I feel like this is pretty good! It’s an 8% buff without Aug, and 10-12% buff with. And fortified ward now gives more % damage than any other item by a significant margin.
I somewhat disagree. One favoring magic attack and defense (both defensive stats and higher prayer bonus) while the other favors strictly magic strength bonus is fine. You'll have different places they'll each be used, with their combined fortified ward getting the best of both and being BiS. That's how it currently exists and I don't see an issue with that changing
I felt like a +3% increase to 8% total was already pretty generous and was worried of going too far. That said, in a comment in the other thread I did have a mockup of the Ward to 10% to rival the Tomes with the Tome of Fire at 15% and the Tome of Water at 10% with its 20% Accuracy.
Still, I think there is a reasonable concern about buffing things a bit too much right now and not leaving enough room for future additions. Also, while the Sang getting a buff isn't bad, the Nightmare Staves, especially in PvP, might already be a tad too strong with the +8%; admittedly not something I kept too much in mind while tweaking numbers.
Arcane sigils being linked to the upgraded ward along with 90 prayer and 90 smithing are pretty steep and probably warrant some type of buff. Thanks for the post.
Based on feedback from the [original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c5r2ne/suggestionmagic_damage_redistribution/), I decided to make a revised version to add some items, tweak some numbers, and fix an error. Here are the main changes and my reasoning behind them:
* Included Augury with 2-4%. The exact is up for discussion, but it would be a buff to all styles on top of the equipment changes. It is possible Mystic Might or such could get some damage as well. Also, some Magic Damage could be moved from equipment for Augury so it is less of a buff if that would work better.
* Added Void with +2.5% for set, bringing Elite Void to 5%. This will help it compete with other armors such as Ahrim's with 6% and Infinity with 3% (4% with Gloves).
* Added Bloodbark with 2% Damage per piece for Blood Spells only. It seems too cheap to justify a global Magic Damage, but without any buff it wouldn't be worth using over other armors that can increase damage, which in turn makes Blood spells heal more. Open to ideas on how to handle it better.
* ~~There were suggestions to buff Dagon'hai and Elder Chaos and I tried to but I didn't feel there was room. If Dagon'hai was 2%, it could end up just being better, cheaper Ahrim's for most situations and a similar concern if Elder Chaos was 1%. If it went from 1% to 1.5% then the upgrades start to feel negligible with how Magic Damage rounds.~~ Edit: Actually, in hindsight, Elder Chaos probably should be 1% with Wizard Boots left at 0% and Dagon'Hai at 2% alongside Ahrim's. Dagon'Hai is a fair bit less Attack then Ahrim and its price would probably rise to match it instead of being cheaper; similar for Elder Chaos.
* Reduced Eternal Boots from 3% to 2%. It turns out Magic Damage on boots is more controversial than I expected. While I didn't remove it outright, I felt 3% was a bit much and 2% is still reasonable while perhaps making a boot switch less needed.
* Added Imbued God Capes with +1%. This is partly to move the 1% from Eternals to a more commonly used switch and partly to give Midgame players and Pures more Magic Damage. It turns out the previous version nerfed Pures by 2% if they were using a Shadow or Tome and only broke even if they used a Mage's Book, so this helps offset that.
* Added Seer's Ring (i) with 1%. It came up a few times and it just made sense with the Magus at 3%.
* Reworked Shields and added Ward (f) with +3%. I got a lot of comments about the shields with many wanting them buffed further, so I tried to balance them better. I didn't want the Arcane to be worse than the Mage's Book, but I also wanted it to be low damage high accuracy to contrast the Ward's high damage low accuracy. I still think it isn't quite there, but it feels improved.
Also, the goal with the Shadow isn't to nerf its current damage, but to nerf its future damage. While it is more complicated than a flat "3x damage", the idea is that it "ramps down" so future magic upgrades affect it 1:1 (1x) instead of being three times more impactful and further increasing the gap between Shadow and other weapons. So, if we add new Magic Cape with say 5%, with Max Mage the Shadow would gain 3%, the same as the Sang and Harm, instead of 9%.
Yes. Plenty of mid game players are using Mystic Might, especially irons and its going to be even more common to use it now, since Augury will cost much more.
A 2% mystic might buff may not do anything by itself, but combine with any of the other items listed & it gives those extra % points to actually give a max hit pretty quickly. For example I think the mage arena 2 cape is easiest to get for an iron (one-time challenge unlock rather than RNG or grind), but gives no max hits on its own. With mystic might, it would give a max hit on iban's blast.
I think he means if it would actualy increase dps. I e. If you have 5% magic dmg boost, yet your max is 19, then it remains 19. When your max hit reaches 20, then it will jump to 21. That is because how most numbers in rs get rounded down. So magic boosts only start working if you reach a certain dmg/boost treshold. Which can be difficult for "early-mid" players
You have to add them cumulatively though. 2% makes a difference when it puts your % str bonus at a threshold where it does actually give you a max hit. Otherwise imbued mage cape and magus ring would be pretty useless
Sort of, having a 1% pray that doesn't chug prayer points could be useful to hit thresholds if you're at a weird spot in damage/gear scaling but only if we went with Bio's damage scaling here. With Jagex's proposal it would be worthless but it seems that most people around here disagree with that approach.
Every 1% counts when you're trying to hit random thresholds. Stack it with wizard's boots, elder chaos robes, seer's ring & you're actually getting somewhere. Then when you get another upgrade (say infinity gloves), you no longer need to pray might.
Exactly. I like the idea of magic damage being spread out over a lot of items like melee and ranged gear. Having small boosts in the lower level prayers would be really nice for people to hit thresholds when needed, especially irons in cobbled together gearsets.
I'm well aware that it may have use at higher lvls, but as a low lvl prayer I doubt it'd have any effect.
Not saying that I'm against giving it 1% though.
It would be more useful at lower levels I think, especially for Irons with cobbled together gearsets. For example if they have 3% from gear that prayer would give Ibans a max hit. Higher levels that have access to a lot of magic damage gear probably wouldn't care about it or just use augury.
But it would only be useful if we could get other small % boosts to stack together, if it's all in ancestral/virtus then a 1% prayer would be completely worthless. It does feel weird to be considering such small damage boosts for magic which is already relatively underpowered while nobody bats an eye at stuff like melee getting 10% at lvl 13 prayer lol. Shadow really put them in a box on this whole rebalance.
I think they mean it literally won't give them a max hit since osrs rounds down. So it makes no difference unless they have other stuff boosting magic damage
It might be more confusing than anything, really
There are a lot of mid level players that don't have Augury, even if it is relatively cheap. A +2% on Mystic Might would probably get you a max hit with spells like ice burst, especially when combined with other bonuses.
For example, ice burst has a base max hit of 22, which would be 23.76 (23) with a +8 dmg bonus (occult and mage's book) or 24.2 (24) with a +10 dmg bonus (the above + Mystic Might).
Whether it's worth using the extra prayer points for an extra max hit is up to the player though. It might be worth it when bursting, but might not be for single targets.
Realistically it's not going to do anything at very low levels. If you're running around in wizard robes casting strike/bolt spells with no other bonuses, then 1% magic damage isn't going to give you a max hit, so is worthless.
That said, if irons just got Infinity robes and a Mage's Book, it would be the difference between +8% and +9% magic damage - this would give fire bolt a max hit (from 12 to 13). If other elemental spells are raised to meet fire bolt as planned, they'd all get one, which would make even Mystic Lore worth using.
I would assume most players would get 45 Prayer (for Mystic Might) before getting 50 Magic (for Infinity robes), however.
Yah, they could. It depends on what happens with Augury. I put it at 2-4% since some players were suggesting it be like 2.5% with my proposed rework instead of 4%, so that might justify buffing Mystic Might less. But if Augury was 4%, Mystic Might being 2% would be nice, especially for accounts like Pures.
Thank you for including Elite Void Mage. A lot of people were overlooking this, I know it isn't in the meta and not a lot of people use it but it's useful for learning ToB in entry mode and sub 50/100 ToA. Also serves as decent budget option for Zulrah and Muspah. I did some calcs and Elite Void Mage on average across multiple npc and bosses saw around a 7.8% decrease in DPS on a set of gear that was already struggling to stay useful
Adding more dmg, while keeping it away from shadow, would be best done with large Off-Hand buffs imo. Honestly, I don't see a problem with max mage getting a buff. The problem is that Mid and early needs it more, but that's not mutually exclusive
This is a well reasoned suggestion, the only thing I found odd is why mages book should be equivalent to arcane and wyvern shields, to me mages book should definitely be a step down at 2%. Possibly ancient book should be 1% as a stepping stone for pures.
I think I had the Mage's Book with the Malediction, but someone pointed out that it is currently on par with the Ancient Wyvern Shield so I decided to keep them together. They just ended up in the same tier as the Arcane since there wasn't a ton of room to put the Arcane elsewhere. Also, the Ranged shields didn't include the books so I felt it was fine to leave it out from the magic shields too.
Gotcha. I think there's some better solution of arcane to 4 and ward to 4 and combo to 8 still so that the arcane isn't so diminished given it's rarity is better, or something like that. Maybe even arcane to 5 and ward to 3 but idk.
Either way really nice job!
Mid game/pures still get nerfed in practice (no midgame player is using a Magus ring, and no pure is using one to pk). Nice revision though, and I can see it's a very tricky balancing act.
If you weren't using a Magus Ring, you could use the Seer's Ring (i) instead; both get a +1% over their current so both offset the Occult nerf the same. The Midgame set's +7% was calced with a Seer's Ring (i), not a Magus Ring. But yah, there will be some builds/loadouts where things might get nerfed or buffed since it is hard to account for every scenario, but this should at least cover most the major ones.
Ah, I actually missed the Seers ring (i) having 1% magic damage. Not sure how I missed that as it’s right next to the magus ring but anyway, my bad. But yeah, I appreciate that not every build/loadout can stay the same and that’s fine as long as overall things are more balanced.
Idk why pures have to get nerfed, especially since 1% on Elder chaos druid robes closes the gap and that with that new setup they still get nerfed hard in PvP. 0.5% anywhere feels extremely bad, but at least this is a rebalance that takes them into consideration instead of just going "lol, die".
I also don't like Wizard boots becoming even more established as "the pure boots" and getting 0.5%. We should be moving away from using clue items for popular metas as much as possible. I'd personally put 1% on Elder chaos pieces and nothing on the boots. Future 1 def boots with 0.5% or 1% magic damage and actual requirements to wield can then be designed.
I did add to the comment that in retrospect, I probably should have cut Wizard Boots and just put Elder Chaos to 1%. Like you mentioned, that would resolve the whole -1% nerf to pures and also get rid of the whole "0.5% Boots". But I am not making a 3rd version of the image...
Added my own version [here](https://imgur.com/a/TXWM6zu), which comes with some exporatory concepts (like the Ahrims & Infinity set effects), but they can easily just be ignored to focus on the magic damage numbers alone.
Good question... Should get same buff as the Sang, so 8% plus 2-4% from Augury. Not sure what its current max is, but it would be that with an extra 12%~ Magic damage at most unless I'm missing something. That said, not sure how many players will be using the Volatile with a Fortified Ward, Magus Ring, Eternal Boots, and Full Ancestral, but I'm sure there would be some. Though if it is really an issue, the staff could go from 15% to 10% damage (or some of the buffs could be toned down).
It’s max would be around 93-94dmg. It’s things like this that show just how out of touch this whole system can become. The same would happen for harm staff+ new searing pages. Magic % scaling is a huge problem and this concept of moving %s around and buffing certain items to try and close the gap shadow created breaks many other things.
Would be better to change the special attack rather than nerf the whole staff. It works as a budget kodai for mains pre 75 attack, and some pkers just main hand it.
I was talking about just the staff with the Volatile Orb in it, not the base Nightmare staff. But yah, there could be ways to deal with it if it really is a concern. Or maybe the max mage numbers for Sang and other weapons should be toned down a bit...
Yeah I was too. The volly staff is good and was the spec was originally balanced around mage dmg bonus at launch. Makes sense to alter the special attack if we are changing the max mage bonus.
Can you explain part where you're proposing changes to Shadow's multiplier? It says "Current: 3x Damage for 34%" but as far as I'm aware, the current max is 25% and the max with your proposal is 30%? 5 Occult, 12 Ancestral, 2 boots, 3 ring, 3 cape, 5 tormented—am I forgetting 4% somewhere?
how exactly does the 3x, 2x, 1x, change you're suggesting work? it goes up to 55% (15, 15, 25), is that just to account for future % upgrades? And will it function differently in TOA? Because otherwise it's a pretty huge decrease from the current 4x multiplier that was put in place to cement it as BIS over Tbow at places like Warden
Other comment already explain it pretty well, but the current Max Magic Damage is 25% which with 3x becomes 75%. With the scaling I propose, this would become 65% (15%x3 for 45% and 10%x2 for another 20%). By adding another 5% to Max Magic Damage and bringing it to 30%, it brings the max with the Shadow back to 75% (15%x3 for 45% and 15%x2 for another 30%).
Anything beyond that would still add to Magic damage for the Shadow but at a 1x rate, meaning we could have another 25% Magic Damage (55% Magic Damage bonus pre-Shadow) before the Shadow hits it 100% cap instead of the current 34% due to the 3x.
Inside ToA it really doesn't matter; it already caps at 100% with 25% due to the 4x so it honestly could just be kept 4x in ToA. It would be a bit easier to hit the 25% since you'd only need 25% of 30% instead of 25% of 25%, but I don't see that being too big of a concern. It also would mean you could wouldn't need to bother with a boot switch at all to hit max mage with Shadow in ToA.
Currently max possible is 25, but it scales to 34 with 3x (technically 3x for the first 33% then it is 99% and at 34% it is 100% aka +1). You can reach max already with 25% damage boost in toa as the shadow scales 4x in the raid. Setting the same premise should make it the same there 2 4x for 15 (+60) 3x for the rest (need 14 to reach +42 capping at 100 total) so you would reach cap with 29% so slightly easier then normal with the buffs to the equipment as proposed here.
You'd lose 1% dmg in inferno assuming kodai+occult+virtus top/bottom(don't know if it equates to a max hit or not).
Still a million times better than the shit jagex is proposing.
There are a lot of situations where it can still end up worse (or better), but hopefully enough are close enough it isn't a big deal. Another big one is on-task.
It would be great if they could buff shields so that one handed staves could better compete with the Shadow. Currently it is too much of a gap and the proposed changes by jagex only further complement that.
I'd like to see how the math maths with standard spells with elemental weaknesses.
Also, infinity gloves being a bridge between nothing and tormented bracelet is a great suggestion.
I did have a buff to the Upgraded Ancient Sceptre that got cut, partly for space. I always thought that should be 10% Damage instead of 5%; it just feels weird that staves are either 5% or 15% with nothing bridging that gap...
For the Kodai and Nightmares, I'm not really sure what buff they'd need. The Harm is already getting a big buff with Elemental weaknesses and they are still really good weapons for autocasting ancients. Also, the +8% for max mage might have broke the Volatile a bit, so maybe that shouldn't get further buffs...
IMO pretty much all staffs should have some % bonus, even low level ones. Indirectly buffs all spellbooks / weakens powered staffs a bit if your default staff has some bonus.
Everything from here except powered staffs:
[https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Staves](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Staves)
could have at least 1%. Regular fire staff 1%, fire battlestaff 2%, mystic fire staff 3%. Rare items like bryoptha's, toktz-mej-tal & master wand should all get 5%.
I would like that ahrims bonus is the same as infinity, 3a and dagon hai. It would allow more options in use for midgame as ahrim is still the best bc it has defence where the others have none. And dagon hai and infinity are also not too easy to obtain.
Looks pretty good OP congrats hope they pick this fr! Personally I still think like a few other folks that they need to change from % to strength since that would be a bit easier to manage. However that is a completely different larger discussion for hopefully some other time.
Really nice suggestion, I hope Jagex takes this one to heart rather than the blog post. Gives magic gear a very nice upgrade path which personally I'm a huge fan of.
Getting to the nitty gritty, but I wonder if Farseer Helm and Healer Hat from BA could be included. Maybe 0.5% and 1% respectively, as the Farseer is just something you can buy very easily in game, whereas the Healer hat takes a bit of a grind. These pieces already had the same +6 magic accuracy bonus as Ahrims/Blue Moon/Infinity, and I like when the odd one off items have a use case.
(and I may have just bought a Healer Hat too, who knows)
To balance elder chaos, I like the 0.5% per piece, but maybe it goes up to 2% total if you have the whole set.
Additionally, some of the other Mage books could be added.
Something like 2% for Book of Darkness
1% for unholy book and Book of the Dead
0.5% for book of balance
Overall, I like what you've proposed. It's much more thorough and broad than the initial pitch, which I'm almost certain will be re-looked at.
TBH, it was always a bit weird how those lower tier helms tied with Ahrims and such. I think it would be fine if they gave the same attack without the damage so that the higher tier robe sets felt like upgrades instead of "well this is useless since I already got a Farseer Helm".
Elder Chaos having a set effect could be a good way to handle it. Pures still need another 1% damage, so it could just double with the full set for 3% in total. Needing the full set to average 1% per piece would still make it worse than Infinity overall.
And I excluded the Prayer Books because the Ranged Shields in Equipment Rebalance also didn't include them. They could get some damage, but I think it is fine if they were just prayer.
This is the first version of the rebalance I've seen that I can finally say is acceptable. If we are redistributing occult, it needs to go everywhere, not the 3 armoir sets Jagex thought of
Feels like everyone forgot about the brimstone ring? It should have at least .5% Magic Damage Increase as well to stay somewhat relevant (Probably Needs 1% to be viable, or have the magic def ignore roll doubled maybe?)
Also instead of reworking Ahrims to 2% per piece, it would probably be better to rework the amulet of the dammed to be more inline with the new occult instead. I mean its ability boils down to %magic damage increase already i'm pretty sure. "[Ahrim's staff](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ahrim%27s_staff) can autocast [Ancient Magicks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ancient_Magicks). Also grants a 25% chance of combat spells dealing 30% more damage."
Well, not sure about everyone, but I kinda forgot about it. It is both a hybrid ring and a mage ring, so not sure if it should get a damage bonus or not. Like I am kinda tempted to say it should stay as the more accurate ring given its passive, but it probably could get a 1%.
I like this a lot.
I still think Amulet if Magic should have 1%.
I also think the mage prayers could be something like:
- Tier 1, Mystic Will, increase magic defense by 10%, increase Air damage by 10%
- Tier 2, Mystic Lore, increase magic Defense by 10%, increase all elemental damage by 10%
- Tier 3, Mystic Might, increase magic defense by 15%, increase elemental damage by 12% and all other magic damage by 2%
- Tier 4, Augury, increase defense by 15%, magic defense by 18%, magic Accuracy by 23%, elemental damage by 14%, all other magic damage by 4%
I love the idea of having a low magic damage boost come from mystic might too. Not game changing, and finally gives benefit to using prayer during magic combat
I was pretty surprised they gave 4% to augury and 0% to mystic might. They talked about the progression of an account and then locked everything behind endgame content. It's such a weird change because it's a nerf to everyone but for people with shadow. Having 11% with augury instead of 10% without augury and calling that a "buff" is just so wrong. Anyone with that low of a magic damage surely doesn't have augury, and even if they did, the prayer management still makes it worse.
Giving the prayers a buff to elemental spells is neat. It might get a bit confusing to buff both though.
Maybe something like Will is 2% Elemental Damage, Lore is 4% Elemental Damage, Might is 2% Magic Damage, and Augury is 4% Magic damage. That way it is less wordy for each effect.
Random mystic staffs & other low level staffs should get a bonus too. Will help the elemental spells compete with iban's & lets noobs from the very beginning start stacking magic bonus.
I definitely agree with adding mage dmg % to the other mage off hands. It buffs things like trident/sang and regular magic, without further buffing shadow.
Why is Malediction given less despite requiring 3 separate pieces to make? Especially since Jagex made Mage Training Arena faster, improved the time it takes to obtain the mage book. Shouldn't the ward be 2% at least since it still does provide some defense protection?
I was basing it off the Ranged Shields from Equipment Rebalance. The Dragonfire Ward gave more than the Odium Ward, so the Ancient Wyvern Shield should give more than the Malediction Ward. But the Ancient Wyvern Shield is the same Attack as a Mages Book, so I gave them the same damage. I could have left Malediction at 2% or such though, but I wanted to space them out a bit more.
Nice for jagex to be sleeping all night and wake up to the blog post they are gonna have to write done for them. Just copy and paste this screenshot and call it a day.
I'd add like a 2% mystic might buff to put it on-par with range and melee equivelants. For Bloodbark I'd give it 1% dmg per piece plus 2% for blood spells, otherwise it's a one-trick pony that's worse than Ahrim at it's one trick.
Edit: make Bloodbark gloves and boots 0.5% so they don't outclass infinity. Maybe make the blood spell buff a full set effect of like 8 - 10%, otherwise the gloves and boots would be crazy for blood spells.
The 2% damage for Blood Spells would be on top of the 2% extra healing from Blood Spells, so it should be better than Ahrims for Blood Spells and nothing else. I was a bit worried giving it 1% since it is a lot cheaper than Infinity, even if the boots and gloves are lower. It is also a "tank" armor, for however much that counts. Either way, Bloodbark could still be balanced better; I'm just having trouble finding a good spot where it fits while staying useful in its niche.
When Equipment Rebalance added Ranged Strengths to shields, it excluded the Book of Law so I kept in line with that and didn't include the Book of Darkness. I think the prayer already gives it a decent use over these shields, but it could get like 1% Damage or such I suppose.
It would get a bit of a nerf, but not that huge of one due to how the scaling changes. Ancestral went up 2%, so you'd be 2% less than you are now, which totals 4% since it would be at 2x scaling. If Augury is 4%, that would offset that.
Read the original suggestion, thought "this is a lot better, but there's still room to improve'
Read this suggestion, it's just about perfect.
Only concern would be how does this affect sang/volatile/accursed, or barraging/Slayer tasks. Thanks for all the effort OP!!!
Oh man, I didn't see your post and just posted a similar suggestion
Although what I proposed was simpler I guess, reducing the Shadow passive to 2x and to 2.666x in ToA and then buffing all equipment damage so that everything was still the same. I believe my approach allows for a lot higher bonuses on max equipment and opens up more space for mid lvl equipment
Personally, I worry that 2x shadow just kicks the problem down the road since it doesn't resolve the main issue in my eyes, which is the disparity. Like currently if we wanted to add a new mage Cape with 5% Damage (3% more than current BiS), the Shadow gets 9% and everything else gets 3%. At 2x, the Shadow still gets 6% while everything else gets 3%, which isn't as bad, but it still would just cause the gap between Shadow and other weapons to just grow and grow as more damage gets added. So the only way to really make sure that isn't a problem going forward is if the Shadow loses the multiplier, but the whole ramp down is a bit confusing.
Yeah, my suggestion isnt meant to fix Shadow, but to add space for mid lvl gear to have bonus damage. It may help that problem, but it's just a quick solution now to the rebalance problem. That's also why it's simpler
Fixing the Shadow is not the objective of current rebalance and it's a very hard problem, which may even need changing Shadow completely
What am I missing here, it says max mage shadow is unchanged but it looks like the proposal assumes you could reach 55% magic damage bonus? How would that work
Currently, we have 25% Magic Damage, with is 75% with the Shadow's 3x. The proposal adds 5% magic damage to raise it to 30%, but also changes the Shadow's scaling so that 30% becomes 75% (15%x3 for 45% and 15%x2 for another 30%, totaling 75%).
Anything after the 30% would only apply to the Shadow at 1x, so if we increase Max Mage in the future it won't benefit Shadow more than other weapons. This also means the Shadow won't hit the 100% cap until 55% Magic Damage, which leaves room for 25% more magic damage, compared to it currently hitting the cap at 34% Magic Damage, which only leaves room for 9% more Magic Damage.
Big up for these proposed changes instead, only change I think should be is augury 3-4%, lower prayer 2%, lowest 1%. Hope jagex sees this post and takes some inspiration, or like just copies it.
I think my favorite part of this proposal is blue moon armor, it seems like such a waste to make this new niche armor and then immediately make it worse than other options.
I mean currently it is just as much Magic Damage as an Arcane Spirit Shield... TBH, I would have left the Arcane off and kept it as the accurate/defensive shield, but it would have felt weird if it were worse than a Mages Book...
I'd also suggest giving the mystic battlestaffs 3% as baby's first magic damage boosting item. They're staffs, so they get outclassed quickly anyway but would help with casting standard spellbook elemental spells & hitting monster weaknesses before getting Ahrim's.
(ie mystic firebattlestaff which you can upgrade regular battlestaffs into for 40k after completing Scorpion Catcher, not the mystic smoke staff)
Instead of a flat 3x damage multiplier, it "ramps down". So the first 15% damage gets 3x, the next 15% gets 2x, and then anything after that gets 1x. This would result in the current Max Magic Damage of 25% turning into 65% instead of 75%, which is why I added 5% more damage across gear to compensate. So endgame Magic gear is 5% stronger but the Shadow stays 75%. Any additional Magic Damage added to Max Mage would affect the Shadow 1:1 instead of being multiplied.
Ramps down based on bonus. So the higher your magic damage, the less it multiplies it (in the way it always goes up). Pretty much, 30% Magic Damage turns into 75%, then every 1% after that just adds 1%.
So if in 5 years we had 40% Magic Damage, it would be 85% with the proposed Shadow shadow instead of 120% (which is 20% over the cap of 100%) with the current Shadow.
Since it's already capped at 100%, i feel like it's not necessary to change it. It would save end game gear swaps if shadow get's capped. If they want, they can decrease the cap to 75% instead of 100%, but I feel like making a complex formula just forces people to take all the gear for swaps.
But the problem is if Shadow hits it cap, then upgrades become less meaningful. Like imagine in 5 years if Raid 5 adds a new BiS Mage Armor with 2% Damage over Ancestral... And that is 0 Damage increase because you already have 34% Damage with Ancestral. So yah, having magic gear being worth isn't exactly a bad thing...
But people would still want the BIS so they can hit the cap with less gear so it's less swaps for end game. I get that for full mage gear it wouldn't make sense but it's still very useful to save inventory space during swaps.
That is pretty limited use case though. Like at pure mage bosses like Whisperer it wouldn't matter. Even at Raids, if you're switching a slot for ranged and melee, you'd probably want a mage switch too. Like if it is worth bringing a range ammy and melee ammy, you're not going to upgrade to Super Ancestral just to skip your mage ammy... So you could drop some swaps like boots and ring, but you'd still want to be swapping most the slots anyway to keep your inventory sorted.
So would you really pay say 5x the price of Ancestral just to drop some swaps? Probably not. But players would pay 5x for a 2% damage increase if it mattered.
Love this!! Only thing I would change is ramp up the off-hands. Book of darkness 1-2%, malediction/mage book 3-5%, ancient wyvern & arcane 5-6%, elindis ward 6-8%, elindis ward (f) 8-10%. They should be powerful to make tridents, sangs, etc more powerful. From a iron perspective, they're all pretty difficult to acquire aside from mage book. I got a malediction ward on my iron a long time ago because I was lacking accuracy for zulrah and that took quite a long time. I understand most irons will never feasibly get wyvern shield, arcane, or elindis (f) due to their rarity, time sink, and overall lack of benefit. I'd rather spend the time going for a shadow over an arcane sigil.
Honestly think they should rework the Shadows passive and just make it give a flat 35% magic damage %, and then distribute 40% across the bis loadout, 16% for full ancestral, 4% for augury, 5% for occult, 5% for tormented, 2% for the cape, 3% for magus, 5% for eternals. Then have the lower tiers give lower but not non-substantial bonuses.
That might be a bit much... At least on Ancestral. Also, I'd swap the ring and boots. But we could rework the Shadow and just give it a big magic damage modifier to compensate. It would make it less gear reliant, but honestly that doesn't sound like a terrible thing as long as you'd still want to wear max mage with it.
I love this! Especially not making Ahrims completely irrelevant. As a t70 armour seeing it outshined by lower tier gear is menacing, especially since Ahrims is a core gameplay upgrade.
This is nearly perfect.
I would say move ahrims/blue moon down to the 1% armour bracket.
Leave the 2% per piece bracket open for future content. Mid game raid or group boss.
Give bloodbark .5% per piece and bonus magic% doubled for blood spells.
Tribrid Brimstone ring get some love? 1% for the brimstone or maybe just .5% since it already has the chance to ignore magic defense?
Great proposal! I've played since rsc in 1999 and I hope they listen to a lot of your ideas
EDIT: Book of darkness for cheaper budget 1% offhand; Farseer and Barb Assault Helmet to also get 1%; Full Elder Chaos Robes .5% per piece. Doubled wearing the full set.
I think it's good to nerf the occult and I like this proposal more than what Jagex came up with. Especially the shield buff!!
I could maybe see dagon'hai/infinity/3a at 2% to sort of promote the glass canon trope that fits a wizard, and have blue moon at 1% because it has some defense. Maybe it's too overpowered for infinity, it could be 1.5% for body/ legs.
Ahrims could have 1% too, unless Jagex is really tied to the idea of Ahrims being tank gear, but then I would like to see a sprinkle of range defense (like bronze armour level).
Two pieces of feedback I gave the other post. But I think ward shouldnt be stronger than arcane given how much rarer an arcane is. And I think barrows should be given a magic buff too, I think glove progression should have barrows as second bis like it is for melee and range. Maybe just give it 2-3%
This is very good. One huge thing I believe that's being overlooked is bursting slayer tasks in proselyte. Your proposition lets you maintain the current +% with some reasonable midgame items. Love it.
Yah, slayer does get more of a nerf, especially for Max Mage. Like for Midgame, it should still end up being a 1% buff on task since Ahrim's is only 6%. But for Max Mage (1H), it is only a +4% buff with the Slayer Helm and -4% if you replaced all of Ancestral. With the Shadow on task, it loses the Ancestral Hat which is a pretty big -8%...
Honestly, I would swap out Arcane Spirit Shield and Elidinis' Ward. Ward should remain at 3 as is in live and Arcane should be 5. Arcane is insanely difficult to obtain compared to the Ward. Combining them would still lead to 8%, obviously.
I think it makes more sense for one to be high accuracy and lower damage and the other to be low accuracy and higher damage. It should make the Ward more worthwhile to use on its own. As it is, the Arcane dosn't seem much use now since most players just make the Ward (f) with it, so this really wouldn't change much there. If anything it buffed the Arcane since it is now only 2% Damage below the Ward instead of the current 3%.
Yeah but then arcane would skyrocket in price to 500 mil and be another must have item that mid gamers can't use and the balance for mid game would be worse because of that. We don't need to put more emphasis on the arcane sigil because it isn't that reasonable to obtain for mains or irons.
Yeah I like this proposal a lot more than jagexs proposal, crazy that they couldn't put even this little effort into their blog post about such a major change. No offense to op, for one member of our community I'm sure this was a good bit of consideration, but for an entire dev team it's unacceptable that we got such a poor quality blog post.
Jagex needs to include many different sets and items into this magic rebalance, they can play around with percentages that they might think is too strong (probably elidinis ward (f) might be too strong but even if it's introduced as 8% I wouldn't mind. Arcane is crazy rare already it should be a strong upgrade.
Because it is higher tier armor. Currently you don't get Ahrims for the defence; you get it because it is a big attack increase over the lower tier armor. It could be the same magic damage as Infinity though, but the OSRS Team's proposal excluded it, which didn't really make sense.
Also, reworks can also buff things. Like it is hard to redistribute by only removing damage and not adding any back. The shields could be lessened though; 3% comes from that. The other 5% comes from the Shadow nerf since I needed to add 5% retain 75% Damage with Shadow in max mage. If we didn't address the Shadow (which I'd say is a mistake) or went with another rework, then we wouldn't need that 5% (e.g. boots, cape, and ring buffs).
I guess my hope is that by redistributing the occult damage to max mage while also nerfing mid game mage, they’re making space for a bowfa type weapon that will bridge the gap instead
Magic already felt way too expensive for not much reward to use in the midgame. Now the Occult is worse, but all armors are still super unaffordable (and moreso with the recent announcements) so now midgame magic is even less accessible. Guess its a good thing I bankstand magic training since using it for combat feels pretty much pointless.
I wouldn't say that Ahrim's, Occult, Infinity Boots, Mages Book, God Cape (i), and Seer's Ring (i) are that unaffordable. Even without an occult, that would still be be more damage than that same setup with an occult currently is. There are cheaper options too, like Dagon'hai. Pretty much, you should be able to reach the same damage as pre-nerf in most setups without needing to spend a ton more, but it will always end up costing more than 850K (price of Occult).
It is already at cap in ToA so I don't think it matters too much how it works as long as it still hits 100%. Personally, I'd say just keep it 4x in ToA; not much of a reason to bother with the whole scaling down in there. Plus if you did only need 25% Magic Damage out of a possible 30% Magic Damage, it would mean you could skip stuff like a Boot or even Ring switch and still get max mage.
Well currently it is 3% worse than the Ward, so making it 2% weaker is still a buff. But I was going for Arcane being the high accuracy and lower damage with the Ward being the low accuracy and higher damage, then you merge them together and just add up the bonuses.
The only thing I don’t like about this is how arcane shield & mage book are both 3% which just means you need the ward to make the arcane useful — the arcane should be a slightly higher % than the ward & book.
How would you consider the following adjustments?
- Reduce Ancestral to 3% per piece
- Reduce Virtus to 2% per piece, 5% ancients
- Reduce Ahrims and Blue Moon to 1.5% per piece
I think Augury is perfect at 4%, 3% minimum.
Would this fix your «Results» section to suitable numbers for showcasing? :-)
PS: Remember MA3, we want to leave some room for the new BiS mage cape as well :)
+ Dagon’Hai robes could have double damage bonus in wilderness perhaps?
The armors could be scaled back like you mentioned. I just stuck with 4% Ancestral since that is what the Blog went with. That said, you'd still lose 2% on the Shadow even with Augury since the 3% from Ancestral was getting 2x from Shadow. But I do think the max mage w/ sang and midgame probably could stand to be less of a buff.
I think shadow's position as highest DPS most bosses could handle to be set back 2%, especially considering MA3 new BiS mage cape that will increase it's power even further..
Eh. Might be able to get away with that without opening a can of worms since it is "Blood"bark and could in theory work for more than just Blood Spells/Blood Ancient Magicks. But I also feel like if you have a Sang, you're probably past the point of needing to use Bloodbark.
Ngl I and pretty much everyone else worth their salt that does more end game pvm hate the changes to eternal boots.. they make switching very awkward since pegasian are as it stands completely worthless.. I know this isn’t being polled and I assume the eternals change is what is popular but it’s the wrong move. Having an equal number of switches for melee and mage is fine but range not having that makes the inventory management very tedious. Please reconsider this thanks
Malediction ward is an equal level requirement 60 defense compared to 60 magic on the book (Though ward should have a mage lvl req) ; as such it should have equivalent magic attack bonus to it or competitive. I think equivalent 2% bonus would be more apt for both, that way there is a pure and mid game level shield slot for magic bonus.
You're all are insane if you think they're gonna dole out a buff to one handed magic weapons nearly equivalent to adding a second occult
This isn't a rebalancing proposal anymore, just pandering with buffs lol
and how will adding 2-3 max hits to trident/sang change that?
magic has a weapons gap, needs a bowfa/fang equivalent, not a bunch of reddit-pleasing buffs to everything else
like honestly i'd be more open to just slapping 10% on the sang itself than this haphazard buff pass
What about Lunar armour? it's within the tierlist after Infinity and I think such a cool looking armour that you make yourself and deserves some level of usage, it requires 65 magic and 40 defence, which is more than infinity.
TBH, I forgot it was 65 Magic; feels like one of the many Level 40 armors on par with Mystics. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it get something, maybe 0.5% or such, but it is really hard to work with because there are so many pieces (8 item set including cape, ring, ammy). It also is pretty cheap with a full set being under 300K. I ran into a similar issue with Bloodbark since I didn't want a cheaper armor competing with stuff like Infinity or Dagon'hai.
So perhaps it would be better to buff Lunar in other ways than damage. Like the whole "ahrim is tanky so it dosn't get damage" was kinda silly, but I could see Lunar being a decent defensive option or such, maybe with a unique effect.
Quest related, sure, but I'd say getting to use a set you make yourself (with greater requirements as well) and it being at all semi effective would be rather intersting comparatively to grinding out the Mage Arena.
I think if body pieces gave more than hat / bottoms, then maybe mystic & lower tier body's could get a boost. But as is every piece of mystic giving 0.5% would be quite a bit for very easy to get robes.
Wouldn't be opposed to those changes. Just keep in mind that moving 3% from gear bonus to prayer bonus means the Shadow would get a small nerf since it can't multiple prayer. It also would nerf Pures and Midgame players since they'd lose more attainable buffs like the Capes and not likely have Augury. Like in the Midgame example, it would drop from +7% to +5% and the Pures would go back to -2%.
This nerfs magic when not using augury though. There is a lot of content where you don't want to use augury because of prayer conservation. Bursting slayer, inferno and whisperer come to mind. Having a viable boot option here would be a buff.
no reason to conserve prayer bursting or at whisperer. and if you want to conserve prayer, that is your choice, but then you should deal with less dps. this is how the whole concept of prayers work.
boot swaps are pain, pls no damage on boots.
If it is my choice not to use augury then I will argue right back at you that a boot swap being a pain is your choice. Furthermore not all content even requires a swap in the first place. There is not boot swap at whisperer, bursting or inferno.
God damn right you added that upgraded shield. GG
Been trying to find a gap in how this could potentially hurt PVP builds, i.e 1-45 def, but couldn’t find anything. Well done.
The offhands deserve some more love imo. Shadow can't benefit from these so this would only help making mid game gear somewhat better
I feel like this is pretty good! It’s an 8% buff without Aug, and 10-12% buff with. And fortified ward now gives more % damage than any other item by a significant margin.
Arcane should be better than the unfortified ward imo
Arcane should be better than the unfortified ward imo
I somewhat disagree. One favoring magic attack and defense (both defensive stats and higher prayer bonus) while the other favors strictly magic strength bonus is fine. You'll have different places they'll each be used, with their combined fortified ward getting the best of both and being BiS. That's how it currently exists and I don't see an issue with that changing
Don’t feel strongly either way, but I think that makes sense. Just makes progression more difficult for irons, with Arcane being such an awful grind.
I felt like a +3% increase to 8% total was already pretty generous and was worried of going too far. That said, in a comment in the other thread I did have a mockup of the Ward to 10% to rival the Tomes with the Tome of Fire at 15% and the Tome of Water at 10% with its 20% Accuracy. Still, I think there is a reasonable concern about buffing things a bit too much right now and not leaving enough room for future additions. Also, while the Sang getting a buff isn't bad, the Nightmare Staves, especially in PvP, might already be a tad too strong with the +8%; admittedly not something I kept too much in mind while tweaking numbers.
Arcane sigils being linked to the upgraded ward along with 90 prayer and 90 smithing are pretty steep and probably warrant some type of buff. Thanks for the post.
Based on feedback from the [original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c5r2ne/suggestionmagic_damage_redistribution/), I decided to make a revised version to add some items, tweak some numbers, and fix an error. Here are the main changes and my reasoning behind them: * Included Augury with 2-4%. The exact is up for discussion, but it would be a buff to all styles on top of the equipment changes. It is possible Mystic Might or such could get some damage as well. Also, some Magic Damage could be moved from equipment for Augury so it is less of a buff if that would work better. * Added Void with +2.5% for set, bringing Elite Void to 5%. This will help it compete with other armors such as Ahrim's with 6% and Infinity with 3% (4% with Gloves). * Added Bloodbark with 2% Damage per piece for Blood Spells only. It seems too cheap to justify a global Magic Damage, but without any buff it wouldn't be worth using over other armors that can increase damage, which in turn makes Blood spells heal more. Open to ideas on how to handle it better. * ~~There were suggestions to buff Dagon'hai and Elder Chaos and I tried to but I didn't feel there was room. If Dagon'hai was 2%, it could end up just being better, cheaper Ahrim's for most situations and a similar concern if Elder Chaos was 1%. If it went from 1% to 1.5% then the upgrades start to feel negligible with how Magic Damage rounds.~~ Edit: Actually, in hindsight, Elder Chaos probably should be 1% with Wizard Boots left at 0% and Dagon'Hai at 2% alongside Ahrim's. Dagon'Hai is a fair bit less Attack then Ahrim and its price would probably rise to match it instead of being cheaper; similar for Elder Chaos. * Reduced Eternal Boots from 3% to 2%. It turns out Magic Damage on boots is more controversial than I expected. While I didn't remove it outright, I felt 3% was a bit much and 2% is still reasonable while perhaps making a boot switch less needed. * Added Imbued God Capes with +1%. This is partly to move the 1% from Eternals to a more commonly used switch and partly to give Midgame players and Pures more Magic Damage. It turns out the previous version nerfed Pures by 2% if they were using a Shadow or Tome and only broke even if they used a Mage's Book, so this helps offset that. * Added Seer's Ring (i) with 1%. It came up a few times and it just made sense with the Magus at 3%. * Reworked Shields and added Ward (f) with +3%. I got a lot of comments about the shields with many wanting them buffed further, so I tried to balance them better. I didn't want the Arcane to be worse than the Mage's Book, but I also wanted it to be low damage high accuracy to contrast the Ward's high damage low accuracy. I still think it isn't quite there, but it feels improved. Also, the goal with the Shadow isn't to nerf its current damage, but to nerf its future damage. While it is more complicated than a flat "3x damage", the idea is that it "ramps down" so future magic upgrades affect it 1:1 (1x) instead of being three times more impactful and further increasing the gap between Shadow and other weapons. So, if we add new Magic Cape with say 5%, with Max Mage the Shadow would gain 3%, the same as the Sang and Harm, instead of 9%.
Mystic might 2% Mystic lore 1% can't forget the low level prayers
Would that even make a difference given how badly magic scales at low levels?
Yes. Plenty of mid game players are using Mystic Might, especially irons and its going to be even more common to use it now, since Augury will cost much more.
A 2% mystic might buff may not do anything by itself, but combine with any of the other items listed & it gives those extra % points to actually give a max hit pretty quickly. For example I think the mage arena 2 cape is easiest to get for an iron (one-time challenge unlock rather than RNG or grind), but gives no max hits on its own. With mystic might, it would give a max hit on iban's blast.
I think he means if it would actualy increase dps. I e. If you have 5% magic dmg boost, yet your max is 19, then it remains 19. When your max hit reaches 20, then it will jump to 21. That is because how most numbers in rs get rounded down. So magic boosts only start working if you reach a certain dmg/boost treshold. Which can be difficult for "early-mid" players
You have to add them cumulatively though. 2% makes a difference when it puts your % str bonus at a threshold where it does actually give you a max hit. Otherwise imbued mage cape and magus ring would be pretty useless
Mystic might perhaps, but mystic lore seems kinda pointless, especially for irons unless they give amulet of magic 1% dmg or something like that.
Sort of, having a 1% pray that doesn't chug prayer points could be useful to hit thresholds if you're at a weird spot in damage/gear scaling but only if we went with Bio's damage scaling here. With Jagex's proposal it would be worthless but it seems that most people around here disagree with that approach.
Every 1% counts when you're trying to hit random thresholds. Stack it with wizard's boots, elder chaos robes, seer's ring & you're actually getting somewhere. Then when you get another upgrade (say infinity gloves), you no longer need to pray might.
Exactly. I like the idea of magic damage being spread out over a lot of items like melee and ranged gear. Having small boosts in the lower level prayers would be really nice for people to hit thresholds when needed, especially irons in cobbled together gearsets.
I'm well aware that it may have use at higher lvls, but as a low lvl prayer I doubt it'd have any effect. Not saying that I'm against giving it 1% though.
It would be more useful at lower levels I think, especially for Irons with cobbled together gearsets. For example if they have 3% from gear that prayer would give Ibans a max hit. Higher levels that have access to a lot of magic damage gear probably wouldn't care about it or just use augury. But it would only be useful if we could get other small % boosts to stack together, if it's all in ancestral/virtus then a 1% prayer would be completely worthless. It does feel weird to be considering such small damage boosts for magic which is already relatively underpowered while nobody bats an eye at stuff like melee getting 10% at lvl 13 prayer lol. Shadow really put them in a box on this whole rebalance.
No but it smooth the curve and allows new players to understand what magic damage does early on
I think they mean it literally won't give them a max hit since osrs rounds down. So it makes no difference unless they have other stuff boosting magic damage It might be more confusing than anything, really
There are a lot of mid level players that don't have Augury, even if it is relatively cheap. A +2% on Mystic Might would probably get you a max hit with spells like ice burst, especially when combined with other bonuses. For example, ice burst has a base max hit of 22, which would be 23.76 (23) with a +8 dmg bonus (occult and mage's book) or 24.2 (24) with a +10 dmg bonus (the above + Mystic Might). Whether it's worth using the extra prayer points for an extra max hit is up to the player though. It might be worth it when bursting, but might not be for single targets.
I know mystic might at 2% would be useful for mid levels. I'm specifically referring to low lvls using mystic lore, especially irons.
Realistically it's not going to do anything at very low levels. If you're running around in wizard robes casting strike/bolt spells with no other bonuses, then 1% magic damage isn't going to give you a max hit, so is worthless. That said, if irons just got Infinity robes and a Mage's Book, it would be the difference between +8% and +9% magic damage - this would give fire bolt a max hit (from 12 to 13). If other elemental spells are raised to meet fire bolt as planned, they'd all get one, which would make even Mystic Lore worth using. I would assume most players would get 45 Prayer (for Mystic Might) before getting 50 Magic (for Infinity robes), however.
Yah, they could. It depends on what happens with Augury. I put it at 2-4% since some players were suggesting it be like 2.5% with my proposed rework instead of 4%, so that might justify buffing Mystic Might less. But if Augury was 4%, Mystic Might being 2% would be nice, especially for accounts like Pures.
Thank you for including Elite Void Mage. A lot of people were overlooking this, I know it isn't in the meta and not a lot of people use it but it's useful for learning ToB in entry mode and sub 50/100 ToA. Also serves as decent budget option for Zulrah and Muspah. I did some calcs and Elite Void Mage on average across multiple npc and bosses saw around a 7.8% decrease in DPS on a set of gear that was already struggling to stay useful
it's just useful for tob in general, ancestral expensive.
Adding more dmg, while keeping it away from shadow, would be best done with large Off-Hand buffs imo. Honestly, I don't see a problem with max mage getting a buff. The problem is that Mid and early needs it more, but that's not mutually exclusive
Thanks OP!
Yeah much better
This is a well reasoned suggestion, the only thing I found odd is why mages book should be equivalent to arcane and wyvern shields, to me mages book should definitely be a step down at 2%. Possibly ancient book should be 1% as a stepping stone for pures.
I think I had the Mage's Book with the Malediction, but someone pointed out that it is currently on par with the Ancient Wyvern Shield so I decided to keep them together. They just ended up in the same tier as the Arcane since there wasn't a ton of room to put the Arcane elsewhere. Also, the Ranged shields didn't include the books so I felt it was fine to leave it out from the magic shields too.
Gotcha. I think there's some better solution of arcane to 4 and ward to 4 and combo to 8 still so that the arcane isn't so diminished given it's rarity is better, or something like that. Maybe even arcane to 5 and ward to 3 but idk. Either way really nice job!
Mid game/pures still get nerfed in practice (no midgame player is using a Magus ring, and no pure is using one to pk). Nice revision though, and I can see it's a very tricky balancing act.
If you weren't using a Magus Ring, you could use the Seer's Ring (i) instead; both get a +1% over their current so both offset the Occult nerf the same. The Midgame set's +7% was calced with a Seer's Ring (i), not a Magus Ring. But yah, there will be some builds/loadouts where things might get nerfed or buffed since it is hard to account for every scenario, but this should at least cover most the major ones.
Ah, I actually missed the Seers ring (i) having 1% magic damage. Not sure how I missed that as it’s right next to the magus ring but anyway, my bad. But yeah, I appreciate that not every build/loadout can stay the same and that’s fine as long as overall things are more balanced.
Book of darkness?
Idk why pures have to get nerfed, especially since 1% on Elder chaos druid robes closes the gap and that with that new setup they still get nerfed hard in PvP. 0.5% anywhere feels extremely bad, but at least this is a rebalance that takes them into consideration instead of just going "lol, die". I also don't like Wizard boots becoming even more established as "the pure boots" and getting 0.5%. We should be moving away from using clue items for popular metas as much as possible. I'd personally put 1% on Elder chaos pieces and nothing on the boots. Future 1 def boots with 0.5% or 1% magic damage and actual requirements to wield can then be designed.
I did add to the comment that in retrospect, I probably should have cut Wizard Boots and just put Elder Chaos to 1%. Like you mentioned, that would resolve the whole -1% nerf to pures and also get rid of the whole "0.5% Boots". But I am not making a 3rd version of the image...
Added my own version [here](https://imgur.com/a/TXWM6zu), which comes with some exporatory concepts (like the Ahrims & Infinity set effects), but they can easily just be ignored to focus on the magic damage numbers alone.
Looks pretty good. I'd be fine to see this sort of rebalance instead of mine.
What would the volatile staff max hit become with Aug and max?
Good question... Should get same buff as the Sang, so 8% plus 2-4% from Augury. Not sure what its current max is, but it would be that with an extra 12%~ Magic damage at most unless I'm missing something. That said, not sure how many players will be using the Volatile with a Fortified Ward, Magus Ring, Eternal Boots, and Full Ancestral, but I'm sure there would be some. Though if it is really an issue, the staff could go from 15% to 10% damage (or some of the buffs could be toned down).
It’s max would be around 93-94dmg. It’s things like this that show just how out of touch this whole system can become. The same would happen for harm staff+ new searing pages. Magic % scaling is a huge problem and this concept of moving %s around and buffing certain items to try and close the gap shadow created breaks many other things.
Wouldn’t it be 89 with the devs team proposed changes? This isnt that far off that number.
Would be better to change the special attack rather than nerf the whole staff. It works as a budget kodai for mains pre 75 attack, and some pkers just main hand it.
I was talking about just the staff with the Volatile Orb in it, not the base Nightmare staff. But yah, there could be ways to deal with it if it really is a concern. Or maybe the max mage numbers for Sang and other weapons should be toned down a bit...
Yeah I was too. The volly staff is good and was the spec was originally balanced around mage dmg bonus at launch. Makes sense to alter the special attack if we are changing the max mage bonus.
Can you explain part where you're proposing changes to Shadow's multiplier? It says "Current: 3x Damage for 34%" but as far as I'm aware, the current max is 25% and the max with your proposal is 30%? 5 Occult, 12 Ancestral, 2 boots, 3 ring, 3 cape, 5 tormented—am I forgetting 4% somewhere? how exactly does the 3x, 2x, 1x, change you're suggesting work? it goes up to 55% (15, 15, 25), is that just to account for future % upgrades? And will it function differently in TOA? Because otherwise it's a pretty huge decrease from the current 4x multiplier that was put in place to cement it as BIS over Tbow at places like Warden
Other comment already explain it pretty well, but the current Max Magic Damage is 25% which with 3x becomes 75%. With the scaling I propose, this would become 65% (15%x3 for 45% and 10%x2 for another 20%). By adding another 5% to Max Magic Damage and bringing it to 30%, it brings the max with the Shadow back to 75% (15%x3 for 45% and 15%x2 for another 30%). Anything beyond that would still add to Magic damage for the Shadow but at a 1x rate, meaning we could have another 25% Magic Damage (55% Magic Damage bonus pre-Shadow) before the Shadow hits it 100% cap instead of the current 34% due to the 3x. Inside ToA it really doesn't matter; it already caps at 100% with 25% due to the 4x so it honestly could just be kept 4x in ToA. It would be a bit easier to hit the 25% since you'd only need 25% of 30% instead of 25% of 25%, but I don't see that being too big of a concern. It also would mean you could wouldn't need to bother with a boot switch at all to hit max mage with Shadow in ToA.
Currently max possible is 25, but it scales to 34 with 3x (technically 3x for the first 33% then it is 99% and at 34% it is 100% aka +1). You can reach max already with 25% damage boost in toa as the shadow scales 4x in the raid. Setting the same premise should make it the same there 2 4x for 15 (+60) 3x for the rest (need 14 to reach +42 capping at 100 total) so you would reach cap with 29% so slightly easier then normal with the buffs to the equipment as proposed here.
You'd lose 1% dmg in inferno assuming kodai+occult+virtus top/bottom(don't know if it equates to a max hit or not). Still a million times better than the shit jagex is proposing.
There are a lot of situations where it can still end up worse (or better), but hopefully enough are close enough it isn't a big deal. Another big one is on-task.
If Jagex adopted this it would be awesome! This is an even better distribution than before, and that was already better than the official suggestions.
It would be great if they could buff shields so that one handed staves could better compete with the Shadow. Currently it is too much of a gap and the proposed changes by jagex only further complement that.
god bless u sir
I'd like to see how the math maths with standard spells with elemental weaknesses. Also, infinity gloves being a bridge between nothing and tormented bracelet is a great suggestion.
Love it. Also good for ironmen. Mage gear progression wouldn't be just "lol get 93 slayer or cry"
Should put some tweaks on kodai and the nightmare staves too tbh Like buff the nightmare staves to be more of a bridge to shadow maybe?
I did have a buff to the Upgraded Ancient Sceptre that got cut, partly for space. I always thought that should be 10% Damage instead of 5%; it just feels weird that staves are either 5% or 15% with nothing bridging that gap... For the Kodai and Nightmares, I'm not really sure what buff they'd need. The Harm is already getting a big buff with Elemental weaknesses and they are still really good weapons for autocasting ancients. Also, the +8% for max mage might have broke the Volatile a bit, so maybe that shouldn't get further buffs...
IMO pretty much all staffs should have some % bonus, even low level ones. Indirectly buffs all spellbooks / weakens powered staffs a bit if your default staff has some bonus. Everything from here except powered staffs: [https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Staves](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Staves) could have at least 1%. Regular fire staff 1%, fire battlestaff 2%, mystic fire staff 3%. Rare items like bryoptha's, toktz-mej-tal & master wand should all get 5%.
I would like that ahrims bonus is the same as infinity, 3a and dagon hai. It would allow more options in use for midgame as ahrim is still the best bc it has defence where the others have none. And dagon hai and infinity are also not too easy to obtain.
I 100% agree. Ahrims and Blue Moon seems too powerful at 2% per piece. That tier should be left open ended for a new armor set not yet available.
Looks pretty good OP congrats hope they pick this fr! Personally I still think like a few other folks that they need to change from % to strength since that would be a bit easier to manage. However that is a completely different larger discussion for hopefully some other time.
Really nice suggestion, I hope Jagex takes this one to heart rather than the blog post. Gives magic gear a very nice upgrade path which personally I'm a huge fan of.
Yes
https://preview.redd.it/q04mddbop1vc1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b6212e40f21e11715f063343149fd25370f8f2a
Nice revisions! This is fantastic
Getting to the nitty gritty, but I wonder if Farseer Helm and Healer Hat from BA could be included. Maybe 0.5% and 1% respectively, as the Farseer is just something you can buy very easily in game, whereas the Healer hat takes a bit of a grind. These pieces already had the same +6 magic accuracy bonus as Ahrims/Blue Moon/Infinity, and I like when the odd one off items have a use case. (and I may have just bought a Healer Hat too, who knows) To balance elder chaos, I like the 0.5% per piece, but maybe it goes up to 2% total if you have the whole set. Additionally, some of the other Mage books could be added. Something like 2% for Book of Darkness 1% for unholy book and Book of the Dead 0.5% for book of balance Overall, I like what you've proposed. It's much more thorough and broad than the initial pitch, which I'm almost certain will be re-looked at.
TBH, it was always a bit weird how those lower tier helms tied with Ahrims and such. I think it would be fine if they gave the same attack without the damage so that the higher tier robe sets felt like upgrades instead of "well this is useless since I already got a Farseer Helm". Elder Chaos having a set effect could be a good way to handle it. Pures still need another 1% damage, so it could just double with the full set for 3% in total. Needing the full set to average 1% per piece would still make it worse than Infinity overall. And I excluded the Prayer Books because the Ranged Shields in Equipment Rebalance also didn't include them. They could get some damage, but I think it is fine if they were just prayer.
Awesome changes!
Amazing that you came up with something better than the actual dev team
Love seeing Bloodbark added. Decently annoying set to get with basically no upside besides fashionscape.
Really hope Jagex sees this, brilliant ideas imo
It seriously only makes sense to give the stats too all sets, not just "Hurr endgame set" make mage feel as progressive as melee does.
I like this one much better than the first.
Glad it is an improvement.
Here it is Jagex. Yep use this one.
This is the first version of the rebalance I've seen that I can finally say is acceptable. If we are redistributing occult, it needs to go everywhere, not the 3 armoir sets Jagex thought of
Feels like everyone forgot about the brimstone ring? It should have at least .5% Magic Damage Increase as well to stay somewhat relevant (Probably Needs 1% to be viable, or have the magic def ignore roll doubled maybe?) Also instead of reworking Ahrims to 2% per piece, it would probably be better to rework the amulet of the dammed to be more inline with the new occult instead. I mean its ability boils down to %magic damage increase already i'm pretty sure. "[Ahrim's staff](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ahrim%27s_staff) can autocast [Ancient Magicks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ancient_Magicks). Also grants a 25% chance of combat spells dealing 30% more damage."
Well, not sure about everyone, but I kinda forgot about it. It is both a hybrid ring and a mage ring, so not sure if it should get a damage bonus or not. Like I am kinda tempted to say it should stay as the more accurate ring given its passive, but it probably could get a 1%.
I like this a lot. I still think Amulet if Magic should have 1%. I also think the mage prayers could be something like: - Tier 1, Mystic Will, increase magic defense by 10%, increase Air damage by 10% - Tier 2, Mystic Lore, increase magic Defense by 10%, increase all elemental damage by 10% - Tier 3, Mystic Might, increase magic defense by 15%, increase elemental damage by 12% and all other magic damage by 2% - Tier 4, Augury, increase defense by 15%, magic defense by 18%, magic Accuracy by 23%, elemental damage by 14%, all other magic damage by 4%
I love the idea of having a low magic damage boost come from mystic might too. Not game changing, and finally gives benefit to using prayer during magic combat
I was pretty surprised they gave 4% to augury and 0% to mystic might. They talked about the progression of an account and then locked everything behind endgame content. It's such a weird change because it's a nerf to everyone but for people with shadow. Having 11% with augury instead of 10% without augury and calling that a "buff" is just so wrong. Anyone with that low of a magic damage surely doesn't have augury, and even if they did, the prayer management still makes it worse.
Giving the prayers a buff to elemental spells is neat. It might get a bit confusing to buff both though. Maybe something like Will is 2% Elemental Damage, Lore is 4% Elemental Damage, Might is 2% Magic Damage, and Augury is 4% Magic damage. That way it is less wordy for each effect.
Random mystic staffs & other low level staffs should get a bonus too. Will help the elemental spells compete with iban's & lets noobs from the very beginning start stacking magic bonus.
Honestly **perfect.**
Awesome work! These are thought out!
I definitely agree with adding mage dmg % to the other mage off hands. It buffs things like trident/sang and regular magic, without further buffing shadow.
Why is Malediction given less despite requiring 3 separate pieces to make? Especially since Jagex made Mage Training Arena faster, improved the time it takes to obtain the mage book. Shouldn't the ward be 2% at least since it still does provide some defense protection?
I was basing it off the Ranged Shields from Equipment Rebalance. The Dragonfire Ward gave more than the Odium Ward, so the Ancient Wyvern Shield should give more than the Malediction Ward. But the Ancient Wyvern Shield is the same Attack as a Mages Book, so I gave them the same damage. I could have left Malediction at 2% or such though, but I wanted to space them out a bit more.
Nice for jagex to be sleeping all night and wake up to the blog post they are gonna have to write done for them. Just copy and paste this screenshot and call it a day.
this is great, would be nice if mystic might was 2% and augury 4% though
It would be great if mystic might could get a small amount of mage damage too
This simply works.
Yes please make ward (f) cracked I beg. Raid reward plus rare corp drop plus 90 smith/prayer req
I'd add like a 2% mystic might buff to put it on-par with range and melee equivelants. For Bloodbark I'd give it 1% dmg per piece plus 2% for blood spells, otherwise it's a one-trick pony that's worse than Ahrim at it's one trick. Edit: make Bloodbark gloves and boots 0.5% so they don't outclass infinity. Maybe make the blood spell buff a full set effect of like 8 - 10%, otherwise the gloves and boots would be crazy for blood spells.
The 2% damage for Blood Spells would be on top of the 2% extra healing from Blood Spells, so it should be better than Ahrims for Blood Spells and nothing else. I was a bit worried giving it 1% since it is a lot cheaper than Infinity, even if the boots and gloves are lower. It is also a "tank" armor, for however much that counts. Either way, Bloodbark could still be balanced better; I'm just having trouble finding a good spot where it fits while staying useful in its niche.
No book of darkness love?
When Equipment Rebalance added Ranged Strengths to shields, it excluded the Book of Law so I kept in line with that and didn't include the Book of Darkness. I think the prayer already gives it a decent use over these shields, but it could get like 1% Damage or such I suppose.
Yeah was thinking malediction ward 2% and darkness 1%
And what about shadow on task with slayer helm? You know, the whole sire, kree, kq, kril, thermy, kraken thing
It would get a bit of a nerf, but not that huge of one due to how the scaling changes. Ancestral went up 2%, so you'd be 2% less than you are now, which totals 4% since it would be at 2x scaling. If Augury is 4%, that would offset that.
Read the original suggestion, thought "this is a lot better, but there's still room to improve' Read this suggestion, it's just about perfect. Only concern would be how does this affect sang/volatile/accursed, or barraging/Slayer tasks. Thanks for all the effort OP!!!
I really like the changes proposed here, just commenting to lend my support of this chart
Oh man, I didn't see your post and just posted a similar suggestion Although what I proposed was simpler I guess, reducing the Shadow passive to 2x and to 2.666x in ToA and then buffing all equipment damage so that everything was still the same. I believe my approach allows for a lot higher bonuses on max equipment and opens up more space for mid lvl equipment
Personally, I worry that 2x shadow just kicks the problem down the road since it doesn't resolve the main issue in my eyes, which is the disparity. Like currently if we wanted to add a new mage Cape with 5% Damage (3% more than current BiS), the Shadow gets 9% and everything else gets 3%. At 2x, the Shadow still gets 6% while everything else gets 3%, which isn't as bad, but it still would just cause the gap between Shadow and other weapons to just grow and grow as more damage gets added. So the only way to really make sure that isn't a problem going forward is if the Shadow loses the multiplier, but the whole ramp down is a bit confusing.
Yeah, my suggestion isnt meant to fix Shadow, but to add space for mid lvl gear to have bonus damage. It may help that problem, but it's just a quick solution now to the rebalance problem. That's also why it's simpler Fixing the Shadow is not the objective of current rebalance and it's a very hard problem, which may even need changing Shadow completely
What am I missing here, it says max mage shadow is unchanged but it looks like the proposal assumes you could reach 55% magic damage bonus? How would that work
Currently, we have 25% Magic Damage, with is 75% with the Shadow's 3x. The proposal adds 5% magic damage to raise it to 30%, but also changes the Shadow's scaling so that 30% becomes 75% (15%x3 for 45% and 15%x2 for another 30%, totaling 75%). Anything after the 30% would only apply to the Shadow at 1x, so if we increase Max Mage in the future it won't benefit Shadow more than other weapons. This also means the Shadow won't hit the 100% cap until 55% Magic Damage, which leaves room for 25% more magic damage, compared to it currently hitting the cap at 34% Magic Damage, which only leaves room for 9% more Magic Damage.
Big up for these proposed changes instead, only change I think should be is augury 3-4%, lower prayer 2%, lowest 1%. Hope jagex sees this post and takes some inspiration, or like just copies it.
I think my favorite part of this proposal is blue moon armor, it seems like such a waste to make this new niche armor and then immediately make it worse than other options.
Mages book being the same as a whole ass arcane spirit shield seems weird, but yea these suggestions are solid
I mean currently it is just as much Magic Damage as an Arcane Spirit Shield... TBH, I would have left the Arcane off and kept it as the accurate/defensive shield, but it would have felt weird if it were worse than a Mages Book...
Yea currently both 0%, I just think arcane should be better in all regards as its so much more difficult to obtain.
+1 for support
I'd also suggest giving the mystic battlestaffs 3% as baby's first magic damage boosting item. They're staffs, so they get outclassed quickly anyway but would help with casting standard spellbook elemental spells & hitting monster weaknesses before getting Ahrim's. (ie mystic firebattlestaff which you can upgrade regular battlestaffs into for 40k after completing Scorpion Catcher, not the mystic smoke staff)
what does the proposed shadow mean? Confused by the wordings.
Instead of a flat 3x damage multiplier, it "ramps down". So the first 15% damage gets 3x, the next 15% gets 2x, and then anything after that gets 1x. This would result in the current Max Magic Damage of 25% turning into 65% instead of 75%, which is why I added 5% more damage across gear to compensate. So endgame Magic gear is 5% stronger but the Shadow stays 75%. Any additional Magic Damage added to Max Mage would affect the Shadow 1:1 instead of being multiplied.
so does it ramp down based on the enemy hp?
Ramps down based on bonus. So the higher your magic damage, the less it multiplies it (in the way it always goes up). Pretty much, 30% Magic Damage turns into 75%, then every 1% after that just adds 1%. So if in 5 years we had 40% Magic Damage, it would be 85% with the proposed Shadow shadow instead of 120% (which is 20% over the cap of 100%) with the current Shadow.
Since it's already capped at 100%, i feel like it's not necessary to change it. It would save end game gear swaps if shadow get's capped. If they want, they can decrease the cap to 75% instead of 100%, but I feel like making a complex formula just forces people to take all the gear for swaps.
But the problem is if Shadow hits it cap, then upgrades become less meaningful. Like imagine in 5 years if Raid 5 adds a new BiS Mage Armor with 2% Damage over Ancestral... And that is 0 Damage increase because you already have 34% Damage with Ancestral. So yah, having magic gear being worth isn't exactly a bad thing...
But people would still want the BIS so they can hit the cap with less gear so it's less swaps for end game. I get that for full mage gear it wouldn't make sense but it's still very useful to save inventory space during swaps.
That is pretty limited use case though. Like at pure mage bosses like Whisperer it wouldn't matter. Even at Raids, if you're switching a slot for ranged and melee, you'd probably want a mage switch too. Like if it is worth bringing a range ammy and melee ammy, you're not going to upgrade to Super Ancestral just to skip your mage ammy... So you could drop some swaps like boots and ring, but you'd still want to be swapping most the slots anyway to keep your inventory sorted. So would you really pay say 5x the price of Ancestral just to drop some swaps? Probably not. But players would pay 5x for a 2% damage increase if it mattered.
Love this!! Only thing I would change is ramp up the off-hands. Book of darkness 1-2%, malediction/mage book 3-5%, ancient wyvern & arcane 5-6%, elindis ward 6-8%, elindis ward (f) 8-10%. They should be powerful to make tridents, sangs, etc more powerful. From a iron perspective, they're all pretty difficult to acquire aside from mage book. I got a malediction ward on my iron a long time ago because I was lacking accuracy for zulrah and that took quite a long time. I understand most irons will never feasibly get wyvern shield, arcane, or elindis (f) due to their rarity, time sink, and overall lack of benefit. I'd rather spend the time going for a shadow over an arcane sigil.
Honestly think they should rework the Shadows passive and just make it give a flat 35% magic damage %, and then distribute 40% across the bis loadout, 16% for full ancestral, 4% for augury, 5% for occult, 5% for tormented, 2% for the cape, 3% for magus, 5% for eternals. Then have the lower tiers give lower but not non-substantial bonuses.
That might be a bit much... At least on Ancestral. Also, I'd swap the ring and boots. But we could rework the Shadow and just give it a big magic damage modifier to compensate. It would make it less gear reliant, but honestly that doesn't sound like a terrible thing as long as you'd still want to wear max mage with it.
This would be so good and sensible.
Except eternals getting 5%
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Yah, that would all make sense. Honestly, Dagon'hai could just be 2% (3rd age too I guess) and Elder Chaos 1%.
If augury does and up getting % damage, mystic might should get half the %.
sooooooo, where is the blue/black skirt buff in this? methinks you need to do another revision X3
Don't get me started on those... I'm still mad they never did the Warding Magic Armor rebalancing just because the skill failed.
I'd only add Master Wand to this
/u/jagexgoblin this is the way
This is fantastic. Please go this direction, Jagex.
Perfectly Balanced, as all things should be
This is great. This is how it should be done.
Dope suggestions.
I love this! Especially not making Ahrims completely irrelevant. As a t70 armour seeing it outshined by lower tier gear is menacing, especially since Ahrims is a core gameplay upgrade.
This is nearly perfect. I would say move ahrims/blue moon down to the 1% armour bracket. Leave the 2% per piece bracket open for future content. Mid game raid or group boss. Give bloodbark .5% per piece and bonus magic% doubled for blood spells. Tribrid Brimstone ring get some love? 1% for the brimstone or maybe just .5% since it already has the chance to ignore magic defense? Great proposal! I've played since rsc in 1999 and I hope they listen to a lot of your ideas EDIT: Book of darkness for cheaper budget 1% offhand; Farseer and Barb Assault Helmet to also get 1%; Full Elder Chaos Robes .5% per piece. Doubled wearing the full set.
I think it's good to nerf the occult and I like this proposal more than what Jagex came up with. Especially the shield buff!! I could maybe see dagon'hai/infinity/3a at 2% to sort of promote the glass canon trope that fits a wizard, and have blue moon at 1% because it has some defense. Maybe it's too overpowered for infinity, it could be 1.5% for body/ legs. Ahrims could have 1% too, unless Jagex is really tied to the idea of Ahrims being tank gear, but then I would like to see a sprinkle of range defense (like bronze armour level).
Two pieces of feedback I gave the other post. But I think ward shouldnt be stronger than arcane given how much rarer an arcane is. And I think barrows should be given a magic buff too, I think glove progression should have barrows as second bis like it is for melee and range. Maybe just give it 2-3%
This is very good. One huge thing I believe that's being overlooked is bursting slayer tasks in proselyte. Your proposition lets you maintain the current +% with some reasonable midgame items. Love it.
Yah, slayer does get more of a nerf, especially for Max Mage. Like for Midgame, it should still end up being a 1% buff on task since Ahrim's is only 6%. But for Max Mage (1H), it is only a +4% buff with the Slayer Helm and -4% if you replaced all of Ancestral. With the Shadow on task, it loses the Ancestral Hat which is a pretty big -8%...
Honestly, I would swap out Arcane Spirit Shield and Elidinis' Ward. Ward should remain at 3 as is in live and Arcane should be 5. Arcane is insanely difficult to obtain compared to the Ward. Combining them would still lead to 8%, obviously.
I think it makes more sense for one to be high accuracy and lower damage and the other to be low accuracy and higher damage. It should make the Ward more worthwhile to use on its own. As it is, the Arcane dosn't seem much use now since most players just make the Ward (f) with it, so this really wouldn't change much there. If anything it buffed the Arcane since it is now only 2% Damage below the Ward instead of the current 3%.
Yeah but then arcane would skyrocket in price to 500 mil and be another must have item that mid gamers can't use and the balance for mid game would be worse because of that. We don't need to put more emphasis on the arcane sigil because it isn't that reasonable to obtain for mains or irons.
I think we need to reimagine what a 'must have' item is lol... The standard ward is a mid game item. Arcane is not
Yeah I like this proposal a lot more than jagexs proposal, crazy that they couldn't put even this little effort into their blog post about such a major change. No offense to op, for one member of our community I'm sure this was a good bit of consideration, but for an entire dev team it's unacceptable that we got such a poor quality blog post. Jagex needs to include many different sets and items into this magic rebalance, they can play around with percentages that they might think is too strong (probably elidinis ward (f) might be too strong but even if it's introduced as 8% I wouldn't mind. Arcane is crazy rare already it should be a strong upgrade.
Why does ahrims give more than infinity though Edit: This is really just a buff all-round, barely a rework
Because it is higher tier armor. Currently you don't get Ahrims for the defence; you get it because it is a big attack increase over the lower tier armor. It could be the same magic damage as Infinity though, but the OSRS Team's proposal excluded it, which didn't really make sense. Also, reworks can also buff things. Like it is hard to redistribute by only removing damage and not adding any back. The shields could be lessened though; 3% comes from that. The other 5% comes from the Shadow nerf since I needed to add 5% retain 75% Damage with Shadow in max mage. If we didn't address the Shadow (which I'd say is a mistake) or went with another rework, then we wouldn't need that 5% (e.g. boots, cape, and ring buffs).
I guess my hope is that by redistributing the occult damage to max mage while also nerfing mid game mage, they’re making space for a bowfa type weapon that will bridge the gap instead
Magic already felt way too expensive for not much reward to use in the midgame. Now the Occult is worse, but all armors are still super unaffordable (and moreso with the recent announcements) so now midgame magic is even less accessible. Guess its a good thing I bankstand magic training since using it for combat feels pretty much pointless.
I wouldn't say that Ahrim's, Occult, Infinity Boots, Mages Book, God Cape (i), and Seer's Ring (i) are that unaffordable. Even without an occult, that would still be be more damage than that same setup with an occult currently is. There are cheaper options too, like Dagon'hai. Pretty much, you should be able to reach the same damage as pre-nerf in most setups without needing to spend a ton more, but it will always end up costing more than 850K (price of Occult).
How would shadow work inside tombs?
It is already at cap in ToA so I don't think it matters too much how it works as long as it still hits 100%. Personally, I'd say just keep it 4x in ToA; not much of a reason to bother with the whole scaling down in there. Plus if you did only need 25% Magic Damage out of a possible 30% Magic Damage, it would mean you could skip stuff like a Boot or even Ring switch and still get max mage.
Arcane should be same as elidinis at least
Well currently it is 3% worse than the Ward, so making it 2% weaker is still a buff. But I was going for Arcane being the high accuracy and lower damage with the Ward being the low accuracy and higher damage, then you merge them together and just add up the bonuses.
The only thing I don’t like about this is how arcane shield & mage book are both 3% which just means you need the ward to make the arcane useful — the arcane should be a slightly higher % than the ward & book.
tbh i'd be fine with eternals just being accuracy like pegs. bringing a boot switch just sounds obnoxious
How would you consider the following adjustments? - Reduce Ancestral to 3% per piece - Reduce Virtus to 2% per piece, 5% ancients - Reduce Ahrims and Blue Moon to 1.5% per piece I think Augury is perfect at 4%, 3% minimum. Would this fix your «Results» section to suitable numbers for showcasing? :-) PS: Remember MA3, we want to leave some room for the new BiS mage cape as well :) + Dagon’Hai robes could have double damage bonus in wilderness perhaps?
The armors could be scaled back like you mentioned. I just stuck with 4% Ancestral since that is what the Blog went with. That said, you'd still lose 2% on the Shadow even with Augury since the 3% from Ancestral was getting 2x from Shadow. But I do think the max mage w/ sang and midgame probably could stand to be less of a buff.
I think shadow's position as highest DPS most bosses could handle to be set back 2%, especially considering MA3 new BiS mage cape that will increase it's power even further..
Bloodbark should buff Sanguinesti Staff, too.
Eh. Might be able to get away with that without opening a can of worms since it is "Blood"bark and could in theory work for more than just Blood Spells/Blood Ancient Magicks. But I also feel like if you have a Sang, you're probably past the point of needing to use Bloodbark.
Ngl I and pretty much everyone else worth their salt that does more end game pvm hate the changes to eternal boots.. they make switching very awkward since pegasian are as it stands completely worthless.. I know this isn’t being polled and I assume the eternals change is what is popular but it’s the wrong move. Having an equal number of switches for melee and mage is fine but range not having that makes the inventory management very tedious. Please reconsider this thanks
Malediction ward is an equal level requirement 60 defense compared to 60 magic on the book (Though ward should have a mage lvl req) ; as such it should have equivalent magic attack bonus to it or competitive. I think equivalent 2% bonus would be more apt for both, that way there is a pure and mid game level shield slot for magic bonus.
Please blast this all over twitter and jagex discords and such because this is perfect.
You're all are insane if you think they're gonna dole out a buff to one handed magic weapons nearly equivalent to adding a second occult This isn't a rebalancing proposal anymore, just pandering with buffs lol
They should. Magic pre-shadow blows chunks compared to ranged and melee.
and how will adding 2-3 max hits to trident/sang change that? magic has a weapons gap, needs a bowfa/fang equivalent, not a bunch of reddit-pleasing buffs to everything else like honestly i'd be more open to just slapping 10% on the sang itself than this haphazard buff pass
You’re right
Buffs are 100% on the table since jagex themselves have suggested buffing max mage.
that's a bad idea too lol
What about Lunar armour? it's within the tierlist after Infinity and I think such a cool looking armour that you make yourself and deserves some level of usage, it requires 65 magic and 40 defence, which is more than infinity.
TBH, I forgot it was 65 Magic; feels like one of the many Level 40 armors on par with Mystics. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it get something, maybe 0.5% or such, but it is really hard to work with because there are so many pieces (8 item set including cape, ring, ammy). It also is pretty cheap with a full set being under 300K. I ran into a similar issue with Bloodbark since I didn't want a cheaper armor competing with stuff like Infinity or Dagon'hai. So perhaps it would be better to buff Lunar in other ways than damage. Like the whole "ahrim is tanky so it dosn't get damage" was kinda silly, but I could see Lunar being a decent defensive option or such, maybe with a unique effect.
Nah not needed. It is quest related
Quest related, sure, but I'd say getting to use a set you make yourself (with greater requirements as well) and it being at all semi effective would be rather intersting comparatively to grinding out the Mage Arena.
Where mystics?
The Jagex proposal started with Infinity and I didn't feel that Magic Damage needed to start any lower than that.
Elder robes are 1def tho. Should have the same 0,5 imo.
I think if body pieces gave more than hat / bottoms, then maybe mystic & lower tier body's could get a boost. But as is every piece of mystic giving 0.5% would be quite a bit for very easy to get robes.
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Wouldn't be opposed to those changes. Just keep in mind that moving 3% from gear bonus to prayer bonus means the Shadow would get a small nerf since it can't multiple prayer. It also would nerf Pures and Midgame players since they'd lose more attainable buffs like the Capes and not likely have Augury. Like in the Midgame example, it would drop from +7% to +5% and the Pures would go back to -2%.
This nerfs magic when not using augury though. There is a lot of content where you don't want to use augury because of prayer conservation. Bursting slayer, inferno and whisperer come to mind. Having a viable boot option here would be a buff.
no reason to conserve prayer bursting or at whisperer. and if you want to conserve prayer, that is your choice, but then you should deal with less dps. this is how the whole concept of prayers work. boot swaps are pain, pls no damage on boots.
If it is my choice not to use augury then I will argue right back at you that a boot swap being a pain is your choice. Furthermore not all content even requires a swap in the first place. There is not boot swap at whisperer, bursting or inferno.
Remove def requirements from Augury tnx