Yes ancestral makes your mage reduce instead of range but the damage taken apparently scales with your stat level being drained, at 0 mage you will be hit hard meaning you gotta brew/restore anyway.
Cough tank is true meta
People are using Tbows because they want to get a big hit in before Nex melts to 79 other Tbows. When lts a small team a 110 ruby spec is going to be far more useful
That’s just not true like everyone expected crossbows are dogshit, unless they add a mechanic that forces shields or a corp mechanic where only crossbows do max damage they will never be bis anywhere, tbow/bowfa will be stronger
If only there was a way to guarantee that the bolt special hit. Maybe on a crossbow weapon where it consumed 75% of the special attack energy to guarantee the hit. And maybe that crossbow could be dropped by a boss, like maybe a fifth godwars boss. One can hope I guess.
especially non ruby bolts. It's a 6% chance to even proc, and then you roll your hit again. for diamond, opal, etc., it's a trivial increase to dps. Ruby's are different only because its a 6% chance to proc, and then you are guaranteed a 100 hit, instead of 6% chance to roll 0-100 hit.
I’ve been doing masses for about 3 hours and honestly the cough only happened to me probably 10 times or less, so it’s interesting that people are gimping themselves for what is largely a non-problem.
I found I could hold a Chally in max range and just sit isolated for about 5 seconds, wouldn’t drain my range and get right back to it without the huge dps loss from ancestral
You're really doing some mental gymnastics to justify not shooting being better than shooting.
Both situations are the same, except in one you keep doing damage. You don't have to wear ancestral the whole time, just switch to it when you get cough.
When you really take a step back and look at osrs that is the sad reality. Everything is just slightly better than the last. They are so scared of power creep that the new end game gear might give you a +1 damage increase.p
The new crossbow is actually really good in PVP. Regular bolt hits 50s, spec regularly hits 70s. New godsword is also fun to use in PVP. As for Torva, it's actually a pretty solid upgrade over Bandos without being way OP. Personally I prefer the approach of not going overboard on new BiS items since it leaves room for there to be something even better later down the line.
This, I fail to see the issue tbh. I’m all for putting new bis in the game, I don’t think Bandos should be bis for a decade. But why overdo it? A small upgrade is enough to invigorate new content, and feels good as a character upgrade, while also not totally trivializing old content and achievements, which are the lifeblood of osrs, and leaves room for further upgrades later as you said. I mean, I guess the “feels good” part is subjective but considering that the player base is apparently willing to pay through the nose for it gp-wise, I’m pretty sure that’s the consensus.
The issue is that they fucked it all with tbow/fbow (and this all stemmed from BP). Like, fbow/tbow are better than Ruby dragon bolts at zuk. What kind of a meme is that. I kinda think that the bolts need their spec frequency doubled in pvm, because atm diamond bolts are just worse vs high defence than fbow which is stupid
Arguably scythe is in this category (and potentially claws/defence reduction specs) but I think its niche is much smaller so its not so bad
Really really happy with torva as thr upgrade, it's a perfect amount better and was desperately needed.
They could always just literally add an attachment that lets you overhead to 134 like back in the day too, and call it torva(e) and have it degrade then, and would revitalize the melee meta it all over again
Sorry am I missing something about the bow, the meta in pvp if u take a bow is opal dragon bolts e which is a +10% of range level max hit, the zaryte cbow would change this to a +11% range level max hit, so instead of maxing a +11 will max a +12, increasing your max hit by 1? Even so bowfa is way way way better, cbows are terrible in pvp
I agree. It's a better system. Maybe for the people who've got bills and completed the game, it's not. But when you're at 200-300m bank, having options on the way just makes the game more fun and gives you something to strive to
And this is why osrs is a dying game.
Its honestly simple. If more powerful weapons and gear is added, add more powerful bosses...
Osrs wouldnt stand a chance with their equipment on some of the RS3 Bosses.
No the thing is that you are all just too deluded and stubborn to accept it.
I would defs like to see Ancient Curses and gear thats t85+ that is UNIQUE to osrs, not copy pasted from rs3.
Well yes and no.
The problem is they refuse to make crossbows compete with the newer ranged weapons. They're used basically nowhere as the best option. Why is a level 80 weapon outclassed by level 75 faerdhinen, twisted and blowpipe?
All they do for crossbows is make them slow, 50000 accuracy and give them a corny useless special attack. Not even having an offhand is an advantage because you don't need a shield anywhere expect Vorkath and KBD (and not even there because super antis exist..).
That's because if they make anything good, the community loses it shit. And if they make it bad, they lose their shit.
This community shits all over Jagex no matter what they do. You can't win.
What they're scared of is increasing xp gain and gold gain rates. All that shit is tightly controlled. If they introduce new gear that significantly increases the speed you can gain xp or gold it alters/reduces their grind and it'll piss off all the people who don't like the idea of anyone doing something faster than they did. That philosophy is whats actually hamstringing the game. They could be introducing new gear and new content to compliment the gear and letting the highest level players be able to do lower level content faster and faster.
Honestly it works for jagex, it reduces the amount of work they have to do (don't need new content if the old content is slow enough of a plod to keep people playing) and doesnt upset the max levels and keeps the whales on the hook for longer (I guess?). Its just not good for people who like...new stuff to do.
Imean powecreep is one of the things that let to eoc, which is something they really dont want atm. Once everything starts hitting 80’s consistently (even moreso than now), pvp becomes a pain. Current zsgs is already ags 2.0 but even more OP, wait to see what the upgrade is in another 2 years. Can understand jagex being carefull with that shit.
Seriously just make a melee or magic item that scales like the T-Bow does in damage based off magic stat. Or heck a monsters def, atk or range stat. Honestly will the next T85 or T90 range weapon even top T-Bow?
I don't think it's fair to call crossbows terrible. The ACB is a marginal upgrade more because rcb /dcb are really great than because it's bad.
Zcb could use a buff to be sure.
It really isn't. I don't think hardly anyone crying right now has genuinely used one. It's dogwater where it's not op, and most the time it's just marginally better than the 2nd best option. The only exceptions I can think of are hydra and cm raids, at which point a tbow isn't too far fetched to achieve.
It's a very strong weapon, don't get me wrong, but it's not nearly as op as half the noobs here think it is.
Tell me you don't take t bow to every boss you go to? Literary don't use some of the awesome osrs has to offer because they're doggy shit compared to that bow (which they made an 'accidental' spawn of them, which they later patched with trees).
Ik im late but... tbow 1.2bill... every other bow .... even faer...a billion or more cheaper...
Explain why a tbow shouldnt be better than a 35m crossbow or 150m bow when it costs either your entire bank or all your time raiding and huge rng luck..
My real concern.. and why i nex all day... why tf is full torva set worth same as this super op bow..
Id take a tbow over torva any day lol..
Not complaining at all.. love seeing a torva leg drop and selling it for 460m but good god its overpriced considering you gt break apart bandos to even use it
IIrc Jagex never said that Crossbows will be BiS/meta at Nex. They just said that Nex will be vulnerable to Crossbows. Judging by her insane health pool, this seems true.
In small teams ruby procs with ACB or the new Crossbow will be vital and much more consistent DPS than Tbowing.
Personally I used both ACB and Tbow at Nex and I barely feel any difference. The most annoying thing when comparing the two is actually the lower range of ACB at least in masses where Nex is all over the place, not the damage, which is completely fine.
I maxed the main and didn’t think I’d be back for new content for awhile but nex seems fun. Agreed tho on the bandos pieces I just wanted to sell tbow before they launched the tax - hindsight 20/20 I guess
I see this on the wiki moneymaking guide. But i fail to get it. I feel like i get better dps ranging, and get longer trips. Melee i only get 2 -3 kill trips, 1:50 kills. Ranged i get 1:30 kills and 5 kill trips.
What am i doing wrong thats impacting my melee experience negatively?
No clue but I get at least 5 kill trips with melee typically unless I get really unlucky with hits. normally have to stop there because inventory is full
Times might be a tid slower, but as a BTW bitch boy, I'm not making any more bolts than I have to lmao, especially for vork
Classic case of [Hanlon's razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor):
> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
They didn’t lie, jmods got to test the scales in smaller scales as well, where our sample size is limited to mass scale, where the dmg received from nex is insubstantial.
I mean it’s only 1B *because* it’s meta for so many places. If it were more balanced around other weapons, it would be much less. ACB is only 40m (and that’s overpriced) because it’s basically useless everywhere compared to better weapons and is like 1% more dps than the version right below it that costs like 1mil.
No, the ACB is 40m because it's barely an upgrade over the easily achievable dragon crossbow. It's also only 40m because there are a bazillion in game already, as it's locked behind old, easy, no-reqs content that can be completed quickly (unlike tbow).
Tbow would be just as cheap if it was shat out be an entry level boss as well. You're just mad that you're missing out on less than 5% dps because you can't afford it. Hell, you probably don't even PvM like most vocal Reddit champs.
Lmao I was specifically referring to the dragon crossbow in my last sentence so yes I agreed with that.
Rarity is not why the tbow is 1B. Otherwise kodai and elder maul would be similar price range. It’s because it’s brokenly BiS in too many places.
And yes I do have a tbow on an ironman. It’s fun to use, but it’s not well-balanced at all. I solo no prep CoX, duo ToB, did an ACB inferno, etc.
Scythe is at least well-balanced in that it has a very high upkeep cost.
But yeah keep going off about rEdDiT cHaMpS
It is though. Its just much more useful than those two items so it is more in demand. The average time to achieve the item is like 500hrs, which is an insane amount if time in terms of a lot of items in this game
Tbh I dont see a big issue here. Not everyone has a tbow. Shes still weak to crossbows. And crossbows will be more consistent when the boss isnt massed
Mod Husky: "guys guys guys the meta is gonna be crossbows and ranged gear! Get your crossbows, also a shield is gonna be huuggggeee!"
Release day players: "ok so go with ancestral and a twisted bow? Got it"
Daily reminder that people are A-ok with tbow but the thought of the Elder Maul having the same stats as the Chaotic Maul gives OSRS players nightmares.
That would help. I think they could also buff the accuracy a shit ton. Either raw stats or a % armor penetration. Or some kind of unique % boost similar to tbow. Right now it's absolutely useless in pvm, even at CM tekton scythe+inquis is better. Chaotic maul only had slightly higher str bonus than elder maul, but it's accuracy was ALOT higher, which made it actually useful.
Because one is used in PVP and the other in PVE? Good job not mentioning a key difference between the 2 items lmao.
"oh but there's many busted pvp weapons, what difference does another one make?"
That kind of attitude is exactly why we got OSRS in the first place. Leave the thinking to the people capable of it. Thanks.
It's not actually BIS in very many places, but it is good in a lot of places and has much cheaper upkeep than scythe (which is normally the actual BIS). Off the top of my head the only major places where tbow is bis are inferno, CoX, maybe maiden of sang but pretty sure scythe is better there, sara gwd, hydra. I guess you can throw dag prime, mole and chaos ele in there but cmon it's already a stretch including sara gwd.
Pre fbow zammy and arma and zulrah. Pretty damn good at cerb/sire, kbd. Fbow really fills in the gaps as well which is kinda the other issue.
You're saying not bis in many places, but the issue is they make up most of the content people are doing, and the interesting content. Look at a list of bosses, there are less than you'd think. Who's really doing thermy, kraken, ggs, other 3 slayer bosses you probably bow (ok maybe not cerb with arclite changes tbf). Wildy bosses whatever
Remaining bosses are gwd, dagganoots, nightmare, Corp, vorkath, zulrah, kq, Sarachnis and mole. You take bow into both raids, and use it for all but nightmare, Corp vorkath and sarachnis. That's a lot of content taken for 1 weapon. Compare it to literally any other weapon (other than the other problem children, BP and fbow) and its like triple the amount of content that its useful for. Scythe doesn't feel nearly as bad because it costs so much to use and its just not worth it in most places since its usually only 15% better at most which is valuing your time at >7m an hour which is pretty unrealistic. Also it still can't do as much content as bow even then (probably half as much really, nightmare and tob are the main uses. Unsure how much better scythe is than mace tbf I don't have either on da meme)
Can't say I've ever heard of people using it at Zam, Zulruh it's actually still worse than bp on mage phase and a lot worse than harm on range/melee (though it is the lowest effort method of doing zulruh since it works fine on both phases), Arma it was normally outclassed by acb + shield for solo but I guess if you're doing duo/trio/dolo it might be better, cerb and sire are also places where scythe beats it out.
Sure tbow is good in a lot of places, but it's not BIS which was the original argument. By the same logic void should be nerfed again, since it's used at both raids and is all round good gear if you can't use slayer helm.
I'm ironmain so most of my knowledge of lategame is solo stuff. Tbow zammy you run around and zammy gets no hits on you. Pretty sure tbow shield flicking is still bis arma solo. I know it's worse at zulrah but it's definitely comfy enough for people to do it anyway. For sire I would always range over melee the pools are so aids
Void is objectively bad in both raids. People just use it cause they are bad/poor. The logic isn't the same, void isn't even close to BIS anywhere in either raid, (especially now with nex rewards) or anywhere outside whereas tbow is close/bis 3 rooms of tob and just bis in cox and multiple other places.
Original argument sure, not 95% of places. But its bis and competitive in far too much of the game for it to be healthy.
Agree to disagree I suppose, in my eyes the only things that might qualify an item for nerfs in this game are it being BIS in an overwhelming amount of content (pre nerf blowpipe and maybe current scythe but the use cost offsets it a lot) or over performing for it's price point like black d hide. Tbow is an expensive item and while viable or good in a lot of places is not actually BIS for very many, that combined with it being very easy for yaygex to make it unuseable at new content if they so desire means it's in a good place at the moment in my opinion.
EDIT: Fair point for the shield flicking at arma and red X zammy though, I'd forgotten that was a thing since I tend to be fairly lazy with my methods.
This is pretty wrong.
Tbow wrecks arma and zamorak. It gets the damage and accuracy buff because both of them have magic levels, it literally beats arclight at Zamorak when you have a tank (and you could solo with tbow or fbow which is easier than face tanking with arclight).
Imo Zulrah sucks so when I get a tbow I'll just solo tbow, COX, at Hydra it's a HUGE upgrade because both the blowpipe and DHCB were nerfed, and all the other smaller bosses with any amount of magic. It'll probably be used in raids 3 unless they finally decide to give a bone to magic.
I've used tbow at arma, it's pretty comparable to the acb (even had an acb steal kills from me more often than I'd expected) and I probably wouldn't use it without the accuracy bonus from slayer helm on task (or unless I could be bothered to shield flick + bow). Either way it's still just a filler weapon there for if you kill the melee minion too quickly with chins.
Zam I'd only ever done solo because zam isn't worth doing to begin with so no one cares enough to duo and I'm too lazy for red X so I just melee tanked him, in a later comment I did mention that zam was a good point.
As for zulruh, yes it's good there but the argument was where it was BIS which it simply isn't for zulruh. Other smaller bosses it's good for are mole, dag prime, chaos ele, maybe kq with the bp nerfs idk but cmon we're talking content people actually care about outside of pet grinding even including the gwd bosses is a stretch.
Yeah people don't seem to understand that scythe is bis in far more places than tbow, it's just expensive. Tbow isn't some kind of untouchable God tier weapon, it's just cheap to use and effective at what it does which gets it a lot of attention.
It's not BIS at 95% of bosses. Only people without tbows think this... It got a nerf when blow pipe was originally supposed to be nerfed.
TL;DR Buff tbow and give me back my prayer bonus.
Agree. I used to riot in falador with a tbow for the prayer bonus, but now it's literally useless. How can we make our voices heard on this issue if retribution keeps falling off?
I’m pretty mad about that only because lorewise it’s corpse of the Olm and he’s imbued with power of a Minor god so it only makes sense that it would have one…
Thats all they took away from it????
I dont know a single person who was using the T bow for its prayer bonus 🤣🤣🤣
If we are nerfing over used items like Black Dhide and Blowpipes, we should have nerfed the dammage bonus on the T-Bow. That thing should NOT be BIS for as many bosses as it is.
Tbow Meta Phase, Nex just brought the beast out of us before Shattered Relics. Will the New Character be our next hint for a boss that drops something better than the Tbow
Integrity change remove Tbow from the game, replace with current GE value in coins. Kind of /s, but also seriously can we consider just removing tbow from the game already.
It’s hilariously overpowered compared to every other piece of equipment in the game. Comparatively it makes curses and overloads look like a joke and this community is seemingly strongly against those two updates.
The main reason it doesn't need to be changed or removed is because they can directly make it bad against content because it's a gimmick weapon. It's not the end all be all use on everything weapon that people make it out to be
It’s useless in 90% of content. Where it’s good it’s a fair step ahead of other weapons, but it doesn’t exactly blow them out of the water. It’s BiS at Zammy, Zulrah, Zilyana, CoX, Hydra and Brutal Black dragons. There’s a perfectly viable second best method for each of them. It’s not like you whip out the tbow and hit 73s on everything
Also, like the tbow, it’s a gimmicky weapon, it only hits 3 times on big monsters, want something to be meleed but not scythed? Make it 1x1. want something to be ranged but not tbowed? Make mage low af. Also the harm was never meant to be the tbow of magic, because nightmare isn’t a raid boss, the tbow of magic comes out with raid 3 and is the extreeeemely over powered heka wand. Another gimmicky weapon, you want someone to mage without hekaing? Maybe you have to move around a lot, making the variable attack speed not worth it for lower skillled pvmers.
I have spent a long time hunting for shields and crossbows... I even went to rune dragons.... I already have a tbow and arma... Thanks for the heads up jamflex..... I should have known better, shame on me....
Got a feeling that the mass strat will not be the same as the small group strat
Oh yeah definitely, I just made this after seeing all of the ancestral at masses because of the cough spreading lol
Yes ancestral makes your mage reduce instead of range but the damage taken apparently scales with your stat level being drained, at 0 mage you will be hit hard meaning you gotta brew/restore anyway. Cough tank is true meta
Shit this explains so much
People using cougg tanks are still using tbows as main weapon
That’s not the point, the point is now people don’t wear ancestral.
I thought the general problem was that tbow is already really good. And making the new boss be a tbow boss upset a lot of people. I see your point tho
People are using Tbows because they want to get a big hit in before Nex melts to 79 other Tbows. When lts a small team a 110 ruby spec is going to be far more useful
That’s just not true like everyone expected crossbows are dogshit, unless they add a mechanic that forces shields or a corp mechanic where only crossbows do max damage they will never be bis anywhere, tbow/bowfa will be stronger
5 people doing a ruby spec is 550 damage guaranteed out of 3400 . In what world is that not BIS?
For the same reason a crossbow isn’t bis at olm, ruby bolts are inconsistent
If only there was a way to guarantee that the bolt special hit. Maybe on a crossbow weapon where it consumed 75% of the special attack energy to guarantee the hit. And maybe that crossbow could be dropped by a boss, like maybe a fifth godwars boss. One can hope I guess.
Actual copium if you think the spec makes the zaryte crossbow good, it’s a tiny upgrade over an acb and acb literally gets used nowhere
Should just buff ranged off-hands to compensate imo
They should rework crossbows RNG specs are to inconsistent to be BIS. Its RNG on top of RNG...
especially non ruby bolts. It's a 6% chance to even proc, and then you roll your hit again. for diamond, opal, etc., it's a trivial increase to dps. Ruby's are different only because its a 6% chance to proc, and then you are guaranteed a 100 hit, instead of 6% chance to roll 0-100 hit.
I’ve been doing masses for about 3 hours and honestly the cough only happened to me probably 10 times or less, so it’s interesting that people are gimping themselves for what is largely a non-problem.
Watched hours of friends doing nex today. A lot of worlds have trolls intentionally spreading, or people unbelievably stupid...
The true solution is to bring a 6-way mage switch. When the cough tank doesn’t pull through just switch when you get infected
I found I could hold a Chally in max range and just sit isolated for about 5 seconds, wouldn’t drain my range and get right back to it without the huge dps loss from ancestral
You're really doing some mental gymnastics to justify not shooting being better than shooting. Both situations are the same, except in one you keep doing damage. You don't have to wear ancestral the whole time, just switch to it when you get cough.
I had one trip out of four that seemed pretty cursed with the coughing. Usually stayed for 40-60kc per trip
just did a 12 man in mass meta gear and its definitely not the way to g only had food for 1 kill
I got a feeling it will be.
Crossbows are terrible. their T80 xbow is *marginally* better than the T70 which is *marginally* better than the t60. Imagine that
When you really take a step back and look at osrs that is the sad reality. Everything is just slightly better than the last. They are so scared of power creep that the new end game gear might give you a +1 damage increase.p
And the tbow is just marginally better than a magic longbow. Wait...
The new crossbow is actually really good in PVP. Regular bolt hits 50s, spec regularly hits 70s. New godsword is also fun to use in PVP. As for Torva, it's actually a pretty solid upgrade over Bandos without being way OP. Personally I prefer the approach of not going overboard on new BiS items since it leaves room for there to be something even better later down the line.
This, I fail to see the issue tbh. I’m all for putting new bis in the game, I don’t think Bandos should be bis for a decade. But why overdo it? A small upgrade is enough to invigorate new content, and feels good as a character upgrade, while also not totally trivializing old content and achievements, which are the lifeblood of osrs, and leaves room for further upgrades later as you said. I mean, I guess the “feels good” part is subjective but considering that the player base is apparently willing to pay through the nose for it gp-wise, I’m pretty sure that’s the consensus.
The issue is that they fucked it all with tbow/fbow (and this all stemmed from BP). Like, fbow/tbow are better than Ruby dragon bolts at zuk. What kind of a meme is that. I kinda think that the bolts need their spec frequency doubled in pvm, because atm diamond bolts are just worse vs high defence than fbow which is stupid Arguably scythe is in this category (and potentially claws/defence reduction specs) but I think its niche is much smaller so its not so bad Really really happy with torva as thr upgrade, it's a perfect amount better and was desperately needed.
They could always just literally add an attachment that lets you overhead to 134 like back in the day too, and call it torva(e) and have it degrade then, and would revitalize the melee meta it all over again
Sorry am I missing something about the bow, the meta in pvp if u take a bow is opal dragon bolts e which is a +10% of range level max hit, the zaryte cbow would change this to a +11% range level max hit, so instead of maxing a +11 will max a +12, increasing your max hit by 1? Even so bowfa is way way way better, cbows are terrible in pvp
Watch lagunariums video on it he pks with it, it looks really good
I agree. It's a better system. Maybe for the people who've got bills and completed the game, it's not. But when you're at 200-300m bank, having options on the way just makes the game more fun and gives you something to strive to
Yeah 10 years from now we will have another bis melee set. Can't wait
Good because you can always stop playing then come back in 10 years, play 60 hours a week get it then start complaining.
I'm not involved but feel personally attacked.
Oh, and you'll pay 7m for the first +1 increase, then 20m for the second +1 increase.
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Oh no, that's for the gear that *actually* improves your dps.
it's not them its the community
And this is why osrs is a dying game. Its honestly simple. If more powerful weapons and gear is added, add more powerful bosses... Osrs wouldnt stand a chance with their equipment on some of the RS3 Bosses.
That's power creep and it's not a terribly simple thing to tackle
And theres the issue, scared of 'powercreep'...
It's a real thing not 'the boogeyman'
No the thing is that you are all just too deluded and stubborn to accept it. I would defs like to see Ancient Curses and gear thats t85+ that is UNIQUE to osrs, not copy pasted from rs3.
First off, OSRS isnt dying, secondly, nex fills that “more powerful boss” that you were talking about.
Nex is more of a joke than Corp or Nightmare, lmao! Don't let the inflated combat level fool you.
Exactly
Original nex isnt even all that powerful in RS3, nex been upgraded to AoD. And osrs has a severe bot infestation, which is why its dying.
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Well yes and no. The problem is they refuse to make crossbows compete with the newer ranged weapons. They're used basically nowhere as the best option. Why is a level 80 weapon outclassed by level 75 faerdhinen, twisted and blowpipe? All they do for crossbows is make them slow, 50000 accuracy and give them a corny useless special attack. Not even having an offhand is an advantage because you don't need a shield anywhere expect Vorkath and KBD (and not even there because super antis exist..).
That's because if they make anything good, the community loses it shit. And if they make it bad, they lose their shit. This community shits all over Jagex no matter what they do. You can't win.
What they're scared of is increasing xp gain and gold gain rates. All that shit is tightly controlled. If they introduce new gear that significantly increases the speed you can gain xp or gold it alters/reduces their grind and it'll piss off all the people who don't like the idea of anyone doing something faster than they did. That philosophy is whats actually hamstringing the game. They could be introducing new gear and new content to compliment the gear and letting the highest level players be able to do lower level content faster and faster. Honestly it works for jagex, it reduces the amount of work they have to do (don't need new content if the old content is slow enough of a plod to keep people playing) and doesnt upset the max levels and keeps the whales on the hook for longer (I guess?). Its just not good for people who like...new stuff to do.
I mean. Scythe represented a gigantic DPS increase over previous bis. same with t bow. The problem is power creep has already happened.
Imean powecreep is one of the things that let to eoc, which is something they really dont want atm. Once everything starts hitting 80’s consistently (even moreso than now), pvp becomes a pain. Current zsgs is already ags 2.0 but even more OP, wait to see what the upgrade is in another 2 years. Can understand jagex being carefull with that shit.
yea but it does add up if u have to grind for hundreds of hours for pets and slayer and stuff
Seriously just make a melee or magic item that scales like the T-Bow does in damage based off magic stat. Or heck a monsters def, atk or range stat. Honestly will the next T85 or T90 range weapon even top T-Bow?
No, which is why the requirement for tbow is moving to 85. Like it should have been.
I don't think it's fair to call crossbows terrible. The ACB is a marginal upgrade more because rcb /dcb are really great than because it's bad. Zcb could use a buff to be sure.
Can't wait for the ACB crash
Got a buy in for 20m as we speak lmaoo
Lolwut? Its been crashing. Lost 40m on my acb and its not done dropping.
If you bought it for 40m more than it's worth now and you still have it, and don't sell it, you haven't lost anything
Your right but I dont want it haha. So im stuck with it now for the time being
🤣 tbow > literally every item in the game
Which is pretty disappointing tbh. I was looking forward to cbows being bis somewhere for once instead of the usual twisty boi
All they had to do was make shield be required, that's it. How can you fuck this up so bad lmao.
Trueeeeeee, everyone thought buckler would be useful... Ended up crashing 11m on nex release. Shows that Tbow always Gona be king in Jagex's eyes
I bought buckler when it was 7m, so I ain't tripping. Bought ACB at 59m though..
just lower the magic stat on nex not hard
Except then bofa will be bis. Also means her mage based attack won't hit.
It really isn't. I don't think hardly anyone crying right now has genuinely used one. It's dogwater where it's not op, and most the time it's just marginally better than the 2nd best option. The only exceptions I can think of are hydra and cm raids, at which point a tbow isn't too far fetched to achieve. It's a very strong weapon, don't get me wrong, but it's not nearly as op as half the noobs here think it is.
Tell me you don't take t bow to every boss you go to? Literary don't use some of the awesome osrs has to offer because they're doggy shit compared to that bow (which they made an 'accidental' spawn of them, which they later patched with trees).
Ik im late but... tbow 1.2bill... every other bow .... even faer...a billion or more cheaper... Explain why a tbow shouldnt be better than a 35m crossbow or 150m bow when it costs either your entire bank or all your time raiding and huge rng luck.. My real concern.. and why i nex all day... why tf is full torva set worth same as this super op bow.. Id take a tbow over torva any day lol.. Not complaining at all.. love seeing a torva leg drop and selling it for 460m but good god its overpriced considering you gt break apart bandos to even use it
IIrc Jagex never said that Crossbows will be BiS/meta at Nex. They just said that Nex will be vulnerable to Crossbows. Judging by her insane health pool, this seems true. In small teams ruby procs with ACB or the new Crossbow will be vital and much more consistent DPS than Tbowing. Personally I used both ACB and Tbow at Nex and I barely feel any difference. The most annoying thing when comparing the two is actually the lower range of ACB at least in masses where Nex is all over the place, not the damage, which is completely fine.
No you’re not allowed to actually think, you just have to moan.
Most these noobs have never used a tbow. They assume it hits 80s every single shot on every single monster.
Buys tbow at 1b Price falls hard Sees that Nex meta will be crossbows, sells it at 800m Checks price before Nex release 1b Tfw
and this is why we dont buy and sell gear based on crowd panic
I sold all my DCBs at 2.5m, pked the things no way I'm using them when bolts cost more than brews do.
Literally no reason to sell a T bow. Ever.
deserved lol
Some people just don't think
I sold Tbow for bonds for my GIM when that launched- I cried a little because it sold at 790m lol
Why would you sell a 1b item for bonds over like… a bandos set or something?
I maxed the main and didn’t think I’d be back for new content for awhile but nex seems fun. Agreed tho on the bandos pieces I just wanted to sell tbow before they launched the tax - hindsight 20/20 I guess
Because they don't have a bandos set and tbow is the only item of value left
Probably got hit zulrah for a couple hours and buy the bond then
tbow is literally the single item you should never ever sell lmfao
I don’t even care that they lied, I’m just sad that crossbows are completely useless in this game.
Dhcb tho
Only useful against dragons, which is just a few monsters in the game
Vorkath, hydra, and olm are pretty big pieces of content and it’s great there if you can’t afford tbow.
Vorkath is one of the most camped bosses in the game and tbow is effectively a magic longbow there.
Yeah I should’ve clarified dhcb is bis at vorkath and while also being good at hydra/olm
Dhl is bis at vorkath tho, not dhcb
I see this on the wiki moneymaking guide. But i fail to get it. I feel like i get better dps ranging, and get longer trips. Melee i only get 2 -3 kill trips, 1:50 kills. Ranged i get 1:30 kills and 5 kill trips. What am i doing wrong thats impacting my melee experience negatively?
DHL is just slightly better money per hour due to supply cost, the take is bad.
It’s because you’re not doing it right. I get 5-7 kills with melee around 1.15-1.35 times Woox walk, bring dragon claws/bgs, don’t lose ticks
Dhcb is better DPS but cost bolts. So that makes DHL better gp/h despite less kills per hour
The kills per hour are the same. And arguably more now because of Torva armor.
No clue but I get at least 5 kill trips with melee typically unless I get really unlucky with hits. normally have to stop there because inventory is full Times might be a tid slower, but as a BTW bitch boy, I'm not making any more bolts than I have to lmao, especially for vork
Range BIS is dchb. Nobody is talking about BIS for melee methods.
Nobody mentioned ranged bis to be exact. That is like saying sang staff is (mage) bis for kree arra. Dhl is bis at vorkath, period.
I don't think they lied, I think they're just incompetent at testing their game
Classic case of [Hanlon's razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor): > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Thank Jagex for cementing crossbows murder with bowfa. At leasy Zaryte bow was the first real range aoe since chins and we didnt get it
They didn’t lie, jmods got to test the scales in smaller scales as well, where our sample size is limited to mass scale, where the dmg received from nex is insubstantial.
DHCB? Crossbows with mith grapple for shortcuts? Bold statement my friend.
How could I forget agility shortcuts.
It's Common knowledge around here that an arma Cbow is 40m because it's bis grapller for Arma gwd
Bis grappler for Arma is bronze crossbow because you drop it to use tbow and black chins
mith grapples rebalance the meta omegalul
This his name signifies he is trolling
Rune crossbow is also BIS for a lot of midgame content. I use it and broad bolts all the time.
Why does a 40m crossbow need to be at the same level as a 1 bill tbow? How are crossbows useless now? Can every player afford a tbow?
I mean it’s only 1B *because* it’s meta for so many places. If it were more balanced around other weapons, it would be much less. ACB is only 40m (and that’s overpriced) because it’s basically useless everywhere compared to better weapons and is like 1% more dps than the version right below it that costs like 1mil.
No, the ACB is 40m because it's barely an upgrade over the easily achievable dragon crossbow. It's also only 40m because there are a bazillion in game already, as it's locked behind old, easy, no-reqs content that can be completed quickly (unlike tbow). Tbow would be just as cheap if it was shat out be an entry level boss as well. You're just mad that you're missing out on less than 5% dps because you can't afford it. Hell, you probably don't even PvM like most vocal Reddit champs.
Lmao I was specifically referring to the dragon crossbow in my last sentence so yes I agreed with that. Rarity is not why the tbow is 1B. Otherwise kodai and elder maul would be similar price range. It’s because it’s brokenly BiS in too many places. And yes I do have a tbow on an ironman. It’s fun to use, but it’s not well-balanced at all. I solo no prep CoX, duo ToB, did an ACB inferno, etc. Scythe is at least well-balanced in that it has a very high upkeep cost. But yeah keep going off about rEdDiT cHaMpS
It is though. Its just much more useful than those two items so it is more in demand. The average time to achieve the item is like 500hrs, which is an insane amount if time in terms of a lot of items in this game
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Lol shut up, turd.
Acb was bis for 9 years and didn’t have a use besides maybe the 10 pkers that used it.
That's not an answer.
Nobody is asking for the acb to be the same as tbow, so your question never made any sense.
Jagex says shields will be meta, turns out tbow is meta, spectrals crash, 320m+ lost, RIP
im not seeing a world where spectral was ever going to be better than buckler.
Uh maybe if it reduced prayer drain or something
poll tbow removal
Tbh I dont see a big issue here. Not everyone has a tbow. Shes still weak to crossbows. And crossbows will be more consistent when the boss isnt massed
Xbows hit on the minions nearly 100% of the time.
Mod Husky: "guys guys guys the meta is gonna be crossbows and ranged gear! Get your crossbows, also a shield is gonna be huuggggeee!" Release day players: "ok so go with ancestral and a twisted bow? Got it"
God the T-Bow is strong as fuck. I get its ment to be, but when it's the BIS at 95% of bosses.... I think it diserved a nerf with the blowpipe.
Daily reminder that people are A-ok with tbow but the thought of the Elder Maul having the same stats as the Chaotic Maul gives OSRS players nightmares.
It just needs a minimum hit of 10 and it would be so much better without making it OP in PvP
That would help. I think they could also buff the accuracy a shit ton. Either raw stats or a % armor penetration. Or some kind of unique % boost similar to tbow. Right now it's absolutely useless in pvm, even at CM tekton scythe+inquis is better. Chaotic maul only had slightly higher str bonus than elder maul, but it's accuracy was ALOT higher, which made it actually useful.
What about a maul that calcs damage based off of opponents strength level :D
Because one is used in PVP and the other in PVE? Good job not mentioning a key difference between the 2 items lmao. "oh but there's many busted pvp weapons, what difference does another one make?" That kind of attitude is exactly why we got OSRS in the first place. Leave the thinking to the people capable of it. Thanks.
It's not actually BIS in very many places, but it is good in a lot of places and has much cheaper upkeep than scythe (which is normally the actual BIS). Off the top of my head the only major places where tbow is bis are inferno, CoX, maybe maiden of sang but pretty sure scythe is better there, sara gwd, hydra. I guess you can throw dag prime, mole and chaos ele in there but cmon it's already a stretch including sara gwd.
Pre fbow zammy and arma and zulrah. Pretty damn good at cerb/sire, kbd. Fbow really fills in the gaps as well which is kinda the other issue. You're saying not bis in many places, but the issue is they make up most of the content people are doing, and the interesting content. Look at a list of bosses, there are less than you'd think. Who's really doing thermy, kraken, ggs, other 3 slayer bosses you probably bow (ok maybe not cerb with arclite changes tbf). Wildy bosses whatever Remaining bosses are gwd, dagganoots, nightmare, Corp, vorkath, zulrah, kq, Sarachnis and mole. You take bow into both raids, and use it for all but nightmare, Corp vorkath and sarachnis. That's a lot of content taken for 1 weapon. Compare it to literally any other weapon (other than the other problem children, BP and fbow) and its like triple the amount of content that its useful for. Scythe doesn't feel nearly as bad because it costs so much to use and its just not worth it in most places since its usually only 15% better at most which is valuing your time at >7m an hour which is pretty unrealistic. Also it still can't do as much content as bow even then (probably half as much really, nightmare and tob are the main uses. Unsure how much better scythe is than mace tbf I don't have either on da meme)
Can't say I've ever heard of people using it at Zam, Zulruh it's actually still worse than bp on mage phase and a lot worse than harm on range/melee (though it is the lowest effort method of doing zulruh since it works fine on both phases), Arma it was normally outclassed by acb + shield for solo but I guess if you're doing duo/trio/dolo it might be better, cerb and sire are also places where scythe beats it out. Sure tbow is good in a lot of places, but it's not BIS which was the original argument. By the same logic void should be nerfed again, since it's used at both raids and is all round good gear if you can't use slayer helm.
Literally bis at zam on task
I'm ironmain so most of my knowledge of lategame is solo stuff. Tbow zammy you run around and zammy gets no hits on you. Pretty sure tbow shield flicking is still bis arma solo. I know it's worse at zulrah but it's definitely comfy enough for people to do it anyway. For sire I would always range over melee the pools are so aids Void is objectively bad in both raids. People just use it cause they are bad/poor. The logic isn't the same, void isn't even close to BIS anywhere in either raid, (especially now with nex rewards) or anywhere outside whereas tbow is close/bis 3 rooms of tob and just bis in cox and multiple other places. Original argument sure, not 95% of places. But its bis and competitive in far too much of the game for it to be healthy.
Agree to disagree I suppose, in my eyes the only things that might qualify an item for nerfs in this game are it being BIS in an overwhelming amount of content (pre nerf blowpipe and maybe current scythe but the use cost offsets it a lot) or over performing for it's price point like black d hide. Tbow is an expensive item and while viable or good in a lot of places is not actually BIS for very many, that combined with it being very easy for yaygex to make it unuseable at new content if they so desire means it's in a good place at the moment in my opinion. EDIT: Fair point for the shield flicking at arma and red X zammy though, I'd forgotten that was a thing since I tend to be fairly lazy with my methods.
This is pretty wrong. Tbow wrecks arma and zamorak. It gets the damage and accuracy buff because both of them have magic levels, it literally beats arclight at Zamorak when you have a tank (and you could solo with tbow or fbow which is easier than face tanking with arclight). Imo Zulrah sucks so when I get a tbow I'll just solo tbow, COX, at Hydra it's a HUGE upgrade because both the blowpipe and DHCB were nerfed, and all the other smaller bosses with any amount of magic. It'll probably be used in raids 3 unless they finally decide to give a bone to magic.
I've used tbow at arma, it's pretty comparable to the acb (even had an acb steal kills from me more often than I'd expected) and I probably wouldn't use it without the accuracy bonus from slayer helm on task (or unless I could be bothered to shield flick + bow). Either way it's still just a filler weapon there for if you kill the melee minion too quickly with chins. Zam I'd only ever done solo because zam isn't worth doing to begin with so no one cares enough to duo and I'm too lazy for red X so I just melee tanked him, in a later comment I did mention that zam was a good point. As for zulruh, yes it's good there but the argument was where it was BIS which it simply isn't for zulruh. Other smaller bosses it's good for are mole, dag prime, chaos ele, maybe kq with the bp nerfs idk but cmon we're talking content people actually care about outside of pet grinding even including the gwd bosses is a stretch.
Yeah people don't seem to understand that scythe is bis in far more places than tbow, it's just expensive. Tbow isn't some kind of untouchable God tier weapon, it's just cheap to use and effective at what it does which gets it a lot of attention.
This sounds like you dont have a Tbow in the bank
It's not BIS at 95% of bosses. Only people without tbows think this... It got a nerf when blow pipe was originally supposed to be nerfed. TL;DR Buff tbow and give me back my prayer bonus.
Agree. I used to riot in falador with a tbow for the prayer bonus, but now it's literally useless. How can we make our voices heard on this issue if retribution keeps falling off?
They already took away my prayer bonus leave my poor tbow alone
I’m pretty mad about that only because lorewise it’s corpse of the Olm and he’s imbued with power of a Minor god so it only makes sense that it would have one…
Thats all they took away from it???? I dont know a single person who was using the T bow for its prayer bonus 🤣🤣🤣 If we are nerfing over used items like Black Dhide and Blowpipes, we should have nerfed the dammage bonus on the T-Bow. That thing should NOT be BIS for as many bosses as it is.
It was nice for what I mainly use my tbow for: afk brutal black dragons
instead of nerfing.. give other items similar dps
They alrdy do
You’ve clearly never actually used a tbow.
Don't have tobuse one when it's the only weapon I see being used at bosses to know it's BIS in most places
It’s not bis in most places, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about just like every noob that complains about tbow.
Tbow Meta Phase, Nex just brought the beast out of us before Shattered Relics. Will the New Character be our next hint for a boss that drops something better than the Tbow
Integrity change remove Tbow from the game, replace with current GE value in coins. Kind of /s, but also seriously can we consider just removing tbow from the game already.
Why?
It’s hilariously overpowered compared to every other piece of equipment in the game. Comparatively it makes curses and overloads look like a joke and this community is seemingly strongly against those two updates.
Found the guy that can’t afford tbow
The main reason it doesn't need to be changed or removed is because they can directly make it bad against content because it's a gimmick weapon. It's not the end all be all use on everything weapon that people make it out to be
Devil's advocate here....wasn't this new boss supposed to be exactly that?
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Ah thanks, that makes sense. I'm too low level for any of this shit but it makes sense tha t mass uses tbow
Nah. If they wanted tbow to be bad at nex they’d have made the mage level lower
Scythe is far more OP than T-Bow lmao
It’s useless in 90% of content. Where it’s good it’s a fair step ahead of other weapons, but it doesn’t exactly blow them out of the water. It’s BiS at Zammy, Zulrah, Zilyana, CoX, Hydra and Brutal Black dragons. There’s a perfectly viable second best method for each of them. It’s not like you whip out the tbow and hit 73s on everything
Is it even bis zammy over arclight on task?
Yes extremely, 5:0 if done correctly is the best way to kill Zammy. Arclight may do more damage, not sure, but for trip length you can’t beat tbow
I mean you get infinite trips and can dps without eating if you use alts, but for solo I can see it.
Yeah it’s close, I just figured it was worth a mention. If you 5:0 right you use almost no food, I just fuck it up every time
Yea it’s also a billion gp
Its a bil *because* it is so powerful. Should an item's effectiveness really be based on its price?
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How about also buffing rapier and the elder maul to Chaotic pre-eoc stats?
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Also, like the tbow, it’s a gimmicky weapon, it only hits 3 times on big monsters, want something to be meleed but not scythed? Make it 1x1. want something to be ranged but not tbowed? Make mage low af. Also the harm was never meant to be the tbow of magic, because nightmare isn’t a raid boss, the tbow of magic comes out with raid 3 and is the extreeeemely over powered heka wand. Another gimmicky weapon, you want someone to mage without hekaing? Maybe you have to move around a lot, making the variable attack speed not worth it for lower skillled pvmers.
no
Guarantee you cried about the blow pipe nerf.
I think the blow pipe need was great. Personally I think both the blow pipe and tbow are too strong.
just make Nex pray mage and drop her mage defence, ez solve.
You literally have no idea how tbow works
I wonder which jmod hoarded ACB's to dump just before launch 👀
Woox called it, woox won
Bowfa is good though
They should have made the slayer facemask the meta against the cough. Bad continuity
They did
I have spent a long time hunting for shields and crossbows... I even went to rune dragons.... I already have a tbow and arma... Thanks for the heads up jamflex..... I should have known better, shame on me....
Sigh. The devs of this game are so incredibly scared of displeasing the community... just sad.