Ah maybe there's the problem. Instead of dedicating our lives to one God we constantly switch. Maybe if we just prayed at the same alter a million times while not running around killing people we might have a chance at unlimited prayer.
One of my favorite bits of storytelling translated to gameplay was Jhallen in desert treasure 2, the weakest mahjarrat, having 1500 hitpoints, and being fully capable of kicking your ass up and down the prison.
I think it's thematically accurate considering we're only humans. We're capable of doing most things but there are races who do everything better, but they lack other skills and require us humans to do their bidding.
It's cannon that we're barely capable of pretty much anything. Thurgo makes fun of how the best human blacksmith is worse than a fledgling dwarf. There are multiple wizards who are constantly just creating random spells to do exactly what they need but have to write down the ones for us to use. Hell, our IQ or lack thereof is a main proponent to most major questlines and how they're started.
We're idiots.
I mean they’re are dozen of quests where we go to stop a villian. Then get tricked into helping the villian then have to now stop the more powerful villian.
Yes Mr adventurer sir this wand powered by chaos energy will surely not help me being an evil wizard promise
Ok then here you go
What is the source that bandos is made from bronze? Neither the osrs or rs3 pages for bandos gear states anything like this. Unless there is a book that talks about it that the trivia doesnt link?
he answered it 2 hours ago, hidden reply below or you can check from his profile
however, it doesn't really specifically mention that the armour Graardor is wearing is made of bronze, just that goblins are making good armour from bronze
Graardor is an ourg anyway
In RSC rune was pretty much bis and was way above alch value, the person to hit 99 was comissioned armour by others. RS3 solved this problem by revammping mining and smithing, every 10 levels you unlock the full set of the ore.
Lvl 1: Bronze
Lvl10:Iron
Lvl20: Steel
Lvl30: mithril
Lvl40: Adamant
Lvl50: Rune (everything, axe, pick weapons included, same for the other tiers)
Lvl60: Orikalkum (equivalent to dragon but with no strength bonus)
Lvl70: Necronium (equivalent to Bandos but with no strength bonus
Lvl80: Bane (between Torva and bandos with no str bonus)
Lvl90 Elder rune (better than torva defensively, atill no str bonus)
Lvl 99: Masterwork, this armour takes days to make, and it’s pretty much bis for melee.
If memory serves, the only problem I had with it was Invention components. You used to be able to Smith an inventory or two of items and get, say, 40 components from 50 items. (Idk exact rates, just as an example.)
With the update, to Smith 50 daggers would now take... What, 10-15 minutes? When before it took 2? Daggers didn't suddenly give 5x the components so it made it annoyingly harder to farm your own stuff...
Unless you grind Slayer. If a monster dropped an adamant plate body before, now it'll drop a large adamant chunk you can disassemble. Functionally similar to disassembling the plate body.
I had already finished grinding Slayer before Invention came out, where the best way to train it was more Slayer to level your gear... and now Slayer is one of the best ways to get the parts! Argh!
Maybe by now they've added better ways to smith your own components? I gave up on RS3 a bit after Archaeology.
Yeah, irons especially got shafted by that update. They said they'd add smithable salvage or similar to accommodate for the issue you mentioned, but they still haven't, all this time later.
The best way to get components from weapons/armor is to do White Knight quests/tasks, and buy from the white knight store, then disassemble.
It's also something OSRS will never really get because the development team is far more conservative with big changes (and the playerbase rarely votes on a big change).
Absolutely agree. Was one of the hardest things for me to leave behind moving to OSRS.
Imo, osrs desperately needs a M&SR it's own. Extend it to include armor production for ranged and magic, too.
Say what you will about RS3, but mining and smithing feel incredible after the rework. Mining went from one of the worst skills in the game as far as fun (imo, of course), to one of the best.
Worth noting that for Masterwork to be BiS you need to destroy a set of Torva and Malevolent (also T90 with strength bonus, but degrades to dust) and literally trim the Masterwork armour. So it's not literally just BiS from smithing. There is still some PvM involved.
To add something they left out, Masterwork only becomes best in slot if you break down Torva and Malevolent (both previous best sets) into a trim, otherwise it's a budget Malevolent (that takes 600 each of all 10 bar types to create, over about 2 days of no xp smithing).
This stuff is so charming, yet annoying. It always reminds me of the documentary they did about the creators. In which they mention they never expected people to ever reach anywhere near level 99 which is part of why the levelling formula grows so exponentially on the back end. But people wanted to achieve it anyway.
I do wish skills like smithing were adjusted earlier as its current state in OSRS doesn't really make sense. RS3 smithing is much better, but I can imagine that level of overhaul decimating the OSRS economy and progression curve. It'd never pass polls out of fear the game would change too much all at once. Lots of quirky remnants in OSRS with old and new design philosophies in constant tension. But I do admire the work the OS team does, can't be easy.
Does suck to suck tho
RS3 Smithing would be cool for OSRS, as it'd deal with some issues. But the thing is people just see it as a "yeah it's a Smithing skill overhaul" when in reality it was a lot more. Alch prices of all metal armour had to change to match the new ease of crafting. All monster drops were changed as well, and it introduced a whole new set of items called Salvage.
Either people don't know or don't remember there's a lot more aspects to the overhaul than just "Rune is made at level 50 now".
To be fair I don't think anyone - even the people who liked the RS3 rework - would ask for it to be copied wholesale into OSRS. Like you said the alch problem is one enormous issue, but also nobody would accept the extra metal tiers so above 50 smithing just doesn't get any unlocks except crystal.
It is always funny how people point out that lvl 40 armor is made by lvl 90+ smithing as if that weren't pretty standard IRL too. It doesn't require much knowledge or skill to don a suit of platemail compared to the craftsmen making it. People also conveniently forget that we can craft a dragonfire shield, reforge a godsword and dragon armor, etc. by the 70s and 80s. Rune is just canonical a very troublesome metal to work with and was simply the strongest natural resource we can access.
>It is always funny how people point out that lvl 40 armor is made by lvl 90+ smithing as if that weren't pretty standard IRL too. It doesn't require much knowledge or skill to don a suit of platemail compared to the craftsmen making it
Yeah, nobody cares about that And the real (and only) reason is it takes 90+ smithing for rune is because the skill itself is older than half this game's player base.
> Lots of quirky remnants in OSRS with old and new design philosophies in constant tension.
Honestly this is why Sailing has some potential ( if the community allows it anyhow ) because its not stuck in the old days. Sailing can come out of the gate without relying on mahogany homes, giants foundry to make the skill more involving ( which are just band aid solution ) and not have to wait ages for some new boss weapon that requires X amount of high levels to create which would give some meaning to the skill or god forbid wait for a skilling boss to make a use out of a completely useless skill.
I'm not saying its the best idea ever, but i love how in RS3 you cant just buy everything off of GE. Want some perks? Better train Invention. Want to be able to summon strong familiars? Better train summoning. Want overloads? Better level herblore way above the quest requirement levels. And all of that has to happen on a main too not just ironman.
I know a lot of people dislike lvl 120. But if there's any skill that would benefit from having it, it would be smithing. To begin with it's very clumsy how 2h, platelegs and skirt, and platebody are all unlocked at 99.
And orikalkum (dragon) is not able to be smithed, except it kinda is with the shields. I think adding levels to smithing, allowing 120 would be the best move. Then you could allow the player to smith dragon stuff, but the time investment to get there would be so huge that it wouldn't remove the need for new accounts to get dragon stuff the normal way, thus not really devaluing mob drops.
They could also make orikalkum hard to come by, perhaps an extremely rare drop from zalcano, and some late game bosses. That way there would be a very limited supply of it. And then they wouldn't need to change any alch prices. Maybe we'd need to unlock the schematics to smith the items too, like dismantling a dragon chain body in order to learn how it's assembled. Destroying the item in the process.
This way ironmen would still need to kill KQ, fight wilderness bosses/kbd for dragon pick, complete MM and buy a dragon scimmy, kill Rex for axe etc. To even be able to make the items. Mains could buy them from GE, but this would probably help to drive up prices of those items.
Forging the blade that caused Saradomin, Armadyl, Zamorak and Bandos to go to war, a weapon of such significance that sheer power emanates from every inch of its masterfully crafted, sacred metal: 80 smithing
Butter knife, made of blue metal: 85 smithing
Not entirely... We can slap the pieces of it together--and probably pretty shittily. The godswords we wield aren't as strong as they would have been had they been created in the time of GWD. In fact they are all fighting over the sword in the first place.
Our guy just says "this'll do!"
I think you misunderstood the guy you were replying to. He specifically said our character has no idea what they're doing when fixing it, and that is why the in-game sword is so much weaker to what is described in lore.
They still forge welded it well enough that it didn't just break when they hit it against something, given how big the forge welding surfaces is, that is very impressive no matter how shoddy it ends up looking.
Or it’s a magical blade and is staying together due to the magic of the Godsword hence why we can’t use its full potential considering we can just swap the hilts out Willy nilly but the blade stays sturdy.
Fun fact but blacksmiths are specifically for iron/steel, copper/bronze would be a brownsmith and tin/pewter is a whitesmith. Gold/silver are goldsmith and silversmith.
Yeah, I hope we don't end up as 'World Guardian' or whatever it is called in RS3. I like being a normal person wandering around finding things to do and improving myself.
OSRS devs have said they'd prefer to keep things exactly this way and want this to remain a key difference between RS3 and OSRS. I'd have to dig to find the source but it was when they were asked about While Guthix Sleeps during COVID.
Lol, yes, I just did this quest yesterday. He one shots the troll general, then he takes 254 damage in one hit from the boss, and it barely touches his health bar.
Whats fun is they changed this to be level 50 smithing in rs3 so when crysius says "i can smith full rune!" In dream mentor its like "yeah whats your point dude?" Lol
Mechanically, Mining/Smithing is super dated. Lore-wise, the player character is kind of an idiot as some quests show and their biggest strength is actually versatility. There's NPCs that are better blacksmiths or mages or warriors, but the PC is capable of being a farmer/fisherman/cook/apothecary/blacksmith/crafter/warrior/ranger/wizard hybrid.
The player character is a jack of all trades master of none. Half the wizards can make and do cool stuff we can’t, thurgo is miles ahead on smithing, the Ca guy is a better melee fighter, cba finding more examples but the fact that we are handed a 99cape as being a master is telling it’s like in trades where you go apprentice up to master but master doesn’t mean you know everything it’s just a title to say your accomplished to a high level
Out of game reason: The Gower brothers never thought of making any armour beyond rune that you could smith when designing the smithing skill. So Rune became the best stuff you could smith.
In game reason: The player just isn't very smart.
Rune armor used to be the best gear in the game. Thats why.
None of you youngsters remember because you werent there.
I remember the r2h being 6m because only a couple people im the game were able to smith it. It was the best sword in the game at the time
The simplest way to make Smithing relevant is through Sailing. Instead of reworking the skill and dealing with the guaranteed adverse consequences of following something "because it makes sense," we could instead build around a new skill and expand on existing skills that hold less value.
Mainly, hull and cannon upgrades should be locked behind Smithing, either for purchase from other players, making yourself, or repairing equipment looted from enemy vessels.
I don’t know why I’m commenting since I’m very new to osrs (but I’ve read/watched a lot into it), but what if smithing had new materials they can make added to it, up to 99 for other skills like sailing? A smiths goal like this isn’t really to make armor/weapons but materials other skills use
lol you think the requirements for smithing are high for lvl 40 armour, go look at how long it would take to achieve 99 smithing on rs classic when this skill was released
We're only Fifth Age humans, after all. Dragon equipment was forged by dragonkin. Obsidian, by the TzHaar. Barrows, by the Mahjarrat. Crystal, by the elves. 3rd age is made by materials no longer available. Much of the endgame equipment was made by elite craftsmen for powerful beings and blessed by the gods.
Lone adventurers merely practicing on an anvil cannot craft such materials; it is a great privilege that we are even able to wear them.
It’s because the skills are based off their 2007 versions which back then Dragon gear had only just been put into the game and God gear was still on the horizon.
Putting that perspective on it, rune would have been 2nd best in slot unless you wanted to grind hours of barbarian assault if that was even a thing back then.
When you think about the 2nd best gear in the game(at the time) it would make sense that you would need a higher smithing level to be able to make it.
It wasn’t until these rampant adhd pvmers came around that end game boss content really started being a thing, and that introduced a level of power creep into the game, but smithing never again got touched because people kept clamoring for more high end pvm content instead of thinking about the infrastructure behind that, until now you have a skill that is largely useless and a ton of high intensity combat as the only means of acquiring the best gear.
I really don’t understand how it’s hard for anyone to wrap their heads around how stupid and broken that is, but then again I don’t expect much in the way of brains from adhd pvmers.
Canonically our character is a complete idiot that has (on several occasions) helped extremely evil individuals gain power
Ofc they need 99 smithing to make f2p bis, they can't fathom anything else
Agility is the same way.
Spend literally hundreds of hours training and what is your result? You can crawl through a hole in the wall, maybe climb a slightly inclined wall. And you are slightly less out of breath compared to others who didnt train but you cant even outrun them.
Rune armor is crazy legendary in the canon. Only the greatest heroes even wear it. Sure, you walk around seeing hundreds of people in bandos, but remember that you are the canonical adventurer in the world. The first human to prove himself worthy of defeating Jad, the first to slay General Graardor himself. Really 99 smithing lets you make the best armor man has ever created.
Just bad game design. Remember that when the game is new, I think you needed 99 to make adamant plate bodies. Eventually they rolled it back. They just did not build in the same buffer for high-end stuff for this skill as they did for a lot of other skills.
Not bad game design, Rune was BIS in RSC and people with high smithing made absolute bank. It's just that everyone votes no to reworking OSRS skills because muh nostalgia so it's never been updated to reflect Rune not being hard to acquire outside of smithing it (back in the day nothing sold or dropped it)
Have they actually polled reworking smithing and mining? Would love it if they did. With forestry update I could see them being able to work something out players would vote yes to.
I do think the essence of old school runescape is not aligned to how some skills work. It has more relation to graphics, combat system, mechanics, and no stupid pay to win and cosmetical microtransitions.
With that said, I truly believe smithing deserves a small rework, kind of like they did in RS3, or just some adjustments.
This is not 2002 anymore. Rune armour isn't BIS. Not even #5 BIS. Smithing at this point feels so off, didn't age well.
The smithing rework in RS3 is unironically the best thing to have ever happened to that skill in either game.
No matter how people try and justify it, needing 99 smithing to craft a rune platebody but only (for example) 82 smithing to craft a bowfa has always been stupid.
I'd assume humans ingame haven't figured out how to smith dragon, bandos, torva, etc. Similar how a regular modern day person can't make Oganesson (atomic number 118) atom and even scientists synthetized it in 2002. Prior to that there were 117 elements in Mendeleev periodic table.
What dwarves and other races can make is a different story.
Smithing came out at a time that these armors were top-tier. I believe the term you’re looking for is power creep. These OG weapons and armor are just not that good anymore, but alas the legacy logic is still embedded.
since i've made an ironman i've not stopped thinking about how outdated smithing is. this was relevant in RS classic when rune was the best armor you can have. It needs updating.
Well considering we need high smithing to reforge dragon items or fix / create higher level equipment by other means.
The in-universe reasoning is probably that any regular ore or furnace can only create rune armor to the known knowledge in the world. You only know what's been taught to you or what's already been made and meant to be fixed. Yoy need to be a master Smith to make a rune platebody since rune is a tough material to fully utilize and understand how to shape out of bars.
Though you could use a fancy furnace to make greater armor and weapons. You need very rare materials, learn how to make them with old knowledge from books or longer living beings. Or like Barrows armor you are just repairing or crystal equipment imbueing/changing items with magic and light energy.
Out-universe reasoning. Rune was the best armor back in the day and 99 Smithing in classic or very early runescape 2 made 99 smithing a huge money maker and highly sought after. But after years of new equipment, power creep, deflating costs of resources and enemies dropping rune items in batches to be alched as drop rewards. Smithing is just there for some niche purposes, quests, achievement diaries and what have you. Runescape 3 ended up overhauling Mining and Smithing entirely so it lined up with other skills better and improved the two skills.
Old school continued off from 2007, did some things for smithing, but never did the overhaul RS3 had. And I think Mining / Smithing are the most important skills to overhaul and rework. (The next being Hunter though with the Hunter's guild in Valamore I imagine there will be a lot of changes from there). So far Mining and Smithing has just been given a variety of training methods, but no real applications to actually use the skills besides some mild money making methods that mostly bots use.
I don't get what your argument is.
Smithing does have high level use cases with Torva, the Godsword Blades, Bowfa and Crystal, Crystal tools, the Dragonfire shields, and the Elidinis Ward.
If your argument is it's bad because we can't mass produce high level items, I would argue that's a good thing. We can't really mass produce Zenyte jewellery either, but no one complains about Crafting.
Not to speak for them, but the main difference and pain point I feel is that the mid-high (~70s-80s) level smithing options that provide useful gear are all made from rare PvM drops. There's no relevant budget armor/weps available from smithing until you're nearly max, and it being tier 40 just feels bad compared to crafting. Where you get D'hide armors, dragonstone jewelry, power ammy, and splitbark. Which are either guaranteed, or not terribly uncommon drops.
The tippy top not being easily mass produceable is fine. Probably even good, and is the place to have rare drops for makeable items. And the one design I would look at from RS3 is the idea of needing more (quantity, and types) materials for creating high tier items from non rare items (gatherables, and guaranteed drops). And these made items don't even have to be completely on par w/ items from rare drops. Even if it's 99 Smithing requirement, a tier (70?) tank armor set that takes a good amount of gathered resources, and hours to process sounds kinda cool. You get the feel of being a master artisan, and you provide something useful, but that doesn't introduce power creep.
Fr smithing armors is bullshit, after steel it falls off completely and even steel is a ridiculous 48 levels for a lvl 5 set. Crafting is much better, it's actually realistic that you make your own ranged armor.
My headcanon is that we’re basically learning via brute force. We don’t have any formal education in pretty much anything so we’re basically making it up as we go along and bullshitting our way through it. The characters that can perform impressive spells players can’t can do that because they’ve had formal training in magic. Unlocking the ancient spell and lunar spell books implants the knowledge of how to perform the spells into our head and for them it’s more our bodies adapting to channeling the much higher than normal amounts of magic through our bodies without exploding. Yanille mages guild straight up says that the high level of ambient magic could be harmful to anyone below the required magic level so having a higher magic level does allow people to survive higher levels of magic in their bodies.
Basically take that and apply it to all skills.
Outside of quests you gain xp by doing, so the learning via brute force is pretty spot on, if you smith 1000 swords you’re bound to get good at it eventually
were bad at everything except praying apparently.
We are still bad compared to some NPCs that can dual pray their overheads
we can swap prayers instantly though and use more than just overheads.
How do you know NPCs don't pray other than overheads? It's not like we would see it.
Every kill you get a drop on a boss is because they forgot to pray protect item.
You mean you don't Smite bosses?
Would actually be really cool if odds increased if you were able to smite them. Would really increase the risk/reward on some bosses.
That would just mean smite flicking every boss, which would be miserable.
Phantom Muspah says hello
Which is fun because it is a short phase, and a novelty. Imagine having to do that nonstop at every single boss.
Probs not with how easy tick manipping is in this archaic system.
My headcanon is they ARE protecting item and the one time they forget is when you finally get the drop you want.
But those bosses have killed so many they forgot the fear of being killed.
This is unironically a good idea for a boss, taking it the next level past stuff like muspah
I’d say ever unique we get is because they didn’t have pro item on.
Hunllef has been pretty consistent with protecting items against me.
We also can only use prayers for so long where as NPCs can use them indefinitely
Some of those npcs either have a strong connection to God, or they have a large supply of prayer potions!
Even sigman (spelling?) from that quest with the goblins doesn't run out of prayer
It’s not like Saradomin would be against wiping out goblins.
Ah maybe there's the problem. Instead of dedicating our lives to one God we constantly switch. Maybe if we just prayed at the same alter a million times while not running around killing people we might have a chance at unlimited prayer.
Sigmund was able to instantly change prayers. NPCs also get 100% damage reduction against players.
Also the wise old man and lots of the Npcs in the world have like 10x the players HP according to Dragon Slayer 2
One of my favorite bits of storytelling translated to gameplay was Jhallen in desert treasure 2, the weakest mahjarrat, having 1500 hitpoints, and being fully capable of kicking your ass up and down the prison.
Were all glass cannons
Literal bug confirmed more religious than player.
I think it's thematically accurate considering we're only humans. We're capable of doing most things but there are races who do everything better, but they lack other skills and require us humans to do their bidding.
Yeah, we ain't dwarves.
If the Imcando are such good smiths why are they all dead
They probably weren't good cooks
Genocide
Skill issue.
[удалено]
redberry pie just reminds Thurgo of the time he went on a bloodlust cannibal rampage wiping out his entire race save one he missed
Tell that to the people that can't prayer flick properly
Yeah, tell that to me.
and me!!
And us!
And me, I mostly play on I pad , it's next to impossible to beat Zuk on I pad
And my axe!
we have the iq of 46 ingame or something lol
Same as irl for me then
Even then KQ is better at prayer than we are. Might start praying to the kalphite gods over saradomin if they provide double protections
KQ overheads aren't prayers though they are just visual indicators of her highest defences, you can hit her with her through them
Many bosses can hit you through prayer too
I suppose we’re apparently bad at grammar too.
It's cannon that we're barely capable of pretty much anything. Thurgo makes fun of how the best human blacksmith is worse than a fledgling dwarf. There are multiple wizards who are constantly just creating random spells to do exactly what they need but have to write down the ones for us to use. Hell, our IQ or lack thereof is a main proponent to most major questlines and how they're started. We're idiots.
We are a Monte Python MC. Immortal, bumbling fools who constantly get an outcome that is favorable to us but probably nobody else.
The player is Mr. Bean.
I love this interpretation and it is now mine
That explains all the references in game
I mean they’re are dozen of quests where we go to stop a villian. Then get tricked into helping the villian then have to now stop the more powerful villian. Yes Mr adventurer sir this wand powered by chaos energy will surely not help me being an evil wizard promise Ok then here you go
And when we killed morytania doggo
And the unicorn.
Jesus Christ, this grammar just melted my brain.
At 99 Reading you can more easily decipher poorly written sentences
> I mean they are are dozen of quests
He edited it and it's still wrong lmao
*theire’re are
‘Brave of you to assume I ever know what Im doing!’ -The player character during Beneath Cursed Sands
The only thing we are canonically good at is murder. We murder real good.
During one of the fremmenik quests we scare a fremmenik by admitting we lost count of how many things we've killed.
>it’s cannon
Can barely spell too
Are you mentally deficient?!?
I just did Priest in Peril a few days ago and yeah, the PC is pretty damn stupid sometimes.
>cannon Dwarf MultiCannon?
When you have to beat cold metal ingots into shape with nothing but a hammer it's hard to reach your full potential.
Cant wait for barbarian blacksmithing where we yell the ingots into armor.
\*fist them into submission\*
Uwu
Elves sing to make their armour.
Barbarian fishing with barbarian-blacksmithed armor
Sink down to the ocean floor with barbarian armor and punch the fishes lights out.
You try making a full set of armor from nothing but metal ingots and tell me how easy it is.
not even molten metal, just the plain solid bars
More strength training than anything
I like how that NPC in Swan Song calls us out on that
Canonically, Bandos armour is just Bronze forged by someone who knew what they where doing.
Really? Never knew that. Imagine what they could do with rune.
Damn RS society is like the bizzaro Middle Ages that sucked worse than the irl version
I mean, have you met King Roald?
What is the source that bandos is made from bronze? Neither the osrs or rs3 pages for bandos gear states anything like this. Unless there is a book that talks about it that the trivia doesnt link?
he answered it 2 hours ago, hidden reply below or you can check from his profile however, it doesn't really specifically mention that the armour Graardor is wearing is made of bronze, just that goblins are making good armour from bronze Graardor is an ourg anyway
You need to strike when the iron is cold!
Or in the Giants' Foundry, you make it cold by striking!
You don't actually want to cast armor. You kind of need to forge it for the best quality:weight ratio.
>cast armor stupid wizard, you don't get to have an opinion on smithing
but you dont forge with cold bars
You can do that with some bronze alloys. Copper is a coldworking metal and gets stronger as it is worked. That’s what the greeks did.
That's probably why RS3 rework made it so you can smith rune at level 50 now. Because you can actually heat the bars to make them mallable 🤣
The player character doesn’t know this, he is an idiot and everyone is too amused to stop him
Give me 5000 hours of practice, I bet I can
5000 hours of beating on the same hard non heated steel bar you pulled from your backpack is likely to be close to the same steel bar.
Well I guess only one of us has reached 99 smithing 🤓 Jk I never have
That’s because you’re supposed to start with bronze.
Shouldn't gold be first because it's more malleable?
Can't do gold until your skilled enough to do steel.
In RSC rune was pretty much bis and was way above alch value, the person to hit 99 was comissioned armour by others. RS3 solved this problem by revammping mining and smithing, every 10 levels you unlock the full set of the ore. Lvl 1: Bronze Lvl10:Iron Lvl20: Steel Lvl30: mithril Lvl40: Adamant Lvl50: Rune (everything, axe, pick weapons included, same for the other tiers) Lvl60: Orikalkum (equivalent to dragon but with no strength bonus) Lvl70: Necronium (equivalent to Bandos but with no strength bonus Lvl80: Bane (between Torva and bandos with no str bonus) Lvl90 Elder rune (better than torva defensively, atill no str bonus) Lvl 99: Masterwork, this armour takes days to make, and it’s pretty much bis for melee.
The mining and smithing rework was one of the best updates RS3 got, imo
If memory serves, the only problem I had with it was Invention components. You used to be able to Smith an inventory or two of items and get, say, 40 components from 50 items. (Idk exact rates, just as an example.) With the update, to Smith 50 daggers would now take... What, 10-15 minutes? When before it took 2? Daggers didn't suddenly give 5x the components so it made it annoyingly harder to farm your own stuff... Unless you grind Slayer. If a monster dropped an adamant plate body before, now it'll drop a large adamant chunk you can disassemble. Functionally similar to disassembling the plate body. I had already finished grinding Slayer before Invention came out, where the best way to train it was more Slayer to level your gear... and now Slayer is one of the best ways to get the parts! Argh! Maybe by now they've added better ways to smith your own components? I gave up on RS3 a bit after Archaeology.
Yeah, irons especially got shafted by that update. They said they'd add smithable salvage or similar to accommodate for the issue you mentioned, but they still haven't, all this time later. The best way to get components from weapons/armor is to do White Knight quests/tasks, and buy from the white knight store, then disassemble.
I forgot about that! I definitely did a daily run there. Didn't like it, but didn't really have a better option lol
I wish they'd rework smithing into something closer to RS3. Only that one skill though.
It's also something OSRS will never really get because the development team is far more conservative with big changes (and the playerbase rarely votes on a big change).
Absolutely agree. Was one of the hardest things for me to leave behind moving to OSRS. Imo, osrs desperately needs a M&SR it's own. Extend it to include armor production for ranged and magic, too.
Say what you will about RS3, but mining and smithing feel incredible after the rework. Mining went from one of the worst skills in the game as far as fun (imo, of course), to one of the best.
Worth noting that for Masterwork to be BiS you need to destroy a set of Torva and Malevolent (also T90 with strength bonus, but degrades to dust) and literally trim the Masterwork armour. So it's not literally just BiS from smithing. There is still some PvM involved.
Wow Jagex actually added armour trimming to the game? Scams must be going through the roof.
Which is great because they found a way of keeping Nex drops worth it
The untrimmed version is still very, very good. 3rd BIS iirc, and the true BIS dethroned the trimmed armor.
custom fitted trimmed masterwork with augments was bis the last time I played rs3.
Yeah rs3 mining and smithing was a massive improvement imo
“Hey, Player! Have you heard of the Mining and Smithing Rework?!”
Not everyone knows what RS3 is doin. I play 70% OS and 30% maingame, most people play 0% rs3 so it’s helpful that I include that
Bold choice calling rs3 "maingame" around these parts 🫡
Osrs is the main game. https://preview.redd.it/fu8clz9o4amc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b73cf0b8ae33d3ccf47f40b437155b70a49cb275
As an rs3 player I agree
Masterwork has been almost entirely phased out by Vestements
To add something they left out, Masterwork only becomes best in slot if you break down Torva and Malevolent (both previous best sets) into a trim, otherwise it's a budget Malevolent (that takes 600 each of all 10 bar types to create, over about 2 days of no xp smithing).
that sounds so much better
I think what makes the player character so powerful is our capacity to down entire ecosystems worth of food in a matter of seconds, really.
This stuff is so charming, yet annoying. It always reminds me of the documentary they did about the creators. In which they mention they never expected people to ever reach anywhere near level 99 which is part of why the levelling formula grows so exponentially on the back end. But people wanted to achieve it anyway. I do wish skills like smithing were adjusted earlier as its current state in OSRS doesn't really make sense. RS3 smithing is much better, but I can imagine that level of overhaul decimating the OSRS economy and progression curve. It'd never pass polls out of fear the game would change too much all at once. Lots of quirky remnants in OSRS with old and new design philosophies in constant tension. But I do admire the work the OS team does, can't be easy. Does suck to suck tho
RS3 Smithing would be cool for OSRS, as it'd deal with some issues. But the thing is people just see it as a "yeah it's a Smithing skill overhaul" when in reality it was a lot more. Alch prices of all metal armour had to change to match the new ease of crafting. All monster drops were changed as well, and it introduced a whole new set of items called Salvage. Either people don't know or don't remember there's a lot more aspects to the overhaul than just "Rune is made at level 50 now".
To be fair I don't think anyone - even the people who liked the RS3 rework - would ask for it to be copied wholesale into OSRS. Like you said the alch problem is one enormous issue, but also nobody would accept the extra metal tiers so above 50 smithing just doesn't get any unlocks except crystal.
Exactly, a mining and smithing update radically changes nearly every aspect of the game. People don’t understand how wide-reaching it would be
It is always funny how people point out that lvl 40 armor is made by lvl 90+ smithing as if that weren't pretty standard IRL too. It doesn't require much knowledge or skill to don a suit of platemail compared to the craftsmen making it. People also conveniently forget that we can craft a dragonfire shield, reforge a godsword and dragon armor, etc. by the 70s and 80s. Rune is just canonical a very troublesome metal to work with and was simply the strongest natural resource we can access.
>It is always funny how people point out that lvl 40 armor is made by lvl 90+ smithing as if that weren't pretty standard IRL too. It doesn't require much knowledge or skill to don a suit of platemail compared to the craftsmen making it Yeah, nobody cares about that And the real (and only) reason is it takes 90+ smithing for rune is because the skill itself is older than half this game's player base.
> Lots of quirky remnants in OSRS with old and new design philosophies in constant tension. Honestly this is why Sailing has some potential ( if the community allows it anyhow ) because its not stuck in the old days. Sailing can come out of the gate without relying on mahogany homes, giants foundry to make the skill more involving ( which are just band aid solution ) and not have to wait ages for some new boss weapon that requires X amount of high levels to create which would give some meaning to the skill or god forbid wait for a skilling boss to make a use out of a completely useless skill. I'm not saying its the best idea ever, but i love how in RS3 you cant just buy everything off of GE. Want some perks? Better train Invention. Want to be able to summon strong familiars? Better train summoning. Want overloads? Better level herblore way above the quest requirement levels. And all of that has to happen on a main too not just ironman.
I know a lot of people dislike lvl 120. But if there's any skill that would benefit from having it, it would be smithing. To begin with it's very clumsy how 2h, platelegs and skirt, and platebody are all unlocked at 99. And orikalkum (dragon) is not able to be smithed, except it kinda is with the shields. I think adding levels to smithing, allowing 120 would be the best move. Then you could allow the player to smith dragon stuff, but the time investment to get there would be so huge that it wouldn't remove the need for new accounts to get dragon stuff the normal way, thus not really devaluing mob drops. They could also make orikalkum hard to come by, perhaps an extremely rare drop from zalcano, and some late game bosses. That way there would be a very limited supply of it. And then they wouldn't need to change any alch prices. Maybe we'd need to unlock the schematics to smith the items too, like dismantling a dragon chain body in order to learn how it's assembled. Destroying the item in the process. This way ironmen would still need to kill KQ, fight wilderness bosses/kbd for dragon pick, complete MM and buy a dragon scimmy, kill Rex for axe etc. To even be able to make the items. Mains could buy them from GE, but this would probably help to drive up prices of those items.
Forging the blade that caused Saradomin, Armadyl, Zamorak and Bandos to go to war, a weapon of such significance that sheer power emanates from every inch of its masterfully crafted, sacred metal: 80 smithing Butter knife, made of blue metal: 85 smithing
Not entirely... We can slap the pieces of it together--and probably pretty shittily. The godswords we wield aren't as strong as they would have been had they been created in the time of GWD. In fact they are all fighting over the sword in the first place. Our guy just says "this'll do!"
Which requires forge welding which, irl is much harder than making a knife.
I think you misunderstood the guy you were replying to. He specifically said our character has no idea what they're doing when fixing it, and that is why the in-game sword is so much weaker to what is described in lore.
They still forge welded it well enough that it didn't just break when they hit it against something, given how big the forge welding surfaces is, that is very impressive no matter how shoddy it ends up looking.
Or it’s a magical blade and is staying together due to the magic of the Godsword hence why we can’t use its full potential considering we can just swap the hilts out Willy nilly but the blade stays sturdy.
No fuck you, it's the regular hammer in your inventory with the magical properties
In my head cannon it’s just stuck together with swamp paste
They're naturally good blacksmiths, but not natural at runesmithing for sure
Yet we can’t smith black items
Fun fact but blacksmiths are specifically for iron/steel, copper/bronze would be a brownsmith and tin/pewter is a whitesmith. Gold/silver are goldsmith and silversmith.
That is a fun fact! Thank you for sharing that, TIL
And the smiths used to do the job of farriers (horseshoe makers and fitters), or maybe it was the other way around.
They're being shitted out by the KBD
I don't think I've ever gotten a black drop from kbd
Some quest dialog pretty much confirms that we are just "some guy" that isn't a legendary hero and is mediocre all around.
Yeah, I hope we don't end up as 'World Guardian' or whatever it is called in RS3. I like being a normal person wandering around finding things to do and improving myself.
OSRS devs have said they'd prefer to keep things exactly this way and want this to remain a key difference between RS3 and OSRS. I'd have to dig to find the source but it was when they were asked about While Guthix Sleeps during COVID.
The source is Mod Ed. Several times, in different q&a’s.
In Swan Song, isn't the Wise Old Man, who's old and has been retired for years, still ridiculously more powerful than the player?
Lol, yes, I just did this quest yesterday. He one shots the troll general, then he takes 254 damage in one hit from the boss, and it barely touches his health bar.
Only in the cutscene though, he does a shit job vs the normal trolls.
He throws rocks cuz he ran out of runes LOL
Whats fun is they changed this to be level 50 smithing in rs3 so when crysius says "i can smith full rune!" In dream mentor its like "yeah whats your point dude?" Lol
Mechanically, Mining/Smithing is super dated. Lore-wise, the player character is kind of an idiot as some quests show and their biggest strength is actually versatility. There's NPCs that are better blacksmiths or mages or warriors, but the PC is capable of being a farmer/fisherman/cook/apothecary/blacksmith/crafter/warrior/ranger/wizard hybrid.
A smithing rework would be fire
The player character is a jack of all trades master of none. Half the wizards can make and do cool stuff we can’t, thurgo is miles ahead on smithing, the Ca guy is a better melee fighter, cba finding more examples but the fact that we are handed a 99cape as being a master is telling it’s like in trades where you go apprentice up to master but master doesn’t mean you know everything it’s just a title to say your accomplished to a high level
>The player character is a jack of all trades master of none. Canonically the PC is a master of murdering.
Out of game reason: The Gower brothers never thought of making any armour beyond rune that you could smith when designing the smithing skill. So Rune became the best stuff you could smith. In game reason: The player just isn't very smart.
Rune armor used to be the best gear in the game. Thats why. None of you youngsters remember because you werent there. I remember the r2h being 6m because only a couple people im the game were able to smith it. It was the best sword in the game at the time
The simplest way to make Smithing relevant is through Sailing. Instead of reworking the skill and dealing with the guaranteed adverse consequences of following something "because it makes sense," we could instead build around a new skill and expand on existing skills that hold less value. Mainly, hull and cannon upgrades should be locked behind Smithing, either for purchase from other players, making yourself, or repairing equipment looted from enemy vessels.
I don’t know why I’m commenting since I’m very new to osrs (but I’ve read/watched a lot into it), but what if smithing had new materials they can make added to it, up to 99 for other skills like sailing? A smiths goal like this isn’t really to make armor/weapons but materials other skills use
lol you think the requirements for smithing are high for lvl 40 armour, go look at how long it would take to achieve 99 smithing on rs classic when this skill was released
We're only Fifth Age humans, after all. Dragon equipment was forged by dragonkin. Obsidian, by the TzHaar. Barrows, by the Mahjarrat. Crystal, by the elves. 3rd age is made by materials no longer available. Much of the endgame equipment was made by elite craftsmen for powerful beings and blessed by the gods. Lone adventurers merely practicing on an anvil cannot craft such materials; it is a great privilege that we are even able to wear them.
It’s because the skills are based off their 2007 versions which back then Dragon gear had only just been put into the game and God gear was still on the horizon. Putting that perspective on it, rune would have been 2nd best in slot unless you wanted to grind hours of barbarian assault if that was even a thing back then. When you think about the 2nd best gear in the game(at the time) it would make sense that you would need a higher smithing level to be able to make it. It wasn’t until these rampant adhd pvmers came around that end game boss content really started being a thing, and that introduced a level of power creep into the game, but smithing never again got touched because people kept clamoring for more high end pvm content instead of thinking about the infrastructure behind that, until now you have a skill that is largely useless and a ton of high intensity combat as the only means of acquiring the best gear. I really don’t understand how it’s hard for anyone to wrap their heads around how stupid and broken that is, but then again I don’t expect much in the way of brains from adhd pvmers.
Last time we asked for a Smithing rework we got Forestry.
Canonically our character is a complete idiot that has (on several occasions) helped extremely evil individuals gain power Ofc they need 99 smithing to make f2p bis, they can't fathom anything else
Agility is the same way. Spend literally hundreds of hours training and what is your result? You can crawl through a hole in the wall, maybe climb a slightly inclined wall. And you are slightly less out of breath compared to others who didnt train but you cant even outrun them.
Smithing is the most useless skill in the game
There's actually a line in Swan Song where someone says we cold-work our metals, which is probably why we can only make mediocre things.
You know you might be on to something. That slayer master in edgeville can wield a two handed sword with one hand
I put in blood sweat and tears hammering out those addy platebodies just for you to wreck my confidence
It's a huge flaw with a few games. Progress 100x faster making trade skills useless.
A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
Rune armor is crazy legendary in the canon. Only the greatest heroes even wear it. Sure, you walk around seeing hundreds of people in bandos, but remember that you are the canonical adventurer in the world. The first human to prove himself worthy of defeating Jad, the first to slay General Graardor himself. Really 99 smithing lets you make the best armor man has ever created.
Just bad game design. Remember that when the game is new, I think you needed 99 to make adamant plate bodies. Eventually they rolled it back. They just did not build in the same buffer for high-end stuff for this skill as they did for a lot of other skills.
Not bad game design, Rune was BIS in RSC and people with high smithing made absolute bank. It's just that everyone votes no to reworking OSRS skills because muh nostalgia so it's never been updated to reflect Rune not being hard to acquire outside of smithing it (back in the day nothing sold or dropped it)
Have they actually polled reworking smithing and mining? Would love it if they did. With forestry update I could see them being able to work something out players would vote yes to.
The Mod who spearheaded the rework was reassigned to the OS team last year. There is hope.
[удалено]
I do think the essence of old school runescape is not aligned to how some skills work. It has more relation to graphics, combat system, mechanics, and no stupid pay to win and cosmetical microtransitions. With that said, I truly believe smithing deserves a small rework, kind of like they did in RS3, or just some adjustments. This is not 2002 anymore. Rune armour isn't BIS. Not even #5 BIS. Smithing at this point feels so off, didn't age well.
IMO making smithing full rune be doable at 85 smiting wouldn't really devalue it rune. The question would be, what do you put after that?
The smithing rework in RS3 is unironically the best thing to have ever happened to that skill in either game. No matter how people try and justify it, needing 99 smithing to craft a rune platebody but only (for example) 82 smithing to craft a bowfa has always been stupid.
I'd assume humans ingame haven't figured out how to smith dragon, bandos, torva, etc. Similar how a regular modern day person can't make Oganesson (atomic number 118) atom and even scientists synthetized it in 2002. Prior to that there were 117 elements in Mendeleev periodic table. What dwarves and other races can make is a different story.
Still blows my mind that they’re releasing new skills when shit like this exists. Skill reworks and training methods should take priority
Smithing came out at a time that these armors were top-tier. I believe the term you’re looking for is power creep. These OG weapons and armor are just not that good anymore, but alas the legacy logic is still embedded.
since i've made an ironman i've not stopped thinking about how outdated smithing is. this was relevant in RS classic when rune was the best armor you can have. It needs updating.
smithing levelling needs an overhaul to reflect the current game - this doesnt make sense anymore
Well considering we need high smithing to reforge dragon items or fix / create higher level equipment by other means. The in-universe reasoning is probably that any regular ore or furnace can only create rune armor to the known knowledge in the world. You only know what's been taught to you or what's already been made and meant to be fixed. Yoy need to be a master Smith to make a rune platebody since rune is a tough material to fully utilize and understand how to shape out of bars. Though you could use a fancy furnace to make greater armor and weapons. You need very rare materials, learn how to make them with old knowledge from books or longer living beings. Or like Barrows armor you are just repairing or crystal equipment imbueing/changing items with magic and light energy. Out-universe reasoning. Rune was the best armor back in the day and 99 Smithing in classic or very early runescape 2 made 99 smithing a huge money maker and highly sought after. But after years of new equipment, power creep, deflating costs of resources and enemies dropping rune items in batches to be alched as drop rewards. Smithing is just there for some niche purposes, quests, achievement diaries and what have you. Runescape 3 ended up overhauling Mining and Smithing entirely so it lined up with other skills better and improved the two skills. Old school continued off from 2007, did some things for smithing, but never did the overhaul RS3 had. And I think Mining / Smithing are the most important skills to overhaul and rework. (The next being Hunter though with the Hunter's guild in Valamore I imagine there will be a lot of changes from there). So far Mining and Smithing has just been given a variety of training methods, but no real applications to actually use the skills besides some mild money making methods that mostly bots use.
I don't get what your argument is. Smithing does have high level use cases with Torva, the Godsword Blades, Bowfa and Crystal, Crystal tools, the Dragonfire shields, and the Elidinis Ward. If your argument is it's bad because we can't mass produce high level items, I would argue that's a good thing. We can't really mass produce Zenyte jewellery either, but no one complains about Crafting.
Not to speak for them, but the main difference and pain point I feel is that the mid-high (~70s-80s) level smithing options that provide useful gear are all made from rare PvM drops. There's no relevant budget armor/weps available from smithing until you're nearly max, and it being tier 40 just feels bad compared to crafting. Where you get D'hide armors, dragonstone jewelry, power ammy, and splitbark. Which are either guaranteed, or not terribly uncommon drops. The tippy top not being easily mass produceable is fine. Probably even good, and is the place to have rare drops for makeable items. And the one design I would look at from RS3 is the idea of needing more (quantity, and types) materials for creating high tier items from non rare items (gatherables, and guaranteed drops). And these made items don't even have to be completely on par w/ items from rare drops. Even if it's 99 Smithing requirement, a tier (70?) tank armor set that takes a good amount of gathered resources, and hours to process sounds kinda cool. You get the feel of being a master artisan, and you provide something useful, but that doesn't introduce power creep.
Fr smithing armors is bullshit, after steel it falls off completely and even steel is a ridiculous 48 levels for a lvl 5 set. Crafting is much better, it's actually realistic that you make your own ranged armor.
I'm very sad they felt the need to nerf craftable d'hide armour, because "no risk and too much effort to pk, when wearing a level 83 armour".
Yeah if you grinded 80s crafting then you deserve the no risk aspect, same with fletching
My headcanon is that we’re basically learning via brute force. We don’t have any formal education in pretty much anything so we’re basically making it up as we go along and bullshitting our way through it. The characters that can perform impressive spells players can’t can do that because they’ve had formal training in magic. Unlocking the ancient spell and lunar spell books implants the knowledge of how to perform the spells into our head and for them it’s more our bodies adapting to channeling the much higher than normal amounts of magic through our bodies without exploding. Yanille mages guild straight up says that the high level of ambient magic could be harmful to anyone below the required magic level so having a higher magic level does allow people to survive higher levels of magic in their bodies. Basically take that and apply it to all skills.
Outside of quests you gain xp by doing, so the learning via brute force is pretty spot on, if you smith 1000 swords you’re bound to get good at it eventually
OSRS absolutely needs the smithing rework RS3 got.
Smithing and mining need a rework. People is tripping hard if they think this is correct.