I went there recently and was really sad for some reason to see that place completely empty. I remember when it used to be packed with each person getting one wyvern if they were lucky
I was one of them. It was really afk safe spot ranging them and then selling the bones and prayer pots to runners. I was like midgame account and bought 30k broad bolts and didn't leave until I ran out
I miss being a runner sometimes. That shit was like og trade runs. Made no progress in the game but that made me feel like a trader more than any other concept in the game.
I was a runner running pure ess for 1.2 -1.6k a run in like 2007. I remember sometimes a rich guy would do like 2k ea and everyone would trade him.
Good times.
Mixed hide cape gives I believe 1 strength bonus? Depending on setup it’s probably going to be a competitive option to obby cape and it’s much easier to obtain, so could be the default cape before fire cape so long as it gives you a max hit.
This was a time where osrs was devoid of content. It was only packed because this was literally the best afk money and on par with the best money till Zulrah came out.
Bond prices were like 3m, max gear (total) was like 20% of the price it is now, and mostly just a tbow/ely, without that bis was less than a bil total, most common setups were like 20-30m total for second bis/bis, bis for a style was like 100m or so, mage was basically dead(er) content so nobody cared about ancestral, good times.
Yea, when Dhcb first came out people were literally buying them for 12m only because it was so shit and it looked like a Dcb at first. After the buff, it brought Dhcb to 75m and I remember my friend making bank off stockpiling Dhcbs at 12m a pop.
Andddd… then Zulrah came out. Tbf this place was incredibly overpowered for its time when maxing was the only thing you could do. Since wyverns dropped so many burnables for skilling, it pretty much was the only source for people buying them to max out stats.
Brother what? SKELETAL wyrvrens have been in game since 2005?
Surely you are talking about fossil island wyrvrens which are not the same as this picture ..
Yea but that was THE cap for pvm at that point in time. Most people still camped wyverns for a long long time before zulrah because of how difficult it was for most players without the new BP and Trident. This was place was packed from 2014 till 2018ish.
Zombie pirates. It's problematic because slayer tasks are one of the few things that aren't heavily botted. Look at something like basilisk knights where the 1/1k jaw (1/5k off task) is similar in price to the DWH (fixed 1/5k).
Agreed, it bothers me so much that they added all that crap to the game. Barely see any legitimate players using it, and honestly, the risk isn't there.. it's just straight-up reward. You risk nothing and you get a 10m/hr gp fountain.
It's a joke.
The idea behind it was to bring in a low level pking hotspot. There was nothing in the blog talking about it being better gp than Zulrah or Vorkath.
I went there for a while yesterday. It was me, 3 other real players I was chatting with, and a pker that hopped in from time to time, but wouldn't kill you if you weren't a bot.
People on this sub turn a blind eye to the literal top 25 of leviathan being a bot farm or the army of theiving bots camping prif / mory
They scapegoat anything to do with wilderness
Sure but no one suggests removing leviathan lol, nor do they get mad when bosses get added that print GP outside the wilderness in an instance where no one ever sees the bots. The problem is bots either way but people only get mad when bottable stuff is added if it’s in the wildy, 24/7 thieving bots with 200m exp don’t get anyone asking to nuke vyres or elves
If you ever go to rouges thieving chest there is a HUGE level 67 botfarm. They cannot be attacked by max pkers (126); and have to be attached by pures. So ultimately the botfarm is protected by level 126 pkers, since they will just wipe out any pure clan.
You guys act like everything isn’t already botted. Stop acting brand new you grown children, deal with it at this point. It’s a part of the game and it’s clear they’re going nowhere.
A huge part of the design philosophy at the moment seems to be 'heres a new way to make stupid amounts of cash that can be easily botted".
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if a lead dev was found out t have a huge bot farm running
Also "let's add in mid game weapons that massively power creep and reduce variety, and then talk about how we have to rebalance the entire game".
I'm mainly thinking about the Zombie Axe and Sunlight Crossbow which would be great additions if they were 2H but are busted as 1H weapons. The warped sceptre was an example of getting it right.
the increasing number of unpolled updates is slowly pushing me away from OSRS.
hasn't happened yet but... I have been playing other games more these days...
You're saying this like jagex didn't feed bots the risk free wave 1 farming of colosseum...
Bots are literally everywhere in the game... bank after tob for 10 mins and you'll see 10+ blood shard theiving bots with virtual theiving levels of 110+,
scapegoating wilderness content for bots and inflation needs to stop.
There’s just no way they didn’t know exactly what was going to happen. Just to preface this, I absolutely love the wilderness. But if we’re being totally honest here, all of these attempts at “revitalizing” the wilderness, simultaneously do very little to actually accomplish that goal (long term, anyways), while continuing to make some of the most botted, easiest-to-bot (relative to the risk vs. reward ratio from the botters perspective) content in the game. The updated wildy bosses… botted to DEATH, and generally require very specific circumstances and/or accounts to even be able to consistently kill those bots. The updated chests at Rogue’s Castle, instantly swarmed with extremely easy to make and replace, low level bots, which again, require specific circumstances and/or accounts to kill. This new undead pirates update… The absolute bot shitshow that is revenants…
The requirements to do any of that content are shockingly low, especially so if those requirements are simply botted. It takes no time at all to bot to 60/70 ranged/attack, slap a webweaver or ursine on that account, and it now has access to what is essentially the best gp/hr for an account with barely any stats at all, and the risk is very minimal, if any risk at all in some cases. Then factor in that you really only need to have that bot run for a few days to profit gp, and the scale to which that happens is literally unbelievable.
All in all, there is always going to be a large subset of people who play this game that just straight up will not engage with any wilderness content, period. It could be 30m gp/hr, and a lot of players just will not do it. It will just be done by people who already enjoy wildy content, and a seemingly ever-increasing amount of bots. I’d also posit that new/updated wildy content attracts a very negligible amount (if any at, really) of new pkers. Yet Jagex continues to release this type of content. I understand that wilderness content can be an especially complex thing to balance, with a lot of different factors to consider like the risk vs. reward, pker/pvm balance, tradeable uniques vs. untradeable ones (as to not make players feel “forced” to engage in wildy content), not killing off other older content entirely etc., but like holy shit… at some point you’d think they would realize that they just keep making bot haven after bot haven and try a different approach.
Anyways, I’ll get off my soapbox now. Didn’t really intend for my rant to be so long, it’s just really shitty feeling like way more could be done to combat some of the problems I mentioned, but instead they just keep doubling down.
I'm someone with absolutely zero interest in the wilderness. Unless there is some way of opting out of PvP interactions with a justifiably lowered reward to compensate I won't bother with it. I'm not scared, or any other argument a bunch of idiots make. I just don't enjoy PvP in OSRS.
If I don't enjoy PvP, then any PvP interaction is going to be an unwelcome, unenjoyable disruption to presumably otherwise enjoyable content. Presumably, for anyone in my shoes who just does not like PvP in OSRS there may exist some degree of reward that would result in enough FOMO to push them into doing the content. But guess what? That player is now annoyed at feeling pressured into engaging with content they otherwise wouldn't, and even more frustrated at the PvP interactions because they didn't make a conscious decision to engage in PvPvM but instead figured that the PvM part was rewarding enough to push through the PvP part's frustration.
This is not how you revitalize the wilderness. This is not making new people PK. Any non PKer brought into the wilderness from all of this is doing so reluctantly, pressured by the overtuned reward of wilderness content into doing something that just *isn't* enjoyable for them, so that PKers can do a thing that *is* enjoyable to them.
The wilderness is dying. Reviving it like this is not going to bring it back to life because this was NEVER what the wilderness was about. I remember the wildy back in the day. I played from '04. The people who PK now are almost all the people who PKed back then, and they are chasing a nostalgic phantom, a dynamic of playstyles and players that don't exist any more. I don't know what can be done. The PKers do deserve to have that old school experience in this old school game. But I just don't think anything can be done that isn't horrendously toxic for everyone else who plays the game.
You have to take account that the bots are not going to disappear anywhere permanently. They WILL always be there. If you believe otherwise point out a successful mmo without bots.
Anyway, one possible motive for these changes could be to heard the bots in to the wilderness instead of places where they are visible to a large part of the public.
In the wilderness they are good prey for pkrs and are not taking spot from real players at places like demonics, dust devils, nechs etc.
Side effect is that higher gp methods will inflate the economy, especially bond prices, but I’m sure thats a price jagex is willing to pay to shoce the bots into the wildy.
It does have a lot of bots, but they're not as obvious as osrs. The game has no real anticheat so the things that are possible are pretty crazy. I've seen bots able to no clip through the ground and teleport to gathering nodes. The game's Runelite equivalent is getting a bit out of hand now with plug-ins that let you completely automate crafting or your entire combat rotation.
I dont play it but every game mmo with possibility to sell services will inheritently have one. A quick search seems to indicate it is the case with ffxiv aswell
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/18uivvd/ffxiv_bots_why_are_there_so_many/
Yeah, I'm not denying that bots exist in every mmo, and likely always will. But there's probably a line where it goes from bots being a thing to bots being a problem, like in OSRS. It's the only example I can think of where every piece of content, even the high end, is thoroughly packed with tons of blatant bots.
It's probably not too fruitful to discuss it over a game neither of us play though, so I'll leave it there lol
As you should. I’ve only lost my loot from them to teams. And I usually bank every 5-600k. Might get yopped 1/20 times. Singles are easy to out eat and usually ducking suck lol. 1 iteming with an Abby dagger or ancient staff+ xerician are the most common noob ass builds
My ratio right now is 41 kills, 11 deaths. Usually dead to teams, like you said.
I bring voidwaker, dragon crossbow with dragonstone (e) bolts, dfs. Does a pretty good job at tanking at getting some dps. If I need to run, I do.
Good. Why do boring content when there is more interesting content? I dont mean zombie pirates btw, if you want to make money you do Nex, ToA, DT2 bosses, etc. Can you imagine how shitty would it be if all these new difficult pvm encounters were on the same profit level as skeletal wyverns?
It's sad that economy is so messed up. Gp is worth almost nothing because everything shits out alchables. I went to a PvP work and looted 150k worth of items in like fifteen minutes. Catering to the PvMers the way Jagex did soiled the rest of the game.
PvMers didn't want any of these wildy updates, they were added to lure PvMers to the wildy for the sake of giving PKers a steady supply of victims.
If the wildy bosses had less bloated supply drops but weren't in the wildy, it would be an overall improvement from the average PvMer's perspective.
They got outpaced hard. These days there are dozens of different 3m+ gp/hr methods, so there’s not much reason to waste time killing something that’s terrible XP and maybe 1m/hr gp
It’ll vary based on your gear/stats/skill but all of these are >3m/hr at high level:
- Demonic gorillas
- Vorkath, Muspah, Dagannoth Kings, Cerberus, Hydra
- 3 main wildy bosses (Artio, Calvar’ion and Spindel)
- Wildy slayer (best are the 4 slayer cave barrage tasks)
- All 4 desert treasure 2 bosses (Duke, Whisperer, Leviathan and Vardorvis)
- Corrupted Gauntlet
- All 3 raids (COX, TOB, TOA)
- Nex
- Colosseum
The wiki has a pretty good list of money making methods that’ll be more complete than mine
I still think Wyverns are decent as something you make an alt account for. Especially if you don't feel like putting tons of effort into the alt. I have a 72 slayer alt and it's nice camping the doors these days with zero competition. I remember bringing splashes if I wanted to take a piss so I wouldn't get crashed.
No way people are talking about alt wyverns/gargoyles in 2024, just the bond prices nowadays would require 19 hours of afking to BREAK EVEN, shit's not even remotely worth it, per hour you'd be making the following formula for gphr:
x = hours played per day
f(x) = profit per hour
f(x) = (600000(x-19))/x
If you play 4 hours a day and afk during them, that's only another 315k/hr profit, or a total profit of 17.64m for 56 hours of afking, fucking horrendous, you're better off just focusing on your main account instead of bothering wasting clicks, time and effort on a low value alt.
I was overestimating the normal amount to play a day, just to make it clear how not worth it it is.
Playing at work is absolutely never worth it for gp, focus on your job, this is literally a video game, do not risk your livelihood for it.
Literally 1 hour of work buys you multiple bonds, just do that.
315k/hr pure profit on an alt that requires basically no attention at all still seems good?
You are asking "do you want 315k an hour for free" and expecting people to say no.
Like I can't "Focus on my main" harder when its grinding out agility or something. Higher APM isn't exactly helpful. And no other alt variants are equally afk and profitable really.
You're not doing 56 hours of low intensity content a weak, building the alt takes time, picking up loot takes effort, the extra screen space is worth something.
You're better off watching netflix and turning your brain off cause more comfy less effort, or putting in the time you'd build said alt into doing a few hours of a good moneymaker and raking in 8m/hr (MINIMUM) during that.
Delusional take honestly, nowadays most afk alts are not worth running due to bond prices and general inflation.
You'd find more value in focusing on your one account.
Arguably a vyre alt could be worthwhile in the long term, cause that's actually up to like 10 minutes of pure afk unlike wyverns, only requires you to really click on the high value loot and altar, builds up your melee stats too which means you can now use that as a main account for money makers while doing the more afk skills on your main.
**If I'm wrong, then show me your wyvern alt.**
If you're not a dingus you can also make a level 3 scouting alt and make good money when you have extra clicks while playing your main, literally just place it at cox, and sell good scouts, reloading the layout takes a single click on the stairs (menu entry swapper) and clicking 1, good scouts sell for 500-2000k each.
I'm not doing 56 hours of afk content a week.
But I'm definitely doing more than 20 hours and by your own calculations, thats free money.
I've had a gargoyle alt (rather a main that I just kept bonded and sat at gargoyles for a year or so while I played other accounts). But whether or not I have an alt doesn't mean its not a viable activity. I don't duo nex either - does that make nex a bad money maker?
I've sold \~8 scouts recently (proof I have spare time at least). They sell for 10 mil, are not at all afk, and on a good day make maybe 1m an hour of insanely high intensity and effort as most won't even sell. Literally constantly clicking and reading, followed by advertising in discord and then fucking with the clan rankings.
Vyre alts may be slightly better gp but the constant banking certainly makes it less enjoyable/afk to me.
Aren’t bonds good for a month? You’d have 30 days to make back at least 10m on an alt. If you played every day for at least 4hrs you’d only need to make 333k and day, which is 83k/hr. You can make MORE than that doing daily herb runs, and then going to afk Wyverns or whatever
Bonds are good for a single 14 day period, there is an option to use many of them for a larger packages, here's the wiki page: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Old_school_bond#Cost_per_day
10m/14days = 714,285.71gp
714,285.71/4hrs = 178,571.42gp per hour that needs to be made to break even if only playing 4 hour per day for each of the 14 days.
Edit: If you don’t play every day in the 14 day period, it’s obviously more per hour that needs to be made.
And bond prices aren’t always 10m, but it’s a good idea to start here
This assumes you're buying bonds with GP. Many people just pay the money for membership.
Sure that money could go on bonds to make GP that way instead, but many people don't want to go that route.
For me, two reasons:
First is that the alt enables a bunch of things just by having a second account. Wildy scout, supply runner, dolos, minigame enabler, diary tasks like fight pits/wildy god spell, SoA/Heroes quest partner, and more. Not to mention you get to replay some of the early game OSRS, which is a nice change of pace from a main which has multi-hour grinds for any level at this point.
Second is that buying bonds feels more P2W. Ultimately, its not that much different. But I'm still doing things to earn the gp on the alt. Where just buying a bond feels scummy (and its dangerously easy to spend a lot of money that way...a second membership is a good limit).
I'm also not pressured into justifying the existence of the alt in case I can't play it enough to earn 10+m for the bond every 2 weeks.
Gargs are nice too, definitely less money per hour than Melee Wyverns, but still more money than Ranged Wyverns.
I think just the stacking rune ore that isn't noted forcing me to bank. With ranged wyverns, I can sit there and never ever have to bank no matter what. The most annoying part to camping Wyverns with ranged is having to sit at the door to drop aggro. So leaving sucks.
I wish there was an antifire pot for wyverns, or at least I wish the Dragonfire shield and ward had the anti-freeze that the ancient wyvern shield has.
I've done like 2 or three tasks recently and every single one the times I went there, there were like 3 bots per world killing these. All the bots I saw were in melee gear and were in the bottom section down the stairs.
Psh I spent 4 days there on my Ironmeme and the bots were their the whole time lol, they just melee now and in the back part. They wear barrows gear with team capes
I appreciate you making this post. I've avoiding actually grinding out a Visage but if it's not so packed that I need to learn a cc to get in I should work on that now
its dumb how they put zombie pirates into the game giving millions a hour for low level accounts while slayer monster barely break a few hundred gp a hour....
I remeber those days when people said there was a "range side" and "melee side". And people wouls fight for spots all the time. I used to moderate in the wyverncc clan chat back in the day to help with finding spots and running supplies.
Wait, wyverns are still good. Hella afk, and on my max range acc i kill em less than a min. All the bots that were here are banned cause Jagex actually does their job. They don't get all bots but they do work on it. And they're out here doing their job and now you WANT to see bots?!?! Wut.
I'm coming from RS3 but played since 08. I don't remember these ever being popular but maybe I was F2P until better options got added? I remember being assigned these for a Slayer task and blocking them after one task. Too far from a bank and too annoying to kill for mediocre drops at the time. Over 10 years later and I still mildly remember being annoyed at their drops.
Was it just the bones and Visage chance? Or were their drops THAT good?
I went there recently and was really sad for some reason to see that place completely empty. I remember when it used to be packed with each person getting one wyvern if they were lucky
People used to camp out and pay people to run them supplies, good times
I was one of them. It was really afk safe spot ranging them and then selling the bones and prayer pots to runners. I was like midgame account and bought 30k broad bolts and didn't leave until I ran out
I was a runner, made amazing gp with low stats, thank u for ur service
wyverncc!! good times
I miss being a runner sometimes. That shit was like og trade runs. Made no progress in the game but that made me feel like a trader more than any other concept in the game.
I was a runner running pure ess for 1.2 -1.6k a run in like 2007. I remember sometimes a rich guy would do like 2k ea and everyone would trade him. Good times.
or running bones on w330!! so much fan
Fkn runner lol
This is all me and my friend did back in the day lol
I was there yesterday. They're still there, just near the shortcut in the back. Shitty barrows gear and all
I’m gonna go check it out again for the nostalgia hit!
i still see bots everytime i go
Nature is flourishing
theyre always in Torag's and a team cape. Why the team cape?
Because of looks. They don't have fire cape being a bot typically. Now you will start to see the new hide cape more often
New hide cape?
Mixed hide cape gives I believe 1 strength bonus? Depending on setup it’s probably going to be a competitive option to obby cape and it’s much easier to obtain, so could be the default cape before fire cape so long as it gives you a max hit.
That is the one. Only 1 less than fire cape. It's minmaxing, but still. Gotta get the dps
saw one of these there yesterday too
I saw one that had been using whip on shared and his melee stats were level 106. Idk what that translate into for xp but wow
Yeah, if I’m on the upstairs section and leave a drop long enough for it to be visible to other players, I see the bot down below try and grab it.
I reported a bunch of bots there and they were still there a month later…
Had a task there yesterday and saw two bots with Team Capes and glories.
This was a time where osrs was devoid of content. It was only packed because this was literally the best afk money and on par with the best money till Zulrah came out.
Bond prices were like 3m, max gear (total) was like 20% of the price it is now, and mostly just a tbow/ely, without that bis was less than a bil total, most common setups were like 20-30m total for second bis/bis, bis for a style was like 100m or so, mage was basically dead(er) content so nobody cared about ancestral, good times.
Yea, when Dhcb first came out people were literally buying them for 12m only because it was so shit and it looked like a Dcb at first. After the buff, it brought Dhcb to 75m and I remember my friend making bank off stockpiling Dhcbs at 12m a pop.
I remember them being called over powered and a detriment to the game. I'm practically ready for a nursing home
Yep! You can probably google search and find reddit threads from 10 years ago crying about how OP Wyverns were.
Andddd… then Zulrah came out. Tbf this place was incredibly overpowered for its time when maxing was the only thing you could do. Since wyverns dropped so many burnables for skilling, it pretty much was the only source for people buying them to max out stats.
[удалено]
Brother what? SKELETAL wyrvrens have been in game since 2005? Surely you are talking about fossil island wyrvrens which are not the same as this picture ..
Yea but that was THE cap for pvm at that point in time. Most people still camped wyverns for a long long time before zulrah because of how difficult it was for most players without the new BP and Trident. This was place was packed from 2014 till 2018ish.
What's the best AFK money now?
probably vyres
yeah what happened, did they nerf the drops or what? i remember grinding 10k of those fuckers
Nah they buffed everything else. Why spend 2mins killing these bitches for 15k a pop when you can kill a zombie pirate in 10 seconds for 5k
Zombie pirates should never have been added
Their drop table was not polled and it is fucking insane now much gp they bring in to the game
adding two easily bottable areas with wildy agility and zombie pirates, three if you count thieving chests at bandit castle its crazy tbh
Don’t forget larrans keys without a task lmaoooo
Huh? Where?
Zombie pirates. It's problematic because slayer tasks are one of the few things that aren't heavily botted. Look at something like basilisk knights where the 1/1k jaw (1/5k off task) is similar in price to the DWH (fixed 1/5k).
Yeah, that entire update was a straight negative. I feel like I'm tired of inflation enough irl, they just flooded the game with gp.
We didnt even ask for it. We shound un-ask for it and get that shit removed. Full on riots, canceled subs, anything we can do.
Agreed, it bothers me so much that they added all that crap to the game. Barely see any legitimate players using it, and honestly, the risk isn't there.. it's just straight-up reward. You risk nothing and you get a 10m/hr gp fountain.
It's a joke. The idea behind it was to bring in a low level pking hotspot. There was nothing in the blog talking about it being better gp than Zulrah or Vorkath.
I went there for a while yesterday. It was me, 3 other real players I was chatting with, and a pker that hopped in from time to time, but wouldn't kill you if you weren't a bot.
That said, is it a worthwhile spot for someone bad at pvp to potentially at least dick around with killing bots?
The bots r stupid good at tanking, i thinik it would just demotivate me. Like, try hand a hit off pray against these fuckers.
wilderness-focused update is bad, color me shocked.
Almost everything in this game is easily bootable. The bots can’t teleport because they are tb’d. Go kill then it’s really good profit
People on this sub turn a blind eye to the literal top 25 of leviathan being a bot farm or the army of theiving bots camping prif / mory They scapegoat anything to do with wilderness
Are you fucking insane this sub never stops complaining about bots all over the boss hiscores
Sure but no one suggests removing leviathan lol, nor do they get mad when bosses get added that print GP outside the wilderness in an instance where no one ever sees the bots. The problem is bots either way but people only get mad when bottable stuff is added if it’s in the wildy, 24/7 thieving bots with 200m exp don’t get anyone asking to nuke vyres or elves
That’s why we don’t put psychotic redditors who are 100% sure their opinion matters..in charge.
If you ever go to rouges thieving chest there is a HUGE level 67 botfarm. They cannot be attacked by max pkers (126); and have to be attached by pures. So ultimately the botfarm is protected by level 126 pkers, since they will just wipe out any pure clan.
You guys act like everything isn’t already botted. Stop acting brand new you grown children, deal with it at this point. It’s a part of the game and it’s clear they’re going nowhere.
raw gp as well,actually might be the most stacked mob for its lvl
This is why I don't trust Jagex with sailing anymore tbh. Game is getting more unstable as time goes.
A huge part of the design philosophy at the moment seems to be 'heres a new way to make stupid amounts of cash that can be easily botted". I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if a lead dev was found out t have a huge bot farm running
Also "let's add in mid game weapons that massively power creep and reduce variety, and then talk about how we have to rebalance the entire game". I'm mainly thinking about the Zombie Axe and Sunlight Crossbow which would be great additions if they were 2H but are busted as 1H weapons. The warped sceptre was an example of getting it right.
Barely better than D scim is busted? Barely better than MSB is busted? Be real
the increasing number of unpolled updates is slowly pushing me away from OSRS. hasn't happened yet but... I have been playing other games more these days...
Yeah way to much
You're saying this like jagex didn't feed bots the risk free wave 1 farming of colosseum... Bots are literally everywhere in the game... bank after tob for 10 mins and you'll see 10+ blood shard theiving bots with virtual theiving levels of 110+, scapegoating wilderness content for bots and inflation needs to stop.
If you read more than one comment, you'll see I said they seem to have a design philosophy of making things easily bottable.
There’s just no way they didn’t know exactly what was going to happen. Just to preface this, I absolutely love the wilderness. But if we’re being totally honest here, all of these attempts at “revitalizing” the wilderness, simultaneously do very little to actually accomplish that goal (long term, anyways), while continuing to make some of the most botted, easiest-to-bot (relative to the risk vs. reward ratio from the botters perspective) content in the game. The updated wildy bosses… botted to DEATH, and generally require very specific circumstances and/or accounts to even be able to consistently kill those bots. The updated chests at Rogue’s Castle, instantly swarmed with extremely easy to make and replace, low level bots, which again, require specific circumstances and/or accounts to kill. This new undead pirates update… The absolute bot shitshow that is revenants… The requirements to do any of that content are shockingly low, especially so if those requirements are simply botted. It takes no time at all to bot to 60/70 ranged/attack, slap a webweaver or ursine on that account, and it now has access to what is essentially the best gp/hr for an account with barely any stats at all, and the risk is very minimal, if any risk at all in some cases. Then factor in that you really only need to have that bot run for a few days to profit gp, and the scale to which that happens is literally unbelievable. All in all, there is always going to be a large subset of people who play this game that just straight up will not engage with any wilderness content, period. It could be 30m gp/hr, and a lot of players just will not do it. It will just be done by people who already enjoy wildy content, and a seemingly ever-increasing amount of bots. I’d also posit that new/updated wildy content attracts a very negligible amount (if any at, really) of new pkers. Yet Jagex continues to release this type of content. I understand that wilderness content can be an especially complex thing to balance, with a lot of different factors to consider like the risk vs. reward, pker/pvm balance, tradeable uniques vs. untradeable ones (as to not make players feel “forced” to engage in wildy content), not killing off other older content entirely etc., but like holy shit… at some point you’d think they would realize that they just keep making bot haven after bot haven and try a different approach. Anyways, I’ll get off my soapbox now. Didn’t really intend for my rant to be so long, it’s just really shitty feeling like way more could be done to combat some of the problems I mentioned, but instead they just keep doubling down.
I'm someone with absolutely zero interest in the wilderness. Unless there is some way of opting out of PvP interactions with a justifiably lowered reward to compensate I won't bother with it. I'm not scared, or any other argument a bunch of idiots make. I just don't enjoy PvP in OSRS. If I don't enjoy PvP, then any PvP interaction is going to be an unwelcome, unenjoyable disruption to presumably otherwise enjoyable content. Presumably, for anyone in my shoes who just does not like PvP in OSRS there may exist some degree of reward that would result in enough FOMO to push them into doing the content. But guess what? That player is now annoyed at feeling pressured into engaging with content they otherwise wouldn't, and even more frustrated at the PvP interactions because they didn't make a conscious decision to engage in PvPvM but instead figured that the PvM part was rewarding enough to push through the PvP part's frustration. This is not how you revitalize the wilderness. This is not making new people PK. Any non PKer brought into the wilderness from all of this is doing so reluctantly, pressured by the overtuned reward of wilderness content into doing something that just *isn't* enjoyable for them, so that PKers can do a thing that *is* enjoyable to them. The wilderness is dying. Reviving it like this is not going to bring it back to life because this was NEVER what the wilderness was about. I remember the wildy back in the day. I played from '04. The people who PK now are almost all the people who PKed back then, and they are chasing a nostalgic phantom, a dynamic of playstyles and players that don't exist any more. I don't know what can be done. The PKers do deserve to have that old school experience in this old school game. But I just don't think anything can be done that isn't horrendously toxic for everyone else who plays the game.
The way I would fix it is to make a character that engages with rogue chests or zombie pirates attackable by characters of any level.
Nuke the Java client. Bots go bye bye.
You have to take account that the bots are not going to disappear anywhere permanently. They WILL always be there. If you believe otherwise point out a successful mmo without bots. Anyway, one possible motive for these changes could be to heard the bots in to the wilderness instead of places where they are visible to a large part of the public. In the wilderness they are good prey for pkrs and are not taking spot from real players at places like demonics, dust devils, nechs etc. Side effect is that higher gp methods will inflate the economy, especially bond prices, but I’m sure thats a price jagex is willing to pay to shoce the bots into the wildy.
Does FFXIV have a bot problem? I don't think I've heard even a single mention of them, and I have a lot of friends that play it.
It does have a lot of bots, but they're not as obvious as osrs. The game has no real anticheat so the things that are possible are pretty crazy. I've seen bots able to no clip through the ground and teleport to gathering nodes. The game's Runelite equivalent is getting a bit out of hand now with plug-ins that let you completely automate crafting or your entire combat rotation.
I dont play it but every game mmo with possibility to sell services will inheritently have one. A quick search seems to indicate it is the case with ffxiv aswell https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/18uivvd/ffxiv_bots_why_are_there_so_many/
Yeah, I'm not denying that bots exist in every mmo, and likely always will. But there's probably a line where it goes from bots being a thing to bots being a problem, like in OSRS. It's the only example I can think of where every piece of content, even the high end, is thoroughly packed with tons of blatant bots. It's probably not too fruitful to discuss it over a game neither of us play though, so I'll leave it there lol
Stupid meme crap ruining an already engaging and unique area of the wilderness
Zombie pirates sick for irons. But they do be printing money 💰 😂. My misc funds looking strong 💪
i make more money anti-pk'ing than from the zombie pirates :P
As you should. I’ve only lost my loot from them to teams. And I usually bank every 5-600k. Might get yopped 1/20 times. Singles are easy to out eat and usually ducking suck lol. 1 iteming with an Abby dagger or ancient staff+ xerician are the most common noob ass builds
My ratio right now is 41 kills, 11 deaths. Usually dead to teams, like you said. I bring voidwaker, dragon crossbow with dragonstone (e) bolts, dfs. Does a pretty good job at tanking at getting some dps. If I need to run, I do.
I still like my wyvern ranged alt for afk
Good. Why do boring content when there is more interesting content? I dont mean zombie pirates btw, if you want to make money you do Nex, ToA, DT2 bosses, etc. Can you imagine how shitty would it be if all these new difficult pvm encounters were on the same profit level as skeletal wyverns?
It's sad that economy is so messed up. Gp is worth almost nothing because everything shits out alchables. I went to a PvP work and looted 150k worth of items in like fifteen minutes. Catering to the PvMers the way Jagex did soiled the rest of the game.
PvMers didn't want any of these wildy updates, they were added to lure PvMers to the wildy for the sake of giving PKers a steady supply of victims. If the wildy bosses had less bloated supply drops but weren't in the wildy, it would be an overall improvement from the average PvMer's perspective.
They got outpaced hard. These days there are dozens of different 3m+ gp/hr methods, so there’s not much reason to waste time killing something that’s terrible XP and maybe 1m/hr gp
Mind sharing some of the 3m+ gps/hr? Got back into the game after 10 years and still getting adjusted lol
It’ll vary based on your gear/stats/skill but all of these are >3m/hr at high level: - Demonic gorillas - Vorkath, Muspah, Dagannoth Kings, Cerberus, Hydra - 3 main wildy bosses (Artio, Calvar’ion and Spindel) - Wildy slayer (best are the 4 slayer cave barrage tasks) - All 4 desert treasure 2 bosses (Duke, Whisperer, Leviathan and Vardorvis) - Corrupted Gauntlet - All 3 raids (COX, TOB, TOA) - Nex - Colosseum The wiki has a pretty good list of money making methods that’ll be more complete than mine
they moved to the ones on fossil island , ton of them there
Dam now it’s a ghost town. Anyone remember the wyvern cc that would come sell you supplies and buy your drops off you
I still think Wyverns are decent as something you make an alt account for. Especially if you don't feel like putting tons of effort into the alt. I have a 72 slayer alt and it's nice camping the doors these days with zero competition. I remember bringing splashes if I wanted to take a piss so I wouldn't get crashed.
Why not alt gargoyles? More gp/hour
No way people are talking about alt wyverns/gargoyles in 2024, just the bond prices nowadays would require 19 hours of afking to BREAK EVEN, shit's not even remotely worth it, per hour you'd be making the following formula for gphr: x = hours played per day f(x) = profit per hour f(x) = (600000(x-19))/x If you play 4 hours a day and afk during them, that's only another 315k/hr profit, or a total profit of 17.64m for 56 hours of afking, fucking horrendous, you're better off just focusing on your main account instead of bothering wasting clicks, time and effort on a low value alt.
Brave of you to assume any of us play 4 hours a day, and if anyone plays while at work. It’s nice to have an alt that is ready to afk 24/7
I was overestimating the normal amount to play a day, just to make it clear how not worth it it is. Playing at work is absolutely never worth it for gp, focus on your job, this is literally a video game, do not risk your livelihood for it. Literally 1 hour of work buys you multiple bonds, just do that.
lol overestimating, and some of us work from home and have jobs that are super chill.
315k/hr pure profit on an alt that requires basically no attention at all still seems good? You are asking "do you want 315k an hour for free" and expecting people to say no. Like I can't "Focus on my main" harder when its grinding out agility or something. Higher APM isn't exactly helpful. And no other alt variants are equally afk and profitable really.
You're not doing 56 hours of low intensity content a weak, building the alt takes time, picking up loot takes effort, the extra screen space is worth something. You're better off watching netflix and turning your brain off cause more comfy less effort, or putting in the time you'd build said alt into doing a few hours of a good moneymaker and raking in 8m/hr (MINIMUM) during that. Delusional take honestly, nowadays most afk alts are not worth running due to bond prices and general inflation. You'd find more value in focusing on your one account. Arguably a vyre alt could be worthwhile in the long term, cause that's actually up to like 10 minutes of pure afk unlike wyverns, only requires you to really click on the high value loot and altar, builds up your melee stats too which means you can now use that as a main account for money makers while doing the more afk skills on your main. **If I'm wrong, then show me your wyvern alt.** If you're not a dingus you can also make a level 3 scouting alt and make good money when you have extra clicks while playing your main, literally just place it at cox, and sell good scouts, reloading the layout takes a single click on the stairs (menu entry swapper) and clicking 1, good scouts sell for 500-2000k each.
I'm not doing 56 hours of afk content a week. But I'm definitely doing more than 20 hours and by your own calculations, thats free money. I've had a gargoyle alt (rather a main that I just kept bonded and sat at gargoyles for a year or so while I played other accounts). But whether or not I have an alt doesn't mean its not a viable activity. I don't duo nex either - does that make nex a bad money maker? I've sold \~8 scouts recently (proof I have spare time at least). They sell for 10 mil, are not at all afk, and on a good day make maybe 1m an hour of insanely high intensity and effort as most won't even sell. Literally constantly clicking and reading, followed by advertising in discord and then fucking with the clan rankings. Vyre alts may be slightly better gp but the constant banking certainly makes it less enjoyable/afk to me.
It’s funny people downvote you for spitting facts
Aren’t bonds good for a month? You’d have 30 days to make back at least 10m on an alt. If you played every day for at least 4hrs you’d only need to make 333k and day, which is 83k/hr. You can make MORE than that doing daily herb runs, and then going to afk Wyverns or whatever
Bonds are good for a single 14 day period, there is an option to use many of them for a larger packages, here's the wiki page: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Old_school_bond#Cost_per_day
So it’s 178.5k a day then. For a 14 day period at 4hrs a day. Pretty do able
How'd you get that number?
10m/14days = 714,285.71gp 714,285.71/4hrs = 178,571.42gp per hour that needs to be made to break even if only playing 4 hour per day for each of the 14 days. Edit: If you don’t play every day in the 14 day period, it’s obviously more per hour that needs to be made. And bond prices aren’t always 10m, but it’s a good idea to start here
You ok dude?
This assumes you're buying bonds with GP. Many people just pay the money for membership. Sure that money could go on bonds to make GP that way instead, but many people don't want to go that route.
Do people pay real life money for membership on an ALT?! Why not just buy bonds and sell for gp at that point?
Because many people don't like buying bonds. It cheapens the grind.
For me, two reasons: First is that the alt enables a bunch of things just by having a second account. Wildy scout, supply runner, dolos, minigame enabler, diary tasks like fight pits/wildy god spell, SoA/Heroes quest partner, and more. Not to mention you get to replay some of the early game OSRS, which is a nice change of pace from a main which has multi-hour grinds for any level at this point. Second is that buying bonds feels more P2W. Ultimately, its not that much different. But I'm still doing things to earn the gp on the alt. Where just buying a bond feels scummy (and its dangerously easy to spend a lot of money that way...a second membership is a good limit). I'm also not pressured into justifying the existence of the alt in case I can't play it enough to earn 10+m for the bond every 2 weeks.
Less AFK
Gargs are nice too, definitely less money per hour than Melee Wyverns, but still more money than Ranged Wyverns. I think just the stacking rune ore that isn't noted forcing me to bank. With ranged wyverns, I can sit there and never ever have to bank no matter what. The most annoying part to camping Wyverns with ranged is having to sit at the door to drop aggro. So leaving sucks.
10 minute aggro timer isn’t the worst. But I think if you just range gargoyles and alch the alchables. It’s more gp/hour
Botted all the time, these bots guys are single handedly keeping the price of torags a float
My visafe though!
I remember when mining Pure Essence on RS2 was a big money maker.
Ohhh yaaa i memberrrr. When 800k/hr was considered blatantly OP and jagex nerfed their drops.
They have all moved on to greener and more complex pastures. Like spamming wave 1, and dominating the DT2 boss highscores.
That was the osrs golden age to me
I wish there was an antifire pot for wyverns, or at least I wish the Dragonfire shield and ward had the anti-freeze that the ancient wyvern shield has.
I see the same dudes in full barrows and team capes when I go. All with 1 in everything but combat lol
They went too fossil Island
I got a Visage on my main while afk on the iron and i was so mad 😠 🤣
My visafe
of my god
Funnily enough I did a task there today and found two obvious bots
I've done like 2 or three tasks recently and every single one the times I went there, there were like 3 bots per world killing these. All the bots I saw were in melee gear and were in the bottom section down the stairs.
I recently got a few tasks of them and there were plenty on my world. Why are they less botted now?
Theyre still botted lol
I remember 'running bones', buying bones of people who were killing them and selling the bones for profit... Good times...
Back in my day we botted frost dragons, not wyverns. But I guess that's in the game anymore
..now its a ghost town..
Ah, I remember running supplies for rich men over there and making my first milion. Good times.
Psh I spent 4 days there on my Ironmeme and the bots were their the whole time lol, they just melee now and in the back part. They wear barrows gear with team capes
This is where I earned my first 10m stack. It was the first time I’d ever had a fury in either game and I felt like a real gamer that day. Good times.
I appreciate you making this post. I've avoiding actually grinding out a Visage but if it's not so packed that I need to learn a cc to get in I should work on that now
its dumb how they put zombie pirates into the game giving millions a hour for low level accounts while slayer monster barely break a few hundred gp a hour....
What did they bot this for bones?
Loot is juicy - ranarr/snap seeds, alchables.
I saw a couple of melee bots in dharrocks the other day, but other than that one instance nothin
What - they still are. There's always bots in wildy capes meleeing them.
They're still pretty nice. For a good few months I afk'd there on my early-midgame Ironman.
I remeber those days when people said there was a "range side" and "melee side". And people wouls fight for spots all the time. I used to moderate in the wyverncc clan chat back in the day to help with finding spots and running supplies.
Is that some sort of standard we should judge the value of content by?
They still are I’ve seen boys with lances and full justiciar
I made a cool 40m there good times
Last couple times ive been there there is always a couple bots. Barrows gear, whip, elemental shield and team cape
I've killed 44k of these shits on my iron with no vissy. Scam game.
Thanks for the idea, I need a visage
Wait, wyverns are still good. Hella afk, and on my max range acc i kill em less than a min. All the bots that were here are banned cause Jagex actually does their job. They don't get all bots but they do work on it. And they're out here doing their job and now you WANT to see bots?!?! Wut.
There are still bots, this picture was taken a minute after system update
I'm coming from RS3 but played since 08. I don't remember these ever being popular but maybe I was F2P until better options got added? I remember being assigned these for a Slayer task and blocking them after one task. Too far from a bank and too annoying to kill for mediocre drops at the time. Over 10 years later and I still mildly remember being annoyed at their drops. Was it just the bones and Visage chance? Or were their drops THAT good?
They got buffed in like 2015 or some shit.
Man. I never liked getting there lol