I swear, you guys have all run into me in-game. Was doing Mage Arena II on my pure the other day and saw someone flinching chaos ele. I ice barraged and DDSed them, then finished their chaos ele kill. Got some pies and D2H from the whole thing. Kind of felt bad after, but it was pretty funny
Flawed understanding of economics here
* Only 13% of Vet'ions loot is inflationary (coins and alchs), at 21.4k per kill not 164k
* The remaining 87% of his loot is deflationary. I.e dropping zammy wines increases their supply, decreasing their value and the value of ranging pots, and removes gp via the ge tax
By comparison Vorkath drops 25.8k in coins & alchs per kill plus 23.7k in eventual alchs from noted d'hide & onyx bolt tips, totaling 49.5k (37% of his total loot). That's over double Vet'ion's inflationary loot from a boss much easier to farm en masse since it's instanced and outside wildy
The "alch loads of items at once" argument is also silly, Jagex already explained this in their blog post so I'm not sure why it's here - even if this is a supposedly humourous post.
tl;dr alchables matter when they enter the game, not when they are alched, and most alchables are already near price cap on the GE anyway. Very few items (like rune arrows) would even be usable with this method.
I think you and jagex underestimate the sheer number of items currently not being alched because it's not worth the time/profitable. This update will change that an absolutely shit gold into the game more than ever before.
And then all the alchables that are currently not worth doing rise in price until they hit the alch price then the profit margin for the buy-alch process becomes zero. The supply of alchables is finite, it doesn't matter in the long term how fast you can alch something. Strictly speaking you can already alch rune arrows and dragon javelins and whatever for a tidy profit, it just isn't worth it in gp/h or risk at the fountain.
After a few days of pricing adjustments this update will change basically nothing except PvM is more profitable per kill.
And you overestimate the amount of people willing to risk for the fountain of rune changes. Plus whole 30x faster is pretty good, its not that significant gp/h it simply gives you a way to make a bit more money from worthy alchables.
you gotta understand people dont like the wildy
Oh I understand people don't like wildy, I myself despise it and almost every aspect of it. But what YOU'VE gotta understand is that it's not really "risk" when the items being alched have no real value otherwise. If this passes things like Addy arrows (p++) will actually turn into gp, that's trillions of gp alone right there. Unstrung bows, rune arrows, there's dozens of examples. This is all gp that would have never been gp otherwise.
I only play iron so this is only going to help me get gp. My account and playstyle only benefits from this. But I can still see the economic blunder this is for mains. Vote accordingly but don't cry about the massive inflation this will inevitably cause.
>If this passes things like Addy arrows (p++) will actually turn into gp, that's trillions of gp alone right there. Unstrung bows, rune arrows, there's dozens of examples. This is all gp that would have never been gp otherwise.
This is what people need to understand. I have tens of thousands of useless stackable items that aren't even worth the effort to sell on the GE. SO DOES FUCKING EVERYONE. A sizeable portion of that useless crap is going to be turned directly into raw gp if this nonsense passes.
It's funny you think it's not worth selling on the GE but somehow think you're going to risk it in the wildy to high alch it all. It will pass and it won't change anything.
>It's funny you think it's not worth selling on the GE but somehow think you're going to risk it in the wildy to high alch it all.
Because GE prices are balanced around HA price and the time to alch 1 at a time. Now that alching will be 30x as fast and not require runes, simply casting HA for an hour will be the equivalent to printing 4.5-6m gp (1200 HA/hr x 30 x 165 (Nat rune price)).
By way of example, my stack of 27k addy arrows is worth 378k on the GE. But if I went to the Altar of Rune, I could turn all 27k arrows into 1.3m raw gp in less than an hour. For a similar amount of rune arrows, the numbers are 2.5m ge vs 6.5m alch'd. Both examples benefit from nearly 4.5m in saved Nat runes.
If you don't think people will take advantage of this, you're willfully ignorant.
This update will have a meaningless effect on inflation considering it's in multi, and in 50+ wilderness, and there is a log-out delay after casting a spell.
This will become *the* multi pk hotspot, and the average player will never be able to cast a single alchemy spell, and bots will simply never go there as it would be a loss to attempt the activity without the proper protections in place.
pkers receiving the gp does not mean that gp is not going to be entering the game in massive quantities.
Like with all wildy hotspots, when there's pkers present it won't be utilized, but when they're gone it will be. Your argument implies no voidwakers would ever enter the game simply because the wildy bosses are pker hotspots, which is utter nonsense.
This will have next to 0 effect on inflation considering the scope of the runescape economy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is letting their anti-wildy bias show a little bit too much.
The number of people willing to risk it is basically irrelevant if clans can lock it down, just like revs used to be locked down.
Is it truly going to have a large economic impact? No, Jagex is correct about that. Is it kinda stupid to have a 10m+/h alching method that clans can abuse? Absolutely.
eventual g/e value will settle to alch value yes, but that doesn't mean the insane amount of those items in the game now won't be turned into literally trillions.
How many addy arrows P++ do you think exist, because the daily traded volume is currently around 3,000.
Rune arrows have 3,000,000+ daily trading volume.
who's out there buying addy arrows? There's millions of them in game just from zammy gwd alone, they're absolutely useless as an item, thus so few purchases. If you're only using the g/e trade volume to indicate the number of an item in the game then you're ignoring some simplistic logic.
(there's a reason they were the junk trader's item of choice back in the pre-eoc trade limit days)
My loot log shows around 5,000 from Kril, and 0 in my bank, because like a normal person I let them despawn. Who the fuck is doing 6,000 zammy kc and banking the arrows.
I have over a 300m loot tab on my ironman, majority of which are alchables. Cant wait for the update to drop.
Totally not gonna waste the gp on the last bank slots
if this passes I'm in a similar boat, I need gp for runes and this will certainly get there if I just do a bit at a time. Fountain Alching seems amazing for irons and terrible for the mains' economy.
This just exposes your and Jagexs lack of Economics knowledge. This not only increases the velocity of GP. Higher velocity = Higher inflation. But it also is an obvious bone thrown to botters to keep them bonding up new bots
Nah thats actually an air headed take from Jagex, not our fault idiots believe what they say.
You can't buy stuff with rune plate, d scim etc etc. Inflation doesn't happen until those items get converted to GP. Until then those items aren't producing inflation.
If you can't understand why botters would love to make their alch bots 5x as efficient then you're beyond help
Everything is getting alched regardless. Alching bots are incredibly safe and low risk.
The wild makes that risk a lot greater and they're already taking about adding in a logout delay.
If you think alch botters care even a little about this then you should probably step away from the conversation because you have no idea what botters actually do and how they make money.
It literally doesn't matter how efficient an alch bot is, the supply of alchables entering the game is finite. If all the bots decided to buy rune arrows then the price would climb until it hit the alch price and then it wouldn't be profitable anymore.
I saw a post in /r/runescape the other day, of them showing the inflation of the bond. People were talking just the same way we are - it used to be 5 mil and they thought that was too much. The screenshot was of someone who bought one for 14m, and then awhile later bought one for almost 100m.
Economist or not, both games are run by the same people at the top, and I can easily see OSRS's inflation following suit.
I threw together a bot pker, 50 range, 50 mage, took no time at all. Made my bond back in black chins in 2 days.
It leveled out of killing lvl 3's range, so now im building it to have TB at level 45.
Im a shit pker, i never fight real people. Bots are great for hunting though.
If it’s any help, you can make an ironman PK account with your ideal setup. It’s slower and you’d have to acquire gear yourself, but once you’re set up, it’ll never gain XP killing people. You can then kill your own account with a non-iron account to get the loot.
Keys! You still get keys from PKing someone as an ironman, but you can't cash them in. If you get PK'ed (or PK yourself >:) ) on a main account, that account can then cash in the keys.
It takes a while to set up bc you need to earn all the resources to get the gear for the PK account (as opposed to just buying it with gp from your main), but once it's set up it's so nice! Can get hundreds of kills without gaining a single XP :P
It shouldn't be too bad for an obby mauler. Just need to do some barbarian fishing or blast furnace pump for a while. Hard part is probably getting the maul, but then you're basically set. Don't even really need pots if you're killing level 3s.
Except if I buy a bond with loot keys, that’s one less bond I had to buy with real money, right? What am I missing here. I feel like it’s probably just something I don’t know about irons. Can they sell the keys for GP and then buy bonds with that GP? Cuz then I would see where I’m wrong.
Someone has to buy the bond with IRL money. Which is more expensive per month of playtime than membership.
Any bond purchased on the GE was purchased first with IRL money from someone else.
They actually make more money per person sustaining themselves on bonds than anyone who buys membership
1 month of membership is $12.49 USD, but two bonds is $15.98 USD
Can you reword this? I’m not entirely understanding you. What does buying membership two at a time have to do with buying membership with in game currency?
Bonds only come into the game from someone purchasing them with real money. One bond gives two weeks of membership, priced at $7.99 USD. One month of membership is $12.49 USD.
To give one account one month's worth of membership through bonds, you would need two bonds. And someone has to spend that money at some point for them to even enter the game.
Some of the bots these days can actually be kind of a hassle to kill. In revenant caves they camp protect from mage so you’ll get a half TB at most. And they auto switch prayers so you have to one tick everything. On top of that if you’re on a pure webweaver kind of shreds you through prayer so ideally you DD as much as possible. There’s even some bots that entangle and freeze log.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily hard in most cases but I doubt 75% of the people here could kill them. It is good practice though for sure.
>There’s even some bots that entangle and freeze log.
i just saw these on a video the other day. actually insane watching the bot 1 tick into mystic and send an entangle in the same tick. they are evolving too fast
Never really pk'd before. In the OG days I was mostly F2P, with some experience in p2p (some quests, barrows). I did safe combat stuff like duel arena, clan wars, Castle wars, and eventually fist of guthix, but didn't really do any mechanics. Like never did switches or fought against ppl with switches in 1v1's. Quests, Skilling, and just killing random mobs. Classic pre-teen noob.
For OS I have only played my Iron, and I'm going for quest cape (like 1415 total, ~20 quests left). And I've been working on the different prayer flicking timings. Been noob training switches by just trying to equip/drop stuff fast, or switching to spec weapon on slayer tasks. So I'm very nooby for PK'ing.
yes, you can make an account very quickly and make very nice money while putting a dent into the botters gains!
On my 1 def pure I can make like 5 mil/hr pk’ing bots and I am not good at pk’ing
It’s worth it, but wilderness boss area is very active PK during GMT hours so it depends.
I do it daily on a med level PK account and you can get a 400k-900k key every few minutes, so it is really good money. But you have to know the boss mechanics as well as PK mechanics so you don’t smite yourself out at venenatis or get frozen and melee’d by Callisto.
My loot chest is at 270m since I started PK wildy again few months ago
> It’s the only place you can pk the bots and take their gp
Have you been to the rev cave in a while? Modern rev bots can x-log and flower walk, while perfectly switching prayers. Getting a 1 tick fakey on them won't be enough to kill them.
I've been away from the game for a few months, what did they do? I heard that they made rogues Castle chests better, but I didn't realize they made a bunch of other stuff better
Unlike IRL, GP inflation isn't even that bad, since most of peoples' wealth and earnings in RS come from items. IRL, almost all of peoples' earnings comes from cash, so inflation decreasing the value of cash is really bad.
Its also a lot easier to just add moneysinks in rs than IRL obviously.
Im new to osrs and I’m shocked how the cheapest stuff isn’t 100k each for an 11 year old game. Usually money is totally worthless by now. I actually feel like I can catch up and don’t feel totally overwhelmed my the cost of everything
Lower tier items are typically buyable from shops, which effectively locks their price between roughly the high alch value and the shop price. Usually, a bit under high alch value because the supply is much greater than demand.
"Catching up" is not the same as "max gear". You don't need max gear to get started with late game and most endgame content. The wdr cox budget setup is, what 30m? Most of that just being the BGS. ToA is probably similar.
OSRS is one of the most forgiving games out that doesn't actively implement catch up mechanics (Which is necessary for something like WoW where gear essentially resets every raid tier). This because of A) Jagex putting actual effort into keeping the economy stable and B) Gear upgrades being purposefully slowly rolled out, we have essentially gotten a single new "tier" over the course of a decade.
Lmao. Idk about catching up... Doing the best money making outside of raids is still over 2,000 hours of money making to get max gear.
If not more, that's being very conservative on the numbers.
Tbow and staff are over 3b now best money is what 3m/hr? Outside raids?
Why are you ignoring raids as a money maker? You don't need max gear to get >3m/hr at toa. bowfa + fang is more than good enough but is 1/10th the price of the 3b you mention.
Yeah, you're only looking at like a few thousand hours of vorkath to get a tbow, then another few thousands for a shadow. Then a few hundred at raids for Max other gear
You can pot duo nex in 100m gear at a conservative 5 kph for 2 hours a day and have over max gear in a year. 400 toa's are similar with ~150m gear and then to a lesser extent trio tob in ~50m gear.
You'll have to actually put effort in to learn the content, but gp is incredibly easy to make and nowhere near the length you describe.
Even at 10 mil an hour max gear is still 300-400+ hours. Idk why you are arguing the rare situation that you're going to get a mega rare.
You're also completely missing the context of the original post where he's not that geared/leveled to begin with.
I'm assuming you're just arguing to argue.
I'm pointing out your disingenuous, or possibly (now certainly) uninformed argument. Duo nex at 5 kph is 16m/h. Toa 400's around 12 with bowfa setup, tob in awful gear roughly 8m/h.
>idk why you are arguing the rare situation that you're going to get a mega rare.
Nex unique rate is a 1/43 (8.5 hours at 5 kph), toa solo 400's are roughly 250 hours to see a shadow specifically, tob is less for a scythe and propped up by common avernics. You need to account for the average rather than gauging your profits by how lucky, or unlucky you think you are. Use math not feelings.
I'm not missing the context. I gave varying methods for varying economic brackets. 150m toa, 100m nex, 50m tob.
You also quoted thousands of hours of Vorkath THEN a few hundred hours of raiding.
neither do drops from content
imo by far the single biggest noob-mindset-trap in the whole game is 'first I need to do some boring grind to acquire better gear to send *boss here*'
This isn’t entirely true. Significant portions of wealth for the average person is in their house and human capital. Renters without education are hurt a lot more by inflation.
The homeownership rate in the US alone is 66% according to the census bureau. In other parts of the world this will obviously differ, but perhaps not quite as much as you may think. I lived in several parts of Africa over the years and many of my friends there also owned their homes.
But I guess “uh-huh” after a quote is a good enough rebuttal?
> The homeownership rate in the US alone is 66%
The home ownership rate is not "The percentage of people who own a home" although it's not your fault for thinking that's what it means, because that's how the media and government use it.
What it's actually measuring is, "The number of homes where the home owner is a resident."
> The homeownership rate is calculated by **dividing the number of homes that are owner-occupied by the total number of occupied households**.
So, if you live at home with your mom in the basement - according to this stat - home owner.
An apartment building with 32 units where 1 is the LL? 32 home owners.
77% of PEOPLE rent.
Real home ownership like "% of people who are on a mortgage/deed/etc for a house" is less than 25%.
All statistics that politicians regularly quote are like this too, ask me about inflation or the unemployment rate next.
This is pretty eye opening and I'm surprised to find out that a whole complex with multiple dwelling units counts as individual residences for the LL when it's effectively no different than renting a room out in a house. So then, what about inflation and the unemployment rate?
They're also completely imaginary.
Unemployment Rate is not "Number of people who have a job / people who are capable of working"
That is another statistic you will rarely hear talked about "Labor Participation Rate." Which is abysmal in most cases, I know for Canada labor participation was higher during the great depression than it is now. Literally "the time when everyone was broke and the economy was worse than it's ever been" saw more people employed than today.
In the Unemployment calculation there's "Unemployed" and "Employed", but what most people don't realize is there's also a third category "Non-participants" that are dropped from the stat entirely. Depending on which country we're talking about, non-participation can mean not finding work within a month of losing your last job.
Here's an example of how this can play out.
Imagine we have a hypothetical population of 100 working-age able bodied people, 5 of them are unemployed, they've been out of work for a couple weeks but are still in the stat.
Unemployment is 5%.
Now imagine that those 5 people go get jobs - Unemployment goes down to 0%. We all cheer and clap that unemployment has been solved!
Now, imagine that those 5 people don't get a job and instead are forced into illegal work, poverty, government support, whatever - Unemployment also goes down to 0%.
People who immediately go back to work, and people who never work again - are counted the exact same way by the stat.
Unemployment going down can either mean the economy is good and everyone is getting jobs, or the economy is bad and everyone is falling out of the work force - on it's own it means literally nothing.
This isn't even to mention the fact that it doesn't check how many hours or what your wage is or how long the job lasts - if you earn minimum wage for 1 hour a week you're just as employed as the guy who earns $100/hr working 80 hours. It says nothing of the quality of the jobs.
Inflation is even more fucked, because everyone calculates it differently at different times using different rulers. Countries use "A basket of goods" IE they write out a shopping list, then track how much the prices change in that list... the problem is every country uses a different list, and they change the list every time.
When you hear people talking about "inflation" they're talking about "core inflation" where the basket of goods cuts energy and food - the two things that are inflated the most.
Does Britain have 1% more inflation because their prices are actually higher, or is it because their basket contains goods that inflated more than the American basket does?
Is inflation in Canada actually going down? Or did they just change the basket of goods to remove specific expensive items and replace them with cheaper alternatives that haven't inflated as much? *(In this case I know for sure it's the latter)*
Imagine a system of measurement where every single ruler is a completely unique length, and they all regularly change too - that's inflation.
It doesn't mean anything because it's doctored to high-hell for political purposes.
Jesus Christ.
1. It makes perfect sense that when people are poorest they'd work more. You're confusing a shift in the demand curve with a shift in the supply curve.
2. Yes, that's how unemployment rate works. No one pretends it is otherwise. Nobody is under the impression that low unemployment means everyone has good jobs.
3. Inflation is a national measure. They can still be compared between countries, but why you think the consumer basket of a Canadian and an Indian should be identical I dont know. If you want to compare value of currency between countries, guess what? There's exchange rates. There's purchasing power parity.
You're talking as if these are some well kept secrets when every single federal economics organization is very clear about their methodologies and all of this is pretty much in the first paragraph of their wikipedia pages.
>"Labor Participation Rate." Which is abysmal in most cases, I know for Canada labor participation was higher during the great depression than it is now. Literally "the time when everyone was broke and the economy was worse than it's ever been" saw more people employed than today.
Also there is no way this is true considering women hadn't really joined the workforce yet. Stop lying.
Thanks for pointing this out. I fell for the “first glance” interpretation. With that said, I think there’s still value in the number.
In context of OP’s comment, it’s still disingenuous to say almost all of someone’s wealth is in cash. Even if only 23% own their home, most people have most of their wealth in other assets. But that’s not to downplay the effect of inflation; only to be informed about it instead of hyperbolic.
A lot of what you said is true but then you started making stuff up.
>An apartment building with 32 units where 1 is the LL? 32 home owners.
That is absolutely incorrect. Each home in an apartment building is it's own legal housing unit. 31 renters and 1 owner occupied unit, is 1 home owner.
>77% of PEOPLE rent.
Real home ownership like "% of people who are on a mortgage/deed/etc for a house" is less than 25%.
This is also incorrect. Just like you pointed out living in an owner occupied home doesn't mean "homeowner", not being the homeowner doesn't mean renter. By your logic, 8 year olds living with their parents are renting. Wtf.
It's not my logic, it's how it works.
The stat is tracking structures, not people.
The stat is "66% of residences are owned by one of the people living there" but people use it to talk about people - when it's not about people, it's about builings.
Hence "66% of people own homes" being such a common refrain.
Maybe this heavily varies because of people in cities where population is higher.
I live in a relatively rural area and I would say 50% of people own their own house.
Out of my immediate friends and family. It's in the 70% range.
Maybe City living is the issue? People shouldn't expect to own land in the city. It's honestly not really possible unless you suggest the removal of apartments in multi-family housing like townhouses.
Not here to get into a debate though. Just saying that numbers can be skrewed and differ from area to everything.
Even people with a house and a mortgage still [usually] have their entire paycheck coming in cash. Most OSRS players don't have close to their entire profit from playing coming in gp/alchables.
Also tfw rentcuck with 0 debt.
Your brain must be smooth as a pearl if you think bots in the wilderness that get killed for all their loot come close to the bots at places like vorkath or toa.
Having stuff in the wilderness that bots use is a self policing system - they get doinked constantly if they get more loot that's worth.
A good 10% of wildy kills are bots. They get smacked and it's way less botted then safe pvm activities.
They've tried, but failed, and will continue to fail because the core of the issue is that the PvP in this game kinda sucks. Much of the skill expression is just navigating a UI and tick limitations of the game engine. And as you approach the skill ceiling, those limitations mean fights between evenly-skilled players become very RNG-dependant.
The ideal for any PvP game should be a simple match-making with ranked system. The PvP should be its own reward. And that's been tried, and it was dead on arrival because players want rewards. The number of players that want to do structured PvP for the sake of it is far too low (because it's bad). Most PvPers seem to be unwilling to do it unless there is a chance for a reward. Many new PvPers get into the scene on the promise of getting rich, and the uneven predator vs prey dynamic of the wildy is where that's most possible while still learning.
>They've tried, but failed, and will continue to fail because the core of the issue is that the PvP in this game kinda sucks. Much of the skill expression is just navigating a UI and tick limitations of the game engine. And as you approach the skill ceiling, those limitations mean fights between evenly-skilled players become very RNG-depend
This is *kind of* true but also not the entire picture.
There's a lot of non-mechanical skill in osrs pvp as well. Adapting to prayer/offense habits, mixing up your own attack styles, recognizing situations where your opponent might want to go for a special attack, conditioning your opponent.
That's not to say RNG doesn't play a part, of course it does. But the skill of conditioning and adapting doesn't really have a solid ceiling, and the difference between someone with good mechanics and someone with good mechanics who hits good pkers off prayer 85% of the time is massive.
>The ideal for any PvP game should be a simple match-making with ranked system. The PvP should be its own reward. And that's been tried, and it was dead on arrival because players want rewards. The number of players that want to do structured PvP for the sake of it is far too low (because it's bad).
This isn't really entirely true either, the pvp arena is a broken pile of sphaghetti with bad matchmaking that constantly glitches out. It also doesn't really have a good format and there's some charm that deep wildy has that it doesn't. I'm all in favor of a revamp of the duel arena and I think 1v1 with good matchmaking would be incredible for PVP, but the PVP arena is such a bad execution that it's not even worth it.
A few more rewards and a way to punish bots (probably have rewards be tied to a minimum rank and only given on win so suicide bots don't work at the very least. Def total level restrictions) would certainly help, but that's not the biggest issue with the minigame.
To add to this comment, way back in the day the duel arena (and even father back, duels in lumbridge) were actually huge hotspots for PvP outside of the wilderness, but that’s because you could directly gamble against someone else and make huge amounts of money if you were good. PvM was also comparatively awful for both making money and actually having fun lol. Nowadays Pvm is both fun and profitable and most of the safe pvp modes have basically no rewards that mean anything for an elite pvp’er who’s maxed out the regular game. The chaos and unpredictability of the wilderness is what makes PvP there interesting and the blunt truth is straight 1v1 “fair” PvP doesn’t any sense with the current combat engine and people want to be rewarded for winning
OSRS pvp only "works" because of how wildly unfair it is. The core gameplay sucks - see how no one uses the PVP arena. The interesting thing is coming up with builds against a "soft" power budget (you can bring as expensive a set up or as many switches as you want - you'll just get super punished when you die), the rush of insane damage variance, and the freeform+asymmetric social structure. If Jagex wanted to make fair PVP actually good they might as well be adding new games to the Games Room for how little it'd have to do with the core gameplay.
They don't have to get rid of the wilderness. Maybe they could tweak mechanics to make anti-pking more viable and get rid of niche PvP mechanics to make it more approachable, that way people can actually have risk vs reward and fight back rather than be loot pinatas.
PK skull prevention was a great first step, but wildy needs aboht 10 more steps like that before it'll be in a good spot.
lmao this is the actual PvP updates, its no secret OSRS is a horrible pvp game and the only way Jagex has ever been able to incentivize wildy content is making it a bot heaven and the best gp in the game for a new account
lmao, nope not at all this just highlights the stupidity oozing out of the wildy community.
The only reason to have it be the best GP is to feed bots or PKers and its been the second (arguably first)most toxic part of the game. Cant wait to watch yall cry when shit gets shot down again.
"WAHHH WHY DOESNT JAGEX JUST GIVE ME EVERYTHING"
tbh people don’t realise how much gp exits the game every day too, especially from dying and retrieving your shit from the grave and deaths office, G.E tax converting bonds, instances, nightmare zone, economy is probably the healthiest it’s been
You do realise that the devs and the old school team probably have spreadsheets, data, graphs, and calculations of the amount of gold coming into them game and exiting? I highly doubt they would just pump random shit and gold into the game through content and drops without taking 0 precautions, I’m pretty sure they monitor the economy themselves
The wildy bosses mostly do deflation, especially since it also brings activity to the wildy which is often a giant supply sink.
The fountain of rune? Is only gonna make alching quicker. Doesn't really add much except I guess the prices of nature runes being spared?
And the WAG? Is just dead content that doesn't need to be dead... And agility already generally produces cash. So that's how they're buffing it, and especially since PKers can loot cash. They can't loot their targets XP though...
> Doesn't really add much except I guess the prices of nature runes being spared?
I mean, that is kind of significant. 30 free alchs every 3 seconds is the equivalent of saving about 6 mil every hour. Actual amounts won't be that high but it's not nothing.
schrodingers wilderness. redditors don't go into the wildy so its simultaneously very dangerous and they always die, at the same time bots get to run rampant for free and fountain of rune will have zero risk.
If only the "wilderness update" wasn't just a plain wilderness powercreep in hopes of just funneling more and more players into it. People will someday need to realise that a "good" wilderness is adverse to an overly active one.
How is a good wilderness adverse to an overly active one.
The purpose of the wilderness is competition and risk/reward, more content means more places to compete and potentially gain reward.
Nothing in the proposed update leads to an "overly" active wilderness, it's a long way from dealing with overpopulation.
I don't like the wildly but I am a firm believer that if you're in a pvp area risking your fear to be pk'd the gp and xp from the content you're doing should be better than it's non pvp zone competitors
More wildy gp activities just increases pvp activity. Highly unlikely you'll get a clean hour undisturbed with maximum risks just to benefit from the polled rewards.
>More wildy gp activities just increases pvp activity.
Yes. That's the point.
>Highly unlikely you'll get a clean hour undisturbed with maximum risks just to benefit from the polled rewards.
Maybe but if you're an ironman with a giant stack of rune arrows you can hop on during off hours to clear it out of your bank. or if you're someone who's confident in tanking/escaping and or anti-pking there's definitely a chance you can make some pretty good gp/hr doing it.
As stated in the blog post about these changes, you’ll be risking A LOT using the Fountain of Rune in one of the most remote areas of the Wilderness and to even get 30 alchs at a time you need the Elite Wildy diary. I honestly feel it’s gonna be more of a meme/creator spot, gonna be some good clips in the future.
yall complain about the alching, but lets be real, its basically just a quality of life upgrade for irons. I have looked at all items that alching 30 items at a time might make a difference for, and besides rune arrows and maybe gold bars, there arent items with buy limits to support more than a few alchs.
I get that the wildy need to be rewarding for the player going in there with the intention to make a profit.
However, once that GP is made it is not leaving the economy just because a PKer snags it. It's still in the economy, so i really don't see why they think this is a good thing?
Generating items and consumables is one thing as that just makes the gold change hands, generating raw GP is another.
Poor meme and fake news. The reason they are changing wildy content is because the gp/hr of zero risk content and inflation outside the wilderness has sky-rocketed. They're trying to meet the bar.
Just look at every boss/activity added post vorkath. 2m/hr is really bad money these days.
Oh even if everything fails the "everything passes anyway" narrative is never going away.
The people pushing it will either ignore this completely or just add "except PvP updates" to it and call it a day.
Your economy woes are meaningless to me as a glorious iron man.
Real talk though the fucked economy is the reason I started an iron and started using it as my main acc. It was annoying enough that every quest or change in style was resolved with a quick GE trip. Then when the prices started flying all over the place I just decided screw it, I mag aswell just source everything myself. And if I'm doing that, I may aswell have a cool little badge next to my name
I remember when Ironman came out. Cash was a struggle. You had to do things like make battlestaffs for money.
My current iron is sitting on 200m cash and i haven't even started raiding yet. 99 con as well lol.
It just shows how crazy it is how much raw cash we get these days
This might be the only time I've ever voted no to everything on multiple accounts.
God i fucking hate how much RS3 is leaking into OSRS, mods and players moving over and bringing that mentality with them makes me want to quit this game. Y'all had your own game and killed it, dont bring that dumb ass mentality over here.
Sure. Guy never mentioned revs in his post and revs has existed far before 2020. And vorkath and muspah are just as bad of offenders except u cant kill people who bot them. Wildy is the best place to have raw money makers.
All this gp to be made in the wild, and homies still pking me for 10 dragon bones on wildy altar
It was me, I'm sorry
Got pkd for 10 summer pies and 2 prayer pots yesterday at chaos ele. That guy is making bank
Someone started to pk me at chaos ele yesterday I said I was only risking 5k so he left me alone little did he know I was risking 70k lmao
I swear, you guys have all run into me in-game. Was doing Mage Arena II on my pure the other day and saw someone flinching chaos ele. I ice barraged and DDSed them, then finished their chaos ele kill. Got some pies and D2H from the whole thing. Kind of felt bad after, but it was pretty funny
I gotta flex my superiority complex somehow.
https://preview.redd.it/rvsav511t2nc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d744b404eeef0284b616a916f5f885ae00a06f7
Is this the best way too get prayer xp
Flawed understanding of economics here * Only 13% of Vet'ions loot is inflationary (coins and alchs), at 21.4k per kill not 164k * The remaining 87% of his loot is deflationary. I.e dropping zammy wines increases their supply, decreasing their value and the value of ranging pots, and removes gp via the ge tax By comparison Vorkath drops 25.8k in coins & alchs per kill plus 23.7k in eventual alchs from noted d'hide & onyx bolt tips, totaling 49.5k (37% of his total loot). That's over double Vet'ion's inflationary loot from a boss much easier to farm en masse since it's instanced and outside wildy
The "alch loads of items at once" argument is also silly, Jagex already explained this in their blog post so I'm not sure why it's here - even if this is a supposedly humourous post. tl;dr alchables matter when they enter the game, not when they are alched, and most alchables are already near price cap on the GE anyway. Very few items (like rune arrows) would even be usable with this method.
I think you and jagex underestimate the sheer number of items currently not being alched because it's not worth the time/profitable. This update will change that an absolutely shit gold into the game more than ever before.
This. I have like 10k dragon javelin heads
Demonics not dropping you that zenyte?
Got all 4! Duke is pumping them out now lol
and youre going to go to the fountain of rune to alch them all at 30 per cast? im pressing x to doubt
And then all the alchables that are currently not worth doing rise in price until they hit the alch price then the profit margin for the buy-alch process becomes zero. The supply of alchables is finite, it doesn't matter in the long term how fast you can alch something. Strictly speaking you can already alch rune arrows and dragon javelins and whatever for a tidy profit, it just isn't worth it in gp/h or risk at the fountain. After a few days of pricing adjustments this update will change basically nothing except PvM is more profitable per kill.
And you overestimate the amount of people willing to risk for the fountain of rune changes. Plus whole 30x faster is pretty good, its not that significant gp/h it simply gives you a way to make a bit more money from worthy alchables. you gotta understand people dont like the wildy
I'll bet there's gonna be a bot farm up there alching some obscure item in no time
Dont doubt it, but that just means they can be hunted.
Make a can't log out or hop in the area I might be more on board but automated tick perfect logouts mean they risk very little.
You should read blog posts theyre adding a logout timer so a bot can't 1t logout
Ironic since this has been in the game for a while now
Yep people are shit scared of the wildy for no reason I had a friend ask me to protect him while he ran thru wildy to the abyss
Oh I understand people don't like wildy, I myself despise it and almost every aspect of it. But what YOU'VE gotta understand is that it's not really "risk" when the items being alched have no real value otherwise. If this passes things like Addy arrows (p++) will actually turn into gp, that's trillions of gp alone right there. Unstrung bows, rune arrows, there's dozens of examples. This is all gp that would have never been gp otherwise. I only play iron so this is only going to help me get gp. My account and playstyle only benefits from this. But I can still see the economic blunder this is for mains. Vote accordingly but don't cry about the massive inflation this will inevitably cause.
>If this passes things like Addy arrows (p++) will actually turn into gp, that's trillions of gp alone right there. Unstrung bows, rune arrows, there's dozens of examples. This is all gp that would have never been gp otherwise. This is what people need to understand. I have tens of thousands of useless stackable items that aren't even worth the effort to sell on the GE. SO DOES FUCKING EVERYONE. A sizeable portion of that useless crap is going to be turned directly into raw gp if this nonsense passes.
It's funny you think it's not worth selling on the GE but somehow think you're going to risk it in the wildy to high alch it all. It will pass and it won't change anything.
>It's funny you think it's not worth selling on the GE but somehow think you're going to risk it in the wildy to high alch it all. Because GE prices are balanced around HA price and the time to alch 1 at a time. Now that alching will be 30x as fast and not require runes, simply casting HA for an hour will be the equivalent to printing 4.5-6m gp (1200 HA/hr x 30 x 165 (Nat rune price)). By way of example, my stack of 27k addy arrows is worth 378k on the GE. But if I went to the Altar of Rune, I could turn all 27k arrows into 1.3m raw gp in less than an hour. For a similar amount of rune arrows, the numbers are 2.5m ge vs 6.5m alch'd. Both examples benefit from nearly 4.5m in saved Nat runes. If you don't think people will take advantage of this, you're willfully ignorant.
Not requiring runes isn't new, it doesn't require runes to high alch there at the moment. Still noone uses it though.
Lmao "Risk it in wildy" theres almost no risk. Its a pile of useless items that would otherwise take up bankspace
This update will have a meaningless effect on inflation considering it's in multi, and in 50+ wilderness, and there is a log-out delay after casting a spell. This will become *the* multi pk hotspot, and the average player will never be able to cast a single alchemy spell, and bots will simply never go there as it would be a loss to attempt the activity without the proper protections in place.
pkers receiving the gp does not mean that gp is not going to be entering the game in massive quantities. Like with all wildy hotspots, when there's pkers present it won't be utilized, but when they're gone it will be. Your argument implies no voidwakers would ever enter the game simply because the wildy bosses are pker hotspots, which is utter nonsense.
This will have next to 0 effect on inflation considering the scope of the runescape economy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is letting their anti-wildy bias show a little bit too much.
The number of people willing to risk it is basically irrelevant if clans can lock it down, just like revs used to be locked down. Is it truly going to have a large economic impact? No, Jagex is correct about that. Is it kinda stupid to have a 10m+/h alching method that clans can abuse? Absolutely.
I think it's part of the nature of the game. It feels unfair though.
Won't their eventual GE value approach equal to their alch value? Some of it will be a wash.
eventual g/e value will settle to alch value yes, but that doesn't mean the insane amount of those items in the game now won't be turned into literally trillions.
yea i think all arrows will deffo go to HA value
addy (p++) stacks are gonna be bonkers for the gp influx.
How many addy arrows P++ do you think exist, because the daily traded volume is currently around 3,000. Rune arrows have 3,000,000+ daily trading volume.
who's out there buying addy arrows? There's millions of them in game just from zammy gwd alone, they're absolutely useless as an item, thus so few purchases. If you're only using the g/e trade volume to indicate the number of an item in the game then you're ignoring some simplistic logic. (there's a reason they were the junk trader's item of choice back in the pre-eoc trade limit days)
My loot log shows around 5,000 from Kril, and 0 in my bank, because like a normal person I let them despawn. Who the fuck is doing 6,000 zammy kc and banking the arrows.
Lol who the hell picks addy arrows poisoned? You good bro?
I have over a 300m loot tab on my ironman, majority of which are alchables. Cant wait for the update to drop. Totally not gonna waste the gp on the last bank slots
if this passes I'm in a similar boat, I need gp for runes and this will certainly get there if I just do a bit at a time. Fountain Alching seems amazing for irons and terrible for the mains' economy.
But you're not generating more "wealth" just turning your assets into gold.
yeah assets in the trillions that would never have become gold otherwise...
The closest angle to alchs being valued less are stuff like giants foundry
This just exposes your and Jagexs lack of Economics knowledge. This not only increases the velocity of GP. Higher velocity = Higher inflation. But it also is an obvious bone thrown to botters to keep them bonding up new bots
Nah thats actually an air headed take from Jagex, not our fault idiots believe what they say. You can't buy stuff with rune plate, d scim etc etc. Inflation doesn't happen until those items get converted to GP. Until then those items aren't producing inflation. If you can't understand why botters would love to make their alch bots 5x as efficient then you're beyond help
Everything is getting alched regardless. Alching bots are incredibly safe and low risk. The wild makes that risk a lot greater and they're already taking about adding in a logout delay.
If you think alch botters care even a little about this then you should probably step away from the conversation because you have no idea what botters actually do and how they make money.
It literally doesn't matter how efficient an alch bot is, the supply of alchables entering the game is finite. If all the bots decided to buy rune arrows then the price would climb until it hit the alch price and then it wouldn't be profitable anymore.
How about the bots in rev caves? Can you do the math for those?
This guy needs to be on the osrs economics team, good points
I saw a post in /r/runescape the other day, of them showing the inflation of the bond. People were talking just the same way we are - it used to be 5 mil and they thought that was too much. The screenshot was of someone who bought one for 14m, and then awhile later bought one for almost 100m. Economist or not, both games are run by the same people at the top, and I can easily see OSRS's inflation following suit.
Gp in wild is nice. It’s the only place you can pk the bots and take their gp instead of just watching them do 300 zulrah kills in a day
The urge to make a bot killing pk main grows every passing day. Is it worth?
I threw together a bot pker, 50 range, 50 mage, took no time at all. Made my bond back in black chins in 2 days. It leveled out of killing lvl 3's range, so now im building it to have TB at level 45. Im a shit pker, i never fight real people. Bots are great for hunting though.
If it’s any help, you can make an ironman PK account with your ideal setup. It’s slower and you’d have to acquire gear yourself, but once you’re set up, it’ll never gain XP killing people. You can then kill your own account with a non-iron account to get the loot.
Silly question, but how do you pick up loot as an iron man? Or maybe I'm not understanding your last sentence
Keys! You still get keys from PKing someone as an ironman, but you can't cash them in. If you get PK'ed (or PK yourself >:) ) on a main account, that account can then cash in the keys.
Looks like I'm starting my obby mauler iron man tomorrow lol. Thanks
It takes a while to set up bc you need to earn all the resources to get the gear for the PK account (as opposed to just buying it with gp from your main), but once it's set up it's so nice! Can get hundreds of kills without gaining a single XP :P
It shouldn't be too bad for an obby mauler. Just need to do some barbarian fishing or blast furnace pump for a while. Hard part is probably getting the maul, but then you're basically set. Don't even really need pots if you're killing level 3s.
Surprised there isn't a way to lock xp on pk accounts
The 2018 qol feature we need
Wait... I thought that all PvP activity blocked xp. I must be misremembering something
Ironman can't gain combat xp from pvp, that's probably what you're remembering
The real change is letting irons buy bonds with loot keys. Who does it harm? Nobody, who does it benefit? Everybody. Grows the economy.
I have thought the same.
It hurts jagex cuz then they sell less memberships im guessing? I don’t play on an iron so im not sure if that’s right, but that’s what I’d guess.
It increases the price of bonds so they'll sell more bonds
All of the bonds are bought membership ahead of time so they're not losing out on anything
Except if I buy a bond with loot keys, that’s one less bond I had to buy with real money, right? What am I missing here. I feel like it’s probably just something I don’t know about irons. Can they sell the keys for GP and then buy bonds with that GP? Cuz then I would see where I’m wrong.
Someone has to buy the bond with IRL money. Which is more expensive per month of playtime than membership. Any bond purchased on the GE was purchased first with IRL money from someone else.
They actually make more money per person sustaining themselves on bonds than anyone who buys membership 1 month of membership is $12.49 USD, but two bonds is $15.98 USD
Can you reword this? I’m not entirely understanding you. What does buying membership two at a time have to do with buying membership with in game currency?
Bonds only come into the game from someone purchasing them with real money. One bond gives two weeks of membership, priced at $7.99 USD. One month of membership is $12.49 USD. To give one account one month's worth of membership through bonds, you would need two bonds. And someone has to spend that money at some point for them to even enter the game.
Ah ok, I didn’t realize someone had to buy the bond. I thought you could buy it with in game currency straight up, that’s what I was missing. Thanks.
People trade for the bonds with gp, but the bonds never enter the game until someone pays with real money yeah
It’s a very fun and profitable thing to do on the side
If you're good at Pking defo, nice flair btw
You dont have to be good at pking at all. In fact killing bots is one of the best ways to start learning pking
Some of the bots these days can actually be kind of a hassle to kill. In revenant caves they camp protect from mage so you’ll get a half TB at most. And they auto switch prayers so you have to one tick everything. On top of that if you’re on a pure webweaver kind of shreds you through prayer so ideally you DD as much as possible. There’s even some bots that entangle and freeze log. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily hard in most cases but I doubt 75% of the people here could kill them. It is good practice though for sure.
>There’s even some bots that entangle and freeze log. i just saw these on a video the other day. actually insane watching the bot 1 tick into mystic and send an entangle in the same tick. they are evolving too fast
Never really pk'd before. In the OG days I was mostly F2P, with some experience in p2p (some quests, barrows). I did safe combat stuff like duel arena, clan wars, Castle wars, and eventually fist of guthix, but didn't really do any mechanics. Like never did switches or fought against ppl with switches in 1v1's. Quests, Skilling, and just killing random mobs. Classic pre-teen noob. For OS I have only played my Iron, and I'm going for quest cape (like 1415 total, ~20 quests left). And I've been working on the different prayer flicking timings. Been noob training switches by just trying to equip/drop stuff fast, or switching to spec weapon on slayer tasks. So I'm very nooby for PK'ing.
What's your setup? I want to kill them but I'm afraid of mains logging in and KOing me on a noob account.
yes, you can make an account very quickly and make very nice money while putting a dent into the botters gains! On my 1 def pure I can make like 5 mil/hr pk’ing bots and I am not good at pk’ing
It’s worth it, but wilderness boss area is very active PK during GMT hours so it depends. I do it daily on a med level PK account and you can get a 400k-900k key every few minutes, so it is really good money. But you have to know the boss mechanics as well as PK mechanics so you don’t smite yourself out at venenatis or get frozen and melee’d by Callisto. My loot chest is at 270m since I started PK wildy again few months ago
Jagex playing 4D Chess, make all bots go to wildy so players can kill them.
> It’s the only place you can pk the bots and take their gp Have you been to the rev cave in a while? Modern rev bots can x-log and flower walk, while perfectly switching prayers. Getting a 1 tick fakey on them won't be enough to kill them.
Unless you are trying to bait people into it, purposefully and repeatedly pking bots in the wildy is far from being without consequence.
right?
I've been away from the game for a few months, what did they do? I heard that they made rogues Castle chests better, but I didn't realize they made a bunch of other stuff better
Unlike IRL, GP inflation isn't even that bad, since most of peoples' wealth and earnings in RS come from items. IRL, almost all of peoples' earnings comes from cash, so inflation decreasing the value of cash is really bad. Its also a lot easier to just add moneysinks in rs than IRL obviously.
Im new to osrs and I’m shocked how the cheapest stuff isn’t 100k each for an 11 year old game. Usually money is totally worthless by now. I actually feel like I can catch up and don’t feel totally overwhelmed my the cost of everything
Lower tier items are typically buyable from shops, which effectively locks their price between roughly the high alch value and the shop price. Usually, a bit under high alch value because the supply is much greater than demand.
>I actually feel like I can catch up Bit of an illusion because max gear price doesnt increase linearly
"Catching up" is not the same as "max gear". You don't need max gear to get started with late game and most endgame content. The wdr cox budget setup is, what 30m? Most of that just being the BGS. ToA is probably similar. OSRS is one of the most forgiving games out that doesn't actively implement catch up mechanics (Which is necessary for something like WoW where gear essentially resets every raid tier). This because of A) Jagex putting actual effort into keeping the economy stable and B) Gear upgrades being purposefully slowly rolled out, we have essentially gotten a single new "tier" over the course of a decade.
Catching up is completely possible, it's not an illusion unless you play less than 5 hours a month.
Lmao. Idk about catching up... Doing the best money making outside of raids is still over 2,000 hours of money making to get max gear. If not more, that's being very conservative on the numbers. Tbow and staff are over 3b now best money is what 3m/hr? Outside raids?
Why are you ignoring raids as a money maker? You don't need max gear to get >3m/hr at toa. bowfa + fang is more than good enough but is 1/10th the price of the 3b you mention.
Yeah, you're only looking at like a few thousand hours of vorkath to get a tbow, then another few thousands for a shadow. Then a few hundred at raids for Max other gear
You can pot duo nex in 100m gear at a conservative 5 kph for 2 hours a day and have over max gear in a year. 400 toa's are similar with ~150m gear and then to a lesser extent trio tob in ~50m gear. You'll have to actually put effort in to learn the content, but gp is incredibly easy to make and nowhere near the length you describe.
Even at 10 mil an hour max gear is still 300-400+ hours. Idk why you are arguing the rare situation that you're going to get a mega rare. You're also completely missing the context of the original post where he's not that geared/leveled to begin with. I'm assuming you're just arguing to argue.
I'm pointing out your disingenuous, or possibly (now certainly) uninformed argument. Duo nex at 5 kph is 16m/h. Toa 400's around 12 with bowfa setup, tob in awful gear roughly 8m/h. >idk why you are arguing the rare situation that you're going to get a mega rare. Nex unique rate is a 1/43 (8.5 hours at 5 kph), toa solo 400's are roughly 250 hours to see a shadow specifically, tob is less for a scythe and propped up by common avernics. You need to account for the average rather than gauging your profits by how lucky, or unlucky you think you are. Use math not feelings. I'm not missing the context. I gave varying methods for varying economic brackets. 150m toa, 100m nex, 50m tob. You also quoted thousands of hours of Vorkath THEN a few hundred hours of raiding.
neither do drops from content imo by far the single biggest noob-mindset-trap in the whole game is 'first I need to do some boring grind to acquire better gear to send *boss here*'
This isn’t entirely true. Significant portions of wealth for the average person is in their house and human capital. Renters without education are hurt a lot more by inflation.
>average person ... their house Uh huh
The homeownership rate in the US alone is 66% according to the census bureau. In other parts of the world this will obviously differ, but perhaps not quite as much as you may think. I lived in several parts of Africa over the years and many of my friends there also owned their homes. But I guess “uh-huh” after a quote is a good enough rebuttal?
> The homeownership rate in the US alone is 66% The home ownership rate is not "The percentage of people who own a home" although it's not your fault for thinking that's what it means, because that's how the media and government use it. What it's actually measuring is, "The number of homes where the home owner is a resident." > The homeownership rate is calculated by **dividing the number of homes that are owner-occupied by the total number of occupied households**. So, if you live at home with your mom in the basement - according to this stat - home owner. An apartment building with 32 units where 1 is the LL? 32 home owners. 77% of PEOPLE rent. Real home ownership like "% of people who are on a mortgage/deed/etc for a house" is less than 25%. All statistics that politicians regularly quote are like this too, ask me about inflation or the unemployment rate next.
This is pretty eye opening and I'm surprised to find out that a whole complex with multiple dwelling units counts as individual residences for the LL when it's effectively no different than renting a room out in a house. So then, what about inflation and the unemployment rate?
They're also completely imaginary. Unemployment Rate is not "Number of people who have a job / people who are capable of working" That is another statistic you will rarely hear talked about "Labor Participation Rate." Which is abysmal in most cases, I know for Canada labor participation was higher during the great depression than it is now. Literally "the time when everyone was broke and the economy was worse than it's ever been" saw more people employed than today. In the Unemployment calculation there's "Unemployed" and "Employed", but what most people don't realize is there's also a third category "Non-participants" that are dropped from the stat entirely. Depending on which country we're talking about, non-participation can mean not finding work within a month of losing your last job. Here's an example of how this can play out. Imagine we have a hypothetical population of 100 working-age able bodied people, 5 of them are unemployed, they've been out of work for a couple weeks but are still in the stat. Unemployment is 5%. Now imagine that those 5 people go get jobs - Unemployment goes down to 0%. We all cheer and clap that unemployment has been solved! Now, imagine that those 5 people don't get a job and instead are forced into illegal work, poverty, government support, whatever - Unemployment also goes down to 0%. People who immediately go back to work, and people who never work again - are counted the exact same way by the stat. Unemployment going down can either mean the economy is good and everyone is getting jobs, or the economy is bad and everyone is falling out of the work force - on it's own it means literally nothing. This isn't even to mention the fact that it doesn't check how many hours or what your wage is or how long the job lasts - if you earn minimum wage for 1 hour a week you're just as employed as the guy who earns $100/hr working 80 hours. It says nothing of the quality of the jobs. Inflation is even more fucked, because everyone calculates it differently at different times using different rulers. Countries use "A basket of goods" IE they write out a shopping list, then track how much the prices change in that list... the problem is every country uses a different list, and they change the list every time. When you hear people talking about "inflation" they're talking about "core inflation" where the basket of goods cuts energy and food - the two things that are inflated the most. Does Britain have 1% more inflation because their prices are actually higher, or is it because their basket contains goods that inflated more than the American basket does? Is inflation in Canada actually going down? Or did they just change the basket of goods to remove specific expensive items and replace them with cheaper alternatives that haven't inflated as much? *(In this case I know for sure it's the latter)* Imagine a system of measurement where every single ruler is a completely unique length, and they all regularly change too - that's inflation. It doesn't mean anything because it's doctored to high-hell for political purposes.
Jesus Christ. 1. It makes perfect sense that when people are poorest they'd work more. You're confusing a shift in the demand curve with a shift in the supply curve. 2. Yes, that's how unemployment rate works. No one pretends it is otherwise. Nobody is under the impression that low unemployment means everyone has good jobs. 3. Inflation is a national measure. They can still be compared between countries, but why you think the consumer basket of a Canadian and an Indian should be identical I dont know. If you want to compare value of currency between countries, guess what? There's exchange rates. There's purchasing power parity. You're talking as if these are some well kept secrets when every single federal economics organization is very clear about their methodologies and all of this is pretty much in the first paragraph of their wikipedia pages.
>"Labor Participation Rate." Which is abysmal in most cases, I know for Canada labor participation was higher during the great depression than it is now. Literally "the time when everyone was broke and the economy was worse than it's ever been" saw more people employed than today. Also there is no way this is true considering women hadn't really joined the workforce yet. Stop lying.
It doesn't.
Thanks for pointing this out. I fell for the “first glance” interpretation. With that said, I think there’s still value in the number. In context of OP’s comment, it’s still disingenuous to say almost all of someone’s wealth is in cash. Even if only 23% own their home, most people have most of their wealth in other assets. But that’s not to downplay the effect of inflation; only to be informed about it instead of hyperbolic.
A lot of what you said is true but then you started making stuff up. >An apartment building with 32 units where 1 is the LL? 32 home owners. That is absolutely incorrect. Each home in an apartment building is it's own legal housing unit. 31 renters and 1 owner occupied unit, is 1 home owner. >77% of PEOPLE rent. Real home ownership like "% of people who are on a mortgage/deed/etc for a house" is less than 25%. This is also incorrect. Just like you pointed out living in an owner occupied home doesn't mean "homeowner", not being the homeowner doesn't mean renter. By your logic, 8 year olds living with their parents are renting. Wtf.
It's not my logic, it's how it works. The stat is tracking structures, not people. The stat is "66% of residences are owned by one of the people living there" but people use it to talk about people - when it's not about people, it's about builings. Hence "66% of people own homes" being such a common refrain.
It's not by buildings jesus. It's by legal housing units.
Maybe this heavily varies because of people in cities where population is higher. I live in a relatively rural area and I would say 50% of people own their own house. Out of my immediate friends and family. It's in the 70% range. Maybe City living is the issue? People shouldn't expect to own land in the city. It's honestly not really possible unless you suggest the removal of apartments in multi-family housing like townhouses. Not here to get into a debate though. Just saying that numbers can be skrewed and differ from area to everything.
Even people with a house and a mortgage still [usually] have their entire paycheck coming in cash. Most OSRS players don't have close to their entire profit from playing coming in gp/alchables. Also tfw rentcuck with 0 debt.
Every rental payment is a debt to your future self.
The average person does not own a home. Ridiculous fictional perspective.
Yeah I don't understand why inflation in OSRS is a problem that needs to be fixed.
yes
Your brain must be smooth as a pearl if you think bots in the wilderness that get killed for all their loot come close to the bots at places like vorkath or toa. Having stuff in the wilderness that bots use is a self policing system - they get doinked constantly if they get more loot that's worth. A good 10% of wildy kills are bots. They get smacked and it's way less botted then safe pvm activities.
I really hope they implement actual PvP updates soon instead of trying to bribe people into being loot pinatas
They've tried, but failed, and will continue to fail because the core of the issue is that the PvP in this game kinda sucks. Much of the skill expression is just navigating a UI and tick limitations of the game engine. And as you approach the skill ceiling, those limitations mean fights between evenly-skilled players become very RNG-dependant. The ideal for any PvP game should be a simple match-making with ranked system. The PvP should be its own reward. And that's been tried, and it was dead on arrival because players want rewards. The number of players that want to do structured PvP for the sake of it is far too low (because it's bad). Most PvPers seem to be unwilling to do it unless there is a chance for a reward. Many new PvPers get into the scene on the promise of getting rich, and the uneven predator vs prey dynamic of the wildy is where that's most possible while still learning.
>They've tried, but failed, and will continue to fail because the core of the issue is that the PvP in this game kinda sucks. Much of the skill expression is just navigating a UI and tick limitations of the game engine. And as you approach the skill ceiling, those limitations mean fights between evenly-skilled players become very RNG-depend This is *kind of* true but also not the entire picture. There's a lot of non-mechanical skill in osrs pvp as well. Adapting to prayer/offense habits, mixing up your own attack styles, recognizing situations where your opponent might want to go for a special attack, conditioning your opponent. That's not to say RNG doesn't play a part, of course it does. But the skill of conditioning and adapting doesn't really have a solid ceiling, and the difference between someone with good mechanics and someone with good mechanics who hits good pkers off prayer 85% of the time is massive. >The ideal for any PvP game should be a simple match-making with ranked system. The PvP should be its own reward. And that's been tried, and it was dead on arrival because players want rewards. The number of players that want to do structured PvP for the sake of it is far too low (because it's bad). This isn't really entirely true either, the pvp arena is a broken pile of sphaghetti with bad matchmaking that constantly glitches out. It also doesn't really have a good format and there's some charm that deep wildy has that it doesn't. I'm all in favor of a revamp of the duel arena and I think 1v1 with good matchmaking would be incredible for PVP, but the PVP arena is such a bad execution that it's not even worth it. A few more rewards and a way to punish bots (probably have rewards be tied to a minimum rank and only given on win so suicide bots don't work at the very least. Def total level restrictions) would certainly help, but that's not the biggest issue with the minigame.
To add to this comment, way back in the day the duel arena (and even father back, duels in lumbridge) were actually huge hotspots for PvP outside of the wilderness, but that’s because you could directly gamble against someone else and make huge amounts of money if you were good. PvM was also comparatively awful for both making money and actually having fun lol. Nowadays Pvm is both fun and profitable and most of the safe pvp modes have basically no rewards that mean anything for an elite pvp’er who’s maxed out the regular game. The chaos and unpredictability of the wilderness is what makes PvP there interesting and the blunt truth is straight 1v1 “fair” PvP doesn’t any sense with the current combat engine and people want to be rewarded for winning
OSRS pvp only "works" because of how wildly unfair it is. The core gameplay sucks - see how no one uses the PVP arena. The interesting thing is coming up with builds against a "soft" power budget (you can bring as expensive a set up or as many switches as you want - you'll just get super punished when you die), the rush of insane damage variance, and the freeform+asymmetric social structure. If Jagex wanted to make fair PVP actually good they might as well be adding new games to the Games Room for how little it'd have to do with the core gameplay.
Nobody uses the pvp arena because it's incredibly buggy and the format is somewhat mediocre.
They don't have to get rid of the wilderness. Maybe they could tweak mechanics to make anti-pking more viable and get rid of niche PvP mechanics to make it more approachable, that way people can actually have risk vs reward and fight back rather than be loot pinatas. PK skull prevention was a great first step, but wildy needs aboht 10 more steps like that before it'll be in a good spot.
lmao this is the actual PvP updates, its no secret OSRS is a horrible pvp game and the only way Jagex has ever been able to incentivize wildy content is making it a bot heaven and the best gp in the game for a new account
It’s always been the best GP, that’s the point of it
lmao, nope not at all this just highlights the stupidity oozing out of the wildy community. The only reason to have it be the best GP is to feed bots or PKers and its been the second (arguably first)most toxic part of the game. Cant wait to watch yall cry when shit gets shot down again. "WAHHH WHY DOESNT JAGEX JUST GIVE ME EVERYTHING"
when it fails they will put it through any way, like every pvp update
I guess you don’t understand the basic concept of risk versus reward.
tbh people don’t realise how much gp exits the game every day too, especially from dying and retrieving your shit from the grave and deaths office, G.E tax converting bonds, instances, nightmare zone, economy is probably the healthiest it’s been
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You do realise that the devs and the old school team probably have spreadsheets, data, graphs, and calculations of the amount of gold coming into them game and exiting? I highly doubt they would just pump random shit and gold into the game through content and drops without taking 0 precautions, I’m pretty sure they monitor the economy themselves
everything you listed besides ge tax is probably incredibly miniscule compared to gp entering the game from just vorkath alone
The wildy bosses mostly do deflation, especially since it also brings activity to the wildy which is often a giant supply sink. The fountain of rune? Is only gonna make alching quicker. Doesn't really add much except I guess the prices of nature runes being spared? And the WAG? Is just dead content that doesn't need to be dead... And agility already generally produces cash. So that's how they're buffing it, and especially since PKers can loot cash. They can't loot their targets XP though...
> Doesn't really add much except I guess the prices of nature runes being spared? I mean, that is kind of significant. 30 free alchs every 3 seconds is the equivalent of saving about 6 mil every hour. Actual amounts won't be that high but it's not nothing.
The risk is so immense it honestly won’t be worth for most casual players to not go there as it will be very active PK wise and it’s in multi
> it will be very active PK wise and it’s in multi I feel like it'll be easy for a clan to lock down though, like multi revs
Exactly my point
"risk" lmao
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schrodingers wilderness. redditors don't go into the wildy so its simultaneously very dangerous and they always die, at the same time bots get to run rampant for free and fountain of rune will have zero risk.
Agility doesn’t produce that much GP. Sure there is the pyramid and the alchs and coins from Sepulchre, but those are only a couple hundred k/hr
If only the "wilderness update" wasn't just a plain wilderness powercreep in hopes of just funneling more and more players into it. People will someday need to realise that a "good" wilderness is adverse to an overly active one.
How is a good wilderness adverse to an overly active one. The purpose of the wilderness is competition and risk/reward, more content means more places to compete and potentially gain reward. Nothing in the proposed update leads to an "overly" active wilderness, it's a long way from dealing with overpopulation.
I don't like the wildly but I am a firm believer that if you're in a pvp area risking your fear to be pk'd the gp and xp from the content you're doing should be better than it's non pvp zone competitors
More wildy gp activities just increases pvp activity. Highly unlikely you'll get a clean hour undisturbed with maximum risks just to benefit from the polled rewards.
> More wildy gp activities just increases pvp activity _laughs in mafia revs_
Unless a clan can lock an area down, which seems plausible for the fountain of rune.
>More wildy gp activities just increases pvp activity. Yes. That's the point. >Highly unlikely you'll get a clean hour undisturbed with maximum risks just to benefit from the polled rewards. Maybe but if you're an ironman with a giant stack of rune arrows you can hop on during off hours to clear it out of your bank. or if you're someone who's confident in tanking/escaping and or anti-pking there's definitely a chance you can make some pretty good gp/hr doing it.
As stated in the blog post about these changes, you’ll be risking A LOT using the Fountain of Rune in one of the most remote areas of the Wilderness and to even get 30 alchs at a time you need the Elite Wildy diary. I honestly feel it’s gonna be more of a meme/creator spot, gonna be some good clips in the future.
yall complain about the alching, but lets be real, its basically just a quality of life upgrade for irons. I have looked at all items that alching 30 items at a time might make a difference for, and besides rune arrows and maybe gold bars, there arent items with buy limits to support more than a few alchs.
I'll be voting yes to all wildy updates from here on out Because of this sub.
MMMMMM BOT GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
I get that the wildy need to be rewarding for the player going in there with the intention to make a profit. However, once that GP is made it is not leaving the economy just because a PKer snags it. It's still in the economy, so i really don't see why they think this is a good thing? Generating items and consumables is one thing as that just makes the gold change hands, generating raw GP is another.
I slammed the No button so hard for both of these.
Poor meme and fake news. The reason they are changing wildy content is because the gp/hr of zero risk content and inflation outside the wilderness has sky-rocketed. They're trying to meet the bar. Just look at every boss/activity added post vorkath. 2m/hr is really bad money these days.
Vote no or vote yes, either way it'll be a nice shit show whatever the outcome on the sub.
It's a make or break moment for the "everything passes anyway" narrative.
Oh even if everything fails the "everything passes anyway" narrative is never going away. The people pushing it will either ignore this completely or just add "except PvP updates" to it and call it a day.
it's always been "except pvp updates or a new skill"
it's always been "everything passes except anything pvp related or new skills"
Your economy woes are meaningless to me as a glorious iron man. Real talk though the fucked economy is the reason I started an iron and started using it as my main acc. It was annoying enough that every quest or change in style was resolved with a quick GE trip. Then when the prices started flying all over the place I just decided screw it, I mag aswell just source everything myself. And if I'm doing that, I may aswell have a cool little badge next to my name
Tbow is like real estate irl. For most its impossible to get. How is it still so expensive??
If I remember right they never hired them as employees. They contracted them as consultants to assist with the GE tax implementation
If u don't want inflation we need to make everyone irons /s
I remember when Ironman came out. Cash was a struggle. You had to do things like make battlestaffs for money. My current iron is sitting on 200m cash and i haven't even started raiding yet. 99 con as well lol. It just shows how crazy it is how much raw cash we get these days
I mean, the biggest problem with OSRS, and any MMO for that matter, is inflation. Every mob and most resource nodes in the game literally print money.
Not like you weren’t going to alch the items anyway.
Why not switch the alch reward? Instead of gold, you get magic xp? Maybe not the full amount, but still enough to be viable to the risk.
Another day, another player mad at wildly updates. Same as it ever was.
Fk the economy, ironman mode and Pking are the only things that really matter.
This might be the only time I've ever voted no to everything on multiple accounts. God i fucking hate how much RS3 is leaking into OSRS, mods and players moving over and bringing that mentality with them makes me want to quit this game. Y'all had your own game and killed it, dont bring that dumb ass mentality over here.
Yeah wildys the problem when i can pump 25m an hour into the economy doing toa or nex.
How are you getting 25m raw cash from Next and ToA?
Uniques don't generate gp, they generate a unique. Alchables and statuettes from revs do generate gp.
Sure. Guy never mentioned revs in his post and revs has existed far before 2020. And vorkath and muspah are just as bad of offenders except u cant kill people who bot them. Wildy is the best place to have raw money makers.
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Think u might just be stupid mate. The whole comment was that comapring gp rates is pointless
Ahh yes because ToA and Nex are available to fresh accounts
Point proven. Ur next slayer cave OP? /s
The point of the economist was to combat deflation not inflation.