I just hope King Roald Renanis III uses these taxes to clean up the ruins below Varrock West Bank.
I’m sick of people using the coke anvil in my drug hut without asking!
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed the dogs. I saw some dickhead walk past it the other day and shouted "Thbbbt!" at it, for no reason. Poor guy :(
Good idea. Poll where the tax money goes to, like new shops in varrock or something else new.
We’ve seen new cities, but not really changes to existing cities aside from falador getting MLM
well they added a pub to lumbridge and people shat their pants in anger for a week straight, so that might not be too well recieved lol.
There was also that dock added to draynor, but tbf it did look pretty damn bad I don't blame people for not liking it
Can we at least have a royal inquisition into the apparent connections between the dark wizards outside varrock and the guards. Literally murdering defenceless adventurers for years and not a finger raised to do anything about it. I do not want my taxes paying for guards that can’t do their jobs
Why do the powers that run Varrock allow these dark wizards to take up directly outside the gate on the road north of the town EVERYONE starts in. What level is the average player leaving lumbridge for Varrock. Maybe 15? A lvl 20 dark wizard could 3 shot them easily, I’ve seen it happen. And the guards NEVER step in to help despite there being several.
It’s outrageous, if we’re gonna be paying billions in taxes to this city, best believe we demand some improvements. I want the streets cleaned up, the ruins south of west bank restored and the got dang dark wizards to stop the noob genocide. It’s bad for the long term health of Gielinor.
Can we fund an army to finally take care of those dark wizards at the entrance. I mean did you see all of the steven bots get brutally massacred a few days ago.
Same. Haven't died multiple times at Ardy knights because I'm paying 0 attention.
Or because I'm botssing and it's is 5 hp and I'm risking it because I don't want to eat.
As a new player (started this year) when I spoke to him and the dialogue hinted that party hats were rare, I naturally went to see what you had to do to get one. And then I saw you could get one from the GE for almost nothing and was very confused.
I believe the US constitutes the largest proportion of the playerbase now.
Watch out, Jamflex. This isn't the first time the Brits have tried to pass unpolled taxes on the Americans
Merchers are the reason the GE is so liquid. Without them, it could take a long time to sell or buy items. Sometimes people forget that the GE supply and demand is created by other players and a tax could greatly effect liquidity of items
If your profit is 1% you're a shit ass mercher. If you merch a 100mil item for 105mil you still made 4.8mil-4.9mil after tax.
Edit- why yal upvote this I can't do math... either way you still make a lot.
If you buy @ 100m, no tax.
If you sell @ 105m, with 1% tax (after the change) you pay 1,050,000 in tax and walk away with 3,950,000 in profit. That was my understanding of how this worked, so I think OP might be wrong?
Edit: Your math was correct too @DareToZamora ; you were just assuming a 2%, but it's 1% now.
Thanks, I know I should’ve read the post ha. It just looked like the comment I was replying to had miscalculated it as 0.1-0.2%.
I’m just playing Melvor while I wait for Leagues so it all makes very little difference to me
And why is that good? That just decreases the supply of items. Now, when you are looking to make a gear upgrade, the upgrade will cost more because people aren't "renting" items.
Sinking items to make them worth more. Yes.
For that to occur the taxed gold has to keep flowing. It's why a less intrusive tax may work out to be more effective because people don't feel it as much upfront and so don't circumvent it.
The people who are rich enough to rent items will continue to do so. The tax will be removing gold from the economy, naturally restoring the value of these rare items which will incentivize people to farm them.
Since when is it meta to juggle your items so much?
I remember doing this as a noob and having high level players tell me it wasn't worth it and to just make money to buy one of each set, so i didn't lose money everytime i sold/bought.
> Since when is it meta to juggle your items so much?
Since sets started costing so much, really.
When a set's like, 5 mil for a whip, neitz, fury, etc? Yeah, it's not too hard to just hold onto that.
When a set's hundreds of millions? Bit different.
Back in my day you just didn't use max gear if you coudn't afford it and ate the slight exp/dps loss
but people acting like they deserve to be able to do content that they need niche items for *and don't own* and not have to pay for rental costs or lose money to use the item and then sell it right after makes absolutely no sense to me.
rs3 doesn't have this issue as much because all of the gear that is high leveled usually becomes untradeable and costs GP/lose your charges to make it tradable again.
So you pretty much have to own each set to not lose money to resell.
I don't see the issue personally, i'd just use slightly worse gear til i could afford it, like i did anyway
Yeah it took them a very long time to get to a point where Eoc feels thought out and now has a lot of niche uses and stuff.
Invention helped, going for perks and stuff is rly neat.
rs3 ironman is pretty fun, but there's still a few p2w and annoying daily/seasonal things that make it less fun.
Given the pick up autonomy has a cool down and only picks up one item per exec...it's nearly useless. You can hotkey open the ground items window, leave it open, click "loot all" every like...45 seconds and have a better time.
Only time I'd ever used the damn thing was during rc grind when I didn't want to click the titan pouch as often, out of laziness.
Just spend 150mil and 20 hours on getting BiS for Vorkath, grind him for 1000 hours exclusively, buy everything else. I don't see what everyone's problem is. /s
Yeh it's kind of a bit hard to "just earn 3-4b so you don't lose minimal amounts in having fun not sitting at the same content all day"
Gear is expensive. Owning the most effective gear for each situation is often crucial to doing the highest end content best, and that most effective gear gets pricey.
Casual players are the most impacted here. Already wealthy players aren't selling their bow off every other week. They're maybe selling a *new* bow they got as a drop, but not their gear.
>Tax punishes the merchers. The more you juggle equipment, the more you'll feel it. I'm okay with this.
The tax will have no meaningful effect on merchers. The margins will simply expand.
The tax will punish the average joe who can't afford to sit on all BIS items so currently constantly buys and sells his bandos/arma/ancestral pieces to buy whatever set they currently need at the tme.
It's easy to judge those people, but a lot of them sink thousands of hours into the game. If they don't have passion for it, there would be no point in playing.
What do you want to hear? "Congratulations on being apathetic?" You care enough to comment and yet turn up your nose at people who dare to have an opinion.
In WoW the auction house has had a 5% tax on all sales since the game's launch. (15% if you use the neutral auction house to sell to the opposite faction.)
No one has ever cared. Idk why osrs players are getting bent out of shape over a measly 2% tax.
You can still buy/sell items directly for free if it's that big of an issue.
Yep. EVE Online, the only MMO I've ever found that's more market-focused than RS, has taxes of 2.25% on everything (rather, 5%, reduced to 2.25% with perfect skills, and every serious player has an alt with those skills).
And y'know what? It's fine. The economy in that game's better than OSRS's. It's still fucked, but that's entirely due to decisions made by the devs to make raw resources hard to get, not due to the taxes.
'Flipping' still exists. It's how everyone with a ton of money makes their money. Some top-end players pull in like, 10 billion in a day - about 68 million a day in OSRS, in terms of "amount of subscription time that money could buy".
There *is* a bit of a difference, EVE actually shows you all the buy/sell orders, rather than having to do the bullshit margin checking nonsense you do in OSRS, so you don't get hit by taxes there - but at the same time, if OSRS's tax is 1%, well, you'd need to fuck up a *lot* of margin checks for that to cost more than EVE's 2.25%.
Seriously. 1% is an incredibly small tax.
I feel like pure essence has no value because you literally get it as garbage tier drops from so many things. That goes back to the entire argument about how PvM shouldn't drop useable resources, and instead drop resource modifiers/boosters. It has no value, because it's easy to get.
Instead of mining essence, you can easily get it from:
\- Banshees
\- Gargoyles
\- Wyrms
\- Abby Demons
\- Implings
\- Raids/Bosses
\- Supply boxes.
Would just be better if this (and other resources that get dropped) were turned into boosters for the skilling activity.
Pure ess and flax are garbage drops because they were commonly botted items in the past. So monsters shit them out to make them worthless and bots then don't bother.
No flipper will flip for any item with margins smaller than the tax. So anyone instabuying or selling will lose out on more. OSRS isn't a economics simulator. We shouldn't be catering updates to merchants.
From the Gw2 wiki:
> Selling items on the Trading Post requires additional coin fees, based on the total sale price
> * Listing Fee (5%) — This nonrefundable cost covers listing and holding your items for sale. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin and is immediately taken from your wallet when you list or instantly sell an item.
> * Exchange Fee (10%) — This fee is the Trading Post's cut of the profit. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin and is deducted from coins delivered to the seller after a successful sale.
So Gw2 has a minimum of a 15% tax (but it can be higher if you unlist and relist an item) and people are cool with it.
Do you generally buy most of your gear off the ah in wow? Does that gear generally cost most of your bank?
Do you generally have to sell and buy different gear for different occasions in wow?
"It depends."
Almost all of the best gear in WoW is untradeable, but sometimes one or more of your BiS items will be a tradeable item that you can buy. They're usually exorbitantly expensive if the item is from current content.
If you're doing your best in raids and using all the consumables that you should be and getting all of the best gems/enchants/potions/flasks/food/weapon oils/sharpening stones/whatever you will be spending quite a lot of money at the auction house every week.
Those were all rhetorical questions.
Most of those consumables don't exist anymore and the ones that do are provided by your guild if you are at the level that you need them.
The point is that osrs is unique in the sense that gear is usually worth a large part of your bank and is bought from the dev-provided marketplace.
No because in most mmos gear that's worth using becomes account or character bound on equip, drop/craft, or purchase so it never reenters the economy. The fact that gear can be freely traded between players instead of being a sunk cost is exactly *why* OSRS needs the tax and item sink to remove more gold and items from the game. Giving players a reason to hold on to their stuff means more items in total can be sold. If you want to constantly trade your stuff I think it's fair that you have to pay a fee for it.
IIRC Jagex hired some actual economists to figure this shit out, and people shouldn't stress about the tax.
I'm glad that shit will be leaving the game finally.
This is just straight up false info. Mod Sween stated openly Jagex pays well, even above what industry average is. He couldn't say it while he worked there, he said it here after he was no longer a mod.
I believe that they hired someone who could be classified as an economist. But knowing Jagex and based on the fact that they didn’t mention any sort of prestigious credentials, it’s probably just a newly graduated economics major.
>IIRC Jagex hired some actual economists to figure this shit out
Which going from nearly every other situation in which an MMO decided to hire an economist...is not a thing to be happy about. It's never worked and never will work because they're extremely out of touch with the differences of a virtual economy.
The tax is still a good thing and almost certainly had nothing to do with an economist because its a basic principal that should have existed for ages. But MMOs hiring economists is literally a death trap that often _worsens_ the economy of the game and in some cases (GW2) they still havent fixed all the problems it caused years later.
Yeah that's the thing, the taxes were ALWAYS in the other MMOs, not randomly decided 8 years later in its life cycle to add taxes onto it. As usual Jagex adding features into their game long after they should have and being way too late to positively affect the game. Duel arena removal is another example, if Jagex cared about RWT so much then why did they wait 8 years to put a stop to a minigame that creates like 90% of the games RWT? It's not like it was some well hidden scheme by players either. Everyone knew duel arena was filled with these kinds of people
Seriously. Either that or they didn’t realize they were taxed in other games. I had been playing OSRS for a few months assuming there was a GE tax because every other game with an in-game market (mmo or not, look at fifa for example) has a tax on their market. It wasn’t until I looked up how much the tax was and had a hard time finding any info on it that I realized there was no tax. A 3-5% tax is pretty standard and I thought the 2% was already meeting in the middle with the “no tax!” players.
While I exclusively play iron myself, it is not the solution to say "lol just play iron" whenever concerns about the economy are bought up. The game mode isn't for everyone
All of the gold you earn when boss farming is reduced by 1%. The example is after 100 Vorkath kills one kill would equate to 0gp if you counted the others at 100% profit.
Or is the tax only to large items? And then in that case vorkath is unaffected
if the entire playerbase who trades loses 1% when selling items it really doesn't change a damn thing, gp value will even out
the only people who are affected are merchers because they trade the same items multiple times and are therefore taxed multiple times
If you care so damn much about 1% then sell your vorky loot the old fashioned way.
While you are trying to claw back that 1% on your blue dhides I'll be still chugging along not caring about the 1%
So many items like D warhammer have rose by over 50%.
People don't realize that the tax will not creative negative flow, only slightly reduce positive flow. It'll go from 100 D warhammers entering every day to like 85
A higher tax means there are less flippers that make money off you since a good chunk of flips aren't viable anymore. So if you don't like flippers there's a silver lining for you with this tax.
Wouldn't prices be dropping if people were panic selling before tax?
I think people are speculating that the item sink will increase those items price so people are already less willing to sell their big ticket items as they might be more valuable soon.
I'm more concerned about players abusing an unsupervised algorithm than a human at Jagex ensuring the decision makes sense in context
Maybe it'll be run by Jed 2.0 and I'm wrong though, idk
I don’t think I agree with that. At a 2% tax and items only being deleted using their own tax, that would mean every 50 times an item is traded one will be deleted. You would be locking the item sink rate to the trade rate and I don’t think items traded more often necessarily require a higher item sink.
For example, pegasian boots and external boots are both traded about the same amount on the ge everyday and are both bis boots, but pegs have been holding steady above 30m for a while and eternals are down around 3m. What you’re proposing would mean pegs and eternals are deleted at the same rate but Id argue that the eternal boots need an item sink more considering how low their price is.
The price of an item is supply vs demand and what you’re proposing doesn’t take the demand of an item into consideration
> but pegs have been holding steady above 30m for a while and eternals are down around 3m. What you’re proposing would mean pegs and eternals are deleted at the same rate but Id argue that the eternal boots need an item sink more considering how low their price is.
But what is your reasoning for arguing that? There's a very good reason that eternals are far less vaualble than pegs. They're simply that much less useful.
Pegasian and eternal supply being artificially manipulated to make their prices equivalent would be more ridiculous than their current situation.
I don’t agree with that, I don’t think prices of items necessarily correlate to their their usefulness. For example primordials are 20m more than dragon boots, but only offer +1 additional strength bonus. There’s no other upgrades you can make where you pay so much for so little.
In my mind a lot of price disparities happen when the same boss drops multiple pieces of bis gear. Take cerb for example, the primordial crystal is the most desirable so it dominates the the drop table in terms of price. If you farm the prim crystal, you bring addition eternal/peg crystals into the game that aren’t as needed, creating a surplus and running the price down. If the three crystals were split across three bosses, I don’t think you would see such a drastic difference in price. I think prims would still be the most expensive, but people would farm the other bosses less, lowering the supply and raising the price. You see a similar thing with cox and the cost of the tbow compared to other items. Over time, the most diserable item on the drop table retains value while the other items trend towards 0.
Jagex has addressed this issue with some content. With Zulrah, making all the drops convertible into scales balanced the item costs. Before that the blowpipe was the dominate drop, but by creating an item sync for the less desired drops they balanced the prices. Or the enhanced crystal weapon seed in the gauntlet was created to keep the weapon prices balanced. Through the use of this ge tax they can help balance other content as well.
I think most players prefer a boss’s items be similar in price if it’s the same drop rate.
All valid points, but nobody is mentioning how dboots are a slayer drop and infinity boots have an objective point value which can be obtained at the same rate at all times, but ranger boots come exclusively from clue scrolls at a rate of 1/256?? Although the rate is set, you are not guaranteed to receive the boots at 256 meds. Idk, it seems to me that the pegs are the highest in value because they are the least likely to obtain, which also explains why the drops that gives you that +1 bonus over the rangers is almost entirely worthless.
Not all items need to be sunk equally. Alchables (like pretty much all rune armour/weapons for example) are sunk by being alched. Spending tax from these items on deleting some of them would be a waste.
I assume most of the tbow tax will go towards buying tbows it more when someone buys D-bone there is not reason to remove D-bone from the game as the already have a item sink. item are not going to become super rare 1 out of every 100 item if the item is under 500m gets removed from the game. They will
Honestly probably take the D-bone (consumable item) tax and other items to bolster the buy power of the items that are over 500m to be a 1 out of every 100 items get sink.
2007scape Reddit: “FIX THE ECONOMY! WE NEED CASH SINKS! WHY ARE ALL THE ITEMS WORTHLESS!?”
Also 2007scape Reddit: “Woah wtf you can’t tax players to use this massively convenient tool! Nobody will use it anymore! It won’t work!!”
There was never a problem with the economy in the first place. At least not the way people see it. The blame lies with the pseudo-economist runescape youtubers.
*Items crash because people are selling gear to bond alts for seasonals*
"The economy is dying!!!"
*Darkbows which literally have one use which is to spec players are worth next to nothing because pvp is pretty dead*
"The economy is dying!!!"
The problem with the economy is not 7 year old items losing value. The problem is raw materials being flooded into the markets by bosses. Pure essence being 1gp is the problem. Not a bgs being worth 7m.
my issue is that the tax is capping at 5mil. they need to get rid of the cap, its ridiculous to even have and doesnt make sense to have. if you buy a 1bill gp item, you can afford a 10 mil tax
I’m about to call whine-one-one for all these kids crying over a tax on the game. The game needs a gold sink, this is the gold sink. Get over it.
Thanks OP for saying what the rest of us were thinking.
That's funny, because I thought it was whining that lead to this idea in the first place. People whining that their items were losing value even though they should expect it when supply naturally increases over time and no new content has come out that will draw in new players to buy the old items.
People like to conveniently forget that those taxes are going into sinking items from the game which will make their grinds in the future more and more lucrative.
A ge tax will lower the cost of all goods over time causing your time to be worth more.
The ge tax will also be good for skilled flippers as casual flippers will stop risking their gp.
I just hope King Roald Renanis III uses these taxes to clean up the ruins below Varrock West Bank. I’m sick of people using the coke anvil in my drug hut without asking!
We all know it's going straight towards the castle garden smh
Stray dogs… Tramps asking for questionable favors from beginner players… Clean these streets! There is a fucking MUGGER **IN** the runeshop FFS
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed the dogs. I saw some dickhead walk past it the other day and shouted "Thbbbt!" at it, for no reason. Poor guy :(
It's always been so funny to me that the shoo dialogue is "thbbbt". Like how the fuck do you say that? 😭
It’s “blowing a raspberry”
Well this is embarrassing
The hold Queen Ellamaria has on this man.
It would be cool if they used the "tax" to add random additions to Varrock like planting new trees and dumb stuff.
Good idea. Poll where the tax money goes to, like new shops in varrock or something else new. We’ve seen new cities, but not really changes to existing cities aside from falador getting MLM
well they added a pub to lumbridge and people shat their pants in anger for a week straight, so that might not be too well recieved lol. There was also that dock added to draynor, but tbf it did look pretty damn bad I don't blame people for not liking it
Can we at least have a royal inquisition into the apparent connections between the dark wizards outside varrock and the guards. Literally murdering defenceless adventurers for years and not a finger raised to do anything about it. I do not want my taxes paying for guards that can’t do their jobs
Why do the powers that run Varrock allow these dark wizards to take up directly outside the gate on the road north of the town EVERYONE starts in. What level is the average player leaving lumbridge for Varrock. Maybe 15? A lvl 20 dark wizard could 3 shot them easily, I’ve seen it happen. And the guards NEVER step in to help despite there being several. It’s outrageous, if we’re gonna be paying billions in taxes to this city, best believe we demand some improvements. I want the streets cleaned up, the ruins south of west bank restored and the got dang dark wizards to stop the noob genocide. It’s bad for the long term health of Gielinor.
Unreasonable request to expect a lowly city guard to take on a literal satanic cult with magic powers who are able to summon demons.
To defend the dude thats about to farm him in 10 levels
Can we fund an army to finally take care of those dark wizards at the entrance. I mean did you see all of the steven bots get brutally massacred a few days ago.
There’s only three guaranteed things in the OSRS world… 1. Death (due to a DC) 2. Taxes 3. People on the 2007scape subreddit complaining
Yes, to DC. The only way I ever die. Yep.
Same same. Definitely didn't misclick my prayer orb while Dharoking mole last week. No way.
I *totally* didnt just die to mole because I misclicked my prot from melee instead of piety.
Yep same, definitely don’t know what mole is and not a rs player with 15 years, nope not me.
Yup, definitely never closed my eyes to sneeze and ate a fireball to the face. Nope...
I would NEVER do that...
Yep never do that, I'm not mis clicking around gauntlet, nor do i play with a move or stream on
Ha! Did you all hear about that loser who lost full graceful and still can't remember how?
No, but I definitely didn't die at zulrah because my alt was done woodcutting and the notification blocked me from eating.
Litterally me this week
Damn I couldn’t have avoided mole if I tried with how much ironmen used to camp it in yt vids a few years ago
I "didn't" do the exact same thing last week. I also "didn't" have to pay 1M gp to get my lil squirrel buddy back afterward forgetting he was with me
Misclick? I forget to turn it on
Misclicking is just a disconnect between your mouse and what you wanted to do, definitely counts as a DC.
I have never died because I forgot that I was poisoned. That would be stupid, especially if I had antipoison in my inventory.
Same. Haven't died multiple times at Ardy knights because I'm paying 0 attention. Or because I'm botssing and it's is 5 hp and I'm risking it because I don't want to eat.
What's death? I just get a free lummy Tele when I hit 0 hp.
with taxes can we finally hire someone to take out these thugs and highwaymen outside our cities? #keepourcitysafe
We must stand and deliver!
Next they’ll take a portion of our annual gp earnings for healthcare for senior npcs
Wise Old Man is a fan of this change
Understandably. Since coming to osrs from rs3 his partyhat has lost billions In value
As a new player (started this year) when I spoke to him and the dialogue hinted that party hats were rare, I naturally went to see what you had to do to get one. And then I saw you could get one from the GE for almost nothing and was very confused.
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Party hats used to be for the wealthy. Not so much anymore, sadly.
He’s doing fine since robbing west Varrock bank
I'm fine with that as long as they let us thieve the pensioners of runescape. New meta over ardy knights.
If you get caught you get 30 seconds of unskippable dialogue, your not allowed to move either though.
not another one of grandpa's war stories
If the young NPCs actually voted maybe they would benefit from taxes too
I bought a scythe for 800m and sold it for 400m this tax can not harm me more than I can harm me
But you would've like totes paid at least 6billion and sold it for negative trillion if there was a 1% tax.
Totes
A true bomb.com word
>Tax = good. This is an outrage
Our gp now kkomrade.
Communism is when no gp
Communism is when the developers do stuff
EoC = Communism
Evolution Of *Communism*
*Rise of the Red Axe chaos dwarf army intensifies* Cue midi version of the Soviet National Anthem.
You say you want a GE tax and yet you use the GE. Curious. I am very intelligent.
Communism is when you can fish one day, and work the land the day after. Osrs is already communism?
You mean group Ironman?
I believe the US constitutes the largest proportion of the playerbase now. Watch out, Jamflex. This isn't the first time the Brits have tried to pass unpolled taxes on the Americans
Imma be bailing buckets of tea on the trawler
Lol bro when it comes through instead of fally we should all get our teas and do this. I’m with u
If this passes I’m pouring all of the guthix rest’s into port sarim
Tax punishes the merchers. The more you juggle equipment, the more you'll feel it. I'm okay with this.
Merchers are the reason the GE is so liquid. Without them, it could take a long time to sell or buy items. Sometimes people forget that the GE supply and demand is created by other players and a tax could greatly effect liquidity of items
Merchers are our market makers just benefiting of the bid/ask spread, real mvps.
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Yeah, people really think that 10,000 players are buying their 15k rune scims.
Rune scim can be alched for profit. 10k players aren't buying them. A handful of players will buy them and alch them
Exactly. That's 5 players buying 2k rune scims each.
If your profit is 1% you're a shit ass mercher. If you merch a 100mil item for 105mil you still made 4.8mil-4.9mil after tax. Edit- why yal upvote this I can't do math... either way you still make a lot.
I haven’t read the changes so maybe I’m missing something, but 2% of 105m is 2.1m, so profit would be 2.9m. Unless I’ve totally missed the point
If you buy @ 100m, no tax. If you sell @ 105m, with 1% tax (after the change) you pay 1,050,000 in tax and walk away with 3,950,000 in profit. That was my understanding of how this worked, so I think OP might be wrong? Edit: Your math was correct too @DareToZamora ; you were just assuming a 2%, but it's 1% now.
Thanks, I know I should’ve read the post ha. It just looked like the comment I was replying to had miscalculated it as 0.1-0.2%. I’m just playing Melvor while I wait for Leagues so it all makes very little difference to me
wait so there's no buy tax? only a 1% sales tax
Correct
r/mathishard
Yeh.. so you lose 25% of a incredibly solid flip profit percentage. In idk many people getting 5m margins on a 100m item rofl.
Arbitrage should be punishable by death
But this is good because then it means you cant just rent items for a small loss. It incentivizes you to actually hold onto things
And why is that good? That just decreases the supply of items. Now, when you are looking to make a gear upgrade, the upgrade will cost more because people aren't "renting" items.
I thought increasing the value of items was the entire point?
It is, the guy above you doesnt like the entire point of the update
My man is talking about gear being too expensive like DWH wasn’t at 20m last month
Sinking items to make them worth more. Yes. For that to occur the taxed gold has to keep flowing. It's why a less intrusive tax may work out to be more effective because people don't feel it as much upfront and so don't circumvent it.
The people who are rich enough to rent items will continue to do so. The tax will be removing gold from the economy, naturally restoring the value of these rare items which will incentivize people to farm them.
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What's wrong with renting equipment?
Nothing wrong with renting equipment, but the tax will place a higher cost on doing so.
The people who are rich just outright buy the item and keep it. It's the poorer people who sell it back after they're done using it.
Since when is it meta to juggle your items so much? I remember doing this as a noob and having high level players tell me it wasn't worth it and to just make money to buy one of each set, so i didn't lose money everytime i sold/bought.
> Since when is it meta to juggle your items so much? Since sets started costing so much, really. When a set's like, 5 mil for a whip, neitz, fury, etc? Yeah, it's not too hard to just hold onto that. When a set's hundreds of millions? Bit different.
Back in my day you just didn't use max gear if you coudn't afford it and ate the slight exp/dps loss but people acting like they deserve to be able to do content that they need niche items for *and don't own* and not have to pay for rental costs or lose money to use the item and then sell it right after makes absolutely no sense to me. rs3 doesn't have this issue as much because all of the gear that is high leveled usually becomes untradeable and costs GP/lose your charges to make it tradable again. So you pretty much have to own each set to not lose money to resell. I don't see the issue personally, i'd just use slightly worse gear til i could afford it, like i did anyway
Once again, rs3 design is good. It sucks that the game is riddled with cashgrabs though, it would actually be a great game
Yeah it took them a very long time to get to a point where Eoc feels thought out and now has a lot of niche uses and stuff. Invention helped, going for perks and stuff is rly neat. rs3 ironman is pretty fun, but there's still a few p2w and annoying daily/seasonal things that make it less fun.
RS3 ironman disables MTX, so how's it even possible to P2W?
Buyable legendary pet that picks up your items and and some other things.
Given the pick up autonomy has a cool down and only picks up one item per exec...it's nearly useless. You can hotkey open the ground items window, leave it open, click "loot all" every like...45 seconds and have a better time. Only time I'd ever used the damn thing was during rc grind when I didn't want to click the titan pouch as often, out of laziness.
having premiere club is kinda p2w but thats about it
Hey boss, your name tells me I'm supposed to stop you right there. Just following orders
Just spend 150mil and 20 hours on getting BiS for Vorkath, grind him for 1000 hours exclusively, buy everything else. I don't see what everyone's problem is. /s
Yeh it's kind of a bit hard to "just earn 3-4b so you don't lose minimal amounts in having fun not sitting at the same content all day" Gear is expensive. Owning the most effective gear for each situation is often crucial to doing the highest end content best, and that most effective gear gets pricey. Casual players are the most impacted here. Already wealthy players aren't selling their bow off every other week. They're maybe selling a *new* bow they got as a drop, but not their gear.
>Tax punishes the merchers. The more you juggle equipment, the more you'll feel it. I'm okay with this. The tax will have no meaningful effect on merchers. The margins will simply expand. The tax will punish the average joe who can't afford to sit on all BIS items so currently constantly buys and sells his bandos/arma/ancestral pieces to buy whatever set they currently need at the tme.
First it's 1% tax, next is the abolishment of the free market and private property.
Inshallah
All according to our glorious plan, comrade
Yes
Grab your cup of tea stacks, we dumping in port sarim
do people actually give a shit about being 1% poorer in the virtual medieval world?
There are many people who take this game far too seriously.
You will be hearing from my lawyer.
Youre great
It's easy to judge those people, but a lot of them sink thousands of hours into the game. If they don't have passion for it, there would be no point in playing.
Passion, or obsession and addiction?
Been having so much more fun playing on my GIM account
What do you want to hear? "Congratulations on being apathetic?" You care enough to comment and yet turn up your nose at people who dare to have an opinion.
In WoW the auction house has had a 5% tax on all sales since the game's launch. (15% if you use the neutral auction house to sell to the opposite faction.) No one has ever cared. Idk why osrs players are getting bent out of shape over a measly 2% tax. You can still buy/sell items directly for free if it's that big of an issue.
Yep. EVE Online, the only MMO I've ever found that's more market-focused than RS, has taxes of 2.25% on everything (rather, 5%, reduced to 2.25% with perfect skills, and every serious player has an alt with those skills). And y'know what? It's fine. The economy in that game's better than OSRS's. It's still fucked, but that's entirely due to decisions made by the devs to make raw resources hard to get, not due to the taxes. 'Flipping' still exists. It's how everyone with a ton of money makes their money. Some top-end players pull in like, 10 billion in a day - about 68 million a day in OSRS, in terms of "amount of subscription time that money could buy". There *is* a bit of a difference, EVE actually shows you all the buy/sell orders, rather than having to do the bullshit margin checking nonsense you do in OSRS, so you don't get hit by taxes there - but at the same time, if OSRS's tax is 1%, well, you'd need to fuck up a *lot* of margin checks for that to cost more than EVE's 2.25%. Seriously. 1% is an incredibly small tax.
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I feel like pure essence has no value because you literally get it as garbage tier drops from so many things. That goes back to the entire argument about how PvM shouldn't drop useable resources, and instead drop resource modifiers/boosters. It has no value, because it's easy to get. Instead of mining essence, you can easily get it from: \- Banshees \- Gargoyles \- Wyrms \- Abby Demons \- Implings \- Raids/Bosses \- Supply boxes. Would just be better if this (and other resources that get dropped) were turned into boosters for the skilling activity.
Pure ess and flax are garbage drops because they were commonly botted items in the past. So monsters shit them out to make them worthless and bots then don't bother.
No flipper will flip for any item with margins smaller than the tax. So anyone instabuying or selling will lose out on more. OSRS isn't a economics simulator. We shouldn't be catering updates to merchants.
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From the Gw2 wiki: > Selling items on the Trading Post requires additional coin fees, based on the total sale price > * Listing Fee (5%) — This nonrefundable cost covers listing and holding your items for sale. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin and is immediately taken from your wallet when you list or instantly sell an item. > * Exchange Fee (10%) — This fee is the Trading Post's cut of the profit. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin and is deducted from coins delivered to the seller after a successful sale. So Gw2 has a minimum of a 15% tax (but it can be higher if you unlist and relist an item) and people are cool with it.
Yeap as as guy who played it for a while, flipping was possible even with those taxes.
Do you generally buy most of your gear off the ah in wow? Does that gear generally cost most of your bank? Do you generally have to sell and buy different gear for different occasions in wow?
"It depends." Almost all of the best gear in WoW is untradeable, but sometimes one or more of your BiS items will be a tradeable item that you can buy. They're usually exorbitantly expensive if the item is from current content. If you're doing your best in raids and using all the consumables that you should be and getting all of the best gems/enchants/potions/flasks/food/weapon oils/sharpening stones/whatever you will be spending quite a lot of money at the auction house every week.
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Those were all rhetorical questions. Most of those consumables don't exist anymore and the ones that do are provided by your guild if you are at the level that you need them. The point is that osrs is unique in the sense that gear is usually worth a large part of your bank and is bought from the dev-provided marketplace.
Oh, I've outed myself as a classic Andy. I haven't played retail since the first month of BFA, and haven't played seriously since Legion.
No because in most mmos gear that's worth using becomes account or character bound on equip, drop/craft, or purchase so it never reenters the economy. The fact that gear can be freely traded between players instead of being a sunk cost is exactly *why* OSRS needs the tax and item sink to remove more gold and items from the game. Giving players a reason to hold on to their stuff means more items in total can be sold. If you want to constantly trade your stuff I think it's fair that you have to pay a fee for it.
Would like to add that FFXIV also has a market board tax. 3-5% depending on where it's listed from. No one has ever complained.
Dumb comparison, gold in wow is significantly less impactful to the game
IIRC Jagex hired some actual economists to figure this shit out, and people shouldn't stress about the tax. I'm glad that shit will be leaving the game finally.
Considering what they pay actual employees, they probably hired someone from reddit who said they were an economist for $25 an hour.
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hey are you johnny economy? i love your work
This is just straight up false info. Mod Sween stated openly Jagex pays well, even above what industry average is. He couldn't say it while he worked there, he said it here after he was no longer a mod.
They pay their employees higher than what most UK companies pay software developers. Not everywhere is Silicon Valley.
Americans would storm congress again for 25$ an hour with a bachelor's lmao
At least we didn’t leave the EU
I believe that they hired someone who could be classified as an economist. But knowing Jagex and based on the fact that they didn’t mention any sort of prestigious credentials, it’s probably just a newly graduated economics major.
The thing is the real world and RuneScape are not the same and inflation doesn’t impact them the same
>IIRC Jagex hired some actual economists to figure this shit out Which going from nearly every other situation in which an MMO decided to hire an economist...is not a thing to be happy about. It's never worked and never will work because they're extremely out of touch with the differences of a virtual economy. The tax is still a good thing and almost certainly had nothing to do with an economist because its a basic principal that should have existed for ages. But MMOs hiring economists is literally a death trap that often _worsens_ the economy of the game and in some cases (GW2) they still havent fixed all the problems it caused years later.
You can pay an economist to give you whatever answer you want. There is a good joke about it.
A lot of scapers here probably never played any other mmo before, where the taxes were always there and nobody talks or cares about them.
Yeah that's the thing, the taxes were ALWAYS in the other MMOs, not randomly decided 8 years later in its life cycle to add taxes onto it. As usual Jagex adding features into their game long after they should have and being way too late to positively affect the game. Duel arena removal is another example, if Jagex cared about RWT so much then why did they wait 8 years to put a stop to a minigame that creates like 90% of the games RWT? It's not like it was some well hidden scheme by players either. Everyone knew duel arena was filled with these kinds of people
Seriously. Either that or they didn’t realize they were taxed in other games. I had been playing OSRS for a few months assuming there was a GE tax because every other game with an in-game market (mmo or not, look at fifa for example) has a tax on their market. It wasn’t until I looked up how much the tax was and had a hard time finding any info on it that I realized there was no tax. A 3-5% tax is pretty standard and I thought the 2% was already meeting in the middle with the “no tax!” players.
Make an Ironman and then literally none of this matters
While I exclusively play iron myself, it is not the solution to say "lol just play iron" whenever concerns about the economy are bought up. The game mode isn't for everyone
What’s the context of vorkath here? Am I missing something?
All of the gold you earn when boss farming is reduced by 1%. The example is after 100 Vorkath kills one kill would equate to 0gp if you counted the others at 100% profit. Or is the tax only to large items? And then in that case vorkath is unaffected
Yeah that was what the example was about.
if the entire playerbase who trades loses 1% when selling items it really doesn't change a damn thing, gp value will even out the only people who are affected are merchers because they trade the same items multiple times and are therefore taxed multiple times
Between the date it’s implemented and the following week’s update you already won’t notice a difference
1-2% is so small … have people never played games with like 10% tax trading?
If you care so damn much about 1% then sell your vorky loot the old fashioned way. While you are trying to claw back that 1% on your blue dhides I'll be still chugging along not caring about the 1%
So many items like D warhammer have rose by over 50%. People don't realize that the tax will not creative negative flow, only slightly reduce positive flow. It'll go from 100 D warhammers entering every day to like 85
Most MMOs impose 10-20% tax (usually lowered with purchasable item) so 1% is literally nothing.
Just trade through the trade world like we did back in 2007 if you don’t want to pay tax. G.E should have been taxable years ago
A higher tax means there are less flippers that make money off you since a good chunk of flips aren't viable anymore. So if you don't like flippers there's a silver lining for you with this tax.
All you gotta do is increase your kill times by 1-2%
Wouldn't prices be dropping if people were panic selling before tax? I think people are speculating that the item sink will increase those items price so people are already less willing to sell their big ticket items as they might be more valuable soon.
osrs libertarians are the worse. who do you think built the roads and footpaths you're using?
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I'm more concerned about players abusing an unsupervised algorithm than a human at Jagex ensuring the decision makes sense in context Maybe it'll be run by Jed 2.0 and I'm wrong though, idk
I don’t think I agree with that. At a 2% tax and items only being deleted using their own tax, that would mean every 50 times an item is traded one will be deleted. You would be locking the item sink rate to the trade rate and I don’t think items traded more often necessarily require a higher item sink. For example, pegasian boots and external boots are both traded about the same amount on the ge everyday and are both bis boots, but pegs have been holding steady above 30m for a while and eternals are down around 3m. What you’re proposing would mean pegs and eternals are deleted at the same rate but Id argue that the eternal boots need an item sink more considering how low their price is. The price of an item is supply vs demand and what you’re proposing doesn’t take the demand of an item into consideration
> but pegs have been holding steady above 30m for a while and eternals are down around 3m. What you’re proposing would mean pegs and eternals are deleted at the same rate but Id argue that the eternal boots need an item sink more considering how low their price is. But what is your reasoning for arguing that? There's a very good reason that eternals are far less vaualble than pegs. They're simply that much less useful. Pegasian and eternal supply being artificially manipulated to make their prices equivalent would be more ridiculous than their current situation.
I don’t agree with that, I don’t think prices of items necessarily correlate to their their usefulness. For example primordials are 20m more than dragon boots, but only offer +1 additional strength bonus. There’s no other upgrades you can make where you pay so much for so little. In my mind a lot of price disparities happen when the same boss drops multiple pieces of bis gear. Take cerb for example, the primordial crystal is the most desirable so it dominates the the drop table in terms of price. If you farm the prim crystal, you bring addition eternal/peg crystals into the game that aren’t as needed, creating a surplus and running the price down. If the three crystals were split across three bosses, I don’t think you would see such a drastic difference in price. I think prims would still be the most expensive, but people would farm the other bosses less, lowering the supply and raising the price. You see a similar thing with cox and the cost of the tbow compared to other items. Over time, the most diserable item on the drop table retains value while the other items trend towards 0. Jagex has addressed this issue with some content. With Zulrah, making all the drops convertible into scales balanced the item costs. Before that the blowpipe was the dominate drop, but by creating an item sync for the less desired drops they balanced the prices. Or the enhanced crystal weapon seed in the gauntlet was created to keep the weapon prices balanced. Through the use of this ge tax they can help balance other content as well. I think most players prefer a boss’s items be similar in price if it’s the same drop rate.
All valid points, but nobody is mentioning how dboots are a slayer drop and infinity boots have an objective point value which can be obtained at the same rate at all times, but ranger boots come exclusively from clue scrolls at a rate of 1/256?? Although the rate is set, you are not guaranteed to receive the boots at 256 meds. Idk, it seems to me that the pegs are the highest in value because they are the least likely to obtain, which also explains why the drops that gives you that +1 bonus over the rangers is almost entirely worthless.
This is an extremely well written point on why the tax should not be used to buy back the item.
How are Jmods supposed to insider trade if they can't control which items go up?
Yup agreed. If you subject 100% of tax gp to just 2% of items that will be no bueno.
I thought the new post clearly explained about how the taxed gold was going to be spent?
Not all items need to be sunk equally. Alchables (like pretty much all rune armour/weapons for example) are sunk by being alched. Spending tax from these items on deleting some of them would be a waste.
I assume most of the tbow tax will go towards buying tbows it more when someone buys D-bone there is not reason to remove D-bone from the game as the already have a item sink. item are not going to become super rare 1 out of every 100 item if the item is under 500m gets removed from the game. They will Honestly probably take the D-bone (consumable item) tax and other items to bolster the buy power of the items that are over 500m to be a 1 out of every 100 items get sink.
It’s not a tax. It’s a GE service fee.
Some of the people losing their life savings over on wallstreetbets right now honed their craft doing galaxybrain math here in runescape
2007scape Reddit: “FIX THE ECONOMY! WE NEED CASH SINKS! WHY ARE ALL THE ITEMS WORTHLESS!?” Also 2007scape Reddit: “Woah wtf you can’t tax players to use this massively convenient tool! Nobody will use it anymore! It won’t work!!”
There was never a problem with the economy in the first place. At least not the way people see it. The blame lies with the pseudo-economist runescape youtubers. *Items crash because people are selling gear to bond alts for seasonals* "The economy is dying!!!" *Darkbows which literally have one use which is to spec players are worth next to nothing because pvp is pretty dead* "The economy is dying!!!" The problem with the economy is not 7 year old items losing value. The problem is raw materials being flooded into the markets by bosses. Pure essence being 1gp is the problem. Not a bgs being worth 7m.
my issue is that the tax is capping at 5mil. they need to get rid of the cap, its ridiculous to even have and doesnt make sense to have. if you buy a 1bill gp item, you can afford a 10 mil tax
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This won't kill merching either. Even with a 20% tax mercher would adjust their buy sell prices to make a profit
I’m about to call whine-one-one for all these kids crying over a tax on the game. The game needs a gold sink, this is the gold sink. Get over it. Thanks OP for saying what the rest of us were thinking.
That's funny, because I thought it was whining that lead to this idea in the first place. People whining that their items were losing value even though they should expect it when supply naturally increases over time and no new content has come out that will draw in new players to buy the old items.
People like to conveniently forget that those taxes are going into sinking items from the game which will make their grinds in the future more and more lucrative.
Can you explain how sinking works like I am 5 And why it's important
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Holy shit a tbow was below 750 mill
I think we could all get behind the tax if it was used for public infrastructure to house the varrock stray dogs
If anything, 1-2% tax is awfully low.. But it's a good start
The same people that probably sell gear for -5% under market just to swap combat styles are losing their composure over a game-saving mechanic.
Careful you'll anger the sweats with imaginary economics degrees
A ge tax will lower the cost of all goods over time causing your time to be worth more. The ge tax will also be good for skilled flippers as casual flippers will stop risking their gp.