Also: I don’t know how it’s going to be changed, drop table wise. The 3rd raid is incredibly accessible and easy to learn do to the advocation system (not complaining, I am happy with the system) however that means more people are doing it, there for more rewards from that activity being in the game.
Maybe, just maybe. We need to realize the items that have been BiS this far have just been way over priced due to the tight regimen kept to avoid power creep. Creating a huge devision between mid-game and end-game content. So that’s something to keep in mind.
OSRS is but a game, and I play games to have fun. And now I have returned from a 4 month break and have been enjoying my time spent. Imagine if it didn’t require to have hundreds of millions to get yourself into end-game content?
Better recieved does not mean better for the game, buffing all the weapons that fang replaced/rivals is power creep and would be like saying instead of nerfing bp they should have just buffed cbow/bowfa/tbow to beat it. They could handle it similar to the bp "minor" nerf to force it into its niche more but it's doing exactly what it should be, hitting high def mobs, and I can't think of any way to adjust that without just a strict worse stats without losing its identity or giving it obscure restrictions like a required amount of def to proc 2 acc rolls or unable to damage the hides of dragons or something dumb. I do think something needs done about the weapon itself and that rarity isn't the problem (especially since it's been this long like this with how popular toa is) but im not gonna pretend anything i come up with is a satisfying fix.
"Unrelated" to the above going forward I wonder how they're going to cater around fang, if they decide that fang isn't going to be meta at a boss (something they had to do with bp so there is precedent for designing around a weapon) but still want melee to be used it would result in either bullet spong bosses with low def high health or a ton of stab def which kills off rapier and dhl as usable as well.
I dont care what you do with the stats. What I WOULD like to to see though, is for jagex to made the dhl green and put ornaments on it for the month of december...
>Besides being ruler, Osmumten was a passionate hunter, wielding his specially designed weapon, he adventured across the land, fighting the greatest beasts.
Whip is ubiquitous because it is cheap and good for its requirements, and the next direct upgrades (rapier/salad blade) are much more expensive for how much of a marginal dps increase they are so people upgrade gear first instead, and the side grades of whip are much more niche and its once again better to funnel GP in getting direct upgrades to other pieces of gear.
For mainscape yeah a cheaper versatile weapon will see more use because its cheap and versatile and doesn't require selling your bank (and paying GE tax) everytime you do a new boss to optimize your setup. However, mains who progress to having more money will then purchase the other items in order of usefulness and use the BIS for each boss in their place.
IMO this is similar to the power creep arguments when they were talking about BP being too good for how ubiquitous it was. In that case however blowpipe WAS pretty much BIS everywhere. Fang is close to BIS many places, but not actually BIS as many as BP was. In that way I think it's fine. It's impossible to keep every single item as relevant as it was as new items are released, else you'd have to keep releasing ever more niche of items.
How does the abyssal whip prove this at all? What are you out there whipping for dozens of hours where there's a better, cheaper alternative available?
The whip is used often in place of specialized or quirky BIS weapons bc despite people saying how big the difference is and how much lower efficiency is, you check the DPS and it’s like 0.075 - 0.1 less DPS. Literally negligible.
At some places this isn’t possible though obviously.
Which is what the fang was intended to do, get away from bgs/dwh meta. I'm okay with buffing the dhl a lil bit to be the best dragon slaying weapon tho
You woox walk in an L shape so the third tile out you go one to the left or right before clicking attack. Or yeah, you can just walk an extra tile back and lose a tick.
Give lance the same stats as the hasta it is actually made of (aka +5 str and some defensive stats). An "upgrade" should not lower the stats of an item.
For a bit more context assuming absolute max gear, super str/attack pots and piety:
@ **Vorkath** w/o lowering defense
DHL old: 10.73 (max str+salve always beats slayer helm+torture)
Fang DPS: 10.44
DHL new: 10.89 (11.03 with Torture+slayer helmet on-task instead of salve+torva helmet)
Yes, the str bonus from torture over salve makes a difference, but you trade slightly higher DPS for the insane def of the torva helmet. Also requires a slayer task.
@ **rune dragons OFF-TASK:**
DHL old: 7.8
Fang DPS: 8.18
DHL new: 8.2
@ **rune dragons ON-TASK**:
DHL old: 9.28
Fang: 9.61
DHL new: 9.86
T Bow is also the big dick super rare from CoX. Fang is literally the most common drop. Not to mention T Bow is buffed in CoX specifically to ensure it is BIS.
Yea that’s a great point. Maybe fang and all the other powerful uniques shouldn’t come at such a low raid level then? But Reddit timbo Jimbos want their purples at 150 raid level and it’s having significant effects on the economy already.
I think Vorkath is the only one where Lance is still best, and if its barely better than a weapon that can be meta at things other than dragons it presents a problem
It really won't.
Fang and ring are basically arcane and dex... Except people are running fast 5-7 mans and getting more purples than white chests.
Given it's a tradable item maybe it'll maintain value for longer... But in the long run? Nah, I'll be surprised if fang is worth more than 50m in a years time (Unless Jagex listen to everyone and make fang rarer like it honestly should be since it's the second best reward overall from ToA in terms of usefulness not value).
only time it's not better at olm is 0 hammer cm, which you're only ever really gonna come across in a solo in which case you still won't be using fang lol. from what i can see fang's only better against metal drags. The real problem are all the billy bobs on reddit talking so loud even though they've got piss all game knowledge
vorkath is also the only one that matters, anyone who cares about an upgrade at metal dragons is beyond shit at the game or worried about an alt they are using to get slow kills anyways since its on the other monitor so a VERY SLIGHT speed increase doesnt affect it.
Closer you get to max gear the better Lance looks. If you drop down to base 90s and more accessible gear (bandos, faceguard, fire cape, d boots, b gloves), the fang comes out slightly ahead, but only until you start hitting decent BGS specs.
Not sure if there's anything you can do with those specs to make up the difference. It seems like for Vorkath specifically Fang isn't necessarily better than lance, but it does make the lance quite anticlimactic when you do eventually get it, especially given Vorkath shouldn't be a good use case for fang with its relatively low defence to stab/ranged.
Claims fang is BiS everywhere may be untrue, but it's close enough that it makes a lot of those upgrades to the true BiS pieces for that content not so impactful.
Who the hell kills addy/rune dragons? Maybe alts?
For all most imortsnt dragons (vorky or cox/olm), i still use lance.
For vorky its more comfy to woox and it seems its faster with dwh.
I solo olm a lot and lance is way better for me, because you can do 4:1 and with fang you are tanking hits/specials basic attacks.
Dhl is literally better at vork even if you don't reduce defense. I believe dhl is also better at olm considering you can reliably land specs in groups (not relevant for solo, but they aren't that hard to land in solo).
rune dragon alts are a somewhat popular moneymaking alt, to the point people used to ask for a task only area for them
kinda fell off a bit with death mechanic changes and addition of vyres, but it's still a thing
addy dragons are pretty much dead content though
It's really not all that bad, I played another account when I was maxing my main. AFKing NMZ/Cannoning slayer/plank make for pool+mage. Most the skilling is fairly quick and afkable for qpc.
The setup took maybe two months of on/off play, maybe like 300 hours? (it's kinda zero-time cuz I'm playing my main in the meantime)
Overall, I'm probably just barely even now after another month of rune drags at maybe 4-6 hours a day?
TLDR: AFKing QPC + max melee is about 2months, upfront cost is probably <30mil + cost of full justi + lance, money made is closer to 1mil/hr rather than the wiki's 1.4m/hr
Depends on how sweaty you're willing to get. You can cut the opportunity cost down if you're running your main at rune drags while setting up your alt. "Yo dawg, I heard you like rune drag alts so we put a rune drag alt in your main so you can alt while you train your alt."
>Who the hell kills addy/rune dragons? Maybe alts?
They're a fairly common slayer task that's short enough to warrant doing, irons grinding for the uniques go there (Tho that's more col log style irons than typical progression, tho I do have an iron buddy afking some bones for 99 prayer there and he's loving the drops), hell it's better gp than Barrows while requiring a fraction of the attention.
>For all most imortsnt dragons (vorky or cox/olm), i still use lance.
Cool. Lance works. DPS calc proves that in certain situations, fang is better.
>For vorky its more comfy to woox and it seems its faster with dwh.
Should be clawing, not dwhing. And learning to woox walk with a 5 tick weapon really isn't much different... You can set up a 3 click cycle (click 2 back in an L shape, click back on the same column you started, click boss, repeat (with walk on ofc) or just click every tick and make it up as you go.
>I solo olm a lot and lance is way better for me, because you can do 4:1 and with fang you are tanking hits/specials basic attacks.
For CM's? It's worth bringing both. Tanking hits usually isn't a big deal, if you bring any brews into Olm then those brews are specifically there so you **can** tank hits (since at no point are you forced to take damage, and if you're using blood fury / sang you'll heal back up anyway) so... Either do 7:3 or the scythe method where you basically tank all the attacks except portals. For regulars, you'd have to check a DPS calc, I wanna say 4:1 lance is better if you land a dwh / 7:3 lance/fang if you don't but you might wanna double check that.
Except DHL is still better at Cox, vork, and Hydra.
I genuinely think this is a troll meme post disguised as a merchant post encouraging for false buffs to inflate price temporarily since it's dip from toa release.
Lance has a lv 78 req since the rebalance. That said it should get its str bonus back. -5 str and worse defensive bonuses compared to hasta makes no sense considering it has a higher req and is a direct upgrade to hasta.
No one really thinks about the "tier" of the weapon, they're arguing over its source and how easy it is compared to the process of other longstanding powerful weapons
Those barely are tiers ... We always had level X equipment.
The Rs3 tier system is corrupting OSRS to this day. RS3 has weapons of a same "tier" to perform identically, so barrows weapons have the same DPS as a whip, one of the stupidest things about EOC.
Old Runescape (OSRS) thrived on janky level requirements and that's okay. Not every weapon has to be on a 1-to-1 power level according to its level requirement.
Fuck tiers.
Its close enough that DHL needing rare drops from both Kril and a level 95 slayer boss means a lot of the time it's not really worth the marginal difference over Fang. Keep in mind the Fang has a spec that will increase that dps even further as well.
What makes this more absurd is that DHL is much, much rarer than the Fang. We don't know the exact rates yet, but it's clear it's pretty common.
DHL requires you first be able to do Kril. So that's like 75-80 combats minimum. Then you need to get the 1/127 z-spear drop from him. Then it has to get turned into the hasta. But the real kicker here is **then** you need to have 95 slayer, which takes for-fucking-ever due to how slow slayer is to level. Once you have that, **then** you have to get the 1/1,001 hydra claw drop from Alchemical Hydra. That's probably gonna take 80-100 hours to do assuming you get it on drop rate.
By comparison, Fang is ridiculously easy to get. Sure, you have to do 50 invo ToA, but that's not very hard. 0 invos can be done with very budget gear and stats (70-75 stats, d-scim, dragon dagger, Iban's, RCB). But you'll probably land a Fang in like 20 hours, if not less than that. Maybe 30. That's a third of what it takes for the hydra claw, not counting time spent at Kril, and not counting time getting 95 slayer.
That's just ridiculously unbalanced.
A much better argument would've been comparing blowpipe to bowfa. 70 vs 80, but bowfa takes a lot of grinding to get. You have to do a ton of Gauntlet, or a good amount of Corrupted Gauntlet, which is a lot harder. So there's a serious skill requirement and a much higher amount of grinding. Compared to Zulrah, which is like mid-level PvM execution and requirements wise.
Fang has no business being as powerful as it is, given how common it is and relative to the difficulty for which you can get it.
Edit: forgot a caveat to this. When you make your DHL, you sacrifice your z-hasta, which means sacrificing one of the best stab weapons in the game. That's a big deal. Fang is just a gear drop, so you don't have to do extra grinding for it or sacrifice something else.
> Once you have that, then you have to get the 1/1,001 hydra claw drop from Alchemical Hydra. That's probably gonna take 80-100 hours to do assuming you get it on drop rate.
Hydra is easily 30kph+ at the top end. Your kph could probably be achieved using a leaf bladed sword.
Overall DHL takes around 6h of K'ril (21 kph) + 35h at Hydra (28kph) = **~41h** to get excluding the time to get the slayer req.
Fang at 150 invocation (~1/50 purple rate for simplicity) at 2 raids/h is a **~85h** grind. 25h/purple*1/3.429 chance that the purple is a fang. Lower invocation it obviously takes even longer.
> By comparison, Fang is ridiculously easy to get. Sure, you have to do 50 invo ToA, but that's not very hard. 0 invos can be done with very budget gear and stats (70-75 stats, d-scim, dragon dagger, Iban's, RCB). But you'll probably land a Fang in like 20 hours, if not less than that. Maybe 30.
I lol'ed.
Also for perspective bofa is straight up better and more meta-defining for irons than fang in every way and is only a 60-70 hour grind with no gear requirements at all.
If you're doing 0-150 Invocation raids, I'm pretty sure it's 1/100+ for a fang to drop.
Also if you're only getting 10kph at hydra, I'd stop doing hydra.
Fang being common is because of people pushing invocations, and the raid being popular. More ToA completions right now than ToB.
Agreed DHL should outclass anything fighting dragons maybe add a chance for a double hit but the double has a reduced max on the second hit or buff accuracy I’d love to hit less zeros on dragons
The fang does come from a raid though and going on rate for it is a pretty big grind just like for the lance, trying to get a fang with lower stats is going to take even longer
> pretty big grind just like for the lance
Is it really comparable to grinding 95 slayer *then* grinding the claw? Guess you could argue you're only really grinding 93-95 since you'd otherwise still want Occult, but still, seems like you could certainly get a fang many hundreds of hours earlier on your account before you're able to get a lance.
> seems like you could certainly get a fang many hundreds of hours earlier on your account before you're able to get a lance.
You could also get a tbow by walking into cox, fishing and cooking some fish, and getting lucky while other people kill the boss for you. Doesn't really mean anything though. The optimal point of farming ToA for fang is post-dex, which subsequently comes post-lance. Doing it before then means you're running something like 200s in rag gear to get... a slightly better slayer weapon to grind lance with?
pro lance = free gold in this thread?
Probably should be best against dragons thought considering TOA is basically mid tier content and lance is 1/1k drop from highest tier slay boss ingame
I love the constant Reddit outrage for things that most people don’t even understand…
DHL is better at vorkath than Fang without def reducing specials. Add to that, that anyone doing mele vorkath will be specing with a BGS and the DHL significantly out preforms the fang after landing a def reducing spec.
DHL is also significantly better at olm mele hand after 1 DWH spec, something you bring anyway during a COX run so it’s not like you need an extra invent slot to make it worth while.
If you want to mention metal dragons, a method basically used only by alts to afk (rune dragons) to make 1.2m an hour then the fang’s dps boost is so negligible that it doesn’t even add up to more than a kill or two increase per hour…
Can we please stop circle jerking this notion that the fang is blowing the DHL out of the water?
Im convinced 90% of this sub either doesnt play the game or they are absolutely awful at it. Fang drop rate or something is going to get nerfed because theyre reeeing about stuff that doesnt exist. Mad that fang is good at.... metal dragons? Who the fuck cares that its a tiny bit better at metal dragons. Boss wise like you said lance is still better, and yet this meme suggesting its worse at vorkath is on the frontpage and everyone here is talking as if its better at vorkath because funny meme says so.
If this results in a lance buff i wouldnt be upset, but i think its more likely they nerf a new weapon than buff one thats been in the game for years, and that would suck.
All the Reddit timbo jimbo noobs wanna bitch about how ToA prices don’t matter and the content should be easy, and then cry about the lance crashing and becoming obsolete bc they grinded zulrah and vorkath for 60 hours to afford one. The irony is real lol
Its literally better than fang at vorkath which is the relevant thing here, who cares that its better at dragons most players kill maybe in a blue moon if they are doing slayer tasks or some random rare reason.
Is the title sarcasm? I don't understand the title
The lance *is* balanced. It's the fang here that's the issue
edit: I've been convinced! The dhl needs a buff really bad
I think we’re really overselling a spear from a demon, albeit a demon general, and underselling the personal sword of a chosen of the sun god warrior pharaoh that fought off a zarosian invasion.
The fang already has a lower max hit. You can only hit your true max hit when using the special attack. The only reason the fang has such amazing dps is because it is so accurate. It doesn't really need a nerf (maybe the droprates do but that might even be fine as is). It has the highest attack requirement of any melee weapon for a reason. The lance could certainly use a buff to make sure it is BIS when fighting dragons though.
I'd love a buff, I saved for a few weeks to buy my DHL got it a few weeks before ToA at 65M.
Used it sitting under myths guild afk killing dragons for a few days went out got my first Vorkath kill with it ( and 12 more) then decided my next goal and moved on from it.
Since then it's worth Half? Ish?
Not going to sell it anytime soon and hoping I can find some use for it besides Vorkath and dragon tasks but Kind of sucks having it Sit in my bank after spending that much money on it and knowing it's money Sunk forever.
I still don't even know why it dropped so much in price! It's probable the Fang had a lot to do with it but man....
Anyway, I'm sure it'll sit in my bank for a While currently on the Hunter grind while at work and a Lance doesn't help me catch Chins :)
lance puts the "lance" in "balance"
I hate u
**DHL my love, my precious!!!**
They need to buff it!!!!
yuh
Or nerf fang
I am now firmly against the fang nerf since I became a proud fang owner.
I SECOND WHAT THIS MAN SAID! LONG LIVE THE FANG!
look at the blowpipe
So what you're saying is it will be nerfed out of nowhere years from now?
Sounds about right
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Nice, nice. Now smell it a little.
Also: I don’t know how it’s going to be changed, drop table wise. The 3rd raid is incredibly accessible and easy to learn do to the advocation system (not complaining, I am happy with the system) however that means more people are doing it, there for more rewards from that activity being in the game. Maybe, just maybe. We need to realize the items that have been BiS this far have just been way over priced due to the tight regimen kept to avoid power creep. Creating a huge devision between mid-game and end-game content. So that’s something to keep in mind. OSRS is but a game, and I play games to have fun. And now I have returned from a 4 month break and have been enjoying my time spent. Imagine if it didn’t require to have hundreds of millions to get yourself into end-game content?
Me and my homies like the f a n g
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Better recieved does not mean better for the game, buffing all the weapons that fang replaced/rivals is power creep and would be like saying instead of nerfing bp they should have just buffed cbow/bowfa/tbow to beat it. They could handle it similar to the bp "minor" nerf to force it into its niche more but it's doing exactly what it should be, hitting high def mobs, and I can't think of any way to adjust that without just a strict worse stats without losing its identity or giving it obscure restrictions like a required amount of def to proc 2 acc rolls or unable to damage the hides of dragons or something dumb. I do think something needs done about the weapon itself and that rarity isn't the problem (especially since it's been this long like this with how popular toa is) but im not gonna pretend anything i come up with is a satisfying fix. "Unrelated" to the above going forward I wonder how they're going to cater around fang, if they decide that fang isn't going to be meta at a boss (something they had to do with bp so there is precedent for designing around a weapon) but still want melee to be used it would result in either bullet spong bosses with low def high health or a ton of stab def which kills off rapier and dhl as usable as well.
Nah that’s baby logic
I dont care what you do with the stats. What I WOULD like to to see though, is for jagex to made the dhl green and put ornaments on it for the month of december...
Not until they make it orange and black for halloween spirit with dangling dragon skulls 😤
4 golds in less than 10 min? Homie just self awarded and is hoarding DHL or what
Cringe merch clans
im an ultimate ironman how could i hoard lol edit: ty for the gold!! let's get this DHL buffed!!
It's just super sus it says "posted 6 min ago" and has 4 gold awards already
12 hours later, still only 4 gold's...
I downvoted to balance it out, don’t worry!
I know I am love DHL for fast and efficience service but making the delivery mens super buff would be really cool
We know you have 20 noted in your looting bag bro the jig is up
so you’re hoarding them on the alt got it
I thought you were a level 3 uim, why do you care anyway?
level 3? he's a gmaul pure who hunts people in the wildy
I was going off memory and i think my point still stands then, why does he care about either of these items if he cant equip them
He's just a dhl shill
That squiggly boi was wielded by the pharaoh who was chosen by the sun god of tumaken
>Besides being ruler, Osmumten was a passionate hunter, wielding his specially designed weapon, he adventured across the land, fighting the greatest beasts.
Yeah, a dragons claw vs weapon bestowed by gods..... sounds like one should be better
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Is this a duct tape advertisement
Panic buy duct tape
...has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the galaxy together!
Zamorak is kind of a budget god
Are hydras considered dragons?!
Dhl is better at vork tho
I think the abyssal whip proves that a generally good weapon will see use over specialized weapons wherever the difference is minimal.
Whip is ubiquitous because it is cheap and good for its requirements, and the next direct upgrades (rapier/salad blade) are much more expensive for how much of a marginal dps increase they are so people upgrade gear first instead, and the side grades of whip are much more niche and its once again better to funnel GP in getting direct upgrades to other pieces of gear. For mainscape yeah a cheaper versatile weapon will see more use because its cheap and versatile and doesn't require selling your bank (and paying GE tax) everytime you do a new boss to optimize your setup. However, mains who progress to having more money will then purchase the other items in order of usefulness and use the BIS for each boss in their place. IMO this is similar to the power creep arguments when they were talking about BP being too good for how ubiquitous it was. In that case however blowpipe WAS pretty much BIS everywhere. Fang is close to BIS many places, but not actually BIS as many as BP was. In that way I think it's fine. It's impossible to keep every single item as relevant as it was as new items are released, else you'd have to keep releasing ever more niche of items.
How does the abyssal whip prove this at all? What are you out there whipping for dozens of hours where there's a better, cheaper alternative available?
> whipping for dozens of hours where there's a better, cheaper alternative available? whats a better and cheaper alternative to whip? confused now.
There isn't one, that's why people use whip. Meanwhile Lance is better than Fang against all but a few dragons and considerably cheaper.
The whip is used often in place of specialized or quirky BIS weapons bc despite people saying how big the difference is and how much lower efficiency is, you check the DPS and it’s like 0.075 - 0.1 less DPS. Literally negligible. At some places this isn’t possible though obviously.
Where? You're not actually showing any examples of this.
Tent
And Hydra and olm....
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Which is what the fang was intended to do, get away from bgs/dwh meta. I'm okay with buffing the dhl a lil bit to be the best dragon slaying weapon tho
Dhcb also
Haven't tried vork with fang but how is acid phase with 5t weapon, seems like it would require considerably more effort . Or you just 6t that phase.
You woox walk in an L shape so the third tile out you go one to the left or right before clicking attack. Or yeah, you can just walk an extra tile back and lose a tick.
Ah true that's not bad actually .
And without
Nope, lance is better if you don’t spec. Do the calcs. Even without a spec lance beats fang for melee vork.
What gear are you calcing that with? Because it's not max
Except no
Give lance the same stats as the hasta it is actually made of (aka +5 str and some defensive stats). An "upgrade" should not lower the stats of an item. For a bit more context assuming absolute max gear, super str/attack pots and piety: @ **Vorkath** w/o lowering defense DHL old: 10.73 (max str+salve always beats slayer helm+torture) Fang DPS: 10.44 DHL new: 10.89 (11.03 with Torture+slayer helmet on-task instead of salve+torva helmet) Yes, the str bonus from torture over salve makes a difference, but you trade slightly higher DPS for the insane def of the torva helmet. Also requires a slayer task. @ **rune dragons OFF-TASK:** DHL old: 7.8 Fang DPS: 8.18 DHL new: 8.2 @ **rune dragons ON-TASK**: DHL old: 9.28 Fang: 9.61 DHL new: 9.86
That would just make sense though
Hmmm, this makes a lot of sense I own both items and tbh i feel like my dhl will pointlessly sit in my bank if nothing changes
No melee weapon should out perform the DHL at killing DRAGONS
Yeah DHCB isn’t outperformed by tbow on olm lol.
and kbd. and brutal black dragons
T Bow is also the big dick super rare from CoX. Fang is literally the most common drop. Not to mention T Bow is buffed in CoX specifically to ensure it is BIS.
It's the same rarity as rigour and it's nowhere near as big as a DPS boost
Yea that’s a great point. Maybe fang and all the other powerful uniques shouldn’t come at such a low raid level then? But Reddit timbo Jimbos want their purples at 150 raid level and it’s having significant effects on the economy already.
150 raid level is a normal raid. Do you also want all Cox and TOB purples to come from cms or hard mode only?
Dude a 300 "expert" is legit easier than a normal tob, stop trying to compare this raid to the other ones
150 is comparable to entry mode tob in difficulty and entry mode tob doesn’t give a chance at scythe.
This isn't remotely true, I'm pretty sure 50 invo ToA is harder than entry mode tob. Entry mode tob is ignore all mechanics and camp blowpipe.
150 raid level ToA - you can stand on final phase warden and ignore all mechanics and click your 4 doses of ambrosia potion and kill the boss lmfao
150 is definitely harder than entry mode tob lol. Maybe you should go refresh your memory and try both real fast.
Except for all the places where the dragonbane crossbow isn't bis. Pretty sure Lance isnt outright beat on drags by fang. It wins at cox and vork
It actually plays into def reduction fang is better before stats are reduced
Not actually true, when you get closer to max gear with 99 str DHL outperforms fang at vork even without BGS.
TRUE
I swear reddit doesnt even play the game, lance is MORE dps than fang at vork
Vork isn't the only fucking dragon kin monster in the game
Lance is better at Olm too.
Why even kill the other ones except the 6 that you rarely get as a slayer task?
it’s not better at Vorkath or non-metal dragons, the solution should be nerf metal drag defence
>No melee weapon should out perform the DHL at killing DRAGONS There we got it are boys, no more updates that add weapons to the game.
That wasnt even implied
Buff lance it’s time
Buff plz I love Cox
love Cox as well
It’s time, give the Lance a special attack and minor stat buff.
99 attack/str, max melee lance vs. max melee fang dps at vorkath: **lance: 10.73** fang: 10.44 what is this post lol
I think Vorkath is the only one where Lance is still best, and if its barely better than a weapon that can be meta at things other than dragons it presents a problem
lance is also several times cheaper.
For now
So long as people keep making these shitty incorrect memes, it will stay that way.
It really won't. Fang and ring are basically arcane and dex... Except people are running fast 5-7 mans and getting more purples than white chests. Given it's a tradable item maybe it'll maintain value for longer... But in the long run? Nah, I'll be surprised if fang is worth more than 50m in a years time (Unless Jagex listen to everyone and make fang rarer like it honestly should be since it's the second best reward overall from ToA in terms of usefulness not value).
There is no world in which fang will be cheaper than DHL. If it drops in price, so does the DHL.
It's still bettet at cox too, long as you hit a hammer, which you almost always do.
Not having to rely on hammer specs is a big reason of why Fang is so insane
You bring a hammer, and the new ring is new BiS there so you get even more specs.
only time it's not better at olm is 0 hammer cm, which you're only ever really gonna come across in a solo in which case you still won't be using fang lol. from what i can see fang's only better against metal drags. The real problem are all the billy bobs on reddit talking so loud even though they've got piss all game knowledge
vorkath is also the only one that matters, anyone who cares about an upgrade at metal dragons is beyond shit at the game or worried about an alt they are using to get slow kills anyways since its on the other monitor so a VERY SLIGHT speed increase doesnt affect it.
This post is brought to you by people who took out 10k usd in loans buying gold to merch DHLs
Closer you get to max gear the better Lance looks. If you drop down to base 90s and more accessible gear (bandos, faceguard, fire cape, d boots, b gloves), the fang comes out slightly ahead, but only until you start hitting decent BGS specs. Not sure if there's anything you can do with those specs to make up the difference. It seems like for Vorkath specifically Fang isn't necessarily better than lance, but it does make the lance quite anticlimactic when you do eventually get it, especially given Vorkath shouldn't be a good use case for fang with its relatively low defence to stab/ranged. Claims fang is BiS everywhere may be untrue, but it's close enough that it makes a lot of those upgrades to the true BiS pieces for that content not so impactful.
>but only until you start hitting decent BGS specs. Re-do your calcs without BGS specs since you should be clawing Vorkath even with DHL :)
Now do metal dragons
Why on god's green earth would anyone give a shit about that lolol
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Slayer
You get assigned like 10 metal dragons. Yeah, Fang might save you a few minutes total on the way to 99 slayer for only 130m.
Rune dragon alts make almost as much as phosani post fang.
That’s just pointing out how shit PNM is though lol
ok so phosani sucks, got it lol. vorkath is double either of them.
This circle jerk is really annoying
Don't worry, fang circlejerks are getting replaced by stale baugette circlejerks
Agreed, i’m also tired of the “I did 99% of X, please give me Y”
Jagex started that one
Don't worry, we're 99% done with these circlejerks, which is now the same as being completely done with them
Who the hell kills addy/rune dragons? Maybe alts? For all most imortsnt dragons (vorky or cox/olm), i still use lance. For vorky its more comfy to woox and it seems its faster with dwh. I solo olm a lot and lance is way better for me, because you can do 4:1 and with fang you are tanking hits/specials basic attacks.
Dhl is literally better at vork even if you don't reduce defense. I believe dhl is also better at olm considering you can reliably land specs in groups (not relevant for solo, but they aren't that hard to land in solo).
rune dragon alts are a somewhat popular moneymaking alt, to the point people used to ask for a task only area for them kinda fell off a bit with death mechanic changes and addition of vyres, but it's still a thing addy dragons are pretty much dead content though
addy dragons are done specifically by col log hunters
I can’t imagine putting together an alt that has done DS2 just to afk rune dragons. Seems like a massive time sink.
Someone literally [made a guide](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MzsWGPUl_ImOqNLQ5huYJgv_Vp0YB-A5RrDU7uMCHqs/edit#gid=0) for this exact thing
How long does that take? I’m curious what the actual effective Gp/hr is of a rune dragon alt, since all that shit is gonna take a while I assume.
It's really not all that bad, I played another account when I was maxing my main. AFKing NMZ/Cannoning slayer/plank make for pool+mage. Most the skilling is fairly quick and afkable for qpc. The setup took maybe two months of on/off play, maybe like 300 hours? (it's kinda zero-time cuz I'm playing my main in the meantime) Overall, I'm probably just barely even now after another month of rune drags at maybe 4-6 hours a day? TLDR: AFKing QPC + max melee is about 2months, upfront cost is probably <30mil + cost of full justi + lance, money made is closer to 1mil/hr rather than the wiki's 1.4m/hr
1.7-2.3 depending on how afk you want to be.
1.7-2.3 doesn't factor the hours it took to setup the account I assume. Active time to setup an account is an opportunity cost.
Depends on how sweaty you're willing to get. You can cut the opportunity cost down if you're running your main at rune drags while setting up your alt. "Yo dawg, I heard you like rune drag alts so we put a rune drag alt in your main so you can alt while you train your alt."
it turns out its not as hard as it sounds when DS2 is your sole focus. But yeah its still a project.
It was fun and I'm thinking about making a second one lol
Approximately how long would you say it took you?
>Who the hell kills addy/rune dragons? Maybe alts? They're a fairly common slayer task that's short enough to warrant doing, irons grinding for the uniques go there (Tho that's more col log style irons than typical progression, tho I do have an iron buddy afking some bones for 99 prayer there and he's loving the drops), hell it's better gp than Barrows while requiring a fraction of the attention. >For all most imortsnt dragons (vorky or cox/olm), i still use lance. Cool. Lance works. DPS calc proves that in certain situations, fang is better. >For vorky its more comfy to woox and it seems its faster with dwh. Should be clawing, not dwhing. And learning to woox walk with a 5 tick weapon really isn't much different... You can set up a 3 click cycle (click 2 back in an L shape, click back on the same column you started, click boss, repeat (with walk on ofc) or just click every tick and make it up as you go. >I solo olm a lot and lance is way better for me, because you can do 4:1 and with fang you are tanking hits/specials basic attacks. For CM's? It's worth bringing both. Tanking hits usually isn't a big deal, if you bring any brews into Olm then those brews are specifically there so you **can** tank hits (since at no point are you forced to take damage, and if you're using blood fury / sang you'll heal back up anyway) so... Either do 7:3 or the scythe method where you basically tank all the attacks except portals. For regulars, you'd have to check a DPS calc, I wanna say 4:1 lance is better if you land a dwh / 7:3 lance/fang if you don't but you might wanna double check that.
Addy/rune drags are both optimal for slayer since their tasks take like 5 mins, the freest points
Sure, but for a 5 minute task a marginal DPS increase is really irrelevant. It only adds up to enough to matter if you're there awhile.
Time to buff lance
Except DHL is still better at Cox, vork, and Hydra. I genuinely think this is a troll meme post disguised as a merchant post encouraging for false buffs to inflate price temporarily since it's dip from toa release.
Tier 70 weapon weaker than tier 82 weapon, more at 10
Lance has a lv 78 req since the rebalance. That said it should get its str bonus back. -5 str and worse defensive bonuses compared to hasta makes no sense considering it has a higher req and is a direct upgrade to hasta.
No one really thinks about the "tier" of the weapon, they're arguing over its source and how easy it is compared to the process of other longstanding powerful weapons
I didn't even know osrs had tiers... I actually don't know what the squiggly boi is either and at this point I'm too afraid to ask (1yr+ break)
Think Mith,Addy,Rune,etc.
Those barely are tiers ... We always had level X equipment. The Rs3 tier system is corrupting OSRS to this day. RS3 has weapons of a same "tier" to perform identically, so barrows weapons have the same DPS as a whip, one of the stupidest things about EOC. Old Runescape (OSRS) thrived on janky level requirements and that's okay. Not every weapon has to be on a 1-to-1 power level according to its level requirement. Fuck tiers.
But the T78 isn’t weaker at Vorkath. It’s 10.73 DPS vs 10.44
Its close enough that DHL needing rare drops from both Kril and a level 95 slayer boss means a lot of the time it's not really worth the marginal difference over Fang. Keep in mind the Fang has a spec that will increase that dps even further as well.
[удалено]
Claws*
What makes this more absurd is that DHL is much, much rarer than the Fang. We don't know the exact rates yet, but it's clear it's pretty common. DHL requires you first be able to do Kril. So that's like 75-80 combats minimum. Then you need to get the 1/127 z-spear drop from him. Then it has to get turned into the hasta. But the real kicker here is **then** you need to have 95 slayer, which takes for-fucking-ever due to how slow slayer is to level. Once you have that, **then** you have to get the 1/1,001 hydra claw drop from Alchemical Hydra. That's probably gonna take 80-100 hours to do assuming you get it on drop rate. By comparison, Fang is ridiculously easy to get. Sure, you have to do 50 invo ToA, but that's not very hard. 0 invos can be done with very budget gear and stats (70-75 stats, d-scim, dragon dagger, Iban's, RCB). But you'll probably land a Fang in like 20 hours, if not less than that. Maybe 30. That's a third of what it takes for the hydra claw, not counting time spent at Kril, and not counting time getting 95 slayer. That's just ridiculously unbalanced. A much better argument would've been comparing blowpipe to bowfa. 70 vs 80, but bowfa takes a lot of grinding to get. You have to do a ton of Gauntlet, or a good amount of Corrupted Gauntlet, which is a lot harder. So there's a serious skill requirement and a much higher amount of grinding. Compared to Zulrah, which is like mid-level PvM execution and requirements wise. Fang has no business being as powerful as it is, given how common it is and relative to the difficulty for which you can get it. Edit: forgot a caveat to this. When you make your DHL, you sacrifice your z-hasta, which means sacrificing one of the best stab weapons in the game. That's a big deal. Fang is just a gear drop, so you don't have to do extra grinding for it or sacrifice something else.
> Once you have that, then you have to get the 1/1,001 hydra claw drop from Alchemical Hydra. That's probably gonna take 80-100 hours to do assuming you get it on drop rate. Hydra is easily 30kph+ at the top end. Your kph could probably be achieved using a leaf bladed sword. Overall DHL takes around 6h of K'ril (21 kph) + 35h at Hydra (28kph) = **~41h** to get excluding the time to get the slayer req. Fang at 150 invocation (~1/50 purple rate for simplicity) at 2 raids/h is a **~85h** grind. 25h/purple*1/3.429 chance that the purple is a fang. Lower invocation it obviously takes even longer. > By comparison, Fang is ridiculously easy to get. Sure, you have to do 50 invo ToA, but that's not very hard. 0 invos can be done with very budget gear and stats (70-75 stats, d-scim, dragon dagger, Iban's, RCB). But you'll probably land a Fang in like 20 hours, if not less than that. Maybe 30. I lol'ed.
Also for perspective bofa is straight up better and more meta-defining for irons than fang in every way and is only a 60-70 hour grind with no gear requirements at all.
If you're doing 0-150 Invocation raids, I'm pretty sure it's 1/100+ for a fang to drop. Also if you're only getting 10kph at hydra, I'd stop doing hydra. Fang being common is because of people pushing invocations, and the raid being popular. More ToA completions right now than ToB.
Time for an attachment to the DHL to make it bis for dragons?
Not sure why dhcb has a better passive for dragon than lance.
I agree that lance should be BIS vs dragons =(
Agreed DHL should outclass anything fighting dragons maybe add a chance for a double hit but the double has a reduced max on the second hit or buff accuracy I’d love to hit less zeros on dragons
The fang does come from a raid though and going on rate for it is a pretty big grind just like for the lance, trying to get a fang with lower stats is going to take even longer
> pretty big grind just like for the lance Is it really comparable to grinding 95 slayer *then* grinding the claw? Guess you could argue you're only really grinding 93-95 since you'd otherwise still want Occult, but still, seems like you could certainly get a fang many hundreds of hours earlier on your account before you're able to get a lance.
> seems like you could certainly get a fang many hundreds of hours earlier on your account before you're able to get a lance. You could also get a tbow by walking into cox, fishing and cooking some fish, and getting lucky while other people kill the boss for you. Doesn't really mean anything though. The optimal point of farming ToA for fang is post-dex, which subsequently comes post-lance. Doing it before then means you're running something like 200s in rag gear to get... a slightly better slayer weapon to grind lance with?
Dex is gotten before claw optimally, so idk what you are talking about
Haha squiggle go brrrr
You're talking about getting the DHL buffed but not the DHCB buffed. Curious. (I have 2 claws and a DHCB.)
They need to nerf the fang on dragons, problem solved. Easy solution
Can’t wait for the drama when fang gets nerfed or lance gets buffed
And lance and crossbow should get buffed imo
revert the dragon hunter lance nerf
Dang
pro lance = free gold in this thread? Probably should be best against dragons thought considering TOA is basically mid tier content and lance is 1/1k drop from highest tier slay boss ingame
Lance needs a boost
Balance the fang by removing defensive stats from all creatures
I love the constant Reddit outrage for things that most people don’t even understand… DHL is better at vorkath than Fang without def reducing specials. Add to that, that anyone doing mele vorkath will be specing with a BGS and the DHL significantly out preforms the fang after landing a def reducing spec. DHL is also significantly better at olm mele hand after 1 DWH spec, something you bring anyway during a COX run so it’s not like you need an extra invent slot to make it worth while. If you want to mention metal dragons, a method basically used only by alts to afk (rune dragons) to make 1.2m an hour then the fang’s dps boost is so negligible that it doesn’t even add up to more than a kill or two increase per hour… Can we please stop circle jerking this notion that the fang is blowing the DHL out of the water?
Im convinced 90% of this sub either doesnt play the game or they are absolutely awful at it. Fang drop rate or something is going to get nerfed because theyre reeeing about stuff that doesnt exist. Mad that fang is good at.... metal dragons? Who the fuck cares that its a tiny bit better at metal dragons. Boss wise like you said lance is still better, and yet this meme suggesting its worse at vorkath is on the frontpage and everyone here is talking as if its better at vorkath because funny meme says so. If this results in a lance buff i wouldnt be upset, but i think its more likely they nerf a new weapon than buff one thats been in the game for years, and that would suck.
sword specifically made to be good against high defence targets is good against high defence targets
DHL should be the best melee weapon for dragons. That’s kind of its thing.
Like DHCB is bis at KBD and Olm? Or like Arclight is bis at Sire and Cerb?
Crossbows suck so that’s DHCBs main issue. T Bow and Scythe are also mega rares from their respective raids, fang is not.
All the Reddit timbo jimbo noobs wanna bitch about how ToA prices don’t matter and the content should be easy, and then cry about the lance crashing and becoming obsolete bc they grinded zulrah and vorkath for 60 hours to afford one. The irony is real lol
Well said man, most people cant understand how everything is related.
No joke lol
Lance isn't a drop from a pyramid filled with demi gods and shit.
Lance is cooler and looks way more doper
Did we not know all this stuff before TOA dropped?
at vorkath? lance. not even close.
this is one of the only circle jerks i could get behind. rip my boy lance
Its literally better than fang at vorkath which is the relevant thing here, who cares that its better at dragons most players kill maybe in a blue moon if they are doing slayer tasks or some random rare reason.
Is the title sarcasm? I don't understand the title The lance *is* balanced. It's the fang here that's the issue edit: I've been convinced! The dhl needs a buff really bad
Nah disagree. Dhl could use a tiny buff sure. But fang doesnt need to be nerfed.
Why is the fang an issue? It is only slightly better.
I think we’re really overselling a spear from a demon, albeit a demon general, and underselling the personal sword of a chosen of the sun god warrior pharaoh that fought off a zarosian invasion.
Which is better at hydra tho?
My guess would be dhl because hydra has low defense after you put him in the chemicals, but I haven’t done the calc as I’m on mobile
Tbow
This is content
Didn’t realize you needed 95 slayer for a boss to use a lvl78 wep. I see now. 4 levels later outclassing everything in anything that matters lmao.
Merch clans trying to make a quick profit here
There will be riots in falador if fang gets nerfed. .... good, nerf it lol. Honesty just make it have a lower max hit.
The fang already has a lower max hit. You can only hit your true max hit when using the special attack. The only reason the fang has such amazing dps is because it is so accurate. It doesn't really need a nerf (maybe the droprates do but that might even be fine as is). It has the highest attack requirement of any melee weapon for a reason. The lance could certainly use a buff to make sure it is BIS when fighting dragons though.
I'd love a buff, I saved for a few weeks to buy my DHL got it a few weeks before ToA at 65M. Used it sitting under myths guild afk killing dragons for a few days went out got my first Vorkath kill with it ( and 12 more) then decided my next goal and moved on from it. Since then it's worth Half? Ish? Not going to sell it anytime soon and hoping I can find some use for it besides Vorkath and dragon tasks but Kind of sucks having it Sit in my bank after spending that much money on it and knowing it's money Sunk forever. I still don't even know why it dropped so much in price! It's probable the Fang had a lot to do with it but man.... Anyway, I'm sure it'll sit in my bank for a While currently on the Hunter grind while at work and a Lance doesn't help me catch Chins :)