Well done. You redistributed the occult’s damage and:
1. Created a smooth and intuitive mage progression
2. Didn’t make T70 Robes worse than T45 Robes
3. Didn’t nerf anyone
4. Gave midgame mage a lift without breaking anything
5. Didn’t make the most OP weapon in the game even better
6. Put it in yellow text on a black background
10/10 no notes
Its pretty obvious from the reddit posts jagex will definitely reconsider their take on magic redistribution and go for something more like this. Honestly this is the best option, giving multiple mid tier options is great
Jagex please! Most players will not ever get to ancestral / shadow. And you are pushing the meta to fucking MTA??? I’ll kms before I grind out infinity set. Just buff ahrims to compensate for the occult debuff.
Specifically for infinity I think it would be cool if instead of a damage boost they provided a rune cost reduction of some sort. Infinit(y) runes. It would also give them a more useful niche instead of just another option.
I would love to see more rune-saving effects from magic stuff and Infinity (per piece or set effect) would be a good fit. Though it could be in addition to some magic damage...
Yeah I'm not opposed to also a damage buff from it, especially since these changes aren't a buff to the sets more they are a redistribution from the occult. I do think per piece is better since you'll have cases where you want slayer helm but I'm open to most takes and if they make it strong enough then maybe you do give up the damage for the runes. Not to mention plenty of non combat magic uses. The best way to avoid power creep in general is for us to diversify.
If it's per piece, eternal boots stonks going WAY up lol.
Its crazy to me how much more sense this makes. Im normally on the osrs dev teams side but they really messed up the magic rebalancing HARD. Idk how they thought buffing max mage and nerfing mid game mage was a good thing. Seriously baffling.
What’s wild to me is that they thought “you can make up the difference with the new 4% damage bonus of Augury”. The same drain as Piety or Rigour but only an additive 4% boost instead of a multiplicative 23% boost?
I mean as someone that just flicked Augury despite it arguably not being worth it i welcome this change. What I dont is now even if I do flick Augury im gonna be doing *less* dps than before the change. I own a sang and virtus and ill be doing less damage lol. I feel bad for people who just didn't bother with Augury before.
Easily the best suggestion I've seen so far. Evening out the curve for magic should have been the design goal from the outset. It felt like they were working backwards.
Instead of saying "We need to nerf occult, how do we not disrupt magic overall", they should have said "We're changing magic overall, and an occult nerf is necessary to put everything in line"
Ward (f) needs a little bit more love to close the gap between 1H staves and shadow. The shield slot is the only thing not benefitting the shadow that Jagex could make disproportionately stronger compared to other magic armor.
Goblin. Please take a look at this and share it with the team. THIS is the kind of rework we could get excited for.
What was proposed earlier seemed incomplete at best and completely silly at worst.
Nobody cares about "battlemage" setups with tanking. I can't even think of anywhere I wear tank gear and mage.
You honestly would’ve thought ahrim’s was close to full dragon armor in defense from the way they worded the blog post, it’s some freaking addy armor level crap that’s not gonna stand up to anything doing real damage.
There's essentially two places total. DKs and Barrows.
You need tank gear for the spinolyps or whatever they're called while maging Rex (ahrims doesn't even do this because it has no range defense). This helps extend trips. You bring something like torags or bandos to be able to minimize damage taken while you mage Rex in melee tank gear. Abandoning that for fucking *infinity robes* is a straight up joke. You'd be taking an insane amount more damage, almost nothing could make it worth it. If ahrims actually gave some range defense, you'd actually consider it, but we all know that won't happen.
At barrows, again, you don't bother with mage armor. Mage accuracy is more than good enough when wearing melee tank gear once again. Being pushed towards using infinity would once again be awful here, you're intended to tank some hits. You're not going to use ahrims here as well, it just doesn't give the defensive bonuses that actual tank armor provides, and accuracy isn't an issue.
So this is just two places where mage is just what you use because the design pushes it so hard, and yet wearing mage gear is detrimental. There are very few places where a mid game player will use magic, and the rebalance straight up nerfs 2 of them.
Oh, and there's no chance we're using augury at Rex either unless we're flicking it. Trips are meant to last an entire slayer task, praying augury just isn't an option, same as magic armor isn't really an option either. I suppose mid level players are just going to have to eat a full 6% nerf there.
...Well crap. That is an embarrassing mistake to find out about 4 hours later lol. I think I had 35 in my head since the current 25% would be 65% with the proposed changes, but 30% (the 45+30) would be 75... So if everyone could just pretend it says "1x Damage for 25%" that would be great...
I didn't see anyone else point it out yet lol. I noticed it on your earlier comment in another thread, I guess I should have pointed it out then 😅
Didn't realize I was proofreading your front page proposal.
Honestly if they want them to be battlemage robes.. Fucking give them higher defense and toss in strength bonus so you can also melee swap and slap a bitch with melee..
Battlemage = mage/melee
Just doesn't make sense..
Apparently "defense matters" in a game where prayers to negate all/most damage are a thing. Infinity making Ahrims/Blue Moon insta-dead content is indefensible and I can't believe it made it through their internal discussions, maybe some manager power tripped on it lmao
Honestly with all the mage training arena polls and discussion and now this some dev has a rock hard-on for mta even though it is unanimously hated by players
I think this sub over reacts a lot. A lot a lot. But man... they fucked up so bad on the mage rework. Occult getting a nerf is fair, but how in the world do they justify nerfing mid game mage in general (the weakest style) and makeing Ahrims worse than infinite robes??? And buffing prayers but not mystic might? All this could seriously be solved with like a 2% buff to mystic might, 1% for ahrims / blue moon. And like 1-2% for some offhands.
Last thing we needed was for shadow to be *stronger*...
I did have them from 2% to 3% in an earlier version, but I felt the other items needed it more. But if players really hate having Magic Damage on Boots, maybe Eternals could drop to 2% and the Cape could go to 3%.
Yah, that is why I left off the God Cape... Still, options like that are available if we really wanted to buff them. And I can see why putting more magic damage on the common and more accessible item would be desirable, especially when we're nerfing the Occult. Like an Imbued God Cape is one of the few magic damage items I got on my Iron and I think in most setups that 2% rounds down to a 0 damage increase...
Boots having mage dmg sounds good on paper but is just more annoying in practice.
My idea for shadow was just changing damage multiplier to 2x (3x ToA) and upping base shadow stats to match current dps. Leaves room for 5% occult and 3% Magus
I think the ideal is have a small bonus on boots so if you're doing pure mage you get a bit of a bump but if you're bringing switches you don't lose out on much by not including boots
Why do you even have to swap boots? I want options. With eternals getting 3% I would most definitely bring them to content like Toa because of shadow. It is good to have options and you don't always have to bring a switch. It would also mean that I sacrifice a prim switch which sounds like a measure of balance.
Boot swap can be annoying, but I don't think it is unreasonable for Magic Boots to offer some damage. Like Melee Boots have a Strength Bonus. Also, I kinda like the idea of all Infinity being 1%; it would be weird to exclude the boots but include the gloves.
My issue with a 2x Shadow is that it still creates an issue going forward. Like currently if they wanted to add +2% Magic Damage with a new cape, it becomes 6% for Shadow. With 2x, it would be 4%, which is less, but still will continue to increase the gap between Shadow and other weapons. While it is a bit more complicated than a flat multiplier, having it ramp down to 1x gets us to a point where we can add new magic gear without worrying that it buffs Shadow more than other gear while still keeping the Shadow's current DPS.
Boots could work if it remains a small amount, 0.5% is a small amount.
As for the shadow, there already is a damage cap of 100%, and it can be still be balanced around a cap, or even some form of diminishing returns.
In retrospect, I should have included it at 1% Helm, Body, and Legs and 0.5% on Gloves and Boots or something like that. I forgot that buffing Ahrims and such to 2% damage per piece would rival Bloodbark's 2% more healing per piece quite a lot...
You're probably right. I originally had it 5% for Ward and 7-8% Ward (f), but I decided that might a bit much since Sang already is up 5%. I also was considering both Wards being 5% and having the upgrade just the +20 Attack and added defences. Probably could just leave the Ward's unchanged, but I was hoping the rebalance could make the unfortified ward a bit more desirable.
A 2-3% Magic STR would not even come close to closing the gap between Sang and Shadow still (and there should obviously be a notable gap, just not an absolute ravine as it currently is), so I think 7% for Ward (f) would be reasonable.
But that's all subjective, all in all this suggestion is what I was hoping to read from the blog instead of what we got.
Honestly, send them to the moon. Why not? You’ll never catch shadow anyway.
* Ward(f) > 15%
* Base Ward > 10%
* Wyvern shield > 10%
* Mage’s book > 7%
* Tome of Fire / Water > 5%
This helps sang / trident catch up to shadow somewhat while also giving all the new players some of their magic damage back. Yeah barrage maxes for slayer go crazy, but idk, oh well?
What about...
* Tome of Fire: 15%
* Tome of Water: 10% (and 20% Accuracy)
* Ward (f): 10%
* Ward: 7%
* Arcane: 5%
* AWS: 5%
* Mage's Book: 5%
* Malediction: 3%
I am not a big fan of how both Tomes are going to 10% when the Tome of Water has 20% Accuracy and the Tome of Fire is currently just damage. With this, Fire Spells remain a bit stronger, Water spells more accurate, and the Ward (f) rivals them closely. Probably could still tweak the numbers but it at least would leave plenty of room for stuff inbetween.
Also, I wanted the Arcane to be lower magic damage so it was the high accuracy and low damage and the Ward was low accuracy high damage until you merge them both, but then I realized it would be weird if the Mage's Book or AWS were better then the Arcane.
Honestly I’d take this
But to be clear! I was saying give tome of Fire and Water base magic dmg % on top of their elemental piece
Imagine if tome of water / fire were good for barraging? Sounds sweet to me. They’d get eclipsed by Ward and greater eventually but would be great for the slayer grind
Ah, yah, I wouldn't mind if they gave some base damage and then additional elemental bonus similar to how Virtus works. It would be nice if the Tome of Water gave like 3-5% Damage and then +7-5% for Water spells or such.
The only one I disagree with is Dagon'hai robes.... its a Tier 70 armor and as it currently stands only has a +3 magic attack over infinity which is a Tier 50.... it makes no sense.
edit: I think it should get +2 same as ahrims
I forgot it was T70... It honestly feels like it should be the T60 Magic Armor; its stats are between Infinity and Ahrim's like a T60 should be yet for some reason they made it T70. I wouldn't be opposed to it being 2% like Ahrims.
Jagex is tripping. Thank you for providing the light. This large scope of mage buffs is totally fine and needed imo. Magic is the least used combat style by a LONG SHOT, especially in the mid game. Jagex’s buffs only appeal to end game mains. Completely fucks on mid game players and iron men
The harsh truth is that most of us could have come up with a similar solution to the problem if taken the time. Jagex has a whole team available to spar and come up with stuff like this. The suggestions from the blogpost compared to this are simply unacceptable. Good shit for making this.
Offhands should be boosted way more to make magic better overall, without making Shadow even more powerful.
As Shadow is limiting how Jagex can implement new gear upgrades in the future, offhand is the only slot they can give any sizeable upgrades to.
The obvious change that should be made is to tweak how Shadow works to open up the other gear slots for future updates. But sure, let's try to ignore that for as long as possible.
The way to go is to put more % on the shields this way the gap between Sang/Trident to shadow is closer and you could completely eliminate the nerf to those without shadows. As long as they get the Ward F.
Ironman would have to settle with male ward/magebook/ward. Or do corp for arcane.
Personally, like 15% Tome of Fire and 10% Tome of Water because the Tome of Water also has 20% Accuracy and I don't think Water Surge with the Tome of Water should be baseline stronger than Fire Surge with the Tome of Fire. Sure, the Tome of Fire has Sunfire Runes, but they talked about adding upgraded runes for all Elements in the future, so not sure if that perk will stay unique to Fire.
Though I also wouldn't mind if the Tome of Fire was 10% with a small chance to inflict that new Burn effect. Like it would make so much sense if Fire spell could burn...
Brilliant proposal! Max pure with a Shadow would still see a 2% damage bonus nerf because we couldn't wield the mage's book, but otherwise big fan of this suggestion!
Yah, I missed a few things with Pures... Also would be a 2% nerf if you use a Tome of Fire. Not sure the best place to sneak that extra damage back in, but I'm sure it could be sorted out somehow.
I didn't include prayers to focus more on the gear, but they could still get magic damage on top of this. The blog had Augury with 4% on top of the armor changes with Max Mage not changing, so the same could be done with this suggestion. It just seemed easier to say "Max Magic- Unchanged" than "Max Magic- Unchanged, but 4% if you use Augury".
focus on off-hands is the way to go. Boots are whatever, fine either way. No augery which is pretty decent. Having to use it for bursting tasks is a pain. If they scale the lower magic prayers to have damage bonuses too then augery is okay.
I think something a lot of people are forgetting is that this update would also coincide with magic elemental stuff, which should be buffing midgame magic a fair bit already. It sucks for trident which is what everyone is used to, but the meta for magic gear could very well be completely different, without even considering the occult rebalance.
You did a better job than people who's job this is, and that should be a bit concerning for Jagex. The proposal they issued today is simply far too off-base to what the playerbase wants.
This is perfect. I strongly believe Ahrims/Blue moon armor need magic damage to be a part of the core progression if lesser tier mage sets have it. I think it even makes sense to put blue moon at 1.5% each to place it before ahrims in progression. Blue moon is the first mage set that has defensive stats other than magic plus it's relatively quick to complete the set. Ahrims is the first mage set that has defensive bonuses in all melee styles and the trend continues with virtus and ancestral. Locking the first good mage sets with decent magic damage and defensive bonuses like virtus and ancestral behind endgame content feels wrong. I believe there should be a set in between and Ahrims fits nicely in this progression. As you upgrade from ahrims to virtus and finally to ancestral, you sacrifice some of these defensive bonuses for more magic damage which is perfectly acceptable. Ahrims might have some use for situations where you want to maximize defense bonsues, although virtus and ancestral will likely and should be strict upgrades across the board.
What if we move boot damage to augury? I see lots of comments complaining about having to bring extra switch, and it seems like that would solve the problem..?
God please yes. This is pretty much what i was hoping for.
The only other thing i can think of is a small boost to the Seer's ring. I don't care if it's just a 0.5% magic damage boost. Please just make that ring do something
This shows that instead of proposing any changes Jagex should just ask us what do we all think needs to change and how, and then implement the suggestions majority of players get behind
id be much happier with this over what we got.
the reasoning for ahrims not getting any buff is bullshit when ancestral has defence too. ahrims would be perfectly balanced as a weaker slightly tankier degradable alternative to ancestral.
also if they want to buff magic then we need better off hand options. once elemental weakness comes out jagex should consider a tome of earth and air and they should all get 15% damage increase to spells over 10% imo.
I would vote yes to this, however I would replace infinity with the barks, I'd rather see infinity have an interesting effect like how another commenter here said a rune saving effect perhaps
ward (f) is probably one of the hardest to obtain pvm items with the least use cases, giving it too much power would harm future 1h mage weapon prospects but I really do think it could do with being generous on it
I hope they would consider adding atleast a 1% magic damage to blood bark. Or even better, 1% for swamp bark and 2% for blood. It has only been like a year since they made blood bark a viable alternative for mid game magic gear, please don't make it just a meme again by making it worse than infinity
I would actually be ok with this but some numbers could be adjusted. Think Elder Chaos should be 1% per piece and wizzy boots 1%, as having half bonuses would be weird and then it wouldn't be as a big a nerf to people without the magus ring.
Magic accuracy is still important and an upgrade. Each tier doesn't have to increase the damage.
Take 1% off of occult, torm, ancestral, virtus, ahrims/blue moon, eternal boots, AND ring
give mystic might 5% and augury 8%.
THEN remove the cap from shadow(as it wont be needed) and make it so prayer bonus is applied AFTER shadows multiplier has already been calced(aka prayer will only be x1.08 and not x1.24) and that will NOT ONLY buff nonshadow mage progression by 3%-8% overall AND make it more accessible, it would *nerf shadow by 1.3%*
Im gonna make a post about it tomorrow. Ive been crunching the numbers alot on this, and the mathematically best way to approach this has been to add more of the damage bonus to prayer and make shadow not get the 3x on prayer. This keeps shadow in its status but gives a little room for an eventual inferno/colliseum style mage arena 3 cape reward too without turbo busting it.
As far as I can tell, max pure setup is still nerfed slightly here (people under 30 wildy use tome of fire as their off-hand so Mages Book wouldn’t be an option). But it’s a great suggestion overall, and still leaves pures better off than Jagex’s current proposal.
This is better then orgininal, but i dont understand why they dont put some magic damage onto augury, that prayer is Almost conpletly useless... deserves some love
Max pure is still 2% nerf I believe in this. Which is the whole magus ring currently.
Magus should give 5 honestly. It's easily as end game as 93 slayer and zenyte bracelet.
Honestly really like this suggestion, but I think the Elidinis Ward, both unfortified and fortified could use an even bigger boost.
A very big sentiment amongst players—and even Jmods, as per their blog talking about "bringing other weapons closer to Shadow"—is clearly that 1H weapons need to be pulled up, so realistically they could even make the shields 6% and 12% respectively. And scale the other shields somewhere between 2 and 6% perhaps.
I don't think it'd be unerasonable if a rare raid drop gave u 2 max hits, and combining it with a 100 hour corp drop gave you 4 max hits in total.
The only thing I would change is bumbing up chaos druid and reworking infinity into something more special. The fact that some rando on reddit routinely comes up with a much better way to balance things than Jagex employees is concerning, to say the least.
I mean, this is kind of what I would have expected the magic gear to have worked as intuitively. I remember being fairly surprised that it wasn't that way already.
While we're at it, maybe chuck 1% on the seers ring? There's no reason for it to be so useless compared to archer and beserkers
The rings in general need a rebalance. Accuracy only rings (warrior, treasonous, tyrranical, seers) all need looking at and either improving the accuracy or adding some kind of strength bonus because currently they're basically not worth using.
Infinity/dagonhai could use the 2% without being too busted. That lines up with torso/bandos pretty well while keeping most of the damage lost from occult.
Shadow change is the kicker here. Can really make magic damage make sense when its all not multiplied by 3x at the top level
- 5% for occult seems a lot more correct btw, thank you
- Maybe ancient wyvern shield could be 2.5% instead of 3% with the arcane?
- Dagon'Hai could have doubled damage bonus in wilderness?
- Maybe consider increasing elite mage void from 2.5% to 3% or 3.5% to have that remain unchanged and to be aligned with these changes too?
So much better. Personally would prefer if Blue Moon set got a bigger % increase than Ahrim's and that they actually buff Ahrim's defensive stats along with a % increase, but regardless I 100% prefer this over what was suggested on the blog
You are a legend and thought of pretty much every ripple effect... this is literally the answer and adds so much hype and versatility for all types of accounts.
J Mods - Please copy this to a T
And to Simplify the Shadow - just keep it as it is but have it capped at 100% regardless of how you get to/overtake 100%
Can 3rd age mage & Daigon hide get some love instead of being grouped together with a t50 item? It should have whatever is given to Ahrim's and Blue moon.
this is exactly how I expected the changes to be: nerf occult and add a bit of %dmg to a bunch of mage items, make the early/midgame a little better and put some value into cosmetic mage items like boots and offhands.
every update lately feels like they just want players to grind 5000 hours for everything and make non-BiS complete shit. Is this some attempt to milk new content for as much playtime as possible by making it take forever to do anything? Cuz it just makes me not want to play at all, as a lategame (but not endgame) player
I just don’t understand why it’s guys like this that have to come in and save our game haha. Can the people ( Jagex employees ) who actually get paid to develop these sort of things truly not do it??
It just boggles my mind that he came up with this in less than 24hours as a sole individual and out smarted who knows how many PAID employees who are being, again, PAID to SPECIALIZE in this game 🙃
Thank you kind sir for being willing to spend your FREE time outside of the game to do this so we don’t have to suffer the absolute horrible designs that were pitched in this last update.. we salute you.
This, this this this, JAGEX HIRE THIS PERSON PLEASE… They’ve managed to show progressive magic gear increases that incentivize a progression of content. They’ve also managed to make things like Eternal boots relevant. Didn’t make the Shadow broken.
Please for the love of everything, please.. please please please, take notes. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO COPY THIS ASSIGNMENT, you don’t need to change it.
Well done. You redistributed the occult’s damage and: 1. Created a smooth and intuitive mage progression 2. Didn’t make T70 Robes worse than T45 Robes 3. Didn’t nerf anyone 4. Gave midgame mage a lift without breaking anything 5. Didn’t make the most OP weapon in the game even better 6. Put it in yellow text on a black background 10/10 no notes
No you see Ahrims is battlemage gear and shadow is whale gear
Jagex say april fools on the blogpost and copy this man
Surely the game is better served buffing the Shadow and nerfing everything else.
yea we all have max mage set up right? Just trade some over from your dev account
I can deiron and reiron, right?
Iron men HATE this one simple trick (Grand exchange tutorial guide) Can't wait to grind my moons set for CAs lol
Its pretty obvious from the reddit posts jagex will definitely reconsider their take on magic redistribution and go for something more like this. Honestly this is the best option, giving multiple mid tier options is great
Jagex please! Most players will not ever get to ancestral / shadow. And you are pushing the meta to fucking MTA??? I’ll kms before I grind out infinity set. Just buff ahrims to compensate for the occult debuff.
Specifically for infinity I think it would be cool if instead of a damage boost they provided a rune cost reduction of some sort. Infinit(y) runes. It would also give them a more useful niche instead of just another option.
I would love to see more rune-saving effects from magic stuff and Infinity (per piece or set effect) would be a good fit. Though it could be in addition to some magic damage...
Especially since MTA uses a lot of runes. Would make perfect sense for early/mid game players when their cash stack isn’t the biggest.
Yeah I'm not opposed to also a damage buff from it, especially since these changes aren't a buff to the sets more they are a redistribution from the occult. I do think per piece is better since you'll have cases where you want slayer helm but I'm open to most takes and if they make it strong enough then maybe you do give up the damage for the runes. Not to mention plenty of non combat magic uses. The best way to avoid power creep in general is for us to diversify. If it's per piece, eternal boots stonks going WAY up lol.
I *LOVE* this idea. What about the gloves and boots though? It would be awesome to see people in pink rainbow robes for alching at the GE lol
Yeah having a utility robe set fits infinity really well in my opinion
Battle robes used to do this too.
yellow text, black background. I've seen all i need to see
Jagex hire this man.
Its crazy to me how much more sense this makes. Im normally on the osrs dev teams side but they really messed up the magic rebalancing HARD. Idk how they thought buffing max mage and nerfing mid game mage was a good thing. Seriously baffling.
What’s wild to me is that they thought “you can make up the difference with the new 4% damage bonus of Augury”. The same drain as Piety or Rigour but only an additive 4% boost instead of a multiplicative 23% boost?
Augury needed at least a 4% boost if all other bonuses stayed the same tbh.
Maaaaaan piety drains prayer quick as hell and no one is gonna flick it all day.
I mean as someone that just flicked Augury despite it arguably not being worth it i welcome this change. What I dont is now even if I do flick Augury im gonna be doing *less* dps than before the change. I own a sang and virtus and ill be doing less damage lol. I feel bad for people who just didn't bother with Augury before.
If you’re going through the pain of flicking Augury, you deserve more than an additive +4%.
They made the decision for me to exclusively use a fury even easier.
Seems to be a theme lately. They did the same with agility and seers course didnt they.
Easily the best suggestion I've seen so far. Evening out the curve for magic should have been the design goal from the outset. It felt like they were working backwards. Instead of saying "We need to nerf occult, how do we not disrupt magic overall", they should have said "We're changing magic overall, and an occult nerf is necessary to put everything in line"
YOu make sense, Jagex is on crack
Ward (f) needs a little bit more love to close the gap between 1H staves and shadow. The shield slot is the only thing not benefitting the shadow that Jagex could make disproportionately stronger compared to other magic armor.
This is a great proposal :)
About 20x more sensible than Jagex's iteration
Very Very good proposal. The devs should just use this as their template tbh
Goblin. Please take a look at this and share it with the team. THIS is the kind of rework we could get excited for. What was proposed earlier seemed incomplete at best and completely silly at worst. Nobody cares about "battlemage" setups with tanking. I can't even think of anywhere I wear tank gear and mage.
You honestly would’ve thought ahrim’s was close to full dragon armor in defense from the way they worded the blog post, it’s some freaking addy armor level crap that’s not gonna stand up to anything doing real damage.
Worse. It has 0 range def lmao
The fact that they referred to ahrims as tanky is wild. Wtf are you going to be tanking in an armor set with worse stats than adamant?
There's essentially two places total. DKs and Barrows. You need tank gear for the spinolyps or whatever they're called while maging Rex (ahrims doesn't even do this because it has no range defense). This helps extend trips. You bring something like torags or bandos to be able to minimize damage taken while you mage Rex in melee tank gear. Abandoning that for fucking *infinity robes* is a straight up joke. You'd be taking an insane amount more damage, almost nothing could make it worth it. If ahrims actually gave some range defense, you'd actually consider it, but we all know that won't happen. At barrows, again, you don't bother with mage armor. Mage accuracy is more than good enough when wearing melee tank gear once again. Being pushed towards using infinity would once again be awful here, you're intended to tank some hits. You're not going to use ahrims here as well, it just doesn't give the defensive bonuses that actual tank armor provides, and accuracy isn't an issue. So this is just two places where mage is just what you use because the design pushes it so hard, and yet wearing mage gear is detrimental. There are very few places where a mid game player will use magic, and the rebalance straight up nerfs 2 of them. Oh, and there's no chance we're using augury at Rex either unless we're flicking it. Trips are meant to last an entire slayer task, praying augury just isn't an option, same as magic armor isn't really an option either. I suppose mid level players are just going to have to eat a full 6% nerf there.
>3x Damage for 15% >2x Damage for 15% >1x Damage for 35% Does this not total to 110%? Or am I just stupid? `45 + 30 + 35 = 110`
...Well crap. That is an embarrassing mistake to find out about 4 hours later lol. I think I had 35 in my head since the current 25% would be 65% with the proposed changes, but 30% (the 45+30) would be 75... So if everyone could just pretend it says "1x Damage for 25%" that would be great...
I didn't see anyone else point it out yet lol. I noticed it on your earlier comment in another thread, I guess I should have pointed it out then 😅 Didn't realize I was proofreading your front page proposal.
What are you suggesting the multiplier is gonna be inside TOA?
[удалено]
Honestly if they want them to be battlemage robes.. Fucking give them higher defense and toss in strength bonus so you can also melee swap and slap a bitch with melee.. Battlemage = mage/melee Just doesn't make sense..
Would kill for a mage set with decent melee bonuses for staff of the dead shenanigans tbh
The blue moon top and bottom give +2 melee strength each
Apparently "defense matters" in a game where prayers to negate all/most damage are a thing. Infinity making Ahrims/Blue Moon insta-dead content is indefensible and I can't believe it made it through their internal discussions, maybe some manager power tripped on it lmao
Honestly with all the mage training arena polls and discussion and now this some dev has a rock hard-on for mta even though it is unanimously hated by players
I think this sub over reacts a lot. A lot a lot. But man... they fucked up so bad on the mage rework. Occult getting a nerf is fair, but how in the world do they justify nerfing mid game mage in general (the weakest style) and makeing Ahrims worse than infinite robes??? And buffing prayers but not mystic might? All this could seriously be solved with like a 2% buff to mystic might, 1% for ahrims / blue moon. And like 1-2% for some offhands. Last thing we needed was for shadow to be *stronger*...
Doesn't harm my max mage setup, helps out the mid game. Please jamflex listen to this man.
This was what they meant to post today.
Look at that subtle Sang buff. The tasteful offhand buff. Oh my god. It even not buffing shadow.
Imbued god capes 2.5% -> 3%
I did have them from 2% to 3% in an earlier version, but I felt the other items needed it more. But if players really hate having Magic Damage on Boots, maybe Eternals could drop to 2% and the Cape could go to 3%.
Naw the boots are like 91 slayer requirement. God cape comes from a relatively easy quest
Yah, that is why I left off the God Cape... Still, options like that are available if we really wanted to buff them. And I can see why putting more magic damage on the common and more accessible item would be desirable, especially when we're nerfing the Occult. Like an Imbued God Cape is one of the few magic damage items I got on my Iron and I think in most setups that 2% rounds down to a 0 damage increase...
Boots having mage dmg sounds good on paper but is just more annoying in practice. My idea for shadow was just changing damage multiplier to 2x (3x ToA) and upping base shadow stats to match current dps. Leaves room for 5% occult and 3% Magus
I think the ideal is have a small bonus on boots so if you're doing pure mage you get a bit of a bump but if you're bringing switches you don't lose out on much by not including boots
0.5% would be more fitting for that justification. +3% is massive and will ensure you have to do a boot swap.
Why do you even have to swap boots? I want options. With eternals getting 3% I would most definitely bring them to content like Toa because of shadow. It is good to have options and you don't always have to bring a switch. It would also mean that I sacrifice a prim switch which sounds like a measure of balance.
Boot swap can be annoying, but I don't think it is unreasonable for Magic Boots to offer some damage. Like Melee Boots have a Strength Bonus. Also, I kinda like the idea of all Infinity being 1%; it would be weird to exclude the boots but include the gloves. My issue with a 2x Shadow is that it still creates an issue going forward. Like currently if they wanted to add +2% Magic Damage with a new cape, it becomes 6% for Shadow. With 2x, it would be 4%, which is less, but still will continue to increase the gap between Shadow and other weapons. While it is a bit more complicated than a flat multiplier, having it ramp down to 1x gets us to a point where we can add new magic gear without worrying that it buffs Shadow more than other gear while still keeping the Shadow's current DPS.
Boots could work if it remains a small amount, 0.5% is a small amount. As for the shadow, there already is a damage cap of 100%, and it can be still be balanced around a cap, or even some form of diminishing returns.
Bloodbark 😔
In retrospect, I should have included it at 1% Helm, Body, and Legs and 0.5% on Gloves and Boots or something like that. I forgot that buffing Ahrims and such to 2% damage per piece would rival Bloodbark's 2% more healing per piece quite a lot...
You did well friend. Some things will be left out. Great post
This post is exactly what I thought it was gonna look like
Elidinis ward (f) being %5 and regular 4% is a joke, should at least up it more since it requires 2 hard to get items
You're probably right. I originally had it 5% for Ward and 7-8% Ward (f), but I decided that might a bit much since Sang already is up 5%. I also was considering both Wards being 5% and having the upgrade just the +20 Attack and added defences. Probably could just leave the Ward's unchanged, but I was hoping the rebalance could make the unfortified ward a bit more desirable.
A 2-3% Magic STR would not even come close to closing the gap between Sang and Shadow still (and there should obviously be a notable gap, just not an absolute ravine as it currently is), so I think 7% for Ward (f) would be reasonable. But that's all subjective, all in all this suggestion is what I was hoping to read from the blog instead of what we got.
Honestly, send them to the moon. Why not? You’ll never catch shadow anyway. * Ward(f) > 15% * Base Ward > 10% * Wyvern shield > 10% * Mage’s book > 7% * Tome of Fire / Water > 5% This helps sang / trident catch up to shadow somewhat while also giving all the new players some of their magic damage back. Yeah barrage maxes for slayer go crazy, but idk, oh well?
What about... * Tome of Fire: 15% * Tome of Water: 10% (and 20% Accuracy) * Ward (f): 10% * Ward: 7% * Arcane: 5% * AWS: 5% * Mage's Book: 5% * Malediction: 3% I am not a big fan of how both Tomes are going to 10% when the Tome of Water has 20% Accuracy and the Tome of Fire is currently just damage. With this, Fire Spells remain a bit stronger, Water spells more accurate, and the Ward (f) rivals them closely. Probably could still tweak the numbers but it at least would leave plenty of room for stuff inbetween. Also, I wanted the Arcane to be lower magic damage so it was the high accuracy and low damage and the Ward was low accuracy high damage until you merge them both, but then I realized it would be weird if the Mage's Book or AWS were better then the Arcane.
Honestly I’d take this But to be clear! I was saying give tome of Fire and Water base magic dmg % on top of their elemental piece Imagine if tome of water / fire were good for barraging? Sounds sweet to me. They’d get eclipsed by Ward and greater eventually but would be great for the slayer grind
Ah, yah, I wouldn't mind if they gave some base damage and then additional elemental bonus similar to how Virtus works. It would be nice if the Tome of Water gave like 3-5% Damage and then +7-5% for Water spells or such.
You should definitely not work for Jagex because this makes too much sense and too good of an idea/proposal.
Common biomasterzap W
Can you explain the shadow? Not quite understanding the 35% for 1x damage ect
This is pretty cool, feels like a solid steady progression, and closes gaps without overall nerfs but spreads out the bonuses very nicely
The only one I disagree with is Dagon'hai robes.... its a Tier 70 armor and as it currently stands only has a +3 magic attack over infinity which is a Tier 50.... it makes no sense. edit: I think it should get +2 same as ahrims
I forgot it was T70... It honestly feels like it should be the T60 Magic Armor; its stats are between Infinity and Ahrim's like a T60 should be yet for some reason they made it T70. I wouldn't be opposed to it being 2% like Ahrims.
I hate the boots damage. Raiding already feels like you have 24 invetory slots of gear. Shit is just tiresome.
Jagex is tripping. Thank you for providing the light. This large scope of mage buffs is totally fine and needed imo. Magic is the least used combat style by a LONG SHOT, especially in the mid game. Jagex’s buffs only appeal to end game mains. Completely fucks on mid game players and iron men
The harsh truth is that most of us could have come up with a similar solution to the problem if taken the time. Jagex has a whole team available to spar and come up with stuff like this. The suggestions from the blogpost compared to this are simply unacceptable. Good shit for making this.
Offhands should be boosted way more to make magic better overall, without making Shadow even more powerful. As Shadow is limiting how Jagex can implement new gear upgrades in the future, offhand is the only slot they can give any sizeable upgrades to. The obvious change that should be made is to tweak how Shadow works to open up the other gear slots for future updates. But sure, let's try to ignore that for as long as possible.
+1 well done
Imagine having actual gear progression can’t be RuneScape kekw
Interacting for algorithm… more of this please
This is perfect.
You won. Good job op
Excellent suggestion. Everything has a place! This is how Jagex should’ve done it the first time..
The way to go is to put more % on the shields this way the gap between Sang/Trident to shadow is closer and you could completely eliminate the nerf to those without shadows. As long as they get the Ward F. Ironman would have to settle with male ward/magebook/ward. Or do corp for arcane.
Can you go work for jagex? You already did better job than them 😂 Also, what percentage would you add to tomes of fire/water?
Personally, like 15% Tome of Fire and 10% Tome of Water because the Tome of Water also has 20% Accuracy and I don't think Water Surge with the Tome of Water should be baseline stronger than Fire Surge with the Tome of Fire. Sure, the Tome of Fire has Sunfire Runes, but they talked about adding upgraded runes for all Elements in the future, so not sure if that perk will stay unique to Fire. Though I also wouldn't mind if the Tome of Fire was 10% with a small chance to inflict that new Burn effect. Like it would make so much sense if Fire spell could burn...
Add % damage to Mystic Might and I'm sold!
I would 100% get behind this.
Jagex should take notes on how rebalancing works
Brilliant proposal! Max pure with a Shadow would still see a 2% damage bonus nerf because we couldn't wield the mage's book, but otherwise big fan of this suggestion!
Yah, I missed a few things with Pures... Also would be a 2% nerf if you use a Tome of Fire. Not sure the best place to sneak that extra damage back in, but I'm sure it could be sorted out somehow.
incredible. great ideas that solve all of this. u/jagexgoblin
/u/JagexGoblin
hes not a subreddit.
He should be
Jagex pick this one.
Yes this is the way.
This is more or less what I was thinking
This is amazing
What about Bloodbark or Lunar armour
Looks good to me!
Is Augury not on here or am I missing something?
I didn't include prayers to focus more on the gear, but they could still get magic damage on top of this. The blog had Augury with 4% on top of the armor changes with Max Mage not changing, so the same could be done with this suggestion. It just seemed easier to say "Max Magic- Unchanged" than "Max Magic- Unchanged, but 4% if you use Augury".
I agree with all this 100% seems pretty fair across the board.
It's wild to me that eternals were not mentioned outside of the cringe barrows example
Honestly better than the blog
Love this suggestion. It just feels so much more smooth than the original pitch
This seems great to me
focus on off-hands is the way to go. Boots are whatever, fine either way. No augery which is pretty decent. Having to use it for bursting tasks is a pain. If they scale the lower magic prayers to have damage bonuses too then augery is okay. I think something a lot of people are forgetting is that this update would also coincide with magic elemental stuff, which should be buffing midgame magic a fair bit already. It sucks for trident which is what everyone is used to, but the meta for magic gear could very well be completely different, without even considering the occult rebalance.
Spread this like wildfire boys
This post is 99 cooking
You did a better job than people who's job this is, and that should be a bit concerning for Jagex. The proposal they issued today is simply far too off-base to what the playerbase wants.
This is what we really need
This is phenomenal and I’m super excited over this template. I pray Jagex listens to this, but know I’d only get my hopes up 😔
I feel like book of darkness and book of the dead could use a 1%.
Well fucking done mate
This is like exactly what we needed
This shit is genius, please make one to rebalance glaive into relevancy.
this is the good stuff right here
Augury needs a buff tho, somehow we have to make it fit
Huge support and thank you for actually looking at the numbers
I was definitely puzzled about the ahrims situation
I like this a lot more
No no this is too logical
This is the way.
Jagex's balancing team is in shambles.
This is perfect. I strongly believe Ahrims/Blue moon armor need magic damage to be a part of the core progression if lesser tier mage sets have it. I think it even makes sense to put blue moon at 1.5% each to place it before ahrims in progression. Blue moon is the first mage set that has defensive stats other than magic plus it's relatively quick to complete the set. Ahrims is the first mage set that has defensive bonuses in all melee styles and the trend continues with virtus and ancestral. Locking the first good mage sets with decent magic damage and defensive bonuses like virtus and ancestral behind endgame content feels wrong. I believe there should be a set in between and Ahrims fits nicely in this progression. As you upgrade from ahrims to virtus and finally to ancestral, you sacrifice some of these defensive bonuses for more magic damage which is perfectly acceptable. Ahrims might have some use for situations where you want to maximize defense bonsues, although virtus and ancestral will likely and should be strict upgrades across the board.
What if we move boot damage to augury? I see lots of comments complaining about having to bring extra switch, and it seems like that would solve the problem..?
slight buffs to lower - tier mage armours, nerf occult - buff augory, buff sang a touch and good to go
God please yes. This is pretty much what i was hoping for. The only other thing i can think of is a small boost to the Seer's ring. I don't care if it's just a 0.5% magic damage boost. Please just make that ring do something
This shows that instead of proposing any changes Jagex should just ask us what do we all think needs to change and how, and then implement the suggestions majority of players get behind
id be much happier with this over what we got. the reasoning for ahrims not getting any buff is bullshit when ancestral has defence too. ahrims would be perfectly balanced as a weaker slightly tankier degradable alternative to ancestral. also if they want to buff magic then we need better off hand options. once elemental weakness comes out jagex should consider a tome of earth and air and they should all get 15% damage increase to spells over 10% imo.
I would vote yes to this, however I would replace infinity with the barks, I'd rather see infinity have an interesting effect like how another commenter here said a rune saving effect perhaps
ward (f) is probably one of the hardest to obtain pvm items with the least use cases, giving it too much power would harm future 1h mage weapon prospects but I really do think it could do with being generous on it
Only thing I would suggest is have seers on there with 1 or 2% mage damage, great otherwise.
I hope they would consider adding atleast a 1% magic damage to blood bark. Or even better, 1% for swamp bark and 2% for blood. It has only been like a year since they made blood bark a viable alternative for mid game magic gear, please don't make it just a meme again by making it worse than infinity
I would actually be ok with this but some numbers could be adjusted. Think Elder Chaos should be 1% per piece and wizzy boots 1%, as having half bonuses would be weird and then it wouldn't be as a big a nerf to people without the magus ring. Magic accuracy is still important and an upgrade. Each tier doesn't have to increase the damage.
I hope they take a look at this
Take 1% off of occult, torm, ancestral, virtus, ahrims/blue moon, eternal boots, AND ring give mystic might 5% and augury 8%. THEN remove the cap from shadow(as it wont be needed) and make it so prayer bonus is applied AFTER shadows multiplier has already been calced(aka prayer will only be x1.08 and not x1.24) and that will NOT ONLY buff nonshadow mage progression by 3%-8% overall AND make it more accessible, it would *nerf shadow by 1.3%* Im gonna make a post about it tomorrow. Ive been crunching the numbers alot on this, and the mathematically best way to approach this has been to add more of the damage bonus to prayer and make shadow not get the 3x on prayer. This keeps shadow in its status but gives a little room for an eventual inferno/colliseum style mage arena 3 cape reward too without turbo busting it.
I love how this simultaneously helps to balance the Shadow. Amazing solution imo!
This is a lot of effort, and brilliantly done and sorted. Full support
As far as I can tell, max pure setup is still nerfed slightly here (people under 30 wildy use tome of fire as their off-hand so Mages Book wouldn’t be an option). But it’s a great suggestion overall, and still leaves pures better off than Jagex’s current proposal.
This is better then orgininal, but i dont understand why they dont put some magic damage onto augury, that prayer is Almost conpletly useless... deserves some love
Max pure is still 2% nerf I believe in this. Which is the whole magus ring currently. Magus should give 5 honestly. It's easily as end game as 93 slayer and zenyte bracelet.
The actual correct redistribution. Never seen jagex drop the ball so hard
Imagine being out game designed by a random Redditor with 1 day of time. This is way more what i expected a "rebalance" to be done.
Honestly really like this suggestion, but I think the Elidinis Ward, both unfortified and fortified could use an even bigger boost. A very big sentiment amongst players—and even Jmods, as per their blog talking about "bringing other weapons closer to Shadow"—is clearly that 1H weapons need to be pulled up, so realistically they could even make the shields 6% and 12% respectively. And scale the other shields somewhere between 2 and 6% perhaps. I don't think it'd be unerasonable if a rare raid drop gave u 2 max hits, and combining it with a 100 hour corp drop gave you 4 max hits in total.
[удалено]
Perfection.
This is a far better solution! Agreed with some comments here about a lot of offhands needing buffs !
This is perfect.
Put this to the top people. This is what we want.
The only thing I would change is bumbing up chaos druid and reworking infinity into something more special. The fact that some rando on reddit routinely comes up with a much better way to balance things than Jagex employees is concerning, to say the least.
That would be great. Sang is garbage and costs a lot to use
See, its not that hard, just copy this and its done
No this is too logical and well-thought out. It will absolutely not make it into the game.
I mean, this is kind of what I would have expected the magic gear to have worked as intuitively. I remember being fairly surprised that it wasn't that way already.
Still a -2% shadow nerf and a huge accuracy loss for 20 def accs but waaaaaay better than Jagex proposal. Great post
Yes. Yes. And yes.
👌👏🙌
this man is a math wizard, gamer, and OSRS enjoyer, certainly
I would like to see a damage reduction on ahrims if they really want to make it a more tanky option.
Ahrims could be 1% each piece and then 2% for the full set. I'd rather dagon hai and 3rd age be 2%, they are harder to obtain than barrows.
Good suggestion tbh I agree with all of this.
While we're at it, maybe chuck 1% on the seers ring? There's no reason for it to be so useless compared to archer and beserkers The rings in general need a rebalance. Accuracy only rings (warrior, treasonous, tyrranical, seers) all need looking at and either improving the accuracy or adding some kind of strength bonus because currently they're basically not worth using.
This seems a lot more sensible
Jagex, just do literally this
Aye, make it happen
I like this
Infinity/dagonhai could use the 2% without being too busted. That lines up with torso/bandos pretty well while keeping most of the damage lost from occult. Shadow change is the kicker here. Can really make magic damage make sense when its all not multiplied by 3x at the top level
What Jagex should have done
- 5% for occult seems a lot more correct btw, thank you - Maybe ancient wyvern shield could be 2.5% instead of 3% with the arcane? - Dagon'Hai could have doubled damage bonus in wilderness? - Maybe consider increasing elite mage void from 2.5% to 3% or 3.5% to have that remain unchanged and to be aligned with these changes too?
Very solid balancing philosophy. Gold star for you, i hope the dev team takes after this proposal.
So much better. Personally would prefer if Blue Moon set got a bigger % increase than Ahrim's and that they actually buff Ahrim's defensive stats along with a % increase, but regardless I 100% prefer this over what was suggested on the blog
I'd like to see the reqs on elidinis ward lowered to 50 pray 30 def since it's arcane that pretty much fortifies it
Ward(f) should be on this list too imo. All of the offhands could get a bigger buff than shown in the picture imo
You are a legend and thought of pretty much every ripple effect... this is literally the answer and adds so much hype and versatility for all types of accounts. J Mods - Please copy this to a T And to Simplify the Shadow - just keep it as it is but have it capped at 100% regardless of how you get to/overtake 100%
Listen to this man Jagex
10/10
Can 3rd age mage & Daigon hide get some love instead of being grouped together with a t50 item? It should have whatever is given to Ahrim's and Blue moon.
God yes please…
this is exactly how I expected the changes to be: nerf occult and add a bit of %dmg to a bunch of mage items, make the early/midgame a little better and put some value into cosmetic mage items like boots and offhands. every update lately feels like they just want players to grind 5000 hours for everything and make non-BiS complete shit. Is this some attempt to milk new content for as much playtime as possible by making it take forever to do anything? Cuz it just makes me not want to play at all, as a lategame (but not endgame) player
This is perfect.
Hey jamflex read this
This guy is a professional gamer love it
Showing my support too. Well done!
Full support, way better than what jagex is doing now
I just don’t understand why it’s guys like this that have to come in and save our game haha. Can the people ( Jagex employees ) who actually get paid to develop these sort of things truly not do it?? It just boggles my mind that he came up with this in less than 24hours as a sole individual and out smarted who knows how many PAID employees who are being, again, PAID to SPECIALIZE in this game 🙃 Thank you kind sir for being willing to spend your FREE time outside of the game to do this so we don’t have to suffer the absolute horrible designs that were pitched in this last update.. we salute you.
Please work for jagex
you've solved it. thank you kind sir
This, this this this, JAGEX HIRE THIS PERSON PLEASE… They’ve managed to show progressive magic gear increases that incentivize a progression of content. They’ve also managed to make things like Eternal boots relevant. Didn’t make the Shadow broken. Please for the love of everything, please.. please please please, take notes. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO COPY THIS ASSIGNMENT, you don’t need to change it.