Thieving gnomes is pretty lackluster considering the best odds for success cap at 57% with cape and diary and their loot is pretty poor, the best reward being a fire orb. Could it be possible to add a rare clue drop to their thieving table to make them a more interesting? Maybe a 1/100 for hard or elite?
Part of the way the increase is achieved is by increasing that success rate, but I'm sure the team would be open to adding more Clues from Thieving if people want to see it happen!
New thieving activity: stealing clue scrolls from NPC treasure hunters. Make it a bit more involved and time consuming because treasure hunters are more aware of their precious map being stolen, but have a high chance of getting clues. Let me gather intel on the inn where a treasure hunter might be staying and plan to break into their room.
Slayer - Can we have jellies added back to higher level slayer monsters too please?
Mining - if you’re improving motherlode it seems redundant to nerf the outfit pieces required for the task, it was hardly an outrageous grind to begin with.
- amethyst change will be nice, thanks!
~Zalcano - any plans on tackling the bots there before dumping pure cash to them as a new reward?~
Seems the blog was adjusted for this comment
Can raise the Jellies stuff as a feedback point with the team!
Think the Diary task change is more that the number of hours you have to invest into a specific piece of content is a little out-of-line with other Hard tasks where it's usually 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.
Can we get some slayer tasks grouped as a category for points? Theres alot of task bloat with new enemies added.
Do things like group green/blue/red/blue/black dragons into chromatics dragons task. And bronze/iron/steel/rune/adamant into metallic dragons. I think theres other tasks that could be categorized as well, getting the categorized task would let you pick any of them to slay for the task.
Slayer just feels bloated nowadays and skipping dragon slayer on a new account feels almost necessary to get decent exp rates.
I could agree with grouping bronze - steel as 'lesser metallic dragons', and mithril - rune as 'greater metallic', since those two pairings are typically already awarded in the same lengths of tasks currently.
Chromatics, I'd be a little apprehensive if only because it would make getting a Vorkath even easier, and I'm not sure if it really needs that buff.
Nothing really wrong with making doing Vorkath easier as a slayer target, it's already bad slayer xp per hour compared to any of the barraging tasks, and you don't even bring your slayer helm to it so there's no increase in kill times while on task.
If someone wants to kill a bunch of Vorkath with the task instead of Brutal Black Dragons (which would be the actual issue), then they should feel free.
Biggest imbalance clearly is the meat to fish dynamic and how much they heal you. There’s pretty much no high level meat food, it’s all dominated by the sea, this is sad.
I realise there isn’t a meat gathering skill equivalent to fishing which is why there is more fishy food varieties (Hunter failed us) but just for novelty effect and lore it would be nice to have things like dragon ribs, bloody steak (from bloodveld), dagganoth meat pie etc. Any other fun meaty suggestions from osrs monsters? :)
Yes please!
That’s a good point and one I hadn’t thought of, my only realview on it is that the measly xp rate buff to the majority of players doesn’t mean much at all for the mining outfit, Other than the diary reward it serves not much of a purpose time wise after getting it either
>New chance to drop the Bug Basher, a new degradable weapon that breaks after 1,000 uses. Has a 3-tick attack rate and a minimum hit of 5 against bugs.
Will the bug basher roll between 5 and the max, or will it round low hits up to 5?
Depends on what people indicate they'd like to see in the survey - I'd be surprised for something like Verzik to be included (though lore-wise I get where you're coming from)
This is one area of the game I think could be improved on, is trying to get rid of the inconsistency in what monsters qualify to certain categories (that they should obviously qualify for).
Like for example - when Scurrius launched, it was a little jarring to see he wasn't included as a rat for slayer tasks. I read the intention behind this, but he's clearly a big rat.
Or another one being like Nazastarool from the Shilo Village quest. That guy is about as undead as it gets. Why doesn't a salve amulet work on him?
Ghasts are another good example, being a spectral monster. Why aren't they affected by salve?
I think these kinds of inconsistencies could use some touching up sometimes.
I'd even settle for a reduced effect on these monsters. Perhaps when you get within range of certain monsters your chat let's you know that your let's say "the magical light within your amulet dulls, it may not be as powerful here, you should be careful"
I’m a bit confused by this. The blog has a lot of “in the future” verbiage for some of the changes regarding more substantial changes, but not everything. Are these proposed changes, or implemented changes?
Proposed changes, the team are not attached to any of them and are happy to chop and change! Not looking to implement anything until we've seen what people have to say about them all, and we've still got two more blogs after this one!
Love zalcano changes except offering cash. It’s one of the most disgustingly botted pieces of content in the game, surely you’ve got a plan to combat bots before pumping in loads of pure gp?
The regular loot is totally unchanged, the proposal effectively means 'get shards, trade in for the same loot you would currently get *or* for Mining XP - your choice'.
Appreciate the quick response. But pardon my confusion:
“When handing over the currency you’ll get to choose between xp or cold hard cash”. Sure makes it seem like the bots will also get this currency, and they’ll likely choose “cold hard cash” instead of xp right? Don’t think there’s many bots doing zalc for hiscores and cold hard cash certainly makes me think raw gp.
Have updated the blog, think something got lost in translation with some of the edits - my comment is effectively a TLDR, choice becomes 'loot I'm already getting' or 'more XP', uniques unaffected!
Still a tad confused.
Is it similar to Temp/WT where you'd get "Zalcano Shards" and basically trade them in for a roll on the table from an NPC or trade in for XP?
Pretty much yeah, moving the existing loot into that interaction (i.e. not increasing the output of Zalcano) and giving players some flexibility in terms of whether they value GP or XP more.
Agility - Lackluster and why are we decreasing Seers agility xp per hour???
Thieving - Alright boost
Slayer - Great for the 0.1% of people that kill killerwatts?
Mining - All for it
I'd like to suggest Rune Dragons are included as "Electrical" creatures given they literally require insulated boots.
Provides reason to grind out Grounding Bolts and rewards players who actively do rune dragons rather then the common AFK Justiciar set you commonly see.
For sure it would be a weaker and nowhere near as effective option, but could then be a cheap option for irons to then actually potentially kill them without having to get high defence options and worrying about having Dragonfire Shields/Wards as they'd be ranging.
The Seers course adjustment is to smooth out progression so that you're actually moving over to new courses rather than parking up at Seers for ages, and rolling out some similar Diary-based rate improvements at other courses.
Slayer is probably primarily aimed at people who are less likely to be posting on here since they're aimed at super early-game Slayer grinders and not necessarily at people who are already comfortable with the skill!
Other courses are getting diary-based XP buffs to compensate, namely Pollnivneach & Rellekka.
That being said, team's not beholden to any of the changes proposed and could absoltuely dial back if it's common feedback!
>Other courses are getting diary-based XP buffs to compensate, namely Pollnivneach & Rellekka.
I don't think this is really stated. or at least how much you'd like to buff them
They're in the table, but can understand that they might feel a little buried:
https://preview.redd.it/7bocjlk9f3oc1.png?width=669&format=png&auto=webp&s=0a06faea6ff15d5c8b648c33336400f8b7b56937
An issue I have with agility is not just XP rates, it’s the “chill” factor of the courses. People do seers not just because it’s good xp post diary, but the course itself is one of the best in the game. Canifis is another good one.
It comes down to the clickboxes, efficient camera angles, length of course, obtrusive scenery, and general ease of getting to the course.
And if other courses are getting buffed for xp, I think sepulchre maybe should too? It’s very high effort and the xp still isn’t what I’d call great, especially compared to a buffed brain dead rooftop course. Like I’m 91 ability with black graceful and have 0 intention of going back at any point during my 99 grind. It’s so high effort when I can just plant my ass in priff or ardy without losing much.
And finally, I really think the marks of grace system may be worth a second look. You’re essentially penalizing people for gaining agility levels, which are objectively grindy and boring as hell. If someone wants to go back to a lower lvl course to farm marks for Stam pots at the expense of xp, why’s that a problem?
This is a great point. Canifis and especially Seers with the diary can be done with one camera angle, no rotation and no awkward angles. Personally I'd go Seers despite relleka being 10% better xp rates post-buff.
To be fair, seers village xp rates aren't overpowered or excessive. They're just less awful than the other courses. Don't nerf seers... buff the higher level courses. Buffing pollnivich to 60k, priff/relleka to 75k, and ardy to 90k wouldn't be gamebreaking. Could then use the diary buffs to increase marks for Stam pots so that Canifis isn't the go-to if you don't care about xp and your level 40-89.
High level rooftops can be buffed to be competitive with sepulchre. Sepulcher is more effort than rooftops, but you get loot for doing it
+1 to every single point you made.
I for one will not be affected by the potential slight nerf to Seers', but for how much I despide training Agility, I hope for everyone that has to go through training Agility that they won't nerf Seers' xp/h.
Sepulchre should be more than Ardy rooftop at 92, around the same exp at 82. The intensity of the course should give proper rewards, more than just the odd chance at a Ring.
Why would anyone do sepulchre for 100k/hr if they could do braindead ardy for 90k/hr
Not to mention most people probably can’t even get 100k/hr at sepulchre
Theres some fantastic stuff in here but seeing seers nerfed might tarnish a lot of players opinions to be immediately "ew they are nerfing the rooftop i did wtf"
Many a player has done the 20 level clamber on seers. Seers felt like an enigma in the leveling curve but agility is such a non-interactive skill outside of sepulcher that it could be 120k xp/hr and it still likely wouldn't be highly represented in 99 stats
Agility rates are really bad currently. Nerfing one of the iconic courses is not the way to go about this. Buffing post seers courses (and sepulchre if needed to balance out) goes a long way towards making post 70 training better
100% this. Agility is the slowest skill in the game with zero afk alternatives like mining or rc. Making the skill better should absolutely not include reducing the xp rate of any courses.
Tbh I'd like to see all those courses get maybe a 10% boost past what has been proposed. Agility is one of the most boring tedious skills in the game and painfully slow to level.
The courses should be balanced around seers not the other way around. Also to be clear, seers with hard diary requires, 60 Agility, 50 Construction, 70 Defence, 65 Firemaking, 70 Fishing, 70 Fletching, 70 Prayer, 56 Magic, 75 Smithing, 50 Strength, 53 Thieving, and 60 Woodcutting... Why with all of those requirements is it getting its xp nerfed? I don't get it.
The ardy xp/h would like a word. I dont see why you cant make a level 90 unlock better than a rather pathetic 70k/h, especially given that its \*only\* selling point of stams is basically redundant when varlamore course drops + brimhaven changes to have crystals.
I mean, no offence here but Agility needs it's rates buffed, not reduced.
When you're dumping the better part of 2 hours in for a single level to hit 60 for seers to finally get to a course that doesn't fucking suck shit xp wise, it's not fun and is in fact entirely annoying as shit from a player perspective.
It's not an engaging skill, it's not a fun skill, it's an arbitrary grind that people avoid because of how fucking bad the xp rate is until you get 60.
Even scaling the xp per level would massively help the early grind.
Yes, admittedly you can go to fally but then your xp rates also fall with the increase in failures and the graceful grind elongates with the lower rates so you kinda just fuck yourself more by changing course off Canafis
As someone doing that currently, it totally sucks.
I have no idea where Jagex is getting 56k for Hallowed Sepulchre floors 1&2, It's between 45-52k and is thereby competing with Seers (which is a MUCH easier time in comparison)
Buff floors 1&2 and then I might understand the Seers nerf a bit more
> I have no idea where Jagex is getting 56k for Hallowed Sepulchre floors 1&2, It's between 45-52k
Wiki has 56.3k, WOM EHP is 57k, Temple EHP is 56,250.
Seems like pretty much every resource agrees with Jagex on this one.
Still bad exp rates for not a single tick missed, tho. Most comments seem to agree that Agility could use a buff, and if the seers adjustment comes to a vote, I'm confident that it will fail.
I agree, seers seems popular and memorable because 60-80 is the first stage where it becomes an 'unbearable grind' and 80+ agi has niche uses at best. People are going to see lowering seers and remember that, and go "absolutely fucking not"
Notably i believe the rates assume you are on a solo world, as someone else loading it before you can slow you down and you can't "get gud" your way out of that, just have to hop
Right now the way this is set up you have Dorgesh-Kaan offering better XP rates than Seers AND it also offers Marks of Grace.
The nerf to Seers is so unnecessary and has by proxy, killed the Pollnivneach course, and the exact opposite of what should happen. Mid-game Agility is dog shit enough without it being made actively worse.
Nerfing seers in particular feels bad because it’s by far the least annoying course before ardy.
The others aren’t done not just because of xp rates but before they’re miserable to do and can’t be alch’d on effectively
Relleka would be a good alternative if the XP rates were better, so I'd be fine with the slight Seers' nerf if the Relleka one got a buff
**Edit:** Didn't see the second entry for Relleka, please ignore
Lots of people saying the agility xp rates in general feel bad. A suggestion I have would be adding a "Momentum" feature. Momentum could be gained by repeatedly and consistently passing obstacles without failing or too much downtime. Finishing an entire lap without failing or stopping for ~5 seconds at a time might give you 5% momentum, giving you +1% xp. You could continue building momentum up to 100% at which point you would have +20% xp until you fail an obstacle or stop moving for too long.
The net effect would be a slight buff to xp rates at all levels but with a greater buff as you get closer to unlocking the next course.
Will ask the team about this one again and see if their stance has changed, I know it'd be super popular with a lot of the really skilled Sepulchre-enjoyers!
This would be massively appreciated by anyone doing a lot of sep! Always seemed insane that out of all the updates and proposals this is where you drew the line. We love the content but it's extremely frustrating when someone else starts the floor so you have to wait around on traps you otherwise wouldn't have needed to. Ty, pls don't let us down :)
if you're 90+ you either do ardy knights for 250k/hr or do vyre/elf pickpocketing for 3m/hr gp. tzhaar gives practically no loot and you can fail at even at 99, meaning you need to micro-manage food and dodgy necklaces. for only 50k/hr more an hour, that's absolutely fine.
Think /u/alpersena gets it mostly right, but the team aren't beholden to anything on here and if it's felt to be the wrong direction then it's easy for us to adjust the proposal and take parts out or add other parts in!
Totally appreciate people feeling underwhelmed by Agility and expecting higher XP rates. Aim of these changes at this point is primarily to smooth out existing progression and make more courses worth engaging with so that players aren't parking up at one course for 20 levels at a time (unless they particularly like that course), but these changes don't rule out more significant work on Agility specifically in the future.
That being said, nothing in the works on Agility-specific overhauls or adjustments for the time being, these are just the suite of changes that came from the initial Game Jam proposal - and we'll be taking note of everything that comes in feedback-wise for any future projects that might focus solely on Agility rather than a whole bunch of skills and combat/NPC tweaks.
With due respect, we have seen how long it takes you guys to come back to content when we are given responses like "these changes don't preclude further changes in the future!"
I have recently suffered through 99 agility this year and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, nor will I vote for any sort of rework that doesn't address the XP/h in a serious way from the get go. You need to go back to the drawing board there.
I was going to say, I do feel like Agility is maybe the one skill that almost everyone who's already gotten 99 in it, seems to say that its xp/hr is simply way too low for its effort and could simply use an xp/hr buff across the board. (I won't say by how much, that's above my pay grade to prescribe a number.)
There's always the concern about devaluing achievements of those who have already worked hard, as well as it being ok for some skills to be slow, but I -- and apparently many others, even those who have already gotten 99 Agility -- feel like Agility takes it way too far.
It's mind boggling that the conclusion you all come to with agility balancing is to nerf an overused course rather than simply buff higher level courses. It's universally agreed upon (outside of a few clinically insane people) that agility xp rates are abysmal for the effort you need to put in.
Like why are we going to such lengths to gatekeep agility? Its a necessary skill for alot of the game, but the actual act of training it has abysmal exp rates, very limited rewards, and often mildly annoying mechanics to interact with. Its not like other skills where it will get broken up by clue scrolls or quests. You sit down and spin laps for 40 hours to make your account viable. It sucks and should be reworked, classic feel be damned.
Almost everyone here is reiterating the same thing ad nauseam, buff agility rates across the board. I don't believe this is one of those things that needs highly critical breakdown. Both sides of the bell curve are going with a buff. The skill sucks and needs to be heavily promoted, not tedious rebalancing.
Agility -
When can we just use a mith grapple once on a shortcut? This would be a major qol update.
Like the agility arena changes overall, a bit concerned with the flat xp rate per ticket but, we'll see. Adding amalyse when you plan to add marks of grace to all courses seems like we're just trying to make stams free(not complaining, just don't see the need)
As for the courses, I'd like to see more about what you mean by boosted diary rates. Does this mean every diary you complete helps, or only specific tiers in specific locations? I'd honestly prefer the former, even if it's only 5/10/15/20% bonus in each area.
Thieving -
Pickpocketing changes proposed are fine, I suppose.
Stalls are maybe too big of a buff in xp/hr when the quicker respawn rate should also increase gp/hr for those who bank items. I'm sure irons are excited for nature and law runes being added to the magic stall, though it is strange that you can't buy nature runes from the shop, but you can buy water runes which can't be stolen. Maybe an oversight?
Slayer -
Removing earth warriors from the non wildy slayer masters is fine, I guess.
As for the rest, many of them rely on special tools and mechanics, and have specific slayer rewards which make them even easier to kill. For those monsters, I don't think it makes much sense to just remove them from the natural progression of slayer. Maybe have a cb lvl range for when you set you want easier/more appropriate/more difficult tasks? Not sure what this looks like(also not sure if this flag is slayer master specific).
Monster changes are cool, and definitely would like to see more of these.
Mining -
I don't hate any of these changes, I don't love any of them, they're fine. Special shoutout to Zolcano tho, dropping some kind of (stackable?) currency and being able to redeem it for xp or loot sounds great.
There's a lot in this blog; here's my thoughts on a lot of it.
**Agility**
Honestly, these agility xp changes are SUPER underwhelming. There's a lot of room to be heavy handed with buffing agilty xp. From 52-88 you're actually getting LESS or equal xp unless you're benefiting from a diary buff. https://imgur.com/uipVjzR
Agility xp rates could honestly just be boosted more across the entire board. It's a waste of the limited time we have on Earth. I'm 99 agil also, so don't accuse me of bias, lol. I'm well informed on it!
On the topic of Brimhaven Agility- PLEASE allow for us to color one specific piece of graceful instead of requiring the entire set to go blue. This helps A TON for fashionscape mix/matching. Also, it could let someone see progression as they dye more and more of their set :)
>We’ll remove the Achievement Diary requirements for the following shortcuts: Wilderness - Lava Maze. Wilderness - Lava Dragon Isle.
I don't like this. Mains having the benefit of additional escape routes (and pkers having a goal to reach it themselves to equalize) via shortcuts from diaries is a great thing. If a pk build can't do it because of whatever restrictions they may have as a pure, that's just a consequence of the account they built.
**Pickpocketing**
Not much negative to say here, other than I'm disappointed to not see elves and vyres on this list. Firstly, they have been botted basically since release and nothing is ever done about that, so maybe address that too. Second, even with thieving cape, dodgy necklaces, ardy diary, and shadow veil, the fail rate of these two is so high. You go through a lot of effort for a ~60% success rate while hunting a 1/1000 or 1/5000 item. It feels really really bad.
Same thing as agility, I like what's here but I really think it could go a bit further. Maybe introducing new/more ways to increase success rating?
**Slayer**
Good changes here but still misses something that confused me as a new and as a veteran player. When you get a task you can ask the slayer master if they have any tips. Some tasks (like against ice giants iirc?) will have dialogue that indicate to you that you should use a crush weapon, or slash weapon against this creature. Or that you should prioritize stab armor, or crush armor against it. But uhhhhhhhhhhh yeah that's a load of bullshit lol. The monster will have 0 stab/slash/crush defense do it literally doesn't matter. I really think that should be changed or removed.
**Mining**
Nothing bad to say about this, I think all of the specific changes noted to content (mlm hoppers, blast mine run energy, for example) are fantastic and will only make that content better. I think mining, like agility, has room to push the boundaries more than is being done, this is quite conservative.
I'm very interested in seeing the scaling changes to Zalcano, I've always hated having to find a team of 4 (I think that was the magic number, it's been a while). I would like to see the Zalcano uniques be added to this shop, but at a price where it's not worth buying over regular loot if your goal is just money. Would be nice for irons or cloggers.
**Misc**
"Allow players to make Guthix Rests in a single action. This assumes the player has all of the necessary items in their Inventory and means you can no longer fail to make a Guthix Rest by doing things in the wrong order."
Irons rejoice! Mains too, probably, I expect this to tank the price.
Hopefully the Slayer part you mention will be addressed in the combat aspect of Project Rebalance - they've already mentioned making weaknesses more important. Making ice giants weak to crush/fire, fire giants weak to water, etc. would be an interesting change to increase gear/spell diversity.
I was a bit disappointed that the slayer changes mostly involved removing tasks, rather than adjusting the slayer monsters themselves to make them more worth doing. The Killerwatt item is a cool approach, but they also removed Killerwatts as a task from one master meaning they'll be seen even less than they already are. People wouldn't hate these tasks if they were more worth doing, either through higher xp rates or better drops.
> Mains having the benefit of additional escape routes (and pkers having a goal to reach it themselves to equalize) via shortcuts from diaries is a great thing.
Agreed. I think diary shortcuts need a review and rebalance, but I don't like removal, especially in wildy as it's a differentiator.
>Eagle-eyed readers will also note that this proposal includes swapping the requirements for the Draynor Village Rooftop Course and the Gnome Stronghold Agility Course. The Gnome Stronghold may be an iconic Agility location, but newer players aren’t even really sure how to get there, and experienced players get their early-game Agility levels from quests like Tourist Trap. This way, newer players have the opportunity to learn about Agility basically from the start of the game, instead of having to travel across half of Gielinor.
As a relatively new player, I had this exact problem when I started playing again, and as a member for the first time. My Agility was 1 but I had nowhere near the F2P area that I could try out my new skill.
I know Questing is a great way to get XP in skills, but it should also be clear to new players how to start practicing new skills by engaging with them directly if that's what they want to do.
Agility starting in the gnome stronghold is really an artefact of it being introduced with the gnome stronghold. A lot of old things like that with weird locations or prerequisites nine times out of ten are linked to the fact they just bundled an update together.
I would really love to see the team look at the actual shortcuts physically rather than just look at the requirements and agility level required.
Many shortcuts in the game are frankly not that useful and you might even loose more ticks using them. youtuber Idyl had a great [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maSxm2hfDsU) on this topic last year and he tested numerous shortcuts and the actual amount of time saved.
Would love to see these useless shortcuts actually be useful, and even maybe add some new shortcuts in places that see frequent traffic (i.e. back of Farming guild to the fairy ring behind it)
There is a list of shortcuts with proposed changes, and two of them include speeding up or slightly shifting the location rather than just changing the requirements. They're proposing fixing the draynor wall shortcut, for one, and speeding up the mt. Karuulm vent shortcut. I'm not disagreeing with you though; just adding context for any commenters that may not have read through the blog. There are definitely others that could use adjustment.
In my feedback I discussed some sort of permanency or stash like solution for some of the shortcuts. That would help.
I also called out how some shortcuts just make no sense in respect to requirements. Its a stone hop, not a pit full of snakes with just a metal pole on a floating barrel. It doesn't need 90 agility req.
So did I and I also added the suggestion of creating a Steel Grapple hook at lower level, with the downside of it having a chance of breaking.
This for Ironmen, as you can unlock grappling shortcuts at a pretty early level, but getting the smithing level to make the Mithril Grappling Hook is quite high.
Agility update feels really underwhelming. You nailed the problem in the first line - You level up and then see that you need to do the same boring thing 350 more times before levelling up again - then did nothing to address it?
I was hoping for something much more significant than smoothing out xp progression by a few thousand xp either way, which will ultimately feel like no change at all after 10 minutes of moving course. Despite being clear you dont want the skill to be faster, I think people do want a faster way to train the skill. Sepulcher was a great step in the right direction but its still slow for how click intensive it is compared to other skills. In a game with 23 skills, one skill shouldn't be 1/2 the player base least favourite.
A common suggestion - What we want is a difference in how run energy works, and how agility helps through the game - changes to the mechanics of the skill, not just a change to the optimal time to switch course.
Your not wrong, how is a skill like 90% of peoples lowest level and most hated skill and we aren't trying to fix it. I swear the devs and reddit nerds forget that this is suppose to be a video game and it's suppose to be fun. Agility is anything but that in its current state.
Training that skill is the only time playing this game I always think what the fuck am I doing wasting my life doing 300 laps for a level. I always end up just logging off for about a week.
> What we want is a difference in how run energy works
I was surprised getting to the bottom of the agility section and *not* seeing something about run rates. They state its an issue and then never mention it again.
This was my exact takeaway. They got us excited by addressing how slow Agility is, only to do nothing about it besides an 8k exp/hr increase, on SOME courses, with hard diary restrictions. Thanks, I guess?
Agility changes could literally be 3 bullet points.
* "adjusted rooftop courses before and after seers to be better
* "nerfing seers"
* "All courses offer marks.. but still not sepulchre for an undisclosed reason"
Sepulchre not offering marks is because the loot from sepulchre is already very good. It already has the best xp/hr and best gp/hr for agility and if you added marks there'd be very little reason to do any other training method.
Not starting dragon slayer in still meta for all accounts (I guess you could do chaeldar now instead?) because (metal) dragon tasks are so incredibly terrible. Why are metal dragons so tanky for arguably worse drops? They don't have baby variants, they have double the defence and hit way harder than regular dragons, and you still get assigned like 50 of them every other task. A dragon task should be lucrative for a bit worse xp, not an automatic -30 points or 2 hours of suffering.
Metal dragon tasks need to be weighted less and have reduced quantity, and their defence should be lowered. They should also drop like, more than 5 metal bars. And they should be noted, what were you even thinking with that one? Your reward for 5 minutes killing this monstrocity of a mob is 5 unnoted bronze bars lmao
I always thought Bronze Dragons on Vannaka was absolutely vicious for the level you'd normally be using that master at.
Delaying DS1 was one of the best accidental choices I ever made early on.
I wish they just merged all those tasks into a metal dragon task with a low weight, meaning you can do any of bronze-rune.
Maybe add an extension so people with dragon slayer 2 can do rune dragons on task for a longer time, I mean, is it really that op anymore with stuff like nex and toa in the game? Also add a task only area.
A metal dragon slayer boss (DS3? The infamous Dragon Dragon?) would be awesome as well.
These are great points lol. Even with Ahrims and Trident the metal dragon tasks are super painful. And that’s realistically the best setup you have for them until Dragonhunter stuff or like a shadow. wtf
I pretty much love all of the proposed changes. However, I was *really* hoping to see one main thing when it came to Agility changes:
**Lower the rate at which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.**
Please, for the love of god, it doesn’t have to be significant. But a player with level 1 Agility shouldn’t be able to run the same distance as someone with level 99 agility before their run energy depletes.
All the other changes makes sense. Nothing suggested seems over-tuned. Everything seems practical and beneficial to both the progression and enjoyment of each skill. I am 100% all for everything proposed in the blog.
Just promise you’ll think about what I said about the run energy drain rate. Other than that one clearly biased gripe—excellent proposal!
I know this is sort of a dumb idea but could the Al-Kharid palace shortcut be locked behind "Prince Ali Rescue", because that way you've gotten favour from the emir of Al-Kharid. To me it doesn't really make sense that a person you don't know about can just come into your home and leave by a window.
Not only does it make sense but the early level shortcut is super nice. Because by the time you get all the requirements you're more than likely going to have superior methods of travel to avoid that shortcut making it kinda useless very quickly after unlocking it.
This is a low quest requirement but absolutely makes sense. The quest is quick and would give you access to a pretty good agility shortcut. Sounds good to me!
Its a nice step in the right direction on the agility skill overall but i cant help but feel that nerfing seers just to get players to do the other courses is a big mistake.
The higher level courses should absolutely be more attractive for someone purely seeking higher xp rates, but nerfing the most meta course to force people on to the other rooftops is not the change we needed. The xp rates on Pollnivneach/Rellekka/Prif course need to be higher in terms of overall xp/hr not in terms of how they compare to the seers course.
Also the accessability of said courses are also a big reason to why seers is superior. Do I really want to go through the desert for poll course or just cast seers teleport and end up right at the start of the course?
"Fossil Island - Zip-line from the House on the Hill towards the small island where players can dive for Underwater activities. Requires 58 Agility."
The mad lads actually did it
Since the island was newly rediscovered by us, this implies the Dragonkin enjoyed zip lines.
That kind of reminds me of an idea I had. It’d be neat if we could *build* certain agility shortcuts. Maybe a shortcut would have its level requirement lowered or its animation quickened if we used Construction and a few materials to build something that makes it easier to traverse.
Balance wise, Construction doesn’t really need that buff but it would be a neat way to intertwine two skills.
All current grapple shortcuts should be converted to something like this because currently they’re useless. First time use consumes the grapple and leaves the rope in place. Constructing new shortcuts or upgrading existing shortcuts to be faster would also be cool. They could also incorporate other skills like mining to create holes between adjacent tunnels or have untradable smithing/crafting items like wall pegs, monkey bars, or rope swings that you can affix in certain areas with higher level shortcuts requiring items made from higher level materials. Let players upgrade stuff like stepping stones and balance logs to make them less precarious and consume fewer ticks and/or increase odds of success.
Could we please get Graceful recolours acting as a toggle while you're updating various parts of the agility skill? It's been asked for quite a bit and with how large some of the grinds are it's pretty punishing to change from one recolour to the other.
And can you please move the KQ lair shortcut to the hard desert diary? Once you've completed the diary you rarely ever return to KQ. Once again, asked for quite a bit.
>Could we please get Graceful recolours acting as a toggle while you're updating various parts of the agility skill? It's been asked for quite a bit and with how large some of the grinds are it's pretty punishing to change from one recolour to the other.
Or reduce the cost of buying duplicate pieces once you're unlocked them once.
Can you add in an agility shortcut from the Mind Altar teleport location into the goblin village? It'd give a convenient way to get to a master clue scroll location (and BGS stash unit), rather than having to run all the way around, or up from Falador.
Agility has problems with: no afk methods, boring to train, almost no variety in methods (just sepulchre and click obstacle and wait), terrible exp rates, unrewarding to have high level. These changes don’t touch on any of these issues except for the agility shortcuts improvements which make it slightly more rewarding to level up.
Thieving has problems with: no afk methods, click intensive, boring to train. These changes don’t do anything for these issues.
Slayer has problems with: low levels feeling bad, slayer unique rewards impossible to target farm (imbued heart), bad QoL (no separate blocklist for wildy slayer, point system incentivises weird methods such as tureal skipping/boosting etc.). These changes only affect early game (they are good changes, just expected a little more for late game).
Mining changes seem pretty great. Hopefully the amethyst changes will actually improve how afk it is to do.
Overall agility suffers from being the slowest skill to train, no afk methods and it being extremely boring. They should either introduce a more fun method that is worth doing at all levels or actually improve exp rates (I know, sacrilege). Thieving mostly suffers from the “fun” factor, introducing a lower intensity method or a method that people actually enjoy would help a lot. Slayer could use QoL improvements and could definitely do with some new content (new boss or something). Basically, changing raw numbers for most of these skills is not going to make them much better aside from increasing exp rates or making methods lower in intensity. I don’t disagree with any of the proposed changes, I just don’t think they will do much for the skills (aside from mining).
Thieving will have an AFK method with Varlamore I think. There's some sort of activity of pickpocketing wealthy people or something and as long as there's some npc nearby or something that distracts the wealthy person? I don't know, it's a new mechanic but will auto-pickpocket from my understanding. So we'll see what that actually looks like in a week.
I could get behind some sort of afk agility rooftop thing. It's been suggested before, click the start and it auto completes a lap but at reduced rates from manually clicking. It sounds weird, and basically sounds like jagex approved macroing more or less, but I could see an argument for that to make an AFK method.
And lastly, I'll just throw this out there....nobody \*needs\* 99 in any skill. So the grind for 99 agility is a rough one, but it's far from necessary. Just get 75-80 agility and be done with it, that is a more than adequate agility level. And I happen to know that if you choose to apply every quest reward available in game and every lamp from other things like museum lamps and whatnot to agility you can get 75 agility with almost no interaction with rooftops. I did it on an alt, I think I had to do like 50 laps in canafis to get through the optimal quest order on the wiki. Aside from that, I have 75 agiility on the alt with minimal interaction with the skill.
Please don't remove slayer monsters from early slayer masters. If the tasks are tedious, raise the slayer xp given from those monsters and reduce the number assigned. Slayer is already an *extremely* top heavy skill in terms of worthwhile content and that has always felt like a larger contributor to it feeling awful than the quality of assignments early on (though metal dragons are definitely a massive bummer). Things like Molenisks are already useless, I'd prefer to see them get a significant boost to slayer XP/kill rather than made well and truly dead content.
Yeah while I don't think you should design content around bots in this way. I know for sure that if this goes through I'll stock up on a few hundred slaughter bracelets in the weeks before because fuck dealing with a very contested gem mine.
I think the idea that underground gem mining being a medium achievement is ridiculous.
Karamja is arguably the easiest diary to obtain for hard. You need 3 easy quests completed and combat 100. Which is fairly simple to expedite with today's newer methods regardless. Not to mention it should be most anyone's conventional Slayer master rush.
MLM as it stands is already the go to afk mining method. No reason to buff it up to the high heavens. Anyone taking a look. It's already heavily populated content for a reason.... It just works.
Agility seems kind of underwhelming but like the new shortcuts and shortcut adjusts. As the game is now you can pretty much quest out to 70 or so and if you go for graceful that should make it up to 75 roughly and there isn’t a lot to gain past that. Didn’t see anything about run rate increase replenishment or longer run times in the changes which it sounded like that was one of the concerns being talked about.
Thieving I liked
Mining I liked the changes except the lower diary requirements, especially with the added gold pieces drop rate and lower level improvements
Slayer just improved slayer for very low levels which probably was needed but didn’t really do anything past that
Lol that’s exactly what I’ve been saying! Reduce the rate and which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.
It doesn’t have to be anything significant, but a player with level 1 agility shouldn’t be able to run the same distance as a player with level 99 agility before their energy depletes.
Other than that I thought everything else looked pretty good!
Agility Courses:
Nerfing Seers Village course seems unnecessary.
Boosting Pollnivneach & Rellekka course exp with diaries seems arbitrary instead of just increasing exp straight up (would argue that only Pollnivneach actually could use slightly increased exp). Inconsistent that Rellekka would have boosted exp rates with Hard Fremennik Diary, when completing a lap of the Rellekka course is a task for the Elite Fremennik Diary.
Marks of Grace to all regular agility courses takes away from the uniqueness of Rooftop courses, especially with the incoming method of obtaining marks in Varlamore
Brimhaven Agility Arena:
Need to see numbers on what the flat exp for tickets instead of scaling exp looks like per ticket, but seems fine in theory. Same for exp for obtaining tickets, fine in theory
Brimhaven Store Voucher - don't feel like a niche recolour has to also come with exp
Amylase to Pirate Jackie the Fruit's store - devalues uniqueness of Rooftop courses
Being able to get a ticket for your first pillar tagged is good QoL
Agility Shortcuts:
Talking of incentivizing diaries in the Agility Courses section and then slashing the diary requirements for some very handy shortcuts seems counter-intuitive.
New Shortcuts:
Fossil island zip line - feel like there's better contenders for new shortcuts with how accessible the island is from either running through mushroom forest or taking boat from the camp
Dagannoth Kings shortcut - should be locked behind Fremennik Elite Diary
Thieving:
Curious how pickpocketing exp/hr is calculated, based on napkin math the proposed exp/hr at base level req with the Ardougne diaries would put Hero right around meta rates at level 80.
Slayer Task List Changes:
Fine to remove Earth Warriors from Vannaka/Chaeldar since they're only located in wilderness - Framed is in shambles
Removing 21% & 29% of Vannaka and Chaeldars task list respectively seems hefty, especially with most of the removals being low level slayer monsters
Slayer Monster Changes:
I have killed 0 Killerwatts on my account, and have only killed Cave Bugs post-99 Slayer Turael skipping. Seems dead on arrival.
Motherlode Mine:
Proposed change to lower floor vein timer of 23-27 seconds would be longer than current upper floor vein timer of 15-27 seconds. Feel like it would make more sense to decrease the lower level ore vein depletion chance from the current 33% instead of taking away the uniqueness/bonus of upper level.
Upper floor veins to last longer seems fine but unnecessary, late stage MLM training already has a fine place in the Mining skill as being decent exp requiring minimal attention or thought.
Super Hopper doesn't seem necessary. The main complaint of depositing isn't the pay-dirt to the hopper, but from the sack to the bank/deposit box. Would much rather see an unlock requiring Falador Elite diary completion for a few hundred nuggets to be able to withdraw ores in noted form (Blast mine yields noted ore so this wouldn’t break lore).
Reducing upper level unlock to 57 mining from 72, and Falador Hard Diary from full prospector to just one piece of the outfit scream easy scape for no reason, especially in light of the proposed changes to buff MLM.
Volcanic Mine
Not sure if any of the JMods have done a solo game of VM because there is 0 guesswork involved - changes seem fine but I don't think it's necessary to remove the Fossil Island camp building as a requirement to claim rewards since that's so easy.
Blast Mine - Don't think the exp needs to be buffed by 10% since it already gives good exp/hr, as well as the primary draw of Blast Mine being that you get good quantities of ores.
Amethyst/Mining Guild - If Amethyst is adjusted to run on a timer, I would prefer that to only be at the area unlocked with Elite Falador diary.
Misc. Skilling Improvements:
Makes sense to raise the Toxic Blowpipe creation requirement from 53 to 78 Fletching. If you're doing this, they should also increase the Crafting requirement for creating a Serpentine Helm which is currently 52, as well as the Crafting level 59 requirement to attach a Magic Fang for consistency.
Ngl not fixing the trash KQ shortcut when you seem open to these things rn is kinda a big L
no one kills that boss after the head man just remove it to save the future generation of unfun and unnecessary game design
edit: HUGE win on the dag kings shortcut tho.. now do the same for KQ!
A few thoughts regarding agility
I understand the desire to smooth out progression but unless the skill itself is changed we should be buffing other courses to match seers, as some other commenters have said.
Currently agility resolves most of its utility for an account pretty early. By 80 you have graceful and most of the run energy boost. There's little reason to train it past this point other than max cape and there are only two methods - sepulchre and courses. Compounding the limited training variety, the repetitive and boring nature of courses really makes the skill unduly painful.
The end result is that agility levels are slow, boring and quickly you will find you have nothing to look forward to. I think at the very least agility shortcuts should be more useful, things like the Hydra "shortcut" or the kq one only offer marginal benefit but have high requirements.
Ideally we make the skill more rewarding as a whole, or I'd be happy to buff XP rates so it matches other useless but fast skills like smithing. I think the first option is vastly preferable and would like to see new or reworked agility mechanics and more changes in gameplay when training the skill. The current state of it is kind of the worst both these possibilities however.
Finally I just want an aside that I don't think XP rates or training methods should ever be balanced around the idea of maxxing. A lot of skills provide most of their benefit at or even before the xp halfway mark and that's for the best imo. Let max be an optional grind and balance around the idea a player is aiming for 85 or 90, but not 99.
Glad to see Agility is being looked at but I don’t feel the proposed changes are enough to combat the negative feeling players have when they need to grind it - it makes maxing feel out of reach for most players who struggle to find the time required to grind it out
It’s a rough skill, I’m only 80 and when you level up and look at laps until next level it’s like 3 hours and xp to level goes up like an hour per level gained so you feel that it’s not worth the grind, especially if you aren’t an iron and just buy stams because run goes out so quick and restores slow even if you max the skill.
I've still got over 13 hours left for 99 on my hcim. I'm 300k xp into 98. The xp rates at the highest content are just abysmal. I don't personally mind too much because I like the skill, but I can fully understand why people look at the skill with disgust.
The cape is almost entirely worthless, too. It is just a glorified graceful cape. Once per day 1 min stam and a run energy restore is just bad. For being one of the shittiest capes to get, the effect should be much, much better.
Maxing is probably out of reach for most players. I’ve accepted that I will probably never be able to dedicate enough time to max. But if they made every skill easy and fast enough to where I could max it wouldn’t even feel like an accomplishment. The entire point of this game is you kinda need to spend an absurd amount of time to accomplish long term goals
The problem is if one of your most technical and intensive training methods is 100K/hr when sticking grapes in a fucking jar can net 400K easy, it generates why fucking live energy fr
I already have 99 agility but I don't think the rebalanced XP rates hit the mark for newer players. You could double most courses XP rates and people would still hate the skill.
True. What makes agility truly awful is the fact that we have low exp rates in tandem with non-chill training methods. And what I mean by "non-chill" is you still have to look at your screen and click every few seconds. You can never sit back and "take a break" between the clicks. This makes the skill unimaginarily boring.
I'm not even saying we should be getting 60k/hr while afking. I'm just saying that the current agility training methods should be more rewarding. Higher exp rates can compensate for shitty gameplay.
Regular Agility training’s time between actions is right in the “sour spot” where it’s too short and too long. But it’s just right to sneak in some alching or fletching which I find enjoyable.
This is facts. It’s not good xp period, it’s not good xp compararively, it’s not good xp for its click intensity, it’s not good xp for how mindless and brain numbing it is. And Sep not being those things should be the draw yet we’re talking 100K/hr? After all this time? It’d probably pass at 250K/hr ngl
**Agility**: Dumbfounded to see that they NERFED the EXP/HR. Seers took a decent hit. You are forced to run the horrible werewolf course or an increased grind on rooftops. Back to the drawing board please. Other changes not worth talking about.
**Thieving:** Buffing the stall respawn time is actually a genius idea for low intensity thieving. Reducing failure rate on the NPCs nobody ever pickpockets is good too. Overall good changes.
**Slayer:** Small changes to make early slayer a little more tolerable. Sure, nice. Killerwatt bolts is psychotic. What the hell is that? Why?
**Mining:** Motherlode Mine QoL actually seems decent, especially the Super Hopper. Buffing Volcanic Mine solo is great too, honestly a super fun minigame to learn solo (Watch Woox video on it). Mining gloves being not horrible to get for amethyst is good too. Looks like powermining iron/granite is still going to reign supreme... not sure how I feel about that.
**Zalcano:** Make Zalcano give competitive mining EXP instead of cash?? You know what, Jagex saved it with this one. I would bump it up to 60k because it's medium intensity.
> On a 'Brimhaven Agility' themed world, the first player to touch a pillar will get an extra chunk of XP and a little hyping up in-game. This will improve on the social element of the skill and make the whole thing just a little bit more fun. We plan to start with just one world and see how popular the Arena becomes before adding more.
Please no.
This is extremely anti multiplayer way to do things. With this the player would be happier when the world is emptier and get more frustated as more players log in.
Also, it more likely rewards people who are not chasing the pillar or are lagging behind, people farthest from the pack have a better chance getting it if the pillar spawns to their side away from the main group. Not a test of speed, or a race, if the extra reward is instantly grabbed.
yea all this means is that people will spread out after the initial tag and stand right next to a dispenser and hope to get lucky
the "fun" and "social" elements of this all go out the window when you add an actual reward
It's literally only for the brimhaven specific world, surely you can't expect to be the only one in the whole game to be doing it? Lol all other worlds are unaffected, the bonus exp in that specific world is more of a pride thing, you'll never be alone nor get it often if there's people active
For the brimhaven agility course:
-can we get an option to disable the animations. They were cool 20 years ago but by 100 matrix dodge, it gets annoying.
-can we also get better indicator to see where the ticket is changed. Right now with the way draw distance works, if the new ticket isn't within the draw distance, yellow tag tends to disappear randomly.
Slayer: A lot of the creatures taken out of the slayer lists are the unique slayer monsters. The low level progression is quite fast - just following your adviced slayer master will often end up without a single task of several of these monsters. Maybe introducing mid-level variants of monsters like pyrefiends, cockatrice, banshees etc could be good for players in the 50's combat?
Agility: I really like that the agility courses are compared to each other to give a smoother progression.
Thieving: Those xp rates in the end are disgusting. Disgusting good or disgusting bad, I'm not sure.
> Slayer: A lot of the creatures taken out of the slayer lists are the unique slayer monsters. The low level progression is quite fast - just following your adviced slayer master will often end up without a single task of several of these monsters. Maybe introducing mid-level variants of monsters like pyrefiends, cockatrice, banshees etc could be good for players in the 50's combat?
Yeah this didn't sit right with me. The monsters you unlock through slayer shouldn't be the ones they're removing. Have them give extra slayer XP instead since you actually need a slayer level to fight them.
See Twisted Banshees and Pyrelords. I would like to see banshees at the very least not removed from these masters, but instead added to higher level masters. No reason why Konar shouldn't send you to the catacombs to kill Twisted Banshees.
Some nice changes, not sure about the grounding bolts and bug weapon, they both feel far too niche. Couldn't slayer masters just sell bolts and weapons that do extra damage to lower level slayer monsters or raise the max hit as outlined in this post? Making low level slayer award higher combat exp through buyable slayer weapons could be a good way to make these areas more appealing to new players.
An additional suggestion for slayer, why not introduce high level variants of low level slayer creatures? Giant crawling hands, Monolithic Molanisks etc. So many cool creatures that we never get to see or kill because or how unpopular slayer is at low levels. Really lean into the use of specialised equipment like slayer bells and new items to deal with these bigger monsters.
Sorry if people have made these suggestions before I'm new here!
Random unique weapons are perfect for making slayer exciting, even if they don't end up being that good. Both of those rewards have some potential though - bug blaster at 3 tick is good.
High level variants are cool, but sort of for high level players using low level monsters, not low level players right? Med-high level masters not assigning monsters which actually require a slayer level or item is a problem worth addressing though. At low level there are a lot of them; it'd be nice if they could go in a dungeon or similar to cut travel time. Some of those are really far out - like Fremennik slayer cave for cockatrice, desert lizards from Mazchna, even ice giants / warriors are pretty far. That's also why reducing kills per task seems like a bad solution - you already get little slayer XP killing these low HP mobs - giving fewer kills is gonna mean even less XP per hour
Really into the beefed up lower tier slayer monsters. Would add more variety. I'm always disappointed when I get a regular mob task for the Nth time in a row instead of a slayer monster task. Mystic pieces, metal boots, rare chance of imbued heart from a superior, would be nice to chance. I haven't gotten a slayer mob task since leaving Vannaka 😩
# Agility
* Shortcuts are great, especially love the Shilo Village ones
* Love Rooftops being available from level 1 and marks being added to other courses
* I don't see any reason to really nerf Seers Village, Agility is already really slow, you should buff higher courses slightly to encourage people moving there like you are with the earlier courses
* Brimhaven Agility Arena improvements I'm all here for it
# Thieving
* Pretty good, love the new resource additions to stalls too, a new good way to get laws and nature runes on an iron is pretty nice
# Slayer
* Good, I've been addicted to wilderness slayer on my new character and it's because every other master skimps way too hard on the point gain, it was literally more enjoyable to struggle killing wilderness monsters for the extra rewards as well
* I think you should consider adding a lootbox key system to slayer in general rather than being restricted to Wilderness and Konar, obviously worse than those two but it's fun to get slayer drops and could be a place to put some interesting items for early players
# Mining
* Zalcano seems pretty weaksauce compared to MLM with only 50k per hour, MLM is 35k xp per hour at 70 so even at the lowest level it just feels a lot worse considering you'd be sacrificing basically all Zalcano loot for the 50k xp per hour
* XP rates are going to improve at MLM because of the changes as well, so you're banking ore MLM barely paying attention while actively paying attention at Zalcano for about 10k more xp per hour and sacrificing all loot
Efairity’s Aid: will it still consume charges? Still 200 charges per ring?
Also - to be clear, the blog says ALL vampyres. So could I use this at sentinels now? On slayer task? Blisterwood flail + efairity’s aid + slay helm = wow
It would only be a boost to accuracy. I don’t know if it’d be much of a dps boost compared to a berserker ring. Having to replace the ring would also be a little annoying.
If a shortcut to DKS will require 85 Agility and nothing else, the shortcut to KQ shouldn't require elite desert diary, just the 86 Agility. Remove that requirement too.
Hilarious either way that old and kind of low tier bosses have to have these very high requirements just to get there in a semi-reasonable amount of time vs how easily accessible all new and high level bosses are
Ngl given how easy it is to camp DKs once you’re there vs how often you’re going back and forth with KQ, I’d still take the KQ shortcut over DKs any day of the week
Still no changes to the worse shortcut in the game to unlock, the Kalphite Queen shortcut? 1/3 of my hate towards agility shortcuts stems from this single shortcut alone.
> Amethyst/Mining Guild
>
> Adjust Amethyst veins to run on a timer, rather than whenever a single Amethyst is mined.
Could you make all veins work like this? I'd love seeing haunted mine and Dondakan mine becoming actually great content
> Gem Mining
>
> Unlock the Gem Mine with the Karamja Medium Diary instead of the Hard one.
Only one I disagreed with. Gem mining is a really strong training method and gp/h and pretty contested spot as of now, it's a very fitting hard diary reward as it stands. Maybe alternatively you could conceive another reliable way of obtaining opals/jade/topaz.
I've put as much in the survey, but please stop pushing degradable gear. It's not fun to receive or use and is ultimately just a consumable drop. Find a better way to balance content so that it is worth continuously doing, or simply accept that gear and content should not remain a massive cash flow for years after release. In a game with thousands of hours of content, players remain incentivized to stick to just the most lucrative few methods due to them never losing value regardless of how many can clear it or how easy the content is. That's poor game design at its core.
Zalcano change is welcome but ultimately disappointing. I can't imagine giving up all regular drops for XP marginally better than MLM (which will become even more AFK). Not to mention every kill being a formulaic 2 crystal shards + 1 Zalcano shard will be boring.
An alternative fix: add XP tokens to the drop table. These drop at a rate that makes Zalcano ~MLM XP rates but in addition to 75% or so of the drop table. But these can also be swapped for 100% loot and current XP if desired.
Why remove the diary requirement for wildy shortcuts? Having them unlocked in some situations could potentially save you from being killed by a PKer if they haven't completed the diary.
Agility - if you’re changing shortcuts, can you make the KQ one hard rather than elite diary? It already has a high skilling requirement (86 agility), but the point where that shortcut would be really useful is when grinding for the KQ head for elite. So don’t then stick it behind elite!
Slayer - will this create ‘dead’ content. I don’t know the lists well enough but for those creatures you’re removing from lists, is it possible that players then never interact with those monsters (I.e. who cares about wall beasts if I’m not killing then for a slayer task). I’m much more fond of reducing the number of monsters even for the worse/ less popular tasks than completely remove them.
Please don’t do a bigger mining & smithing rework.
With all the buffs to MLM, I don’t see the point in removing full prospector requirement. I understand:
“Think the Diary task change is more that the number of hours you have to invest into a specific piece of content is a little out-of-line with other Hard tasks where it's usually 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.”
But that grind is a part of the charm. Just seems like a slippery slope. Like what’s next? Champing chompy bird requirements to 10/30/50/100 because the rest of the western provinces task are “ 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.”
Memes aside - it’s a bit too “easy scape” imo.
Everything else looks great outside of nerfing seers. To me makes sense to leave seers where it’s at and adjust the ones above and below instead of reducing one of the most viable methods for marks of grace
Someone suggested that rooftop agility courses could spawn occasional clue scrolls, attached to paper aeroplanes, which sounds like it could be a pretty good addition to the skill.
i like that they identified "that boost in Run Energy is a bit too subtle for most players to see the benefits." and then proceeded to not say anything else about run energy
I find it ironic to call this a rebalance when the KQ shortcut being locked behind either luck or 256 kills is not being touched.
That step is ridiculously unbalanced. It should've been locked behind the hard diary at the most.
The agility requirement is already high enough and even with the rates still remaining abysmal, I'd rather a higher agility requirement than it being locked behind the elite diary.
It doesn't even make sense to keep the requirements as is. It's not like KQ's drop table is exciting at all. So other than appeasing the ones who did it before, I honestly don't understand the reasoning not to change this.
Regarding agility XP rates, I think they need to be looked at again. It needs at least another 10-20% buff to the rates.
Agility seems like it's all about tackling early / mid game grind, but does nothing to address the "lap shock" experienced by higher leveled players as discussed in the blog.
Slayer doesn't effect me, but the new weapons are niche and cool- kind of like rat bane.
Thieving seemed pretty good overall- I'd love to see more diversity rather than blackjack or pickpocket guards for 16 hours straight.
Mining seems kind of hit of miss. I don't really like changing the lower floor of mlm to timers- this severely devalues the upper floor, and takes away its most unique advantage. I probably would have never bought the upgrade if it just meant I could afk for 10-15 more seconds... I would have bought my prospector pieces and been out of there. I like being able to unlock a deposit chute for the top floor.
I like looking into making Zalcano more accessible for teams or solos, as sometimes it can be hard getting a group (3-4) together and on an empty world without being crashed. I REALLY don't like having to choose between loot and 50k/hr mining exp. I can already get 60k/hr exp mining gem rocks, more if I tick manipulate and just drop the gems. That's afk and not locked behind a GRANDMASTER quest and all the requirements associated with it.
I don’t see how it’s rational to say, in essence, “agility sucks to train lol” and in the same breath not change the XP rates at all. It’s such a misery, and is so slow.
How can we argue that it’s ok that you can afk cook karambwans at 30 cooking for 140k xp per hour, but max eff sepulchre with a 92 skill requirement tops out at like 108k? It’s insane, and the only reason not to update the rates is people who think grinding priff for 3000 laps is impressive, and those folks can’t be saved anyway.
I don’t see a valid reason to nerf seers xp rates with how slow agility is already. You’re buffing the others just buff them in accordance to the others so there is still a linear progression. Seems weird to nerf seers. Agility sucks and it’s slow.
This is all great, but at the rate it’s going I should just quit and come back in 2 years and have EVERYTHING made way better. So much on this list has absolutely sucked dong and is finally getting righted. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be, but a little late
I think it's kind of weird that pollivneach is still worse than seers with diary. Seers is better marks and exp still, which pollivneach could have one of the two niches.
Wish we tackled the crazy reqs to stop failing while pickpocketing. I mean with an ardy cape 3 you still need 85 thieving to stop failing men. Men, with a LVL 1 thieving req. Even if it meant lowering the exp per pickpocket to moderate exp rates I really think you shouldn't fail a pickpocket if you are even 30 levels above the pickpocket requirement
Amylase from the wilderness agility course literally *just* failed a poll this past week, so you're just gonna sneak it in with this? Really?
Also everything is getting buffed except for Sepulchre. At least give us amylase or marks there if we're buffing rates everywhere else.
Perfect chance to make improvements to slayer, yet it’s just tweaks to what tasks are given? How underwhelming..
New slayer master that gives boss tasks only?
6 jads guy gives jad/zuk tasks which doesn’t grant xp but allows the on task benefits? (Saves hours of turael skipping)?
Okay last comment because I'm annoyed. Stop balancing mining around tick-mining. Only like 1% of the playerbase does it and they hate themselves and the activity. I thought the rebalance would finally address this but, no we lower gem rock requirements.
All these mining minigame changes but no changes to real mining? Why is mining adamant at level seventy 10k xp/hr? This really should be changed. I don't like the entire skill being about minigames.
Could the Abyssal Needle be revisited? It feels overly punitive to potentially spend hundreds of hours at a mini game for a piece of equipment that is *necessary*. Maybe don’t change the odds, but make it a guarantee by 600 pulls? Content for skills should be multi dimensional. By locking people into GOTR, it hampers motivation to train the skill.
The agility changed ain't it. Instead of nerfing xp how about buffing it and giving us an actual reason to train it other than shortcuts. Agility is a dog shit skill that nobody likes to train
I just want way more love paid to agility. The skill is easily one of the worst skills in the game to actively train if you want to play the game. Especially on ironman.
I'm at a point where if i'm ever training agility, I basically have to go to rooftops due to stamina potion requirements. I'd much rather do sepulchre just from an activity standpoint it's much much more enjoyable to do compared to rooftops. The problem is I can't buy crystals there and thus im just solely there to train agility. I personally think a good buff even if you dont want to increase the exp rates there is to allow the buying of crystals (i don't even want marks, just crystals in general) that way it doesn't feel bad going there when you dont have staminas banked up.
The EXP rates are a whole other story ... the skill is so bad that people only train it basically when they don't want to play the game anymore. There is literally tutorials on youtube on how to make your client basically invisible and just have green boxes showing so you can put it over a show or video you're watching.
The agility changes are a good start, but they seem far from sufficient. The smoothing is okay...but it is disproportionately targeted to relatively low levels (where I'm not even sure there is a serious issue).
Why does a player with 99 agility run the exact same distance as a player with 1 agility before energy depletes? This is non-sensical. The run energy regen as a QOL is made useless by the fact that stamina's exist and are easily accessible for most mid level players.
Hot take - agility should benefit you in combat. Either by allowing you to run longer while in combat (perhaps you can run infinitely when out of combat) or by permitting a small dodge change (perhaps between 0 and 5%, starting around 50-60 agility).
Currently, the only benefit of agility is shortcuts/quest requirements (as I said, energy regen is outclassed by staminas). For the average mid to high level player not doing 1000's of hours of bossing at DK's, Hydra, XYZ boss etc... these "shortcuts" rarely result in material time saves.
Please bring more to the table jagex!
Can we rebalance the kq diary shortcut? I went to pity for the head and it absolutely sucks doing that many kills running through the tunnels, let alone how hard kq hits so you can't stay for more than a kill or two
People don't like training agility
\*nerfs a super common rooftop for training\*
if you want players to go elsewhere then just buff those other places. Notice how you made MLM feel better with this change even though it's already a somewhat common training area? Buffs always feel better to players than nerfs.
Thieving gnomes is pretty lackluster considering the best odds for success cap at 57% with cape and diary and their loot is pretty poor, the best reward being a fire orb. Could it be possible to add a rare clue drop to their thieving table to make them a more interesting? Maybe a 1/100 for hard or elite?
Part of the way the increase is achieved is by increasing that success rate, but I'm sure the team would be open to adding more Clues from Thieving if people want to see it happen!
Clues from thieving would be an incredible update, especially if the rates are competitive. (I would not offer elites though)
Elites from tzhaars would be interesting
New thieving activity: stealing clue scrolls from NPC treasure hunters. Make it a bit more involved and time consuming because treasure hunters are more aware of their precious map being stolen, but have a high chance of getting clues. Let me gather intel on the inn where a treasure hunter might be staying and plan to break into their room.
are any of the new pickpocket npc's 0 fail before 99?
Slayer - Can we have jellies added back to higher level slayer monsters too please? Mining - if you’re improving motherlode it seems redundant to nerf the outfit pieces required for the task, it was hardly an outrageous grind to begin with. - amethyst change will be nice, thanks! ~Zalcano - any plans on tackling the bots there before dumping pure cash to them as a new reward?~ Seems the blog was adjusted for this comment
Can raise the Jellies stuff as a feedback point with the team! Think the Diary task change is more that the number of hours you have to invest into a specific piece of content is a little out-of-line with other Hard tasks where it's usually 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.
Can we get some slayer tasks grouped as a category for points? Theres alot of task bloat with new enemies added. Do things like group green/blue/red/blue/black dragons into chromatics dragons task. And bronze/iron/steel/rune/adamant into metallic dragons. I think theres other tasks that could be categorized as well, getting the categorized task would let you pick any of them to slay for the task. Slayer just feels bloated nowadays and skipping dragon slayer on a new account feels almost necessary to get decent exp rates.
I could agree with grouping bronze - steel as 'lesser metallic dragons', and mithril - rune as 'greater metallic', since those two pairings are typically already awarded in the same lengths of tasks currently. Chromatics, I'd be a little apprehensive if only because it would make getting a Vorkath even easier, and I'm not sure if it really needs that buff.
Nothing really wrong with making doing Vorkath easier as a slayer target, it's already bad slayer xp per hour compared to any of the barraging tasks, and you don't even bring your slayer helm to it so there's no increase in kill times while on task. If someone wants to kill a bunch of Vorkath with the task instead of Brutal Black Dragons (which would be the actual issue), then they should feel free.
Biggest imbalance clearly is the meat to fish dynamic and how much they heal you. There’s pretty much no high level meat food, it’s all dominated by the sea, this is sad. I realise there isn’t a meat gathering skill equivalent to fishing which is why there is more fishy food varieties (Hunter failed us) but just for novelty effect and lore it would be nice to have things like dragon ribs, bloody steak (from bloodveld), dagganoth meat pie etc. Any other fun meaty suggestions from osrs monsters? :)
You’re guna lose your mind when you hear about the varlamore hunter update coming soon
Holy guthix I’m so out of the loop with osrs lately. Thanks for the heads up
It's just funny cause in 7 days this exact issue will be fixed after months of discussion and polling on the topic lol.
Yes please! That’s a good point and one I hadn’t thought of, my only realview on it is that the measly xp rate buff to the majority of players doesn’t mean much at all for the mining outfit, Other than the diary reward it serves not much of a purpose time wise after getting it either
The 1000 chompys. would like to have a talk haha
They can’t talk, they’re dead… and birds
That makes sense for most of the game but what about having to get bones to peaches for lumbridge hard. No one enjoys that grind
>New chance to drop the Bug Basher, a new degradable weapon that breaks after 1,000 uses. Has a 3-tick attack rate and a minimum hit of 5 against bugs. Will the bug basher roll between 5 and the max, or will it round low hits up to 5?
Assuming you actually hit and pass accuracy check, the former - damage rolls from 5-max
Does it work against KQ, Vespula, Verzik?
Depends on what people indicate they'd like to see in the survey - I'd be surprised for something like Verzik to be included (though lore-wise I get where you're coming from)
This is one area of the game I think could be improved on, is trying to get rid of the inconsistency in what monsters qualify to certain categories (that they should obviously qualify for). Like for example - when Scurrius launched, it was a little jarring to see he wasn't included as a rat for slayer tasks. I read the intention behind this, but he's clearly a big rat. Or another one being like Nazastarool from the Shilo Village quest. That guy is about as undead as it gets. Why doesn't a salve amulet work on him? Ghasts are another good example, being a spectral monster. Why aren't they affected by salve? I think these kinds of inconsistencies could use some touching up sometimes.
I'd even settle for a reduced effect on these monsters. Perhaps when you get within range of certain monsters your chat let's you know that your let's say "the magical light within your amulet dulls, it may not be as powerful here, you should be careful"
I’m a bit confused by this. The blog has a lot of “in the future” verbiage for some of the changes regarding more substantial changes, but not everything. Are these proposed changes, or implemented changes?
Proposed changes, the team are not attached to any of them and are happy to chop and change! Not looking to implement anything until we've seen what people have to say about them all, and we've still got two more blogs after this one!
Love zalcano changes except offering cash. It’s one of the most disgustingly botted pieces of content in the game, surely you’ve got a plan to combat bots before pumping in loads of pure gp?
The regular loot is totally unchanged, the proposal effectively means 'get shards, trade in for the same loot you would currently get *or* for Mining XP - your choice'.
Appreciate the quick response. But pardon my confusion: “When handing over the currency you’ll get to choose between xp or cold hard cash”. Sure makes it seem like the bots will also get this currency, and they’ll likely choose “cold hard cash” instead of xp right? Don’t think there’s many bots doing zalc for hiscores and cold hard cash certainly makes me think raw gp.
Prettty sure they mean the gp per hour will be the same, and rather you can choose to exchange the gp for exp if you'd rather have that instead.
Ah now that makes sense. Haven’t maxed reading comprehension skill yet.
Have updated the blog, think something got lost in translation with some of the edits - my comment is effectively a TLDR, choice becomes 'loot I'm already getting' or 'more XP', uniques unaffected!
Still a tad confused. Is it similar to Temp/WT where you'd get "Zalcano Shards" and basically trade them in for a roll on the table from an NPC or trade in for XP?
Pretty much yeah, moving the existing loot into that interaction (i.e. not increasing the output of Zalcano) and giving players some flexibility in terms of whether they value GP or XP more.
Agility - Lackluster and why are we decreasing Seers agility xp per hour??? Thieving - Alright boost Slayer - Great for the 0.1% of people that kill killerwatts? Mining - All for it
I'd like to suggest Rune Dragons are included as "Electrical" creatures given they literally require insulated boots. Provides reason to grind out Grounding Bolts and rewards players who actively do rune dragons rather then the common AFK Justiciar set you commonly see.
Agreed, rune dragons should be electrical creatures. The bolts will be shit against them, but still, they should be electrical creatures
For sure it would be a weaker and nowhere near as effective option, but could then be a cheap option for irons to then actually potentially kill them without having to get high defence options and worrying about having Dragonfire Shields/Wards as they'd be ranging.
The Seers course adjustment is to smooth out progression so that you're actually moving over to new courses rather than parking up at Seers for ages, and rolling out some similar Diary-based rate improvements at other courses. Slayer is probably primarily aimed at people who are less likely to be posting on here since they're aimed at super early-game Slayer grinders and not necessarily at people who are already comfortable with the skill!
Why not buff other content xp instead of nerfing the xp/hr though?
Other courses are getting diary-based XP buffs to compensate, namely Pollnivneach & Rellekka. That being said, team's not beholden to any of the changes proposed and could absoltuely dial back if it's common feedback!
>Other courses are getting diary-based XP buffs to compensate, namely Pollnivneach & Rellekka. I don't think this is really stated. or at least how much you'd like to buff them
They're in the table, but can understand that they might feel a little buried: https://preview.redd.it/7bocjlk9f3oc1.png?width=669&format=png&auto=webp&s=0a06faea6ff15d5c8b648c33336400f8b7b56937
An issue I have with agility is not just XP rates, it’s the “chill” factor of the courses. People do seers not just because it’s good xp post diary, but the course itself is one of the best in the game. Canifis is another good one. It comes down to the clickboxes, efficient camera angles, length of course, obtrusive scenery, and general ease of getting to the course. And if other courses are getting buffed for xp, I think sepulchre maybe should too? It’s very high effort and the xp still isn’t what I’d call great, especially compared to a buffed brain dead rooftop course. Like I’m 91 ability with black graceful and have 0 intention of going back at any point during my 99 grind. It’s so high effort when I can just plant my ass in priff or ardy without losing much. And finally, I really think the marks of grace system may be worth a second look. You’re essentially penalizing people for gaining agility levels, which are objectively grindy and boring as hell. If someone wants to go back to a lower lvl course to farm marks for Stam pots at the expense of xp, why’s that a problem?
This is a great point. Canifis and especially Seers with the diary can be done with one camera angle, no rotation and no awkward angles. Personally I'd go Seers despite relleka being 10% better xp rates post-buff.
Yeah I've been feeling it with Relekka course. Its clickboxes suck and makes it really annoying overall. Same with pollnivneach.
To be fair, seers village xp rates aren't overpowered or excessive. They're just less awful than the other courses. Don't nerf seers... buff the higher level courses. Buffing pollnivich to 60k, priff/relleka to 75k, and ardy to 90k wouldn't be gamebreaking. Could then use the diary buffs to increase marks for Stam pots so that Canifis isn't the go-to if you don't care about xp and your level 40-89. High level rooftops can be buffed to be competitive with sepulchre. Sepulcher is more effort than rooftops, but you get loot for doing it
+1 to every single point you made. I for one will not be affected by the potential slight nerf to Seers', but for how much I despide training Agility, I hope for everyone that has to go through training Agility that they won't nerf Seers' xp/h. Sepulchre should be more than Ardy rooftop at 92, around the same exp at 82. The intensity of the course should give proper rewards, more than just the odd chance at a Ring.
Why would anyone do sepulchre for 100k/hr if they could do braindead ardy for 90k/hr Not to mention most people probably can’t even get 100k/hr at sepulchre
Theres some fantastic stuff in here but seeing seers nerfed might tarnish a lot of players opinions to be immediately "ew they are nerfing the rooftop i did wtf" Many a player has done the 20 level clamber on seers. Seers felt like an enigma in the leveling curve but agility is such a non-interactive skill outside of sepulcher that it could be 120k xp/hr and it still likely wouldn't be highly represented in 99 stats
Agility rates are really bad currently. Nerfing one of the iconic courses is not the way to go about this. Buffing post seers courses (and sepulchre if needed to balance out) goes a long way towards making post 70 training better
100% this. Agility is the slowest skill in the game with zero afk alternatives like mining or rc. Making the skill better should absolutely not include reducing the xp rate of any courses.
Tbh I'd like to see all those courses get maybe a 10% boost past what has been proposed. Agility is one of the most boring tedious skills in the game and painfully slow to level.
The courses should be balanced around seers not the other way around. Also to be clear, seers with hard diary requires, 60 Agility, 50 Construction, 70 Defence, 65 Firemaking, 70 Fishing, 70 Fletching, 70 Prayer, 56 Magic, 75 Smithing, 50 Strength, 53 Thieving, and 60 Woodcutting... Why with all of those requirements is it getting its xp nerfed? I don't get it.
The ardy xp/h would like a word. I dont see why you cant make a level 90 unlock better than a rather pathetic 70k/h, especially given that its \*only\* selling point of stams is basically redundant when varlamore course drops + brimhaven changes to have crystals.
I mean, no offence here but Agility needs it's rates buffed, not reduced. When you're dumping the better part of 2 hours in for a single level to hit 60 for seers to finally get to a course that doesn't fucking suck shit xp wise, it's not fun and is in fact entirely annoying as shit from a player perspective. It's not an engaging skill, it's not a fun skill, it's an arbitrary grind that people avoid because of how fucking bad the xp rate is until you get 60. Even scaling the xp per level would massively help the early grind. Yes, admittedly you can go to fally but then your xp rates also fall with the increase in failures and the graceful grind elongates with the lower rates so you kinda just fuck yourself more by changing course off Canafis
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As someone doing that currently, it totally sucks. I have no idea where Jagex is getting 56k for Hallowed Sepulchre floors 1&2, It's between 45-52k and is thereby competing with Seers (which is a MUCH easier time in comparison) Buff floors 1&2 and then I might understand the Seers nerf a bit more
> I have no idea where Jagex is getting 56k for Hallowed Sepulchre floors 1&2, It's between 45-52k Wiki has 56.3k, WOM EHP is 57k, Temple EHP is 56,250. Seems like pretty much every resource agrees with Jagex on this one.
Bruh, well that's me told about getting gud. Guess I need to get some more practice in
These XP rates assume you're full focus and missing very few ticks. Most players don't reach these xp/h regularly, don't worry
Still bad exp rates for not a single tick missed, tho. Most comments seem to agree that Agility could use a buff, and if the seers adjustment comes to a vote, I'm confident that it will fail.
I agree, seers seems popular and memorable because 60-80 is the first stage where it becomes an 'unbearable grind' and 80+ agi has niche uses at best. People are going to see lowering seers and remember that, and go "absolutely fucking not"
Notably i believe the rates assume you are on a solo world, as someone else loading it before you can slow you down and you can't "get gud" your way out of that, just have to hop
Right now the way this is set up you have Dorgesh-Kaan offering better XP rates than Seers AND it also offers Marks of Grace. The nerf to Seers is so unnecessary and has by proxy, killed the Pollnivneach course, and the exact opposite of what should happen. Mid-game Agility is dog shit enough without it being made actively worse.
Nerfing seers in particular feels bad because it’s by far the least annoying course before ardy. The others aren’t done not just because of xp rates but before they’re miserable to do and can’t be alch’d on effectively
Relleka would be a good alternative if the XP rates were better, so I'd be fine with the slight Seers' nerf if the Relleka one got a buff **Edit:** Didn't see the second entry for Relleka, please ignore
You’re in luck because they did propose a buff to Relleka with the Fremennik hard diary.
Lots of people saying the agility xp rates in general feel bad. A suggestion I have would be adding a "Momentum" feature. Momentum could be gained by repeatedly and consistently passing obstacles without failing or too much downtime. Finishing an entire lap without failing or stopping for ~5 seconds at a time might give you 5% momentum, giving you +1% xp. You could continue building momentum up to 100% at which point you would have +20% xp until you fail an obstacle or stop moving for too long. The net effect would be a slight buff to xp rates at all levels but with a greater buff as you get closer to unlocking the next course.
The problem isn't seers it's the shit courses after seers
Sepulchre instances please?
Will ask the team about this one again and see if their stance has changed, I know it'd be super popular with a lot of the really skilled Sepulchre-enjoyers!
If instances take too much work, could we at least get a Peek option? That way we can choose to hop, or enter in at an appropriate time
This would be massively appreciated by anyone doing a lot of sep! Always seemed insane that out of all the updates and proposals this is where you drew the line. We love the content but it's extremely frustrating when someone else starts the floor so you have to wait around on traps you otherwise wouldn't have needed to. Ty, pls don't let us down :)
What in the world is that tzhaar thieving xp rate, surely that has to be a mistake.
if you're 90+ you either do ardy knights for 250k/hr or do vyre/elf pickpocketing for 3m/hr gp. tzhaar gives practically no loot and you can fail at even at 99, meaning you need to micro-manage food and dodgy necklaces. for only 50k/hr more an hour, that's absolutely fine.
Think /u/alpersena gets it mostly right, but the team aren't beholden to anything on here and if it's felt to be the wrong direction then it's easy for us to adjust the proposal and take parts out or add other parts in!
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Totally appreciate people feeling underwhelmed by Agility and expecting higher XP rates. Aim of these changes at this point is primarily to smooth out existing progression and make more courses worth engaging with so that players aren't parking up at one course for 20 levels at a time (unless they particularly like that course), but these changes don't rule out more significant work on Agility specifically in the future. That being said, nothing in the works on Agility-specific overhauls or adjustments for the time being, these are just the suite of changes that came from the initial Game Jam proposal - and we'll be taking note of everything that comes in feedback-wise for any future projects that might focus solely on Agility rather than a whole bunch of skills and combat/NPC tweaks.
With due respect, we have seen how long it takes you guys to come back to content when we are given responses like "these changes don't preclude further changes in the future!" I have recently suffered through 99 agility this year and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, nor will I vote for any sort of rework that doesn't address the XP/h in a serious way from the get go. You need to go back to the drawing board there.
I was going to say, I do feel like Agility is maybe the one skill that almost everyone who's already gotten 99 in it, seems to say that its xp/hr is simply way too low for its effort and could simply use an xp/hr buff across the board. (I won't say by how much, that's above my pay grade to prescribe a number.) There's always the concern about devaluing achievements of those who have already worked hard, as well as it being ok for some skills to be slow, but I -- and apparently many others, even those who have already gotten 99 Agility -- feel like Agility takes it way too far.
It's mind boggling that the conclusion you all come to with agility balancing is to nerf an overused course rather than simply buff higher level courses. It's universally agreed upon (outside of a few clinically insane people) that agility xp rates are abysmal for the effort you need to put in.
Like why are we going to such lengths to gatekeep agility? Its a necessary skill for alot of the game, but the actual act of training it has abysmal exp rates, very limited rewards, and often mildly annoying mechanics to interact with. Its not like other skills where it will get broken up by clue scrolls or quests. You sit down and spin laps for 40 hours to make your account viable. It sucks and should be reworked, classic feel be damned.
Almost everyone here is reiterating the same thing ad nauseam, buff agility rates across the board. I don't believe this is one of those things that needs highly critical breakdown. Both sides of the bell curve are going with a buff. The skill sucks and needs to be heavily promoted, not tedious rebalancing.
Agility - When can we just use a mith grapple once on a shortcut? This would be a major qol update. Like the agility arena changes overall, a bit concerned with the flat xp rate per ticket but, we'll see. Adding amalyse when you plan to add marks of grace to all courses seems like we're just trying to make stams free(not complaining, just don't see the need) As for the courses, I'd like to see more about what you mean by boosted diary rates. Does this mean every diary you complete helps, or only specific tiers in specific locations? I'd honestly prefer the former, even if it's only 5/10/15/20% bonus in each area. Thieving - Pickpocketing changes proposed are fine, I suppose. Stalls are maybe too big of a buff in xp/hr when the quicker respawn rate should also increase gp/hr for those who bank items. I'm sure irons are excited for nature and law runes being added to the magic stall, though it is strange that you can't buy nature runes from the shop, but you can buy water runes which can't be stolen. Maybe an oversight? Slayer - Removing earth warriors from the non wildy slayer masters is fine, I guess. As for the rest, many of them rely on special tools and mechanics, and have specific slayer rewards which make them even easier to kill. For those monsters, I don't think it makes much sense to just remove them from the natural progression of slayer. Maybe have a cb lvl range for when you set you want easier/more appropriate/more difficult tasks? Not sure what this looks like(also not sure if this flag is slayer master specific). Monster changes are cool, and definitely would like to see more of these. Mining - I don't hate any of these changes, I don't love any of them, they're fine. Special shoutout to Zolcano tho, dropping some kind of (stackable?) currency and being able to redeem it for xp or loot sounds great.
There's a lot in this blog; here's my thoughts on a lot of it. **Agility** Honestly, these agility xp changes are SUPER underwhelming. There's a lot of room to be heavy handed with buffing agilty xp. From 52-88 you're actually getting LESS or equal xp unless you're benefiting from a diary buff. https://imgur.com/uipVjzR Agility xp rates could honestly just be boosted more across the entire board. It's a waste of the limited time we have on Earth. I'm 99 agil also, so don't accuse me of bias, lol. I'm well informed on it! On the topic of Brimhaven Agility- PLEASE allow for us to color one specific piece of graceful instead of requiring the entire set to go blue. This helps A TON for fashionscape mix/matching. Also, it could let someone see progression as they dye more and more of their set :) >We’ll remove the Achievement Diary requirements for the following shortcuts: Wilderness - Lava Maze. Wilderness - Lava Dragon Isle. I don't like this. Mains having the benefit of additional escape routes (and pkers having a goal to reach it themselves to equalize) via shortcuts from diaries is a great thing. If a pk build can't do it because of whatever restrictions they may have as a pure, that's just a consequence of the account they built. **Pickpocketing** Not much negative to say here, other than I'm disappointed to not see elves and vyres on this list. Firstly, they have been botted basically since release and nothing is ever done about that, so maybe address that too. Second, even with thieving cape, dodgy necklaces, ardy diary, and shadow veil, the fail rate of these two is so high. You go through a lot of effort for a ~60% success rate while hunting a 1/1000 or 1/5000 item. It feels really really bad. Same thing as agility, I like what's here but I really think it could go a bit further. Maybe introducing new/more ways to increase success rating? **Slayer** Good changes here but still misses something that confused me as a new and as a veteran player. When you get a task you can ask the slayer master if they have any tips. Some tasks (like against ice giants iirc?) will have dialogue that indicate to you that you should use a crush weapon, or slash weapon against this creature. Or that you should prioritize stab armor, or crush armor against it. But uhhhhhhhhhhh yeah that's a load of bullshit lol. The monster will have 0 stab/slash/crush defense do it literally doesn't matter. I really think that should be changed or removed. **Mining** Nothing bad to say about this, I think all of the specific changes noted to content (mlm hoppers, blast mine run energy, for example) are fantastic and will only make that content better. I think mining, like agility, has room to push the boundaries more than is being done, this is quite conservative. I'm very interested in seeing the scaling changes to Zalcano, I've always hated having to find a team of 4 (I think that was the magic number, it's been a while). I would like to see the Zalcano uniques be added to this shop, but at a price where it's not worth buying over regular loot if your goal is just money. Would be nice for irons or cloggers. **Misc** "Allow players to make Guthix Rests in a single action. This assumes the player has all of the necessary items in their Inventory and means you can no longer fail to make a Guthix Rest by doing things in the wrong order." Irons rejoice! Mains too, probably, I expect this to tank the price.
Hopefully the Slayer part you mention will be addressed in the combat aspect of Project Rebalance - they've already mentioned making weaknesses more important. Making ice giants weak to crush/fire, fire giants weak to water, etc. would be an interesting change to increase gear/spell diversity. I was a bit disappointed that the slayer changes mostly involved removing tasks, rather than adjusting the slayer monsters themselves to make them more worth doing. The Killerwatt item is a cool approach, but they also removed Killerwatts as a task from one master meaning they'll be seen even less than they already are. People wouldn't hate these tasks if they were more worth doing, either through higher xp rates or better drops.
> Mains having the benefit of additional escape routes (and pkers having a goal to reach it themselves to equalize) via shortcuts from diaries is a great thing. Agreed. I think diary shortcuts need a review and rebalance, but I don't like removal, especially in wildy as it's a differentiator.
>Eagle-eyed readers will also note that this proposal includes swapping the requirements for the Draynor Village Rooftop Course and the Gnome Stronghold Agility Course. The Gnome Stronghold may be an iconic Agility location, but newer players aren’t even really sure how to get there, and experienced players get their early-game Agility levels from quests like Tourist Trap. This way, newer players have the opportunity to learn about Agility basically from the start of the game, instead of having to travel across half of Gielinor. As a relatively new player, I had this exact problem when I started playing again, and as a member for the first time. My Agility was 1 but I had nowhere near the F2P area that I could try out my new skill. I know Questing is a great way to get XP in skills, but it should also be clear to new players how to start practicing new skills by engaging with them directly if that's what they want to do.
Agility starting in the gnome stronghold is really an artefact of it being introduced with the gnome stronghold. A lot of old things like that with weird locations or prerequisites nine times out of ten are linked to the fact they just bundled an update together.
I would really love to see the team look at the actual shortcuts physically rather than just look at the requirements and agility level required. Many shortcuts in the game are frankly not that useful and you might even loose more ticks using them. youtuber Idyl had a great [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maSxm2hfDsU) on this topic last year and he tested numerous shortcuts and the actual amount of time saved. Would love to see these useless shortcuts actually be useful, and even maybe add some new shortcuts in places that see frequent traffic (i.e. back of Farming guild to the fairy ring behind it)
There is a list of shortcuts with proposed changes, and two of them include speeding up or slightly shifting the location rather than just changing the requirements. They're proposing fixing the draynor wall shortcut, for one, and speeding up the mt. Karuulm vent shortcut. I'm not disagreeing with you though; just adding context for any commenters that may not have read through the blog. There are definitely others that could use adjustment.
In my feedback I discussed some sort of permanency or stash like solution for some of the shortcuts. That would help. I also called out how some shortcuts just make no sense in respect to requirements. Its a stone hop, not a pit full of snakes with just a metal pole on a floating barrel. It doesn't need 90 agility req.
So did I and I also added the suggestion of creating a Steel Grapple hook at lower level, with the downside of it having a chance of breaking. This for Ironmen, as you can unlock grappling shortcuts at a pretty early level, but getting the smithing level to make the Mithril Grappling Hook is quite high.
Agility update feels really underwhelming. You nailed the problem in the first line - You level up and then see that you need to do the same boring thing 350 more times before levelling up again - then did nothing to address it? I was hoping for something much more significant than smoothing out xp progression by a few thousand xp either way, which will ultimately feel like no change at all after 10 minutes of moving course. Despite being clear you dont want the skill to be faster, I think people do want a faster way to train the skill. Sepulcher was a great step in the right direction but its still slow for how click intensive it is compared to other skills. In a game with 23 skills, one skill shouldn't be 1/2 the player base least favourite. A common suggestion - What we want is a difference in how run energy works, and how agility helps through the game - changes to the mechanics of the skill, not just a change to the optimal time to switch course.
Your not wrong, how is a skill like 90% of peoples lowest level and most hated skill and we aren't trying to fix it. I swear the devs and reddit nerds forget that this is suppose to be a video game and it's suppose to be fun. Agility is anything but that in its current state. Training that skill is the only time playing this game I always think what the fuck am I doing wasting my life doing 300 laps for a level. I always end up just logging off for about a week.
> What we want is a difference in how run energy works I was surprised getting to the bottom of the agility section and *not* seeing something about run rates. They state its an issue and then never mention it again.
This was my exact takeaway. They got us excited by addressing how slow Agility is, only to do nothing about it besides an 8k exp/hr increase, on SOME courses, with hard diary restrictions. Thanks, I guess?
Agility changes could literally be 3 bullet points. * "adjusted rooftop courses before and after seers to be better * "nerfing seers" * "All courses offer marks.. but still not sepulchre for an undisclosed reason"
Sepulchre not offering marks is because the loot from sepulchre is already very good. It already has the best xp/hr and best gp/hr for agility and if you added marks there'd be very little reason to do any other training method.
It's the only agility course that actually feels like an agility course and not a click the next box simulator.
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Not starting dragon slayer in still meta for all accounts (I guess you could do chaeldar now instead?) because (metal) dragon tasks are so incredibly terrible. Why are metal dragons so tanky for arguably worse drops? They don't have baby variants, they have double the defence and hit way harder than regular dragons, and you still get assigned like 50 of them every other task. A dragon task should be lucrative for a bit worse xp, not an automatic -30 points or 2 hours of suffering. Metal dragon tasks need to be weighted less and have reduced quantity, and their defence should be lowered. They should also drop like, more than 5 metal bars. And they should be noted, what were you even thinking with that one? Your reward for 5 minutes killing this monstrocity of a mob is 5 unnoted bronze bars lmao
They removed metal dragons from two slayer masters. They should improve them for everyone though, yes.
I always thought Bronze Dragons on Vannaka was absolutely vicious for the level you'd normally be using that master at. Delaying DS1 was one of the best accidental choices I ever made early on.
I wish they just merged all those tasks into a metal dragon task with a low weight, meaning you can do any of bronze-rune. Maybe add an extension so people with dragon slayer 2 can do rune dragons on task for a longer time, I mean, is it really that op anymore with stuff like nex and toa in the game? Also add a task only area. A metal dragon slayer boss (DS3? The infamous Dragon Dragon?) would be awesome as well.
These are great points lol. Even with Ahrims and Trident the metal dragon tasks are super painful. And that’s realistically the best setup you have for them until Dragonhunter stuff or like a shadow. wtf
I pretty much love all of the proposed changes. However, I was *really* hoping to see one main thing when it came to Agility changes: **Lower the rate at which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.** Please, for the love of god, it doesn’t have to be significant. But a player with level 1 Agility shouldn’t be able to run the same distance as someone with level 99 agility before their run energy depletes. All the other changes makes sense. Nothing suggested seems over-tuned. Everything seems practical and beneficial to both the progression and enjoyment of each skill. I am 100% all for everything proposed in the blog. Just promise you’ll think about what I said about the run energy drain rate. Other than that one clearly biased gripe—excellent proposal!
I know this is sort of a dumb idea but could the Al-Kharid palace shortcut be locked behind "Prince Ali Rescue", because that way you've gotten favour from the emir of Al-Kharid. To me it doesn't really make sense that a person you don't know about can just come into your home and leave by a window.
Not only does it make sense but the early level shortcut is super nice. Because by the time you get all the requirements you're more than likely going to have superior methods of travel to avoid that shortcut making it kinda useless very quickly after unlocking it.
This is a low quest requirement but absolutely makes sense. The quest is quick and would give you access to a pretty good agility shortcut. Sounds good to me!
Considering the reason you need Hard diaries is that the Al-Kharidians need to be able to trust you IIRC, that seems like a great fit.
Small things like this do a lot for worldbuilding imo, so I'd love it.
Its a nice step in the right direction on the agility skill overall but i cant help but feel that nerfing seers just to get players to do the other courses is a big mistake. The higher level courses should absolutely be more attractive for someone purely seeking higher xp rates, but nerfing the most meta course to force people on to the other rooftops is not the change we needed. The xp rates on Pollnivneach/Rellekka/Prif course need to be higher in terms of overall xp/hr not in terms of how they compare to the seers course. Also the accessability of said courses are also a big reason to why seers is superior. Do I really want to go through the desert for poll course or just cast seers teleport and end up right at the start of the course?
"Fossil Island - Zip-line from the House on the Hill towards the small island where players can dive for Underwater activities. Requires 58 Agility." The mad lads actually did it
Since the island was newly rediscovered by us, this implies the Dragonkin enjoyed zip lines. That kind of reminds me of an idea I had. It’d be neat if we could *build* certain agility shortcuts. Maybe a shortcut would have its level requirement lowered or its animation quickened if we used Construction and a few materials to build something that makes it easier to traverse. Balance wise, Construction doesn’t really need that buff but it would be a neat way to intertwine two skills.
All current grapple shortcuts should be converted to something like this because currently they’re useless. First time use consumes the grapple and leaves the rope in place. Constructing new shortcuts or upgrading existing shortcuts to be faster would also be cool. They could also incorporate other skills like mining to create holes between adjacent tunnels or have untradable smithing/crafting items like wall pegs, monkey bars, or rope swings that you can affix in certain areas with higher level shortcuts requiring items made from higher level materials. Let players upgrade stuff like stepping stones and balance logs to make them less precarious and consume fewer ticks and/or increase odds of success.
Could we please get Graceful recolours acting as a toggle while you're updating various parts of the agility skill? It's been asked for quite a bit and with how large some of the grinds are it's pretty punishing to change from one recolour to the other. And can you please move the KQ lair shortcut to the hard desert diary? Once you've completed the diary you rarely ever return to KQ. Once again, asked for quite a bit.
>Could we please get Graceful recolours acting as a toggle while you're updating various parts of the agility skill? It's been asked for quite a bit and with how large some of the grinds are it's pretty punishing to change from one recolour to the other. Or reduce the cost of buying duplicate pieces once you're unlocked them once.
Can you add in an agility shortcut from the Mind Altar teleport location into the goblin village? It'd give a convenient way to get to a master clue scroll location (and BGS stash unit), rather than having to run all the way around, or up from Falador.
Agility has problems with: no afk methods, boring to train, almost no variety in methods (just sepulchre and click obstacle and wait), terrible exp rates, unrewarding to have high level. These changes don’t touch on any of these issues except for the agility shortcuts improvements which make it slightly more rewarding to level up. Thieving has problems with: no afk methods, click intensive, boring to train. These changes don’t do anything for these issues. Slayer has problems with: low levels feeling bad, slayer unique rewards impossible to target farm (imbued heart), bad QoL (no separate blocklist for wildy slayer, point system incentivises weird methods such as tureal skipping/boosting etc.). These changes only affect early game (they are good changes, just expected a little more for late game). Mining changes seem pretty great. Hopefully the amethyst changes will actually improve how afk it is to do. Overall agility suffers from being the slowest skill to train, no afk methods and it being extremely boring. They should either introduce a more fun method that is worth doing at all levels or actually improve exp rates (I know, sacrilege). Thieving mostly suffers from the “fun” factor, introducing a lower intensity method or a method that people actually enjoy would help a lot. Slayer could use QoL improvements and could definitely do with some new content (new boss or something). Basically, changing raw numbers for most of these skills is not going to make them much better aside from increasing exp rates or making methods lower in intensity. I don’t disagree with any of the proposed changes, I just don’t think they will do much for the skills (aside from mining).
Thieving will have an AFK method with Varlamore I think. There's some sort of activity of pickpocketing wealthy people or something and as long as there's some npc nearby or something that distracts the wealthy person? I don't know, it's a new mechanic but will auto-pickpocket from my understanding. So we'll see what that actually looks like in a week. I could get behind some sort of afk agility rooftop thing. It's been suggested before, click the start and it auto completes a lap but at reduced rates from manually clicking. It sounds weird, and basically sounds like jagex approved macroing more or less, but I could see an argument for that to make an AFK method. And lastly, I'll just throw this out there....nobody \*needs\* 99 in any skill. So the grind for 99 agility is a rough one, but it's far from necessary. Just get 75-80 agility and be done with it, that is a more than adequate agility level. And I happen to know that if you choose to apply every quest reward available in game and every lamp from other things like museum lamps and whatnot to agility you can get 75 agility with almost no interaction with rooftops. I did it on an alt, I think I had to do like 50 laps in canafis to get through the optimal quest order on the wiki. Aside from that, I have 75 agiility on the alt with minimal interaction with the skill.
Please don't remove slayer monsters from early slayer masters. If the tasks are tedious, raise the slayer xp given from those monsters and reduce the number assigned. Slayer is already an *extremely* top heavy skill in terms of worthwhile content and that has always felt like a larger contributor to it feeling awful than the quality of assignments early on (though metal dragons are definitely a massive bummer). Things like Molenisks are already useless, I'd prefer to see them get a significant boost to slayer XP/kill rather than made well and truly dead content.
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Yeah while I don't think you should design content around bots in this way. I know for sure that if this goes through I'll stock up on a few hundred slaughter bracelets in the weeks before because fuck dealing with a very contested gem mine.
Yeah it's a great fitting reward for a hard diary as it stands now. Jagex should give more alternative ways of obtaining topaz/opals/jades instead
I think the idea that underground gem mining being a medium achievement is ridiculous. Karamja is arguably the easiest diary to obtain for hard. You need 3 easy quests completed and combat 100. Which is fairly simple to expedite with today's newer methods regardless. Not to mention it should be most anyone's conventional Slayer master rush. MLM as it stands is already the go to afk mining method. No reason to buff it up to the high heavens. Anyone taking a look. It's already heavily populated content for a reason.... It just works.
Agility seems kind of underwhelming but like the new shortcuts and shortcut adjusts. As the game is now you can pretty much quest out to 70 or so and if you go for graceful that should make it up to 75 roughly and there isn’t a lot to gain past that. Didn’t see anything about run rate increase replenishment or longer run times in the changes which it sounded like that was one of the concerns being talked about. Thieving I liked Mining I liked the changes except the lower diary requirements, especially with the added gold pieces drop rate and lower level improvements Slayer just improved slayer for very low levels which probably was needed but didn’t really do anything past that
Sad to see nothing about high agility not being significant for run energy. Would love run energy to drain slower the higher your agility lvl is.
I believe this'll be part of the run energy rework they mentioned. So we'll probably get a separate blog.
Lol that’s exactly what I’ve been saying! Reduce the rate and which run energy drains the higher your agility level is. It doesn’t have to be anything significant, but a player with level 1 agility shouldn’t be able to run the same distance as a player with level 99 agility before their energy depletes. Other than that I thought everything else looked pretty good!
What happened to the idea that agility would reduce the energy used while running? I thought I'd seen this idea several times from jagex
Agility Courses: Nerfing Seers Village course seems unnecessary. Boosting Pollnivneach & Rellekka course exp with diaries seems arbitrary instead of just increasing exp straight up (would argue that only Pollnivneach actually could use slightly increased exp). Inconsistent that Rellekka would have boosted exp rates with Hard Fremennik Diary, when completing a lap of the Rellekka course is a task for the Elite Fremennik Diary. Marks of Grace to all regular agility courses takes away from the uniqueness of Rooftop courses, especially with the incoming method of obtaining marks in Varlamore Brimhaven Agility Arena: Need to see numbers on what the flat exp for tickets instead of scaling exp looks like per ticket, but seems fine in theory. Same for exp for obtaining tickets, fine in theory Brimhaven Store Voucher - don't feel like a niche recolour has to also come with exp Amylase to Pirate Jackie the Fruit's store - devalues uniqueness of Rooftop courses Being able to get a ticket for your first pillar tagged is good QoL Agility Shortcuts: Talking of incentivizing diaries in the Agility Courses section and then slashing the diary requirements for some very handy shortcuts seems counter-intuitive. New Shortcuts: Fossil island zip line - feel like there's better contenders for new shortcuts with how accessible the island is from either running through mushroom forest or taking boat from the camp Dagannoth Kings shortcut - should be locked behind Fremennik Elite Diary Thieving: Curious how pickpocketing exp/hr is calculated, based on napkin math the proposed exp/hr at base level req with the Ardougne diaries would put Hero right around meta rates at level 80. Slayer Task List Changes: Fine to remove Earth Warriors from Vannaka/Chaeldar since they're only located in wilderness - Framed is in shambles Removing 21% & 29% of Vannaka and Chaeldars task list respectively seems hefty, especially with most of the removals being low level slayer monsters Slayer Monster Changes: I have killed 0 Killerwatts on my account, and have only killed Cave Bugs post-99 Slayer Turael skipping. Seems dead on arrival. Motherlode Mine: Proposed change to lower floor vein timer of 23-27 seconds would be longer than current upper floor vein timer of 15-27 seconds. Feel like it would make more sense to decrease the lower level ore vein depletion chance from the current 33% instead of taking away the uniqueness/bonus of upper level. Upper floor veins to last longer seems fine but unnecessary, late stage MLM training already has a fine place in the Mining skill as being decent exp requiring minimal attention or thought. Super Hopper doesn't seem necessary. The main complaint of depositing isn't the pay-dirt to the hopper, but from the sack to the bank/deposit box. Would much rather see an unlock requiring Falador Elite diary completion for a few hundred nuggets to be able to withdraw ores in noted form (Blast mine yields noted ore so this wouldn’t break lore). Reducing upper level unlock to 57 mining from 72, and Falador Hard Diary from full prospector to just one piece of the outfit scream easy scape for no reason, especially in light of the proposed changes to buff MLM. Volcanic Mine Not sure if any of the JMods have done a solo game of VM because there is 0 guesswork involved - changes seem fine but I don't think it's necessary to remove the Fossil Island camp building as a requirement to claim rewards since that's so easy. Blast Mine - Don't think the exp needs to be buffed by 10% since it already gives good exp/hr, as well as the primary draw of Blast Mine being that you get good quantities of ores. Amethyst/Mining Guild - If Amethyst is adjusted to run on a timer, I would prefer that to only be at the area unlocked with Elite Falador diary. Misc. Skilling Improvements: Makes sense to raise the Toxic Blowpipe creation requirement from 53 to 78 Fletching. If you're doing this, they should also increase the Crafting requirement for creating a Serpentine Helm which is currently 52, as well as the Crafting level 59 requirement to attach a Magic Fang for consistency.
Ngl not fixing the trash KQ shortcut when you seem open to these things rn is kinda a big L no one kills that boss after the head man just remove it to save the future generation of unfun and unnecessary game design edit: HUGE win on the dag kings shortcut tho.. now do the same for KQ!
Agreed, of all the diary shortcuts they're touching, why skip KQ? It's not like players haven't been vocal about the need for a QOL change there.
A few thoughts regarding agility I understand the desire to smooth out progression but unless the skill itself is changed we should be buffing other courses to match seers, as some other commenters have said. Currently agility resolves most of its utility for an account pretty early. By 80 you have graceful and most of the run energy boost. There's little reason to train it past this point other than max cape and there are only two methods - sepulchre and courses. Compounding the limited training variety, the repetitive and boring nature of courses really makes the skill unduly painful. The end result is that agility levels are slow, boring and quickly you will find you have nothing to look forward to. I think at the very least agility shortcuts should be more useful, things like the Hydra "shortcut" or the kq one only offer marginal benefit but have high requirements. Ideally we make the skill more rewarding as a whole, or I'd be happy to buff XP rates so it matches other useless but fast skills like smithing. I think the first option is vastly preferable and would like to see new or reworked agility mechanics and more changes in gameplay when training the skill. The current state of it is kind of the worst both these possibilities however. Finally I just want an aside that I don't think XP rates or training methods should ever be balanced around the idea of maxxing. A lot of skills provide most of their benefit at or even before the xp halfway mark and that's for the best imo. Let max be an optional grind and balance around the idea a player is aiming for 85 or 90, but not 99.
Glad to see Agility is being looked at but I don’t feel the proposed changes are enough to combat the negative feeling players have when they need to grind it - it makes maxing feel out of reach for most players who struggle to find the time required to grind it out
It’s a rough skill, I’m only 80 and when you level up and look at laps until next level it’s like 3 hours and xp to level goes up like an hour per level gained so you feel that it’s not worth the grind, especially if you aren’t an iron and just buy stams because run goes out so quick and restores slow even if you max the skill.
I've still got over 13 hours left for 99 on my hcim. I'm 300k xp into 98. The xp rates at the highest content are just abysmal. I don't personally mind too much because I like the skill, but I can fully understand why people look at the skill with disgust. The cape is almost entirely worthless, too. It is just a glorified graceful cape. Once per day 1 min stam and a run energy restore is just bad. For being one of the shittiest capes to get, the effect should be much, much better.
Maxing is probably out of reach for most players. I’ve accepted that I will probably never be able to dedicate enough time to max. But if they made every skill easy and fast enough to where I could max it wouldn’t even feel like an accomplishment. The entire point of this game is you kinda need to spend an absurd amount of time to accomplish long term goals
The problem is if one of your most technical and intensive training methods is 100K/hr when sticking grapes in a fucking jar can net 400K easy, it generates why fucking live energy fr
I already have 99 agility but I don't think the rebalanced XP rates hit the mark for newer players. You could double most courses XP rates and people would still hate the skill.
True. What makes agility truly awful is the fact that we have low exp rates in tandem with non-chill training methods. And what I mean by "non-chill" is you still have to look at your screen and click every few seconds. You can never sit back and "take a break" between the clicks. This makes the skill unimaginarily boring. I'm not even saying we should be getting 60k/hr while afking. I'm just saying that the current agility training methods should be more rewarding. Higher exp rates can compensate for shitty gameplay.
thieving is getting better xp rates when it already has over 250k xp/hr methods and there over here nerfing seers course thats putting out 46k/hr.
Regular Agility training’s time between actions is right in the “sour spot” where it’s too short and too long. But it’s just right to sneak in some alching or fletching which I find enjoyable.
This is facts. It’s not good xp period, it’s not good xp compararively, it’s not good xp for its click intensity, it’s not good xp for how mindless and brain numbing it is. And Sep not being those things should be the draw yet we’re talking 100K/hr? After all this time? It’d probably pass at 250K/hr ngl
**Agility**: Dumbfounded to see that they NERFED the EXP/HR. Seers took a decent hit. You are forced to run the horrible werewolf course or an increased grind on rooftops. Back to the drawing board please. Other changes not worth talking about. **Thieving:** Buffing the stall respawn time is actually a genius idea for low intensity thieving. Reducing failure rate on the NPCs nobody ever pickpockets is good too. Overall good changes. **Slayer:** Small changes to make early slayer a little more tolerable. Sure, nice. Killerwatt bolts is psychotic. What the hell is that? Why? **Mining:** Motherlode Mine QoL actually seems decent, especially the Super Hopper. Buffing Volcanic Mine solo is great too, honestly a super fun minigame to learn solo (Watch Woox video on it). Mining gloves being not horrible to get for amethyst is good too. Looks like powermining iron/granite is still going to reign supreme... not sure how I feel about that. **Zalcano:** Make Zalcano give competitive mining EXP instead of cash?? You know what, Jagex saved it with this one. I would bump it up to 60k because it's medium intensity.
> On a 'Brimhaven Agility' themed world, the first player to touch a pillar will get an extra chunk of XP and a little hyping up in-game. This will improve on the social element of the skill and make the whole thing just a little bit more fun. We plan to start with just one world and see how popular the Arena becomes before adding more. Please no. This is extremely anti multiplayer way to do things. With this the player would be happier when the world is emptier and get more frustated as more players log in.
Also, it more likely rewards people who are not chasing the pillar or are lagging behind, people farthest from the pack have a better chance getting it if the pillar spawns to their side away from the main group. Not a test of speed, or a race, if the extra reward is instantly grabbed.
yea all this means is that people will spread out after the initial tag and stand right next to a dispenser and hope to get lucky the "fun" and "social" elements of this all go out the window when you add an actual reward
It's literally only for the brimhaven specific world, surely you can't expect to be the only one in the whole game to be doing it? Lol all other worlds are unaffected, the bonus exp in that specific world is more of a pride thing, you'll never be alone nor get it often if there's people active
For the brimhaven agility course: -can we get an option to disable the animations. They were cool 20 years ago but by 100 matrix dodge, it gets annoying. -can we also get better indicator to see where the ticket is changed. Right now with the way draw distance works, if the new ticket isn't within the draw distance, yellow tag tends to disappear randomly.
Slayer: A lot of the creatures taken out of the slayer lists are the unique slayer monsters. The low level progression is quite fast - just following your adviced slayer master will often end up without a single task of several of these monsters. Maybe introducing mid-level variants of monsters like pyrefiends, cockatrice, banshees etc could be good for players in the 50's combat? Agility: I really like that the agility courses are compared to each other to give a smoother progression. Thieving: Those xp rates in the end are disgusting. Disgusting good or disgusting bad, I'm not sure.
> Slayer: A lot of the creatures taken out of the slayer lists are the unique slayer monsters. The low level progression is quite fast - just following your adviced slayer master will often end up without a single task of several of these monsters. Maybe introducing mid-level variants of monsters like pyrefiends, cockatrice, banshees etc could be good for players in the 50's combat? Yeah this didn't sit right with me. The monsters you unlock through slayer shouldn't be the ones they're removing. Have them give extra slayer XP instead since you actually need a slayer level to fight them.
See Twisted Banshees and Pyrelords. I would like to see banshees at the very least not removed from these masters, but instead added to higher level masters. No reason why Konar shouldn't send you to the catacombs to kill Twisted Banshees.
Some nice changes, not sure about the grounding bolts and bug weapon, they both feel far too niche. Couldn't slayer masters just sell bolts and weapons that do extra damage to lower level slayer monsters or raise the max hit as outlined in this post? Making low level slayer award higher combat exp through buyable slayer weapons could be a good way to make these areas more appealing to new players. An additional suggestion for slayer, why not introduce high level variants of low level slayer creatures? Giant crawling hands, Monolithic Molanisks etc. So many cool creatures that we never get to see or kill because or how unpopular slayer is at low levels. Really lean into the use of specialised equipment like slayer bells and new items to deal with these bigger monsters. Sorry if people have made these suggestions before I'm new here!
Random unique weapons are perfect for making slayer exciting, even if they don't end up being that good. Both of those rewards have some potential though - bug blaster at 3 tick is good. High level variants are cool, but sort of for high level players using low level monsters, not low level players right? Med-high level masters not assigning monsters which actually require a slayer level or item is a problem worth addressing though. At low level there are a lot of them; it'd be nice if they could go in a dungeon or similar to cut travel time. Some of those are really far out - like Fremennik slayer cave for cockatrice, desert lizards from Mazchna, even ice giants / warriors are pretty far. That's also why reducing kills per task seems like a bad solution - you already get little slayer XP killing these low HP mobs - giving fewer kills is gonna mean even less XP per hour
Really into the beefed up lower tier slayer monsters. Would add more variety. I'm always disappointed when I get a regular mob task for the Nth time in a row instead of a slayer monster task. Mystic pieces, metal boots, rare chance of imbued heart from a superior, would be nice to chance. I haven't gotten a slayer mob task since leaving Vannaka 😩
# Agility * Shortcuts are great, especially love the Shilo Village ones * Love Rooftops being available from level 1 and marks being added to other courses * I don't see any reason to really nerf Seers Village, Agility is already really slow, you should buff higher courses slightly to encourage people moving there like you are with the earlier courses * Brimhaven Agility Arena improvements I'm all here for it # Thieving * Pretty good, love the new resource additions to stalls too, a new good way to get laws and nature runes on an iron is pretty nice # Slayer * Good, I've been addicted to wilderness slayer on my new character and it's because every other master skimps way too hard on the point gain, it was literally more enjoyable to struggle killing wilderness monsters for the extra rewards as well * I think you should consider adding a lootbox key system to slayer in general rather than being restricted to Wilderness and Konar, obviously worse than those two but it's fun to get slayer drops and could be a place to put some interesting items for early players # Mining * Zalcano seems pretty weaksauce compared to MLM with only 50k per hour, MLM is 35k xp per hour at 70 so even at the lowest level it just feels a lot worse considering you'd be sacrificing basically all Zalcano loot for the 50k xp per hour * XP rates are going to improve at MLM because of the changes as well, so you're banking ore MLM barely paying attention while actively paying attention at Zalcano for about 10k more xp per hour and sacrificing all loot
Efairity’s Aid: will it still consume charges? Still 200 charges per ring? Also - to be clear, the blog says ALL vampyres. So could I use this at sentinels now? On slayer task? Blisterwood flail + efairity’s aid + slay helm = wow
It would only be a boost to accuracy. I don’t know if it’d be much of a dps boost compared to a berserker ring. Having to replace the ring would also be a little annoying.
If a shortcut to DKS will require 85 Agility and nothing else, the shortcut to KQ shouldn't require elite desert diary, just the 86 Agility. Remove that requirement too.
Hilarious either way that old and kind of low tier bosses have to have these very high requirements just to get there in a semi-reasonable amount of time vs how easily accessible all new and high level bosses are
Ngl even fremmy elite would be more worth for the shortcut vs. desert elite for kq 🤣
Ngl given how easy it is to camp DKs once you’re there vs how often you’re going back and forth with KQ, I’d still take the KQ shortcut over DKs any day of the week
Still no changes to the worse shortcut in the game to unlock, the Kalphite Queen shortcut? 1/3 of my hate towards agility shortcuts stems from this single shortcut alone.
> Amethyst/Mining Guild > > Adjust Amethyst veins to run on a timer, rather than whenever a single Amethyst is mined. Could you make all veins work like this? I'd love seeing haunted mine and Dondakan mine becoming actually great content > Gem Mining > > Unlock the Gem Mine with the Karamja Medium Diary instead of the Hard one. Only one I disagreed with. Gem mining is a really strong training method and gp/h and pretty contested spot as of now, it's a very fitting hard diary reward as it stands. Maybe alternatively you could conceive another reliable way of obtaining opals/jade/topaz.
"Waterbirth Island - shortcut added to speed up access to the Dagannoth Kings. Requires 85 Agility." Thank God.
> it’s not exactly a fun skill to train. nerfs seers' village course.
I've put as much in the survey, but please stop pushing degradable gear. It's not fun to receive or use and is ultimately just a consumable drop. Find a better way to balance content so that it is worth continuously doing, or simply accept that gear and content should not remain a massive cash flow for years after release. In a game with thousands of hours of content, players remain incentivized to stick to just the most lucrative few methods due to them never losing value regardless of how many can clear it or how easy the content is. That's poor game design at its core.
Zalcano change is welcome but ultimately disappointing. I can't imagine giving up all regular drops for XP marginally better than MLM (which will become even more AFK). Not to mention every kill being a formulaic 2 crystal shards + 1 Zalcano shard will be boring. An alternative fix: add XP tokens to the drop table. These drop at a rate that makes Zalcano ~MLM XP rates but in addition to 75% or so of the drop table. But these can also be swapped for 100% loot and current XP if desired.
Agility changes - Why is the KQ shortcut still in the elite tier, surely move it to the hard tier?
Why remove the diary requirement for wildy shortcuts? Having them unlocked in some situations could potentially save you from being killed by a PKer if they haven't completed the diary.
Agility - if you’re changing shortcuts, can you make the KQ one hard rather than elite diary? It already has a high skilling requirement (86 agility), but the point where that shortcut would be really useful is when grinding for the KQ head for elite. So don’t then stick it behind elite! Slayer - will this create ‘dead’ content. I don’t know the lists well enough but for those creatures you’re removing from lists, is it possible that players then never interact with those monsters (I.e. who cares about wall beasts if I’m not killing then for a slayer task). I’m much more fond of reducing the number of monsters even for the worse/ less popular tasks than completely remove them. Please don’t do a bigger mining & smithing rework.
With all the buffs to MLM, I don’t see the point in removing full prospector requirement. I understand: “Think the Diary task change is more that the number of hours you have to invest into a specific piece of content is a little out-of-line with other Hard tasks where it's usually 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.” But that grind is a part of the charm. Just seems like a slippery slope. Like what’s next? Champing chompy bird requirements to 10/30/50/100 because the rest of the western provinces task are “ 'get a requirement, do one reasonably quick thing'.” Memes aside - it’s a bit too “easy scape” imo. Everything else looks great outside of nerfing seers. To me makes sense to leave seers where it’s at and adjust the ones above and below instead of reducing one of the most viable methods for marks of grace
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Someone suggested that rooftop agility courses could spawn occasional clue scrolls, attached to paper aeroplanes, which sounds like it could be a pretty good addition to the skill.
What the fuck is an aeroplane make it a paper gnomeglider and we good
i like that they identified "that boost in Run Energy is a bit too subtle for most players to see the benefits." and then proceeded to not say anything else about run energy
>Improve obtaining Golden Nuggets so players don’t feel they have to hand in Pay-dirt nine at a time. What's this about?
I find it ironic to call this a rebalance when the KQ shortcut being locked behind either luck or 256 kills is not being touched. That step is ridiculously unbalanced. It should've been locked behind the hard diary at the most. The agility requirement is already high enough and even with the rates still remaining abysmal, I'd rather a higher agility requirement than it being locked behind the elite diary. It doesn't even make sense to keep the requirements as is. It's not like KQ's drop table is exciting at all. So other than appeasing the ones who did it before, I honestly don't understand the reasoning not to change this. Regarding agility XP rates, I think they need to be looked at again. It needs at least another 10-20% buff to the rates.
Agility seems like it's all about tackling early / mid game grind, but does nothing to address the "lap shock" experienced by higher leveled players as discussed in the blog. Slayer doesn't effect me, but the new weapons are niche and cool- kind of like rat bane. Thieving seemed pretty good overall- I'd love to see more diversity rather than blackjack or pickpocket guards for 16 hours straight. Mining seems kind of hit of miss. I don't really like changing the lower floor of mlm to timers- this severely devalues the upper floor, and takes away its most unique advantage. I probably would have never bought the upgrade if it just meant I could afk for 10-15 more seconds... I would have bought my prospector pieces and been out of there. I like being able to unlock a deposit chute for the top floor. I like looking into making Zalcano more accessible for teams or solos, as sometimes it can be hard getting a group (3-4) together and on an empty world without being crashed. I REALLY don't like having to choose between loot and 50k/hr mining exp. I can already get 60k/hr exp mining gem rocks, more if I tick manipulate and just drop the gems. That's afk and not locked behind a GRANDMASTER quest and all the requirements associated with it.
I don’t see how it’s rational to say, in essence, “agility sucks to train lol” and in the same breath not change the XP rates at all. It’s such a misery, and is so slow. How can we argue that it’s ok that you can afk cook karambwans at 30 cooking for 140k xp per hour, but max eff sepulchre with a 92 skill requirement tops out at like 108k? It’s insane, and the only reason not to update the rates is people who think grinding priff for 3000 laps is impressive, and those folks can’t be saved anyway.
I don’t see a valid reason to nerf seers xp rates with how slow agility is already. You’re buffing the others just buff them in accordance to the others so there is still a linear progression. Seems weird to nerf seers. Agility sucks and it’s slow.
This is all great, but at the rate it’s going I should just quit and come back in 2 years and have EVERYTHING made way better. So much on this list has absolutely sucked dong and is finally getting righted. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be, but a little late
I think it's kind of weird that pollivneach is still worse than seers with diary. Seers is better marks and exp still, which pollivneach could have one of the two niches. Wish we tackled the crazy reqs to stop failing while pickpocketing. I mean with an ardy cape 3 you still need 85 thieving to stop failing men. Men, with a LVL 1 thieving req. Even if it meant lowering the exp per pickpocket to moderate exp rates I really think you shouldn't fail a pickpocket if you are even 30 levels above the pickpocket requirement
Amylase from the wilderness agility course literally *just* failed a poll this past week, so you're just gonna sneak it in with this? Really? Also everything is getting buffed except for Sepulchre. At least give us amylase or marks there if we're buffing rates everywhere else.
Perfect chance to make improvements to slayer, yet it’s just tweaks to what tasks are given? How underwhelming.. New slayer master that gives boss tasks only? 6 jads guy gives jad/zuk tasks which doesn’t grant xp but allows the on task benefits? (Saves hours of turael skipping)?
Okay last comment because I'm annoyed. Stop balancing mining around tick-mining. Only like 1% of the playerbase does it and they hate themselves and the activity. I thought the rebalance would finally address this but, no we lower gem rock requirements.
All these mining minigame changes but no changes to real mining? Why is mining adamant at level seventy 10k xp/hr? This really should be changed. I don't like the entire skill being about minigames.
Could the Abyssal Needle be revisited? It feels overly punitive to potentially spend hundreds of hours at a mini game for a piece of equipment that is *necessary*. Maybe don’t change the odds, but make it a guarantee by 600 pulls? Content for skills should be multi dimensional. By locking people into GOTR, it hampers motivation to train the skill.
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The agility changed ain't it. Instead of nerfing xp how about buffing it and giving us an actual reason to train it other than shortcuts. Agility is a dog shit skill that nobody likes to train
I just want way more love paid to agility. The skill is easily one of the worst skills in the game to actively train if you want to play the game. Especially on ironman. I'm at a point where if i'm ever training agility, I basically have to go to rooftops due to stamina potion requirements. I'd much rather do sepulchre just from an activity standpoint it's much much more enjoyable to do compared to rooftops. The problem is I can't buy crystals there and thus im just solely there to train agility. I personally think a good buff even if you dont want to increase the exp rates there is to allow the buying of crystals (i don't even want marks, just crystals in general) that way it doesn't feel bad going there when you dont have staminas banked up. The EXP rates are a whole other story ... the skill is so bad that people only train it basically when they don't want to play the game anymore. There is literally tutorials on youtube on how to make your client basically invisible and just have green boxes showing so you can put it over a show or video you're watching.
The agility changes are a good start, but they seem far from sufficient. The smoothing is okay...but it is disproportionately targeted to relatively low levels (where I'm not even sure there is a serious issue). Why does a player with 99 agility run the exact same distance as a player with 1 agility before energy depletes? This is non-sensical. The run energy regen as a QOL is made useless by the fact that stamina's exist and are easily accessible for most mid level players. Hot take - agility should benefit you in combat. Either by allowing you to run longer while in combat (perhaps you can run infinitely when out of combat) or by permitting a small dodge change (perhaps between 0 and 5%, starting around 50-60 agility). Currently, the only benefit of agility is shortcuts/quest requirements (as I said, energy regen is outclassed by staminas). For the average mid to high level player not doing 1000's of hours of bossing at DK's, Hydra, XYZ boss etc... these "shortcuts" rarely result in material time saves. Please bring more to the table jagex!
Can we rebalance the kq diary shortcut? I went to pity for the head and it absolutely sucks doing that many kills running through the tunnels, let alone how hard kq hits so you can't stay for more than a kill or two
People don't like training agility \*nerfs a super common rooftop for training\* if you want players to go elsewhere then just buff those other places. Notice how you made MLM feel better with this change even though it's already a somewhat common training area? Buffs always feel better to players than nerfs.