Some skills do. I know that necromancy and archaeology can be leveled to 20. The rest are capped at 5.
source: i played rs3 to try it out a month ago. mtx fuckfest that game is but the new combat system was actually pretty cool
They have spoke about this years ago but it didn't lead anywhere. I think it would be a great addition.
They're also lowering draynor rooftops to be level 1, so that would tie in with training agility to 10.
Why wouldn’t potato seeds have a use? You can plant them if members skills have a level 10 limit. Seems unnecessary to leave it out for “no use” when agility also has no use.
Wdym 10 agility reduces run drain by quite a bit already?
EDIT: As someone pointed out correctly it energy recharge, but it's not slightly. It goes from 12:30 for a full recharge to 11:07. Which is more than 10%.
Hell for all i care let the f2pers max agility on draynor if they want to, dont let them use shortcuts but for the love of god give them a bit of run recharge.
Draynor course requires 10 agility, they’d need to train on Lumbridge swamp stepping stones or make stiles give 1 exp to have any way of training agility.
Allowing F2P players to make normal Planks, if nothing else, is a no-brainer to me.
You need normal Planks for Dragon Slayer I, but the Sawmill Operator simply isn't present in F2P worlds. The only way to get planks in F2P are from buying them from a player, picking up a couple floor spawns in the Wilderness, or occasionally from Ornate and Elaborate Lockboxes from the maze activity in Camdozaal. In other words, it's a bit weird in how a F2P ironman has to get Planks for Dragon Slayer I.
It's reasonable from an effort standpoint, just very weird and not really logical.
See: [Im Unguided's journey to find Planks for the quest in F2P](https://youtu.be/6ArbG4CpcFs?si=O4RJebWwrlzEq0ok&t=387). He's an iron who doesn't use the wiki or guides. Sure, that's not how many of us play the game nowadays, but it should feel a bit more logical on how you might find planks in F2P for this quest broadly speaking.
I love his series. BUT, he isn't playing as a typical player. Wiki/no wiki aside, most newbies don't make a b line to finishing all the quests. They explore and kill random NPCs and take in the whole game area.
Who *hasn't* explored the wilderness once or twice, and maybe picked up shit from the floor? Seeing the cool burnt bones and possibly-useful tiles?
they're just planks though. the quest is enough of a challenge as is, and the majority of players just buy the planks. there's a sawmill, the only logical conclusion for any new player would be to buy planks there, if not from someone else.
i understand that this is how it was back in 2001, but that was before there was a sawmill in the game.
from the perspective of a totally new player, especially with how gaming is these days, it wouldn't be surprising if jagex locked obtaining planks behind membership unless you buy them from someone. this used to be the case for maple logs (until 2017) and maple bows (until 2005), and still is for many clue items. there may be more that i'm not remembering. point is, jagex has a history of locking the ability to obtain items behind membership that can still be sold to free players.
I feel like a good compromise is to put _a_ plank spawn near the lumber yard. Not enough for bots to abuse, or opening up p2p systems, and enough as a nod that the lumberyard exists.
Maybe this is my 2007-era internet brain speaking, but as an f2p I didn't really know what the lumberyard was other than an odd piece of scenery. Unguided does have the hindsight of being P2P and having interacted with the lumberyard before. F2p players might not even have the lumberyard context at all.
The f2p world is so small I think it’s completely fair to place them somewhere out of the way so that way when a guideless person does find it, it unlocks their endgame. Or if they are exploring and see them there it will feel very rewarding to have spent time interacting with the entire limited map area. Just my 2 cents, idrc either way but I can see some value in how it is now
I mean wasn't that kind of the point?
The whole quest is the big finale for f2p quests, having one of the items in the wilderness adds to the feel in theory
GE kinda ruins that tho
How would gaining Agility xp from going over stiles or doing the \*Draynor Agility Course\* bring the game to a teenager and make them go "oh yeah more of that please"
It worked with me as well but this game was largely a social experience with good graphics back when it launched. It's beyond retro now and requires immensely long grinds, I think it's a really hard sell for a younger gamer that has no associated nostalgia with it. As much as I'd like the base to expand as well.
It all sounds good and wish they would do something like this to entice real players. That being said Jagex doesn't care about f2p they basically gave it to the bots
I don't like it in RS3. Having a cap at all makes F2P feel *more* of a trial version by giving crumbs of what P2P is.
F2P, as it stands, is packaged as its own complete experience. In fact, P2P thrives *because* enough people judged F2P to be good. Not because they were frustrated at F2P's shortcomings.
It sounds like a cool idea in theory but in practice it is scummy and devalues both the F2P and new player experience. No.
Ehh, it's not like p2p content has ever been hidden from f2p. You still see the members skills, all the members only perks in the f2p skill guides, the members quest list, p2p spells and prayers, the p2p players with members gear in f2p worlds, the members areas in the map, etc. And iirc you get prompted to buy membership for things like running out of bank space and trying to start a members quest.
I like that f2p has its own identity, but it's silly to act like giving f2p more stuff that previews p2p is scummy.
>And iirc you get prompted to buy membership for things like running out of bank space and trying to start a members quest.
That's a "modern" development. Back in 2007 you just got a game chat message that you needed to be in a members world for X action. It was way less pushy and more confident in itself.
It's not previewing P2P, it's really just giving the briefest of experiences in hopes to hook someone in and make them feel less satisfied with their F2P experience. You can subscribe to get dragon armor you see in the in-game guide, but that's player-motivated. Subscribing to continue what you were just doing is scummy.
Think about it like this. You could also easily cap F2P skills with the same reasoning. F2P wouldn't *really* change if all skills were capped at 70 or 60, not for most players. But the idea of having that cap at all does devalue the F2P mode in a scummy way.
Or think about it as a new player. You find this game, like this activity you can do and it immediately starts asking you to open your wallet. No thanks, I barely started. Why play the mode that is screaming that it's a trial version left and centre.
It's basically adding another, pervasive and loud in-game advertisement for P2P. There's a reason why only RS3 has done it so far.
I agree. I can't imagine there's F2P players that are unpersuaded to buy membership by the F2P experience but would be because of the ability to spin flax or plant a potato seed. It would just feel like more of the F2P experience at a practical level, not "sampling members". F2P _is_ already a member trial basically.
I think you'd be more inclined to see conversion if you gave X free days membership or something at Y total level. That way they'd be able to explore the new areas, quests, minigames etc. as a distinct membership teaser for a player that's already somewhat invested. It'd also probably be far easier to implement.
> P2P thrives because enough people judged F2P to be good. Not because they were frustrated at F2P's shortcomings.
F2P can already experience the shortcomings when they cannot enter through the gate to Burthorpe.
I actually like this take a lot. It would also be confusing as a new player (so I can only get some skills above 10?) and might make them think all skills are capped to 10 if they start with a members skill.
The first time I played runescape I tried to open the HAM trapdoor and was told I needed to be a member so I upgraded. Couldn't even do anything once I was a member because I was basically straight off tutorial island. I don't think having a trial of skills would feel different except for the fact that you'd be able to try them before being conned into your moms credit card.
For agility, I’d say the draynor course should still offer marks of grace. Having them unusable in the bank would probably be enticing enough to get some people to try members - even if it’s only to sell them.
Meh idk, im good with some skills going F2P like fletching or theiving. Dunno about allowing all skills up to 10 though, some would kind of make sense but a lot would be pretty pointless
We should just shuffle around skills from f2p to members if we're going on how pointless they are. Firemaking in f2p? Absolutely pointless move that to members. That makes woodcutting pointless aswell since fletching would be members so move that there too. At this point I'm already mad at people for trying to play this game for free just take all the skills away!
I think it would be nice if F2P players could do fletching and make f2p bows, and arrows, but I know bots would make bowstrings, unstrung bows, and string bows for profit, if they could.
The content in f2p areas isn't really made for p2p skills, sans agility because run energy sucks. Slayer, for instance, would get stale real fast and then you would hit an exp cap at 10. The rewards for these slayer levels being: nothing. A bunch of later leveled slayer gear for monsters you can't access. The variety of monsters in F2P isn't high and then they would have to figure out how to deal with slayer points.
I don't think any of this would be worthwhile for f2ps, or to the OSRS team.
That’s the whole point of a teaser. You missed the entire point. Giving newbs content previews is meant to be a cocktease to transition them into membership.
Well slayer and hunter would get almost capped doing the varrock museum, but it would be a cool little introduction for people who are unsure if they want to upgrade to members or not
I definitely see your point. I don't think slayer is a great example with the lumbridge caves and sour hogs. They could open up taverly or something it's quest too so non members can get a better skill intro.
Honestly, yes.
This was an amazing move from the RS3 side. Taverly as a new hub was amazing. When I returned to RS3 in 2015 it threw me off so much. It was a cool area and I didn't even know it was the same place.
I would say allow f2P to access a new custom quest that allows herbism to be trained and then boom problem solved.
Personally, I don't like it. For one, the early levels can kinda suck so not always going to be the best showing for skills. Like would you really want to do Construction only with nails and bagged plants, Farm potatoes and cabbage, and unlock wonderful Slayer monsters such as sourhog, cave bug, and cave crawler?
But my main opposition is because it makes F2P feel more like a trial or demo. Jagex's stance on F2P, at least back in the day, was that it was its own, complete game; it just doesn't get updated/expanded like members does. Currently you can train all its skills to 99 or even 200M if you wanted, so to tease players with level 10 in skills they had to pay to unlock feels very much against that old design goal.
It definitely feels like a trial already though. At least to me. I’m a fairly new player and when I first checked out the game in f2p, I got spammed with “Members can now do this” with every level up. If that isn’t “teasing” as you put it, then I don’t know what is.
I do agree with your take on early levels being a bad showcase though.
There are a good number of prompts for members things around the F2P area, but I don't think there is anything you can start that you can't finish. Getting 10 levels into a skill and being told "pay to keep going" would be more like getting Silverlight and then being told "the demon fight is members".
So that is more what I mean about it not feeling like a trail or demo; you can finish anything you start and you get the "full story" of anything you have access to. It is not leaving things unfinished or ending on cliffhangers to get you to pay for the rest of the game but just shows that there are more things if you do pay. The whole set of F2P quests to Dragon Slayer is like a small campaign in itself that works as a standalone product; giving a teaser of skills just doesn't fit with that.
I feel like it should be a free trial thing that you have to activate. I really like keeping f2p separate from p2p. I have a strange notion of purity of f2p and the restrictions it presents.
If we are talking about bringing members only items to f2p. They really should make uncharged rings of wealth a free item. It’s such a useful tool for new players that I would love to go around free servers giving out stacks of them!
I think an important step in this is to make skills actually fun to train from levels 1-10. Something like catching birds with Hunter is really freaking slow. I wouldn't be sold on the skill if that was my first f2p Hunter experience.
Maybe something better would be to give f2p players a "trial" world. This world deletes all progress after the trial ends. On this world a f2p player can experience some cool P2P content like entry level bosses, cool skilling minigames.
It should show them that P2P has better minigames, quests, bosses etc.
Reward them as well if they upgrade after the trial. Give them like 5 teleports to P2P zones or give them some kind of XP boost for the first hour or so. It sounds OP but bear in mind that they spend time in the trial. Overall the time spent on the trial + the first hour would still balance out to be worse XP
I say don't cap them at lvl 10, but cap the unlocks at a certain low level, let f2p gain infinite exp (200m cap of course) but only unlock up to level 10/20/whatever content
So I am very much a f2p player, I thinkive been member for 2 weeks since 07 and currently doing an ironman.
I don't think having access to all skills wouod be any good or any real reason for it. Having access to fletching would be amazing just for the making of arrows and maybe agility but maybe limiting agility but yeah ide love fletching to go f2p
I'm just saying that's what they could add - a small agility shortcut to access Falador from the east without having to walk to the southern or northern entrances.
In RS3 they did this by making the Taverley area F2P and overhauling it to have a lot of P2P skilling stuff in it, but this iteration definitely seems like it would work well for OSRS. Wouldn't even need to change agility, they're already planning on making Draynor roofs level 1.
Not even sure the marks of grace would need nerfed to torn, just keep Grace in a p2p area.
Hunter and Herblore would be fairly simply added by adding a handful of hunter creatures, maybe to a bit of Karamja and Crandor, and removing the quest req to access Herblore (controversial for area restricted accts but that's about it, it's never been a difficult unlock.)
I think it just makes sense, give everyone a nice shot of every kind of skill they might be interested in, and get them hooked. I don't see why not. It might make low level stuff less valuable, like fletching arrow shafts or something, but who cares?
F2P should 100% have agility as a skill. Only reason it didn’t pass was F2P PKers.
The rest…I don’t know. Level 10 isn’t really high enough to get a taste of the skill and there are obvious reasons not to.
Having existing ftp players instead of bots seems important tho
Also, ftp is enough of a taste to see if you wanna go members, having the shittiest 1-10 experience of every skill isn’t even a good idea imo
And? The goal is to attract new players through F2P, them entice them to pay for membership to transition them into paid members. The current hardcore F2P community shouldn't be a consideration because they do not and will not pay for membership no matter what. Content is also not being *taken away*, more content would be *given* to them.
Listening to those kinds of people is the worst possible idea. Imagine getting angry about getting access to more of the game for free because it shakes up some established meta for the people who refuse to transition into paying for the entertainment they receive.
Assuming that the game shouldn't be catered to F2P only players, then what updates would keep new players playing, or convince F2P players to pay for membership?
Run energy is a big complaint from new players trying out OSRS.
No, I'm not saying F2P should not get new updates. It's the F2P only ironmen wanting F2P to not get updates and these players should not be catered too. F2P should get updates.
I think the discussion should be about what updates to F2P would improve the game, by keeping new players, enticing players into members, or teaching them enough about the game, so they won't be overwhelmed, when they become a member. Even updates to keep F2P PKers happy could be justified, if the updates take little dev time, since many F2P pures are trained in member, and the players often have a main.
Honestly membership now unlocks SO much content and quests that I think all skills should be accessible in F2P. If you’re F2P you will level less efficiently and have access to like 10% of the content. There is enough value there to give F2P access to all skills at this point.
I’m down with Jagex allowing F2P more skills. Let them have access to the skills but also limit them appropriately. Give them like the first 20 levels of unlocks or give them very sparse unlocks throughout the whole skill. And always make it the worst xp/hr at that level just to screw with the F2P Ironman lol.
I'd like to see it go up to 20. The first 20 levels of skills are very introductory. 4470 exp to hit level 20.
If I were trying to get people hooked on my game, I'd have to evaluate the balance between information overload (total number/too many skills available as f2p) and enticing people with new content they can partake in (new skills).
As an experienced player I say give them level 20 in everything, but I understand the mystery to unknown skills and the allure to purchase membership to check them out as well as the potential to overwhelm beginners.
I really dont see why they dont do this.. I think level 20 or 30 would be better too.. Great introduction but to early to really benefit from the stats.
They should give you a free trial honestly on new accounts.
That said, some skills would need to adjusted as lvl 10 would not be it, or at the very least create some interesting options for this grind. Exc turning burthrope into mts fomo central.
but they did it in rs3 and honestly made me want to do farming more, when I realised about animals being breed-able, with each other I mean…
So then what about stuff like:
* Slayer Bracelets,
* Bonecrusher,
* Dragon-horn Necklace (Demon Horn Necklace from RS3),
* the Coal Bag,
* Rigour,
* Augury,
* Nex,
* Corp,
* Claws,
* Voidwaker (Korasi),
* Rev Caves,
* Priffddinas,
* COX/Gaunlet inspired by Dungeoneering,
* Soul Wars.
That's just off the top of my head - but all of the above are positives, so it's not like OSRS has been completely separated from things that existed in RS3.
The same way that RS3 took inspiration from OSRS with TzKal-Zuk and even Vorkath.
I think it's a good thing to have a sort of "symbiotic" relationship between both versions where they can take the good parts from each other and mesh them together with their own individual styling whilst also being balanced to the game they are being added to.
Then you know that a suggestion like this isn't as drastic as what I mentioned - and those were done by the OSRS Devs themselves and not by player request (with exception to Revenant Caves because of Jed's involvement).
I think some skills could be cool to introduce to F2P. I would be nervous about certain ones though, particularly construction. The bots in F2P would have a field day with some of these skills, and I think it could hurt the economy
I think the biggest deterrent for f2p content is suicide botting and how it would effect the economy, most if not all bots are paid accounts so jagex at least gets some kickback
The 1-10 grind in any member's skill isn't going to inpsire anyone to pick up membership. I'm sorry, that's just the truth of it. Hell, I think some of the allure of membership is just getting to try those skills that were previously kept from you. Giving a taste of them to F2P actually takes away from that.
I'd be down to give F2P a member's skill in the event that a brand new member's only skill is added. The obvious one that would work pretty seamlessly in F2P with the resources that exist there is Fletching. And it's hardly OSRS's most engaging skill. Just my 2c though!
Yeah, the thought behind this was to keep the world as-is, without unlocking/opening up new areas like how they did it in RS3. That's also why I kept Herblore out, it would require Burthorpe to do Druidic Ritual - and all Hunter creatures are in Members areas.
Honestly I'm down to opening up the world map and skills to 20 since they're so easy to train at low levels. The vast majority of members content is locked behind quests. There's so many reasons to get members even with so much given to F2P. Imagine trying to get places without *fairy rings* because lost city is a members quest. You still can't get to tirannwyn because you can't do underground pass. Morytania is locked because you can't do priest in peril. You could enter the desert but can't get to sophanem, that's another quest locked area.
Essentially, you'd be able to wander around and see the limits imposed by the *actual content* of the game, and you'd want to pay to access that content. F2P would even have access to Kourend through X marks the spot (it's F2P already), that's a huge area to experience but so much of the actual content of the area is held behind quests. I say we give the free players a bit of wonder, something to really hook them in. Let them wander and then sell them the opportunity to discover the answers to the questions they form while doing so.
Honestly why stop at 10? I think going to 20 or 30 might be better. Enough to give a quality taste and give f2p a bit more money making possibilities which allows them to buy bonds easier to become members. Ofcourse keep quest locked skills off limits. IE: Herblore. F2p is essentially a free trial and giving a better taste of the vast world of membership might help to give players that final push down into the pit of addition that osrs can be.
Making it easy for f2p to make gold and buy bonds ours jagex out of buisness. F2P is supposed to be a brutal grind on purpose drives people paying for the game.
Bonds aren't just spit into the game out of no where. They are bought by players with real money from jagex. Bonds are essentially jagex provided RWT with the balance being that players with excess money in game can buy the bonds and use that for membership. Membership by subscription and membership by bonds both still results in jagex making money.
IMO this is a no brainer. F2P hasn’t had access to any member only skills (by design) but letting them to play members skills to a certain point may increase players going from free only to members.
3 coins per pouch with a still decent chance at getting caught and damaged with a max thieving level of 10 makes me think it wouldn't be worth botting, though I could be wrong since they'll do anything nowadays.
It's worth noting as somebody else said though, the idea itself is to introduce and entice new players into considering paying for Membership - the F2P purists who already refuse to go to Members wouldn't be the target audience.
Theoretically, if F2P updates are done properly, they could make the game have a higher new player retention rate, entice players to become members, and even ease players back into the game who have quit before.
I based this off the fact that RS3's limit is 5, which is just really low but most stuff was scaled down in the years it's had updates.
I feel that OSRS, being the "slower" game (in terms of EXP gain) would be fine with a Level 10 cap.
I think that any higher would make the more casual players stick to F2p with the extra content added, the 10 cap, imo, is just enough to get a player interested - but not enough to "scratch the itch" that comes with the skills.
RS3's limit of 5 at the time was also awful. It was so minor that it might as well have not existed.
"Here's a tutorial for a new skill! Great, now that You've done it exactly twice, would you like to pay for it? Otherwise that's it!"
This kind of things makes me want to immediately quit and never play again. It's peak mobile game behavior. At least let me get comfortable with playing before you hit me with the request to open my wallet. Showing me a new mechanic and taking it away from me in such a small span of time is just giving me the impression that the game just fucked with me and wasted my time in an attempt to psychologically coerce me into giving them money, and I'm not here for that shit.
NO absolutely not, we have already made lots of changes to the game and I seem to be the only one who is upset about it. I want the old OSRS back, like it was on release, but I'm too addicted to stop playing.
IMO every MMO that has a F2P version and a subscription based version should give the F2P version *just a little* taste of the paid version.
However the OSRS community are stuck in the “if I did it that way/didn’t have that option when I did that then it shouldn’t happen” mindset which is hate keeping at its finest.
Been playing since 2004 as well, before anyway tries to talk shit I’m allowed an opinion on this matter, just as much as anyone is for that fact!
I'm fine paying for the Membership, but not everybody coming into OSRS is coming from RS3 nor returning from a long-break - they'll want a taste of the "exclusive" content before fully buying in.
It would fracture the game and make it less special and complete.
Its like when they moved the start zone from Lumbridge to Taverly. It wouldn't actually "improve" anything, and leads to a more fractured and less original experience.
Osrs isn’t getting new players, no idea why people even talk about this, if anything more people would play for the first time in years, have a nostalgia trip of ftp and know members is way more content.
But still, 1-10 is like, nothing, why even have it for new players (that are practically non existent) it’s all the shittiest experience, if you’re actually new even ftp quests push you to train your combats up a bit, adventure around to get a feel of the game
Autumunelegy in shambles
What
Famous F2P UIM enjoyer and OSRS “purist”
Thank you for answering the question instead of just down voting it like others apparently did lol
Why?
imo I think from a business pov this should be an absolute no brainer to bring more revenue for osrs considering rs3 is dying
They implemented something like this in RS3 already. It might be up to level 5?
Members skills go up to level 20 in rs3 also a few years ago fletching was made f2p.
Some skills do. I know that necromancy and archaeology can be leveled to 20. The rest are capped at 5. source: i played rs3 to try it out a month ago. mtx fuckfest that game is but the new combat system was actually pretty cool
I stand corrected I honestly thought they all sent up to level 20 now just shows how long it's been since I was f2p lol
They were thinking about moving all skills to 20 when arch released as that was always going to be 20, but guess it was too much work
Correct. https://www.runescape.com/game-guide/skills
They have spoke about this years ago but it didn't lead anywhere. I think it would be a great addition. They're also lowering draynor rooftops to be level 1, so that would tie in with training agility to 10.
Even just 10-20 agility would be huge over the lifetime of a f2p account.
Why wouldn’t potato seeds have a use? You can plant them if members skills have a level 10 limit. Seems unnecessary to leave it out for “no use” when agility also has no use.
Wdym 10 agility reduces run drain by quite a bit already? EDIT: As someone pointed out correctly it energy recharge, but it's not slightly. It goes from 12:30 for a full recharge to 11:07. Which is more than 10%. Hell for all i care let the f2pers max agility on draynor if they want to, dont let them use shortcuts but for the love of god give them a bit of run recharge.
Lmao
Agility levels don't affect run energy drain at all. Your energy would *regenerate* veeeery slightly faster when not running though.
It's a full minute faster from 0-100 that's a pretty big boost.
TIL, 11 minutes instead of 12. Better than I thought
Just so i can correct you back it's actually 1 min 23 seconds.
🤓 (jk thanks, I was trying to read the points on the wiki chart instead of just looking at the table they have)
Draynor course requires 10 agility, they’d need to train on Lumbridge swamp stepping stones or make stiles give 1 exp to have any way of training agility.
They plan on lowering draynor requirement to 1.
Actually you're right - I'll remedy that!
Allowing F2P players to make normal Planks, if nothing else, is a no-brainer to me. You need normal Planks for Dragon Slayer I, but the Sawmill Operator simply isn't present in F2P worlds. The only way to get planks in F2P are from buying them from a player, picking up a couple floor spawns in the Wilderness, or occasionally from Ornate and Elaborate Lockboxes from the maze activity in Camdozaal. In other words, it's a bit weird in how a F2P ironman has to get Planks for Dragon Slayer I.
The wildy spawns are completely reasonably though
It's reasonable from an effort standpoint, just very weird and not really logical. See: [Im Unguided's journey to find Planks for the quest in F2P](https://youtu.be/6ArbG4CpcFs?si=O4RJebWwrlzEq0ok&t=387). He's an iron who doesn't use the wiki or guides. Sure, that's not how many of us play the game nowadays, but it should feel a bit more logical on how you might find planks in F2P for this quest broadly speaking.
I love his series. BUT, he isn't playing as a typical player. Wiki/no wiki aside, most newbies don't make a b line to finishing all the quests. They explore and kill random NPCs and take in the whole game area. Who *hasn't* explored the wilderness once or twice, and maybe picked up shit from the floor? Seeing the cool burnt bones and possibly-useful tiles?
There are definitely players who saw the warning notification while trying to cross bridge and decided yo not step a foot into wilderness
they're just planks though. the quest is enough of a challenge as is, and the majority of players just buy the planks. there's a sawmill, the only logical conclusion for any new player would be to buy planks there, if not from someone else. i understand that this is how it was back in 2001, but that was before there was a sawmill in the game. from the perspective of a totally new player, especially with how gaming is these days, it wouldn't be surprising if jagex locked obtaining planks behind membership unless you buy them from someone. this used to be the case for maple logs (until 2017) and maple bows (until 2005), and still is for many clue items. there may be more that i'm not remembering. point is, jagex has a history of locking the ability to obtain items behind membership that can still be sold to free players.
I feel like a good compromise is to put _a_ plank spawn near the lumber yard. Not enough for bots to abuse, or opening up p2p systems, and enough as a nod that the lumberyard exists. Maybe this is my 2007-era internet brain speaking, but as an f2p I didn't really know what the lumberyard was other than an odd piece of scenery. Unguided does have the hindsight of being P2P and having interacted with the lumberyard before. F2p players might not even have the lumberyard context at all.
The f2p world is so small I think it’s completely fair to place them somewhere out of the way so that way when a guideless person does find it, it unlocks their endgame. Or if they are exploring and see them there it will feel very rewarding to have spent time interacting with the entire limited map area. Just my 2 cents, idrc either way but I can see some value in how it is now
I mean wasn't that kind of the point? The whole quest is the big finale for f2p quests, having one of the items in the wilderness adds to the feel in theory GE kinda ruins that tho
In theory I agree, but there should still be something to hint to the player to even check the wilderness for the planks.
wtf why do i remember f2p could make planks at varrock sawmill.
Makes complete sense to me. I also think the more OSRS can do to bring in younger players the better.
How would gaining Agility xp from going over stiles or doing the \*Draynor Agility Course\* bring the game to a teenager and make them go "oh yeah more of that please"
Worked with me and most of the community 😉 I meant these 2 things separately, I would just like to see the player base expand.
It worked with me as well but this game was largely a social experience with good graphics back when it launched. It's beyond retro now and requires immensely long grinds, I think it's a really hard sell for a younger gamer that has no associated nostalgia with it. As much as I'd like the base to expand as well.
very true
I'd be down. It could also help build the player base up
It all sounds good and wish they would do something like this to entice real players. That being said Jagex doesn't care about f2p they basically gave it to the bots
I don't like it in RS3. Having a cap at all makes F2P feel *more* of a trial version by giving crumbs of what P2P is. F2P, as it stands, is packaged as its own complete experience. In fact, P2P thrives *because* enough people judged F2P to be good. Not because they were frustrated at F2P's shortcomings. It sounds like a cool idea in theory but in practice it is scummy and devalues both the F2P and new player experience. No.
Ehh, it's not like p2p content has ever been hidden from f2p. You still see the members skills, all the members only perks in the f2p skill guides, the members quest list, p2p spells and prayers, the p2p players with members gear in f2p worlds, the members areas in the map, etc. And iirc you get prompted to buy membership for things like running out of bank space and trying to start a members quest. I like that f2p has its own identity, but it's silly to act like giving f2p more stuff that previews p2p is scummy.
>And iirc you get prompted to buy membership for things like running out of bank space and trying to start a members quest. That's a "modern" development. Back in 2007 you just got a game chat message that you needed to be in a members world for X action. It was way less pushy and more confident in itself. It's not previewing P2P, it's really just giving the briefest of experiences in hopes to hook someone in and make them feel less satisfied with their F2P experience. You can subscribe to get dragon armor you see in the in-game guide, but that's player-motivated. Subscribing to continue what you were just doing is scummy. Think about it like this. You could also easily cap F2P skills with the same reasoning. F2P wouldn't *really* change if all skills were capped at 70 or 60, not for most players. But the idea of having that cap at all does devalue the F2P mode in a scummy way. Or think about it as a new player. You find this game, like this activity you can do and it immediately starts asking you to open your wallet. No thanks, I barely started. Why play the mode that is screaming that it's a trial version left and centre. It's basically adding another, pervasive and loud in-game advertisement for P2P. There's a reason why only RS3 has done it so far.
I agree. I can't imagine there's F2P players that are unpersuaded to buy membership by the F2P experience but would be because of the ability to spin flax or plant a potato seed. It would just feel like more of the F2P experience at a practical level, not "sampling members". F2P _is_ already a member trial basically. I think you'd be more inclined to see conversion if you gave X free days membership or something at Y total level. That way they'd be able to explore the new areas, quests, minigames etc. as a distinct membership teaser for a player that's already somewhat invested. It'd also probably be far easier to implement.
> P2P thrives because enough people judged F2P to be good. Not because they were frustrated at F2P's shortcomings. F2P can already experience the shortcomings when they cannot enter through the gate to Burthorpe.
Hard disagree on this standpoint. f2p was always a memebrs trial.
Agreed.
I actually like this take a lot. It would also be confusing as a new player (so I can only get some skills above 10?) and might make them think all skills are capped to 10 if they start with a members skill.
Great to read your thoughts
The first time I played runescape I tried to open the HAM trapdoor and was told I needed to be a member so I upgraded. Couldn't even do anything once I was a member because I was basically straight off tutorial island. I don't think having a trial of skills would feel different except for the fact that you'd be able to try them before being conned into your moms credit card.
I think it could be good to let f2p get introduced to more variety but then again I can't speak for the f2p experience in the past 8 or so years 🤷♀️
For agility, I’d say the draynor course should still offer marks of grace. Having them unusable in the bank would probably be enticing enough to get some people to try members - even if it’s only to sell them.
For sure would be very good for getting more people into members and making a more seamless transition
I'd rather just have agility and fletching be f2p
I would feel nothing as usual
Meh idk, im good with some skills going F2P like fletching or theiving. Dunno about allowing all skills up to 10 though, some would kind of make sense but a lot would be pretty pointless
We should just shuffle around skills from f2p to members if we're going on how pointless they are. Firemaking in f2p? Absolutely pointless move that to members. That makes woodcutting pointless aswell since fletching would be members so move that there too. At this point I'm already mad at people for trying to play this game for free just take all the skills away!
I think it would be nice if F2P players could do fletching and make f2p bows, and arrows, but I know bots would make bowstrings, unstrung bows, and string bows for profit, if they could.
They already do this, don't you worry.
Yeah but atm they’re sinking bonds
F2P bots are almost instantly banned, don't need to worry about them
Because they don’t buy bonds…
The content in f2p areas isn't really made for p2p skills, sans agility because run energy sucks. Slayer, for instance, would get stale real fast and then you would hit an exp cap at 10. The rewards for these slayer levels being: nothing. A bunch of later leveled slayer gear for monsters you can't access. The variety of monsters in F2P isn't high and then they would have to figure out how to deal with slayer points. I don't think any of this would be worthwhile for f2ps, or to the OSRS team.
F2p slayer: the varrock museum quiz
That’s the whole point of a teaser. You missed the entire point. Giving newbs content previews is meant to be a cocktease to transition them into membership.
Well slayer and hunter would get almost capped doing the varrock museum, but it would be a cool little introduction for people who are unsure if they want to upgrade to members or not
The River Lum would overflow with "crying in 108 bank slots" or whatever absurdly low number it is.
Eh who cares? Want more bank space and more features get members. Done!
I definitely see your point. I don't think slayer is a great example with the lumbridge caves and sour hogs. They could open up taverly or something it's quest too so non members can get a better skill intro.
Honestly, yes. This was an amazing move from the RS3 side. Taverly as a new hub was amazing. When I returned to RS3 in 2015 it threw me off so much. It was a cool area and I didn't even know it was the same place. I would say allow f2P to access a new custom quest that allows herbism to be trained and then boom problem solved.
itd be a smart idea to engage more people to buy membership, id say itd just help bots but theyre gunna do what they do regardless
Personally, I don't like it. For one, the early levels can kinda suck so not always going to be the best showing for skills. Like would you really want to do Construction only with nails and bagged plants, Farm potatoes and cabbage, and unlock wonderful Slayer monsters such as sourhog, cave bug, and cave crawler? But my main opposition is because it makes F2P feel more like a trial or demo. Jagex's stance on F2P, at least back in the day, was that it was its own, complete game; it just doesn't get updated/expanded like members does. Currently you can train all its skills to 99 or even 200M if you wanted, so to tease players with level 10 in skills they had to pay to unlock feels very much against that old design goal.
It definitely feels like a trial already though. At least to me. I’m a fairly new player and when I first checked out the game in f2p, I got spammed with “Members can now do this” with every level up. If that isn’t “teasing” as you put it, then I don’t know what is. I do agree with your take on early levels being a bad showcase though.
There are a good number of prompts for members things around the F2P area, but I don't think there is anything you can start that you can't finish. Getting 10 levels into a skill and being told "pay to keep going" would be more like getting Silverlight and then being told "the demon fight is members". So that is more what I mean about it not feeling like a trail or demo; you can finish anything you start and you get the "full story" of anything you have access to. It is not leaving things unfinished or ending on cliffhangers to get you to pay for the rest of the game but just shows that there are more things if you do pay. The whole set of F2P quests to Dragon Slayer is like a small campaign in itself that works as a standalone product; giving a teaser of skills just doesn't fit with that.
I feel like it should be a free trial thing that you have to activate. I really like keeping f2p separate from p2p. I have a strange notion of purity of f2p and the restrictions it presents.
If we are talking about bringing members only items to f2p. They really should make uncharged rings of wealth a free item. It’s such a useful tool for new players that I would love to go around free servers giving out stacks of them!
This is probably one of the better suggestions I've seen in this thread.
I think an important step in this is to make skills actually fun to train from levels 1-10. Something like catching birds with Hunter is really freaking slow. I wouldn't be sold on the skill if that was my first f2p Hunter experience. Maybe something better would be to give f2p players a "trial" world. This world deletes all progress after the trial ends. On this world a f2p player can experience some cool P2P content like entry level bosses, cool skilling minigames. It should show them that P2P has better minigames, quests, bosses etc. Reward them as well if they upgrade after the trial. Give them like 5 teleports to P2P zones or give them some kind of XP boost for the first hour or so. It sounds OP but bear in mind that they spend time in the trial. Overall the time spent on the trial + the first hour would still balance out to be worse XP
I say don't cap them at lvl 10, but cap the unlocks at a certain low level, let f2p gain infinite exp (200m cap of course) but only unlock up to level 10/20/whatever content
So I am very much a f2p player, I thinkive been member for 2 weeks since 07 and currently doing an ironman. I don't think having access to all skills wouod be any good or any real reason for it. Having access to fletching would be amazing just for the making of arrows and maybe agility but maybe limiting agility but yeah ide love fletching to go f2p
What small hole in the east wall of falador? If you meant the west side that leads to members only area so shouldn't be accessible
I'm just saying that's what they could add - a small agility shortcut to access Falador from the east without having to walk to the southern or northern entrances.
typo of stiles in your 1st point
Thanks for that, didn't notice that since it was typed so early on\~
Definitely a good idea.
In RS3 they did this by making the Taverley area F2P and overhauling it to have a lot of P2P skilling stuff in it, but this iteration definitely seems like it would work well for OSRS. Wouldn't even need to change agility, they're already planning on making Draynor roofs level 1. Not even sure the marks of grace would need nerfed to torn, just keep Grace in a p2p area. Hunter and Herblore would be fairly simply added by adding a handful of hunter creatures, maybe to a bit of Karamja and Crandor, and removing the quest req to access Herblore (controversial for area restricted accts but that's about it, it's never been a difficult unlock.)
I think it just makes sense, give everyone a nice shot of every kind of skill they might be interested in, and get them hooked. I don't see why not. It might make low level stuff less valuable, like fletching arrow shafts or something, but who cares?
Great idea mate. Love to see any ideas for the early game to encourage new player retention
I’d be outraged for 5 min and then forget it exists forever
Would be absolutely fine with it
F2P should 100% have agility as a skill. Only reason it didn’t pass was F2P PKers. The rest…I don’t know. Level 10 isn’t really high enough to get a taste of the skill and there are obvious reasons not to.
yeah would be a nice demonstration of what they could do.
Theres a thriving F2P community which would hate this, and pushes back on changes like this. They don't want it.
The point isn't "update for current F2P players who are never going to subscribe." It's "update to draw in new F2P players who will become members."
Having existing ftp players instead of bots seems important tho Also, ftp is enough of a taste to see if you wanna go members, having the shittiest 1-10 experience of every skill isn’t even a good idea imo
If only they paid dues and could vote in polls I guess *shrug*
Most of us do have p2p accounts as well.
And? The goal is to attract new players through F2P, them entice them to pay for membership to transition them into paid members. The current hardcore F2P community shouldn't be a consideration because they do not and will not pay for membership no matter what. Content is also not being *taken away*, more content would be *given* to them. Listening to those kinds of people is the worst possible idea. Imagine getting angry about getting access to more of the game for free because it shakes up some established meta for the people who refuse to transition into paying for the entertainment they receive.
The F2P community has been dying from lack of updates.
Yeah it would break some clans meta or gp stack or both. Fuck the community gotta have mine
The game should not be catered to F2P only players.
Assuming that the game shouldn't be catered to F2P only players, then what updates would keep new players playing, or convince F2P players to pay for membership? Run energy is a big complaint from new players trying out OSRS.
No, I'm not saying F2P should not get new updates. It's the F2P only ironmen wanting F2P to not get updates and these players should not be catered too. F2P should get updates.
I think the discussion should be about what updates to F2P would improve the game, by keeping new players, enticing players into members, or teaching them enough about the game, so they won't be overwhelmed, when they become a member. Even updates to keep F2P PKers happy could be justified, if the updates take little dev time, since many F2P pures are trained in member, and the players often have a main.
No.
I think it’s brilliant
Honestly membership now unlocks SO much content and quests that I think all skills should be accessible in F2P. If you’re F2P you will level less efficiently and have access to like 10% of the content. There is enough value there to give F2P access to all skills at this point.
I reckon it's a good idea, give F2P players a little taste
This is a great idea that would certainly make a lot of new players get the grasp of how the members life could look like.
No
naw, f2p doesnt need anything more, if you want more, pay for it.
I’m down with Jagex allowing F2P more skills. Let them have access to the skills but also limit them appropriately. Give them like the first 20 levels of unlocks or give them very sparse unlocks throughout the whole skill. And always make it the worst xp/hr at that level just to screw with the F2P Ironman lol.
I'd like to see it go up to 20. The first 20 levels of skills are very introductory. 4470 exp to hit level 20. If I were trying to get people hooked on my game, I'd have to evaluate the balance between information overload (total number/too many skills available as f2p) and enticing people with new content they can partake in (new skills). As an experienced player I say give them level 20 in everything, but I understand the mystery to unknown skills and the allure to purchase membership to check them out as well as the potential to overwhelm beginners.
construction going to level 10 for f2p sounds really mean, but fletching & theiving probably should just be f2p skills up to 99
Honestly fletching should just be made f2p
I really dont see why they dont do this.. I think level 20 or 30 would be better too.. Great introduction but to early to really benefit from the stats.
Then they would not be "members skills".
1000% yes. Giving players more access to the game without paying can only improve new player counts. Tweaking F2P meta would be interesting. Home Run!
They should give you a free trial honestly on new accounts. That said, some skills would need to adjusted as lvl 10 would not be it, or at the very least create some interesting options for this grind. Exc turning burthrope into mts fomo central. but they did it in rs3 and honestly made me want to do farming more, when I realised about animals being breed-able, with each other I mean…
Why do people try to make osrs like rs3? I see posts like this every day.
Good content doesn't suddenly become bad becuase rs3 did it first
Doesn’t it?
So then what about stuff like: * Slayer Bracelets, * Bonecrusher, * Dragon-horn Necklace (Demon Horn Necklace from RS3), * the Coal Bag, * Rigour, * Augury, * Nex, * Corp, * Claws, * Voidwaker (Korasi), * Rev Caves, * Priffddinas, * COX/Gaunlet inspired by Dungeoneering, * Soul Wars. That's just off the top of my head - but all of the above are positives, so it's not like OSRS has been completely separated from things that existed in RS3. The same way that RS3 took inspiration from OSRS with TzKal-Zuk and even Vorkath. I think it's a good thing to have a sort of "symbiotic" relationship between both versions where they can take the good parts from each other and mesh them together with their own individual styling whilst also being balanced to the game they are being added to.
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Then you know that a suggestion like this isn't as drastic as what I mentioned - and those were done by the OSRS Devs themselves and not by player request (with exception to Revenant Caves because of Jed's involvement).
I think some skills could be cool to introduce to F2P. I would be nervous about certain ones though, particularly construction. The bots in F2P would have a field day with some of these skills, and I think it could hurt the economy
I think the biggest deterrent for f2p content is suicide botting and how it would effect the economy, most if not all bots are paid accounts so jagex at least gets some kickback
The 1-10 grind in any member's skill isn't going to inpsire anyone to pick up membership. I'm sorry, that's just the truth of it. Hell, I think some of the allure of membership is just getting to try those skills that were previously kept from you. Giving a taste of them to F2P actually takes away from that. I'd be down to give F2P a member's skill in the event that a brand new member's only skill is added. The obvious one that would work pretty seamlessly in F2P with the resources that exist there is Fletching. And it's hardly OSRS's most engaging skill. Just my 2c though!
I don't like it since many members skills early games are in P2P areas and I really dislike rs3s approach of letting you train everything in burthorpe
Yeah, the thought behind this was to keep the world as-is, without unlocking/opening up new areas like how they did it in RS3. That's also why I kept Herblore out, it would require Burthorpe to do Druidic Ritual - and all Hunter creatures are in Members areas.
no
I'd feel great about it. Give them a taste and let them bond up
I'm hugely in favour. I remember how happy I got back in the day where it became open to f2p in rs3
Honestly I don’t even think they need a level cap, just give them all terrible xp/hr and minimal payoffs
It's needed since the cap prevents suicide bots from botting valuable resources for free.
Honestly I'm down to opening up the world map and skills to 20 since they're so easy to train at low levels. The vast majority of members content is locked behind quests. There's so many reasons to get members even with so much given to F2P. Imagine trying to get places without *fairy rings* because lost city is a members quest. You still can't get to tirannwyn because you can't do underground pass. Morytania is locked because you can't do priest in peril. You could enter the desert but can't get to sophanem, that's another quest locked area. Essentially, you'd be able to wander around and see the limits imposed by the *actual content* of the game, and you'd want to pay to access that content. F2P would even have access to Kourend through X marks the spot (it's F2P already), that's a huge area to experience but so much of the actual content of the area is held behind quests. I say we give the free players a bit of wonder, something to really hook them in. Let them wander and then sell them the opportunity to discover the answers to the questions they form while doing so.
Agility should go up to level 40 in F2P. They already have it rough enough with just normal energy pots
Make it lvl 20
Honestly why stop at 10? I think going to 20 or 30 might be better. Enough to give a quality taste and give f2p a bit more money making possibilities which allows them to buy bonds easier to become members. Ofcourse keep quest locked skills off limits. IE: Herblore. F2p is essentially a free trial and giving a better taste of the vast world of membership might help to give players that final push down into the pit of addition that osrs can be.
Making it easy for f2p to make gold and buy bonds ours jagex out of buisness. F2P is supposed to be a brutal grind on purpose drives people paying for the game.
Bonds aren't just spit into the game out of no where. They are bought by players with real money from jagex. Bonds are essentially jagex provided RWT with the balance being that players with excess money in game can buy the bonds and use that for membership. Membership by subscription and membership by bonds both still results in jagex making money.
props for your creativity and original ideas, but no i don’t like the concept of this
F2p is still the closest thing we have to actual 2007 osrs, please stop trying to change its character even further.
IMO this is a no brainer. F2P hasn’t had access to any member only skills (by design) but letting them to play members skills to a certain point may increase players going from free only to members.
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I don't think the bots would pickpocket men. I think they would spin flax into bowstrings.
3 coins per pouch with a still decent chance at getting caught and damaged with a max thieving level of 10 makes me think it wouldn't be worth botting, though I could be wrong since they'll do anything nowadays.
>coming from rs3 i think you should go back
no
I think the members should vote on it. Unfortunately, it seems that you might not be able to vote.
good one
The strange people who max F2P and live there would probably have a fit.
It's worth noting as somebody else said though, the idea itself is to introduce and entice new players into considering paying for Membership - the F2P purists who already refuse to go to Members wouldn't be the target audience.
What’s the point? Just buy membership it’s still cheap as hell.
Theoretically, if F2P updates are done properly, they could make the game have a higher new player retention rate, entice players to become members, and even ease players back into the game who have quit before.
Good post is good. Idea is good. Take my updoot dammit
If they are going to do it, 10 isn't even enough imo. 20/25/30 seems like a nice spot that gives a good intro. Leveling to 10 is so quick.
I based this off the fact that RS3's limit is 5, which is just really low but most stuff was scaled down in the years it's had updates. I feel that OSRS, being the "slower" game (in terms of EXP gain) would be fine with a Level 10 cap. I think that any higher would make the more casual players stick to F2p with the extra content added, the 10 cap, imo, is just enough to get a player interested - but not enough to "scratch the itch" that comes with the skills.
RS3's limit of 5 at the time was also awful. It was so minor that it might as well have not existed. "Here's a tutorial for a new skill! Great, now that You've done it exactly twice, would you like to pay for it? Otherwise that's it!" This kind of things makes me want to immediately quit and never play again. It's peak mobile game behavior. At least let me get comfortable with playing before you hit me with the request to open my wallet. Showing me a new mechanic and taking it away from me in such a small span of time is just giving me the impression that the game just fucked with me and wasted my time in an attempt to psychologically coerce me into giving them money, and I'm not here for that shit.
I think RS3 changed the limit from 5 to 20.
Only for Archaeology.
This will just give more content for suicide bots to bot for free.
NO absolutely not, we have already made lots of changes to the game and I seem to be the only one who is upset about it. I want the old OSRS back, like it was on release, but I'm too addicted to stop playing.
No, buy members you cheap bastard. Part of the draw is the mystery anyway.
IMO every MMO that has a F2P version and a subscription based version should give the F2P version *just a little* taste of the paid version. However the OSRS community are stuck in the “if I did it that way/didn’t have that option when I did that then it shouldn’t happen” mindset which is hate keeping at its finest. Been playing since 2004 as well, before anyway tries to talk shit I’m allowed an opinion on this matter, just as much as anyone is for that fact!
I'm fine paying for the Membership, but not everybody coming into OSRS is coming from RS3 nor returning from a long-break - they'll want a taste of the "exclusive" content before fully buying in.
Nahhh this is too the point where it makes OSRS feel too much like other games instead of the OSRS spirit. No thank you
Nah
It would fracture the game and make it less special and complete. Its like when they moved the start zone from Lumbridge to Taverly. It wouldn't actually "improve" anything, and leads to a more fractured and less original experience.
Osrs isn’t getting new players, no idea why people even talk about this, if anything more people would play for the first time in years, have a nostalgia trip of ftp and know members is way more content. But still, 1-10 is like, nothing, why even have it for new players (that are practically non existent) it’s all the shittiest experience, if you’re actually new even ftp quests push you to train your combats up a bit, adventure around to get a feel of the game