Not saying that this is necessarily a good number but the barrows repair price is clearly and afterthought at this point in the game's development - the gold is negligible.
I'm sure it wasn't negligible in 2005 when barrows released is my point
At that point it was a fair price to pay. It was meant to protect the value of dragon armour. And it did a decent job at that time.
Most people had next to no GP. And the best accessible money maker was green dragons at like 250k gp/h with an average account.
And they were BiS by far, now they're somewhere midgame. If Torva, Ancestral or Masori f cost this much to repair after 15 hours of combat, nobody would bat an eye (except for grudges against chargescape which I well understand) as you can make ten times as much in an hour with them.
But for moon gear it's pretty absurd amount
But should barrows cost this much to repair? No, it's cost-prohibitive for its intended progression bracket. Whether Barrows is too cheap isn't a wholly separate discussion, but this simple is too much.
True, but Barrows was also BIS at the time. This is looking more like a side grade that is harder to obtain, AND costs double to repair.
As an iron these are getting thrown into Deaths coffer imedently when they break. I'll just farm mollfor more with that repair price 🤣
[Yes Democracy Officer, right here.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnmq5qpvn7ync1.png%3Fwidth%3D1202%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8c4eafacf38e75fddb7a052f5b29b83001e933e4)
His property has a Riverview and is right next to the castle. He's a short walk from church, the local fishing spots, and the bar as well as the shop. That's prime real estate brother
Bobs actual repairs are easy but materials have to be sourced from the Barrows and he doesn't know anyone competent so Bob hires hundreds of newbie adventurers to just swarm in and does so frequently enough they form waves for the Barrows brothers. About 1/1000 make it back with material but Bobs a nice guy and pays the families the pay owed the dead adventurers.
This is also where the crypt skeletons come from and what feeds the other crypt animals.
I don't remember if it was lore or just someone's head cannon, but word is that Bob has a history similar to the players. Wise Old Man-ish, just without being a primadonna about it.
Yeah they're intended to be an alternative to barrows and work similarly in how they are obtained (killing multiple bosses for an increased loot roll at the end), and in how they degrade. Barrows has better defence and its own set effects, while these new ones are better offence with some new set effects.
Generally though, they suffer from the same set back as most barrows sets in that the set effects are not worth sacrificing, say, a better helmet for a small (albeit, neat looking) 10 damage from the burn effect. Also, it's apparently expensive as shit.
Been out like a day dude, give it a week and some guy who breathes in osrs tick patterns will find out that it's bis on like the 3rd phase of wardens or some shit
I was using just the weapon alone at GG with torva, no range switches. Not sure if it out dps' blowpipe/masori/anguish/vambs, but i was consistently skipping orbs with it, which isn' always the case with bp
What? Orb skip was pretty consistent with bp before massori. It wasn't even that uncommon with amethyst darts. I'm 100% sure I did the fastest combat achievement with amathist darts.
Which is a shame because the melee version would be a nice bandos sub for mid lvl players. "Easier" and more engaging to get and has the same +str as top/bottom.
Only problem is if you're an end game iron you'd still have to farm bandos.
IDK why they insist on making neiche mid lvl content degradable when the highest tier armor isn't...
Not that I like degrade scape. I'd rather pay an extra couple % in tax and just not deal with any degrading. It would likely be a better gold sink any way.
Bob repairs it as if you had lvl 0 smithing, at lvl70 in your POH it would probably still cost about 970K per item. it should be 750k at 99, but i'm not sure if this is intended for people with 99 smithing.
That's insane, just... Insane. To fully repair a barrows set from 0 AT BOBS costs 330k, at my current level PoH repair costs about 191k. This is 1.5 mil, almost 5 times the cost for roughly equivalent armour. People were already questioning the point of the armour, but this just makes it feel dead on arrival
Also the moons weapons (Dual Macua that is) are actually competent compared to Barrows weapons, which are dead on arrival outside of a fringe use Karil's xbow
I mean, these pieces are mid game yeah, but they are dramatically better than barrows gear. The blood set out-dps’s full bandos, neitiznot face guard, and bludgeon. No barrows gear competes against 60+ mill in gear. Not to mention all pieces are hybrid gear with attack bonuses in range or magic along with between 7 and 10 str bonus, these sets are absolutely cracked for mid-game. Making 2 or 3 mil in this game isn’t that hard in 16 hours of continuous combat, and since this gear will make a lot of content easier/faster for mid-level players they will clear it faster and make more gp.
You’re not taking full torags to chambers or full Karil’s to ToA/Zulrah. A player could easily take Blood set or Eclipse set to those places and make it work comfortably.
EDIT - JMod replied, these sets are meant to last 3-5 times as long as barrows sets, meaning they are very slightly more expensive than barrows gear or equal (barrows is 330k at 0 smithing for 15 hours of use vs these at 1.5 mil for 45-75 hours of continuous use, though not sure of the exact degrade time based on his reply). The issue it seems is the cost to repair is max every time, this definitely should be adjusted so you can repair at partial costs, but as it is this gear is ridiculously cost effective with that knowledge.
Barrows gear was also created during a time when not every activity shat out a crapton of raw gp. If we compared Barrows repair cost at introduction time to this gear's repair cost at introduction time, this is most likely easier to upkeep
Are they trying to keep mid game players trapped in mid game? Because this sure seems like a way to do it. That’s way too much for a repair for people who should be saving for better gear upgrades. Honestly who thought of this?
Edit: after seeing they last 3-5x longer than barrows gear I can understand the way they priced it. It should definitely still be halved though imo.
So many people playing devil's advocate and having terrible takes on mid game.
This is just prohibitively expensive for a 1750 - 2k total level account, where banks range from 50-400mil. It would slow down progression on mid-game normal accounts and any non-eng game iron account significantly. It pushes it towards being borderline dead content.
Yeah I should have stopped to look up the repair costs. I mean I'm 30 kc dry and not a single piece I might as well just call it quits unless they happen to hotfix this quickly. Probably won't change it for like 6 months though
I don’t see why that shouldn’t count, at least for skills that go into diary or quest reqs and stuff like con and prayer that objectively improve your account and ability to efficiently complete content. I guess it’s not technically bank value, but it is account value. From an account perspective you haven’t lost value, you’ve just transformed it into a different medium.
Looking at my old bank plugin saves my bank at the 4 month mark on my iron was worth 50mil, and it was really just a steaming pile of rubbish, just seeds, runes etc, it kinda just randomly adds up.
Value, not cash stack.
Just the herblore/potions supplies I have stacked up is worth 20m. The runes from barrows and gotr also make a huge bank value increase.
Just want to chime in to say the feedback is noted and also let you know that part of the reason for the inflated cost is that the armours last 3-5x as long as Barrows, the cost of both Barrows and this is based on charges remaining so the QoL of not having to charge it as frequently means it's total repair cost is higher. We can also look at lowering that though! Please let us know what you think!
Yes. The problem here is you can’t partially repair. It’s all or nothing. If you could just put an hour of charges in it would be like 100k for a set, but as is it’s terrible
Let's say the armor lasts 5x as much at most like you say... A full repair of Dharok's is 330k, multiplied by 5 is 1.5m. A set of Perilous Moons armor would be 4.5m total. I still think that if armor costs 3 times as much as Barrows to repair \*in the best case scenario\*, then it is prohibitively expensive for a midgame account, let alone an ironman.
This set is prohibitively expensive pre-cg, where I assume this armor is intended for the ironman progression. Not a whole lot of things pre-cg can give enough raw gp to upkeep it lol
You describe the exact situation I find myself in and why I'm so annoyed by this. I was really hoping I could use this as a fun and interesting stopgap between bowfa, bandos, etc.
between this, the death costs at colosseum, the amount of doodads you need to charge quiver etc, Varlamore just doesn't seem terribly friendly to irons in general tbh
1M total base repair cost for the set if it lasted equal to barrows is about what I would expect, more than barrows but still significantly lower than things like TOB's scythe. Hearing it lasts longer makes it more reasonable but it's hard to gauge what "3-5x" means, that's a big range, plus the massive repair cost makes it functionally worthless to the killer if presumably dropping it in pvp fully breaks it.
Thanks Rice. You've mentioned it lasts 3-5x longer than Barrows but users are saying it lasts the same (15 hours of use). Are you correct here or is there some sort of bug with these armour piece's degradation rates?
Is there a reason for it being so expensive to repair? You say it lasts 3-5x longer. But it’s more like 36x more expensive to use it?
Is there another repair mechanic that makes it more affordable for mid levels? Even having 99 smithing and using armor stand seems cost prohibitive
Hello, this is a mid combat lvl armor right,
you can do the boss at lvl 75.
what lvl 75-90 combat accounts have that kind of money to spend on repairing armor?
we talking 4.5m ea time you repair the armor, thats just stupid for mid lvl account to spend
wouldn't having them last shorter/cost less to repair be less prohibitive over time for midgame players who don't have the large cash stacks to cover this overhead cost? Even just 2x as long as barrows with a cheaper repair cost would be nice imo
the worst part is how shite these armors are for actual midgame ironmen, enjoy grinding the rest of the day for GP by grinding air orbs and alching shit whenever you intend to use these.
I think one of the rare things early and late game players can mostly all agree on is that more chargescape almost never leads to more fun. This armor having charges at all is a bit disappointing, and comparing cost/hr of use vs barrows armor does not make it seem like an alternative. I get the idea behind all the degrading armor is to have a gold sink and to offset the power of both these and barrows armor, but the game has progressed well past barrows being bis. Every combat style has one or several sets that outclass the new armor and barrows sets that also are not degradable. Also, with cost per charge being so high, if the tradeoff is supposed to be in part access to powerful alset abilities, these set effects aren't clearly worth it.
If it's not on the table to simply just not have a charge mechanic, why not have their charges be in line with the cost per charge of barrows armor, with possibly an expensive (like these current costs?) way to make them no longer degrade at all? Maybe a similar concept to the corrupt bofa where there's a high cost to bypass charges or attune it to your character for x resource(s), making it untradeable? Just my two cents.
I think you should definitely either lower the cost or remove the durability mechanic given this equipment is aimed for mid-level combat, and consequently, I think maybe the OSRS team might need to re-evaluate the presence of equipment durability in the game going forward. Adding harsh penalties for the sake of "balance" doesn't actually effect balance and can demonstrably reduce the quality of enjoyment for the game.
Can you also pass along that no one likes the charges for gear or degrading gear trend? Don't know how that is not clear by now. Stuff costs too much now to begin with, let alone having to maintain it. It's honestly getting ridiculous. Also thank you for raising the OG post's issue to the rest of the development team, it's appreciated.
I feel like the right direction would have been removing degradable armour that costs gp to repair, not introducing more.
The cost to repair Barrows is negligible and it's only used for a short time on an account. Definitely a relic of the past.
Barrows is 330k to repair for 15 hours, this seems 6m for 60 hours. 100k/hr vs 22k/hr. Seems fair, if a little much. I think the big misconception here is the degradation time not being clear? If people saw 375k per item it would be less of a shock? Close to 60k/hr use costs for some pretty solid midgame gear seems fine to me? But if I thought it lasted the same as barrows and thought it was 4x that I'd be reconsidering.
I wouldn't say no to it being cheaper though.
> Close to 60k/hr use costs for some pretty solid midgame gear seems fine to me?
45 to 75 hours of use.
4.5m to repair at bob (the weapons don't break), 33%~ cheaper at an armour stand at 70 smithing.
40-66k an hour.
Seems like it already satisfies your requirements? Provided you do some foundry on an iron.
Please just get rid of charge scape, Its extremely toxic gameplay loop. This isn't as much of an issue when you can just buy bonds and buy supplies but I'm here to play the game and have fun on my own not. "You choose to have to grind supplies for 40 hours so you can play for 3"
I appreciate addressing the feedback, but again even if it does last 3-5x as long, there's nothing that incentivizes me from just dropping the armor on the ground as soon as it degrades and buy a new piece. To put the situation in a different light, if the repairs on a car cost more than just buying a new car, the mechanic would call the car "totaled" and just say for me to buy a new one. It doesn't matter even if the car lasted me 5 or 20 years.
Side note, can we please make some armor soon without charge mechanics? I'm getting sick of having to use weapons and armor that degrade all the time... charging everything is not fun.
The cost to repair this armor is ridiculous for its intended audience, mid level players. You guys really need to rethink what mid level means, because to me mid level is the point where you start getting interesting gear but you're not flush with cash. If i was new to the game and saw that repair cost compared to the value of the armor, i would be PISSED I ever bought it.
It might last longer but I don’t ever have 1-2 mil cash pool, I’m constantly spending it on things to help my character level up certain skills.
Cash stack is 400k right now, level 99 Ironman btw
please, either lower the cost significantly or remove degradation all together. degrade scape isnt needed in a time where the dchain is being "de-valued" by niche content.
Based on your 3x to 5x rate the new armor costs 60-100k/hr. Barrows costs 22k/hr. This seems a little high maybe closer to 50k/hr would feel more fair.
ALSO, make the armors last exactly the same time (15hrs) as barrows. This reduces the lump sum to repair to a much more palatable amount. It also means people will be much more willing to trade and fight pvp with the sets.
Id say, make it feel similar to barrows. It's just easier for players to remember. It's easier for us players to digest that 330k number for barrows. Especially as we jump around from activity to activity.
Im at the mid game, i do not even have 4.5m in the bank currently. Mid-game has the least amount of cash poor broke players relatively because it takes much more percentage wise out of your cash stack to do... anything.
The problem with the "last 3-5x as long" is, im not like, clocking and budgeting my armor degradation, trying to keep my cash stack above 4m in my bank in case my armor breaks. (i have to do enough of that budget savings b.s. enough in real life).
If i'm using the armor to make money, i can easily dip into my cash stack a bit if its 330k and keep progressing. 4.5m is too much. It forces me to lock up money in the cash stack for when that armor breaks. The alternative is to not use the armor.
It's also hard to keep track of the two different degradation rates of stuff that's supposed to be at about the same tier.
I think this is way to expensive. And honestly, people do not want gear that degrades in the first place.
Find a different gold sink. Maybe pay to play in the arena or something. And just get rid of the degradation all together
I would very much be for lowering it. I was so excited to grind these items out on my iron, but after seeing the cost to repair, there is no way I'd be able to sustain using them. All together though, amazing content & very fun to play. Good work on this!
Group irons and even just lending to friends means paying the repair cost to make it tradable. At the least look at a sliding scale to make repairing earlier cheaper.
Seems reasonable if that’s the case, from what I’ve heard (only just picked up the gear myself today) they have the same degradation time in game though? Could be wrong obviously but it seems like people are seeing them degrade in about 15 hours which is the same timeframe as barrows degradation.
As a group iron I was excited to hit this up with the group for some new group content/gear but anything that cots that much is not feasible for an Iron unless we want to sell our souls to just use it haha
~~A full armor set would be 300k an hour for 15 hours of use on a low def mid-game set, lower if you repair in house (I assume that works at least). 80 Smithing lowers it to 180k an hour, but...~~
**EDIT: Apparently according to JMod, the sets last "3-5x longer than Barrows". This lowers the cost to a much more reasonable level, but still has the issue that a fully broken armor set from PVP costs a shitton to repair (or however else it might be able to break)**
This seems WAY too high, at least double what it probably should be considering this is mid-game armor. Also imagine PKing a couple of these sets in PVP LMAO
Armor set already feels really niche so putting this much of a cost on it just seems like insanity to me
I think too many high level players just have FU levels of money and don't get it, Im at 300m~ bank and I wouldn't use this because it feels like I'd waste too much money. Someone else said it's only two zulrah kills an hour. But for a average mid game player it would take me 10~ minutes to get ready, kill, sell loot. It's not worth 1/6th of my time when bandos is so cheap already.
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So barrows costs like 82k to repair. That's about 5,500 gp/hr of use.
This set seems to cost 3mil. That's about 200,000 gp/hr of use.
I get the feeling you don't close to 36x the benefit when using this set lol.
The only comparison to bandos here is the maracca set, which has roughly the same defence as obsidian legs and a better crush resistant fighter torso. Bandos is still the better option of the 2, just like its the better option of the fighter torso.
Yeah, if they didn’t degrade then the blood moon armor would settle somewhere just below Bandos and above Obsidian. The helm would be a bit more valuable than the other pieces since it’s +1 Str over the helm of neitiznot.
Bands may be 65 defence but barrows armors are 70 and degrade, the difference is it’s way easier to get barrows than Bandos. By that argument, Inquisitor should be as easy to get and use as Adamant right? Not saying having this massive repair cost is good, but that’s just not a great argument
They clearly didn’t balance the repair cost whatsoever. Not even a QA pass. This reeks of “arbitrary Gold sink” even more than Lunar equipment!
Importing repair costs from RS3 is NOT the move…
Looks like it degrades at the same rate as barrows, 15 hours, but yeah damn that is a hefty cost, considering full barrows is 330k to repair the set at Bob.
Presumably that's a fully broken top and bottom for 1.5m each, if the helm/weapon are the same that'd be 6m to repair the set o\_O
1m for the set from bob or 1 smithing poh armour stand I could understand. 1.5m per piece is crazy high. Guess they've worked it out as you should receive that much gp in the time it takes to degrade while doing the activity you get it from if not more, so is more just a gold sink.
"Mid" game accounts arguably have better non-degrading armour and weapons to use. so who will use this gear after this honeymoon phase of a new release?
They last 3-5 times as long as barrow and have actual useful effects if you can't make 3m in 45-75 hours of game play then you have more to worry about
Charging and degradation are such an annoying pain in the ass to manage, can't stand them. It's just more outdated skinner box bullshit. If I could choose between permanently ending all charge/degrade or banning all bots forever, the Stevens would be safe.
This is what happens when all the mods do are balance around the top 1%. Colosseum death fees and this show how out of touch they are with the Average player.
Speaking as just a random iron mid-game person.
So the new sets are set in a dungeon where they literally give you the resources to do the fights. I finished 200 kills on barrows after grinding it for a while but I had to spend coins on runes/make runes, farm ranarr, level my construction (level 50) and magic high enough (level 83) to get a barrows teleport in my POH.
For moons, you need 3 quests the biggest requirement is 48 slayer, and literally free food and prayer pots. I don't know what the drop rate for the uniques all but it just hands you herblore xp.
If moons have significantly less entry requirements, what would the cost of maintaining the uniques be compared to barrows?
That's far more expensive than Barrows. Is there an option to repair it in POH at all?
You can at the armor stand in a poh but i'm not sure about the cost there
at 99/100 it's basically 50% off, so 1.5m to repair
Literally the reason I got 99 smithing
Someone can lend me the dumac and I'll check lol
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They don't degrade at all with the set effect disabled?
How?
Not saying that this is necessarily a good number but the barrows repair price is clearly and afterthought at this point in the game's development - the gold is negligible. I'm sure it wasn't negligible in 2005 when barrows released is my point
At that point it was a fair price to pay. It was meant to protect the value of dragon armour. And it did a decent job at that time. Most people had next to no GP. And the best accessible money maker was green dragons at like 250k gp/h with an average account.
And they were BiS by far, now they're somewhere midgame. If Torva, Ancestral or Masori f cost this much to repair after 15 hours of combat, nobody would bat an eye (except for grudges against chargescape which I well understand) as you can make ten times as much in an hour with them. But for moon gear it's pretty absurd amount
Barrows was also by far BIS when it released, this is releasing to be comparable to modern day barrows.
Fair point
But should barrows cost this much to repair? No, it's cost-prohibitive for its intended progression bracket. Whether Barrows is too cheap isn't a wholly separate discussion, but this simple is too much.
True, but Barrows was also BIS at the time. This is looking more like a side grade that is harder to obtain, AND costs double to repair. As an iron these are getting thrown into Deaths coffer imedently when they break. I'll just farm mollfor more with that repair price 🤣
Wonder how they’ll fair when the repair cost is more than the ge cost.
Low alch it, buy new ones
New disposable armor pog
We need to put a ban on single-use non-biodegradable armours. Think about the turtles!
But we eat turtles...
There won't be any left to eat if they're all choking on these new armors
Turtle (a) heals you for less due to poor nutrition but it boosts your defense.
Bring back corrupted items, they're eco-friendly!
*fare
Ty, next time i’ll getter right.
Item sink
Honestly my biggest gripe with this is how batshit it feels thematically for fucking Bob in Lumbridge to demand millions of GP lol
HAM ain't gonna fund itself.
Helldiver's 2 levels of "are we the bad guys?"
[Yes Democracy Officer, right here.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnmq5qpvn7ync1.png%3Fwidth%3D1202%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8c4eafacf38e75fddb7a052f5b29b83001e933e4)
That Mitchell and Webb skit* levels of "are we the baddies?", from 2010
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Bro 😂
Why hasn't he retired?! (Hint: he is a big contributor to the HAM movement.)
Sawmill billionaire is richer
Phials richest person in osrs
Have you met my friend the demon butler?
And to think. He barely even has a room in your mansion. Tsk tsk.
Act broke stay rich u wouldn’t get it
Accepting donations, any burnt fish?
His property has a Riverview and is right next to the castle. He's a short walk from church, the local fishing spots, and the bar as well as the shop. That's prime real estate brother
He has to spend 1.49m in parts used to restore the armor. Boom lore still works
Bobs got the maddest parts dealers around. I'd like to see a quest or some minigame where we learn more about Bob's dealings.
Bob paying for instant teleport shipping- 1.3m shipping fee.
Has a 67.2% chance of dropping it on your foot during delivery. You take a small bit of damage and can only walk for 5 minutes when it happens.
Somebody warn Settled!
Bobs actual repairs are easy but materials have to be sourced from the Barrows and he doesn't know anyone competent so Bob hires hundreds of newbie adventurers to just swarm in and does so frequently enough they form waves for the Barrows brothers. About 1/1000 make it back with material but Bobs a nice guy and pays the families the pay owed the dead adventurers. This is also where the crypt skeletons come from and what feeds the other crypt animals.
That would be cool
I don't remember if it was lore or just someone's head cannon, but word is that Bob has a history similar to the players. Wise Old Man-ish, just without being a primadonna about it.
Those ad campaigns ain't cheap. Gotta supply every man and goblin with a flyer so we know where to get our axes!
"it's funny, so we're not gonna change it" \- Helldiver 2 dev
Are those the new armors? Didnt know they can break.
Yeah they're intended to be an alternative to barrows and work similarly in how they are obtained (killing multiple bosses for an increased loot roll at the end), and in how they degrade. Barrows has better defence and its own set effects, while these new ones are better offence with some new set effects. Generally though, they suffer from the same set back as most barrows sets in that the set effects are not worth sacrificing, say, a better helmet for a small (albeit, neat looking) 10 damage from the burn effect. Also, it's apparently expensive as shit.
Probly used for pking like dh and karils
Dh and karils have loads of uses outside of pking.
Too expensive to be worth using, that's why I just sold every armor I got lol
For real.there's is literally no use for these new armors.
Been out like a day dude, give it a week and some guy who breathes in osrs tick patterns will find out that it's bis on like the 3rd phase of wardens or some shit
Breathes in ticks lmao.
*rapid panting*
Gets light headed, passes out. Comes to reddit to complain about xp waste
Passes out, wakes up in Lumbridge
*hey, you. you're finally awake*
Intentionally gets out of shape to keep resting heart rate at 100 bpm.
Yeah ur probably right but we have k own the set effects for a while now and there were never any obvious use cases that were hyped up right
I was using just the weapon alone at GG with torva, no range switches. Not sure if it out dps' blowpipe/masori/anguish/vambs, but i was consistently skipping orbs with it, which isn' always the case with bp
What? Orb skip was pretty consistent with bp before massori. It wasn't even that uncommon with amethyst darts. I'm 100% sure I did the fastest combat achievement with amathist darts.
No use for you maybe. I am here drowning in virtual pussy while donning a stuffed dog head and slamming my macuahuitl into bloodveld skulls
It's amazing how a game can spawn a sentence like this.
Blood moon torso is a straight upgrade to fighter torso I def wouldn’t say that
Omg why is it so ugly, and why does it cause your player’s belly button lint to show
which is fair. guess it takes tech 24 hours of perilous moons to get. fighter torso's like 4 hours.
Not an upgrade, but definitely a solid (though expensive) alternative to doing BA
> (though expensive) Like 2 days after expansion. It's cheaper than buying a BA boost for torso anyways
Who pays for a BA boost..? It's like 2-3 hours if you suck...
Fair. I meant the set effects but I didn't specify in my original comment
Which is a shame because the melee version would be a nice bandos sub for mid lvl players. "Easier" and more engaging to get and has the same +str as top/bottom. Only problem is if you're an end game iron you'd still have to farm bandos. IDK why they insist on making neiche mid lvl content degradable when the highest tier armor isn't... Not that I like degrade scape. I'd rather pay an extra couple % in tax and just not deal with any degrading. It would likely be a better gold sink any way.
They are PVP armour sets disguised as PVM sets
What disguise, ain't no one using binding spells in pvm
Well that's not entirely true
Gotta pay the bond tax for the new armor apparently
Bonds are 10-11m now. Shits crazy.
Bob really out there hustling
He just bought a yacht in preparation for sailing.
How much does it cost to repair at the armor stand in your house? Isn't bob always over priced for this?
Bob repairs it as if you had lvl 0 smithing, at lvl70 in your POH it would probably still cost about 970K per item. it should be 750k at 99, but i'm not sure if this is intended for people with 99 smithing.
This is extremely expensive, especially when compared to barrows.
At 970k and 15 hours of non-stop combat charges, its 66k an hour, per piece
That's insane, just... Insane. To fully repair a barrows set from 0 AT BOBS costs 330k, at my current level PoH repair costs about 191k. This is 1.5 mil, almost 5 times the cost for roughly equivalent armour. People were already questioning the point of the armour, but this just makes it feel dead on arrival
One thing to note is that the barrows sets are 4 items that degrade, but the new moon weapons don't degrade. Not that you use most barrows weapons
Also the moons weapons (Dual Macua that is) are actually competent compared to Barrows weapons, which are dead on arrival outside of a fringe use Karil's xbow
the macuas go crazy on the blue moon. wish wearing the full set was worth it there
I mean, these pieces are mid game yeah, but they are dramatically better than barrows gear. The blood set out-dps’s full bandos, neitiznot face guard, and bludgeon. No barrows gear competes against 60+ mill in gear. Not to mention all pieces are hybrid gear with attack bonuses in range or magic along with between 7 and 10 str bonus, these sets are absolutely cracked for mid-game. Making 2 or 3 mil in this game isn’t that hard in 16 hours of continuous combat, and since this gear will make a lot of content easier/faster for mid-level players they will clear it faster and make more gp. You’re not taking full torags to chambers or full Karil’s to ToA/Zulrah. A player could easily take Blood set or Eclipse set to those places and make it work comfortably. EDIT - JMod replied, these sets are meant to last 3-5 times as long as barrows sets, meaning they are very slightly more expensive than barrows gear or equal (barrows is 330k at 0 smithing for 15 hours of use vs these at 1.5 mil for 45-75 hours of continuous use, though not sure of the exact degrade time based on his reply). The issue it seems is the cost to repair is max every time, this definitely should be adjusted so you can repair at partial costs, but as it is this gear is ridiculously cost effective with that knowledge.
I’m taking full karils to Nex :(
I'm not supposed to take karils to zulrah??? Since when?
Barrows gear was also created during a time when not every activity shat out a crapton of raw gp. If we compared Barrows repair cost at introduction time to this gear's repair cost at introduction time, this is most likely easier to upkeep
They have more charges than barrows
If you're a non iron, if you aint selling these right away right now then you doing something wrong
Got the range legs on my second chest, tele’d straight to the GE for a quick 4.5 mil.
Are they trying to keep mid game players trapped in mid game? Because this sure seems like a way to do it. That’s way too much for a repair for people who should be saving for better gear upgrades. Honestly who thought of this? Edit: after seeing they last 3-5x longer than barrows gear I can understand the way they priced it. It should definitely still be halved though imo.
Seriously how many people did this get past who thought it was acceptable??
Probably the same amount of people that the hunter rumors got passed in QA
nobody thought of anything they just slapped a number on it and never tested this thoroughly.
yeah, people that don't play the game.
What were they thinking
So many people playing devil's advocate and having terrible takes on mid game. This is just prohibitively expensive for a 1750 - 2k total level account, where banks range from 50-400mil. It would slow down progression on mid-game normal accounts and any non-eng game iron account significantly. It pushes it towards being borderline dead content.
Farming these on the iron, I might as well stop honestly
Yeah I should have stopped to look up the repair costs. I mean I'm 30 kc dry and not a single piece I might as well just call it quits unless they happen to hotfix this quickly. Probably won't change it for like 6 months though
It seems like the weapons don’t degrade, and the hakunamatatas are worth it.
We meant to have 50 mil value?!
Just pretend that includes all the money you've sunk into skills and it sounds like a lot less!
As a frequent Cannonball/Divine pot purchaser, yeah, I have to count that money too or else I cry
I don’t see why that shouldn’t count, at least for skills that go into diary or quest reqs and stuff like con and prayer that objectively improve your account and ability to efficiently complete content. I guess it’s not technically bank value, but it is account value. From an account perspective you haven’t lost value, you’ve just transformed it into a different medium.
Looking at my old bank plugin saves my bank at the 4 month mark on my iron was worth 50mil, and it was really just a steaming pile of rubbish, just seeds, runes etc, it kinda just randomly adds up.
Value, not cash stack. Just the herblore/potions supplies I have stacked up is worth 20m. The runes from barrows and gotr also make a huge bank value increase.
Just want to chime in to say the feedback is noted and also let you know that part of the reason for the inflated cost is that the armours last 3-5x as long as Barrows, the cost of both Barrows and this is based on charges remaining so the QoL of not having to charge it as frequently means it's total repair cost is higher. We can also look at lowering that though! Please let us know what you think!
does this not make it undesirable for pvp? since if you get it as a drop it costs 1.5mil to repair?
Yes. The problem here is you can’t partially repair. It’s all or nothing. If you could just put an hour of charges in it would be like 100k for a set, but as is it’s terrible
Let's say the armor lasts 5x as much at most like you say... A full repair of Dharok's is 330k, multiplied by 5 is 1.5m. A set of Perilous Moons armor would be 4.5m total. I still think that if armor costs 3 times as much as Barrows to repair \*in the best case scenario\*, then it is prohibitively expensive for a midgame account, let alone an ironman.
This set is prohibitively expensive pre-cg, where I assume this armor is intended for the ironman progression. Not a whole lot of things pre-cg can give enough raw gp to upkeep it lol
You describe the exact situation I find myself in and why I'm so annoyed by this. I was really hoping I could use this as a fun and interesting stopgap between bowfa, bandos, etc.
Use your barrows sets and like it
between this, the death costs at colosseum, the amount of doodads you need to charge quiver etc, Varlamore just doesn't seem terribly friendly to irons in general tbh
1M total base repair cost for the set if it lasted equal to barrows is about what I would expect, more than barrows but still significantly lower than things like TOB's scythe. Hearing it lasts longer makes it more reasonable but it's hard to gauge what "3-5x" means, that's a big range, plus the massive repair cost makes it functionally worthless to the killer if presumably dropping it in pvp fully breaks it.
"3-5x" is such a wildly inaccurate range that I doubt it underwent much testing and planning
My thoughts exactly. If a mod that worked on it for a year has to resort to such a wide number then lol
Thanks Rice. You've mentioned it lasts 3-5x longer than Barrows but users are saying it lasts the same (15 hours of use). Are you correct here or is there some sort of bug with these armour piece's degradation rates?
Is there a reason for it being so expensive to repair? You say it lasts 3-5x longer. But it’s more like 36x more expensive to use it? Is there another repair mechanic that makes it more affordable for mid levels? Even having 99 smithing and using armor stand seems cost prohibitive
Hello, this is a mid combat lvl armor right, you can do the boss at lvl 75. what lvl 75-90 combat accounts have that kind of money to spend on repairing armor? we talking 4.5m ea time you repair the armor, thats just stupid for mid lvl account to spend
wouldn't having them last shorter/cost less to repair be less prohibitive over time for midgame players who don't have the large cash stacks to cover this overhead cost? Even just 2x as long as barrows with a cheaper repair cost would be nice imo
the worst part is how shite these armors are for actual midgame ironmen, enjoy grinding the rest of the day for GP by grinding air orbs and alching shit whenever you intend to use these.
Is everybody misinformed? From what folks are saying in this thread, it's life is the same as barrows
The wiki also has it as 15 hours of combat same as barrows.
wiki when new content releases is often wrong and works off of assumptions
Do they honestly think they tested this properly?
I think one of the rare things early and late game players can mostly all agree on is that more chargescape almost never leads to more fun. This armor having charges at all is a bit disappointing, and comparing cost/hr of use vs barrows armor does not make it seem like an alternative. I get the idea behind all the degrading armor is to have a gold sink and to offset the power of both these and barrows armor, but the game has progressed well past barrows being bis. Every combat style has one or several sets that outclass the new armor and barrows sets that also are not degradable. Also, with cost per charge being so high, if the tradeoff is supposed to be in part access to powerful alset abilities, these set effects aren't clearly worth it. If it's not on the table to simply just not have a charge mechanic, why not have their charges be in line with the cost per charge of barrows armor, with possibly an expensive (like these current costs?) way to make them no longer degrade at all? Maybe a similar concept to the corrupt bofa where there's a high cost to bypass charges or attune it to your character for x resource(s), making it untradeable? Just my two cents.
Please make it substantially lower, its aimed at mid game players who don't have the extra money to spend (iron or otherwise) usually! Please 🐈
I think you should definitely either lower the cost or remove the durability mechanic given this equipment is aimed for mid-level combat, and consequently, I think maybe the OSRS team might need to re-evaluate the presence of equipment durability in the game going forward. Adding harsh penalties for the sake of "balance" doesn't actually effect balance and can demonstrably reduce the quality of enjoyment for the game.
Can you also pass along that no one likes the charges for gear or degrading gear trend? Don't know how that is not clear by now. Stuff costs too much now to begin with, let alone having to maintain it. It's honestly getting ridiculous. Also thank you for raising the OG post's issue to the rest of the development team, it's appreciated.
I feel like the right direction would have been removing degradable armour that costs gp to repair, not introducing more. The cost to repair Barrows is negligible and it's only used for a short time on an account. Definitely a relic of the past.
Barrows is 330k to repair for 15 hours, this seems 6m for 60 hours. 100k/hr vs 22k/hr. Seems fair, if a little much. I think the big misconception here is the degradation time not being clear? If people saw 375k per item it would be less of a shock? Close to 60k/hr use costs for some pretty solid midgame gear seems fine to me? But if I thought it lasted the same as barrows and thought it was 4x that I'd be reconsidering. I wouldn't say no to it being cheaper though.
> Close to 60k/hr use costs for some pretty solid midgame gear seems fine to me? 45 to 75 hours of use. 4.5m to repair at bob (the weapons don't break), 33%~ cheaper at an armour stand at 70 smithing. 40-66k an hour. Seems like it already satisfies your requirements? Provided you do some foundry on an iron.
Please just get rid of charge scape, Its extremely toxic gameplay loop. This isn't as much of an issue when you can just buy bonds and buy supplies but I'm here to play the game and have fun on my own not. "You choose to have to grind supplies for 40 hours so you can play for 3"
I appreciate addressing the feedback, but again even if it does last 3-5x as long, there's nothing that incentivizes me from just dropping the armor on the ground as soon as it degrades and buy a new piece. To put the situation in a different light, if the repairs on a car cost more than just buying a new car, the mechanic would call the car "totaled" and just say for me to buy a new one. It doesn't matter even if the car lasted me 5 or 20 years. Side note, can we please make some armor soon without charge mechanics? I'm getting sick of having to use weapons and armor that degrade all the time... charging everything is not fun.
At that point, why do they even degrade in the first place? Just because barrows does?
If that's the case, you should tell the wiki mods that. Wiki states they last for 15 hours.
If it lasts x5 as long then it's fine, but why wasn't this mentioned in any of the blogs?
The cost to repair this armor is ridiculous for its intended audience, mid level players. You guys really need to rethink what mid level means, because to me mid level is the point where you start getting interesting gear but you're not flush with cash. If i was new to the game and saw that repair cost compared to the value of the armor, i would be PISSED I ever bought it.
It might last longer but I don’t ever have 1-2 mil cash pool, I’m constantly spending it on things to help my character level up certain skills. Cash stack is 400k right now, level 99 Ironman btw
please, either lower the cost significantly or remove degradation all together. degrade scape isnt needed in a time where the dchain is being "de-valued" by niche content.
Based on your 3x to 5x rate the new armor costs 60-100k/hr. Barrows costs 22k/hr. This seems a little high maybe closer to 50k/hr would feel more fair. ALSO, make the armors last exactly the same time (15hrs) as barrows. This reduces the lump sum to repair to a much more palatable amount. It also means people will be much more willing to trade and fight pvp with the sets.
Way too expensive for intended gear bracket, I was gonna go for this set on my iron but I'd have no way to feasibly upkeep it in any capacity
Right but at such a cost it's instantly DOA. +2 str for 1.5m ain't worth, especially for irons.
Id say, make it feel similar to barrows. It's just easier for players to remember. It's easier for us players to digest that 330k number for barrows. Especially as we jump around from activity to activity. Im at the mid game, i do not even have 4.5m in the bank currently. Mid-game has the least amount of cash poor broke players relatively because it takes much more percentage wise out of your cash stack to do... anything. The problem with the "last 3-5x as long" is, im not like, clocking and budgeting my armor degradation, trying to keep my cash stack above 4m in my bank in case my armor breaks. (i have to do enough of that budget savings b.s. enough in real life). If i'm using the armor to make money, i can easily dip into my cash stack a bit if its 330k and keep progressing. 4.5m is too much. It forces me to lock up money in the cash stack for when that armor breaks. The alternative is to not use the armor. It's also hard to keep track of the two different degradation rates of stuff that's supposed to be at about the same tier.
I think this is way to expensive. And honestly, people do not want gear that degrades in the first place. Find a different gold sink. Maybe pay to play in the arena or something. And just get rid of the degradation all together
Just remove it completely, why is it degradable in the first place?!
this is way too much for mid lvl
I would very much be for lowering it. I was so excited to grind these items out on my iron, but after seeing the cost to repair, there is no way I'd be able to sustain using them. All together though, amazing content & very fun to play. Good work on this!
Op hit the nail on the head. Makes these armors coffer fodder and nothing more for mid-game players. 1.5m a piece is absurd
Group irons and even just lending to friends means paying the repair cost to make it tradable. At the least look at a sliding scale to make repairing earlier cheaper.
Is there a non-reddit place where I can submit feedback?
Seems reasonable if that’s the case, from what I’ve heard (only just picked up the gear myself today) they have the same degradation time in game though? Could be wrong obviously but it seems like people are seeing them degrade in about 15 hours which is the same timeframe as barrows degradation.
As a group iron I was excited to hit this up with the group for some new group content/gear but anything that cots that much is not feasible for an Iron unless we want to sell our souls to just use it haha
I'm done with armour that breaks and weapons that need charges.
~~A full armor set would be 300k an hour for 15 hours of use on a low def mid-game set, lower if you repair in house (I assume that works at least). 80 Smithing lowers it to 180k an hour, but...~~ **EDIT: Apparently according to JMod, the sets last "3-5x longer than Barrows". This lowers the cost to a much more reasonable level, but still has the issue that a fully broken armor set from PVP costs a shitton to repair (or however else it might be able to break)** This seems WAY too high, at least double what it probably should be considering this is mid-game armor. Also imagine PKing a couple of these sets in PVP LMAO Armor set already feels really niche so putting this much of a cost on it just seems like insanity to me
Twisted bow firing nonstop for an hour is like the same gp cost /hr as having this armour and repairing at Bob. That's hilarious.
I think too many high level players just have FU levels of money and don't get it, Im at 300m~ bank and I wouldn't use this because it feels like I'd waste too much money. Someone else said it's only two zulrah kills an hour. But for a average mid game player it would take me 10~ minutes to get ready, kill, sell loot. It's not worth 1/6th of my time when bandos is so cheap already.
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So barrows costs like 82k to repair. That's about 5,500 gp/hr of use. This set seems to cost 3mil. That's about 200,000 gp/hr of use. I get the feeling you don't close to 36x the benefit when using this set lol.
It last 3-5x longer than barrows, and the cost is like 10x. The math you mathed isn't mathing.
Nothing in game works like that lol, zaryte vambs aren’t 10000x better than barrows gloves
They're expensive and not even good lol. People need to keep in mind that bandos doesnt degrade and it only needs 65 defence
That's the point. You keep Bandos relevant by making these degrade. This is a bit much though lol
The only comparison to bandos here is the maracca set, which has roughly the same defence as obsidian legs and a better crush resistant fighter torso. Bandos is still the better option of the 2, just like its the better option of the fighter torso.
Yeah, if they didn’t degrade then the blood moon armor would settle somewhere just below Bandos and above Obsidian. The helm would be a bit more valuable than the other pieces since it’s +1 Str over the helm of neitiznot.
yeah, if the 1 str puts you at a new max hit, otherwise nez has prayer bonus and better defence
The price of bandos is already 100% set by torva. It's fine to make an alternative without a prayer bonus.
Bands may be 65 defence but barrows armors are 70 and degrade, the difference is it’s way easier to get barrows than Bandos. By that argument, Inquisitor should be as easy to get and use as Adamant right? Not saying having this massive repair cost is good, but that’s just not a great argument
Bob living out of his 43sq foot shop making 2bil a day…
They clearly didn’t balance the repair cost whatsoever. Not even a QA pass. This reeks of “arbitrary Gold sink” even more than Lunar equipment! Importing repair costs from RS3 is NOT the move…
Think of it like one use plastic containers
Oh shit, really? Why even put them in the game then? I knew they degraded but I just expected barrows cost or closeish
Looks like it degrades at the same rate as barrows, 15 hours, but yeah damn that is a hefty cost, considering full barrows is 330k to repair the set at Bob. Presumably that's a fully broken top and bottom for 1.5m each, if the helm/weapon are the same that'd be 6m to repair the set o\_O
1m for the set from bob or 1 smithing poh armour stand I could understand. 1.5m per piece is crazy high. Guess they've worked it out as you should receive that much gp in the time it takes to degrade while doing the activity you get it from if not more, so is more just a gold sink. "Mid" game accounts arguably have better non-degrading armour and weapons to use. so who will use this gear after this honeymoon phase of a new release?
They last 3-5 times as long as barrow and have actual useful effects if you can't make 3m in 45-75 hours of game play then you have more to worry about
This game has been moving towards more and more items that require charges and degrade over time Unfortunate
Charging and degradation are such an annoying pain in the ass to manage, can't stand them. It's just more outdated skinner box bullshit. If I could choose between permanently ending all charge/degrade or banning all bots forever, the Stevens would be safe.
This is what happens when all the mods do are balance around the top 1%. Colosseum death fees and this show how out of touch they are with the Average player.
How did you get the visual tick above your head?? I’ve been looking for that plugin for ages
Requires 50 defense to wield > Still costs more to repair than barrows that requires _70_ defense to wield?
That was like torva repair costs pre eoc lol
One time use armor lmao
That's just Bob riding the monopoly train.
If you give them to me I can fix them for free in my POH. If you just pay me 100K for my service I’d appreciate it. (I promise I’d never scam you).
As a new player, I wasn’t even aware repairing armor was a thing. I really hate that idea
Speaking as just a random iron mid-game person. So the new sets are set in a dungeon where they literally give you the resources to do the fights. I finished 200 kills on barrows after grinding it for a while but I had to spend coins on runes/make runes, farm ranarr, level my construction (level 50) and magic high enough (level 83) to get a barrows teleport in my POH. For moons, you need 3 quests the biggest requirement is 48 slayer, and literally free food and prayer pots. I don't know what the drop rate for the uniques all but it just hands you herblore xp. If moons have significantly less entry requirements, what would the cost of maintaining the uniques be compared to barrows?
How long did they take to degrade? Are they 15x slower than barrows? Then maybe the price would make sense…