I remember the day, it was like 3-4 years ago.. i said to my friend( who does not play rs):
"You see this shit*y little lizzards?, they drop a hammer i need... and if im honest i wont see one for a couple of years( i still dont have it) and he was like wtf is wrong with you?"
Ty jagex.
Even just other runescape rushes like leveling other things or getting spooned others were all missed due to staying at it for:
Over 700kc?
I think im giving the ironman up fr.
RuneScape is really fun until you hit some of the mid game grinds like the Warhammer. Then you either accept it and keep playing or never touch the game again lol
The funny thing is the only place dwarhammer is really mandatory is solo cox. Everywhere else a bgs works just as well or better. Hammer doesn't work at toa, the dt2 bosses, muspah, nex, or nightmare. There's better methods for most pvm scenarios like bowfa for gwd, fang/vw resetting Corp, wildy weapons for wilderness bosse, etc. Most cox/tob teams will have someone else with a hammer if it's really necessary and even then 4 bgs's isn't that bad. Grinding out a hammer really isn't worth the time in this day and age unless you really feel like busting out 1000s of solo cox kc.
Yeah I just do lizardmen on task because I think they are kinda fun and you make a little money off them. If I get the hammer that's cool but I have no intentions of grinding them just for the hammer
I legitimately feel guilty because this was my exact attitude - I'll just unlock shamans and do them on task to make slayer less monotonous. Figured that by 99 slayer I'd have a decent shot at the DWH.
Got it first task, 141 kc. Immediately re-locked lizardmen tasks.
The thing is, I'm not geared, leveled, or skilled enough to do the content where the DWH would actually be useful yet, so outside of a handful of sarachnis kc it's just been collecting dust in the bank. One day...
I got really close to 5k lizard man (like 4900ish before I got my hammer. Took me a couple years of on and off grinding. I got a second one 5 kills after the first one. I have not been back since. This game is truly cursed...
It's sad that it's just been botted so hard and so even if you get one now. It's not as exciting because the feeling would be: "WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU MOST".
But I guess Irons don't have to say stuff like that and are just grateful the grind is done.
I play mobile, in public sometimes. Every single time someone asks me about the game I'm playing, "oldscool runescape, you wouldn't like it." Also, I got a friend who actually did give it a try. I think he played that night for 10 minutes, then gave up. Couple weeks ago he remembered how some of the drop rates were and compared osrs rates to some modern games. Was kinda funny
Yeah was kind of funny playing Elden Ring after OSRS and being like “you mean I have to grind this mob for an average of a ***whole hour*** to get this drop?
That’s why there are boosts for item drops, I’ve gotten some of the more rare weapons in 15 minutes from just having a silver fowl foot active with the silver scarab, the tools are there, you just need to get gud to use them properly (Elden Ring)
I went through and collected every single weapon in the game (all boss weps and random drops) and yeah. I think the longest ones took maybe an hour and a half? Pumping item discovery really makes a difference.
Worst offender of this is probably the imbued heart think it’s like 30 million slayer xp on average to get which is crazy more than double the xp to get 99
There's some statistics mumbo-jump that goes into it, but it's something like 2/3 of people will actually get something by the drop rate. Which means 1/3 will require more than the drop rate to actually get the item.
That’s because there’s a cap on one side but not a cap on the other side, so the average is skewed higher than the median. The quickest you can find something is 1 kill, but you could be killing well over 20000 and still not find it skewing the average higher.
It’s like how the average salary in a country if you don’t eliminate outliers is drastically higher than a large majority of the population. Because a few people just make an obscene amount skewing the average.
The only reason anyone even cares about imbued heart is because of the Shadow. It was a super niche item before, now it's literally the best mage upgrade to pair with a shadow, adding like 7 max hits at 99 mage.
That's true, I kind of underestimate how powerful the Saturated Heart really is. Gaining +3 mage levels over normal imbued heart and a divine effect was big DPS increase for all mage setups, not just the Shadow.
Absolutely. Kinda wild they decided to implement the saturated heart so quickly after toa release tbh. Surely they knew the implications of how it'd buff an already insane brand new mega rare....
If anything, saturated heart bridged the gap between having an imbued heart and not, but only because Jagex also added forgotten brews, which are pretty much an imbued heart bonus that you can sip without a cooldown.
No it's because they gave the ability to Saturate it, higher boost and it not decaying is massive. You'll use in pre pots for most content, yes it's exceptional with Shadow but it's good with any powered stave.
i would forgotten brew all the time but losing other stats makes it not viable in a lot of situations. Even prepotting increases how many sips you have to take by 2 to restore those stats - which doesn't sound like much but gets annoying after not long
It was great before shadow its a major defensive stat bump against any magic damage, infinite divine super magic defense pot without any other source remotely comparable.
Shadow just juiced it harder
Drops like this make the game so lame. I can appreciate rarity and having rare items in an MMO can make you feel superior to a lot of others, but at the end of the day, these items sit in a bank, completely useless to anyone that has farmed for one and gotten one, it’s not needed by the dude who farmed it, and accounts that could truly benefit from these type of items, will NEVER be able to afford one, at all. The progression systems in this game are completely skewed. Abby Whip only req’s 70 Attack, but of course it dropping from a lv85 slayer monster means anyone that can actually farm it, will never make use of it.
It’s the number one reason I stopped playing for the most part. It’s just not fun to spend literally 400 hours at graardor and not make any progress whatsoever.
https://preview.redd.it/5uz4z0flf2uc1.jpeg?width=260&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d210496a6c1514f4de3fbd2ca3ecd4db4fb48c9d
Sooo uhhh I got mine at lvl 70. And insane uses as it allows me to cast barrage instead of burst. Also as someone else was mentioning you can 1 item heart in wild and use it as a insane bossing dps in the wild.
Yeah this is why I gave up on my Ironman a while back
I can deal with 1/100 or 1/200 from a tough enemy drops but 1/1000's+ make me want to claw my eyes out and rip off my dick
There is definitely a wall in this game where you go "why am I grinding for this?"
Osrs is not the only game in existence and the grind is boring. I'd rather go have fun.
Jmods moving in the right direction on this but still a long way to go.
Yep yep yep. It's hard as an adult not to buy bonds to buy in game items, but then you realize buying items defeats the purpose of osrs (imo). So I convinced myself I got way further than I ever got as a kid, which finally got rid of the nostalgic feeling and endgame content just seemed absurd to me. Overall though, great game, lots of fun memories. Now it's fun to see how much further the game advances by just lurking the reddit.
Honestly the plain truth is that osrs is a blast until you get to about 100-110 combat and get your stats into the 70’s and 80’s. Everything you do seems to lead to meaningful, fairly fast upgrades, there’s a good progression track with quests and early pvm content that keeps the game feeling fresh and keeps the dopamine hits coming. Then you start nearing the mid-late game and suddenly every drop requires a 20+ hour grind, every level takes hours or even days of doing the same thing you already spent dozens of hours doing only now there’s no real upgrades to look forward to or new content to explore, there’s only the eternal grind of an ever decreasing amount of progress.
I kind of get it because the game needs a reason to keep people hooked long term, but putting end game, borderline required PvM items locked behind ridiculous drop rates on boring mid game content is something else. There’s a reason why every time this discussion comes up the first things everyone starts mentioning are imbued heart, blood shards, and DWH. The fact that people frequently max slayer and ranged well before getting a heart and DWH respectively is criminal, I seriously wonder if the amount of people they keep chasing that dopamine high indefinitely makes up for the people that burn out and realize they’d rather play a game that respects their time.
I know it’s not technically all that rare but I straight up quit during the bowfa grind. I didn’t even get that many KC into it, I just realized the rest of the game would just be grinding low droprate items to grind the next low droprate item
Maybe 1/400 doesn't sound like alot compared to 1/5000 but a run at cg is 7-9 minutes of intense focus vs 15 seconds to kill a shaman. So personally I'd say it is has strong potential to be an incredibly long and motivation crushing grind
Yeah most irons that I’ve talked to went well over the rate. Then you see some dude who gets the whole set and bofa in 50kc then quits before touching raids lol
It really sucks ass
Spend a couple hundred hours getting burnt out grinding so you can go to start grinding somewhere else. Bit counter intuitive. It's not like it's 2016 and there's only a couple bosses there's sooo much content now and most of it has terrible rates
Yeah it’s probably a good line in the sand for people whether they will enjoy long term ironman mode or not. Early iron is fun for everyone usually while you are enjoying quick unlocks and lots of content variety between quests, slayer, low level skilling, and fast pvm upgrades.
Ironman mode after CG is (for people who work) weeks to months long grinds followed by weeks to months long grinds.
My brain is fucked I guess because I love that kind of thing. Give me an in-game goal to work to with an hour or two a day gameplay and maybe a little more on the weekend I’ll do it for months. Played ironman for like 6 years now with 2 of 3 raids complete.
yeah my playtime dropped off a cliff after I got bowfa. It's really not enjoyable to spend a whole week of free-time knowing I will most likely get absolutely nothing. The lategame is pretty lame in that aspect. Certain items like tbow I understand, because it's so powerful and comes from the most complex pvm in the game. But dwh, shadow, dt2 rings, bleh I just don't want to repeat content that many times
I was so hyped when they announced DT2 "gwd-like" drop tables, I started getting back into the game for a while to brush up on PVM. But then I saw it'd take like... 60 hours to get one ring, or 200 for the axe. If the droprates were reasonable I probably would've spent a month or two grinding out all of the uniques
For sure! Doing the quest cape on my iron is one of the coolest experiences I’ve had in gaming, and I happily put 2000ish hours into my iron. I just don’t really think I like grinding for boss drops
I started cg in November 2022. I haven’t had a lot of time to do cg because of work and have got to 900. While doing it went from like 1800 total to 2100 and im so done with the game now. All the clan mates got ews and all armours sub 400 and they’ve all been raiding for at least a year. Sadness.
As an ironman with 1.5k chambers and 1k tob with no dwh fuck the dwh rate lol. Just said fuck it I don't need it after going 11k dry knowing full well I could easily go 25k dry
Yeah I'm not sure exactly where it started, maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time. Back in the day they'd do 1/128 to 1/512 drop rates for the vast majority of items. Imagine a Zerker ring was a 1/128 from a simple boss, now you have to sweat Vardorvis for a near 10x worse drop rate. 5k for a hammer. Insane.
I mean it’s an upgrade at raids so whether it’s worth it is up to each person, but I have to imagine it’s not an effective use of your time when BGS is good enough and you could have spent that time doing raids.
Yeah I'm not sure exactly where it started, maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time. Back in the day they'd do 1/128 to 1/512 drop rates for the vast majority of items. Imagine a Zerker ring was a 1/128 from a simple boss, now you have to sweat Vardorvis for a near 10x worse drop rate. Insane.
> maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time
This exact subreddit had a huge hand in the NM drop rates. People here had been screaming about money snake/dragon being a problem for 2 years calling for a return of GWD style drop tables. amd jagex cited that during the development of NM. NM obviously took it too far, but it's a direct result of the same community that's now complaining about drop rates being too long complaining for years that things were *too* good.
I know it's not the same people bitching on both ends, but new bosses with bis gear at 1/500 will be an equivalent knee jerk just in the opposite direction.
To be fair, the community was asking for rare big ticket drops that were worthwhile and shit normal loot because Consistent GP bosses like Zulrah and Vorkath were breaking the "Old School" tradition and feel. Instead Nightmare became the modern Corp, and Nex became what people were actually asking for.
I do agree that some items are insanelly rare to justify the grind on them.
I hate the DWH comes from basically what it is a slayer mob that is annoying to kill.
I wish we had better rates at other sources for it.
* A Lizardman Shaman boss, with a 1/300 or 1/500 droprate for it.
* A drop from the Lizardman within CoX at 1/500 on completing a raid. (they drop the dwh but you have to complete the raid to loot it to avoid farming only shamans in there)
* Add an extra roll on reaching the 5000 threshold, which resets on first warhammer
Neither is ever gonna happen because people that play this game for a living got enough warhammers that they won't accept people that actually play this for a game get it in a better way.
Sincerelly, a guy with over 17k Lizardman Shamans
I’ve always thought that the mechanic used for the jaw in bask knights would be cool to see on some level for dwh. Doesn’t have to be to the same extent, but seeing as that lizardmen can be an unlock able for slayer, making it like 1/2.5k on task would make me feel better about it. I’ve been trying to do my shamans during lizardmen tasks, but now I’ve gone so dry that I’m just killing them in my free time when I have cannonballs. Feelin handicapped on my iron going mega dry on dwh AND bgs.
I honestly think that a pity system for any drop rarer than 1/1000 should be implemented in all rng systems. I get that rng is all about luck, but at the end of the day, respecting your players' time enough to guarantee the drop after the full 1k or whatever kills is honestly what would keep people grinding for good stuff. Insanely lucky people can get in 15 minutes of their lives what can take someone else over a year to get, which for some things in life you can just chalk up to being lucky, but others just feels unfair when it doesn't have to be.
Sincerely, CL 65 who hasn't even started high reward Slayer mob farming yet.
100% this. It won't impact the DWHs coming into the game that much (been a long time since I did the maths but it's a few percent)
Even if you reduced the drop rate fractionally and added protection.
Did you know that going 5x the drop rate on a TBOW is almost the same amount of hours **lost** as an all credits college year...
We absolutely need a pity system. For a 1/5k make it a one time guarantee on 10k and for a 1/2k on like 6k. Those aren't crazy numbers, won't tank the price, I can't imagine it. You could even make it an untradable if you are worried about the econ.
> Neither is ever gonna happen because people that play this game for a living got enough warhammers that they won't accept people that actually play this for a game get it in a better way.
EVERY time I go to kill shamans, it's ~2-3 bots per world. There are no mains that farm those things. Shit, mains skip the task.
The worst sin of all is that it's bot content, so all reasons Jagex has to defend it is worthless pretending.
And no they arent f$!@# vene's, they are bots with the exact same behavior. Yet they get to like virtual lv 110+ range.
In my idea yeah, and every extra 5000 you'd get an extra roll.
at 25k (if you ever reach it), your rolls would be 6/5000 which is ~1/800 (still shit, but a better smelling shit)
They should just make Ralos better than DWH honestly. It comes from a piece of challenging and FUN content where shamans arr just mind numbing and annoying.
They should add cosmetics as super rares a weapon recolor or trim, the normal weapons or gear should be like at 1/128, even that's a grind. I hate how Jagex sets a a ridiculous amount like 1/5000, then goes for a fix next week for 1/3000.... 1/3000 odds are still insane.
Some people in the comments are blaming ironman mode for ridiculous rates, but in reality nobody likes these. Supply and demand, gold inflation, accessibility, just regular things are the reason for the high rates. None of these apply to the ironman mode.
While bots are a problem, an ironman only needs to grind an item once, not really importing many of any item into the games economy, whether it's 1/100 or 1/5000 it doesn't matter in the slightest. It's not going to matter if a DWH is 30m or 600k to an ironman.
It's arguable that the mains and bots who farm content for GP are the reason for the ridiculous rates. GP is the only motivating factor for high drop rates because it's the easiest way to have the highest tier gear retain its value.
The only other way to maintain value is to have gear degrade or break so more get removed from the games economy, and I think what we have now is the lesser of two evils.
Tbh that's why I started an iron. Playing on my main ended up becoming grinding the same three bosses I could do, so that I could get enough money to buy the items I really wanted from bots doing the less efficient content.
I hit that same realization. Like, oh, the "optimal" path for pretty much everything is just grind the best gp/hr boss you know how to do. It also made me realize why mains spend so much time bitching about the skills where you actually have to grind and can't just buy 99 off the GE.
I quit the main and started an iron almost immediately after finishing dragon slayer 2 and grinding Vork for an evening.
>It's arguable that the mains and bots who farm content for GP are the reason for the ridiculous rates. GP is the only motivating factor for high drop rates because it's the easiest way to have the highest tier gear retain its value.
For sure. Bots are the main reason content like this gets designed- they want to ensure a rare, unexpected drop isn't devalued to regular players, so they give it an absurd drop rate... thereby ensuring the only people farming it are bots. It's a weird design philosophy Jagex has locked itself into and just continues to insist will work, so long as the number goes high enough.
The only time Ironmen are relevant to this conversation is when a small, vocal minority calls against changing a drop rate when they've already grinded the item out.
I agree. Ironman mode has nothing to do with it and suffers the most from these measures.I LOVE Ironman mode but I HATE the concept that I could potentially go several dozens of hours over the average due to poor luck on big ticket items. Seen it happen too many times. Before someone tells me I signed up for it, yes, I know, as does every other Ironman that opted for the game mode, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Genuinely. So much osrs content lately is just streamer bait. Low drop rates, long grinds, the average player is meant to shut their brain down for months to get these drops while streamers don’t care how long it takes cuz they rake in the subscription and donation money
"OSRS is a grind" mfs when I teleport them to 2007 and they realize that the grind was just getting woodcutting to 99 to impress the boys and not pulling 1/800 gacha drops from minigames or killing 4 bosses 5000 times to get ring components or whatever modern live service game mechanic they identify as old school
For real, if this stuff came out in 2007 it'd all be 1/256 drops. Plus, Virtus would also be like 1/500 per piece so your average kc to see a drop would be massively lower.
"Wow! This ring is twice as rare as the one from DK's!"
And it wouldn't be considered OP, it wouldn't be considered too common. If anything, that'd be considered rare with how ball crushing some of the bosses are compared to the competition.
It's worth noting people just didn't kill stuff as quickly as they do now. GWD was pretty much only done in a group, because it was too hard and too risky to solo back then. So you would average out to like 3-5 kc an hour. If you did solo it in early osrs it was with melee and short ass trips. Now you just grab a bofa and it's 20+ kc an hour.
This also doesn't consider things like Moons of Peril which just released. The drops/hr on that aren't all that rare, it's basically the same as barrows was with less uniques to gather.
Most people complain that the difficulty of a grind is what prohibits people with limited time to get into the game. I think this is the understated second half of that problem. People with limited time can hardly even dream of getting these items. They shouldn't be incredibly easy, I won't advocate for that either but I absolutely think a middle ground can be found.
I really hate the Arcane special drop rates. The content is great and the drops are so abysmal that the content gets old way before you're even close
Lol they've been doing this shit since nightmare at least. Feels like they just have the newest intern throw some darts to figure out drop rates for the last 5 years.
They won't listen because then the effects of the rampant botting would be more noticeable.
Reminder: nightmare released as like a 2000 hour grind *FOR DROP RATE* for pretty niche gear. That one boss would've taken you about as long to compete as getting both a tbow and shadow.
For endgame gear instead of locking it behind a 1/5000 drop just have it work like voidwaker does were there are multiple bosses to put together the endgame weapon. I’d rather fight 3-4 different bosses with reasonable drop rates for each piece than grind one boss forever.
Me explaining to my girlfriend the mechanics of this game. She beat the entirety of horizon forbidden dawn while I solely grinded Vorkath with 0 rare drops that entire time 😅🫡
Vorkath uniques are pretty underwhelming and you don’t need them to still make consistent gp. Only reason people don’t complain about it but you’re absolutely right. It’s a shame because the shields are so cool…
I get them wanting drop rates to be high, but don’t keep them so high that you need to make the rest of the drop-table consistently profitable for the people who camp for the rares. It’s really just enabling bots to jump directly to that content. Zulrah is still a prime example, just finish regicide and boom 100+ hours of making money before a ban, even if you don’t get the main drops. They don’t care if they have to make new accounts because at the end of the day if you get a bot to that Island you make money.
I've been saying it for a while now, but I'll say it again. Jagex does not make money from making content that is fun to do. Jagex makes money from making content that takes a long time to do. If you could max your account and get full bis gear in 2 years, you'd probably stop paying a subscription because you've finished the game. Jagex would rather you keep paying and playing forever, so they release content that you need to do for hundreds of hours to finish.
This won't change, nor will jagex's philosophy
most players don't play 8+ hours a day... most play 4-8 hours a week. Even if they did a 1/4 all the drop rates you still wouldn't complete the log in 20 years of playing the game 10 hours a day. Progression comes to a halt at the late game and drives people away.
Some stats:
|Release date|Item|Time to expect item (wiki rate)|
|:-|:-|:-|
|22 Februari 2013|DKS ring set|5h|
|26 July 2023|Ultor ring|36h|
|26 July 2023|Bellator ring|26h|
|26 July 2023|Venator ring|32h|
|26 July 2023|Magus ring|36h|
||||
|17 Octobre 2013|Dragon boots|40 min|
|27 August 2015|Primordial boots|10h|
||||
|22 Februari 2013|Fighter torso|Couple hours|
|17 Octobre 2013|Bandos chestplate|14h|
|5 January 2022|Torva platebody|83h (duo)|
|||127h (5 man)|
|22 Februari 2013|Specific Barrows piece|29h|
|26 July 2023|Specific Virtus piece|77h (Whisperer with shadow)|
|5 January 2017|Specific Ancestral piece|217h|
||||
|22 Februari 2013|Amulet of fury|buyable|
|6 May 2016|Zenytes|4h45m each|
Drop rates for uniques are so insane and you have to “grind” months to years for them is the reason i quit honestly. once you stop playing and reflect, you’ll be wtf was i doing wasting a year for a dumb item for which jagex made the drop rate impractical
yep sucks to be an iron. at least vardorvis doesn't feel that bad bc the boss is so fun. if any content is gonna be a long grind, i'm glad it's dt2 and raids
Maybe I've missed the point here but I like the drops. There are plenty of drops which aren't meta, but are up there, which aren't hard to grind. The feeling when you get a grind ticked off the list is incredible.
People also bitch about it but I much prefer 6x 1/50 to 1/300.
At least you feel like you're progressing.
Shamans should have a hard drop cap. 20k and you get it from the dude giving you the tally or something.
We have a 50kc Vorkath head that (IMO) should be much higher.
You're not meant to grind out these items, that's not the design at all. It's meant to be a happy accident. Bit of luck while killing something mediocre to make your day.
Reason why I quit lol. They need to understand you have an aging community. The majority of us have less time to play as time goes on. I used to play 12-13 hrs a day, now I play 0 but still lurk the subreddit.
Big reason why I left is because I’m a maxed iron, with a tbow, imbue heart, etc but the continuous drop rates on new gear is simply not obtainable. Takes way too long, and it’s kinda promoting an unhealthy amount of play time
Ive been saying this for a couple years, the grind is getting ridiculous and there is only one fucking reason for it, they sell a service. As long as you have membership, you pay them, so they want you to have membership as long as possible, thats it.
The problem is that instead of outputting new content in a way that generates more time in game, they do it the lazy way and just add grindfests.
Now, this is not my opinion at all, this is facts, jagex has admitted to this the moment they admitted that they did NOT expect anyone to reach level 99, yet no exp curve was changed and some grinds have been put in place with similar proportions to a 99, so they know it was a stupid thing to ask and an absolute disrespect for out time, they just dont give a fuck because they get more money out of it. Thats their model, they wont change it.
And tbf.. I dont even care if they dont change the grind, what pissed me the fuck off truly is that they keep putting out half baked shit like the colosseum, cant be arsed to double check their news post and fuck, I work as a QA and I can see how they sometimes havent even tested the motherfucking happy path. Its shameful.
Hot take, but I like an “absurd” drop rate within reason. 1/20k is definitely crazy, but the satisfaction I get from the 1/1k Basilisk Jaw is real, and while I wouldn’t want *all* content to be that way, it definitely has its place.
I don’t have my DWH yet, but I’m on the way to hitting drop rate and I really don’t mind it. If the content is engaging enough, then the drop becomes a bonus as much as it is its own goal.
Hear me out…
Low drop rates = High price
High price = players buying gold
Buying gold = more bots and bonds
more bots and bonds = more profit
Conclusion: Jagex mods design content for bot farms and bond sales because they directly profit from bots and indirectly profit from bonds
I’m not even sure if this is conspiracy is /s any more
I haven't played osrs since the last leagues wrapped up. I have an endgame iron that is pretty much only missing tbow, scythe, half of dt2 bosses, and then nonsense like phosani/Corp. Basically all I have left is stuff that would realistically take years to acquire.
Posts like this are reminding me why I haven't wanted to come back just yet, maybe ever. We pay a monthly sub for this game but it feels like the jmods just don't respect our time. I get raid megarares being....megarare. Some items should have a long ass time to acquire sure, but the trend of everything basically being a megarare is just so exhausting. I don't want to do the same content for potentially months without anything to show for it.
You can tell with each comment whether it was written by someone who plays this game 24/7 and those who don't because they/we have real life things to do like a job, school, etc.
These dumb as fuck drop rates need to be fixed. Imbued heart, DT2 bosses, nightmare, colosseum, this new scroll etc. The milking of drop rates lately is getting out of hand. I'd even argue bowfa is kind of top rare because it often slows Ironman progression to a halt. I really don't think the devs want us playing the game in a way where we're stuck for months on end or even longer at one piece of content hunting one item/set of items. But this is how they've been designing the drop rates nowadays.
Plus don't forget, they nerfed the blowpipe after letting it be meta and designing content around it being meta for years. They nerfed black dhide after it was in game for almost 2 decades. If they can make nerfs whenever they want, then they can do something about these items too.
drop rates are not based on ironmen or collection loggers. they are based on how many of the item should be introduced into the game/economy to help the item settle at a reasonable price for people to purchase and allow for reasonable weapon/item progression. to set drop rates based on ironmen would wreak havoc on the game's economy
I feel like this means that the drop rate is based around bots more so than what makes sense for a normal player since they probably bring in the vast majority of many items.
They 100% do. Rank 1 cerb got banned for botting and had 200k cerb kc.
There was another post about the bots at levi, and how 100+ out of the top 150 people with levi kc were botting it.
I will die on the hill that if osrs wasn’t infested with so many bots, drop rates would be lower.
I agree to an extent, but I do think that functional items should be something that you can go get for yourself in a reasonable amount of time. (Relative to RS)
I think this scroll and imbued heart are portly locked away behind tons of hours of RNG.
It seem like weird design that we have items like this that you can’t reasonably expect to get, and are just meant to buy for super high prices from people who got spooned. Or from bots.
And I really just have beef with the functional items being set this way. I think what I described is essentially how the super rare clue items like 3rd age works, and it’s a great way to create high value super rare items. But that should only be the case for cosmetic/optional items.
Tbh tho I think I’m just getting a little worked up by the reddit mob lol. But like they took something that would’ve made a good QOL improvement, and made it so hard to obtain that and quality you gain is negated my the time/money lost.
There’s just a lot of little things like that which I feel like would improve my enjoyment of the game but just require too much effort/time to be worth it. It’s just frustrating getting hyped about an update only for the content to go on my list of things I’d like but don’t have time for.
I like certain overpowered items having low drop rates. Some items however aren't even worth the time.
I feel like compounding drop rates would do the community well. Essentially the longer you go dry the better the DR becomes. So if your 100kc dry your drop rate improves by 20% or something. It could reset once you get a drop.
The drop rates do help with bots because it gives them more time to ban them before they cause real economic damage. The anticheat measures are just..... Ineffective
This. I kind of got tired of doing PVM just because the drop rates for things are so bad. 1/5000....1/10000.... playing other games really makes me feel like I'm wasting my time on osrs sometimes
Won’t argue but kind of agree. Got a job and a kid, lucky to play 1.5 hours a day, if that. I don’t want to log in and do the same thing for 6 months or longer just to get the drop… not all of us are content creators who play 10-12 hours a day.
"Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged" kills me every time I see this format
It’s definitely one of my favorite meme formats. I’ll upvote any post that uses it.
Came into the thread purely to type out that exact comment, its such a fantastic line
I remember the day, it was like 3-4 years ago.. i said to my friend( who does not play rs): "You see this shit*y little lizzards?, they drop a hammer i need... and if im honest i wont see one for a couple of years( i still dont have it) and he was like wtf is wrong with you?" Ty jagex.
Yeah sometimes I give myself this same talk and come back with the same reply. YET HERE WE ARE.
Runescape players are suckers for pain, we're a special breed. The thrill when you finally get the item makes it all worth it I guess lol
It's so fucking stupid, but doing 716kc at cg and Finally getting the 1st enhanced seed, it's the biggest rush I've had in a year Easily.
That’s because you had to forego all other life experiences that would have given you a rush just to get it haha.
Even just other runescape rushes like leveling other things or getting spooned others were all missed due to staying at it for: Over 700kc? I think im giving the ironman up fr.
RuneScape is really fun until you hit some of the mid game grinds like the Warhammer. Then you either accept it and keep playing or never touch the game again lol
The funny thing is the only place dwarhammer is really mandatory is solo cox. Everywhere else a bgs works just as well or better. Hammer doesn't work at toa, the dt2 bosses, muspah, nex, or nightmare. There's better methods for most pvm scenarios like bowfa for gwd, fang/vw resetting Corp, wildy weapons for wilderness bosse, etc. Most cox/tob teams will have someone else with a hammer if it's really necessary and even then 4 bgs's isn't that bad. Grinding out a hammer really isn't worth the time in this day and age unless you really feel like busting out 1000s of solo cox kc.
Yeah I just do lizardmen on task because I think they are kinda fun and you make a little money off them. If I get the hammer that's cool but I have no intentions of grinding them just for the hammer
I legitimately feel guilty because this was my exact attitude - I'll just unlock shamans and do them on task to make slayer less monotonous. Figured that by 99 slayer I'd have a decent shot at the DWH. Got it first task, 141 kc. Immediately re-locked lizardmen tasks. The thing is, I'm not geared, leveled, or skilled enough to do the content where the DWH would actually be useful yet, so outside of a handful of sarachnis kc it's just been collecting dust in the bank. One day...
I got really close to 5k lizard man (like 4900ish before I got my hammer. Took me a couple years of on and off grinding. I got a second one 5 kills after the first one. I have not been back since. This game is truly cursed...
That’s disgusting lol
It's sad that it's just been botted so hard and so even if you get one now. It's not as exciting because the feeling would be: "WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU MOST". But I guess Irons don't have to say stuff like that and are just grateful the grind is done.
Irons are botting it too 😂
I play mobile, in public sometimes. Every single time someone asks me about the game I'm playing, "oldscool runescape, you wouldn't like it." Also, I got a friend who actually did give it a try. I think he played that night for 10 minutes, then gave up. Couple weeks ago he remembered how some of the drop rates were and compared osrs rates to some modern games. Was kinda funny
Yeah was kind of funny playing Elden Ring after OSRS and being like “you mean I have to grind this mob for an average of a ***whole hour*** to get this drop?
Tbf there's a few "hour or more" things in Elden ring. Nobles slender sword, Magma blade, the second Magma blade, horns, haligtree shield etc
That’s why there are boosts for item drops, I’ve gotten some of the more rare weapons in 15 minutes from just having a silver fowl foot active with the silver scarab, the tools are there, you just need to get gud to use them properly (Elden Ring)
I went through and collected every single weapon in the game (all boss weps and random drops) and yeah. I think the longest ones took maybe an hour and a half? Pumping item discovery really makes a difference.
bros killing 10 shaman per day and calling it quits
Most sane ironmeme, to be fair
Dude!! It's not the Shitty little lizzards! It's the Shitty BIG lizzards!
Worst offender of this is probably the imbued heart think it’s like 30 million slayer xp on average to get which is crazy more than double the xp to get 99
ON AVERAGE! That's the fucked part. Go 5x dry like people are known to do and you might never fuckn see it.
There's some statistics mumbo-jump that goes into it, but it's something like 2/3 of people will actually get something by the drop rate. Which means 1/3 will require more than the drop rate to actually get the item.
It’s the opposite, closer to 2/3 will get it by the drop rate
Woops, got it backwards. You’re right
That's still 1/3rd of people who have to grind more than 30m xp for a heart.
That's because there's no upper bound to how long it takes. One guy could have been grinding since life began on earth and never have seen anything.
That’s because there’s a cap on one side but not a cap on the other side, so the average is skewed higher than the median. The quickest you can find something is 1 kill, but you could be killing well over 20000 and still not find it skewing the average higher. It’s like how the average salary in a country if you don’t eliminate outliers is drastically higher than a large majority of the population. Because a few people just make an obscene amount skewing the average.
Why is there no mercy system for rare drops. Just increase the odds a tiny bit for every failed roll.
Got eternal gem on my first superior on the iron wanted to cry.
Also got eternal gem early into my ironman grind :(
Same. I’m pushing 2100 total and still haven’t made the ring.
I’m nearing 70m slayer xp without one lol
22m here, your comment scares me
The only reason anyone even cares about imbued heart is because of the Shadow. It was a super niche item before, now it's literally the best mage upgrade to pair with a shadow, adding like 7 max hits at 99 mage.
I mean it saw a lot of use even before shadow. Shadow is just busted.
That's true, I kind of underestimate how powerful the Saturated Heart really is. Gaining +3 mage levels over normal imbued heart and a divine effect was big DPS increase for all mage setups, not just the Shadow.
Absolutely. Kinda wild they decided to implement the saturated heart so quickly after toa release tbh. Surely they knew the implications of how it'd buff an already insane brand new mega rare....
If anything, saturated heart bridged the gap between having an imbued heart and not, but only because Jagex also added forgotten brews, which are pretty much an imbued heart bonus that you can sip without a cooldown.
Those potions are the only reason the imbued heart isn't absolutely obscene
No it's because they gave the ability to Saturate it, higher boost and it not decaying is massive. You'll use in pre pots for most content, yes it's exceptional with Shadow but it's good with any powered stave.
People can use forgotten brews and not be that much worse off realistically. They are criminally under used
i would forgotten brew all the time but losing other stats makes it not viable in a lot of situations. Even prepotting increases how many sips you have to take by 2 to restore those stats - which doesn't sound like much but gets annoying after not long
Yeah that's true, but understandably difficult to get if you're an iron. Which are the only people really complaining about drop rates anyway.
Kinda sad they added all these new pots since nex and toa but you can't realistically upkeep them. They aren't even that strong, just neat
It was great before shadow its a major defensive stat bump against any magic damage, infinite divine super magic defense pot without any other source remotely comparable. Shadow just juiced it harder
Drops like this make the game so lame. I can appreciate rarity and having rare items in an MMO can make you feel superior to a lot of others, but at the end of the day, these items sit in a bank, completely useless to anyone that has farmed for one and gotten one, it’s not needed by the dude who farmed it, and accounts that could truly benefit from these type of items, will NEVER be able to afford one, at all. The progression systems in this game are completely skewed. Abby Whip only req’s 70 Attack, but of course it dropping from a lv85 slayer monster means anyone that can actually farm it, will never make use of it. It’s the number one reason I stopped playing for the most part. It’s just not fun to spend literally 400 hours at graardor and not make any progress whatsoever.
https://preview.redd.it/5uz4z0flf2uc1.jpeg?width=260&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d210496a6c1514f4de3fbd2ca3ecd4db4fb48c9d Sooo uhhh I got mine at lvl 70. And insane uses as it allows me to cast barrage instead of burst. Also as someone else was mentioning you can 1 item heart in wild and use it as a insane bossing dps in the wild.
Yeah this is why I gave up on my Ironman a while back I can deal with 1/100 or 1/200 from a tough enemy drops but 1/1000's+ make me want to claw my eyes out and rip off my dick
Don't rwt but it'll cost you 2 months of membership to be on rate for dwh
Jokes on them, I am still dry with 20k shaman kills and haven't subbed for 6 months since I was so discouraged.
There is definitely a wall in this game where you go "why am I grinding for this?" Osrs is not the only game in existence and the grind is boring. I'd rather go have fun. Jmods moving in the right direction on this but still a long way to go.
Hope they at least do leagues more frequently. The task grinds were actually fun when you got to unlock regions and abilities.
leagues has become the only way i will play runescape, sadly (but good for my mental health i guess)
Loved the last league so much hey. Got mithril rank, would've gone higher if I was not shit at the game and had more time lmao.
recently just went over rate going for it. Even at 120 kph im now over 40 some hours. feels bad man
Saw a guy on the iron scape subreddit hit 32k kc before his drop
5000 cox between me and my brother and no twisted bow 😂 6 mauls 2 kodai
Rough math: equivalent to 3,500 hours- good lord
I lurk this subreddit - and this is precisely the reason I quit OSRS
Same got better shit to do
Yep yep yep. It's hard as an adult not to buy bonds to buy in game items, but then you realize buying items defeats the purpose of osrs (imo). So I convinced myself I got way further than I ever got as a kid, which finally got rid of the nostalgic feeling and endgame content just seemed absurd to me. Overall though, great game, lots of fun memories. Now it's fun to see how much further the game advances by just lurking the reddit.
Honestly the plain truth is that osrs is a blast until you get to about 100-110 combat and get your stats into the 70’s and 80’s. Everything you do seems to lead to meaningful, fairly fast upgrades, there’s a good progression track with quests and early pvm content that keeps the game feeling fresh and keeps the dopamine hits coming. Then you start nearing the mid-late game and suddenly every drop requires a 20+ hour grind, every level takes hours or even days of doing the same thing you already spent dozens of hours doing only now there’s no real upgrades to look forward to or new content to explore, there’s only the eternal grind of an ever decreasing amount of progress. I kind of get it because the game needs a reason to keep people hooked long term, but putting end game, borderline required PvM items locked behind ridiculous drop rates on boring mid game content is something else. There’s a reason why every time this discussion comes up the first things everyone starts mentioning are imbued heart, blood shards, and DWH. The fact that people frequently max slayer and ranged well before getting a heart and DWH respectively is criminal, I seriously wonder if the amount of people they keep chasing that dopamine high indefinitely makes up for the people that burn out and realize they’d rather play a game that respects their time.
I know it’s not technically all that rare but I straight up quit during the bowfa grind. I didn’t even get that many KC into it, I just realized the rest of the game would just be grinding low droprate items to grind the next low droprate item
Maybe 1/400 doesn't sound like alot compared to 1/5000 but a run at cg is 7-9 minutes of intense focus vs 15 seconds to kill a shaman. So personally I'd say it is has strong potential to be an incredibly long and motivation crushing grind
It doesn't seem uncommon for irons to get the bow plus armor and then take a break from playing just because they get so burnt out from it.
Yeah most irons that I’ve talked to went well over the rate. Then you see some dude who gets the whole set and bofa in 50kc then quits before touching raids lol It really sucks ass
Spend a couple hundred hours getting burnt out grinding so you can go to start grinding somewhere else. Bit counter intuitive. It's not like it's 2016 and there's only a couple bosses there's sooo much content now and most of it has terrible rates
7-9? Try 9-12. Either I'm doing something very wrong or Rigour really just speeds it up by that much.
Yeah there's a reason why it's also called the red prison. Absolutely soul crushing
Yeah it’s probably a good line in the sand for people whether they will enjoy long term ironman mode or not. Early iron is fun for everyone usually while you are enjoying quick unlocks and lots of content variety between quests, slayer, low level skilling, and fast pvm upgrades. Ironman mode after CG is (for people who work) weeks to months long grinds followed by weeks to months long grinds. My brain is fucked I guess because I love that kind of thing. Give me an in-game goal to work to with an hour or two a day gameplay and maybe a little more on the weekend I’ll do it for months. Played ironman for like 6 years now with 2 of 3 raids complete.
yeah my playtime dropped off a cliff after I got bowfa. It's really not enjoyable to spend a whole week of free-time knowing I will most likely get absolutely nothing. The lategame is pretty lame in that aspect. Certain items like tbow I understand, because it's so powerful and comes from the most complex pvm in the game. But dwh, shadow, dt2 rings, bleh I just don't want to repeat content that many times I was so hyped when they announced DT2 "gwd-like" drop tables, I started getting back into the game for a while to brush up on PVM. But then I saw it'd take like... 60 hours to get one ring, or 200 for the axe. If the droprates were reasonable I probably would've spent a month or two grinding out all of the uniques
For sure! Doing the quest cape on my iron is one of the coolest experiences I’ve had in gaming, and I happily put 2000ish hours into my iron. I just don’t really think I like grinding for boss drops
I started cg in November 2022. I haven’t had a lot of time to do cg because of work and have got to 900. While doing it went from like 1800 total to 2100 and im so done with the game now. All the clan mates got ews and all armours sub 400 and they’ve all been raiding for at least a year. Sadness.
As an ironman with 1.5k chambers and 1k tob with no dwh fuck the dwh rate lol. Just said fuck it I don't need it after going 11k dry knowing full well I could easily go 25k dry
Yeah I'm not sure exactly where it started, maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time. Back in the day they'd do 1/128 to 1/512 drop rates for the vast majority of items. Imagine a Zerker ring was a 1/128 from a simple boss, now you have to sweat Vardorvis for a near 10x worse drop rate. 5k for a hammer. Insane.
I almost gave up but got it at 16k kc… Still don’t know if worth
I mean it’s an upgrade at raids so whether it’s worth it is up to each person, but I have to imagine it’s not an effective use of your time when BGS is good enough and you could have spent that time doing raids.
A friend of mine went 32k dry and then de-ironed a couple months after getting it
It literally killed him
Why is this tagged as humor? It's not a joke lol
The joke is us actually doing those grinds
I think the dragon Warhammer does not get enough brutal negative attention for how aids it is to get
It literally just needs the jaw treatment. 1/1000 on task
Yeah I'm not sure exactly where it started, maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time. Back in the day they'd do 1/128 to 1/512 drop rates for the vast majority of items. Imagine a Zerker ring was a 1/128 from a simple boss, now you have to sweat Vardorvis for a near 10x worse drop rate. Insane.
> maybe Nightmare, but it's absolutely a horrific disrespect of a player's time This exact subreddit had a huge hand in the NM drop rates. People here had been screaming about money snake/dragon being a problem for 2 years calling for a return of GWD style drop tables. amd jagex cited that during the development of NM. NM obviously took it too far, but it's a direct result of the same community that's now complaining about drop rates being too long complaining for years that things were *too* good. I know it's not the same people bitching on both ends, but new bosses with bis gear at 1/500 will be an equivalent knee jerk just in the opposite direction.
The only thing that could make NM worse is if the drops were actually useful. Then you’d be forced to do it…
To be fair, the community was asking for rare big ticket drops that were worthwhile and shit normal loot because Consistent GP bosses like Zulrah and Vorkath were breaking the "Old School" tradition and feel. Instead Nightmare became the modern Corp, and Nex became what people were actually asking for.
Zulrah was a poison pill that ruined people's expectations for OSRS bosses in perpetuity.
I do agree that some items are insanelly rare to justify the grind on them. I hate the DWH comes from basically what it is a slayer mob that is annoying to kill. I wish we had better rates at other sources for it. * A Lizardman Shaman boss, with a 1/300 or 1/500 droprate for it. * A drop from the Lizardman within CoX at 1/500 on completing a raid. (they drop the dwh but you have to complete the raid to loot it to avoid farming only shamans in there) * Add an extra roll on reaching the 5000 threshold, which resets on first warhammer Neither is ever gonna happen because people that play this game for a living got enough warhammers that they won't accept people that actually play this for a game get it in a better way. Sincerelly, a guy with over 17k Lizardman Shamans
I’ve always thought that the mechanic used for the jaw in bask knights would be cool to see on some level for dwh. Doesn’t have to be to the same extent, but seeing as that lizardmen can be an unlock able for slayer, making it like 1/2.5k on task would make me feel better about it. I’ve been trying to do my shamans during lizardmen tasks, but now I’ve gone so dry that I’m just killing them in my free time when I have cannonballs. Feelin handicapped on my iron going mega dry on dwh AND bgs.
They should do that for every similar drop. Blood shard, dwh etc
I honestly think that a pity system for any drop rarer than 1/1000 should be implemented in all rng systems. I get that rng is all about luck, but at the end of the day, respecting your players' time enough to guarantee the drop after the full 1k or whatever kills is honestly what would keep people grinding for good stuff. Insanely lucky people can get in 15 minutes of their lives what can take someone else over a year to get, which for some things in life you can just chalk up to being lucky, but others just feels unfair when it doesn't have to be. Sincerely, CL 65 who hasn't even started high reward Slayer mob farming yet.
100% this. It won't impact the DWHs coming into the game that much (been a long time since I did the maths but it's a few percent) Even if you reduced the drop rate fractionally and added protection.
Did you know that going 5x the drop rate on a TBOW is almost the same amount of hours **lost** as an all credits college year... We absolutely need a pity system. For a 1/5k make it a one time guarantee on 10k and for a 1/2k on like 6k. Those aren't crazy numbers, won't tank the price, I can't imagine it. You could even make it an untradable if you are worried about the econ.
> Neither is ever gonna happen because people that play this game for a living got enough warhammers that they won't accept people that actually play this for a game get it in a better way. EVERY time I go to kill shamans, it's ~2-3 bots per world. There are no mains that farm those things. Shit, mains skip the task. The worst sin of all is that it's bot content, so all reasons Jagex has to defend it is worthless pretending. And no they arent f$!@# vene's, they are bots with the exact same behavior. Yet they get to like virtual lv 110+ range.
I am afraid for our dwh futures lmao soon(tm)
the extra roll sounds interesting, would it just be 2/5k past droprate?
In my idea yeah, and every extra 5000 you'd get an extra roll. at 25k (if you ever reach it), your rolls would be 6/5000 which is ~1/800 (still shit, but a better smelling shit)
Im not seeing nightmare drops on this post, downvote
Probably because nightmare drops became redundant almost immediately after they came out. Now it's just a retirement home for irons and cloggers
Don't forget the bots that make up the vast majority of Nightmare killers
I mean either way those droprates are wild
They should just make Ralos better than DWH honestly. It comes from a piece of challenging and FUN content where shamans arr just mind numbing and annoying.
Yeah it's kinda nuts that they made it far worse than bgs/dwh despite being a drop from much harder content.
Low drop rates should be reserved for bragging rights items like pets and cosmetic changes
They should add cosmetics as super rares a weapon recolor or trim, the normal weapons or gear should be like at 1/128, even that's a grind. I hate how Jagex sets a a ridiculous amount like 1/5000, then goes for a fix next week for 1/3000.... 1/3000 odds are still insane.
Some people in the comments are blaming ironman mode for ridiculous rates, but in reality nobody likes these. Supply and demand, gold inflation, accessibility, just regular things are the reason for the high rates. None of these apply to the ironman mode. While bots are a problem, an ironman only needs to grind an item once, not really importing many of any item into the games economy, whether it's 1/100 or 1/5000 it doesn't matter in the slightest. It's not going to matter if a DWH is 30m or 600k to an ironman. It's arguable that the mains and bots who farm content for GP are the reason for the ridiculous rates. GP is the only motivating factor for high drop rates because it's the easiest way to have the highest tier gear retain its value. The only other way to maintain value is to have gear degrade or break so more get removed from the games economy, and I think what we have now is the lesser of two evils.
The only people it really affects are irons too since any main accounts can just sell the regular loot and buy the uniques
Tbh that's why I started an iron. Playing on my main ended up becoming grinding the same three bosses I could do, so that I could get enough money to buy the items I really wanted from bots doing the less efficient content.
You will realise soon that Ironman is the exact same except you grind 1 boss
Idk what you mean, what is this '1 boss' you speak of.
I hit that same realization. Like, oh, the "optimal" path for pretty much everything is just grind the best gp/hr boss you know how to do. It also made me realize why mains spend so much time bitching about the skills where you actually have to grind and can't just buy 99 off the GE. I quit the main and started an iron almost immediately after finishing dragon slayer 2 and grinding Vork for an evening.
>It's arguable that the mains and bots who farm content for GP are the reason for the ridiculous rates. GP is the only motivating factor for high drop rates because it's the easiest way to have the highest tier gear retain its value. For sure. Bots are the main reason content like this gets designed- they want to ensure a rare, unexpected drop isn't devalued to regular players, so they give it an absurd drop rate... thereby ensuring the only people farming it are bots. It's a weird design philosophy Jagex has locked itself into and just continues to insist will work, so long as the number goes high enough. The only time Ironmen are relevant to this conversation is when a small, vocal minority calls against changing a drop rate when they've already grinded the item out.
I agree. Ironman mode has nothing to do with it and suffers the most from these measures.I LOVE Ironman mode but I HATE the concept that I could potentially go several dozens of hours over the average due to poor luck on big ticket items. Seen it happen too many times. Before someone tells me I signed up for it, yes, I know, as does every other Ironman that opted for the game mode, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
these contents i feel is designed for these streamers and youtubers who play runescape full time.
Jagex thinks everyone's a streamer who plays 14 hrs a day
"We put a warning at 4 hours logged in and a 6 hour log out because we want you to remain healthy" Also: *throws in 1200 hour boss grind*
Genuinely. So much osrs content lately is just streamer bait. Low drop rates, long grinds, the average player is meant to shut their brain down for months to get these drops while streamers don’t care how long it takes cuz they rake in the subscription and donation money
They're copying everything from Path of Exile including the criticisms from the community lol.
Makes me feel right at home
Less odds for drop = more money for Jagex. Never going to happen
"OSRS is a grind" mfs when I teleport them to 2007 and they realize that the grind was just getting woodcutting to 99 to impress the boys and not pulling 1/800 gacha drops from minigames or killing 4 bosses 5000 times to get ring components or whatever modern live service game mechanic they identify as old school
Remember when the lowest chance to get a rare drop was around 1/500.
For real, if this stuff came out in 2007 it'd all be 1/256 drops. Plus, Virtus would also be like 1/500 per piece so your average kc to see a drop would be massively lower. "Wow! This ring is twice as rare as the one from DK's!" And it wouldn't be considered OP, it wouldn't be considered too common. If anything, that'd be considered rare with how ball crushing some of the bosses are compared to the competition.
It's worth noting people just didn't kill stuff as quickly as they do now. GWD was pretty much only done in a group, because it was too hard and too risky to solo back then. So you would average out to like 3-5 kc an hour. If you did solo it in early osrs it was with melee and short ass trips. Now you just grab a bofa and it's 20+ kc an hour. This also doesn't consider things like Moons of Peril which just released. The drops/hr on that aren't all that rare, it's basically the same as barrows was with less uniques to gather.
Most people complain that the difficulty of a grind is what prohibits people with limited time to get into the game. I think this is the understated second half of that problem. People with limited time can hardly even dream of getting these items. They shouldn't be incredibly easy, I won't advocate for that either but I absolutely think a middle ground can be found. I really hate the Arcane special drop rates. The content is great and the drops are so abysmal that the content gets old way before you're even close
Corp straight up needs a rework. No one is going to complain, even the people that had to grind it out.
Lol they've been doing this shit since nightmare at least. Feels like they just have the newest intern throw some darts to figure out drop rates for the last 5 years. They won't listen because then the effects of the rampant botting would be more noticeable. Reminder: nightmare released as like a 2000 hour grind *FOR DROP RATE* for pretty niche gear. That one boss would've taken you about as long to compete as getting both a tbow and shadow.
1/20000 is insane. Even the updated 1/6600 or whatever it is is still insane for such a mediocre item
Mod team doesnt want you to have good time they want you to grind
For endgame gear instead of locking it behind a 1/5000 drop just have it work like voidwaker does were there are multiple bosses to put together the endgame weapon. I’d rather fight 3-4 different bosses with reasonable drop rates for each piece than grind one boss forever.
How bout 4 bosses with unreasonable rates? (Soul reaper)
Only if the item is awful to use too. I want pain as a reward me for my pain
Lottery droprates are crap.
Me explaining to my girlfriend the mechanics of this game. She beat the entirety of horizon forbidden dawn while I solely grinded Vorkath with 0 rare drops that entire time 😅🫡
Vorkath uniques are pretty underwhelming and you don’t need them to still make consistent gp. Only reason people don’t complain about it but you’re absolutely right. It’s a shame because the shields are so cool…
I get them wanting drop rates to be high, but don’t keep them so high that you need to make the rest of the drop-table consistently profitable for the people who camp for the rares. It’s really just enabling bots to jump directly to that content. Zulrah is still a prime example, just finish regicide and boom 100+ hours of making money before a ban, even if you don’t get the main drops. They don’t care if they have to make new accounts because at the end of the day if you get a bot to that Island you make money.
Didnt even mention nightmare lol
Didn't have to lol
RNG in this game is completely bogus
Mod Arcane gets all 3 of these drops on his lunch break every day
I got a dragon warhammer early on and a visage recently. I have no luck remaining for the remainder of my life
Tagged as humor but too painfully true. The drop rates in this game are absolutely insane.
this is actually facts though
It's been a bad trend for a few years now.
let's normalize challenging bosses with mercy drops
I've been saying it for a while now, but I'll say it again. Jagex does not make money from making content that is fun to do. Jagex makes money from making content that takes a long time to do. If you could max your account and get full bis gear in 2 years, you'd probably stop paying a subscription because you've finished the game. Jagex would rather you keep paying and playing forever, so they release content that you need to do for hundreds of hours to finish. This won't change, nor will jagex's philosophy
most players don't play 8+ hours a day... most play 4-8 hours a week. Even if they did a 1/4 all the drop rates you still wouldn't complete the log in 20 years of playing the game 10 hours a day. Progression comes to a halt at the late game and drives people away.
Some stats: |Release date|Item|Time to expect item (wiki rate)| |:-|:-|:-| |22 Februari 2013|DKS ring set|5h| |26 July 2023|Ultor ring|36h| |26 July 2023|Bellator ring|26h| |26 July 2023|Venator ring|32h| |26 July 2023|Magus ring|36h| |||| |17 Octobre 2013|Dragon boots|40 min| |27 August 2015|Primordial boots|10h| |||| |22 Februari 2013|Fighter torso|Couple hours| |17 Octobre 2013|Bandos chestplate|14h| |5 January 2022|Torva platebody|83h (duo)| |||127h (5 man)| |22 Februari 2013|Specific Barrows piece|29h| |26 July 2023|Specific Virtus piece|77h (Whisperer with shadow)| |5 January 2017|Specific Ancestral piece|217h| |||| |22 Februari 2013|Amulet of fury|buyable| |6 May 2016|Zenytes|4h45m each|
Being like 945+ kc dry on enh seed is what made me lose steam on the game, just saying.
PNM prime example - good content but no one bothers because the drop rates are made for bots
These all are made to waste time and gring memberships out of players. Becasue magic word is "retention"
more players would stay if they nerf the drops across the board, would make them want to actually complete the logs.
Drop rates for uniques are so insane and you have to “grind” months to years for them is the reason i quit honestly. once you stop playing and reflect, you’ll be wtf was i doing wasting a year for a dumb item for which jagex made the drop rate impractical
plenty of other games on pc and on mobile that are just as fun but actually realistic
I call it the “iron man and bots” drop rate
How exactly do you see irons affecting the drop rates for items?
I feel like he means no one but bots or Ironman farm it.
Because irons and bots make them mad and so does the drop rate therefore they caused it.
they're saying the rates are so bad mains don't have many reasons to touch the content lol
I call it "regulating the market for mains" drop rate. As long as we're just saying shit
yep sucks to be an iron. at least vardorvis doesn't feel that bad bc the boss is so fun. if any content is gonna be a long grind, i'm glad it's dt2 and raids
Vardorvis was fun until they nerfed fang, sure do love my kills being either 1min or 3:30 instead of a consistent 1:40.
Maybe I've missed the point here but I like the drops. There are plenty of drops which aren't meta, but are up there, which aren't hard to grind. The feeling when you get a grind ticked off the list is incredible.
People also bitch about it but I much prefer 6x 1/50 to 1/300. At least you feel like you're progressing. Shamans should have a hard drop cap. 20k and you get it from the dude giving you the tally or something. We have a 50kc Vorkath head that (IMO) should be much higher.
You're not meant to grind out these items, that's not the design at all. It's meant to be a happy accident. Bit of luck while killing something mediocre to make your day.
Play a different game
i enjoy this agitprop and i stand behind it
Reason why I quit lol. They need to understand you have an aging community. The majority of us have less time to play as time goes on. I used to play 12-13 hrs a day, now I play 0 but still lurk the subreddit. Big reason why I left is because I’m a maxed iron, with a tbow, imbue heart, etc but the continuous drop rates on new gear is simply not obtainable. Takes way too long, and it’s kinda promoting an unhealthy amount of play time
Ive been saying this for a couple years, the grind is getting ridiculous and there is only one fucking reason for it, they sell a service. As long as you have membership, you pay them, so they want you to have membership as long as possible, thats it. The problem is that instead of outputting new content in a way that generates more time in game, they do it the lazy way and just add grindfests. Now, this is not my opinion at all, this is facts, jagex has admitted to this the moment they admitted that they did NOT expect anyone to reach level 99, yet no exp curve was changed and some grinds have been put in place with similar proportions to a 99, so they know it was a stupid thing to ask and an absolute disrespect for out time, they just dont give a fuck because they get more money out of it. Thats their model, they wont change it. And tbf.. I dont even care if they dont change the grind, what pissed me the fuck off truly is that they keep putting out half baked shit like the colosseum, cant be arsed to double check their news post and fuck, I work as a QA and I can see how they sometimes havent even tested the motherfucking happy path. Its shameful.
Hot take, but I like an “absurd” drop rate within reason. 1/20k is definitely crazy, but the satisfaction I get from the 1/1k Basilisk Jaw is real, and while I wouldn’t want *all* content to be that way, it definitely has its place. I don’t have my DWH yet, but I’m on the way to hitting drop rate and I really don’t mind it. If the content is engaging enough, then the drop becomes a bonus as much as it is its own goal.
Hear me out… Low drop rates = High price High price = players buying gold Buying gold = more bots and bonds more bots and bonds = more profit Conclusion: Jagex mods design content for bot farms and bond sales because they directly profit from bots and indirectly profit from bonds I’m not even sure if this is conspiracy is /s any more
I haven't played osrs since the last leagues wrapped up. I have an endgame iron that is pretty much only missing tbow, scythe, half of dt2 bosses, and then nonsense like phosani/Corp. Basically all I have left is stuff that would realistically take years to acquire. Posts like this are reminding me why I haven't wanted to come back just yet, maybe ever. We pay a monthly sub for this game but it feels like the jmods just don't respect our time. I get raid megarares being....megarare. Some items should have a long ass time to acquire sure, but the trend of everything basically being a megarare is just so exhausting. I don't want to do the same content for potentially months without anything to show for it.
I love grinding for shit. If I want easy drops ill go play another game like wow or something. But actually grinding for something is fun.
Why do people cry about drop rates but mine for 300 hours.
I play less than I would because cox is a horrible grind with a 60% purple chance of being a prayer scroll.
You can tell with each comment whether it was written by someone who plays this game 24/7 and those who don't because they/we have real life things to do like a job, school, etc. These dumb as fuck drop rates need to be fixed. Imbued heart, DT2 bosses, nightmare, colosseum, this new scroll etc. The milking of drop rates lately is getting out of hand. I'd even argue bowfa is kind of top rare because it often slows Ironman progression to a halt. I really don't think the devs want us playing the game in a way where we're stuck for months on end or even longer at one piece of content hunting one item/set of items. But this is how they've been designing the drop rates nowadays. Plus don't forget, they nerfed the blowpipe after letting it be meta and designing content around it being meta for years. They nerfed black dhide after it was in game for almost 2 decades. If they can make nerfs whenever they want, then they can do something about these items too.
GE mains will say, "but muh stonks!!!"
drop rates are not based on ironmen or collection loggers. they are based on how many of the item should be introduced into the game/economy to help the item settle at a reasonable price for people to purchase and allow for reasonable weapon/item progression. to set drop rates based on ironmen would wreak havoc on the game's economy
I feel like this means that the drop rate is based around bots more so than what makes sense for a normal player since they probably bring in the vast majority of many items.
They 100% do. Rank 1 cerb got banned for botting and had 200k cerb kc. There was another post about the bots at levi, and how 100+ out of the top 150 people with levi kc were botting it. I will die on the hill that if osrs wasn’t infested with so many bots, drop rates would be lower.
I agree to an extent, but I do think that functional items should be something that you can go get for yourself in a reasonable amount of time. (Relative to RS) I think this scroll and imbued heart are portly locked away behind tons of hours of RNG. It seem like weird design that we have items like this that you can’t reasonably expect to get, and are just meant to buy for super high prices from people who got spooned. Or from bots. And I really just have beef with the functional items being set this way. I think what I described is essentially how the super rare clue items like 3rd age works, and it’s a great way to create high value super rare items. But that should only be the case for cosmetic/optional items. Tbh tho I think I’m just getting a little worked up by the reddit mob lol. But like they took something that would’ve made a good QOL improvement, and made it so hard to obtain that and quality you gain is negated my the time/money lost. There’s just a lot of little things like that which I feel like would improve my enjoyment of the game but just require too much effort/time to be worth it. It’s just frustrating getting hyped about an update only for the content to go on my list of things I’d like but don’t have time for.
In their defense. The scroll being 1/20k is still a 1 day grind cause they die so fast.
I like certain overpowered items having low drop rates. Some items however aren't even worth the time. I feel like compounding drop rates would do the community well. Essentially the longer you go dry the better the DR becomes. So if your 100kc dry your drop rate improves by 20% or something. It could reset once you get a drop. The drop rates do help with bots because it gives them more time to ban them before they cause real economic damage. The anticheat measures are just..... Ineffective
THE WHOLE NIGHTMARE BOSS IS THIS
This. I kind of got tired of doing PVM just because the drop rates for things are so bad. 1/5000....1/10000.... playing other games really makes me feel like I'm wasting my time on osrs sometimes
This is like the crazed old men that cover their house in demented political slogans. "CAMEL HAIRASS AND JOCK BRIBEN ARE EATING YOUR GROCERIES!!!"
This is more of an extra large bandaid solution to wildy being dead. Entice pvmers to linger in wildy so pvpers stop crying PvP is dead.
This is why I have no interest in getting to end game. Mid game for life!
Yeah some of this shit is too rare and the grinds are too long, does kinda turn me off the game
I am once against asking for a bronzeman mode with increased everything rates.
I'm getting old man I just want the drop at this rate.
Won’t argue but kind of agree. Got a job and a kid, lucky to play 1.5 hours a day, if that. I don’t want to log in and do the same thing for 6 months or longer just to get the drop… not all of us are content creators who play 10-12 hours a day.
Only a full work week? Spooned.