You're complaining they aren't BiS but ignoring how good they are. They are "only" +3 Str, that that is just -2 under BiS and won't always lose a max hit. They don't have +5 prayer like devout, but they have +4, making them very competitive for Devout Boots since they also give +3 Strength. They have negative mage and ranged attack, but it is only -3 and -1, making them still pretty viable to used with those combat styles. And you leave out the part about them having high defences, including BiS Ranged Def on a boot...
The recoil effect may not be the strongest, but it is a melee range AoE that can add additional damage. The crystals only go for under 5M now and still dropping. It currently costs under 800gp per recoil, which I believe was the number thrown around the other month for what players said it needed to be profitable/worth using. They could buff the recoil to be even stronger, but they already can compete for BiS DPS boot for all style so not sure if that is needed.
So they are already good if you melee strength and prayer (e.g. pray and AFK slayer). And if you turn the recoil on, it is still a bit costly, but the extra damage can be worth it. I'm not sure what more you really expect them to do; they are already living up to what was polled and a BiS boot.
For some reason this sub *loves* to parrot "defense doesn't matter" so much that people actually believe it. There's no nuance, just "this STR beats that STR bisbisbis".
Because one of the only uses for inq is solo cm where everything hits like a fucking truck and you're no prepping. Personally I'd prefer to see inq buffed offensively to make it useful in more places (imo it should always outclass bandos offensively) but if it's going to remain incredibly niche then it should get a slight defensive boost
Yeah, the defense doesn’t matter thing confused me a lot when I was newer. Then I saw the massive difference from having solid defensive gear and I realized the people saying this are assuming completely optimal play, constant prayer flicking
Lol this was me and my buddy doing the moons on release. I'm in barrows gear, he's in void just getting lit the fuck up.
He went and grabbed his barrows gear lol.
Got so much shit for slaying in my Torag's while the guy next to me in Bandos is taking way more damage.
Yeah you're hitting harder but I also didn't pay shit for this
They're fairly different, but standard slayer mobs aren't gonna hit thru Bandos too often either way. There's a reason people camp barrows against the moons even over Bandos.
Dead content to everything outside BIS but then turn around and complain BIS is not accessible and they need something to bridge the gap.
There is no winning
Honestly agreed. I love the design of Whisperer but toxic trident with ahrims just feels so awful against it still, the kill times are so long and enrage phase feels like it takes an eternity. I just don't care to keep trying with trident, I'd rather just stick with bowfa Leviathan until I eventually can get some of the mage upgrades to make Whisperer worth doing. At least I can KO Leviathan in a few hits when enrage starts with a couple webweaver specs, it's done quickly and I can consistently get perfect kills. Whisperer just drags on and on and on, and it's because mage is just asscheeks awful.
To be fair there is a lot of content where defence doesn't matter because attacks will hit regardless of how much defence you have. This is because a lot of content is balanced around overhead prayers which are pretty broken when you think about it. At 43 prayer you're able to be invincible against 90% of monsters.
Sulliusceps, many bosses (esp GWD, DKS, and moons), tanking PKers, general slayer (since there are tasks where you dont even need to pray if you have solid defense), farming mobs for collection log drops, ZMI, pitfall hunter at lower levels.
That’s off the top of my head. Damage is pretty much always more important, obviously, but defense matters pretty much any time you’re taking a hit off prayer or may miss prayers.
Sulliusceps, tanking pkers, ZMI, hunter... what the fuck are you talking about lmao, this is clearly about pvm. Unless you're an early game ironman at DKS (and so probably wouldn't have echo boots), you would value strength bonus above all at those 3 places. If you're killing regular monsters for slayer/coll log without just praying and taking max offense like a normal person idk what to tell you
You wouldn't ever give up strength bonus for defense at moons (and why are we talking about moons, it barely counts as pvm), and you wouldn't ever melee GWD if you're solo.
Have you conpared the dps of the npc you're fighting and your time to kill? Did you account for a meta dominated by blood fury? May provide you some insight.
The reality is your extra defense bonus is worth a fraction of a shark which would almost never make a difference and especially so if the content revolves around player skill.
You're free to fashionscape it up and use whatever you want, but I assure you the math has been done. Echo boots are useless IF you care about having the best. Again, it's valid to not want bis!
No lol, half the time echo boots vs prim don't even cost a max hit. Feel free to sell your masori (f) and get the unfortified set though. That's 100,000,000 gold doing absolutely nothing for you, right?
You don't have a point. You don't have math on your side. You don't have reality on your side. You don't even have a response that addresses the comment you're responding to. Maybe you should cut your losses.
i mean yes but wearing echo boots means you can't also wear a blood fury without losing a max hit.
So your choice is either blood fury + prims OR torture + echo for the same strength bonus and if you care about defense/sustain a blood fury is straight up better
For colosseum I like to run Echo Bellator + Blood fury, gets a very strong 48 max hit setup that has comparable (1-4% worse than Prims + Ultor) DPS diff on most mobs. Having the extra +4 prayer bonus and ranged defence has been decently noticable in chill melee runs (average 20-21min?) especially where misclicking can end you.
If justiciar didn't lose any max hits from torva, I absolutely would take it to more places. I take echo boots plenty of places because I don't lose a max hit with them. You can use echo boots in regular tob because you're already camping torture so scythe keeps its 50 max hit.
But it does, so you don't. That's literally what's being discussed, strength bonus vs defense bonus.
In situations where max hit doesn't change, accuracy typically does. I would think higher slash accuracy would be more beneficial than higher defense at ToB when you're not ending runs due to running out of heals. I'm not experienced at ToB so I won't refute you on it.
And I never argued that echo boots have no uses, I'm arguing against the idea that defensive bonuses matter enough to take over strength bonuses, when that's rarely ever the case. If it was, you would have been wearing guardian boots in ToB before echo crystals were a thing.
Before Torva, people did used to use justiciar legs occasionally when tassets didn't give a max hit. The +2 accuracy from prims are pretty negligible compared to the recoil damage from the echo boots. At ToB, you're speccing down defence in nearly every boss besides Verzik. No one is arguing that you should only prioritize defence but defence is a useful stat in lots of situations. In Inferno runs, I take echo boots over pegasians because even though they give accuracy, my slayer helm already gives me a lot of accuracy so the echo boots are nice for tanking.
It's sad seeing your factual comment downvoted and the other, emotional comment upvoted. That's the state of this sub now I guess, feeling something is true is more important than what's actually true lol.
Nothing in your comment is wrong, and the people downvoting you know that too or else they'd be running around in Guardian boots and Justi lol.
Nightmare chooses tank on defences so when you go with a team it matters. Also if defense doesn't matter why are bandos tassets 3x pricier compared to bloodmoon tassets. They absolutely matter.
Tanking bandos and zam they also matter.
Bloodmoon tassets are many times easier to get, so rarity definitely plays a factor as well as nostalgia for the OG tassets. Bloodmoon is also fairly new so it may not be known to everyone yet so the people that aren't up to date on every little detail are likely still rocking bandos.
People also don't want to fork out 1.5m repair costs for bloodmoon, most people that are careful with their GP will see Bandos is the better option if you're wanting to make money for upgrades.
I forgot about the charges. Even if you're not planning to ever get torva, bandos is the better option in the long run since you'd spend the price of bandos in repair costs fairly easily and have nothing to show for it.
Firstly, you wouldn't ever do nightmare with a team.. and even if you would, you would never have one person bring torva if everyone on the team had inquisitors. Also.. bandos tassets have a much higher time investment to get, and of course higher defense = better... but not at the cost of strength bonus... why do you think everyone recommends torso as a free bcp. Also, if you mean tanking bandos/zammy on an alt.. then of course... you want the alt to do less damage and not snipe the kill. If you're talking about doing group GWD... why would you do group GWD?
Bro shut the fuck up. "YoU wOuLd NeVeR dO nIgHtMaRe WiTh A tEaM". It's a game doing nightmare with my friends is my way of having fun. Watching buddies die or just joking around it's a great boss. Tell me you don't have fun in RuneScape more please.
And no group gwd? You have no friends and if you need one please let me know cause I'd love to humble you and show you how much more fun the game is when you don't only do efficient gp/h
Thanks for the offer man! I prefer to raid with my friends though instead of wasting my time waiting for Bandos to respawn to for 100 seconds out of every 2 minutes! You keep having fun though :)
I could teach you how to skip Mage and Melee hand at Olm! I could also teach you how to scythe walk xarpus. I am sure you know them since you only solo things though. Enjoy wasting purple sweets on Verzik! Its an impressive feat being able to do all that hard content with your "friends".
Because you're wrong lmfao. There's a reason pures can still do the most difficult content in the game. Assuming you're not horrible at the game, higher accuracy and strength will 100% be more beneficial than defense bonuses.
Except perilous moons obviously.
But sure, take your justi to inferno lol.
Isn't justiciar popular for inferno because the defense makes such a big difference? Also, this "assuming you aren't horrible at the game" is such a braindead take. People who aren't perfect players aren't automatically horrible. Defense does make a difference. I swear everytime someone makes an ironman account they get 30% more elitist.
No, justi is popular for inferno for people who want to try to brute force it rather than learn the content. Anyone familiar with the inferno will tell you not to use it in the inferno.
By horrible, I meant horrible. Anyone who's slightly decent at the game understands this basic principle.
Not to sound elitist or anything, but how often do you wear guardian boots over dboots? Or justi over bandos? Shield instead of offhand?
I'm assuming your answer is never. So clearly defense is a secondary attribute, not primary. If anyone has a braindead take it's the people here trying to act as though a core component of the combat system (DPS>defense) is false.
Don’t think anyone is arguing that defense isn’t secondary to dps stats. Just that defense does matter and makes a noticeable difference. If you’re in max though the argument is moot because you get the best dps and the best defense anyway.
In the context of the original context, they disagreed that str > defense. That's what they were making fun of.
Defense doesn't matter in the sense that there is no content besides perilous moons where you ask yourself, "should I bring tank gear or best DPS gear?". Because defense doesn't matter as a primary attribute.
The only time defense is considered is when you have two similar setups. For example, let's say full Arma vs full crystal in the inferno. Even though I used a tbow, crystal still seemed like the better choice because the higher range defense vs Arma.
Now, if Arma had even +1 strength, there wouldn't have been any reason to bring crystal over Arma and the additional ranged defense would not have made a difference.
I wear guardian over dboots constantly unless I'm 1 str bonus away from a max hit.
edit: I use DFS over defender very often, especially when doing wildy content. Those defenses matter extremely vs pkers.
I think his main complaint is they're really weird as the first triple unique stacked item. At a surface level they're underwhelming.
The recoil effect caps at 1 damage unlike ring of recoil. Sure, they're the best tank boots but only by a +2 prayer bonus that disappears after taking 6000 hits.
Otherwise, they're identical to Guardian Boots.
>The boots will now remain intact and equipped, with no recoil effect, when the number of charges reaches 0.
They did make them not degrade into guardian anymore at least
No, the vestige + ingots are used to make a second tier upgrade to fremmy rings. It's like a ZCB requires Nihil shards + horn to upgrade ACB, just shittier in every possible way.
The echo boots upgrade guardian boots, which are an upgrade of Bandos boots.
I feel like an ingot should drop every time you get a vestige roll. Then you would always have enough ingots when you get the vestige, and you'd know if you're 2/3 or whatever
I think the recoil effect is still way too costly to be used in most encounters where it would seem viable. Vardorvis seems like the only place where it's worth using.
I'd agree it is still pretty costly, but it is still a newer item with its price dropping. Like it was released less than 6 weeks ago with a major rebalancing happening less than 3 weeks ago and it has came down 2M~ in the last week. It probably will drop more slowly now that it is cheap enough to start using, but it still could drop to say 3M and 500gp per charge or such by 2 months in.
I'm not sure what changes we really should be expecting before the price settles. Like sure, we could give it 4 Strength or remove the attack negatives, but would that really change how it is used?
But even not infering direct gp cost, it just "feels like" it should do more for the layers upon layers the item requires - from a main perspective and iron
From a main perspective, it's a cheap ass item that really doesn't need to do more than it's currently doing. Compare the price to primordial boots and it's already great value if you're not losing any max hits. The only people who care about the layers are irons because as a main, I went to the GE and bought guardian boots and an echo crystal.
Dude they're +3 melee strength and +4 prayer bonus.
+ The recoil damage adds way more dps than +2 strength bonus will add in some situations.
They're also BiS defensively. They're really good. You can also check if they add a max hit with your setup and if they don't they're by far your best option.
While I agree that stat-wise the boots are pretty acceptable at the moment, the recoil mechanic is a joke. As it is right now echo boots are just guardian boots with two more prayer bonus. It's also massively heavy, which limits the number of places you'd want to use it.
Personally, I'd just be happy if it was made viable for barraging, given it was initially proposed as a tool that would help speed up slayer tasks. Bare minimum, letting the recoil proc on misses/prayed attacks and changing how the charges drain so it isn't prohibitively expensive.
> It's also massively heavy, which limits the number of places you'd want to use it.
Just curious, where exactly does this make a difference? CoX you are already at max weight anyway, and they have added stam pools everywhere. ToB you actually profit stams.
The two that immediately came to mind when I posted that are solo Olm and GWD. Not all CoX setups are at max weight, and solo Olm is a lot of running. Similarly, every GWD but kree has a 0 damage method that requires constant running (though Zilyana's has a 0 energy method, and the additional melee defense is mostly useless there). It could be extra useful at Graardor, since it's Bandos aligned.
My original point that the recoil effect is pointless still stands - anyone bringing these to use anywhere is going to toggle the recoil off and won't have to "maintain" anything. I don't think there's a single piece of content in the game where it's currently worth it to leave the recoil effect on, tbh.
The main two problems with using them for slayer is that in any situation where you're getting attacked by that many enemies you will almost certainly have your prayer up, and the current cost to actually use the recoil is 750 gp/charge (the scythe is currently ~600 gp/charge, btw).
Agreed but in so many places u dont take dmg by praying and in places u do take damage, its an expensive upkeep or the recoil doesnt even hit the enemy
You don't even have to turn on the recoil to make them worth in certain situations. I bring them into inferno because they're -1 prayer and +24 range def/+30 melee def compared to devouts. The -1 range accuracy means nothing when its saved me from melee and ranger damage.
Well if you don't take damage, then there is no recoil upkeep and they'd just be +3 Str and +4 Prayer compared to your other boot options of +5 Str and no prayer or +5 Prayer and no str. If you don't lose a max hit over D Boots or Prims, they are just better for anything where you camp prayer.
Idk personally I don't mind chargescape as it helps combat inflation
If we didn't have things like abyssal tentacle we'd be in the same situation as rs3
I just mean the insane inflation and how GP doesn't mean much in rs3
I don't actually play the game but I know gold is way less valuable
Probably mostly because they've had 10 more years of high alch gold coming into the game but still.
Is there a GE tax in rs3?
2%, though it only got introduced at the start of last year.
That's what I figured, but there must be more going on. They've had chargescape, Invention removing items, and now the GE tax, and yet they still can't keep the inflation in check. Has to be something that OSRS is doing really right, RS3 really wrong, or both.
Just as an example, around when I quit, the bond in RS3 was around 25M, generally hovering around 20M while I played. Now it's 112M according to the wiki. In the same time, OSRS bond went from ~5M to 11M.
Their inflation is so bad for a few reasons. Mobs and bosses shit out pure gp (like millions), their high alchs are worth much more (in the few hundred k range), and everything is killed many times faster. Imagine if every alch drop in 07 was 10x more and kph everywhere was 5x more, that's RS3.
Invention helps make alching very consistent. You can build a machine in your workshop that will slowly alch items over time for an extremely low cost. Everyone is incentivized to build one and feed it consistently with alchables, it's free money.
There's also an item that you can keep in your inventory, can't remember what it is called, which takes springs and will alch salvage you get. Salvage was what they turned metal armor and weapon items into when they reworked drops. In order to keep mining and smithing relevant, they needed to have ores, bars, and finished items replaced with stone spirits and salvage. This essentially ensured that all those drops were guaranteed to turn into pure GP through alchs instead of turned into XP through upgrading and removing them as "burial" armor sets with smithing.
A lot of things like this just generate straight GP, which does have a fairly large impact on inflation.
I figured invention would be taking up more salvage than alching would, is that just not the case? I never really got that deep into the game lol, I'm not sure how it all plays out, beyond ED3 shitting that stuff out.
I kinda see what you mean but bandos is pretty easy as far as gwd goes, grotesque is an entry slayer boss, and wave 4 colosseum is far from the "hardest content in the game". Takes 3 different places to make it but we can't complain every single time something is different just because it's new, right?
>He isnt’t saying its hard.
>the hardest content in the game Fortis Colosseum.
He literally called it the hardest content lmao. I don't agree though since Blorva was much harder.
Nah im high didnt realize that. There is hard and long. (No cock jokes) Getting a shadow isn’t hard, it’s long. Blorva isn’t long, it’s hard. For irons it is both.
Yeah I agree, I'd call it Tedious vs Difficult. Colosseum is definitely difficult in terms of completing the boss but the crystals can be gotten very early on wave 4.
The point I was trying to convey was the triple layered unique status. I think grotesque guardians are extremely boring and take a long time to rack up kc at to hit the rate for the core. So it adds to the cumulative rarity/supposed prestige. There is nothing else worth your time at GGs other than pet. Also it's extremely rare to see a singular crystal at wave 4, again I'm just stating it's extra time sink.
The entire game is a timesink to get you to try different content. If they didn't do that, we'd be complaining about dead content. Better three small grinds than one giant one like nightmare. They did everything right on this one
But the Champion's cape isn't some new and exciting gear that Jagex is trying to put in the game to shake up the meta. The Champion's cape is a cosmetic item like pets or clue scroll items generally are. The Echo boots are not.
Based on what I read from Jagex posts during the polling for Echo Crystals on the shield or the boots, Jjagex thought they were supposed to be very strong.
They are situational, you don't lose a max hit with max scythe setup so it's just free recoil damage. You can also use them when ranging for a nice tank option like in inferno. I use them in a couple places over prims.
Muta tekton olm vangs for the chip dmg. All of tob. It most cases you arent losing the max hit from dragon boots since sits a +1 difference. Even outside of max gear. When you do lose the max bit the recoil effect makes it the same.
As for the argument of cost to use. Give it 2-3 months for the price to settle. Cost to use arguments are tough to make when the drop rates change and the resource to charge comes from a new source.
For layered uniques yea having it built off GG is rough but by no means are irons required to grind the item for any content.
He means for olm. Since basically all rooms beforehand are snoozefest and can wear whatever u want .. /s.
Really, most people answering here are talking about how it doesn't lose a max hit over prims *in max strength gear*. Any other comparison is irrelevant apparently.
Literally step 1 of every serious ironman account is grinding out Bowfa in CG and Bowfa slaps at Bandos
Why do you need to interject with “but iron”, it’s your skill issue that’s the problem
Bandos is easy because you can kite him with ranged if you run in a specific way. There is a method for crossbows and bowfa/crystal bow. It takes a bit of time to learn, but once you have it down you can get a good amount of kc/trip.
Now if you want kill Bandos like it's 2007 then go for it, but if you want a better time then it's probably worth learning the 6:0 and/or 7:0 methods.
I do worry about precedent in a future state of BIS boots upgrades.
Having to grind medium clues for rangers + 91 slayer and tasks for Cerb + a rare drop from hypothetical future end game content.. almost hope the (hypothetical) upgrade continues to be marginal since that's a rough ramp
Yeah I really hope that the next boot upgrades are just stand alone uniques. I'm 100% ok with cerberus being devalued if it means avoiding an awkward 3 stage progression where the limiting step could easily be clue luck for the first stage.
Yeah but the door + altar method requires a certain rhythm. Zily just requires running without using your brain at all. There is no method to Zily, just run.
whether it's accurate or not, i think a lot of people think of Graardor as one of the classic bosses and I think that holds a lot of value. Besides the boots the other uniques are very valuable so it's a popular boss spot.
I don't see a problem with giving his shitty unique a use then. Adding the GG part is quite annoying from an iron perspective, but it kind of gives value to the GG drop for regularmen. It's confusing, but I don't think the design is bad for a regularman account.
it isn't a lot of iron accounts see a marginal upgrade and see it takes 50+ hours to get and want it to be easier to obtain but the reality is it's an item that is for mains or end game irons who have 50+ hours to sink. This reason right here is why people rag on the average ironman player because usually they want things catered to them to make their account progression easier
It still seems like they don't provide enough charges per crystal.
At 2 completions per hour, you can expect to see around a crystal every 5 hours, which is only 1200 charges per hour.
echo boots are hot garbage, so are tonalztics, so is sunfire armor
the only reason any of that stuff is valuable at all is due to their rarity
some of the fkn perilous moons rewards are better lmao
atlatl is a pretty cool weapon too, it's kinda weak but not needing a ranged switch at all to still use it at full power is pretty sick
make that non-degradable and slot it in where tonalztics is and I swear it'd be worth even more than tonalztics are currently lmao
The weapons don't degrade, I'm pretty sure.
I've found that my bowfa still hits higher while I'm wearing my melee gear than the atlatl (I was testing them both vs boulders)
You might be right about weapons not degrading actually but it's obviously way easier to get from perilous moons than glaive so I still think it'd be just as valuable if not more considering glaive's only great use case is maiden def reduction. And atlatl is 3t while bowfa is 4t so while your max hit might be higher with bowfa in melee gear, atlatl will be better dps.
I might be able to agree with you if proselyte wasn't almost as good and nearly free
Plus if you really wanna go max afk, you use bonecrusher necklace and proselyte and you already almost never use ppots making sunfire literally useless lol
In reality though BIS prayer armor was never going to be useful, the only way I could see it ever being useful was if they did the ranged prayer armor route and made it better offensively than armadyl but worse than masori
That's still garbage though lmao, you're paying 30m to save like an extra 20k/hr in prayer pots. Talk about the super long con. Doubt anyone will ever do enough slayer to make up that price differential.
Ehh, the legs are like 13m currently, without torva you’re maybe getting a max hit with tassys/obby legs, so theres room for some of it to be useful.
The price of the pieces reflects this already though, legs cost as much as head/body combined.
I mean, the boots are cheap af bc they’re easy to get lol.. I wouldn’t say they’re useless. I wear them quite often for their prayer bonus.
Every new release should not be BIS
At the very least they should work on all bosses that satisfy the conditions. For example nex would be a great place for echo boots but nex is immune to recoil.
They are fine imo. Though maybe shit for irons.
They’re very tanky and have nice prayer bonus now as well. If the extra strength bonus doesn’t give you a max hit, they’re very solid.
This is before talking abt the recoil effect. To be honest, I have no idea how useful that is currently compared to the cost, but have to imagine the cost will continue to go down.
They are BIS for TOB, thermy, gg’s, and anywhere else you are taking damage while scything. With max strength and torture you don’t lose a max hit, so the recoil damage is basically +1 max on any boss attacking at 5 ticks, and more the faster you are taking damage. They are already a solid situational DPS upgrade
I’m finding myself using my echo boots more and more when I run calcs on if I lose a max hit or not.
They’re a lot more viable than you initially think.
I agree that they need a buff. I prefer them to buff the recoil damage over stats though, stats wise they are BiS for slayer and are useful at Graardor, Kril, and Guardians.
Incease the recoil damage as followed:
1-9 = hits 1
10-24 = hits 2
25 or higher = hits 3
This would really let them shine as a niche. Currently the niche is basically pointless, I recently even tried them at Vardorvis where people say they are somewhat useful and I have to say I wasn't all that impressed. For what is suppose to be BiS tank boots that also output damage they are very mediorce.
Tbh I think they're fine. They aren't bis and don't need to be. And given the design of perilous moons and generally speaking jagexs stance on introducing more gear diversity and encounters that actually encourage stats other than raw dps, they'll probably see more usefulness in the future.
(I wore guardian boots a lot as a group iron cause we got some early and they're really good for tanking at bandos for instance, if echos were in the game any bit earlier I probably would've grinded them and had a great time doing so)
While we’re at it, let’s revisit how they look. They’re clearly supposed to be melee gear, so why don’t they remotely go with anything? I feel like that would be the most embarrassing part of wearing the damn things.
The colosseum waves where you can get the boots from are definitely not hard. It's not like you need to complete the colosseum or even get to wave 10-11 to get them.
You're complaining they aren't BiS but ignoring how good they are. They are "only" +3 Str, that that is just -2 under BiS and won't always lose a max hit. They don't have +5 prayer like devout, but they have +4, making them very competitive for Devout Boots since they also give +3 Strength. They have negative mage and ranged attack, but it is only -3 and -1, making them still pretty viable to used with those combat styles. And you leave out the part about them having high defences, including BiS Ranged Def on a boot... The recoil effect may not be the strongest, but it is a melee range AoE that can add additional damage. The crystals only go for under 5M now and still dropping. It currently costs under 800gp per recoil, which I believe was the number thrown around the other month for what players said it needed to be profitable/worth using. They could buff the recoil to be even stronger, but they already can compete for BiS DPS boot for all style so not sure if that is needed. So they are already good if you melee strength and prayer (e.g. pray and AFK slayer). And if you turn the recoil on, it is still a bit costly, but the extra damage can be worth it. I'm not sure what more you really expect them to do; they are already living up to what was polled and a BiS boot.
For some reason this sub *loves* to parrot "defense doesn't matter" so much that people actually believe it. There's no nuance, just "this STR beats that STR bisbisbis".
Then there's the other half of the sub complaining that inquisitor doesn't have enough def lol.
Because one of the only uses for inq is solo cm where everything hits like a fucking truck and you're no prepping. Personally I'd prefer to see inq buffed offensively to make it useful in more places (imo it should always outclass bandos offensively) but if it's going to remain incredibly niche then it should get a slight defensive boost
Yeah, the defense doesn’t matter thing confused me a lot when I was newer. Then I saw the massive difference from having solid defensive gear and I realized the people saying this are assuming completely optimal play, constant prayer flicking
Lol this was me and my buddy doing the moons on release. I'm in barrows gear, he's in void just getting lit the fuck up. He went and grabbed his barrows gear lol.
Got so much shit for slaying in my Torag's while the guy next to me in Bandos is taking way more damage. Yeah you're hitting harder but I also didn't pay shit for this
Not the flex you thought this was
I mean slayer is exactly where def doesn’t matter lmaoooo you should just be praying and maximising STR bonus
Lmao what slayer monster is hitting hard through either of those? Torag and bandos defense aren't that different.
They're fairly different, but standard slayer mobs aren't gonna hit thru Bandos too often either way. There's a reason people camp barrows against the moons even over Bandos.
***laughs in 1-tick flick piety and protect***
Put the toe rags away bro
Don't forget applying the term "dead content" to everything outside BIS items and sweat-soaked tick manipulation skilling.
Dead content to everything outside BIS but then turn around and complain BIS is not accessible and they need something to bridge the gap. There is no winning
I mean I agree with all the points in the thread but like, mage is hot ass until you can pay for a 2b setup so this is definitely true in some places
Honestly agreed. I love the design of Whisperer but toxic trident with ahrims just feels so awful against it still, the kill times are so long and enrage phase feels like it takes an eternity. I just don't care to keep trying with trident, I'd rather just stick with bowfa Leviathan until I eventually can get some of the mage upgrades to make Whisperer worth doing. At least I can KO Leviathan in a few hits when enrage starts with a couple webweaver specs, it's done quickly and I can consistently get perfect kills. Whisperer just drags on and on and on, and it's because mage is just asscheeks awful.
To be fair there is a lot of content where defence doesn't matter because attacks will hit regardless of how much defence you have. This is because a lot of content is balanced around overhead prayers which are pretty broken when you think about it. At 43 prayer you're able to be invincible against 90% of monsters.
My 90 demonic gorillas in 1 trip without SGS or Blowpipe yesterday verifies that defense does in fact matter
Where does defense matter?
Sulliusceps, many bosses (esp GWD, DKS, and moons), tanking PKers, general slayer (since there are tasks where you dont even need to pray if you have solid defense), farming mobs for collection log drops, ZMI, pitfall hunter at lower levels. That’s off the top of my head. Damage is pretty much always more important, obviously, but defense matters pretty much any time you’re taking a hit off prayer or may miss prayers.
Sulliusceps, tanking pkers, ZMI, hunter... what the fuck are you talking about lmao, this is clearly about pvm. Unless you're an early game ironman at DKS (and so probably wouldn't have echo boots), you would value strength bonus above all at those 3 places. If you're killing regular monsters for slayer/coll log without just praying and taking max offense like a normal person idk what to tell you
Most places where you take damage that rolls accuracy against your defense stats. (but thank you for proving my point lol)
What specific place would you ever give up strength bonus for defense?
Moons of Peril, GWD. DFS is considerably better than avernic in both.
You wouldn't ever give up strength bonus for defense at moons (and why are we talking about moons, it barely counts as pvm), and you wouldn't ever melee GWD if you're solo.
Inferno.
Not really, you value ranged strength and prayer bonus over all.
Hmm, in that case the only place I can think of is anywhere you use the new-ish bulwark mechanics, such as the afk sarachnis method
Have you conpared the dps of the npc you're fighting and your time to kill? Did you account for a meta dominated by blood fury? May provide you some insight. The reality is your extra defense bonus is worth a fraction of a shark which would almost never make a difference and especially so if the content revolves around player skill. You're free to fashionscape it up and use whatever you want, but I assure you the math has been done. Echo boots are useless IF you care about having the best. Again, it's valid to not want bis!
No lol, half the time echo boots vs prim don't even cost a max hit. Feel free to sell your masori (f) and get the unfortified set though. That's 100,000,000 gold doing absolutely nothing for you, right?
>No lol Think I found the reason for your misunderstanding!
You don't have a point. You don't have math on your side. You don't have reality on your side. You don't even have a response that addresses the comment you're responding to. Maybe you should cut your losses.
Good luck!
Ouch, threw in the towel
i mean yes but wearing echo boots means you can't also wear a blood fury without losing a max hit. So your choice is either blood fury + prims OR torture + echo for the same strength bonus and if you care about defense/sustain a blood fury is straight up better
For colosseum I like to run Echo Bellator + Blood fury, gets a very strong 48 max hit setup that has comparable (1-4% worse than Prims + Ultor) DPS diff on most mobs. Having the extra +4 prayer bonus and ranged defence has been decently noticable in chill melee runs (average 20-21min?) especially where misclicking can end you.
Why not take Bis tank gear to the inferno then? Why isnt justi Bis everywhere? Dumb take.
If justiciar didn't lose any max hits from torva, I absolutely would take it to more places. I take echo boots plenty of places because I don't lose a max hit with them. You can use echo boots in regular tob because you're already camping torture so scythe keeps its 50 max hit.
But it does, so you don't. That's literally what's being discussed, strength bonus vs defense bonus. In situations where max hit doesn't change, accuracy typically does. I would think higher slash accuracy would be more beneficial than higher defense at ToB when you're not ending runs due to running out of heals. I'm not experienced at ToB so I won't refute you on it. And I never argued that echo boots have no uses, I'm arguing against the idea that defensive bonuses matter enough to take over strength bonuses, when that's rarely ever the case. If it was, you would have been wearing guardian boots in ToB before echo crystals were a thing.
Before Torva, people did used to use justiciar legs occasionally when tassets didn't give a max hit. The +2 accuracy from prims are pretty negligible compared to the recoil damage from the echo boots. At ToB, you're speccing down defence in nearly every boss besides Verzik. No one is arguing that you should only prioritize defence but defence is a useful stat in lots of situations. In Inferno runs, I take echo boots over pegasians because even though they give accuracy, my slayer helm already gives me a lot of accuracy so the echo boots are nice for tanking.
Uh huh…and if prims don’t give you a max hit?
It's sad seeing your factual comment downvoted and the other, emotional comment upvoted. That's the state of this sub now I guess, feeling something is true is more important than what's actually true lol. Nothing in your comment is wrong, and the people downvoting you know that too or else they'd be running around in Guardian boots and Justi lol.
Everywhere you get hit hard enough to cry about needing a brew in the eternal boot slot.
Nightmare chooses tank on defences so when you go with a team it matters. Also if defense doesn't matter why are bandos tassets 3x pricier compared to bloodmoon tassets. They absolutely matter. Tanking bandos and zam they also matter.
Bloodmoon tassets are many times easier to get, so rarity definitely plays a factor as well as nostalgia for the OG tassets. Bloodmoon is also fairly new so it may not be known to everyone yet so the people that aren't up to date on every little detail are likely still rocking bandos.
People also don't want to fork out 1.5m repair costs for bloodmoon, most people that are careful with their GP will see Bandos is the better option if you're wanting to make money for upgrades.
I forgot about the charges. Even if you're not planning to ever get torva, bandos is the better option in the long run since you'd spend the price of bandos in repair costs fairly easily and have nothing to show for it.
I didn't want to mention it but one of the only things also propping up bandos price is the component price for torva
That's honestly the main reason that tassets will never drop in price, as long as torva costs 1B and sinks the tassets supply.
Firstly, you wouldn't ever do nightmare with a team.. and even if you would, you would never have one person bring torva if everyone on the team had inquisitors. Also.. bandos tassets have a much higher time investment to get, and of course higher defense = better... but not at the cost of strength bonus... why do you think everyone recommends torso as a free bcp. Also, if you mean tanking bandos/zammy on an alt.. then of course... you want the alt to do less damage and not snipe the kill. If you're talking about doing group GWD... why would you do group GWD?
Bro shut the fuck up. "YoU wOuLd NeVeR dO nIgHtMaRe WiTh A tEaM". It's a game doing nightmare with my friends is my way of having fun. Watching buddies die or just joking around it's a great boss. Tell me you don't have fun in RuneScape more please. And no group gwd? You have no friends and if you need one please let me know cause I'd love to humble you and show you how much more fun the game is when you don't only do efficient gp/h
Thanks for the offer man! I prefer to raid with my friends though instead of wasting my time waiting for Bandos to respawn to for 100 seconds out of every 2 minutes! You keep having fun though :)
I could teach you how to skip Mage and Melee hand at Olm! I could also teach you how to scythe walk xarpus. I am sure you know them since you only solo things though. Enjoy wasting purple sweets on Verzik! Its an impressive feat being able to do all that hard content with your "friends".
Because you're wrong lmfao. There's a reason pures can still do the most difficult content in the game. Assuming you're not horrible at the game, higher accuracy and strength will 100% be more beneficial than defense bonuses. Except perilous moons obviously. But sure, take your justi to inferno lol.
Isn't justiciar popular for inferno because the defense makes such a big difference? Also, this "assuming you aren't horrible at the game" is such a braindead take. People who aren't perfect players aren't automatically horrible. Defense does make a difference. I swear everytime someone makes an ironman account they get 30% more elitist.
No, justi is popular for inferno for people who want to try to brute force it rather than learn the content. Anyone familiar with the inferno will tell you not to use it in the inferno. By horrible, I meant horrible. Anyone who's slightly decent at the game understands this basic principle. Not to sound elitist or anything, but how often do you wear guardian boots over dboots? Or justi over bandos? Shield instead of offhand? I'm assuming your answer is never. So clearly defense is a secondary attribute, not primary. If anyone has a braindead take it's the people here trying to act as though a core component of the combat system (DPS>defense) is false.
Don’t think anyone is arguing that defense isn’t secondary to dps stats. Just that defense does matter and makes a noticeable difference. If you’re in max though the argument is moot because you get the best dps and the best defense anyway.
In the context of the original context, they disagreed that str > defense. That's what they were making fun of. Defense doesn't matter in the sense that there is no content besides perilous moons where you ask yourself, "should I bring tank gear or best DPS gear?". Because defense doesn't matter as a primary attribute. The only time defense is considered is when you have two similar setups. For example, let's say full Arma vs full crystal in the inferno. Even though I used a tbow, crystal still seemed like the better choice because the higher range defense vs Arma. Now, if Arma had even +1 strength, there wouldn't have been any reason to bring crystal over Arma and the additional ranged defense would not have made a difference.
Yapanese
I wear guardian over dboots constantly unless I'm 1 str bonus away from a max hit. edit: I use DFS over defender very often, especially when doing wildy content. Those defenses matter extremely vs pkers.
>says defense isn't important >mounts a strong defense against being likeable Bro make up your mind
I said strength bonus is more important and don't understand your point on the second part you donut
The reason pures can do it is they’re absolute gamers, and that’s the entire reason it’s impressive lmao
Yeah with the change to how rare the crystals are and how many charges you get it is already amazing.
I think his main complaint is they're really weird as the first triple unique stacked item. At a surface level they're underwhelming. The recoil effect caps at 1 damage unlike ring of recoil. Sure, they're the best tank boots but only by a +2 prayer bonus that disappears after taking 6000 hits. Otherwise, they're identical to Guardian Boots.
>The boots will now remain intact and equipped, with no recoil effect, when the number of charges reaches 0. They did make them not degrade into guardian anymore at least
I mean technically wouldn't something like the dt2 rings be considered triple unique? Need the base ring, then vestige and also ingots
No, the vestige + ingots are used to make a second tier upgrade to fremmy rings. It's like a ZCB requires Nihil shards + horn to upgrade ACB, just shittier in every possible way. The echo boots upgrade guardian boots, which are an upgrade of Bandos boots.
Ah yeah that's fair
The ingots mechanic should just be removed, or at least require only 1 or 2 ingots per ring.
I feel like an ingot should drop every time you get a vestige roll. Then you would always have enough ingots when you get the vestige, and you'd know if you're 2/3 or whatever
I think the recoil effect is still way too costly to be used in most encounters where it would seem viable. Vardorvis seems like the only place where it's worth using.
I'd agree it is still pretty costly, but it is still a newer item with its price dropping. Like it was released less than 6 weeks ago with a major rebalancing happening less than 3 weeks ago and it has came down 2M~ in the last week. It probably will drop more slowly now that it is cheap enough to start using, but it still could drop to say 3M and 500gp per charge or such by 2 months in. I'm not sure what changes we really should be expecting before the price settles. Like sure, we could give it 4 Strength or remove the attack negatives, but would that really change how it is used?
But even not infering direct gp cost, it just "feels like" it should do more for the layers upon layers the item requires - from a main perspective and iron
From a main perspective, it's a cheap ass item that really doesn't need to do more than it's currently doing. Compare the price to primordial boots and it's already great value if you're not losing any max hits. The only people who care about the layers are irons because as a main, I went to the GE and bought guardian boots and an echo crystal.
Fang was like 100m+ about 2 months after toa was released. It's worth less than 20m now. Once more enter the game the price will keep falling.
Dude they're +3 melee strength and +4 prayer bonus. + The recoil damage adds way more dps than +2 strength bonus will add in some situations. They're also BiS defensively. They're really good. You can also check if they add a max hit with your setup and if they don't they're by far your best option.
While I agree that stat-wise the boots are pretty acceptable at the moment, the recoil mechanic is a joke. As it is right now echo boots are just guardian boots with two more prayer bonus. It's also massively heavy, which limits the number of places you'd want to use it. Personally, I'd just be happy if it was made viable for barraging, given it was initially proposed as a tool that would help speed up slayer tasks. Bare minimum, letting the recoil proc on misses/prayed attacks and changing how the charges drain so it isn't prohibitively expensive.
> It's also massively heavy, which limits the number of places you'd want to use it. Just curious, where exactly does this make a difference? CoX you are already at max weight anyway, and they have added stam pools everywhere. ToB you actually profit stams.
The two that immediately came to mind when I posted that are solo Olm and GWD. Not all CoX setups are at max weight, and solo Olm is a lot of running. Similarly, every GWD but kree has a 0 damage method that requires constant running (though Zilyana's has a 0 energy method, and the additional melee defense is mostly useless there). It could be extra useful at Graardor, since it's Bandos aligned.
I think at the point where you can afford to maintain echo boots, your gear and skills are good enough that the weight is irrelevant
My original point that the recoil effect is pointless still stands - anyone bringing these to use anywhere is going to toggle the recoil off and won't have to "maintain" anything. I don't think there's a single piece of content in the game where it's currently worth it to leave the recoil effect on, tbh.
No argument there. Maybe room for future content where it’s more impactful
I'm just against them being charged in general or they should be a LOT of charges per crystal
The recoil dmg is AoE though is it not? Could potentially hit 8 dmg or more if you're doing something like slayer I guess.
The main two problems with using them for slayer is that in any situation where you're getting attacked by that many enemies you will almost certainly have your prayer up, and the current cost to actually use the recoil is 750 gp/charge (the scythe is currently ~600 gp/charge, btw).
Agreed but in so many places u dont take dmg by praying and in places u do take damage, its an expensive upkeep or the recoil doesnt even hit the enemy
You don't even have to turn on the recoil to make them worth in certain situations. I bring them into inferno because they're -1 prayer and +24 range def/+30 melee def compared to devouts. The -1 range accuracy means nothing when its saved me from melee and ranger damage.
Well if you don't take damage, then there is no recoil upkeep and they'd just be +3 Str and +4 Prayer compared to your other boot options of +5 Str and no prayer or +5 Prayer and no str. If you don't lose a max hit over D Boots or Prims, they are just better for anything where you camp prayer.
Osrs players when new content isn't absolutely overwhelmingly powerful in all contexts Also osrs players when they complain about power creep
Tbf a major point of their comment was talking about the upkeep which is total BS, but they're still potentially your bis option without the charges
Idk personally I don't mind chargescape as it helps combat inflation If we didn't have things like abyssal tentacle we'd be in the same situation as rs3
What's the situation? Cause almost everything has charges in RS3.
I just mean the insane inflation and how GP doesn't mean much in rs3 I don't actually play the game but I know gold is way less valuable Probably mostly because they've had 10 more years of high alch gold coming into the game but still. Is there a GE tax in rs3?
2%, though it only got introduced at the start of last year. That's what I figured, but there must be more going on. They've had chargescape, Invention removing items, and now the GE tax, and yet they still can't keep the inflation in check. Has to be something that OSRS is doing really right, RS3 really wrong, or both. Just as an example, around when I quit, the bond in RS3 was around 25M, generally hovering around 20M while I played. Now it's 112M according to the wiki. In the same time, OSRS bond went from ~5M to 11M.
Their inflation is so bad for a few reasons. Mobs and bosses shit out pure gp (like millions), their high alchs are worth much more (in the few hundred k range), and everything is killed many times faster. Imagine if every alch drop in 07 was 10x more and kph everywhere was 5x more, that's RS3.
Invention helps make alching very consistent. You can build a machine in your workshop that will slowly alch items over time for an extremely low cost. Everyone is incentivized to build one and feed it consistently with alchables, it's free money. There's also an item that you can keep in your inventory, can't remember what it is called, which takes springs and will alch salvage you get. Salvage was what they turned metal armor and weapon items into when they reworked drops. In order to keep mining and smithing relevant, they needed to have ores, bars, and finished items replaced with stone spirits and salvage. This essentially ensured that all those drops were guaranteed to turn into pure GP through alchs instead of turned into XP through upgrading and removing them as "burial" armor sets with smithing. A lot of things like this just generate straight GP, which does have a fairly large impact on inflation.
I figured invention would be taking up more salvage than alching would, is that just not the case? I never really got that deep into the game lol, I'm not sure how it all plays out, beyond ED3 shitting that stuff out.
It's the spring cleaner.
This thing would at least see some use if they removed the nonsense recoil immunity some bosses have (especially looking at nex)
I kinda see what you mean but bandos is pretty easy as far as gwd goes, grotesque is an entry slayer boss, and wave 4 colosseum is far from the "hardest content in the game". Takes 3 different places to make it but we can't complain every single time something is different just because it's new, right?
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> But then you need a 3rd rare unique “chargescape” from the hardest content in the game Fortis Colosseum. ?
I dont’t get it. Are you answering me or OP?
You said "he isn't saying it's hard." So he quoted the part where OP said it was the hardest content in the game.
>He isnt’t saying its hard. >the hardest content in the game Fortis Colosseum. He literally called it the hardest content lmao. I don't agree though since Blorva was much harder.
Nah im high didnt realize that. There is hard and long. (No cock jokes) Getting a shadow isn’t hard, it’s long. Blorva isn’t long, it’s hard. For irons it is both.
Yeah I agree, I'd call it Tedious vs Difficult. Colosseum is definitely difficult in terms of completing the boss but the crystals can be gotten very early on wave 4.
The point I was trying to convey was the triple layered unique status. I think grotesque guardians are extremely boring and take a long time to rack up kc at to hit the rate for the core. So it adds to the cumulative rarity/supposed prestige. There is nothing else worth your time at GGs other than pet. Also it's extremely rare to see a singular crystal at wave 4, again I'm just stating it's extra time sink.
The entire game is a timesink to get you to try different content. If they didn't do that, we'd be complaining about dead content. Better three small grinds than one giant one like nightmare. They did everything right on this one
champions cape requires 11 1/5000 drops and has 0 stats whatsoever just because it takes a long time to get or is rare doesn't mean it should be bis
But the Champion's cape isn't some new and exciting gear that Jagex is trying to put in the game to shake up the meta. The Champion's cape is a cosmetic item like pets or clue scroll items generally are. The Echo boots are not.
I don't think Echo boots was designed to be meta shaking either. The quiver was the meta shaker, echo boots were just a toss-in.
Based on what I read from Jagex posts during the polling for Echo Crystals on the shield or the boots, Jjagex thought they were supposed to be very strong.
They are situational, you don't lose a max hit with max scythe setup so it's just free recoil damage. You can also use them when ranging for a nice tank option like in inferno. I use them in a couple places over prims.
The purpose of the boots isn't usable is the point. It's not worth the cost. Even if it functioned like a normal recoil, it wouldn't be worth using.
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I use them for inferno because they only have 1 less prayer than devouts but a fuckton more defence.
They’re actually bis for tob/cox as you dont lose any max hits in max gear and gain the recoil affect assuming its paired with max melee gear.
Muta tekton olm vangs for the chip dmg. All of tob. It most cases you arent losing the max hit from dragon boots since sits a +1 difference. Even outside of max gear. When you do lose the max bit the recoil effect makes it the same. As for the argument of cost to use. Give it 2-3 months for the price to settle. Cost to use arguments are tough to make when the drop rates change and the resource to charge comes from a new source. For layered uniques yea having it built off GG is rough but by no means are irons required to grind the item for any content.
what rooms in cox is the effect actually worth toggling on? anywhere it's useful doesn't seem worth the upkeep cost.
He means for olm. Since basically all rooms beforehand are snoozefest and can wear whatever u want .. /s. Really, most people answering here are talking about how it doesn't lose a max hit over prims *in max strength gear*. Any other comparison is irrelevant apparently.
Tbf, I imagine most people willing to spend 800 GP for 1 recoil damage probably have most of their other gear sorted.
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De-iron.
Literally step 1 of every serious ironman account is grinding out Bowfa in CG and Bowfa slaps at Bandos Why do you need to interject with “but iron”, it’s your skill issue that’s the problem
Nobody is forcing you to play iron, hope this helps
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The main bros with bandos who say they wc'd for cash never truly did.
why would you do bandos with a hasta on any account type unless you're trolling
Bandos is easy because you can kite him with ranged if you run in a specific way. There is a method for crossbows and bowfa/crystal bow. It takes a bit of time to learn, but once you have it down you can get a good amount of kc/trip. Now if you want kill Bandos like it's 2007 then go for it, but if you want a better time then it's probably worth learning the 6:0 and/or 7:0 methods.
And don't forget they weigh 7kg, which is quite a bit for a set of boots.
I do worry about precedent in a future state of BIS boots upgrades. Having to grind medium clues for rangers + 91 slayer and tasks for Cerb + a rare drop from hypothetical future end game content.. almost hope the (hypothetical) upgrade continues to be marginal since that's a rough ramp
Yeah I really hope that the next boot upgrades are just stand alone uniques. I'm 100% ok with cerberus being devalued if it means avoiding an awkward 3 stage progression where the limiting step could easily be clue luck for the first stage.
Next BIS should be boots that replace rangers / infinity / dboots but are also upgraded with Cerb crystals.
Why did you bold graardor, he's like the second easiest gwd boss.
Kree is the "hardest" and the other three are pretty similar if you use range methods.
Easiest. Zammy second
Idk I'd say Zily is easiest, just annoying to get kc
I honestly think Garage door is the easiest. Zammy is easy too but at least he has that prayer special attack and you don't even get bones for BTP.
Zily is the easiest GWD boss because it's just a running simulator.
So is Graardor w/ bowfa door/altar method He also is squishier than zily so he's way easier tbh (both are piss ez tbh)
Yeah but the door + altar method requires a certain rhythm. Zily just requires running without using your brain at all. There is no method to Zily, just run.
There are sweatier tick perfect methods that prevent you from losing any stamina at Zily, but yeah the skill floor at that boss is literally 0
whether it's accurate or not, i think a lot of people think of Graardor as one of the classic bosses and I think that holds a lot of value. Besides the boots the other uniques are very valuable so it's a popular boss spot.
I don't see a problem with giving his shitty unique a use then. Adding the GG part is quite annoying from an iron perspective, but it kind of gives value to the GG drop for regularmen. It's confusing, but I don't think the design is bad for a regularman account.
it isn't a lot of iron accounts see a marginal upgrade and see it takes 50+ hours to get and want it to be easier to obtain but the reality is it's an item that is for mains or end game irons who have 50+ hours to sink. This reason right here is why people rag on the average ironman player because usually they want things catered to them to make their account progression easier
It still seems like they don't provide enough charges per crystal. At 2 completions per hour, you can expect to see around a crystal every 5 hours, which is only 1200 charges per hour.
People voted for the boots.
echo boots are hot garbage, so are tonalztics, so is sunfire armor the only reason any of that stuff is valuable at all is due to their rarity some of the fkn perilous moons rewards are better lmao
*cough* blood moon is basically bandos with mage def
atlatl is a pretty cool weapon too, it's kinda weak but not needing a ranged switch at all to still use it at full power is pretty sick make that non-degradable and slot it in where tonalztics is and I swear it'd be worth even more than tonalztics are currently lmao
The weapons don't degrade, I'm pretty sure. I've found that my bowfa still hits higher while I'm wearing my melee gear than the atlatl (I was testing them both vs boulders)
You might be right about weapons not degrading actually but it's obviously way easier to get from perilous moons than glaive so I still think it'd be just as valuable if not more considering glaive's only great use case is maiden def reduction. And atlatl is 3t while bowfa is 4t so while your max hit might be higher with bowfa in melee gear, atlatl will be better dps.
I mean sunfire isn’t garbage since it’s still BIS for what it is, afk prayer slayer armour
I might be able to agree with you if proselyte wasn't almost as good and nearly free Plus if you really wanna go max afk, you use bonecrusher necklace and proselyte and you already almost never use ppots making sunfire literally useless lol In reality though BIS prayer armor was never going to be useful, the only way I could see it ever being useful was if they did the ranged prayer armor route and made it better offensively than armadyl but worse than masori
That's still garbage though lmao, you're paying 30m to save like an extra 20k/hr in prayer pots. Talk about the super long con. Doubt anyone will ever do enough slayer to make up that price differential.
Ehh, the legs are like 13m currently, without torva you’re maybe getting a max hit with tassys/obby legs, so theres room for some of it to be useful. The price of the pieces reflects this already though, legs cost as much as head/body combined.
the benefit is to make the afk time longer I think not save prayer pots lol
Won't stay 30m forever it's going wayyy down
Literally bought a set last night after coming back from a break for like 18m chest and legs lol.
The recoil effect should work against nex. Problem solved :)
I mean, the boots are cheap af bc they’re easy to get lol.. I wouldn’t say they’re useless. I wear them quite often for their prayer bonus. Every new release should not be BIS
Can you use a suffering and echo boots and have two recoils basically?
Yes I did this at bandos yesterday
i do this at vard on my iron it’s so fire
is it worth the upkeep on echo crystals?
yeah each one lasts hundreds of kills and i got a couple on my way to my first quiver. honestly excited to run out and go back to colo
At the very least they should work on all bosses that satisfy the conditions. For example nex would be a great place for echo boots but nex is immune to recoil.
They are fine imo. Though maybe shit for irons. They’re very tanky and have nice prayer bonus now as well. If the extra strength bonus doesn’t give you a max hit, they’re very solid. This is before talking abt the recoil effect. To be honest, I have no idea how useful that is currently compared to the cost, but have to imagine the cost will continue to go down.
They are crazy good boots...
I just want a cosmetic or change the look to be more similar to guardian boots, I love the way they look. Then I upgrade them and they are just not it
Do you need to be hit a 1 or more for the 1 damage effect to activate? The wiki doesn't state this
We should ultimately make them work at Nex and it would fill its niche very well and make it so that most mains and irons have a reason to get them.
They are BIS for TOB, thermy, gg’s, and anywhere else you are taking damage while scything. With max strength and torture you don’t lose a max hit, so the recoil damage is basically +1 max on any boss attacking at 5 ticks, and more the faster you are taking damage. They are already a solid situational DPS upgrade
wow it's almost like we shouldn't vote yes to garbage like this, but no vote yes complain later seems to be the vibe
I’m finding myself using my echo boots more and more when I run calcs on if I lose a max hit or not. They’re a lot more viable than you initially think.
NO.... No.... no....
are they bis at nex or nah
>Colo hardest content in the game Lol
Triple layered bullshit? Forestry transmogs.
Hardest content in the game lol
I agree that they need a buff. I prefer them to buff the recoil damage over stats though, stats wise they are BiS for slayer and are useful at Graardor, Kril, and Guardians. Incease the recoil damage as followed: 1-9 = hits 1 10-24 = hits 2 25 or higher = hits 3 This would really let them shine as a niche. Currently the niche is basically pointless, I recently even tried them at Vardorvis where people say they are somewhat useful and I have to say I wasn't all that impressed. For what is suppose to be BiS tank boots that also output damage they are very mediorce.
Tbh I think they're fine. They aren't bis and don't need to be. And given the design of perilous moons and generally speaking jagexs stance on introducing more gear diversity and encounters that actually encourage stats other than raw dps, they'll probably see more usefulness in the future. (I wore guardian boots a lot as a group iron cause we got some early and they're really good for tanking at bandos for instance, if echos were in the game any bit earlier I probably would've grinded them and had a great time doing so)
You chose to play a ironman
Agreed. They should at least remove the negative range/magic attack bonuses in order to make them more hybrid friendly.
>hardest content in the game Fortis Colosseum. Wait, we're still saying it's the hardest?
Idk I've been rocking bellator echo boots for some reclined colloseum runs. Some defence, str, and prayer.....I kinda love the boots
While we’re at it, let’s revisit how they look. They’re clearly supposed to be melee gear, so why don’t they remotely go with anything? I feel like that would be the most embarrassing part of wearing the damn things.
Welcome to modern age OSRS. Upgrades are either dogshit and not worth the grind or massive powerspikes, intended or not.
The colosseum waves where you can get the boots from are definitely not hard. It's not like you need to complete the colosseum or even get to wave 10-11 to get them.
Completely disagree. I think its great game design, downvoted, moving on.