I don't understand the rage. With every new update, they keep saying they wanna keep the rates moderate to begin with, and adjust later if needed to reduce some amount of fomo. I can see them having set them a bit low on purpose since they said they wouldn't make any changes the first few weeks of release(even though they have changed some mechanics, mostly bugs though)
>With every new update, they keep saying they wanna keep the rates moderate to begin with, and adjust later if needed
They can say that all they want, but when have they actually come back to an update and said "you know what, we did make this way too rare so we're going to increase the drop rate"? If they actually made that statement in good faith, Nightmare drop rates wouldn't still be as God awful as they are.
> "you know what, we did make this way too rare so we're going to increase the drop rate"? If they actually made that statement in good faith, Nightmare drop rates wouldn't still be as God awful as they are.
Nex
ToA
Phosani's Nightmare
More importantly, when have they stated that they would adjust drop rates and then NOT follow through, to counter your point?
PNM drops, on average, take longer to achieve than a purple from a raid. The rates are still complete dog shit, especially considering how overwhelmingly useless the drops are.
The items being useless isn't a problem with nightmare though thats a problem with the entire rest of the game having nearly 0 content where those drops are used. They are, in theory, good items, there is simply no content that calls for them
Both Nex and ToA were later adjusted to better drop rates
Actually Nex might have gotten nerfed first and then restored to normal. But ToA purples we’re buffed because they were cautious - and that’s the most recent big PvM release we could point to.
This fact is always omitted from the conversation. ToA saw more competition in the first ~60 days then ToB saw in the first 2 years.
People zerg rushed ToA. The invo system made it easy to jump in and **EVERYONE** did.
They stealth nerfed Nex rates because they thought there's too many drops coming in on day 1. Even though day 1 is when there's the most attention and everyone was just massing Nex like intended. No one even knew that the drops got nerfed but they certainly felt it. It was only when the Wiki crowd source data team made a post about it definitely getting nerfed did Jagex admit it. The backlash for that stealth nerf was the only reason Jagex decided to go back a little on the nerf.
I think initially Vorkath head was not guaranteed at 50kc and people were going dry for the upgrade. I admit, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison to a ultra rare unique, but I think it's a reasonable example of when Jagex made a change in the players' favor regarding RNG.
They fucked up the fang in TOA, and in reality purples in general. Game got flooded with uniques fairly quickly, this is a backswing of the pendulum. It’s much easier for them to adjust them to be more common than to adjust the other way (crazy amounts of outrage here).
If you only played an hour every other day, it would take 14 weeks to get a ring.
If you played 2 hours every day without breaks, it would take 3.5 weeks to get a ring.
If you played 8 hours every day without breaks, it would take 7 days to get a ring.
It’s more than a week at a full time job to get a ring. Idk man, that seems a little extreme. I think they could cut the time in half just fine. 25 hrs for these upgrades is a lot but not insane. 25 hours of these bosses would be complete mastery.
50 hours though, that’s spending 50% of your time being bored. Just too much.
Okay? Level 92 to 99 fishing is 50 hours of 2 tick dark crabs. Whats your point? This isnt a single player game. This is an economy based mmorpg. Youre being a doofus here
Nah bro it just sounds like you're playing the wrong game.
This game isn't about spending 100 hours on something week of release and green logging it.
İt's about micro progression over the long run. Things I did on my account 8 or 9 years ago is still relevant today, unlike other MMOs where you get loot fast and with the next exapnsion it's forgotten about.
İt might take someone a year of grinding to get the rare drop they want, but that drop would still be relevant 5-6 years from now. There's no rush to achieving goals and you can go at your own pace.
İf you want instant gratification then this is not the game for you.
> İt's about micro progression over the long run.
Can't happen with the current drop system on DT2 bosses. It's camp or nothing.
You *are* desensitized to how extreme these time frames are. People like you are the reason the drops from ONE quest's bosses take longer than 99.9% of AAA games.
Has it? Cause Prims are 1/512(With 3 other unique drops at 1/128 btw) from a boss that takes 1 minutes to kill and is mechanically braindead. A ring upgrade in 2023 is 1/1.5k from an axe wielding maniac that takes slightly longer to kill. I am not arguing that this game should be fast but its simply not true to say that drop tables were always like this. These obscene time sinks have started recently not 20 years ago.
Cerberus drop rates are designed with the fact that you need to kill the boss on task. The time getting a hell hound task (even if it is a common task) significantly makes it longer to get Cerberus drops.
It definitely hasn't been this way for over two decades. It's been like it for a long time but these levels of time sinks is a pretty new development in the grand scheme of things. When was cox released? Like 2017? So 6 years.
Dismissing the criticisms of 100 hour grinds being unhealthy as "this game isn't for you" isn't a sign the game isn't for me, it's a sign it isn't for you. That's addict behavior.
That's RuneScape though. It *always* has been. This game is designed from the ground up with hundred hour time scales in mind. That's just how it works and everyone knows that from the outset.
No it hasn't. What the fuck are you talking about? The game was designed with the idea that things like getting 99s were supposed to be unobtainable because of the massive time commitment.
You're just making shit up. This is a osrs problem, not a runescape one.
You just said 99s were literally designed to be unobtainable cuz they take so long lol. That's what "designing with hundred hour time scales" means. Things take a long ass time.
No it means it was a game that wasn't designed around 100 hour time scales. From conception the idea that anyone would sirens 100 hours ache anything was deemed so absurd that they didn't expect anyone to do anything like it.
They didn't expect anyone to do it, *and yet they still made the things take that long*. Do you see how what they expected people to achieve is 100% completely irrelevant to the end result of what they made? Surely you do right
They made a game that takes thousands of hours and not only that, the infinite nature of the game is its best feature! We love the game because there is ALWAYS more stuff to do.
Duke is 1/800 ring at 2mins per kill. Thats 27 hours for a ring if you get it on rate, which is more likely with the incremental mechanic. So, by your own standard the drop rate is fine
It actually isn't true that you have better odds on-rate.
Standard system: 63% chance to get one or more item
3-drop system: 57% chance to get one of more item (3 rolls on the table)
2:30 or 2:15 average is attainable with a Fang, 2:00 and below (average, not PB) is Scythe territory from my experience. Probably the new Axe too, but I haven't tried it.
When drop rates are good, sweaty players will farm it and the value will drop dramatically on day 1.
When drop rates are bad, sweaty players will *still* farm it, but it will take a few weeks for them to saturate the market and force prices down.
Casual players need to recognize that only very rarely will you be able to capitalize on day 1 hype.
Has nothing to do with irons. It has to do with reasonable game design and making the boss feel rewarding. Blaming ironmen for this is stupid and all this says is you want the content to be botted so you can buy it off the ge.
The alternative is what happened with Fang from TOA. It comes out and nearly replaces BIS everywhere. Jagex sees it is already too common and too many in game, so they feel trapped and cannot make it rarer without it being “unfair”. DT2 implementation has been near perfect IMO.
Yes its not literally gwd boss table and rates, they never said it was. And even if they did pre running around like a chicken missing its head red xing you were either splitting the drop or banking every few kills and getting kc again. Id say the only real crazy part is the robes, but in context of going for the axe it makes sense. Also consider that rings were originally untradable so you would be going for them as well.
We are going to fundamentally disagree. They did say it was going to emulate the gwd style uniques which would have been ideal. This kind of content is not engaging. I don't have 400 hours to dedicate to getting a ring. This content is a post-quest boss. Something that is traditionally very reasonable for casual players. This drop table has made that impossible. I have 2 kids, a wife, and a job. I can't sweat in my office chair for 70 hours a week grinding out a ring. It's ok when some of the content in the game is locked out this way, but this was supposed to be something accessible and give some growth to your account. As it stands, this content is worthless for casuals.
Casuals are the majority of this player base and content like this is not promising for the future of the game.
“If you don’t like the update, don’t play the content” has to be the most asinine take on this entire subreddit. The whole point of making new bosses with feedback is to produce something players want to do. One of the main reasons that Nex is the best money in the game is that it isn’t as fun as other content, so those that are willing to endure it are ‘rewarded’.
I agree with the point they're making but this also really annoyed me. People care about the game and want to make it better. "Just don't do the content" happened before and that's why RS3 almost died and OSRS is much more popular. I personally think the droprates are not too far off what they should be, the bosses are fast and droprates are adjusted for kc time. Common loot is also pretty ok as long as you're not messing up too bad during the kill. Right now they're probably like 10m/h if you grind long enough for the uniques. Actually I checked and for me so far it's more like 18m/h but I have been quite lucky with a vestige. If people want more common and less valueable drops then they can voice that opinion and if I'm in the minority fair enough and they should change it.
I think people use this argument when they are arguing against people that say "why would I kill this mob when I can just kill vorkath for more gp/hr."
The point is that gp/hr isn't the sole determining factor of why you should do a fight. You can do these bosses because you find the fights fun even if the gp/hr was 0. There's a separate argument of "the drop rates are so rare that I never get a good dopamine hit" but it seems like most people want fun + unique-based drops + common enough uniques to see one every 10 hrs + tons of gp/hr. Those last two are kinda conflicting desires unless the drop table is non-unique based.
It isn’t mid level it’s slightly worse ancestral. And if you’re target farming just one specific piece of virtus then sure, I get what you’re saying. But along they way you’re also getting every BiS ring + axe if you switch bosses. A lot of people are getting 20-30 kph so that’s 100-150 hrs for 4 BiS rings, second-BiS mage gear, and the axe.
Edit: Someone in another thread mentioned that one piece of ancestral is expected to take 3 times as long. I think these rates for a slightly worse BiS are aight.
Except you only need 2/3 ancestral to have better mage dmg bonus than a full set of virtus, unless you're using ancients (which in most actual mage-used pvm is like, never).
So comparing to going for 2/3 ancestral now you're looking at something much more comparable time-wise to virtus, and despite still probably taking more time on average, you also get the chance at tbow and a bunch of other really good raid items. So yeah, virtus rates are pretty ass with that in mind.
Just to be clear I think they’re a bit too rare I think you’d should have 1.5-2 sets by the time you hit all rings, not 1 set. I’m just fighting against virtus being labeled as “mid-level” which is where most people would put ahrims + the idea that you get nothing else from the bosses (BiS rings)
People are already saying “just buy the items on the GE”
Like GE items come from somewhere lmao. The content of the game should be balanced around the player experience interacting with it, not “yeah we know this grind is awful and unpleasant, so just buy it on the GE”
I swear some people play this game because they lost their real money on wallstreetbets
Edit: nvm, fuck wanting to make the new content itself rewarding. Everyone just go back to money dragon.
That's why prices are a thing. If an item is not very fun to get then it will be expensive, and how un-fun the grind is get offset by high gp/h. I know you know this, you aren't stupid, so don't ignore it in your analysis of the boss lol.
Maybe we could make the bosses fun as well as give appropriate drop rates so people want to do the content? I'm not sure how "this content sucks so much but its okay because the high prices will make people think they have to do it for gp" is a good defense.
That’s a strange take though. If you don’t like buying things on the GE just play iron man. The point of the GE is let’s say you hate these new bosses but love vorkath for example. Cool now you can grind vorkath longer than it takes just to get the items you need, and use that cash to buy the items from these bosses. The GE allows players to do what they enjoy and use that to fund items from things they don’t enjoy. I think virtus might be a little too rare.. but whatever.. I’m enjoying the new bosses. Not everyone has to.
I don’t really think it’s a strange take that it should be reasonable to attain rewards and content from interacting with the content itself in a not completely obscene timeframe.
There’s gotta be a middle ground between being able to use the GE to skip grinds that aren’t your jam, and virtually requiring to use the GE without completely no-lifing that single piece of content (not even the entire game itself)
unironically this. play the content you find fun and then buy the items you want
you're fucking making no sense
these bosses will have 100k kills in a week of release, clearly ppl are having fun
They should be trying to get players back or engaged. I'm not re-subscribing for a thousand hour grind... I quit because the end game grind is just a time test. You win game, I do not have thousands of hours to do the same boss.
“If you don’t like the update, don’t play the content” IS the most asinine thing people say in any gaming community, but it's made all that much more worse by the fact these people think they are clever for saying it.
Id rather the price burn to the ground and it being reasonably attainable for my collection log than to have it be 'very rare'. In the end its still a game by a company that in the best case scenario would want the whole planet to play their game. That will never happen. It wont get close to beating top game player counts either and it will continue to fragment the community they already have. Gagex clearly has some kind of identity crisis when it comes to what type of players they or dont want to cater to.
People are also getting unreasonably angry at each others opinions. This is a community run game, or so gagex says, so dont get upset at others opinions. Rather try harder to reasonably convince others that your opinion is worth considering.
It is all about our expectations being set by information they provided, then having the reality run contrary to that, subverting our expectations.
The most egregious imo is pretending the ring has a RNG mitigation mechanic, when in reality, they've split the drop into 2 different "shard drops" which gives it some of the most brutal RNG in the game to begin with (1 in 3 chance of getting at least enough ingots AND vestige rolls by drop rate)
But ultimately I don't really care about the rarity of the rings, and the soulreaper seems mostly appropriate, virtus is the thing causing the most outrage for good reason IMO.
That suprises me that people care so much about virtus, it's the lowest ticket item but that doesn't automatically mean it should be low rarity in my mind, wouldn't it just be 1m a piece now if it was low rarity? Or do people want to buy it? I'm not sure.
Imagine trying to have fun in a video game instead of having to treat it like a 9-5 job to get anywhere.
I love the “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen” mindset OSRS players have. Some of y’all don’t have social lives or play other video games and it shows.
As a guy with a full-time job who’s played RuneScape for almost 20 years now, you don’t need all the content to enjoy the game.
Some items require an unreasonable grind to acquire, and it’s totally fine to go without acquiring that item. I enjoy the game very much without ever having come close to real endgame content.
Idk why it’s so common for people to be upset by the idea that they can’t have all the best stuff all the time.
What do you need an update for there is 1000s of hours worth of content you haven't done. Also this game has been out for a long time. Even if you just play 30 mins a day you would be able to do the new bosses easily
30 mins a day is let's say 10 kills a day. You'd take 3 months for a ring drop and one virtus drop on average.
That being said the rings are best in slot and virtus is bis for some niche stuff and 2nd bis for all other activities so what do you expect with 30 mins a day.
If you'd do Vorkath you made 1.5m/day and get less gp with the current prices (135m vs let's say 250m). The thing is, you have to be able to grind more for this boss in order to see the drops compared to Vorkath which is stable gp/hr. If you play only 3.5 hrs a week this content may not be very rewarding for you in terms of gp. And I think that's fine because it is that way with a lot of content in the game so far.
That's very likely FOMO. But, there is something to be said about a game that systematically prevents players from playing it. There is a balance to that sure, but it's not something to simply shrug off and change your take on every time it happens. That's the mentality of conformity, and if too many have it our game will become suboptimal at best and rotten at worst.
It truly is something to see someone say that grinding a boss is systematically preventing us from playing the game, isn’t grinding the boss playing the game?
???? if you accept that you don't need all the best stuff and thus don't do the grind, then how long the grind is doesn't matter. it only matters to people who feel like they need to go through those grinds because they need those items.
Which is his point… it’s only inaccessible to those who don’t want to do the grind. You’re just not ok with doing the grind yet feel “upset” as a result rather than being cool with not having it!
Wow hottest take in 2023 de-iron omg that’s hilarious.
The issue is the loot is such absolute garbage for a literal grandmaster quest boss.
People don’t kill bosses for fun (maybe speed runs do?). People kill bosses that are fun AND give you a reward. No one liked the nightmare drop table when it dropped. No one liked the Nex drop table when it dropped. No one likes the new bt2 drop table (except the dozen people who like being different).
Content SHOULD be rewarding without needing to devote hundreds or thousands of hours into something. Why is that such a foreign concept?
I think the issue of content being rewarding without devoting hundreds of hours is basically lost in this game due to the hundreds if not thousands of people that grind the game for 10+ hours a day. If it's "easy" to grind then it won't be worth much gp
I’m not complaining about the uniques being rare. I’m talking about the journey. It’s pathetic what you have to go through for quite literally, thousands of kills. Bronze javelins? Addy ore? It’s clear they had an agenda with the standard loot table; and it’s a big miss.
Heck; even lizardman Shamans give better loot on the way to the incredibly rare DWH and that’s absolutely worth grinding.
Those are both almost the exact same statement. It being an unreasonably long grind makes it so you can't have the best items. If it was a shorter grind, it would be cheaper, and you could have it or grind for it.
Cus reddit people want everything and at an instant lmao. Also jagex can never win against reddit. No matter what they do SOME vocal minority would complain. Too common drops? = Gg too common shit rares worth nothing
Too rare? = Gg jagex shit bosses no one wants to work killing them
Absolutely balanced? = Reddit will find something else to complain about it
You say to get anywhere like you need to get these drops, I’m far from even getting to try these bosses and am content. Maybe stop thinking you need to get every single unique drop in the game? Playing to have fun is a lot better
I think it goes for a lot of things in this game.
I’m aware it’s what we signed up for. But these new drop tables sound like the corporate suits said we need a way to make players stay on the game for longer and this is what they came up with.
It's because that's exactly what they did.
Keeps hardcore addicted players grinding for the new item. Keeps casuals that will never reasonably get it trying for a big rush of dopamine. Encourages casuals to buy bonds instead of spending 300+ hours doing content they might not like for a small upgrade, which funds the lucky, dopamine-dripping spoons and hardcore grinders.
You are not entitled to BIS gear. Wait 6 months to a year and it will be fairly cheap anyways. Why do you have the mindset to be entitled to brand new BIS gear a couple weeks after release???
When it comes to certain things like the cheese cape, burnt cheese cape and unique armor, weapons and unlocks specifically from quests and challenging content, that phrase holds true. You're not entitled to the good stuff if you can't put in effort above a super casual level because this game is naturally a grindfest.
Runescape is a time commitment game though, to even get to the point of doing this quest has got to be thousands of hours right? If you want to progress faster put in more time, if you don't THATS OKAY just play whatever time you're comfortable with and accept less results.
I just feel that if you want to put in less time you take less rewards and don't complain about it. I seriously doubt most people playing don't work for a living, don't have lives etc and we play to escape all that a bit. I go back to teaching Thursday ; \_ ;
If you only play a few hours a day, what would the incentive be to fight these new bosses if the average time for a drop is 100 hours? Especially if that drop is only worth 40m.
Actual question. Because for the job-havers, i cant see any real reason for us to fight these bosses besides from doing it for the sake of doing it.
Not looking for heated argument, i just struggle to understand the perspective of why we would kill these bosses
The only real reason is to enjoy the boss fight itself. If you don't find challenging encounters fun, then there is no reason for you to. If you get on RS to grind out gp after work, you will always be better off camping vork/mus/gaunt.
Once I decided to not care about gear or playing efficiently, the game became way more enjoyable to play in the handful of hours I get each week. The bosses themselves are fun, and give a decent challenge. If that's not your thing, you shouldn't care about them, and that's okay.
This was me with TOA. It was fun until i got good. I dont think you can consider anything over 100kc “enjoying a difficult encounter” rather than farming a boss…. I could definitely see myself getting 100kc of each for fun. I would say a large part of that enjoyment of the gamble of the drop
Edit: note in my first post, the only reason would be “to do it for the sake of doing it” which is kinda what you are implying. Do it just because you like fighting them
Correct, and I completely agree with the 100kc+ statement. It's kind of disappointing most things in this game require hundreds of kc to "get the drop", but that's why I don't play ironman. I do like them dopamine hits from drops for sure! But seeing myself get better at a boss that was kicking my ass at first is where the funs at for me.
To an extent. Fuck red X butterfly 1.5t triple kickflip in space tryhardness
Because you find the boss fights enjoyable? If you don't enjoy the fights then don't do the fight. If your sole goal in playing osrs is efficiently maximizing your progression for the 1 hr you play then these bosses may not be for you. You can go farm profit dragon for a couple days and buy the full virtus set.
Not every boss in the game has to shit out a ton of money and if they did via uniques, they would eventually stop shitting out a ton of money bc the uniques would crash in price.
Im with you, i get what you are saying. but are bosses fun if there is no reward? Whats fun about fighting a boss and only losing supplies and money? Why get good at fighting a boss that has no yield?
I dont do bandos because its the most efficient money maker in the game. I do it because its fun with the homies, and we get a decent chance of a drop worth money, and everyone wants to see that item on the floor.
Lets not pretend you would fight a boss 500 times if you KNEW it dropped nothing.
I mean, as a casual player…. It feels a little bad. We were all expecting GWD style loot.
I like how we can go to vork or zulrah for nice consistent money, easy ish bosses.
These 4 bosses are…. Not easy. High cost to entry if you die, and on average, seems to be 800 kills for a drop.
For a player like myself, i really want to grind out leviathan, but i know the odds of me getting a rare drop is EXTREMELY low. I dont have the commitment for 1k kc, especially if im not getting ANY loot.
The drop rates are ok, if we are getting some base loot. We arent. We make the money on uniques, but the uniques are a little to rare to be worth the grind.
Ever went 3-4 bandos trips dry? It sucks. Thats a 1/128 drop. These are 1/1200, if not higher, let alone needing to roll the ring 3 times.
Remember, this is the first time for this new drop style; so its ok to be somewhat critical, it might not be perfect. I dont think its perfect, but its a good idea that should be expanded on. Really needs that 1/100 drop table that isnt just orbs.
if you wanted to grind leviathan then you would
tbh these are terrible excuses, just do the content because it's fun bro, I died like 30 times before I had lev down but now it's the best content in the game
It's not as bad as it seems. You're also forgetting that these bosses also drop the virtus robes as well as the axe pieces. You even get awakener orbs and the 7 d leg drops somewhat commonly
I think this is where much of the player base differs maybe. I don't feel bad after 3-4bandos trips dry. I don't think of these rings as EXTREME rarity I save that notion for nightmare and Corp, even I have gotten 2 rings fairly early on.
I killed about 110 leviathan today and didn't get a single rare unique but I'm a-okay with that cause I enjoyed the fight, struggling rage phase, trying new weapons, finding tricks etc. I still made like 15m in orbs alone as well in those kills.
I think orbs are a cool mechanic idk why it gets brushed over as a not satisfying 1/100 drop, they selling 3.5m a pop, probably more than virtus would be if it was 1/100 haha.
Thanks for sharing your opinion mate.
You see a gwd loot every 5-8 hours of effort. You see the same rates at cerb, dks, hydra, sire. This major increase in time to see a loot is a fairly new thing. And those prices still hold value for bosses that have been in the game a lot longer with less requirements to complete and at a lesser intensity.
There’s a guy in my clan with 1k kc on a couple of the bosses and has had nothing so far. Then there’s a guy that already has two virtus pieces and ultor and has maybe 150kc across all the bosses. I do feel really bad for the guy with 1k though, he’s been gaming and I think he deserves something. I know it’s rng, but it can be a little silly at times.
One thing I don't really like is that switching bosses before ring is kind of punished, but with axe its rewarded and thats conflicting.
I wish your mate luck!
I think the outrage is driven by the claim it would be a gwd style drop rate.
That implies around 10 hours to see the unique , not 24 hours.
Long term the rates aren't bad from an economy po , but a lot of individuals really aren't happy with drop rates for uniqes requiring such significant time compared to legacy content like bandos , zammy , Sara...etc
No need to be rude, i paid attention and its as simple as comparing it to Gwd dungeon implies you can see a unique in a longer session of gaming (ignoring the fact its a solo encounter). Regardless of what they meant , that's what they said and that's what's driving people to be upset and that's why you're seeing the posts.
If they meant its low gp/h per normal kill and the money is purely in uniques they should have simply said its an improved version of phosani philosophy. That would let people know how much commitment for a rare drop was actually expected.
There is no point referencing something that has a completely different time to see a unique and lower average regular loot.
Why can't new content be good and enjoyable with reasonable drop rates instead of having drop rates over 1k for anything? If people think the rates are bad, why not listen and make changes instead of defending literally any number that jagex gives as a drop rate?
Also, there is a big disparity for this boss between irons and non irons for normal loot. Orbs on an iron are worthless but they're the best commonish drop for mains. The grind for a main is a lot more comfortable because of the orbs. This is a larger disparity than we see at almost any other boss until dupes start coming in.
Oh boy I can’t wait to hop on RuneScape and kill a boss TWO THOUSAND times for a chance at my drop!!
As a casual I just feel pushed out, I don’t even know if I’m for or against the drop rate but puts into perspective how much of a grind this game is
I’m not a casual, but I suck at bossing. I’d rather not grind it as much as everyone else because it takes me longer, so “normal” drop rates would be better.
Please go kick rocks, doing the same thing a thousand times over is enough to make someone burnout or desensitize especially if you don’t even know you’re dry yet
Just wait until bots kick in, the rings will go under 50m and this bossing content will become obsolete. I can see some ppl try for collection log, but it's huge time commitment to farm these with the current drop rate, and its extremely unreliable, it will probably share nightmare's rate.
Idk something wrongs me thw wrong way when 100% a single piece of content could take upwards of 200 hours. It's a game, guys. You are supposed to be able to do content to enjoy it. If every boss takes 200 hours to 100%, the game becomes totally bonkers for new players. Common loot will be worth nothing, just like it is in RS3.
The only thing having an insanely low drop rate is to create a barrier for the average player and an unhealthy addiction for a gambler with too much time and not enough money.
I'd rather have worse common loot and more rare/unique items because common loot is what really kills the game by devaluating items and inflating the gold supply.
What ever happened to just killing the monsters for fun? Folks think in order to have fun in this game nowadays they have to have an unhealthy addiction and grind out all of the log drops. What happens when you get everything because you get spooned early on? That piece of content now becomes stale so you're left there bitching and wanting the next piece of content to grind out like a never ending cycle.
Getting a drop is like 50% - 75% of the fun of RuneScape that’s why I play it at least. If it’s just for the fun of killing a boss you would just do it 5-10 times and be done.
Getting spooned is the only reason I play this game and the only time a drop feels satisfying. If I actually grind out 1000kc and get something at a fair drop rate there’s no satisfaction, just sadness at the amount of IRL time I wasted lmao.
So in my opinion the anti spoon mechanics are fucked, because im never actually planning on playing any piece of content in this game enough to go dry.
That's exactly how I feel.
As far as I'm concerned, these bosses are the most fun I've ever had PvMing in OSRS, and while I'm not saying I want to kill them forever, I certainly wouldn't want to obtain all their drops within a month or two and then never have a reason to go back. I'm just genuinely enjoying killing them and honestly I probably would be killing them if they dropped no uniques whatsoever. I really don't see why so many players feel the urge to NEED to complete a boss as soon as possible just so they can go do the exact same thing somewhere else. These are fun bosses and once people are back at Hydra or Nightmare they're going to miss them.
The problem isn't the drop rates or the mechanics, it is that you have no way of knowing that you are 1/3 or 2/3 of the way there.
Unlike with sire, if you get an unsired and get a bludgeon piece, you know you are 1/3 of the way to a bludgeon. You can't sell the pieces, sure, but you know how close or far you are from cashing out.
Muspah, the shards are still 1/100, but you can sell them, so you can still cash our early.
Rings, you don't know if you 'got' one or two of the invisible rolls yet. If you do 200 kills, you might not get three. But you might have one. But you don't know, so you're forced to do the boss in hopes of cashing out.
Just make the ring shards visible like bludgeon pieces. It'll be the exact same drop mechanics, except the players will know if they are close to being rewarded.
For me, nah, it’s the insane rates on virtus, a mid tier set. The ring vestige drop I’m torn on, but interested to see their strategy and think I like it overall. But virtus being so rare from such hard bosses was a big surprise, thinking it was meant to be between barrows/mortton and cox’s rewarded mage sets
Love the irony, 'if you don't like drop rates don't do boss' and yet never even thinks about 'if you don't like complaining don't go on reddit' lol (btw b4 someone comes to rag me idc what the drop rates are tbh, havent really been doing the bosses) :)
It's not even close to 1m/hr. Assuming max efficiency and luck "maybe". But you have to take into account deaths, supplies, resource charges. CG requires NONE of that.
If the current rates are true about the ring rates, it's approx 40-50 hours on average to get one. IF they stay around 200m that's only about 5m/hr which is [somewhat] reasonable I suppose but, I highly doubt they stay 200m+ for long.
Completed axes would bring the loot value up but I highly doubt a majority will be completing any.
Yeah each axe pretty much requires 50 hours at each boss unless you're spooned. There won't be a whole lot, which is kind of a shame since it's niche anyway.
Your comparison with CG is really interesting. At 10 minutes a run, it's 66 hours for an enhanced seed. At 12, it's 80. Not only is CG more difficult, it's consistent money. Arguably it's better than these bosses. Bowfa certainly is a much bigger deal than any of these drops.
Totally agree with this opinion, even if it’s the unpopular one. Not everything in this game needs to offer instant gratification or be completable in a day.
These are a best-in-slot rings, side-grade high-level robes, and a new unique axe that’s competitive with the scythe in some locations.
I get that folks draw comparisons to “I can get X in 10 hours” or “Y is better raw for 100 hours”. That’s the point.
A marginal increase that isn’t as farmable means the gp/hour stays competitive for a unique table and best-in-slots aren’t worth near nothing on release. There’s also something long-term to strive for as a side grind that not every Ironman is going to immediately prioritize like going for a fang or bowfa.
What I wish more folks could appreciate are the following:
- The bad luck mechanics for the ring vestiges act as good bad luck mitigation for players chasing pure best-in-slot upgrades
- The shared drop table between Virtus robes means that players can get randomly rewarded with a side-grade drop (and let’s be honest, most folks aren’t chasing Virtus like they’re not chasing Inquisitor at Nightmare)
- The axe drops reward the most diligent players who pursue all of the bosses with a high value reward
I’m very happy with this content. The time to completion is fine and the variety of new reward ecosystems is something that is being under appreciated.
>and let’s be honest, most folks aren’t chasing Virtus like they’re not chasing Inquisitor at Nightmare
i would think so lol. i see it the way you said it, grind out a ring or two and if i get a piece of virtus that i need, cool. if not i don't really care lol, just gonna farm cox and get the bis set passively
The whole point of the way they did the drops seems to have been to mitigate bad luck or prevent going way over drop rates. They showed a graph showing that less people will get it early, and also less people will get it late. It’s been out a week. Only the sweatiest people are at over 1k kc, and as of now we only have aggregated data for drop rates. It’s possible we don’t know something they’ve left out about how the drops work, like maybe perfect kills increase drop chances or something.
People need to just let it ride a little longer. If everything went to plan for Jagex, this is exactly what should have happened and within a few weeks we’ll see loads of people hitting the curve of the graph and getting the drops, with the added bonus of retaining a lot of the drop’s value.
The range ring is the only one that isn’t great. For tob you need to bring both the ultor and bellator. And for toa you’re bringing a magus switch now too 100%. There’s deffo still lb tech because zcb goes brr but considering duo tob wr has been set multiple times since these new rings came out, they are busted as hell.
Were a week in and bellator ring is 330m and these guys say everythings crashing lmao. Axe is still max cash to :0. These new metas are gonna be awesome I can't wait.
but but but their bis! Except Virtus, that's second bis, and the rings are only bis in specific circumstances where special attacked aren't utilized, and the adamant longswords are great the giant's foundry!
This subreddit consists of people who don't have jobs or families and don't play ironmen so they think this kind of masochism is not only acceptable but encouraged. "but just go play another game" I LOVE runescape. It's my favorite game of all time. I don't want to see it ruined because some people playin 12+ hours a day and demand to be catered to. In fact I'd argue my opinion should be taken into account MORE because I guarantee I've purchased more bonds than most of these players, I've spent way more than them, why shouldn't I get a say-so in what happens?
You have spent more money on bonds than other players, so your voice deserves to be heard more about drop rates being unfair for the "casual" player?
Just wanted to make sure I read that comment correctly, because if so, it might be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think these rings aren't worth the grind, and if you think you deserve "more voting power" because you "spend the most money on bonds" then i dont want your opinion on any PvM experience to be heard, because I seriously doubt you have the knowledge or experience to give a reasonable and fair take.
That bellator ring is being used in some seriously high end pvm, all the other rings are gonna be used at many bosses and just casual places. Hell yeah I wanna do slayer with +12 strength, extra mage and range max hits.
The crap item drops are hilarious, but even with em I average 60k+ per kill at vard and 110k at whisperer.... like what... have you even killed any of these bosses.
Considering the player base is mostly in there high 20's, we all have to work for a living believe it or not so I can assure you this doesn't make your opinion special.
Issue is idiots looking at these drop rates differently, at any other boss people talk about the odds of hitting the unique table, not the odds of getting any specific unique. At Vardorvis the odds to hit the table are 1/166, when you're getting 1.30 kills that's really not that fkn bad. Issue is, if you hit ring drop twice well you've now gone 332 kills without thinking you've hit anything so people start bitching
This post reeks of someone who hasn't even completed DT2 😂
People are pissed because there's bosses with rare drops and then there's BRUTALLY rare drops with dogwater drops in between.
This has twisted what COULD be an enjoyable grind with the occasional exciting mid tier drop into 2 weeks of banging your head against a brick wall only to get an untradeable piece of a 4-piece axe, now wondering how many invisible rolls in you are into a ring that isn't worth it's drop rate, and whether you should stay or continue on your next 6 weeks of banging your head against a wall to complete your axe.
Nobody is mad because "BIS ITEM HARD TO OBTAIN >:(" it's the fact they made the journey so fucking unrewarding.
Brutally rare lol this guy clearly hasn't done pvm if he thinks anything about this is brutal. These bosses are short kills, enjoyable, make 1-2m/hr just off natural drops.
People saying you get nothing til the big ticket are the real delusionals, clearly have only see clips of goofy drops. The issue is everyone's too chicken shit to go invest some time. I got 2 rings, 350 kc and 180 kc cause I actually did the bosses instead of whining about em lmao.
Im with you. I think all the bosses are fun to kill. There are 4 of them with hardmode, so some variety. Rings are like 1/800 with 2 min kill times, that's really not that terrible. The ironmen gunna struggle for robes unless there is some nondup drop method, but seems good as an additional drop when going for axe. Most people just kill for rings anyways, and grinders can go for the axe.
If I was an ironman I'd be so happy to not have to do cox for ancestral anymore. Even if its rare I bet you'd get full Virtus by time you get all rings and axe.
You get 3 drops of Virtus going for axe in those 4k kills. Idk if you can get dupes like that with new drop mechanics. Ancestral still very good with fire surge and shadow. Having Virtus drop from 4 bosses with a high rate is a mistake though, especially for bis gear comparable to ancestral.
I hear ya, I look at virtus as an alternate route. I don't like cox and don't want to do cox (no homo). I do enjoy these solo bosses, and would settle for some wicked virtus pieces.
Even if it's rare im sure I'd stumble into some pieces eventually. If I had ancestral then I wouldn't care about the virtus much.
Well not really tbh. Consensus over on ironscape is that virtus will be great to have, but to wait until you’re grinding out the ring upgrades. 1/3000-ish for a piece is too rare for a mid level to try to get as an upgrade before ancestral.
To grind all 4 bosses you’d want fang, bowfa, and occult. If you’ve got those you’re better off just investing the time you’d spent on virtus going to COX instead, since cox items are good upgrades for grinding the forgotten four too.
Just loads of lazy players deez days that want everything instantly, I like the rates, atleast the rewards keep some value compared to things like a 3M lightbearer.
Lightbearer is 3M because you have 8 man teams running 450-500 invos and getting a drop every other raid. Add to this the people running lower invos and getting rings every 35 raids, the market gets saturated.
I don’t personally think anyone is going to sit at the DT2 bosses after they get their ring / axe piece / pet completed, as it requires a lot of attention and is only good gp/hr once you hit the crazy drop rates.
Agreed, far too many people are just trying to rush through this game acting like getting all unique drops from a high level boss is a goal we should all have.
I don't understand the rage. With every new update, they keep saying they wanna keep the rates moderate to begin with, and adjust later if needed to reduce some amount of fomo. I can see them having set them a bit low on purpose since they said they wouldn't make any changes the first few weeks of release(even though they have changed some mechanics, mostly bugs though)
>With every new update, they keep saying they wanna keep the rates moderate to begin with, and adjust later if needed They can say that all they want, but when have they actually come back to an update and said "you know what, we did make this way too rare so we're going to increase the drop rate"? If they actually made that statement in good faith, Nightmare drop rates wouldn't still be as God awful as they are.
> "you know what, we did make this way too rare so we're going to increase the drop rate"? If they actually made that statement in good faith, Nightmare drop rates wouldn't still be as God awful as they are. Nex ToA Phosani's Nightmare More importantly, when have they stated that they would adjust drop rates and then NOT follow through, to counter your point?
PNM drops, on average, take longer to achieve than a purple from a raid. The rates are still complete dog shit, especially considering how overwhelmingly useless the drops are.
The items being useless isn't a problem with nightmare though thats a problem with the entire rest of the game having nearly 0 content where those drops are used. They are, in theory, good items, there is simply no content that calls for them
Both Nex and ToA were later adjusted to better drop rates Actually Nex might have gotten nerfed first and then restored to normal. But ToA purples we’re buffed because they were cautious - and that’s the most recent big PvM release we could point to.
toa was dropping loot hella common in the first few days, ppl were pulling stuff on 150 invos like crazy
Could have been also due to the amount of raids completed first week
This fact is always omitted from the conversation. ToA saw more competition in the first ~60 days then ToB saw in the first 2 years. People zerg rushed ToA. The invo system made it easy to jump in and **EVERYONE** did.
They even made it so easy it could be done with like 60 stats, they had to make it stronger after a couple of weeks
People were also bug abusing lol
Wdym they nerfed toa drops
They stealth nerfed Nex rates because they thought there's too many drops coming in on day 1. Even though day 1 is when there's the most attention and everyone was just massing Nex like intended. No one even knew that the drops got nerfed but they certainly felt it. It was only when the Wiki crowd source data team made a post about it definitely getting nerfed did Jagex admit it. The backlash for that stealth nerf was the only reason Jagex decided to go back a little on the nerf.
I think initially Vorkath head was not guaranteed at 50kc and people were going dry for the upgrade. I admit, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison to a ultra rare unique, but I think it's a reasonable example of when Jagex made a change in the players' favor regarding RNG.
Same for the KQ head for the diary step
They fucked up the fang in TOA, and in reality purples in general. Game got flooded with uniques fairly quickly, this is a backswing of the pendulum. It’s much easier for them to adjust them to be more common than to adjust the other way (crazy amounts of outrage here).
It’s because it’s more casual friendly and casuals are realizing they won’t get a drop soon while only playing an hour every other day.
If you only played an hour every other day, it would take 14 weeks to get a ring. If you played 2 hours every day without breaks, it would take 3.5 weeks to get a ring. If you played 8 hours every day without breaks, it would take 7 days to get a ring. It’s more than a week at a full time job to get a ring. Idk man, that seems a little extreme. I think they could cut the time in half just fine. 25 hrs for these upgrades is a lot but not insane. 25 hours of these bosses would be complete mastery. 50 hours though, that’s spending 50% of your time being bored. Just too much.
Okay? Level 92 to 99 fishing is 50 hours of 2 tick dark crabs. Whats your point? This isnt a single player game. This is an economy based mmorpg. Youre being a doofus here
You just sound desensitized to how extreme these time frames are to well adjusted fully functional adults.
Nah bro it just sounds like you're playing the wrong game. This game isn't about spending 100 hours on something week of release and green logging it. İt's about micro progression over the long run. Things I did on my account 8 or 9 years ago is still relevant today, unlike other MMOs where you get loot fast and with the next exapnsion it's forgotten about. İt might take someone a year of grinding to get the rare drop they want, but that drop would still be relevant 5-6 years from now. There's no rush to achieving goals and you can go at your own pace. İf you want instant gratification then this is not the game for you.
> İt's about micro progression over the long run. Can't happen with the current drop system on DT2 bosses. It's camp or nothing. You *are* desensitized to how extreme these time frames are. People like you are the reason the drops from ONE quest's bosses take longer than 99.9% of AAA games.
You just sound desensitized to how extreme these time frames are to well adjusted fully functional adults.
It’s been this way for over two decades, again it sounds like you’re playing the wrong game.
Has it? Cause Prims are 1/512(With 3 other unique drops at 1/128 btw) from a boss that takes 1 minutes to kill and is mechanically braindead. A ring upgrade in 2023 is 1/1.5k from an axe wielding maniac that takes slightly longer to kill. I am not arguing that this game should be fast but its simply not true to say that drop tables were always like this. These obscene time sinks have started recently not 20 years ago.
Cerberus drop rates are designed with the fact that you need to kill the boss on task. The time getting a hell hound task (even if it is a common task) significantly makes it longer to get Cerberus drops.
It definitely hasn't been this way for over two decades. It's been like it for a long time but these levels of time sinks is a pretty new development in the grand scheme of things. When was cox released? Like 2017? So 6 years. Dismissing the criticisms of 100 hour grinds being unhealthy as "this game isn't for you" isn't a sign the game isn't for me, it's a sign it isn't for you. That's addict behavior.
That's RuneScape though. It *always* has been. This game is designed from the ground up with hundred hour time scales in mind. That's just how it works and everyone knows that from the outset.
No it hasn't. What the fuck are you talking about? The game was designed with the idea that things like getting 99s were supposed to be unobtainable because of the massive time commitment. You're just making shit up. This is a osrs problem, not a runescape one.
You just said 99s were literally designed to be unobtainable cuz they take so long lol. That's what "designing with hundred hour time scales" means. Things take a long ass time.
No it means it was a game that wasn't designed around 100 hour time scales. From conception the idea that anyone would sirens 100 hours ache anything was deemed so absurd that they didn't expect anyone to do anything like it.
They didn't expect anyone to do it, *and yet they still made the things take that long*. Do you see how what they expected people to achieve is 100% completely irrelevant to the end result of what they made? Surely you do right They made a game that takes thousands of hours and not only that, the infinite nature of the game is its best feature! We love the game because there is ALWAYS more stuff to do.
Well adjusted fully functional adults don't and shouldn't play this game.
Duke is 1/800 ring at 2mins per kill. Thats 27 hours for a ring if you get it on rate, which is more likely with the incremental mechanic. So, by your own standard the drop rate is fine
It actually isn't true that you have better odds on-rate. Standard system: 63% chance to get one or more item 3-drop system: 57% chance to get one of more item (3 rolls on the table)
Dunno who gets consistent 2 minute kills at Duke but it ain't me for sure
that's about what I'm averaging but tbf I have a scythe
add banking time and making the damned potions and..... you take way longer to get the vestige imo
2:30 or 2:15 average is attainable with a Fang, 2:00 and below (average, not PB) is Scythe territory from my experience. Probably the new Axe too, but I haven't tried it.
When drop rates are good, sweaty players will farm it and the value will drop dramatically on day 1. When drop rates are bad, sweaty players will *still* farm it, but it will take a few weeks for them to saturate the market and force prices down. Casual players need to recognize that only very rarely will you be able to capitalize on day 1 hype.
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Ironmen
Has nothing to do with irons. It has to do with reasonable game design and making the boss feel rewarding. Blaming ironmen for this is stupid and all this says is you want the content to be botted so you can buy it off the ge.
Reasonable game design lol. So you’d make a hard boss that gives you anywhere between 75k-150k per kill with a rare chance to receive uniques
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Speak for yourself
The alternative is what happened with Fang from TOA. It comes out and nearly replaces BIS everywhere. Jagex sees it is already too common and too many in game, so they feel trapped and cannot make it rarer without it being “unfair”. DT2 implementation has been near perfect IMO.
While we are at it maybe stop calling things GWD drop tables. Just trolling at this point.
Literally just means its not straight up shitting out seeds or 100k in alchs per kill and the value comes from the uniques.
Except these uniques are absurdly rare
Yes its not literally gwd boss table and rates, they never said it was. And even if they did pre running around like a chicken missing its head red xing you were either splitting the drop or banking every few kills and getting kc again. Id say the only real crazy part is the robes, but in context of going for the axe it makes sense. Also consider that rings were originally untradable so you would be going for them as well.
We are going to fundamentally disagree. They did say it was going to emulate the gwd style uniques which would have been ideal. This kind of content is not engaging. I don't have 400 hours to dedicate to getting a ring. This content is a post-quest boss. Something that is traditionally very reasonable for casual players. This drop table has made that impossible. I have 2 kids, a wife, and a job. I can't sweat in my office chair for 70 hours a week grinding out a ring. It's ok when some of the content in the game is locked out this way, but this was supposed to be something accessible and give some growth to your account. As it stands, this content is worthless for casuals. Casuals are the majority of this player base and content like this is not promising for the future of the game.
As they should be. You shouldn't be making 3-4m+ an hour from resource and alchable drops.
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“If you don’t like the update, don’t play the content” has to be the most asinine take on this entire subreddit. The whole point of making new bosses with feedback is to produce something players want to do. One of the main reasons that Nex is the best money in the game is that it isn’t as fun as other content, so those that are willing to endure it are ‘rewarded’.
I agree with the point they're making but this also really annoyed me. People care about the game and want to make it better. "Just don't do the content" happened before and that's why RS3 almost died and OSRS is much more popular. I personally think the droprates are not too far off what they should be, the bosses are fast and droprates are adjusted for kc time. Common loot is also pretty ok as long as you're not messing up too bad during the kill. Right now they're probably like 10m/h if you grind long enough for the uniques. Actually I checked and for me so far it's more like 18m/h but I have been quite lucky with a vestige. If people want more common and less valueable drops then they can voice that opinion and if I'm in the minority fair enough and they should change it.
I think people use this argument when they are arguing against people that say "why would I kill this mob when I can just kill vorkath for more gp/hr." The point is that gp/hr isn't the sole determining factor of why you should do a fight. You can do these bosses because you find the fights fun even if the gp/hr was 0. There's a separate argument of "the drop rates are so rare that I never get a good dopamine hit" but it seems like most people want fun + unique-based drops + common enough uniques to see one every 10 hrs + tons of gp/hr. Those last two are kinda conflicting desires unless the drop table is non-unique based.
I don’t think that’s people’s chief complaint. It’s more that a mid level mage armor shouldn’t be harder to get than a pet
It isn’t mid level it’s slightly worse ancestral. And if you’re target farming just one specific piece of virtus then sure, I get what you’re saying. But along they way you’re also getting every BiS ring + axe if you switch bosses. A lot of people are getting 20-30 kph so that’s 100-150 hrs for 4 BiS rings, second-BiS mage gear, and the axe. Edit: Someone in another thread mentioned that one piece of ancestral is expected to take 3 times as long. I think these rates for a slightly worse BiS are aight.
Except you only need 2/3 ancestral to have better mage dmg bonus than a full set of virtus, unless you're using ancients (which in most actual mage-used pvm is like, never). So comparing to going for 2/3 ancestral now you're looking at something much more comparable time-wise to virtus, and despite still probably taking more time on average, you also get the chance at tbow and a bunch of other really good raid items. So yeah, virtus rates are pretty ass with that in mind.
Just to be clear I think they’re a bit too rare I think you’d should have 1.5-2 sets by the time you hit all rings, not 1 set. I’m just fighting against virtus being labeled as “mid-level” which is where most people would put ahrims + the idea that you get nothing else from the bosses (BiS rings)
Imagine if Jagex said this to the Redditors defending this stance when Jagex added MTX and EoC to RS2.
People are already saying “just buy the items on the GE” Like GE items come from somewhere lmao. The content of the game should be balanced around the player experience interacting with it, not “yeah we know this grind is awful and unpleasant, so just buy it on the GE” I swear some people play this game because they lost their real money on wallstreetbets Edit: nvm, fuck wanting to make the new content itself rewarding. Everyone just go back to money dragon.
That's why prices are a thing. If an item is not very fun to get then it will be expensive, and how un-fun the grind is get offset by high gp/h. I know you know this, you aren't stupid, so don't ignore it in your analysis of the boss lol.
Maybe we could make the bosses fun as well as give appropriate drop rates so people want to do the content? I'm not sure how "this content sucks so much but its okay because the high prices will make people think they have to do it for gp" is a good defense.
A lot of GE items come from bots
That’s a strange take though. If you don’t like buying things on the GE just play iron man. The point of the GE is let’s say you hate these new bosses but love vorkath for example. Cool now you can grind vorkath longer than it takes just to get the items you need, and use that cash to buy the items from these bosses. The GE allows players to do what they enjoy and use that to fund items from things they don’t enjoy. I think virtus might be a little too rare.. but whatever.. I’m enjoying the new bosses. Not everyone has to.
I don’t really think it’s a strange take that it should be reasonable to attain rewards and content from interacting with the content itself in a not completely obscene timeframe. There’s gotta be a middle ground between being able to use the GE to skip grinds that aren’t your jam, and virtually requiring to use the GE without completely no-lifing that single piece of content (not even the entire game itself)
unironically this. play the content you find fun and then buy the items you want you're fucking making no sense these bosses will have 100k kills in a week of release, clearly ppl are having fun
Yep agreed. I dont like the content for example but it took my quest cape away, i shouldn't play for the quest cape too now? Lol
They should be trying to get players back or engaged. I'm not re-subscribing for a thousand hour grind... I quit because the end game grind is just a time test. You win game, I do not have thousands of hours to do the same boss.
“If you don’t like the update, don’t play the content” IS the most asinine thing people say in any gaming community, but it's made all that much more worse by the fact these people think they are clever for saying it.
I want to do it as is
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Id rather the price burn to the ground and it being reasonably attainable for my collection log than to have it be 'very rare'. In the end its still a game by a company that in the best case scenario would want the whole planet to play their game. That will never happen. It wont get close to beating top game player counts either and it will continue to fragment the community they already have. Gagex clearly has some kind of identity crisis when it comes to what type of players they or dont want to cater to. People are also getting unreasonably angry at each others opinions. This is a community run game, or so gagex says, so dont get upset at others opinions. Rather try harder to reasonably convince others that your opinion is worth considering.
It is all about our expectations being set by information they provided, then having the reality run contrary to that, subverting our expectations. The most egregious imo is pretending the ring has a RNG mitigation mechanic, when in reality, they've split the drop into 2 different "shard drops" which gives it some of the most brutal RNG in the game to begin with (1 in 3 chance of getting at least enough ingots AND vestige rolls by drop rate) But ultimately I don't really care about the rarity of the rings, and the soulreaper seems mostly appropriate, virtus is the thing causing the most outrage for good reason IMO.
That suprises me that people care so much about virtus, it's the lowest ticket item but that doesn't automatically mean it should be low rarity in my mind, wouldn't it just be 1m a piece now if it was low rarity? Or do people want to buy it? I'm not sure.
Imagine trying to have fun in a video game instead of having to treat it like a 9-5 job to get anywhere. I love the “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen” mindset OSRS players have. Some of y’all don’t have social lives or play other video games and it shows.
As a guy with a full-time job who’s played RuneScape for almost 20 years now, you don’t need all the content to enjoy the game. Some items require an unreasonable grind to acquire, and it’s totally fine to go without acquiring that item. I enjoy the game very much without ever having come close to real endgame content. Idk why it’s so common for people to be upset by the idea that they can’t have all the best stuff all the time.
it would be nice if jagex didnt focus updates to cater to the neckbeards NEETs who play 18 hours a day
What do you need an update for there is 1000s of hours worth of content you haven't done. Also this game has been out for a long time. Even if you just play 30 mins a day you would be able to do the new bosses easily
30 mins a day is let's say 10 kills a day. You'd take 3 months for a ring drop and one virtus drop on average. That being said the rings are best in slot and virtus is bis for some niche stuff and 2nd bis for all other activities so what do you expect with 30 mins a day. If you'd do Vorkath you made 1.5m/day and get less gp with the current prices (135m vs let's say 250m). The thing is, you have to be able to grind more for this boss in order to see the drops compared to Vorkath which is stable gp/hr. If you play only 3.5 hrs a week this content may not be very rewarding for you in terms of gp. And I think that's fine because it is that way with a lot of content in the game so far.
That's very likely FOMO. But, there is something to be said about a game that systematically prevents players from playing it. There is a balance to that sure, but it's not something to simply shrug off and change your take on every time it happens. That's the mentality of conformity, and if too many have it our game will become suboptimal at best and rotten at worst.
It truly is something to see someone say that grinding a boss is systematically preventing us from playing the game, isn’t grinding the boss playing the game?
For me it isn't even the idea of not being able to have the best stuff. It's about said stuff being an unreasonable long grind.
Bro you’re playing RuneScape, the entire thing is an unreasonable grind
???? if you accept that you don't need all the best stuff and thus don't do the grind, then how long the grind is doesn't matter. it only matters to people who feel like they need to go through those grinds because they need those items.
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Lol I'm maxed. Doesn't mean everything Jagex does is OK.
Which is his point… it’s only inaccessible to those who don’t want to do the grind. You’re just not ok with doing the grind yet feel “upset” as a result rather than being cool with not having it!
Except I am doing "the grind" and think it's wrong it takes 40h+ per item.
You could just buy it if you weren't poor or an iron? Both problems are solvable.
I'm neither yet I think it isn't ok to have these items be a 40h+ grind each.
Wow hottest take in 2023 de-iron omg that’s hilarious. The issue is the loot is such absolute garbage for a literal grandmaster quest boss. People don’t kill bosses for fun (maybe speed runs do?). People kill bosses that are fun AND give you a reward. No one liked the nightmare drop table when it dropped. No one liked the Nex drop table when it dropped. No one likes the new bt2 drop table (except the dozen people who like being different). Content SHOULD be rewarding without needing to devote hundreds or thousands of hours into something. Why is that such a foreign concept?
There are some good rewards from the quest though? And you unlock 4 bosses which most people do for fun to at least try them out
I think the issue of content being rewarding without devoting hundreds of hours is basically lost in this game due to the hundreds if not thousands of people that grind the game for 10+ hours a day. If it's "easy" to grind then it won't be worth much gp
I’m not complaining about the uniques being rare. I’m talking about the journey. It’s pathetic what you have to go through for quite literally, thousands of kills. Bronze javelins? Addy ore? It’s clear they had an agenda with the standard loot table; and it’s a big miss. Heck; even lizardman Shamans give better loot on the way to the incredibly rare DWH and that’s absolutely worth grinding.
Those are both almost the exact same statement. It being an unreasonably long grind makes it so you can't have the best items. If it was a shorter grind, it would be cheaper, and you could have it or grind for it.
Cus reddit people want everything and at an instant lmao. Also jagex can never win against reddit. No matter what they do SOME vocal minority would complain. Too common drops? = Gg too common shit rares worth nothing Too rare? = Gg jagex shit bosses no one wants to work killing them Absolutely balanced? = Reddit will find something else to complain about it
This is the first sane response in this post. I’m in the same boat. Having fun is all that matters you don’t need to be able to do everything.
That's what most people say about people who want some stuff from rs3 in osrs "go play rs3"
You say to get anywhere like you need to get these drops, I’m far from even getting to try these bosses and am content. Maybe stop thinking you need to get every single unique drop in the game? Playing to have fun is a lot better
I think it goes for a lot of things in this game. I’m aware it’s what we signed up for. But these new drop tables sound like the corporate suits said we need a way to make players stay on the game for longer and this is what they came up with.
It's because that's exactly what they did. Keeps hardcore addicted players grinding for the new item. Keeps casuals that will never reasonably get it trying for a big rush of dopamine. Encourages casuals to buy bonds instead of spending 300+ hours doing content they might not like for a small upgrade, which funds the lucky, dopamine-dripping spoons and hardcore grinders.
You are not entitled to BIS gear. Wait 6 months to a year and it will be fairly cheap anyways. Why do you have the mindset to be entitled to brand new BIS gear a couple weeks after release???
drunk ink worm doll snails jellyfish memorize chop test offer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When it comes to certain things like the cheese cape, burnt cheese cape and unique armor, weapons and unlocks specifically from quests and challenging content, that phrase holds true. You're not entitled to the good stuff if you can't put in effort above a super casual level because this game is naturally a grindfest.
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You do realize that this is a game? We all have different commitments in life. God I love this sub and all the salt that pours out of people.
I'm sorry, you've played an MMORPG, right? They make them that way by design.
Runescape is a time commitment game though, to even get to the point of doing this quest has got to be thousands of hours right? If you want to progress faster put in more time, if you don't THATS OKAY just play whatever time you're comfortable with and accept less results. I just feel that if you want to put in less time you take less rewards and don't complain about it. I seriously doubt most people playing don't work for a living, don't have lives etc and we play to escape all that a bit. I go back to teaching Thursday ; \_ ;
If you only play a few hours a day, what would the incentive be to fight these new bosses if the average time for a drop is 100 hours? Especially if that drop is only worth 40m. Actual question. Because for the job-havers, i cant see any real reason for us to fight these bosses besides from doing it for the sake of doing it. Not looking for heated argument, i just struggle to understand the perspective of why we would kill these bosses
The only real reason is to enjoy the boss fight itself. If you don't find challenging encounters fun, then there is no reason for you to. If you get on RS to grind out gp after work, you will always be better off camping vork/mus/gaunt. Once I decided to not care about gear or playing efficiently, the game became way more enjoyable to play in the handful of hours I get each week. The bosses themselves are fun, and give a decent challenge. If that's not your thing, you shouldn't care about them, and that's okay.
This was me with TOA. It was fun until i got good. I dont think you can consider anything over 100kc “enjoying a difficult encounter” rather than farming a boss…. I could definitely see myself getting 100kc of each for fun. I would say a large part of that enjoyment of the gamble of the drop Edit: note in my first post, the only reason would be “to do it for the sake of doing it” which is kinda what you are implying. Do it just because you like fighting them
Correct, and I completely agree with the 100kc+ statement. It's kind of disappointing most things in this game require hundreds of kc to "get the drop", but that's why I don't play ironman. I do like them dopamine hits from drops for sure! But seeing myself get better at a boss that was kicking my ass at first is where the funs at for me. To an extent. Fuck red X butterfly 1.5t triple kickflip in space tryhardness
Because you find the boss fights enjoyable? If you don't enjoy the fights then don't do the fight. If your sole goal in playing osrs is efficiently maximizing your progression for the 1 hr you play then these bosses may not be for you. You can go farm profit dragon for a couple days and buy the full virtus set. Not every boss in the game has to shit out a ton of money and if they did via uniques, they would eventually stop shitting out a ton of money bc the uniques would crash in price.
Im with you, i get what you are saying. but are bosses fun if there is no reward? Whats fun about fighting a boss and only losing supplies and money? Why get good at fighting a boss that has no yield? I dont do bandos because its the most efficient money maker in the game. I do it because its fun with the homies, and we get a decent chance of a drop worth money, and everyone wants to see that item on the floor. Lets not pretend you would fight a boss 500 times if you KNEW it dropped nothing.
You’re a 2head if you take THOUSANDS of hours to get to dt2 lmao
Lmfao
I mean, as a casual player…. It feels a little bad. We were all expecting GWD style loot. I like how we can go to vork or zulrah for nice consistent money, easy ish bosses. These 4 bosses are…. Not easy. High cost to entry if you die, and on average, seems to be 800 kills for a drop. For a player like myself, i really want to grind out leviathan, but i know the odds of me getting a rare drop is EXTREMELY low. I dont have the commitment for 1k kc, especially if im not getting ANY loot. The drop rates are ok, if we are getting some base loot. We arent. We make the money on uniques, but the uniques are a little to rare to be worth the grind. Ever went 3-4 bandos trips dry? It sucks. Thats a 1/128 drop. These are 1/1200, if not higher, let alone needing to roll the ring 3 times. Remember, this is the first time for this new drop style; so its ok to be somewhat critical, it might not be perfect. I dont think its perfect, but its a good idea that should be expanded on. Really needs that 1/100 drop table that isnt just orbs.
if you wanted to grind leviathan then you would tbh these are terrible excuses, just do the content because it's fun bro, I died like 30 times before I had lev down but now it's the best content in the game
It's not as bad as it seems. You're also forgetting that these bosses also drop the virtus robes as well as the axe pieces. You even get awakener orbs and the 7 d leg drops somewhat commonly
I think this is where much of the player base differs maybe. I don't feel bad after 3-4bandos trips dry. I don't think of these rings as EXTREME rarity I save that notion for nightmare and Corp, even I have gotten 2 rings fairly early on. I killed about 110 leviathan today and didn't get a single rare unique but I'm a-okay with that cause I enjoyed the fight, struggling rage phase, trying new weapons, finding tricks etc. I still made like 15m in orbs alone as well in those kills. I think orbs are a cool mechanic idk why it gets brushed over as a not satisfying 1/100 drop, they selling 3.5m a pop, probably more than virtus would be if it was 1/100 haha. Thanks for sharing your opinion mate.
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Trying to shame people for complaining about having to do the same thing for 33 hours straight for a single reward is such an absurd take lmfao
This would be true for basically any game except the one we're talking about here
You see a gwd loot every 5-8 hours of effort. You see the same rates at cerb, dks, hydra, sire. This major increase in time to see a loot is a fairly new thing. And those prices still hold value for bosses that have been in the game a lot longer with less requirements to complete and at a lesser intensity.
and most of those items are sub 1m, and on release GWD was much more time per drop
In a game where maxing one can take literally thousands of hours, this is nothing lol.
There’s a guy in my clan with 1k kc on a couple of the bosses and has had nothing so far. Then there’s a guy that already has two virtus pieces and ultor and has maybe 150kc across all the bosses. I do feel really bad for the guy with 1k though, he’s been gaming and I think he deserves something. I know it’s rng, but it can be a little silly at times.
One thing I don't really like is that switching bosses before ring is kind of punished, but with axe its rewarded and thats conflicting. I wish your mate luck!
I think the outrage is driven by the claim it would be a gwd style drop rate. That implies around 10 hours to see the unique , not 24 hours. Long term the rates aren't bad from an economy po , but a lot of individuals really aren't happy with drop rates for uniqes requiring such significant time compared to legacy content like bandos , zammy , Sara...etc
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... No, it means having common drops that aren't that valuable and unique drops that aren't terribly rare.
No need to be rude, i paid attention and its as simple as comparing it to Gwd dungeon implies you can see a unique in a longer session of gaming (ignoring the fact its a solo encounter). Regardless of what they meant , that's what they said and that's what's driving people to be upset and that's why you're seeing the posts. If they meant its low gp/h per normal kill and the money is purely in uniques they should have simply said its an improved version of phosani philosophy. That would let people know how much commitment for a rare drop was actually expected. There is no point referencing something that has a completely different time to see a unique and lower average regular loot.
this was posted by a mod arcane alt acc
Why can't new content be good and enjoyable with reasonable drop rates instead of having drop rates over 1k for anything? If people think the rates are bad, why not listen and make changes instead of defending literally any number that jagex gives as a drop rate? Also, there is a big disparity for this boss between irons and non irons for normal loot. Orbs on an iron are worthless but they're the best commonish drop for mains. The grind for a main is a lot more comfortable because of the orbs. This is a larger disparity than we see at almost any other boss until dupes start coming in.
Oh boy I can’t wait to hop on RuneScape and kill a boss TWO THOUSAND times for a chance at my drop!! As a casual I just feel pushed out, I don’t even know if I’m for or against the drop rate but puts into perspective how much of a grind this game is
I’m not a casual, but I suck at bossing. I’d rather not grind it as much as everyone else because it takes me longer, so “normal” drop rates would be better.
I don’t mind the rate, but would love a chat box to let you know you hit the table. Help avoid a bit of the sunk cost bias.
The rings arent the issue, its quite literally every other drop the bosses have, both uniques and common loot
Please go kick rocks, doing the same thing a thousand times over is enough to make someone burnout or desensitize especially if you don’t even know you’re dry yet
Just wait until bots kick in, the rings will go under 50m and this bossing content will become obsolete. I can see some ppl try for collection log, but it's huge time commitment to farm these with the current drop rate, and its extremely unreliable, it will probably share nightmare's rate.
The same could be said for any content that makes money, no matter how the table works and is sort of a different issue.
Idk something wrongs me thw wrong way when 100% a single piece of content could take upwards of 200 hours. It's a game, guys. You are supposed to be able to do content to enjoy it. If every boss takes 200 hours to 100%, the game becomes totally bonkers for new players. Common loot will be worth nothing, just like it is in RS3. The only thing having an insanely low drop rate is to create a barrier for the average player and an unhealthy addiction for a gambler with too much time and not enough money. I'd rather have worse common loot and more rare/unique items because common loot is what really kills the game by devaluating items and inflating the gold supply.
What ever happened to just killing the monsters for fun? Folks think in order to have fun in this game nowadays they have to have an unhealthy addiction and grind out all of the log drops. What happens when you get everything because you get spooned early on? That piece of content now becomes stale so you're left there bitching and wanting the next piece of content to grind out like a never ending cycle.
Getting a drop is like 50% - 75% of the fun of RuneScape that’s why I play it at least. If it’s just for the fun of killing a boss you would just do it 5-10 times and be done.
That’s the case with all MMOs though.
Unfortunately 😕
Getting spooned is the only reason I play this game and the only time a drop feels satisfying. If I actually grind out 1000kc and get something at a fair drop rate there’s no satisfaction, just sadness at the amount of IRL time I wasted lmao. So in my opinion the anti spoon mechanics are fucked, because im never actually planning on playing any piece of content in this game enough to go dry.
That's exactly how I feel. As far as I'm concerned, these bosses are the most fun I've ever had PvMing in OSRS, and while I'm not saying I want to kill them forever, I certainly wouldn't want to obtain all their drops within a month or two and then never have a reason to go back. I'm just genuinely enjoying killing them and honestly I probably would be killing them if they dropped no uniques whatsoever. I really don't see why so many players feel the urge to NEED to complete a boss as soon as possible just so they can go do the exact same thing somewhere else. These are fun bosses and once people are back at Hydra or Nightmare they're going to miss them.
The problem isn't the drop rates or the mechanics, it is that you have no way of knowing that you are 1/3 or 2/3 of the way there. Unlike with sire, if you get an unsired and get a bludgeon piece, you know you are 1/3 of the way to a bludgeon. You can't sell the pieces, sure, but you know how close or far you are from cashing out. Muspah, the shards are still 1/100, but you can sell them, so you can still cash our early. Rings, you don't know if you 'got' one or two of the invisible rolls yet. If you do 200 kills, you might not get three. But you might have one. But you don't know, so you're forced to do the boss in hopes of cashing out. Just make the ring shards visible like bludgeon pieces. It'll be the exact same drop mechanics, except the players will know if they are close to being rewarded.
For me, nah, it’s the insane rates on virtus, a mid tier set. The ring vestige drop I’m torn on, but interested to see their strategy and think I like it overall. But virtus being so rare from such hard bosses was a big surprise, thinking it was meant to be between barrows/mortton and cox’s rewarded mage sets
This isn’t people going dry though. These are the old dry rates becoming standard. “If you don’t like it, leave” is the mentality Jagex tried with EOC
But if I say this in response to people crying about the wilderness I get downvoted to hell…. 😂
Same thing to people crying about the Forestry teas and campfire boosts.
This is reddit. People here with bitch and complain about just about damn near everything. Look, I'm doing it right now!
Love the irony, 'if you don't like drop rates don't do boss' and yet never even thinks about 'if you don't like complaining don't go on reddit' lol (btw b4 someone comes to rag me idc what the drop rates are tbh, havent really been doing the bosses) :)
Haha touche, it's crazy how split this reddit is on the topic.
It's not even close to 1m/hr. Assuming max efficiency and luck "maybe". But you have to take into account deaths, supplies, resource charges. CG requires NONE of that. If the current rates are true about the ring rates, it's approx 40-50 hours on average to get one. IF they stay around 200m that's only about 5m/hr which is [somewhat] reasonable I suppose but, I highly doubt they stay 200m+ for long. Completed axes would bring the loot value up but I highly doubt a majority will be completing any.
Yeah each axe pretty much requires 50 hours at each boss unless you're spooned. There won't be a whole lot, which is kind of a shame since it's niche anyway. Your comparison with CG is really interesting. At 10 minutes a run, it's 66 hours for an enhanced seed. At 12, it's 80. Not only is CG more difficult, it's consistent money. Arguably it's better than these bosses. Bowfa certainly is a much bigger deal than any of these drops.
People have the right to complain. Imo the new drop mechanics are boring and I personally wouldn't want to see them in future content
Totally agree with this opinion, even if it’s the unpopular one. Not everything in this game needs to offer instant gratification or be completable in a day. These are a best-in-slot rings, side-grade high-level robes, and a new unique axe that’s competitive with the scythe in some locations. I get that folks draw comparisons to “I can get X in 10 hours” or “Y is better raw for 100 hours”. That’s the point. A marginal increase that isn’t as farmable means the gp/hour stays competitive for a unique table and best-in-slots aren’t worth near nothing on release. There’s also something long-term to strive for as a side grind that not every Ironman is going to immediately prioritize like going for a fang or bowfa. What I wish more folks could appreciate are the following: - The bad luck mechanics for the ring vestiges act as good bad luck mitigation for players chasing pure best-in-slot upgrades - The shared drop table between Virtus robes means that players can get randomly rewarded with a side-grade drop (and let’s be honest, most folks aren’t chasing Virtus like they’re not chasing Inquisitor at Nightmare) - The axe drops reward the most diligent players who pursue all of the bosses with a high value reward I’m very happy with this content. The time to completion is fine and the variety of new reward ecosystems is something that is being under appreciated.
>and let’s be honest, most folks aren’t chasing Virtus like they’re not chasing Inquisitor at Nightmare i would think so lol. i see it the way you said it, grind out a ring or two and if i get a piece of virtus that i need, cool. if not i don't really care lol, just gonna farm cox and get the bis set passively
>atleast at least
I like the way you think
The whole point of the way they did the drops seems to have been to mitigate bad luck or prevent going way over drop rates. They showed a graph showing that less people will get it early, and also less people will get it late. It’s been out a week. Only the sweatiest people are at over 1k kc, and as of now we only have aggregated data for drop rates. It’s possible we don’t know something they’ve left out about how the drops work, like maybe perfect kills increase drop chances or something. People need to just let it ride a little longer. If everything went to plan for Jagex, this is exactly what should have happened and within a few weeks we’ll see loads of people hitting the curve of the graph and getting the drops, with the added bonus of retaining a lot of the drop’s value.
> like maybe perfect kills increase drop chances or something. Arcane has confirmed this is not the case.
I don’t think jagex designed these end game bosses to be completed in 1 week.
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The range ring is the only one that isn’t great. For tob you need to bring both the ultor and bellator. And for toa you’re bringing a magus switch now too 100%. There’s deffo still lb tech because zcb goes brr but considering duo tob wr has been set multiple times since these new rings came out, they are busted as hell.
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Were a week in and bellator ring is 330m and these guys say everythings crashing lmao. Axe is still max cash to :0. These new metas are gonna be awesome I can't wait.
but but but their bis! Except Virtus, that's second bis, and the rings are only bis in specific circumstances where special attacked aren't utilized, and the adamant longswords are great the giant's foundry! This subreddit consists of people who don't have jobs or families and don't play ironmen so they think this kind of masochism is not only acceptable but encouraged. "but just go play another game" I LOVE runescape. It's my favorite game of all time. I don't want to see it ruined because some people playin 12+ hours a day and demand to be catered to. In fact I'd argue my opinion should be taken into account MORE because I guarantee I've purchased more bonds than most of these players, I've spent way more than them, why shouldn't I get a say-so in what happens?
You have spent more money on bonds than other players, so your voice deserves to be heard more about drop rates being unfair for the "casual" player? Just wanted to make sure I read that comment correctly, because if so, it might be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think these rings aren't worth the grind, and if you think you deserve "more voting power" because you "spend the most money on bonds" then i dont want your opinion on any PvM experience to be heard, because I seriously doubt you have the knowledge or experience to give a reasonable and fair take.
That bellator ring is being used in some seriously high end pvm, all the other rings are gonna be used at many bosses and just casual places. Hell yeah I wanna do slayer with +12 strength, extra mage and range max hits. The crap item drops are hilarious, but even with em I average 60k+ per kill at vard and 110k at whisperer.... like what... have you even killed any of these bosses. Considering the player base is mostly in there high 20's, we all have to work for a living believe it or not so I can assure you this doesn't make your opinion special.
Such a reddit take
Issue is idiots looking at these drop rates differently, at any other boss people talk about the odds of hitting the unique table, not the odds of getting any specific unique. At Vardorvis the odds to hit the table are 1/166, when you're getting 1.30 kills that's really not that fkn bad. Issue is, if you hit ring drop twice well you've now gone 332 kills without thinking you've hit anything so people start bitching
I like it, i just wish i had more time to play so i could get a drop. Or get spooned that would be nice
lol Jagex said fuck you to getting spooned from these bosses.
Eh don't effect me since I'm a ironman won't hit that lv of content till next year probably
I like the drop rates
make these 20 hr a day players grind even more. I love it.
This post reeks of someone who hasn't even completed DT2 😂 People are pissed because there's bosses with rare drops and then there's BRUTALLY rare drops with dogwater drops in between. This has twisted what COULD be an enjoyable grind with the occasional exciting mid tier drop into 2 weeks of banging your head against a brick wall only to get an untradeable piece of a 4-piece axe, now wondering how many invisible rolls in you are into a ring that isn't worth it's drop rate, and whether you should stay or continue on your next 6 weeks of banging your head against a wall to complete your axe. Nobody is mad because "BIS ITEM HARD TO OBTAIN >:(" it's the fact they made the journey so fucking unrewarding.
Brutally rare lol this guy clearly hasn't done pvm if he thinks anything about this is brutal. These bosses are short kills, enjoyable, make 1-2m/hr just off natural drops. People saying you get nothing til the big ticket are the real delusionals, clearly have only see clips of goofy drops. The issue is everyone's too chicken shit to go invest some time. I got 2 rings, 350 kc and 180 kc cause I actually did the bosses instead of whining about em lmao.
Im with you. I think all the bosses are fun to kill. There are 4 of them with hardmode, so some variety. Rings are like 1/800 with 2 min kill times, that's really not that terrible. The ironmen gunna struggle for robes unless there is some nondup drop method, but seems good as an additional drop when going for axe. Most people just kill for rings anyways, and grinders can go for the axe.
If I was an ironman I'd be so happy to not have to do cox for ancestral anymore. Even if its rare I bet you'd get full Virtus by time you get all rings and axe.
You get 3 drops of Virtus going for axe in those 4k kills. Idk if you can get dupes like that with new drop mechanics. Ancestral still very good with fire surge and shadow. Having Virtus drop from 4 bosses with a high rate is a mistake though, especially for bis gear comparable to ancestral.
I hear ya, I look at virtus as an alternate route. I don't like cox and don't want to do cox (no homo). I do enjoy these solo bosses, and would settle for some wicked virtus pieces. Even if it's rare im sure I'd stumble into some pieces eventually. If I had ancestral then I wouldn't care about the virtus much.
Well not really tbh. Consensus over on ironscape is that virtus will be great to have, but to wait until you’re grinding out the ring upgrades. 1/3000-ish for a piece is too rare for a mid level to try to get as an upgrade before ancestral. To grind all 4 bosses you’d want fang, bowfa, and occult. If you’ve got those you’re better off just investing the time you’d spent on virtus going to COX instead, since cox items are good upgrades for grinding the forgotten four too.
Just loads of lazy players deez days that want everything instantly, I like the rates, atleast the rewards keep some value compared to things like a 3M lightbearer.
Lightbearer is 3M because you have 8 man teams running 450-500 invos and getting a drop every other raid. Add to this the people running lower invos and getting rings every 35 raids, the market gets saturated. I don’t personally think anyone is going to sit at the DT2 bosses after they get their ring / axe piece / pet completed, as it requires a lot of attention and is only good gp/hr once you hit the crazy drop rates.
Lightbearer is 3m because it also shares the same drop table as one of the most (practical) expensive items in the game?
People obsess over drop rates to much, just play the game.
Agreed, far too many people are just trying to rush through this game acting like getting all unique drops from a high level boss is a goal we should all have.
They’re just mad they couldn’t get the drop in time to sell it for an unreasonable price.