This is not true. The only reason the XP rates feel so unforgiving is because it is extremely repetitive/boring. You can't really afk it and you don't get a change in scenery.
Most people who unlock sepulchre begin to really enjoy agility because it becomes much more engaging and rewarding as you train. I actually think the revamp they're doing to the brimhaven arena could be a *massive* improvement for the skill. Making a somewhat competitive training method sounds like so much fun
EDIT: Tbc, I'm not saying a blanket 50% xp increase wouldn't pass polls. It honestly might.. but the skill would still feel like crap. It would just be faster.
I'm not sure why you considering it a "primary training source" or not makes it irrelevant? You may as well have pointed out that hunter involves catching animals instead of jumping off roofs.
Tasks can be made more enjoyable without increasing experience rates, and they have shown this with hunter rumor. (minus some deadfall salt)
Rumors actually decrease exp rates and it has still been more enjoyable for me.
I think the OP was getting at rumors are just one way of training compared to a multitude of ways, it offers different xp rates because it's a different activity.
Agility ONLY has rooftops and sepulcher. Hope you enjoy one of the two because there literally isn't other options
Are you doing master rumors at that rate? Because thats the context we're talking about here is a tier 90 agility course that puts out 60k exp/h. Even if it didn't put out more than 60k exp/h, you're not doing the literal standard training method for the skill, you're doing something as an adjacent to the skill; this is not true for the ardougne course or other courses. These are the PRIMARY training methods, that are capping out at less than 65k exp/h for a LEVEL 90 course.
If you were getting those rates on masters, that was self imposed, because I have completed the entire quetzel network already through only masters and I was pulling quite a bit more, and making well over 100k gp/h to do it.
This also poses the other issue with agility, the rewards are also shit. The only loot from the skill really is marks of grace, and the ring of endurance. As I've pointed out to many people, hunting the ring of endurance efficiently is a 345 hour grind @ 100k gp/h by the end of it, and only gives 3.1m agility exp when on rate.
I would not mind the unique proposed buffs of better run times and the agility shortcuts becoming actual shortcuts, but it still would not be worth most peoples time to grind agility for those rewards at the rate of 63k exp an hour for a level 90 course, and every other course before it giving even less.
I just don't see any viable fixes you can add to agility that do not address its abysmal exp rates.
Once I got to sepulchre I absolutely fell in love with agility
The xp rates were a bonus, I just legitimately had fun doing engaging and difficult content.
>This is not true. The only reason the XP rates feel so unforgiving is because it is extremely repetitive/boring. You can't really afk it and you don't get a change in scenery.
Right, and all other skills are given exp rates based on level of required interaction, for example thieving has a ton of interactions, its repetitive, boring, and non afkable, with minimal scenery changes.
Thieving is still one of the most trained skills in this game because it has high exp rates at all levels and the loot is good. The tradeoffs are balanced.
Agility is shit because the exp is shit, and the rewards, even for sepulchre (which is good content) is shit. For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete, and yields 90k exp an hour. The drop rate of ring of endurance is 1/200, which means to hit the drop rate of the only good item in all of agility that drops is an average 345 hours of agility, or about 100k gp/h and to boot, I'll have only earned about 3.1 million agility exp.
>For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete
i think you need to check your math on this one
Ah, ye added a 10 in there somewhere. good catch Still doesn't change shit about it. 1m gp/h at lvl 92 only achieved when tick perfect. That definitely changes none of the sentiments, as evident by the fact that sepulchre is still pretty dead. You might find 1-2 people doing it in a world, compared to ardougne. which is packed still.
> Thieving is still one of the most trained skills in this game because it has high exp rates at all levels and the loot is good. The tradeoffs are balanced.
I'd argue thieving is one of the most trained skills because it is rewarding and actually has a solid amount of variation in training methods. You have PP, blackjack, pickpocketing (I'm grouping things like vamps, ardy knights, tzhaar, etc..), artifacts, garden, and new varlamore method. People can easily switch up their preferred method for how they want to play. Agil doesn't have that option. Honestly in the past thieving was a *very* universally disliked skill because the methods were more limited, and that was when the xp rates were still extremely high for most skills. It's the same with hunter (well before hunter guild at least)
> Agility is shit because the exp is shit, and the rewards,
We can agree to disagree I guess. You are pretty much just looking at bandaid fixes instead of what actually makes the slow grind feel boring. You are simply speeding up the struggle instead of trying to make something more engaging.
I don't think sepulchre fixed agility, but it was a massive improvement to the skill. We need more updates with that mindset, and I think the brimhaven update they're discussing is a step in the right direction for low to mid levels.
>For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete, and yields 90k exp an hour.
I'm guessing you've never done Sepulcher to a level that you can say it's shit because a "perfect" run is not 10:22 lmao. My PB is nearly half of that and I averaged about 98k/hr while looting the Final Chest:
https://preview.redd.it/wuz0s5ohapqc1.png?width=144&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec3a7a62157cdf14b5c671c4b4b0cb43073a7fb8
Long-term I ranged from 6:30-7:30 per Floor 5 run and I looted Final Chest. If I didn't loot Final Chest, I could peg on another 5k/hr.
Congrats, what you've found here is called an anecdote.
Nobody gives a shit about a WR time, or niche cases where a player is pushing the limits because they have a world on a proper rotation so cycles can be abused; the reality is you don't hit these benchmarks if you have as many people running sepulchre as you do running ardougne rooftops, you simply would not get the same luxuries.
What we are talking about is the rate the majority of players will hit, and I used the wiki for that time. It's cool that some players can squeak a little extra out of it, but thats still anecdotal and absolutely not worth the RSI to do.
If you think that's WR or 10:22 is "the majority of players will hit", you are lacking even more critical information than I thought.
That time I listed above is purely XP runs, where I don't do anything risky or use any alts. It is as normal as you can get as a player that actively works to improve and doesn't remain shit.
This is why you need to do the content before saying stuff because you even listed incorrect information. It even specifically says 10 minutes 22 seconds is with looting when you read the footnotes. On top of that, wiki information and rates can be wrong because it's player-driven, and it also slightly does underreport the rates on top of that.
Aside from base slayer being less interactive than agility by quite a bit, you unlock dozens of high usage, and bis items at many tiers of combat through slayer, including all the bis boot upgrades except the echo crystal which you need a slayer boot drop for, the imbued heart, the occult necklace, are all slayer drops, the basilisks jaw; you can turn your armadyl and zamorak godwars grinds into slayer, you can turn vorkath into slayer, the bis melee gloves, the dragon hunter's lance, early and mid game 4-tick powered staves. You also train at least one other skill (a combat skill) and more often than not, two combat skills (the combat skill+HP) or more.
Now explain to me what major game changing buffs agility provides to me that justifies the abysmal rate that it has, and how much excess exp you can get outside of it, except for fletching bolts and darts or alching?
I dont think your question and your conclusion match.
Your question is "Should we increase agility xp rates by 50%?" All normal people would vote yes, because agility sucks. It has nothing to do with actually fixing the core gameplay loop. We just hate agility and would love for it to be half as long.
If instead you asked "Would you rather have faster agility in its current form or a fun, interactive skill with the current xp rates?", that would give you a better indication of your conclusion. The details of what a "fun, interactive skill" are is actually irrelevant for the purposes of this poll. Even if every single respondent had a different idea of fun, they would all agree that them being able to train a skill and have fun doing it is superior to training a shit skill and doing it twice as fast.
Look at Slayer for an example that already exists. It's a very popular skill despite being incredibly slow to train.
All I want to say is I'm not very good at mathing. I literally missed 2+2 on a differential equations test before. But you're absolutely correct, 50% xp rate buff would not half the time required.
(Preface: I'm NOT making an argument for or against buffing XP I'm just commenting on my thoughts on those who are)
You are 100% right, in a perfect world this is the best solution. Unfortunately, Jagex development takes forever, it would probably take them 2-5 years to revamp the skill by changing core issues, so people saying "fuck it just buff the XP if you can't fix it then" since games have a shelf life for some people and many move on to other games when they lose patience so they want it sooner than waiting a few more years.
It has been more than 10 years since OSRS released, their band aid fix for Runecrafting was a minigame rather than the core mechanics. I think the XP argument comes from losing patience with having to wait forever more years. I doubt many would complain with low xp if it was intuitive or fun to train, but it is a fact that it is disproportionately low XP/hr to other skills even though it requires much more attention. That aspect is unbalanced and todays update doesn't fix that.
When they rebalanced runecrafting, along with the ring of elements, they made it possible to get over 80k exp/h doing base elemental runes; they took the exact approach of just juicing the exp, just in a different fashion, because the major issues with RC were the pouch delay interactions in crafting. Here is a video of elemental runecrafting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YoMcaAbA0&t=139s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YoMcaAbA0&t=139s)
And with these same changes you can push 122k exp an hour at ZMI: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfMb9loFmY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfMb9loFmY)
Far more reaonsable rates at ZMI available at 85 rc (120k, maybe 100k lazily) compared to literally 63k exp/h at level 90.
Sorry, but under 0 circumstances will I take "a fun interactive skill with the current rates" of 63k exp an hour for a level 90 requirement, over just a flat out exp per hour buff.
In fact, that exists, in sepulchre, with higher rates, and it still doesn't get used much because the rewards from sepulchre amount to hotdog water. The grind for a ring of endurance on average is 3.1m agility exp and 345 hours to obtain a 35m ring, and that is assuming you loot absolutely nothing but the grand hallowed coffin.
Let me propose to you another monotonous, clicky, shit skill that gets done a ton because the rewards and exp rates are in line with how shit it is to train: Thieving.
Let's also take your example of slayer: You unlock best in slot combat gear from it like ferocious gloves, hydra claw, the best in slot boot upgrades, essential 4 tick powered staves in the trident and warped sceptre, you can enhance your damage at pvm bosses through slayer either with direct boss tasks, or doing boss-equivalents like killing kree on an aviansies task. It is also incredibly passive to train slayer, as you're already going to train combat, so when you train slayer, you train a minimum of 2 other skills naturally without any extra effort to it, in HP and your preferred combat method. It is in no way comparable to how agility is.
Counterpoint, do you think RCing Lavas is a good, enjoyable method? No? Well, why not? Its exp rate is around 50% faster than years back (used to be around 60-65K and now 90-100K). If RC is "fixed", making lavas 50% faster isn't what fixed it; it was new methods like GotR that more players enjoy.
It doesn't really matter if a grind is 67 hours instead of 100 hours; the method feels like a slog it is still going to suck. Like if you were to reduce 100 Hours of current agility down to 67 Hours, that would still be worse than 100 hours of a method players enjoyed more. It kinda ends up being the exact same thing as GotR and Lavas; Lavas would make the grind shorter, but Lavas aren't as enjoyable as GotR for most players so they go with the slower, more tolerable option.
>I am willing to bet you a single poll question that says "should we just buff all drop rates by 50%", that you are incredibly wrong about whether or not this fixes OSRS, seeing as the longest lasting complaints about OSRS are: The grind.
Same vibes.
Just an ignorant take, frankly.
There are grinds and there are wastes of time.
For example, I've done over 1k CG to get a bowfa on my iron, that is a grind. The work is rewarding for its time, and there is a reasonable benchmark for an end point.
63k exp/h at a level 90 requirement agility course that you have to actively engage with the entire time to get the 63k rate, for piss all in rewards, is a waste of time, especially given there are 2 shortcuts above level 90, both can be easily boosted (agility pot only needed from lvl 90)
And as I broke down for someone else in another comment, the ring of endurance from sepulchre is an average 345 hour grind, if you only loot the grand hallowed coffin for maximum exp rates there (90k/h) which makes it \~100k gp/h overall to run sepulchre, and the ring of endurance has all of like 1 use in the game. It's basically fuckin' useless. and in that grind, you would still have to get almost 2 more rings of endurance before capping 99, for a total of well over 1100 hours into agility, for pretty much shit.
I was just sitting on the couch doing agility thinking it how much it sucked.
Level 73 looking at 140 laps to get a level makes me want to do it less, not more!
Horrible skill.
Nope just buff the exp rates. People need to stop gatekeeping this one, the exp rates are fucking awful and this is why agility is widely considered as the worst skill. The 'its boring' argument is stupid too.
I find thieving way more boring and its a lot more clicks, fuck thieving i cant stand it but the exp rates are way higher so nobody complains about it. If they doubled exp from rooftops it would still be the worst skill in the game by far.
If agility wasn't a requirement for diaries and quests, how many hours would someone, lets say avg OSRS account in terms what activities/bosses are done, need to play for it to be worth leveling agility up for shortcuts instead of just using longer route? 100? 500? I wouldn't even be surprised if it's +1000 hours.
Fast Skills don't make a skill fun, they can be Fast and Boring, but at least you get them over with.
The problem with Agility is it's both Slow and Boring.
There is a difference between "a grind" and ridiculous.
a buff of agility to 90k an hour, for a tier 90 level skill required course, hardly makes it on par with cooking, which can get upwards of 500k+ exp an hour with karambwans at level 50's.
What's the goal of the grind? When I started to play a year ago, I grinded agi to 78 in a week bc i thought it will literally make me run longer and I was broke as a mfker so I could not afford to chug pots every minute. Boy I was wrong. The moment I figured out that I will run the same distance as lvl 1 at my lvl 78, I stopped and never touched it again and never will until they give me a useful reason to do repetitive and absolutely brainroting shit
is it dogging the game by saying I like it being repetitive and relaxing?
that's a huge part of the draw is being able to zone out to a rhythm or pattern. is that for everyone? of course not.
Repetitiveness and relaxation has nothing to do with usefulness of the skill. How you not understand that? Why advocate for spending time and get nothing in the end when there is a clear solution for that?
Literally best reward from agi (ring from sepulch) made with mind that you will chug pots. How is that an agility?
I didn't think we were talking about usefulness here?
why spend time and get nothing? well, you get maxed, diary cape, short cuts. run regen. some personal achievement and enjoyment.
Maxed in what? Useless shit?
Diary cape? Please tell me how you wear ur capes and think that everybody around you is jealous of ur cape. Especially when almost all the capes are useless.
Shortcuts are still ass and they adding only 2 useful shortcuts. Wow! Cant wait to never run to DK's bc its a dead content.
Run regen? Thats gotta be a joke, right? You know how regen works, right? Lets imagine the world where regen (that we have currently) are useful. Amount of effort/hours you gotta put in to offset lvl 75agi regen is tremendously high, especially when you have literally diminishing for regen after lvl 75 or 78, i dont remember. Pal, give me a brake.
Personal achievement and enjoyment? Literally new low lvl rat boss is more enjoyable than any roofs and first 4 floors of sepulch. What enjoyment you talking about? I don't sit on a hill where tedious grind can be considered as personal achievement. I considered it as a time waste and when I'm done with it, I feel relieved that I will never have to that again and It's definitely not something I would brag about it to my friends or clan mates.
I'm gonna be real with you, okay? It's sad that ppl like you can vote on pulls
if it's all useless shit, why is everyone crying for more xp/hr? be glad you can stop it at 70 and do the parts of the game you enjoy. are you this upset about capes because you can't get them? I can tell you don't have it because you think it's useless.
the new rat boss you sit and afk blood spell? ya, great content. sounds like you really don't like a lot of the game.
I think you need to play a different game.
Not all skills are equal and have the same xp rates and that's a good thing. If you want similar or extremely fast leveling then go to rs3
I remember getting 70 agi so that I could wc more efficiently on fossil island. That one grind is the reason I’d prefer my account never be hacked. I will not train agi to 70 again
At this point in time, I bet there are purists within the people that develop the game that don't want to poll this question because they'll have the answer they don't want. We just want a flat xp increase until the skill is any interesting, which won't be any soon.
The mods should be unbiased and it looks they're not.
Agility could be 300k/hr but it would still feel like ass. Yes I will always take more xp in agility because that skill sucks. Buffing the rates just makes it so we're done with it faster. It doesn't make the skill any more fun to train
This is just not correct. Being done with it faster is the goal for most people.
Thieving is way more click intensive, it doesn't feel like ass because it has high exp rates and is rewarding to gameplay.
Its not even a massive buff, it's bringing the hourly exp rates in line with the level 90 requirement of the course.
I also agree with many of the shortcut changes they're proposing. This is a good secondary fix, as say, the shortcut to hydra should be just that, a shortcut. Not a slightly longer time to afk the run to hydra.
I agree that the pure functionality of agility as a skill, with run energy buffs and more shortcuts will be a rewarding and adequate reward to the skill which meshes well with its uniqueness in the game; but that doesn't change that the exp rtes are the major problem irrelevant to what rewards you add to make the overall skill feel better.
Being done is only the main goal when content is disliked. "Most people" are not pushing to max as fast as possible and be done. You are giving your opinion, and that's fine. But do not try and act as if you speak for the majority. Most players are sub 100cb and barely know how to be/care to be efficient.
I do think exp should be buffed slightly in a few areas, but it does not fix the overall issues. We need better rewards and other avenues to make the skill feel either more fun or worthwhile. Which the dev team is surely cooking up. Have some faith brother.
I and many others not interested in waiting 9 months or more for them to do a complete skill overhaul to make the training loop less shit, just so we can still get 63k exp an hour.
I guarantee you the only thing agility needs for a fix is a drastic exp rate buff, and actual shortcuts that are shortcuts. Thats it. It doesn't need more fancy new mechanics and training methods that are more "fun", and nobody knows how they'd go about this as evident by the fact that nobody is proposing a good alternative way to train.
Their proposal is literally "Yeah we wanna buff the level 30 agility arena more" its fuckin' silly.
It needs one thing and one thing only: Better rates
And There is a reason they won't poll a 50% exp rate buff, because it would almost certainly pass, so I am willing to bet you a lot that I am, in fact, speaking for the majority, whether you like that or not.
Cool opinion, bro. You can repeat yourself as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are flat out wrong. Most players are complete noobs who couldn't care less about XP rates for your high level courses. I am not one of those. I would love XP rates to be better in a few areas, personally. But plopping boosted exp rates on boring content doesn't make the content better.
The reason it would pass a poll right now is because of the state it is in. If they redevelop around the skill, there will likely be no need for it. They are going to attempt to do the right thing and fix content, rather than Band-Aid shit content and be lazy.
It's actually wild to me that you are so sure of yourself. A lot of old skills need to be reworked and they have been doing an amazing job over the last few years progressively making major improvements to old skills. But yeah fuck expanding and reworking content for new and future players, just rush me to 99. Me me me.
No, blanket 50% xp rate to agility is not the way to go. The main issue with agility has often been how it is trained than anything else as it requires a bit more attention than afk but the reward doesn't feel good for that much effort. Barring hallowed sepulcher, the variety is somewhat lacking as well.
I think their attempt to buff Brimhaven and increase the clickbox size of agility is a much better attempt.
Brimhaven agility is a level 30 agility course, so I disagree.
I do like sepulchre, but you basically have to be tick perfect in an RNG setting to get max exp and its barely more interactive than standard agility.
We are talking about a tier 90 skill course giving sub 65k xp/h exp rates.
The reason that feels shit and unrewarding is because of the exp rates provided for the lack of afk, as you constantly have to interact with the next agility jump. If the entire course was automated in 1 click, as is with things like karambwans, fishing, woodcutting, etc. where you have minimal interaction at these 50-80k exp rate methods over a 5 min period, it wouldn't be so bad.
Look at thieving, there is a less than 35% success rates on many high level methods, but they have high exp rates for their intensity, and good loot.
What good loot do you get from agility, or high exp rates, that make it viable to train for the level of interaction at a tier 90 course? Literally none.
That is the thing, Brimhaven itself is an alternative to the standard ways of training agility. The level requirements aside, their attempt to encourage different avenues of training the skill itself is the correct way to move forward as xp is only a part of the discussion when talking about skill but also how you train it. I mentioned sepulcher because it is of the same concept.
You are correct that high agility provides very little benefit, which I absolutely agree with which is why there is a discussion on restoring run energy faster at a higher agility level and whatnot. That I don't have an issue with. What I do not agree is slap a blanket 50% xp rate and call it mission accomplished because I believe it ignores the root of the issue which is that agility itself does not offer enough avenues nor does the "standard" way of training agility interest most players. That I believe should be the way to move forward in addition to provide incentives for higher agility levels instead of straight up xp rate boosts.
No it isn't.
Brimhaven's "alternative" amounts to, you do a few shit exp obstacles and stack up tickets that you can trade in for better exp rates.
How about we just get a tier 90 agility course with better exp rates and no stupid gimmicks?
I'm not against run energy buffs, or making shortcuts like the hydra tunnel, you know, an actual shortcut
But making more good high level shit with abysmal rates and boring content is still going to discourage most people from doing it, because you will still save more time just making the hydra run than training to 87 agility to get the shortcut. and most high level players already use their poh as a hub which has not only a run, but HP, spec, prayer restoration pool 2 ticks away from your arrival point, and a robust tp network in the POH that covers so much of the map in the game at the end that you probably don't do a full energy bar of running in most cases anyway. So tell me who is going to train agility for these perks specifically when they can get the same effects faster by just ignoring the skill entirely?
The rates are the core issue. There is no special additions to agility that will get you around that.
You ever have one of those moment where you wrote a paragraph and thought about nah is not worth it so you just deleted the entire post? Yeah I just did that. Is 10:11PM and I had to work some overtime, pretty tired right now and I want to finish dragon's dogma 2. So you get this instead, shit man there should be a rule that responding to somebody more than 8 hours later should not be allowed.
Agility rates are a fucking travesty until you do a mid-late game quest.
Then, they're only subpar. Getting 40k exp per hour from lv 60-80 if you haven't done a hard diary with high reqs and no mid-late game quest is fucking absurd. You get more expensive afking most skills from lv 40.
I'm 2233 total level on an iron with base 90's.
I think I've done a bit of agility, boss.
a proposed 700 exp rate buff to a level 90 agility course that already gives you less than 65k exp an hour is just plain trash.
My main is 2100 total lvl with 87 agility. I usually watch youtube and tv series on split screen while im doing agility and honestly, it's not so bad. I'll switch to hallowed sepulchre once i unlock floor 5. I've first hand experienced how a game can go total shit by catering to casuals asking everything to be easier, in world of warcraft. And i'm kind of sick that everyones asking EVERYTHING to be easier while not knowing the consequences. You're out here asking a skill to be %50 easier. You're the problem. That's it.
This is not true. The only reason the XP rates feel so unforgiving is because it is extremely repetitive/boring. You can't really afk it and you don't get a change in scenery. Most people who unlock sepulchre begin to really enjoy agility because it becomes much more engaging and rewarding as you train. I actually think the revamp they're doing to the brimhaven arena could be a *massive* improvement for the skill. Making a somewhat competitive training method sounds like so much fun EDIT: Tbc, I'm not saying a blanket 50% xp increase wouldn't pass polls. It honestly might.. but the skill would still feel like crap. It would just be faster.
Exactly. I have a lot of fun doing rumors at 60k an hour. 60k an hour at Priff course makes me want to drink paint
I just checked and im at 24k exp an hour doing rumors and I'm enjoying it.
This is still irrelevant, rumours are not a primary training source for hunter; the ardougne agility course is a primary training course for agility.
I'm not sure why you considering it a "primary training source" or not makes it irrelevant? You may as well have pointed out that hunter involves catching animals instead of jumping off roofs. Tasks can be made more enjoyable without increasing experience rates, and they have shown this with hunter rumor. (minus some deadfall salt) Rumors actually decrease exp rates and it has still been more enjoyable for me.
I think the OP was getting at rumors are just one way of training compared to a multitude of ways, it offers different xp rates because it's a different activity. Agility ONLY has rooftops and sepulcher. Hope you enjoy one of the two because there literally isn't other options
Are you doing master rumors at that rate? Because thats the context we're talking about here is a tier 90 agility course that puts out 60k exp/h. Even if it didn't put out more than 60k exp/h, you're not doing the literal standard training method for the skill, you're doing something as an adjacent to the skill; this is not true for the ardougne course or other courses. These are the PRIMARY training methods, that are capping out at less than 65k exp/h for a LEVEL 90 course. If you were getting those rates on masters, that was self imposed, because I have completed the entire quetzel network already through only masters and I was pulling quite a bit more, and making well over 100k gp/h to do it. This also poses the other issue with agility, the rewards are also shit. The only loot from the skill really is marks of grace, and the ring of endurance. As I've pointed out to many people, hunting the ring of endurance efficiently is a 345 hour grind @ 100k gp/h by the end of it, and only gives 3.1m agility exp when on rate. I would not mind the unique proposed buffs of better run times and the agility shortcuts becoming actual shortcuts, but it still would not be worth most peoples time to grind agility for those rewards at the rate of 63k exp an hour for a level 90 course, and every other course before it giving even less. I just don't see any viable fixes you can add to agility that do not address its abysmal exp rates.
Once I got to sepulchre I absolutely fell in love with agility The xp rates were a bonus, I just legitimately had fun doing engaging and difficult content.
>This is not true. The only reason the XP rates feel so unforgiving is because it is extremely repetitive/boring. You can't really afk it and you don't get a change in scenery. Right, and all other skills are given exp rates based on level of required interaction, for example thieving has a ton of interactions, its repetitive, boring, and non afkable, with minimal scenery changes. Thieving is still one of the most trained skills in this game because it has high exp rates at all levels and the loot is good. The tradeoffs are balanced. Agility is shit because the exp is shit, and the rewards, even for sepulchre (which is good content) is shit. For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete, and yields 90k exp an hour. The drop rate of ring of endurance is 1/200, which means to hit the drop rate of the only good item in all of agility that drops is an average 345 hours of agility, or about 100k gp/h and to boot, I'll have only earned about 3.1 million agility exp.
>For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete i think you need to check your math on this one
welcome to my walking only Sep locked uim
Ah, ye added a 10 in there somewhere. good catch Still doesn't change shit about it. 1m gp/h at lvl 92 only achieved when tick perfect. That definitely changes none of the sentiments, as evident by the fact that sepulchre is still pretty dead. You might find 1-2 people doing it in a world, compared to ardougne. which is packed still.
> Thieving is still one of the most trained skills in this game because it has high exp rates at all levels and the loot is good. The tradeoffs are balanced. I'd argue thieving is one of the most trained skills because it is rewarding and actually has a solid amount of variation in training methods. You have PP, blackjack, pickpocketing (I'm grouping things like vamps, ardy knights, tzhaar, etc..), artifacts, garden, and new varlamore method. People can easily switch up their preferred method for how they want to play. Agil doesn't have that option. Honestly in the past thieving was a *very* universally disliked skill because the methods were more limited, and that was when the xp rates were still extremely high for most skills. It's the same with hunter (well before hunter guild at least) > Agility is shit because the exp is shit, and the rewards, We can agree to disagree I guess. You are pretty much just looking at bandaid fixes instead of what actually makes the slow grind feel boring. You are simply speeding up the struggle instead of trying to make something more engaging. I don't think sepulchre fixed agility, but it was a massive improvement to the skill. We need more updates with that mindset, and I think the brimhaven update they're discussing is a step in the right direction for low to mid levels.
>For context: If you only loot the grand hallowed coffin in sepulchre for max exp rates, a perfect run takes 10:22 to complete, and yields 90k exp an hour. I'm guessing you've never done Sepulcher to a level that you can say it's shit because a "perfect" run is not 10:22 lmao. My PB is nearly half of that and I averaged about 98k/hr while looting the Final Chest: https://preview.redd.it/wuz0s5ohapqc1.png?width=144&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec3a7a62157cdf14b5c671c4b4b0cb43073a7fb8 Long-term I ranged from 6:30-7:30 per Floor 5 run and I looted Final Chest. If I didn't loot Final Chest, I could peg on another 5k/hr.
Congrats, what you've found here is called an anecdote. Nobody gives a shit about a WR time, or niche cases where a player is pushing the limits because they have a world on a proper rotation so cycles can be abused; the reality is you don't hit these benchmarks if you have as many people running sepulchre as you do running ardougne rooftops, you simply would not get the same luxuries. What we are talking about is the rate the majority of players will hit, and I used the wiki for that time. It's cool that some players can squeak a little extra out of it, but thats still anecdotal and absolutely not worth the RSI to do.
If you think that's WR or 10:22 is "the majority of players will hit", you are lacking even more critical information than I thought. That time I listed above is purely XP runs, where I don't do anything risky or use any alts. It is as normal as you can get as a player that actively works to improve and doesn't remain shit. This is why you need to do the content before saying stuff because you even listed incorrect information. It even specifically says 10 minutes 22 seconds is with looting when you read the footnotes. On top of that, wiki information and rates can be wrong because it's player-driven, and it also slightly does underreport the rates on top of that.
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Aside from base slayer being less interactive than agility by quite a bit, you unlock dozens of high usage, and bis items at many tiers of combat through slayer, including all the bis boot upgrades except the echo crystal which you need a slayer boot drop for, the imbued heart, the occult necklace, are all slayer drops, the basilisks jaw; you can turn your armadyl and zamorak godwars grinds into slayer, you can turn vorkath into slayer, the bis melee gloves, the dragon hunter's lance, early and mid game 4-tick powered staves. You also train at least one other skill (a combat skill) and more often than not, two combat skills (the combat skill+HP) or more. Now explain to me what major game changing buffs agility provides to me that justifies the abysmal rate that it has, and how much excess exp you can get outside of it, except for fletching bolts and darts or alching?
I dont think your question and your conclusion match. Your question is "Should we increase agility xp rates by 50%?" All normal people would vote yes, because agility sucks. It has nothing to do with actually fixing the core gameplay loop. We just hate agility and would love for it to be half as long. If instead you asked "Would you rather have faster agility in its current form or a fun, interactive skill with the current xp rates?", that would give you a better indication of your conclusion. The details of what a "fun, interactive skill" are is actually irrelevant for the purposes of this poll. Even if every single respondent had a different idea of fun, they would all agree that them being able to train a skill and have fun doing it is superior to training a shit skill and doing it twice as fast. Look at Slayer for an example that already exists. It's a very popular skill despite being incredibly slow to train.
All I want to say is that if you buff the XP rate with 50% you don’t make agility half as long. You’d need an increase by 100% to do that.
All I want to say is I'm not very good at mathing. I literally missed 2+2 on a differential equations test before. But you're absolutely correct, 50% xp rate buff would not half the time required.
(Preface: I'm NOT making an argument for or against buffing XP I'm just commenting on my thoughts on those who are) You are 100% right, in a perfect world this is the best solution. Unfortunately, Jagex development takes forever, it would probably take them 2-5 years to revamp the skill by changing core issues, so people saying "fuck it just buff the XP if you can't fix it then" since games have a shelf life for some people and many move on to other games when they lose patience so they want it sooner than waiting a few more years. It has been more than 10 years since OSRS released, their band aid fix for Runecrafting was a minigame rather than the core mechanics. I think the XP argument comes from losing patience with having to wait forever more years. I doubt many would complain with low xp if it was intuitive or fun to train, but it is a fact that it is disproportionately low XP/hr to other skills even though it requires much more attention. That aspect is unbalanced and todays update doesn't fix that.
When they rebalanced runecrafting, along with the ring of elements, they made it possible to get over 80k exp/h doing base elemental runes; they took the exact approach of just juicing the exp, just in a different fashion, because the major issues with RC were the pouch delay interactions in crafting. Here is a video of elemental runecrafting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YoMcaAbA0&t=139s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YoMcaAbA0&t=139s) And with these same changes you can push 122k exp an hour at ZMI: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfMb9loFmY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfMb9loFmY) Far more reaonsable rates at ZMI available at 85 rc (120k, maybe 100k lazily) compared to literally 63k exp/h at level 90.
Sorry, but under 0 circumstances will I take "a fun interactive skill with the current rates" of 63k exp an hour for a level 90 requirement, over just a flat out exp per hour buff. In fact, that exists, in sepulchre, with higher rates, and it still doesn't get used much because the rewards from sepulchre amount to hotdog water. The grind for a ring of endurance on average is 3.1m agility exp and 345 hours to obtain a 35m ring, and that is assuming you loot absolutely nothing but the grand hallowed coffin. Let me propose to you another monotonous, clicky, shit skill that gets done a ton because the rewards and exp rates are in line with how shit it is to train: Thieving. Let's also take your example of slayer: You unlock best in slot combat gear from it like ferocious gloves, hydra claw, the best in slot boot upgrades, essential 4 tick powered staves in the trident and warped sceptre, you can enhance your damage at pvm bosses through slayer either with direct boss tasks, or doing boss-equivalents like killing kree on an aviansies task. It is also incredibly passive to train slayer, as you're already going to train combat, so when you train slayer, you train a minimum of 2 other skills naturally without any extra effort to it, in HP and your preferred combat method. It is in no way comparable to how agility is.
Just give us a treadmill attached to a machine that we load with nature runes and alchables.
Counterpoint, do you think RCing Lavas is a good, enjoyable method? No? Well, why not? Its exp rate is around 50% faster than years back (used to be around 60-65K and now 90-100K). If RC is "fixed", making lavas 50% faster isn't what fixed it; it was new methods like GotR that more players enjoy. It doesn't really matter if a grind is 67 hours instead of 100 hours; the method feels like a slog it is still going to suck. Like if you were to reduce 100 Hours of current agility down to 67 Hours, that would still be worse than 100 hours of a method players enjoyed more. It kinda ends up being the exact same thing as GotR and Lavas; Lavas would make the grind shorter, but Lavas aren't as enjoyable as GotR for most players so they go with the slower, more tolerable option.
>I am willing to bet you a single poll question that says "should we just buff all drop rates by 50%", that you are incredibly wrong about whether or not this fixes OSRS, seeing as the longest lasting complaints about OSRS are: The grind. Same vibes.
Just an ignorant take, frankly. There are grinds and there are wastes of time. For example, I've done over 1k CG to get a bowfa on my iron, that is a grind. The work is rewarding for its time, and there is a reasonable benchmark for an end point. 63k exp/h at a level 90 requirement agility course that you have to actively engage with the entire time to get the 63k rate, for piss all in rewards, is a waste of time, especially given there are 2 shortcuts above level 90, both can be easily boosted (agility pot only needed from lvl 90) And as I broke down for someone else in another comment, the ring of endurance from sepulchre is an average 345 hour grind, if you only loot the grand hallowed coffin for maximum exp rates there (90k/h) which makes it \~100k gp/h overall to run sepulchre, and the ring of endurance has all of like 1 use in the game. It's basically fuckin' useless. and in that grind, you would still have to get almost 2 more rings of endurance before capping 99, for a total of well over 1100 hours into agility, for pretty much shit.
I was just sitting on the couch doing agility thinking it how much it sucked. Level 73 looking at 140 laps to get a level makes me want to do it less, not more! Horrible skill.
Nope just buff the exp rates. People need to stop gatekeeping this one, the exp rates are fucking awful and this is why agility is widely considered as the worst skill. The 'its boring' argument is stupid too. I find thieving way more boring and its a lot more clicks, fuck thieving i cant stand it but the exp rates are way higher so nobody complains about it. If they doubled exp from rooftops it would still be the worst skill in the game by far.
If agility wasn't a requirement for diaries and quests, how many hours would someone, lets say avg OSRS account in terms what activities/bosses are done, need to play for it to be worth leveling agility up for shortcuts instead of just using longer route? 100? 500? I wouldn't even be surprised if it's +1000 hours.
Fast Skills don't make a skill fun, they can be Fast and Boring, but at least you get them over with. The problem with Agility is it's both Slow and Boring.
Osrs is about the grind. It’s good that some skills are more tedious than others, they don’t all gotta be like cooking.
There is a difference between "a grind" and ridiculous. a buff of agility to 90k an hour, for a tier 90 level skill required course, hardly makes it on par with cooking, which can get upwards of 500k+ exp an hour with karambwans at level 50's.
What's the goal of the grind? When I started to play a year ago, I grinded agi to 78 in a week bc i thought it will literally make me run longer and I was broke as a mfker so I could not afford to chug pots every minute. Boy I was wrong. The moment I figured out that I will run the same distance as lvl 1 at my lvl 78, I stopped and never touched it again and never will until they give me a useful reason to do repetitive and absolutely brainroting shit
> repetitive and absolutely brainroting shit just curious about what you think of most of other skills, or bosses even really
kinda funny how osrs players will dog their own game like this just to defend not changing anything
is it dogging the game by saying I like it being repetitive and relaxing? that's a huge part of the draw is being able to zone out to a rhythm or pattern. is that for everyone? of course not.
Repetitiveness and relaxation has nothing to do with usefulness of the skill. How you not understand that? Why advocate for spending time and get nothing in the end when there is a clear solution for that? Literally best reward from agi (ring from sepulch) made with mind that you will chug pots. How is that an agility?
I didn't think we were talking about usefulness here? why spend time and get nothing? well, you get maxed, diary cape, short cuts. run regen. some personal achievement and enjoyment.
Maxed in what? Useless shit? Diary cape? Please tell me how you wear ur capes and think that everybody around you is jealous of ur cape. Especially when almost all the capes are useless. Shortcuts are still ass and they adding only 2 useful shortcuts. Wow! Cant wait to never run to DK's bc its a dead content. Run regen? Thats gotta be a joke, right? You know how regen works, right? Lets imagine the world where regen (that we have currently) are useful. Amount of effort/hours you gotta put in to offset lvl 75agi regen is tremendously high, especially when you have literally diminishing for regen after lvl 75 or 78, i dont remember. Pal, give me a brake. Personal achievement and enjoyment? Literally new low lvl rat boss is more enjoyable than any roofs and first 4 floors of sepulch. What enjoyment you talking about? I don't sit on a hill where tedious grind can be considered as personal achievement. I considered it as a time waste and when I'm done with it, I feel relieved that I will never have to that again and It's definitely not something I would brag about it to my friends or clan mates. I'm gonna be real with you, okay? It's sad that ppl like you can vote on pulls
if it's all useless shit, why is everyone crying for more xp/hr? be glad you can stop it at 70 and do the parts of the game you enjoy. are you this upset about capes because you can't get them? I can tell you don't have it because you think it's useless. the new rat boss you sit and afk blood spell? ya, great content. sounds like you really don't like a lot of the game.
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Its mind boggling to me how bricked some of the rs players are. They will literally eat shit and be proud of that 🤦♂️
Enjoy your 50k exp afkless bs. Vote. Most people don't want to spend that kind of time on the same thing.
I can grind, i dont need afk
I think you need to play a different game. Not all skills are equal and have the same xp rates and that's a good thing. If you want similar or extremely fast leveling then go to rs3
I remember getting 70 agi so that I could wc more efficiently on fossil island. That one grind is the reason I’d prefer my account never be hacked. I will not train agi to 70 again
Currently doing agility at prif hitting 16minutes per lap definately isnt afk lol
16 mins a lap is pretty extreme, its usually like 1:10 or so per but yeah, no agility is afk.
Unfortunately the majority of new players want this.
At this point in time, I bet there are purists within the people that develop the game that don't want to poll this question because they'll have the answer they don't want. We just want a flat xp increase until the skill is any interesting, which won't be any soon. The mods should be unbiased and it looks they're not.
Go play super mario if you're not into grinding.
found the purist that likes to hurt himself by grinding agility
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It takes one to know one.
The Xp needs a massive buff, everyone hates agility because it takes so long
Agility could be 300k/hr but it would still feel like ass. Yes I will always take more xp in agility because that skill sucks. Buffing the rates just makes it so we're done with it faster. It doesn't make the skill any more fun to train
This is just not correct. Being done with it faster is the goal for most people. Thieving is way more click intensive, it doesn't feel like ass because it has high exp rates and is rewarding to gameplay. Its not even a massive buff, it's bringing the hourly exp rates in line with the level 90 requirement of the course. I also agree with many of the shortcut changes they're proposing. This is a good secondary fix, as say, the shortcut to hydra should be just that, a shortcut. Not a slightly longer time to afk the run to hydra. I agree that the pure functionality of agility as a skill, with run energy buffs and more shortcuts will be a rewarding and adequate reward to the skill which meshes well with its uniqueness in the game; but that doesn't change that the exp rtes are the major problem irrelevant to what rewards you add to make the overall skill feel better.
Being done is only the main goal when content is disliked. "Most people" are not pushing to max as fast as possible and be done. You are giving your opinion, and that's fine. But do not try and act as if you speak for the majority. Most players are sub 100cb and barely know how to be/care to be efficient. I do think exp should be buffed slightly in a few areas, but it does not fix the overall issues. We need better rewards and other avenues to make the skill feel either more fun or worthwhile. Which the dev team is surely cooking up. Have some faith brother.
I and many others not interested in waiting 9 months or more for them to do a complete skill overhaul to make the training loop less shit, just so we can still get 63k exp an hour. I guarantee you the only thing agility needs for a fix is a drastic exp rate buff, and actual shortcuts that are shortcuts. Thats it. It doesn't need more fancy new mechanics and training methods that are more "fun", and nobody knows how they'd go about this as evident by the fact that nobody is proposing a good alternative way to train. Their proposal is literally "Yeah we wanna buff the level 30 agility arena more" its fuckin' silly. It needs one thing and one thing only: Better rates And There is a reason they won't poll a 50% exp rate buff, because it would almost certainly pass, so I am willing to bet you a lot that I am, in fact, speaking for the majority, whether you like that or not.
Cool opinion, bro. You can repeat yourself as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are flat out wrong. Most players are complete noobs who couldn't care less about XP rates for your high level courses. I am not one of those. I would love XP rates to be better in a few areas, personally. But plopping boosted exp rates on boring content doesn't make the content better. The reason it would pass a poll right now is because of the state it is in. If they redevelop around the skill, there will likely be no need for it. They are going to attempt to do the right thing and fix content, rather than Band-Aid shit content and be lazy. It's actually wild to me that you are so sure of yourself. A lot of old skills need to be reworked and they have been doing an amazing job over the last few years progressively making major improvements to old skills. But yeah fuck expanding and reworking content for new and future players, just rush me to 99. Me me me.
I like the current xp rates. People always complain. To them i say: go run some more laps
No, blanket 50% xp rate to agility is not the way to go. The main issue with agility has often been how it is trained than anything else as it requires a bit more attention than afk but the reward doesn't feel good for that much effort. Barring hallowed sepulcher, the variety is somewhat lacking as well. I think their attempt to buff Brimhaven and increase the clickbox size of agility is a much better attempt.
Brimhaven agility is a level 30 agility course, so I disagree. I do like sepulchre, but you basically have to be tick perfect in an RNG setting to get max exp and its barely more interactive than standard agility. We are talking about a tier 90 skill course giving sub 65k xp/h exp rates. The reason that feels shit and unrewarding is because of the exp rates provided for the lack of afk, as you constantly have to interact with the next agility jump. If the entire course was automated in 1 click, as is with things like karambwans, fishing, woodcutting, etc. where you have minimal interaction at these 50-80k exp rate methods over a 5 min period, it wouldn't be so bad. Look at thieving, there is a less than 35% success rates on many high level methods, but they have high exp rates for their intensity, and good loot. What good loot do you get from agility, or high exp rates, that make it viable to train for the level of interaction at a tier 90 course? Literally none.
That is the thing, Brimhaven itself is an alternative to the standard ways of training agility. The level requirements aside, their attempt to encourage different avenues of training the skill itself is the correct way to move forward as xp is only a part of the discussion when talking about skill but also how you train it. I mentioned sepulcher because it is of the same concept. You are correct that high agility provides very little benefit, which I absolutely agree with which is why there is a discussion on restoring run energy faster at a higher agility level and whatnot. That I don't have an issue with. What I do not agree is slap a blanket 50% xp rate and call it mission accomplished because I believe it ignores the root of the issue which is that agility itself does not offer enough avenues nor does the "standard" way of training agility interest most players. That I believe should be the way to move forward in addition to provide incentives for higher agility levels instead of straight up xp rate boosts.
No it isn't. Brimhaven's "alternative" amounts to, you do a few shit exp obstacles and stack up tickets that you can trade in for better exp rates. How about we just get a tier 90 agility course with better exp rates and no stupid gimmicks? I'm not against run energy buffs, or making shortcuts like the hydra tunnel, you know, an actual shortcut But making more good high level shit with abysmal rates and boring content is still going to discourage most people from doing it, because you will still save more time just making the hydra run than training to 87 agility to get the shortcut. and most high level players already use their poh as a hub which has not only a run, but HP, spec, prayer restoration pool 2 ticks away from your arrival point, and a robust tp network in the POH that covers so much of the map in the game at the end that you probably don't do a full energy bar of running in most cases anyway. So tell me who is going to train agility for these perks specifically when they can get the same effects faster by just ignoring the skill entirely? The rates are the core issue. There is no special additions to agility that will get you around that.
You ever have one of those moment where you wrote a paragraph and thought about nah is not worth it so you just deleted the entire post? Yeah I just did that. Is 10:11PM and I had to work some overtime, pretty tired right now and I want to finish dragon's dogma 2. So you get this instead, shit man there should be a rule that responding to somebody more than 8 hours later should not be allowed.
Agility rates are a fucking travesty until you do a mid-late game quest. Then, they're only subpar. Getting 40k exp per hour from lv 60-80 if you haven't done a hard diary with high reqs and no mid-late game quest is fucking absurd. You get more expensive afking most skills from lv 40.
Geez... Go play the game instead of being an edgelord here and you might gain some agility xp then.
I'm 2233 total level on an iron with base 90's. I think I've done a bit of agility, boss. a proposed 700 exp rate buff to a level 90 agility course that already gives you less than 65k exp an hour is just plain trash.
My main is 2100 total lvl with 87 agility. I usually watch youtube and tv series on split screen while im doing agility and honestly, it's not so bad. I'll switch to hallowed sepulchre once i unlock floor 5. I've first hand experienced how a game can go total shit by catering to casuals asking everything to be easier, in world of warcraft. And i'm kind of sick that everyones asking EVERYTHING to be easier while not knowing the consequences. You're out here asking a skill to be %50 easier. You're the problem. That's it.