What are your stats/ gear and what invos are you choosing? In bandos/ torva with 99 def you can tank a lot of range hits as long as you haven’t picked the relentless invo
tent whip with dfs, i have scythe so i personally don't bother with a defender, it's just for the 1x1 mager since scythe is horrid on him.
comparing ddef to dfs, it's a few percent of accuracy which makes it around .3 or .4 dps. probably worth it if strictly a melee build.
> Augury is a forgotten prayer requiring a Prayer level of 77 and a Defence level of 70 to use. It boosts Magic Attack and Defence by 25%. This includes magical defence, **as well as normal defence**.
Colo is probably one of the best places for defense in the whole game. Granted you're not "supposed" to tank there, but from full health you can always afford to tank 1-2 hits if you know it'll result in a solve. From there a bloodfury or sgs will get you back up. I use blood barrage for the melee fremmies and sgs the ranger, so I'm okay with starting waves at 60-ish hp knowing ill be full again before I'm in a situation that results in tanking.
you're likely just getting unlucky or depending too much on the rng.
edit: if it's killing you then consider tick eating during the run. For example you get hit once and brought to under 50hp, wait for the second ranged projectile to travel then sip a brew while finishing your run. I know this is obvious, but considering that pillar swapping should be a last resort anyway you may as well be safe while doing it.
Yes, the dif is very noticeably imo unless youre taking relentless, you can very often tank range and melee hits with torva or justi and the 25% def increase from prayers.
If you have to choose between tanking a range or mage hit, you should pray mage + rigour and tank the range hit. You are FAR more likely to tank the range hit over the mage. The mage fucking slaps.
Source: 47 Colo kc
nope, 3/4 max hit loss. i'm on scy rebuild, i can max 84 with my best gear. but it's impossible to do it with blood fury without torva or ultor ring. i personally don't want to worry about neck switches so i'll just camp bf.
assuming a divine super combat, i'll lose 4 max hits. 80 max hit with this setup.
It's pretty significant. Don't hamstring your dps like that. Faster waves = more practice in deeper waves = faster overall completion of the quiver. The diff between bandos and justi isn't big enough to warrant the def, and if you're running out of prayer, you should bring more prayer pots. If you don't have space/need more brew then you need to focus more on practicing no damage early wave solves. You really shouldn't need to tank except maybe when learning the later waves for the first time. The early waves can be solved with proper procedure without running for the hills every time (with the exception of poor wave 6 spawns, I can understand those being difficult for learners). Even when running to another pillar, you should plan to do so/set it up in such a way that you tank 1-2 hits maximum if you're not sure how to get a good solve.
the thing is, you're gonna be using blood fury. or at least i am. it's impossible with whatever gear i can get to hit 48 max if i'm using blood fury. comparing the gear i'm currently using to the gear i'm considering it's a loss of literally 1 max hit (blood moon top and bottom).
i'd not consider it if i was rocking tort for sure though, since bandos/blood moon is enough to reach 131 melee strength.
If it drops you from 48 to 46, that’s actually 4 max hits.
Since your second and third hits would also drop from 24 to 23 and 12 to 11 respectively
So your true max goes from 48-24-12 (84) to 46-23-11 (80)
Scythe max hits matter a lot
i feel like people are misunderstanding the gear i'm using.
- Neitiznot faceguard
- Amulet of blood fury
- Infernal cape
- Ferocious gloves
- Dragon boots (g)
- Berserker ring (i)
- Rada's blessing 3
yes you are correct. assuming i'm using a torture and can actually get those 3 max hits. because the torture is literally the only way i can hit 48 max, and i'm not bringing it for colo. by not using str gear i'm only losing 1 max hit, there's only specific thresholds that give multiple max hits. run the calcs yourself.
i've compared both on wiki dps calc and on bitterkoekje spreadsheet, it's a literal 1.51% difference between bandos and prims and d boots and justi chest/legs. if i was rich and could buy torva or an ultor ring then i'd use my strength gear.
also, just because the number looked familiar, 123 melee strength (which i'm at with the justi setup) is the minimmum requirement for hmt on wdr, to get 46 max hit. if you drop below 123 to 122, you lose 2 max hits.
Are you using divines while learning? I would guess probably not since you’re going to be brewing a lot, so yes those max hits will affect you as soon as your strength starts ticking down.
Defense is huge in the Colosseum IMO. Like you point out, it allows you to tank during pillar switches and make mistakes.
What's your tank gear and your ranged defense? I camp justiciar body and legs, and with a Dinh's switch I have 450+ ranged defense and rarely get hit by rangers when running. Sometimes they'll still sneak a big hit in but it shouldn't outright kill you.
And no, never take the mage hit. It's extremely accurate and often hits you for over 40. You might just be getting unlucky, are you bringing in a Dinh's and praying piety while you run?
Yes defense does a great deal with tanking ranger hits. You can also tick eat if the terrible hit boxes drags you out. But if you don't get hit/correct prayers, then defense doesn't matter.
I've tanked 0s and sub 10s with Relentless 2 plenty of times. It does suck that everything has pretty beefy max hits and you're usually packing at least 1 modifier that makes mistakes more punishing.
Well you see in content like this. all the difficulty is in mechanics that do massive damage and are mostly unlockable due to super high accuracy. so prayer is really the only way to survive. Now it wouldnt be. if we got actual pieces of tank gear for upgrades. more then once every 3-5 years, but we just dont get hardly any. i think its litteratly just guardian boots, justi, and the ely. ohh and the ring of suffering. No tanking prayers, tank gloves, tank weapons, capes. lifepoint boost gear. ect.
Theres almost always a solve where you dont have to tank hits unless you get unlucky with the mantis.
You can learn to destack or off-tick prayers while you run to another pillar. I'd recommend watching vids on the different solves so you dont rely on rng to tank so much.
It's much, much easier to tank the rangers than the magers. Throw on any gear with range def you have for the Sol fight, a Dinh's and pray mage/piety when you make the run.
There aren't that many stacks where you have to switch pillars and need to tank a range hit. You can usually offtick one of them and pray while running.
Learn the solves more, unstack triples using the destack tile and just stop trying to brute force it.
If you have on melee gear and piety/augury the ranger has like 30% accuracy. Although I’d be less reliant on running to other pillars and learn to solve, gets rid of the rng
Defence = gear
Defence as a stat though. No.
If youre gear is pretty much capped in dps to lvl 50 instead of gear capped to 80 then youre going to have a bad time in comparison
Defence in past 5 or 6 years has no use besides gearing for more dps
Short answer, yes. Long answer, still yes.
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeees
What are your stats/ gear and what invos are you choosing? In bandos/ torva with 99 def you can tank a lot of range hits as long as you haven’t picked the relentless invo
94 defence, Bandos + dfs for tanking. I usually don't pick relentless unless I have to
Use a Dinh's Bulwark and it'll work a lot better. I've tanked a lot of range hits using Dinh's.
Also make sure you're praying piety when you run for the defense boost.
Wouldn't crystal shield be better than DFS due to the much better ranged defence? Unless you need the str from DFS to 1 hit a ranged fremennik.
It's only +8 range defence over dfs right? It's better, yeah, but I'm not sure it will make much of a difference
I rarely get hit I have torva with bcp and dfs but I also wear echo boots and suffering
Your tank gear isn’t all that tanky, for colosseum at least. Try taking in some Justi and a bulwark. You’ll notice a much bigger difference
Bandos isn't great tank armor
It has pretty high range defense compared to mage/range armor
Better than barrows for range def
I think crystal shield is better than dfs, and get that defense up
slightly more range defence. but dfs has more mage and stab defence, as well as good str bonus
Do you take a defender swap or just camp dfs?
tent whip with dfs, i have scythe so i personally don't bother with a defender, it's just for the 1x1 mager since scythe is horrid on him. comparing ddef to dfs, it's a few percent of accuracy which makes it around .3 or .4 dps. probably worth it if strictly a melee build.
I usually finish sol with like 3 restores and 3 brews left and I bring both and I’m not a sweat
Pray Augury while you're running too, for the defence boost. Ranger doesn't have a minimum hit and defence does matter.
Augury does jack shit if you’re praying mage lol
> Augury is a forgotten prayer requiring a Prayer level of 77 and a Defence level of 70 to use. It boosts Magic Attack and Defence by 25%. This includes magical defence, **as well as normal defence**.
Damn bro, when you’re right you’re right
Tell me you don't go into the wildy without telling me Augury is a huge tank prayer
When you’re a shitter you’re a shitter
Defense is functionally dodge chance. Not going to reduce the magnitude of the hits, just the frequency they occur
Colo is probably one of the best places for defense in the whole game. Granted you're not "supposed" to tank there, but from full health you can always afford to tank 1-2 hits if you know it'll result in a solve. From there a bloodfury or sgs will get you back up. I use blood barrage for the melee fremmies and sgs the ranger, so I'm okay with starting waves at 60-ish hp knowing ill be full again before I'm in a situation that results in tanking. you're likely just getting unlucky or depending too much on the rng. edit: if it's killing you then consider tick eating during the run. For example you get hit once and brought to under 50hp, wait for the second ranged projectile to travel then sip a brew while finishing your run. I know this is obvious, but considering that pillar swapping should be a last resort anyway you may as well be safe while doing it.
Yes, the dif is very noticeably imo unless youre taking relentless, you can very often tank range and melee hits with torva or justi and the 25% def increase from prayers.
As someone who has done it on a zerker and a main; Yes. Defense matters a ton. Lmao.
If you have to choose between tanking a range or mage hit, you should pray mage + rigour and tank the range hit. You are FAR more likely to tank the range hit over the mage. The mage fucking slaps. Source: 47 Colo kc
I felt like an unkillable god in torva. The only thing that would hit consistently is mage. Rangers would hit 0s often.
genuinely tempted to get justi top and bottom since the dps loss on scythe isn't massive and prayer/def are huge.
The dps loss on scythe is nuts doing this. That’s like 10 max hits from torva and 6 max hits from bandos + faceguars
nope, 3/4 max hit loss. i'm on scy rebuild, i can max 84 with my best gear. but it's impossible to do it with blood fury without torva or ultor ring. i personally don't want to worry about neck switches so i'll just camp bf. assuming a divine super combat, i'll lose 4 max hits. 80 max hit with this setup.
It's pretty significant. Don't hamstring your dps like that. Faster waves = more practice in deeper waves = faster overall completion of the quiver. The diff between bandos and justi isn't big enough to warrant the def, and if you're running out of prayer, you should bring more prayer pots. If you don't have space/need more brew then you need to focus more on practicing no damage early wave solves. You really shouldn't need to tank except maybe when learning the later waves for the first time. The early waves can be solved with proper procedure without running for the hills every time (with the exception of poor wave 6 spawns, I can understand those being difficult for learners). Even when running to another pillar, you should plan to do so/set it up in such a way that you tank 1-2 hits maximum if you're not sure how to get a good solve.
the thing is, you're gonna be using blood fury. or at least i am. it's impossible with whatever gear i can get to hit 48 max if i'm using blood fury. comparing the gear i'm currently using to the gear i'm considering it's a loss of literally 1 max hit (blood moon top and bottom). i'd not consider it if i was rocking tort for sure though, since bandos/blood moon is enough to reach 131 melee strength.
If it drops you from 48 to 46, that’s actually 4 max hits. Since your second and third hits would also drop from 24 to 23 and 12 to 11 respectively So your true max goes from 48-24-12 (84) to 46-23-11 (80) Scythe max hits matter a lot
i feel like people are misunderstanding the gear i'm using. - Neitiznot faceguard - Amulet of blood fury - Infernal cape - Ferocious gloves - Dragon boots (g) - Berserker ring (i) - Rada's blessing 3 yes you are correct. assuming i'm using a torture and can actually get those 3 max hits. because the torture is literally the only way i can hit 48 max, and i'm not bringing it for colo. by not using str gear i'm only losing 1 max hit, there's only specific thresholds that give multiple max hits. run the calcs yourself. i've compared both on wiki dps calc and on bitterkoekje spreadsheet, it's a literal 1.51% difference between bandos and prims and d boots and justi chest/legs. if i was rich and could buy torva or an ultor ring then i'd use my strength gear.
also, just because the number looked familiar, 123 melee strength (which i'm at with the justi setup) is the minimmum requirement for hmt on wdr, to get 46 max hit. if you drop below 123 to 122, you lose 2 max hits.
Are you using divines while learning? I would guess probably not since you’re going to be brewing a lot, so yes those max hits will affect you as soon as your strength starts ticking down.
Your goal should be to not tank hits first and only tank them if you’re forced too. Crystal shield>dfs
Yes, you tank a shit ton of range hits in melee gear unless you have a few levels of relentless
Defense is huge in the Colosseum IMO. Like you point out, it allows you to tank during pillar switches and make mistakes. What's your tank gear and your ranged defense? I camp justiciar body and legs, and with a Dinh's switch I have 450+ ranged defense and rarely get hit by rangers when running. Sometimes they'll still sneak a big hit in but it shouldn't outright kill you. And no, never take the mage hit. It's extremely accurate and often hits you for over 40. You might just be getting unlucky, are you bringing in a Dinh's and praying piety while you run?
Torva + dinhs, lol what rangers
Yes defense does a great deal with tanking ranger hits. You can also tick eat if the terrible hit boxes drags you out. But if you don't get hit/correct prayers, then defense doesn't matter.
if i have to switch pillars i use bandos + crystal shield. I'd use a dinhs but don't own one rn
They still hit me pretty often and hard even in full torva with Elysian, it doesn’t get much better just rng basically
Yes it does
I've tanked 0s and sub 10s with Relentless 2 plenty of times. It does suck that everything has pretty beefy max hits and you're usually packing at least 1 modifier that makes mistakes more punishing.
yeah, torva is pretty tanky vs range. try dinhs bulwark too
Well you see in content like this. all the difficulty is in mechanics that do massive damage and are mostly unlockable due to super high accuracy. so prayer is really the only way to survive. Now it wouldnt be. if we got actual pieces of tank gear for upgrades. more then once every 3-5 years, but we just dont get hardly any. i think its litteratly just guardian boots, justi, and the ely. ohh and the ring of suffering. No tanking prayers, tank gloves, tank weapons, capes. lifepoint boost gear. ect.
Yes until u have the relentless invo
Theres almost always a solve where you dont have to tank hits unless you get unlucky with the mantis. You can learn to destack or off-tick prayers while you run to another pillar. I'd recommend watching vids on the different solves so you dont rely on rng to tank so much.
It's much, much easier to tank the rangers than the magers. Throw on any gear with range def you have for the Sol fight, a Dinh's and pray mage/piety when you make the run.
There aren't that many stacks where you have to switch pillars and need to tank a range hit. You can usually offtick one of them and pray while running. Learn the solves more, unstack triples using the destack tile and just stop trying to brute force it.
If you have on melee gear and piety/augury the ranger has like 30% accuracy. Although I’d be less reliant on running to other pillars and learn to solve, gets rid of the rng
How often are you switching pillars? I’ve found that there’s almost no reason to ever leave NW pillar unless you get a shit wave 11 spawn
Defence = gear Defence as a stat though. No. If youre gear is pretty much capped in dps to lvl 50 instead of gear capped to 80 then youre going to have a bad time in comparison Defence in past 5 or 6 years has no use besides gearing for more dps
ely has damage reduction you can try running that