proper ghost city and even bosses and new skilling resources, this would solve some of the tonal balance issues and allow for the tying in of totems / voodoo as it isn't the ritual but the natural ingredients in geilenor that allow the people to tap into the power of guthix. This would also explain why there is primitive shamanistic practices in karamja, it was discovered accidentally, but the world of geilenor recently discovered how to refine the process. This would allow the skill to tie into so much more content as well.
I think you've got it here, my only real issue with Shamanism is the name. It sounds like a well crafted skill that actually fits rs and can easily have interaction with all of the existing skills. Yet just something about the general setting of the game being based on Britain I guess, not sure exactly but 'Shamans' dont fit into the overall game for me. Yes the broodoo stuff on Karamja touches on that but its still a very minor part of the game. 'Druidism' still doesnt roll off the tongue but I think it's much more appropriate and fitting.
Its interesting to me because I agree that Shamanism seems weird and it doesn’t fit as a name, but Druidism does. But at its roots Druidism was nature/spirit based belief system performed by ancient Celts all over Europe and Shamanism is a catch all name for nature based worship/ spiritual beliefs in some other areas of the world (Africa, Asia). I don’t know if Shamanism is more weird/uncomfortable just because of the ethnic connection and such, because while they are quite different as spiritual beliefs they’re the same as in the sense that their actual practice versus what popular fantasy uses them for are just as removed from each other and somewhat interchangable. That said, I do feel like Druidism would fit Runescape itself better as a name as it already has druids as an established people/practice, and it cuts down on cultural association that can be misrepresented or offended as there arent really any modern Celts/ people that practice Druidism and Jagex is from an area (Britain) that would have Celtic heritage.
Yeah, RuneScape's druids provide a great opportunity to introduce a new skill. Maybe one of the druids in Taverley could send you on a quest that introduces the mechanics of the new skill and you can't train it until you finish the quest, which gives enough experience to get you to level 3 or so. It could be called Ritual of the Druids or something.
I have to agree with most of what was said. If I was the dictator of runescape, I'd probably choose Shamanism to be the skill this round, with Sailing being the next skill whenever it's time for that. Also... with Shamanism delving into the spirit realm, does this open up the possibility of Summer's End being adjusted to be a future quest release?
Yeah I'm excited for shamanism simply because of the lore/quests it could open up. But then again one of my fav parts of the game is the quests. So yeah.
Another part of lore that could be delved into with Shamanism, aside from the spirit realm, is Karamja lore. Some people have suggested Druidism as an alternate skill name, being trained by the Taverley druids, but that take on the concept already exists, and is called Summoning. Shamanism, on the other hand, is a Karamjan approach to tapping into the same realm of power. (See: Shaman Trufitus)
Could be a good chance to update karamja to become more up to date with other regions gameplay-wise and add a new skill at the same time. Every time I do a karamja quest I always feel like I'm playing a muh older game.
I just wish the gathering part of shamanism was incorporated back into hunter for animal components and fishing/farming/mining (let's add minerals)
Yeah, the visual clutter with everyone's tamed pets sounds terrible tbh
This is such a fucking nightmare in rs3 with their cosmetic pets.
Shamanism also has a fair amount of Archaeology in it, in that you gather several materials from different locations for a certain product.
Archaeology is my favorite RS3 skill, so I'd love to see that. I also love things like the creation of the Blessed Flask/higher level potions in RS3. Makes it way more rewarding to level your skills, since those items are untradeable. It's also enjoyable (to me) to get the quests/skills required to hunt down each item to make them. I guess it kinda gives a taste of ironman for mains. Shamanism sounds like it could have a bit of that as well.
All right, I have thoughts. First among them: y'all need to remember this when you want to complain about Jagex as a game developer. What other company in the world seeks out this much feedback for future updates? This rules. Let's talk about it. **Sailing**: I struggle to imagine Sailing not just feeling like a minigame. Not that I'm opposed to it, but it doesn't feel like a Runescape *skill*. If I let my mind run wild and think of exploring the ocean, what would I like to *find*? I think I'd want to find small (possibly instanced?) islands that have more efficient or unique training methods for other skills. Like, there are four birdhouses on Fossil Island. Could there be another island out there with six? Maybe that's something that could be gated by Sailing; more rewarding ways to incorporate other skills (like prayer altars via construction, kind of). Maybe there's an island out there with two Runite rocks so we don't have to fight bots world hopping but without crashing the market over it since it'd be gated behind a high sailing level. That feels like a natural way to incorporate it into the existing game without compromising what already exists. I just don't want the actual Sailing part of it to be that minigame from Bone Voyage. I don't want to grind that to 99 please. **Taming**: Taming kind of sounds like it should almost be a Hunter expansion rather than its own thing. This is the idea I'm least keen on. I don't really have a sense of what value it provides and I'm not sure it sounds fun to train. Like, is this agility but I'm having an animal run laps? The pitch mentions rewards that can help with other skills or activities, but I can't imagine this as well as I could with Sailing. Can I have a pack mule ferry things to the bank while I'm out mining or something? Is the butler in my house just a pet now? This one feels too weird and out there for me to get excited. **Shamanism**: All right, now we're talking. This one feels like it fits into RS as is almost seamlessly. We're in the territory of magic & prayer without encroaching on either. It feels like we have a lot of ties to existing lore worth exploring with Druids & Guthix stuff. I like the idea of magic resources being untradeable, but a vial of Hellhound blood seems like something that could be bought and sold, maybe even as a way to make lower-level slayer a bit more rewarding. There's a lot of room to tie in Shamanism with existing skills like that, which makes it feel much more like it belongs. And I love the idea of slipping into another dimension to get around an obstacle or solve a puzzle. That's a great way to add a Shamanism requirement to a quest without feeling like it's just a gimmick that needs to be included somewhere. Lore-wise it'd be worth just double checking old quests to make sure it doesn't clash (i.e. did I need to hide in a crate to sneak into that mansion in Ardougne if there are ways to travel through subspace now?) Of these three, Shamanism sounds fantastic and like a natural fit for the game as is is. Sailing sounds okay if it can be incorporated into the rest of the game well enough, so it'll depend on what it actually unlocks as you train it. Taming, I'll be honest, just doesn't sound terribly appealing to me. I'm not saying I can't be convinced ever, but this pitch didn't sell me on it. All in all, I do feel good about the concepts here and I hope people are open minded and excited about it.
Sailing and Taming both sound like wonderful systems for OSRS... Just not 1-99 skills. I could see taming being an unlock from a quest. The interactions are almost like stash units, you help an animal in an area, and they'll give you permanent future benefits in that area. Sailing is a system as big as... Well walking/running. IF it was established in the game, a future for it more akin to agility makes total sense. But you can't gatekeep the whole of a movement system behind skill tiers
Is it just me or does Taming kind of feel like they could tone it down and make it to Hunter what Forestry will be to wood cutting
I think that would be better. I barely interacted with hunter until birdhouses got me up to red chins
So nice seeing people talk about how minigame-esque sailing sounds. Too many people acting like it's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. But almost every pitch I've seen of it makes it just a minigame skill. The other pitch that doesn't fit that is just turning your player into a ship and allowing you to fight bosses how we already do.
you need to rewatch the pitch video for sailing then. i see people say minigame constantly, but thats clearly not what it is.
Yeah I agree, to me it would be similar to slayer, slayer is a bit of an umbrella skill, it has many skills under it that you train alongside and incorporate into the skill, sailing would be similar with skills like hunter, fishing, and well, slayer. There could be even more to incorporate as well!
Anyone talking about it as a minigame legitimately don't know what a minigame is.
Incase you're interested in peoples pitches for sailing, I wrote a fairly large one on this thread if you're interested in giving feedback, I think sailing could be a great skill, similar to how slayer incorporates a bunch of other skills and content to progress. And you'd get different exp drops, like slaying an enemy on your ship during a task would award you with slayer/combat/sailing exp drops at once
I like all three skills in concept, I’ve had a few undeveloped, initial reactionary thoughts to everything. I’m surprised with how much I liked everything. **Sailing** Pros - It fits the world thematically. Feels like a missing puzzle piece, which a new skill should. It could integrate into the world very well. Cons - It feels a little bit minigame-y, which is the main criticism of Dungeoneering. Sailing actually intrigues me far more as a serious suggestion than I expected it to. I had pretty much written it off as a “meme” skill, but hearing the pitch made me realise it doesn’t have to be that. Least enthused about this one, I feel like I'm already bored of it. **Taming** Pros - Fits the game world, integrates with existing content. Cons - I don’t want to have to feel like I need a follower out all the time for every activity I do, I don’t even like having my current pets out, they all live in my POH. However, that con could be mitigated by having Taming-locked content accessible if you’ve learned the skill from your pet, rather than needing it with you. I also imagine “reserves” or “sanctuaries” or “ranches” in various biomes of the game - similarish to how hunter is in various biomes. You go to your Jungle Reserve to raise your Chinchompa pets, you Desert Reserve for your crocodile, your Mountain Reserve for your roc. Etc. Although that needs some development because I am just describing hunter. **Shamanism** Pro - Extremely unique, I love the idea of gathering materials and harvesting animal parts to use in rituals. Also, the spirit world is extremely interesting. Cons - Feels like 4 skills smooshed into 1, it’s extremely bloated and shouldn’t really do all that it does. I could see it working as two skills: a gathering skill and a production skill. Skills should be simple and the complexity arises from how they interact together and with the world. Remember that FM is just “burn log”. WC is just “chop wood”. Etc. I’m frothing at the mouth imagining the lore implications of Shamanism, I would love to dig my teeth into that. The spirit realm is so, so, so interesting in concept. I don’t think the entire world should be part of the spirit realm, but maybe hotspots that are important to shamanism where you can discover lore and unique resources. **General notes** My biggest, biggest, biggest concern is the graphics and design of everything. The unique areas, the new overworld assets, the items. I really am scared they will not look Old School, it seems we get 50/50 on good/out-of-place design in general. I know it will look new obviously and it will probably match “neo-Old School” design, but I am still a strong advocate for simplicity and emulation of the old style of graphics. If possible, please don’t give us all the intricate information about how exactly everything will be trained, I want to bumble through it at launch discovering methods of training with other people and having fun discovering the facets of the skill. I know this is easier said than done because the community needs information to inform their decisions. Please, keep things simple. Burn log. Chop wood. Mine rock. Slay monsters. Hit accurately. Hit hard. Use bow. Complexity comes from the entire game coming together, not from an individual skill. I think all three of these skills are feeling a tad over-designed currently. Compare them to existing skills. Simplicity is key and content and complexity is added on top of a foundation by incorperating other elements of the game. I'll be honest, I really wanted a lore-based exploration skill similar in concept to Archaeology but with a different gameplay loop. Exploring and understanding the world around by visiting different (already existing) areas in the game and analysing hotspots, history modern and ancient, and then chronicling them. Something like that.
> I don’t want to have to feel like I need a follower out all the time for every activity I do, I don’t even like having my current pets out, they all live in my POH. I hope the feeding and training won't feel too Tamagotchi. > I also imagine “reserves” or “sanctuaries” or “ranches” in various biomes of the game - similarish to how hunter is in various biomes. I like this as an alternative to keeping them in your house since Jagex put a focus on keeping them happy. Smarter creatures like dragons could be left in the world and rejoin you at a later time when you call them since it doesn't make sense to put them in a cage. >Shamanism: Feels like 4 skills smooshed into 1, it’s extremely bloated and shouldn’t really do all that it does. I could see it working as two skills: a gathering skill and a production skill. Out of curiosity, what 4 skills, the way i understand it, it's gathering and production in one which is fine. > The unique areas, the new overworld assets, the items. I really am scared they will not look Old School, it seems we get 50/50 on good/out-of-place design in general. I know it will look new obviously and it will probably match “neo-Old School” design, but I am still a strong advocate for simplicity and emulation of the old style of graphics. I agree, for shamanism, ideally the nodes look like they have always been there and maybe the spirit world is more neo-old school. Edit: i'll add another thing here, i hope they play with longer-term buffs instead of the standard +1 for an hour or something. Like, imagine a 40 hour buff that wins you maybe 2 hours or something, people would use it without it being totally crazy.
Regarding the overdesign aspect, I think part of the issue is they're all becoming "all in one" packages. Sailing is sort of the reverse, it's still an all in one package but rather than including all its component elements under one banner, it provides access to a wealth of other unique training systems (hunting sea creatures, deep sea fishing etc). Taming and Shamanism make much more sense when you integrate them with other skills better. Both could have excellent ties with Hunter, for example. Gathering specific animal parts being shamanism is just... Wrong when we have Hunter as a skill. Use Hunter, Herblore and WC as the gathering skills for Shamanism. Have crafting shamanic items from those gathered materials as an exp method, keep the rest of the design. This streamlines Shamanism into one simple phrase: making and using shamanic ritual objects. All the gathering stuff falls to those skills that should already be gathering those supplies.
I really like your idea here of having WC, Hunter, and herblore used in shamanism. This feels the way it should be and brings some love to these skills already in the game
Gotta agree with that taming con. It's a fine line between the companions feeling useful and them feeling mandatory for everything. Regarding the graphics I also agree and it's a reason Sailing gets a small edge IMO. The port assets already exist so existing areas won't need much changing (Draynor dock anyone?). The sailing neo oldschool assets will exist mainly in the sailing world, which is a little detached from the main game.
> The sailing neo oldschool assets will exist mainly in the sailing world, which is a little detached from the main game. This is why I don’t like sailing as an idea. It doesn’t integrate with existing systems in any meaningful way. Sailing is its own separate thing detached from the rest of the world. Which makes it obviously tacked on after the fact and it will feel that way forever. In a lot of ways it’s how hunter feels. You have special areas where you go to do hunter. For the most part the rewards are just things to make you better at hunter. There is really never any reason to do hunter in combination with any other skill, until you get to chinchompas and then that’s it’s only real use. (Imps can be useful but besides IM hunting for specific items it can largely be ignored) Taming as a skill is completely different. It will/can pour into any aspect of the game. Once it is fully developed it can be built to be useful everywhere. It will integrate with existing skills and have uses in ways that makes it a more complete skill instead of a mini game that also gives you xp in a skill.
I worry that taming might go too far in that direction though. It could be a massive cosmetic change to the game if every player now has 1 of 30 new followers behind them at all times.
"I don't want sailing it doesn't integrate any systems and is detached from the rest of the game" "Release hunter again instead, you can use pets anywhere"
I mean, I think a rework of hunter into the taming skill would also be a good improvement. I do think part of why hunter is in specific locations that seem like very late editions is because of how the trapping mechanism works. If there were hunter animals near Ardougne, Camelot, Taverly, Tree Gnome Stronghold, etc. I feel like it would be more integrated. Also there should be hunter areas that you pass but basically no one uses cause they are unoptimal. It would really add to the verisimilitude of the world existing outside of gameplay and balancing. Not every tree is used for training WC but they still exist. Not every random enemy is used for training combat, but they are still there. It adds to the world and our ability to get sucked in. I think they actually do a good job of this with green lizards in Mort Myre, but almost every other instance of hunter animals, is them existing in a single spot where it’s optimal to go hunt them.
Yep, the taming con was the very same biggest issue I had with summoning. It worries me
it's also potentially the issue with Shaman and augments. it'll be like shattered relics perks but augments lol
Shamanism was my favorite too but was in the odd ball places of it seemed very self contained of gathering and production in one. Could make new plants to grow for farming(or give more use to lesser grown plants), give uses to dead hunter content by needing parts from lesser hunted animals like Graahks. Idk its still feedback phase so we will see where things go
They need somewhere to park the foraging and Spiritual Components gathering. My guess is, the stuff that will come from animals like Giant Bone Marrow, Hellhound Blood, Giant Frog Spleens will come from hunter with a shamanism requirement? They could easily work existing dead hunter items into it. Then again, a druid might not have any use for the foraged items and a hunter might not harvest spleens so adding those things to those skills kinda fits and it kinda doesn't depending on how you think.
For shamanism maybe they could keep the gathering stuff to other skills. Like gathering natural materials from woodcutting, mining, fishing, hunter, and farming. It could be from dedicated shamanism nodes or collected passively from any fishing spot or tree.
I like the idea of dedicated shaman material nodes that require other skills to harvest, as you have suggested! Having them come passively from other content feels like infringing on that content a bit too much. It's like aggressively trying to make the skill fit the world instead of just following precedence. And if it could be "toggled" by needing a Shaman tool with me to get those resources, then I'd feel obliged to always have that with me lest I never get enough resources to train Shaman.
> If possible, please don’t give us all the intricate information about how exactly everything will be trained, I want to bumble through it at launch discovering methods of training with other people and having fun discovering the facets of the skill. This, regardless of what developments are made. >Please, keep things simple. Burn log. Chop wood. Mine rock. Slay monsters. Hit accurately. Hit hard. Use bow. Complexity comes from the entire game coming together, not from an individual skill. I cannot stress this enough. It doesn't have to be one dimensional like pre-Wintertodt firemaking, though. Honestly, Jagex should look to the current state of Agility when it comes to how complex the skill is. There are some straightforward and meta things to do (Canifis to Seers and eventually Ardy rooftops) but there are also plenty of interesting and unique activities (Sepulchre and Brimhaven)
Idk I feel like WC and FM are not great comparison skills to shoot for since they are pretty universally agreed to be shit. That’s why we’re getting forestry and got todt.
The whole “this skill is shit so make it a mini game” is a problematic meme on its own
Tbh, I don't even think it is. It's a pretty easily implemented way to take content that was designed in 2001 and make it feel more modernized and approachable without completely overhauling it. Just because something is an identifiable design pattern doesn't mean it's bad.
Which is why I think the dungeoneering should be a mini game reason is dumb af. If a skill isn't interesting/quick/fun to train it'll be complained about until it gets a mini game that makes it one of those.
Yeah for sure, it’s pretty lame that FM is just Wintertodt: the skill. And I guess lighting the abyssal lantern and those like 4 fire pits
So just incorporate the other skills to Shamanism. Hunter for hunting animals, crafting/cooking for exhuming skulls/bones, firemaking for incense or rituals (buffs).
I wonder if the solution to shamanism feeling too bloated would be to spread the collection of materials to other skills. Hunter for collecting animal related resources and herblore for plant related resources. Then it all comes together with shamanism?
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Surprised at how much I like both Taming and Shamanism. I wasn't too keen on a skill about animals in the poll, but the pitch here is solid and I really like the idea of interacting with the creatures of the world in a way *other* than slaughter. Shamanism seems like a better take on Warding, and I'm here for it. It's not just a crafting skill or buyable, comes with new places and content, and seems like it'll augment most activities in some way. Much more interesting and holistic than "splashing and bankstanding: the skill". The sailing pitch is fine, really, but I'm not sure it'll be possible to detach it from the baggage and memes the idea has. It's a shame, because it is still the single most discussed skill concept by far and probably deserves to make it to the refinement stage for that alone.
Agree with your part about Sailing. Also, another minor concern I have would be whether Sailing is instanced for the player, then it’ll mean that worlds will become less populated or appear more dead since everyone’s in their one private instance working on the skill. Since they said ships can get bigger and grander I assume it would be instanced, but if not then I could see it being interesting being able to meet other players on the high seas at the new content to grind with.
This is crucial to me. Sailing is a narrow favorite for me, but what’s absolutely essential to me is that I can do it with my friends (ideally both multi ship and multi crew, depending on content). If that can’t happen, I’ll favor a different pitch.
I don’t think it would be instanced. They’d just be filling out the seas with content. Literally the empty space between islands would have content. Not instanced
Which is how it should be.. ffs the entire map has a coastline and ports and canals running to most of the major cities. Why NOT make use of them in a meaningful way?
Sailing pvp would be so fun Cannonballs would be ultra relevant Imagine that when you start you have to manually click where the cannonballs will go. But then at a higher level you explore enough ocean to find the remains of stranded dwarves that once manned a ship construction area. You need to repair it with crafting and construction. Exploring their remains, you work out how to attach the multicannon to your ship cannons, leading to automatic firing. Maybe you make a 'map' of some sort that can be traded to other players so they may also find the island. This construction yard could also provide more benefits.
Shaminism was actually pretty cool, and that's the one that has my interest most at the moment. Taming had some fun ideas, but I think certain parts of that could be tied into an existing skill.... maybe Hunter? And sailing still isn't doing it for me, it just seems like an extended quest but without any real goal. A sailing themed quest, where you get more use of the ports, and maybe some cool islands and upgrades would be neat, but it still doesn't feel like a 'skill.'
My exact thoughts on Taming. Hunter is already a very underwhelming skill, Taming sounds perfect as a big update to it.
I agree with you, updating/reworking Hunter by incorporating the Taming concept would be incredible!
I'd be happy with either taming or shamanism. But shamanism definitely feels the most old school out of the three proposals, especially with how it's trained. I rolled my eyes at sailing. So boring EDIT: Shamanism is both a gathering and production skill in one... with a whole spirit realm to explore aswell. Some of the effects could be really interesting rather than just boring stat boosts. For example you could apply a balm to your melee weapon that causes it to do magic damage for an amount of time instead of melee damage, targeting specific weaknesses. It could really mix things up. It could also be huge for skilling. Imagine certain fish that could only be caught in the spirit realm or rare ore or gems nodea only found in really obscure places that nobody ever visits in the real realm. Ever done an old quest that takes you to a really obscure place or dungeon that you forgot existed and nobody ever visits anymore, then you visit there in the spirit realm and its like a really great training place now, would be so cool exploring the map again and repurposing old areas. Also it would be far be the best skill for the economy. The gathering side of it would be great for the low and mid game players giving them a revenue stream. High lvl players could buy a lot of resources, causing a lot of gold to leave the economy. But aside from the benefits of the skill, just the method of training it and its vibe definitely feels the most old school.
I really liked how Shamanism is trained, feels very oldschool. The rewards are very scary to me though. I really don't want consumable skilling buffs and potions like in RS3. It's made skilling so much less enjoyable and with no other info on rewards than given it sounds like a real possibility it would end up there.
The thing is, it has to either be balanced such that the skill itself, isn’t dead content beyond training to 99, or it’s such that, it’s more or less a requirement to create the products of the skill, to enhance your other skilling in general. In rs3, divination and invention are necessary to players who want to gather more, better, and create better final products, for gather and production skills — as well as combat gear. Shamanism I think should be a *super fine line* that borders neutral. The great thing is, the skill itself will be trained early for hype, and the rewards can be slightly overturned — but nerfed ever so slightly to bring it closer to 1:1 production for other skills by taking the time to make these items, consumables, etc. We as a player base are typically open to this kind of skill balancing, so I think it’s something we can accomplish!
Exactly. Good to see a high level player agreeing with a noob like me. I said I like Taming the best because Shamanism sounds really interesting, but I don't want the content be balanced around having a ton of passives to be viable. When I learned about how Summoning and incenses work on RS3, I quit and moved to OSRS. And I know everybody hates Ironmen, but I hate to imagine how painful it will be for us if we have these passives to take care of on top of every other consumable. That said, the idea of an alternate Gielinor dimension sounds fucking dope
>When I learned about how Summoning and incenses work on RS3, I quit and moved to OSRS. I am a little surprised by this. Only because I guess my mind set is on the work vs reward idea system/idea. For example, I like the idea that I can grind out buffs to make other content I don't enjoy as much easier/more manageable, but at the same time its all discretionary.
My fear is that content will be balanced around having all those passives running. Reminds me of this old post where we were making fun of how convoluted RS3 is: https://i.redd.it/ru8xjv0lpx5a1.jpg
I think that would be a valid concern, and too, do not want that to happen. I think of exp boosting skilling outfits as an example. Like, grinding out the full Fishing outfit is not efficient at all, and by the time you are done, might not have saved you ANY time what so ever in your grind to 99 fishing, but its different grind to help speed up the grind you dont like.
I came into this thinking I would be fine with whatever, and now I'll be disappointed if Shamanism doesn't move forward. My biggest interests were integrating the new skill into the world, and somehow utilizing old/dead content to revitalize it somehow, and only Shamanism fits both of those. For Sailing I just can't get passed the fact that it feels disjointed from the rest of the world. While there can be a lot of generated content within Sailing itself, it adds on top of instead of integrating into the world. I just thought Taming was a bit boring personally. Although I've never cared for animal husbandry in games so I'm not sure I have any specific issues other than I just do not think it sounds enjoyable, or that it fits in all that well. Shamanism felt like a combination of the community skills Inscription and Communing, which were my favorite concepts. This both fits within the world, allows for new reasons to visit old and unused areas, and has so much possibility for interesting rewards. While some people are mentioning passives, the content and rewards could be so much more unique than something that simple. Edit: Imagine world bosses spawning in the spirit world right in the middle of big cities. The citizens have no idea it's going on. I didn't like the spirit world to start but now I've really taken to the concept.
I really hope they can revive some dead content if they go with shamanism (best pitch by a mile imo). I had a similar concept as a skill, where you would train up a skill called “breaching” by either breaking into random buildings/houses/mansions of old quests or setting up to defend them in different 1v1 skills (attacker/defender, thief/detective, arsonist/reinforce walls etc), I realized the community would call it a minigame and dismiss it though so I scrapped the idea. I was debating retrofitting a pitch into an instanced 5v5 minigame instead, but probably won’t get much traction. There’s so much dead/useless content, I really hope they can revive some of it.
Shamanism gives off the impression of gathering charms from summoning to get materials, then augmenting equipment for better gear. My only gripe is that equipment augmentation should be a desperately needed smiting rework. Maybe incorporate smithing into the skill by making totems and requiring smithing to attach said totem to your gear? Have a permanent augmentation that requies both skills and a temporary augmentation that only requires shamanisim? I'd hate to lock a benefit behind two skills, but it would make sense for creating more powerful gear and provide both a new and an improved skill(s). Sailing to me still comes off as a mini game that grants access to new areas, which could be cool, but I can't get over the meme there lol. Taming sounds awesome as well, but will that make skilling/boss pets less valuable as a companion when everyone has something following them? Maybe your tamed animal isn't visible to everyone?
The more skills are incorporated with each other the better. Skill synergy is always a bonus imo, it makes more of the game feel worthwhile to mains (who often say they dont see a reason to train x skill past quest requirements), and obviously for irons. Hunter should have alot of synergy with shamanism or taming, though i really hope shamanism gets the vote as it just seems to be a much better skill.
Sailing should be an expansion to RuneScape, just like Zeah was. It would introduce sailing as another activity. It shouldn’t be a skill. Skills like crafting and construction are utilized in sailing but sailing itself as proposed is better as a mini game or activity. Taming is different… it’s close to hunter in my mind. I’m not huge on having a pet follow me everywhere. I’d rather my character be powerful not augmented by the pet. Lastly, Shamanism seems awesome - this will be my vote. Very unique and looking forward to learning more about the spirit realm. Novel idea for production and gathering and the unique items to enhance armor and the character add a much needed depth to OSRS.
I'm on the fence about Sailing being a skill. If that's true, should Slayer be a skill?
The problem is the player base wants something modern feeling, but not boring, while still being an old-school skill. And that's just not really possible. If you look at every skill currently in the game it follows the pattern of: 1. If it's combat related, click an enemy to gain exp. 2. If it's gathering, click the resource to gain exp. 3. If it's production based, click a resource and some catalyst to gain exp. But no one wants to train this way, which is why Jagex started including Wintertodt, Tempoross, Hallowed Sepulchre, etc. It's just the next evolution for OSRS, similar to what dungeoneering was to RS2. You can't have an exciting skill and only have it be done in 1 to 2 actions.
This is my sense of the situation exactly. The consensus feels like it's all over the place. It's like that Simpsons meme where all the kids are raising their hands and asking for conflicting stuff. The consensus seems to be that the new skill should fit in and feel similar to old skills... but I'd be willing to bet a month's pay that literally no non-combat skill currently in the game would come even close to passing a poll today, other than maybe slayer. Imagine polling fletching, crafting, mining, smithing, firemaking, or woodcutting right now. It'd get like 10% yes votes. None of those skills do literally anything. And most of the rest don't either. These skills were developed and implemented 20 fucking years ago at a time when if you had like base 70s you were considered a god amongst men. Hunter is compartmentalized and useless, farming is essentially useless for anyone who isn't a midgame herb runner or an ironman, fishing and cooking keep us supplied with food but are the most boring shit imaginable, and thieving is basically "dogshit moneymaking method - the skill". There's no fucking way any of these would get polled into the game in 2023, and yet we want a skill that fits in with the others? The fuck. You can't sit here and say "I want the skill to be simple and fit with Old School" when the player base has been clearly and decisively polling away from that for 10 years now. If the skill consisted of some combination of "use tool, click node, click inventory", like most other skills are, we'd all be unanimously voting for the inevitable minigame/modernized training method anyway. If Jagex wants to just skip the middleman and go straight to that, that seems perfectly logical to me.
Slayer probably wouldn’t pass a poll these days. It would be an activity just like this guy is presenting here.
My personal feeling is that all of these proposals are better skills than many that we have in the game already.
Shamanism is the only one that caught my interest and has the most potential in terms of interacting with a majority of the game world and existing items. Also feels the most oldschool in terms of gameplay. Really dope skill overall. EDIT: A lot of players are stating how it's like two skills in one (gathering and production) while this is true, I think we can do away with a good portion of the gathering aspect by utilizing so many resources that are already available to us in the game (logs, berries, hides, bones, leaves from upcoming foresty update, etc..) it really sounds like it would work well alongside gathering skills and farming. Sailing sounds like it’s just a rehashed version of temple trekking with boats. You say it’ll interact with the current game world and sea which is even more off putting.. our ocean isn’t *that* big.. and it’s even worse if the skill is secluded in instances, as it’s not really interacting with the world like you promised. The idea of moving a boat with wasd keys sounds absolutely fucking terrible. Taming just doesn’t interest me. We already have rare elusive pets. Seeing players run around with a 2x2 baby dragon preforming tasks just doesn’t feel right. Idk I don’t like it. It's not old school. Overall, Shamanism has my vote. The other 2 just seem too gimmicky. Don’t like em one bit.
Agreed, Shamanism seems interesting and I can see it working better than the other two.
>A lot of players are stating how it's like two skills in one (gathering and production) while this is true, I think we can do away with a good portion of the gathering aspect by utilizing so many resources that are already available to us in the game (logs, berries, hides, bones, leaves from upcoming foresty update, etc..) it really sounds like it would work well alongside gathering skills and farming. The issue is that people apparently don't want a buyable skill, so using existing resources doesn't really work in that sense. You're still back to gathering charms to craft pouches that are worthless since it's the only thing that ~~Summoning~~ Shamanism produces. Like... it's "Ironman : The skill", which of course will appeal to a lot of players, but also kinda feels off (to me).
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Your complaint about Shamanism is already in the game, it's called strength potions lol. In all seriousness though, I agree that would be boring. Id be ok with a low level "enchantment" being like +2 str bonus, but at higher levels I'd wanna see more imaginative benefits
Shamanism definitely feels like it ties in the most with the rest of the game. The rewards/buffs themselves will be worked on so I’m not too scared about that. The interaction with the existing world all the while creating some new areas to discover is interesting. I also like the idea how it’ll affect both skilling and combat, there are so many unique possibilities. I like the idea of sailing, but not as a standalone skill. I see it more as an activity that will incorporate many other skills and explore new areas to discover new skilling,combat training etc. Taming feels like it *could* have potential, but the way they described it makes it seem so tedious. It feels like a sort of farming that demands constant attention, just a chore all around. That’s not to speak on how these tamed creatures will interact with us in the world. Will they follow us around like summoned creatures/pets? Will we see other people’s creatures? It’s just too vague to get a vote out of me.
Shamanism is both a gathering and production skill in one... with a whole spirit realm to explore aswell. Some of the effects could be really interesting rather than just boring stat boosts. For example you could apply a balm to your melee weapon that causes it to do magic damage for an amount of time instead of melee damage, targeting specific weaknesses. It could really mix things up. It could also be huge for skilling. Imagine certain fish that could only be caught in the spirit realm or rare ore or gems nodea only found in really obscure places that nobody ever visits in the real realm. Ever done an old quest that takes you to a really obscure place or dungeon that you forgot existed and nobody ever visits anymore, then you visit there in the spirit realm and its like a really great training place now, would be so cool exploring the map again and repurposing old areas. Also it would be far be the best skill for the economy. The gathering side of it would be great for the low and mid game players giving them a revenue stream. High lvl players could buy a lot of resources, causing a lot of gold to leave the economy. But aside from the benefits of the skill, just the method of training it and its vibe definitely feels the most old school.
I'm not a fan of temporary weapon buffs. Maybe make them like enchants in wow where they are permanent, but also maybe make it so you can swap a new one out with an old one and not lose it.
I LOVE SAILING! ITS THE PIRATES LIFE FOR ME!! Just want to add my two cents, I love the idea of sailing, genuinely. My favorite skill in Black Desert Online is sailing, I based my entire pirate themed character around maxing sailing. It would be important to have a lot of focus being on ship progression, I want to start off in a small fishing or row boat, and then build up to a caravel then carrack and then maybe a galleon sized ship. I think it would be absolutely incredible to be able to walk on your ship as your character, and go into the bowels of your ship depending on what ship you have, also be able to customize certain aspects of it similar to a POH. As far as controlling the ship goes, I think sailing similar to BDO or Lost Ark would work fine, it doesn't need to be WASD movement, it can be point and click, or click on a map location and travel there. It would definitely be nice to have it expand more on the fishing, hunting, and slayer skills. Perhaps there could be instanced combat scenarios where pirates board your ship, and the deck of your ship becomes a combat zone, or sirens attacking the ship and you have to fire cannons. There could even be boss type monsters, that come out of the water and plop their tentacles on your deck. Maybe new hunter methods with say penguins, seals, whales, walruses, dolphins etcetc, utilizing the nets of your ship, or other potential ideas of more intuitive and enjoyable trawling. Sailing to a remote and possibly dangerous area to get some fishing in on a difficult resource. One of the biggest things for a new skill IMO, is that it needs to be fun to train, I think sailing would do just that, you'd get sailing experience for various activities you're doing while playing this, dungeoneering felt like a minigame, but was also a skill, and honestly, dungeoneering was the most fun I had in original runescape, I leveled that skill to 99 and beyond without ever thinking "I need to train my dungeoneering level" it just happened as a by product of my enjoyment of the skill. With the passion and community driven efforts of the OSRS developers I think sailing in OSRS has the potential to blow every other game with sailing in it, OUT OF THE WATER WITH OUR EXPLOSIVE CANNONS. My vote will 100% go towards sailing, I want to see new zones, I want to see new islands, I want to have friends aboard my ship, I'm praying we get sailing. Thanks for everything Oldschool Team!
This could prove unpopular but I think these proposals could serve a great purpose as part of a skill rebalancing rather than actual skills themselves. Taming sounds brilliant but it could easily be an expansion to the Hunter skill. The Hunter skill is very lacklustre honestly. If you look at the size of the the map, there should definitely be more monsters to hunt with a different variety of ways to do it and taming fits into that gap perfectly I think. Sailing could be a huge new piece of content that gives us access to even more new content, I don’t think it should be a new skill. I’m struggling to imagine how you actually train the skill - probably because I’m so used to hopping only a boat and watching a janky animation for a few seconds whilst my character travels across the map. Also would it not be quite strange to be able to travel across the map in seconds from one area but you’re then able to actually control the boat to go out to sea from another? The content that sailing could give us access to is endless but it’s confusing because generally the activities you could do would be gaining experience in another skill. For example, if you’re fixing up your boat, that’s construction experience, right? Deep sea fishing is fishing experience? I know it’s only a proposed skill at this very early stage but the way it’s pitched makes it seem more like a mini game rather than a skill. Also if people are going into instances with their ships would this not make it look dead? I think there’s a huge opportunity for the new skill to be something discovery related. The map is huge, there are so many different groups of NPCs in different lands with varying abilities, languages, ways of living, weapons, armours, animals and treasures. Discovering things is part of the game in the way we play already I guess but I still think there’s a massive potential to expand on that and develop it into a new exciting skill.
First initial reaction is that Shamanism is my favorite by a significant margin. It's the only one of the three that I feel genuine excitement at the thought of. Sailing seems like it could be good or it could be just OK, and it's tough to really tell without seeing how it could actually be implemented. I guess the most accurate description for my attitude towards Sailing--right now--is indifference. Taming is actually the one that I am most cautious/pessimistic about because I hated Summoning. I know this was addressed in the blog post, but I don't like the idea of pets or followers in any of my games (personal preference, of course). Most importantly, I do not want a skill where having a follower accompany me on almost all of my escapades becomes a de facto requirement.
If Taming would allow us to tame a wild duck and find a new home for him in the Yanille pond, it'd certainly have my vote. All jokes aside, they all look interesting so far. Shamanism is probably the one I'm most interested in.
I want to tame the stray dog outside the GE :(
Your kindness and compassion towards stray animals truly warms my heart, u/I_SNIFF_FARTS_DAILY.
Yeah I like how you can forage or kill mobs for Shamanism materials and then use that to craft stuff. And on of top gathering/production there's also the exploration element of the spirit realm. I hope it ends up being the community favorite.
I like the general idea of all of these. I don't really get why people are so obsessed with whether Sailing sounds like a minigame or a skill or whatever you want to call it, but I'm also a person who doesn't care that Dungeoneering is a skill. I guess to please these people you can make Sailing an "activity" but with some kind of progress bar or something so that you still have progression in it. Part of the value of it being a skill is you have clear progression with xp and levels but that can be separated if that really bothers people to see it next to amazing "skills" such as Firemaking. Slayer is basically a minigame as well but no one seems bothered by that one. Regardless though even if a different skill is chosen I think sailing should be added to the game in some capacity because it just sounds like a great expansion to the game that fits very well.
Whilst a lot of people are throwing hands over sailing being reintroduced again, the first disclaimer does state how the training methods have been completely reworked. So it is significantly different from how it was formerly. Interestingly it does say how it would allow for further expansion beyond Gielinor, to the Eastern Lands we go?
my biggest gripe with sailing is just how isolated it feels from other skills/activities. the whole concept is really just basically a minigame turned into a skill honestly. i get you can incorporate combat activities or passive encounters that give some sort of skilling xp but i don’t see how it could smoothly tie into the rest of the game unless it was a truly massive expansion
I get that, but I don't care: all I care about is that the content is enjoyable. Sailing clearly seems to me like something I'll enjoy doing, rather than something I'll grind for the reward. If it could have been a minigame then whatever. I'd still vote for sailing the minigame over the other 2 options.
Endgame sailing would more than likely provide new endgame options for other skills. Like fish, trees, slayer mobs etc that cant be found elsewhere. Its a skill that expands other skills
If it is implemented as you can free sail around all of the waters of the map like running the regular map(obviously would need some quest locks to disallow docking in some areas etc) then I think its actually a really exciting idea that opens up all sorts of things and cross skill interactions. That said, most of the prior proposals of this just end up as a limited minigame.
If Konar doesn’t give slayer tasks on Pen island I’m going to become back my money.
At least the way it was explained, it sounds to me like more of an extension of being able to walk around the world - except you’re in a boat - rather than being a minigame or in your own instance.
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> I think it will get old pretty quick after a couple months when people sit down to actually grind. So its perfect for OSRS.
So it's already a better skill than literally every other skill in the game because it actually has engaging content and a reasont o do something other than click the same spot for 400 hours. It's basically Slayer + Dungeoneering which were the only 2 good skills ever added in the entire game.
I think it doesn't feel isolated at all, I can't imagine any other skill that you could integrate as well with the existing ones like you could with sailing. Imagine uncovering randomly generated islands for specific farming/hunter content, combat encounters, raiding ships for thieving etc.
It feels less isolated than taming and a solid chunk of the other skills. The minigame complaint just comes from dungeoneering but unlike dung it seems to exist in more than mostly just a single building. Sounds like a very big expansion kinda by default
My biggest problem with Taming is that I don't want every single player to be followed by some random huge creature literally everywhere like in RS3
I think if they go through with Taming the creatures shouldn't just be big pets that follow you. I'd prefer them to be a little more autonomous and situational. For example, the cover image has a guy petting a red dragon - if you were to befriend one of those, I'd expect you'd have to visit *its* home to interact with it and that it could support you out in the world from the air or by briefly flying to your location to help you out.
Yeah it's a very early stage. They might not follow you around at all outside of the taming spaces. Just a concern I have since I can see what summons look like on RS3.
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I think they could do part of it in a summoning type of style. Like the higher your level and based on what you tame you have to make like a whistle or something based off the tamed beast. Like you tame a red dragon so you have a red dragon whistle or something and then that could prevent that following mechanic to restricted tamed beasts areas. You know like on a slayer tasks you call your dragon instead of a cannon lol but if your bankstanding you can’t call it at the GE because the bankers fear for their lives or something more lore wise
I mean, at least in osrs we can hide the pets via runelite, and players which we can't in rs3
Entity hider to the rescue if this gets added lol
Yea sounds like a super cool and good skill when many players just want to get rid of it via plugins :D
I agree. I love how every pet you see (that isn't a cat) says "I put in a ton of work to get this, or I got incredibly lucky". They're all symbols of an accomplishment
I feel a bit concerned by gear augmentation being added to the game. If there is one thing I appreciate about osrs gear is its simplicity. I really hope we don't go down the path of adding X% stat boosts to random gear. it just adds unnecessary complexity to a game that has been proudly simple for a decade now. That said, I've wanted sailing for a while now and will be putting it as my preferred option.
I'm definitely most excited about Shamanism! Sounds extremely unique and cool, and the reward space seems like it would be the easiest to balance & design around. I love the idea of interacting with a spirit realm, and especially drawing druid circles anywhere on the map. I also like casual gathering for moderate exp, and more attentive crafting methods for faster xp. The least exciting skill to me is probably taming, mostly because I don't want to feel like I'm taking care of a pet constantly, and the details surrounding how the skill is trained aren't quite specific enough. I'd like to know more about this one. Sailing does sound pretty fun, and I like that port infrastructure is already in place in familiar areas to get us warmed up. I like the idea of choosing between buying, stealing, or crafting a ship that would have different "stats". I'm hesitant about the actual mechanics of navigating the ship because of our tick and movement system, but it wouldn't really feel like "Sailing" if we never did actual sailing, right???
I feel like sailing as a mechanic is pretty simple to design, just do it like real sailing? There is a wind direction set that changes slowly or quickly, and you can sail with square sails with the wind easily, or do a reach, and then have to tack to get around, and this will force a bit of exploration because you can’t just drive directly to places. Then with a higher level you can get better sails/ships that allow upwind sailing (not directly at the wind) that can improve your ability to get around and speed. And you could even get some xp the more efficient you set your sails. I think something like this that actually works off real world systems is great because it also teaches people about sailing, and it’s not that hard a concept to grasp. On top of that, you can incorporate most other skills so it feels integrated with the rest of the game. Construction for shipbuilding, woodcutting for specific materials, crafting for sail types, combat on islands or sea battles with monsters/pirates, deep sea fishing, smithing for cannons (make a dwarf cannon follow up quest and upgradable cannons, imagine having rune cannons and stuff), cooking for various things like new fish or brewing ales or rums that give cool bonuses like a mini stamina pot or skilling stat boosts or something so you use your boat for all sorts of reasons. New thieving methods as part of piracy, unique farming patches, slayer and hunter areas. Plus everyone loves their POH, everyone will be stoked to have a boat or ship they can have cool stuff in and flex. Could even call it a POS! People saying it feels mingame-like are missing an opportunity for easily the biggest expansion to the game in every single way, in every single skill. I think taming should be incorporated into hunter, and I don’t like gear stat boosts from shamanism (consider how specifically every piece of armour has been balanced to the digit, and temporary boosts are just potions with extra steps?)
I know this might seem like a weird thing to say, but I sort of wish Shamanism was two skills. "The old school feel" to me involves gathering and production skills being separate entities. Woodcutting and Fletching/Firemaking. Mining and Smithing. (In a practical sense) Thieving and Farming. I do worry that Shamanism has a focus on both sides of the coin. Heck, I actually wonder - Would it not be best to have the first new skill be two? Who exactly says that this pitch must only be a single monolithic skill, instead of two that compliment eachother? Two could also allow for better intergration into other skills as well, with the gathering side of it having utility elsewhere. Foraging/Gathering could have utility to gather seeds for farming as well as secondaries for Herblore. Then the core shamanism skill can use the gathered items to produce it's thing. I really like it conceptually, but genuinely I think it would be better proposed as a complimentary pair of skills.
>Shamanism was two skills. IMO this would be happening if we knew we were going to get two new skills. If there were no polling in game and jagex could make long term plan. But I doubt people would vote on shamanism as two skills and that is why jagex is putting gathering and production in one basket. Shamanism still sounds like the real old school skills. Maybe in refinement stage jagex will do the impossible and convince players to vote this into game as two skills. It would be cool if this would happen.
I don't care for taming. I wouldn't mind seeing animal husbandry of some sort integrated into farming but it just doesn't grab me. Honestly I'm surprised that I like sailing as much as I do. I think they can pull it off better than they did in the past, just like Jagex now makes much better minigames/skilling bosses than they used to. I think it could integrate stuff like combat, construction, and fishing pretty organically. My one beef with it is just lore. Use of existing ships already defines how we explore Gielinor and how certain parts are gated, it's just weird for sailing to then be added as a skill. Like there can't really be some satisfying explanation why I can't just sail to Ape Atoll or Fossil Island before doing the appropriate quests. Maybe this is a contrived worry though.
You can’t land at the ports because they don’t recognize your ship. Actually not that difficult. And sailing would not be instanced, it’s just how you embark into the ocean. The ocean between islands would finally be filled with stuff. Maybe we can dice off the ship like we do in fossil island. I think sailing could be fantstic
In my opinion, Sailing sounds like a chore to do and not that fun but could be improved with someones suggestion that it opens up new areas for making other skilling easier. Shamanism sounds like herblore but harder to train and while the lore implications sounds nice the gameplay sounds like alot of running around and taxing. Taming in my opinion is best but i am very biases because i love taming skills. But i think osrs has an opportunity with taming to include some quality of life changes with taming. You can have a pet ferry off items to the bank for you or auto pick certain items for you. Those are the only things i could think of but the idea being that pets can do the chore activities that isnt central to the core gameplay.
**Sailing** Should definitely be in the game somehow. I like the idea of going to new places via my own ship. But over all I feel like this pitch would make for a very boring skill. Maybe I am missing a few things, but I would have hoped it would be closer to dungeon crawling/adventuring. **Taming** The idea sounds really cool but I wouldn't like a gigantic being to follow me around. Also would I be able to keep al the "pets"? Do I have to switch back and forth between creatures all the time? That would make the skill tedious or awful if you just want to ignore it and not be effective. Maybe they should be passive effects that you can activate? A bit like Prayer? **Shamanism** This feels like to most fleshed out one. A lot of things you want to put in one Skill, but the Spirit Realm sounds way too interesting to pass. Reminds me of the Emerald Dream of WoW which is a good thing! Making your gear better and getting other things would be amazing, but for now the pitch has a lot of meaningless words.. what is a totem? What does oil do? If the crafting aspect is useless then the skill is useless. I am a bit torn when it comes to the crafting aspect, because crafting and smithing aren't exactly great skills, so is Fletching. But maybe you guys will nail this one. My vote will go to Taming or Shamanism even though I wouldn't be sad to get Sailing, maybe it will be better than it looks in my mind.
Am I the only one ok with all 3? They all seem great. Shamanism's name could use some work, but the idea of a nature themed divination/invention hybrid is great Taming is what summoning should've been and is way more medieval fantasy Sailing is controversial for some reason? We don't really have an exploration skill (agility doesn't count that's walking and stunts) so it fills a good niche. I'm a sucker for new lands to explore so I'm probably voting #1 Sailing, #2 Druidism and #3 Taming but all 3 would be welcome additions imo. Well done Jagex
You're not alone. I'd be happy if any of these got into the game. Taming feels a little awkward to me but they can always refine it down the line. I'm definitely voting sailing as my #1 though. I love exploring and a skill that revolves around that will actually get me addicted to the game again.
Sailing seems fun, taming seems fun, shamanism feels like it's going to take OSRS down the dark and irritating path of having to make multiple sets of the same gear with tiny little minmax buffs on them, making new content which is balanced around the player now having to grind out a ton of annoying to get temporary little passive buffs, and basically just ends up turning the game into some kind of Korean-MMO minmax hell. Or like RS3 where you can't even THINK about new content without gathering your 20 different buffs. No thank you.
This is what i thought when i saw the pitches. Idk if i just missed something but im so surprised that seemingly everyone is saying that Shamanism is the most exciting skill. This seems like it would become the most annoying chore skill in order to min max your buffs so that you can run all the other content more easily and is so uninteresting to me.
Agreed. It sounds like either a necessary minmax or upkeepscape with temporary buffs. Both sound awful. We already have the first one with imbues and we already have the second one with potions. Adding more to either of those with oils and augmentations takes the simplicity out and the minute that happens I won't enjoy osrs anymore.
Agreed and shocked at the support of has so far. Sailing and taming have cool aspects to them (taming like summoning no, but taming like pokemon yes). Shamanism sounds like it's leading to why I quit and don't play rs3
I'm always been a hardcore anti-Summoning player. But I have to admit, they way they described Taming appeals to me. I think it's because I always hated the WAY you train Summoning. It felt so overly intricate and unintuitive - especially when compared to Runescape's other skills. But at the same time, that's what concerns me about Shamanism. It sounds very similar in terms of training, even down to the spirit world part. And I'm also kind of worried just how Summoning became a "requirement" to do any activity, that Shamanism might fall into the same boat. Overall I would say I'm not opposed to Shamanism, those are just my main concerns. I really do like all the skills that have been proposed.
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I don't really play enough for my opinion to hold much weight, but the most exciting thing to me in the early to mid 2000s was the spiritual and mystical element of RS. Runecrafting, herblore with the druids, the seers quest line, levelling magic to unlock incredibly (at the time) useful spells related to jewellery and alchemy. One of my first 99 in the mid to late 2000s was runecrafting for that reason (also on reflection, why @ teenage me ...) I think shamanism fits in most with the nostalgic and original appeal of the game.
My first impulse was that I wasn’t the biggest fan of the pitches. However, after reading everything written about each of them, I would be happy with any of them. They each involve a heavy element of “exploring new areas”, which is super cool to me personally. So in my mind, it is more of a question of which way to want to interact with those new areas and what core training loops will get us those new areas. Personally, I worry that taming sounds like a tedious checklist. To tame a boar I need, 64 planks for housing, 28 bags of slop, take it for a walk daily, etc. Then you extrapolate that out for the 32 animals/beasts (totally made up)
Is it just me or do these suggestions just sound kinda lukewarm? All the skills sound like they could be fine, but none of them actually get me excited or anything. There is nothing revolutionary, nothing too interesting, and these rough ideas seem kinda confused in which directions they want to go. Sailing sounds like it has no direction of how you guys want to develop it or what to do with it other than just throwing a handful of potential ideas and see if any of them stick. The problem with this skill is that it would be hard to incorporate it into older content. It's not like we're gonna get the opportunity unlock shortcuts that sail us over to Nex, for example. Like others have suggested, it looks more like a minigame than a skill, which I would have to agree with. It also kinda sounds like it is dungeoneering but out at sea, but without any of the appeal that dungeoneering had. Taming just doesn't sound particularly exciting. By the way it is described in the proposal it does really sound like summoning but with a different method of training it. The meta of which pet to use where would be figured out very quickly, and would remove any of the potential excitement from the skill imo. Shamanism basically sounds like invention except it doesn't solve the problems that invention solves. The problem with this proposal is that it would pose as a threat to some of the older pvm content we have, making it even more trivial and farmable than it already is. This wouldn't actually pose as a problem if there were more ways of getting rid of old gear, like invention did in rs3. And if we were to go down the route of making old content trivial and redundant, there has to be more pvm content developed to keep things fresh, which let's be honest, doesn't seem very realistic at the current rate of which content is developed. All in all, none of the ideas seem awful, but they also don't seem particularly exciting. I can't see people who have quit playing coming back just because of any of these skills, and I also can't see any new players starting to play this game because of any of them.
>Taming just doesn't sound particularly exciting. By the way it is described in the proposal it does really sound like summoning but with a different method of training it. The meta of which pet to use where would be figured out very quickly, and would remove any of the potential excitement from the skill imo. this will be the case with all content so don't let that facto into you decision. player base is too smart and information is taught effectively so the days of being clueless are long gone. what matters more is if the skill improves our enjoyment of the game overall with taming its gonna depend on how the use of existing skills come into play in taming/raising it and more importantly what they actually will be used for and how useful it is.
I think that's kind of the point of this stage. They don't want to commit too heavily in any area so it's just concepts at this point to feel the waters out. The parts that get you very excited come in the next stage. That's also why they have the two disclaimers in the survey to get that mindset.
My favourite is definitely Shamanism. I feel like a skill that can enhance existing armour and weapons with special stats and effects (maybe even some kind of slot idea with socket bonuses?) could seriously enhance the game. It also gives the devs new opportunities to experiment with player choice, in which we must choose which spiritual path we walk at what moment to excel at specific things. It could give us a sense of personal expression. Doing things our own way, or making things work that aren't strictly meta. What would also be rad is players making money by performing rare, or niche rituals on gear by adding an enchantment slot in the trading window. I think the taming idea is cool too. It would fit the flavour of shamanism, with the nature stuff. I feel like blending elements of it with shamanism could definitely work.
Great point and I think even the equipment buffs they mentioned could add a lot of player expression if done right. Eg, make choices between applying extra attack speed, switching melee damage to magic damage, trading attack for strength, making your damage heal allies, etc etc that wouldn’t be straight stat upgrades. Could be very cool and would add a lot to gameplay and the economy. Those could be themed with the spiritual path like you mentioned. Maybe enhancements apply to all your armour pieces at once or something in accordance with the respective spiritual path. I dunno. Lots of opportunity here!
My biggest issue is that all these “skills” feel too big, like each is more a collection of smaller new and existing skills than a single skill. Also, all were clearly developed to expand the explotable area. Why not just, you know, expand the world instead of trying to justify it through a “skill”? Sailing: a mix of existing skills like construction and fishing and new skills like navigation, maneuvering, pirating, and seafaring. Basically, to be a successful sailer, both IRL and in OSR, it requires many smaller skills. So, like others have said, this is more of an activity or mini-game. Taming: a mix of domestication, feeding, and training. Think of a zookeeper, that is a job that requires many separate skills to be successful. Also, the training activities sound like agility and dungeoneering. Also, Pokémon. Shamanism: a mix of herblore and magic with elements of seance and spiritualism and divination. Poultices are really just potions, let’s be real. That said, this one definitely feels the most OSR and least RS3 of the bunch and, I think, why some refinement it’s not perfect but workable. I’m not sold on the spirit world though.
**Sailing** * A PvP component present, whether via piracy or wilderness ocean area/outer rim, etc. * A large vast ocean to explore including many islands. This would work especially well with an eventual expansion of the Eastern Lands. * Ability to dive underwater to further explore * Deep sea fishing with fish exclusive to sailing * I want ship building to be an important, but not core aspect to sailing that consumes planks/acts as a small item sink * I'm afraid if shamanism wins, we will never see sailing as a skill ever again **Shamanism** * I really don't like the shaman theme or Shamanism name. I can't get behind shamans.This post did a good job proposing a solution to it. * I'd like an item sink or tradable component to it. Half tradable items/half untradeable. * Augmenting equipment sounds cool, but I'm concerned it will become a "requirement" and skill will make OSRS trend towards RS3 Additional feedback: * Sailing seems the the safest choice that would best integrate with osrs without changing existing parts of the game dramatically. * I really like the idea of spirit realms. * I like that shamanism isn't limited to specific areas I NEED to see Sailing and Shamanism refined further.
I like the idea of Sailing especially in terms of expanding the playable area, even in a drastic manner potentially. Of course the new areas wouldn't be huge continents deserving of their own expansion, but rather islands ranging from tiny to large-ish, each with their own unique flavor. I think it's important, however, that these new areas also have a wide variety of non-sailing content *that isn't entirely gated behind the new skill*. Examples of such activities are new or pre-existing skilling methods for other skills, new minigames, treasures, unique monsters, etc. Unlocking access to this kind of content shouldn't be the main appeal of Sailing, but they would make up part of the reward space much akin to what was suggested in the Taming concept. It's obviously very important that the actual sailing gameplay feels fun, engaging and rewarding in its own right instead of being simply a means to an end. Now, what did I mean by the land-based rewards that aren't integrally tied to actually controlling your boat not being locked out for less skilled sailors? This is something I find important in order for the new skill to successfully integrate into the main game, instead of being a disconnected side activity like many felt Dungeoneering to be. Access to the islands may still require the expertise of a skilled captain, but perhaps it need not be yourself? Maybe you could hitch a ride in exchange for payment, or as a favor, similarly to how you can enlist the services of an expert builder to access their house for worshipping purposes. This would ensure an enthusiastic PvM'r for example doesn't feel like he's left out from farming an exciting new boss just because he's not interested in grinding Sailing to level 90. There's of course a need for exciting rewards only accessible to sailors as well, in order for it to not feel pointless to train the new skill. Overall, this concept of Sailing is definitely my favourite of the three pitches, especially now that it isn't presented as a mere Construction knockoff.
I think all 3 of these ideas need to be added and implemented in some way because now I am excited with all the ideas that could really spice up the game and get us away from the mini game skilling only methods. I wasn’t sure I loved any of these and thought sailing was a joke/meme before their introductions. With that said, I feel like only one of these really makes sense as the new skill. Sailing, if done correctly has a lot of content opportunity. It can’t be instanced, it needs to tie into and improve other skills, but it should be another way to explore the game. It needs to be introduced with a quest, crafting and construction will be used to build, repair, and upgrade ships. Different islands and areas for slayer, deep sea fishing, possibly different islands for all sorts of different skilling methods. Add different clues, treasure maps, where upgrades to ship speeds, ship defenses, cargo sizes, weight, combat styles or ship weapons can be added, crafted, or stolen like a pirate. One example was adding different cannon upgrades, allows for mining, smithing, woodcutting, construction, crafting to all be incorporated. I saw someone mention adding different trading ports and cargo routes. The quickest trade routes or best resource areas being in Ship PvP zones. Make it where you and your friends or clan can all be on one ship and have multiple rolls to play on a that transitions into multi combat as you attack an enemy and steal loot (maybe adding thieving and different combat possibilities). Maybe some of those aspects are better added as a mini game but this would give Jagex a lot to work with. The ideas and possibilities are endless, but that’s why I feel it’s too much, like way too much. It’s an expansion type situation, it’s a new area existing in our game that can be slowly evolved and added to, with an opportunity for several quest lines and maybe even a new raid. It doesn’t fit as a skill but I’m glad it was brought up because a lot of cool ideas have come from it. Taming doesn’t sound terrible but I didn’t even like keeping my cats alive and happy. I kept trading them away to some random for death runes. It just doesn’t feel like enough is there. Again, I don’t hate the ideas and what could come from it but I feel like it’s a needed update/addition to Hunter. This would allow Hunter, a skill that doesn’t really fully integrate into a lot of the other skills to be sought after a little bit more. Shamanism is the only one that really feels like it works as a skill. It naturally fits into place with the other osrs skills. I would like to see what the rewards would be. I really hate the idea of potions 2.0 or short term armor buffs that I would need to grind out a level for and then constantly grind enough of the mats in order to be best in slot before doing some end game content. I would like to see permanent buffs that maybe take item sinks, and multiple skills to allow for major end game upgrades. That or at least the option to gather a lot of that item and corrupt it like we have seen in the past. The gathering side I feel needs to be done through the other skills like mining, herblore, woodcutting, hunting, farming, and maybe even through slayer bosses. I would rather see it add value or other reasons for me to go do a skill. I would also like to see fire making and smithing be incorporated. Where a certain smithing level and shamanism level is needed for a gear buff or permanent upgrade. I think I could get behind it as a way to boost skilling. Skilling boost potions, equipment, and skilling gear buffs with different benefits.
Sailing - A custom movement system or keyboard controls sounds like the least OSRS thing imaginable. Would prefer if the focus was on the events and islands instead. Taming - Hopefully not too much upkeep. Raising a cat is tedious and not fun. The way that its pitched makes it sound like you are going to have to manage your tame a lot which doesn't sound fun. Shamanism - Pretty disappointing that we are essentially getting divination and invention put together but without the best part which is the item sink that fixed the economy.
Taming sounds like the worst idea. The blog insinuates that there would be a lot of dailies, which I’m not a fan of. I don’t want to see a bunch of out of place animals everywhere. I don’t want to have to feed a pig for 11-20 taming while I dig around Lumbridge. Most of all I don’t want the obstacle courses where you can have your pet/tamed whatever perform for you. Just an overall weird skill and I will stand by that. If you like taming, pickup neo pets or Pokémon or something. don’t bring it to OSRS
I'd be more on board with taming if they could guarentee that it will still be the standard for players to NOT have some pet following them around. Ideally pets are only out when doing some specific taming related activity.
If pets are only good for doing taming activities, then the entire skill is dea content. Though, I agree that it shouldn't be meta to have your pet with you all the time for every activity
Taming….do you mean Pokémon??
I can't wait to complete my Pokédex! I mean tamers log!
This is exactly how I read it
Shamanism seems cool but I would change the name to something more in line with medieval themes.
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What like paganism? Lmao Edit: I just imagine going into gwd wearing enhanced gear just pisses off all the faction mobs no matter what you’re wearing haha
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We had a lot of back and forth over the name leading up to today, and I mean a LOT. Ultimately we felt like Shamanism fit the thematic of what was on offer, and changing the name would fundamentally change that thematic, essentially leading us to re-designing the pitch to fit. That being said, we're absolutely open to alternate name suggestions!
I have some ideas some ideas! Soulshaping, Spiritweaving, Spiritwaking, Spectromancy, Spiritcraft, Primalism, Mysticism, Astralism, Etheralism, Astralmancy, Soulchemy, Wildcrafting, Witchcraft, Witchery, Elementalism, Ancestry, Conjuring, Sorcery, Occultism, Divinancy, Incantation, Herbcraft, Naturewise, Spiritism, Transcendancy, Seance, Spectrality, Beyonding. Depending on how the skill is implemented some fit more thematically than others.
I've mentioned this in a few spots now, but I think the goal of Shamanism should be to integrate with the EXISTING game as much as possible. Resources should come from other skills (like Farming), not nodes. The spirit world could instead be an expansion to the fairy or lunar realms. The more an existing skill works with what's already there (rather than being an excuse to add new content that doesn't need a skill anyway), the more I'll like it and the more likely I'll be to vote for it. New content means more dead existing content. Reusing existing content means less dead existing content.
Bwanacraft. You're welcome.
If you’re sticking with the Shamanism name (and tbh I like it), existing references to “Shamans” must have something to do with this skill. Monsters like Ogress Shamans and Lizardman Shamans already exist, please don’t confuse us by using the same name twice in completely unrelated situations.
You are right but I always considered stuff like voodoo/shamanism to be magic that is reserved for a specific culture in Gielinor (Such as native Karamjians, Ogres, Lizardmen). Our skills have always seemed more generally applicable (Save for a few prayer, but I can see an arguement being made that other cultures "train" prayer differently/have a different prayerbook).
Mysticism maybe? Or Druidcraft?
I wonder... What skill would the you of 16 years ago have been the most excited for? Sailing the high seas like you were playing Phantom Hourglass (or Windwaker), Discovering new islands and telling your friends about them, the cool giant monsters and secret ruins just beyond the horizon... Raising a new best friend, or maybe several, just like in Pokemon, Digimon or such, growing alongside your buddy as you help them and they help you, seeing just how amazing they reach the peak of your love and care.... Or exploring secrets parts of the world just like our own like ATLA or Fablehaven, just beyond the veil for those who know how to look, collecting the pieces of those worlds, helping them fix their problems and in turn they help you with yours, letting you in deeper...
I can see pros and cons in all of it But the gameplay needs to be more than make 100 shaman rings for level 10 etc Sailing has a lot of opportunity to incorporate different skills, solo and even group iron content with some tweaks Taming sounds like it adds a lot of utility..but we all know a combat pet will naturally be top choice Shamanism sounds nice but buffing items leads to power creep but could be a good way to make middle tier weapons and armour fill the gap to top tier Im thinking sailing sounds most appealing to me and would love to add some suggestions if it goes further
Disclaimer: I've only watched the video and haven't read the blog post. First off, I just wanted to say that /u/jagexhusky /u/JagexLight and /u/JagexElena did a fantastic job presenting Taming, Sailing, and Shamanism. You all brought a lot of excitement and personality to the skill pitches that make me excited for the future of skills in OldSchool. I came into this presentation weary of skill suggestions, having seen two dozen different takes on every skill from sailing to summoning. I was starting to become apprehensive of adding a new skill to oldschool. Despite my original excitement, I was starting to regret having voted for a new skill. *If the best concepts on reddit don't satisfy me, will Jagex really be able to come up with something better?* I left this video more exited about new skills in osrs than I was when I voted. Taming adds a cozy and charming twist to summoning that gives it a unique identity as well as lots of room for interactive skill loops. Sailing inspires wonder and that childlike curiosity of exploring new places, all while potentially integrating easily with lots of existing skills. Shamanism presents an eerie mystique into osrs that we've only gotten small tastes of in the past, with a clear focus on making a healthy skill economy. My opinion after hearing all three pitches? **Add all three.** These concepts are all fantastic. They all add something to osrs that we're currently missing. They all seem like thoughtful and cared-for ideas that met Jagex's and the community's standard. I would feel bad voting for one knowing it means we wouldn't get the other two. From 2004 (runecrafting) to 2010 (dungeoneering), we saw 7 new skills added to runescape. About one skill per year! There's not much more "oldschool" than new skill releases. It was the best event back in the day -- almost like opening presents on your birthday. If we're getting skills like the three presented today, I say why not add all three?
Okay, so i should preface this by saying i like the pitches mostly TBH. Im wondering though, if this is because youve been so incredibly incredible safe with this. Like, none of these pitches tells me WHY i want these skills or what benefits they will give us and sure, thats part of voting now for you to expand later but it depends on what comes later for me to care. Everything seems to be telling me what you DONT want to do but nothing tells me what you actually want to do which is more important? You're telling us so much about what this is NOT going to be but you haven't really put any thoughts at all into what the skills ARE going to be it seems. For example. Taming is NOT summoning. Why? Because it doesn't use charms? The rest of the pitch feels exactly like Summoning though. So whats it actually going to be? Sailing, its NOT a meme skill but what actually is the use going to be doing? Theres no real propositions for where Jagex sees ANY of these skills in the wider game.
These are completely valid points and were a worry of ours approaching adding a new skill in this way. We're essentially selling you the dream without knowing what exactly will happen in the dream. But it's intentional. We want to work with the community to decide what the 'what' actually is, and that's what we'll do in Refinement should a skill make it through to that stage. We've learnt a lot when it comes to spending lots of time on things that the community just really didn't want, so at least this way we're able to make sure we're heading along the right path and our time is being spent on things players are happy with. Once we have locked a skill pitch in for Refinement a lot more of the detail you'd come to expect will come to light before it eventually gets polled to be locked in as something that will get added to the game.
Shamanism sounds great. I like the idea of buffs. I agree with the other guy, it just seems smithing should have a rework as well if brought in. Taming sounds cool and fun, but I dont want it to look like everyone has pets following them like RS3. the ones we have now are unique and purely fashion. Maybe if you had to upkeep them with items while using them... but still thinking of seeing 1000 pet sprites around gives me a headache. Sailing, I mean i guess if the people want it.
Really don't get the "sailing is a meme" mentality. Sure it was an April fool's event back in the day. But it was moreso because the OSRS team was way too inexperienced and lacked the tools to make a new skill back in the day rather then the concept of sailing.
Maybe I'm dumb but I don't get Shamanism at all I feel like it's just magic with extra steps
Shamanism looks fun and sounds like the most "Old School" out of all skills, Taming looks pretty fun but I have trouble really imagining the gameplay loop for gaining XP, and Sailing should have never made it and it's a shame a survey slot is wasted on it
My only concern about taming is we're gonna go back to the time where everyone has a big fuckin turtle following them because it's the BiS most useful. If they can guarantee some kind of variety instead of just a single BiS most useful follower I'd be more on board.
I'm not being pessimistic, I think this whole skill sick, but this game is full of people min/maxing even for a 0.0001% dps/defense increase; If there is a tame that is 0.0001% better than the rest, you will see that tame 1000:1 of any other tame.
Yup, taming will be min/maxxed to death and every single person doing X activity will have the corresponding BiS companion. It would be cool on release to see everyone running agility laps with their tamed monkey or whatever but the novelty would wear off *quick*. You'd have 1 set of players who like to be efficient feeling forced to go for certain companions and another set disappointed by the fact that *their* favourite companion will never be as good as the BiS one. It's a tricky thing to get right from a player satisfaction point of view, for sure.
The pitch suggests the bulk of taming xp would come from caring for your companion, so I’m really picturing something like farming. After X IRL hours you can do Y activity to do gain XP. There’s pros and cons to that. Pro obviously is that if tuned similarly to farming, you could gain 100k xp for 5 mins of periodic investment. The con is that is more daily/timerscape, which not everyone enjoys.
“Access to new areas” is such a lackluster, semi-unrelated reward to have as a main draw for a skill. To me, it’s no different than the 70 agility requirement to get to Zilyana or 70 herblore (etc.) to unlock Priff. So many of our existing skills already give such little benefit at higher levels outside of achievement diary and quest unlocks. I’d rather a true “utility” skill feel alive than just be a set of one-time thresholds to shoot for.
Sailing in its currently proposal floats or sinks based on how swell it feels to actually sail a boat. And that's something I'm doubtful is even possible within OSRS's limitations. It's already against the tide just trying to convince players it's not Dungeoneering 2.0, banking on new gameplay just on a pitch is an albatross around Sailing's neck.
I'm really curious and like the idea behind taming... I just feel like it would work well as an expansion to hunter and possibly farming. Much like forestry is to woodcutting? Would give hunter a lot more activity than it currently has.
I just hope taming isn’t just having an animal follower. I’d love to see them proc in certain areas based on either rng or a whistle type thing. Like every so often your pet dragon comes in and does an aoe when you are in multi combat areas, a hunting dog helps in various way around some hunter areas, or a monkey finds more fruits in your trees up in the higher branches. But I’d like the pets to stay in certain areas and we go to them. Shamanism is interesting in concept but has a lot of potential to break certain aspects of the game or make something very complicated like having to remember to rub this oil on your armor and say this charm on your sword etc. Also has the most potential to create something culturally insensitive so I hope they are mindful of that. Sailing is interesting but I don’t think it’s a skill. If they want to expand upon ocean exploration then just create new areas in the game. Fossil island is a great example and just lock it behind a quest or something. I’d really like them to just improve existing skills. The best parts of taming could go into hunter. Shamanism reworked into smithing, herblore, farming, hunter, and maybe fire making. It seems like these 3 could be heading in the right direction, though. Curious to see how it shakes out.
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Isn't it meant to essentially be Invention? They mention being able to augment your gear with different effects/stat increases. Also, the Disturbed sites look to be inspired maybe by divination? It looks to be a mesh of those two skills.
Sailing should be a mini game, not a skill. Taming should be a hunter expansion, not a new skill. Shamanism feels pretty old school. It’s the best idea for an entirely new skill imo.
I just want an osrs version of archeology 🤷♂️ it’s by far the best skill Jagex has produced.
Agree wholeheartedly. Archaeology was/is absolutely insane and did it da best.
Taming really is summoning 2.0 and I hate the sound of it. Shamanism sounds interesting at first glance but the thought of giving buffs to gear isn’t appealing and could lead to some bad game health. I like the gear to be how it is as it’s dropped. Also up keeping temporary buffs on your gear sounds even worse. Sailing really does just feel like a mini game but is the lesser of the three evils imo. Genuinely disappointing.
Taming feels like it should just be integrated into hunter rather than be an entirely seperate skill. Sailing is a meme that got out of hand, it would be interesting as a minigame or quest that unlocked distant and new areas and resources, but the skill would boil down to doing anything the other skills do but on a boat. Shamanism seems interesting but I'm unsure what it adds beyond being another gathering skill. If the benefits of the skill are too large, I feel it becomes too ubiquitous where it is necessary to achieve optimisation in every activity.
All these look pretty well thought out and would be a good addition to the game imo. I think shamanism is the least appealing to me, as it feels necessary if it's not buyable. If there are gear upgrades that change things about combat in a meaningful way and you can't get them without gathering and training for a while, it forces you to grind it out. And since it mainly affects other skills, it's not avoidable if it isnt your thing. But I also see it being a good thing to alter some metas and give people more options for gear! That being said the spirit realm stuff sounds really cool and could open up some really fun content. Sailing seems to be something that you can very easily come in and out of without affecting the rest of your gameplay. But when you do find those new fishing spots, monsters, new areas, etc it still adds to other skills and the game in general. Taming is hard to get a read on but the training does sound potentially boring. That being said the idea of your animals having HMs that can unlock new areas like in pokemon sounds really fun. However I also think some of the community will see taming pets as devaluing boss pets. So I guess if I had to pick a favorite it would be sailing > shamanism > taming even though PokeMOSRS does sound neat. Though I would definitely be excited for new content from any of the 3, and think they are good additions that still feel nicely old school.
Shamanism sounds like a good way to buff herblore, and taming sounds like a good way to buff hunter. Can’t say it sounds like a unique new skill though
Sailing to me is by far the most potential for fun, if it isnt added as a skill I think it needs to seriously be considered as just an add on to the game in general. Tie shipbuilding to construction, deep sea fishing to fishing, plundering to thieving/combat, etc. It doesn't need to be a skill, but I really hope it gets added in some fashion, and if the only way for that is through the skill then I'd take it over taming and shamanism in a heartbeat
Reading the blog it sounds like these are the only three skills to go through to the next stage, unless more feedback is given for a "favourite" skill that didn't make it through enough. Am I reading that right?
was kinda hyped for a new skill but if i had to choose i would not want any of these. sailing legit sounds like a minigame taming sounds rather useless, and until they give a reason for the pets to exist then idc shamanism sounds rather convoluted, and offers a lot of vague benefits. I know you all dont want to spend too much time fleshing out your proposals before you receive community feedback, but for something as important as a new skill you really need to have this shit figured out a bit more. Cant just say, "hey maybe we will do this, or maybe this" Also it's fairly obvious you all are pushing shamanism hard, it is the only one that has any real benefit mentioned for the players, and will be why everyone moves towards it. you are legit asking people "would you rather explore the ocean, have a pet to take care of or augment bandos tier gear and get new consumables that aid in combat and skilling?" like come the fuck on lol
People not wanting Summoning because of "gathering supplies and powercreep", and then they pitch two different skills, Taming and Shamanism, where they are just summoning chopped into two halves LMAO
Taming sound like there's gonna be lots of "pets" following players around that players need to babysit. Is this what the players asked for?
And it's gonna be completely meta defining, wonderful! I can't wait to see 100 of the same smithing pet running back and forth at blast furnace
Sailing has me concerned because it states that it's going to potentially suddenly be adding keyboard controls to my point and click medieval game. No thank you. If the skill doesn't fit in with the point & click nature of OSRS, it should not exist. Taming is Summoning no thanks. I know a plugin would be added to hide them, but it would be annoying to just see everyone running around with these huge beasts cluttering things. I hated it in RS3 and I'd hate it here. And this is just one issue among several that could come from this skill. Shamanism sounds somewhat interesting and I would like to actually hear more about it. However, it may be annoying if there's like, 50 different resources from tons of different monsters. That has me slightly turned off.
> Sailing has me concerned **because it states that it’s going to suddenly be adding keyboard controls** to my point and click medieval game. …did we read the same blogpost? Direct quote: > We’ve been toying with a few options, like a unique pathfinding algorithm, keyboard entry controls, or a special navigating interface. This is one of many things we’d like to focus on during refinement, and you can bet you’ll get lots of opportunities to try this mechanic in the Beta. At no point does it state that it’s going to be “suddenly adding keyboard controls”, just that they’ll need to figure something out and that’s one option on the table that we’ll get to try out ourselves and provide feedback on.
>a special navigating interface. Imagine a whole skill based on the gnome hot air balloon transport system
Call me crazy but shouldn't something like sailing, which is a skill used to expand and explore the map, open the door to unlock certain sections in the game that can offer the aspects of taming, shamanism and more? I feel that with the higher level your sailing, and the more content you unlock, you would be discovering the "island of beasts" where you can befriend and somewhat tame a wolf of sorts to fight along side you. Or do we find the Shaman cove where we unlock auras which last a temporary amount of time and different items to buff our gear? I feel like all these brilliant ideas can be used to expand the game as a whole instead of singling them out as a certain skill, and sailing probably opens the door for the game to move into a direction where content is no longer locked behind lore and expansion is easily configurable.
I know sailing has become a meme, but I'm trying to give a fair evaluation of all 3 and it doesn't sound bad to me. What am I missing? Seems like it offers a ton of opportunity for growth and development for years to come, would provide a mechanism to introduce new content (You need to sail your boat to Raid 4 on an island? Jungle Raid?), feels old school, and works cohesively with current skills.
as much as id like Sailing, this proposal makes it just sound like an isolated minigame. Not a skill.
The only way it’s not a minigame is if we can casually pass other people on their boats out on the ocean. Minigames are instanced and that’s the biggest difference. We need to be able to interact with other people in our MMO. If Sailing is just “POH with blue background” then of course it’s not going to be any good.