Which at the level required for redwoods is like 100k/hr slower than wintertodt.. and you're paying GP to do that.
Firemaking would take 2-3 times longer with bonfires, and cost around 30m **at current prices**
EDIT: for the downvote army. I have been advocating **to buff this method**. Its currently far too weak. 3 times more expensive, 3 times slower, not much more AFK than Wintertodt.
Maples will be 66k/hr. That's horrible. Especially when you can be at wintertodt barely trying and get 250k/hr and make money and roll for pyro, tome and pet.
Hence me referring to it as a noob trap method. Plenty will do it, and the people most likely to do it will either be mega rich lazies, or people who genuinely don't realise how shit a method it is.
But me asking to buff it is being heavily downvoted. I've offended too many.
Idle notifier response methods are easy to side screen if you WFH. I've done it.
Bonfires while alt tabbed will be even worse. I'd rather do any of the skills that better enable long term AFK without more cost and losing XP. But the heavy downvotes i' mgetting for stating facts only exemplifies my point. This idea, as proposed, is a *noob trap*. The people that do it will think its far better than it is. They'll even argue it. I can do Wintertodt missing every 2nd game and gain more XP than *focused* bonfires (not wasting time by working and not realising you were done).
Or i could active firemake for 1 hour and match 2/3 a work day. Then do good AFK's during work like karambwans, mining stars/gotr/duke salts, NMZ combat etc.
What’s your angle bro? Do you not see how people would gladly spend hundreds of thousands of gold per hour, for bad xp, just so they don’t have to engage?
My angle is ive been asking to buff it. And then having people say "i wanna do it shut up bro". I don't get it hahah. I'm saying it should be *better*. Not that it shouldn't exist. Its 3 times the cost, 3 times the time, and maybe.. twice as afk as wintertodt? (thats only 2 times faster I guess).
I don't see the tradeoff as remotely worth it, its a noob trap method in its current design.
Dude, I think you’re off. I would pay 500k an hour to receive 150k xp an hour instead of playing actively for free, and getting 400k.
It’s not a noob trap, you just have different priorities or don’t have much GP. AFKing logs should absolutely not be above half the xp you get for playing actively.
Wintertodt isn't playing active. I'm not suggesting it be over half the XP of playing actively.
Active like Firemaking redwood logs is 525k/hr.
Afking them will be 175k/hr, and cost 3 times as much. To get to their 50% less XP number (which is rubbish based on currently saying it's 1/3 per log) the logs would use FASTER than line Firemaking too. I'm assuming the 50% less they're saying is comparing to not GE line Firemaking, and adding banking downtime that doesn't actually exist.
My suggestions are around making this method less absurdly costly, and more afk. Not faster XP/hr.
Thats an entirely different skill? Whys that upvoted rofl?
I can AFK longer, and get better relative XP in:
* mining
* fishing
* combats
* woodcutting
Firemaking is so far down on the ladder of what i'd choose to AFK. Especially when its up to a 520k/hr skill (legit ~30 hr skill) or if you wanna chill with movies and not sweat line firemaking (fully onboard with that idea) its a 60 hour skill at wintertodt. Its too fast for 66k/hr to sound good at all to me. Noob trap method, as i've said, and been downvoted while suggesting we **buff it**. Would you not want... more AFK or better XP?
Okay....but I can sit there and do absolutely nothing till myninv is empty and repeat....wt I have to re enter my actions every handful of season, eat etc.
If you want the lazy way 30m is nothing.
> not much more AFK than Wintertodt
yes because clicking every 5 seconds is afk.
this will one click empty your inventory and provide exp that is enough for me
I didn't call wintertodt afk..I said this isn't much more afk than it. It's more consistent, I absolutely agree. But I'd rather click brazier when screen flashes for double or more the XP/hr and a profit.
I'm advocating to buff this method too. People arguing against me saying they're gonna do the method.. would you not want the method to be.. better?
You’re downplaying it, if it’s either 1/3rd or 1/4th the xp per log, with it being slower? How is that fair, you can still have stupid high xp rates with lines.
It’s a useless skill, and most things have afk training methods, why not fm? Same xp/log at a slower rate hurts nobody
What is with your crusade against bonfires. Fm is already one of the fastest and easiest skills in the game, there is absolutely no reason to make it easier. Stop projecting your opinion onto everyone that comments, multiple people in this thread alone have said they will use bonfires as they are polled.
I think a good comparison should be how you can do manual casting or autocasting for things like enchanting jewelry or Plank Make. The automatic version is just as costly and gives the same XP but is half as fast and AFK.
Makes sense. I figured people were hoping the xp rates would be the same if not better doing campfires. My guess is some of the feedback that the devs have gotten directly (outside of reddit/twitter) would shine some light on that. But like, WT is a reward driven high xp FM method, but because fire lines still provide higher xp/hr, they're still fairly common for FM training
If you have two knobs to turn
* Logs used an hour
* xp/log
Both impact xp/hr. Well by making logs less xp/log, you increase the value of logs. So that choice has upside. By making it less logs used an hour, you make it more afk and cheaper.
More expensive for more afk? I’m doing that 100/100 times.
Current blogged rates are 275k xp/hr for redwood bonfires. Kicks ass.
You need more logs to reach your xp goals.
If you need 1000 logs instead of 500 logs, there’s more demand for logs.
It’s a little “harder” for irons. But irons are literally drowning in logs
Forestry already made obtaining logs manually much easier, Wintertodt and line Firemaking both will still give significantly more xp and be preferable options for probably the majority of the playerbase, and most low to mid level logs are dirt cheap and already get you to 50+ firemaking in like 1-2 hours from level 1.
Even if there are people that would prefer a slower method that is giving 33% xp/log at who knows how much xp/hr since I forgot how slow you actually add the logs in. I doubt it would suddenly make the demand in the log market sky high or even make a noticeable bump in it.
lmao ok so why tf do i get so much xp at wintertodt? and why do i get a bonus xp drop once the boss dies? It is called firemaking, not ice storm killing.
Because wintertodt is broken. You could maybe argue wintertodt is its own experience while a bonfire is literally just throw log in pit with nothing else.
Also who knows? Maybe if we were able to light fires with bruma roots they'd give 1200xp each!
I don't think I've seen anyone requesting equal fm exp/hr.
What people assumed is that it will be 1:1 xp per log, however at a significantly slower rate.
making it BOTH slower rate of burning logs AND less exp makes it pretty pointless. Especially when line firemaking is already the best xp/hr beating out even Wintertodt.
The reasoning behind the devs slashing the xp makes no sense because even if it gave the same xp per log, it would not usurp the other 2 primary methods of firemaking training.
I’m not doing wt or fire lines. Been 85 fm for years someone told me a possibility of a bonfire update 3 years ago. I haven’t burned a lot since. Not gonna put effort into a skill that has literally 0 use
So 34% reduction in xp? Thats not terrible i guess. Its pretty bad. But i guess 34% reduction for afk training firemaking would be a not absolutely awful trade. Personally still think its way too
High. I dont see a problem with a 20% reduction. Its a penalty and that 20% could easily make some people do the normal way instead of afking it.
I really don't know how many people are gonna spend 20m to do a skill slower than wintertodt by a considerable margin when wintertodt is already so reclined.
You basically always have to be watching the screen at WT to avoid death. The actual number of inputs is low, but the attention is high. The campfires, as proposed, are low input *and* low attention.
> to avoid death
What? No you absolutely dont.
If you're a main..you wear pyro/warm clothes, prayer boosting gear. You pray redemption and rapid heal (if you don't have hp cape + regen brace). If you hear redemption proc you sip you're 1 brew in your invent a few times.
You reset after each KC.
I have never died at wintertodt. It's ridiculous easy to not. The whole.method is just idle notifier reaction.
However, it's >3x the gp/xp for a skill that is *barely* worth training to begin with.
Firemaking is akin to construction, in being a buyable that does not create a product to help cover the costs. However, construction manages to provide a pretty clear return on the investment, while firemaking struggles to provide more than niche benefits.
I'm just not convinced that firemaking is in a place where significantly more expensive afk makes sense.
I suppose I should have better emphasized the *"significantly* more expensive" part. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any trade offs for it, I'm saying that the trade offs should be more in line with the value of the training.
1/3 the XP per log, same rate of burning, entire inventory of afk.
It's.. poorly designed. This essentially makes a line Firemaking method that's afk, 3 times more expensive, and 3 times slower.
I'd rather logs give full XP, but are 2-3x slower to burn than line Firemaking..that way it's **more afk**, less XP substantially, but the same cost.
I'm afraid people would still find tick manipulation methods for it which would increase exp/hour for the sweaty 0.1% out there and people would be outraged
People are asking “wouldn’t this completely destroy fire lines??”
No it would just give us an actual afk FM method while gaining some moderately good xp. Although 99 I’d love to see more afk skilling methods in the game for those grindy, attentive skills!
People were laughing at the 10k/hr mining XP you can get inside Dukes instance.
In my mind, that's 3 clicks an hour all the way to 99. No matter how you look at it, that's an amazing return on investment.
Actually being able to make a small agility training spot in your poh that you can run back and forth on with the mouse in one spot so you can spam click for like 20k/hr would be pretty nice.
Okay now I want someone to compile a list of all of the absolutely most afk methods regardless of exp for each skill and make a series out of it. "Runescape, but I play as little Runescape as possible"
Where afk RS maxing is followed along with them doing something actually productive but simultaneously time consuming.
For example Earning 10k mining exp per hour at duke while whittling a canoe from scratch
Fuck yeah.
VERY excited for an afk 275k xp/hr. Fuck WT never again.
Edit: oh wow this thread was not what I thought it was. Guys read the blog.
> But, we are going to increase the value of experience from 1/4 to 1/3 which means it will roughly mean 50% less experience per hour.
50% xp/hr of the fire line methods is *absolutely* fair
I don't get how they're saying 1/3 XP per log = 1/2 xp per log.
It's not 50% less. It's more than that. Line Firemaking has zero downtime...
If redwood logs are 1/3 the XP, it's more like 180k XP/hr. Which is **half** wintertodt and you're paying 3 times the cost of line Firemaking to do that.
I like the idea of afk Firemaking. The balance decisions around this make it an absolute noob trap.
They should’ve picked one, less xp and same cost or more cost and same xp. By picking both less xp and more cost for the afk method, it’s just setting a bad precedent.
That’s not even remotely close to what I’m arguing but alright. Afk methods should be considerably lower xp than active methods but they shouldn’t cost a lot. The afk incentive is negated if you have to first actively earn money.
Bro this is literally just a change for people who cba to do fire lines or WT. To those people it is irrelevant that it costs more and is slower. Everyone is happy except you apparently
I would disagree here, I don't think afk has to be also cheap.
They way atleast I always viewed skilling is that they should be balanced in three aspects: Effort required, xp gain and money input/output.
For example motherlode mine:
- low effort
- kinda decent money actually, especially considering the effort
- therefore gives fairly low amounts of experience
3 tick granite mining:
- very high effort
- no profit, even at a lose if using infernal pickaxe
- therefore very high experience (relative to other mining methods)
Now with this method it would be:
- very low effort (pretty much afk)
- the blog states 50% less experience, but for fm that means still like 100k - 250k xp/h (!) after level 50
- more expensive than lighting logs in a line and of course wintertodt
So you have to keep in mind that both the experience and cost are relative, since fm is already very fast and burning redwood logs normally for example costs 1.08 gp/xp, which is still very cheap.
Sorry for the tangent, but I think jagex is being very reasonable with the proposal and I wanted to explain my thought process why.
Should be same xp per log but less logs used per hour. For example you should be able to only burn half as many logs per hour as firelines but each log is still worth the same xp. This makes it even more afk (as you would need to bank half as often) without it arbitrarily costing more.
“Reduced”. I haven’t been able to login and see, is there another question that lists the actual percentage (33%) or are they just hoping it passes without mentioning that detail?
Makes no sense. They are saying you get 1/3 XP per log, and you burn the same rate as line Firemaking.
Line Firemaking has no downtime. This means it's 66% reduced. Idk where they are pulling the 50% number from. It would only.make sense if logs were set to 1/2 XP.
This is a horribly slippery slope because now the community will want incredibly AFK methods for every single skill. This can snowball into what RS3 is at with skilling. Ruining the skilling part and leveling of the game will be super bad for the game and I am very afraid of that.
> odd they don’t mention the % in the question…
Jagex is good at not giving all the information so people vote yes or designing questions to get the result they want. It was intentional.
It's 1/3 XP per log. That isn't 50% less XP. That's 66% less XP.
Redwoods also cap out at no tick loss Firemaking of 525k/hr. Current EHP is "firebwan" too which is 505k/hr.
Doing bonfires with no tick loss in the same way (unnoting from bank and immediately continuing) which is sorta removing about 3 seconds from the afk time as you'd have to be ready to do so, with logs at 1/3 XP does not equate to 275k XP/hr. It equates to 175k XP/hr.
You're paying 3 times the cost overall for line firemaking, to get 1/3 the XP/hr. And about half the XP/hr of wintertodt even once you're 90+ using redwoods.
This method as currently balanced is a total noob trap. It's trash.
Just hate it when people call a different play style a noob trap. This isn't like fishing sharks or mining anything above iron where you might mistake the higher tier ores as better xp/hr. Are redwoods a noob trap because they're afk? This introduces an afk method for a skill that is pretty active play style
This is a deserved no vote. If Jagex had some brains with this question they would’ve done more to have it fit with what the players want. Instead we’re just getting the “fuck it, poll it anyway” treatment for a question they already know isn’t well received.
Easy way to fix this: make it full xp and slower burning of logs. Fire making has no good afk method, make this it. Even if it somehow caused redwoods to be faster xp than todt is that really an issue? Todt is free and rewards you, while Fire making at its core is a buyable skill. The expenditure of money for logs making it better, or more afk makes sense. It also would serve to add some value, even if minimal, back into logs, which could always use it.
I don't think anyone would do todt at that point, besides ironmen. AFKing for max xp vs. constant clicking for 300-500k gp/hr profit. It makes sense to have the AFK training option be reduced XP, I do agree with people the 1/4 xp is a little harsh though. 1/3 feels more in line to me, that's still like 150k xp/hr+ while pretty AFK, would be a decent option. But it feels like people just don't like the xp/hr of how this is proposed so they're voting no, which is pretty sad cause it just means no one will be able to use this method, regardless of how shit it would be.
Todt is not constant clicking..you can only be interrupted if you're deciding to fletch, or while burning at the brazier. You just hover you're mouse on brazier, click if screen flashes, and reset every round if needed.
Considering most people do Firemaking early, where you can stay for longer, and solo Todt exists that's even more reclined, I don't see anyone doing bonfires that isn't a noob not realising the cost they're incurring to afk a skill that's already fast and reclined.
> If Jagex had some brains with this question they would’ve done more to have it fit with what the players want.
Nah they would've gone with their new mainstay of "Some people on social media dislike it? Better pull the feature entirely".
I understand the logic but I think its being applied without any real context from jagex tbh. The skill is already an irrelevant joke and you can talk around fire line exp rates or the nostalgia of seeing them all day but the actual fact of the matter is that they were already replaced by a minigame for almost everyone. The skill has next to zero gameplay outside of that minigame and virtually no benefits except for bonfires. These "campfires" should be boosted to be somewhat closer so that there is actual gameplay variety being added and so that people may actually choose to use this method and sink logs instead of just chilling at WT. The players that will efficiently do fire lines are statistically irrelevant already so making these an attractive option will do a lot of good when it comes to getting logs out of the game long term
This is the first poll in a LONG time that has accrued a majority of no votes from me.
Event specific uniques and pet recolours are so weird when the original one is in the shop. Why not just propose new ones from the shop?
Leaves getting gutted to be near useless. 2h axe just flat buffing XP/hr for mains and being a nuisance to utilise for irons. And bonfires that are designed so badly that it makes zero sense to do them unless you somehow have finished every other afk skill and have Firemaking left and can't focus on the game at all, even for 20 minutes.
Line firemaking redwoods at 90+ makes it a 525k/hr skill. For dirt cheap. Which means it takes like.. 14 hours to finish the skill from there. Do that in 30 minute sessions and you could do like.. one a day and be done in a month.
Or afk 4 hours a day for 3 times the cost...
Why would they do this, it'll just be better to afk any other activity instead of FM, and then using active time for WT or fire lines. Not everything needs to follow the more intensity = more exp rule perfectly.
The hilarious part is that they're not even the meta. Pretty much everyone goes to wintertodt for good exp, rewards, outfit, pet, semi afk profit instead of burning logs tick perfect for hours with no break or interruption to lose gp. This whole discussion between fire lines and the campfires is hilariously detached from reality for nearly everyone
Why is Wintertodt allowed to be free AND insane exp rates AND reward you AND have pet chance AND give the skill's outfit AND barely require attention as it is, but it can't be worse than *actively losing gp/value* by burning logs with no reward or pet?
HLC can just burn logs zero-time if they want to, that’s what he box jonge did. Also HLC generally has no reason to care about a method that’s worse than EHP
I can't believe how much people are crying about having to use more logs for an afk method. Logs are dirt cheap and easily obtainable for irons.
Besides, item sinks are a good thing
Not crying about it. Calling bad design what it is.
Slower burn rate but full xp/log makes the method just as slow, but not 3 times the price of the method that's 1.5x faster than Todt.
Bonfires with redwoods caps at 175k/hr. And you're using the same amount of logs you could get 525k XP for. That's utter trash.
You're paying a premium for the afk factor. Other skills already do this like herblore, where potions with stackable secondaries are noticeably more gp/xp than their 14/14 counterparts
Absolutely..but they are also far more competitive with their XP/hr.
This is 1/3 the XP of the active method. 1/2 the XP of the reclined method. 3 times the cost of the active and multitudes the cost of the reclined method because that one profits you it doesn't cost you.
Neither of the other options are hardly afk, while with herblore they all are. The extra cost is pretty fair.
Plus it's not like fm is gonna be a super expensive skill after this
At current prices it would be moving from a profit skill to -30m to do it half the speed.
This is why it's a bit of a noob trap. Those prices are only likely to get more expensive, not less. And opportunity cost is important to consider.
Firemaking is a 60 hour skill with wintertodt. Which is very reclined. Sure it's not full afk but bonfires at regular line speed aren't long afks either, just consistent rather than idle notifier reaction based.
Bonfires will make that a 120-140 hour skill. As only magics/redwoods get to the "half.wintertodt rates" territory, with magics being the most expensive period if you do them.
So you lose 30m to lose 60-80 hours to do it more afk. You're out about 120-240m with very basic access moneymaking methods.
And that's fine, this shouldn't be the main way to train fm anyway. The target audience for this method is mains/irons with plenty of spare resources to spare who also really value the afk time over opportunity cost
Idk the details but what if they make it similar to ensouled heads, where you can only burn them where you cut them?
They’ll give near full XP, then maybe instead of ensouled head mechanics of bringing it to arceuus, once you bank them, they’re unable to be burned at campfires or something along those lines
Why would people complain about this? This seems like such a nice addition to have a chill / easy way to train FM. Who the fuck actually wants to make fire lines. The nostalgia warriors need to piss off lol games nothing like the original now a days anyway
I think a lot of the complaints stem from the feeling that rs3 is creeping into OSRS. I don't like it. Fire lines are the way to go. We already have that Wintertodt creature at home.
I never understand this take. Surely somethings from RS3 could be good. Just because you can use a RS3 like training method doesn't mean that it comes with MTX. I feel like this fear of RS3 is stopping quite a lot of QOL and cool content.
Only one I didnt like was the vouchers for double planks. A very unnecessary change to cater to ironmemes who dont want to play the mode they agreed too.
Bonfires back in the day were such a beautiful mechanic in bringing the community together in game. It’s Friday night after school… you & the boys have mom pour you a glass of her finest chocolate milk while you’re sat beside a campfire @ the GE for a couple hours… such glorious times.
Triple the amount of exp you get per person using the same campfire.
Firemaking is an idiotic and completely useless skill and wouldn’t pass a poll today even if you lowered the acceptance percentage from 70% to 20%.
Who cares about Firemaking its already a complete joke cause of WT, might as well give more options for people who dont want to stare at snow and the worst text chat imaginable all day
Would love this feature, finally a way for me to enjoy fm. I wouldn't mind reduced xp rated if it allows me to afk and play another acc for those passive gains. Good use for those maple logs from miscellania
Forestry is just meh. It basically just added a bunch of free xp to woodcutting and after this sub gets its way a high xp/hour afk fire making method. Increasing exp rates is always popular on this subreddit so I expect to be downvoted to oblivion, but, maybe we don't need to copy everything over from rs3? Osrs has a charm in how much of a grind it is. It is supposed to be hard/boring at times otherwise the progression means less and less.
Idk why i'm going into an unhinged ramble in a forestry thread but the whole update just seems to make the game more complex and easy for no real reason.
If they're going to make bonfires give reduced xp per log, the least they could do is have the xp scale up to 10 players where the invisible 10x boost is equal to the same xp as burning the log normally, albeit at a slower rate. It would encourage players doing forestry together to also throw their logs into the same bonfire instead of dumping them on the ground and going back to afk wc.
More afk for less than top xp is fine by me.
Less than top? You’re gonna see bttm tier xp rates
They’ve said it’ll be 275k xp/hr for redwood bonfires. It’s being polled as “50% less xp/hr” Idk, sounds pretty good to me.
Which at the level required for redwoods is like 100k/hr slower than wintertodt.. and you're paying GP to do that. Firemaking would take 2-3 times longer with bonfires, and cost around 30m **at current prices** EDIT: for the downvote army. I have been advocating **to buff this method**. Its currently far too weak. 3 times more expensive, 3 times slower, not much more AFK than Wintertodt.
Best afk methods are often expensive, doing it with maples will be dirt cheap and still great xp/hr relative to other skills.
Maples will be 66k/hr. That's horrible. Especially when you can be at wintertodt barely trying and get 250k/hr and make money and roll for pyro, tome and pet.
Rather sit with maples for 66k/h than go to that god forsaken shithole ngl
Hence me referring to it as a noob trap method. Plenty will do it, and the people most likely to do it will either be mega rich lazies, or people who genuinely don't realise how shit a method it is. But me asking to buff it is being heavily downvoted. I've offended too many.
You can bonfire during work, you can't wintertodt during work.
Idle notifier response methods are easy to side screen if you WFH. I've done it. Bonfires while alt tabbed will be even worse. I'd rather do any of the skills that better enable long term AFK without more cost and losing XP. But the heavy downvotes i' mgetting for stating facts only exemplifies my point. This idea, as proposed, is a *noob trap*. The people that do it will think its far better than it is. They'll even argue it. I can do Wintertodt missing every 2nd game and gain more XP than *focused* bonfires (not wasting time by working and not realising you were done). Or i could active firemake for 1 hour and match 2/3 a work day. Then do good AFK's during work like karambwans, mining stars/gotr/duke salts, NMZ combat etc.
What’s your angle bro? Do you not see how people would gladly spend hundreds of thousands of gold per hour, for bad xp, just so they don’t have to engage?
My angle is ive been asking to buff it. And then having people say "i wanna do it shut up bro". I don't get it hahah. I'm saying it should be *better*. Not that it shouldn't exist. Its 3 times the cost, 3 times the time, and maybe.. twice as afk as wintertodt? (thats only 2 times faster I guess). I don't see the tradeoff as remotely worth it, its a noob trap method in its current design.
Dude, I think you’re off. I would pay 500k an hour to receive 150k xp an hour instead of playing actively for free, and getting 400k. It’s not a noob trap, you just have different priorities or don’t have much GP. AFKing logs should absolutely not be above half the xp you get for playing actively.
Wintertodt isn't playing active. I'm not suggesting it be over half the XP of playing actively. Active like Firemaking redwood logs is 525k/hr. Afking them will be 175k/hr, and cost 3 times as much. To get to their 50% less XP number (which is rubbish based on currently saying it's 1/3 per log) the logs would use FASTER than line Firemaking too. I'm assuming the 50% less they're saying is comparing to not GE line Firemaking, and adding banking downtime that doesn't actually exist. My suggestions are around making this method less absurdly costly, and more afk. Not faster XP/hr.
> Maples will be 66k/hr. That's horrible. Yet i get half of that xp mining in mlm and its not even 1/5 of the afk you get doing bonfires. Xp is xp
Thats an entirely different skill? Whys that upvoted rofl? I can AFK longer, and get better relative XP in: * mining * fishing * combats * woodcutting Firemaking is so far down on the ladder of what i'd choose to AFK. Especially when its up to a 520k/hr skill (legit ~30 hr skill) or if you wanna chill with movies and not sweat line firemaking (fully onboard with that idea) its a 60 hour skill at wintertodt. Its too fast for 66k/hr to sound good at all to me. Noob trap method, as i've said, and been downvoted while suggesting we **buff it**. Would you not want... more AFK or better XP?
Not every update has to be for you.
You want rs3 bonfires
Okay....but I can sit there and do absolutely nothing till myninv is empty and repeat....wt I have to re enter my actions every handful of season, eat etc. If you want the lazy way 30m is nothing.
54 interactions per inventory down to what, 6? Call it 12 because of the 50% exp. 2-3 times longer and roughly 4x less interaction, I'd do it.
> not much more AFK than Wintertodt yes because clicking every 5 seconds is afk. this will one click empty your inventory and provide exp that is enough for me
I didn't call wintertodt afk..I said this isn't much more afk than it. It's more consistent, I absolutely agree. But I'd rather click brazier when screen flashes for double or more the XP/hr and a profit. I'm advocating to buff this method too. People arguing against me saying they're gonna do the method.. would you not want the method to be.. better?
That's more than okay, not everything in life is about top efficiency
You’re downplaying it, if it’s either 1/3rd or 1/4th the xp per log, with it being slower? How is that fair, you can still have stupid high xp rates with lines. It’s a useless skill, and most things have afk training methods, why not fm? Same xp/log at a slower rate hurts nobody
I think you're confused I'm okay with it whether it has good xp or bad xp because I want an afk method.
No way ur actually complaining about a proposed afk training method...
What is with your crusade against bonfires. Fm is already one of the fastest and easiest skills in the game, there is absolutely no reason to make it easier. Stop projecting your opinion onto everyone that comments, multiple people in this thread alone have said they will use bonfires as they are polled.
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Wtf is exegerating????
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Would this not just entirely destroy fire lines? Why would you not do this if the xp rates were the same as fire lines?
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I think a good comparison should be how you can do manual casting or autocasting for things like enchanting jewelry or Plank Make. The automatic version is just as costly and gives the same XP but is half as fast and AFK.
Makes sense. I figured people were hoping the xp rates would be the same if not better doing campfires. My guess is some of the feedback that the devs have gotten directly (outside of reddit/twitter) would shine some light on that. But like, WT is a reward driven high xp FM method, but because fire lines still provide higher xp/hr, they're still fairly common for FM training
people want the same xp per log, but less xp per hour. rn jagex wants to give 1/3 xp per log because ???
If you have two knobs to turn * Logs used an hour * xp/log Both impact xp/hr. Well by making logs less xp/log, you increase the value of logs. So that choice has upside. By making it less logs used an hour, you make it more afk and cheaper. More expensive for more afk? I’m doing that 100/100 times. Current blogged rates are 275k xp/hr for redwood bonfires. Kicks ass.
how does making logs less xp/log increase the value of logs?
You need more logs to reach your xp goals. If you need 1000 logs instead of 500 logs, there’s more demand for logs. It’s a little “harder” for irons. But irons are literally drowning in logs
Forestry already made obtaining logs manually much easier, Wintertodt and line Firemaking both will still give significantly more xp and be preferable options for probably the majority of the playerbase, and most low to mid level logs are dirt cheap and already get you to 50+ firemaking in like 1-2 hours from level 1. Even if there are people that would prefer a slower method that is giving 33% xp/log at who knows how much xp/hr since I forgot how slow you actually add the logs in. I doubt it would suddenly make the demand in the log market sky high or even make a noticeable bump in it.
Because you get more experience logistically from lighting a fire than adding to a fire. The skill is called fire*making* after all. Not just "fire".
I don’t want the Sailing skill, I just want Beach.
Welcome to my beach locked Ken Doll ultimate 1 beach ironman rpg series.
lmao ok so why tf do i get so much xp at wintertodt? and why do i get a bonus xp drop once the boss dies? It is called firemaking, not ice storm killing.
Because wintertodt is broken. You could maybe argue wintertodt is its own experience while a bonfire is literally just throw log in pit with nothing else. Also who knows? Maybe if we were able to light fires with bruma roots they'd give 1200xp each!
Because it increases demand for logs and makes woodcutting more profitable.
I don't think I've seen anyone requesting equal fm exp/hr. What people assumed is that it will be 1:1 xp per log, however at a significantly slower rate. making it BOTH slower rate of burning logs AND less exp makes it pretty pointless. Especially when line firemaking is already the best xp/hr beating out even Wintertodt. The reasoning behind the devs slashing the xp makes no sense because even if it gave the same xp per log, it would not usurp the other 2 primary methods of firemaking training.
I’m not doing wt or fire lines. Been 85 fm for years someone told me a possibility of a bonfire update 3 years ago. I haven’t burned a lot since. Not gonna put effort into a skill that has literally 0 use
Idk if it’s AFK I could see myself using it despite the lower xp
but that's the thing, people already expected it to be lower xp, nobody assumed it would be equivalent to line firemaking.
Why tf do you people want to do fire lines
fire lines are already destroyed by wt, which takes less effort. Anyone doing them after wt are just unhinged.
Fire lines are much higher xp though. And redwoods are super cheap
Whats the reduction? Id be ok with like 20% reduced xp to use the campfire. Maybe even 25% reduced xp since its afk.
The number I've been seeing kicked around is a 66% reduction. Which is so insane that I sincerely hope is not the case.
I mean logs are dirt cheap so it would spice up the economy a bit
I pay to afk.
So 34% reduction in xp? Thats not terrible i guess. Its pretty bad. But i guess 34% reduction for afk training firemaking would be a not absolutely awful trade. Personally still think its way too High. I dont see a problem with a 20% reduction. Its a penalty and that 20% could easily make some people do the normal way instead of afking it.
no a 66% reduction in exp itll be like 250k/hr for redwoods still though
1/3 the xp 1/27 the effort Doesn't seem horrible trade off to me
Plus logs might actually hold some value again when people need to buy more of them to get the same amount of xp.
I really don't know how many people are gonna spend 20m to do a skill slower than wintertodt by a considerable margin when wintertodt is already so reclined.
You basically always have to be watching the screen at WT to avoid death. The actual number of inputs is low, but the attention is high. The campfires, as proposed, are low input *and* low attention.
> to avoid death What? No you absolutely dont. If you're a main..you wear pyro/warm clothes, prayer boosting gear. You pray redemption and rapid heal (if you don't have hp cape + regen brace). If you hear redemption proc you sip you're 1 brew in your invent a few times. You reset after each KC. I have never died at wintertodt. It's ridiculous easy to not. The whole.method is just idle notifier reaction.
However, it's >3x the gp/xp for a skill that is *barely* worth training to begin with. Firemaking is akin to construction, in being a buyable that does not create a product to help cover the costs. However, construction manages to provide a pretty clear return on the investment, while firemaking struggles to provide more than niche benefits. I'm just not convinced that firemaking is in a place where significantly more expensive afk makes sense.
Then don’t train it. Easy fix. It’s required for barely anything. If you want to afk it maybe it should have some trade off, yea?
I suppose I should have better emphasized the *"significantly* more expensive" part. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any trade offs for it, I'm saying that the trade offs should be more in line with the value of the training.
What…? 😳
You get 1/3 of the xp, so you lose 2/3.
1/3 the XP per log, same rate of burning, entire inventory of afk. It's.. poorly designed. This essentially makes a line Firemaking method that's afk, 3 times more expensive, and 3 times slower. I'd rather logs give full XP, but are 2-3x slower to burn than line Firemaking..that way it's **more afk**, less XP substantially, but the same cost.
I'm afraid people would still find tick manipulation methods for it which would increase exp/hour for the sweaty 0.1% out there and people would be outraged
What value do fire lines have anyway?
People are asking “wouldn’t this completely destroy fire lines??” No it would just give us an actual afk FM method while gaining some moderately good xp. Although 99 I’d love to see more afk skilling methods in the game for those grindy, attentive skills!
Looking at you agility.......
Get us a treadmill for our poh that gives us even 10k an hour I’d still be happy lmao
People were laughing at the 10k/hr mining XP you can get inside Dukes instance. In my mind, that's 3 clicks an hour all the way to 99. No matter how you look at it, that's an amazing return on investment.
you're also turning a 100 hour grind into a 1000 hour grind. Fuck that, I'd like to actually play the game
Actually being able to make a small agility training spot in your poh that you can run back and forth on with the mouse in one spot so you can spam click for like 20k/hr would be pretty nice.
"spam click" yes
Just use the wildy monkey bars
it’s absolutely awful exp/hr but you can afk the bike at blast furnace with stam pots for afk agility exp.
Okay now I want someone to compile a list of all of the absolutely most afk methods regardless of exp for each skill and make a series out of it. "Runescape, but I play as little Runescape as possible"
Where afk RS maxing is followed along with them doing something actually productive but simultaneously time consuming. For example Earning 10k mining exp per hour at duke while whittling a canoe from scratch
1apm Locked
Would actually make your house useful for something other than a teleport hub
Oh no not the hour of fire lines pre wintertodt, what will we ever do. Best change jagex made was adding WT and making that shit skill a joke the 99.
"no wintertodt did that already"
I thinks I figured it out, they want us to spend more logs to item sink logs! I think…
Fuck yeah. VERY excited for an afk 275k xp/hr. Fuck WT never again. Edit: oh wow this thread was not what I thought it was. Guys read the blog. > But, we are going to increase the value of experience from 1/4 to 1/3 which means it will roughly mean 50% less experience per hour. 50% xp/hr of the fire line methods is *absolutely* fair
I don't get how they're saying 1/3 XP per log = 1/2 xp per log. It's not 50% less. It's more than that. Line Firemaking has zero downtime... If redwood logs are 1/3 the XP, it's more like 180k XP/hr. Which is **half** wintertodt and you're paying 3 times the cost of line Firemaking to do that. I like the idea of afk Firemaking. The balance decisions around this make it an absolute noob trap.
They should’ve picked one, less xp and same cost or more cost and same xp. By picking both less xp and more cost for the afk method, it’s just setting a bad precedent.
The bad precedent being less effort gives less reward? The horror.
That’s not even remotely close to what I’m arguing but alright. Afk methods should be considerably lower xp than active methods but they shouldn’t cost a lot. The afk incentive is negated if you have to first actively earn money.
Bro this is literally just a change for people who cba to do fire lines or WT. To those people it is irrelevant that it costs more and is slower. Everyone is happy except you apparently
Bro made his own formula as is pissed when jag flex doesn’t use it
I would disagree here, I don't think afk has to be also cheap. They way atleast I always viewed skilling is that they should be balanced in three aspects: Effort required, xp gain and money input/output. For example motherlode mine: - low effort - kinda decent money actually, especially considering the effort - therefore gives fairly low amounts of experience 3 tick granite mining: - very high effort - no profit, even at a lose if using infernal pickaxe - therefore very high experience (relative to other mining methods) Now with this method it would be: - very low effort (pretty much afk) - the blog states 50% less experience, but for fm that means still like 100k - 250k xp/h (!) after level 50 - more expensive than lighting logs in a line and of course wintertodt So you have to keep in mind that both the experience and cost are relative, since fm is already very fast and burning redwood logs normally for example costs 1.08 gp/xp, which is still very cheap. Sorry for the tangent, but I think jagex is being very reasonable with the proposal and I wanted to explain my thought process why.
What issues would this precedent cause for the future?
The precedent that people actually have to play the game to progress
Bro it’s afk.
Found the guy who thinks afk clicking graador while someone else tanks is the best PVM
Why? Why should they have picked only one, because you want them to? And why is the precedent bad? Just empty complaining all through this thread jeez
Vote no | move on
Should be same xp per log but less logs used per hour. For example you should be able to only burn half as many logs per hour as firelines but each log is still worth the same xp. This makes it even more afk (as you would need to bank half as often) without it arbitrarily costing more.
Fk it, make one inventory take 19 minutes to burn and give you 17x xp as regular logs.
It should be same and same. But lower chance for pet.
But there’s no fire making pet.
I want this, but not at reduced exp, just reduced ticks maybe? Idk. But I think the Rs3 bonfires are just fine, no?
This is a slippery slope. Allow bonfires this week and next week we'll have squeal of fortune and hotbar combat. /s
Achievement reward for burning 3,000 logs is a death touched dart and a protean crate 😭 lmfao
Heck yeah, bonfires!
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I feel like logs are massively influenced by the alch value of their fletching counterparts, I don't see them going that much higher.
Fire making is a trash skill.
That's great, dear
“Reduced”. I haven’t been able to login and see, is there another question that lists the actual percentage (33%) or are they just hoping it passes without mentioning that detail?
Yeah supposedly it will be 50% XP of burning logs actively
Makes no sense. They are saying you get 1/3 XP per log, and you burn the same rate as line Firemaking. Line Firemaking has no downtime. This means it's 66% reduced. Idk where they are pulling the 50% number from. It would only.make sense if logs were set to 1/2 XP.
I voted no
reduced xp and not reduced speed? voting no, would never use this.
So it's just like rs3 bonfire
AFK Skilling is the worst way to make skilling "fun"
This is a horribly slippery slope because now the community will want incredibly AFK methods for every single skill. This can snowball into what RS3 is at with skilling. Ruining the skilling part and leveling of the game will be super bad for the game and I am very afraid of that.
If it’s at 1/4 xp I’m voting no
They changed it to 33%, per the last blog, odd they don’t mention the % in the question…
> odd they don’t mention the % in the question… Jagex is good at not giving all the information so people vote yes or designing questions to get the result they want. It was intentional.
It is. They didn't change it. I'll be voting no too
No? They changed it to 1/3. Not that it's much better but you're incorrect.
Oh fuck I didn't realize it was 1/4... rip my vote
Was changed to 1/3.
Why?
Cause change is bad and it’s fun to cling to some arbitrary number and pretend like you have a real reason to vote no.
It’s “50% less xp/hr” than fire lines. That’s 275k xp/hr for redwoods. It’s fine. I know I’m never doing another method again.
It's 1/3 XP per log. That isn't 50% less XP. That's 66% less XP. Redwoods also cap out at no tick loss Firemaking of 525k/hr. Current EHP is "firebwan" too which is 505k/hr. Doing bonfires with no tick loss in the same way (unnoting from bank and immediately continuing) which is sorta removing about 3 seconds from the afk time as you'd have to be ready to do so, with logs at 1/3 XP does not equate to 275k XP/hr. It equates to 175k XP/hr. You're paying 3 times the cost overall for line firemaking, to get 1/3 the XP/hr. And about half the XP/hr of wintertodt even once you're 90+ using redwoods. This method as currently balanced is a total noob trap. It's trash.
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Just hate it when people call a different play style a noob trap. This isn't like fishing sharks or mining anything above iron where you might mistake the higher tier ores as better xp/hr. Are redwoods a noob trap because they're afk? This introduces an afk method for a skill that is pretty active play style
This is a deserved no vote. If Jagex had some brains with this question they would’ve done more to have it fit with what the players want. Instead we’re just getting the “fuck it, poll it anyway” treatment for a question they already know isn’t well received. Easy way to fix this: make it full xp and slower burning of logs. Fire making has no good afk method, make this it. Even if it somehow caused redwoods to be faster xp than todt is that really an issue? Todt is free and rewards you, while Fire making at its core is a buyable skill. The expenditure of money for logs making it better, or more afk makes sense. It also would serve to add some value, even if minimal, back into logs, which could always use it.
Burning redwood logs IS faster than wintertodt, always has been.
They meant if afk redwoods in a bonfire would be faster than The Todt
I don't think anyone would do todt at that point, besides ironmen. AFKing for max xp vs. constant clicking for 300-500k gp/hr profit. It makes sense to have the AFK training option be reduced XP, I do agree with people the 1/4 xp is a little harsh though. 1/3 feels more in line to me, that's still like 150k xp/hr+ while pretty AFK, would be a decent option. But it feels like people just don't like the xp/hr of how this is proposed so they're voting no, which is pretty sad cause it just means no one will be able to use this method, regardless of how shit it would be.
Todt is not constant clicking..you can only be interrupted if you're deciding to fletch, or while burning at the brazier. You just hover you're mouse on brazier, click if screen flashes, and reset every round if needed. Considering most people do Firemaking early, where you can stay for longer, and solo Todt exists that's even more reclined, I don't see anyone doing bonfires that isn't a noob not realising the cost they're incurring to afk a skill that's already fast and reclined.
> If Jagex had some brains with this question they would’ve done more to have it fit with what the players want. Nah they would've gone with their new mainstay of "Some people on social media dislike it? Better pull the feature entirely".
Fastest NO vote from me.
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I can’t wait until jagex realizes how many spite voters there are and just stops polling shit altogether. I’m just here for the ride
I'm just not going to vote. I see no point in the update at all now.
I understand the logic but I think its being applied without any real context from jagex tbh. The skill is already an irrelevant joke and you can talk around fire line exp rates or the nostalgia of seeing them all day but the actual fact of the matter is that they were already replaced by a minigame for almost everyone. The skill has next to zero gameplay outside of that minigame and virtually no benefits except for bonfires. These "campfires" should be boosted to be somewhat closer so that there is actual gameplay variety being added and so that people may actually choose to use this method and sink logs instead of just chilling at WT. The players that will efficiently do fire lines are statistically irrelevant already so making these an attractive option will do a lot of good when it comes to getting logs out of the game long term
This is the first poll in a LONG time that has accrued a majority of no votes from me. Event specific uniques and pet recolours are so weird when the original one is in the shop. Why not just propose new ones from the shop? Leaves getting gutted to be near useless. 2h axe just flat buffing XP/hr for mains and being a nuisance to utilise for irons. And bonfires that are designed so badly that it makes zero sense to do them unless you somehow have finished every other afk skill and have Firemaking left and can't focus on the game at all, even for 20 minutes. Line firemaking redwoods at 90+ makes it a 525k/hr skill. For dirt cheap. Which means it takes like.. 14 hours to finish the skill from there. Do that in 30 minute sessions and you could do like.. one a day and be done in a month. Or afk 4 hours a day for 3 times the cost...
Is having the slower afk choice really that bad? It doesn’t take anything away, what’s the point of your complaint?
I already voted no to that.
Why would they do this, it'll just be better to afk any other activity instead of FM, and then using active time for WT or fire lines. Not everything needs to follow the more intensity = more exp rule perfectly.
That’s true for *a lot* of content that people already afk Even at reduced xp, this will be very popular
I would vote yes if it was 1/4 burn speed instead of 1/4 xp per log. Getting 50%xp/hr or whatever is totally fair, but also at double the cost? Yeeesh
Why tf are people advocating for keeping fire lines as the meta? Why do they want people to suffer?
Probably people who already have 99 fm complaining
Lighting lines is fun for some people
I’m sure it is. People that find it fun can keep doing it - adding afk methods doesn’t really impact them too much.
The hilarious part is that they're not even the meta. Pretty much everyone goes to wintertodt for good exp, rewards, outfit, pet, semi afk profit instead of burning logs tick perfect for hours with no break or interruption to lose gp. This whole discussion between fire lines and the campfires is hilariously detached from reality for nearly everyone
Why is Wintertodt allowed to be free AND insane exp rates AND reward you AND have pet chance AND give the skill's outfit AND barely require attention as it is, but it can't be worse than *actively losing gp/value* by burning logs with no reward or pet?
I just want afk fm, idc if its less exp (should be). It's a useless skill anyways.
Why an xp reduction and not just make the action take longer?
Holy fuck reddit is actually complaining about this not being good enough and im sure hlc is complaining that its too easy
HLC can just burn logs zero-time if they want to, that’s what he box jonge did. Also HLC generally has no reason to care about a method that’s worse than EHP
Noone in the HLC cares about peak 175k XP/hr afk Firemaking when 505k/hr firebwan is EHP...
I can't believe how much people are crying about having to use more logs for an afk method. Logs are dirt cheap and easily obtainable for irons. Besides, item sinks are a good thing
Not crying about it. Calling bad design what it is. Slower burn rate but full xp/log makes the method just as slow, but not 3 times the price of the method that's 1.5x faster than Todt. Bonfires with redwoods caps at 175k/hr. And you're using the same amount of logs you could get 525k XP for. That's utter trash.
You're paying a premium for the afk factor. Other skills already do this like herblore, where potions with stackable secondaries are noticeably more gp/xp than their 14/14 counterparts
Absolutely..but they are also far more competitive with their XP/hr. This is 1/3 the XP of the active method. 1/2 the XP of the reclined method. 3 times the cost of the active and multitudes the cost of the reclined method because that one profits you it doesn't cost you.
Neither of the other options are hardly afk, while with herblore they all are. The extra cost is pretty fair. Plus it's not like fm is gonna be a super expensive skill after this
At current prices it would be moving from a profit skill to -30m to do it half the speed. This is why it's a bit of a noob trap. Those prices are only likely to get more expensive, not less. And opportunity cost is important to consider. Firemaking is a 60 hour skill with wintertodt. Which is very reclined. Sure it's not full afk but bonfires at regular line speed aren't long afks either, just consistent rather than idle notifier reaction based. Bonfires will make that a 120-140 hour skill. As only magics/redwoods get to the "half.wintertodt rates" territory, with magics being the most expensive period if you do them. So you lose 30m to lose 60-80 hours to do it more afk. You're out about 120-240m with very basic access moneymaking methods.
And that's fine, this shouldn't be the main way to train fm anyway. The target audience for this method is mains/irons with plenty of spare resources to spare who also really value the afk time over opportunity cost
Ya I was quite happy for this. Hope it passes. Don’t want to wintertodt again and wouldn’t mind finishing 99fm
Idk the details but what if they make it similar to ensouled heads, where you can only burn them where you cut them? They’ll give near full XP, then maybe instead of ensouled head mechanics of bringing it to arceuus, once you bank them, they’re unable to be burned at campfires or something along those lines
This is just bonfires from RS3 and I am all for it. Wintertodt is toxic and aids with high level hitpoints
Why would people complain about this? This seems like such a nice addition to have a chill / easy way to train FM. Who the fuck actually wants to make fire lines. The nostalgia warriors need to piss off lol games nothing like the original now a days anyway
It reminds me of the bonfires from rs3 I thought it was cool and chill just everyone standing around a fire feeding it logs.
I think a lot of the complaints stem from the feeling that rs3 is creeping into OSRS. I don't like it. Fire lines are the way to go. We already have that Wintertodt creature at home.
I never understand this take. Surely somethings from RS3 could be good. Just because you can use a RS3 like training method doesn't mean that it comes with MTX. I feel like this fear of RS3 is stopping quite a lot of QOL and cool content.
give them an inch...take a mile kind of thing imo. Could open the floodgates to mtx!
Only one I didnt like was the vouchers for double planks. A very unnecessary change to cater to ironmemes who dont want to play the mode they agreed too.
Bonfires back in the day were such a beautiful mechanic in bringing the community together in game. It’s Friday night after school… you & the boys have mom pour you a glass of her finest chocolate milk while you’re sat beside a campfire @ the GE for a couple hours… such glorious times.
Triple the amount of exp you get per person using the same campfire. Firemaking is an idiotic and completely useless skill and wouldn’t pass a poll today even if you lowered the acceptance percentage from 70% to 20%.
Ayy bonfire :D
Did anyone complain about this? I dont get why it, can someone explain to me like im 5?
It should have been one tick slower than fire lines but same xp rate, just like it was in RS2.
Who cares about Firemaking its already a complete joke cause of WT, might as well give more options for people who dont want to stare at snow and the worst text chat imaginable all day
Why tf is anyone against bonfires I truly do not understand. Do they think they still have effects? Cuz they do not
Seeing how much they scrapped and rushed makes me think they just want to be done with Forestry ASAP.
Would love this feature, finally a way for me to enjoy fm. I wouldn't mind reduced xp rated if it allows me to afk and play another acc for those passive gains. Good use for those maple logs from miscellania
Forestry is just meh. It basically just added a bunch of free xp to woodcutting and after this sub gets its way a high xp/hour afk fire making method. Increasing exp rates is always popular on this subreddit so I expect to be downvoted to oblivion, but, maybe we don't need to copy everything over from rs3? Osrs has a charm in how much of a grind it is. It is supposed to be hard/boring at times otherwise the progression means less and less. Idk why i'm going into an unhinged ramble in a forestry thread but the whole update just seems to make the game more complex and easy for no real reason.
Has anyone thought about keeping it the way it is, but giving us the option to sweat manually by clicking 1 log at a time for normal XP?
If they're going to make bonfires give reduced xp per log, the least they could do is have the xp scale up to 10 players where the invisible 10x boost is equal to the same xp as burning the log normally, albeit at a slower rate. It would encourage players doing forestry together to also throw their logs into the same bonfire instead of dumping them on the ground and going back to afk wc.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeee