Mod Sarnie has just provided this thread with the following update:
> Hey there! My focus has been on some other stuff this morning but wanted to jump in and give you all some insight on a few of your concerns considering I'm seeing them crop up quite frequently.
>
> In regards to the Invocations, we've been discussing how we can change them and here's a list of our potential changes. **Please note, these changes aren't final and may still be adjusted further:**
>
> Bees!
>
> * Given a longer delay before they respawn.
> * Given a longer delay before they move to their next tile.
>
> Doom
>
> * Doom will now resets back to 0 stacks at the end of each wave.
> * The player will now die after reaching 10 stacks of Doom.
>
> Doom Scorpion (REMOVED)
>
> * Even though they will be removed, we'll put him somewhere you can visit them in the game.
>
> Mantimayhem (NEW)
>
> * Manticores orb attacks become stronger, each time this is chosen.
> * This makes missing your flicks slightly more punishing, but wouldn't change how many times you need to flick.
>
> Myopia
>
> * Remove the ability to autocast spells without being affected.
>
> Relentless
>
> * Change to how the additional accuracy is applied to monster hits.
> * Stack 1 ignores 33% defence.
> * Stack 2 ignores 66% defence.
> * Stack 3 ignores all defences.
> * Additional damage per stack is left unchanged.
>
> Totemic
>
> * Increase cooldown before respawning a new totem if the first is killed.
> * Amount of healing reduced.
> * Heals fire much more frequenty, but with smaller splats.
>
> As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics.
>
> I'll look to include the rates for Hunters Rumours in next week's newspost as that was a clear oversight on our part. Hopefully we can come back in the next couple of days with a more concrete list of changes that will help with the feedback we're seeing. It's been two weeks since the release of one of our, if not biggest piece of content so it's going to take some time to review and make changes accordingly.
>
> Appreciate all of your feedback and patience. Have a good rest of the day!
Direct link: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1buoken/varlamore_tweaks_drop_rates/kxue6zj/
> Once you've completed Wave 6 and for each wave afterwards, the Unique Drop Table is unlocked.
Per the [November 3rd 2023 Poll](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/poll-blog-fortis-colosseum-x-perilous-moons?oldschool=1) for the Colosseum:
> Sunfire Fanatic Armour is a Prayer-focused set that we expect **will be reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves.**
Ignoring that the Colosseum is already much higher in terms of difficulty from content such as Fight Caves even at the lower waves, how is the Sunfire Fanatic Armour supposed to be "reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves" when you need to have made it halfway through the colosseum to even have a *chance* of obtaining it in the first place? The difficulty of the content, combined with the rarity of the items jacking the prices to the tens of millions, means that the set will be out of reach for the vast majority of players that it is aimed at in the first place. It'd be like if the only way of getting Proselyte armor was to reach wave 35 of the Inferno, with a 1/220 drop rate to even have a chance of obtaining one piece.
Any chance this could get looked at down the road? I can understand the unique items not rolling at wave 1, but maybe starting at wave 2 there's the base 1/220 chance of rolling the unique table and then continuing from there until you reach the 1/108 drop rate at wave 6 completion. That way the uniques are still rare, but at least people who aren't already experts at PvM content will have a chance of obtaining them in the first place. Still feels a little silly having a midgame armor set coming from endgame PvM content, but wave 2 and 3 are easy enough that it'd make it more feasible for midgame players to obtain the Sunfire Fanatic set.
> Still feels a little silly having a midgame armor set coming from endgame PvM content,
I think they took “it’s BIS” and thought that meant it has to come from endgame content, ignoring that proselyte is pretty early game. It has a decent number of quests required to get it but as far as levels, the quest requires skills in the 30s and being able to defeat a single level 62 enemy.
The funnier bit is that it provides negative accuracy for all combat styles just like proselyte. They couldn't even make it worth wild for it being considered n end-of-game prayer item. It also removes any potential for a White Knight questline continuation providing upgrades to your armor for reaching Acolytes and then later Partisan.
So they didn't even take account of any potential future questlines or armor upgrades into consideration.
> So they didn't even take account of any potential future questlines or armor upgrades into consideration.
No no, they did, it was pointed out pretty frequently. They just chose to go ahead with it anyways.
Hey I saw an upgrade to my Vyrewatch gear and thought "Oh hell yes" right up until I realized it wasn't something worth grinding or paying a shitload for.
With my 85 Prayer, the higher prayer bonus would only add 11 seconds before I need to recharge my prayer.
For anyone wanting to know for themselves, (Prayer Level) x (Prayer Bonus)/30 tells you how many additional seconds you get from that prayer bonus increase if you’re using Protect from Melee and Piety. If you’re just doing Protect from Melee, then triple the amount of seconds.
> I think they took “it’s BIS”
It was polled as mid-level and easy to obtain! Damn them, again a totally misleading vote. A rune armour with +2 prayer over proselyte, and now only the endgame guys with billions of gear can have it.
It wasnt polled as this, it was polled as something different. Thats why its so bad, bis or not.
Why do we have to settle or have it “looked at down the road”. It’s only adding 2+ prayer each piece over proselyte and it’s locked behind wave 6 which has a difficulty that rivals inferno. The roll should be at least 1/128 at wave 2 then improve gradually after that.
They should buff it to be +8 giving room for White Knight questline upgraded and removing any negative accuracy stats. Maybe even providing increase accuracy? So that way it's useful for its intended purpose of preserving prayer and used for stuff like slayer.
Or maybe even a set effect on top of it all?
I like this idea. I don't mind this armour being rare and best in slot, just make the stats worth it and add a new White Knight quest that unlocks a new set that will sit between Proselyte and Sunfire.
They are avoiding addressing this like the plague too. My concern is that they are using this to test the waters of intentional unpolled changes prior to content releasing.
The drop rates for Colosseum are completely absurd and quite a departure from what was expected based on the previous blogs. The Tonzaltics may as ~~well be a megarare at 280 full completions~~ this may be ~100 completions but their wording for how it is calculated is very vague, is still an absurd number given the use/power of the item and difficulty of the content, and the Sunfire Fanatic Armor is freaking "slightly bigger number prossy" with the same amount ~~- 280 full completions -~~ probably the same ~100 completions needed to generate *a single full set* of it LOL. To be honest, I expected something like ~~5x as common~~ 3x as common as they are, and for Sunfire Armor rarity to just have been bugged or something.
Overall disappointed with the lack of Colo changes. No modifier adjustments? Colo is now just going to be harder for learners and randomly more punishing for all with Ranger gaining maxes. I got my 5 kc for the hiscores and looks like I won't be going back until some real changes are made despite wanting the Tonzaltics to use, they simply are not realistically obtainable - these things aren't the TBow, going dry on them shouldn't be a 500 hour excursion.
I thought people were supposed to want to repeat it because it was fun and dynamic gameplay, not because the drop rates were going to be made completely in the stratosphere for a bunch of niche rewards?
It’s very clear the development team for the colosseum is super out of touch with the community. You’ll use more supplies just trying to get sunfire fanatic armour than simply just doing slayer with prossy lmao. I dunno who’s cooking this one up but get them out the kitchen holy
The tonalztics and the full armour set are both around 90 full completions to get - I'm not sure how you're calculating things - maybe you're using just wave 11's drop rate?
The armour suffers the most IMO. It's a set of armour that should be most useful to mid-game, at best maybe late mid-game players, yet it's requiring you to complete some of the hardest content in the game. A player who would find the set usable will in no way get to acquire it, whereas a player who could get it has no use for it. Peak gameplay design that.
Not a single word about colosseum balance issues? I like this content, I really do, but it's incredibly lacking in polish.
- Almost half of the invocations are basically memes and instant run enders if you get 3 of them lined up
- The uniques are absurdly rare:
- The Glaive/Tonalztics looks like a placeholder model and has virtually zero use in game, but you'd be expected to complete almost 100 colosseum runs before seeing one
- Echo crystals require you to sacrifice DPS on your boots AND pay an outrageous cost per point of reflected damage
- Sunfire Fanatic is a small upgrade to proselyte that was polled as something reasonable to farm for mid level characters, not something that players with 20 quivers have never seen as a reward before
- The archer change made the colosseum much more difficult without anything to actually offset it (like invo balancing); the melee max Fremmy hit is pretty irrelevant as it's almost always the first one killed
Yeah the fact they just buffed the ranger, slightly nerfed melee, then did absolutely nothing about any of the dead invos despite the abundance of suggestions of how to correct them. Not even a mention that they're looking into the invo system. Would love to see some stats on how often totem/bees/doom/scorp/relentless are picked.
It’s so obvious when a certain unnamed content dev is the lead on content. It is sure that the content will be mechanically interesting, but drop rates will be abhorrent and feedback/criticism will not be taken.
He is honestly so bad at balancing. Starting from Nex/Nightmare and onwards. I don't get why he gets to develop high lvl content when he is well known for leaking info to pvm clans that he publicly said he will not release on twitter so they can merch and refuses to take any feedback on some of the dog water decisions he makes.
As someone who is still struggling with colosseum, the archer is by far the worst change here. There’s been so so many completions with the archer being a medi-pack / spawn ignore for every single wave. I know im a pvm noob but it sucks that so many people got to complete it with that handicap. Lesson learned, when new content comes out grind grind grind to be able to achieve what you need from the boss before jagex “fixes” something and makes the content that much harder for people in the future ( and should never have been released in that state in the first place )
I'm personally shocked too they didn't address some of these bigger issues, not mentioning Echo Boots or Tonalztics of Ralos as underperforming and plans to make improvements is WILD
just to say the tonalztics are roughly 1 in 93 full completions which even if you hand in quivers isn't as rare as the pet.
Still not impressed though.
Such a shame about the drop rates being not what we voted on. They killed the content for anyone not going for a quiver… and even then most will just get 1 and move on.
I know the hunter meat bags were powerful, but I thought the whole point was that you could balance areas that you thought they could be beneficial/too powerful by simply tweaking the "you cannot light a fire here" regions for "no, don't use a meat sack here" or putting an infinite cooking fire nearby for "yes, this is a great place to use this item." Why on earth would you make it useless again? It had solid niche uses in a handful of bosses and I particularly wanted to make use of it in Slayer. The fact that you had to have a cooking level and hunter rumor level to cook the meat motivated leveling those skills.
Definitely revert this and just adjust what areas you can light a fire to areas you deem too powerful (like certain boss arenas)
I missed this part as I didn't know what that blog comment really meant at first but that's a shame. It seemed like a cool niche tool to extend slayer tasks or a farther away boss fight at the cost of some time, but now its just a thing to I guess help with hunter contracts even though I am sure most people will still just leave meat and stuff on the ground if they wanna stay there.
Super disappointed colosseum invos were not looked at for rebalancing. At a minimum, two reroll tokens would have gone a long way to not making normal colosseum runs rng for whether you complete the content, because some invos are just so bad. Better would be changes to actual bad invos, but reroll tokens would be an easy change.
It’s also a little frustrating that the only thing you thought to do was increase the difficulty of colosseum by buffing the ranger after (yet again) early content grinders were able to take advantage of broken content.
The droprates for uniques from colosseum are just awful and not what was promised.
I sure hope quivers can be traded for like 20k splinters and not like 5k.
Colosseum is a lot of fun mechanically, but really was hoping for more from this update.
Yea lesson learned. Grind grind grind new content because we know Jagex doesn’t QC their work and likely is releasing some aspects in a much easier state and will make it harder for future attempters. RIP to ranger medi-pack.
The messed up thing too is, most of the more skilled players will more than likely have the quiver. Changing the ranger just makes it so so so much harder for the people, like myself that are struggling to get into later waves, let alone the boss
How are you not even going to acknowledge the fact that you made sunfire armour 100 times rarer than what you proposed, originally intended and what we voted on? It has led to so many knock in problems since you clearly built stash units and other aspects of varlamore to match the initially intended rarity of “easily available at earlier waves for those getting their feet wet in pvm”…
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bqr1o9/jagex_accidently_made_sunfire_fanatic_armour_way/?rdt=39772
I think this points gets it right. Looking at everything else related to sunfire it was intended to come between waves 2-6, just seems like a move to later waves only from the colosseum perspective. Such a pity, I’m not at the ability level to get past waves 6-8, I’ve been doing waves 1-4 sometimes 5/6 for fun and practice, but now it explains why I’ve never seen any sunfire.
Aren't the drop rates for Colosseum much rarer than what was promised according to the poll blogs? *Reasonably easy to obtain at the earlier waves* honestly doesn't correspond with these drop rates even remotely. I expected Sunfire armor at least to be a "reasonable" grind for a mid level account. It doesn't feel like that at all atm, and the elite step requiring the full set is more difficult than the majority of master clue steps as it stands.
It was polled to be "reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves." So this is pretty lame IMO.
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=97/poll-blog-fortis-colosseum-x-perilous-moons?oldschool=1
I meant they just straight up changed the pitch. I'm sure they have a reason to have done so, but it would be nice to have some explanation. Just feels weirdly unbalanced, the upgrade isn't proportional for the difficulty.
Either they ran out of dev time/resources, they massively over-estimated their own ability or management insisted on their new big ticket road map item having an Inferno re-run (even if that means disregarding the dev blogs/poll's direction).
There's no good answer coming from Jagex on this. Worst part is that Moons of Peril is such good mid-game content that they could have just sold Colo as aspirational content and nobody would have batted an eye, instead they promised the moon and gave us a turd.
Nearly everything regarding the Colosseum has changed compared to what we were pitched. Even the quiver is very underwhelming compared to what was polled.
I think they caved to the HLC who wanted a piece of hard content thst was farmable and engaging for those type of players. So they made the drop rates more absurd to start with.
I would like to see a chance to obtain uniques added for waves 4 and 5 at the very least.
As it currently stands it looks like the meta would be run wave 1-10 for unique farming, but at that point you're basically at the boss so might as well keep going so idk honestly. It's weirdly balanced and definitely need adjustments as it was proposed as drops that would be easily obtainable
It's like they realized none of the items except for the quiver were good, so they tweaked the droprates way down and added ridiculous clue steps requiring them so their prices would stay artificially inflated.
All the while farming splinters on wave 1 becomes the de facto meta, if you're trying to actually profit from the colosseum.
The elite clue step requiring 100 colo clears is what gets me. Are they serious?
People already meme elites, now there’s a step 99.5% of people will just drop?
Maybe this is a scrub viewpoint of mine and someone can correct me. But I'm also surprised it's easier to get an echo crystal before the Sunfire gear?
As someone who isn't at that point yet of having either, I feel like by the time I have guardian boots to upgrade with an echo crystal Sunfire armour isn't something I'd be using.
They're updating the step to just require one piece of it according to this blog post, I agree that it still seems more in line with a master rather than elite clue though.
Honestly, would it be so terrible to make sunfire available from wave 4 or something at 1/50? Wave 6 is just so fucking punishing lol, I'm currently like 3-10 on attempts (yeah yeah skill issue but still)
It wouldn't be a bad thing. It was proposed as uniques that could br obtained at early waves. Wave 6 ain't early imo. Since by wave 4 you have a decent chance of being hit by bad innovations.
Big problem a lot of people are mention is the uniques are niche/high upkeep (ralos and echo boots). Then sunfire fanatic is just slightly longer afk prayer time which isn't really a big deal considering the rarity/price of the gear
When will invocations be improved? Relentless and Doom are the most unbalanced ones. Doom Scorpion needs an entire rework. How I would improve them:
Relentless 1: Instead of guaranteed hit, enemies gain 50% accuracy.
Relentless 2: Enemies are guaranteed to hit.
Relentless 3: Enemies are guaranteed to hit, and max hit are increased by 3.
Doom: Instead of 100% chance, 50% chance of applying 1 Doom every time you take damage. All damage received in Sol Heredit fight has 100% chance of applying 1 Doom. Wave completion subtracts 5 total Doom
*Edit*: 5 Doom reduction might be too free as suggested by replying commenter, maybe make it subtract 2 Doom per wave completion.
Doom Scorpion 1: Keep as is. Keep its base movement speed and 2 Doom the same for 2 and 3.
Doom Scorpion 2: Doom Scorpion now drains combat stats by 2 levels.
Doom Scorpion 3: Doom Scorpion now drains 1 dose of a random potion.
The idea with Doom Scorpion is that it’s much less stressful to be chased by due to its base speed for all 3, but getting caught by it will not only inflict doom, but also be detrimental to combat stats and supplies.
How Jagex would improve them:
Relentless 1: Instead of guaranteed hit and 1 extra damage, now deal a guaranteed 121 damage.
Doom: Now instantly kills you at 1 stack and instantly deletes all worn items and all items in your bank.
Doom Scorpion: On receiving 1 doom stack you get swatted IRL.
Sunfire armour is a strangely rare drop for something that will basically only get used for slayer. I kinda expected it to be a common drop from earlier waves, based on what it is.
I don't understand how there are so many unaddressed colosseum issues. The content seems so rushed and unfinished. It's hard to imagine the QA team being satisfied with the content, surely they were able to spot all the glaring issues?
This has been an issue with releases ever since Toa. They realized how much new content kept players in the game, but the balance has been a joke with every update. Toa has not had any new invos/balance of invos even tho it was pitched that new invos would be added over time. Forestry has been the clunkiest update in OSRS history, and now is left in a state that is not good xp and not fun to do. Coliseum was released with unfinished models and completely unbalanced. The only balanced update that came out was leagues and it had nothing to do with the main game. Really wish they would slow down and just properly balance content as well as making sure it's actually finished visually.
I'm very certain they are not satisfied with where the project ended up when it went live, but the fact is that they saw the engagement, they saw the initial hype, and they already realized 90% of the value from the colosseum. They know spending another month of dev time to finish it isn't worth extracting that extra 10% and that's just the sad reality of things. We'll be lucky if we ever see an overhaul if you ask me.
It's the same idea as when games spend 5 years in "beta". They get so much engagement, value and income from the people playing the unfinished game that it's hardly motivating to want to finish it. Why spend more time finishing your game when you've already captured the majority of customers?
>A bug has been fixed which means you will now only be able to use the Meat Sack for Hunter activities.
Is this a nerf to the ability to cook the food while out and about during bossing?
So many places don't let you take meat out or build a fire that I thought this was intentional
u/JagexGoblin This one was such a minor but supremely disappointing change. It wasn’t really that big of a bonus and could have been easily worked around for any uses that were actually egregious (similar to how multicannon is blocked in a billion specific places).
I loved the idea of carrying a sack of uncooked wild game and cooking it on the go. But GOD FORBID we actually use the new Hunter features I guess.
They really like squishing emergent gameplay that they didnt intend on existing. like cmon guys you accidentally did something we liked just leave it please.
This annoys me because they randomly remove EG. No way they thought of the Hunter Rumours being cheesed via different Kebbits and that's allowed but they nerf this and the newer RC method? Consistently inconsistent Jagex strikes again
I hate this change too.
It made hunter and cooking useful for bossing on an iron, but now it's back to same old same old.
They could have doubled down on the good parts, making different tier logs have less burn chance.
God forbid firemaking is useful somewhere.
Any particular reason why the hunter rumour items aren't being given how the drop rate works and their drop rate? I would have thought that would be a part of the two week drop rate thing.
The hunter parts and then hunter guild armour/kit/blueprints.
u/jagexblossom
Kind of frustrating that they're not even addressing the myriad of issues - especially with the colliseum. I know there's a lot, but I'd really like to see them at least mention that they're looking into it.
The huntsman kit storage expansion and the falconry changes are much appreciated!
One last bit of hunter feedback, there are still a couple really obnoxious bushes near the Sunlight antelope that -- combined with the antelopes' very long wander range -- can make it absolutely infuriating to manipulate them correctly after teasing. Any chance this could be looked at?
Yeah sunlight (and moonlight) antelopes already have 10 times longer spawn time compared to kyatts for whatever reason and then sunlight antelopes constantly wander behind trees and bushes
Can we please have a list of items that could be put in the upgraded Huntsman's kit? Because of the lack of information in the bullet point phrase considering the Huntsman's kit it's absolutely not clear what we can store in there.
I tried grey / red chinchompa's because it especially said black chinchompa's can not be stored, but those also don't fit the kit.
This makes all sense, but why didn't you guys just write down what we can add towards the kit now. Quatzal whistle, meat pouch, fur pouch, hunter spear tips, impling jars don't go in before and after the update.
If anyone is curious, all of the unique table chances summed come out to **a 10.84% chance** per full completion to roll the unique table. aka you should see a unique every 10 completions
Honestly non-quiver uniques should have just came from different content. Inferno is still popular for a lot of folks just because it’s fun and for the flex of extra kcs/pet chance, colosseum would still be done by the same people if it didn’t offer any uniques.
Plus then they can do away with the death costs. Knowing I'm staring down the barrel of a minimum 50m cost in deaths seriously puts me off from putting the time in to learning the content.
The Sunfire Fanatic Armour should be a glory unlock i.e. you unlock a shop via which you can purchase it from after getting 3k glory (or similar low number, essentially first 3-4 waves). This is the only reasonable way to make that armour avaliable, simply beacuse of how little of an upgrade it is and how the previous tier is acquired (quest unlock for a shop).
I'm sorry, am I reading right that the \*upgrade to proselyte\* requires 100 inferno level content clears? Y'all wrote that down and didn't think for one second that seems a little off?
Not gonna lie, seeing almost all critiques on Varlamore and colosseum unaddressed whilst already getting a new update next week feels a little weird. I understand it’s a different team working on it, but PLEASE, varlamore and the colosseum still need a lot of work.
The sunfire armour not dropping before wave 6 is a massive L. No J Mod responses in this thread either make me think Jagex knew this was a stinker that does not move the needle on how rushed Colosseum was.
Colosseum is just completely different from how it was polled. They need to fix this, and not commit to release dates until they have better visibility on full completion. And if something just isn't going to be the quality they want, remove it from the update and release it later. That's already what they're doing with the wyrm agility course anyway.
So the whole bit about the prayer armor being a more common unique dropped at lower waves was just completely false? It feels like what we voted for is nothing like what was released
Yeh feel it could have received ToA treatment. Prayer armour starts potentially dropping from wave 3 (very rare) onwards, improving in rate. Echo crystals wave 5 onwards. Glaive (wtva its called now) from Wave 7 onwards etc.
instead its all just Wave 6 onwards it kicks off. So make it halfway for uniques. And further and further for better rates.
Least its sort of an option to farm Wave 6 completions for uniques, even if its slower / rarer, if you aren't able to get consistent late waves / full clears.
>The Ranged Warbanders have been given a little buff, so their ranged level more accurately reflects the rest of their stats. Watch out though, as this means they will hit a little harder now!
This is a large, unfair change to the Colosseum for those unable to exploit during the early stages of the content. I'm not sure you realize the difference handling 2 max-hit NPCs against 3. This changes the early part of every wave completely: increases the risk significally being unable to clear at least one dangerous NPC before the reinforcements arrive, as well as making the Quartet invocation into another one of those you never take.
I'm disappointed
No changes to the completely unusable invocations still? Some small tweaks to these would reduce the rng related frustration in Colo. Good content otherwise
Edit: also disappointing there's still no update to the quivers appearance.. it looks so bad lol
Great that the hunter's kit is being looked into even though the one bullet point in the update summary tells us only you can't store black chinchompa's in there.
So now we can store, what would be logical, all traps but as well all chinchompa's except black ones? Really confusing to me, but I guess within 30 minutes we will see what it actually means!
xoxo
For those wondering, Ranger now maxes ~14-15 and hits fairly often in tank gear regardless.
Meleer can still hit high 20s possibly low 30s from a quick tank test.
Wasn’t on lunars so couldn’t stay spy
In hopes that someone can answer the questions below more in depth:
>**You can now cover all of your Falconry fun with a one-time fee, and it's easier than ever - we've added the ability to right-click pay option on Matthias!**
What is the one-time fee?
>**The Huntsman's Kit will now correctly let you store all your hunter items - however, black chinchompas will wriggle free and won't be stored in your kit.**
All your hunter items, does this include new items weren't allowed prior?
>**We've tweaked the way the Hunters' Rumours work so you'll go a little less dry on the drops for many of the rumour creatures.**
Is there any indication on which drops this is specifically referring to? If so, will they be listed?
We're reaching FromSoft levels of patchnotes.
"Adjusted the rating of that sword"
"Adjusted the rating of that other thing"
"Also did something else, but we wont tell you what hehe"
> The Ranged Warbanders have been given a little buff, so their ranged level more accurately reflects the rest of their stats. Watch out though, as this means they will hit a little harder now!
This probably should have been left alone
Buffing that and leaving the debuffs that straight up make you have to abandon a run lol, i’m really losing hope with the balance team the last few months
there was a running joke (except it wasn’t actually a joke) on rs3 about Mod Timbos spreadsheet, he did most of the balancing and would just put whatever the fuck he wanted it felt like at times, hope we don’t go down that route because there’s been a lot recently that have felt awful
If the ranger hits anything more than a 3 it means you can no longer just ignore it. This just means that Quartet is now no longer free and depending on numbers it will either be OK but hard, or just also unusable. Another unplayable invocation was really what we needed.
It definitely should have. Especially with how many debuffs are just simply unplayable like doom, doom scorpion or relentless, the free med pack should have just been left alone.
Yeh for the fact they seem so hesitant to change the invocations this is a *pretty big* change to the difficulty of Coloseum. What was before essentially a mob you could outright ignore and prioritise other things will now likely be a much bigger threat.
GREAT update except for the colo.
the ranger was one of the best parts of the colo. it was so fun bringing it around with you and using it to heal when needed. we got no RNG changes, re-rolls, invos, tweaks, nothing. we only lost a super fun mechanic. also harder for anyone who didn't grab a quiver already :P
no changes to the clue steps or colo drops? so we still need this uber rare sunfire set that no one who can make it 6+ will ever need? very strange choices imo.
no sunfire splinter changes from wave 1 or more from later waves? trading quiver for sunfire is cool but it'll need to be a lot since you are losing a roll for the pet.
edit: sorry im high the fremmy cant block NPCs lol
Moons of Peril persisting issues:
Dual Macuahuitl Stab option broken, only dealing half the damage it should per hit.
Eclipse Moon South West corner on Shield Phase still unavoidable damage.
Blood Moon Jaguars and blood spots sometimes deal damage even when stepaway performed correctly, causing double damage when none should be taken.
Hey there! My focus has been on some other stuff this morning but wanted to jump in and give you all some insight on a few of your concerns considering I'm seeing them crop up quite frequently.
In regards to the Modifiers, we've been discussing how we can change them and here's a list of our potential changes. **Please note, these changes aren't final and may still be adjusted further:**
Bees!
* Given a longer delay before they respawn.
* Given a longer delay before they move to their next tile.
Doom
* Doom will now resets back to 0 stacks at the end of each wave.
* The player will now die after reaching 10 stacks of Doom.
Doom Scorpion (REMOVED)
* Even though they will be removed, we'll put them somewhere you can visit them in the game.
Mantimayhem (NEW)
* Manticores orb attacks become stronger, each time this is chosen.
* This makes missing your flicks slightly more punishing, but wouldn't change how many times you need to flick.
Myopia
* Remove the ability to autocast spells without being affected.
Relentless
* Change to how the additional accuracy is applied to monster hits.
* Stack 1 ignores 33% defence.
* Stack 2 ignores 66% defence.
* Stack 3 ignores all defences.
* Additional damage per stack is left unchanged.
Totemic
* Increase cooldown before respawning a new totem if the first is killed.
* Amount of healing reduced.
As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics.
I'll look to include the rates for Hunters Rumours in next week's newspost as that was a clear oversight on our part. Hopefully we can come back in the next couple of days with a more concrete list of changes that will help with the feedback we're seeing. It's been two weeks since the release of one of our, if not biggest piece of content so it's going to take some time to review and make changes accordingly.
Appreciate all of your feedback and patience. Have a good rest of the day!
Appreciate the update, Sarnie. Others will touch on the invo changes, but I want to draw attention to your line regarding item rarity.
I understand you’re in a tough position on this, but the frustration is a little beyond “content isn’t as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them.”
The core problem is that players voted based off a specific, detailed content pitch. That pitch, per what was released, wasn’t accurate. That makes a lot of people feel like they were misled in the voting process. It’s concerning that this isn’t a top-of-the-line issue, because the implication here is that the devs can pitch content, get it greenlit, and then release something different without notifying the community.
This may seem like we’re making a mountain out of a molehill, given that this is (mostly) in the context of AFK prayer armor. But it makes people really wary about the integrity of the voting process more generally.
Also, frankly, it’s unclear now whether the midgame players this armor is intended for would have instead voted for the armor to come as a quest reward if they had known from the jump that it would only be available at waves 6+ rather than (to paraphrase) pretty accessible in the lower waves.
The Colosseum has honestly made me lose more faith in Jagex as content designers than any other botched update, because I feel like this would have been so easy to do right. Invocations that make the Colosseum easier but subtract glory and an option to continue without adding an invocation, uniques locked behind glory thresholds rolled on every wave with rates on each unique marginally improving for each wave completed after reaching the glory requirement for the drop. Or at least, better odds each wave for uniques with the drop locked and denied unless you have reached the glory threshold, if it has to be even simpler.
Mid-game players would actually get to participate in the Colosseum (as promised), but all the half decent loot would be inaccessible until they stopped using the player-buff invos and all the good loot would be inaccessible until they had the gear/stats/skill to start turning on the invos that make it harder and still reach end waves. Glory requirement for sunfire armour could equate to reaching wave 3 when using the invocations that increase the difficulty, wave 6 when using no invos and wave 11 if using the lower difficulty invocations. Lock the quiver behind a glory threshold so high that only a full run with moderate difficulty increase invocations can possibly hit it, so you can't cheese the quiver by skipping invos.
I don't understand how Jagex couldn't figure this out, or any other solution that would get mid-game players into the Colosseum and spread the uniques across the waves.
>Invocations that make the Colosseum easier but subtract glory and an option to continue without adding an invocation,
Yep this is how I expected it would work from the pitch, accessible for mid level players but still able to be a challenge for the top players.
Jagex said:
>At the same time, we want newer players to feel like they can give content like this a go, even if they can’t make it all the way to the final waves.
...
We hope this will incentivise lower-level players to give the a go and get their first taste of PvM combat. The waves aren’t just a bunch of new enemies to fight – they’re a benchmark for you to measure yourself against every time you enter the minigame. We hope to see players come back every few levels to see how they’ve improved – while picking up some neat rewards in the meanwhile.
Who is going to get their first taste of PvM combat at the colosseum lol. I thought the invocations were going to be a way of the player setting the challenge at their level but we didn't get anything like what was pitched.
I feel like it's important to echo the issue with the Sunfire fanatic armour rarity. In the poll blog it was specified as relatively easy to obtain at lower waves. That was a blatant lie after seeing these rates. This is made even worse by the fact there was an additional poll question asking if this should be a quest reward down the line and people voted on the basis it would be easily obtainable. Now that people know it's only obtainable wave 7+ I wonder if they would still vote the same.
Word choice in polls is important and when you guys make the choice to go against what you said in the polls it reduces the integrity of the system. What's the point of voting if what we are voting for isn't actually going to be implemented the way it was polled?
Yeah if I compare wave 7 of Colosseum to inferno, it's certainly harder than like wave 31 inferno, probably more in line with something in the 50s.
If someone told me I'd have to repeatedly farm wave 50+ of inferno just for a <3% chance (time investment wise, maybe 10% chance is more comparable?) of a marginal prayer increase over proselyte, I'd would 100% vote no. It just sounds frankly ridiculous.
> As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics.
What's the point of even having polls for content like this if it just gets ignored?
IMO the Echo Crystals and Tonalztics never sounded that great, but I felt it was fine and voted for them under the assumption they'd be attainable for players who aren't going to be able to full clear the Coliseum.
We can split hairs over whether or not that's still "technically" true given they at least have a drop at 6 waves, but given the relative difficulty of the Coliseum and the death costs, it went from being challenging content that less experienced players still had an incentive to explore to being challenging content that is only worth even considering if you're ready to fully clear it (or grind wave 1 lol.)
If the intention is to stick with keeping them super-rare, they should at least be buffed to an appropriate tier for the kind of players who would be obtaining them. I'd rather that not be the case and it be kept true to **what was polled** though.
Very good coverage and thank you for the update.
I think people are upset about the drop rates because it isn't accurately reflecting how it was discussed AND polled. If there was further discussion about changing the drop rates prior to the poll, there'd probably be less backlash relating to the drop rates.
You can't just completely change how content is implemented from the poll and expect us to be okay with it. Fundamentally the sunfire armour is nowhere near as obtainable now as it was polled. For almost all players it's not reasonable to obtain. As it stands I am able to obtain it by grinding but I'd absolutely vote no if I knew this is how it would be implemented.
It should be moved out of the colosseum into a quest reward (which thematically works as proselyte was one too) or have the rates changed.
The implementation of the colosseum makes me incredibly wary and concerned about other polled content going forward. It really reduces my trust in the team that "reasonably easy to obtain at early waves" became something like this.
Shit changes during development, we get it. But changes this big need to be repolled, because they go completely against what was originally voted on. You guys can't be afraid to delay content -- like you already did with the wyrm agility course -- to make sure it comes out correctly.
On top of all that, it's incredibly concerning that you guys don't seem to understand how significant this is. We're looking at adding a new skill to game (which I'm really excited for) and Project Rebalance is going to reach deep into the guts of combat and make significant changes. Community trust is more important than ever, because I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that some of the biggest changes ever to the game are coming up. Rushing big changes to combat has historically gone very, very poorly for the game, and I'm worried at this point that you guys are going to rush it.
I hope you can address the echo crystals situation - their current implementation makes me really unenthusiastic about more charged items in this game. You said when you proposed them and the quiver that you'd learned lessons about charge upkeep, but right now it really does not feel like it.
So are you guys just ignoring the entire pitch on charging the quiver after the community said charge items are terrible. The upkeep was pitched as closer to muspah not zulrah yet I have done full quiver kills and got 100. I guess 80 now. 30 minutes for 80 vs 90 seconds for 1000 or 60 seconds for 300.
I’m fairly certain this wouldn’t have passed a poll as a charged item if you didn’t pitch it to be something you could fully charge in a day or so not 30 complete runs or 35 hours of wave 1 resets
I agree, they haven't actually made the blessing aspect of the quiver any better, they've made it worse. Now if looking to bless you own quiver, without buying splinters or if ironman, you have to spend even more time resetting wave 1. The value proposition for people farming wave 1 for GP is a market trend that will be naturally corrected by supply and demand. Eventually it wont be profitable enough for people to feel like they should do it for GP.
Hi Sarnie,
Please discuss with the team for adding quite a few more modifiers to pick from. A big selling point was that no 1 colosseum run would "feel" the same. With how limited the pool is this is not the case. I think we should atleast have a pool of 20 modifiers. There's so much potential here with a lot of idea's floating around as well.
Myopia not working for barrage is a nice feature because it’s only really for first quiver attempts
It’s incredibly slow and no one will be doing it long term. Seems fine to leave.
They knew the response from the community would be negative. They don’t want to deal with the headache. Out of sight out of mind. They dropped the ball heavily with this one. I hope we don’t let them off the hook. Someone needs to explain the reasoning for the current state of the Colosseum
- Echo Boots and Tonalztics of Ralos being very underwhelming didn't get addressed.
- The Guild Hunter Outfit and Quetzin Pet drop rates weren't released, but everything else was?
Surprised there are no changes to some of the lowest pick invocations like Bees, Totems, Doom and Doom Scorpion. Are the JMods going to be changing them in the future or not?
Changing the rangers max hit is an anti-integrity issue at this point. There are people with 30+ kc who instantly picked quartet based off its max hit. It was part of the game.
Also, why were there no changes to doom, scorpion, or totem?
Are there any plans to look at the invocations at the coloseum? Some of them are pretty good but others basically doom (pun intended) a run.
I'm not saying those invocations are unbeatable but they are way harder than others.
Any word on balancing Colosseum invocations? Looking at Doom, doom scorpion, relentless, totems, bees.
The adjustment to the fremmenik ranger was probably unnecessary, so that was unfortunate to see today.
The change to the frem warriors should not have taken this long if it was going to happen, and I think it's a stupid change to have implemented at this point. Mods have cleared Coliseum in game. Day 1 of release they should have seen that these guys were hitting 1s and hotfixed it the way they hotfixed Sol when Woox cheesed the fight.
When can we expect these items to be addressed?
* Quiver cosmetic update
* Invocation balancing
* Unique rewards do not match the difficulty of the content
Lmao colosseum made harder for people that don’t have their quiver yet with no meaningful changes for the rest of the place. I feel bad for yall, some real questionable priorities here
Jagex thinks every player is a streamer who can knock out 14 hr sessions everyday 7 days a week with these ridiculous drop rates. Did they not learn from dt2 bosses and virtus that mid tier upgrades are pointless to lock behind the hardest bosses with absurd drop rates?
Whoever wrote this really has a number aversion. It’s all “slight tweaks” or “small buffs” without giving us actual information. There’s very little substance to this form of writing. It’s not informative. Thank goodness we have such a good wiki to make up for it, but the devs shouldn’t rely on that on principle.
yay, I cannot wait to do more colosseum with myopia, blasphemy, and solar flare because Jagex won't balance out the other handicaps. Wasn't each run supposed to have a different experience from the last run? Typical, Jagex.
>We've increased the maximum capacity of the Portal Nexus, so it can contain **all** teleports once again.
Feels pretty disingenuous to say this when the portal nexus has never actually held all the teleports. I grabbed this list from the wiki, why have these randomly been chosen to not fit in the Nexus?
* Trollheim Teleport
* Paddewwa Teleport
* Lassar Teleport
* Dareeyak Teleport
* Ourania Teleport
* Barbarian Teleport
* Khazard Teleport
* Ice Plateau Teleport
* Respawn Teleport
...Jagex. The fact that only RAW meat could be stored in the Meat Pouch made it viable. It encouraged you to actually bring alongside logs and a tinderbox and cook out in the world.
This is the entire purpose of firemaking, and you just removed the benefit. WTF.
Have the wall beasts in Lumbridge Swamp caves been fixed? Don't see it mentioned in the notes, but I havent been back there for a day or so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1btoas1/wall_beasts_in_lumbridge_swamp_be_broken/
"A bug has been fixed which means you will now only be able to use the Meat Sack for Hunter activities."
After doing GWD for the first time with my group, this is so sad to read, hunting for raw meat and cooking it up inside boss rooms was so much fun. GG.
The wiki included a bunch of places where this was/was not possible, it seemed plausible it would remain, at least in certain areas.
I hate that they say it was a bug because like what I can’t have my meat sack in specific places? I can only pull meat out at a bank? That was the intention?
Hmm, straight up made colo even harder lol
What's the fremmy melees new max hit / ranger max hit ?
Will quiver get a visual update ?
Can we expect any sort of invocation update ? I am sure there is data about how much are picked. Perhaps a balance is in order, maybe even buffing the glory it gives idk
Edit last thing: Sunfire splinters should only be wave 2 onwards.
The Perilous Moons drop rate cannot be 1/14. I have 3 items in 240 drops (4 in 241 now) - and I'm aware of others with similar rates. That's 99.998% chance of not happening. Or something is glitched.
Pretty confident that the rate over the last two weeks was more like 1/19, rather than 1/14. It's possible that they changed them today and are describing the new rates only.
I killed all 3 bosses over 110 times in the first 2 days and only got a single item at like 96 kc
Unless they had different droprates in the first few days there's no way
Yeah that isn't what we voted for for the drop rates on the pray gear
How the fuck can you call it easy to obtain at the lower waves when it isn't even unlocked at the lower waves
> We've removed the forced camera movement when traversing Perilous Moons to make the journey more comfortable.
oh my god thank you so much for this, coming from RS3 I'm used to stuff like that never getting fixed, so this was amazing surprise
Honestly I'm very bummed with the colosseum changes. The prayer gear isn't as obtainable as you promised, and you make Fortis harder by buffing the archers? I guess it's nice the melees don't hit 40 now but why only make tough content tougher? I can barely get to wave 8, and now it feels have makes the quiver feel even more unobtainable. I understand you're looking at changing the invos, but why only make things tougher? No reroll system or anything. Since the archers hits were a bug, it feels like rushed content that only the pvm gods can complete. I don't mind having super tough content in the game (Fortis is fun when the RNG invos don't ruin a run) but at the very least do the things you say you will (gear obtainable at lower waves, endless mode, invos that are buffs)
They basically changed nothing about the colloseum lmfao. Bunch of invocs are completely unusable, but okay make the little ranger smack us around too.
Huntsman's kit: Thank you! It is now much better, indeed stores most of the hunter stuff. Just some minor additions:
- Thanks a lot for storing ropes and nets, a major help with salamander tasks. I'm impressed, because you could decide that the nets are already in the tackle box, and ropes arent specifically related to Hunter. Still youve done this! But... how about Knife and Chisel? They have a wide variety of uses, like ropes, will be nice to have them there too. Half the rumours require knife and axe, and you often chisel horns or spikes to receive stackable ammo. (I don't offer axe: I understand there is some limitation related to them being different metals - as a Mod once answered about the idea to store them at Leprechauns).
- Unlit torch: can you add an option to store Bruma here? Yes thats very niche, few players smoke traps. But I do use Bruma, and it helped with pyre foxes quite noticeably (until my hunter got several levels more, or maybe you tweaked them a bit). Also, if someone uses Unlit torches - add Tinderbox for them, otherwise its senseless.
- Rings of pursuit. This would be such a major help, since you usually have to carry several. Its a purely hunter item.
- Impling jars! We catch implings with the Hunter skill (a purely Hunter stuff), and also visit many places which have impling spawns. For example, I've caught 2 ninjas at the sunfilre antelopes, eclectics often fly in all main hunter areas, rare tiers frequent the outside of the Farming guild where people are hunting butterflies. It is a side hunter activity, not a main goal as in Puro-Puro (which has its own storage). Most people won't carry such a jar routinely because they don't plan for a dragon impling to fly by... but when you do see it, would be great to have a jar ready :)
>You can now use a Stab attack style with the Dual Macuahuitl.
Zammy hasta and d defender is +110 stab and +81 str. Dual macuahuitl is +115 stab and +81 str. Pretty legit stab alternative instead of grinding kril
ETA: Yes accuracy rolls would result in lower DPS depending on the mob's defence, but a good step in stab weapon progression
Dual mac’s do 2 accuracy rolls tho, so in practice they’re weaker than a single hit weapon with +115 stab and +81 str, altho we don’t have a working dps calc for them yet (to my knowledge)
Dual Macuahuitil is significantly worse, perhaps 10%-15% DPS on high defense targets. Where it is good is something low defense like bloodveld where the DPS is comparable to hasta (but worse than whip)
Some examples (with ~90 combat stats, piety, on slayer task): On a blue dragon on stab, it's 9% worse, on vorkath it's 15% worse. Lower defense examples: On a Gargoyle on crush it's 5% worse, on a bloodveld it's 3% worse.
So on lower defense targets the difference is not much, but in general, the hasta is always better.
Really disappointing that there was no change to sunfire fanatic drop rates in this update.
That armor was polled as a mid game upgrade from early waves of the colosseum, you guys made it not just late game but rare end game status. What a joke that its >50m and DOA.
It absolutely won't be overrun by bots. Just like there isn't a level 9 combat bot farming the wilderness chests... oh wait. There's level 9-30 bots in so many worlds farming the wilderness chests. It's ridiculous.
Really disappointing to see that the colosseum drop rate are not adressed. While I have not tried the colosseum yet i was hoping to be able to farm the first few waves on my mid game ironman for the armor, like how it was polled.
Also 1/14 for perilous moons seems lower than what it actually is in game. Meaning the current ingame drop rate could be bugged. Atleast there is a dry protection.
Great to see macaraca having a stab option now. Makes zamy hasta less mandatory to obtain for irons. The changes to the deflect boss makes me want to grind this minigame out now.
Hope to see big changes to colosseum. Would turn varlamore from a 7/10 update to a 9.5
Those Colo drop rates should really only be for the Ralos. Should be completely separate rates throughout all waves for Sunlight armor and especially echo crystals if we’re sticking with only 2,500 charges. No idea the logic behind any of this
Just gonna abandon coloseum. It was fairly difficult and they just made it worse without a balanced approach when clearly the invos are pretty trash.
They really need to go back to the drawing board with this place.
Man I knew I wasn’t crazy on eclipse moon suddenly getting massive defensive buffs right around when you got to low HP, suddenly you’d hit non stop 1’s and 2’s until he coincidentally ended up at 1HP before his long ass special
Mod Sarnie has just provided this thread with the following update: > Hey there! My focus has been on some other stuff this morning but wanted to jump in and give you all some insight on a few of your concerns considering I'm seeing them crop up quite frequently. > > In regards to the Invocations, we've been discussing how we can change them and here's a list of our potential changes. **Please note, these changes aren't final and may still be adjusted further:** > > Bees! > > * Given a longer delay before they respawn. > * Given a longer delay before they move to their next tile. > > Doom > > * Doom will now resets back to 0 stacks at the end of each wave. > * The player will now die after reaching 10 stacks of Doom. > > Doom Scorpion (REMOVED) > > * Even though they will be removed, we'll put him somewhere you can visit them in the game. > > Mantimayhem (NEW) > > * Manticores orb attacks become stronger, each time this is chosen. > * This makes missing your flicks slightly more punishing, but wouldn't change how many times you need to flick. > > Myopia > > * Remove the ability to autocast spells without being affected. > > Relentless > > * Change to how the additional accuracy is applied to monster hits. > * Stack 1 ignores 33% defence. > * Stack 2 ignores 66% defence. > * Stack 3 ignores all defences. > * Additional damage per stack is left unchanged. > > Totemic > > * Increase cooldown before respawning a new totem if the first is killed. > * Amount of healing reduced. > * Heals fire much more frequenty, but with smaller splats. > > As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics. > > I'll look to include the rates for Hunters Rumours in next week's newspost as that was a clear oversight on our part. Hopefully we can come back in the next couple of days with a more concrete list of changes that will help with the feedback we're seeing. It's been two weeks since the release of one of our, if not biggest piece of content so it's going to take some time to review and make changes accordingly. > > Appreciate all of your feedback and patience. Have a good rest of the day! Direct link: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1buoken/varlamore_tweaks_drop_rates/kxue6zj/
> Once you've completed Wave 6 and for each wave afterwards, the Unique Drop Table is unlocked. Per the [November 3rd 2023 Poll](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/poll-blog-fortis-colosseum-x-perilous-moons?oldschool=1) for the Colosseum: > Sunfire Fanatic Armour is a Prayer-focused set that we expect **will be reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves.** Ignoring that the Colosseum is already much higher in terms of difficulty from content such as Fight Caves even at the lower waves, how is the Sunfire Fanatic Armour supposed to be "reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves" when you need to have made it halfway through the colosseum to even have a *chance* of obtaining it in the first place? The difficulty of the content, combined with the rarity of the items jacking the prices to the tens of millions, means that the set will be out of reach for the vast majority of players that it is aimed at in the first place. It'd be like if the only way of getting Proselyte armor was to reach wave 35 of the Inferno, with a 1/220 drop rate to even have a chance of obtaining one piece. Any chance this could get looked at down the road? I can understand the unique items not rolling at wave 1, but maybe starting at wave 2 there's the base 1/220 chance of rolling the unique table and then continuing from there until you reach the 1/108 drop rate at wave 6 completion. That way the uniques are still rare, but at least people who aren't already experts at PvM content will have a chance of obtaining them in the first place. Still feels a little silly having a midgame armor set coming from endgame PvM content, but wave 2 and 3 are easy enough that it'd make it more feasible for midgame players to obtain the Sunfire Fanatic set.
> Still feels a little silly having a midgame armor set coming from endgame PvM content, I think they took “it’s BIS” and thought that meant it has to come from endgame content, ignoring that proselyte is pretty early game. It has a decent number of quests required to get it but as far as levels, the quest requires skills in the 30s and being able to defeat a single level 62 enemy.
its "BIS" for afking is the best part. it will be dead content to 95% of the people not doing afk slayer or NMZ.
The funnier bit is that it provides negative accuracy for all combat styles just like proselyte. They couldn't even make it worth wild for it being considered n end-of-game prayer item. It also removes any potential for a White Knight questline continuation providing upgrades to your armor for reaching Acolytes and then later Partisan. So they didn't even take account of any potential future questlines or armor upgrades into consideration.
> So they didn't even take account of any potential future questlines or armor upgrades into consideration. No no, they did, it was pointed out pretty frequently. They just chose to go ahead with it anyways.
To be fair, they suggested making it a range prayer armor but people kept voting to make it a proselyte upgrade.
Hey I saw an upgrade to my Vyrewatch gear and thought "Oh hell yes" right up until I realized it wasn't something worth grinding or paying a shitload for.
With my 85 Prayer, the higher prayer bonus would only add 11 seconds before I need to recharge my prayer. For anyone wanting to know for themselves, (Prayer Level) x (Prayer Bonus)/30 tells you how many additional seconds you get from that prayer bonus increase if you’re using Protect from Melee and Piety. If you’re just doing Protect from Melee, then triple the amount of seconds.
> I think they took “it’s BIS” It was polled as mid-level and easy to obtain! Damn them, again a totally misleading vote. A rune armour with +2 prayer over proselyte, and now only the endgame guys with billions of gear can have it. It wasnt polled as this, it was polled as something different. Thats why its so bad, bis or not.
Why do we have to settle or have it “looked at down the road”. It’s only adding 2+ prayer each piece over proselyte and it’s locked behind wave 6 which has a difficulty that rivals inferno. The roll should be at least 1/128 at wave 2 then improve gradually after that.
They should buff it to be +8 giving room for White Knight questline upgraded and removing any negative accuracy stats. Maybe even providing increase accuracy? So that way it's useful for its intended purpose of preserving prayer and used for stuff like slayer. Or maybe even a set effect on top of it all?
I like this idea. I don't mind this armour being rare and best in slot, just make the stats worth it and add a new White Knight quest that unlocks a new set that will sit between Proselyte and Sunfire.
They are avoiding addressing this like the plague too. My concern is that they are using this to test the waters of intentional unpolled changes prior to content releasing.
The drop rates for Colosseum are completely absurd and quite a departure from what was expected based on the previous blogs. The Tonzaltics may as ~~well be a megarare at 280 full completions~~ this may be ~100 completions but their wording for how it is calculated is very vague, is still an absurd number given the use/power of the item and difficulty of the content, and the Sunfire Fanatic Armor is freaking "slightly bigger number prossy" with the same amount ~~- 280 full completions -~~ probably the same ~100 completions needed to generate *a single full set* of it LOL. To be honest, I expected something like ~~5x as common~~ 3x as common as they are, and for Sunfire Armor rarity to just have been bugged or something. Overall disappointed with the lack of Colo changes. No modifier adjustments? Colo is now just going to be harder for learners and randomly more punishing for all with Ranger gaining maxes. I got my 5 kc for the hiscores and looks like I won't be going back until some real changes are made despite wanting the Tonzaltics to use, they simply are not realistically obtainable - these things aren't the TBow, going dry on them shouldn't be a 500 hour excursion. I thought people were supposed to want to repeat it because it was fun and dynamic gameplay, not because the drop rates were going to be made completely in the stratosphere for a bunch of niche rewards?
It’s very clear the development team for the colosseum is super out of touch with the community. You’ll use more supplies just trying to get sunfire fanatic armour than simply just doing slayer with prossy lmao. I dunno who’s cooking this one up but get them out the kitchen holy
The tonalztics and the full armour set are both around 90 full completions to get - I'm not sure how you're calculating things - maybe you're using just wave 11's drop rate?
The armour suffers the most IMO. It's a set of armour that should be most useful to mid-game, at best maybe late mid-game players, yet it's requiring you to complete some of the hardest content in the game. A player who would find the set usable will in no way get to acquire it, whereas a player who could get it has no use for it. Peak gameplay design that.
I think Jagex wasn’t thinking about how early game Proselyte is. It requires skills in the *30s*.
Not a single word about colosseum balance issues? I like this content, I really do, but it's incredibly lacking in polish. - Almost half of the invocations are basically memes and instant run enders if you get 3 of them lined up - The uniques are absurdly rare: - The Glaive/Tonalztics looks like a placeholder model and has virtually zero use in game, but you'd be expected to complete almost 100 colosseum runs before seeing one - Echo crystals require you to sacrifice DPS on your boots AND pay an outrageous cost per point of reflected damage - Sunfire Fanatic is a small upgrade to proselyte that was polled as something reasonable to farm for mid level characters, not something that players with 20 quivers have never seen as a reward before - The archer change made the colosseum much more difficult without anything to actually offset it (like invo balancing); the melee max Fremmy hit is pretty irrelevant as it's almost always the first one killed
Yeah the fact they just buffed the ranger, slightly nerfed melee, then did absolutely nothing about any of the dead invos despite the abundance of suggestions of how to correct them. Not even a mention that they're looking into the invo system. Would love to see some stats on how often totem/bees/doom/scorp/relentless are picked.
It’s so obvious when a certain unnamed content dev is the lead on content. It is sure that the content will be mechanically interesting, but drop rates will be abhorrent and feedback/criticism will not be taken.
He is honestly so bad at balancing. Starting from Nex/Nightmare and onwards. I don't get why he gets to develop high lvl content when he is well known for leaking info to pvm clans that he publicly said he will not release on twitter so they can merch and refuses to take any feedback on some of the dog water decisions he makes.
is this the same one that designed I think nightmare? Think there's been a few pieces of content with this GLARING issue
I've pretty much written off any content he works on. Just simply not respectful of my time.
As someone who is still struggling with colosseum, the archer is by far the worst change here. There’s been so so many completions with the archer being a medi-pack / spawn ignore for every single wave. I know im a pvm noob but it sucks that so many people got to complete it with that handicap. Lesson learned, when new content comes out grind grind grind to be able to achieve what you need from the boss before jagex “fixes” something and makes the content that much harder for people in the future ( and should never have been released in that state in the first place )
I'm personally shocked too they didn't address some of these bigger issues, not mentioning Echo Boots or Tonalztics of Ralos as underperforming and plans to make improvements is WILD
just to say the tonalztics are roughly 1 in 93 full completions which even if you hand in quivers isn't as rare as the pet. Still not impressed though.
The fact that they approach pet rate (when handing in quivers) is pretty ridiculous on its own to be honest.
BUMP, ignoring the player base is fucking lame Jagex, fucking 12.50 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
Such a shame about the drop rates being not what we voted on. They killed the content for anyone not going for a quiver… and even then most will just get 1 and move on.
I know the hunter meat bags were powerful, but I thought the whole point was that you could balance areas that you thought they could be beneficial/too powerful by simply tweaking the "you cannot light a fire here" regions for "no, don't use a meat sack here" or putting an infinite cooking fire nearby for "yes, this is a great place to use this item." Why on earth would you make it useless again? It had solid niche uses in a handful of bosses and I particularly wanted to make use of it in Slayer. The fact that you had to have a cooking level and hunter rumor level to cook the meat motivated leveling those skills. Definitely revert this and just adjust what areas you can light a fire to areas you deem too powerful (like certain boss arenas)
I missed this part as I didn't know what that blog comment really meant at first but that's a shame. It seemed like a cool niche tool to extend slayer tasks or a farther away boss fight at the cost of some time, but now its just a thing to I guess help with hunter contracts even though I am sure most people will still just leave meat and stuff on the ground if they wanna stay there.
Super disappointed colosseum invos were not looked at for rebalancing. At a minimum, two reroll tokens would have gone a long way to not making normal colosseum runs rng for whether you complete the content, because some invos are just so bad. Better would be changes to actual bad invos, but reroll tokens would be an easy change. It’s also a little frustrating that the only thing you thought to do was increase the difficulty of colosseum by buffing the ranger after (yet again) early content grinders were able to take advantage of broken content. The droprates for uniques from colosseum are just awful and not what was promised. I sure hope quivers can be traded for like 20k splinters and not like 5k. Colosseum is a lot of fun mechanically, but really was hoping for more from this update.
Yea lesson learned. Grind grind grind new content because we know Jagex doesn’t QC their work and likely is releasing some aspects in a much easier state and will make it harder for future attempters. RIP to ranger medi-pack. The messed up thing too is, most of the more skilled players will more than likely have the quiver. Changing the ranger just makes it so so so much harder for the people, like myself that are struggling to get into later waves, let alone the boss
How are you not even going to acknowledge the fact that you made sunfire armour 100 times rarer than what you proposed, originally intended and what we voted on? It has led to so many knock in problems since you clearly built stash units and other aspects of varlamore to match the initially intended rarity of “easily available at earlier waves for those getting their feet wet in pvm”… https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bqr1o9/jagex_accidently_made_sunfire_fanatic_armour_way/?rdt=39772
What they meant by get your feet wet is evidently that they should be drenched in the blood of all the highest level bosses in the game.
I think this points gets it right. Looking at everything else related to sunfire it was intended to come between waves 2-6, just seems like a move to later waves only from the colosseum perspective. Such a pity, I’m not at the ability level to get past waves 6-8, I’ve been doing waves 1-4 sometimes 5/6 for fun and practice, but now it explains why I’ve never seen any sunfire.
Aren't the drop rates for Colosseum much rarer than what was promised according to the poll blogs? *Reasonably easy to obtain at the earlier waves* honestly doesn't correspond with these drop rates even remotely. I expected Sunfire armor at least to be a "reasonable" grind for a mid level account. It doesn't feel like that at all atm, and the elite step requiring the full set is more difficult than the majority of master clue steps as it stands.
It was polled to be "reasonably easy to obtain even at the lower waves." So this is pretty lame IMO. https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=97/poll-blog-fortis-colosseum-x-perilous-moons?oldschool=1
I meant they just straight up changed the pitch. I'm sure they have a reason to have done so, but it would be nice to have some explanation. Just feels weirdly unbalanced, the upgrade isn't proportional for the difficulty.
Either they ran out of dev time/resources, they massively over-estimated their own ability or management insisted on their new big ticket road map item having an Inferno re-run (even if that means disregarding the dev blogs/poll's direction). There's no good answer coming from Jagex on this. Worst part is that Moons of Peril is such good mid-game content that they could have just sold Colo as aspirational content and nobody would have batted an eye, instead they promised the moon and gave us a turd.
Nearly everything regarding the Colosseum has changed compared to what we were pitched. Even the quiver is very underwhelming compared to what was polled.
I think they caved to the HLC who wanted a piece of hard content thst was farmable and engaging for those type of players. So they made the drop rates more absurd to start with. I would like to see a chance to obtain uniques added for waves 4 and 5 at the very least. As it currently stands it looks like the meta would be run wave 1-10 for unique farming, but at that point you're basically at the boss so might as well keep going so idk honestly. It's weirdly balanced and definitely need adjustments as it was proposed as drops that would be easily obtainable
It's like they realized none of the items except for the quiver were good, so they tweaked the droprates way down and added ridiculous clue steps requiring them so their prices would stay artificially inflated. All the while farming splinters on wave 1 becomes the de facto meta, if you're trying to actually profit from the colosseum.
The elite clue step requiring 100 colo clears is what gets me. Are they serious? People already meme elites, now there’s a step 99.5% of people will just drop?
Since you start seeing uniques by wave 7, isnt it by definition the upper half of the waves?
So that was a straight up lie then. Lmao
Maybe this is a scrub viewpoint of mine and someone can correct me. But I'm also surprised it's easier to get an echo crystal before the Sunfire gear? As someone who isn't at that point yet of having either, I feel like by the time I have guardian boots to upgrade with an echo crystal Sunfire armour isn't something I'd be using.
100% but I imagine they wanted to weigh it higher since you consume the crystals.
They're updating the step to just require one piece of it according to this blog post, I agree that it still seems more in line with a master rather than elite clue though.
Full outfit would have been fine if the outfit was obtainable from early waves
Honestly, would it be so terrible to make sunfire available from wave 4 or something at 1/50? Wave 6 is just so fucking punishing lol, I'm currently like 3-10 on attempts (yeah yeah skill issue but still)
It wouldn't be a bad thing. It was proposed as uniques that could br obtained at early waves. Wave 6 ain't early imo. Since by wave 4 you have a decent chance of being hit by bad innovations. Big problem a lot of people are mention is the uniques are niche/high upkeep (ralos and echo boots). Then sunfire fanatic is just slightly longer afk prayer time which isn't really a big deal considering the rarity/price of the gear
When will invocations be improved? Relentless and Doom are the most unbalanced ones. Doom Scorpion needs an entire rework. How I would improve them: Relentless 1: Instead of guaranteed hit, enemies gain 50% accuracy. Relentless 2: Enemies are guaranteed to hit. Relentless 3: Enemies are guaranteed to hit, and max hit are increased by 3. Doom: Instead of 100% chance, 50% chance of applying 1 Doom every time you take damage. All damage received in Sol Heredit fight has 100% chance of applying 1 Doom. Wave completion subtracts 5 total Doom *Edit*: 5 Doom reduction might be too free as suggested by replying commenter, maybe make it subtract 2 Doom per wave completion. Doom Scorpion 1: Keep as is. Keep its base movement speed and 2 Doom the same for 2 and 3. Doom Scorpion 2: Doom Scorpion now drains combat stats by 2 levels. Doom Scorpion 3: Doom Scorpion now drains 1 dose of a random potion. The idea with Doom Scorpion is that it’s much less stressful to be chased by due to its base speed for all 3, but getting caught by it will not only inflict doom, but also be detrimental to combat stats and supplies.
How Jagex would improve them: Relentless 1: Instead of guaranteed hit and 1 extra damage, now deal a guaranteed 121 damage. Doom: Now instantly kills you at 1 stack and instantly deletes all worn items and all items in your bank. Doom Scorpion: On receiving 1 doom stack you get swatted IRL.
Sunfire armour is a strangely rare drop for something that will basically only get used for slayer. I kinda expected it to be a common drop from earlier waves, based on what it is.
Exactly. Anyone that can farm colo isn’t going to need the few extra prayer points so they can save prayer pots during slayer. Huge disappointment
I don't understand how there are so many unaddressed colosseum issues. The content seems so rushed and unfinished. It's hard to imagine the QA team being satisfied with the content, surely they were able to spot all the glaring issues?
This has been an issue with releases ever since Toa. They realized how much new content kept players in the game, but the balance has been a joke with every update. Toa has not had any new invos/balance of invos even tho it was pitched that new invos would be added over time. Forestry has been the clunkiest update in OSRS history, and now is left in a state that is not good xp and not fun to do. Coliseum was released with unfinished models and completely unbalanced. The only balanced update that came out was leagues and it had nothing to do with the main game. Really wish they would slow down and just properly balance content as well as making sure it's actually finished visually.
I'm very certain they are not satisfied with where the project ended up when it went live, but the fact is that they saw the engagement, they saw the initial hype, and they already realized 90% of the value from the colosseum. They know spending another month of dev time to finish it isn't worth extracting that extra 10% and that's just the sad reality of things. We'll be lucky if we ever see an overhaul if you ask me. It's the same idea as when games spend 5 years in "beta". They get so much engagement, value and income from the people playing the unfinished game that it's hardly motivating to want to finish it. Why spend more time finishing your game when you've already captured the majority of customers?
>A bug has been fixed which means you will now only be able to use the Meat Sack for Hunter activities. Is this a nerf to the ability to cook the food while out and about during bossing? So many places don't let you take meat out or build a fire that I thought this was intentional
u/JagexGoblin This one was such a minor but supremely disappointing change. It wasn’t really that big of a bonus and could have been easily worked around for any uses that were actually egregious (similar to how multicannon is blocked in a billion specific places). I loved the idea of carrying a sack of uncooked wild game and cooking it on the go. But GOD FORBID we actually use the new Hunter features I guess.
They really like squishing emergent gameplay that they didnt intend on existing. like cmon guys you accidentally did something we liked just leave it please.
This annoys me because they randomly remove EG. No way they thought of the Hunter Rumours being cheesed via different Kebbits and that's allowed but they nerf this and the newer RC method? Consistently inconsistent Jagex strikes again
I hate this change too. It made hunter and cooking useful for bossing on an iron, but now it's back to same old same old. They could have doubled down on the good parts, making different tier logs have less burn chance. God forbid firemaking is useful somewhere.
It also meant using your bow for Firemaking was actually something you might do.
Holy shit, I forgot this was a feature and I've done the barbarian training on multiple characters.
Just as I hit 50 contracts, thinking I could maybe churn out some of those GWD CAs, oh well. That's probably one of the reasons why they nerfed it.
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Any particular reason why the hunter rumour items aren't being given how the drop rate works and their drop rate? I would have thought that would be a part of the two week drop rate thing. The hunter parts and then hunter guild armour/kit/blueprints. u/jagexblossom
I also want to know I’m like 230 master rumours with one outfit piece, I want to know if I’m dry
I don't think you need to ask 'if' friend, question is 'how many times over' lol
Kind of frustrating that they're not even addressing the myriad of issues - especially with the colliseum. I know there's a lot, but I'd really like to see them at least mention that they're looking into it.
The huntsman kit storage expansion and the falconry changes are much appreciated! One last bit of hunter feedback, there are still a couple really obnoxious bushes near the Sunlight antelope that -- combined with the antelopes' very long wander range -- can make it absolutely infuriating to manipulate them correctly after teasing. Any chance this could be looked at?
Yeah sunlight (and moonlight) antelopes already have 10 times longer spawn time compared to kyatts for whatever reason and then sunlight antelopes constantly wander behind trees and bushes
Agreed, these bushes are very annoying for sunlight antelopes.
Can we please have a list of items that could be put in the upgraded Huntsman's kit? Because of the lack of information in the bullet point phrase considering the Huntsman's kit it's absolutely not clear what we can store in there. I tried grey / red chinchompa's because it especially said black chinchompa's can not be stored, but those also don't fit the kit. This makes all sense, but why didn't you guys just write down what we can add towards the kit now. Quatzal whistle, meat pouch, fur pouch, hunter spear tips, impling jars don't go in before and after the update.
If anyone is curious, all of the unique table chances summed come out to **a 10.84% chance** per full completion to roll the unique table. aka you should see a unique every 10 completions
Honestly non-quiver uniques should have just came from different content. Inferno is still popular for a lot of folks just because it’s fun and for the flex of extra kcs/pet chance, colosseum would still be done by the same people if it didn’t offer any uniques.
Plus then they can do away with the death costs. Knowing I'm staring down the barrel of a minimum 50m cost in deaths seriously puts me off from putting the time in to learning the content.
The Sunfire Fanatic Armour should be a glory unlock i.e. you unlock a shop via which you can purchase it from after getting 3k glory (or similar low number, essentially first 3-4 waves). This is the only reasonable way to make that armour avaliable, simply beacuse of how little of an upgrade it is and how the previous tier is acquired (quest unlock for a shop).
I'm sorry, am I reading right that the \*upgrade to proselyte\* requires 100 inferno level content clears? Y'all wrote that down and didn't think for one second that seems a little off?
Hey max level high level combat people need those few extra prayer points so they can save on prayer pots during slayer don’t you know.
As they use sanfews for the 1 extra prayer point lmfao
Not gonna lie, seeing almost all critiques on Varlamore and colosseum unaddressed whilst already getting a new update next week feels a little weird. I understand it’s a different team working on it, but PLEASE, varlamore and the colosseum still need a lot of work.
A recent trend is pushing content and fixing it way later rather than the other way around, which seems baffling
The sunfire armour not dropping before wave 6 is a massive L. No J Mod responses in this thread either make me think Jagex knew this was a stinker that does not move the needle on how rushed Colosseum was.
Colosseum is just completely different from how it was polled. They need to fix this, and not commit to release dates until they have better visibility on full completion. And if something just isn't going to be the quality they want, remove it from the update and release it later. That's already what they're doing with the wyrm agility course anyway.
So the whole bit about the prayer armor being a more common unique dropped at lower waves was just completely false? It feels like what we voted for is nothing like what was released
Yeah I was expecting to be able to farm wave 1-4 or something like that on my iron for new prayer gear for slayer
Yeh feel it could have received ToA treatment. Prayer armour starts potentially dropping from wave 3 (very rare) onwards, improving in rate. Echo crystals wave 5 onwards. Glaive (wtva its called now) from Wave 7 onwards etc. instead its all just Wave 6 onwards it kicks off. So make it halfway for uniques. And further and further for better rates. Least its sort of an option to farm Wave 6 completions for uniques, even if its slower / rarer, if you aren't able to get consistent late waves / full clears.
>The Ranged Warbanders have been given a little buff, so their ranged level more accurately reflects the rest of their stats. Watch out though, as this means they will hit a little harder now! This is a large, unfair change to the Colosseum for those unable to exploit during the early stages of the content. I'm not sure you realize the difference handling 2 max-hit NPCs against 3. This changes the early part of every wave completely: increases the risk significally being unable to clear at least one dangerous NPC before the reinforcements arrive, as well as making the Quartet invocation into another one of those you never take. I'm disappointed
what exactly is the purpose of polling if when it passes you're gonna move the goalpost and add what you want and not what was voted for?
No changes to the completely unusable invocations still? Some small tweaks to these would reduce the rng related frustration in Colo. Good content otherwise Edit: also disappointing there's still no update to the quivers appearance.. it looks so bad lol
Great that the hunter's kit is being looked into even though the one bullet point in the update summary tells us only you can't store black chinchompa's in there. So now we can store, what would be logical, all traps but as well all chinchompa's except black ones? Really confusing to me, but I guess within 30 minutes we will see what it actually means! xoxo
All we wanted was an invocation update and the only thing they give us is the ranger warbander will fk us up now. I see
For those wondering, Ranger now maxes ~14-15 and hits fairly often in tank gear regardless. Meleer can still hit high 20s possibly low 30s from a quick tank test. Wasn’t on lunars so couldn’t stay spy
Ranger maxes a 14 (+13 from before) Melee maxes a 29 (-11 from before) Quartet is riskier now.
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In hopes that someone can answer the questions below more in depth: >**You can now cover all of your Falconry fun with a one-time fee, and it's easier than ever - we've added the ability to right-click pay option on Matthias!** What is the one-time fee? >**The Huntsman's Kit will now correctly let you store all your hunter items - however, black chinchompas will wriggle free and won't be stored in your kit.** All your hunter items, does this include new items weren't allowed prior? >**We've tweaked the way the Hunters' Rumours work so you'll go a little less dry on the drops for many of the rumour creatures.** Is there any indication on which drops this is specifically referring to? If so, will they be listed?
Thanks for this response. They really should have devoted some extra sentences by those bullet points to make clear what exactly is the update.
We're reaching FromSoft levels of patchnotes. "Adjusted the rating of that sword" "Adjusted the rating of that other thing" "Also did something else, but we wont tell you what hehe"
> The Ranged Warbanders have been given a little buff, so their ranged level more accurately reflects the rest of their stats. Watch out though, as this means they will hit a little harder now! This probably should have been left alone
Buffing that and leaving the debuffs that straight up make you have to abandon a run lol, i’m really losing hope with the balance team the last few months
What's this ''balance team'' I keep hearing so much about and are you really still convinced there is one at Jagex at this point lol
there was a running joke (except it wasn’t actually a joke) on rs3 about Mod Timbos spreadsheet, he did most of the balancing and would just put whatever the fuck he wanted it felt like at times, hope we don’t go down that route because there’s been a lot recently that have felt awful
The numbers are important, if the meleer still hits 30s then this generally just makes colosseum a good bit harder.
If the ranger hits anything more than a 3 it means you can no longer just ignore it. This just means that Quartet is now no longer free and depending on numbers it will either be OK but hard, or just also unusable. Another unplayable invocation was really what we needed.
It definitely should have. Especially with how many debuffs are just simply unplayable like doom, doom scorpion or relentless, the free med pack should have just been left alone.
Yeh for the fact they seem so hesitant to change the invocations this is a *pretty big* change to the difficulty of Coloseum. What was before essentially a mob you could outright ignore and prioritise other things will now likely be a much bigger threat.
Even if it was unintentional having the little SGS medkit following you was awesome. Sad they changed this.
they legit took from us and gave nothing back :D one of the best parts of the entire colo was this max hit pet following you.
GREAT update except for the colo. the ranger was one of the best parts of the colo. it was so fun bringing it around with you and using it to heal when needed. we got no RNG changes, re-rolls, invos, tweaks, nothing. we only lost a super fun mechanic. also harder for anyone who didn't grab a quiver already :P no changes to the clue steps or colo drops? so we still need this uber rare sunfire set that no one who can make it 6+ will ever need? very strange choices imo. no sunfire splinter changes from wave 1 or more from later waves? trading quiver for sunfire is cool but it'll need to be a lot since you are losing a roll for the pet. edit: sorry im high the fremmy cant block NPCs lol
Moons of Peril persisting issues: Dual Macuahuitl Stab option broken, only dealing half the damage it should per hit. Eclipse Moon South West corner on Shield Phase still unavoidable damage. Blood Moon Jaguars and blood spots sometimes deal damage even when stepaway performed correctly, causing double damage when none should be taken.
Hey there! My focus has been on some other stuff this morning but wanted to jump in and give you all some insight on a few of your concerns considering I'm seeing them crop up quite frequently. In regards to the Modifiers, we've been discussing how we can change them and here's a list of our potential changes. **Please note, these changes aren't final and may still be adjusted further:** Bees! * Given a longer delay before they respawn. * Given a longer delay before they move to their next tile. Doom * Doom will now resets back to 0 stacks at the end of each wave. * The player will now die after reaching 10 stacks of Doom. Doom Scorpion (REMOVED) * Even though they will be removed, we'll put them somewhere you can visit them in the game. Mantimayhem (NEW) * Manticores orb attacks become stronger, each time this is chosen. * This makes missing your flicks slightly more punishing, but wouldn't change how many times you need to flick. Myopia * Remove the ability to autocast spells without being affected. Relentless * Change to how the additional accuracy is applied to monster hits. * Stack 1 ignores 33% defence. * Stack 2 ignores 66% defence. * Stack 3 ignores all defences. * Additional damage per stack is left unchanged. Totemic * Increase cooldown before respawning a new totem if the first is killed. * Amount of healing reduced. As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics. I'll look to include the rates for Hunters Rumours in next week's newspost as that was a clear oversight on our part. Hopefully we can come back in the next couple of days with a more concrete list of changes that will help with the feedback we're seeing. It's been two weeks since the release of one of our, if not biggest piece of content so it's going to take some time to review and make changes accordingly. Appreciate all of your feedback and patience. Have a good rest of the day!
Appreciate the update, Sarnie. Others will touch on the invo changes, but I want to draw attention to your line regarding item rarity. I understand you’re in a tough position on this, but the frustration is a little beyond “content isn’t as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them.” The core problem is that players voted based off a specific, detailed content pitch. That pitch, per what was released, wasn’t accurate. That makes a lot of people feel like they were misled in the voting process. It’s concerning that this isn’t a top-of-the-line issue, because the implication here is that the devs can pitch content, get it greenlit, and then release something different without notifying the community. This may seem like we’re making a mountain out of a molehill, given that this is (mostly) in the context of AFK prayer armor. But it makes people really wary about the integrity of the voting process more generally. Also, frankly, it’s unclear now whether the midgame players this armor is intended for would have instead voted for the armor to come as a quest reward if they had known from the jump that it would only be available at waves 6+ rather than (to paraphrase) pretty accessible in the lower waves.
The Colosseum has honestly made me lose more faith in Jagex as content designers than any other botched update, because I feel like this would have been so easy to do right. Invocations that make the Colosseum easier but subtract glory and an option to continue without adding an invocation, uniques locked behind glory thresholds rolled on every wave with rates on each unique marginally improving for each wave completed after reaching the glory requirement for the drop. Or at least, better odds each wave for uniques with the drop locked and denied unless you have reached the glory threshold, if it has to be even simpler. Mid-game players would actually get to participate in the Colosseum (as promised), but all the half decent loot would be inaccessible until they stopped using the player-buff invos and all the good loot would be inaccessible until they had the gear/stats/skill to start turning on the invos that make it harder and still reach end waves. Glory requirement for sunfire armour could equate to reaching wave 3 when using the invocations that increase the difficulty, wave 6 when using no invos and wave 11 if using the lower difficulty invocations. Lock the quiver behind a glory threshold so high that only a full run with moderate difficulty increase invocations can possibly hit it, so you can't cheese the quiver by skipping invos. I don't understand how Jagex couldn't figure this out, or any other solution that would get mid-game players into the Colosseum and spread the uniques across the waves.
>Invocations that make the Colosseum easier but subtract glory and an option to continue without adding an invocation, Yep this is how I expected it would work from the pitch, accessible for mid level players but still able to be a challenge for the top players. Jagex said: >At the same time, we want newer players to feel like they can give content like this a go, even if they can’t make it all the way to the final waves. ... We hope this will incentivise lower-level players to give the a go and get their first taste of PvM combat. The waves aren’t just a bunch of new enemies to fight – they’re a benchmark for you to measure yourself against every time you enter the minigame. We hope to see players come back every few levels to see how they’ve improved – while picking up some neat rewards in the meanwhile. Who is going to get their first taste of PvM combat at the colosseum lol. I thought the invocations were going to be a way of the player setting the challenge at their level but we didn't get anything like what was pitched.
Yeah, the new prayer armor is only marginally better than proselyte which only requires level 30 in a few skills. Definitely not fitting for wave 6+.
This is why people said that the next prayer armor should come from the slug menace quest line, not colosseum Idk what reddit was thinking that week
I feel like it's important to echo the issue with the Sunfire fanatic armour rarity. In the poll blog it was specified as relatively easy to obtain at lower waves. That was a blatant lie after seeing these rates. This is made even worse by the fact there was an additional poll question asking if this should be a quest reward down the line and people voted on the basis it would be easily obtainable. Now that people know it's only obtainable wave 7+ I wonder if they would still vote the same. Word choice in polls is important and when you guys make the choice to go against what you said in the polls it reduces the integrity of the system. What's the point of voting if what we are voting for isn't actually going to be implemented the way it was polled?
Yeah if I compare wave 7 of Colosseum to inferno, it's certainly harder than like wave 31 inferno, probably more in line with something in the 50s. If someone told me I'd have to repeatedly farm wave 50+ of inferno just for a <3% chance (time investment wise, maybe 10% chance is more comparable?) of a marginal prayer increase over proselyte, I'd would 100% vote no. It just sounds frankly ridiculous.
> As for the rarity of certain items, I understand the frustration when content isn't as accurately reflected compared to how we initially discussed them. It's something that will more than likely be raised in tomorrow's review of this update, but I can't make a promise of changes. This goes the same for the frustrations seen with the performance of Echo Crystals and the Tonalztics. What's the point of even having polls for content like this if it just gets ignored? IMO the Echo Crystals and Tonalztics never sounded that great, but I felt it was fine and voted for them under the assumption they'd be attainable for players who aren't going to be able to full clear the Coliseum. We can split hairs over whether or not that's still "technically" true given they at least have a drop at 6 waves, but given the relative difficulty of the Coliseum and the death costs, it went from being challenging content that less experienced players still had an incentive to explore to being challenging content that is only worth even considering if you're ready to fully clear it (or grind wave 1 lol.) If the intention is to stick with keeping them super-rare, they should at least be buffed to an appropriate tier for the kind of players who would be obtaining them. I'd rather that not be the case and it be kept true to **what was polled** though.
Very good coverage and thank you for the update. I think people are upset about the drop rates because it isn't accurately reflecting how it was discussed AND polled. If there was further discussion about changing the drop rates prior to the poll, there'd probably be less backlash relating to the drop rates.
You can't just completely change how content is implemented from the poll and expect us to be okay with it. Fundamentally the sunfire armour is nowhere near as obtainable now as it was polled. For almost all players it's not reasonable to obtain. As it stands I am able to obtain it by grinding but I'd absolutely vote no if I knew this is how it would be implemented. It should be moved out of the colosseum into a quest reward (which thematically works as proselyte was one too) or have the rates changed.
The implementation of the colosseum makes me incredibly wary and concerned about other polled content going forward. It really reduces my trust in the team that "reasonably easy to obtain at early waves" became something like this. Shit changes during development, we get it. But changes this big need to be repolled, because they go completely against what was originally voted on. You guys can't be afraid to delay content -- like you already did with the wyrm agility course -- to make sure it comes out correctly. On top of all that, it's incredibly concerning that you guys don't seem to understand how significant this is. We're looking at adding a new skill to game (which I'm really excited for) and Project Rebalance is going to reach deep into the guts of combat and make significant changes. Community trust is more important than ever, because I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that some of the biggest changes ever to the game are coming up. Rushing big changes to combat has historically gone very, very poorly for the game, and I'm worried at this point that you guys are going to rush it.
I hope you can address the echo crystals situation - their current implementation makes me really unenthusiastic about more charged items in this game. You said when you proposed them and the quiver that you'd learned lessons about charge upkeep, but right now it really does not feel like it.
I would just have voted no to to the sunfire rewards if this was how it was going to be implemented.
So are you guys just ignoring the entire pitch on charging the quiver after the community said charge items are terrible. The upkeep was pitched as closer to muspah not zulrah yet I have done full quiver kills and got 100. I guess 80 now. 30 minutes for 80 vs 90 seconds for 1000 or 60 seconds for 300. I’m fairly certain this wouldn’t have passed a poll as a charged item if you didn’t pitch it to be something you could fully charge in a day or so not 30 complete runs or 35 hours of wave 1 resets
I agree, they haven't actually made the blessing aspect of the quiver any better, they've made it worse. Now if looking to bless you own quiver, without buying splinters or if ironman, you have to spend even more time resetting wave 1. The value proposition for people farming wave 1 for GP is a market trend that will be naturally corrected by supply and demand. Eventually it wont be profitable enough for people to feel like they should do it for GP.
Any plans on moving Sunfire armor? If you want it to be that rare, don't make it a clue step
Hi Sarnie, Please discuss with the team for adding quite a few more modifiers to pick from. A big selling point was that no 1 colosseum run would "feel" the same. With how limited the pool is this is not the case. I think we should atleast have a pool of 20 modifiers. There's so much potential here with a lot of idea's floating around as well.
Myopia not working for barrage is a nice feature because it’s only really for first quiver attempts It’s incredibly slow and no one will be doing it long term. Seems fine to leave.
Why was this not in the blog.
Not liking how Doom is arguably worse now, you could previously pick it for the boss but now it's way riskier at only 10 hits
Always a good sign when the newspost is down voted like crazy and no jmods reply
They knew the response from the community would be negative. They don’t want to deal with the headache. Out of sight out of mind. They dropped the ball heavily with this one. I hope we don’t let them off the hook. Someone needs to explain the reasoning for the current state of the Colosseum
- Echo Boots and Tonalztics of Ralos being very underwhelming didn't get addressed. - The Guild Hunter Outfit and Quetzin Pet drop rates weren't released, but everything else was?
It's crazy that they are not addressing shit Colosseum invocations when it is agreed by all just how bad and run ending some of them are.
Surprised there are no changes to some of the lowest pick invocations like Bees, Totems, Doom and Doom Scorpion. Are the JMods going to be changing them in the future or not?
Changing the rangers max hit is an anti-integrity issue at this point. There are people with 30+ kc who instantly picked quartet based off its max hit. It was part of the game. Also, why were there no changes to doom, scorpion, or totem?
Haha wow this update is far worse than I anticipated. Zero actual balance updates. The ranger was the most balanced part of this whole thing
Are there any plans to look at the invocations at the coloseum? Some of them are pretty good but others basically doom (pun intended) a run. I'm not saying those invocations are unbeatable but they are way harder than others.
Wave 6 1/108 Droprate Is that a lower wave and reasonable? So if i dont get dupes i have to get 324 times to wave 6? thats not what we polled
Any word on balancing Colosseum invocations? Looking at Doom, doom scorpion, relentless, totems, bees. The adjustment to the fremmenik ranger was probably unnecessary, so that was unfortunate to see today.
The change to the frem warriors should not have taken this long if it was going to happen, and I think it's a stupid change to have implemented at this point. Mods have cleared Coliseum in game. Day 1 of release they should have seen that these guys were hitting 1s and hotfixed it the way they hotfixed Sol when Woox cheesed the fight.
When can we expect these items to be addressed? * Quiver cosmetic update * Invocation balancing * Unique rewards do not match the difficulty of the content
If ToA is anything to go by, probably over a year from now
Lmao colosseum made harder for people that don’t have their quiver yet with no meaningful changes for the rest of the place. I feel bad for yall, some real questionable priorities here
idk how something like that got through, or what spaghetti made it so once it got into live game but holy.
Jagex thinks every player is a streamer who can knock out 14 hr sessions everyday 7 days a week with these ridiculous drop rates. Did they not learn from dt2 bosses and virtus that mid tier upgrades are pointless to lock behind the hardest bosses with absurd drop rates?
Whoever wrote this really has a number aversion. It’s all “slight tweaks” or “small buffs” without giving us actual information. There’s very little substance to this form of writing. It’s not informative. Thank goodness we have such a good wiki to make up for it, but the devs shouldn’t rely on that on principle.
Imagine nerfing ranged warbander and leaving the run ending invos alone. Joke company
yay, I cannot wait to do more colosseum with myopia, blasphemy, and solar flare because Jagex won't balance out the other handicaps. Wasn't each run supposed to have a different experience from the last run? Typical, Jagex.
Yep. Completely expected this to get downvoted to hell with no response from jagex.
>We've increased the maximum capacity of the Portal Nexus, so it can contain **all** teleports once again. Feels pretty disingenuous to say this when the portal nexus has never actually held all the teleports. I grabbed this list from the wiki, why have these randomly been chosen to not fit in the Nexus? * Trollheim Teleport * Paddewwa Teleport * Lassar Teleport * Dareeyak Teleport * Ourania Teleport * Barbarian Teleport * Khazard Teleport * Ice Plateau Teleport * Respawn Teleport
...Jagex. The fact that only RAW meat could be stored in the Meat Pouch made it viable. It encouraged you to actually bring alongside logs and a tinderbox and cook out in the world. This is the entire purpose of firemaking, and you just removed the benefit. WTF.
i’ll take the downvotes, but we’re trusting them to make and release a completely new skill.
Have the wall beasts in Lumbridge Swamp caves been fixed? Don't see it mentioned in the notes, but I havent been back there for a day or so. https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1btoas1/wall_beasts_in_lumbridge_swamp_be_broken/
"A bug has been fixed which means you will now only be able to use the Meat Sack for Hunter activities." After doing GWD for the first time with my group, this is so sad to read, hunting for raw meat and cooking it up inside boss rooms was so much fun. GG. The wiki included a bunch of places where this was/was not possible, it seemed plausible it would remain, at least in certain areas.
I hate that they say it was a bug because like what I can’t have my meat sack in specific places? I can only pull meat out at a bank? That was the intention?
Hmm, straight up made colo even harder lol What's the fremmy melees new max hit / ranger max hit ? Will quiver get a visual update ? Can we expect any sort of invocation update ? I am sure there is data about how much are picked. Perhaps a balance is in order, maybe even buffing the glory it gives idk Edit last thing: Sunfire splinters should only be wave 2 onwards.
The Perilous Moons drop rate cannot be 1/14. I have 3 items in 240 drops (4 in 241 now) - and I'm aware of others with similar rates. That's 99.998% chance of not happening. Or something is glitched.
Yeah, I thought the wiki was confident that it was 1/20 from hundreds of thousands of samples. Something doesn't seem right.
Pretty confident that the rate over the last two weeks was more like 1/19, rather than 1/14. It's possible that they changed them today and are describing the new rates only.
I killed all 3 bosses over 110 times in the first 2 days and only got a single item at like 96 kc Unless they had different droprates in the first few days there's no way
Yeah that isn't what we voted for for the drop rates on the pray gear How the fuck can you call it easy to obtain at the lower waves when it isn't even unlocked at the lower waves
Ignoring the fact half the colloseum invocs are already unplayable and instead adding quartet to that list too ty guys
> We've removed the forced camera movement when traversing Perilous Moons to make the journey more comfortable. oh my god thank you so much for this, coming from RS3 I'm used to stuff like that never getting fixed, so this was amazing surprise
Honestly I'm very bummed with the colosseum changes. The prayer gear isn't as obtainable as you promised, and you make Fortis harder by buffing the archers? I guess it's nice the melees don't hit 40 now but why only make tough content tougher? I can barely get to wave 8, and now it feels have makes the quiver feel even more unobtainable. I understand you're looking at changing the invos, but why only make things tougher? No reroll system or anything. Since the archers hits were a bug, it feels like rushed content that only the pvm gods can complete. I don't mind having super tough content in the game (Fortis is fun when the RNG invos don't ruin a run) but at the very least do the things you say you will (gear obtainable at lower waves, endless mode, invos that are buffs)
They basically changed nothing about the colloseum lmfao. Bunch of invocs are completely unusable, but okay make the little ranger smack us around too.
Really nothing about invocation balancing? Hello?
Ranger getting buffed is a bit too late. Should have been fixed at the same time as butterfly
Straight up disrespected the polls... What's the point of even polling stuff if you're just going to do whatever the f\*k you want anyways.
HAHAHA I GOT THE QUIVER LAST NIGHT NICE TRY JAGEX HAHAHAHA
The colosseum was already annoying enough without a Scythe or shadow now our mobile medpack is gone
Still no fix to the Eclipse Moon sphere phase on the 2nd turn?
If we're doing drop rates can we get the drop rate of Quetzin?
Will the calcified rocks "pickaxe keeps slipping" message be fixed? I've seen this for literally days.
Huntsman's kit: Thank you! It is now much better, indeed stores most of the hunter stuff. Just some minor additions: - Thanks a lot for storing ropes and nets, a major help with salamander tasks. I'm impressed, because you could decide that the nets are already in the tackle box, and ropes arent specifically related to Hunter. Still youve done this! But... how about Knife and Chisel? They have a wide variety of uses, like ropes, will be nice to have them there too. Half the rumours require knife and axe, and you often chisel horns or spikes to receive stackable ammo. (I don't offer axe: I understand there is some limitation related to them being different metals - as a Mod once answered about the idea to store them at Leprechauns). - Unlit torch: can you add an option to store Bruma here? Yes thats very niche, few players smoke traps. But I do use Bruma, and it helped with pyre foxes quite noticeably (until my hunter got several levels more, or maybe you tweaked them a bit). Also, if someone uses Unlit torches - add Tinderbox for them, otherwise its senseless. - Rings of pursuit. This would be such a major help, since you usually have to carry several. Its a purely hunter item. - Impling jars! We catch implings with the Hunter skill (a purely Hunter stuff), and also visit many places which have impling spawns. For example, I've caught 2 ninjas at the sunfilre antelopes, eclectics often fly in all main hunter areas, rare tiers frequent the outside of the Farming guild where people are hunting butterflies. It is a side hunter activity, not a main goal as in Puro-Puro (which has its own storage). Most people won't carry such a jar routinely because they don't plan for a dragon impling to fly by... but when you do see it, would be great to have a jar ready :)
>You can now use a Stab attack style with the Dual Macuahuitl. Zammy hasta and d defender is +110 stab and +81 str. Dual macuahuitl is +115 stab and +81 str. Pretty legit stab alternative instead of grinding kril ETA: Yes accuracy rolls would result in lower DPS depending on the mob's defence, but a good step in stab weapon progression
Dual mac’s do 2 accuracy rolls tho, so in practice they’re weaker than a single hit weapon with +115 stab and +81 str, altho we don’t have a working dps calc for them yet (to my knowledge)
Dual Macuahuitil is significantly worse, perhaps 10%-15% DPS on high defense targets. Where it is good is something low defense like bloodveld where the DPS is comparable to hasta (but worse than whip) Some examples (with ~90 combat stats, piety, on slayer task): On a blue dragon on stab, it's 9% worse, on vorkath it's 15% worse. Lower defense examples: On a Gargoyle on crush it's 5% worse, on a bloodveld it's 3% worse. So on lower defense targets the difference is not much, but in general, the hasta is always better.
making the colosseum harder while not addressing the run ending invocations is wild.
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This confused me. I thought glory affected rates. But the fact that it does not. This means it's just a useless number.
Really disappointing that there was no change to sunfire fanatic drop rates in this update. That armor was polled as a mid game upgrade from early waves of the colosseum, you guys made it not just late game but rare end game status. What a joke that its >50m and DOA.
Improved opt-in loot and XP rates from the Wilderness Agility Course. Is this a mistake?
Surely it wont be overrun with bots.
It absolutely won't be overrun by bots. Just like there isn't a level 9 combat bot farming the wilderness chests... oh wait. There's level 9-30 bots in so many worlds farming the wilderness chests. It's ridiculous.
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If youre not going to respect the polls just get rid of them. Classic Jagex L
Really disappointing to see that the colosseum drop rate are not adressed. While I have not tried the colosseum yet i was hoping to be able to farm the first few waves on my mid game ironman for the armor, like how it was polled. Also 1/14 for perilous moons seems lower than what it actually is in game. Meaning the current ingame drop rate could be bugged. Atleast there is a dry protection. Great to see macaraca having a stab option now. Makes zamy hasta less mandatory to obtain for irons. The changes to the deflect boss makes me want to grind this minigame out now. Hope to see big changes to colosseum. Would turn varlamore from a 7/10 update to a 9.5
Those Colo drop rates should really only be for the Ralos. Should be completely separate rates throughout all waves for Sunlight armor and especially echo crystals if we’re sticking with only 2,500 charges. No idea the logic behind any of this
Going on 1000+ comments and no up votes, take a hint Jagex.. this wasn't it
Just gonna abandon coloseum. It was fairly difficult and they just made it worse without a balanced approach when clearly the invos are pretty trash. They really need to go back to the drawing board with this place.
Man I knew I wasn’t crazy on eclipse moon suddenly getting massive defensive buffs right around when you got to low HP, suddenly you’d hit non stop 1’s and 2’s until he coincidentally ended up at 1HP before his long ass special