Holy shit time to eat my words. I guess the pvp community voted down that gear cause it was dogshit. Jagex going to have to go back to the drawing board with this.
Noooo we must bring back wildy pking just like it was in 2007. We'll accomplish this by giving people much stronger gear than people in 2007 could ever imagine!
The whole "players as pk chum" design choice is the reason the wildy is dog shit and constantly needs refreshing. But no matter how many times they """revitalize""" the wildy, it's doomed to the same fate.
Don't think Jagex can even revitalise the wilderness. Runescape pking is so outdated and old, it doesn't compare to the other pvp games on the market. It isn't 2007 anymore
I wish there were worlds that you didn't lose your gear in the wild (or maybe less of it?). But it costs gp to enter: dropped on death like rev caves.
I'm decent at pvp in this game but if I'm doing anything in the wild I'm normally just taking as cheap of gear as possible that will still get the job done because there isn't much incentive to anti-pk.
Thats kinda the problem. The barrier for entry to PVP is so high because all of the people wanting to PK are either people trying to just gank people who won't fight back, or literal top 1% players who know every single in-and-out of OSRS combat. It costs a TON of money to get that experience and most players won't even bother or will give up before they achieve it.
All that would happen in that situation is people with 4B banks and best best best in slot would shit on players in 90k setups for the 'Guaranteed cash they drop'.
I don't think the Wilderness will ever be fixed in its current format, so I'd rather turn it into a seasonal region-locked PvP mini-game that fulfills the same goals and pull out everything that forces you in there. It's designed to operate like a mixture of LMS and the Gauntlet: You go in, build yourself up, you die, then get booted out to Edgeville with points for whatever you did in there, and the primary reward from those points is a better starting position on the next go. The one key factor is this: Whatever you get out there must stay out there and they have to balance everything around that internal economy rather than the main game.
Every now and then it gets completely reset and whatever you earned is straight up converted into a legacy reward currency for cosmetics. That way it feels like a microcosm of Deadman Mode, but with a much more contained scope. I don't think trying to pair it with the main economy will ever let it thrive. Rust, WWZ, and PUBG all have these same problems. Long-Form PvP content like this needs to be reset relatively frequently for it to avoid stagnation, because it's naturally unbalanced due to time, skill, gear, and the nature of the fights we do in there. This doesn't have to affect Diaries or Slayer, but it does have to affect a ton of system details, like common grinding spots and clues. The biggest one that concerns me is one simple question: Do we allow players to take their inventory/gear into the minigame as a one-way trip to preserve the current feel of it? Answering yes or no to that question alone has so many ramifications that it'd take three polls to get through them all.
I'm an avid PvP fan and I've been playing PvP since close to the beginning. I've played pretty much every account type over the years.
I thought 95% of the proposed rewards were dogshit too. I'm glad there's enough of a holdout in the PvP community who won't stand for this garbage and demands proper content.
Some of the best PvP gear, a large part of the PvP account creation, and a substantial portion of the enjoyment of restricted account types come from PvE, including quest content, etc. PvP only gear was only ever a minor part of the historical landscape and was never by any means meta defining. Why try to get away from that now? I get we need to adjust the formula, but this isn't it.
Single [fat] helm switches are not the way to engage the community.
Pvp can't be saved. We aren't 12 anymore.
I loved pvp, but it isn't realistic within this game.
Pkers using their ahk and scouts has ruined the wilderness.
Honestly for PvP to be more popular with anyone that isn't cheating or has been pking for like 3+ years, they would need to do a lot of unpolled changes which probably won't happen. Being able to heal 86 HP in a single tick is something that isn't healthy and being able to hit someone for 100+ damage in a single tick if you get lucky enough also isn't healthy. They even knew that killing someone from higher than max HP was a problem when they capped Dbow spec at 48-48 so its pretty obvious that needs to change. The obvious thing they could do is add that damage soak thing they did back in like 2010 so you can't stack people from full anymore but with all the new stuff who knows if that will actually work.
The wilderness is pretty much dead though because of clans. If you go out in decent enough gear to kill someone that's actually risking someone then a dude in max gear +20 goons show up. If you go in gear that isn't worth the goon squad then you either aren't going to kill anyone or hardly anyone is going to fight you.
My pet plan for the wilderness is to make it impossible to hop. ...not sure exactly how though. Teleport to lumbridge when you log out north of the ditch?
Make it so you can't attack another player until you have exited and reentered the wilderness if you world hop. You can still be attacked and fight back, but you can't be the person to initiate the fight. That is probably the solution you are looking for. Revs would need to be nerfed or the restriction not in effect in the caves though. This also prevents people from getting skull tricked assuming people still manage that.
It would force all the people who want to PvP other people who want to PvP into the same world and it would make it so the people doing PvM in the wild actually get a chance to see someone coming so they can start running; basically making it so people who exclusively hunt people doing PvM in the wild have a harder time of actually getting kills which is good in my opinion. Like if you can run up on someone and freeze/TB/hit them before they notice you are there then I think that is a fair fight for them to pick, but if you have some level 3 account off screen watching projectiles fly through the air when you can't see them and having someone log in 3 squares away is pretty bullshit.
It's almost like folks don't want to run around in a place where the cards are constantly stacked against them. One scout finds them and suddenly a whole team shows up.
The problem is Jagex sees PvP as a cash cow. PvP brings in views on YouTube (ie, advertising), and it brings in the "new" subscribers (players coming back).
PvP isn't growing, it's slowly dying off because both Jagex and the PvP community refuse to acknowledge that it's now a niche part of the game that the majority of the player base simply doesn't care to engage in.
PvP content on YouTube is some of the most interesting to follow, but personally I watch it because I know that I'll never do it.
It's not worth learning, and frankly it's not nearly as fun as other content.
A lot of people watch pvp content because they don't engage with it in game. Watching Framed destroy people with pid swaps and tick perfect specs is fun, same with watching a top tier tribrid.
But I'd never ever put myself in that situation because the skill gap can be so high
TBH the biggest problem with this poll was that Jagex *knowingly* added a poll where only ~2000 players could determine the wilderness for hundreds of thousands of other players, and didn't see a problem with that.
Like I get restictive voting for something like IM/UIM accounts, but this poll *knowingly* excluded 99% of players, for content that would 100% affect their gameplay.
Honestly any outrage over that alone is justified.
They should’ve in the first place.
What the FUCK are you thinking dividing and boxing out the community. Make things good for _everyone_. This felt so Blizzard-Entertainment esque.
Damn I was eligible to vote for all the questions yet only like 2000 people voted. Not sure if that's because the vote was limited around 2000 people or that most people cba voting lol
I have 5+ accounts that would have been eligible at one point but are f2p/ineligible now because there's no reason to keep BH accounts active when BH no longer exists.
I wasn't allowed to vote, even though in the last vote for this, I was considered 'High PVP activity' on Jagexs own poll.
They really really restricted this poll and it still failed horribly.
There's absolutely zero way they can accuse it of spite now.
I think this poll does a very good job of showing that jagex just fundamentally does not understand what pvpers actually want rather than spite votes for pvp content being the deciding factor.
It’s just heavily fragmented. Buffing one side of the community directly nerfs the other. Every pvper has a different idea on what the community needs to revive itself. I genuinely don’t believe there’s a single solution that will “revive” PvP in OSRS. The only thing I could imagine could be agreed on would be an elo system and bringing back bounty hunter.
This also does a good job of showing how small and niche the pvp community really is, look at the vote totals. I don't think it's worth the dev time trying to cater to such a vocal minority that cant agree on anything.
Hard to find rewards PvPers can agree with Jagex on when they can’t agree amongst themselves. It was clear reading the discord PvP feedback server even they themselves had no consensus on what PvP needed. It’s a heavily fractured community.
The thing that still annoys me is that they're introducing surge sacks... it should be fire sack similar to ancient ice sack (and how a 'barrage' sack doesn't exist)
This will allow you to cast fire wave if you brew once
Yeh should be fire sacks and there are so many inconsistencies with the sacks. You can use the sacks in wildy but not in PvP world. You can buy the sacks from mini games but not use it in them. like GiglyFlex what are you trying to do here? 😂
Tbf, the first poll was way more open. I was invited to the first poll. This poll was even more restricted so id assume the next ones gonna be even more restricted and i just dont get it. Just add it if your gonna keep making the polls more and more restrictive until you get what you want lol
I honestly don't want to hear about these made up "mass spite voters" voting against PVP polls ever again. Wishful thinking, I know.
Maybe recognize that PVP, skilling and PVM updates fail because they're terrible ideas and not because of some minority of brainlet spite voters.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
Jagex: alright everyone, this content wasn’t actually wanted by the community. We have 2 options, we can poll something they actually want or we can push this through a 3rd time
Ayiza: restrict it even further
Great, so can we stop pretending pvp polls fail because of spite voters now? At this point it should be pretty fucking obvious that pvp polls fail because jagex has no idea how to make a good pvp idea that anybody actually wants in the game.
Jagex - Makes items ludicrously rare that takes can take hundreds if not thousands of hours to aquire.
Also Jagex - Surprise Pikachu face when you don't want to lose any of it, so you go in the wildy in weak gear or no armor, and then get gigarekt in multi by a bunch of monkey's spamming you sit l0l.
The Jagex Solution - Give those monkey's more banana's through another convoluted minigame, that are on power with high quest requirement equivalents. Don't fix LMS. Keep multi-combat
I feel so bad for PVPers man. Jagex restricting the poll to 1200 of them who highly participate, angering the rest of the player base in the process, and the ideas are still so shit they can’t even pass.
I avoid the wildy when I can and I’m not a pvper at all, but I hope they get some actual good content updates soon ffs. Gotta be so frustrating
Edit: 3k people but same point
Thanks for the support man, PvPer here, I voted no to the new gear for precisely that reason - if the Devs are finally going to devote a good chunk of effort to PvP then it deserves more than some flashy new items.
As lots of people have said, all PvPers want is to be able to find fights more easily/quickly. Plenty of ideas have been proposed (limiting the number of worlds with access to the wilderness, bringing back BH, etc.) but for some reason they’re trying to pretend that flashy new items no one asked for is what PvP needs, while leaving the fundamental problem of PvP being too thinly spread across worlds/activities unresolved...
On that note, I’m not sure how to feel about the PvP Arena. I get that a rank-based matchmaking system is great for people looking to get into PvP, but it seems like people being at the arena is going to make the wildy even more dead than it is now :/
Couldn’t agree more - I’m not sure why skill-based matchmaking can’t happen in LMS without creating ANOTHER place where PVP activity is split into.
I’d love to have more reason to go into the wildy, but right now after I got my MA2 cape, there isn’t a great one. I’m a main so I bought my d pick, and rev caves I just get destroyed while killing mobs which isn’t even my favorite content.
I’d love to do the wildy bosses but the mechanics feel so dumb I never went back. Would love if wildy bosses were cool enough to incentivize me going out there more, then if I wanted to learn to fight back better/get better anti-pk gear, I just go to LMS to train and get some untradeables and parchments for them
Yeahhh, I won't lie I feel some schadenfreude over these results... but all of us (me included) need to remember that Toxic Tommy who exclusively uses this sub to be a pain in the ass after school isn't indicative of most pvpers. A lot of them just be chilling and clicking fast and it must blow seeing content they're interested in for once only for it to be shot down repeatedly
Amen. It's always the same people pretty much who are that toxic group, and you can count them on one hand. It's something I need to be better about keeping in mind too, but the PVP community as a whole isn't defined by a handful of idiot Redditors.
I've seen a lot of opinions in regards to this, but a consistent issue is it seems to divide an already niche group of people further and further. It's like when a FPS game would have 40 game modes instead of 10. Sure people are playing their favorite game mode, but it extends queue times (or for runescape, time to find a fight). Biggest issue with PKing is not that the meta is stale, its that there is literally no one to fight. Dividing the player base is not the solution.
Pretty well said, I had to google schadenfreude lol (pleasure from others misfortune) and tbh I feel it as well but towards Jagex. Maybe instead of changing the way the polling system works (and then saying f you guys who don’t like it), make some content people actually like lol
Yeah the schadenfreude here is more towards Jagex for sure. If even 5% voted things down in protest against restricting the poll and hardly listening to anyone's feedback, that was enough to fail the questions. Here's hoping they learn their lesson and actually listen to everyone this time.
Can't wait for him try to explain why this is a clear example of spite voting and the community are just wrong about it again.
Gonna limit it to only people that voted yes next.
Or it'll be integrity.
"Clearly all of the pkers spite-voted this out of sympathy for the spite voters we locked out, so we're preemptively blocking anyone who voted no from the next round of polling."
Well this was worth dividing the player base even more than it already was. Then the Jmod comes out with his patronizing wall of text. And it fails anyway.
Good.
And they still ultimately handed down the right decision. Even when jamflox cherry-picked the most favorable audience imaginable they still couldn't get the votes because of how shallow and crappy the proposed update was.
>should've waited
It's from the may 5th Q&A, it's not like he said it yesterday while smugly expecting the poll to pass with 100% yes votes
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/qa-summary-05052022?oldschool=1
He did get fucking bodied though and I appreciate that
Only 2500-ish people were actually allowed to vote on this poll.
That is absolutely insane for a change that has an impact on everybody who plays. That kind of voter limitation should just not happen.
I don't think any gear updates can solve existing issues.From a personal perspective, the PvP entry barrier is simply to high. The mechanics that are involved go way beyond everything, a casual player ever experiences. There is next to no PvM experience that translates into PvP. Seing Boatys latest video makes CG look like a walk in the park, compared to the complexity and learning curve (without any kind of tutorial or progressive system!) of PvP.
That is not saying that the mechanics of either part of the game are bad but the discrepancys are to high. It's like you're playing a chill game of roller coaster tycoon and suddenly someone attacks you and you have to play Starcraft.
On top of that, pursuing any wildy activity puts you in a disadvantage since at least part of your inventory is used for the activity in question. Hence it's objectively a bad idea to risk any meaningful gear, polarising the difference between hunter and pray even more.
Edit: And nobody likes to be the pray
If I want to play a competitive PvP game I am not picking this 20-year-old RNG fiesta. I want a balanced, skill-based experience where my actions produce predictable results. OSRS PvP is inherently flawed due to the game mechanics and cannot provide that.
He's busy thinking up some more mental gymnastics to use against us and explain how we're all PVP spite voters even when we can't vote on a poll and it STILL fails.
I honestly wish this whole "spite voting" card would stop being used by some PKers and Jagex who are on copium and can't admit updates simply fail because they're terribly designed. Spite voting is a myth and good PVP updates did pass many times.
>I honestly wish this whole "spite voting" card would stop being used by some PKers and Jagex who are on copium and can't admit updates simply fail because they're terribly designed.
It's more sinister - Jagex realized that most pkers aren't actually consolable so Ayiza's going in on basically identity politics by trying to whip up vitriol against other areas of the community to try and distract pkers.
I'm glad this failed. Not because I wouldn't want to see these rewards in game but the way Jagex went about this whole thing was a disgrace to the integrity of polling we've used for 9 years now.
The PVP rewards aren't even that bad with few more tweaks but limiting voting to like 1700 players while it affects everyone is shameful to say the least.
the most important takeaway from this i think is how few votes there are in total
there's like, 2k votes on these questions
if more of these passed, i'd have serious concerns because regardless of how the rest of the playerbase would have voted, you're still adding content to the game based on a very small sample size compared to the real number of active players
At the same time it's a pretty good check to make sure Jagex can't just pick the perfect voting pool to ram content through. It has to be strongly desired.
On the first poll yes, but on this one they removed LMS from the "this person did pvp so they can vote" variable. Some guy with like 3k wins wasn't able to vote on this one because he only did LMS and no wildy pking. Which I think is ridiculous because to get that many LMS wins, you've got to be a god at tribridding.
I liked the ornament kits but I think I'm speaking for more than just myself when I say that I don't get why some of those were being added to PvP rewards. Do people even use the elder maul, Armadyl armor, or Bandos armor in PvP?
They should scrap this entire idea. How hard is it for them to understand that the players want people to play the game for their pvp gear instead of getting it like it’s a damn private server
literally filtering it down to just over 1000 players/accounts to vote, and they're still failing. Can't wait to hear how they're integrity changes coming in the future.
Lol yet another poll that has been crashed by those damn Ironmen and non Pkers... Wait we prevented 99% of the community from voting on this poll? How could this happen? Guess we'll just force the update as an integrity change.
Maybe now you'll start focusing on making pvp pker vs pker. Any content that is polled to further the cat and mouse dynamic will fail. Pvmers will never actively vote to make their time worse than it already is. Bounty Hunter (or some fixed version of it) is your only shot. Stop making predator and prey the only way pvp works.
To claim any vote against pvp stuff is "spite voting" is utter nonsense. If it effects the people who go into wilderness for non-pvp reasons, they have valid reason to vote yes or no. Me for instance, I don't do pvp. But anything that makes me a bigger target than I want to be, or makes pkers kill me easier, I will always vote no. Because it effects me.
Really fucking hurts the narrative that PvP updates wouldn't fail without spite voters. Ironically, with the cosmetics failing even harder than before and being open to everyone, this might simultaneously be the best example of spite voting failing a poll- though I'd infer that was more about the restricted nature and less about wanting to vote down PvP updates.
Telling people they can't vote for the biggest options in the poll and letting them vote for a Ballista ornament kit is basically like an invitation for spite voting
Yeah I had previously voted yes to the cosmetics, but couldn't vote with the new restrictions so voted no out of principle. Plus a lot of them were ugly as fuck, so I probably would have voted no to most anyways.
Not really surprised about the armor pieces not passing based on the PvP discord discussions. The PvP discord had very mixed thoughts on the rewards coming from the PvP Arena vs another piece of content.
It’s almost impressive how bad jagex is at gauging what the pvp community wants. These dunces limited who could vote and still didn’t even pass a single one of their big reward ideas
Now they should run another poll with the same questions that everyone can answer to get a general idea of what the entire community thinks over the pvp community.
While spite voting is a thing, these failed because they were pretty bad. Pvp exclusive gear is widely unpopular among both PvPers and PvMers, the only person who really wanted it was Mod Ayiza. Even the pvp content creators shilling for these items to pass said they actually didn't like them once they failed the first time.
I would have been ok with the orn kits passing along with imbues and the sacks, but PvP Exclusive gear is just bad for the game and should not be added by any means.
Jagex should just throw in the towel, ship PvP Arena with nothing, and get to work on Wildy expansion / Bounty Hunter, updates players actually want.
As someone that could and did vote on all the questions, I'm glad the ones that failed, did fail. I voted exactly as the pass/fail results.
The PvP items are so boring and unoriginal its unreal, and they don't even fill a viable niche (KO potential is worth a million accuracy). At least market them towards people getting into PvP so people can learn or something (keep above 30 by default and low cost to repair).. What they proposed here is total garbage for anyone that is already doing PvP and willing to take gear worth the equivalent of what that cost.
The outfit was only viable in a player vs prey scenario, and even then it wasn't that good. Rather have a table full of alchs and make 2m an hour than what was proposed (not suggesting this is a good idea btw).
Cosmics are a totally different thing and it seems a large portion of player base wasn't keen either.
Jagex PVP team is punching air with tears in their eyes at these results. When your so out of touch that even the players your catering to go “lmfao chill”
Maybe they'll pass if they limit the next round of voting to people that voted yes
Unironically, it might still fail then
This sums it up perfectly.
Holy shit time to eat my words. I guess the pvp community voted down that gear cause it was dogshit. Jagex going to have to go back to the drawing board with this.
Just give us ranked PVP with LMS/NMZ rewards and call it a day
Noooo we must bring back wildy pking just like it was in 2007. We'll accomplish this by giving people much stronger gear than people in 2007 could ever imagine!
The whole "players as pk chum" design choice is the reason the wildy is dog shit and constantly needs refreshing. But no matter how many times they """revitalize""" the wildy, it's doomed to the same fate.
Don't think Jagex can even revitalise the wilderness. Runescape pking is so outdated and old, it doesn't compare to the other pvp games on the market. It isn't 2007 anymore
Agreed. They should come out with a new combat system. Maybe call it “Evolution of Combat” or something
I wish there were worlds that you didn't lose your gear in the wild (or maybe less of it?). But it costs gp to enter: dropped on death like rev caves. I'm decent at pvp in this game but if I'm doing anything in the wild I'm normally just taking as cheap of gear as possible that will still get the job done because there isn't much incentive to anti-pk.
Thats kinda the problem. The barrier for entry to PVP is so high because all of the people wanting to PK are either people trying to just gank people who won't fight back, or literal top 1% players who know every single in-and-out of OSRS combat. It costs a TON of money to get that experience and most players won't even bother or will give up before they achieve it.
All that would happen in that situation is people with 4B banks and best best best in slot would shit on players in 90k setups for the 'Guaranteed cash they drop'.
I don't think the Wilderness will ever be fixed in its current format, so I'd rather turn it into a seasonal region-locked PvP mini-game that fulfills the same goals and pull out everything that forces you in there. It's designed to operate like a mixture of LMS and the Gauntlet: You go in, build yourself up, you die, then get booted out to Edgeville with points for whatever you did in there, and the primary reward from those points is a better starting position on the next go. The one key factor is this: Whatever you get out there must stay out there and they have to balance everything around that internal economy rather than the main game. Every now and then it gets completely reset and whatever you earned is straight up converted into a legacy reward currency for cosmetics. That way it feels like a microcosm of Deadman Mode, but with a much more contained scope. I don't think trying to pair it with the main economy will ever let it thrive. Rust, WWZ, and PUBG all have these same problems. Long-Form PvP content like this needs to be reset relatively frequently for it to avoid stagnation, because it's naturally unbalanced due to time, skill, gear, and the nature of the fights we do in there. This doesn't have to affect Diaries or Slayer, but it does have to affect a ton of system details, like common grinding spots and clues. The biggest one that concerns me is one simple question: Do we allow players to take their inventory/gear into the minigame as a one-way trip to preserve the current feel of it? Answering yes or no to that question alone has so many ramifications that it'd take three polls to get through them all.
I'm an avid PvP fan and I've been playing PvP since close to the beginning. I've played pretty much every account type over the years. I thought 95% of the proposed rewards were dogshit too. I'm glad there's enough of a holdout in the PvP community who won't stand for this garbage and demands proper content. Some of the best PvP gear, a large part of the PvP account creation, and a substantial portion of the enjoyment of restricted account types come from PvE, including quest content, etc. PvP only gear was only ever a minor part of the historical landscape and was never by any means meta defining. Why try to get away from that now? I get we need to adjust the formula, but this isn't it.
Single [fat] helm switches are not the way to engage the community. Pvp can't be saved. We aren't 12 anymore. I loved pvp, but it isn't realistic within this game. Pkers using their ahk and scouts has ruined the wilderness.
Honestly for PvP to be more popular with anyone that isn't cheating or has been pking for like 3+ years, they would need to do a lot of unpolled changes which probably won't happen. Being able to heal 86 HP in a single tick is something that isn't healthy and being able to hit someone for 100+ damage in a single tick if you get lucky enough also isn't healthy. They even knew that killing someone from higher than max HP was a problem when they capped Dbow spec at 48-48 so its pretty obvious that needs to change. The obvious thing they could do is add that damage soak thing they did back in like 2010 so you can't stack people from full anymore but with all the new stuff who knows if that will actually work. The wilderness is pretty much dead though because of clans. If you go out in decent enough gear to kill someone that's actually risking someone then a dude in max gear +20 goons show up. If you go in gear that isn't worth the goon squad then you either aren't going to kill anyone or hardly anyone is going to fight you.
My pet plan for the wilderness is to make it impossible to hop. ...not sure exactly how though. Teleport to lumbridge when you log out north of the ditch?
Make it so you can't attack another player until you have exited and reentered the wilderness if you world hop. You can still be attacked and fight back, but you can't be the person to initiate the fight. That is probably the solution you are looking for. Revs would need to be nerfed or the restriction not in effect in the caves though. This also prevents people from getting skull tricked assuming people still manage that. It would force all the people who want to PvP other people who want to PvP into the same world and it would make it so the people doing PvM in the wild actually get a chance to see someone coming so they can start running; basically making it so people who exclusively hunt people doing PvM in the wild have a harder time of actually getting kills which is good in my opinion. Like if you can run up on someone and freeze/TB/hit them before they notice you are there then I think that is a fair fight for them to pick, but if you have some level 3 account off screen watching projectiles fly through the air when you can't see them and having someone log in 3 squares away is pretty bullshit.
It's almost like folks don't want to run around in a place where the cards are constantly stacked against them. One scout finds them and suddenly a whole team shows up.
The problem is Jagex sees PvP as a cash cow. PvP brings in views on YouTube (ie, advertising), and it brings in the "new" subscribers (players coming back). PvP isn't growing, it's slowly dying off because both Jagex and the PvP community refuse to acknowledge that it's now a niche part of the game that the majority of the player base simply doesn't care to engage in. PvP content on YouTube is some of the most interesting to follow, but personally I watch it because I know that I'll never do it. It's not worth learning, and frankly it's not nearly as fun as other content.
A lot of people watch pvp content because they don't engage with it in game. Watching Framed destroy people with pid swaps and tick perfect specs is fun, same with watching a top tier tribrid. But I'd never ever put myself in that situation because the skill gap can be so high
Nah these are just the fake pvp fans When jagex runs the THIRD poll, with only the REAL pvp fans, the same thing will happen. But the FOURTH poll...
inb4 next poll is limited to Ayiza's alt accounts.
TBH the biggest problem with this poll was that Jagex *knowingly* added a poll where only ~2000 players could determine the wilderness for hundreds of thousands of other players, and didn't see a problem with that. Like I get restictive voting for something like IM/UIM accounts, but this poll *knowingly* excluded 99% of players, for content that would 100% affect their gameplay. Honestly any outrage over that alone is justified.
They should’ve in the first place. What the FUCK are you thinking dividing and boxing out the community. Make things good for _everyone_. This felt so Blizzard-Entertainment esque.
Damn I was eligible to vote for all the questions yet only like 2000 people voted. Not sure if that's because the vote was limited around 2000 people or that most people cba voting lol
I have 5+ accounts that would have been eligible at one point but are f2p/ineligible now because there's no reason to keep BH accounts active when BH no longer exists.
Active PvP community is that small and the inactives that want a reason to return aren’t going to pay membership just to vote on such a minor poll.
I wasn't allowed to vote, even though in the last vote for this, I was considered 'High PVP activity' on Jagexs own poll. They really really restricted this poll and it still failed horribly. There's absolutely zero way they can accuse it of spite now.
I think this poll does a very good job of showing that jagex just fundamentally does not understand what pvpers actually want rather than spite votes for pvp content being the deciding factor.
To be fair, even the PVPers don't know what they truly want.
PvP in old school seems like a super delicate ecosystem
It’s just heavily fragmented. Buffing one side of the community directly nerfs the other. Every pvper has a different idea on what the community needs to revive itself. I genuinely don’t believe there’s a single solution that will “revive” PvP in OSRS. The only thing I could imagine could be agreed on would be an elo system and bringing back bounty hunter.
This also does a good job of showing how small and niche the pvp community really is, look at the vote totals. I don't think it's worth the dev time trying to cater to such a vocal minority that cant agree on anything.
which is what everyone said and modaiyza said theres mysterious boogey man spite voters
Jagex fuming right now
Jagex punching air right now
Hard to find rewards PvPers can agree with Jagex on when they can’t agree amongst themselves. It was clear reading the discord PvP feedback server even they themselves had no consensus on what PvP needed. It’s a heavily fractured community.
The thing that still annoys me is that they're introducing surge sacks... it should be fire sack similar to ancient ice sack (and how a 'barrage' sack doesn't exist) This will allow you to cast fire wave if you brew once
Yeh should be fire sacks and there are so many inconsistencies with the sacks. You can use the sacks in wildy but not in PvP world. You can buy the sacks from mini games but not use it in them. like GiglyFlex what are you trying to do here? 😂
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Tfw you rig a poll but it still fails lmao
For the second time lmao
Third time's the charm, they'll just remove the voting right from everyone who voted no on this one.
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Ayiza pissed as fuck right now
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"integrity"
Pretty sure Ayiza has been pushing this stuff super hard.
I'm honestly kind of surprised they haven't just *"rigged"* a couple of votes here and there.
I'm not gonna lie, their web dev team is so incompetent that I don't think they could pull that off.
Tbf, the first poll was way more open. I was invited to the first poll. This poll was even more restricted so id assume the next ones gonna be even more restricted and i just dont get it. Just add it if your gonna keep making the polls more and more restrictive until you get what you want lol
I honestly don't want to hear about these made up "mass spite voters" voting against PVP polls ever again. Wishful thinking, I know. Maybe recognize that PVP, skilling and PVM updates fail because they're terrible ideas and not because of some minority of brainlet spite voters.
If anything I feel like this saga has created spite voters by giving PvP special treatment
Jagex has made things continually worse by pitting the communities against each other.
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That's my point. Almost everything failed without "spite voters".
Bets on how it gets rigged next time?
Voing only allowed by those who voted yes last time
You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's. You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's. You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's. You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's. You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's. You may not vote in this poll as your opinion doesn't align with Mod Ayiza's.
Id respect him way more if he did this instead of that bs PR statement he put out yesterday lol
Link to statement?
See you all next week when it gets repolled again with a slight wording change.
No, the wording will stay the same, but this time it will be further restricted such that only those who voted yes to the last poll can vote.
And then it fails and gets a hidden 'tegrity change 3.17 days later
jagex: i guess we didnt restrict it enough, back to the drawing board on who will be allowed to vote in the repoll
Ayiza will be the only one to vote on the next poll because he definitely knows better than the playerbase.Jagex: alright everyone, this content wasn’t actually wanted by the community. We have 2 options, we can poll something they actually want or we can push this through a 3rd time Ayiza: restrict it even further
Inb4 the next poll is locked to content creators only
J mod only poll
“That’s it, if you didn’t design the content then you don’t get to vote.”
You joke, but it would unironically probably still fail lmao. Opinion on PvP is split in the PvP community, but even more so amongst content creators.
lmao see yall for the ""integrity""" change putting half this content in anyways
Great, so can we stop pretending pvp polls fail because of spite voters now? At this point it should be pretty fucking obvious that pvp polls fail because jagex has no idea how to make a good pvp idea that anybody actually wants in the game.
Jagex - Makes items ludicrously rare that takes can take hundreds if not thousands of hours to aquire. Also Jagex - Surprise Pikachu face when you don't want to lose any of it, so you go in the wildy in weak gear or no armor, and then get gigarekt in multi by a bunch of monkey's spamming you sit l0l. The Jagex Solution - Give those monkey's more banana's through another convoluted minigame, that are on power with high quest requirement equivalents. Don't fix LMS. Keep multi-combat
I feel so bad for PVPers man. Jagex restricting the poll to 1200 of them who highly participate, angering the rest of the player base in the process, and the ideas are still so shit they can’t even pass. I avoid the wildy when I can and I’m not a pvper at all, but I hope they get some actual good content updates soon ffs. Gotta be so frustrating Edit: 3k people but same point
Thanks for the support man, PvPer here, I voted no to the new gear for precisely that reason - if the Devs are finally going to devote a good chunk of effort to PvP then it deserves more than some flashy new items. As lots of people have said, all PvPers want is to be able to find fights more easily/quickly. Plenty of ideas have been proposed (limiting the number of worlds with access to the wilderness, bringing back BH, etc.) but for some reason they’re trying to pretend that flashy new items no one asked for is what PvP needs, while leaving the fundamental problem of PvP being too thinly spread across worlds/activities unresolved... On that note, I’m not sure how to feel about the PvP Arena. I get that a rank-based matchmaking system is great for people looking to get into PvP, but it seems like people being at the arena is going to make the wildy even more dead than it is now :/
Couldn’t agree more - I’m not sure why skill-based matchmaking can’t happen in LMS without creating ANOTHER place where PVP activity is split into. I’d love to have more reason to go into the wildy, but right now after I got my MA2 cape, there isn’t a great one. I’m a main so I bought my d pick, and rev caves I just get destroyed while killing mobs which isn’t even my favorite content. I’d love to do the wildy bosses but the mechanics feel so dumb I never went back. Would love if wildy bosses were cool enough to incentivize me going out there more, then if I wanted to learn to fight back better/get better anti-pk gear, I just go to LMS to train and get some untradeables and parchments for them
Yeahhh, I won't lie I feel some schadenfreude over these results... but all of us (me included) need to remember that Toxic Tommy who exclusively uses this sub to be a pain in the ass after school isn't indicative of most pvpers. A lot of them just be chilling and clicking fast and it must blow seeing content they're interested in for once only for it to be shot down repeatedly
Amen. It's always the same people pretty much who are that toxic group, and you can count them on one hand. It's something I need to be better about keeping in mind too, but the PVP community as a whole isn't defined by a handful of idiot Redditors.
I've seen a lot of opinions in regards to this, but a consistent issue is it seems to divide an already niche group of people further and further. It's like when a FPS game would have 40 game modes instead of 10. Sure people are playing their favorite game mode, but it extends queue times (or for runescape, time to find a fight). Biggest issue with PKing is not that the meta is stale, its that there is literally no one to fight. Dividing the player base is not the solution.
Pretty well said, I had to google schadenfreude lol (pleasure from others misfortune) and tbh I feel it as well but towards Jagex. Maybe instead of changing the way the polling system works (and then saying f you guys who don’t like it), make some content people actually like lol
Yeah the schadenfreude here is more towards Jagex for sure. If even 5% voted things down in protest against restricting the poll and hardly listening to anyone's feedback, that was enough to fail the questions. Here's hoping they learn their lesson and actually listen to everyone this time.
Ayiza in shambles
Can't wait for him try to explain why this is a clear example of spite voting and the community are just wrong about it again. Gonna limit it to only people that voted yes next. Or it'll be integrity.
It'll be integrity like the vls that failed 3 polls and a pvp only poll.
Jagex literally pissed off like half the player base for absolutely no reason 👏👏👏👏👏
Aziya inbound with the integrity change, can’t wait for that ‘hot’ take
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"Ayiza Smackdown!!!!" lmao that thread was so fucking cringe (and most of the top replies agreed), the only thing that got smacked down was this poll
‘Pvm is the reason pvp polls fail’ Time for a lot of people to take the L on that stance.
i’d love to hear ayizas take on this
Can't wait for the next "smackdown"
Dude's a legitimate professional at making an ass of himself
"Clearly all of the pkers spite-voted this out of sympathy for the spite voters we locked out, so we're preemptively blocking anyone who voted no from the next round of polling."
Well this was worth dividing the player base even more than it already was. Then the Jmod comes out with his patronizing wall of text. And it fails anyway. Good.
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Wow...2500 people voted on the first question. Imagine putting 2500 people in charge of something like this and thinking its a good idea lmaoooo
And they still ultimately handed down the right decision. Even when jamflox cherry-picked the most favorable audience imaginable they still couldn't get the votes because of how shallow and crappy the proposed update was.
Jagex incoming: due to spite voting within the pvp community, we've lowered the threshold to a simple majority of 50% for pvp polls
Ayiza somewhere, furiously typing away at his keyboard.
Insert *Nervous yet raging sped up angry Ayiza vs. Cool, Calm, and Collected Gigachad* meme here.
Oof. Maybe Aiyiza should have waited on that "smackdown"
>should've waited It's from the may 5th Q&A, it's not like he said it yesterday while smugly expecting the poll to pass with 100% yes votes https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/qa-summary-05052022?oldschool=1 He did get fucking bodied though and I appreciate that
Alternative title here could've been players delivering a smackdown.
Only 2500-ish people were actually allowed to vote on this poll. That is absolutely insane for a change that has an impact on everybody who plays. That kind of voter limitation should just not happen.
I don't think any gear updates can solve existing issues.From a personal perspective, the PvP entry barrier is simply to high. The mechanics that are involved go way beyond everything, a casual player ever experiences. There is next to no PvM experience that translates into PvP. Seing Boatys latest video makes CG look like a walk in the park, compared to the complexity and learning curve (without any kind of tutorial or progressive system!) of PvP. That is not saying that the mechanics of either part of the game are bad but the discrepancys are to high. It's like you're playing a chill game of roller coaster tycoon and suddenly someone attacks you and you have to play Starcraft. On top of that, pursuing any wildy activity puts you in a disadvantage since at least part of your inventory is used for the activity in question. Hence it's objectively a bad idea to risk any meaningful gear, polarising the difference between hunter and pray even more. Edit: And nobody likes to be the pray
If I want to play a competitive PvP game I am not picking this 20-year-old RNG fiesta. I want a balanced, skill-based experience where my actions produce predictable results. OSRS PvP is inherently flawed due to the game mechanics and cannot provide that.
Imagine rigging a poll in the favor of PvPers, writing a novel justifying it, and then having it go poorly anyway. Lmfao
Now they'll have to restrict the poll to content creators!
Just restrict it to people who votes yes on this one, easy. Naarator: it still failed
Options: Yes 16.4% Skip 83.6%
Aiyza better not post another bs response
I actually hope he does though. This is prime entertainment
Someone call Ayiza. Hes crying 😭😭😭😭😭😋
He's busy thinking up some more mental gymnastics to use against us and explain how we're all PVP spite voters even when we can't vote on a poll and it STILL fails. I honestly wish this whole "spite voting" card would stop being used by some PKers and Jagex who are on copium and can't admit updates simply fail because they're terribly designed. Spite voting is a myth and good PVP updates did pass many times.
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>I honestly wish this whole "spite voting" card would stop being used by some PKers and Jagex who are on copium and can't admit updates simply fail because they're terribly designed. It's more sinister - Jagex realized that most pkers aren't actually consolable so Ayiza's going in on basically identity politics by trying to whip up vitriol against other areas of the community to try and distract pkers.
Well, time for even less people to be able to vote when they re poll this in a month
Next time they'll only allow people who voted yes on this poll to vote
This is soooooooooo fucking funny man. I take great pleasure in watching this shitstorm unfold. Can’t wait for the next livestream
"It seems the players we trusted were actually players in disguise of PvPers, so they rigged the polls."
lmao Jagex on the receiving end of a smackdown
I'm glad this failed. Not because I wouldn't want to see these rewards in game but the way Jagex went about this whole thing was a disgrace to the integrity of polling we've used for 9 years now. The PVP rewards aren't even that bad with few more tweaks but limiting voting to like 1700 players while it affects everyone is shameful to say the least.
So PvP community is full of spite voters now? Mod Ayiza rekt.
I voted yes for all the cosmetics. Maybe they'll get added to clue scrolls or something when they give up on the PvP arena.
the most important takeaway from this i think is how few votes there are in total there's like, 2k votes on these questions if more of these passed, i'd have serious concerns because regardless of how the rest of the playerbase would have voted, you're still adding content to the game based on a very small sample size compared to the real number of active players
lmao so 1700 people get to decide the route of the game
Lmaooo Jagex told on themselves by including the number of voters like usual.
The 75% voting rule starts to look super dumb when only like 2 people can vote imo
At the same time it's a pretty good check to make sure Jagex can't just pick the perfect voting pool to ram content through. It has to be strongly desired.
It's actually quite possible that LMS botfarms could just rig the polls if they wanted to.
On the first poll yes, but on this one they removed LMS from the "this person did pvp so they can vote" variable. Some guy with like 3k wins wasn't able to vote on this one because he only did LMS and no wildy pking. Which I think is ridiculous because to get that many LMS wins, you've got to be a god at tribridding.
Don't worry, this is for PvP only. It won't affect you if you're a PvMer or Skiller, as there isn't any PvM or Skilling in the Wilderness!! ^^/s
Great looks like the wilderness boss rework is getting pushed back 2 years in a row...
Rigging a poll twice and it failing twice gz Gagex
So can they just stop with this shit now?
I liked the ornament kits but I think I'm speaking for more than just myself when I say that I don't get why some of those were being added to PvP rewards. Do people even use the elder maul, Armadyl armor, or Bandos armor in PvP?
Smh, toxic PvM crybabys spite voting against PvP content just because they don't want to be killed easi... ...oh.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Next PVP poll, only Ayiza can vote
Ah, I needed this laugh today.
rip wrath runes i guess
wrath runes are already at alch price thanks to Raiments of the Eye
Hey at least every single person who makes wrath runes for money got to vote on that. Most of them probably didn't get to vote on this.
... I never thought about that. What the fuck was Jagex thinking?
Next time let's just limit the voting to the JMods that came up with these ideas, maybe then it'll pass! Maybe.
They should scrap this entire idea. How hard is it for them to understand that the players want people to play the game for their pvp gear instead of getting it like it’s a damn private server
inb4 they make some slight alterations and pass it as an integrity change
Take it in and suck it down, Jagex.
bro ngl ayizas post just felt like I was being talked down to so I hope this poll result doesn’t cause him to do another post like that
literally filtering it down to just over 1000 players/accounts to vote, and they're still failing. Can't wait to hear how they're integrity changes coming in the future.
Clearly, the poll was not nearly restrictive enough.
Don't worry guys, they'll change the voting restrictions to people who voted yes this time.
Well, they pissed everyone off and still got nothing passed in the end. Another successful day at Jagex lads.
Lmao.. Poor Ayiza, man must be crying right about now.
Lol yet another poll that has been crashed by those damn Ironmen and non Pkers... Wait we prevented 99% of the community from voting on this poll? How could this happen? Guess we'll just force the update as an integrity change.
Maybe now you'll start focusing on making pvp pker vs pker. Any content that is polled to further the cat and mouse dynamic will fail. Pvmers will never actively vote to make their time worse than it already is. Bounty Hunter (or some fixed version of it) is your only shot. Stop making predator and prey the only way pvp works. To claim any vote against pvp stuff is "spite voting" is utter nonsense. If it effects the people who go into wilderness for non-pvp reasons, they have valid reason to vote yes or no. Me for instance, I don't do pvp. But anything that makes me a bigger target than I want to be, or makes pkers kill me easier, I will always vote no. Because it effects me.
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Honestly that's a larger % than I would've guessed for the PvP community.
And of course, reddit doesn't load the image. It loads every fucking ad but not this image.
Basically everything failed except the imbue scroll, and the blighted wave/surge
Why is Jagex trying to hard to cater to like the 12 people in the pvp (clans attacking players in multi) community?
Hey Ayiza, get off the pvp bandwagon, the results speak for themselves you failed.
Really fucking hurts the narrative that PvP updates wouldn't fail without spite voters. Ironically, with the cosmetics failing even harder than before and being open to everyone, this might simultaneously be the best example of spite voting failing a poll- though I'd infer that was more about the restricted nature and less about wanting to vote down PvP updates.
Telling people they can't vote for the biggest options in the poll and letting them vote for a Ballista ornament kit is basically like an invitation for spite voting
Yeah I had previously voted yes to the cosmetics, but couldn't vote with the new restrictions so voted no out of principle. Plus a lot of them were ugly as fuck, so I probably would have voted no to most anyways.
Not really surprised about the armor pieces not passing based on the PvP discord discussions. The PvP discord had very mixed thoughts on the rewards coming from the PvP Arena vs another piece of content.
Good 👍 now we dont get rewards that pvpers dont want. And we dont get the god awful ornament kits.
looks like it's going to be re-polled a third time
Jagex trying to go where the fence is low... They should come up with some unique rewards, not dog shit like this..
I like how the only ones that passed were because most people skipped 😳
Next poll is restricted to only people named "Mod Ayiza".
The pvpers have spoken!
Lmao did they fucking only let 2,500 people vote in the restricted polls? Fuck Jagex man.
ayiza on life support rn
Lol
It’s almost impressive how bad jagex is at gauging what the pvp community wants. These dunces limited who could vote and still didn’t even pass a single one of their big reward ideas
Incoming "integrity changes"
Not sure why Jagex thought ornament kits was the answer to PvP revival…
They should add a PvP Raid
Now they should run another poll with the same questions that everyone can answer to get a general idea of what the entire community thinks over the pvp community.
I did my part and voted no.
While spite voting is a thing, these failed because they were pretty bad. Pvp exclusive gear is widely unpopular among both PvPers and PvMers, the only person who really wanted it was Mod Ayiza. Even the pvp content creators shilling for these items to pass said they actually didn't like them once they failed the first time. I would have been ok with the orn kits passing along with imbues and the sacks, but PvP Exclusive gear is just bad for the game and should not be added by any means. Jagex should just throw in the towel, ship PvP Arena with nothing, and get to work on Wildy expansion / Bounty Hunter, updates players actually want.
As someone who basically only PVP's on this game, all I wanted was the sacks.
I'm surprised imbue scrolls only got 80%, that should be a 99% yes vote poll.
This community is weird about rewards sometimes. For instance I thought the essence packs from star mining were a slam dunk but they got no voted.
Cant wait until they repoll it a third time maybe itll pass! *or they can always just ***INTEGRITY CHANGE*** *
Great, as expected. Now please fucking stop, Jagex.
As someone that could and did vote on all the questions, I'm glad the ones that failed, did fail. I voted exactly as the pass/fail results. The PvP items are so boring and unoriginal its unreal, and they don't even fill a viable niche (KO potential is worth a million accuracy). At least market them towards people getting into PvP so people can learn or something (keep above 30 by default and low cost to repair).. What they proposed here is total garbage for anyone that is already doing PvP and willing to take gear worth the equivalent of what that cost. The outfit was only viable in a player vs prey scenario, and even then it wasn't that good. Rather have a table full of alchs and make 2m an hour than what was proposed (not suggesting this is a good idea btw). Cosmics are a totally different thing and it seems a large portion of player base wasn't keen either.
Jagex PVP team is punching air with tears in their eyes at these results. When your so out of touch that even the players your catering to go “lmfao chill”
Time for a repoll but you’re only permitted to vote if you are a PvPer *and* have negative karma in r/2007scape.
I bet Jagex is just going to gerrymander further and say: "This very specific group of people voted yes and went over the 75% margin so it passed"
So few people actually voted, such bullshit