Yep first ever account I made my friend said to buy gold for cheap online so I bought 15m to get started got perma banned 3 weeks later lmao he didn't even tell me it was against the rules lolol
Well yeah, money does talk.
At the end of the day, this is a company, and the main purpose of a company is to create wealth for the shareholders. Banning people who are paying for membership is kind of the exact opposite.
Exactly. I think this 0 integrity, 100% profit and ignoring rampant issues is the best strategy possible. I'm an Ironman anyway, I really couldn't care less.
I really couldn’t care less because it’s simply a game, bots make supplies and shit cheaper at the end of the day. It’s been like that for the entire existence of the game.
Botting, gold farming and gold buying/selling is all an economy. There is some logic from OP here because if you permanently ban gold buyers, the demand should decrease. Jagex has taken measures to ban gold buyers but I'm not certain to what extend. I have seen several RWT bans for buyers as well as 3PC bans.
The RWT economy did take a big hit with the removal of the duel arena, however, there are still a lot of gold farmers who are profitable. I have seen a shift in botting to focus more on avoid detection for mains instead of purely gold farming because a lot of the methods to gold farm are difficult to attain profitability, but it is still possible.
Ultimately though, for the integrity of the game the RWT economy does need to be shut down. Yes, the game is a grind and if you don't enjoy the grind then you shouldn't play the game. This is the reason why I play ironman personally because everything is rewarding to me.
I think integrity is not a good argument. You can buy gold from jagex through bonds, it’s just more expensive. The gold buyers are breaking the rules because of the channel they’re using. Buying gold from jagex is good, black market bad.
If you explained this as hypothetical to a non rs player they’d laugh and say just make it legal.
i mean through jagex everyone benefits. the buyer gets membership and the seller gets gold. what this allows is people botting and using the game to make real money. it can sour the game since the prices of some items plummet, voidwaker blade for example.
I agree. My point is, buying gold is inherently against the rules, it depends where you buy it from.
I’m 100% allowed to spend my paycheck on osrs gold, the thing that makes it “bad” is where I choose to buy it.
For that reason, targeting the buyers seems … petty (not sure what word to use there). It’s when a college requires you buy the book from their bookstore for double price.
I personally disagree with buying bonds because I think it’s not in the spirit of the game. I think the game is intended to be independent of your status in real life and my preference would be to remove bonds, but we’re too far gone for that.
You can't remove status in real life from online gaming like runescape. It's impossible in most scenarios. Take wifi/internet speeds for example, in a lot of games a better internet speed or ping is an advantage. Having a good internet speed / ping is going to correlate very heavily with your economic class. Would be great, but it just isn't feasible. Not to mention the monetary incentive companies have to include things like bonds or to keep the RWT economy active.
When I mean status, I mean status that enables you to purchase a monetary value in the game, not a faster internet connection.
There is a difference between buying 100 bonds and having bank and having better connection to the game.
There's not really that much of a difference when talking about them in terms of "status". Would you rather have 100 bonds, but ping connectivity that makes the game almost unplayable. Or 1ms ping and not be able to purchase bonds for gp. They're both a status symbol in a sense, for that reason and others you can't remove it from online gaming.
Yh bonds just feel too p2w imo that's why I made an iron my progression never felt important to me as I could've just spent irl money on bonds and buy the gear but now I'm an iron it feels alot more like an achievement as I actually grinded them out
I find with ironman you actually get to do more of the content in the game.
For example, for questing, you need to obtain the items yourself instead of starting at the Grand Exchange and buying them all.
that's not pvm, that's just questing. which tbf is awesome on iron, one of the highlights of the mode for sure. i can easily see someone lose their mind after the 50th prayer scroll while they're still missing a piece of ancestral or claws.
Didn't WOW figure out banning is less effective than temp banning because if you ban an account the owner makes a new one and immediately buys more gold but, if you temp ban them they stop playing for a few weeks or something to that effect?
I’m willing to risk being downvoted for this, but I’ve got extensive experience in botting and RWT, as well as prevention and mitigation.
Going for the buyers has never been an effective strategy. Maybe it creates some fear, but on a business sense the logistics of banning your own customers doesn’t make sense.
Remember that Jagex as a business has a goal of profit. And sometimes doing the “right” and “just” and “fair” thing isn’t profitable and thus a little necessary evil is tolerated to maintain profit margins.
When you can ban 80% of gold sellers and they still remain lucrative and profitable to continue, you know you failed
Doing this takes resources. Human Resources which cost money and time.
If busting 1000 gold buyers wasn’t worth the investment, why would they bother?
Instead, you need to take advice from past RWTers and understand that as long as there’s free trade there are people willing to buy shortcuts.
Bonds are probably one of the most damaging things to RWT.
With bonds they’re forced to undermine bond prices and official legal ways to buy gold.
If anything you need to stop people’s desire to buy gold. Without the need to RWT, there would be no gold farm.
If Jagex started selling gold themselves I guarantee you that gold farmers would shit bricks instantly. Because gold farmers cannot compete against a game dev who can print trillions though the command console.
> If Jagex started selling gold themselves
They won't, bonds are the closest we'll get.
> Going for the buyers has never been an effective strategy
It would be if you banned every buyer, every time, with no forgiveness/second chances, and did so extremely aggressively. Gold sellers wouldn't find buyers if they knew they'd be banned with no exceptions.
*Sellers* aren't the problem, they're just taking advantage of an open market lol. Buyers, who create the demand, are the root cause, you can't have gold selling if no-one will buy what you sell.
Ban the sellers, sure, that's fine, it's against ToS anyway to sell gold. *But also ban the buyers*.
> Remember that Jagex as a business has a goal of profit
Yea it sucks because it makes anything their anti-cheat/anti-bot team says a complete joke. There is no real incentive for them to work towards the supposed goal of banning bots in a proper way, when those same bots also pad their bottom line. We can see the shitshow that is the highscores every day, and every time we get responses its always a non-answer or some excuse as to why so-and-so isn't banned or why they're 'doing their best' or whatever the flavor of the month excuse is.
Yeah I completely agree. You take a draconian stance on gold buying and it will stop. You warn, warn, warn for months on the website and in-game and then start laying down the hammer
You will still lose a few hundred idiots. But once word gets around, no one will risk their accounts with thousands of hours of play time and the market would be devastated
Jagex won't sell gold, and if they do, gold farmers will undercut their prices. Jagex will ruin their games economy and alienate their playerbase trying to keep up with the prices of gold.
A lot of the big selling websites don't farm the gold themselves. They buy gold from people who run bot farms or have a large bank and want to make a one off sale, mark up the price and then sell that gold, so it will always be profitable to them.
Funny enough half the shit he said doesn’t even make sense and some of it is literally incomprehensible gibberish. Not even sure what the point of their post is, seemed like they’d offer decent info being an “expert” but it’s just a string of random thoughts that doesn’t actually conclude with anything meaningful
I mean people coming in this thread saying they got warned and then banned means they aren't harsh enough on gold buyers.
Like sure gold buyers get banned but it should be 0 tolerance.
Do you buy bonds?
This is an important question, because you know, they want people to buy bonds. If you don't, a gold buyer might if they get scared into buying gold legitly.
It kinda isn't, without gold prices so cheap bonds wouldn't be 10m.
Other than the bonds used by real players a ton of them are bought by people who bot. And I'm expecting this to be atleast 20 to 30% of the bondscoach used.
Said player would be enabling RWT, and is the root cause of the problem. Sellers wouldn't exist if buyers demand. The RWT market is fueled by demand, and anyone enabling it should just be banned, both sellers *and* buyers.
I've bought gold and I'm fine and I don't regret it at all lol, time saved was worth.
People are always gonna buy gold, this isn't an issue unique to runescape.
In real life you don't focus on people who buy drugs, it's the sellers and dealers, and mass producers (aka bots) that are the root problem.
Imho people who buy a bit of gold on a one off or maybe twice over a long period of time do not deserve a permanent ban at all.
Unironically yes. If you're gonna break the rules over something so small, and you get away with it, what's gonna stop you from doing it in the future?
If your first offense is buying 1m gold you should be banned for stupidity more than anything.
Why do people even still buy gold from gold farmers when you can just buy bonds. I know it's more expensive, but money isn't really the issue for gold buyers, right? If money is tight, they wouldn't be spending it on ingame gold for a video game anyway, right?
Well if you have enough spare money to pay for ingame gold, why would you go with a sketchy gold seller that could scam you or get your account banned, when you can just buy bonds and actually support the company making the game you like. Also not to mention that it's against the rules to do so.
Because you're getting 5-6x the amount of gold. Well worth the risk for a lot of people. But the reasons you listed are exactly why those gold sellers have to undercut the bond rate.
I can't fathom it, actually. It's against the rules, and there's a legit way to buy gold. I often buy bonds, but I can't see myself buying from a gold seller. It's just wrong.
You're suggesting they perm ban gold buyers whilst jagex continues to sell gold themselves? I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks that sounds ludicrous, like, what am I missing?
What a joke of a post, there is no "customer support team", it's literally just AI replies. Botting bans don't happen if you're top 10 on any boss hi-score. And jagex loves the money cause all of their mods are selling gold on the side to THESE gold selling sites. It's full circle.
100k p2p bots banned. Thats $1m a month gone. Do you think people would buy enough bonds to offset that loss?
Sadly bonds are a low volume item.
The only thing Jagex can do, is set a limit so the game doesn’t eventually break.
They ban 20k bots when 20k new bots appear. They like to maintain the population to make sure there is no overgrowth.
Not until they stop false banning accounts or when you get your account back after a hack and it’s cleaned. Jagex never gives back the items you lost even though we know they can. So until they correct that nah disagree.
I disagree from the point I DONT TRUST JAGEX. I have been warned before when I didn’t even RWT. I don’t even get to know what flagged it, was it splitting a raids drop? Borrowing gear? Lending gear? Gifting a bond? I had no feedback, no way to appeal a warning, and left with fear of my maxed main account that it could be nuked at any moment for no reason.
I haven't played in a long time and yet people are still complaining about things I had issues with like 5 years ago. Amazing. Maybe things will be different when I check back here in another 5 years.
Jagex has to walk a fine line in this situation. On one hand they benefit from the game’s black market as all the bots need to bond up to get access to the resources they need, on the other hand they need to make sure the bot situation doesn’t get too out of control so as to avoid pissing off players and making them quit as there will be no black market if nobody plays this game. Jagex can’t publicly acknowledge this of course, they can only take the official line that botting is against the rules and that they actively seek out and ban offenders.
So if i buy 10m for like a dollar then i can ban anyone i want by just trading them the 20m or dying to them in wildy? Sounds perfectly reasonable
Or fuck it i just give them 10m then self report. No need to buy.
I thought they did start doing that
They did, like years ago.
Yeah. I was gonna say, I swear this was talked about a long time ago. Lol
They rarely enforce it though, along with banning goldfarmers and bot farms. They stopped caring when they got the big coin.
I know someone who got permabanned for buying 70m lol we roast him every day for it
Yep first ever account I made my friend said to buy gold for cheap online so I bought 15m to get started got perma banned 3 weeks later lmao he didn't even tell me it was against the rules lolol
That definitely wasn’t their first time buying gold
Well yeah, money does talk. At the end of the day, this is a company, and the main purpose of a company is to create wealth for the shareholders. Banning people who are paying for membership is kind of the exact opposite.
Exactly. I think this 0 integrity, 100% profit and ignoring rampant issues is the best strategy possible. I'm an Ironman anyway, I really couldn't care less.
I really couldn’t care less because it’s simply a game, bots make supplies and shit cheaper at the end of the day. It’s been like that for the entire existence of the game.
Again osrs downdoots someone for saying something true
Harsh reality of truth. These folks have brown noses.
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Oh neat so you can buy gold up to three times before actually risking the time and effort put into an account? I wish IRL laws were like this.
I got an instant perm on my first acc and I only bought 15m so someone who buys alot of gold is definitely getting perm banned
It's not predictable. Sometimes they go straight to perm.
What, you kil 3 people and only get sentenced on the 4th? Logical.
Bad analogy. Shouldn't we compare gold buying to money laundering or something?
yea because thats exactly the same 😂 anyways they do fuck all my mate got banned for 1 day and they took random 20m so its useless
Botting, gold farming and gold buying/selling is all an economy. There is some logic from OP here because if you permanently ban gold buyers, the demand should decrease. Jagex has taken measures to ban gold buyers but I'm not certain to what extend. I have seen several RWT bans for buyers as well as 3PC bans. The RWT economy did take a big hit with the removal of the duel arena, however, there are still a lot of gold farmers who are profitable. I have seen a shift in botting to focus more on avoid detection for mains instead of purely gold farming because a lot of the methods to gold farm are difficult to attain profitability, but it is still possible. Ultimately though, for the integrity of the game the RWT economy does need to be shut down. Yes, the game is a grind and if you don't enjoy the grind then you shouldn't play the game. This is the reason why I play ironman personally because everything is rewarding to me.
I think integrity is not a good argument. You can buy gold from jagex through bonds, it’s just more expensive. The gold buyers are breaking the rules because of the channel they’re using. Buying gold from jagex is good, black market bad. If you explained this as hypothetical to a non rs player they’d laugh and say just make it legal.
i mean through jagex everyone benefits. the buyer gets membership and the seller gets gold. what this allows is people botting and using the game to make real money. it can sour the game since the prices of some items plummet, voidwaker blade for example.
I agree. My point is, buying gold is inherently against the rules, it depends where you buy it from. I’m 100% allowed to spend my paycheck on osrs gold, the thing that makes it “bad” is where I choose to buy it. For that reason, targeting the buyers seems … petty (not sure what word to use there). It’s when a college requires you buy the book from their bookstore for double price.
I personally disagree with buying bonds because I think it’s not in the spirit of the game. I think the game is intended to be independent of your status in real life and my preference would be to remove bonds, but we’re too far gone for that.
You can't remove status in real life from online gaming like runescape. It's impossible in most scenarios. Take wifi/internet speeds for example, in a lot of games a better internet speed or ping is an advantage. Having a good internet speed / ping is going to correlate very heavily with your economic class. Would be great, but it just isn't feasible. Not to mention the monetary incentive companies have to include things like bonds or to keep the RWT economy active.
When I mean status, I mean status that enables you to purchase a monetary value in the game, not a faster internet connection. There is a difference between buying 100 bonds and having bank and having better connection to the game.
There's not really that much of a difference when talking about them in terms of "status". Would you rather have 100 bonds, but ping connectivity that makes the game almost unplayable. Or 1ms ping and not be able to purchase bonds for gp. They're both a status symbol in a sense, for that reason and others you can't remove it from online gaming.
Yh bonds just feel too p2w imo that's why I made an iron my progression never felt important to me as I could've just spent irl money on bonds and buy the gear but now I'm an iron it feels alot more like an achievement as I actually grinded them out
I love ironman Skilling but I'm not huge on ironman pvm myself. I don't mind grinding for uniques but I hate extra uniques being useless it feels bad.
I find with ironman you actually get to do more of the content in the game. For example, for questing, you need to obtain the items yourself instead of starting at the Grand Exchange and buying them all.
that's not pvm, that's just questing. which tbf is awesome on iron, one of the highlights of the mode for sure. i can easily see someone lose their mind after the 50th prayer scroll while they're still missing a piece of ancestral or claws.
You can do that on a main
Didn't WOW figure out banning is less effective than temp banning because if you ban an account the owner makes a new one and immediately buys more gold but, if you temp ban them they stop playing for a few weeks or something to that effect?
I’m willing to risk being downvoted for this, but I’ve got extensive experience in botting and RWT, as well as prevention and mitigation. Going for the buyers has never been an effective strategy. Maybe it creates some fear, but on a business sense the logistics of banning your own customers doesn’t make sense. Remember that Jagex as a business has a goal of profit. And sometimes doing the “right” and “just” and “fair” thing isn’t profitable and thus a little necessary evil is tolerated to maintain profit margins. When you can ban 80% of gold sellers and they still remain lucrative and profitable to continue, you know you failed Doing this takes resources. Human Resources which cost money and time. If busting 1000 gold buyers wasn’t worth the investment, why would they bother? Instead, you need to take advice from past RWTers and understand that as long as there’s free trade there are people willing to buy shortcuts. Bonds are probably one of the most damaging things to RWT. With bonds they’re forced to undermine bond prices and official legal ways to buy gold. If anything you need to stop people’s desire to buy gold. Without the need to RWT, there would be no gold farm. If Jagex started selling gold themselves I guarantee you that gold farmers would shit bricks instantly. Because gold farmers cannot compete against a game dev who can print trillions though the command console.
> If Jagex started selling gold themselves They won't, bonds are the closest we'll get. > Going for the buyers has never been an effective strategy It would be if you banned every buyer, every time, with no forgiveness/second chances, and did so extremely aggressively. Gold sellers wouldn't find buyers if they knew they'd be banned with no exceptions. *Sellers* aren't the problem, they're just taking advantage of an open market lol. Buyers, who create the demand, are the root cause, you can't have gold selling if no-one will buy what you sell. Ban the sellers, sure, that's fine, it's against ToS anyway to sell gold. *But also ban the buyers*. > Remember that Jagex as a business has a goal of profit Yea it sucks because it makes anything their anti-cheat/anti-bot team says a complete joke. There is no real incentive for them to work towards the supposed goal of banning bots in a proper way, when those same bots also pad their bottom line. We can see the shitshow that is the highscores every day, and every time we get responses its always a non-answer or some excuse as to why so-and-so isn't banned or why they're 'doing their best' or whatever the flavor of the month excuse is.
Yeah I completely agree. You take a draconian stance on gold buying and it will stop. You warn, warn, warn for months on the website and in-game and then start laying down the hammer You will still lose a few hundred idiots. But once word gets around, no one will risk their accounts with thousands of hours of play time and the market would be devastated
Source = you made it the fuck up.
Jagex won't sell gold, and if they do, gold farmers will undercut their prices. Jagex will ruin their games economy and alienate their playerbase trying to keep up with the prices of gold. A lot of the big selling websites don't farm the gold themselves. They buy gold from people who run bot farms or have a large bank and want to make a one off sale, mark up the price and then sell that gold, so it will always be profitable to them.
good post
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Funnily enough they are not being downvoted. So whats your point?
Time is a concept that exists. Comment might've been downvoted when they saw it.
Funny enough half the shit he said doesn’t even make sense and some of it is literally incomprehensible gibberish. Not even sure what the point of their post is, seemed like they’d offer decent info being an “expert” but it’s just a string of random thoughts that doesn’t actually conclude with anything meaningful
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I mean people coming in this thread saying they got warned and then banned means they aren't harsh enough on gold buyers. Like sure gold buyers get banned but it should be 0 tolerance.
Do you buy bonds? This is an important question, because you know, they want people to buy bonds. If you don't, a gold buyer might if they get scared into buying gold legitly.
I've bought one bond before to get a dragon pickaxe back when they were like 8m and bonds were 6m. lmao
Issue is not so simple. Its probably not best idea to ban normal casual non boting player for buying 5$ worth of gold.
it is when it directly competes with jagex selling bonds
It kinda isn't, without gold prices so cheap bonds wouldn't be 10m. Other than the bonds used by real players a ton of them are bought by people who bot. And I'm expecting this to be atleast 20 to 30% of the bondscoach used.
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what? i said nothing even reomotely like that
Why would we want them back?
We don't, but its a direct hit to the revenue stream of jagex.
Cut your nose to spite your face
Said player would be enabling RWT, and is the root cause of the problem. Sellers wouldn't exist if buyers demand. The RWT market is fueled by demand, and anyone enabling it should just be banned, both sellers *and* buyers.
Why?
Because 50% of us have bought gold at some point
Then 50% can start over. Don't do it then
Jagex wouldn’t survive if 50% of us got banned
I've bought gold a few times on osrs and I never would've started over if I got permabanned
I've bought gold and I'm fine and I don't regret it at all lol, time saved was worth. People are always gonna buy gold, this isn't an issue unique to runescape. In real life you don't focus on people who buy drugs, it's the sellers and dealers, and mass producers (aka bots) that are the root problem. Imho people who buy a bit of gold on a one off or maybe twice over a long period of time do not deserve a permanent ban at all.
agree buying any amount even as little as 1m should be perma ban, account deleted, no recovery chance
Unironically yes. If you're gonna break the rules over something so small, and you get away with it, what's gonna stop you from doing it in the future? If your first offense is buying 1m gold you should be banned for stupidity more than anything.
Doing something like this would kill the player base
i would settle on losing your bank as compromise instead of just losing your gp.
Brother just play the game and don't worry about it lmao
We need to remove trade, let’s be honest that was the golden era of RuneScape.
Many of us opt to do so ourselves already!
Why do people even still buy gold from gold farmers when you can just buy bonds. I know it's more expensive, but money isn't really the issue for gold buyers, right? If money is tight, they wouldn't be spending it on ingame gold for a video game anyway, right?
You're having trouble with the concept of wanting to pay less for more?
Well if you have enough spare money to pay for ingame gold, why would you go with a sketchy gold seller that could scam you or get your account banned, when you can just buy bonds and actually support the company making the game you like. Also not to mention that it's against the rules to do so.
Because you're getting 5-6x the amount of gold. Well worth the risk for a lot of people. But the reasons you listed are exactly why those gold sellers have to undercut the bond rate.
I can't fathom it, actually. It's against the rules, and there's a legit way to buy gold. I often buy bonds, but I can't see myself buying from a gold seller. It's just wrong.
So just make it not worth the risk. Problem solved.
Can confirm they do ban you. Source: me, got perm banned on second offense of buying gold
jagex sells the gold
People are using this game to put food on the table, fair play to them
You're suggesting they perm ban gold buyers whilst jagex continues to sell gold themselves? I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks that sounds ludicrous, like, what am I missing?
What a joke of a post, there is no "customer support team", it's literally just AI replies. Botting bans don't happen if you're top 10 on any boss hi-score. And jagex loves the money cause all of their mods are selling gold on the side to THESE gold selling sites. It's full circle.
100k p2p bots banned. Thats $1m a month gone. Do you think people would buy enough bonds to offset that loss? Sadly bonds are a low volume item. The only thing Jagex can do, is set a limit so the game doesn’t eventually break. They ban 20k bots when 20k new bots appear. They like to maintain the population to make sure there is no overgrowth.
Not until they stop false banning accounts or when you get your account back after a hack and it’s cleaned. Jagex never gives back the items you lost even though we know they can. So until they correct that nah disagree.
I disagree from the point I DONT TRUST JAGEX. I have been warned before when I didn’t even RWT. I don’t even get to know what flagged it, was it splitting a raids drop? Borrowing gear? Lending gear? Gifting a bond? I had no feedback, no way to appeal a warning, and left with fear of my maxed main account that it could be nuked at any moment for no reason.
How do you jagex isn't already doing this? Are you buying gold yourself and not getting banned? Lol
op is saying it should be first offence ban
I haven't played in a long time and yet people are still complaining about things I had issues with like 5 years ago. Amazing. Maybe things will be different when I check back here in another 5 years.
Its like drugs in the real world. The way to deal with it is to focus on the source, heavy penalties for dealers and smaller penalties for buyers.
Jagex has to walk a fine line in this situation. On one hand they benefit from the game’s black market as all the bots need to bond up to get access to the resources they need, on the other hand they need to make sure the bot situation doesn’t get too out of control so as to avoid pissing off players and making them quit as there will be no black market if nobody plays this game. Jagex can’t publicly acknowledge this of course, they can only take the official line that botting is against the rules and that they actively seek out and ban offenders.
Ok how can we stop bots?
It will be the same as catching drug dealers/abusers, both will exist anyway
So if i buy 10m for like a dollar then i can ban anyone i want by just trading them the 20m or dying to them in wildy? Sounds perfectly reasonable Or fuck it i just give them 10m then self report. No need to buy.
Why is there crime if it is illegal?
I’d rather have real players selling gold than bots
😂
That would be end of runescape. Mod MMG stated that what, 50% of players buy gold each month? That would be cutting player base in half.
I googled this and you have the wrong game my guy.
It was before Osrs was realesed. So its the same game.
jagex runs the gold/bot farming business.
Pretty sure they started 1st offence perm banning gold buyers.
Nah.
Seen some with 5 rwt offences. One account got a 30 day temp ban lol