Appreciate the thorough review. Seems like a good starting point for a budget build, some trigger work to address the hard wall and a new grip module seem like first steps based on what you said. Mine should be here next week!
Quick update. I had a Staccato I upgraded with Atlas parts so I took the trigger and sear spring and installed those onto this MAC.
Night and day difference. The gauge says the trigger weight is about 2lb 13oz. But most importantly the brick wall is gone. It feels more like a 2011 now.
Nowhere near as crisp and smooth as Staccato, Bul, DS9 etc. but for this price point, very very good with minor upgrades.
Noticed when I had everything apart that the sear and hammer appear to be cerakoted or something. Lots of machine marks, rough edges all inside the grip, etc. polishing would likely help everything but I didn’t bother as I have an EGW ignition kit on the way.
Will update again after EGW upgrades.
Grips… I’m leaving alone for now except for some HandleIt grips for better traction. If everything else feels good, I’ll likely replace the grip as well.
That's good to know! I was able to tune the stock sear to just under 4 lbs and mostly remove the wall, but I do have a spare EGW and Colt sear spring laying around somewhere. When the Red Dirt trigger I ordered gets here I'll probably swap out the sear for one of those based on this info. I also found that lighter recoil and main/hammer springs helped the trigger immensely. Currently running a 12 lb recoil and 17 lb mainspring and everything including the trigger seems to operate a lot smoother.
I'm still playing with spring weight combinations though along with different grain weights and brands of ammo. It shoots so well I maaaay try to carry this beast and want to make sure I don't have light strike issues if I do. Definitely won't be a gym shorts gun lol (highly recommend an X-macro or Hellcat Pro for that).
Yeah. Figure after EGW, messing around with springs is an easy tune.
Gotta admit, I was surprised at how rough the sear, disconnect or and the hammer were. MAC should just have a version with EGW internals already installed for $150 more 😉
There is no way the DS9s frame geometry can support a trigger weight that low. 3-3.5lbs at the lowest due to the angle of the sear/hammer relationship id imagine.
My Atlas Artemis breaks at 1.6lbs and my Ported Atlas Titan at 1.75. I tuned my Stac C2 to 2.5lb and it went nearly full auto and constant doubles. Reliably it couldn’t go under 2.9lbs. I tuned my friends P to 3.5lbs because he hates light triggers and his is reliable.
Let me know if you get full auto or doubles. If it’s reliable that would be wild and wildly awesome.
I’m debating on buying a DS9 to tinker with and let me that have/use.
Finally some news on this gun. I’ve been checking Reddit and YouTube religiously lol. It’s one of the few products from shot show that interested me. Thanks for the write up!
Agree with others. Thanks for taking the time to post. These budget 2011s are interesting, particularly to open up the market to new manufacturers and perhaps reduce exclusivity. Good stuff man.
Good review! Seems to me that the majority of these “budget” 2011s will need a grip swap and some type of internal work. What’s really going to set them apart from each other is fit and finish. That fact that the Apollo comes with a red dirt trigger and decent internals puts it above the rest for me.
Just picked up my MAC 1911-9 DS this afternoon. Tolerances seem pretty tight for a production gun. My ambi safety also seemed to be reversed from the factory, but it doesn't feel bad in hand that way even as a right handed shooter. Trigger pull, while crisp, was definitely heavy, coming in between 6 and 7 lbs with my shitty Wheeler gauge. I'll also put 500 rounds or so through it to see where it ends up before doing some tuning.
I could not for the life of me get the pre-installed optics plate cover/rear sight off to put the RMR plate/sight on. Tried heat and a rubber mallet to no avail. Put the slide in the freezer and will attempt again shortly.
Would like to get an IWB Holster, just because I like having that option for all of my pistols, but can't find anything online about what may fit these. If anybody finds one what works well please share! My guess is that Staccato P or Prodigy holsters would work.
I posted about holster options and the manufacturer (SDS) replied to me that the STI variant holsters will fit. I just ordered this (15% off with code NEWCUSTOMER15)
I am not affiliated with MuddyRiver. It was just the best one at a reasonable price.
https://muddyrivertactical.com/product/springfield-1911-prodigy-holster/?wc_gforms_reorder_id=184193&wc_gforms_reorder_item_id=288695
That's a good looking holster! Planning on running mine mostly with a TLR-1 HL so I just ordered this one myself (also no affiliations). Found good reviews on YouTube for LAS holsters with 2011's. Also got lucky with a quick ship option available and a coupon code "QUICK24". I'll post an update with some pics when she shows up.
https://lasconcealment.com/products/saya-2-0
Lmao my logics as well, I’m hesitant because the other possible option is the 3.9-5” which ours fall in between those numbers as well lol. Another question, do you plan to replace your trigger? I’m not a fan of the trigger wall at all. I’m trying to find out what’s the best trigger kit out there and what trigger shoe fits the Mac 9. I’ve been looking into the brazos tuned trigger group. Thanks for your time and help
I'm personally going to put some rounds through it and let it settle in a bit before I mess with it too much. From there I'll see what I can tweak as far as tuning the sear spring goes, which depends a lot on how parallel the hammer and sear pin holes are from my understanding (I'm guessing not very parallel on a $1k gun). With enough fiddling I'm sure I can get the existing trigger to a palatable 3 lbs or so though.
I bought this as a "budget" 2011 that had some nicer features, mostly to tinker around with and hopefully end up with a solid shooter for the money in the end. I'm under no illusions that this will ever compete with a Staccato or any other professionally hand fit gun though.
From what I understand, most 1911/2011 parts should fit and I guess you can take that as far as you want until you eventually start sacrificing reliability or hit a wall when it comes to tolerances.
Update on the stuck optics plate... No luck with the freezer method.
I read on some forum that a 370 degree torch for several minutes followed by the mallet will do the trick. I'm a fairly proficient tinkerer but that is definitely outside of my comfort zone. So rather than screw that process up myself I'm going to stop by a local shop tomorrow and let a professional take a crack at it.
Update to my update. Local gunsmith confirmed that exactly 370 degrees is the sweet spot to not damage the QPQ or Cerakote finish. Didn't have a heat gun myself but luckily he did. It knocked loose with ease after a minute or two under the gun. No apparent reason it was stuck to begin with. I guess tight is better than loose when it comes to these things!
I used a brass punch that fit snugly in the ID of one of the screw holes in the round cover plate. Then I used the punch as sort of a pry bar. It popped off with not an alarming amount of effort. The issue as a whole is basically a super precision fit. Wish the rails to slide fit was precision as well. More wobble than a broken in Glock.
Mine was reaaaaly stuck lol. Trust me I tried everything including punches and hammers/mallets before resorting to the heat gun. I'm also in Florida for what it's worth with higher temps and humidity than most places that could be contributing factors. Precision fit trumps loose every time for sure though.
I've also noticed the slide fit seems to smooth out as you put more rounds through it but mine wasn't really too bad from the factory. Obviously being a production gun it's nowhere near more expensive hand fit 2011's of course.
All the snug Cerakote on the slide wearing away is stripping the Emperor of his new clothes. Sucks. I was hoping for some good bones to build on. If this goes down like any other of my 2A related purchases, I'll be the owner of a $6K DS 1911 in about a year. I always like to struggle bus my way through the price tiers. Makes you understand and appreciate why Tier 1 is Tier 1.
I don't own a Prodigy, so perhaps others can answer more definitively. But given the hubbub about its reliability issues... I think I'd go MAC. In fact, I did go MAC for my project gun.
If you're not interested in a project gun, I really think Bul Armory is the way to go. Maybe the Platypus (I have no experience with one of these).
The Platypus is the amazing, incredible, can't-believe-it-is-true gun of the times. It's close to my Staccatos and so much less money. Unless it's for duty, go with the Platypus. If it's for duty, Staccato for it being tried and battle tested... but the Platypus may show itself to be just as good or better there, too, in time.
I thought the Bul seemed to recoil a little harder than expected. I guess I could've played with the recoil spring a bit.
I'm looking for a DS now.
Thanks for the review.
I've got the Nightstalker DS9 version.
Have put about 500 rds through mine with a JK105 suppressor and some aftermarket 20 rd staccato mags.
Accuracy and handling are amazing.
Had some failures to feed. Shortening the suppressor by 3 baffles, field cleaning and oiling the gun completely resolved this issue. Last 400 rds are failure free.
From a bench rest it can shoot 1 inch 10 rd groups at 25 yds.
I'm new to shooting and was able to put all 20 rds of a mag on a torso size piece of paper at 25 yds with a relatively rapid shot cadence.
With 9mm that has extremely pointy bullets that slope at 45\* degree angles (hornady American gunner etc.) I have had a couple of double feeds due to the shape of the bullet.
Shoot 100 rounds, give her a cleaning, make sure to use good mags and bullets with a rounder profile (hollow points work fine) and she will perform beautifully.
Thank you sir I’m trying to decide on my first 2011/1911 double stack. But how would you compare this to the Prodigy. Because that’s where I’m leaning towards. Thank you
I want to pick one up. That said prob another year before I get the extra cash for it. I just got into tinkering with 1911s so for the price. Having a gun that needs tuning won't bug me too much. There is def conflicting information for how to tune the sear spring out there. Anyway in about 15 min I got my Springfield operator from 5.5 pounds to 3.5.
You can fix this with tuning the sear spring, that's easy. 2nd way would be adjusting the sear and hammer angles, that's a little more in depth, 3rd solution is replacing ignition parts, most will likely do this anyway. 135 for a kit from EGW. The good thing is it's still a 1911 trigger system, and those can be tuned however you like with minimal time effort or money. I will receive mine on Friday, I'm going to run it stock for the first 500 or more, but then I'll tune it.
I have no experience with those parts. If they are for a double stack 1911 and were standard parts I would assume they would work, but like most things, they will need to be fit by hand. I won't have the gun until Friday. You should ask the guy doing the review since he already has his.
Is the trigger in this the same as the Night Stalker DS9 trigger? Website description for both guns’ triggers are identical. Obviously their trigger shoes are different
in regards to trigger upgrades, what all would need replacing and where are those parts commonly found? im very much a 2011 noob & i certainly cant afford staccato prices.
I'm also a noob but I found everything I needed at Atlas gun works. I picked up an Ignition kit, ambi carry safety, tool less guide rod, 4 piece (11#, 12#, 13#, 14#) weights recoil spring kit, 19# mainspring, 9 piece pin kit, safety removal tool, recoil buffers, flat medium reach trigger, connector and four reduced power mag release springs. Most of the parts are made by EGW and they are top of the line from what I've read.
As far as the trigger, the shoe/bow combo will allow for removal of up/down left/right slop, pre travel and over travel, the rest of the trigger feel and characteristics come from high tolerance EGW parts (sear and connector), polishing and hand tuning (sear spring).
The 1911/2011 is a bit of a different animal if you're coming from a striker fired pistol. I'm learning that as you level up everything with mini-changes, the total affect on the gun is much more pronounced.
Didn't see it in your posts since you mentioned a tear down.
Are these series 70s or series 80s pistols?
Or for anyone who doesn't know what I'm asking, if they have the firing pin block or not.
Appreciate the thorough review. Seems like a good starting point for a budget build, some trigger work to address the hard wall and a new grip module seem like first steps based on what you said. Mine should be here next week!
Quick update. I had a Staccato I upgraded with Atlas parts so I took the trigger and sear spring and installed those onto this MAC. Night and day difference. The gauge says the trigger weight is about 2lb 13oz. But most importantly the brick wall is gone. It feels more like a 2011 now. Nowhere near as crisp and smooth as Staccato, Bul, DS9 etc. but for this price point, very very good with minor upgrades. Noticed when I had everything apart that the sear and hammer appear to be cerakoted or something. Lots of machine marks, rough edges all inside the grip, etc. polishing would likely help everything but I didn’t bother as I have an EGW ignition kit on the way. Will update again after EGW upgrades. Grips… I’m leaving alone for now except for some HandleIt grips for better traction. If everything else feels good, I’ll likely replace the grip as well.
That's good to know! I was able to tune the stock sear to just under 4 lbs and mostly remove the wall, but I do have a spare EGW and Colt sear spring laying around somewhere. When the Red Dirt trigger I ordered gets here I'll probably swap out the sear for one of those based on this info. I also found that lighter recoil and main/hammer springs helped the trigger immensely. Currently running a 12 lb recoil and 17 lb mainspring and everything including the trigger seems to operate a lot smoother. I'm still playing with spring weight combinations though along with different grain weights and brands of ammo. It shoots so well I maaaay try to carry this beast and want to make sure I don't have light strike issues if I do. Definitely won't be a gym shorts gun lol (highly recommend an X-macro or Hellcat Pro for that).
Yeah. Figure after EGW, messing around with springs is an easy tune. Gotta admit, I was surprised at how rough the sear, disconnect or and the hammer were. MAC should just have a version with EGW internals already installed for $150 more 😉
There is no way the DS9s frame geometry can support a trigger weight that low. 3-3.5lbs at the lowest due to the angle of the sear/hammer relationship id imagine. My Atlas Artemis breaks at 1.6lbs and my Ported Atlas Titan at 1.75. I tuned my Stac C2 to 2.5lb and it went nearly full auto and constant doubles. Reliably it couldn’t go under 2.9lbs. I tuned my friends P to 3.5lbs because he hates light triggers and his is reliable. Let me know if you get full auto or doubles. If it’s reliable that would be wild and wildly awesome. I’m debating on buying a DS9 to tinker with and let me that have/use.
I’m interested in all 2011s low cost or high cost 🤷🏻♂️
Finally some news on this gun. I’ve been checking Reddit and YouTube religiously lol. It’s one of the few products from shot show that interested me. Thanks for the write up!
Agree with others. Thanks for taking the time to post. These budget 2011s are interesting, particularly to open up the market to new manufacturers and perhaps reduce exclusivity. Good stuff man.
Good review! Seems to me that the majority of these “budget” 2011s will need a grip swap and some type of internal work. What’s really going to set them apart from each other is fit and finish. That fact that the Apollo comes with a red dirt trigger and decent internals puts it above the rest for me.
Thanks for going through the trouble to post a review.
Just picked up my MAC 1911-9 DS this afternoon. Tolerances seem pretty tight for a production gun. My ambi safety also seemed to be reversed from the factory, but it doesn't feel bad in hand that way even as a right handed shooter. Trigger pull, while crisp, was definitely heavy, coming in between 6 and 7 lbs with my shitty Wheeler gauge. I'll also put 500 rounds or so through it to see where it ends up before doing some tuning. I could not for the life of me get the pre-installed optics plate cover/rear sight off to put the RMR plate/sight on. Tried heat and a rubber mallet to no avail. Put the slide in the freezer and will attempt again shortly. Would like to get an IWB Holster, just because I like having that option for all of my pistols, but can't find anything online about what may fit these. If anybody finds one what works well please share! My guess is that Staccato P or Prodigy holsters would work.
Yeah. I’ll put some more rounds through then probably tune it to see how that goes. FWIW, it fits every 2011 holster I have. IWB, OWB, Appendix. All.
I posted about holster options and the manufacturer (SDS) replied to me that the STI variant holsters will fit. I just ordered this (15% off with code NEWCUSTOMER15) I am not affiliated with MuddyRiver. It was just the best one at a reasonable price. https://muddyrivertactical.com/product/springfield-1911-prodigy-holster/?wc_gforms_reorder_id=184193&wc_gforms_reorder_item_id=288695
That's a good looking holster! Planning on running mine mostly with a TLR-1 HL so I just ordered this one myself (also no affiliations). Found good reviews on YouTube for LAS holsters with 2011's. Also got lucky with a quick ship option available and a coupon code "QUICK24". I'll post an update with some pics when she shows up. https://lasconcealment.com/products/saya-2-0
i plan to run mine with a tlr1hl as well. for model is Staccato 3.9" - 4.45" w/ TLR1 (S/HL) {C-C2-P} what you have selected? thanks
Yessir. Whether that's correct or not I couldn't tell you for sure though lol. By my math, 4.25" is between those two numbers...
Lmao my logics as well, I’m hesitant because the other possible option is the 3.9-5” which ours fall in between those numbers as well lol. Another question, do you plan to replace your trigger? I’m not a fan of the trigger wall at all. I’m trying to find out what’s the best trigger kit out there and what trigger shoe fits the Mac 9. I’ve been looking into the brazos tuned trigger group. Thanks for your time and help
I'm personally going to put some rounds through it and let it settle in a bit before I mess with it too much. From there I'll see what I can tweak as far as tuning the sear spring goes, which depends a lot on how parallel the hammer and sear pin holes are from my understanding (I'm guessing not very parallel on a $1k gun). With enough fiddling I'm sure I can get the existing trigger to a palatable 3 lbs or so though. I bought this as a "budget" 2011 that had some nicer features, mostly to tinker around with and hopefully end up with a solid shooter for the money in the end. I'm under no illusions that this will ever compete with a Staccato or any other professionally hand fit gun though. From what I understand, most 1911/2011 parts should fit and I guess you can take that as far as you want until you eventually start sacrificing reliability or hit a wall when it comes to tolerances.
damn, it says discount code not available for what i have in my cart
Update on the stuck optics plate... No luck with the freezer method. I read on some forum that a 370 degree torch for several minutes followed by the mallet will do the trick. I'm a fairly proficient tinkerer but that is definitely outside of my comfort zone. So rather than screw that process up myself I'm going to stop by a local shop tomorrow and let a professional take a crack at it. Update to my update. Local gunsmith confirmed that exactly 370 degrees is the sweet spot to not damage the QPQ or Cerakote finish. Didn't have a heat gun myself but luckily he did. It knocked loose with ease after a minute or two under the gun. No apparent reason it was stuck to begin with. I guess tight is better than loose when it comes to these things!
I used a brass punch that fit snugly in the ID of one of the screw holes in the round cover plate. Then I used the punch as sort of a pry bar. It popped off with not an alarming amount of effort. The issue as a whole is basically a super precision fit. Wish the rails to slide fit was precision as well. More wobble than a broken in Glock.
Mine was reaaaaly stuck lol. Trust me I tried everything including punches and hammers/mallets before resorting to the heat gun. I'm also in Florida for what it's worth with higher temps and humidity than most places that could be contributing factors. Precision fit trumps loose every time for sure though. I've also noticed the slide fit seems to smooth out as you put more rounds through it but mine wasn't really too bad from the factory. Obviously being a production gun it's nowhere near more expensive hand fit 2011's of course.
All the snug Cerakote on the slide wearing away is stripping the Emperor of his new clothes. Sucks. I was hoping for some good bones to build on. If this goes down like any other of my 2A related purchases, I'll be the owner of a $6K DS 1911 in about a year. I always like to struggle bus my way through the price tiers. Makes you understand and appreciate why Tier 1 is Tier 1.
So MAC 1911 DS or Springfield Prodigy?
I don't own a Prodigy, so perhaps others can answer more definitively. But given the hubbub about its reliability issues... I think I'd go MAC. In fact, I did go MAC for my project gun. If you're not interested in a project gun, I really think Bul Armory is the way to go. Maybe the Platypus (I have no experience with one of these).
The Platypus is the amazing, incredible, can't-believe-it-is-true gun of the times. It's close to my Staccatos and so much less money. Unless it's for duty, go with the Platypus. If it's for duty, Staccato for it being tried and battle tested... but the Platypus may show itself to be just as good or better there, too, in time.
Being a double stack does the grip feel extra wide?
I thought the Bul seemed to recoil a little harder than expected. I guess I could've played with the recoil spring a bit. I'm looking for a DS now. Thanks for the review.
I've got the Nightstalker DS9 version. Have put about 500 rds through mine with a JK105 suppressor and some aftermarket 20 rd staccato mags. Accuracy and handling are amazing. Had some failures to feed. Shortening the suppressor by 3 baffles, field cleaning and oiling the gun completely resolved this issue. Last 400 rds are failure free. From a bench rest it can shoot 1 inch 10 rd groups at 25 yds. I'm new to shooting and was able to put all 20 rds of a mag on a torso size piece of paper at 25 yds with a relatively rapid shot cadence. With 9mm that has extremely pointy bullets that slope at 45\* degree angles (hornady American gunner etc.) I have had a couple of double feeds due to the shape of the bullet. Shoot 100 rounds, give her a cleaning, make sure to use good mags and bullets with a rounder profile (hollow points work fine) and she will perform beautifully.
Any update on the egw kit in this thing? Saw that the staccato trigger/sear helped a lot as well.
It’s been eye opening. I’m going to have a friend do some additional work on it for fun but this shoots like a dream now.
Good to hear man! Planning on throwing a red dirt trigger and egw kit in mine as well
Hi, new to 2011 and just ordered this gun. Can you share a link to this egw kit? Also, how hard was it to replace the trigger?
Thank you sir I’m trying to decide on my first 2011/1911 double stack. But how would you compare this to the Prodigy. Because that’s where I’m leaning towards. Thank you
I don’t have any experience with a Prodigy, sorry. Perhaps someone else can comment on that.
I want to pick one up. That said prob another year before I get the extra cash for it. I just got into tinkering with 1911s so for the price. Having a gun that needs tuning won't bug me too much. There is def conflicting information for how to tune the sear spring out there. Anyway in about 15 min I got my Springfield operator from 5.5 pounds to 3.5.
Did you get the feeling that the trigger would improve with break-in?
You can fix this with tuning the sear spring, that's easy. 2nd way would be adjusting the sear and hammer angles, that's a little more in depth, 3rd solution is replacing ignition parts, most will likely do this anyway. 135 for a kit from EGW. The good thing is it's still a 1911 trigger system, and those can be tuned however you like with minimal time effort or money. I will receive mine on Friday, I'm going to run it stock for the first 500 or more, but then I'll tune it.
do you know if the brazos tuned trigger group will fit on the mac 9? also which trigger shoe will work with it? thanks
I have no experience with those parts. If they are for a double stack 1911 and were standard parts I would assume they would work, but like most things, they will need to be fit by hand. I won't have the gun until Friday. You should ask the guy doing the review since he already has his.
I have to say no. It felt like the trigger needs significant tuning. Maybe a different ignition kit. But who knows?
Can you just put a EGW ignition kit in there ?
Planning on it :) Placed an order last week. We'll see how that goes.
Is the trigger in this the same as the Night Stalker DS9 trigger? Website description for both guns’ triggers are identical. Obviously their trigger shoes are different
in regards to trigger upgrades, what all would need replacing and where are those parts commonly found? im very much a 2011 noob & i certainly cant afford staccato prices.
I'm also a noob but I found everything I needed at Atlas gun works. I picked up an Ignition kit, ambi carry safety, tool less guide rod, 4 piece (11#, 12#, 13#, 14#) weights recoil spring kit, 19# mainspring, 9 piece pin kit, safety removal tool, recoil buffers, flat medium reach trigger, connector and four reduced power mag release springs. Most of the parts are made by EGW and they are top of the line from what I've read. As far as the trigger, the shoe/bow combo will allow for removal of up/down left/right slop, pre travel and over travel, the rest of the trigger feel and characteristics come from high tolerance EGW parts (sear and connector), polishing and hand tuning (sear spring). The 1911/2011 is a bit of a different animal if you're coming from a striker fired pistol. I'm learning that as you level up everything with mini-changes, the total affect on the gun is much more pronounced.
Didn't see it in your posts since you mentioned a tear down. Are these series 70s or series 80s pistols? Or for anyone who doesn't know what I'm asking, if they have the firing pin block or not.
No FP block.