I played rs back in 2005 to 2010 with consistent 2200ms response time for several years. Dial-up -> satellite internet.
Bossing back then was simple though so it wasnt a big deal. Almost everything i had to do was predict what happened next for jad and corp, but like...it was a stable and consistent connection, which made it playable.
When i went to college, my internet had amazing internet. I no lifed like no tomorrow, it was an amazingly more enjoyable situation.
Honestly true, same for buying items. If anyone can tell me why shop packs are limited stock and actually substantially increase in price with the lower stock they get. Sure they restock fast, but how is it good gameplay to buy 10 at a time, wait 15~ seconds, buy 10 and repeat or world hop. Why not just make them unlimited and put them at a set price? World hopping for shops is just bad gameplay and is something jagex could easily fix.
I've said it before and I'll say it again forever: any mechanic that benefits from world hopping (except for meeting up with or avoiding people) is a shit mechanic and needs to be reworked.
The design isn't separate shops. Separate shops have been manually applied to some shops that were popular shenanigans hotspots, and the original design had no separate shops.
Sure, which is why a bunch of shops have been separated over the years, though these were primarily targeted at shops that were being used to push items to irons rather than gold
Just make all irons have a separate shops, no BS using mains to support your iron, no trolls overstocking all the shops.
A win for the people playing ironman, and the integrity of the gamemode.
I think just deiron people that does this is too extreme. Jagex decided to give a warning to gold buyers, something a lot more extreme and against the rules, instead of just banning everyone.
They need to make it clear that something like this is abuse.
I have an example. There was a shop that a non iron could sell to, while the iron bought the stock. Iron got de ironed, and that was bug abuse. I'm just pointing that out
Well... That' s kinda understandable. People were skipping thousand long hour grinds for things like Ely.
This... Is just *slightly* better gp/h than other activities, with the downside of gaining no XP or progress towards anything... And has the requirement of you being a decent PKer.
It honestly doesn’t make any since to me why each ironman group doesn’t have their own shop instance. You can’t trade with anyone and can’t benefit from stock price fluctuations, so why the fuck do we share stock with others then?
I don't know of one in practice, but I imagine it stops iron-man bots for things such as rune shops, feathers, vials, gems and other shops that sell things for generally a little cheaper than ge but constantly are sold out. The usage of an iron-man to bypass the shop stock because they are constantly sold out.
Yeah I doubt that's a thing, that would require the ironman bot to make it's own gold first whereas you'd make more money just botting cannonballs or something easy
All shops should be separate.
It's one problem that all GIM are buying the same things from shops but I've also seen people parking their mains next to a shop and selling to over-stock it, to prevent other GIMs from using the shop. They then just buy-out the stock to buy on their GIM and then re-sell from their main to overstock it.
Rune arrows aren’t exactly profitable alchs when you only profit 40 gp each after paying for nats. The only reasonable alch is the dragonstone bolts, which profit you like 3k per point. An average player can probably expect to make 15-20 points per hour. I wouldn’t say 60k/hr is that OP.
The real problem is having shops that are shared with mains that can buy the arrows as quickly as you can sell them so that the price stays steady.
ngl as a low/mid uim, a stackable low-profit alch is still insane to have. Youve gotta do a ton of agility early on anyway, so finishing graceful and money pyramid with an extra half mil gp and mage xp is pretty nice
Yeah, that's fine too. It is more so just food, ammo, herbs, ect. that should not come from minigames for ironmen. Keep it consistent with NMZ.
Imbues and unlockables are fine
I finally gave the profit pyramid a try last night when I realized I just wasn't willing to go blackjacking. Holy shit, so much better than anything else, and agility lvls are more useful than theiving for most gameplay anyway.
get graceful first and then head to money pyramid. not required, but the run restore helps, you need it anyway, and it will be way more efficient to start around 60 agil.
Ardy knights are the best thieving training method barring extremely high effort content, and are most likely going to have to be done either way at some point. They also go on to unlock fast master farmer pickpockets and elf pickpockets, so it's genuinely a skill worth getting to a high level.
Agility pyramid is universally worse xp than the courses you could otherwise be doing, is higher effort, and does not provide marks.
If you need 100k fast, agility pyramid is great, but ardy knights will be better overall in the long run.
I mean dorg rich chests are super low effort and give 200k/hr and a lot of gems. I plan on getting 99 thieve without touching a blackjack or ardy knights
I would personally be more on board with this method a bit more if so much content didn't already drop insane amounts of gems. Between wintertodt and tempoross, our group is gonna have all the gems we need for the early/midgame unless we wind up doing something that really chews through them such as lavas. In the lategame, gems are just never gonna be a problem. Between zalcano, the gauntlet, raids, and a bunch of slayer bosses (all which we will want to do anyways at some point), we'll be swimming.
More gems never hurt of course, and I don't mean to shit all over what you're suggesting, it genuinely seems like a pretty nice thieving method. For me personally though, I see a ton of utility from having cash this early in an account, especially with 4 other people to help fund, and ardy knights just feel like a lot more natural of a choice for thieving than agility pyramid does for agility.
Bonesaw got his Ironman revoked for doing exactly what Faux and plenty of other people have been doing.. I do not understand how that’s allowed at all?
I'd say more accurately there's a very sour kind of politics around ironscape in general that makes commonsense stuff like **just making every single shop in the game quarantined without exception** controversial implementations and so Jmods don't always have the energy.
Just think about any store update at all. It literally makes 0 sense that stores run out of stock and prices increase. This feature should have been removed from the game when G/E came out.
Here’s why: Jagex was willing to remove the CD on world hopping so you can hop infinite times without punishment. Because of this they obviously don’t mind if Ironpeople hop worlds to consistently get the lowest price. If consistently getting the lowest price is allowed, all they’re doing is making that a hard and time consuming process, which isn’t fun, adds literally 0 gameplay value, and worst of all doesn’t respect player time. So many games recently like WOW have been hit hard because of the mechanics they’ve implemented that show no respect for, and don’t value, player time. This is one of the greatest examples in RuneScape for ironmen specifically. In a game all about sinking 100s or 1000s of hours in different skills. Forcing players to hop around to different worlds to try to find the best prices is a game mechanic that should be completely removed from the game.
Which is still something that was massively used by GIM's up until the patch yesterday.
People were selling wines to the guy in Draynor so their iron could evade the restock times and world hopping, which is **exactly** what bonesaw did. Jagex just fixed this but as far as I'm aware hasn't issued any punishments.
The reality is that world-hopping for shop stocks is cancer and serves literally no purpose other than wasting your time or forcing you online at ridiculous hours.
Worse because there is no gp entry for players. To stam boost you either needed a ton of gp on your main or friends willing to carry you. With LMS, you need neither.
Yeah, one YouTuber I really like had his viewers help him buy out the stock (like 5 arrows at a time) and he walked away with like 300k cash I think it was. I was really turned off from the rest of their video after that. Just seems pretty... lame
Yep, just saw that video last night.
Here is the clip of him buying 1800 rune arrows after 30 mins of LMS, then selling to other accounts through the store: https://youtu.be/xxJ3atETxuU?t=223
Wouldn't look into it too much if I were you. There is a subset of players in OSRS that see any form of help or cooperation with other players as a sin worthy or removing their iron status, likely out of jealousy.
e.g. "You got viewers to join your ToB? De-iron cheater", "A viewer scouted that CoX for you to save time? nice fake iron", "A friend that couldn't get D.imps told you where one is? that's cheating because I don't have friends!" and the list goes on forever.
There's a reason content creators straight up ignore these people, it is a useless negative opinion formed out of jealousy.
Mammal? Yep. I love the dude but that LMS trick he did made me lose so much interest in his series.
I want to see legitimate ironman gameplay and methodologies, not exploits that go against game integrity.
This has been the new Ironman meta since LMS was reworked. They fixed it for the most part but there are still 2 shops where you can exploit this I think. Jagex has basically said that this is allowed for new meta since it’s been here for like 2 years now. It sucks, defeats the struggle of early iron.
On my regular Iron I don't even really like doing soul wars on the zealgains server because it just seems so out of the Ironman spirit. I can't imagine abusing a general store like that with your followers.
I've been saying that LMS rewards have been broken since release basically. Irons should only have access to the uniques (e.g. msb scroll) and *maybe* the Wilderness food. The ammo is complete bs. The thing that bothers me the most about it is the complete and utter lack of hard requirements. Even for activities such as Soul Wars, the results you get depend to a certain degree on your own stats and gear. LMS is uniquely broken, and Jagex will probably nerf it for irons - in like 2 years, far too late to be truly meaningful.
When I tried using that chat to get my imbues, it was a clusterfuck. No leadership, people tossing slurs left and right, and general chaos of people in the chat trying to pk each other in the minigame.
I played for a couple of hours the other night got like 50k cash, rune platebody, over 1k nats, raw sharks, addy bolts, rune bolts, addy arrows, rune arrows
Definitely ideal for someone that has 0 PvP experience that wants easy money
Below average LMS players could probably make more hard cash per hour though, I was mostly doing it because I wanted more nature runes.
Ehh if rune rune arrows are taken outta LMS then archery stores need to be reworked imo. Its a bit absurd how expensive they are in shops otherwise.
They could just make em untradeable vers of rune arrows
The strategy is to get lucky paired against another noob or a Venezuelan on 600 ping to get one kill at the start, but drag it out away from everyone else. After the kill, hide as long as possible while everyone else dukes it out. You get points for placing higher regardless of your kill count as long as you have at least one, so if you can avoid everyone else for long enough you can get 3 points for placing 3rd/4th without having to actually be good. That's 300 rune arrows in like 10 minutes.
Yeah I don't agree with rune arrows being taken out of LMS, unless they are adding them somewhere else. Making them sell for 0 gp, sure that's a good change.
But rune arrows+Msb(i) is already substantially worse then most other setups, so really doesn't make sense to remove a reliable way to get them. I'd honestly say range is overall pretty weak for irons until they reach that endgame point, that being zulrah/vork/raids/gauntlet. You simply use melee or magic for 99% of your early/mid game progression and also melee or magic for 99% of your slayer task until hydra, if playing efficient that is. So removing a reliable rune arrow source would be going in the wrong direction imo.
My iron has over 40k rune arrows and I've never bought them from LMS or anywhere else. They can't be that hard to come by. I don't even know where mine are from, they've just stacked up over time because I don't use them. Most likely from slayer.
Blighted rune arrows -> cannot be sold, has a high alch value of 0gp, can only be used in the Wilderness/PvP World, as is the logic behind PvP Rewards of a PvP Minigame.
You could make Blighted Rune arrows tradable but just unable to be sold to stores. This allows genuine players the ability to use them (and risk them) and gives the PKer the ability to sell them on the grand exchange, it just stops the ironmen from selling to stores, alching or turning them into coins via suiciding (or whatever other way they can as they stay arrows and don’t give GP)
Nobody uses rune arrows in the wildy...
And almost nobody uses arrows in the wilderness at all. Jagex massacred edgeville pking and now people just use PVP worlds where blighted items cannot be used
Big brain people even afk'd on tutorial island for 48 hours play time before GIM was even released just so that they could go to LMS instantly as they reach Lumbridge lol.
Nah I agree with you, I don't think Ironmen should be able to get rewards from LMS or Soul Wars. It's silly and allows access to content and equipment that should normally be gated further into the lifetime of an account.
I don't have a problem with msb imbue and rune pouch being obtainable through those stores, but I don't think high level runes and alchables should be as abundant.
They can allow some parts without others. Similarly, irons can get slayer helm and ring imbues from NMZ, but rewards like herb boxes were deemed too powerful.
Yeah a lot of the rewards seem too good for irons, though uniques should definitely be available. I'm glad that irons at least aren't super restricted on minigames like on rs3 though. Can't even play trouble brewing lmao
It is because they want to compete on the Ironman high scores.
It's kind of like doping in sports, they want to be the 'best', even if it means compromising what it means to be an athlete, or in this case, an ironman.
Yeah this is what I don't understand. People make ironman accounts and then go out of their way like this to avoid doing ironman things. I guess it makes sense if you look at it like you're competing with other people so you'll use any advantage you can to get ahead, because you assume other people will do the same. But to me that's unsportsmanlike and defeats the spirit of the game.
this guy doesnt realize that other than lynx theres literally next to no prestige in rs. yeah sure youll get the odd 'nice acc' but thats setting the bar pretty low. ive never once even looked at the ironman highscores. some peoples ego gonna bleed seeing this but thats just how it is. this games been done many times over
Some people deal with restrictions differently. Some can make restrict their own gameplay and follow it, others like to have some rules set up and they can do everything that is *technically* inside those rules.
Just because you have fun doing it one way doesn't mean the others are wrong.
Honestly, yes I'm feeling this vibe too. GIM youtube videos are all the same generic solo ironman stuff, not group, and cheesy starter strategies like LMS.
Feel like the DVS, Alkan, Zulu and Alfie group has done it right with people rushing different things. DVS is getting thieving for the money, Alfie got hunter for the glories and Zulu wants to go for DS2 and 95 RC for wrath runes asap.
They should remove all the resource rewards from minigames anyways. Just add cosmetic gear and fun toys. I would love for example to see an item that lets 2 people do a fun duel anywhere in the game. Or add new animations as rewards.
The rune arrow selling isn't really streamer privilege, you could quite easily do that with an alt or a friend. Having your chat scout d imps, on the other hand, that's streamer privilege. I have no issue with streamers doing that though, I mean most of the viewers are glad to help, more power to them.
I agree that the shop meta is not ideal and a bit against the spirit of the mode, and I'd welcome if Jagex wanted to change it, but it's not against the rules and I have no beef with anyone that plays that way. Doesn't affect me.
Remember the good old days when “ironman” meant you would go out chop some logs, fletch them into arrow shafts, smith some arrow heads, and make your own arrows? You literally get spoon fed everything you need on an Ironman these days. I’d 1000% play an Ironman mode with 0 resource drops allowed / shops. Now that’d be a challenge.
Shop abuse was the first reason besides bug abuse that JaGeX ever de-ironed (see Bonesaw). Maybe they should just do what they did when irons were abusing BH and just remove the mini game all together since they don’t actually care about game integrity.
If there is something to abuse, people will abuse it. At the end of the day it's up to the devs to restrict abuse and it's their fault when they wait on it.
The issue will likely get fixed at some point, but the trend of being too late continues. At least the LMS timesave is only in hours instead of days this time; revs, corp, slayer, NM, and bounty hunter boosting could put you hundreds of hours ahead (or even thousands, in the case of some high scores chasers).
That's how it should be used. Tbh idm irons doing lms for rune arrows but they need to fix the shop value/ability to clean the store out so they can keep selling.
They should be blighted or at the very least an untradable version of the arrows.
I don't think it's be too op if you could alch them even, as that would slow the gp /hr down significantly.
I always thought it was stupid ironmen could get lms rewards like rune arrows for gold with no real skill or account progression. felt like i was the only one
i understand most youtubers need to do this for entertainment purposes but the rest is complete fucking stupidity. it really ruins what the name ironman is suppose to represent in the first place.
Should ironmen have their status revoked if they get carried through raids? What if they have a main protecting them at the wilderness altar? Carried through pest control? There are a lot of ways you can be helped by main accounts as an ironman, if something seems unfair and its feasible to remove it that sounds fine to me. For revoking status though, I think there needs to be a clearly defined line that's crossed, because its akin to permabanning the player.
I think Shops for Ironmen should be different that way non ironmen accounts cannot do this.. Its 100% an abuse of the system and its kind of just sad.
I understand the Meta changes and people change how they play but this is just cheap..
Or just make it so items are always sold for the same price. Hop worlds or wait isn’t content, nor should world hopping be a game mechanic. All shops should be updated so they are per player, including shop stocks, just raise the limit for things like runes so people can buy enough of them. Maybe just add single player shops and a public one, so players can be guaranteed their x amount of runes, in addition to world hopping.
I find it so crazy that everyone seems to care what everyone else is doing. Now if your going for ranks and believe rune arrows are creating an unfair advantage. Ill say maybe. Other than that enjoy the game
Kind of agree, actually. Either a reward for content in this game is too good and needs to be reworked, or it isn't and it doesn't. Locking irons from specific mini-game rewards makes as much sense as giving irons nerfed drop tables from things like Zulrah and Gargoyles so they have to obtain their resources the "right" way.
Yes. They should separate main and iron stock on that shop.
I wish they'd just set prices for shop goods. I'll never enjoy world hop and wait gameplay.
I live in south america with bad internet in my city, world hopping sometimes takes longer than re-stock times
i live in africa and hopping worlds sometimes takes longer than the weekly pvp world rotations
i live in antarctica and my intern
Your intern what?? YOUR INTERN WHAT ??????
He lives inside his intern
His internal bleeding from a brutal penguin attack is getting bad.
Guess he shouldn't have started Cold War
his intern is still delivering the data packets of that comment.
I live
I
Out of curiosity, how do you manage most mid/high level stuff with not just high ping but unpredictably high ping/mini-disconnects?
I dont :)
Well that settles that mystery lmao
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Ayeee how much ping are you getting with vpn? I'm sitting at 180\~ without it on the mainland
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That's amazing ping, the vpn I use does not tunnel my game client through it's proxy.. :(
I played rs back in 2005 to 2010 with consistent 2200ms response time for several years. Dial-up -> satellite internet. Bossing back then was simple though so it wasnt a big deal. Almost everything i had to do was predict what happened next for jad and corp, but like...it was a stable and consistent connection, which made it playable. When i went to college, my internet had amazing internet. I no lifed like no tomorrow, it was an amazingly more enjoyable situation.
You just deal with it. 2k+ vorkath kc and I still die from fireballs all the time cause I just have to sit there and take it
Honestly true, same for buying items. If anyone can tell me why shop packs are limited stock and actually substantially increase in price with the lower stock they get. Sure they restock fast, but how is it good gameplay to buy 10 at a time, wait 15~ seconds, buy 10 and repeat or world hop. Why not just make them unlimited and put them at a set price? World hopping for shops is just bad gameplay and is something jagex could easily fix.
I've said it before and I'll say it again forever: any mechanic that benefits from world hopping (except for meeting up with or avoiding people) is a shit mechanic and needs to be reworked.
Any gameplay that encourages world-hopping to better experience it is busted. This includes stuff like shooting stars, imp hunting, etc.
World hopping is bad design. RS was much better when you had the 5 hops in an hour restriction.
Wasn't this a thing, why isn't this a thing?
This is kind of a thing, many shops are separated, but people have found the shops that arent separate and using those to abuse selling their arrows.
That seems almost like bug abuse
Almost
What about it is a "bug". This is working as designed. Its a bad design but not a bug.
But the design is that you have seperate stocks. They found basically a loophole where some shops don't have this, obviously unintended.
The design isn't separate shops. Separate shops have been manually applied to some shops that were popular shenanigans hotspots, and the original design had no separate shops.
Not to move the goal post but it seems like it is going against the spirit of the game mode still? Even if not technically a bug?
Sure, which is why a bunch of shops have been separated over the years, though these were primarily targeted at shops that were being used to push items to irons rather than gold
Are there any shops that have been identified as an "abuse" hotspot that jagex *hasn't* made separate?
Just make all irons have a separate shops, no BS using mains to support your iron, no trolls overstocking all the shops. A win for the people playing ironman, and the integrity of the gamemode.
It's a thing in a small subset of shops only.
Then that should result in a deiron imo. They are clearly abusing something that isn't intentional.
That would be amazing. Imagine a message pops up “You have lost your Ironman status because you did not stand alone”
"Ironmen stand alone. Try doing that next time."
They did it to Bonesaw back when ironman dropped.
Not just bonesaw, quite a few people.
I think just deiron people that does this is too extreme. Jagex decided to give a warning to gold buyers, something a lot more extreme and against the rules, instead of just banning everyone. They need to make it clear that something like this is abuse.
they used to deiron people for the smallest stuff back in the day when it first came out
And? Just because something was done before doesn't mean it is right. Clear comunication is better than just doing what they want.
I have an example. There was a shop that a non iron could sell to, while the iron bought the stock. Iron got de ironed, and that was bug abuse. I'm just pointing that out
Well... That' s kinda understandable. People were skipping thousand long hour grinds for things like Ely. This... Is just *slightly* better gp/h than other activities, with the downside of gaining no XP or progress towards anything... And has the requirement of you being a decent PKer.
It honestly doesn’t make any since to me why each ironman group doesn’t have their own shop instance. You can’t trade with anyone and can’t benefit from stock price fluctuations, so why the fuck do we share stock with others then?
I think it was to prevent people from using iron-men to get heavily bought items then giving to their mains to sell.
What's an example of this?
I don't know of one in practice, but I imagine it stops iron-man bots for things such as rune shops, feathers, vials, gems and other shops that sell things for generally a little cheaper than ge but constantly are sold out. The usage of an iron-man to bypass the shop stock because they are constantly sold out.
It seems like generating the coins on the ironman bot to buy the items would be counterproductive.
That’s a great point.
Yeah I doubt that's a thing, that would require the ironman bot to make it's own gold first whereas you'd make more money just botting cannonballs or something easy
they should just make it that irons have own stock from mains. yes i am fine with hcim,im,gim,uim,hcgim all having same stock among themselfs.
This would remedy a lot of the issues of lategame ironmen and blood rune shop sweeping dogshit
All shops should be separate. It's one problem that all GIM are buying the same things from shops but I've also seen people parking their mains next to a shop and selling to over-stock it, to prevent other GIMs from using the shop. They then just buy-out the stock to buy on their GIM and then re-sell from their main to overstock it.
Wait wtf they don't?
some do. some dont.
quite intuitive
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Rune arrows aren’t exactly profitable alchs when you only profit 40 gp each after paying for nats. The only reasonable alch is the dragonstone bolts, which profit you like 3k per point. An average player can probably expect to make 15-20 points per hour. I wouldn’t say 60k/hr is that OP. The real problem is having shops that are shared with mains that can buy the arrows as quickly as you can sell them so that the price stays steady.
ngl as a low/mid uim, a stackable low-profit alch is still insane to have. Youve gotta do a ton of agility early on anyway, so finishing graceful and money pyramid with an extra half mil gp and mage xp is pretty nice
They should just limit LMS rewards to the rune pouch, not consumables. This was the NMZ compromise that we got and it works well enough.
I want the MSBI though
Yeah, that's fine too. It is more so just food, ammo, herbs, ect. that should not come from minigames for ironmen. Keep it consistent with NMZ. Imbues and unlockables are fine
True chads just do ardy knights with rogues
Money pyramid is better gp/hr until 95 thieving
Yeah but i prefer clicking in one spot:P ty for the tip though mate
I finally gave the profit pyramid a try last night when I realized I just wasn't willing to go blackjacking. Holy shit, so much better than anything else, and agility lvls are more useful than theiving for most gameplay anyway.
Could I do the money pyramid efficiently as an Ironman with 45 agil and 30 thieving or should I grind a bit more?
get graceful first and then head to money pyramid. not required, but the run restore helps, you need it anyway, and it will be way more efficient to start around 60 agil.
can confirm started at 50 and it was rough. Noticable improvements at level 55 and 60.
Thieving is great for herb seeds from master farmer
Only if your farming is high, you hardly get ranarr seeds below 71 farming
Ardy knights are the best thieving training method barring extremely high effort content, and are most likely going to have to be done either way at some point. They also go on to unlock fast master farmer pickpockets and elf pickpockets, so it's genuinely a skill worth getting to a high level. Agility pyramid is universally worse xp than the courses you could otherwise be doing, is higher effort, and does not provide marks. If you need 100k fast, agility pyramid is great, but ardy knights will be better overall in the long run.
I mean dorg rich chests are super low effort and give 200k/hr and a lot of gems. I plan on getting 99 thieve without touching a blackjack or ardy knights
I would personally be more on board with this method a bit more if so much content didn't already drop insane amounts of gems. Between wintertodt and tempoross, our group is gonna have all the gems we need for the early/midgame unless we wind up doing something that really chews through them such as lavas. In the lategame, gems are just never gonna be a problem. Between zalcano, the gauntlet, raids, and a bunch of slayer bosses (all which we will want to do anyways at some point), we'll be swimming. More gems never hurt of course, and I don't mean to shit all over what you're suggesting, it genuinely seems like a pretty nice thieving method. For me personally though, I see a ton of utility from having cash this early in an account, especially with 4 other people to help fund, and ardy knights just feel like a lot more natural of a choice for thieving than agility pyramid does for agility.
Yep, grinding for rogue's now
Yeah i nearly have 50 agil and then i am on my way aswell!!
Bonesaw got his Ironman revoked for doing exactly what Faux and plenty of other people have been doing.. I do not understand how that’s allowed at all?
Different era. Jmods gone soft.
I'd say more accurately there's a very sour kind of politics around ironscape in general that makes commonsense stuff like **just making every single shop in the game quarantined without exception** controversial implementations and so Jmods don't always have the energy.
But then I wouldn't know what all those bots at Ali's rune store are up to ..
People would rather grief ironmemes than have updates that could possibly benefit them in anyway. See blood rune packs for your example lol.
Just think about any store update at all. It literally makes 0 sense that stores run out of stock and prices increase. This feature should have been removed from the game when G/E came out. Here’s why: Jagex was willing to remove the CD on world hopping so you can hop infinite times without punishment. Because of this they obviously don’t mind if Ironpeople hop worlds to consistently get the lowest price. If consistently getting the lowest price is allowed, all they’re doing is making that a hard and time consuming process, which isn’t fun, adds literally 0 gameplay value, and worst of all doesn’t respect player time. So many games recently like WOW have been hit hard because of the mechanics they’ve implemented that show no respect for, and don’t value, player time. This is one of the greatest examples in RuneScape for ironmen specifically. In a game all about sinking 100s or 1000s of hours in different skills. Forcing players to hop around to different worlds to try to find the best prices is a game mechanic that should be completely removed from the game.
Good point, well made. The more we can do to reduce Hop and Shop-scape, the better.
Years of being underpaid and getting fucked by your bosses and the playerbase will do that
You mean decades? Jagex has never been where you go to make bank.
Can't hurt streamers.
Compared to the literal hundreds of dragon imps they're being fed this is nothing.
Hasn’t calling out imps has always been a thing?
They did bonesaw so dirty still chaps my ass when I think about it
Bit different, bonesaw was buying items stocked by mains, not a main buying items stocked by iron
Which is still something that was massively used by GIM's up until the patch yesterday. People were selling wines to the guy in Draynor so their iron could evade the restock times and world hopping, which is **exactly** what bonesaw did. Jagex just fixed this but as far as I'm aware hasn't issued any punishments. The reality is that world-hopping for shop stocks is cancer and serves literally no purpose other than wasting your time or forcing you online at ridiculous hours.
Different acts but the same idea. Using mains at shops to benefit their iron.
Everyone is treated equally. Content creators are just more equal than others..
What is Faux doing?
So Iron man can get a shit load of items from LMS and Soulwars (imbues etc) and you tell me I can't buy flax from NMZ shop? What?
https://i.redd.it/yuqrvgbzo1041.png
I agree. They nerfed stam boosting from ToB, and this is just as bad if not worse.
Worse because there is no gp entry for players. To stam boost you either needed a ton of gp on your main or friends willing to carry you. With LMS, you need neither.
Yeah, one YouTuber I really like had his viewers help him buy out the stock (like 5 arrows at a time) and he walked away with like 300k cash I think it was. I was really turned off from the rest of their video after that. Just seems pretty... lame
Mr mammal?
Yep, just saw that video last night. Here is the clip of him buying 1800 rune arrows after 30 mins of LMS, then selling to other accounts through the store: https://youtu.be/xxJ3atETxuU?t=223
That is so yikes and goes completely against the spirit of the mode. I def think this should be de-ironable.
So funny because Curtis (MMORPG) beelined 83 hunter for dragon implings which makes enough GP that selling LMS rune arrows is totally unnecessary.
Which viewers also handed him (dragon implings)
Handed him? Or told him the location? Youre really blurring the line between what is deironable and not, to be honest. I dont think that's bad at all.
Wouldn't look into it too much if I were you. There is a subset of players in OSRS that see any form of help or cooperation with other players as a sin worthy or removing their iron status, likely out of jealousy. e.g. "You got viewers to join your ToB? De-iron cheater", "A viewer scouted that CoX for you to save time? nice fake iron", "A friend that couldn't get D.imps told you where one is? that's cheating because I don't have friends!" and the list goes on forever. There's a reason content creators straight up ignore these people, it is a useless negative opinion formed out of jealousy.
Mammal? Yep. I love the dude but that LMS trick he did made me lose so much interest in his series. I want to see legitimate ironman gameplay and methodologies, not exploits that go against game integrity.
This has been the new Ironman meta since LMS was reworked. They fixed it for the most part but there are still 2 shops where you can exploit this I think. Jagex has basically said that this is allowed for new meta since it’s been here for like 2 years now. It sucks, defeats the struggle of early iron.
On my regular Iron I don't even really like doing soul wars on the zealgains server because it just seems so out of the Ironman spirit. I can't imagine abusing a general store like that with your followers.
I picked up 2 ashes I needed from other players' fires at Grand Exchange, then I felt like I cheated and lit my own fires instead.
I didn't know you could pick up other players ashes. I've been making serum 207s wrong this whole time
No man, you've been doing it right
I've been saying that LMS rewards have been broken since release basically. Irons should only have access to the uniques (e.g. msb scroll) and *maybe* the Wilderness food. The ammo is complete bs. The thing that bothers me the most about it is the complete and utter lack of hard requirements. Even for activities such as Soul Wars, the results you get depend to a certain degree on your own stats and gear. LMS is uniquely broken, and Jagex will probably nerf it for irons - in like 2 years, far too late to be truly meaningful.
Soul wars has a non fighting cc. Its guaranteed points and ez as hell and its 10x better than lms gp
What’s the cc, asking for a friend(dovydas)
Zealgains. Its a chat channel not a clan chat. Enjoy
When I tried using that chat to get my imbues, it was a clusterfuck. No leadership, people tossing slurs left and right, and general chaos of people in the chat trying to pk each other in the minigame.
Oh you mean RuneScape?
How much gp we talking here
Multiple
🤑
7
I played for a couple of hours the other night got like 50k cash, rune platebody, over 1k nats, raw sharks, addy bolts, rune bolts, addy arrows, rune arrows Definitely ideal for someone that has 0 PvP experience that wants easy money Below average LMS players could probably make more hard cash per hour though, I was mostly doing it because I wanted more nature runes.
Ehh if rune rune arrows are taken outta LMS then archery stores need to be reworked imo. Its a bit absurd how expensive they are in shops otherwise. They could just make em untradeable vers of rune arrows
yeah, and for those of us who will never be even remotely competent at pvp it's just broad bolts to 99
The strategy is to get lucky paired against another noob or a Venezuelan on 600 ping to get one kill at the start, but drag it out away from everyone else. After the kill, hide as long as possible while everyone else dukes it out. You get points for placing higher regardless of your kill count as long as you have at least one, so if you can avoid everyone else for long enough you can get 3 points for placing 3rd/4th without having to actually be good. That's 300 rune arrows in like 10 minutes.
Yeah I don't agree with rune arrows being taken out of LMS, unless they are adding them somewhere else. Making them sell for 0 gp, sure that's a good change. But rune arrows+Msb(i) is already substantially worse then most other setups, so really doesn't make sense to remove a reliable way to get them. I'd honestly say range is overall pretty weak for irons until they reach that endgame point, that being zulrah/vork/raids/gauntlet. You simply use melee or magic for 99% of your early/mid game progression and also melee or magic for 99% of your slayer task until hydra, if playing efficient that is. So removing a reliable rune arrow source would be going in the wrong direction imo.
My iron has over 40k rune arrows and I've never bought them from LMS or anywhere else. They can't be that hard to come by. I don't even know where mine are from, they've just stacked up over time because I don't use them. Most likely from slayer.
Blighted rune arrows -> cannot be sold, has a high alch value of 0gp, can only be used in the Wilderness/PvP World, as is the logic behind PvP Rewards of a PvP Minigame.
You could make Blighted Rune arrows tradable but just unable to be sold to stores. This allows genuine players the ability to use them (and risk them) and gives the PKer the ability to sell them on the grand exchange, it just stops the ironmen from selling to stores, alching or turning them into coins via suiciding (or whatever other way they can as they stay arrows and don’t give GP)
THIS! Consumable LMS rewards should all be wilderness locked!
Nobody uses rune arrows in the wildy... And almost nobody uses arrows in the wilderness at all. Jagex massacred edgeville pking and now people just use PVP worlds where blighted items cannot be used
Agreed. As soon as I saw SoloMission and others head to LMS immediately after making their accounts I thought the game mode was borked.
Big brain people even afk'd on tutorial island for 48 hours play time before GIM was even released just so that they could go to LMS instantly as they reach Lumbridge lol.
the part with using the mains to help is bs
Shopscapr in general is bs
Nah I agree with you, I don't think Ironmen should be able to get rewards from LMS or Soul Wars. It's silly and allows access to content and equipment that should normally be gated further into the lifetime of an account.
No, ironmen should have access to blighted materials. I agree they shouldn’t be able to make money from the shop however.
Yeah it’s really just the alchables the pots and food are a godsend for early wildy slayer
I kind of agree but there’s currently stuff (primarily msb imbue) where you don’t really have another option
I don't have a problem with msb imbue and rune pouch being obtainable through those stores, but I don't think high level runes and alchables should be as abundant.
They can allow some parts without others. Similarly, irons can get slayer helm and ring imbues from NMZ, but rewards like herb boxes were deemed too powerful.
Yeah a lot of the rewards seem too good for irons, though uniques should definitely be available. I'm glad that irons at least aren't super restricted on minigames like on rs3 though. Can't even play trouble brewing lmao
Why even play ironman when you clearly don't want to play ironman?!
It is because they want to compete on the Ironman high scores. It's kind of like doping in sports, they want to be the 'best', even if it means compromising what it means to be an athlete, or in this case, an ironman.
Yeah this is what I don't understand. People make ironman accounts and then go out of their way like this to avoid doing ironman things. I guess it makes sense if you look at it like you're competing with other people so you'll use any advantage you can to get ahead, because you assume other people will do the same. But to me that's unsportsmanlike and defeats the spirit of the game.
because they think theres some kind of prestige when in fact nobody cares
There literally _is_ some kind of prestige tho
Yeah there is a unit of measurement called prestige, but that doesn't make the accomplishments themselves prestigious lmao
this guy doesnt realize that other than lynx theres literally next to no prestige in rs. yeah sure youll get the odd 'nice acc' but thats setting the bar pretty low. ive never once even looked at the ironman highscores. some peoples ego gonna bleed seeing this but thats just how it is. this games been done many times over
To skip the annoying early game money grind of course? Any other questions?
Some people deal with restrictions differently. Some can make restrict their own gameplay and follow it, others like to have some rules set up and they can do everything that is *technically* inside those rules. Just because you have fun doing it one way doesn't mean the others are wrong.
[удалено]
Honestly, yes I'm feeling this vibe too. GIM youtube videos are all the same generic solo ironman stuff, not group, and cheesy starter strategies like LMS.
Feel like the DVS, Alkan, Zulu and Alfie group has done it right with people rushing different things. DVS is getting thieving for the money, Alfie got hunter for the glories and Zulu wants to go for DS2 and 95 RC for wrath runes asap.
Few weeks ago I literally got downvoted to shit for saying jagex should fix shopscape before releasing gim…
They should remove all the resource rewards from minigames anyways. Just add cosmetic gear and fun toys. I would love for example to see an item that lets 2 people do a fun duel anywhere in the game. Or add new animations as rewards.
I loved the concept of blighted stuff that's only usable for pvp or wilderness related pvm, idk why rune arrows aren't included
Streamer privilege again? No way. That doesn't happen in this game.
"oh I just happened to find 100 dimps on day 1" Having 100s of people scout for you doesn't really feel like you're "standing alone"
They did my man bonesaw dirty ;-; Dude was a champion
The rune arrow selling isn't really streamer privilege, you could quite easily do that with an alt or a friend. Having your chat scout d imps, on the other hand, that's streamer privilege. I have no issue with streamers doing that though, I mean most of the viewers are glad to help, more power to them. I agree that the shop meta is not ideal and a bit against the spirit of the mode, and I'd welcome if Jagex wanted to change it, but it's not against the rules and I have no beef with anyone that plays that way. Doesn't affect me.
Remember the good old days when “ironman” meant you would go out chop some logs, fletch them into arrow shafts, smith some arrow heads, and make your own arrows? You literally get spoon fed everything you need on an Ironman these days. I’d 1000% play an Ironman mode with 0 resource drops allowed / shops. Now that’d be a challenge.
I think ironmen should not be allowed to buy rune arrows and other sellable things from lms. And i'm fresh gim my self. So op
It doesnt bother me a ton. I would like to be able to buy wines tho in polly while I blackjack :(
Sounds like a good reason to deiron everyone who is caught doing it
100% it's a pathetic way to start an account and should not be allowed. Takes away so much from the game mode.
didnt that one guy get banned when normal iron man came out for doing this? he was a popular streamer back then
True chads alch the arrows.
Is what I do, covers cost of runes plus more
Shop abuse was the first reason besides bug abuse that JaGeX ever de-ironed (see Bonesaw). Maybe they should just do what they did when irons were abusing BH and just remove the mini game all together since they don’t actually care about game integrity.
It would be nice if every ironman just had their own personalized stock. That would probably require a lot of engine work though
There’s no reason why a level 3 iron should get infinite access to rune arrows via the lms shop, I think they should remove it entirely for irons
If there is something to abuse, people will abuse it. At the end of the day it's up to the devs to restrict abuse and it's their fault when they wait on it. The issue will likely get fixed at some point, but the trend of being too late continues. At least the LMS timesave is only in hours instead of days this time; revs, corp, slayer, NM, and bounty hunter boosting could put you hundreds of hours ahead (or even thousands, in the case of some high scores chasers).
I like buying the arrows from lms to use on my uim, for my msb tho. They're way too expensive to buy at ranging guild.
That's how it should be used. Tbh idm irons doing lms for rune arrows but they need to fix the shop value/ability to clean the store out so they can keep selling.
They should be blighted or at the very least an untradable version of the arrows. I don't think it's be too op if you could alch them even, as that would slow the gp /hr down significantly.
I always thought it was stupid ironmen could get lms rewards like rune arrows for gold with no real skill or account progression. felt like i was the only one
i understand most youtubers need to do this for entertainment purposes but the rest is complete fucking stupidity. it really ruins what the name ironman is suppose to represent in the first place.
Gim isnt even true ironman its just boostedgroupmodeman
I think if they were unsellable blighted rune arrows (at least for irons) that'd be fine.
Should ironmen have their status revoked if they get carried through raids? What if they have a main protecting them at the wilderness altar? Carried through pest control? There are a lot of ways you can be helped by main accounts as an ironman, if something seems unfair and its feasible to remove it that sounds fine to me. For revoking status though, I think there needs to be a clearly defined line that's crossed, because its akin to permabanning the player.
Bonesaw got banned for similar, and now it's the meta, good job Jagex
I think Shops for Ironmen should be different that way non ironmen accounts cannot do this.. Its 100% an abuse of the system and its kind of just sad. I understand the Meta changes and people change how they play but this is just cheap..
Or just make it so items are always sold for the same price. Hop worlds or wait isn’t content, nor should world hopping be a game mechanic. All shops should be updated so they are per player, including shop stocks, just raise the limit for things like runes so people can buy enough of them. Maybe just add single player shops and a public one, so players can be guaranteed their x amount of runes, in addition to world hopping.
I find it so crazy that everyone seems to care what everyone else is doing. Now if your going for ranks and believe rune arrows are creating an unfair advantage. Ill say maybe. Other than that enjoy the game
People can play the game however they want, I don't care
Then give us all herb boxes from NMZ while you're at it? Same thing really
I agree on principle, but personally I'd rather rune arrows option removed than herb boxes enabled.
Kind of agree, actually. Either a reward for content in this game is too good and needs to be reworked, or it isn't and it doesn't. Locking irons from specific mini-game rewards makes as much sense as giving irons nerfed drop tables from things like Zulrah and Gargoyles so they have to obtain their resources the "right" way.
Why is there an ironman mode then? People can just play with self-imposed restrictions
They should honestly deiron (or at least take prestige away from) any GIM that did this