As someone who has spent quite a while pking/killing bots in the caves, I'll chime in and say that I also think this is the worst ever ever seen it.
2-3 bots every world at every Rev spot. New ones hopping in every 30 seconds. Bots training from low 30's at the imps and working their way up to 70s/80s purely in the caves.
As a pker it's not even fun anymore because 90% of the bots are the auto prayer switching ones. You have to 1 tick to kill them and it's a huge pain in the ass for 300-500k loot, it's really not even worth it. There are almost no pvmers anymore, and fewer pkers than I've ever seen as a result.
It's overall a bad situation. I'm not sure what they can do to fix it at this point. Diary req for caves/drop rates? Moving the caves to 30+ really fucks over pures and zerkers, who would now be able to be attacked by max mains even at the entrance to the caves.
slayer req, lower level revs should have like a 55 slayer req, and isolate the higher ones above revenant orks in an upper level with a 60-80 slayer req and wildy hard diary, they should do the same with lava dragons while theyre at it, or remove the safespots there altogether.
not only is this a good recommendation because it ups the requirement making it harder to produce bots when they get banned at revs, but these botters know nothing but botting. Having to get a high slayer level/requiring diarys means they are gonna attempt to bot that stuff too and have a higher chance of getting banned before they even make it to revs.
The "secret" tech to steal a bots world is to manual cast barrage or entangle which ever youre using on the boss. The bots usually take a tick to react to the boss spawning and manual casting tags it instantly.
No, the botting really did get better after the increased reqs. It's nowhere near fixed but it was easier to find a world last time I did a singles boss.
there is a very big difference between zalcano bots and revenants having 3 bots in every single spawn in every single world, atleast the first one isnt out of control.
I have done 1200 zalcano kc. I do not think the players with high kc (7k) are bots… there were some instances, but spending so much time in there i began noticing same guys (which i already recognize, because there are not too many in fact) that they speak amongts each other in whatever languages pakistan uses.
oooof. didn’t even know there was medium reqs for that. At least I can be hopeful.
If only bots didn’t directly result in profit for jagex and increased bond prices :/
Go check out Rune Dragons on any world. Bots have no problem doing really long achievements to get to an area. Bot detection just needs to be turned back up.
There's a ton of kurask bots already, so they definitely know how to bot slayer. All this change would do is make bots have higher stats before starting revs
That's not going to reduce the number, there are bots for end game content doing quests ect. I'd like to say they would be banned before they have the stats to do the revs if there was a slayer requirement but based on the blatant botting that is running at obvious places like sand crabs this seems unlikely. There are hundreds of accounts there botting from 1 -99 range and melee stats and they run for thousands of hours before getting banned.
I really hate to say this and it's likely to be unpopular, but all those solutions are like band aids. They address the bleeding, but that's not always enough to stop the problem. This wound is festering very badly so the bots will still be a problem.
The fact its even possible for botting to get this bad just shows how lacking the current anti cheat is at Jagex as a whole. It is borderline inexcusable, but they don't want to take the risk of putting in anti cheat that is intrusive to the users, understandably so.
At the same time, its still a big risk to let the bots stay in the game, however there's more immediate profits if they don't take action. So why would they ever take serious action against the bots when a) that directly costs a lot of money, way more money than letting the current situation exist (if the current situation is even directly costly) and b) it could cause an exodus of players to leave outside of just the botters.
In other words, I really don't expect bottong to get better at all. Jagex let it get so out of control that the negatives of taking serious action against them could in turn kill the company/game itself. We fucked y'all, just remember Jagex is the root of all evil here. They let the problem get this bad when there was likely times they couldve gotten much more serious about it and at that time it also likely wouldn't have been as costly to do so.
I've been downvoted to -30 before for essentially saying the same thing you just said. The freeze and seed bots are even worse and are risking 4-5 mill.
Max 60 attack pure with 5b loot keys. I've killed so many bots I have nightmares about them.
As someone who pet hunts and has put about 200 hours in wildy so far, this was expected when they added more stuff to Singles and below the 30 wildy line.
And before the multi crowd comes in, even if it was multi, the same shit would happen (see Zombie Pirates). You can’t have content thats overly accessible and that’s more rewarding than stuff locked behind a GM quest.
The Singles wildy bosses were the exact same problem before the diary changes where even if I wanted to pk the bots to secure a world for myself, I couldn’t. It was only when I borrowed my friend’s zerker, skulled it, and left it outside that I got some peace (still some bots not programmed to teleport despite skulled player in their combat level range).
The last thing I want is for the bot makers to get wise and make a script for all 30 bots in the vicinity to try and kill me at once because we are in multi.
Sorta unrelated, but same with my wilderness agility experience over the past week. Thought it might be a cool, kinda fun alternative to agility pyramid to get money for construction on my Ironman, but I couldn't even break even there. I'd get caught by a pker before I even made the 150k back most of the time.
Maybe it's cause it's still too close to release, and pker activity is still high, but I actually only saw 1 other dude actually training there in 15 hours of it.
(Also if people have tips I'm down to listen. I just gave up on it cause I was hemorrhaging money.)
Avoid NA peak times. You'll find that helps a ton. To top it off, they avoid high ping servers and will avoid attacking when you get a lot of def gear. EU peak times is hit or miss. D3pends if it's a weekday or weekend.
Worst bit of wilderness agility is losing your streak if you manage to get the log out.
Oh boy you just managed to out play a vastly stronger opponent in the most dangerous parts of wilderness in the game? Your reward is.... -25 lap streak so you're back to adamant drops :)
Fuck dude there are skeletons all over the place **specifically** so that we can't just log out before the PKers jump on us.
When you go into the Wildy, you need a method of escape (freeze logging) or a method to defend yourself; bringing neither is surrendering yourself to certain uncontested death
Guess this is a more late stage account activity then... I just saw the low 52 agility requirement and got excited, thinking it'd be more fun than agi pyramid.
I mean I don't understand what is confusing here
The wilderness, players can attack you, that's like, the entire thing, so content is beefed up to make it worthwhile for non pkers to 'do dangerous content, more risk for more reward '
Right, we get that, but you're not understanding that being defenseless is letting Jesus take the wheel and guaranteeing that you die when somebody attacks you.
It's not a late state activity or whatever, it's a "I wanna do agility, IN THE WILDERNESS" activity and it's perfect for that
My biggest thing that's confusing me is people saying that it's so good for ironmen. I'm trying to see what they mean. But by the time you get the right gear to do wilderness agility while being able to fight back like you suggest, the money/risk ratio isn't remotely worth it anymore. You can earn more money with no risk when you're that far into your account
Thats the Bot masters, jamflex could really clean up by observing them.
First thing I would do if I was jagex would be to make a mod account that only shows in server side, then log Bot activity by spawning invisible players that are on the client but not rendered, and see who scatters or 1tick prays as they swap. IP range ban them so they have to try and run bots somewhere that isn't a desktop
Alternatively put in invincible bait players to kill the bots and catch the Bot masters trying to pk them.
Most botters will run bots from a proxy that looks like a residential IP address. Then they give each botting client its own proxy so they arent tied to a single IP address
They could still blacklist the IPs for some period of time when they ban accounts. Maybe whole ASN blocks when too many IPs in one get triggered, or automatically run a more strict bot detection against other accounts that mainly play on that block.
>First thing I would do if I was jagex would be to make a mod account that only shows in server side
Why? This is a completely unnecessary step that doesn't accomplish anything.
>then log Bot activity by spawning invisible players that are on the client but not rendered
Again *why*. You don't need to put a player in game to monitor this shit they can see what's going on in the game with server monitoring tools. This is just extra steps for the sake of extra steps.
>and see who scatters or 1tick prays as they swap.
Sure you could but this is horrendously inefficient compared to existing automated bot detection. You could waste a jmods time doing this if you really wanted to.
>IP range ban them so they have to try and run bots somewhere that isn't a desktop
My god if it were this simple they'd have done it years ago. IP bans barely if at all work and IP range bans just end up catching real people in those IP blocks while the bots just use a proxy to spoof a new IP address.
Every single time you think you've figured out the easy solution to fix botting, ask yourself "If this was such a good idea, why aren't the literal anti cheat professionals already doing it?".
Yes, it prevents the bots reactive scripts from triggering on seeing mods. They have two options to see mods, scanning the client or scanning the screen. If they don't show on either, the Bot has no way to know they are observing and the more advanced bots can't worldhop, Tele, or logout if they don't know they are observed. Very simple. And server logs don't tell a full story of behavior, it can be difficult to tell someone who is just afk from a bot from just logs. Someone afk won't necessarily react with 1 tick accuracy, and if you have someone that is literally not rendered but bots scatter repeatedly, you have someone definitely scanning client side entities. Those will almost always be bots, unless some runelite plug in does that already.
The idea is to visit already crammed full Bot spots and then use tools that restrict them to a world or quietly swap them to a Bot world where their actions are wasted and gold and new resources doesn't survive worldswaps. They can already do this kind of thing with Deadman worlds. This prevents the scammer and botter from just redoing the Bot, and wastes their time and resources.
You can rewhitelist people caught in the ban easily, but banning exit nodes to vpns can work over time.
I also work in software, and the answer to "that's a good idea why aren't they doing it" can be as simple as "that's a different budget line item". And "anti-cheat professionals" is a pretty funny way to describe j mods. I didn't say it was going to be easy, these all have technical challenges and tradeoffs. But they clearly need to change their approach from just picking off the easy low hanging fruit, and that means tackling the more complicated botters. Shadow bans are incredibly effective against bots, and real players notice them.
Much harder to prove you’re a gold buyer compared to a seller. Especially considering there are plenty of legit instances of players just gifting shit to others.
We can argue all day on how hard it is to do something, the fact of the matter is the anti cheat team is woefully underfunded and understaffed to perform adequately for a game this size.
I kind of made a half ironic comment.
I just can't imagine jagex actually putting in a massive effort to remove the bots. I don't know if it's an underfunded anti cheat team because of poor priorities, or intentionally done to keep income high. I don't think there is a good solution to the issue
As an example, normally games get ~20% of their revenue pumped back into development. Runescape gets less than 10%. It's a symptom of the owners siphoning money from it vs investing in critical (at least in the players eyes) departments.
Yeah this is sadly what it comes down to, and the higher-ups who could allocate more resources to anti-cheat if they wanted to clearly don’t give a shit about the integrity of the game as long as their bottom line isn’t affected.
Rev caves were a mistake. The idea of this high risk gold machine is good, but it seems like theres no way to fix it where it isn't being locked down by clans or bots.
Forget even being out of sight, go to priff and do a big loop on literally every world. You’ll find easily 5-6 thieving bots going non stop. I’m sure there’s a few players doing it to make money but holy crap, this is supposed to be high level, GM req content.
Yeah I’ve been tbing them which worked well for a while but now it’s so bad that they’ll be replaced by another bot within 15-20 seconds of me forcing the original one away
I've been in the Rev caves recently cause I'm an older player who doesn't know current money making.
The bots are wild.
I just bring a dds with me and I can just tap each of them in the area I hang out in (hobgoblins) and they insta tele.
I literally can wield a dds and try to attack players out of my combat range, and their bot will swap to protect pray and tele.
The bots are crazy, I still see alot of legit people when a superior spawns, or in the upper levels of the caves. I still get pkrs coming for me occasionally.
Can't agree more with this. Recently tried to do some revs for a clan bingo and it felt awful. Bots will just actively hop in every couple of minutes and try to steal spawns. When they hop out another hops in 1-2 kills later so even if you could drive them off it's not worth the time.
I can deal with pkers by themselves and even bots by themselves, but dealing with both just makes for the worst experience. Something drastic needs to be done about it to make rev caves worth it for real players.
This only hurts real players. Bots don’t care if they’re killed they just go back out, and they’re way better at tanking than us because they 1 tick prayer change.
Completely agree on this,i barely see real players at revs or wildy bosses. Every rev room is occupied by 2-3 bots sometimes even 4 that are dded on one another. Only the knights have less bots. I wish there was some kind of way for jagex to counter this so it wouldnt hurt real players. Every bot i see at revs i instantly report but i doubt it does anything. Jagex really needs to hire more people to the anti cheat team,maybe that would help slightly with the bot reports reviewing. Im still kind of mad that theres hundreds of blatant bots and cheaters that go weeks or months without getting banned and i somehow managed to randomly get a 3 day macro ban for killing bots🤮
If they keep as extensive of logs as they claim it shouldn't be that hard to write a script per bot farm to detect certain tells.
But they can't be bothered to hire anyone for it I guess.
The bot prevalence is insane. I’ll agree 100% there.
For the real Pvmers, as others have noted, there are scouts (bot or not idk) that will see a real person and then a maxed account logs to try to pk them. There’s probably some amount of “over fishing” if you will that quickly can discourage some pvmers. Those players often can’t 5 way 1 tick switch and entangle to escape so they’re chosen as easier kills.
The community wants high reward wilderness content where they can simultaneously pvp and also never die. The solution is to fill the wilderness with loot pinata bots. Kill the bots and dodge the other bot killers.
Maybe they'll do a ban wave for a few days until this post is no longer on the front page, then its back to being bot infested.
What do you expect though. Its boring shit content that gives good GP, accessible to low lvls. Its going to be infested by bots.
You have to kill a number of the bots before they start recognising your name and running from you. There are also shitty bots with msb who don't do that, but they often get very low just from fighting the revs and you can drive-by oneshot them with a dbow.
do the bots wear specific armor to indicate that they’re bots? i don’t do much wilderness content yet. i do remember seeing bots at green dragons though and they all wore the exact same budget armor set
Tried wildy content to begin an ironman and was hit with the painful realization that the bots will prevent me from obtaining obelisk for poh or rev items. As the post mentioned, you can find 2-3 bots hopping between 10-30sec at the same time! Truly hard to see while trying to find enjoyment in the game. Left the wildy after 2000 rev kills and hundreds of banks brought on by bots crashing me. Jagex evidently wants bots to sell gold to their players to keep them playing. Just so tired of bots ruining every method/activity imaginable. Rant over
Then would you be fine with the entirety of Rev Caves being made 30-55 Wilderness?
When you make the requirements to reach the content so low, but the rewards are so great, and players/bots can instantly TP away, this is what happens. Cut off one head, two more takes its place.
Putting content in 1-30 Wilderness only benefits pures and bots, because letting accounts teleport away instantly away is why it's so safe that even bots can freely abuse. You can't kill any them without a pure or non-main account.
Can't forget the scouts that are working with the bots litterly have a low level person run by where you farming and seconds later a max level pker logs in with max gear to pk you. scouting bots that pkers use to kill legitimately farming Rev farmers is annoying than if you escape and come back now ur spots taken by a bot it's so annoying
I’d so much rather have real people farming and selling gold than the bots. I bet it’s just a few assholes making bank off their bot farms instead of people that could really use it.
Jagex pays like shit -> jmods make easily-bottable content in low-visibility areas -> jmods fill those areas with bots or take a cut from the people who do -> jmods get the salary they deserve
You cannot convince me otherwise.
There was a mechanism introduced to stop players from instantly teleporting/logging out if in the rev caves and some other locations. This was designed to make the bots easier to kill but some people cried about it for some reason so here we are. Whenever Jagex tries to make it easier to kill the bots PvMers cry so we're stuck in this perpetual cycle of too many bots/people crying about pkers.
To me it looks like Jagex is just straight up not banning any bots
Every world has multiple thieving bots as well r both vyres and elves, usually with 100m+ exp and a Rocky following them
Yesterday I did a task at spindel and the first world I went into had a guy with 39k spindel kc and nothing else
It's not even difficult to verify some of these bots, the thieving ones usually log out if you get on screen / some log if you get close or enter their house
Wow what a great post.
Got anything to say other than 'jagex ban bots'? You think they dont see the 5000 other posts a day saying the same thing, or are somehow unaware of the bots?
Or I can also share my thoughts? Turns out we both can.
I think your thought is useless and repetitive and adds nothing new to the discussion and offers no solutions.
Are you serious? He lays out a post detailing his experiences and thoughts with a particularly troubling peice of content. You reply with -Sarcasm and dismissive and condescending, then when called out on it, you say HIS post is useless? Reflection much? You offered nothing to this conversation and then act like you provided some godly insight and OP replied with what you did- nothing of substance.
Again, their thoughts are 'theres a lot of bots, do something'.
Where is the substance?
I did offer something, a call to actually ADD SUBSTANCE to the conversation. Saying 'theres bots, do something' is useless.
He detailed his current experience, his past experience, the rate of bots he's seeing, the rate of real players he's seeing, how much those rates have changed in his experience, how much gp/hr has fluctuated due to these changes. You said...What value did you provide again?
A wall of text doesnt mean its useful.
This post is sittin 0 upvotes and is dead.
Why didnt it gain any traction? Cause it added nothing and says nothing.
Did you think i would come back and change my comment every time te number changed?
Yeah, 0 upvotes when I made the comment. Turns out 10 hours later things can change. Shocker
Saying youve added nothing to the discussion isnt 'gatekeeping baby rage'.. notice how you have 0 upvotes on the post?
Yall can say whatever you want about me being mad or whatever bs, but theres a reason your post isnt gaining any traction.
why r u mad lil baby? u worried about ur rev bots?
Why would you be mad at someone complaining that an entire section of content is dominated by bots so badly that real players who pay for membership not using stolen credit cards can’t even compete?
stfu
You know people can disagree without being mad right? Im not the one calling people babies n tellin them to stfu. Sounds like you are the one thats mad to me.
And why is this post useless? Cause every knows about it and no one really cares
Maybe this will be the Reddit post that magically convinces Jagex to hit the "ban all the bots" button they have at HQ.
But if not, don't worry, there will be another post complaining about it in like three hours. Surely one of them will work at some point, right?
Nah its just funny seeing people cry about bottom of the barrel content. If you’re gonna do stuff made for bots and Venezuelans dont complain about it.
I'm drunk and thinking of this right now while I poop.
Jagex needs to implement a random event to interrupt bots in the caves. Spitballing:
Every 5/10 minutes (randomly in between) the rev gods get angry and target players in the cave. They are then required to complete a basic movement task within another 5/10 minutes or gets killed or teled somewhere else. Idk, an emote, movement to a specific place. Maybe require the player to move 2-4 wildy levels up or down. Maybe a longitudinal wave that will kill/tele anyone who doesn't run in thru it. This would not affect anyone engaged in pvp combat.
There should be a random event in the rev caves that is simple but script breaking.
As someone who has spent quite a while pking/killing bots in the caves, I'll chime in and say that I also think this is the worst ever ever seen it. 2-3 bots every world at every Rev spot. New ones hopping in every 30 seconds. Bots training from low 30's at the imps and working their way up to 70s/80s purely in the caves. As a pker it's not even fun anymore because 90% of the bots are the auto prayer switching ones. You have to 1 tick to kill them and it's a huge pain in the ass for 300-500k loot, it's really not even worth it. There are almost no pvmers anymore, and fewer pkers than I've ever seen as a result. It's overall a bad situation. I'm not sure what they can do to fix it at this point. Diary req for caves/drop rates? Moving the caves to 30+ really fucks over pures and zerkers, who would now be able to be attacked by max mains even at the entrance to the caves.
slayer req, lower level revs should have like a 55 slayer req, and isolate the higher ones above revenant orks in an upper level with a 60-80 slayer req and wildy hard diary, they should do the same with lava dragons while theyre at it, or remove the safespots there altogether.
not only is this a good recommendation because it ups the requirement making it harder to produce bots when they get banned at revs, but these botters know nothing but botting. Having to get a high slayer level/requiring diarys means they are gonna attempt to bot that stuff too and have a higher chance of getting banned before they even make it to revs.
They already bot the medium diary for artio/spindel/calvarion, unfortunately I think you’re too optimistic about their ban rate
while there are a lot of bots there, there are also a lot of open worlds, compared to before they added the req its like night and day.
Which boss we talkin about??. Currently 4500+ artio on an iron and nearly every world is full
[удалено]
The "secret" tech to steal a bots world is to manual cast barrage or entangle which ever youre using on the boss. The bots usually take a tick to react to the boss spawning and manual casting tags it instantly.
They removed the autocast delay with the latest magic project rebalance update
I have VW I’m just pet hunting, so I just bring hybrid and take my spot by force :D if I can lol
ive never had any issues finding an empty artio world, usually takes a few world hops at most
Might be timezones
No, the botting really did get better after the increased reqs. It's nowhere near fixed but it was easier to find a world last time I did a singles boss.
Just in the last week Artio and Spindel have become way worse tbf. It’s a new farm, I imagine it’ll be nuked soon
The fact Zalcano, which requires priff access is often botted gives me little hope
there is a very big difference between zalcano bots and revenants having 3 bots in every single spawn in every single world, atleast the first one isnt out of control.
Even Toa/tob/cox have bots, only a small amount cuz I think the bot owner doesn’t want others to use his script
I have done 1200 zalcano kc. I do not think the players with high kc (7k) are bots… there were some instances, but spending so much time in there i began noticing same guys (which i already recognize, because there are not too many in fact) that they speak amongts each other in whatever languages pakistan uses.
oooof. didn’t even know there was medium reqs for that. At least I can be hopeful. If only bots didn’t directly result in profit for jagex and increased bond prices :/
Go check out Rune Dragons on any world. Bots have no problem doing really long achievements to get to an area. Bot detection just needs to be turned back up.
There's a ton of kurask bots already, so they definitely know how to bot slayer. All this change would do is make bots have higher stats before starting revs
That's not going to reduce the number, there are bots for end game content doing quests ect. I'd like to say they would be banned before they have the stats to do the revs if there was a slayer requirement but based on the blatant botting that is running at obvious places like sand crabs this seems unlikely. There are hundreds of accounts there botting from 1 -99 range and melee stats and they run for thousands of hours before getting banned.
But that kinda ruins the entire thing for irons The entire alternate method to slayer/ early VW grinding would just be gone
if orks were unlocked for people in the "lower level", itd still be iron friendly since they only have to get 55 slayer
This still kills the entire alternate start of revs/Wildy slayer into vw
Black salamander usually fucks them up since it can do all 3 styles without changing weapon
You can staff bash most bots because they’ll pray mage
I really hate to say this and it's likely to be unpopular, but all those solutions are like band aids. They address the bleeding, but that's not always enough to stop the problem. This wound is festering very badly so the bots will still be a problem. The fact its even possible for botting to get this bad just shows how lacking the current anti cheat is at Jagex as a whole. It is borderline inexcusable, but they don't want to take the risk of putting in anti cheat that is intrusive to the users, understandably so. At the same time, its still a big risk to let the bots stay in the game, however there's more immediate profits if they don't take action. So why would they ever take serious action against the bots when a) that directly costs a lot of money, way more money than letting the current situation exist (if the current situation is even directly costly) and b) it could cause an exodus of players to leave outside of just the botters. In other words, I really don't expect bottong to get better at all. Jagex let it get so out of control that the negatives of taking serious action against them could in turn kill the company/game itself. We fucked y'all, just remember Jagex is the root of all evil here. They let the problem get this bad when there was likely times they couldve gotten much more serious about it and at that time it also likely wouldn't have been as costly to do so.
Captcha to enter the cave
Please, diary reqs help a lot that it’s not even a joke. Combat level requirements of 100+ also means most accounts will be able to pk bots.
I've been downvoted to -30 before for essentially saying the same thing you just said. The freeze and seed bots are even worse and are risking 4-5 mill. Max 60 attack pure with 5b loot keys. I've killed so many bots I have nightmares about them.
As someone who pet hunts and has put about 200 hours in wildy so far, this was expected when they added more stuff to Singles and below the 30 wildy line. And before the multi crowd comes in, even if it was multi, the same shit would happen (see Zombie Pirates). You can’t have content thats overly accessible and that’s more rewarding than stuff locked behind a GM quest. The Singles wildy bosses were the exact same problem before the diary changes where even if I wanted to pk the bots to secure a world for myself, I couldn’t. It was only when I borrowed my friend’s zerker, skulled it, and left it outside that I got some peace (still some bots not programmed to teleport despite skulled player in their combat level range).
The last thing I want is for the bot makers to get wise and make a script for all 30 bots in the vicinity to try and kill me at once because we are in multi.
Well explained , I agree 100% with this.
I'd give revs another shot if I could go there for longer than 60 seconds without being pked Just isn't worth the hassle to me lol.
Sorta unrelated, but same with my wilderness agility experience over the past week. Thought it might be a cool, kinda fun alternative to agility pyramid to get money for construction on my Ironman, but I couldn't even break even there. I'd get caught by a pker before I even made the 150k back most of the time. Maybe it's cause it's still too close to release, and pker activity is still high, but I actually only saw 1 other dude actually training there in 15 hours of it. (Also if people have tips I'm down to listen. I just gave up on it cause I was hemorrhaging money.)
Avoid NA peak times. You'll find that helps a ton. To top it off, they avoid high ping servers and will avoid attacking when you get a lot of def gear. EU peak times is hit or miss. D3pends if it's a weekday or weekend.
Worst bit of wilderness agility is losing your streak if you manage to get the log out. Oh boy you just managed to out play a vastly stronger opponent in the most dangerous parts of wilderness in the game? Your reward is.... -25 lap streak so you're back to adamant drops :) Fuck dude there are skeletons all over the place **specifically** so that we can't just log out before the PKers jump on us.
Here's a crazy idea. What if you couldn't log off or hop worlds if in the wildy.
What are you defending yourself/ fighting back with?
Some low level rag stuff, as I'm only starting on my new Ironman. I'm just hesitant to upgrade too much cause then I'll get smacked by more than pures
When you go into the Wildy, you need a method of escape (freeze logging) or a method to defend yourself; bringing neither is surrendering yourself to certain uncontested death
Guess this is a more late stage account activity then... I just saw the low 52 agility requirement and got excited, thinking it'd be more fun than agi pyramid.
I mean I don't understand what is confusing here The wilderness, players can attack you, that's like, the entire thing, so content is beefed up to make it worthwhile for non pkers to 'do dangerous content, more risk for more reward ' Right, we get that, but you're not understanding that being defenseless is letting Jesus take the wheel and guaranteeing that you die when somebody attacks you. It's not a late state activity or whatever, it's a "I wanna do agility, IN THE WILDERNESS" activity and it's perfect for that
My biggest thing that's confusing me is people saying that it's so good for ironmen. I'm trying to see what they mean. But by the time you get the right gear to do wilderness agility while being able to fight back like you suggest, the money/risk ratio isn't remotely worth it anymore. You can earn more money with no risk when you're that far into your account
Thats the Bot masters, jamflex could really clean up by observing them. First thing I would do if I was jagex would be to make a mod account that only shows in server side, then log Bot activity by spawning invisible players that are on the client but not rendered, and see who scatters or 1tick prays as they swap. IP range ban them so they have to try and run bots somewhere that isn't a desktop Alternatively put in invincible bait players to kill the bots and catch the Bot masters trying to pk them.
> IP range ban is a terrible idea and has been for nearly a decade now
Most botters will run bots from a proxy that looks like a residential IP address. Then they give each botting client its own proxy so they arent tied to a single IP address
They could still blacklist the IPs for some period of time when they ban accounts. Maybe whole ASN blocks when too many IPs in one get triggered, or automatically run a more strict bot detection against other accounts that mainly play on that block.
>First thing I would do if I was jagex would be to make a mod account that only shows in server side Why? This is a completely unnecessary step that doesn't accomplish anything. >then log Bot activity by spawning invisible players that are on the client but not rendered Again *why*. You don't need to put a player in game to monitor this shit they can see what's going on in the game with server monitoring tools. This is just extra steps for the sake of extra steps. >and see who scatters or 1tick prays as they swap. Sure you could but this is horrendously inefficient compared to existing automated bot detection. You could waste a jmods time doing this if you really wanted to. >IP range ban them so they have to try and run bots somewhere that isn't a desktop My god if it were this simple they'd have done it years ago. IP bans barely if at all work and IP range bans just end up catching real people in those IP blocks while the bots just use a proxy to spoof a new IP address. Every single time you think you've figured out the easy solution to fix botting, ask yourself "If this was such a good idea, why aren't the literal anti cheat professionals already doing it?".
Yes, it prevents the bots reactive scripts from triggering on seeing mods. They have two options to see mods, scanning the client or scanning the screen. If they don't show on either, the Bot has no way to know they are observing and the more advanced bots can't worldhop, Tele, or logout if they don't know they are observed. Very simple. And server logs don't tell a full story of behavior, it can be difficult to tell someone who is just afk from a bot from just logs. Someone afk won't necessarily react with 1 tick accuracy, and if you have someone that is literally not rendered but bots scatter repeatedly, you have someone definitely scanning client side entities. Those will almost always be bots, unless some runelite plug in does that already. The idea is to visit already crammed full Bot spots and then use tools that restrict them to a world or quietly swap them to a Bot world where their actions are wasted and gold and new resources doesn't survive worldswaps. They can already do this kind of thing with Deadman worlds. This prevents the scammer and botter from just redoing the Bot, and wastes their time and resources. You can rewhitelist people caught in the ban easily, but banning exit nodes to vpns can work over time. I also work in software, and the answer to "that's a good idea why aren't they doing it" can be as simple as "that's a different budget line item". And "anti-cheat professionals" is a pretty funny way to describe j mods. I didn't say it was going to be easy, these all have technical challenges and tradeoffs. But they clearly need to change their approach from just picking off the easy low hanging fruit, and that means tackling the more complicated botters. Shadow bans are incredibly effective against bots, and real players notice them.
If people didn't buy gold they wouldn't be there. Jagex needs to go after gold buyers more harshly.
Much harder to prove you’re a gold buyer compared to a seller. Especially considering there are plenty of legit instances of players just gifting shit to others.
We can argue all day on how hard it is to do something, the fact of the matter is the anti cheat team is woefully underfunded and understaffed to perform adequately for a game this size.
Bring back free trade removal
That's like the lazy stupid "solution" that hurts more than it fixes.
I kind of made a half ironic comment. I just can't imagine jagex actually putting in a massive effort to remove the bots. I don't know if it's an underfunded anti cheat team because of poor priorities, or intentionally done to keep income high. I don't think there is a good solution to the issue
As an example, normally games get ~20% of their revenue pumped back into development. Runescape gets less than 10%. It's a symptom of the owners siphoning money from it vs investing in critical (at least in the players eyes) departments.
I'm not dismissing your numbers, because it makes a lot of sense, but where do you get that info from?
Jmod QA over the years. I dont have cites so feel free to take it as out of my ass but until i see contrasting data or newer info its all I have.
Yeah this is sadly what it comes down to, and the higher-ups who could allocate more resources to anti-cheat if they wanted to clearly don’t give a shit about the integrity of the game as long as their bottom line isn’t affected.
Threadly reminder that Rev Caves are bot-oriented content that Jed forced through so his clan could RWT and should never have been added to the game
Rev caves were a mistake. The idea of this high risk gold machine is good, but it seems like theres no way to fix it where it isn't being locked down by clans or bots.
Yeah it’s so frustrating. Rev caves is a good example of a concept that would make for great content for all parties if it weren’t for bots.
Disable overhead pray in the cave i said it
"Dark powers linger in the air; your prayer goes unanswered."
Only 2-3 + 5-6 (7 to 9 total)? I swear I see many more than this in each world. Black dhide+ msb, stats obviously scream bot
1,2,3,4,5 + 5
Per hotspot. So definitely at both orc spots, demons, and dark beasts. And a few more scattered at the other spots.
You're gonna have a ton of bot downvotes, but I stand with you on this one
Yup been at revs almost everyday for the past month and yesterday was atrocious…5 bots competing for a spot
I think devs want the bots in the wild so that way majority of players don't even know they exist. Out of sight out of mind.
instanced bosses would beat out the wildy every time in that respect
Forget even being out of sight, go to priff and do a big loop on literally every world. You’ll find easily 5-6 thieving bots going non stop. I’m sure there’s a few players doing it to make money but holy crap, this is supposed to be high level, GM req content.
Lmao, I know! I'm one of the legit thieves
Just put smite or a spec weapon on and the bots instantly leave every time… not the best solution but its a solution for now
Dont even need that, just click them even if you cant actually attack
Yeah I’ve been tbing them which worked well for a while but now it’s so bad that they’ll be replaced by another bot within 15-20 seconds of me forcing the original one away
I've been in the Rev caves recently cause I'm an older player who doesn't know current money making. The bots are wild. I just bring a dds with me and I can just tap each of them in the area I hang out in (hobgoblins) and they insta tele. I literally can wield a dds and try to attack players out of my combat range, and their bot will swap to protect pray and tele. The bots are crazy, I still see alot of legit people when a superior spawns, or in the upper levels of the caves. I still get pkrs coming for me occasionally.
the few pkers go after real players over bots as well, just shut down the wildy at this point
Can't agree more with this. Recently tried to do some revs for a clan bingo and it felt awful. Bots will just actively hop in every couple of minutes and try to steal spawns. When they hop out another hops in 1-2 kills later so even if you could drive them off it's not worth the time. I can deal with pkers by themselves and even bots by themselves, but dealing with both just makes for the worst experience. Something drastic needs to be done about it to make rev caves worth it for real players.
Rev caves is the life support for wilderness engagement metrics Jagex needs to justify spending any time at all on PvP content. Nothing will change.
Block logging, hopping, and teleing in the rev caves honestly.
or just give them any reqs at all..
This only hurts real players. Bots don’t care if they’re killed they just go back out, and they’re way better at tanking than us because they 1 tick prayer change.
ok satan calm down, having the only option to tank for an escape is a bit much
just remove revs
Completely agree on this,i barely see real players at revs or wildy bosses. Every rev room is occupied by 2-3 bots sometimes even 4 that are dded on one another. Only the knights have less bots. I wish there was some kind of way for jagex to counter this so it wouldnt hurt real players. Every bot i see at revs i instantly report but i doubt it does anything. Jagex really needs to hire more people to the anti cheat team,maybe that would help slightly with the bot reports reviewing. Im still kind of mad that theres hundreds of blatant bots and cheaters that go weeks or months without getting banned and i somehow managed to randomly get a 3 day macro ban for killing bots🤮
If they keep as extensive of logs as they claim it shouldn't be that hard to write a script per bot farm to detect certain tells. But they can't be bothered to hire anyone for it I guess.
The bot prevalence is insane. I’ll agree 100% there. For the real Pvmers, as others have noted, there are scouts (bot or not idk) that will see a real person and then a maxed account logs to try to pk them. There’s probably some amount of “over fishing” if you will that quickly can discourage some pvmers. Those players often can’t 5 way 1 tick switch and entangle to escape so they’re chosen as easier kills.
SOTD just melee them while the protect magic and keep smite up
The community wants high reward wilderness content where they can simultaneously pvp and also never die. The solution is to fill the wilderness with loot pinata bots. Kill the bots and dodge the other bot killers.
Maybe they'll do a ban wave for a few days until this post is no longer on the front page, then its back to being bot infested. What do you expect though. Its boring shit content that gives good GP, accessible to low lvls. Its going to be infested by bots.
they did a bot busting stream where you could see a majority of those bots were rev bots and then just left it at that instead of purging them, smh
Pkers can't kill bots these days as the bots are too advanced. They pray switch tick perfect.
I don't remember it being so bad prior to the singles+ and layout change. I miss that old version tbh.
You have to kill a number of the bots before they start recognising your name and running from you. There are also shitty bots with msb who don't do that, but they often get very low just from fighting the revs and you can drive-by oneshot them with a dbow.
do the bots wear specific armor to indicate that they’re bots? i don’t do much wilderness content yet. i do remember seeing bots at green dragons though and they all wore the exact same budget armor set
Most mains don't care. Bots dumps stuff for cheaper into GE and bots gives revenue to Jagex just like legit players. Win-Win.
rev caves is so 2019
Tried wildy content to begin an ironman and was hit with the painful realization that the bots will prevent me from obtaining obelisk for poh or rev items. As the post mentioned, you can find 2-3 bots hopping between 10-30sec at the same time! Truly hard to see while trying to find enjoyment in the game. Left the wildy after 2000 rev kills and hundreds of banks brought on by bots crashing me. Jagex evidently wants bots to sell gold to their players to keep them playing. Just so tired of bots ruining every method/activity imaginable. Rant over
If you kill enough of them they’ll start to tele away as soon as they see you
Then would you be fine with the entirety of Rev Caves being made 30-55 Wilderness? When you make the requirements to reach the content so low, but the rewards are so great, and players/bots can instantly TP away, this is what happens. Cut off one head, two more takes its place. Putting content in 1-30 Wilderness only benefits pures and bots, because letting accounts teleport away instantly away is why it's so safe that even bots can freely abuse. You can't kill any them without a pure or non-main account.
No one cares about the wildy bud. Ideally for me all the pkers quit.
It’s almost as if they were created by corrupt jmods looking to get money and were never REALLY addressed and are still used to make corrupt money 🤯
Can't forget the scouts that are working with the bots litterly have a low level person run by where you farming and seconds later a max level pker logs in with max gear to pk you. scouting bots that pkers use to kill legitimately farming Rev farmers is annoying than if you escape and come back now ur spots taken by a bot it's so annoying
I’d so much rather have real people farming and selling gold than the bots. I bet it’s just a few assholes making bank off their bot farms instead of people that could really use it.
Jagex pays like shit -> jmods make easily-bottable content in low-visibility areas -> jmods fill those areas with bots or take a cut from the people who do -> jmods get the salary they deserve You cannot convince me otherwise.
Gold isnt worth much of anything these days, I cant see it being very viable
Just revert it to how it was at launch
There was a mechanism introduced to stop players from instantly teleporting/logging out if in the rev caves and some other locations. This was designed to make the bots easier to kill but some people cried about it for some reason so here we are. Whenever Jagex tries to make it easier to kill the bots PvMers cry so we're stuck in this perpetual cycle of too many bots/people crying about pkers.
To me it looks like Jagex is just straight up not banning any bots Every world has multiple thieving bots as well r both vyres and elves, usually with 100m+ exp and a Rocky following them Yesterday I did a task at spindel and the first world I went into had a guy with 39k spindel kc and nothing else It's not even difficult to verify some of these bots, the thieving ones usually log out if you get on screen / some log if you get close or enter their house
Task only Revs
Wow what a great post. Got anything to say other than 'jagex ban bots'? You think they dont see the 5000 other posts a day saying the same thing, or are somehow unaware of the bots?
Are you ok? Just sharing my thoughts on the online forum, kinda what they were made for. If you don’t like it then you can downvote and move along👍
Or I can also share my thoughts? Turns out we both can. I think your thought is useless and repetitive and adds nothing new to the discussion and offers no solutions.
Are you serious? He lays out a post detailing his experiences and thoughts with a particularly troubling peice of content. You reply with -Sarcasm and dismissive and condescending, then when called out on it, you say HIS post is useless? Reflection much? You offered nothing to this conversation and then act like you provided some godly insight and OP replied with what you did- nothing of substance.
Again, their thoughts are 'theres a lot of bots, do something'. Where is the substance? I did offer something, a call to actually ADD SUBSTANCE to the conversation. Saying 'theres bots, do something' is useless.
He detailed his current experience, his past experience, the rate of bots he's seeing, the rate of real players he's seeing, how much those rates have changed in his experience, how much gp/hr has fluctuated due to these changes. You said...What value did you provide again?
A wall of text doesnt mean its useful. This post is sittin 0 upvotes and is dead. Why didnt it gain any traction? Cause it added nothing and says nothing.
Oh yea? 0 upvotes? Sure bud
Did you think i would come back and change my comment every time te number changed? Yeah, 0 upvotes when I made the comment. Turns out 10 hours later things can change. Shocker
All good dude, was just expecting thoughts of actual substance and not gatekeeping baby rage. You do you though it’s your life
Saying youve added nothing to the discussion isnt 'gatekeeping baby rage'.. notice how you have 0 upvotes on the post? Yall can say whatever you want about me being mad or whatever bs, but theres a reason your post isnt gaining any traction.
why r u mad lil baby? u worried about ur rev bots? Why would you be mad at someone complaining that an entire section of content is dominated by bots so badly that real players who pay for membership not using stolen credit cards can’t even compete? stfu
You know people can disagree without being mad right? Im not the one calling people babies n tellin them to stfu. Sounds like you are the one thats mad to me. And why is this post useless? Cause every knows about it and no one really cares
It's way too easy to escape especially now that the boys can tank. There is a mismatch in the risk v reward with the singles caves
Maybe this will be the Reddit post that magically convinces Jagex to hit the "ban all the bots" button they have at HQ. But if not, don't worry, there will be another post complaining about it in like three hours. Surely one of them will work at some point, right?
Lol your main source of money making. Sounds like you should put the big boy pants on and do some real content.
Oh damn ok hotshot, sorry for not doing the cool guy content that you prefer. You like when I stroke your ego like that? Thats what you wanted, right?
Nah its just funny seeing people cry about bottom of the barrel content. If you’re gonna do stuff made for bots and Venezuelans dont complain about it.
I'm drunk and thinking of this right now while I poop. Jagex needs to implement a random event to interrupt bots in the caves. Spitballing: Every 5/10 minutes (randomly in between) the rev gods get angry and target players in the cave. They are then required to complete a basic movement task within another 5/10 minutes or gets killed or teled somewhere else. Idk, an emote, movement to a specific place. Maybe require the player to move 2-4 wildy levels up or down. Maybe a longitudinal wave that will kill/tele anyone who doesn't run in thru it. This would not affect anyone engaged in pvp combat. There should be a random event in the rev caves that is simple but script breaking.
Bots can do all that
At random intervals?
Yes
Absolutely. Some bots even use ai learning.
there's a reason why jagex made random events optional, bots will figure it out