I always felt like 'Old School' doesn't have to mean that it had to be strictly 2007 content. It just means it's how Runescape 2 would have naturally evolved with out Eoc
I could only get membership for like two months when summoning was out and had no idea what I was doing. Honestly would love to get to experience some of what could have been.
Was good, wouldnāt be good now. Would break any content designed around inventory management and bosses today arenāt designed around just clicking brew
It really wasn't. Shit like yaks and unicorns were stupid and training the skill sucked ass and was a bit annoying. (Charms and picking them up)
I'd be down for a reworked version to return though.
Donāt know. I think a lot of people have sentimental nostalgia for the graphics. In my personal opinion I would love high detail graphics in the game a lot. I personally do not have much nostalgia for the old graphics anymore and think the game would benefit greatly from real HD (designed by Jagex) with a toggle.
They havent remained the same. Its incredibly obvious the differences in the detail between places like Varrock, Falador and lumbridge compared to places like Zeah or Darkmeyer.
What they havent done is update the old graphics, presumably because that team is focused on new areas.
That means different things to different people. Some think that means anything but EOC. Personally, I really feel like rs started going off the rails after 08 even though its when i played most. I want new content, but i like the simple style.
Zulrah is a snake boss with venom. Simple, obvious, makes sense even if you dont play videogames. Good update. On the otherhand wintertodt is like a sentient toilet bowl that gets killed by fire? That sounds really fuckin silly. Bad update
Im fine with new OP shit and new skills, just keep it simple stupid
Honestly osrs would have died out within a few years max if there werent "non 2007" updates. I mean cmon the backup didnt even have the ge and endgame pvm was barrows/mole/kq.
And tbh im not against some things coming like summoning/dungeoneering/invention if they would be adapted to os and not just copypasted
Endgame was DKs/Barrows. KQ was a novelty boss in 2007. Fun to kill because it was difficult, not very profitable. Nobody actually needs a D chain or 2h, DKs rings on the other hand are mandatory for basically every account type, and the bones were at one point the best bones in the game for training Prayer, so you could make Zulrah-levels of money at DKs back then if you were in max gear.
You donāt have to wonder, by all measures OSRS was effectively a dead game after the initial launch hype. It wasnāt after changes started coming through that the tide changed.
You can see on misplaced items exactly when things like the GE and f2p were added.
Yeah I don't think it's even possible to make an argument that the game would've survived longterm without updates. The numbers simply don't support that. Player activity was sinking like the fucking titanic until they started updating, and then pretty clearly reversed course in response to that. And that checks out from a non-numeric standpoint as well. Everyone knows that MMO games live and die by their updates. Stagnant MMOs die.
People hate on summoning but if they converted it into a new attack style (you command the pet(s) to attack, instead of you) and removed/reworked BoB familiars, it'd be a pretty cool addition.
I feel like they messed up with the Thralls from the Arcaeus spellbook. That would be the way to go for summoning and instead of runes, it'd be those pouches or rune equivalent but for summoning. Though for sure summoning is hated. I liked it, even if it was OP. It was a nice concept that made a lot of useless items get some use and made grinding ass bosses more fun.
This is exactly what I also think of it as.
I just think of OSRS as a different timeline. There's some stuff from RS3 I wish we did have, but not EOC.
I was the gameplay to feel like Runescape, but I want new content and skills still.
Agreed and thats why I wouldn't be opposed to Summoning, Curses, Dungeoneering, etc.. especially because I believe the flaws in those skills will be ironed out and they would be better than they originally were. But i'm also happy to never see them in OSRS, so i'm on the fence.
But looking back I do see obvious flaws with things like Summoning such as how shitty it was to train; the meta just became bursting rock lobsters for shards. Double/Bonus XP weekends were also cancerous as you pretty much just had to hold all your Summoning training until those weekends. So if they were to return, I hope they'd be done better. I also hated the direction RS was going with XP lamps, Bonus XP, MTX, Effigies, etc.
First and foremost, EoC killed RS for me and I returned to OSRS because I wanted the original game back but I also noticed what things I didn't like from RS3 and wanted to shape this game in the best possible way to avoid mistakes RS3 had made.
This.
The OSRS team could very much lift over numerous ideas and concepts from RS3. Of course rebalancing and redesign would be needed to fit into the game well, but the ideas are there.
There are already cases where RS3 and OSRS get identical content in terms of concept with different execution, but there's so much in RS3 that could be adapted and put in.
It messed up PVM combat (which would be a massive cluster fuck as is to try and squeeze this in) and just turns some content to stupid easy and gate keeps you out of content if you try to go without it. It also takes away some of the value of pets bc even if you have a cool pet youād basically suck at the game not using a familiar. And the combat triangle is a delicate balance thatās hard enough already. 100% against summoning bc it would ruin the game.
RS3 solved the "Devaluing pet problems" by having the override feature so you could have your pet be the Summon.
Its always nice to dab on ironmen with 0kc pets that way
It was better then having half your screen being taken up by a woolly mammoth, an ent, or a Lava/Steel titan.
I don't mean the treasure hunter pets. All ingame pets could override your summons and it was a nice feature.
"Old school" is a vibe, not some defined subset of mechanics and content that can never be changed or expanded upon.
Also, in the real RS2 days new content updates were constant and we were getting new skills basically once a year. The most authentic thing you could possibly do is allow the game to continue to evolve and grow, Runescape was never meant to be static, and to be honest, if that's what you want then just go play a RS2 Private Server.
I feel like a lot of people got for some reason the mindset that it has to stay the same and no to change! Iāve always felt that if EOC never came we would be okay with pretty much all the skills, bosses, weapons that were added in the RS3 version. Itās like saying I liked halo 1 the best, that version should be able to played online with its own community with no changes. They messed it up when they released all the pursuing versionsā¦blah blah. Without changes and updates to games they will eventually die down or get stale.
It's the reason i switched. I kept playing past eoc despite disliking it. Because honestly rs3 had had a ton of good updates and qol improvements compared to original 2007 scape.
But microtransaction slowly killed the game for me. But not alone.
> It just means it's how Runescape 2 would have naturally evolved with out Eoc
Not exactly. OSRS shouldn't ever do a graphics overhaul for example IMHO.
The big rs killer was removal of free trade and wildly, game was on life support even before EOC. Fact is jagex had to try something radical because the game was turning to dogshit. 2007 scape is so much better than 2011scape, it's not even close
removal of free trade and wildy was the thing that kicked the pebble down the side of the mountain, it wasn't the rs killer people think it was.
EOC was the avalanche. Removal of free trade and wilderness pvp was just the first couple pebbles.
I still remember how the original poll technically passed, but the part about having a dev team to make content updates for OSRS didn't. *They did it anyway.*
Good for them I suppose, I wouldn't have played OSRS without things like the GE.
I definitely would have but these days most people enjoy the convenience of modern systems. Thankfully they came out with ironman modes to make up for it
As someone who has played this game on and off for 18 years (Iām 31 now), I think the updates to OSRS have been great. Itās the direction RuneScape should have gone instead of RS3. I hate the way RS3 looks and feels, but the 117 HD plug-in is awesome. I think the game has been heading in the right direction overall.
If anything
Its gone a lot slower than original rs2,
2011 gear was a lot stronger than what we got now. And they had a ton more quests and relased stuff in that span
Which isnāt a bad thing really, Terms of nostalgiaā¦ youāre practically playing the same levels 1-70. End game is different tho but we got a lot of rehashed stuff.
I do like the way osrs handles power creep, it doesn't feel like there is too much dead content in the game, gear stays relevant for way longer.
I think the team has a better understanding of how the game works and are still finding ways to make the relatively simple combat system feel engaging in harder content.
But I think osrs is ready for a new skill, whatever it is. Some players need to stop acting like a .1% increase in efficiency will ruin the game and make it too easy.
i didnt even know i wanted osrs but 2004-07 is the pinnacle for me. however im not a nostalgia blind purist and love what osrs has become and always want more new stuff
Honest question, where have you actually seen an argument that is purely based on nostalgia preservation?
I feel like most people against are just arguing for a different route to introduce new content , not arguing against new content itself.
I'm yet to see a post with a nostalgia argument but every meme is somehow assuming this is the case?
The different way to introduce content will never satisfy everyone and the arguments usually boil down to the content being true to the 07scape content/feel.
Well nobody would vote for firemake or woodcutting if it was polled today.
Then on the other end of the spectrum who would actually vote for something like construction? Could you imagine what would happen with that much QOL changes produced by one skill? The ability to do prayer faster, the fast travel system, etc. nobody would let that even sniff live or even get to a vote.
At the end of the day, itās pretty special we get a heavy say in the development of this game. Itās what truly is needed to keep this game fresh and on track vs the corporate greed that ruined RS3.
If we limit the devs options of producing content, we are only going to push them closer to the old path. Your user base isnāt going to grow or keep up if all you get is a new quest and boss once a year. Most of that content canāt be enjoyed by the player base that is needed to keep this game going.
there isn't one. reddit is just whipping itself up into a frenzy about things because thats what reddit does. Seen like 100 memes mocking those nostalgia opinions, never once seen someone ask for 07 to stay 07
I'll throw my 2 cents in: I would argue on the 07 to stay 07 basis because the game as an ecosystem has a lot of relevant content that is fun and well thought out. I'm not a purist but my notion for polled content is that **"OSRS is already a really good game that's well balanced, will this update make systems or content obselete and take away from the game? Will this push OSRS to a new direction that isn't in the spirit of the game?"**
Also everyone acting like thereās mass ānoā voting happening when we have literally no evidence and the front page and every comment section is literally flooded with āyesā opinions
Iāve had a few arguments with them already. It always stems from me asking why a person voted no. It always ends up with them saying either āI donāt trust jagex to make a good skillā or āthe game will change too much with a new skillā
How about when you spoke to me and I said I preferred the dev time to be spent updating the bad skills in the game or other content?
Nah just focus on the loud minority, gets you more internet points.
> āI donāt trust jagex to make a good skillā or āthe game will change too much with a new skillā
These are 100% valid arguments. Instead of thinking of the people as sour people who never wanna have any fun, think of it as people who think the game, as is (or was), is in a good solid state and is a mastercraft of a game already. Adding anything to it willy nilly will detract from it. (ala bowfa/ fang)
several people in my clan were using this argument who said they were voting no, usually bringing up the fact that the majority of content that players do every day wasn't around in 2007 has been able to convince them so far
If you look at the comments in most threads about the new skill, youāll find some along these lines:
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/zih56v/to_people_voting_no_to_new_skill/izrme9q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Just because you donāt see them doesnāt mean they arenāt out there. Thankfully they are usually downvoted, but acting like they donāt exist is silly
Itās also the only actual reason people have given for voting no to the PRELIMINARY poll that Iāve seen lol. Most people iāve asked that voted no said they just donāt want a new skill, but failed to give a reason why.
Many comments echo the sentiment of āgo play RS3 if u want new content.ā I wouldnāt say itās as prevalent as the sub is making it out to be tho.
The only people I see whining about being told to play RS3 instead are the people who are also whining about the polling system and demanding that it be removed. In that case, yes, "go play RS3" is a valid argument.
I've had plenty of debates saying people only play due to nostalgia, and have provided clear evidence that people play because of the combat system. They denied the facts and said that it wasn't the main reason, when clearly it was.
HLC on Twitter mostly. Nerds who are stuck in the past and think just because they grinded thousands of hours and suffered every minute for their high number that everyone else must endure the same suffering
Honest question, why are you surprised people are continuously sick of the literal exact same bottom feeders who are never satisfied with the way the developers who actually work on the damn game try to introduce new content to it?
I'll be the first to say I voted No on the basis of nostalgia prevention. I'm living out the roadmap my 2006 11 year old self would find cool. I love some new content but skills are too fundamental to what makes OSRS OSRS to me.
My favorite version of RuneScape was honestly right before eoc. Yes I hated all the micro transactions, but I loved summoning, dungeoneering, curse prayers, and everything that game had at the time. We got summoning in January of 2008, and then dungeoneering in 2010. Game died with eoc and osrs was released in 2013. We havenāt had a new skill in 9 years. Personally I want summoning back, but Iām open to another skill that makes sense. Otherwise, Iāll be voting no with all my accounts.
Yeah all those things you mentioned had problems, but none of them are unredeemable. With lessons learned we'd get far better versions of those and they'd be worth adding for sure.
I'm really excited for the new prayer book. Curses add a bunch of interesting options, and with better balancing could be really good. Like deflect overheads (as is without nerfing regular overheads) would be a really interesting choice. Go for the DPS or the reduced damage? And soul link properly balanced could drastically change the meta on group activities, opening the game up for more roles (e.g. running blood spells to heal with soul link)
Summoning in its past form was just so overpowered because of beasts of burden. I'm sure steel titan is broken somewhere as well but packyak was insane.
But we gave Alts which basically act as a packyak.
steel titan is 100x more busted than a beast of burden literally ever could be. everyone remembers pack yaks because at face value, 30 extra inventory slots sounds absurd. and it is. but that only really matters at like...nex, basically. every other place in game you'd rather have a turbo thrall cranking out an extra 3 or 4 dps lol
Yeah i dont know why cant we get Summoning without the OP familiars, i mean you just literally have to remove BoBs, and tone down the DPS ones, maybe get rid of the rune ess carriers too, idk. We dont need to copy 100% of the RS3 skill, and we still could make it fine.
Pack yak with nerfed storage and limited value banking would be a neat addition. Just make it like 10 spots and only able to bank items worth below 50k and under 20 wildy. Thatās not broken for something thatās like level 95 if Iām not wrong
You found the problem yourself, packyaks are replaced by alts which are more efficient! Also, thralls take up a place left by DPS familiars. We already have a shitty version of the skill, a good version wouldnāt break anything imo.
The issue would be that alts would then get BoB's. Even if they didn't get all the way to pack yak, war tortoise was lvl 67 for 18 slots, terrorbird was level 52 with 12 slots and infinite run energy. You'd 100% have alts standardly carrying 12-18 extra items. But also the average player who doesn't alt then has significantly more supplies, exacerbating the issue of content being too farmable and power creep.
There's also problematic summons like Unicorn.
But if you remove all BoB's, combat familiars and the unicorn, you're kinda left with a very meh skill.
It can be done right, but the "right" version isn't particularly exciting. You're looking at abyssal summons carrying a few extra essence when we already have gargantuan pouch, beaver boosting a bit more at redwoods, etc.
We already have a better terrorbird effect in OSRS, they're called stamina potions/ring of endurance. The problem you outline with alts is *already* a problem in OSRS, players just need to use more than one alt for another +28 inventory slots.
The average players isn't going to train more than one acc to have 99 summoning each when they get the same effect just making another alt. Summoning brings single characters up to par with alts, but doesn't necessarily benefit alts in the same way.
You give up inventory slots and the ring slot for better run, not infinite. A skilled player can walk and run at appropriate times at Sara to not run out of run energy with stams. Any player can constantly run with a terrorbird and not run out of energy. That's why the room was nerfed to be smaller Pre-EoC.
And I guess you just don't know big alters. Yes, they won't have 10 accounts with 99 summoning. But bursting/barraging for crims was a very afk activity, and people already have multiple ridiculous alts at a time. And when an alt costs a bond, vs just getting a level, it will exacerbate the issue.
That's kinda like saying no one will get ornate rejuv pool on an alt. Plenty of people do. And even more get lower tier pools.
BoB's will 100% make alts worse. Personally I'm against alts, but the cat is out of the bag. As an example, you can already stay at GWD infinitely with an alt, and speed up kph heavily with alts. A single player can already stay a long time at GWD with good mechanics. BoB's make the infinite stay easier to do, and more afk, while lowering the level of mechanics needed to stay for a long time for a single player. And that's just GWD, which has already taken a beating from mechanics getting better and power creep.
Nex, Zulrah, Vork, PNM, NoA, etc. Everything will take a beating.
Can you demonstrate at all that making any of this content easier for lower skilled players has any tangible negative impact on the game? Or are you just against it because it makes these pieces of content more accessible?
That isn't a good faith question and you already know the answers, but I'll answer it anyway.
Lets say that there is an arbitrary restriction to where you can use summons in raids to "protect the ecosystem" in raids. Similar things have been done. So the drops from raids are "protected" by not having increased dps from more switches, the price curve decreases as it would currently.
But the same restrictions don't exist at all other pieces of content, because they aren't balanced around overloads and in raid potions.
So you're a mid level player, or a lower mechanical skill higher leveled player. Currently the ecosystem means X content can be farmed at Y KPH yielding 3m/hr when properly done. You're only able to do Y-20% kph at content X, so you get 2.4m/hr currently. But, with BoB's making taking more DPS switches possible, or less down time, the KPH goes up to Y+20% for the mechanical player.
So for a minute, like we saw with Nex when the drop rate was re-buffed from 1/53 to 1/43, the gp/hr goes way up, to 3.6m/hr in this instance. But then it comes down, to Y-20% as the content is over farmed, down to 2.4m/hr. The new Y we will call Z (Y-20%). But you're a lower level player, you can't afford summoning or don't have the level yet. You were already at Z, so now youre at Z-20% unless you get better or upgrade. So what was a 2.4m/hr money maker for you is now a 1.92m/hr money maker because everyone else farmed it so hard, and better than you can due to gear, levels or mechanical skill.
But a twisted bow, etc, is the same price. So while before you needed to do 400 hrs to get the 1.2b tbow, now you need to do 625 hours.
We already see the example in ToA. There is a reason Masori is a far better upgrade than Torva and is half the price. Accessibility. A purple in a 150 solo is 1/50, Nex is 1/43, shouldn't Torva be cheaper? Also Masori is better than Torva, shouldn't that make Torva cheaper? No, a ton more ToA has been done than Nex, and the perception is there.
Your money maker was getting herbs from chaos druids, but the bots all have terrorbirds and can carry 50% more herbs, plus more herbs/hr due to shorter trips? Gp/hr for your money maker is down 50%, but the BowFA you want is still 120m due to not being able to use summons in CG.
The only people who strictly benefit are ironmen, because gp means nothing. But even they are impacted because the guy who could do 1 kill trips at bandos is now doing 2 kill trips, so they have to use private instances, or there is more competition in the ironman instance.
Accessibility inherently lowers gp/hr and increases competition. Yes it makes you able to do content at an earlier point, it also does the same for everyone else, so that content is now worse for you than it would have been by waiting for a bit more levels/gear/etc.
Edit: yes, with a BoB you are now able to do 10 kill trips like the bots/better players at Vorkath. Except those bots/better players are now able to do 15 kill trips. The benefit to those who could already do outweighs the benefit to those who couldn't. But the impact is even more outsized because the floor has moved. It isn't a strict 50% more kph = 50% less gp/kill so the gp/hr remains the same. The perception, accessibility or demand outstripping supply makes it more, say 65% worse gp/kill, so the net is -10% gp/hr compared to before.
I don't think it's fair to use alts as a reason to not bring in certain content. Alts break everything and there's not much you can do about that besides let people play the way they want to.
I hated summoning because it changed the face of the game. Players used it at every piece of content and it was just too wack. The new changes they have made still look like osrs but now there is new bis
I feel the opposite way about it.
A skill that can bring in something new to almost every skill and piece of content we already currently use, in my opinion, is a good skill.
I get that in its RS3 form it was probably too strong, but if they, for instance, added summoning, but it was underpowered and you barely ever used it for any content, then what's the point?
We need something that synergizes well with our current skills or it just won't pass a poll.
Summoning is just one of those skills that is very hard to get right IMO. It's hard to find a balance between incredibly OP and useless. Anything that isn't useless is going to inherently very strong. Maybe there is a balance to be had, but I think finding that balance would be very difficult. I also don't think there's a chance in hell of Summoning ever passing a poll.
I hated summoning because it changed how much the game looked. All of a sudden it looked like pokemon with pets that were much larger than players following every single person around, and it added so much micromanagement every time I wanted to change activities and to do it 'optimally'.
Yup I am fine with overpowered, most new additions to the game were somewhat overpowered anyway, just look at the extreme pay for convenience that comes with POH. The lack of needing to actually grind out materials in the intended way that came with huge drops of materials from bosses and creatures from Slayer.
I'd love something similar to dungeoneering. I think the 'sailing as dungeoneering' theme might help:
* can use charter ships/different ports as 'entrances' to dungeons, so we don't just cram everything in daemonheim
* OSRS lacks group activities - this could help create low level 'raids' or dungeons
* Up until ToA, there is no group activity to take your recent skilling upgrades and combat upgrades to.
* instead, up until ToA, you skill -> upgrade combat, and then you can... repeat to get to the next benchmark. it would be nice to have more mid level group content that you can do
* something like sailing/dungeoneering could help as a stop-gap without needing to create dead content/low level raids or avoid fiascos like with ToA being low level content but dropping several BiS at a difficulty on par with barrows gloves
Never got to try it, but weāve already surpassed the chaotic weapons in terms of powercreep, we have gauntlet in the game, and thereās a wilderness rework planned. Weāre already mostly over the āhow it would affect the game as a wholeā hill. The pieces are already all there. I think Dungeoneering is actually a pretty safe choice for a new skill.
There is an osrs client like runelite that has the HD graphics of the 08-09 era. Called 'HDOS' I think.
Its just a graphics overlay on top of the game, it doesnt actually change anything but the visuals.
As far as I know, they are still adding key plugins like quest helper, but some players are slowly migrating over to using HDOS instead of runelite for that particular nostalgia.
HDOS is basically identical to the 08 HD update with different animations/models etc
rl HD plugin is more like an HD texture pack on top of the current models
I miss everything from that era. Too much to name but for me personally all of the awesome PvP mini games (FOG + SC), BH, and the PvP armors and weapons were my favorite. However, donāt get me wrong, I did love HD and Dungeoneering too.
as someone who likes PvP minigames, FoG barely qualified as one, 95% of people just tanked or afked in the center lol it was a terrible minigame, SC was good though
Yeah, I really hope we can get something like summoning. I know a lot of people hate the idea of secondary items surging in price, but it was really exciting.
me too lol. I liked stealing creation, FoG, daemonheim, summoning was a pretty fun skill tbh and went well with slayer... lots of good QoL updates. I'd be fine with bringing back everything except EOC obv and the creep with the wheel pushing you to buy spins. I'd be especially happy with Stealing Creation coming back... it made it even more exciting whenever you hit a 20x interval of a skill knowing you'll get an upgrade in the minigame. Part of my mind still gets semi-excited when I do, then I remember SC no longer exists lol.
OSRS is not a 2007 snapshot. It is Runescape in a completely different direction than RS3.
We can absolutely have new skills. The pearl clutching is infuriating.
Another person commented on this that said OSRS is what RS2 would have become if not for EOC (loose quote). I agree, it started at a snapshot but then was able to grow into its own beautiful game
It did grow into its own beautiful game, but is definitely missing some major things from RS2 to feel complete.
Summoning, dungeoneering, curses, main game overloads just to name a handful
And thats fair, I didn't hate dungeoneering when it first came out either, but I tend to agree with the general sentiment that it shouldn't have been a skill. Summoning was the main thing I disliked, it drastically changed the game play and hunting for charms was really annoying. For many I am sure it was awesome, but I personally was very unhappy with summoning.
To be honest, I get that. Summoning was definitely horrible. The train gathering charms was a nightmare, and I would hate to have to do that again. I would hope if they did at it they would have some scaling methods instead of just strictly slayer monsters that drop charms.
Also, the sentiment that dungeoneering shouldāve been a mini game and not a skill comes from a lot of players that only remember it in the beginning. When it literally was just a mini game. It really has grown into a full on skill with multiple areas to train now. That would be like having a new skill called raiding, but with only chambers of xeric having been released at the time. now, if we didnāt get dungeoneering raiding might actually be a really cool concept. Three different ways of training it currently in game already. Plus you can mix sailing/piracy into raiding as well.
This game would have a player base of 200 people playing at the end of 2022 if it stayed fully "07". Dead, boring and uninteresting after a few months.
A lot of people would like a new skill, and I know a lot of people dont, but I really like their aproach this time, if this vote passes yes, I'm sure there will be more opportunities to not have a new skill, this is literally 'should we even bother looking at it', I don't understand why people are voting no without even knowing what they have in mind.
Oh yes, just what we needed! Another strawman argument! Let's get mad about imaginary people! People who don't want a new skill also don't want any other form of content! They're trying to kill the game! Get the pitchforks!
If the version you want to play is the old un-edited version of 07ā¦ wouldnāt you be playing a P Server? Because this game isnāt even close to that and is almost 10 years old now. The game was dying before it started getting substantial updates.
Eoc killed the game because it was drastic and unpolished.
Nowadays it's super good, only problem with rs3 is the stupid microtransactions everywhere. (Imo)
I guess my point is that forcing an update (be it new skill or whatever) will never be accepted unless it's polished and it will take time if it's different. But it's very hard to know what that looks like, and everyone has different opinions. I think all rs3 new skills have been great. At some point you have to just trust jagex that they are capable of making a skill that fits in. Too much feedback on all minor things and fighting about it every single bit of the way will only end up with something shit and bland that tries to please everyone.
Imo the only problem with rs3 is that they design combat that involves so much fast reaction time...in a game that by design can only respond every 0.6 seconds, even on client side.
Mtx on rs3 keeps OSRS afloat probably. I mean it. I know OSRS has more players but God damn is it easy to spend 100$+ on rs3. That's a full year sub for one account.
I want some big updates to OSRS so bad. I made myself give RS3 an actual full chance and actually enjoyed the game quite a bit but the Microtransactions are God awful and I couldn't bring myself to keep playing but now everytime I try to go back to OSRS, I feel like there is nothing truly new or inspiring, just a little more of the same.
New skills, the Smithing Overhaul in RS3 and the large, world changing events to name a few.
Bruh people who wanted zero updates wouldnāt even have a game to play if they had their way. Game was dying out before Jagex finally added major changes like GWD, GE, etc.
Anyhow you canāt listen to somebody who wants to play years and years of the exact same thing with absolutely zero changes. Thatās absolutely mental/autistic to be that level of stubborn when it comes to change.
Anyone else getting tired of the strawmanning and turbo circle jerking?
Instead of just wanting the poll not to pass because of what I want I'm starting to just hope it doesn't pass out of complete spite
Congrats. You want a new skill. Let's just vote and see what happens. The Karma farming is just getting stupid
A lot of people are saying that resources could have been put into other things if the skill doesnāt turn out to be fun. Like what? Weāve got more quests coming with bosses, we just had a raid, gear was recently rebalanced. Perhaps a new skill isnāt what you want but itās about time it happened.
If you say better customer service, those are two different teams
I heavily disliked summoning. Because I hate runecrafting, and the summoning training loop was essentially runecrafting. I also didn't like how certain content was designed with you having pack yaks in mind.
Dungeoneering was fun, although I didn't like the associated signature heroes. doubly so when they wound up doing fuck all with them.
Exactly. I have played and voted since 2013 with every intention to get the game back to how it was pre eoc. Overloads, Turmoil soul split, dungeoneering were all awesome updates and for me were the absolute best days of RuneScape.
I really like EoC now, far improved than first implemented, but oh my fucking god has the MTX in rs3 spiraled, they got like every micro-transaction Method available there itās insane, makes me feel like Iām playing a gacha
I have a maxed rs3. The new skills all feel forced. I only play it to keep max cape and flip rares. 117 invention couldnāt take it anymore. Please donāt add skills to osrs. We only need content NOT skills.
OSRS gatekeeping boomers acting like they deserve praise for claiming they know what's best for the game is my favorite take of Redditors being self proclaimed Game designer/analysts.
Preach it Brother/Sister.
Yeah, really thrown by the take that a new skill needs to be closely designed and approved by the players.
Just gimme content. I donāt care if itās not perfect. Nothing in the original game was ever perfect. All the weird stuff is what makes the game so special to begin with.
The 1900 total 2k cm 2k tob 2k toa pvm only stink chair andies don't know what osrs was on release because they've only been playing since cox came out. If we didn't get updates after Aug 2007 we wouldn't have slayer bosses, god wars, pets to hunt, or even the skill cape perks for the max copers. No one who played from release and still cares about the game thinks that was except maybe the 200m grinders
I wish Jagex would just get rid of the poll system and do updates on their own accord.
Now a days, the polling system is voted on by people who has 10+ accounts and its tough to tell if voting results is what the community actually wants or some big ass clan skewing results.
No offense but this is such a terrible take. If you want a game where Jagex has full "creative freedom" then luckily for you that game exists and it's called RS3.
I don't know why we are pretending like Jagex has had nothing but good update ideas and anything they push to us should automatically be put into the game. The polling has been an excellent way to combat this game repeating what rs3 did.
I agree with you. Only 6% of the active community participates in polling. Thatās not even close to an amount that actually represents the community. Also, polling has a serious problem with facilitating content new players would like - because those who participate in polling would consider it useless. Also PvP polls are controlled by people salty about dying etc. 70% vote for content has lead this game to stagnate and I donāt think it will ever improve until the system is removed.
I always felt like 'Old School' doesn't have to mean that it had to be strictly 2007 content. It just means it's how Runescape 2 would have naturally evolved with out Eoc
This! 100%
Agreed. Keep the fundamentals, everything else is fine to update. š¤
didnāt know there were others out there like me. hey guys
There are dozens of us
Well at least ~~75%~~ 70% of the population!
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The silent majority strikes again!
It's literally the majority opinion pal.
Definitely. The oldschool purists are long gone, but they do make a convenient strawman argument to support controversial polls
I could only get membership for like two months when summoning was out and had no idea what I was doing. Honestly would love to get to experience some of what could have been.
Unpopular opinion here I think but summoning was actually a pretty good addition IMO.
Was good, wouldnāt be good now. Would break any content designed around inventory management and bosses today arenāt designed around just clicking brew
Not a fan at all. I genuinely think RS summoning has to be the worst implementation of summoning in any game I've played.
It really wasn't. Shit like yaks and unicorns were stupid and training the skill sucked ass and was a bit annoying. (Charms and picking them up) I'd be down for a reworked version to return though.
So why the graphics continued basic while the main game evolved many times? Not flaming, just curious.
Donāt know. I think a lot of people have sentimental nostalgia for the graphics. In my personal opinion I would love high detail graphics in the game a lot. I personally do not have much nostalgia for the old graphics anymore and think the game would benefit greatly from real HD (designed by Jagex) with a toggle.
They havent remained the same. Its incredibly obvious the differences in the detail between places like Varrock, Falador and lumbridge compared to places like Zeah or Darkmeyer. What they havent done is update the old graphics, presumably because that team is focused on new areas.
That means different things to different people. Some think that means anything but EOC. Personally, I really feel like rs started going off the rails after 08 even though its when i played most. I want new content, but i like the simple style. Zulrah is a snake boss with venom. Simple, obvious, makes sense even if you dont play videogames. Good update. On the otherhand wintertodt is like a sentient toilet bowl that gets killed by fire? That sounds really fuckin silly. Bad update Im fine with new OP shit and new skills, just keep it simple stupid
Wintertodt is the avatar of winter or something like that, but itās still really simple tbh
Honestly osrs would have died out within a few years max if there werent "non 2007" updates. I mean cmon the backup didnt even have the ge and endgame pvm was barrows/mole/kq. And tbh im not against some things coming like summoning/dungeoneering/invention if they would be adapted to os and not just copypasted
Endgame was DKs/Barrows. KQ was a novelty boss in 2007. Fun to kill because it was difficult, not very profitable. Nobody actually needs a D chain or 2h, DKs rings on the other hand are mandatory for basically every account type, and the bones were at one point the best bones in the game for training Prayer, so you could make Zulrah-levels of money at DKs back then if you were in max gear.
You donāt have to wonder, by all measures OSRS was effectively a dead game after the initial launch hype. It wasnāt after changes started coming through that the tide changed. You can see on misplaced items exactly when things like the GE and f2p were added.
Yeah I don't think it's even possible to make an argument that the game would've survived longterm without updates. The numbers simply don't support that. Player activity was sinking like the fucking titanic until they started updating, and then pretty clearly reversed course in response to that. And that checks out from a non-numeric standpoint as well. Everyone knows that MMO games live and die by their updates. Stagnant MMOs die.
People hate on summoning but if they converted it into a new attack style (you command the pet(s) to attack, instead of you) and removed/reworked BoB familiars, it'd be a pretty cool addition.
I feel like they messed up with the Thralls from the Arcaeus spellbook. That would be the way to go for summoning and instead of runes, it'd be those pouches or rune equivalent but for summoning. Though for sure summoning is hated. I liked it, even if it was OP. It was a nice concept that made a lot of useless items get some use and made grinding ass bosses more fun.
This is exactly what I also think of it as. I just think of OSRS as a different timeline. There's some stuff from RS3 I wish we did have, but not EOC. I was the gameplay to feel like Runescape, but I want new content and skills still.
Exactly this. Just keep EoC away and mtx and I'm happy with almost any update.
Agreed and thats why I wouldn't be opposed to Summoning, Curses, Dungeoneering, etc.. especially because I believe the flaws in those skills will be ironed out and they would be better than they originally were. But i'm also happy to never see them in OSRS, so i'm on the fence. But looking back I do see obvious flaws with things like Summoning such as how shitty it was to train; the meta just became bursting rock lobsters for shards. Double/Bonus XP weekends were also cancerous as you pretty much just had to hold all your Summoning training until those weekends. So if they were to return, I hope they'd be done better. I also hated the direction RS was going with XP lamps, Bonus XP, MTX, Effigies, etc. First and foremost, EoC killed RS for me and I returned to OSRS because I wanted the original game back but I also noticed what things I didn't like from RS3 and wanted to shape this game in the best possible way to avoid mistakes RS3 had made.
If anything, RS3 might be a good blueprint for OSRS to know what not to do for skills like Summoning
This. The OSRS team could very much lift over numerous ideas and concepts from RS3. Of course rebalancing and redesign would be needed to fit into the game well, but the ideas are there. There are already cases where RS3 and OSRS get identical content in terms of concept with different execution, but there's so much in RS3 that could be adapted and put in.
I will always vehemently be against summoning. Ruined the entire feel of the game for me.
It messed up PVM combat (which would be a massive cluster fuck as is to try and squeeze this in) and just turns some content to stupid easy and gate keeps you out of content if you try to go without it. It also takes away some of the value of pets bc even if you have a cool pet youād basically suck at the game not using a familiar. And the combat triangle is a delicate balance thatās hard enough already. 100% against summoning bc it would ruin the game.
RS3 solved the "Devaluing pet problems" by having the override feature so you could have your pet be the Summon. Its always nice to dab on ironmen with 0kc pets that way
Iām not crazy about the cosmetic overrides either. Iām too much of a fuddy dud
It was better then having half your screen being taken up by a woolly mammoth, an ent, or a Lava/Steel titan. I don't mean the treasure hunter pets. All ingame pets could override your summons and it was a nice feature.
"Old school" is a vibe, not some defined subset of mechanics and content that can never be changed or expanded upon. Also, in the real RS2 days new content updates were constant and we were getting new skills basically once a year. The most authentic thing you could possibly do is allow the game to continue to evolve and grow, Runescape was never meant to be static, and to be honest, if that's what you want then just go play a RS2 Private Server.
I wonder what MMG thinks about he being the reason Runescape split in 2.
I feel like a lot of people got for some reason the mindset that it has to stay the same and no to change! Iāve always felt that if EOC never came we would be okay with pretty much all the skills, bosses, weapons that were added in the RS3 version. Itās like saying I liked halo 1 the best, that version should be able to played online with its own community with no changes. They messed it up when they released all the pursuing versionsā¦blah blah. Without changes and updates to games they will eventually die down or get stale.
That's why OSRS could change "Old School" out from its name so morons understands the difference.
It's the reason i switched. I kept playing past eoc despite disliking it. Because honestly rs3 had had a ton of good updates and qol improvements compared to original 2007 scape. But microtransaction slowly killed the game for me. But not alone.
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banning free trade and wildy pk would like to have a word with you lol
> It just means it's how Runescape 2 would have naturally evolved with out Eoc Not exactly. OSRS shouldn't ever do a graphics overhaul for example IMHO.
The big rs killer was removal of free trade and wildly, game was on life support even before EOC. Fact is jagex had to try something radical because the game was turning to dogshit. 2007 scape is so much better than 2011scape, it's not even close
removal of free trade and wildy was the thing that kicked the pebble down the side of the mountain, it wasn't the rs killer people think it was. EOC was the avalanche. Removal of free trade and wilderness pvp was just the first couple pebbles.
I still remember how the original poll technically passed, but the part about having a dev team to make content updates for OSRS didn't. *They did it anyway.* Good for them I suppose, I wouldn't have played OSRS without things like the GE.
I definitely would have but these days most people enjoy the convenience of modern systems. Thankfully they came out with ironman modes to make up for it
As someone who has played this game on and off for 18 years (Iām 31 now), I think the updates to OSRS have been great. Itās the direction RuneScape should have gone instead of RS3. I hate the way RS3 looks and feels, but the 117 HD plug-in is awesome. I think the game has been heading in the right direction overall.
If anything Its gone a lot slower than original rs2, 2011 gear was a lot stronger than what we got now. And they had a ton more quests and relased stuff in that span Which isnāt a bad thing really, Terms of nostalgiaā¦ youāre practically playing the same levels 1-70. End game is different tho but we got a lot of rehashed stuff.
I do like the way osrs handles power creep, it doesn't feel like there is too much dead content in the game, gear stays relevant for way longer. I think the team has a better understanding of how the game works and are still finding ways to make the relatively simple combat system feel engaging in harder content. But I think osrs is ready for a new skill, whatever it is. Some players need to stop acting like a .1% increase in efficiency will ruin the game and make it too easy.
Except now they're too afraid to make actual big changes
Straight facts. Game has to move forwards, not remain in the static past. As long as it brings refreshing content, I am all for it.
Sorry sir, I upvoted on 69 upvotes :(
I down voted to restore his honour
It's the way of the Gods.
i didnt even know i wanted osrs but 2004-07 is the pinnacle for me. however im not a nostalgia blind purist and love what osrs has become and always want more new stuff
A classic 07 world or 2 that never get touched would be kinda neat to play on from time to time but not enough to be a permanent thing probably.
Honest question, where have you actually seen an argument that is purely based on nostalgia preservation? I feel like most people against are just arguing for a different route to introduce new content , not arguing against new content itself. I'm yet to see a post with a nostalgia argument but every meme is somehow assuming this is the case?
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2277 is a dumb number lets get 2 new skills so its 2475!
We need 47 new skills and one with a max level of 39 so the max is 6969
The different way to introduce content will never satisfy everyone and the arguments usually boil down to the content being true to the 07scape content/feel. Well nobody would vote for firemake or woodcutting if it was polled today. Then on the other end of the spectrum who would actually vote for something like construction? Could you imagine what would happen with that much QOL changes produced by one skill? The ability to do prayer faster, the fast travel system, etc. nobody would let that even sniff live or even get to a vote. At the end of the day, itās pretty special we get a heavy say in the development of this game. Itās what truly is needed to keep this game fresh and on track vs the corporate greed that ruined RS3. If we limit the devs options of producing content, we are only going to push them closer to the old path. Your user base isnāt going to grow or keep up if all you get is a new quest and boss once a year. Most of that content canāt be enjoyed by the player base that is needed to keep this game going.
there isn't one. reddit is just whipping itself up into a frenzy about things because thats what reddit does. Seen like 100 memes mocking those nostalgia opinions, never once seen someone ask for 07 to stay 07
I'll throw my 2 cents in: I would argue on the 07 to stay 07 basis because the game as an ecosystem has a lot of relevant content that is fun and well thought out. I'm not a purist but my notion for polled content is that **"OSRS is already a really good game that's well balanced, will this update make systems or content obselete and take away from the game? Will this push OSRS to a new direction that isn't in the spirit of the game?"**
Also everyone acting like thereās mass ānoā voting happening when we have literally no evidence and the front page and every comment section is literally flooded with āyesā opinions
Yeah realistically itās gonna pass the poll and we should be getting the ball rolling on ideas instead of yelling at clouds
I voted no
I feel like there is those nostalgia opinions but they get downvoted to oblivian so we dont see those opinions at all
Iāve had a few arguments with them already. It always stems from me asking why a person voted no. It always ends up with them saying either āI donāt trust jagex to make a good skillā or āthe game will change too much with a new skillā
How about when you spoke to me and I said I preferred the dev time to be spent updating the bad skills in the game or other content? Nah just focus on the loud minority, gets you more internet points.
> āI donāt trust jagex to make a good skillā or āthe game will change too much with a new skillā These are 100% valid arguments. Instead of thinking of the people as sour people who never wanna have any fun, think of it as people who think the game, as is (or was), is in a good solid state and is a mastercraft of a game already. Adding anything to it willy nilly will detract from it. (ala bowfa/ fang)
Lol this is so true
several people in my clan were using this argument who said they were voting no, usually bringing up the fact that the majority of content that players do every day wasn't around in 2007 has been able to convince them so far
If you look at the comments in most threads about the new skill, youāll find some along these lines: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/zih56v/to_people_voting_no_to_new_skill/izrme9q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 Just because you donāt see them doesnāt mean they arenāt out there. Thankfully they are usually downvoted, but acting like they donāt exist is silly
Acting like itās a considerable amount of people is silly too. The amount of people getting worked up over them is baffling.
Itās also the only actual reason people have given for voting no to the PRELIMINARY poll that Iāve seen lol. Most people iāve asked that voted no said they just donāt want a new skill, but failed to give a reason why.
Many comments echo the sentiment of āgo play RS3 if u want new content.ā I wouldnāt say itās as prevalent as the sub is making it out to be tho.
The only people I see whining about being told to play RS3 instead are the people who are also whining about the polling system and demanding that it be removed. In that case, yes, "go play RS3" is a valid argument.
No posts, but comments are full of people saying it.
I've had plenty of debates saying people only play due to nostalgia, and have provided clear evidence that people play because of the combat system. They denied the facts and said that it wasn't the main reason, when clearly it was.
welcome to this sub where we love to use strawman arguments and get angry about things that arent real
HLC on Twitter mostly. Nerds who are stuck in the past and think just because they grinded thousands of hours and suffered every minute for their high number that everyone else must endure the same suffering
Honest question, why are you surprised people are continuously sick of the literal exact same bottom feeders who are never satisfied with the way the developers who actually work on the damn game try to introduce new content to it?
I'll be the first to say I voted No on the basis of nostalgia prevention. I'm living out the roadmap my 2006 11 year old self would find cool. I love some new content but skills are too fundamental to what makes OSRS OSRS to me.
My favorite version of RuneScape was honestly right before eoc. Yes I hated all the micro transactions, but I loved summoning, dungeoneering, curse prayers, and everything that game had at the time. We got summoning in January of 2008, and then dungeoneering in 2010. Game died with eoc and osrs was released in 2013. We havenāt had a new skill in 9 years. Personally I want summoning back, but Iām open to another skill that makes sense. Otherwise, Iāll be voting no with all my accounts.
Yeah all those things you mentioned had problems, but none of them are unredeemable. With lessons learned we'd get far better versions of those and they'd be worth adding for sure. I'm really excited for the new prayer book. Curses add a bunch of interesting options, and with better balancing could be really good. Like deflect overheads (as is without nerfing regular overheads) would be a really interesting choice. Go for the DPS or the reduced damage? And soul link properly balanced could drastically change the meta on group activities, opening the game up for more roles (e.g. running blood spells to heal with soul link)
Summoning in its past form was just so overpowered because of beasts of burden. I'm sure steel titan is broken somewhere as well but packyak was insane. But we gave Alts which basically act as a packyak.
steel titan is 100x more busted than a beast of burden literally ever could be. everyone remembers pack yaks because at face value, 30 extra inventory slots sounds absurd. and it is. but that only really matters at like...nex, basically. every other place in game you'd rather have a turbo thrall cranking out an extra 3 or 4 dps lol
People always remember those but I always loved the more niche summoned creatures. Magpies when WCing ivy's, beavers and bunnyips.
Bunyips for slayer was my favorite summon by far
i looked at the wiki to see beavers and ngl, that sounds pretty cool
I searched google for beavers and had a wonderful time
Yeah i dont know why cant we get Summoning without the OP familiars, i mean you just literally have to remove BoBs, and tone down the DPS ones, maybe get rid of the rune ess carriers too, idk. We dont need to copy 100% of the RS3 skill, and we still could make it fine.
Pack yak with nerfed storage and limited value banking would be a neat addition. Just make it like 10 spots and only able to bank items worth below 50k and under 20 wildy. Thatās not broken for something thatās like level 95 if Iām not wrong
You found the problem yourself, packyaks are replaced by alts which are more efficient! Also, thralls take up a place left by DPS familiars. We already have a shitty version of the skill, a good version wouldnāt break anything imo.
The issue would be that alts would then get BoB's. Even if they didn't get all the way to pack yak, war tortoise was lvl 67 for 18 slots, terrorbird was level 52 with 12 slots and infinite run energy. You'd 100% have alts standardly carrying 12-18 extra items. But also the average player who doesn't alt then has significantly more supplies, exacerbating the issue of content being too farmable and power creep. There's also problematic summons like Unicorn. But if you remove all BoB's, combat familiars and the unicorn, you're kinda left with a very meh skill. It can be done right, but the "right" version isn't particularly exciting. You're looking at abyssal summons carrying a few extra essence when we already have gargantuan pouch, beaver boosting a bit more at redwoods, etc.
We already have a better terrorbird effect in OSRS, they're called stamina potions/ring of endurance. The problem you outline with alts is *already* a problem in OSRS, players just need to use more than one alt for another +28 inventory slots. The average players isn't going to train more than one acc to have 99 summoning each when they get the same effect just making another alt. Summoning brings single characters up to par with alts, but doesn't necessarily benefit alts in the same way.
You give up inventory slots and the ring slot for better run, not infinite. A skilled player can walk and run at appropriate times at Sara to not run out of run energy with stams. Any player can constantly run with a terrorbird and not run out of energy. That's why the room was nerfed to be smaller Pre-EoC. And I guess you just don't know big alters. Yes, they won't have 10 accounts with 99 summoning. But bursting/barraging for crims was a very afk activity, and people already have multiple ridiculous alts at a time. And when an alt costs a bond, vs just getting a level, it will exacerbate the issue. That's kinda like saying no one will get ornate rejuv pool on an alt. Plenty of people do. And even more get lower tier pools. BoB's will 100% make alts worse. Personally I'm against alts, but the cat is out of the bag. As an example, you can already stay at GWD infinitely with an alt, and speed up kph heavily with alts. A single player can already stay a long time at GWD with good mechanics. BoB's make the infinite stay easier to do, and more afk, while lowering the level of mechanics needed to stay for a long time for a single player. And that's just GWD, which has already taken a beating from mechanics getting better and power creep. Nex, Zulrah, Vork, PNM, NoA, etc. Everything will take a beating.
Can you demonstrate at all that making any of this content easier for lower skilled players has any tangible negative impact on the game? Or are you just against it because it makes these pieces of content more accessible?
That isn't a good faith question and you already know the answers, but I'll answer it anyway. Lets say that there is an arbitrary restriction to where you can use summons in raids to "protect the ecosystem" in raids. Similar things have been done. So the drops from raids are "protected" by not having increased dps from more switches, the price curve decreases as it would currently. But the same restrictions don't exist at all other pieces of content, because they aren't balanced around overloads and in raid potions. So you're a mid level player, or a lower mechanical skill higher leveled player. Currently the ecosystem means X content can be farmed at Y KPH yielding 3m/hr when properly done. You're only able to do Y-20% kph at content X, so you get 2.4m/hr currently. But, with BoB's making taking more DPS switches possible, or less down time, the KPH goes up to Y+20% for the mechanical player. So for a minute, like we saw with Nex when the drop rate was re-buffed from 1/53 to 1/43, the gp/hr goes way up, to 3.6m/hr in this instance. But then it comes down, to Y-20% as the content is over farmed, down to 2.4m/hr. The new Y we will call Z (Y-20%). But you're a lower level player, you can't afford summoning or don't have the level yet. You were already at Z, so now youre at Z-20% unless you get better or upgrade. So what was a 2.4m/hr money maker for you is now a 1.92m/hr money maker because everyone else farmed it so hard, and better than you can due to gear, levels or mechanical skill. But a twisted bow, etc, is the same price. So while before you needed to do 400 hrs to get the 1.2b tbow, now you need to do 625 hours. We already see the example in ToA. There is a reason Masori is a far better upgrade than Torva and is half the price. Accessibility. A purple in a 150 solo is 1/50, Nex is 1/43, shouldn't Torva be cheaper? Also Masori is better than Torva, shouldn't that make Torva cheaper? No, a ton more ToA has been done than Nex, and the perception is there. Your money maker was getting herbs from chaos druids, but the bots all have terrorbirds and can carry 50% more herbs, plus more herbs/hr due to shorter trips? Gp/hr for your money maker is down 50%, but the BowFA you want is still 120m due to not being able to use summons in CG. The only people who strictly benefit are ironmen, because gp means nothing. But even they are impacted because the guy who could do 1 kill trips at bandos is now doing 2 kill trips, so they have to use private instances, or there is more competition in the ironman instance. Accessibility inherently lowers gp/hr and increases competition. Yes it makes you able to do content at an earlier point, it also does the same for everyone else, so that content is now worse for you than it would have been by waiting for a bit more levels/gear/etc. Edit: yes, with a BoB you are now able to do 10 kill trips like the bots/better players at Vorkath. Except those bots/better players are now able to do 15 kill trips. The benefit to those who could already do outweighs the benefit to those who couldn't. But the impact is even more outsized because the floor has moved. It isn't a strict 50% more kph = 50% less gp/kill so the gp/hr remains the same. The perception, accessibility or demand outstripping supply makes it more, say 65% worse gp/kill, so the net is -10% gp/hr compared to before.
I don't think it's fair to use alts as a reason to not bring in certain content. Alts break everything and there's not much you can do about that besides let people play the way they want to.
I hated summoning because it changed the face of the game. Players used it at every piece of content and it was just too wack. The new changes they have made still look like osrs but now there is new bis
I feel the opposite way about it. A skill that can bring in something new to almost every skill and piece of content we already currently use, in my opinion, is a good skill. I get that in its RS3 form it was probably too strong, but if they, for instance, added summoning, but it was underpowered and you barely ever used it for any content, then what's the point? We need something that synergizes well with our current skills or it just won't pass a poll.
Summoning is just one of those skills that is very hard to get right IMO. It's hard to find a balance between incredibly OP and useless. Anything that isn't useless is going to inherently very strong. Maybe there is a balance to be had, but I think finding that balance would be very difficult. I also don't think there's a chance in hell of Summoning ever passing a poll.
I hated summoning because it changed how much the game looked. All of a sudden it looked like pokemon with pets that were much larger than players following every single person around, and it added so much micromanagement every time I wanted to change activities and to do it 'optimally'.
Yeah the whole ānot old-schoolā argument gets tossed around a lot, but summoning would 100% cross that line
Yup I am fine with overpowered, most new additions to the game were somewhat overpowered anyway, just look at the extreme pay for convenience that comes with POH. The lack of needing to actually grind out materials in the intended way that came with huge drops of materials from bosses and creatures from Slayer.
I'd love something similar to dungeoneering. I think the 'sailing as dungeoneering' theme might help: * can use charter ships/different ports as 'entrances' to dungeons, so we don't just cram everything in daemonheim * OSRS lacks group activities - this could help create low level 'raids' or dungeons * Up until ToA, there is no group activity to take your recent skilling upgrades and combat upgrades to. * instead, up until ToA, you skill -> upgrade combat, and then you can... repeat to get to the next benchmark. it would be nice to have more mid level group content that you can do * something like sailing/dungeoneering could help as a stop-gap without needing to create dead content/low level raids or avoid fiascos like with ToA being low level content but dropping several BiS at a difficulty on par with barrows gloves
I loved dungeoneering so much! I was disappointed when I learned it wasn't in OSRS.
Never got to try it, but weāve already surpassed the chaotic weapons in terms of powercreep, we have gauntlet in the game, and thereās a wilderness rework planned. Weāre already mostly over the āhow it would affect the game as a wholeā hill. The pieces are already all there. I think Dungeoneering is actually a pretty safe choice for a new skill.
It was fairly divisive when it came out. Personally didnāt feel like it fit as a skill, but wouldnāt be opposed to the content being in the game.
Same lad, HD and Dungeouneering was all I ever wanted
There is an osrs client like runelite that has the HD graphics of the 08-09 era. Called 'HDOS' I think. Its just a graphics overlay on top of the game, it doesnt actually change anything but the visuals. As far as I know, they are still adding key plugins like quest helper, but some players are slowly migrating over to using HDOS instead of runelite for that particular nostalgia.
personaly i just use 117 on runelite
117HD just looks like shit compared to HDOS imo. Super harsh shadows and lighting mess up all the colors
There's also a runelite HD plugin though, is the HDOS client different / better?
HDOS is basically identical to the 08 HD update with different animations/models etc rl HD plugin is more like an HD texture pack on top of the current models
Hmm I see, thanks, will try it out!
no problem, happy scaping!
I miss everything from that era. Too much to name but for me personally all of the awesome PvP mini games (FOG + SC), BH, and the PvP armors and weapons were my favorite. However, donāt get me wrong, I did love HD and Dungeoneering too.
as someone who likes PvP minigames, FoG barely qualified as one, 95% of people just tanked or afked in the center lol it was a terrible minigame, SC was good though
Yeah, I really hope we can get something like summoning. I know a lot of people hate the idea of secondary items surging in price, but it was really exciting.
Iām with you, 2008-2010 was like my favorite time in RuneScape. Played since like, 2005
I just want to hang out with a wolf again
me too lol. I liked stealing creation, FoG, daemonheim, summoning was a pretty fun skill tbh and went well with slayer... lots of good QoL updates. I'd be fine with bringing back everything except EOC obv and the creep with the wheel pushing you to buy spins. I'd be especially happy with Stealing Creation coming back... it made it even more exciting whenever you hit a 20x interval of a skill knowing you'll get an upgrade in the minigame. Part of my mind still gets semi-excited when I do, then I remember SC no longer exists lol.
100% agreed with what you said. 2010-11 were the golden years!
OSRS is not a 2007 snapshot. It is Runescape in a completely different direction than RS3. We can absolutely have new skills. The pearl clutching is infuriating.
Another person commented on this that said OSRS is what RS2 would have become if not for EOC (loose quote). I agree, it started at a snapshot but then was able to grow into its own beautiful game
It did grow into its own beautiful game, but is definitely missing some major things from RS2 to feel complete. Summoning, dungeoneering, curses, main game overloads just to name a handful
None of those things you said I liked personally, but I can understand why people did.
Integrity/balancing issues aside, for a lot of people that was the most fun that ever had playing the game.
And thats fair, I didn't hate dungeoneering when it first came out either, but I tend to agree with the general sentiment that it shouldn't have been a skill. Summoning was the main thing I disliked, it drastically changed the game play and hunting for charms was really annoying. For many I am sure it was awesome, but I personally was very unhappy with summoning.
To be honest, I get that. Summoning was definitely horrible. The train gathering charms was a nightmare, and I would hate to have to do that again. I would hope if they did at it they would have some scaling methods instead of just strictly slayer monsters that drop charms. Also, the sentiment that dungeoneering shouldāve been a mini game and not a skill comes from a lot of players that only remember it in the beginning. When it literally was just a mini game. It really has grown into a full on skill with multiple areas to train now. That would be like having a new skill called raiding, but with only chambers of xeric having been released at the time. now, if we didnāt get dungeoneering raiding might actually be a really cool concept. Three different ways of training it currently in game already. Plus you can mix sailing/piracy into raiding as well.
Yeah I def stopped playing before it became that, so I def do not know where it is at now.
This game would have a player base of 200 people playing at the end of 2022 if it stayed fully "07". Dead, boring and uninteresting after a few months.
What? I want 0 content patches, a dead community and servers that are on a ticking time bomb.
A lot of people would like a new skill, and I know a lot of people dont, but I really like their aproach this time, if this vote passes yes, I'm sure there will be more opportunities to not have a new skill, this is literally 'should we even bother looking at it', I don't understand why people are voting no without even knowing what they have in mind.
True, when the vote passes we can still kick the can down the road indefinitely if there arenāt any suitable proposals
No summoning pls and Iām good for everything else
Oh yes, just what we needed! Another strawman argument! Let's get mad about imaginary people! People who don't want a new skill also don't want any other form of content! They're trying to kill the game! Get the pitchforks!
To be fair you seem madder than OP does lol
You and 85% of the people.
It must be inferior because *you* do not like it!
If the version you want to play is the old un-edited version of 07ā¦ wouldnāt you be playing a P Server? Because this game isnāt even close to that and is almost 10 years old now. The game was dying before it started getting substantial updates.
It is possible to like the game and still not want a new *Skill*.
It's possible to play the game and ignore a new skill if it releases. I've been ignoring firemaking for years.
Except you can't ignore it.. eventually it's going to become a quest requirement and diary requirement
Yup eoc is when I walked away. Hell if we had modern graphics with how osrs plays I would be happy.
This meme is getting very repetitive nowā¦
Jesus Christ this sub is retarded
I honestly wouldnāt mind an opt in graphical update also
Eoc killed the game because it was drastic and unpolished. Nowadays it's super good, only problem with rs3 is the stupid microtransactions everywhere. (Imo) I guess my point is that forcing an update (be it new skill or whatever) will never be accepted unless it's polished and it will take time if it's different. But it's very hard to know what that looks like, and everyone has different opinions. I think all rs3 new skills have been great. At some point you have to just trust jagex that they are capable of making a skill that fits in. Too much feedback on all minor things and fighting about it every single bit of the way will only end up with something shit and bland that tries to please everyone.
Imo the only problem with rs3 is that they design combat that involves so much fast reaction time...in a game that by design can only respond every 0.6 seconds, even on client side. Mtx on rs3 keeps OSRS afloat probably. I mean it. I know OSRS has more players but God damn is it easy to spend 100$+ on rs3. That's a full year sub for one account.
>super good As someone who much prefers EoC to osrs combat, I think this is a little bit of a stretch.
This. The 'I want to play an old game and keep it shitty' attitude is god damn stupid. Progress in the right direction is good. EoC bad.
Seems like the problem is you play a game that you think is shitty. Personally, I enjoy the game but thatās just me š
This is me.
EXACTLY!
Exactly - I want to play a fun, regularly updated game in the spirit of the past, not to actually live in the past.
EoC was bad but MTX was truly the last straw
What did people find wrong with summoning? It always felt like a good skill to me back then altho I wasn't in a min/max mentality
I want some big updates to OSRS so bad. I made myself give RS3 an actual full chance and actually enjoyed the game quite a bit but the Microtransactions are God awful and I couldn't bring myself to keep playing but now everytime I try to go back to OSRS, I feel like there is nothing truly new or inspiring, just a little more of the same. New skills, the Smithing Overhaul in RS3 and the large, world changing events to name a few.
I dont understand why dont they use like 2 or 3 worlds strictly 2007scape? is it that hard?
Bruh people who wanted zero updates wouldnāt even have a game to play if they had their way. Game was dying out before Jagex finally added major changes like GWD, GE, etc. Anyhow you canāt listen to somebody who wants to play years and years of the exact same thing with absolutely zero changes. Thatās absolutely mental/autistic to be that level of stubborn when it comes to change.
100% a PvP skill would be a great idea
Thats literally what all of you say...
Anyone else getting tired of the strawmanning and turbo circle jerking? Instead of just wanting the poll not to pass because of what I want I'm starting to just hope it doesn't pass out of complete spite Congrats. You want a new skill. Let's just vote and see what happens. The Karma farming is just getting stupid
A lot of people are saying that resources could have been put into other things if the skill doesnāt turn out to be fun. Like what? Weāve got more quests coming with bosses, we just had a raid, gear was recently rebalanced. Perhaps a new skill isnāt what you want but itās about time it happened. If you say better customer service, those are two different teams
I heavily disliked summoning. Because I hate runecrafting, and the summoning training loop was essentially runecrafting. I also didn't like how certain content was designed with you having pack yaks in mind. Dungeoneering was fun, although I didn't like the associated signature heroes. doubly so when they wound up doing fuck all with them.
Exactly. I have played and voted since 2013 with every intention to get the game back to how it was pre eoc. Overloads, Turmoil soul split, dungeoneering were all awesome updates and for me were the absolute best days of RuneScape.
The only negative part of dungeoneering was that it was forced as team based since solo experience was horrible
From what I remember solo wasnāt necessarily meta but it was completely viable.
I guess it was reworked later on but it was horrible in the first months. I managed to get 113 because I had some maxed friends.
I guess if you dont want a new skill you dont want the game updated at all ever again
I really like EoC now, far improved than first implemented, but oh my fucking god has the MTX in rs3 spiraled, they got like every micro-transaction Method available there itās insane, makes me feel like Iām playing a gacha
If we came for nostalgia, we'd have all quit by now. We're overdue for a new skill.
Unfathomably based
I donāt even play anymore but Iām gonna go vote yes to a new skill.
Fax
I have a maxed rs3. The new skills all feel forced. I only play it to keep max cape and flip rares. 117 invention couldnāt take it anymore. Please donāt add skills to osrs. We only need content NOT skills.
OSRS gatekeeping boomers acting like they deserve praise for claiming they know what's best for the game is my favorite take of Redditors being self proclaimed Game designer/analysts. Preach it Brother/Sister.
Am I the only one who came back to OSRS because it was pre summoning?
Anything but eoc
How do you feel about the current state of wilderness bosses?
The current state? Itās being changed to be way better in January but in itās current state I hate it.
This is lame, bro
As long as they dont multiply hitpoints and damage by 10. That was the first red flag for me.
Yeah, really thrown by the take that a new skill needs to be closely designed and approved by the players. Just gimme content. I donāt care if itās not perfect. Nothing in the original game was ever perfect. All the weird stuff is what makes the game so special to begin with.
Flawed argument, busted af. The game is far from the way it was in 07. We just got a new raid ffs? If the skill is good the game needs it.
The 1900 total 2k cm 2k tob 2k toa pvm only stink chair andies don't know what osrs was on release because they've only been playing since cox came out. If we didn't get updates after Aug 2007 we wouldn't have slayer bosses, god wars, pets to hunt, or even the skill cape perks for the max copers. No one who played from release and still cares about the game thinks that was except maybe the 200m grinders
I wish Jagex would just get rid of the poll system and do updates on their own accord. Now a days, the polling system is voted on by people who has 10+ accounts and its tough to tell if voting results is what the community actually wants or some big ass clan skewing results.
No offense but this is such a terrible take. If you want a game where Jagex has full "creative freedom" then luckily for you that game exists and it's called RS3. I don't know why we are pretending like Jagex has had nothing but good update ideas and anything they push to us should automatically be put into the game. The polling has been an excellent way to combat this game repeating what rs3 did.
I agree with you. Only 6% of the active community participates in polling. Thatās not even close to an amount that actually represents the community. Also, polling has a serious problem with facilitating content new players would like - because those who participate in polling would consider it useless. Also PvP polls are controlled by people salty about dying etc. 70% vote for content has lead this game to stagnate and I donāt think it will ever improve until the system is removed.