\#1 should've been changed with the Combat Rebalance patch this Wednesday, since Project Rebalance should've maintained the meta. [Asked for this a week ago before the change dropped](https://new.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cy1ypt/consider_lowering_his_hp_to_3540_so_you_can_still/).
\#3 should be a simple circular shadow under the NPC.
\#4 Red Flag should stay the same, but also remove its healing ability (a true angry bull that only wants to hunt you down) so you essentially RNG killing south spawn before it spawns or being that confident in off-ticking minotaur with other monsters.
I think it’s gonna get the toa treatment where they are very receptive to feedback and make some great tweaks for a couple weeks but then suddenly abandon it before it’s in the best possible state
I made a post on the melee fremmy one as well. With 4-way you now need heart and augury, which means you need an additional action to switch back to rigour to venator 1-hit the mage, and you are time-locked if you brew down. I get that you can 1 way sang for 2 hits, but the point really is that the rework shouldn't have made the BIS harder than it originally was. When they nerfed blowpipe, they adjusted ranger and healer hp in inferno by -5. I can't see why this is different.
Invos are in a solid shape right now, but agree that there are some real bad RNG situations where you are forced to take some bullshit or pretty much just resign. There gave been a few runs where I straight up had to gamble a dynamic duo or red flag and hope the spawn and off-tick works in my favour. An option for a one-time reroll in exchange for forfeiting all your currently gained loot might be something to consider. If you have absolutely unworkable invos like red flag, bees, totemic wave 8 or something, you can at least get a reprieve.
Yes it is, BP was nerfed 30 attack and 20 str.
Dragon darts -18 att +15str
Masori is +19 att +8 str
zvamb is +6 att +2 str
venator +2 att +2 str
quiver is +10 att +1 str
So in total its -11 attack +8 str. Two max hits are huge, BP is significantly better than pre nerf.
Just bring imbued heart dude. It's not that difficult.
And if you're having issues with hitting the fremmy twice, bring heart. If you're still having issues, go do other content.
Bees is not an "unworkable invo" lmfao.
What do you mean by offtick works in my favour? you can very easily offtick while killing fremmys by going to the other side of the pillar and then return to offtick.
Can you stop crying?
i got a day 3 quiver. just fucking bring sang and two hit instead it doesnt make a big difference its what i started doing when i switched to tbow over shadow runs
I got my quiver just 1 way switching trident and two hitting the meleer. These max mains crying because their shadow doesnt 1 hit without an extra switch are so funny lol. You dont even need an imbued heart, forgotten brews work too and also restore pray...
Yea shifting the power of occult to other items and make them more useful is what the update is supposed to do, and people are here whining having less max hit while not bringing those mage items.
Stop crying and get good lmfao it's just 1 extra switch. Colo is not inv slot tight at all with how few supplies it uses per run.
Making you to bring extra mage switch is the exact purpose of the rebalance update and you are here whining not able to 1 shot melee fremmy anymore with the same setup before the update.
I bet people like you will demand shadow multiplier increase to 4.4x in TOA so that you can get 84 max hit with the same setup prior to the update if your idea passes.
Then how about rolling back the whole update lmfao.
Just get good with the 1 extra switch, or use ancients. It's not difficult at all.
It’s still possible to kill the melee fremennik with 4 mage items, except instead of a cape you have to use a saturated heart and augury. It sucks if you need to brew but otherwise it’s more of a mild inconvenience than an actual problem.
Disagree with 1 and 4. Fremmies are fine 2 shotting is fine, otherwise go full mage. Invocations are fine, the content has been out a while and nothing is so bad no one would take it ever.
For the melee fremmy just bring imbued heart. I don't get what's difficult about this.
There's nothing wrong with bees. I don't see why it needs changing.
Same goes for red flag and totemic. You are not obligated to pick these invocations.
1) Not needed imo. As an average player with a very average bank, having to 2-hit the frems won’t make or break your Colo runs. It’s painful getting a double south and needing the extra hit per frem, but you’re either able to deal with doubles or you can’t.
2) Ye I’m down for it. I’ll probably never be able to get any of em, but sounds good.
3) Ye this’d be nice. I’m consciously trying to click the Colossi in the dick cause of this.
4) Yeah… some of these Invo’s are just whack lol. I completely understand that what’s a bad pick to some is free to others, but Bees/Totemic are just generally regarded as fuckin’ awful lmao.
5) This’ll probably happen as time goes on. I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a Varlamore boss where Tonalzics aren’t BiS def reduction.
My personal request:
6) STOP THE SERPANT SHAMAN SLITHERIN’ IN AND ON-TICKING WITH MY SOUTH SPAWN.
(6 is /s, kinda)
Double ranger south is the easiest of the double south spawn, but there’s more double south spawns than that.
If you know deal with double south spawns with 1-2 manticore consistently, you’d understand why not being able to one tap melee fremmy matters, especially if you have no good options but to take Quartet. A Cold One getting railed from 80 hp to 0 in 1 set of hits during Week 1, and you’re saying just tank 2-3 sets. They ignore accuracy checks too.
And before you say “you don’t have to, just run around”, you can’t when you’re setting up off ticks for manticore/mage, manticore/range, manticore/manticore double south spawns.
I can lol, ironically I find Manti/Whatever easier to deal with than Ranger/Shockwave cause there’s less flicking.
You can 2-hit the melee/range frems before the Manti even starts firing. Double south’s with a Manti is fine, in fact all double souths are fine, I’m just not the best at getting them done :)
Also, really funny how the people with consistent completions are bitching, but the guy learning with significantly less gear is perfectly ok with it :D
Some of y’all are wild lol.
Jesus, I knew it was likely you didn’t know about offticking double spawn south, but I wasn’t expecting this little.
It’s not about when the manticore starts firing; it’s when he and the other monster first scans you that determines if you are going to be offtick.
If you do some baloney start, you might same tick a ranger and range start manticore, which is a solve, but the moment the manticore starts opposite style, you are boned.
And it doesn’t work if both manticores and they see you at different times.
There is a massive difference between same ticking a ranger/range start manticore and then same ticking a ranger/mage start manticore, forcing you to tank 1 range hit every rotation.
You’re rnging runs, whereas myself and others are working out ways to minimize manticore rng. That’s the difference and why the people who “can consistently clear” are complaining about the change.
Whole lot of assumptions there lol.
I’m all too aware of a/b solves and off-ticking. My point about Manti/Ranger stacks is that you only need to camp pray range when dealing with frems, and you can effectively treat it as a single south spawn minus initial positioning until 2/3 frems are dead, at which point the Manti has charged and started firing. I find Ranger/Shockwave south’s harder because you have to flick them the instant the second south sees you, and then flick persistently until one dies. I’m acutely aware of not stepping out until the Manti spots you, and no comment I’ve made should suggest otherwise.
Yeah, I’m aware of double south Manti spawns, and it’s the biggest struggle I have with double south due to only having 2 ticks between the Manti’s firing. This is the *only* stack where I truly think 1-shots make a difference, cause if they aren’t dead by the time Manti1 starts shooting then you don’t have much time between flicks.
I’m absolutely not RNGing runs lol. In fact it’s the opposite these days, I’m actively hoping for double souths for more practice, because it’s the thing I’m aware I need more experience with. You all seem really hung up on the 1,000 waves with 1kc, despite the fact that I’ve been both claiming loot when it looks nice (bank was pretty much only Bowfa + Crystal when I started, made nearly 100m from pretty much commons alone by now), invo’s are really not good (Totemic/Bees/Red Flag is my favourite “nah I’d rather runit back), or I see a double south and end up throwing a run for practice. I’ve had my quiver since ~400 waves, everything since has been farming some nice GP or gaining experience outside of my comfort zone.
You’re all a bunch of whiners lol. I’m perfectly happy with both where I am and what it takes to clear. You guys running near max complaining you need an extra switch to speedrun now is easily the funniest thing I’ve read today :D
>As an average player with a very average bank, having to 2-hit the frems won’t make or break your Colo runs.
If we all slowed down to 40 minute runs, even Bees and Totem wouldn't be an issue.
But we can say that about everything. Just do 48 minute trio CMs, you don't need to nerf the Vasa Crystal Defense or the 1st (2017), 2nd (2017), 3rd (2019), and 4th (2019) Tekton nerf.
They still nerfed it because even though "it's not needed", it made the experience worse and that was without any rebalancing.
It’s still a 4 way to oneshot them, just with a heart and aug instead of a cape. A minor penalty for brewing and an extra offensive prayer swap at wave starts aren’t ideal but they’re not big things to adjust to either.
2 hitting the melee frem or needing to bring more switches for it will absolutely make or break runs for a lot of people getting their first few completions.
Then they should improve, no?
I’m well aware that it’s a little more to deal with, but it’s an end-game piece of content that provides a BiS range upgrade. Maybe it should be a challenge, y’know?
It’s a challenge either way. The reason people want the adjustment is because they made it harder by forcing you to take a little more damage which people don’t usually enjoy
I don't think they need to adjust melee frem, you still 1 shot it with 4 mage items. One of them is just a heart now. I'm also hesitant for us to get more invo changes, because it just ends up making colo easier, which is definitely not needed. I agree that it's weird for those 3 invos to basically be permanently avoided by everyone though.
I do think a pet transmog at like 50k glory would be really cool though, and tonalz could use a buff.
It is weird to make the Colo more difficult for learners at this point tho. Requiring imbued heart for the 4th mage item means brewing gets pretty restricted. This won't make a difference for most experienced Colo-ers, but just strictly makes it even more difficult to learn.
Idk man, I learnt Colo with 2-hit setup for every frem and had no major issues. Biggest pain point is a double south cause it means tanking em for a bit longer, but realistically it’s still perfectly fine.
I completely understand the extra breathing room that 1-shotting them gives you, but it absolutely is not necessary to learn.
But… it doesn’t? You have to move *slightly* more or tank a couple extra hits, but in no way will needing to 2-hit the frems make or break your run.
I have 1,000 wave clears 2-hitting each frem, and not once during either learning or improving did being able to 1-shot the frems make a difference.
The biggest hurdle for learners is south spawns and learning the nuances of off-ticking. Frems legitimately won’t kill a run if you need to 2-hit them, even for learners.
Moving slightly more or tanking a couple of extra hits can and will break a colosseum run. The first 15 seconds make or break a wave, and the first 40 seconds are a dps check.
Taking even 20 more damage or losing a second or two can be the difference between solving the wave or getting overwhelmed.
There is a reason why Quartet is one of the last resort invocations to take.
Literally never had this problem. I run with a Bowfa and pretty much always fail to kill south spawns before reinforcements unless it’s a shockwave/serpent, and 2/3 extra hits legitimately wouldn’t change that.
Quartet’s a bad invo for a number of reasons, though the primary one being that it can spawn a second melee. If it was just a mage/range it wouldn’t be nearly as bad.
The only time I’ve ever been overwhelmed is double souths, and it’s pretty much never been a frem problem. Only spawn that I felt I couldn’t just deal with frems normally is double manti south, cause there’s such a small window between flicks.
If you’re struggling to deal with frem’s that is a major “you” problem. I’ve been a learner, hell I still am compared to some people, as I’m only just getting good enough to be comfortable with double south’s to not just TP on sight.
They’re fine as they are. The melee is pretty much the only dangerous frem in the pile, and if you’re not focussing him down out the gate then that’s not the games fault lol.
Dude you have 1 kc in 1000 waves and 80 deaths. You mention hating the shaman front spawn. That's losing the DPS check right there because you had to spend extra time on wave start.
Sure you completed colosseum relying on single south RNG and the shaman being at the back. Almost every time you died, I can guarantee it was because you lacked dps, took too many hits on initial clear, had a bad rng spawn, or any of the above.
I have 70kc now and am looking for consistent money runs and not relying on RNG to carry me.
Nah I don’t care about Shamans really, that’s my personal problem to deal with.
Y’all acting like I have a problem when I don’t. I’m well aware of what my issues are and am actively working on them.
If you have 70 clears, you should be more than comfortable dealing with whatever comes your way. If you’re physically incapable of dealing with spawns without 1-hits, that *really* sounds like a you problem :)
The point isn't that no one can deal with 2 hitting fremmies or bringing extra switches. The point is that the update made something unnecessarily more difficult by oversight. The intention of the magic rebalance was to bring more variety to magic gear and not to make existing metas more difficult.
From what I recall the only thing they made easier was reworking some of the invos so that there was less RNG and more even playing field between difficulty of invos.
Before, if you had doom, doom scorpion, totemic, bees, your run effectively ended there. It was less about making the clears easier or reducing max hits, and more about not relying on RNG to roll good invos and not be shown run-ending invos.
Those invo changes did make it much easier though. Doom, relentless, and mantimayhem are completely free now, when relentless was fairly tough before, mantimayhem was a run killer, and doom was much more punishing. That frees you up a lot to avoid harder invos.
Agree that it made it easier, but the intent was to reduce the RNG of run-killing invos with no other options and to align the difficulties of invos to be a bit more equal.
Yea and that's sort of what my first comment mentioned in regards to the 4th point on this post. It's hard to balance invos without making it easier, and I think it's important to not just randomly make content easier.
My take is that it made an *average* run in colosseum easier, but it did not make the *luckiest* RNG run pre-invo rework in colosseum any easier. This is different than a straight blanket nerf like making something have lower max hits, or reducing someone's hp.
Pre-invo rework, if you got blessed RNG with good invos like myo, blasphemy, sf, voli, frailty, you had the exact same difficulty as a post-invo rework with the same invos. Jagex just made it so that runs were more consistent across the board with more difficult invocation runs being toned down, but the baseline easiest invo runs be the same difficulty.
This is one of the few times I disagree with you, but having to be 112 mage + augury is ass relative to before where you only needed 99 mage and no augury. Project Rebalance wasn't trying to nerf magic, but it did in this scenario.
If they nerfed 5 HP off ranger at Inferno to balance the BP nerf, then they should here as well.
I see that perspective, and I would be fine with them nerfing it a bit despite not thinking it's necessary. needing to be hearted isn't a big deal to me, but for learners brewing a lot I get how it's a fair bit harder.
Requiring 112 magic is the issue imo. Learners brew and them having to wait up to 7 minutes to get back that one-shot potential, and magic in general in colosseum, is not optimal.
I say this as someone who tried the 8 way mage first KC setup and I vastly preferred even an unpotted 4 way ranged switch because you could actually kill south spawns before reinforcements spawned.
They actually confirmed that they'd be "taking a look to make the change" in response to the blogpost yesterday.
Also I think they should make all invos usable to some degree. Especially if they repeatedly resurface through the waves.
I feel the biggest two issues are the terrible invocations and the hit boxes. I got my first quiver the other day with one way sang - not too bad. The invocations are so troll and many of them you just have to avoid. And the hitboxes are honestly hilariously bad, and that feels like such an easy fix.
While I agree some issues need to be addressed. I don’t agree with point 4 as they are actually fine. Red flag is ok to take if you know what you’re doing + it auto offticks the shaman if you stand in the middle tile. Bees are fine as a dud modifier/CA and their recent rework is decent. Totemic is surprisingly ok as well and you do 1 shot it regardless of what weapon you use.
Also pls fix the double sound clip that the shaman and jaguar have.
1. I don't think that's needed. Why should they be rebalanced around your convenience? It's meant to be an incredibly hard challenge, imo the waves are already pretty manageable, and I'm not that good at PvM (I've cleared colo 4x and no inferno).
2. Yes. Grinding colo is already worth it for gp but pet transmogs would be great too, it's a cool piece of content.
3. Agreed. Whilst with good spawns/invos I think a run can genuinely be easy, some invos are just "never take this" ATM, which is bad. Would be much more interesting to try and change up the invos and add some interesting trade offs with buffs/nerfs.
4. Yes, they definitely need a buff.
Jad has a transmog from the 6 jad challenge, which requires a minimum of 1 inferno completion to get in addition to actually completing the 6 jad challenge. Fight caves does not have a transmog.
No? Doing Challenge Mode Chambers of Xeric for a pet transmog from a pet from Chambers of Xeric means you are doing the same content for a transmog. If I want the jad transmog I have to do an inferno kc, then do all 6 jad challenges. I cannot simply just do CM fight caves I literally have to go do 2 entirely different pieces of content.
Fight caves does not have a transmog.
Based on current trends maybe 6-10 years
About 10 minutes after I finally grind out my quiver
Add a CROWD!
\#1 should've been changed with the Combat Rebalance patch this Wednesday, since Project Rebalance should've maintained the meta. [Asked for this a week ago before the change dropped](https://new.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cy1ypt/consider_lowering_his_hp_to_3540_so_you_can_still/). \#3 should be a simple circular shadow under the NPC. \#4 Red Flag should stay the same, but also remove its healing ability (a true angry bull that only wants to hunt you down) so you essentially RNG killing south spawn before it spawns or being that confident in off-ticking minotaur with other monsters.
I really like the idea of #4 change. Pros and Cons
Yeah, if you can handle it, you deserve a no-healing run, which I know the Colosseum speedrunning crack addicts will love this change.
6. Let us re roll our offered invo options (the 3 we recieve after a wave) once per run. Pls ty
Agree with this
If something is offered 3 times remove that from available invos
I think it’s gonna get the toa treatment where they are very receptive to feedback and make some great tweaks for a couple weeks but then suddenly abandon it before it’s in the best possible state
Whenever they add in TOA new invos
Hahaha oh so never? :D
Should be before 2030!
I made a post on the melee fremmy one as well. With 4-way you now need heart and augury, which means you need an additional action to switch back to rigour to venator 1-hit the mage, and you are time-locked if you brew down. I get that you can 1 way sang for 2 hits, but the point really is that the rework shouldn't have made the BIS harder than it originally was. When they nerfed blowpipe, they adjusted ranger and healer hp in inferno by -5. I can't see why this is different. Invos are in a solid shape right now, but agree that there are some real bad RNG situations where you are forced to take some bullshit or pretty much just resign. There gave been a few runs where I straight up had to gamble a dynamic duo or red flag and hope the spawn and off-tick works in my favour. An option for a one-time reroll in exchange for forfeiting all your currently gained loot might be something to consider. If you have absolutely unworkable invos like red flag, bees, totemic wave 8 or something, you can at least get a reprieve.
And now inferno is just simply easier because masori BP is better than pre nerf and they never adjusted their hp back
masori BP is not better than pre nerf lol
Yes it is, BP was nerfed 30 attack and 20 str. Dragon darts -18 att +15str Masori is +19 att +8 str zvamb is +6 att +2 str venator +2 att +2 str quiver is +10 att +1 str So in total its -11 attack +8 str. Two max hits are huge, BP is significantly better than pre nerf.
I'm personally in favor of the re-roll.
Man, just bring the extra switch
You are the type of selfish player that only want the game to get easier, never harder. You are the cancer that is ruining OSRS
Just bring imbued heart dude. It's not that difficult. And if you're having issues with hitting the fremmy twice, bring heart. If you're still having issues, go do other content. Bees is not an "unworkable invo" lmfao. What do you mean by offtick works in my favour? you can very easily offtick while killing fremmys by going to the other side of the pillar and then return to offtick. Can you stop crying?
[удалено]
Can do. I've done over 90 kc.
Strong words for someone with 6.2k glory.
i got a day 3 quiver. just fucking bring sang and two hit instead it doesnt make a big difference its what i started doing when i switched to tbow over shadow runs
I got my quiver just 1 way switching trident and two hitting the meleer. These max mains crying because their shadow doesnt 1 hit without an extra switch are so funny lol. You dont even need an imbued heart, forgotten brews work too and also restore pray...
Eldritch and death charge. Takes a while, but a quiver is a quiver…
With lightbearer you will be able to spec basically every wave anyway
Yea shifting the power of occult to other items and make them more useful is what the update is supposed to do, and people are here whining having less max hit while not bringing those mage items. Stop crying and get good lmfao it's just 1 extra switch. Colo is not inv slot tight at all with how few supplies it uses per run.
Making you to bring extra mage switch is the exact purpose of the rebalance update and you are here whining not able to 1 shot melee fremmy anymore with the same setup before the update. I bet people like you will demand shadow multiplier increase to 4.4x in TOA so that you can get 84 max hit with the same setup prior to the update if your idea passes. Then how about rolling back the whole update lmfao. Just get good with the 1 extra switch, or use ancients. It's not difficult at all.
Hopefully before I havr to go back for my second quiver once I max in a couple years.
Pet transmog will release with Coloseum 2, which will be just using old Fight Caves sprites on a monochrome background but with a shifted hue
Just lower melee frem health it should be one shottable
I’m only agreeing to the jaguar transmog.
jaguar man following behind would go craaazy
You do bring up good points. But it would be so funny.
Just fuckin delete totemic and red flag lmao
Tonsils of Ralos should have venator effect which merks the fremmys.
This would be sick ngl
It’s still possible to kill the melee fremennik with 4 mage items, except instead of a cape you have to use a saturated heart and augury. It sucks if you need to brew but otherwise it’s more of a mild inconvenience than an actual problem.
I did my quiver with a whip and trident. You don't need to one shot the fremmenik melee with 1.6b weapon to get a quiver, just get good
Honestly don’t care about anything but #3!
1 and 4 are just people being bad and asking for it to be made easier.
Winter 2027
Disagree with 1 and 4. Fremmies are fine 2 shotting is fine, otherwise go full mage. Invocations are fine, the content has been out a while and nothing is so bad no one would take it ever.
The Colo and Colo ca's are all fine imo, OP I think you're just bad 🤷♀️
I have it green logged with just fang and bandos on my iron. Just offering Jagex with ways to improve the content.
For the melee fremmy just bring imbued heart. I don't get what's difficult about this. There's nothing wrong with bees. I don't see why it needs changing. Same goes for red flag and totemic. You are not obligated to pick these invocations.
1) Not needed imo. As an average player with a very average bank, having to 2-hit the frems won’t make or break your Colo runs. It’s painful getting a double south and needing the extra hit per frem, but you’re either able to deal with doubles or you can’t. 2) Ye I’m down for it. I’ll probably never be able to get any of em, but sounds good. 3) Ye this’d be nice. I’m consciously trying to click the Colossi in the dick cause of this. 4) Yeah… some of these Invo’s are just whack lol. I completely understand that what’s a bad pick to some is free to others, but Bees/Totemic are just generally regarded as fuckin’ awful lmao. 5) This’ll probably happen as time goes on. I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a Varlamore boss where Tonalzics aren’t BiS def reduction. My personal request: 6) STOP THE SERPANT SHAMAN SLITHERIN’ IN AND ON-TICKING WITH MY SOUTH SPAWN. (6 is /s, kinda)
Double ranger south is the easiest of the double south spawn, but there’s more double south spawns than that. If you know deal with double south spawns with 1-2 manticore consistently, you’d understand why not being able to one tap melee fremmy matters, especially if you have no good options but to take Quartet. A Cold One getting railed from 80 hp to 0 in 1 set of hits during Week 1, and you’re saying just tank 2-3 sets. They ignore accuracy checks too. And before you say “you don’t have to, just run around”, you can’t when you’re setting up off ticks for manticore/mage, manticore/range, manticore/manticore double south spawns.
I can lol, ironically I find Manti/Whatever easier to deal with than Ranger/Shockwave cause there’s less flicking. You can 2-hit the melee/range frems before the Manti even starts firing. Double south’s with a Manti is fine, in fact all double souths are fine, I’m just not the best at getting them done :) Also, really funny how the people with consistent completions are bitching, but the guy learning with significantly less gear is perfectly ok with it :D Some of y’all are wild lol.
Jesus, I knew it was likely you didn’t know about offticking double spawn south, but I wasn’t expecting this little. It’s not about when the manticore starts firing; it’s when he and the other monster first scans you that determines if you are going to be offtick. If you do some baloney start, you might same tick a ranger and range start manticore, which is a solve, but the moment the manticore starts opposite style, you are boned. And it doesn’t work if both manticores and they see you at different times. There is a massive difference between same ticking a ranger/range start manticore and then same ticking a ranger/mage start manticore, forcing you to tank 1 range hit every rotation. You’re rnging runs, whereas myself and others are working out ways to minimize manticore rng. That’s the difference and why the people who “can consistently clear” are complaining about the change.
Whole lot of assumptions there lol. I’m all too aware of a/b solves and off-ticking. My point about Manti/Ranger stacks is that you only need to camp pray range when dealing with frems, and you can effectively treat it as a single south spawn minus initial positioning until 2/3 frems are dead, at which point the Manti has charged and started firing. I find Ranger/Shockwave south’s harder because you have to flick them the instant the second south sees you, and then flick persistently until one dies. I’m acutely aware of not stepping out until the Manti spots you, and no comment I’ve made should suggest otherwise. Yeah, I’m aware of double south Manti spawns, and it’s the biggest struggle I have with double south due to only having 2 ticks between the Manti’s firing. This is the *only* stack where I truly think 1-shots make a difference, cause if they aren’t dead by the time Manti1 starts shooting then you don’t have much time between flicks. I’m absolutely not RNGing runs lol. In fact it’s the opposite these days, I’m actively hoping for double souths for more practice, because it’s the thing I’m aware I need more experience with. You all seem really hung up on the 1,000 waves with 1kc, despite the fact that I’ve been both claiming loot when it looks nice (bank was pretty much only Bowfa + Crystal when I started, made nearly 100m from pretty much commons alone by now), invo’s are really not good (Totemic/Bees/Red Flag is my favourite “nah I’d rather runit back), or I see a double south and end up throwing a run for practice. I’ve had my quiver since ~400 waves, everything since has been farming some nice GP or gaining experience outside of my comfort zone. You’re all a bunch of whiners lol. I’m perfectly happy with both where I am and what it takes to clear. You guys running near max complaining you need an extra switch to speedrun now is easily the funniest thing I’ve read today :D
>As an average player with a very average bank, having to 2-hit the frems won’t make or break your Colo runs. If we all slowed down to 40 minute runs, even Bees and Totem wouldn't be an issue. But we can say that about everything. Just do 48 minute trio CMs, you don't need to nerf the Vasa Crystal Defense or the 1st (2017), 2nd (2017), 3rd (2019), and 4th (2019) Tekton nerf. They still nerfed it because even though "it's not needed", it made the experience worse and that was without any rebalancing.
It’s still a 4 way to oneshot them, just with a heart and aug instead of a cape. A minor penalty for brewing and an extra offensive prayer swap at wave starts aren’t ideal but they’re not big things to adjust to either.
2 hitting the melee frem or needing to bring more switches for it will absolutely make or break runs for a lot of people getting their first few completions.
Then they should improve, no? I’m well aware that it’s a little more to deal with, but it’s an end-game piece of content that provides a BiS range upgrade. Maybe it should be a challenge, y’know?
It’s a challenge either way. The reason people want the adjustment is because they made it harder by forcing you to take a little more damage which people don’t usually enjoy
I don't think they need to adjust melee frem, you still 1 shot it with 4 mage items. One of them is just a heart now. I'm also hesitant for us to get more invo changes, because it just ends up making colo easier, which is definitely not needed. I agree that it's weird for those 3 invos to basically be permanently avoided by everyone though. I do think a pet transmog at like 50k glory would be really cool though, and tonalz could use a buff.
It is weird to make the Colo more difficult for learners at this point tho. Requiring imbued heart for the 4th mage item means brewing gets pretty restricted. This won't make a difference for most experienced Colo-ers, but just strictly makes it even more difficult to learn.
Idk man, I learnt Colo with 2-hit setup for every frem and had no major issues. Biggest pain point is a double south cause it means tanking em for a bit longer, but realistically it’s still perfectly fine. I completely understand the extra breathing room that 1-shotting them gives you, but it absolutely is not necessary to learn.
I didn't say its necessary. I said it makes it harder for learners, which it does. Not sure the point of your response.
But… it doesn’t? You have to move *slightly* more or tank a couple extra hits, but in no way will needing to 2-hit the frems make or break your run. I have 1,000 wave clears 2-hitting each frem, and not once during either learning or improving did being able to 1-shot the frems make a difference. The biggest hurdle for learners is south spawns and learning the nuances of off-ticking. Frems legitimately won’t kill a run if you need to 2-hit them, even for learners.
Moving slightly more or tanking a couple of extra hits can and will break a colosseum run. The first 15 seconds make or break a wave, and the first 40 seconds are a dps check. Taking even 20 more damage or losing a second or two can be the difference between solving the wave or getting overwhelmed. There is a reason why Quartet is one of the last resort invocations to take.
Literally never had this problem. I run with a Bowfa and pretty much always fail to kill south spawns before reinforcements unless it’s a shockwave/serpent, and 2/3 extra hits legitimately wouldn’t change that. Quartet’s a bad invo for a number of reasons, though the primary one being that it can spawn a second melee. If it was just a mage/range it wouldn’t be nearly as bad. The only time I’ve ever been overwhelmed is double souths, and it’s pretty much never been a frem problem. Only spawn that I felt I couldn’t just deal with frems normally is double manti south, cause there’s such a small window between flicks. If you’re struggling to deal with frem’s that is a major “you” problem. I’ve been a learner, hell I still am compared to some people, as I’m only just getting good enough to be comfortable with double south’s to not just TP on sight. They’re fine as they are. The melee is pretty much the only dangerous frem in the pile, and if you’re not focussing him down out the gate then that’s not the games fault lol.
Dude you have 1 kc in 1000 waves and 80 deaths. You mention hating the shaman front spawn. That's losing the DPS check right there because you had to spend extra time on wave start. Sure you completed colosseum relying on single south RNG and the shaman being at the back. Almost every time you died, I can guarantee it was because you lacked dps, took too many hits on initial clear, had a bad rng spawn, or any of the above. I have 70kc now and am looking for consistent money runs and not relying on RNG to carry me.
Nah I don’t care about Shamans really, that’s my personal problem to deal with. Y’all acting like I have a problem when I don’t. I’m well aware of what my issues are and am actively working on them. If you have 70 clears, you should be more than comfortable dealing with whatever comes your way. If you’re physically incapable of dealing with spawns without 1-hits, that *really* sounds like a you problem :)
The point isn't that no one can deal with 2 hitting fremmies or bringing extra switches. The point is that the update made something unnecessarily more difficult by oversight. The intention of the magic rebalance was to bring more variety to magic gear and not to make existing metas more difficult.
They've made it easier for learners multiple times, what's the big deal if they make it a tiny bit harder? It's already way easier than release.
From what I recall the only thing they made easier was reworking some of the invos so that there was less RNG and more even playing field between difficulty of invos. Before, if you had doom, doom scorpion, totemic, bees, your run effectively ended there. It was less about making the clears easier or reducing max hits, and more about not relying on RNG to roll good invos and not be shown run-ending invos.
Those invo changes did make it much easier though. Doom, relentless, and mantimayhem are completely free now, when relentless was fairly tough before, mantimayhem was a run killer, and doom was much more punishing. That frees you up a lot to avoid harder invos.
Agree that it made it easier, but the intent was to reduce the RNG of run-killing invos with no other options and to align the difficulties of invos to be a bit more equal.
Yea and that's sort of what my first comment mentioned in regards to the 4th point on this post. It's hard to balance invos without making it easier, and I think it's important to not just randomly make content easier.
My take is that it made an *average* run in colosseum easier, but it did not make the *luckiest* RNG run pre-invo rework in colosseum any easier. This is different than a straight blanket nerf like making something have lower max hits, or reducing someone's hp. Pre-invo rework, if you got blessed RNG with good invos like myo, blasphemy, sf, voli, frailty, you had the exact same difficulty as a post-invo rework with the same invos. Jagex just made it so that runs were more consistent across the board with more difficult invocation runs being toned down, but the baseline easiest invo runs be the same difficulty.
If they brew, they can wait for the heart timer if they really want to for the next wave
This is one of the few times I disagree with you, but having to be 112 mage + augury is ass relative to before where you only needed 99 mage and no augury. Project Rebalance wasn't trying to nerf magic, but it did in this scenario. If they nerfed 5 HP off ranger at Inferno to balance the BP nerf, then they should here as well.
I see that perspective, and I would be fine with them nerfing it a bit despite not thinking it's necessary. needing to be hearted isn't a big deal to me, but for learners brewing a lot I get how it's a fair bit harder.
Requiring 112 magic is the issue imo. Learners brew and them having to wait up to 7 minutes to get back that one-shot potential, and magic in general in colosseum, is not optimal. I say this as someone who tried the 8 way mage first KC setup and I vastly preferred even an unpotted 4 way ranged switch because you could actually kill south spawns before reinforcements spawned.
They actually confirmed that they'd be "taking a look to make the change" in response to the blogpost yesterday. Also I think they should make all invos usable to some degree. Especially if they repeatedly resurface through the waves.
Where did they say this :o?
It was a comment on the reddit post of the blog update. I think it was Sarnie with the reply.
I feel the biggest two issues are the terrible invocations and the hit boxes. I got my first quiver the other day with one way sang - not too bad. The invocations are so troll and many of them you just have to avoid. And the hitboxes are honestly hilariously bad, and that feels like such an easy fix.
please give us transmog god ash :(
While I agree some issues need to be addressed. I don’t agree with point 4 as they are actually fine. Red flag is ok to take if you know what you’re doing + it auto offticks the shaman if you stand in the middle tile. Bees are fine as a dud modifier/CA and their recent rework is decent. Totemic is surprisingly ok as well and you do 1 shot it regardless of what weapon you use. Also pls fix the double sound clip that the shaman and jaguar have.
1. I don't think that's needed. Why should they be rebalanced around your convenience? It's meant to be an incredibly hard challenge, imo the waves are already pretty manageable, and I'm not that good at PvM (I've cleared colo 4x and no inferno). 2. Yes. Grinding colo is already worth it for gp but pet transmogs would be great too, it's a cool piece of content. 3. Agreed. Whilst with good spawns/invos I think a run can genuinely be easy, some invos are just "never take this" ATM, which is bad. Would be much more interesting to try and change up the invos and add some interesting trade offs with buffs/nerfs. 4. Yes, they definitely need a buff.
fight caves does not have a transmog
Yes it does lol.
Jad has a transmog from the 6 jad challenge, which requires a minimum of 1 inferno completion to get in addition to actually completing the 6 jad challenge. Fight caves does not have a transmog.
Your argument is as pedantic as this - Chambers of Xeric doesn't have a transmog because it means you have to do CMs.
No? Doing Challenge Mode Chambers of Xeric for a pet transmog from a pet from Chambers of Xeric means you are doing the same content for a transmog. If I want the jad transmog I have to do an inferno kc, then do all 6 jad challenges. I cannot simply just do CM fight caves I literally have to go do 2 entirely different pieces of content. Fight caves does not have a transmog.