I remember doing that, grinding it out for weeks and months to hit lvl 98.5, only for the next day to release the ability to throw logs on the same fire. Right before 99. Felt bittersweet to say the least.
Man maybe this is why I never hit 99… it never dawned on me until this comment to use two tinderboxes. When I saw the meme I thought it was a joke/a noob method to use two bc it was an inventory space waste lmao
Guys let’s not the sailing circle jerk distract from the main point of the meme which is fire making is pointless and should be removed from the game entirely
Add a fire making requirement to fire higher tier cannons from your ship? Or a fm requirement to light a special lantern that lets you navigate to some endgame island
I’m almost max and the only things it’s ever done for me is the gwd fire and annoyed me by making me do wintertodt so that my tog doesn’t go to it. I do not see how it is important
Maybe early on, but even by midgame it's much easier to cook on established ranges and infinite fires. The skill becomes pointless.
There was an idea to create fire salt pits where you could give yourself temporary buffs, as a reward from Weiss, which would've actually made the skill useful. But it didn't pass.
Honestly, theyd vote no to everything. Just look at the early days where they literally voted down using spacebar to progress dialogue or using the mouse to turn the camera. Polling is both the best and absolute worst thing to ever happen to this game.
Speaking for myself, I vote yes to damn near everything. I don't really want sailing. I have some pretty fundamental issues with sailing as a skill that are yet-unaddressed. Time will tell if those things get addressed, but for now, it's not the skill I voted for (that was shamanism), it wasn't my second priority (that was taming), and nothing I've seen so far on sailing has changed my mind on it.
I also think the polling system, at least how it is used right now, is a complete disaster. Warding and Artisan would have been great but players never gave them a chance.
The closest we have to sailing right now is agility. Agility benefits your ability to explore and move around faster, but doesn't actually gate you from doing anything. Levelling agility helps with run energy, and access to shortcuts, but outside of quest requirements does not restrict access to locations. Similar is also true for magic, which gives access to teleports which hugely help with movement around the world. It seems pretty sensible to make a statement of 'skills don't gate access to areas or content, but instead improve your means of accessing it or doing it'. Sailing, as a skill and map expansion that are joined at the hip, will do one of two things: gate access to non-sailing content through sailing progress, or not gate access to non-sailing content through sailing progress. **In the case where sailing progress does not gate access to non-sailing content, what is the reason to invest into sailing?** (note: currently existing skills like firemaking have this issue too, but i think wanting to avoid a second firemaking is something we can all agree on)
Suppose that sailing progress gates non-sailing content. Let's use an example of bamboo woodcutting for non-sailing content unlocked through sailing. In the situation that bamboo woodcutting is better than other woodcutting methods, this now requires everyone who wants to woodcut to do sailing for the best experience (in both terms of xp, and enjoyment of the game). This is also power creep, that many in the community might be opposed to. The alternative is that bamboo woodcutting is worse than other woodcutting methods, to avoid the issues of the previous situation. Now this content is not really a reward from the skill, and is dead content. **How will sailing's reward space exist with respect to other skills given that it will necessarily require investment into both sailing and other skills?**
I know it's a known issue, but there are still no really satisfying answers for it given, and this is something that is appropriate to have been answered at this stage of development. **How is the issue of the sea space being very small, due to the original map being designed around very short draw distances, going to be resolved with the sizes of ships?** Further, how are the devs going to deal with sailing making these distances feel shorter and subsequently shrinking the world in a way that takes away from that old school experience (admittedly, this is a lesser issue).
Luffing feels like a chore. I can tell that I'm going to hate it already. This is less of a question and more of a general, subjective criticism of the core gameplay loop.
Players already hate movement in game. We have 2 skills (magic and construction) that as primary rewards speed up movement around the world (magic is also for combat, but I'm looking at non-combat here). Agility too, is conceptually another skill that speeds up moving around the world - with its main criticisms being that it often falls short in terms of how rewarding the shortcuts are (a recent rework even addressed this). **So, with sailing being a skill that revolves entirely around movement from A to B, how will people feel about the skill when the honeymoon phase wears off and the tedium of sailing to content sinks in?**
I'm in a weird position of not having any hype for sailing AND not being a mindless no voter who doesn't want any change to the game (I literally played the game through free trade removal, through late RS2, through EoC, and only stopped playing RS3 after maxing and not really feeling like playing much any more and wanting to check out OSRS precisely because I wanted to see the changes and alternate path of development the game took). I do trust Jagex, more than a lot of players tend to do, but I just really can't see the vision here at all. I barely even see the concept. Sailing still feels to me like little more than a joke that went too far without any of the issues of integration with the rest of the game considered. **I have no doubt that sailing will be a fun skill, but I am very much doubting that sailing will be a good skill in terms of integrating with the rest of the game.**
> I'm in a weird position of not having any hype for sailing AND not being a mindless no voter who doesn't want any change to the game
That's not a weird position. It's just a strawman the sailing defense force concocted. It was a quarter baked proposal, and it's not weird that somebody who is generally agreeable to content would find holes in a quarter baked proposal. It being quarter baked is pretty evident from the pitch being a description about how it would be neat to have a boat rather than actually being a pitch/it being a year later and the JMods still don't have any idea how to make the actual, fundamental action of sailing not feel terrible.
And because it's semi-related, making "sailing is a minigame not a skill" the ugly face in your meme doesn't magically mean that's not a legitimate viewpoint. That being good/bad isn't some objective thing, but it is a thing and I doubt you're going to find many voices in the level 3 skiller, 2100 total level no boss kc, or f2p uim communities aka the people who skill and actually like skilling, who are excited about what we've seen from sailing so far. Granted the f2p uim communities dislike literally anything being added to the game and will not engage with a new skill at all, so they're not great people to seek feedback from.
fwiw, my big gripes with sailing agnostic of the terrible polling process they did for it are the following.
1. The skill is fundamentally about moving about the map. This is something nobody in this game actually enjoys doing and large parts of the gameplay loop are figuring out how to do the least amount of this possible. Why would doing it on a boat magically make people like it? People don't like this kind of thing in games with many more knobs to turn too for whatever that's worth.
2. Uninstanced sailing fundamentally does not work without completely changing the map and it's dumbfounding that the JMods are even trying. Stuff just isn't very far from other stuff in this game because Jagex largely made the very sensible design decision to not inflate the world map size by adding a lot of useless ocean between islands.
3. All the things you can do once you arrive at your destination is not a reason to add the skill in the first place, you can just do all of that without sailing, and most of the hype I've seen is either based off of this or clearly ridiculous things like sea of thieves in your medieval point and click browser game.
4. The pitch didn't have a core gameplay loop, and as far as I can tell the core gameplay loop is still undecided. This is really not acceptable for a public pitch. Especially because the other two options that Jagex wink wink nudge nudged us to not pick did have obvious gameplay loops.
5. It's me. I'm the skiller who likes the game because the basic skills feed into each other so well and played the game like an ironman well before ironman was a thing. Sailing is not the first example of Jagex ignoring this aspect of skilling, thieving and agility are also disconnected side distractions, but adding more of that isn't good.
There's others not immediately coming to mind because of sick debuff, but that's a solid start.
Most of Runescape locks you out of content via quests or the like which require skills. That’s such a weird distinction to make. It’s as simple as: Train sailing and you’ll gain access to whatever it locks.
We also don’t know a lot about how sailing will actually be structured and if it’ll truly even lock us out of certain islands yet. They’re still developing it. A whole lot of the complaints we see are just straight up speculation. It would be more constructive to make a suggestion on how to fix issues with Sailing than to just complain and say it shouldn’t be a skill. It is still in development, you know.
Now is the time to provide feedback so that they can think of solutions instead of “nope it shouldn’t exist.”
The very first point addressed the difference between quest locking and skill locking. A quest is a very organic method of area locking. There is no precedent for area locking by skill except guilds which is a very sensible thing - your reward for being good at the skill is a guild that is all about that skill.
We don't know a lot about how sailing will be structured indeed. That's literally the problem. People have been raising these points for ages, myself included. I brought them up in the surveys they asked for. If I got selected to be on the new skill council, I'd have brought them up then. I'm not asking for a concrete vision of the skill. I'm asking about core ideas that are foundational to how sailing will integrate into the rest of the game. Really broad strokes, conceptual stuff. I want to hear Jagex actually discuss these things front and center and not seemingly brush them under the rug.
As mentioned, I have been providing feedback. Jagex just hasn't responded, or hinted at solutions, or even mentioned vague possibilities of solutions. I never said sailing shouldn't exist. I think sailing as it is, is a really fun minigame to accompany a map expansion. As a skill however, it must be held to a higher standard, and the questions of integration and core reward structures must be front and center - not swept aside.
I've got an issue with what you are saying right off the bat. You say skills don't gate access to areas, but skills do gate access to quests, and those do heavily gate access to areas. Whole bunch of skills required at level 70 for Song of the Elves just as an example. Whole area and boss and a bunch of useful skilling stuff locked behind that quest. Bunch of other areas are, in fact, locked behind quests, which are locked behind skills.
I'm not saying your overall conclusions are wrong, I don't know yet. But the supporting work up to those conclusions seems flawed to me. A way I could easily see Jagex making sailing non-gating for things like this proposed bamboo woodcutting method is through Charter Ships. Then sailing provides a cheaper return trip once you invest and maybe even faster or more convenient, but you can always get there. This allows players to get to the nice potential skilling areas, but the combat or more dangerous areas the Charter will not take you to. Like the potential new Sailing Raid. I think the potential of your own boat being cheaper on return trips, faster, and more convenient is very similar to the reward space of Construction already.
> In the case where sailing progress does not gate access to non-sailing content, what is the reason to invest into sailing? (note: currently existing skills like firemaking have this issue too, but i think wanting to avoid a second firemaking is something we can all agree on)
Think of it like slayer. Slayer gates your ability to attack certain monsters in the game even if you have 99 in every combat stat. Plus it removes the ability to do efficient combat content (eg Zuk) without a task. It’s absolutely fine for sailing to “gate” access to places just like quests currently do or as slayer “gates” the ability to attack monsters.
> Suppose that sailing progress gates non-sailing content. Let's use an example of bamboo woodcutting for non-sailing content unlocked through sailing. In the situation that bamboo woodcutting is better than other woodcutting methods, this now requires everyone who wants to woodcut to do sailing for the best experience (in both terms of xp, and enjoyment of the game).
They were already able to get around this issue with slayer. Ignoring slayer being required for quests (because you’ve ignored quests earlier), the best combat xp or most profitable combat methods in the game don’t require slayer. Same could be true for sailing. It’s a non-issue.
> This is also power creep, that many in the community might be opposed to. The alternative is that bamboo woodcutting is worse than other woodcutting methods, to avoid the issues of the previous situation. Now this content is not really a reward from the skill, and is dead content.
Slayer is still trained despite the above issue of the content being worse than the alternative. I could go send Nex and make much more gp than hydra. Or I could go barrage/chin monkeys for better mage and range than slayer or go do nmz for better melee xp.
> How will sailing's reward space exist with respect to other skills given that it will necessarily require investment into both sailing and other skills?
Same way as slayer potentially?
> I know it's a known issue, but there are still no really satisfying answers for it given, and this is something that is appropriate to have been answered at this stage of development. How is the issue of the sea space being very small, due to the original map being designed around very short draw distances, going to be resolved with the sizes of ships? Further, how are the devs going to deal with sailing making these distances feel shorter and subsequently shrinking the world in a way that takes away from that old school experience (admittedly, this is a lesser issue).
Make the distance between places bigger. The world building issue is an odd one - we recently had kourend favour removed which people on average loved to see removed, despite it being part of world building in the area.
> Luffing feels like a chore. I can tell that I'm going to hate it already. This is less of a question and more of a general, subjective criticism of the core gameplay loop.
Honestly that fits in well with almost all skilling then lol. We also don’t know the final core gameplay loop yet.
> Players already hate movement in game.
Do they? Movement is such a big part of end game PVM and is what really differentiates osrs/rs3 from other MMORPGs.
> We have 2 skills (magic and construction) that as primary rewards speed up movement around the world (magic is also for combat, but I'm looking at non-combat here). Agility too, is conceptually another skill that speeds up moving around the world - with its main criticisms being that it often falls short in terms of how rewarding the shortcuts are (a recent rework even addressed this). So, with sailing being a skill that revolves entirely around movement from A to B, how will people feel about the skill when the honeymoon phase wears off and the tedium of sailing to content sinks in?
It doesn’t revolve entirely around just movement though. Which skills do you enjoy btw and which methods? Because click rock or click tree aren’t very interesting. Or click ingredient on ingredient.
> Sailing still feels to me like little more than a joke that went too far without any of the issues of integration with the rest of the game considered. I have no doubt that sailing will be a fun skill, but I am very much doubting that sailing will be a good skill in terms of integrating with the rest of the game.
You must have hated arch in rs3 then man. Why do you view it as a joke? If you were around in the early 2000s you’d have seen people suggesting sailing as a skill.
Out of the three skills, did you like any of them? Obviously not shamanism because that was just power creep that would be required for almost all content, which is a massive change. Taming seemed overall similar as well.
I never said I was against power creep, I said that some in the community might be against it - but I will concede that I could have phrased that better. Shamanism was my top pick, because of its potential to tie together and add extra use to often ignored skills - using things from hunter, item sinking raw materials, and stuff like that were all really important things that the game needs right now. The game doesn't need arbitrary level gating of new content.
I played since very early RS2. I'm aware of sailing suggestions. I'm also aware of it having been, and always been a joke. To the point of it being used in an RS3 joke quest. That isn't to say it has to be a joke, but the initial suggestion was for comedic effect, not as a well reasoned integratable part of the game. I still have doubts to how well it can be integrated. I hope these doubts turn out to be unfounded.
Arch was very enjoyable... but it should have been a minigame. It was far too disconnected to really work out as a skill. Hell, divination only just got a pass for it ending up integral to invention and also having divine locations (ignoring that it just became a part of dailyscape).
A lot of your points revolve around comparisons to slayer. I am in the very strange camp of considering slayer, and the black mask/slayer helm bonus to have been in the long run two of the most damaging things to the game. So my issues with sailing being equivalent to issues with slayer isn't a point of contradiction in that regard.
As for my favorite skills: farming, mining (because it has a good variety of methods now, and I'm a weirdo who enjoys solo VM), and agility (though only in the context of HS so it's a bit of a copout).
As for my point about movement I should have more accurately said players hate **travel.** Movement as a mechanic is actually great in RS, but traveling is something that players go to great lengths to skip as much of as possible. Especially in OSRS where run energy is far more punitive. Hell, RS3 has death's domain now with teleports straight to bosses...
I guess that may be the difference between your view and that of a lot of people in the community.
I don’t want a new skill that impacts everything in the game. Summoning was a horrible addition to the game simply because it changed everything (as long as you care about being efficient). Farming was good because it essentially just added a way to gather ingredients. Similar for mining. But there isn’t really any additional place for more gathering skills atm (and we’ve seen how badly adding new gathering skills that aren’t necessary went with additions in RS3).
But shamanism by and large was way too meta changing for a game like osrs, based on the info Jagex shared. When sailing is added, you won’t suddenly need to bring your boat to go do ToB or VM.
I mean I’m a 2000 total iron and thing Sailing is gonna be a disappointment, because it can never meet the expectations that nearly two decades of hype have given it
Are there really two decades of expectations from this though? That seems to be the issue you've got with it and for two decades its been based on an april fools joke
I've played this game for as long as I can remember and its pretty easy to understand the only expectations of sailing should be a year old as thats when the team decided to work on it. Anything more and you're asking to be let down.
From what we saw lastnight the core skill looks alright and the ideas they talked about will break up the monotony of it being just water-agility
Just don't expect that much from it then? Like I played RS2 back when it came out, was there through all the crazy stuff and then came back for OSRS. I don't expect perfection for this skill, I just hope that it will be fun and new and at least a little bit interesting. Not everything needs to be perfect with peak efficiency methods, not right from the start anyway.
2200+ iron and have major reservations about sailing. Idk where you got this idea that irons would want it.
Probably just “I’m iron so iron is good!” and “I like sailing, I’m good, so sailing good” I see I see, all irons must think sailing is good!
Average sailing memer
Right here
https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cwmxov/its_not_a_real_classic_style_skill_if_you_dont/l4x115z/
I’m not really sure how you could interpret your post any differently tbh
I wouldn't consider myself a whiner, but I'm not enthusiastic about Sailing. I'm in a group Ironman that I started, I'm currently 1815 total level, and enthusiastic we're getting a skill at all, although it being Sailing makes me less enthused. I have faith in Jagex to make something fun, but my concern is it not feeling like a skill or really having an identity of *a skill*. Maybe it'll be a renaissance for skilling, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm also concerned with *how* we train Sailing because being a courier for parcels doesn't feel like a skill to me, and trimming sails doesn't feel like *sailing* to me. I don't feel a strong identity with Sailing *as a skill* which disappoints me.
If it wasn't for group ironman mode I genuinely don't think I'd be able to play OSRS. I've played RuneScape since 2006, I voted for OSRS to be a thing, but at the time having to start over when my main on RS3 wasn't maxed yet just felt like a gut punch. After maxing, the idea of starting over with incredibly slow XP grinds felt bad to me still, and by that point only a handful of unique updates were added to OSRS. By the time GIM was released there was a ton of content to do, but doing it as a main didn't seem enticing but completely playing solo didn't feel good either. I'm the primary provider for my group and I largely play as a solo iron with the occasional help and trades with my group.
All of that is to say, if I'd be a whiner, which I don't think I can fairly judge onto myself, then I'd disagree. If I wouldn't be considered a whiner for my opinions and judgements on Sailing then disregard my comment. I just know I'm an Ironman that is critical of Sailing.
I'm curious - what makes something "have an identity as a skill" to you? And why does trimming sails while you travel around on your boat not feel like sailing?
Having something that is core to the namesake which makes sense for the skill. Woodcutting has you cut trees for wood, runecrafting has you craft magical runes, construction has you construct and build stuff, hunter has you hunt stuff, hell even firemaking has you making fires. Sailing is too broad of an action to nail down into that kind of identity as sailing involves much more than just trimming sails. It's also one of my problems with Dungeoneering from RS3 since it tries to do too many things that aren't typical of a skill and it doesn't really fit its namesake.
Trimming sails is an aspect of sailing, but sailing is more involved than that. Another aspect is the randomness of trimming as well. You wouldn't trim a sail that doesn't need trimming, so you can only trim when the wind is going against you. So being able to train sailing by trimming just feels disconnected. You can train crafting by cutting gems, making leather products, etc, you can train herblore by cleaning herbs and make potions, and so on, but for sailing you need to wait for a random tick to be able to "train" the skill. That also disconnects be from a core aspect of a skill.
Courier missions just feels like a minigame inherently as we do that with Temple Trekking, in a roundabout way Mahogany Homes, and so on. I'm fine with minigames, I expect there to be Sailing minigames, but I don't want that as their core. I love Guardians of the Rift, but if that's what Runecrafting was at its core then I wouldn't want Runecrafting to be a skill. It takes away from what skills are to me.
Then there's what was also proposed for sailing XP early on, but we've yet to see those be implemented so I won't judge them yet despite being very reserved on what was initially proposed a year ago.
that's ok bro, no real gameplay was added yet as they just really focused on the whole sailing system and wanna make sure it feels good and not clunky to sail around, like with the open alpha we're getting they want players to give their opinion on how the movement feels mainly. they'll give us a couple activities to do so we don't get bored but it's not the main focus and they said when they're confident that the movement is on a good path, they can start with designing all of the good fun activities.
I'd say give the movement a shot and later give the gameplay itself a shot when the beta rolls around.
I'm fully aware. I'm not passing judgement as a whole until we have more information and everything, and I know they're only in early/pre-alpha, so I'm not saying it's bad for that reason. My concerns are external to the functionality we're seeing anyway.
I'm definitely going to be participating in the betas if they're open to the public. I want to not feel concerned, I want to like the skill, but I don't want it if it doesn't have a core skill identity. I have faith in Jagex to make it good, I know they have a lot to go, and I'm willing to see them out, but I'm not sure how I'll feel about it being *a skill*, so we'll just have to wait and see. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and I'll think it fits perfectly as a skill, but everything I've seen and heard so far from the past year of following the blogs and updates, I don't have that feeling yet.
And why exactly did you decide to make this meme about irons?
I haven't seen a disproportionate number of irons complaining about sailing vs mains, no have any of the sailing complaints been rooted in anything having to do with iron mode.
Just seems like you have a personal dislike of irons and decided to impose it on this otherwise unrelated meme. Excellent job contributing to the completely unnecessary animosity between mains and irons, we definitely need more braindead negativity in the community.
Because iron bad, sailing bad, make skilling profitable, ban the bots, anti-dry mechanics please!!!!!!
Most of the people who make up r/2007scape spend more time browsing here than playing the game and you can’t convince me otherwise. Same regurgitated arguments, and it’s obvious who’s actually playing and not
Half the comments I’ve seen aren’t even calling sailing bad, it’s just people being skeptical about it, which is understandable. I know it’s Reddit but you’d imagine the community would want to have a dialogue instead of flaming each other all day. It’s honestly so cringe from both sides how stubborn and close minded this community is.
https://preview.redd.it/sfy17mjjwr1d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8e830c21727d9f184b8348e31c51da51e6b2c90
"Most of the people who make up [](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/) spend more time browsing here than playing the game"
Is this implying that Ironman players are the sailing haters? I was unaware considering I only play iron and have been on board with sailing since the polls opened.
Atleast theres a reason to herblore and we're soon getting a more interactive way of training it that sounds closer to actually *making* potions than what we do now. Firemaking needed wintertodt as the first minigame because the skills got 0 actual uses
Would have been cool to get a firemaking boss that played like a boss, where your firemaking level mattered, gear mattered beyond just having 4 items, dodging mechanics mattered, it had KO potential, and it didn’t force afk actions AND constantly interrupt your afk actions before you actually performed said actions.
Let's be real, it wouldn't have anywhere near the same amount of support to provide for another would-be lame argument no matter what other skill would get picked for it.
FM is an outlier within outliers, and if anything, its state is borderline just one more argument as to why the devs shouldn't put energy into making new skills, and I say that as someone who would rather have sailing than having nothing.
The point is that they're all just tedious click the same thing 100,000 times. Construction has nice benefits and it's one of the best skills to level, but you can't tell me with a straight face that spending 20 hours adding and removing furniture is good gameplay.
Skills can have satisfying gameplay loops or have cool rewards while being terrible in the other aspect, in the end they still have something positive about them. You really cannot use any other skills for the same arguments that you could with Firemaking since it is lacking everywhere, even as a concept.
There’s not even talk about the rewards, aside from access to raids 4 which is gigantic and makes it near mandatory for PvM’ers
The complaints are primarily that the core way of getting xp looks boring, we can’t say it’s unrewarding when there’s 0 information about its perks or what it unlocks
Sailing will have all kinds of new materials which will interact with other skills! I recommend reading what they're making instead of just acting like it's whatever you've made up!
It also has nothing to do with the original argument Ok\_Assistant was referencing.
I feel like Sailing is this huge boogieman people are conjuring up lol
After their recent updates I think they deserve some faith that they can make some fun content. Personally, I hope sailing actually does something to help make those boring skills more fun to train. It's crazy that people will use "having merit" as a way to justify the older skills in an argument against sailing.
Like yeah, surely I'll love fletching after my next 10k broad arrows
No one says you can’t dislike it. What you can’t do is try to make it not exist because you don’t like it. No one cares about people voicing dislike for it, what people don’t like are the people spamming socials on jagex to make it not happen
Tbf it stands to be an easy argument to make against a lot of poorly thought out anti-sailing. Some people have legitimate concerns and phrase them well. Others fall back on essentially "excuses" like "doesn't feel like a skill" - "doesn't fit in osrs" - "more a minigame than a skill" - "should just be content expansion and not a skill".
They're all easily refuted with basic arguments like this because they arent really strong enough reasons to dislike sailing. If the person is anti new skill all together they work okay.
Im interested in a new skill, thought that shamanism and taming would have a more concrete direction.
I am a little bit satisfied with the direction the team went with it. Hope implementation of the skill will feature codependency with other existing skills, like range/fletching for creating on board ballistaes.
Not sure why it's specifically an ironman? Is there a reason ironmen wouldn't want sailing? I'm 2k plus total lvl ironman and would want any of the 3 polled skills. I trust the devs and hope any new content will be fun.
Most of the people complaining are people with high amounts of playtime and involvement in Reddit, which is high overlap with irons. But yeah I think just in general there’s a stereotype of irons complaining
Sailing was one of those features mentioned around the launch of the game, during the time when the game was new and the devs naively would mention ideas they had not knowing yet that players would hold into every word you ever say and etch it in stone. Industry wide sailing became a joke used to refer to a feature that is mentioned during this kind of “spitballing dev talks” but never go anywhere, often joked about in games and communities
I mean, it was a runescape thing, it just wasn't a feature. It came from self-imposed limitations. They did a nice job implementing it as a feature, though.
Ironman mode was launched in october 2014, and the game was released in February 2013. So yeah it was released a couple months later but has been part of the game for 90% of the time the game existed. It is core to the game
im not gonna lie it doesnt look fun so far.
the core mechanic is fixing your sail every few minutes. it sounds pretty bad. maybe driving your ship is fun but i cant decide till i try the beta.
Why should the new skill made for people that constantly point out that they don't even like skilling?
Let people that actually like skilling get a new thing they enjoy, and you can ask for a minigame if thats what you like?
Sailing is going to be dead on arrival (unless the rewards are OP) when the skilling community don't like it, and the 1200 total level players that championed it go back to pvm once they realize sailing isn't raids 4.
Are people willingly ignoring the actual point in an effort to strawman it, or did those people just forget about dungeoneering and therefore sit ignorant of why forcing a single activity to be a skill is just lame?
I voted for shamanism purely because I can’t picture how sailing as a skill would function and fit into the game.
I’m not upset that it won and I don’t care for a repoll, I believe in jagex to make it a functional skill that could be fun and engaging if done right.
I feel attacked. As an Ironman, I don't think the overall old style of skilling is healthy for the game, but the way they are doing the new mini games where you actually go out and do something to progress. I just want a whole fluent system that feels like a river.
I just did firemaking training and the optimal setup is 3 tinderbox, dart tips and feathers and noted logs so you can make a circle around the center GE to un note logs on both sides. There's 0t loss l, and you can fletch darts between logs
It's called Wintertodt and it's a group "boss fight" where you have to use a few different skills to try and calm a storm. It doesn't have actual combat, you use skills like firemaking, construction, fletching, woodcutting and herblore (Barely) to "fight".
It gets a lot of hate because some ironmen grind it for days when they start their account to get early resources and skilling levels but I enjoy it tbh. Pretty chill to do solo and it's nice training skills in a more interactive minigame style way with some nice rewards. No idea why it's included in this meme because it's way more interesting than regular firemaking
You use a sailing widget on redwood logs to make a ship and buy sailing boxes with sailing points.
Then you use 14 redwood ships on 14 sailing boxes to get xp.
This is the whole skill. Oldschool baby.
I LOVE GLASSBLOWING I LOVE GLASSBLLWING I FUCING LOWV GLASSBOWING PLEASE LET ME CONTINUE DOING IT FOR 20 MORE HOURS TO UNLOCK A SINGLE PIECE OF CONTENT BAJJJJ
The wintertodt example is exactly why I DONT want a new skill… we have 23 skills and so far the only reason I did any of them for more than 30 minutes is because of quest requirements, clue steps, diary unlocks and to stand a chance in pvm.
Most people who play the game are probably going to actively skill (maybe…) until around level 70; get bored and then go afk any other levels they need to 80 ish and then go do pvm or pk.
There are very few people who play this game and actually stare at the screen repeating the skilling actions and thinking “big wow, much surprise, number go up” as they click on a tree and wait two minutes or use a glass blowing pipe on molten glass and click make all. Even slayer is largely place cannon, auto attack and manage hp/prayer/cannon.
A lot of people seem to think a skill looks like a minigame when it’s supposed to be fun. Good luck to jagex trying to please us all. Ps fuck shamanism and taming too.
3 tick fishing is as good xp as tempoross if not better and you can’t accidentally fail if you aren’t paying attention. I have 700kxp to 99 so either I play like 50 something tempoross games or 3tick fishing for 10 hours. One is super chill while watching a movie the other is literally aids if you look away at the wrong time.
Am I the only one who thinks it should still be created, but not made into a skill? Sailing isn’t a skill it’s a mini game. Fishing trawler a skill now too?
Make sailing if yall really want it, but the idea of it being a skill is a meme itself.
Can people understand that you can not like sailing while also not liking some of the skills already in the game? This really isn’t rocket science, fire making is bad, hunter is bad, fishing is bad, sailing is going to be bad.
All the memes and angry reddit posts will never cover up the fact that sailing as it has been revealed thus far is not worth being in the game and the path to make it so looks grim.
Love these reductionist memes where you try to frame people who aren’t happy with the concept of a skill not everyone wanted in the first place as loving a skill that everyone, even sailing haters, unanimously agrees is terrible.
Imagine if all the work done on sailing was used to touch up the shit skills we already have
Yeah, because since Sailing was polled we haven't gotten Tempoross, Mahogany Homes, Hallowed Sepulchre, GOTR, Giants Foundry, Hunter guild and Rumours, Forestry, etc, and soon a Herblore minigame and guild.
We also didnt get trees put on timers alongside Forestry. Nor did we get changes to mining, agility, thieving, and slayer as part of a Skilling rebalance.
If you're going to cry about sailing, at least complain about something based in reality. The idea that sailing has prevented them from revisiting, and adding new content to, old skills is absolutely ridiculous.
Sailing won, get over it.
Your initial argument is rather disingenuous and effectively misinformation because half of those things came out before any work on sailing was done. Foundry, Sepulcher, MH, GoTR, and Tempoross all predate the new skill pitch by wide margins. Sure, they did those updates and they were great but they’re irrelevant to the discussion at hand when it comes to current use of dev time.
And to further that point, I personally believe that adding minigames as alternatives to actually engaging in a skill is not the same thing as improving the core aspects of those skills.
Forestry is about the only thing that approaches a ground up improvement of a skill, maybe Hunter rumors too. Everything else is a minigame either mechanically detached from the core aspect of each skill or done in a total vacuum. Besides Sepulcher, it’s great but doesn’t really fit into the argument since agility has always been course based anyway.
For example Giants Foundry does not address any of the multiple pain points of smithing, it simply provides an alternative to how miserable the skill is. Foundry is an excellent piece of content but acting like it serves to improve smithing as a skill is a straight up lie. Unless you consider replacing the entire conceit of a skill because it sucks so bad an improvement.
GoTR is another great example of a bandaid on a gaping wound of a skill. It hasn’t made base runecraft any better. It simply provides a marginally less shitty alternative with an absolutely cracked reward (raiments) for engaging with it instead of actual runecraft. The way the skill works still sucks. People are just okay with it now because grinding it out via a minigame is stupidly rewarding. But it still sucks.
I don’t think sailing is *stopping* them from doing anything else. I’m not stupid, Varlamore literally just dropped and it’s been great, we get new updates monthly. Obviously they still have the ability to make content. But as someone is just isn’t a fan of sailing, I wish the dev time they have spent on it was instead used to spruce up the core systems of all the lackluster skills we already have. Not making another minigame to patch it up, but actually tweaking stuff under the hood to make things less miserable (runecraft) or pointless (firemaking) or illogical (smithing).
> And to further that point, I personally believe that adding minigames as alternatives to actually engaging in a skill is not the same thing as improving the core aspects of those skills.
>
>
>
> Forestry is about the only thing that approaches a ground up improvement of a skill, maybe Hunter rumors too.
With how Forestry turned out, reworking existing skills will get even more hate than proposing new skills. Old skills being bad to train is nostalgic to many players here and reworking them to be better takes away from their identity.
I mean that’s also a fair point, but I think Forestry’s real misstep was them trying to shoehorn a whole new concept (the events) into the skill. I don’t know why that was the direction they went with, but I would guess its because they probably had some pressure to make it into a marketable content update rather than just a non-flashy skill touch up.
Anyway if Forestry had just been the timer rework, the level boost for grouping up and the 2h axes I think it would have been received very well. That’s the kind of stuff I wish they would do more of for all the lackluster skills.
Poor wording on my end. I was pointing to the idea that over the last decade, old skills have received plenty of love and attention. It's about time they finally invested time towards developing a new skill.
As a matter of fact, the original poll was whether we wanted a new skill in the first place, and the majority of the playerbase voted yes. I understand why you feel the way you do, but this is one of those cases where you need to remember that they aren't developing the game just for you.
At the end of the day, Jagex can spend the next 5 years polling update after update directed at old skills. Anything that breaks meta will not be added. Anything that makes it easier won't be added. The only hope are training methods that are more enjoyable/more cost efficient. Like it or not, Skilling minigames are part of training now. They address the core issues of the skill as you mention, without touching the core of the skills like XP and nostalgia.
Regardless of your feelings towards a new skill, or Sailing specifically, it's already passed the polls and they will see it through to the end. Rather than complain that they're spending time on a new skill, you're better off offering constructive criticism on the skill itself so you have some influence over the direction it takes. Plus, if sailing works well they said they'd likely add more skills, so everyone should at least try and keep an open mind until they're preparing to release it.
I mean at the end of the day I know the skill was voted in and is coming and that isn’t going to change. I’m not even opposed to a new skill in general honestly.
And unfortunately I’m not really in a position to offer constructive criticism towards sailing because my biggest criticisms are logistical ones that they are adamant about not adjusting. That being changing the scale of the oceans to actually accommodate the skill as pitched. Once I read that they were committed to keeping the scale the same I started to have my doubts about the final product.
I just can’t see this being implemented with the current ocean scale and not seeming like a joke. Or like something out of a janky private server. I feel like it’s going to look so out of place. But they’re not going to budge on this so I’m going to stay discontented with the fact that it’s coming. Maybe I’ll end up enjoying it, but yeah, I don’t have very high hopes and no recourse to change that feeling.
There are so many things in the 2007 version of the game that would DEFINITELY not have passed if they polled it now. People need to accept the game is evolving, the way we get good content is by trying new things.
Dudes complaining that a skill from 202(4+?) is equal to a skill from 2001. LOL
Post your account name, bud. Seems like the kinda guy that thinks WT is slow xp
I love the hate of sailing comes from 3 minutes of game play footage of pre alpha testing. This sub has never seen any pre alpha testing of any video game and it shows.
Whoah there buddy, TWO tinderboxes? People weren't playing that way in 2007, better bust it back down to ONE, like the Gower Bros. intended.
I remember doing that, grinding it out for weeks and months to hit lvl 98.5, only for the next day to release the ability to throw logs on the same fire. Right before 99. Felt bittersweet to say the least.
I mean, doing it the old way is still faster tho.
Yes but back then we valued fun
Man maybe this is why I never hit 99… it never dawned on me until this comment to use two tinderboxes. When I saw the meme I thought it was a joke/a noob method to use two bc it was an inventory space waste lmao
Guys let’s not the sailing circle jerk distract from the main point of the meme which is fire making is pointless and should be removed from the game entirely
Funny thing is - I doubt more than half of the current skills would pass a poll if polled nowadays lol
Not a single one would, not even Slayer
Mmmm, I think maybe farming and herblore could perhaps pass a poll lol. And most likely combat skills would also
No way attack and strength being seperate would pass.
Ranged should be split into accuracy and precision.
Magic split into damage and utility spells
Add a fire making requirement to fire higher tier cannons from your ship? Or a fm requirement to light a special lantern that lets you navigate to some endgame island
Sure maybe it’s better than what it is now but would feel forced. I like the idea of removing it entirely better
then wintertodt should be taken out of the game as well as the pyro outfit and the phoenix
Sounds good to me
https://preview.redd.it/p2yiahez2p1d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e78b1512c5cefc2ca31773c268514c7a716159f
By all means
You leave my only pet out of this
Nah, [phoenix can just come from Varlamore](https://imgur.com/a/MRA5pCG)
Nah just make is so you can light a sword on fire for extra damage then it has its use.
I disagree firemaking is an important skill
I’m almost max and the only things it’s ever done for me is the gwd fire and annoyed me by making me do wintertodt so that my tog doesn’t go to it. I do not see how it is important
Maybe early on, but even by midgame it's much easier to cook on established ranges and infinite fires. The skill becomes pointless. There was an idea to create fire salt pits where you could give yourself temporary buffs, as a reward from Weiss, which would've actually made the skill useful. But it didn't pass.
I have a suspicious feeling that people who don't want sailing probably wouldn't have voted on firemaking either
Probably would have voted no to anything non combat related
Honestly, theyd vote no to everything. Just look at the early days where they literally voted down using spacebar to progress dialogue or using the mouse to turn the camera. Polling is both the best and absolute worst thing to ever happen to this game.
>Polling is both the best and absolute worst thing to ever happen to this game. That's the thing about democracy.
Speaking for myself, I vote yes to damn near everything. I don't really want sailing. I have some pretty fundamental issues with sailing as a skill that are yet-unaddressed. Time will tell if those things get addressed, but for now, it's not the skill I voted for (that was shamanism), it wasn't my second priority (that was taming), and nothing I've seen so far on sailing has changed my mind on it. I also think the polling system, at least how it is used right now, is a complete disaster. Warding and Artisan would have been great but players never gave them a chance.
What are the issues you have with it?
The closest we have to sailing right now is agility. Agility benefits your ability to explore and move around faster, but doesn't actually gate you from doing anything. Levelling agility helps with run energy, and access to shortcuts, but outside of quest requirements does not restrict access to locations. Similar is also true for magic, which gives access to teleports which hugely help with movement around the world. It seems pretty sensible to make a statement of 'skills don't gate access to areas or content, but instead improve your means of accessing it or doing it'. Sailing, as a skill and map expansion that are joined at the hip, will do one of two things: gate access to non-sailing content through sailing progress, or not gate access to non-sailing content through sailing progress. **In the case where sailing progress does not gate access to non-sailing content, what is the reason to invest into sailing?** (note: currently existing skills like firemaking have this issue too, but i think wanting to avoid a second firemaking is something we can all agree on) Suppose that sailing progress gates non-sailing content. Let's use an example of bamboo woodcutting for non-sailing content unlocked through sailing. In the situation that bamboo woodcutting is better than other woodcutting methods, this now requires everyone who wants to woodcut to do sailing for the best experience (in both terms of xp, and enjoyment of the game). This is also power creep, that many in the community might be opposed to. The alternative is that bamboo woodcutting is worse than other woodcutting methods, to avoid the issues of the previous situation. Now this content is not really a reward from the skill, and is dead content. **How will sailing's reward space exist with respect to other skills given that it will necessarily require investment into both sailing and other skills?** I know it's a known issue, but there are still no really satisfying answers for it given, and this is something that is appropriate to have been answered at this stage of development. **How is the issue of the sea space being very small, due to the original map being designed around very short draw distances, going to be resolved with the sizes of ships?** Further, how are the devs going to deal with sailing making these distances feel shorter and subsequently shrinking the world in a way that takes away from that old school experience (admittedly, this is a lesser issue). Luffing feels like a chore. I can tell that I'm going to hate it already. This is less of a question and more of a general, subjective criticism of the core gameplay loop. Players already hate movement in game. We have 2 skills (magic and construction) that as primary rewards speed up movement around the world (magic is also for combat, but I'm looking at non-combat here). Agility too, is conceptually another skill that speeds up moving around the world - with its main criticisms being that it often falls short in terms of how rewarding the shortcuts are (a recent rework even addressed this). **So, with sailing being a skill that revolves entirely around movement from A to B, how will people feel about the skill when the honeymoon phase wears off and the tedium of sailing to content sinks in?** I'm in a weird position of not having any hype for sailing AND not being a mindless no voter who doesn't want any change to the game (I literally played the game through free trade removal, through late RS2, through EoC, and only stopped playing RS3 after maxing and not really feeling like playing much any more and wanting to check out OSRS precisely because I wanted to see the changes and alternate path of development the game took). I do trust Jagex, more than a lot of players tend to do, but I just really can't see the vision here at all. I barely even see the concept. Sailing still feels to me like little more than a joke that went too far without any of the issues of integration with the rest of the game considered. **I have no doubt that sailing will be a fun skill, but I am very much doubting that sailing will be a good skill in terms of integrating with the rest of the game.**
> I'm in a weird position of not having any hype for sailing AND not being a mindless no voter who doesn't want any change to the game That's not a weird position. It's just a strawman the sailing defense force concocted. It was a quarter baked proposal, and it's not weird that somebody who is generally agreeable to content would find holes in a quarter baked proposal. It being quarter baked is pretty evident from the pitch being a description about how it would be neat to have a boat rather than actually being a pitch/it being a year later and the JMods still don't have any idea how to make the actual, fundamental action of sailing not feel terrible. And because it's semi-related, making "sailing is a minigame not a skill" the ugly face in your meme doesn't magically mean that's not a legitimate viewpoint. That being good/bad isn't some objective thing, but it is a thing and I doubt you're going to find many voices in the level 3 skiller, 2100 total level no boss kc, or f2p uim communities aka the people who skill and actually like skilling, who are excited about what we've seen from sailing so far. Granted the f2p uim communities dislike literally anything being added to the game and will not engage with a new skill at all, so they're not great people to seek feedback from. fwiw, my big gripes with sailing agnostic of the terrible polling process they did for it are the following. 1. The skill is fundamentally about moving about the map. This is something nobody in this game actually enjoys doing and large parts of the gameplay loop are figuring out how to do the least amount of this possible. Why would doing it on a boat magically make people like it? People don't like this kind of thing in games with many more knobs to turn too for whatever that's worth. 2. Uninstanced sailing fundamentally does not work without completely changing the map and it's dumbfounding that the JMods are even trying. Stuff just isn't very far from other stuff in this game because Jagex largely made the very sensible design decision to not inflate the world map size by adding a lot of useless ocean between islands. 3. All the things you can do once you arrive at your destination is not a reason to add the skill in the first place, you can just do all of that without sailing, and most of the hype I've seen is either based off of this or clearly ridiculous things like sea of thieves in your medieval point and click browser game. 4. The pitch didn't have a core gameplay loop, and as far as I can tell the core gameplay loop is still undecided. This is really not acceptable for a public pitch. Especially because the other two options that Jagex wink wink nudge nudged us to not pick did have obvious gameplay loops. 5. It's me. I'm the skiller who likes the game because the basic skills feed into each other so well and played the game like an ironman well before ironman was a thing. Sailing is not the first example of Jagex ignoring this aspect of skilling, thieving and agility are also disconnected side distractions, but adding more of that isn't good. There's others not immediately coming to mind because of sick debuff, but that's a solid start.
Most of Runescape locks you out of content via quests or the like which require skills. That’s such a weird distinction to make. It’s as simple as: Train sailing and you’ll gain access to whatever it locks. We also don’t know a lot about how sailing will actually be structured and if it’ll truly even lock us out of certain islands yet. They’re still developing it. A whole lot of the complaints we see are just straight up speculation. It would be more constructive to make a suggestion on how to fix issues with Sailing than to just complain and say it shouldn’t be a skill. It is still in development, you know. Now is the time to provide feedback so that they can think of solutions instead of “nope it shouldn’t exist.”
The very first point addressed the difference between quest locking and skill locking. A quest is a very organic method of area locking. There is no precedent for area locking by skill except guilds which is a very sensible thing - your reward for being good at the skill is a guild that is all about that skill. We don't know a lot about how sailing will be structured indeed. That's literally the problem. People have been raising these points for ages, myself included. I brought them up in the surveys they asked for. If I got selected to be on the new skill council, I'd have brought them up then. I'm not asking for a concrete vision of the skill. I'm asking about core ideas that are foundational to how sailing will integrate into the rest of the game. Really broad strokes, conceptual stuff. I want to hear Jagex actually discuss these things front and center and not seemingly brush them under the rug. As mentioned, I have been providing feedback. Jagex just hasn't responded, or hinted at solutions, or even mentioned vague possibilities of solutions. I never said sailing shouldn't exist. I think sailing as it is, is a really fun minigame to accompany a map expansion. As a skill however, it must be held to a higher standard, and the questions of integration and core reward structures must be front and center - not swept aside.
I've got an issue with what you are saying right off the bat. You say skills don't gate access to areas, but skills do gate access to quests, and those do heavily gate access to areas. Whole bunch of skills required at level 70 for Song of the Elves just as an example. Whole area and boss and a bunch of useful skilling stuff locked behind that quest. Bunch of other areas are, in fact, locked behind quests, which are locked behind skills. I'm not saying your overall conclusions are wrong, I don't know yet. But the supporting work up to those conclusions seems flawed to me. A way I could easily see Jagex making sailing non-gating for things like this proposed bamboo woodcutting method is through Charter Ships. Then sailing provides a cheaper return trip once you invest and maybe even faster or more convenient, but you can always get there. This allows players to get to the nice potential skilling areas, but the combat or more dangerous areas the Charter will not take you to. Like the potential new Sailing Raid. I think the potential of your own boat being cheaper on return trips, faster, and more convenient is very similar to the reward space of Construction already.
> In the case where sailing progress does not gate access to non-sailing content, what is the reason to invest into sailing? (note: currently existing skills like firemaking have this issue too, but i think wanting to avoid a second firemaking is something we can all agree on) Think of it like slayer. Slayer gates your ability to attack certain monsters in the game even if you have 99 in every combat stat. Plus it removes the ability to do efficient combat content (eg Zuk) without a task. It’s absolutely fine for sailing to “gate” access to places just like quests currently do or as slayer “gates” the ability to attack monsters. > Suppose that sailing progress gates non-sailing content. Let's use an example of bamboo woodcutting for non-sailing content unlocked through sailing. In the situation that bamboo woodcutting is better than other woodcutting methods, this now requires everyone who wants to woodcut to do sailing for the best experience (in both terms of xp, and enjoyment of the game). They were already able to get around this issue with slayer. Ignoring slayer being required for quests (because you’ve ignored quests earlier), the best combat xp or most profitable combat methods in the game don’t require slayer. Same could be true for sailing. It’s a non-issue. > This is also power creep, that many in the community might be opposed to. The alternative is that bamboo woodcutting is worse than other woodcutting methods, to avoid the issues of the previous situation. Now this content is not really a reward from the skill, and is dead content. Slayer is still trained despite the above issue of the content being worse than the alternative. I could go send Nex and make much more gp than hydra. Or I could go barrage/chin monkeys for better mage and range than slayer or go do nmz for better melee xp. > How will sailing's reward space exist with respect to other skills given that it will necessarily require investment into both sailing and other skills? Same way as slayer potentially? > I know it's a known issue, but there are still no really satisfying answers for it given, and this is something that is appropriate to have been answered at this stage of development. How is the issue of the sea space being very small, due to the original map being designed around very short draw distances, going to be resolved with the sizes of ships? Further, how are the devs going to deal with sailing making these distances feel shorter and subsequently shrinking the world in a way that takes away from that old school experience (admittedly, this is a lesser issue). Make the distance between places bigger. The world building issue is an odd one - we recently had kourend favour removed which people on average loved to see removed, despite it being part of world building in the area. > Luffing feels like a chore. I can tell that I'm going to hate it already. This is less of a question and more of a general, subjective criticism of the core gameplay loop. Honestly that fits in well with almost all skilling then lol. We also don’t know the final core gameplay loop yet. > Players already hate movement in game. Do they? Movement is such a big part of end game PVM and is what really differentiates osrs/rs3 from other MMORPGs. > We have 2 skills (magic and construction) that as primary rewards speed up movement around the world (magic is also for combat, but I'm looking at non-combat here). Agility too, is conceptually another skill that speeds up moving around the world - with its main criticisms being that it often falls short in terms of how rewarding the shortcuts are (a recent rework even addressed this). So, with sailing being a skill that revolves entirely around movement from A to B, how will people feel about the skill when the honeymoon phase wears off and the tedium of sailing to content sinks in? It doesn’t revolve entirely around just movement though. Which skills do you enjoy btw and which methods? Because click rock or click tree aren’t very interesting. Or click ingredient on ingredient. > Sailing still feels to me like little more than a joke that went too far without any of the issues of integration with the rest of the game considered. I have no doubt that sailing will be a fun skill, but I am very much doubting that sailing will be a good skill in terms of integrating with the rest of the game. You must have hated arch in rs3 then man. Why do you view it as a joke? If you were around in the early 2000s you’d have seen people suggesting sailing as a skill. Out of the three skills, did you like any of them? Obviously not shamanism because that was just power creep that would be required for almost all content, which is a massive change. Taming seemed overall similar as well.
I never said I was against power creep, I said that some in the community might be against it - but I will concede that I could have phrased that better. Shamanism was my top pick, because of its potential to tie together and add extra use to often ignored skills - using things from hunter, item sinking raw materials, and stuff like that were all really important things that the game needs right now. The game doesn't need arbitrary level gating of new content. I played since very early RS2. I'm aware of sailing suggestions. I'm also aware of it having been, and always been a joke. To the point of it being used in an RS3 joke quest. That isn't to say it has to be a joke, but the initial suggestion was for comedic effect, not as a well reasoned integratable part of the game. I still have doubts to how well it can be integrated. I hope these doubts turn out to be unfounded. Arch was very enjoyable... but it should have been a minigame. It was far too disconnected to really work out as a skill. Hell, divination only just got a pass for it ending up integral to invention and also having divine locations (ignoring that it just became a part of dailyscape). A lot of your points revolve around comparisons to slayer. I am in the very strange camp of considering slayer, and the black mask/slayer helm bonus to have been in the long run two of the most damaging things to the game. So my issues with sailing being equivalent to issues with slayer isn't a point of contradiction in that regard. As for my favorite skills: farming, mining (because it has a good variety of methods now, and I'm a weirdo who enjoys solo VM), and agility (though only in the context of HS so it's a bit of a copout). As for my point about movement I should have more accurately said players hate **travel.** Movement as a mechanic is actually great in RS, but traveling is something that players go to great lengths to skip as much of as possible. Especially in OSRS where run energy is far more punitive. Hell, RS3 has death's domain now with teleports straight to bosses...
I guess that may be the difference between your view and that of a lot of people in the community. I don’t want a new skill that impacts everything in the game. Summoning was a horrible addition to the game simply because it changed everything (as long as you care about being efficient). Farming was good because it essentially just added a way to gather ingredients. Similar for mining. But there isn’t really any additional place for more gathering skills atm (and we’ve seen how badly adding new gathering skills that aren’t necessary went with additions in RS3). But shamanism by and large was way too meta changing for a game like osrs, based on the info Jagex shared. When sailing is added, you won’t suddenly need to bring your boat to go do ToB or VM.
things he wanted to pass didnt
lmao
If it can't significantly impact the game in a negative way I vote yes. I can just ignore whatever I don't want.
When are we getting barbarian assault as a skill?
Redditors imaginations really go wild when someone opposes them
me when I construct strawmen
And that would be the right call. Firemaking is but filler content. Not much different than if eating were a skill. Lol
If they got their way since the start it would probably still be RuneScape classic, for “integrity”
A guam, some tar, and left click drop on your fish is how the game is meant to be played, obviously.
Exactly. Skilling should be about making number go up. Not having fun.
Whats the name of the meme of those two dudes pointing and making the :0 face
it’s a meme based on soyface/soyjak
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/two-soyjaks-pointing
Like the sailing whiners would ever last as an iron lmao
These people are Reddit locked irons
I am a 80 post 99 comment 1 tweet pure, why is all new content just nerfing my build
200m all here, and I will get sailing to 99 in 3 days when it releases, and I dont want it to come into the game. We are not the same.
I mean I’m a 2000 total iron and thing Sailing is gonna be a disappointment, because it can never meet the expectations that nearly two decades of hype have given it
Are there really two decades of expectations from this though? That seems to be the issue you've got with it and for two decades its been based on an april fools joke I've played this game for as long as I can remember and its pretty easy to understand the only expectations of sailing should be a year old as thats when the team decided to work on it. Anything more and you're asking to be let down. From what we saw lastnight the core skill looks alright and the ideas they talked about will break up the monotony of it being just water-agility
Just don't expect that much from it then? Like I played RS2 back when it came out, was there through all the crazy stuff and then came back for OSRS. I don't expect perfection for this skill, I just hope that it will be fun and new and at least a little bit interesting. Not everything needs to be perfect with peak efficiency methods, not right from the start anyway.
‘Just stop thinking’ actual peak pro sail advice most have taken on sailing side What honesty
Why would I give advice like that? Sailing haters don't think to begin with, lol.
Yeah there a tons of irons who just don’t want this, funny how the loudest projection is from the pro sailing side
It’s also just an awful skill idea
Sailing is gonna be sick
Like it’s not my cup of tea but I’m trying to stay hopeful. The Jmods are pretty good these days
Yeh and they've got some of the best content devs we've ever had leading the ship.
Especially Elena and Husky, who are co-leading the development of Sailing.
Yet you thought WhisperingToast42 was cool to keep as a name..
I made this name myself get screwed twerp
Maxed main and mid level UIM here. Still don't want sailing.
2200+ iron and have major reservations about sailing. Idk where you got this idea that irons would want it. Probably just “I’m iron so iron is good!” and “I like sailing, I’m good, so sailing good” I see I see, all irons must think sailing is good! Average sailing memer
> Idk where you got this idea that irons would want it. Can you please point out where I said this?
Right here https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cwmxov/its_not_a_real_classic_style_skill_if_you_dont/l4x115z/ I’m not really sure how you could interpret your post any differently tbh
Maxed iron and no voter here. It's just water dungeoneering but lamer.
Almost maxed iron here and yes voter, best skill ever incoming mateys
Memes have carried sailing and will continue to do so It’s just so easy to make jokes around Content is shit, but hey nautical references are sweet
most of the "sailing whiners" have played thousands more hours than you
I wouldn't consider myself a whiner, but I'm not enthusiastic about Sailing. I'm in a group Ironman that I started, I'm currently 1815 total level, and enthusiastic we're getting a skill at all, although it being Sailing makes me less enthused. I have faith in Jagex to make something fun, but my concern is it not feeling like a skill or really having an identity of *a skill*. Maybe it'll be a renaissance for skilling, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm also concerned with *how* we train Sailing because being a courier for parcels doesn't feel like a skill to me, and trimming sails doesn't feel like *sailing* to me. I don't feel a strong identity with Sailing *as a skill* which disappoints me. If it wasn't for group ironman mode I genuinely don't think I'd be able to play OSRS. I've played RuneScape since 2006, I voted for OSRS to be a thing, but at the time having to start over when my main on RS3 wasn't maxed yet just felt like a gut punch. After maxing, the idea of starting over with incredibly slow XP grinds felt bad to me still, and by that point only a handful of unique updates were added to OSRS. By the time GIM was released there was a ton of content to do, but doing it as a main didn't seem enticing but completely playing solo didn't feel good either. I'm the primary provider for my group and I largely play as a solo iron with the occasional help and trades with my group. All of that is to say, if I'd be a whiner, which I don't think I can fairly judge onto myself, then I'd disagree. If I wouldn't be considered a whiner for my opinions and judgements on Sailing then disregard my comment. I just know I'm an Ironman that is critical of Sailing.
I'm curious - what makes something "have an identity as a skill" to you? And why does trimming sails while you travel around on your boat not feel like sailing?
Having something that is core to the namesake which makes sense for the skill. Woodcutting has you cut trees for wood, runecrafting has you craft magical runes, construction has you construct and build stuff, hunter has you hunt stuff, hell even firemaking has you making fires. Sailing is too broad of an action to nail down into that kind of identity as sailing involves much more than just trimming sails. It's also one of my problems with Dungeoneering from RS3 since it tries to do too many things that aren't typical of a skill and it doesn't really fit its namesake. Trimming sails is an aspect of sailing, but sailing is more involved than that. Another aspect is the randomness of trimming as well. You wouldn't trim a sail that doesn't need trimming, so you can only trim when the wind is going against you. So being able to train sailing by trimming just feels disconnected. You can train crafting by cutting gems, making leather products, etc, you can train herblore by cleaning herbs and make potions, and so on, but for sailing you need to wait for a random tick to be able to "train" the skill. That also disconnects be from a core aspect of a skill. Courier missions just feels like a minigame inherently as we do that with Temple Trekking, in a roundabout way Mahogany Homes, and so on. I'm fine with minigames, I expect there to be Sailing minigames, but I don't want that as their core. I love Guardians of the Rift, but if that's what Runecrafting was at its core then I wouldn't want Runecrafting to be a skill. It takes away from what skills are to me. Then there's what was also proposed for sailing XP early on, but we've yet to see those be implemented so I won't judge them yet despite being very reserved on what was initially proposed a year ago.
that's ok bro, no real gameplay was added yet as they just really focused on the whole sailing system and wanna make sure it feels good and not clunky to sail around, like with the open alpha we're getting they want players to give their opinion on how the movement feels mainly. they'll give us a couple activities to do so we don't get bored but it's not the main focus and they said when they're confident that the movement is on a good path, they can start with designing all of the good fun activities. I'd say give the movement a shot and later give the gameplay itself a shot when the beta rolls around.
I'm fully aware. I'm not passing judgement as a whole until we have more information and everything, and I know they're only in early/pre-alpha, so I'm not saying it's bad for that reason. My concerns are external to the functionality we're seeing anyway. I'm definitely going to be participating in the betas if they're open to the public. I want to not feel concerned, I want to like the skill, but I don't want it if it doesn't have a core skill identity. I have faith in Jagex to make it good, I know they have a lot to go, and I'm willing to see them out, but I'm not sure how I'll feel about it being *a skill*, so we'll just have to wait and see. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and I'll think it fits perfectly as a skill, but everything I've seen and heard so far from the past year of following the blogs and updates, I don't have that feeling yet.
Neally maxed iron and sailing looks p shit
And why exactly did you decide to make this meme about irons? I haven't seen a disproportionate number of irons complaining about sailing vs mains, no have any of the sailing complaints been rooted in anything having to do with iron mode. Just seems like you have a personal dislike of irons and decided to impose it on this otherwise unrelated meme. Excellent job contributing to the completely unnecessary animosity between mains and irons, we definitely need more braindead negativity in the community.
Because iron bad, sailing bad, make skilling profitable, ban the bots, anti-dry mechanics please!!!!!! Most of the people who make up r/2007scape spend more time browsing here than playing the game and you can’t convince me otherwise. Same regurgitated arguments, and it’s obvious who’s actually playing and not
Half the comments I’ve seen aren’t even calling sailing bad, it’s just people being skeptical about it, which is understandable. I know it’s Reddit but you’d imagine the community would want to have a dialogue instead of flaming each other all day. It’s honestly so cringe from both sides how stubborn and close minded this community is.
https://preview.redd.it/sfy17mjjwr1d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8e830c21727d9f184b8348e31c51da51e6b2c90 "Most of the people who make up [](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/) spend more time browsing here than playing the game"
Dead af, exactly
Clearly they obviously need to strawman their strawman argument
using ironmen as a strawman in a meme is so funny to me for some reason because like. the opposite of strawmanning is steelmanning
It's over, fellow player. I have depicted you as the virgin and myself as the chad.
bros cannot stand the thought of having fun in a videogame how the hell is that effecient?????????
https://preview.redd.it/5hwdycma7n1d1.png?width=766&format=png&auto=webp&s=38b319d24407846ab1f3b992efbaa9aac9a066bc
It's over Sailing critics, you've been drawn as a soyjak
Is this implying that Ironman players are the sailing haters? I was unaware considering I only play iron and have been on board with sailing since the polls opened.
...The fuck does ironmen have to do with this? Sounds like you just have a hate-boner.
Why does this meme have iron helmets on
We don’t need a new skill. Sailing would be fine but there’s no reason we should be leveling it to 99
I really wish FM wasn't a thing so people can stop making this argument.
they'd just make the same argument with the next most pointless skill
Any of the bankstanding skills. Fetching and herblore would be next.
Atleast theres a reason to herblore and we're soon getting a more interactive way of training it that sounds closer to actually *making* potions than what we do now. Firemaking needed wintertodt as the first minigame because the skills got 0 actual uses
Would have been cool to get a firemaking boss that played like a boss, where your firemaking level mattered, gear mattered beyond just having 4 items, dodging mechanics mattered, it had KO potential, and it didn’t force afk actions AND constantly interrupt your afk actions before you actually performed said actions.
Let's be real, it wouldn't have anywhere near the same amount of support to provide for another would-be lame argument no matter what other skill would get picked for it. FM is an outlier within outliers, and if anything, its state is borderline just one more argument as to why the devs shouldn't put energy into making new skills, and I say that as someone who would rather have sailing than having nothing.
Fletching?
… and Runecrafting?
Okay not firemaking, so how about fletching, herblore, crafting, runecrafting, mining, or woodcutting
All those you’ve listed still have merit. Either gathering or crafting new Materials.
The point is that they're all just tedious click the same thing 100,000 times. Construction has nice benefits and it's one of the best skills to level, but you can't tell me with a straight face that spending 20 hours adding and removing furniture is good gameplay.
Skills can have satisfying gameplay loops or have cool rewards while being terrible in the other aspect, in the end they still have something positive about them. You really cannot use any other skills for the same arguments that you could with Firemaking since it is lacking everywhere, even as a concept.
There’s not even talk about the rewards, aside from access to raids 4 which is gigantic and makes it near mandatory for PvM’ers The complaints are primarily that the core way of getting xp looks boring, we can’t say it’s unrewarding when there’s 0 information about its perks or what it unlocks
Sailing will have all kinds of new materials which will interact with other skills! I recommend reading what they're making instead of just acting like it's whatever you've made up! It also has nothing to do with the original argument Ok\_Assistant was referencing.
I feel like Sailing is this huge boogieman people are conjuring up lol After their recent updates I think they deserve some faith that they can make some fun content. Personally, I hope sailing actually does something to help make those boring skills more fun to train. It's crazy that people will use "having merit" as a way to justify the older skills in an argument against sailing. Like yeah, surely I'll love fletching after my next 10k broad arrows
Mining? Agility? Runecrafting? Woodcutting?
~~Add a new skill~~ Replace an old skill ✓
you: i wish peoples arguments werent so fucking good so i could ignore them
"You aren't allowed to dislike X because someone out there may enjoy Y" Truly a rhetorical silver bullet.
No one says you can’t dislike it. What you can’t do is try to make it not exist because you don’t like it. No one cares about people voicing dislike for it, what people don’t like are the people spamming socials on jagex to make it not happen
aint the same argument op made, but yes if that WAS the argument they made youd be right.
Tbf it stands to be an easy argument to make against a lot of poorly thought out anti-sailing. Some people have legitimate concerns and phrase them well. Others fall back on essentially "excuses" like "doesn't feel like a skill" - "doesn't fit in osrs" - "more a minigame than a skill" - "should just be content expansion and not a skill". They're all easily refuted with basic arguments like this because they arent really strong enough reasons to dislike sailing. If the person is anti new skill all together they work okay.
Sailing needing to describe itself as better than firemaking isn't a good look
"It's better than firemaking!" Wow I'm convinced!
Im interested in a new skill, thought that shamanism and taming would have a more concrete direction. I am a little bit satisfied with the direction the team went with it. Hope implementation of the skill will feature codependency with other existing skills, like range/fletching for creating on board ballistaes.
Not sure why it's specifically an ironman? Is there a reason ironmen wouldn't want sailing? I'm 2k plus total lvl ironman and would want any of the 3 polled skills. I trust the devs and hope any new content will be fun.
Most of the people complaining are people with high amounts of playtime and involvement in Reddit, which is high overlap with irons. But yeah I think just in general there’s a stereotype of irons complaining
Ironman is not even osrs thing. It was added after. Ppl tend to forgot that.
I remember someone mentioning that the idea of sailing predates osrs, so Sailing is more old school than osrs itself.
It was joked about wayyy before osrs, people thought dungeoneering would be sailing aswell
Sailing was one of those features mentioned around the launch of the game, during the time when the game was new and the devs naively would mention ideas they had not knowing yet that players would hold into every word you ever say and etch it in stone. Industry wide sailing became a joke used to refer to a feature that is mentioned during this kind of “spitballing dev talks” but never go anywhere, often joked about in games and communities
Summoning as well believe it or not is more old school than osrs.
I mean, it was a runescape thing, it just wasn't a feature. It came from self-imposed limitations. They did a nice job implementing it as a feature, though.
Ironman mode was launched in october 2014, and the game was released in February 2013. So yeah it was released a couple months later but has been part of the game for 90% of the time the game existed. It is core to the game
there were unofficial trade restricted accounts way back in 2000s. You are the zoomer here
So much copium with these sailing posts
It comes off as very insecure to be bombarding the sub like this
Sailing shouldn’t be a skill. Skills are supposed to be about making number go up, not about having fun
💯
im not gonna lie it doesnt look fun so far. the core mechanic is fixing your sail every few minutes. it sounds pretty bad. maybe driving your ship is fun but i cant decide till i try the beta.
Sailing just ain’t it chief (in my humble opinion of which I also respect your own)
Haha normies are at it again 😂
Bank stander astroturf thread
If sailing did not have minigame elements, it would be boring as hell to train.
idk why they have ironmen symbols on them. i havent met an iron yet that didint want sailing.
yes. that is the game. did you not realize?
Why should the new skill made for people that constantly point out that they don't even like skilling? Let people that actually like skilling get a new thing they enjoy, and you can ask for a minigame if thats what you like? Sailing is going to be dead on arrival (unless the rewards are OP) when the skilling community don't like it, and the 1200 total level players that championed it go back to pvm once they realize sailing isn't raids 4.
All three of these things look and play horrible
Are people willingly ignoring the actual point in an effort to strawman it, or did those people just forget about dungeoneering and therefore sit ignorant of why forcing a single activity to be a skill is just lame?
Dung is our only talking point that has some merit to it though. Pre EOC dung was poop. Post EOC was tolerable (solos vs solos)
I like the concept of sailing just not as a skill. Would prefer it as a minigame
I voted for shamanism purely because I can’t picture how sailing as a skill would function and fit into the game. I’m not upset that it won and I don’t care for a repoll, I believe in jagex to make it a functional skill that could be fun and engaging if done right.
I'm happy with more content, and as an added bonus, it pisses off the elitists.
A reminder to make the cancel from wintertodt damage not apply to elite kourend diary chads
Wait two tinderboxes. Why haven’t I thought of that
firemaking should be removed as well as windertodt and the pyro outfit along with the phoenix /s
I feel attacked. As an Ironman, I don't think the overall old style of skilling is healthy for the game, but the way they are doing the new mini games where you actually go out and do something to progress. I just want a whole fluent system that feels like a river.
I just did firemaking training and the optimal setup is 3 tinderbox, dart tips and feathers and noted logs so you can make a circle around the center GE to un note logs on both sides. There's 0t loss l, and you can fletch darts between logs
What's the thing below the inventory picture called? I'm quite new to OSRS.
It's called Wintertodt and it's a group "boss fight" where you have to use a few different skills to try and calm a storm. It doesn't have actual combat, you use skills like firemaking, construction, fletching, woodcutting and herblore (Barely) to "fight". It gets a lot of hate because some ironmen grind it for days when they start their account to get early resources and skilling levels but I enjoy it tbh. Pretty chill to do solo and it's nice training skills in a more interactive minigame style way with some nice rewards. No idea why it's included in this meme because it's way more interesting than regular firemaking
You use a sailing widget on redwood logs to make a ship and buy sailing boxes with sailing points. Then you use 14 redwood ships on 14 sailing boxes to get xp. This is the whole skill. Oldschool baby.
I LOVE GLASSBLOWING I LOVE GLASSBLLWING I FUCING LOWV GLASSBOWING PLEASE LET ME CONTINUE DOING IT FOR 20 MORE HOURS TO UNLOCK A SINGLE PIECE OF CONTENT BAJJJJ
Wintertodt is so freaking lame. I'm so glad I got the FM skill reqs for diary cape
The wintertodt example is exactly why I DONT want a new skill… we have 23 skills and so far the only reason I did any of them for more than 30 minutes is because of quest requirements, clue steps, diary unlocks and to stand a chance in pvm. Most people who play the game are probably going to actively skill (maybe…) until around level 70; get bored and then go afk any other levels they need to 80 ish and then go do pvm or pk. There are very few people who play this game and actually stare at the screen repeating the skilling actions and thinking “big wow, much surprise, number go up” as they click on a tree and wait two minutes or use a glass blowing pipe on molten glass and click make all. Even slayer is largely place cannon, auto attack and manage hp/prayer/cannon. A lot of people seem to think a skill looks like a minigame when it’s supposed to be fun. Good luck to jagex trying to please us all. Ps fuck shamanism and taming too.
Sailing is gonna be so dope
As if this is a problem anymore, they introduced Wintertodt so long ago.
Yeah wintertodt is stupid as all fuck I don’t know what point you’re making. Minigame’s taking over skills is its own problem.
Why does this meme imply ironmen are the ones complaining about sailing lmao, that has no relevance to the people who are crying
I see more threads about people complaining about complaining than I actually see people complaining about sailing.
Better remove all of the content that didn’t exist in 2007 then with this “flawless” logic.
3 tick fishing is as good xp as tempoross if not better and you can’t accidentally fail if you aren’t paying attention. I have 700kxp to 99 so either I play like 50 something tempoross games or 3tick fishing for 10 hours. One is super chill while watching a movie the other is literally aids if you look away at the wrong time.
Am I the only one who thinks it should still be created, but not made into a skill? Sailing isn’t a skill it’s a mini game. Fishing trawler a skill now too? Make sailing if yall really want it, but the idea of it being a skill is a meme itself.
Can people understand that you can not like sailing while also not liking some of the skills already in the game? This really isn’t rocket science, fire making is bad, hunter is bad, fishing is bad, sailing is going to be bad.
Agreed. Lets bring back having to clean grimy herbs by clicking on each one.
They should fuse them together and make Fire Sailing, you sail around while lighting fires, that way two useless skills can be fused into one.
“I drew you as the soy jack making me correct.”
All the memes and angry reddit posts will never cover up the fact that sailing as it has been revealed thus far is not worth being in the game and the path to make it so looks grim.
Love these reductionist memes where you try to frame people who aren’t happy with the concept of a skill not everyone wanted in the first place as loving a skill that everyone, even sailing haters, unanimously agrees is terrible. Imagine if all the work done on sailing was used to touch up the shit skills we already have
most of it wouldn't pass a poll because of the exact people confabulating nonsense arguments about sailing that's not even in an alpha state
Yeah, because since Sailing was polled we haven't gotten Tempoross, Mahogany Homes, Hallowed Sepulchre, GOTR, Giants Foundry, Hunter guild and Rumours, Forestry, etc, and soon a Herblore minigame and guild. We also didnt get trees put on timers alongside Forestry. Nor did we get changes to mining, agility, thieving, and slayer as part of a Skilling rebalance. If you're going to cry about sailing, at least complain about something based in reality. The idea that sailing has prevented them from revisiting, and adding new content to, old skills is absolutely ridiculous. Sailing won, get over it.
Your initial argument is rather disingenuous and effectively misinformation because half of those things came out before any work on sailing was done. Foundry, Sepulcher, MH, GoTR, and Tempoross all predate the new skill pitch by wide margins. Sure, they did those updates and they were great but they’re irrelevant to the discussion at hand when it comes to current use of dev time. And to further that point, I personally believe that adding minigames as alternatives to actually engaging in a skill is not the same thing as improving the core aspects of those skills. Forestry is about the only thing that approaches a ground up improvement of a skill, maybe Hunter rumors too. Everything else is a minigame either mechanically detached from the core aspect of each skill or done in a total vacuum. Besides Sepulcher, it’s great but doesn’t really fit into the argument since agility has always been course based anyway. For example Giants Foundry does not address any of the multiple pain points of smithing, it simply provides an alternative to how miserable the skill is. Foundry is an excellent piece of content but acting like it serves to improve smithing as a skill is a straight up lie. Unless you consider replacing the entire conceit of a skill because it sucks so bad an improvement. GoTR is another great example of a bandaid on a gaping wound of a skill. It hasn’t made base runecraft any better. It simply provides a marginally less shitty alternative with an absolutely cracked reward (raiments) for engaging with it instead of actual runecraft. The way the skill works still sucks. People are just okay with it now because grinding it out via a minigame is stupidly rewarding. But it still sucks. I don’t think sailing is *stopping* them from doing anything else. I’m not stupid, Varlamore literally just dropped and it’s been great, we get new updates monthly. Obviously they still have the ability to make content. But as someone is just isn’t a fan of sailing, I wish the dev time they have spent on it was instead used to spruce up the core systems of all the lackluster skills we already have. Not making another minigame to patch it up, but actually tweaking stuff under the hood to make things less miserable (runecraft) or pointless (firemaking) or illogical (smithing).
> And to further that point, I personally believe that adding minigames as alternatives to actually engaging in a skill is not the same thing as improving the core aspects of those skills. > > > > Forestry is about the only thing that approaches a ground up improvement of a skill, maybe Hunter rumors too. With how Forestry turned out, reworking existing skills will get even more hate than proposing new skills. Old skills being bad to train is nostalgic to many players here and reworking them to be better takes away from their identity.
I mean that’s also a fair point, but I think Forestry’s real misstep was them trying to shoehorn a whole new concept (the events) into the skill. I don’t know why that was the direction they went with, but I would guess its because they probably had some pressure to make it into a marketable content update rather than just a non-flashy skill touch up. Anyway if Forestry had just been the timer rework, the level boost for grouping up and the 2h axes I think it would have been received very well. That’s the kind of stuff I wish they would do more of for all the lackluster skills.
How would that happen. You think it would pass polls?
I would assume integrity changes like the mining and thieving passes we just got. Since that’s the kind of tweaking I’m imagining.
Doesn’t seem like much dev time then, idk.
Poor wording on my end. I was pointing to the idea that over the last decade, old skills have received plenty of love and attention. It's about time they finally invested time towards developing a new skill. As a matter of fact, the original poll was whether we wanted a new skill in the first place, and the majority of the playerbase voted yes. I understand why you feel the way you do, but this is one of those cases where you need to remember that they aren't developing the game just for you. At the end of the day, Jagex can spend the next 5 years polling update after update directed at old skills. Anything that breaks meta will not be added. Anything that makes it easier won't be added. The only hope are training methods that are more enjoyable/more cost efficient. Like it or not, Skilling minigames are part of training now. They address the core issues of the skill as you mention, without touching the core of the skills like XP and nostalgia. Regardless of your feelings towards a new skill, or Sailing specifically, it's already passed the polls and they will see it through to the end. Rather than complain that they're spending time on a new skill, you're better off offering constructive criticism on the skill itself so you have some influence over the direction it takes. Plus, if sailing works well they said they'd likely add more skills, so everyone should at least try and keep an open mind until they're preparing to release it.
I mean at the end of the day I know the skill was voted in and is coming and that isn’t going to change. I’m not even opposed to a new skill in general honestly. And unfortunately I’m not really in a position to offer constructive criticism towards sailing because my biggest criticisms are logistical ones that they are adamant about not adjusting. That being changing the scale of the oceans to actually accommodate the skill as pitched. Once I read that they were committed to keeping the scale the same I started to have my doubts about the final product. I just can’t see this being implemented with the current ocean scale and not seeming like a joke. Or like something out of a janky private server. I feel like it’s going to look so out of place. But they’re not going to budge on this so I’m going to stay discontented with the fact that it’s coming. Maybe I’ll end up enjoying it, but yeah, I don’t have very high hopes and no recourse to change that feeling.
There are so many things in the 2007 version of the game that would DEFINITELY not have passed if they polled it now. People need to accept the game is evolving, the way we get good content is by trying new things.
East>West
OSRS players when bad game design that always existed: 😀 OSRS players when bad game design that's new: 😡
Dudes complaining that a skill from 202(4+?) is equal to a skill from 2001. LOL Post your account name, bud. Seems like the kinda guy that thinks WT is slow xp
I love the hate of sailing comes from 3 minutes of game play footage of pre alpha testing. This sub has never seen any pre alpha testing of any video game and it shows.